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Bristol City v Boro
 

Bristol City v Boro

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Pedro de Espana
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Boro are being architects of their own downfall this afternoon. Poor final third decisions and passes, with us still getting caught on the break, so KH did nothing about that at half time.

And just as I post this Bristol score an easy goal from a corner, unlike all the ones we have had.


   
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It doesn't look as this is going to happen for Boro despite everything going right in the lunchtime games.  A mountain to climb here now in the last 20 minutes. 


   
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Bangura, Browne & Sène on for Targett, Conway & Nypan (!!!) in the 73rd minute.  


   
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Posted by: @stircrazy

Bangura, Browne & Sène on for Targett, Conway & Nypan (!!!) in the 73rd minute.  

Burgzorg on for Gilbert in the 84th minute.

 


   
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...but it increasingly sounds as though Bristol City will prove to be a mountain too far. Perhaps realism will make an appearance? It is possible to have hope and for that hope to be realistic rather than euphoric. 


   
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Posted by: @stircrazy

Second goal for the Robins scored by the sub in the 62nd minute!  🙁   The bubble is bursting... 

And burst it has:  2-0!  🙁

70 dangerous attacks + 71% possession + 27 shots on goal, 2 on target (12/9 for Bristol) = no end product... 

 


   
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And so it proves. Bristol 2-0 Boro at FT.


   
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The second half was a disappointment but in truth we should have been home and dry at half time.


   
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Martin Bellamy
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We had to lose sometime I guess. At least I got to watch the game and to be fair we could have had a different result if Whitaker’s shot had gone in off the post. 

Losing McGree could be a big blow - let’s hope his injury isn’t too bad. 


   
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Sadly my pre match fears have come to fruition and KH's 100% record has gone against one of our bogey teams who just can't seem to stop winning against us despite the number of chances we created.

Hopefully this was just a bad day at the office that can be quickly put behind us but it won't be easy against another bogey side in Blackburn Rovers.

I just hope that this is not a case of the end of the new manager bounce/purple patch and we end up reverting to our norm of dominating possession but failing to score and we become consistently inconsistent again.  Only time will tell.

If Whittaker, Strelec and Conway are not performing, we look very lightweight as far as substitutes who can make an impact and that is an issue which perhaps needs to be addressed next month. 😎

This post was modified 1 week ago 2 times by K P in Spain

Pedro de Espana
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@martin-bellamy       pleased to were able to watch the game, if a little disappointing.


   
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Pedro de Espana
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@k-p-in-spain    I have posted the self same issue KP.

Our first team on their day are good enough to maintain the momentum. However, the substitutes, which generally are the forwards bought in the summer plus one or two others, do not adequately fill the departing position in the team.

I did worry about the Bristol City “bogey” and of course as you said, Blackburn, two teams in back to back games. 

What disappointed me today, was despite having the majority of possession, 28 shots but only 3 on target and also something that definitely needs improving, our corners. 13 today and never looked like scoring, they have 3 and score.

I also thought one of our reliable players in Targett was very poor with his passing, but was not alone, especially in the second half. 

Mr Hellberg also got his McGree substitution wrong in IMO. Nypan has not really produced as yet, but he is young and the Championship is a very tough league. I also thought that KH did nothing to “tweak” getting caught out on the counter, something we have struggled with all season to be honest.

But we knew we would get beaten sometime. The test is now to bounce back at home in what is a more important game now. 

This post was modified 1 week ago by Pedro de Espana

Philip of Huddersfield
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Today’s game proved, yet again, that massive possession counts for nothing unless you create and take goal scoring opportunities .And if you give away 2 sloppy goals then you lose the game. 
Clearly,  Bristol came up with a way of playing against Boro which was successful to win the game. This will be noted by other teams who are likely to copy them and so when this happens Boro must find a different way of playing to win games.

It was sad to see that McGree  had to go off injured. Hopefully he will be back soon as he is very influential for the team.

I feel that the team still doesn’t have two players up front who can play as a pair and this needs rectifying asap for Boro to continue to be successful.

The real test for the coach starts now but all is not gloom as the season is only approaching the half way stage.

Philip of Huddersfield 👍🤔😁

 

 


 Si
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Some early insights before I settle down for what's likely to be an evening of theatre writing.

Usually, the term I use to describe my mood after a bubble-bursting, long-winning-run-ending defeat is "disappointed, but not dismayed". Yet I'm finding myself more "dismayed". Why?

Because we've been here before. Too many times. So it's customary now that, when it's going well, we'll start to be concerned that it's going too well, and then the good old Typical Boro thing of appearing to be poised for something glorious before success becoming painfully elusive dawns upon us.

Does today's defeat have comparable antecedents? The answer is, alas, yes.

Earlier this week I was contemplating reaction, for starters, to the 2-0 defeat at Watford near the end of 2014-15. No matter how much of a setback it was, we could console ourselves - back in August '14, we'd have taken being two points off the top with five games to go, and the teams around us had also been struggling to cement themselves in the promotion places.

I now find myself remembering the 2-0 loss at home to Arsenal in '96, an Arsenal who were in that transitional period between Brucie and the Wengerlution yet handling it very, very well indeed. We, with all our excitement and foreign stars, were sixth; they, without a permanent manager (yet) and just two new signings in John Lukic and (a then unknown) Patrick Vieira, were seventh. Our records were almost identical, each of us three points off the top. In front of a packed Riverside it would have been a great opportunity to push on. But, two defensive clangers, two instances of Ravanelli hitting the woodwork and Arsenal seeing out the game later, that feeling of "that wasn't supposed to happen" was cast over us. They finished third in the end. We didn't win again in the league until Boxing Day. At the time, though, it could be excused - Arsenal were a genuinely good team and although we didn't know it, they'd win the Double in less than two years. The 4-0 mauling at Southampton, though... (But that's for another time.) 

Last but not least? The 1-0 loss against today's opposition at today's venue, nearly ten years ago. The one with Bristol City past in the Boro team (Albert Adomah) and Boro future in the Bristol City team (Aden Flint, Luke Ayling). Aden Flint contributes to a last minute goal - the kind of set-pieces that often tend to catch us out - and we're derailed. The run of eight wins in nine without one concession is over. Again, "that wasn't supposed to happen". But... their goal came in the very last minute after we'd had chances to win, a loss or concession had to happen sooner or later, and we were still six points clear of third with a game in hand. So it wasn't the end of the world... right?

This brings me to today. True, it's only one game, but a concern isn't so much the result itself or even the performance. It's the context. Other teams have also been "feeling the heat" in the winter. Therefore, like early 2016, we're in a position where it seems we can "afford" to take a hit - right now, we're still five points clear of our nearest promotion rival. We were similarly four points clear at the top after that wonderful West Brom win* - three games, no wins and one goal followed before a quick brace of victories which pretty much turned out to be RE's parting gift to Boro.

Defeats like these are hardly disastrous. At the very least, they need not be. But they are damaging to momentum and I'd suggest that they're a bigger test for a manager and a team accustomed to winning than any of the wins that came before. Today is therefore the biggest test of KH as a coach and a big test to Boro - can we, after raising expectations, properly overcome another one of those "that wasn't in the script" moments?

We can say, "we still have space", "we still have time" and "it's only one game". And we don't need to dwell on the defeat by any means. But it can't simply be brushed over either. It's said you learn more in defeat, so let's hope this happens here.

*And it must be said that, as commendable as our steady build-up for our goals was, it only took a cross and a towering header to halve the deficit and turn a comfortable score nervy in no time. That should have been a warning.


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Posted by: @philip-of-huddersfield

Today’s game proved, yet again, that massive possession counts for nothing unless you create and take goal scoring opportunities .And if you give away 2 sloppy goals then you lose the game. 
Clearly,  Bristol came up with a way of playing against Boro which was successful to win the game. This will be noted by other teams who are likely to copy them and so when this happens Boro must find a different way of playing to win games.

 

 

I’m not so sure about that, Phillip.

We hit the post when it should have been buried, created numerous other chances in the first half where we either failed to make the final pass or failed to convert. Their first goal changed the game as it played into their defend-and-counter gameplan but it came as the result of a goalkeeping error.

If that’s the blueprint to beat us then I think we’ll be absolutely fine.

 


Clive Hurren
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@andy-r 

Agreed, Andy. I didn’t see the game, but on Tees it sounded as if we missed a string of very presentable chances. Déjà vu all over again? 

But for me, this is very much a case of ‘Don’t panic! Don’t panic!’ We’re a very good side and are much stronger than most teams in this league. Occasional defeats will happen, of course. But we still have a 5 point gap to third place. If we can quickly bounce back from this one, and I think we will, then everything will be back on track. 


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My it doesn’t take much for some Boro “fans” to start to turn, I wonder if Kim will get a smile to his face when he reads how the armchair managers point out where he went wrong with his substitutions, forget 4 wins on the spin, one defeat and the doubts will appear.

Come on BORO.


Philip of Huddersfield
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Thanks Andy and Clive.
The facts today tell us a lot about Boro - we  had 3 times more shots but fewer shots on target.  We lack an out and out goal scorer. Someone who is deadly in front of goal whereas we have Strelec and Conway who between them have about half a dozen goals as we approach  the half way stage of the season. That is not good enough. I can’t see Boro achieving promotion with with such a low total of goals as these two players have - Whittaker can’t do it all on his own.

i would be interested to know if any promoted team in the last few years achieved promotion with 2 central strikers who scored so few goals. The nearest may be Burnley who basically achieved promotion without conceding goals .

I also remember a few weeks ago Coventry  at the Riverside who were deadly in front of goal and  attacked so quickly and looked as though they could score at random.

Si is right , the real test for the new coach is now after a defeat.

Philip of Huddersfield 

🤔🤔🤔


Martin Bellamy
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I’m not sure we should try to learn too much from one defeat.

Exmil - I don’t see a massive change in our thoughts about KH after today’s game; fan’s are going to fan and inevitably believe that they know better than the manager. No one on here has been too critical so far, apart from a belief that the replacement for McGree was wrong and I wonder if, in retrospect, KH might agree. 

Si - I can see where you’re coming from and I’m in awe of your photographic recollection of games gone by, but I don’t think today should be looked at as a turning point. We’ll need to see more of KH’s Boro before we know where he’ll take us. Fortunately, we’ve got a home game coming up very quickly to allow us to get back on the horse. Unfortunately, given my results history, I’m the one writing the starter for it! 


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Posted by: @exmil

My it doesn’t take much for some Boro “fans” to start to turn, I wonder if Kim will get a smile to his face when he reads how the armchair managers point out where he went wrong with his substitutions, forget 4 wins on the spin, one defeat and the doubts will appear.

Come on BORO.

exmil:  I see no obvious evidence of a "turn" on the part of fans on here, more a philosophical acceptance that a defeat was bound to happen sooner or later & a fervent hope that KH will learn lessons from the assorted mistakes that contributed to the defeat & adapt accordingly in his preparations for future matches.   

 


Pedro de Espana
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@philip-of-huddersfield   And we have not kept a clean sheet since our one- nil win at Sheffield Wednesday at the end of October. 

We need to score two goals at least to win, given that stat. That’s a big ask and puts more pressure on the defence. 

For all the good football in the build up play, I still think that the final third let us down somewhat.  I also thought tha Malcolm’s link to the Gazette’s player marks was quite justified.

For those that have not seen them and would like to comment.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/middlesbrough-player-ratings-vs-bristol-33095509


   
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The injury to McGree was a big turning point as he was finding some good positions and looking bright when on the ball; I feel if he had stayed on he would have created a chance from which we would have scored.

I felt that the match had shades of Carrickball, plenty of possession but lacking execution in the final third; whilst I am all for being on the front foot and getting the ball forward quickly we need to be a bit more organised when out of possession as we were far too open in the first half.

Other teams/managers will watch how BC set up to counter us and are likely to play in a similar fashion and KH will have to find ways to adapt and the players will need to execute by making the right decisions and being more clinical; it’s not about how many shots we had it’s about goals and conversion rates.

A disappointing but not unsurprising result, the test is now how KH and the team respond; if McGree is not fit then Browne needs to start. 😎


Clive Hurren
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@philip-of-huddersfield, Pedro 

I agree that we need to be more clinical and that both Conway’s and Strelec’s returns could be better. But only Coventry, Ipswich, Hull and Southampton have scored more than we have and the latter two have conceded many more than our 24. I don’t think there’s a lot wrong, tbh. If we can turn on the style in most games as we did against Hull, Charlton and QPR, then we’ll be fine. 

Anyway, we now face two potentially winnable home games, followed by a trip to Derby, which is also eminently winnable, though the Rams will no doubt park the bus and try to hit us on the break, as Bristol City did. I’m sure KH will approach all 3 games with his usual meticulous preparation and that his training sessions will focus on what he has identified as our weaknesses in yesterday’s defeat. 


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Kim Hellberg's view on Boro's Man City loanee Sverre Nypan

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Sverre Nypan goes up for a header in Middlesbrough's defeat to Bristol City <i>(Image: Tom Banks)</i>

Sverre Nypan goes up for a header in Middlesbrough's defeat to Bristol City (Image: Tom Banks)
 
 
 
KIM HELLBERG remains confident Sverre Nypan can still be a big success at Middlesbrough despite the Manchester City loanee’s struggles to make an impact in the first half of the season.
 
 
Boro’s signing of Nypan on a season-long loan from the Etihad was hailed as a major coup in the summer, but the 19-year-old has only been handed three starts under first Rob Edwards and now Hellberg.
He came off the bench in the early stages of yesterday’s 2-0 defeat at Bristol City, replacing the injured Riley McGree, but was unable to seriously affect the game before he was also taken off with 16 minutes remaining.
 
There have been suggestions that his lack of game time on Teesside could result in his loan being cut short in January, with City potentially looking for alternative options for the second half of the season.
That is currently regarded as an unlikely scenario though, with Hellberg still convinced Nypan can be a success with Boro.
“Absolutely,” said the Boro boss, when asked whether he could see the teenager succeeding on Teesside. “He’s working very hard and he did some very, very good things here.
“It’s just to get that confidence up and I have to work with that. I have to help him with that. But when you look at him, how he plays, he will have a bright future.”
READ MORE:
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/25714690.kim-hellberg-provides-riley-mcgree-middlesbrough-injury-update/?ref=ed_direc t" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Middlesbrough injury hope after what Riley McGree told Kim Hellberg at half-time
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/25714489.bristol-city-2-middlesbrough-0-boro-beaten-ashton-gate/?ref=ed_direc t" target="_blank" rel="noopener">What went wrong as Kim Hellberg's winning start to life at Boro came to an end
Boro suffered their first defeat under Hellberg at Ashton Gate, but the Boro boss was still broadly satisfied with his side’s performance.
Nypan’s individual display summed up Boro’s collective efforts, with the youngster delivering the occasional moment of promise without ever being able to seriously impact the outcome of the game.
“I brought him on because he’s good in the pocket,” said Hellberg. “It was a football game that we were an offensive team, and he was prepared and worked in that position.
“I think he showed a lot of those things that are so good with him in terms of the mobility, in terms of working, in terms of quality driving the ball. So, he just needs a little bit of confidence and then he will go like this [motions up].”
There aren’t too many occasions when a substitute is substituted, but given how early Nypan came off the bench to replace McGree, Hellberg insists it would be wrong to read anything into his decision to take off the Norwegian for Alan Browne with 16 minutes left.
“That was not a big thing for me,” said Hellberg. “It was 61 minutes on the pitch, I think. So, it was not related to performance. If you pick a player [before] 40 minutes, I look at it as he started the game. That’s how I look at it.”

   
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@clive-hurren 

I agree with you 

I think KH made it pretty clear in his interviews yesterday that there's much more to be learned from a defeat than a victory. So if you need to have that defeat to kick-start that next phase of learning, why not have it where we usually lose anyway. From what we've seen from KH so far, he'll be all over the problem areas in forensic detail. He talks continually about solving problems, both by the coaches and the players. So I'm confident we'll see a resurgent performance on Boxing Day. 

 
I think the defeat also comes at a good time from the perspective of the recruitment process. An unbroken string of victories might have led to an unwarranted complacency about the gaps that still need filling. My top post-christmas present, would be an out and out winger.
 
The current situation is hardly tragic. In fact, it's rather amazing considering the mood in the summer.
 

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@peter-surtees 

Agreed.  We made enough chances to win the game yesterday and I’m sure Hellberg will be working on how to turn those chances into goals. So there is every reason to remain very positive about the season.  For me there are two threats.  First, a long absence for McGree who is a vital cog in this team.  Second, Ipswich Town who are starting to look ominous.


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Great analyses on here re- yesterday's game. Special plaudits to Bob for publicly querying the Nypan substitution as it happened rather than after the event. I suspect many of us felt it was a mistake, but you need some courage to risk getting it wrong as it happens and finishing up with a face covered in yolk. No disrespect to Nypan, either, in that judgment. He's a very talented kid, but he's far from home and the Championship bronco is a devil of a brute to ride. I agree with KH that he may well come good as the season progresses.

I agree too with Peter that yesterday clarified our recruitment needs for January, and that a pacy winger who can get round the back of defences should be a top priority. KH said that he had never managed a team before that had no effective wide forwards, and that the system he was compelled to play was something new and experimental for him. So all credit to him for that.

 

 

 

 


Martin Bellamy
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I can’t decide whether I’m confident that a new pacy winger will get the end result from his crosses that they deserve. I’m desperate for Conway and Strelec to score from open play - football’s a confidence game and, at the moment, neither of them have the swagger that a confident, competent striker displays. 

What’s the forum’s thoughts on Aidan Morris? Earlier in the season, I thought his pairing with HH in midfield was essential if we were going to be successful but now I’m not so sure - we seem to be more creative without him, but with less bite in the tackle. Should he slot straight back in when he’s fit? And if so, who should he replace? 

 


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@martin-bellamy.  He certainly has his attributes but I always felt that, at times, he tended to slow the game down and contributed to the slow build up play which was prevalent under MC and RE; he certainly deserves his place in the squad but for me Browne has a better all round game. 😎


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