The results at the bottom of the table have been relatively kind to Boro since we last won in the Premier League five games ago – albeit against a poor Swansea side. In the last four games the four clubs below us have only amassed ten points between them (Hull 4pts, Swansea 3pts, Sunderland 2pts and Palace 1pt) and have allowed us to remain four points clear of the relegation pack.
OK, it’s the nature of the drop zone that the teams down there struggle to pick up points but there is surely no need to hang around the trap door waiting for them. Three points tomorrow against a side with seemingly problems on and off the pitch could see us increase that gap to a massive seven points.
Opening up such a gap would make the compasses of Boro survival experts point in the direction of safety – especially knowing that the current bottom three have a combined goal difference of -71, which even the North Pole would find chilling.
We all know what our problem is, the world and his dog know what the problem is – and judging by his recent shopping trips – even our optimistically cautious manager knows we need to score more goals.
So Karanka has options, Negredo, Bamford, Gestede and Rhodes are all hoping to get the nod and prove their worth – though you wouldn’t be too surprised if only one of them started.
Much will depend on what formation the Boro boss chooses to go with – we’ve gone from not so long ago slavishly following the edict that wavering from 4-2-3-1 was not an option – to a whole raft of possible formations to probe the opposition and dance around the pitch to: 4-3-3, 4-1-4-1, 3-5-2 or 5-3-2. Though with every new formation it seems the available slots to select attacking players becomes fewer.
Karanka is a technical coach (sorry to break the news) and the wisdom of the football technocracy has decreed recently that when playing against a team who set up with a back three, you must follow suit. West Ham are another such team following this latest trend and our man likes to show he’s up with the best thinkers. This all sounds fine in theory but for Boro it essentially means a back five and three predominantly defensive midfielders plus two forwards. So perhaps we don’t quite have the players for that formation just yet.
Against Watford we saw Stuani join Negredo in what was arguably the Uraguayan’s most effective game for some time, but whether he gets the nod again is uncertain. I think (or even hope) we’ll see at least three attacking players starting against the Hammers – it’s a home game after all and the opposition are not a top six team.
With the current influx of strikers I fear Rhodes is in the departure lounge – Karanka said of him: “He needs to forget about whatever is going on around him because if he is distracted he could get injured” – though presumably the biggest risk of injury would be a nasty splinter from the bench.
The manager has also declared the returning Bamford won’t feature from the start – some would see that as mind games against the opposing coach but usually when Karanka makes these statements he actually means them.
Chelsea target Adama is probably due a run out on the gallops to keep him loose – and I’m sure West Ham’s defenders won’t want to see him run at them – but it won’t be as a wing-back as he’ll more likely scare the pants of Karanka with his edge-of-the-box antics in his own half.
Then there’s Downing who has pledged to stay and fight for his place – whether any of Karanka’s staff have been strategically placing Chinese take-away menus on the floor near his locker in the hope of planting subliminal messages is pure speculation – but it seems his number at Boro is not quite up yet.
So it’s extremely hard to second-guess a Karanka selection these days – I know of no person who has achieved this feat this season. Gaston is still suffering a transfer-window-long injury so won’t feature but the lively Fischer is available again. So I won’t attempt a starting XI and will leave that to others to speculate on.
So as usual add your match predictions – score, line-up, crowd and anything else that’s up for grabs – for instance: How many times will MMP scream 180 over the PA as Duzza takes to the pitch?
Werder
I cant see Rhodes getting splinters from the bench, they have comfy seats in the directors box.
The ticket plan shows lots of red and yellow/amber but no green so unless they have a block next the corner they haven’t used then it looks like a full’ish house.
On the previous thread I suggested a low scoring draw, not a preference but something we seem to be good at (good is the wrong term).
You mentioned AK as a technical coach and I remember comments on here about the fact the players don’t know everything. I listened to Christian Erikson on the radio talking about training at Spurs, they are never certain what is scheduled day to day and they find out when they get. May be tactical or drills, etc. No point asking.
Sounds familiar.
I do think that tomorrow’s game is one that we have to try our best to win. I see the ‘back three with wingbacks’ as being the most likely option and would then hope to see the midfield destroyer function limited to just De Roon and Clayton. That opens up a creative slot behind two forwards and it would be typical of AK to confound us all by playing Downing in a floating role behind Negredo and Gestede. It would certainly give us somebody who can cross the ball. However, Fischer or Traore is probably more likely to start.
The bench could have Stuani, Bamford and Traore/Fischer/Downing along with Forshaw, Leadbitter, Fry and Dimi. Plenty of flexibility there.
Anyway, I’m coming up from London with my brothers tomorrow and will be in West Stand Upper hoping to repeat my last trip for the Swansea game.
UTB
You know, I just might not be as surprised as I might have been if we don’t see Rambo rested and Rudy/Rhodes actually start, with Forshaw pulling the strings and Traore/Downing winging it. That’s the trouble with alcohol, I must stop drinking mid-afternoon!!
2-1 to the Boro. UTB
I seem to be a minority of one but I think the Boro are playing well at the moment.
2-0 to us.
Deulofeu on loan to AC Milan.
Yes it looked to be his likely destination earlier today given the news he’d set his heart on the switch to Milan and had rejected other clubs – the problem seemed to be a permanent fee that the Italian club could muster but that’s now become a loan deal. Shame, he could have been a useful player at Boro but the lure of Milan has put us out of the running on this one.
I think maybe Bamford will be pencilled in for the attacking-right position in short-term until he’s back to full match-fitness with Adama as impact sub. I think Karanka trusts Paddy and he’ll get his game time to prove himself.
Well following my recent form I’m going to carry on and not predict any score
I’ll go with Three at the back and Traore to start with stuani and Negredo up front
Leadbitter to drop down to bench after a few hard games and still working his way back to full fitness
Stewy on the bench Fischer on left and De Roon Forshaw and Clayton midfield
One nil to us lot.
I haven’t the foggiest who’ll start or finish. So errrrrrm, Negredo.
I hope it’ll be three at the back with Fabio and George wide. Hopefully only two in the middle with three up top. Who the front three will be is anyone’s guess.
More likely though will be three DM’s with a front two one of whom will be nailed on Negredo. Regardless of the set up or tactics a win would be very welcome and with a bit of good fortune opening a 7 point cushion.
Heart says the best performance of the season with a decent 2 or 3 goal victory against a disjointed Hammers. Head however says a dreary soul destroying 0-0. Crowd 31,374.
Boro 2 – 1 West Ham. I just hope that we shackle Carroll. The team? Who Knows? AK is selecting it.
UTB
John
This one has Boro nil written all over it, particularly given the continued absence of Ramirez due to ‘injury’. The question is, can we keep Carroll at bay for another 0-0.
On another note, even the machines think that we are going down!
http://offsideplanet.com/2017/01/07/super-computer-calculated-final-premier-league-table-will-look-like/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=LarryVellaOffsidePlanetAFF
Stoke have signed Berrahinioooo. I suppose that makes Bojangles more likely.
Or niot.
Listened to the Bamford interview on the facelessbook interview on MFC website.
Unlike the Gazette it is quite straightforward because there are no adverts for Acklam sewing club or Saltburn seaweed therapy that keep popping up and blocking the content.
He is as grounded as he always seemed, there again he is well known in the East Midlands for being sensible. Wish him the best because it would do no harm if he does well.
No doubt some will be happy if he fails.
No prediction again from me, only hoping for a decent performance and result.
Carrol to score so we wiil have to get two to win. AK will be true to form, five at the back, three mid- fielders, looking to sneak a goal, then depending when Carrol scores, having to think about subs. That will give him a headache
Still disappointed about Rhodes. Bamford will get plenty of game time to prove AK right . Even on the wing, where Rhodes could have been tried.
2-0 Boro
Stewie to start.
0.0
Certain starter
Valdes
Friend
Gibson
Chambers
Espinosa
Fabio
Negrado
Pick 4 from the 16 outfield players left in the squad
Crowd 32,062
2-1 Boro ( Stewy and Gestede )
Hope Len’s correct in his prediction. However, the runes were dusted off this mornin & a chocken gave up the ghosty so that it’s entrails could be read, & the news was that a brain numbing sideways passin passion killin event would AGAIN take place, infront of the ever increasingly tired eyes of the beholding unwashed gathered in the sacred stadium.
0-0 or 1-1 at a stretch.
No doubt many are wishing that the runes will fail 😉 Truth amongst unbelievers is always in abundance. Lol
Atn 33332
Question- If Blunderland had bought Gestede & Biff Bam instead of ourselves would we in all honesty feel worried at the prospect? Answers on a postcard to …. hmmmm…. FD Solitary Post Office Outer Hebrides Seagull Island Scotland PO Box 0001
Just askin like
I am still not convinced about ‘I want to stay and fight for my place’ Downing. To me it is more a case of he didn’t get what he expected. I don’t think AK will be persuaded by this change of heart either. You don’t (can’t) switch commitment to the cause on and off whenever the wind changes: you are either part of the team with all the shared objectives or you are for yourself. I am afraid Downing’s behaviour, demeanour and performances for too long have betrayed the latter. At best I see him starting this one on the bench.
As for the starting line-up, well I can’t see our Paddy starting, but guaranteed on the bench and likely to come on for 20 minutes or so regardless. Valdes, Friend, Gibson, Chambers, Forshaw, Clayton, DeRoon and the Beast all nailed on starters.
I suspect Stuani will be in there, but will it be Espinosa or Fabio or both? Depending if we go 3,4, or 5 across the back, then Fischer to start on the left.
I have a good feeling about this today, I hope that is not a bad omen as I usually end up with predictions that are oh so wrong, but I fancy us to win by two clear goals, 3-1. (Stuani opening in the first half and Gestede and Bamford coming on and grabbing one a-piece in the second.)
COB.
Powmill
“As for the starting line-up, well I can’t see our Paddy starting, but guaranteed on the bench and likely to come on for 20 minutes or so”
I’m assuming that was a typo surely and you meant “2 minutes”, when has a Boro Sub of late got 20 minutes to change a game?
Joking aside can you imagine Burnley fans berating Dyche if Bamford did come on and nick a winner? “Typical Burnley” (and “Typical Palace” and “Typical Norwich” probably) would be in meltdown. Lets hope his return to the place of his best restores his best.
I agree entirely with your comments on SD and as much as I want one of our own to do well he has just not performed. I am surprised that he has not realised that the writing is on the wall under AK.
Further to the formation debate – In the guardian this morning Louise Taylor has gone for Boro with the same set-up (3-5-2) and starting line-up as against Watford – though rather curiously she’s gone for the Hammers to play 4-2-3-1.
I think West Ham have quite often played 3-4-2-1, which perhaps is also a better approach to three at the back for Boro given our likely midfield is more defensive-minded. It just wouldn’t make sense for Boro to play three at the back at home if West Ham didn’t – so not sure on the Louise’s thinking on that one.
It’s difficult to predict the team when we don’t even know which system AK will play.
He might stick with wing backs if he does not like what he sees among his creative midfield options. He can then have five defenders with the wing backs free to attack, his three swarm/smother/disrupt midfielders, and two strikers, which gets Stuani on the pitch somewhere he can do the most damage to our opponents.
This system does give us an even more resilient look in the sense that you have a full eight outfield players who are very, very competitive and difficult to play against. There is no-one it would be easy to get past among them, whereas Traore or Fischer would provide a weaker point to attack. And Negredo is also very effective if called back into defence for set pieces.
Against this, the system didn’t help us to perform too competitively in the second half at Watford, when we weren’t overwhelmed, but were lucky to hold on for the point.
With two strikers you have the option of Gestede coming on for Negredo, and Rhodes/Bamford potentially available as subs for the Stuani second striker role playing off the big man.
If PB gets on at nil-nil at the end it would be made for him and I wouldn’t be too surprised to see him deliver the three points…
Boronurk
It seems to me that all our team forecasts need reshaping, because three at the back has arrived and is here to stay. As an added incentive for us, we possess three very good central defenders, plus two very speedy wing backs who can do the business. Add in a good group of defensive midfielders, and we can enjoy watching the manager try to fashion an attack out of a decent group of forwards.
As usual the opposition is a good strong side who will not be easily beaten, so, fingers crossed.
Presumably you mean it now allows him to pick two from Negredo, Bamford, Stuani, Rhodes, Gestede, Gaston, Adama, Fischer, Downing and anyone else who arrives in the window.
I was 3 gols out last time so will go for 0 0 and hope to be wrong again!
My AKRTS ( AK Random Team Selector) has come up the the following
Valdez
Bernandino Chamber Gibson
Fabio Clayton Forshaw De Roon Friend
Adama Negrado Downing
Subs will be at 80 – Stuani for Clayton
85 LEadbitter for De Roon
90 Bamford for Downing
CRowd 33333
UTB
I think your AKRTS is on the blink – you’ve got 12 players in your team!
Oh oh I hoped nobody would notice I’d put 12!in might win then
We were unlucky ball hit bar bounced down didn’t cross the line
Keeper made 3 good saves should have had Gestede on from start to cover Carroll for our corners
Why move Traore from right wing to left
Forshaw not at his best today or Friend
Chambers and Clayton had good games but did chambers lose Carrol for the second goal
Why wait for so long for subs when Stuani was not effective?
Without Gaston we are not inventive at all need two more players for creating and wing play
Traore had his best game for us but and put some good crosses in but no one got on the end of them
Great piece Werdermouth are you AV in disguise!
Without any creativity in the side then I fear this is another low scoring match.
Whilst I like Len’s positivity I think it is more likely to be 0-0 than a 2-0 to us but we all live in hope.
I see us setting up as 3-5-2 with Negredo nailed on to start supported by Stuani & Fischer. Rhodes in the stand and SD on the bench.
Crowd 33,127 and 4 180s
CoB
🔴 Thanks for the double compliment – but others will vouch that I’m not a master in disguise – Werdermouth
I think that the management should be congratulated on at least two strong additions to the squad during the transfer window.
Take a bow Boronurk and Boro Beckys Dad.
Excellent analyses above by Boronurk and plato btw. Looks like that’s the way things are going.
RR. I know what you mean about the 2 minute or 20 minute substitution question. I reckon he will want to get Bamford on with enough time to begin getting up to full match fitness as soon as possible. So I am sticking my neck out and predicting AK will make a change with around 20 to go.
I wonder what odds I could get down at Ladbrokes for that 😉
🔴 Autocorrected!
Danged predictive texting…mi items should say minute
Probably only had two minutes to type it 😉
Bilic quite often goes with three at the back and two wing backs, Antonio and Ogbonna most likely. They struggled against Palace in the first half last week then hauled Ogbonna off and put Byram on in the second and went 442.
My guess is that they may stick with the 442 that they comprehensively finished Palace off 3-0 with (especially if they have as many injuries as they claim) just to keep it structurally simple. They will also like as not anticipate Negredo to be isolated so why waste three CB’s on one lone striker.
I think AK should mix it from the start rather than let them settle into the game and go with same set up as Watford with two up top. Personally I think its time to give Negredo a rest but that won’t happen. If AK goes with three CB’s we are not so dependant upon Negredo getting back to defend set pieces so for me I’d spring a surprise and go for a twin pacy (in comparison to Alvaro) outlet rather than a rumbling lone bulldozer up front. Traore and Stuani?
I agree with most of the comments about Downing . Well past it . Only here for his pension. Karanka has got revenge after Downings spat and chair throwing .
I think we’ll go with 352, as it allows AK to maximise the solidity whilst Gaston is out. With that in mind expect Leadbitter, De Roon and Forshaw through the middle and Gestede and Negredo up front. I think we might go for an uncharacteristic aerial bombardment.
I’d love to see Traore play, but it definitely wouldn’t be in a 352.
Whoops on the AKRTS model, I must have programmed it wtong, this IT stuff beats me!
Right then, error corrected and Downing removed!
1-1 with Gibson for Boro and Carroll for the Hammers the scorers and 31,680.
Rumour in the concourse is that Chambers is RB with a flat back 4 of Chambers Espinosa Gibson and Friend. Hmmm not comfortable with that its maybe an “anti Carroll” overkill device. Can see Antonio dancing rings round that.
Worse though is that Traore is left with Stuani right and the untouchable Negredo up front. So it looks 433 with de Roon, Clayton and Forshaw central.
Not sure that is the selection and positioning most would have chosen. Lets hope its just rumour and nonsense.
0-3 West Ham im afraid. One shot on target. A dribbled effort from distance in the 85th minute. Am hoping I’m eating my own words at 90 minutes.
AK’s got a cunning plan.
He spent days and nights analysing, considering the options, crunching the numbers & studyin the runes. What’s he come up with 3-5-2/3-6-1, how’s about 4-5-1?
Well, he’s the man! Right or wrong the gameplan is set. Will the players have buy-in? Will they ‘give it ago-go’!
Strap yerself in. Hold tight to yer box of popcorn for it’s all about to be revealed.
Is the 1 point policy enough?
UTB
Yes another exciting afternoon at the riverside is in store. It will be just like Liverpool vs Swansea but without the shots or the goals!
Well that selection is a surprise. Hope I am totally wrong with my initial thoughts.
Chambers has never performed well at RB and Traore on the left did not work last so probably won´t this time, Good old favourites Stuani and Negrado again.
I guess we will just have to see out it unfolds….although not helped by Swansea winning at Liverpool.
So 4-3-3 it is – hopefully Adama is on the right and Stuani more left like against Watford – despite the trepidation I’m still confident Boro will have enough to win this one – it only takes an early goal to change the whole outlook and then who knows.
My post-match graphic has enough room to accommodate four separate Boro scorers (call me an optimist) so hopefully today is the day that they’ll ruin my graphic!
So 3-1 to Boro and on the path to PL security.
And West Ham score.
Although we’ve gone into the break 2-1 down I’d have to say it’s been a pulsating first half and thoroughly enjoyable – Boro have looked good going forward but unusually a bit open at the back and we seem to be afraid of Andy Carroll as much as they are of Adama. Good move by Boro for the goal.
Unforuanatly Werder Carroll scores goal Adama does’t. Chamders at RB is like a sieve. Cannot seeing us getting only a point from this
Been wheeling soil to fill in where the trees were removed. You just can’t rely on posters, two Carroll and we trail 2-1.
Swansea winning at Anfield is a gut wrenching result. I think back to Coventry beating Liverpool in the three point deduction season.
Come on lads, a few minutes to go.
This very, very poor result in a game we should’ve had the ambition to win has exposed the folly of Karanka’s ‘let’s draw as many games as we can and we’ll get enough points’ strategy. The fact is this team is simply not good enough for the PL and unfortunately, neither is the ‘manager’ or ‘head coach’ or whatever.
Two shots on target in a home game tells the tale…dominating possession is meaningless without end product and Boro quite clearly have no end product.
If I was Gibbo I would put on hold any big money moves this window – after all we don’t want to be lumbered with high earners in the Championship…perhaps that why we bought Gestede and Bamford, to help us with a promotion push next season?
Swansea are now right up our backsides and many more results like today’s will see us firmly entrenched in the bottom three..
Could this be a defining result for us and is the writing on the wall. If we can’t take at least a point from a mid table team at home then where exactly will the points come from to keep us up?
I listened to the game and we seemed to look good going forward but yet again could only muster one goal.
I do not see Gestede or Bamford making a difference as we still need one or two individuals who can open up a defence and provide quality balls.
Disappointed and frustrated and difficult not to become resigned to slippping into the relegation slots in the coming weeks.
Sorry for the negativity but that’s how I feel after listening to this game.
A disappointing result and I will await comments from those that saw the game before assessing. However, I feel a bit like KP above does in that we needed a point at least.
In the games I have seen, we do miss a player who can open up a defence. I thought thaT we had cracked it after the Swansea game, not so sure now.
I hope that the players can turn it round with AK picking the right team and formation. It was always going to be a long hard season, I fear it has become even harder as long as it doesn’t turn into out as “the winter of our discontent”
As a long term fan, I am used to “typical Boro” and suffering the slings and arrows of fortune!
I watched this pulsating game online and although we lost 3-1 the last goal was in injury time when we were chasing an equaliser. Overall I thought we played quite well and were probably the better side – with Adama looking dangerous and with an end product – unlike many other Boro midfielders. Unfortunately the goals we gave away were down to slack defending and perhaps Valdes could have done a bit more but don’t think the scoreline reflected our performance. I’ll await Redcar Red’s match report with interest…
Oh Dear , comments made by Karanka criticising the crowd won’t have gone down well….was he right / wrong ? what do you think ?
To me he has been losing the crowd over the last weeks and I think this will finally put the tin hat on it. Gibbo needs to
look quickly for an alternative who may be able to keep us up because Karanka is only taking us one way. Once the crowd is lost it usually stays lost barring miracles, and I honestly can’t see any of those coming our way with the way Karanka plays…
Oh Dear indeed!!
Karanka has got it totally wrong the Boro crowd were supporting the team vocally from the off and all through the game
People only started to go when we went 3 1 down with a minute or so to go
How can a crowd dictate they want long balls?
You can guess what the only balls was!
I have been one of Karanka’s biggest supporter for past few years but to turn on the crowd at such a crucial point in the season is madness
I actually thought we played well apart from Bernardo and then Chambers letting Carrol have free headers
I thought Valdez should have got to one of the goals
SG will not have liked that outburst by Karanka and it sounded like a death wish
We don’t like to be dictated too and then told we were near relegation and it is all down to him where we are now. What about the money SG has given him to spend ??
I think he has shot himself in the head not the foot and I would be surprised if he survived this……
But who do we get to replace him and his Spanish coaches??
Well I seem to remember a good coach at Man City Spanish speaking I wonder where he is now???
Not like me to criticise but I fire back when attacked needlessly
Oops starting to slip into the relegation zone who would have thought after all we have won 4 games,,
Observations:
Chambers right back no no no..
Traore needs to be in the team every week even if its in goal , he is our only creative player, terrorised them on the right first half so lets put him on the left…doh ,no wait lets sell him to Chelsea obviously they know nothing about a decent footballer.
Our forwards show no urgency couple of times if Stuani was switched on we could have benefitted from some good lead up
play.( this is where Rhodes would be ideal).
Foreshaw seemed to be the only midfielder trying (his you know what out )
Lets put on a forward who has only been here 5 minutes, should inspire the other bench sitters, providing you even get on the bench !
The alarm bells are really ringing now and observing Karankas body language and that of his support staff , serious problems among the coaching staff.
And finally if any apologists come on and say we were unlucky, no we were lucky because Westam should have put another 2 sitters at least away ..
And as for having a stronger squad at the end of the transfer window they had better get a move on..Snoddgrass to me is the only immediate new player who can make an inpact, sorry but we have no time for projects, action now before we slip back into the mire…
UTB.
Criticising the great unwashed that should endear you to the fans…Not a good career move…hasta lavista baby!..excuse my attempt at Spanish maybe better pidgeon english…Ofbah..
Agree with Werdermouth’s assessment of proceedings. An entertaining game where I thought we deserved a point but you don’t always get what you deserve.
I’ve said before, it’s always risky for a Manager to criticise the fans. Overall, I thought they got behind the team but he maybe judged it by some vociferous dissenters in the West Stand berating Steve Gibson.
Time for calm rather than kneejerk reactions.
UTB
No doubt someone will suggest that there were “positive” signs in today”s game. There is nothing positive about a 3-1 home defeat and only 2 shots on target despite over 60% of
the ball. The writing is on the wall that unless AK finds more goals from the team we are going down.
It seems that AK has turned on the fans today in his post-match comments suggesting the atmosphere was “awful” and influenced the way the team played. Not sure it’s a sensible move to have a go at the fans for the performance of the team as they have been unbelievably tolerant of AK’s team selection, negative tactics and bizarre substitutions so far this season. Alienating them is a dangerous thing to do especially when you are not getting results and you have just been thumped 3-1 at home. If he loses that fans then he is toast.
I can see Charltongate again here! A slippery slope when you start to blame the fans for the players performance. They are paid a shed load of money which most of the supporters can only dream of throughout their working life – not forgetting the job position in Tesside – so should be up for the job whatever the paying public think or say.
A bad workman blames his tools and whilst I have been broadly behind AK, he is starting to test my patience now. It is similar to the comments after the Watford home defeat when he blamed Watford for not letting us play the way we like! Doh, that is what the opposition do.
The question I ask myself is what would I do if I were in SG position? That becomes a bit tricky…… Option 1 – get rid now before too late but can you guarantee tat the next incumbent would be any better
Option 2 – stick with what you have and tell him to shut up and sort it out
Option 3 – bring in an adviser a la Terry Venables with Robbo
Decisions decisions
Read my comments at 2:30 once I saw the team sheet. That’s how loads of fans will have felt.
As a manager if you put out a negative team when you are struggling to score goals then is it any wonder the fans are quiet and frustrated.
Ak can blame the fans all he wants but if he picked a positive team with the intention of winning a football match he would find the fans unilaterally behind him.
Unfortunately he does not pick a team to win, safety first and anything else is a bonus. This has got worse and worse as the season has worn on.
Two shots on target again today. Admittedly I predicted one but then traore had a really good game. Take him out and his ability to create something out of nothing and I doubt we’d have had one.
My main concern at present is that we may be selling players who under another manager could be fantastic. Who’s to say that Rhodes, downing etc mightn’t be quality players under another manager.
Instead we pay 6 million for villas fourth choice striker who can only play with wingers even though we don’t have any or at least we don’t play them. And bamford who ak reckons is better on the right wing. Another gem from the attacking guru aitor karanka! And he wonders why fans are struggling to find the voice to support a side that averages under 2.5 shots on target a game.
It is you ak and your dire tactics. You are sucking the life out of the club.
The fans were very vocal today in supporting the team and how a crowd can convey tactics is beyond me
Scapegoats, OFB!!
I’d rather not see or hear of it at all.
Implosions – feels at this moment they’re not far away. I wish it were not so.
Manuel Luis Pellegrini Ripamonti (Spanish pronunciation: [maˈnwel peleˈɣɾini]; born 16 September 1953) is a Chilean professional football manager and former footballer and is currently the head coach of Chinese Super League side Hebei China Fortune. As a coach, he has managed teams mostly in Spain, Argentina, Chile and Ecuador. A qualified civil engineer and former footballer, after retiring as a player, he moved into coaching in his native Chile and subsequently Argentina. Pellegrini has won national leagues in four different countries.
It’s gettin somewhat stark now & when you lose at home & criticise your fans something makes you wonder, are we seeing the demise of the AK reign?
Maybe yes, maybe no! However, we’re just over half way through the season now & wins have been & are sparse. The one point a game average for success is stating to slip. More worrying is AK’s mental strength. It’s as much a test of his resilliance as it is his team’s. If he begins to buckle the players will know & confidence in him will evaporate rapidly.
If results continue to go against us I predict a statement from the club saying AK & the Boro have parted by mutual agreement – it hasn’t happened yet but as I say it could & I reckon after the next 3 or 4 games IF we dont bag a few precious points.
Analysing & crunching numbers is one thing, motivating players who are grasping for any type of win is another.
I noted with interest that AK said fans influenced the players towards to end of the game & how he didn’t like that – god bless the old control complex even when you’re losing.
Hmmmmm!
Hadn’t read AK’s comments before my previous post. Hope it was just heat of the moment as, otherwise, he does risk the fans turning on him. Bilic’s take on this seems sensible. Crowds are demanding, particularly when there are minutes left, you are chasing an equaliser and the ball is being played around at the back. If we can’t lump the ball upfield/ into the box, why was Gestede brought on? We’d all prefer to play football on the ground but, sometimes, you have to choose Route One.
UTB
As an adult and sensible person I turned off the Boro+ feed and stomped out chuntering. Actually we needed to go shopping. I needed stubbies in case I burnt my hand again.
I haven’t listened to any interviews or match reports so I wont comment on the match.
In isolation, never criticise home fans. It is not a good idea, plus, the table never lies.
Well, an unexpectedly open game. Not sure if that was any change in style from us or the fact that West Ham are happy to attack and leave spaces behind them. They certainly looked more threatening going forward but we had our moments. De Roon seemed to be playing a bit closer to Negredo as well and we got plenty of men into the box at times.
I thought Traore had a fantastic game, yes you could argue there was still no end product but he really deserved one of his crosses across the box to be tapped in. He looks a threat every time he gets the ball and I think we have to accept that sometimes it will go horribly wrong, and sometimes he will have an awful game – but the goals and assists will come.
Stuani did what Stuani does, makes a nuisance of himself and causes trouble in the box – great goal and he very nearly forced them into scoring an own goal, how that stayed out I’ll never know.
The defence was as shaky as we’ve seen for a while – a lot of it seemed to come down Chambers’ side – he actually looks better going forward than defending which is odd for a centre half. Friend didn’t have the best of games, particularly with his distribution. He is clearly a leader and someone you want on the pitch, but Fabio must be feeling a bit aggrieved to be on the bench. Espinosa made some great tackles (though you wonder if this was down to him being badly positioned in the first place) but again, his distribution wasn’t great.
Carroll’s first goal was so easy, I was watching him as the ball came in – he had a teammate in front of him to effectively block off his marker, he was able to get a good run at the ball and no-one got anywhere near him.
As for AK’s comments – well, I can understand him being frustrated with the negativity of some of our fans. We have come a long way and we are still in a good position. We are still on track to stay up. Yet he gets a lot of criticism. I think he feels that there should be more togetherness between the fans and him after what he has done for the club.
And there was frustration in the crowd towards the end – the ‘attack, attack, attack’ chants and the groans when we were passing it around. He’s obviously translated that as wanting the team to play long balls – which they actually started doing for a bit (I thought it was a deliberate tactic as it did cause some problems).
However, he didn’t help himself – the substitutions could easily have been made 10 minutes earlier. Stuani looked shattered, Negredo wasn’t being particularly effective and we could have sacrificed one of the CMs. As others have alluded to on here, even if you think things are going well and we look like scoring, bringing a sub on gives the whole crowd a lift. At 65 minutes, I thought we needed that.
But – if the team is losing, the manager has to accept that the fans are going to get agitated and he has to cope with that. Criticising the fans afterwards, however much it was lost in translation isn’t going to help. The players and the manager now need to reflect on the match, and the last few – going back to the Burnley game, we’ve managed to pick up 2 points from 5 games now – and we should really have had quite a few more. We can’t just say we were unlucky so we’ve got to ask why we haven’t got more – and what we can do about it. We still have the gap to the bottom 3, but we could really do with a win to give everyone a lift.
I’m not sure if this is a Borodias poster but it’s succinctly put:
https://antivixers.wordpress.com/2017/01/21/if-karanka-wants-a-war-with-the-fans-he-can-have-one-but-it-will-only-end-one-way/
I’ve just put Redcar Red’s Riverside Report up live – so feel free to have a read and continue with the post-match dissection…
https://diasboro.club/2017/01/21/boro-west-ham-match-report/
Not only is it insulting to blame the fans for the way the team is playing but it is also patronising in the extreme to continuously remind the fans after a damaging defeat that they have to remember where the team was when he was appointed manager.
Boro fans are only too well aware of where the team was and where it had been for too long which is why they are so desperate to stay in the Premier League.
What AK needs to understand is that, while most fans are grateful to him for getting us up to the promised land, football is a results game and what is most important is results today rather than last season or the season before or the season before that. There is no room in football for sentiment about managers and results in the past when a team is currently struggling to get a result and is at very high risk of being relegated back to the Championship. It is a bit like the Captain of the Titanic telling the passengers that they should be grateful how far the ship has come under his command just after it has hit the iceberg.
I doubt that AK’s serious error of judgement in criticising the fans will result in him being sacked but I think it is the beginning of the end. A few more poor results and badly chosen words from him will see him gone.
So, Aitor thinks that we need to remember where we were before he arrived. I’m well aware of that, but as with most things in life, it is all about context.
Karanka was a rookie manager who has been handsomely backed by his chairman. The following is a list of players he has bought over the last two seasons:
Jordan Rhodes £10m
Stewart Downing £6.72m
David Nugent £4m
Cristhian Stuani £3.4m
Julien de Sart £2.2m
Carlos de Pena £2m
Marten de Roon £12.75m
Adama Traoré £6.80m
Rudy Gestede £6m
Patrick Bamford £6m
Viktor Fischer £4.25m
Antonio Barragán £3.40m
That’s before you add in expensive wages amd signing on fees for free transfers (Ramirez and Valdes) amd a host of expensive loanees.
The question is not just where would we be without Karanka, but where could we be if we had another manager who had made better use of these resources? How many rookie managers are so handsomely backed? He is acheiving about the minimum we should expect given such backing.
In his first full season he fell out with Higgy, last season a few of the players, now its the fans.
Karanka blames everyone but himself for his failures. He essentially has one way of playing which for the latter part of last season and the majority of this is being easily countered by opposition managers. He lacks the ability to adapt.
I think that Aitor will be a very succesful coach, particularly in drilling defences. But as a manager at the top level he is sadly lacking. It’s not just our players who had to make the step up this season, our manager had to as well. Sadly. As each week goes by, it appears that he can’t hack it.
I’m not a regular poster nor do I necessarily read every single post, but I do think for myself as most if not all people on this forum do, it’s one of the many things that marks us out from the pack.
I sense the beginning of a turning of the tide for AK yesterday, one that has been coming for a while, driven firstly by his tactics to grind out survival. This was a bit marmite in that while unexciting the occasional win kept us in survival mode, which most of us wanted in year one. There was hope. However cometh the transfer window and things took a turn for the worse, with dubious recruitment compounded by messages from within the camp that all was not necessarily rosy. We don’t know the cause, was it the players themselves wanting more attacking tactics? It’s noticeable that having had a settled defence for the first part of the season and pretty well similar tactics each week, AK has started to play around. And ignoring the match reports but looking at the results, it isn’t working. Finally, the golden rule with any club is not to attack the fans. They are there before, and long after, any manager. The Boro faithful who travelled far and wide in the promotion season are entitled to their say. It may be uncomfortable but it’s their right and the manager cannot turn on them. That way lies the end.
Personally I think the end is coming, but given the huge support AK has been given in the back room, and the major Spanish influence, it will not be a simple move, SG has overcommitted in my view and made AK difficult to remove without MASSIVE disruption on and off the pitch. The gamble is, stick or twist. I see SG sticking right now, and twisting in the summer, or when relegation is inevitable. I don’t see AK staying, it’s a matter of when (of course it always is, I just think that ‘when’ is close now)
I think that despite the potential upheaval a new manager would have in the current players the means to change the downward spiral, we mostly have decent players who have been drilled to have good housekeeping habits, who could be motivated to deliver results with the right selection, formation and inclination. Unless AK goes off and has a ‘Dark night of the soul’ I think he may also cash in before his reputation is too sullied, and walk………
Sigh. UTB. Not very positive today. ‘If you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with’ also resonated in football, we always want what we can’t have, but right now…….I can’t!!
Smoggy Paul
After the game I was quite upbeat even after a loss I thought there were signs we were getting it together
Come that press conference and now I feel hurt I may have a soft outer shell but don’t think the fans deserved any criticism
Perhaps the translation of his worlds and command of the language made it more blunt but he did not look a happy man
No I don’t want to get rid of him but he has upset a lot of people who accept what he has brought to the club but we are in this together
Excellent post Smoggy and, yet again, I find myself agreeing with BP.