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BORO v Hull City
 

BORO v Hull City

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ELL (who else?!!) gives Boro the lead in the fourth minute, assisted by Engel.  🙂


   
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Posted by: @stircrazy

ELL (who else?!!) gives Boro the lead in the fourth minute, assisted by Engel.  🙂

CJ:

Boro lead! What a start, and it's that man again. Clarke over the top for Engel. He puts it into the box from the wide area on the half volley and Latte Lath latches onto it and finishes really well from the tight angle at the near post.

 


   
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Bugger!  Philogene equalises for the Tigers 25 minutes later.  🙁


   
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Posted by: @stircrazy

Bugger!  Philogene equalises for the Tigers 25 minutes later.  🙁

Double bugger!  Jean Seri puts Hull 2-1 up in the 41st minute - CJ:

Boro behind. It's a gift. Dieng playing it out to O'Brien on the edge of their own box. He didn't really want that in there, but was on his toes and caught out by Seri, who nips the ball away and runs through to score.

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Stircrazy

   
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2nd goal no words


   
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CJ on the first half:

Frustrating half for Boro. They were really good for 25 minutes and got themselves ahead against a side poor at home of late. But they rather invited the pressure onto themselves. Hull equaliser had been coming. Second goal is a gift. Both are poor for it, but when under pressure, it really wasn't the ball out for Dieng to be playing.


   
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jarkko
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I am happy @dormo did not see the second goal. It was terrible. 

We started well and the Latte Lath goal was a gem, again. But Hull has played well since our excellent first 15 min or so. They look good in passing and finding spaces inside our two banks of players.

But we gifted the second goal. Difficult to see us scoring two goals in the second half. Up the Boro! 


   
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A bright start by Boro who looked to be very much back on Plan A: a back four with Engel pushed high and the front four alternating positions with a high press. Hey presto - 1-0 courtesy of Latte Lath with another smart run and finish.

After another ten minutes or so in that vein, Hull pushed on and Boro unfortunately reverted to defensive mode looking to sit deep, soak it up and spring a counter.

Unfortunately it backfired as Hull packed the box and the sheer number of bodies in the box created enough uncertainty for a tameish cross to find its way into the net.

Then a horrible mistake. I don’t see Dieng as an error-prone keeper but it was one of those moments. 2-1 Hull.

Disappointing after such a strong start. 45mins to get back at it.


   
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Pedro de Espana
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Boro just cannot handle the pace and passing of Hull. The goals that came looked inevitable, and not helped by the clanger from Dieng. I thought we had stopped those?

There are a couple of players missing, Greenwood back to type and Howson looking like he is a better CB than MF.

Cannot see anything other than a bad defeat here.


   
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Posted by: @stircrazy

Bugger!  Philogene equalises for the Tigers 25 minutes later.  🙁

Boro's turn to equalise:  Azaz in the 71st minute, assisted by Izzy - CJ:

Boro level! Perfectly executed counter as Jones and Azaz play it around Giles. Jones then slides it back inside to azaz as he arrives in the box. One touch to set himself, second to finish beyond Allsop.

 


   
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Posted by: @stircrazy

Posted by: @stircrazy

Bugger!  Philogene equalises for the Tigers 25 minutes later.  🙁

Boro's turn to equalise:  Azaz in the 71st minute, assisted by Izzy - CJ:

Boro level! Perfectly executed counter as Jones and Azaz play it around Giles. Jones then slides it back inside to azaz as he arrives in the box. One touch to set himself, second to finish beyond Allsop.

And it finishes 2-2.  Phew!

 


   
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If nothing else the unbeaten run continues.

Come on BORO.


   
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Selwynoz
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Hard to argue that it wasn't a fair result. Yes, we could have sneaked it at the end but Hull looked very good as well at times.

We can still have some fun trying to knock off Ipswich and Leeds - both they and Leicester are having a huge wobbe which is fun to watch - but its hard to see us now making up the points.

It's been emotional (thank you Vinnie Jones)

Lots of positives to take into next year but let's not get bogged down in all that now. 

UTB


   
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Pedro de Espana
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Well the thing we can say about the Boro, is that keep at it. Hull should of won, but took their foot off the pedal somewhat, to let us keep in the game. A good second goal on the counter, which is what we excel in. Hull had their chances and we could have edged it in injury time.

When you look at the bench though, apart from those not available in HH and Forss, who is there that could be a game changer. 

The summer turnover hopefully will improve that.


   
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Well it was indeed rather surprisingly back to Plan A (as Andy said) with the back three ditched and a return to all its nervous shortcomings too that was summed up by that ridiculous 2nd goal conceded from a risky pass that should never have been attempted. In fact both goals conceded should have been avoided but at least Boro got an equaliser - though since I had to leave to pick up Mrs Werder from the station at HT and only got back to see the replay of that equaliser. Anyway, it was a frantic last 20-25 minutes where either side may have got the winner but a lack of composure in the final third failed to create a clear opening. The last play-off spot is now only down to Norwich to throw away.


Clive Hurren
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@werdermouth 

Agree entirely, werder. Boro were shambolic at the back at times, offering Hull a ton of opportunities. A better side than the Tigers would surely have punished us. We’ll need to be so much better against Ipswich and Leeds if we’re to get anything from those two games, even if they are going through nervy times right now. We did play some decent attacking football, though, and created chances, which was encouraging. 

At least both sides went for it tonight, which made for a competitive, quite compelling game. No sign of anybody on the beach just yet. That was the least 2000 fantastic travelling Boro fans deserved from our lads. We have nothing to play for now but pride, but let’s hope we give it everything until the final whistle in the final game. 

I’ll let everybody have the chance to comment on the Hull game before I post the Ipswich opener some time late tomorrow. 


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@werdermouth   Agree entirely Werder. You do have to wonder and worry about Carrick and his apparent obsession at times with his preferred system.

Clive was correct, we were shambolic at the back and were very fortunate Hull did not have a forward on show last night to take advantage. 

For all it has been a relatively poor Championship this season, in terms of consistency, it is so frustrating that Mr Carrick has allowed some many points to slip away whilst persevering with his 4-2-3-1 and playing out from the back.

If he had of been a little more pragmatic and less stubborn, we would have made the play offs. OK, we probably still would not have got promotion, but it would have been more pleasing.


   
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We didn't fail to win the game last night because of inferior tactics. Hull actually played more or less a mirror image.

I don't believe it is Carrick's tactics to play the ball to a marked man in a dangerous area, as Dieng unfortunately did. It was the goalkeeper's decision making failure rather than general tactical one. There were plenty of longer clearances throughout the game.

I can understand criticism of playing out from the back if they players aren't good enough to execute it and give the ball away but this wasn't a difficult pass and he didn't mishit it, he just made a terrible decision.

I thought we conceded the first goal because we were too deep and inviting pressure, the second was just an individual error.

Both our goals were very well taken but I thought Azaz's brilliant equaliser somewhat masked an otherwise ineffective performance, whilst Greenwood had nothing to fall back on. Both have shown an occasional ability to impact games but it's largely too little and too infrequent.

Upgrades needed.

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Andy R

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@andy-r 

Yes, clearly it's not the plan to telegraph a gentle pass to just outside the edge of the box to a tightly marked player who is then involved in a 5-yard sprint to get to it first - though unfortunately that's the kind of error we've got used to seeing from this group of players when playing out from the back and the opposition can smell an error coming too.

I thought the players were beginning to get used to playing the back-three system where it allowed one of them to break out with the ball while offering cover from the other two. The problem with a back four and playing out is that it often sees the two central defenders split into wide positions so that they can receive the ball from the man playing the pivot in midfield. This means when anything goes wrong (as with the pass to O'Brien) the opposition are quickly in on goal with no defender to tackle them.

Indeed, playing with the extra forward yesterday didn't really add any extra threat given Greenwood was basically anonymous throughout the game - would we have missed him if Carrick had opted for an extra defender? Though Boro played far too deep for most of the game yesterday and didn't press the Hull players in possession until they got into the final third.

I wouldn't mind seeing Jones and Bangura play as wing-backs given they both have pace and acceleration - which would easily make up for 'losing' an extra forward. Still, I'd agree that the team need plenty of upgrades in many positions before we get the balance right.

 


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Oh dear, as has been said, that second goal was horrible to watch. Straight from the 'how not to do it' video, simply piece of lousy judgement.

If Boro hadn't reverted to 'Plan A' maybe we could have kept our lead but Hull had some lovely passing through the middle of the field and all-in-all the result seemed fair. Well it did if you are a Boro supporter and the result has put paid to misplaced dreams about the play-offs, for both teams. There will be more wobbles at the top yet. Now for Saturday.

Latte Lathe is quick and a handful but someone is needed to provide constant support for him where they can be a foil for one another and unpredictable. Easy said but who will it be? Is he amongst the great untried at the club or is it the proverbial rough diamond that every team wants to find. Next season it is then.

When Saturday comes I think it's time to go behind the couch again.

All the best to everyone.

UTB,

John


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On a positive note, despite drawing last night Boro still went top of the 8-game form table with 18 points from 5 wins and 3 draws - Hull incidentally are 18th with just one win in their last 8 games (5-1 against Sunderland) - the Black Cats are 20th with also just one win in their last 8 games. Leicester are only 16th with just 3 wins from their last 8 against aforementioned Sunderland, lowly Birmingham and playoff pretenders Norwich. The Canaries are 4th with just one other defeat against the form team Boro!

So I guess we can't really complain just because we haven't won every game that we needed for an outside shot at the playoffs...


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Ah, well!  A draw at Hull would normally be seen as a positive.  But maybe we've all been secretly harbouring those hopes of a string of wins to end the season and sneak into the Play-Offs? To be honest, that was so VERY unlikely to happen as it required BORO to maintain Championship-winning form AND for teams above BORO to implode.  In other words it wasn't really ever in BORO's own hands as it relied on the failings of others (or for lower-table teams to pull off unlikely wins against the teams competing near the top of the table, to allow a BORO in imperious form to catch up).

Let's see what the team can do at Ipswich and at home to Leeds after that!


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@werdermouth 

Greenwood was a waste of space, I wonder if he is a Billy big boots


   
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Clive Hurren
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@paulinboro 

I agree. He’s reverted to disappointing type after one good game.

I also agree with Andy that Azaz was also not convincing until he scored, after which his confidence seemed to improve. For much of the game, he was anonymous and I was just asking myself who it was in our recruitment team who thought he was worth £2.5 million of Steve Gibson’s hard-earned cash, when lo and behold, he popped up with a fine equaliser. I’ll give Azaz the benefit of the doubt for now, then, but not so Greenwood. Let him go. 


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@paulinboro 

I've no idea how he is as a person but his sultry strutting demeanor reminds me a little of a certain Christian Ronaldo - though that's where the comparisons end unless you find his free kicks potentially world class.

Interestingly, as a 17-year old in the Arsenal youth team he looked to be a highly sought after striker with clubs all over Europe apparently interested - maybe he still thinks he's a special player waiting to be discovered but he looks to have lost his way a bit since then.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/players/sam-greenwood-arsenal-juventus-milan-16540756


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@andy-r.  I think your post Andy does have its merits and is well put.

However there is no denying that we have conceded a number of goals and opportunities for the opposition playing out to the "close marked midfielder". 

Surely that pass from somebody of Dieng's calibre should not have even been tried. Let's be honest, he was under no pressure what so ever. Maybe a red mist moment.

I definitely prefer the three at the back when we have the players available. I would not count Fry as one of them.

It also gives the midfield two help against teams that can bypass us through the centre. 

As for Azaz, in answer to Clive's question,  I guess it must have been his goals and assists for Plymouth that attracted the attention, and of course 2.5 million does not not get you much these days for forward type  players.

 

 

 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Pedro de Espana

   
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Posted by: @pedro

@andy-r.  I think your post Andy does have its merits and is well put.

However there is no denying that we have conceded a number of goals and opportunities for the opposition playing out to the "close marked midfielder". 

Surely that pass from somebody of Dieng's calibre should not have even been tried. Let's be honest, he was under no pressure what so ever. Maybe a red mist moment.

I definitely prefer the three at the back when we have the players available. I would not count Fry as one of them.

It also gives the midfield two help against teams that can bypass us through the centre. 

As for Azaz, in answer to Clive's question,  I guess it must have been his goals and assists for Plymouth that attracted the attention, and of course 2.5 million does not not get you much these days for forward type  players.

 

 

 

Some very good posts as detailed above and by others.

The positives from last night were that we did not lose and kept going albeit there was little of quality on display with a lot of poor decisions/execution from players on both sides. The reversion to a back four left us, apart from the first 15 mins, looking defensively weak.

Hull, moved the ball much quicker and more effectively at times and I thought they were unlucky not to win and we were lucky to come away with a draw, much as a result of some good saves from Dieng.

On the question of playing out from the back, I am not against it as it is now an accepted method of retaining possession across both the PL and the Championship and is clearly here to stay.  It is all about decision making and execution and last night Dieng got it wrong.  I believe that this also occurred between Glover and Barlaser with the same outcome earlier in the season so lessons are not being learnt.  Hull also played that way last night and made a far better job of doing so.  Pedro's point that it is easier to play/manage with a back three may well be valid as we didn't seem to have similar problems when doing so.

I have not been Barlaser's greatest fan but I believe we missed him last night, the ability to be comfortable on the ball, retain possession and pick a pass was clearly missing as was an extra man in midfield.

We are also suffering in that too many players are not contributing enough; whilst Azaz and Jones combined well for our second goal they both did little else during the game with both wasteful in possession and tending to give the ball away far too easily.  This, added to another no show from Greenwood, meant we were struggling for much of the game.  My mind is now made up, no thank you we need more here and now rather than potential which may never be realised.

If we play in a similar manner and a flat back four against Ipswich, I can see us experiencing our worst defeat of the season and even if we are on our game we will struggle to get a point. 

Much work still to be done both now and during the close season if we are to be serious top six contenders next year. 😎

 

 


   
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Pedro de Espana
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@k-p-in-spain    Very good post there KP. Well delivered and thoughtful.


   
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Pedro de Espana
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Villa leading 1 nil tonight with Rodger’s starting once more. Hopefully the “Add Ons” are adding up.


   
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I'm going to take an alternate view here. 

One, how many goals have we actually conceded from passing it out from the back? That's not a rhetorical question because I actually don't know but I can't remember very many at all.

Two, the pass to O'Brien is the exact same pass that led directly to our first goal. The first goal is Dieng - O'Brien - Clarke - Engel - ELL. I don't know how many goals we have scored from passing out from the back but I would wager it's more than we have conceded.

Three, is it really less risky than kicking it long? It might look that way but look at Vardy's goal against us. Directly from a long goal kick to them scoring in about 10 seconds. I wouldn't mind betting that we have conceded as many goals from a long goal kick as a short one. 

So, you can argue that when we're under pressure like we were against Hull then you kick long to give yourself a break. It sounds reasonable until you realise that all you're doing is giving the ball back to the other team and letting them keep up the pressure. The aim of passing short from the back is to lure the other team forwards so you can stage a counter-attack. The *perfect* time to do that is when the other team is pressing for a goal because they may over-commit. Although not from a goal kick, that's how we scored our second. They were pressing really hard, Howson won a challenge, fed Azaz and 10 seconds later we had scored.

You can argue that mixing it up is important but mixing it up is probably what led to Hull's second. O'Brien wasn't expecting the pass but Sarri (who was pressing O'Brien for our first goal) spotted it and started moving before O'Brien did. The pass was slightly underhit which meant that Sarri getting the jump on O'Brien was enough to get him to the ball first. Even then, it was still an excellent finish from Sarri who had a lot to do. Mixing it up might have caused O'Brien to switch off whereas if he knows it will always go short, he will know he has to be alert.

What I will say about passing it short is that you have to have confident players who are prepared to work in tight spaces, under pressure near their own goal. Once in a while, it will go wrong but that's the price you pay. Kicking it long is a comfort blanket because if the other team scores from a clearance it doesn't look as though it's your fault.


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