I think clubs normally have 24 hours after the window closes to registered their squads.
Typical! The Times finally publishes a report on a Boro match & it's all about the opposition:
because Blunderland earned it! 🙁
One slight complication for Boro is that the MLS transfer window is open from 31 January to 23 April - this means if the Latte Lath transfer fell through then Boro would probably be too late to register him in their own squad - which probably means Boro may decide to register LL in their post-January squad.
Having calmed down, I hope with a little change of luck or fortune we get that lot in the play offs, the ecstasy I would feel after pulverizing them.
@werdermouth It is a daft thing, the January window.
I think clubs should get a squad together in the summer and that should be the squad for the season.
The January window distorts the true challenge of a season-long campaign in my opinion.
@chris-from-barlby I’d agree with that. Every January seems to more of a disruption than it’s worth.
100% agree. It’s a mid-season upheaval that I suspect most teams would rather not have.
One point of view is that we should be resigned to winning some games we will not be expected to win, followed by defeats in matches we thought would be "safe". We might score some goals but concede at least an equal number. Boro will take the lead in games only to collapse under a late onslaught by the opposition. We may gain unexpected draws when no points had been anticipated before the game. And, when all is done, Boro will finish maybe 7th or 8th, and not TOO far away from thinking that finishing in the Play-Off positions was within the team's grasp had it not been for the unfortunate events in the X game (fill in the appropriate name from a wide list of candidates).
If we adopt that (I'd suggest, not unreasonable) view, then we will lose less sleep as the season drifts to its conclusion but if things take an unexpectedly positive turn, we can gain real enjoyment, maybe even amazement, as Boro finishes in the Play-Offs with the minimum of anxst being suffered by supporters along the way. It's a win-win situation. "I knew the team wasn't all that good, right from the start of the season" meets in mortal combat "Well, I'll take that Play-Off place after all. Thank you very much for THAT surprise!"
At this stage I would have little confidence predicting a Boro win in ANY particular game. If Boro were a professional boxer, it would be rated about 10 to 20. A good pro, capable of the odd upset and probably one who'll win the odd fight against boxers even ranked 6 to 12. Capable of giving the higher-ranked boxers a decent fight so certainly not a "bum" employed to buff up the record of a fighter hoping for a title challenge in due course. But only in dreams these days is that boxer going to win a title fight or beat someone in the top few positions. Sufficiently close to the top to be on some big bills, to hear the roar of followers and to feel the closeness of success whilst never really being able to climb the final couple of hurdles to be able to get to the top. Never likely to hear "And, the NEW....!"
Maybe if we become resigned to that likely outcome, it would be better for our blood pressures and general contentment. To borrow from a point I made in my post after the Sunderland match, we are probably already feeling better about our defence and our team than supporters of, say, Manchester City, Manchester United and Spurs are feeling at present. And they are, we are continually asssured by the pundits on Sky. the BBC and TalkSport as well as the national Press, BIG CLUBS. Maybe contentment can be relative, too.
I've got to defend Edmonson somewhat he might not be the most cultured player in the game , but he does put his body on the line when defending, unlike Fry and RVB , both at times soft as you know what ,
He actually bales them out at times,
A Tony Mcandrew type, limited but brave, Edmonson was trying to defend the goal last night unfortunately it slammed off his chest.
Big mistake this windows , not signing a RB, we haven't got one
@forever-dormo Wise words. My time of feeling miserable for days after a defeat is long gone. It doesn’t mean I don’t want us to win, it just means I’ll wait for the next success to follow on another match day.
@selwynoz A really well written post, and delivered with belief.
However as much as you make a very good case for the defence, I believe that the prosecution has a far stronger case. Since Carrick has arrived we have constantly leaked goals with far too many of our own making.
OK, the football we try too play has at times been more entertaining than the recent past, and yes it is a higher risk system that will give a greater number of opportunities to the opposition than say with a more pragmatic approach.
And one could say that our forwards should be making more of the chances we make. But we have scored 49 goals, only bettered by Leeds 60. If our players were taking more of the chances we were making, then like Latte Lathe, they would not be playing for MFC.
No in my opinion, the fault of our continual leaking of goals and too many self inflicted ones, lays firmly at the door of Carrick and Scott, aided to some degree by Mr Gibson for letting them, not at least attempt to solve or even improve this major issue after over two seasons of matches.
I find it really hard to see what Woodgate brings to the party. A CB, renowned in his day, but like a number other top footballers, they also failed to be any good at coaching at a football club.
The same may also apply to Carrick, but to a lesser degree. He has improved some players and given us some nice football, but not at a sufficient level given the financial support from the Owner, especially this season.
In the end, if you do not concede you come away with a point, score and you have a good chance of three. I know that is simplistic, however when your defence has very little pace and limited ability with the ball, plus a midfield that also lacks pace to a degree, then there is always going to be a consequence.
Sunderland have pace in abundance and over the 90 minutes we just could not cope with it. Ayling, a very good professional, who I like, was bought against last seasons assists, with little thought to his age and inability to track back.
Edmundson, is a steady Eddie, but is not good enough for the Carrick system, as proven last night with three very poor passes from the back to Sunderland players before we even scored. That is why McKenna did not pick him for his team.
Even VDB has not pushed on this season and from recent performances can only play as the right sided CB. The same with Fry, which was why I assume he did not play on the left and is behind VBG in pecking order.
Carrick, if he is not careful, could end up being one of those great footballers, that do not turn out to be even good coaches, in the sense of winning something.
Whilst we still sit seventh, so still have a chance of the play offs, the odds are getting longer each game we now contrive to lose. If we miss out this season, then questions I am sure will be asked of Carrick.
There will probably be another big turnover of players and even Hackney may want to move. Will our current coach and Scott, be the answer to oversee all of this?
Good post Pedro and I should have said, as you did, how much I enjoyed Selwyn's post.
And Dormo's above
Totally agree about Ayling, he’s lost pace and commits errors and his mistakes cause goals against. Whilst it is easy to blame one player it is no coincidence that the last few games have shown that Aylings involvement have led to goals being scored against us.
I would suggest that it would be better to reinstate Fry to the centre back position and move VDB to right back and move Ayling out !
As I said in the opener we still lack leadership on the pitch !
OFB
have to say. I'm definitely with you on that oneHaving calmed down, I hope with a little change of luck or fortune we get that lot in the play offs, the ecstasy I would feel after pulverizing them.
Good post Pedro in response to another one from Selwynoz.
As I see it, MC over delivered in his first season assisted by one player having the season of his life and a few PL players.
Second season was one of under delivery, in part due to a large turnover of players and injuries.
This season is probably the biggest under delivery so far given the expectations and the support provided; we constantly see the same mistakes being made yet little in the way of correcting influence from MC and his team.
For me the jury is already out on MC I regret to say. I like him as a person but I fear he has produced a team like West Ham of years ago, plays nice football at times but wins nothing.
As far as SG is concerned, no one can challenge his dedication, financial and emotional commitment to the club but you must question his decision making over the last 10 years where we have failed to be convincing promotion candidates and only a few years back we were in danger of relegation.
I accept the season is not yet over but I wouldn’t put my money, or anyone else’s, of making top six let alone winning the play offs; if we don’t then what next? 😎
I agree with that too, with yhe caveatvthatcermergency signings/loans should be permitted at any time in the season.@werdermouth It is a daft thing, the January window.
I think clubs should get a squad together in the summer and that should be the squad for the season.
The January window distorts the true challenge of a season-long campaign in my opinion.
Needcto restrict number of loaners in a squad much further, to one for a full season with emergency loans not counting. That might counter the gravity of all the best young talent getting "owned" by the Premier League clubs.
@lenmasterman - I enjoyed reading those posts, too.
We can all see there are issues with the team and the system it plays. It might be a combination of reasons and a permutation of different players required to do a job in different positions for different matches. Perhaps those in charge of management/coaching understand the issues as well. However finding a solution seems to have evaded them so far ...
@k-p-in-spain What next? Another season in the Championship I guess. One where we flirt with the playoffs, win a lot of games, lose quite a few and draw some. It wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Now, imagine we win this year’s playoffs and get promoted. What next? I’d suggest it’d be defeat after defeat, an occasional win and at best some draws, with the plus of more money available when we were relegated.
What next? Yes, I agree.
The problem is that yet another season in the Championship means yet another major rebuild. If we stay down, we will almost certainly lose VDB, Morris, Hackney as well as all the loanees. And if our defence currently isn’t good enough to get us up, then we’d probably end up having to replace Ayling, Giles, Edmondson, Borges. Barlaser would have to go, and Jonny’s time is up. Staying down this season is obviously not a palatable prospect, but is probably the most realistic outcome given current form.
@martin-bellamy. I agree with you entirely and at the same time think, if only!
Yes we may get hammered week in week out for one season but at least it may provide sufficient income to sustain us.
That being said, why have Brentford, Brighton, Ipswich, Wolves, Bournemouth, et al been able to secure promotion and in some cases sustain it, when we can’t? Sunderland may be the next ones to do it which would hurt even more.
The one positive for me about life in the Championship is that I can see 40+ games a season via Riverside Live where as life in the PL would probably be very much confined to the occasional Sky game and highlights via Match of the Day.
I am not depressed but I am still hurting, we should all expect more from our club. 😎
@forever-dormo Wise words. My time of feeling miserable for days after a defeat is long gone. It doesn’t mean I don’t want us to win, it just means I’ll wait for the next success to follow on another match day.
Exactly my thoughts. Why worry too much? Of course a defeat - especially against the Roker men - is hard to take for a few hours, but life goes on. Better try to enjoy the highs and forget the lows, me thinks.
I heard from somewhere that this was the first time since early 1960's that Boro have lost both matches against Sunderland during the same season and the first home defeat for about 10 years. And they were the better team on Monday.
But for Steve Gibson I hope we will get promoted one day. He must want that very much. Up the Boro!
@stircrazy - The stats from the report in The Times, for which you kindly provided the link, suggest an even game rather than one which Sunderland deserved to win. Certainly rather than a game where Sunderland was much better than Boro. Being better than Boro isn't something you could nail onto one game but it's something that becomes clear over a season. They say the league table doesn't lie. I didn't see any report of the game in The Telegraph, which is a bit of a surprise given that only two games were played on Monday evening (ours and Chelsea v West Ham).
And @Clive-Hurren @martin-bellamy and @k-p-in-Spain: I'd say that Boro seems very unlikely to achieve promotion this season. The top 4 teams in our division are now so far ahead as to almost be out of sight. At the time of typing this (10.15am) there is a chasm of 13 points between Sunderland in 4th place and Leeds in first place. Here it is:
Leeds - played 30, GD 41, points 63
Burnley - p 31, GD 28, points 61
Sheff U - p 30, GD 20, points 61
S'land - p 30, GD 19, points 58
B'burn - p 31, GD 4, points 45
WBA - p 30, GD 12, points 44
BORO - p 30, GD 10, points 44
So we might say that the Top Four have already gone and it seems like dreamland to suggest Boro could climb into an automatic promotion place. That leaves two places "up for grabs" for a Play-Off position behind the two teams in the Top Four who falter and fail to achieve an automatic spot. The possible candidates for the two remaining Play-Off positions are obviously Blackburn, WBA and Boro from the list above, to which we might add Norwich, Bristol City and Sheff W (all having played 30 games and being only 2 points below Boro in the table). Two places up for grabs between 6 teams who are much of a muchness according to the league table, with a further 3 teams just one further point below the last of the teams already named.
I accept that being in the Play-Offs is a bit of a lottery. But, being realistic, the clubs in that lottery won't have the same number of tickets in their possession. If the table doesn't lie, the Top Four teams are clearly rather better than the teams below them, as the gap between 4th and 5th shows. The prospects of beating any of those teams in a one-off game (eg in a Wembley Final) are rather less than 50/50 but the prospects of first beating one of those teams over TWO legs (ie the Play-Off semi-finals) is further reduced. So it's unlikely to come about, if Boro could end up in the Play-Offs, that the team would be promoted at the end of them.
I'd obviously be delighted if promotion were to be achieved, despite what I have written above. Yes, I'm sure that if Boro did manage promotion from the current position then that would require an upturn in form, performance and consistency over that which has been witnessed so far this season. But even then, and even if Boro strengthened the squad as a result of promotion, the team would enter the Premier League Season 2025-26 as one of the weakest teams ever to find itself in the PL. As people have suggested earlier, there might be the odd unexpected excellent result here and there in the Premier League but, for most of the season we would watch defeats and draws at home and mostly defeats away. Goodness, we lose plenty of games already at home in The Championship, and the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Villa, Chelsea et al are literally a league above teams like Bristol City, Coventry, and Blackburn (who, amongst other Championship teams have already this season alone beaten Boro at The Riverside).
So, if the mountain were to be climbed this season, the next season would almost inevitably witness an avalanche which would overwhelm Boro in 2025-26.
HOWEVER I'd still welcome promotion because it would provide Boro with parachute money so enormous in terms of the club's current turnover that it could be used to further strengthen the club's playing staff for ANOTHER assault on promotion the year after. In the absence of suddenly discovering (and keeping) a whole generation of Boro youth players who could grace the Premier League, or appointing the equivalent of a young manager like Brian Clough in the 2020s, or the club being taken over by a multi-billionaire who discovers his Teesside roots, the only way for a club like Boro to become a settled PREMIER League club would be the sequential improvements that can be achieved by being promoted and using the PL payments wisely to gradually strenghthen the club. And then eventually being promoted and staying up there. That probably means NOT spending loads of money in wages for spent players to make a final payment into their pension funds and then to disappear the next season as a massive loss for the club.
But the pleasure of going up this season, if it could be achieved, would soothe the brow a little during what would inevitably be a VERY hard PL season the following year. The club probably needs a 5-10 year plan, not just a promotion season plan.
There - that took a while to type out!
Tommy Smith has retired from football after failing to recover from his Achilles injury. Good luck Tommy for your future and thanks for your efforts for Boro.
Come on BORO.
@forever-dormo I hear what you’re saying, but I’m still unsure about the benefits of enduring a thoroughly miserable year in the EPL, just to acquire monies to support another promotion push after relegation.
Reading fans reaction on social media to our current position, with blame and ire directed at our manager and, incredibly, at our owner, makes me dread to imagine what the response to a miserable season of losses would be.
Being a fan of a football team is an odd experience. Do we want to watch a better than average team and be entertained at the same time, or is the be all and end all to have a season as the whipping boys for the usual big clubs, to secure enough income to watch a better than average team in the Championship. Answers on a postcard please to “uncertain of Sherburn”.
It looks like a major rebuild next season whatever the outcome - though that's the Championship where players who excel are open to offers and those who don't perform to expectations are moved on.
Though I'm still surprised with the January window with 8 exits (LL, Jones, Clarke, Gilbert, Hamilton, Engel*, Hoppe, AJ Matthews) and 5 first-team arrivals (Whittaker, Giles, Travers, Iling-Junior, Iheanacho) and other muted exits of Dijksteel and Barlaser that didn't materialise plus other signings that didn't work out.
Since 4 of those arrivals were loans plus Doak then we're probably looking at 5 potential starters (if they perform) needing replacing. Plus as you mention Howson and Ayling are past their best and offers for Hackney, Morris and Rav are not unlikely - then what of players like McGree and Forss who are not quite what they were either, as well as Dijksteel and Barlaser who are already half out of the door.
So this last third of the season is perhaps one last hurrah for most of the team to achieve something - where promotion is also likely to see most replaced too as hard to see more than a few cutting it in the PL.
Maybe Carrick's position will also be assessed at the end of the season too as a major rebuild will need to be undertaken with the methods of the man in charge being foremost if we are to avoid signing potential square pegs for holes of varying shape.
As we look at the bottom three of the PL we can see last season's promoted clubs with 9 wins out of 72 games between them and a whopping 156 goals conceded!
What's not to like 😱
That's very bad luck for Tommy Smith that he couldn't recover from that injury after 15 months - he must be devastated. Here's an article where he speaks about his decision to retire...
Just for the record, I think Boro have just as good a chance as any of making the top six this season - indeed nearly all the teams below us chasing for the play-offs have worse or only slightly better defensive records.
Though if you look at the last ten games then Boro sit 13th in the form table but Watford (21st) have imploded with 7 defeats and just wins over struggling Portsmouth and Derby - likewise, Blackburn (19th) have lost 6 and won just 2 and West Brom (16th) have won only 3.
Coventry and QPR look the danger teams - both 3 points behind Boro but both have won 6 from their last ten.
Though the top 4 look beyond everyone and Burnley continue to show a ridiculous defensive capability with no goals conceded in their last 9 games now - but 5 nil-nil draws in that run so they're not really entertaining promotion just slogging their way into the PL. Perhaps enjoying watching your team have a go but keeping you on a knife edge is preferable to just admiring the table!
@martin-bellamy - What I'm suggesting is that for a club in Boro's position and unlikely to win the "lottery" of discovering a long-lost billionaire to fund its future improvement, the only way forward is to make the gradual improvements that a 5-10 year plan might allow. Probably at the top end of that 5-10 year period. Namely be promoted, use the monies recieved by parachute payments to improve the squad so that a future relegation leaves the club in a stronger position for another promotion. It might well take a club like Boro a few goes but the ulitmate aim is to have a team sufficiently strong that it can be confident of STAYING in the Premier League when promotion is achieved.
Teams like Bournemouth, Aston Villa, Fulham, Brentford, Brighton and stratospherically-flying Nottingham Forest were all, not long ago, in Boro's position in seeking promotion. Brighton (promoted 2017), Aston Villa (2019), Brentford (2021) and Fulham, Bournemouth and high-flying Nottingham Forest (all three promoted in 2022), have successfully negotiated their promotion seasons and are now all secure Premier League clubs.
For Boro, being promoted and then being relegated again (and maybe more than once) might be a necessary route to follow. It may be that a season, or more than one season, struggling in the Premier League, is the price to pay for a club like Boro eventually to find a safe seat at the Premier League dining table. I'd be more than prepared to go through a season (or a few alternate seasons of fallow) if, at the end of that 5-10 year period, if I'm still here, Boro has made itself a solid Premier League club. At that stage we would not be getting repeated beatings (for then we'd not be a secure PL club) but instead start each league season with confidence and probably with a chance of chasing one of the Cups on offer.