@forever-dormo I am travelling on business.
I want people to remember that Boro can play well - it only needs to happen more often. And sometimes at home.
I can understand your angst as you see only home matches. And Saturday was the worst performance under Carrick.
I wish Latte Lath, I Jones and Hackney were fit now. Up the Boro!
A Sreve Gibson interview on the Echo. Twenty years after the League Cup win.
Up the Boro!
Friend of mine moved there with his ex years ago, his daughter speaks English with a teesside twang, he has just become a French citizen so he can live invspain with his new wife
The problem is we haven't seen it enough at home, in fact a number of the home performances have been pathetic and the home performances influence season ticket renewal decisions.
@martin-bellamy & @werdermouth - I think you are right that there are some places where no amount of money would cause most of us to move, but there are other places not QUITE so bad, and where pots of money might tip the balance. The sort of money footballers are paid, even at BORO, comes well within the pots-of-money category.
I think that, although we can moan in England about ambulance times, infrastructure "issues" and so on, it's really not THAT bad. My wife had timely medical treatment arranged at local hospitals (Northallerton, Middlesbrough and Hartlepool) in 2023 despite the horror stories we sometimes read. And that treatment amounted to (1) removing a 50mm diameter meningioma in a craniotomy operation (the existence of that meningioma was a surprise as no symptoms had been noted - it was identified when spotted on one of the various scans she had for the breast cancer), (2) an operation to remove the aforementioned breast cancer and (3) an operation to remove a cataract in one eye (the other one is due to be done in a couple of months or so).
The staff at all the hospitals, although clearly busy, were all helpful and friendly, explained the options and some showed a sense of humour. The ops were all successful - brain tumour removed with no ill effects (wife did her first 'post-op' headstand at yoga last weekend), breast cancer tumours removed with no sign of spread and her eyesight is better than it was pre-op not only because the cataract was removed but also they inserted a lens to correct the vision in that 'weaker eye' and she can now drive without spectacles even before the 2nd eye is attended to. All on the NHS at no personal cost apart from paying taxes. The only complaint is parking at the hospitals, but I'll happily take that, and a few minor issues over phone calls!
Yes, the roads some places have potholes and some families are not happy if they don't get their first choice school for their children, but these really are First World Problems. If you live in a "desirable" village with a good school just a few doors up the road, with pubs, a cricket club re-opening this weekend after the winter, and friendly people all around, life is good.
- Basically most old seaside towns in England are struggling - few people now go there for holidays - and places like Blackpool (apparently top of the drugs league, and with other social problems & economic issues worse than in Middlesbrough), Redcar, Skegness etc are prime examples. Places where types of industry have closed down, like coal mining or steel towns, are suffering. But then it was always thus - areas of the country were virtually de-populated during the Industrial Revolution as farm workers and their families flocked to places like the South Wales Valleys and, of course, Teesside. The Severn Valley was once a crucible of the Industrial Revolution even earlier than South Wales and Teesside. Few shed tears for the home-spinners of yarn and cloth producers who had been working for centuries in towns & villages up and down the country as their jobs were replaced by the massive water and then steam-powered mills in Yorkshire and Lancashire and the jobs available inside them.
In England there is considerable wealth particularly in London and the South East, and the Cotswolds, Sandbanks etc, but also relative poverty and crime. Comfortable pretty chocolate-box villages might be only a 20 minutes drive from an inner-city sink estate, but it's the same in many Western countries (including Scotland and Wales), even the richer ones.
The USA seems to be the dream for millions in South & Central America and some in Europe, yet there is staggering inequality there, much more racism than one would expect in the UK, to say nothing of health inequality and MASSIVE violence problems. France seems to have riots fairly regularly and clearly some parts of Paris and Marseilles seem to be a tinder-box ready to go up because of racial and poverty issues. Even in Germany there are said to be massive differences in virtually all quality-of-life issues between the bulk of the country and the former East Germany.
Maybe the grass IS greener in New Zealand but I wouldn't bet on it.
(I don't know how I got that indented bullet-point paragraph above - must have accidentally pressed a button on the phone I'm using. But I'm not going back because if I try to re-format it, I might well lose the lot!!).
@forever-dormo It is quite often true, that the “grass is not greener on the other side”
Generally people always complain about there own environment, and think other countries have it a lot better. For all its problems and issues, there are many worse places to live than the UK.
Social care for the elderly for instance in England is a political football. In Spain, it is not, because there are are very, very few care homes and those generally private. Family are the carers. Nowhere is perfect, we all know that now with easy travel and the internet.
Of course there are worse places to live than the UK but given it is the 6th wealthiest country in the world (just been overtaken by India) it should be doing a lot better in providing the essential services. The UK is now ranked 33rd in the world in terms of healthcare of the population - which is based on whether people are healthy and have access to the necessary services to maintain good health, including health outcomes, health systems, illness and risk factors, and mortality rates. It's behind 18 European countries plus Japan, China, South Korea, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and even Cuba - though it's still 36 places above the USA so being a wealthy country doesn't mean that the money gets shared with the population!
As to whether the current NHS model is the best one in 21st century is another discussion altogether and probably not for the end of the Boro v Plymouth thread but decline has happened and is still happening and I know of several cases that I would never have imagine could happen in a country like the UK. A few examples...
A friend was playing tennis in London and the woman she was playing with fell and was in severe pain (she'd broken her hip) - they rang an ambulance and told her there were currently none available and suggested they tried to get her in a car and make there own way to the hospital. The woman couldn't move so they made her comfortable covered her with blankets and in the end they waited 3 hours before an ambulance arrived! The paramedics told them it was a good job they hadn't tried to get into car as it would have most likely severed an artery.
My sister was leaving the Riverside and walking back to the car with her neighbour when he suddenly collapsed - he was unconscious for a few minutes before coming round - she rang for an ambulance and they told her it was at least an hour wait and she should try to bring him to the hospital herself. She got some passers by to stay with him while she ran and got her car and they got him into the car. It turned out it was a heart-related problem and he was ultimately fitted with a pacemaker but it could have been a lot worse.
My uncle was having stomach problems and was having tests and had to go for a biopsy at the hospital then returned home the same day - that evening he went to the bathroom and started coughing up lots of blood. They called an ambulance and thankfully arrived after only 40 minutes and discovered that they'd accidentally punctured his spleen during the biopsy. Anyway, they did some more tests and sent him home two days later saying there wasn't anymore they could do but he still wasn't eating - his wife, who was 86 said she couldn't look after him and a few days later he was admitted back into hospital but unfortunately he was already weak as he had a tumour that was preventing him from eating and he died a week later. The problem was there was no social care available and the hospital needed the bed so didn't want to keep him there just to look after him.
The staff at the NHS provide great care as Dormo mentioned regarding his wife but they now operate at full capacity week in week out and that can't be good for any service. There are no ambulances because there aren't enough beds to free them up when they arrive at the hospital and there aren't enough beds because there isn't enough social care to look after people who don't require hospital treatment. This is what decline looks like and longer it continues the bigger the problem and the longer it takes to fix and the higher the cost of fixing it.
FD and Werdermouth, two great posts even though nothing really to do with the Plymouth debacle, unless that game really has been a catalyst stimulating mass migration to fairer climes.
I agree with much of what you both have said. My only observation on the state of the NHS is that it is sadly something that tends to be played as a political football, rather than something the grown ups realise there needs to be a concensus about.
Concensus politics really only happens in the centre ground and whilever our electoral system promotes government of extreme, swinging right then left, the true voice of the people is rarely heard, let alone listened to and so there is never a concensus in power about many of the essential elements a mature and caring society needs and deserves.
Yes there probably needs to be more consensus but unlikely there will be the radical investment needed in healthcare whoever wins the next election. Just as a comparison, Germany spends €5,700 per capita on healthcare compare to the UK's €3,600 - I don't see any party promising anywhere near that level of spending at the next election so don't expect to see much in the way of improvement anytime soon. Plus the UK has many decades of spending less and subsequently less capacity and trained staff - it will take decades to fix this problem as it has been allowed to grow.
@werdermouth - More money needs to be spent, though I appreciate there are other services in the UK crying out for money, too, and at some point a balance has to be made between between money put in and how efficiently that money is utilised. And I never forget the point made (can't remember by whom) that voters in the UK all say they want more money spent on X, Y and Z but when they get inside the polling booth they tend to put their cross against the candidate offering tax cuts rather than rises.
And to bring that back to football and to BORO, we'd all like the team to be successful yet when the round rotating machine hits the soft brown object (the wallet in our pocket) many object. It's OK for Steve Gibson to put money into the club each month, but FAN X isn't prepared to pay that 11% (or whatever) increase in the ST price for next season. I accept some might not be able to afford that increase, or may have to re-prioritise household expenditure to allow it. I suppose the options are (1) Hope Steve Gibson continues his generosity beyond expectations and in return agree to the increased ticket prices in order to fund the players needed to secure the long-dreamed-of promotion. And if that promotion doesn't happen, being prepared to do the same next year. (2) Make sensible improvements in the way the club's income is spent and, whilst maintaining SG's contributions and ticket prices at current levels, seeking to spend more of that money on our youth system rather than purchases/loans, to make the club more sustainable, with the dream outcome still visible though maybe even less likely (3) Accept that the club and its supporters can't maintain unachievable ambitions (to the relief of SG's accountant and to the relief of supporters' own bank accounts) and therefore have a re-set: cheaper tickets and less money invested by SG in return for accepting the club should have its sights on lower/mid-table survival funded by the sale of some of the youth players coming through plus the odd cup-run. That way there'd be reduced risk of splurging too much money trying to seek promotion and therefore if that fails, as it has done for several seasons, putting the club's finances under stress.
Are supporters prerpared to pay less, in return for having "more limited/realistic" expectations? Or do they want/expect higher footballing returns but on lower/stagnating financial contributions? (In an ideal world I'd like a brand new top-of-the-range Range Rover whilst paying 5-year-old Nissan X-Trail prices).
I think it was reported a few weeks ago that it would be cheaper to play to an empty Riverside and give everyone who usually attended £10 a game to stay away. I guess that's the crazy economics of running a football club - likewise given the choice everyone would probably prefer to pay less for everything including tax so in the end it's all about how you explain the decision of why that is the cost of something so people accept it has it be that way.
I’m keen that we don’t drift into too political a debate on here (although honestly I’d like to discuss lots of things that are affecting how our country is being run) - the chances of having a grown up conversation that avoids party line arguments on any platform seem low, although I’d bet that the discourse on here would be more temperate than on most other sites.
Let’s stick* to the thing we are all more or less agreed on - our football team.
*unless anyone wants to talk about religion 😉
John Richardson liked a post I put on here a few weeks ago about cruise ships visiting Middlesbrough!
Its certainly a varied blog this isn’t it?
Anyway it got me thinking about it because the former Mayor of Middlesbrough didn’t listen to myself or friends and former business partners on how to regenerate the town and went about doing his own thing.
At great expense Middlesbrough council bought the Crown Bar and Bingo Hall (formerly the ABC Cinema) to turn into an Asian performing arts theatre ( it’s still empty,)
They then bought TJ HUghes Dept store in Captain Cook Square ( very nearly renamed the square!) and turned that into a multi level gaming store over a year ago. Current status is…….it closed down on Friday !
A great idea ? Was to then purchase Binns dept store at a cost of £750k and they propose to turn that into an art and crafts centre in the basement and first floor displaying home made craft goods and wares!
So it got me thinking ???
Was Cruise ships to visit Middlesbrough such a crackpot idea?
So I contacted the Mayor and some former business colleagues and we’ve dusted down the project and we have a meeting with the mayor and chief executives in two weeks !
If craft stall owners can take over Binns then we must have every chance!
Wish me luck !
OFB
Oh other news
My friend Gary Gill has just joined Southampton FC as deputy head of recruitment. He is going to work with a Mr Mowbray ( not Tony!) perhaps the Boro should have looked at where all those good players we found when we were in the Premiership were recruited from.?
OFB
John Richardson liked a post I put on here a few weeks ago about cruise ships visiting Middlesbrough!
Its certainly a varied blog this isn’t it?
So it got me thinking ???
Was Cruise ships to visit Middlesbrough such a crackpot idea?
So I contacted the Mayor and some former business colleagues and we’ve dusted down the project and we have a meeting with the mayor and chief executives in two weeks !
If craft stall owners can take over Binns then we must have every chance!
Wish me luck !
OFB
There are cruise ships going up the North Seas over the top and across to Ireland so its not a crackpot idea. The trick is to propose interesting day trips that the passengers can do. Maybe a sightseeing day on the North York Moors and/or Dales would be a reasonable idea. Or perhaps even 'the industrial heritage of the area'
Good luck
@original-fat-bob It's not a crackpot idea, it just needs backing, enthusiasm and planning. A trip to Castle Howard via Bilsdale would open their eyes. York had the moors re-named to expand their estate. Teesside managers just aren't thinking originally. High Force and Bowes Museum along with Richmond anyone?
UTB,
John
I like the idea of the cruise ships stopping over in Middlesbrough, and, as has already been said, there are plenty of local attractions to make coach trips from the Boro viable, but I can’t help thinking that, given a choice, most passengers would rather dock in Newcastle with its shops and nightlife.
I’m probably not a good judge, though. I’ve only ever been on one cruise (in the Med) and really didn’t enjoy it.
cruises tend to leave in the evening and travel at night and so spend the daytime sightseeing.
The Tyne has berthing restrictions that the Tees doesn’t and as Kevin Keegan once said “Middlesbrough are closer to Scotland than Newcastle!”
OFB
🤣The Tyne has berthing restrictions that the Tees doesn’t and as Kevin Keegan once said “Middlesbrough are closer to Scotland than Newcastle!”
OFB