@werdermouth - I absolutely agree. It's not a bit-part player wanting to leave, it's the central core around which the strategy for the season (and perhaps beyond) has been fixed. I was going to set up in this reply a scenario where we got to January and he asked SG for big money to buy the star player to see us over the line and, on that player signing the contract, THEN RE was contacted by a BIG club with a massive offer of a job with them. But I won't.
I realise this is going to be a weird weekend. Tomorrow's match might have a funny atmosphere.
Reading the comments I guess I’m in a very small minority again that isn’t at all bothered about Edwards leaving. I’d actually be disappointed if he didn’t at this stage.
He’s a charming bloke and made a flying start but I’m not fooled by what I’m seeing. The results have been far better than the performances in my opinion and I would fully expect that to return to the mean over the course of a season.
It’s a loss in terms of having to start again but I really don’t think we’re losing a top manager, nor one who would have led us to promotion. There simply isn’t enough goals in the way he sets us up and we don’t have the forwards that can make his systems work.
I want it to be confirmed. I want a good compensation package for the club and then I want us to go out and find a progressive head coach who can take this club to the next level.
Make that two of us.
I’m so grateful to be at this club it means so much to me. I’ve written to those travelling fans for supporting us and spending so much of their time and money they are the greatest.
i look around and think what a fabulous stadium filled with people who are genuine fans and I fist pump my appreciation of what I have when I was at the depths of despair after being sacked and I’m now on the way up again.
This job means so much to me and I’m grateful to work for an owner who gives me so much independence and lets me get on with the job and I’ll work every hour to ensure success for him and those glorious fans.
Oh I’ve heard the rumours as well that wolves want me as their manager. Surely they wouldn’t want me as a manager after leaving Forest Green and Watford at the drop of a hat they know I’m not reliable.
Oh there goes my hat again, see you my loyal fans, who knows when we will meet up again and just before I go it’s three fist pumps for you all !
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Lee Carsley next manager ????
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Some very interesting and meaningful comments in here over the last twelve hours, obviously lots feeling let down ( I do ) whilst some feeling it was something the majority of us would do given the finance and family situation ( I would ).
So on to our next coach it would seem, people saying Gibson has never poached another manager before, is that because of principle or because the compensation received from managers leaving has been needed, but maybe Gibson needs to consider poaching a manager for us to make that next step.
I like Nathan Jones, very much in Edwards mould, but like Edwards also has a track record of upping sticks when offered.
How about a punt on Dave Challinor, I mentioned him pre Edwards, lots of success in the lower leagues, knows the area, has got Stockport promoted and top of league one, wouldn't cost the earth and appears to be a very good man manager.
Yes you're right Andy, Edwards just needs to go now with Boro getting full compensation and move on - though the danger for the club is if they give him permission to speak to Wolves, he's finished with the supporters (if he isn't already) and if there's no agreement between Edwards and Wolves then it will be Boro left having to pay off his three-year contract as he won't be in breach if he was given permission to talk. It can only now be resolved by Edwards resigning and walking away to talk to Wolves - though Edwards will be unlikely to resign and risk his financial package until he has a new contract elsewhere - A very messy business...
Three of us.
Conflicted. On the one hand one doesn't want the distraction and the disruption that would be caused if a (very recently installed) manager who many thought had been doing well - look at the league table - should end up leaving the club. I think of the effect that would have on the players (or those who had taken on board his message/methods), the supporters and, in the final event, results.
On the other hand one equally doesn't want the manager to remain in post unless he feels committed to the job, the project. Who wants a half-hearted manager who showed lack of commitment? It would surely result in failure and great disappointment.
This is a lose-lose situation for a club and supporters who did nothing to deserve it.
I realise nothing stays the same, that marriages now do not necessarily last for life (44 years and counting, for me, and much the best thing I ever did in life, but not everyone has the same luck), and that the employment of modern football managers is often measured more in weeks and months than in years (Glasgow Rangers, Nottingham Forest, Spurs, Watford et al). But it is still very dispiriting if it happens to YOU.
You got married to a widely-admired partner. Set up house together, had a great honeymoon. Returned to work and, despite a couple of recent hic-coughs, that work seemed to be going well. Then just a few months or so afterwards, the new spouse's ex turns up at a party and asks to talk to your new spouse. You are not at all keen. You go to the kitchen for some drinks and then learn that friends of the ex have been in touch with your new spouse. No denials by the spouse, only evasions, although a couple of opportunities had been given clearly to evidence a lack of interest in reviving that old relationship... Distrust sets in... Very uncomfortable.
Obviously it can't go on. Meanwhile, whilst little (or is it nothing?) is said - I saw nothing on the club website when I went to sleep - we have a game to play in a matter of hours. What have the players been told? How is that going to influence their attitude to this afternoon's game? Aren't we told that confidence is vital, that stability and "small margins" count in football? The supporters will know nothing though the rumour mill will be operating at full thrust. Some of those rumours may be accurate but some may be massively wide of the mark. Who knows?
It all feels very weird this morning!
@werdermouth it is, for sure, a very messy business. However, how likely is it that RE's agent has not already spoken with Wolves and secured a mutual understanding of what is on offer and what will be acceptable to both parties (Wolves and RE). I dont think they would have approached Boro for permission to talk directly to him unless they had not already agreed with him indirectly through his agent (or perhaps his wife and daughter given they knew all about it) he had the job.
Perhaps Boro should sell the permission for Wolves to speak to RE for something like the value of his contract with us. Then, if it falls through and he doesn't leave we can sack him and we will have the funds in hand to pay him off. If he does leave to go to Wolves, then we also secure compensation for the disruption to our promotion campaign.
As usual, a number of great posts by werder, followed up by numerous others especially FD’s on “principles”
Good reply from Andy.
The difficult part as werder spelt out in his latest post, is getting Edwards to walk so that we can claim compensation. And that could take some days, although I am sure Edwards’ Agent will have the basis of a contract for him to probably accept.
Then also as werder said, and written by Craig Johns in his update post last night, Watling was an Edwards pick.
So this is not the end, just part way through a messy process. Then maybe hardest of all, getting a replacement Head Coach and possibly Staff.
Of course, it is now match day.
Has any one with a knowledgeable contact any insight on who is taking charge of the team team today?
I am sure Birmingham will have been delighted at the turn of affairs on Teesside and no doubt hoping to capitalise. However and despite the disruption brought upon the club, I am rather hoping this will inspire the players to a really strong performance. Wouldn't there be a kind of perverse satisfaction for Bob's Boro3 to show up this afternoon. The crowd will no doubt be energetically and noisily behind the team... our team, not his.
Thanks Pedro - I guess everyone at Boro knows what's gone on and the implications so have now gone full radio silence in order to tread carefully through the legal minefield of contract law and avoiding losing several millions on top of their head coach and possibly coaches. I just hope Gibson's stubbornness doesn't cloud his judgement in getting this matter resolved quickly.
If we see Craig Liddle take charge then we know we're in trouble...
Go on, go on, just walk awayGo on, go on, your choice is madeGo on, go on, and disappearGo on, go on away from here
The Cure, In Between Days
It has been really quiet - no news from Rockcliffe. I know Steve Gibson is a busy businessman, but he is the only one to make the final call. No or yes. So we need to wait.
Elsewhere, the BBC is reporting that Wolves don't appear close to naming a replacement for Pereira, whose departure was swiftly followed by that of director of football Domenico Teti after just four-and-a-half months at the club. Gary O'Neil, who was sacked last December, has opted against a potential return after initial talks, while Middlesbrough have turned down an approach for their manager Rob Edwards.
So nothing new - except I did not know that the director of football has left, too. And the Midlands club is owed by a Chinese owner. The Chinese owners - in general - have lost the interest in buying and owning big football clubs. So Aston Villa, Birmingham, Southampton and Inter Milan were sold by their Chinese owners, for example, and Wolves is the last one owned by the Chinese anymore. Begs the question, why Edwards would be interested in going in there.
But he knows the club better than us and he has his family living close by. But the Wolves owner has not injected any money to the club for two seasons and has mainly sold all the big assests. And Joge Mendes has not been seen at Wolverhampon for over two years now.
There was an article in the local sports magazine in Finland on Wolves this week. After two bad starts to the season (they had 3 points after ten matches last season), the situation does not look rosy.
I think we will know more at around five o'clock this afternoon. Up the Boro!
So Rob Edwards has been stood down for today's game after expressing a desire to move to Wolves - it's all about reaching an agreement with Wolves now - not said yet who will be in charge.
he should record a cover version - In Between Jobs...
I think the club have handled all this unexpected nonsense in a textbook manner to ensure damage limitation - there's nothing more they can do but keep Edwards away from the players and then force either Edwards or Wolves to take liability and pay full compensation.
Looking at this photo of Edwards from his time at Wolves it appears the sponsor on the jacket may have given the game away...
I am sure many of the fans will have an alternative song for him this afternoon
"I would disagree that it's in anyway ok for somebody to opt to leave the key post of leader after all the planning for the season that has gone into trying to achieve an objective because a better personal offer suddenly appears within a few months of signing up to a long-term project.
Surely you have a responsibility to the whole club and team to follow through on your agreement - especially given all the hard work and money spent in getting the club into having their best chance of making that goal in many years.
It's hard to judge this situation as anything other than a pure and simple selfish act not worthy of somebody who aspires to be the leader - it lets down everybody and risks leaving them in a demoralised mess where the rest have to pick up the pieces to allow you leave on a whim."
Werder's words, quoted above, summarise the key point for me.
Of course, we all of us will put our own family first. And who knows what complications may have arisen for Rob Edwards' wife and/or two daughters which may have been made worse by his absence.
But I was reminded of something Mark Viduka said in the excellent link posted by Martin. Speaking of the major psychological difficulties he experienced as a young man moving from Australia to Croatia, where he would be regularly insulted in the streets, and then moving on to Leeds, where he asked to live with his manager's family in order to give him some roots and sense of stability, he observed that in England, many people found it difficult to adjust in simply moving from the South to the North of the country.
It's a great point. Edwards is moving because it's inconvenient to be three hours away from his family.
But what about all of the young men to whom he has a duty of care. The 18yo old Nypan. A kid miles from home, trying to settle whilst being shuffled around Europe, not getting a regular game and knowing he is only here for a year. And Strelec, also in and out of the team and the country, deprived of any kind of service and still trying to settle. And Sene, who looked as though he was having some kind of breakdown when he was withdrawn to the bench a few games ago. And young Kante. And Hansen. And even Morris, still a young man, settling into a new life miles from home, and suffering a relapse of form. And even the more experienced Whittaker, who revealed recently the personal traumas accompanying his lack of success here, and in whose cause Edwards upbraided Boro supporters only a few days ago.
Edwards, having expressed his sensitivity and concern for his players in these kind of situations, has now unceremoniously dumped the lot of them. We have a cohort of players who are strangers, not least to each other, trying to establish their place and identity in a land becoming increasingly defaced by everyday expressions of xenophobia and open racism. The club is the place where they can begin to build a sense of belonging and community. A place where they have a place. And now the captain of the ship has been the first to desert them, and taken his anchor with him, for his personal convenience.
We all know that the problems of settlement outlined above are what lie behind Boro's stuttering recent form. Apart from Morris, all of the players I have mentioned are forwards. Our defence is solid because it contains established Championship experience in every position. The hope has been that once the forwards had settled and become more familiar with each other they would begin to 'click'.
Now an enormous spanner has been thrown into that works, exposing even further a fragility for which the players themselves have little responsibility, because it has been the deliberate policy of the club.
Carrick did wonderfully well in making it a top priority for everyone within the club from the senior management to the tea ladies to make every new recruit feel part of the group."Even you.. " he once said to Scott in a presser.
It was to Edwards credit that he seemed to be on the same page. It is his tragedy, and the club's, that his words have proved to be merely rhetorical. Empty gestures that have made a challenging situation incomparably worse, not only for the first team squad but for the 350 odd personnel employed by the club.
He should hang his head in shame. Even Wolves supporters think he has made a major error of judgment. It will surely be one that will haunt and compromise him for the rest of his career
Great post Len. We are of course, discussing someone who has already walked out on a team before……Forest Green Rovers a few years back. A man who has no principles or moral compass? In hindsight, did we have some red flags we didn’t pick up on?
@lenmasterman. Spot on Len. An excellent summary of the mess RE’s inconsiderate nature has left MFC in. 😎
Middlesbrough are set to sound out Millwall manager Alex Neil about becoming their new head coach. (Football Insider)
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