Hammers silence Boro with unseasonal Carroll singing

by Redcar Red, posted in Uncategorized

I’ve paused for thought before writing. Part of me could see a lot of running and huffing and puffing but deep down I knew what I was watching was dross. A great game for Hammers fans or the neutrals but as a Boro fan two attempts on target sums up everything there is to say about AK’s 2017 Boro.

Before Kick Off I posted rumours about the supposed line up. I had hoped it wasn’t the case but unfortunately when the official sheet came out it was true. Now I’m no expert or professional but when a team line up has me scratching my head then I’m sure Slaven Bilic must have been smiling and the way the Hammers came out of the blocks confirmed it.

Before the game we heard all week how much a threat Carroll was so I figured that the selected back line was intended to diffuse that threat. Perhaps at Rockcliffe they had practised all week in dealing with high balls pinged into the box. I say perhaps because there was little evidence to suggest that this defence was prepared in any way judging by the ease of Carrol’s first goal. Espinosa was simply brushed aside as Carroll strode and rose to power home.

In the muddle, sorry middle of the park we had the usual slow, mono paced sideways shuffle. Zero creativity, zero guile and zero craft. There was lots of running, chasing and snapping tackles but nothing of offensive value. Out left George was offering a threat going forwards, Traore had his most complete game and was MOM but Stuani (woeful, defensively) did try a few runs but lacks the quality at this level and is no Ramirez. To his credit he popped up and scored our goal, no surprise really as a lot of us feel his best role is as central striker.

Talking of central strikers once again we had Mr Undroppable, the Teflon coated Krypton protected Negredo. I’m not sure if the guy is just bone idle, lazy and disinterested or we just have no tactics that play to his strengths. I’m fast approaching the point where I don’t really care. Once again however he remained on the pitch when he was our worse player and by some considerable margin. Stuani was hooked for Bamford when he was at least running around, trying to challenge, scrapping and fighting whilst Negredo struck his by now famous arms outstretched pose asking why the ball wasn’t arriving at his feet. That pose is becoming a bit predictable and annoying especially when some movement in situations would not go amiss.

The front pairing were not a pairing, in fact I’m not even sure they were even on speaking terms such was the disconnect at times. With the midfield looking agricultural our best opportunity was probably going to come from a set piece. Wrong! Forshaw’s corners were so poor I would question if he had actually ever taken them before in his entire career. No technique just a hit and hope, no intended target just woefully placed kicks that offered nothing and again not for the first time no routine worked out between those on the pitch. How this is supposed to be acceptable at Premiership level is way beyond me.

Forshaw took his chance and grabbed it earlier in the season, he now looks as though he is either very tired or his new found adulation has gone to his head. The lad needs resting but more than that three negative dull, drab sideways passing automatons is now clearly one too many.

Midfield bereft of any creativity, a defence that couldn’t cope with the one thing that AK had warned about all week and a Striker starved of supply and looking like he was as sick as those of us watching a game with nothing to lift Boro fans off their seats in the Hammers 18 yard box. At half time AK needed to rethink things, perhaps pull the uninspiring Negredo off and Espinosa who was sublime in some tackles and then equally frustrating in his distribution and putting Chambers and Gibson back together again and bring Fabio on.  At the restart however nothing changed, just the same old, same old.

It was clear as the game went on that we were not going to open up West Ham. Considering the month of January was supposed to be our great opportunity for points on the board and considering Swansea picking up 3 points just before KO this performance offered nothing to suggest that AK has sussed out when to make substitutions let alone select playing personnel for a game we needed to win or at least look like we wanted to win. Drawing tactically is great but it’s a flawed strategy.

The home fans in their frustration at the puerile sideways and backwards passing let their feelings be known. “Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack”, I’m not sure it made that much difference as our midfield was so pedestrian that their Zimmer frames must have been rusting in the encircling icy Riverside mist.

Inevitably in injury time West Ham broke away and missed an opportunity but managed to resurrect the opportunity and had another go and scored their third. In those dying seconds West ham managed to create the same amount of chances that we had done all game despite running about a lot.

The transfer window hasn’t shut yet and any incoming players will have to acclimatise and learn to get back, defend and learn to pass sideways before they will be trusted to start and no chance if they are either a Keeper or a Central striker who seem to be under a different set of video rules to the rest of the squad. Chambers, Friend and Traore at least tried, Stuani tried his best and at least took his goal when the chance came but the rest of them were very poor.

Today the Riverside atmosphere had a different air. Beforehand when Bamford’s return was announced there was a generous and polite appreciation then when Gestede was announced, nothing just indifference. The performance which followed was a further tipping point, it was rank and purgatory to watch a Boro side with nothing to transform or redeem themselves and worse still a Manager who clearly hasn’t a clue how to change things and worst of all doesn’t recognise it.

We have had indifferent performances before and certainly much worse than this one but this was the one when the fans started to turn. AK I subsequently noticed has had a go at the fans tonight, well that’s his opinion and he is indeed entitled to it as are those fans. He complained about fans just wanting the ball humped up the pitch and that not being our game, fair enough but who bought Gestede, why, and who brought him on to play up top with Negredo late in the game taking off one of his defensive midfield snails? Was that to play a passing game to Rudy’s gifted feet?

Aitor says we need to remember where we were and that’s the problem, we do and we also remember how we got there.

189 thoughts on “Hammers silence Boro with unseasonal Carroll singing”

  2. Great report as always RR, thank you.

    We have been lacking any attacking force for some time and maybe we need to realise that AK is not going to change. That will be his and our downfall. We have a goal difference equal to west Ham in 10th for goodness sake!

    I have said it before but to win you need to score goals and we seem unable to create chances.

    Can it be turned around? Who knows, AK Doesn’t appear to either which is a worry. I don’t profess to know much at all but years of watching football tells me that you need to change things.

    It was Einstein who said that the definition of stupidity is doing the same things and expecting a different result, sound familiar?

    Ok, we are in 16th and I will take that come the end of the season ( my prediction at the start) although I am not sure we can sustain that. A point a game is the minimum, teams have gone down with that, and Iit’s hard to see where the points will come from.

    I will go back to my Shiraz now!

  3. That’s it for Karanka. He’s finished. It’s only about the timing now. He knows it, we know it, and more importantly Steve Gibson knows it. He’s as good as gone.

    It’s just a matter of Gibbo deciding how and when the parting of the ways can be smoothest and which point in time will give us the best chance of surviving.

    A manager turning on the fans is always the last nail in his own coffin.

    In all honesty, he should have gone after the Charlton game. But the (correct) decision then was that our best chance of promotion was to keep him on.

    We eventually achieved that aim by the skin of our teeth. But with the squad we had and the money spent in the summer and again in January, we should have won the league with games to spare and not had to bite our nails till the very last minute of the season to go up on goal difference.

    Defeats at home to palace, watford and west ham are just not good enough. Spirited performances again Utd, City, Arsenal and Chelsea brought us 2 points. Swansea topped that in one game today at Anfield and scored 3 goals doing it.
    When we are 2-1 down to West Ham at home, we know it’s game over. There’s no way we’ll score 3!

    Expect a “mutual” announcement in the near future.

  4. Wow – AK’s outburst against the fans is extraordinary. I’m not sure if it’s even unprecedented. Many managers have criticised fans before, but the manner in which he did so is petulant, defensive and insecure. It betrays his anxiety at his failure to deliver and doubt at his tactics.

    I will be quite surprised if he’s still in charge on 31 January after this. The question is, who the bloody hell else can we get? Warner from Huddersfield?

  5. Thanks RR for sitting through all of that and for the very well-written report which has expressed precisely what many will be feeling. I have wanted AK out for some time, his unprofessional and frankly pathetic outburst after the match today will have many more feeling as I do, I am sure.

  6. And for Pete’s sake don’t start suggesting managers like Pearson or anyone we need togetherness and AK needs to apologise or clarify his intentions.

    If you turn on the fans you are dead ask Mourinho

  7. You know after reflection on today’s events I think Karanka has taken things a step too far and I’ve been one of his greatest supporters.

    I don’t like anyone giving unjust criticism of fans who have seen poor performances and have sat in silence no booing no chants but I think tonight there will be a few like me who do not like what we’ve heard from our manager.

    What a time to lose his temper with us I thought we were all in it together!!!

    1. AK’s swipe at the fans blaming them saying “playing in that way we didn’t create one chance” was delusional. We haven’t created chances all season, we create the lowest amount of chances in the Premiership, that stat is solely down to AK not the fans.

  8. News on twitter says Karanka walked out Thursday and didn’t stay with team last night like they usually do.

    It only a rumour but he sounds like a man under pressure and he didn’t look happy today ….

      1. RR

        Rumour is exactly that Downing expecting Karanka to go so that is why he is staying

        Unfortunately this is getting to be a repeat of last season Karankagate

  9. Even I cannot defend AK for that. His mentor, by pointing the finger everywhere but himself, engineered his own downfall at Chelsea. The worst thing of all is that it doesn’t have to be this way – for Boro and AK. But he’s his own worst enemy.

  10. There is another way to look at it.

    In a derogatory article on AK last season, the Football League Paper likened him to the irritating friend who needs his ego stroked and needs to feel the love. The kind who wouldn’t come out and play unless you begged him for half an hour and told him how much he was needed. The kind who would be too busy to go out on the town until you texted him to say it wouldn’t be the same without him.

    It sounds harsh. You understand why AK’s feeling like he is – after everything he’s done he’s been repeatedly underappreciated or undermined for not being Eddie Howe, not being Dyche, not playing Rhodes etc etc – but some things just aren’t ok.

  11. AK for some time now has shown himself to be an awful manager but really is coming across as a fairly awful person too. A control freak who is not in control of much at all and lacks the capacity and experience to change.

    It’s extraordinary that he didn’t go after Charlton last year and today’s after match comments are an, albeit milder, continuation of this. The man has no idea and cannot accept any challenge to his way of thinking whether it be from the players or crowd.

    The way he has treated several players is indicative of him as a man, and by extension, coach. Rhodes has been treated appallingly, and we don’t know why, as has Downing, two players who in form would very possibly turn our season around.

    Few managers are warm and cuddly but there is a petulance and immaturity and at times, spite, that surrounds AK. There is no chance at all that this manner will motivate players, indeed it alienates and festers and confuses.

    It’s sickening that we lost to West Ham, a run of the mill outfit, but to take any positives out of it, it must be that Steve Gibson realises the tide has turned. He has been slow, publicly, on the uptake here indeed.

    Meanwhile the Gazette, pathetically, trumpets the cruelness that Boro have played a lot worse and won, a farce compounded by giving de Roon a 8/10. It doesn’t matter how ‘well’ the one-eyed think we played, the recent sequence of results is bottom of the table form and that’s all that matters.

    We’ve long played out Gibbo’s strength of sticking with managers whatever but it has been a weakness for some time now, Strachan and Mogga evidence of a desire to cling on and hope it can be turned around. Which is understandable of course but it doesn’t mean things will change for the better.

    Unless he has someone definite to bring in, it’s impossible to see SG wielding the axe now but really he has to and ideally before we sell Rhodes.

    Maybe Downing knows something we don’t when he announced he is going to stay. Let’s hope so.

  12. Given that Karanka seemingly made these comments in response to an unrelated question, maybe it was an ill-conceived pre-planned attempt at putting a metaphorical ‘dead cat on the table’ in order to deflect attention from the result. Though perhaps his grasp of this media strategy has somewhat been lost in translation as you’re not supposed to get buried along with the motionless moggy.

  14. My own take on the game was a little different to RR’s, but I share the frustration completely. I did think we played well for much of the game and put together some sublime moves, though, as usual,with limited end product. Traore was immense, his best game for us by far, because his positional play and his decision making were better and he has learned to put in low, hard crosses. I was less than impressed that AK switched him and Stuani at half time as they had both been effective first half, whereas in the second, much less so, just when we needed them most. I also thought Clayton was fantastic today, but I don’t share the Radio Tees view of Bernardo, who I thought had a poor game against Carroll.

    We couldn’t blame AK for not chasing the game today. We ended with 3 strikers on the pitch, blasting high balls up to Gestede and Mr Teflon. That was some change of formation! Not that it worked any better than anything else we’d tried. I am, however, at a complete loss to understand how he can blame the fans for his long ball tactics. Isn’t he the manager? Doesn’t he tell the players what to do and how to play? From my eyrie up in the East stand, I felt the fans were fine, and a good deal more supportive of the team than perhaps they deserved. Perhaps Karanka was getting some stick from those sitting behind him? Whatever the reason, I have to say that I am seriously dischuffed by his outburst. He has done himself no favours and from comments on here, has really upset a lot of people.

    1. Clive

      I thought we played some lovely football at times and some of the passing was superb. The problem for me put simply is “then what”?

      I’m sick of watching windscreen wiper passing paralysis, side to side “to me, to you” balls that then go backwards to go sideways again when you just know that absolutely nothing is going to come of it. If all the nice build up play went somewhere then great but it always fizzles out in abject disappointment so I can’t even enjoy the fruitless build up to nothing.

      It was pretty to watch but what’s the point, we don’t get any points for artistic impression. Goals along with clean sheets will keep us up and at the moment AK has mastered 50% of what he is supposed to achieve.

      The structures he has put in place around the club and the professionalism is excellent. We owe him a massive debt of gratitude for that but thanks to his efforts we are now playing at a far higher level than when he arrived. Do we accept that he appears to be out of his depth at this level e.g. like Lennie and Robbo and say thank you and move on or do we stick with him in the hope that something clicks?

      For all our gratitude, no club sticks with a Manager once the results dry up, Swansea and Hull haven’t and there will be others before the season ends. Eddie Howe has achieved with Bournemouth exactly what AK has achieved except he is now doing it mid table in the Premiership along with Dyche who finished one place above us last season purely because of Charltongate and the nonsense surrounding it.

      For me I think AK has great potential but he is his own worst enemy (it appears) with very poor people skills and it has nothing at all to do with translation or nuances, those excuses are long gone. I’ve repeated on here (well Untypical I should say) in the past about managers having to manage the task, the team and the individuals to be successful in any sector of management. An imbalance in those three (or worse a total inability to recognise the importance) and the wheels fall off for said manager. Perhaps instead of a PR guru the club should have brought in a management guru.

    2. Clive, I think there was a mistake over the “Radio Tees view of Barnardo” against West Ham.

      Maddison very clearly announced that Traore was the Man of the Match but for some reason the touchline reporter went on a frolic of his own, interviewing (Bernardo) Espinosa and telling him that HE had been given MoM. Drury and Maddo later confirmed that – which was a good thing as I had begun to wonder if I had misheard earlier. I had been on the A1 travelling from Scotland.

  15. Clive

    Exactly my thoughts on the game and the switch of Traore to the left.

    I too thought the DNA were supportive but you can count me as one of the fans not happy with Karankas comments and I have been one of his biggest fans

    Lose the fans and you lose everything I think he wants to go unfortunately but no one man is bigger than the club

    Whether we would have to dismantle the whole coaching staff I’m unsure but would think that Steve Gibson has always a plan B

    It is no good Karanka saying look what I’ve done and look where we are now yes look at it nearly I’m bottom 3 with poor offensive football

    When you see Swansea scoring 3 away at Liverpool you wonder how we can score goals with only 2 shots on target !

    I suppose Peter Kenyon will be opening his little black book and making a few phone calls

  17. Seems to me we have a generation of fans, who would have wanted big Jack to go !
    Karanka has a right to express his disappointment, as a matter of fact haven’t all the new fans been screaming wanting goals and entertainment,well isnt that what you got.
    We are not a top team,but if we pay a disciplined game we have. A chance
    Aitor although because of his second language didn’t come across the best way,
    And he probably didn’t understand the fans shouting attack wasn’t a go at him,it was encouraging the team to continue the pressure.
    Please guys relax, don’t be doing a sunderland

    1. Come on, don’t make excuses for him! He’s lost the plot again at a crucial time in the season and clearly can’t deal with pressure of trying to get his team to score goals or even create chances. Two shots on target at home is simply not good enough and what’s more there’s no prospect of any improvement any time soon.

      Quite what Victor Orta and his expensively assembled multitudes are thinking of, recommending players like Gestede I don’t know, he’s clearly not the answer in my book. I shudder to think which other third-raters we’re going to hand big wages to, which we’ll have to live up to in the Championship whilst the recipients have little re-sale value, a common Boro failing in the transfer stakes.

      Karanka’s diva behaviour will be the ruin of us – it can only be hoped that the widely held view that a manager who rounds on the fans is committing suicide is indeed a truism.

  18. January was supposed to be our month to pull away from the bottom because we were playing the teams around us. Four games later and two defeats to Burnley and West Ham and two bore goalless draws to Leicester and Watford and the future is looking far from rosy!

    We can’t even consider the West Brom game as a six pointer either they now sit in eighth place,teams above us are starting to open up a little gap too

    As if results wernt bad enough we now have to contend with the manager on his way to having another meltdown not coping with the pressure again

    He’s bang out of order having a go at the fans,nothing wrong with the atmosphere today. We have still got 30,000 turning up every week despite the awful football we are being served. There was no booing apart from when Noble and Carroll went off. A chorus of attack attack towards the end because we were desperate for a point to salvage something. I really can’t imagine how Karanka interprets that as calling for the long ball and leaves his players “broken” on the pitch.

    We sell out every away game and the fans support away is outstanding both in numbers and vocally considering we haven’t won since Sunderland in August

    It’s the beginning of the end for Karanka to start blaming the fans for his own management failings. If he loses the fans respect how long before he loses the dressing room too?

    Results arnt happening,Karanka doesn’t appear to know how to fix it. I’m not sure the latest signings are the answer either and the latest one we are after Snodgrass can’t even be bothered to turn up to training according to Steve Bruce and is unfit.

    A month ago a few of us on here got ridiculed for saying we were concerned and we were in trouble. A month later and two points from the four games that were going to kick start our season plus the dead and buried Swansea emerging out of the bottom three and it’s not looking good at all.

  19. Good report RR, although like a few others here I didnt see the match quite the way you did – possibly as we watched it on the Tv and only saw the area around the ball without the bigger picture. Also we couldnt feel the atmosphere which I think contributes alot in this sport.

    Our reaction here in the ME Stand was understandbly one of disappointment not with the 3-1 scoreline but with the fact that we remained pretty clueless in the second half – especially as Flash was moved over to the left wing. I thought something was missing all match and it was only when I read here that Fabio was missing that it clicked.

    Obvioulsy we now need more than a point per game and honestly I have no idea where they are going to come from. We will not reach 40, or even 38 points – the spread sheet shows 35 is the best we can hope for based on our current performance and the efforts of others on the table.

    I enjoyed the excitement as the game appraoched the last 15 minutes – I really thought we would save the point, that one of our moves would result in a shot at goal but again the substitutions were late and of course not what we wanted to see.

    As far as AK is concerned he knows best and to save his integrity he should be honest with himself, if that means staying and working hard to retrieve the situation even if it kills him then good but he has to lead from in front and stop flogging his dead horse. If he feels it is out of his hands or too much above him he has to walk away.

    If he thinks he cannot change no matter what the end result will be he has to go. I sail alot and used to race too, and change is essential. He should look to his methods and as they are not working should have courage to try something different without waiting. It may not be working for a variety of reasons – the other team, the mood of the players, a flawed system whatever but dont hold course hoping the rocks will disappear or sail onwards in the face of storm hoping the weather forecast is wrong. He has to do something about it. As soon as we think the wind may be too strong we reef without waiting to see if it is.

    I think we have a good squad with potential and can’t wait for it to eventually click inot shape and Flash is really getting better everytime. Who knows maybe he will keep going next tiime until he is the box and then try a shot on goal and I hope that match is on the telly so I dont miss it.

    The next few games will show us the real picture.

    1. Allan

      I was there andnthe atmosphere was good even great when the crowd got behind the team

      There were no boos at half time or full time and no calls for long balls!!

      All the crowd shouted was attack attack attack and that is a normal thing for any crowd to shout to encourage their team when they are behind

      Either people behind Karanka were shouting at him I don’t know but from where I was sat nearly directly above him all I heard was words of encouragement

      Even the Gazette reported what Hostile Atmosphere? Believe me there was none.

      The only disappointment was late substitutions again but we have learned that this is what this manager does

      Whether we can ride this out I can’t say but generally it won’t have gone down well with a lot of fans

  20. Karanka doesn’t want to play long ball, he prefers the passing ,patient game,then the question is who signed Gestede and Rhodes and if it is who you might think,then fingers should be pointed in the right direction,and before anyone starts defending those in charge ,there is a history of interference!

  21. That was the press conference of a man making an application for his next job.
    Look where we were 2 season’s ago. Look where he’s got us to.

    It was the crowd’s fault that we didn’t create a chance to equalise.

    Remember when he blamed the fans for playing 2 up front last season?

    Petulant is how I’d describe that presser.

  22. The table never lies. As it stands we are clear of the drop zone but we need points on the board, we entered Christmas after a win and a run of games where we could pick up points. Two from five games is a poor return.

    I only caught the tail end of the match so wont comment other than in general.

    You wont change the way Aitor plays the game. The better the attacking options the better we will play. But you have to select them.

    As for the outburst, put it on the charge sheet. AK was lucky to stay after Charlton, the beak letting you off with a warning for the first offence can lead to difficulties with repeat offending.

  23. I was at the match and don’t agree with Redcar Red that we were that bad. Coming up to half time, we were on top and had we gone in at 1-1, I believe that we would have won.

    There were positives
    1. Traore had his best and most complete game. The switch to the left seemed a bit odd but he did have one superb run down that side that cut them apart and created the chance that hit the bar.
    2. We were able to create genuine attacking pressure not just possession which, as anyone who was at Watford will know, seemed to be impossible.
    3. De Roon is a good player who will only get better.
    4. The equaliser was a thing of beauty and it’s frustrating that Stuani and Negredo weren’t in the six yard box for other Traore crosses. We should have scored again.
    5. Its good to have Bamford back. He has a great touch and I can see him doing well.

    However, there were some real problems, a number self-inflicted.
    1. Why is Chambers a better right back than Fabio. The distribution from that side was terrible. That includes Espinosa who is a strong defender but mishit any number of passes.
    2. Forshaw is not a creative midfield player and we desperately need someone else who can find that final killer ball. We’re missing Ramirez or his equivalent badly.
    3. Negredo was a great player but he does so little that it’s almost a waste of a player. Gestede should have come on for him. At least he will put himself about and create uncertainty in the defence.
    4. Without Ayala the defence seem to be uncertain against high balls. It may be that we are overstating the impact of Carroll. The corner looked like terrible defending but I haven’t seen the replay to know how he got a free header. His second could have been anybody and I’m sure Valdes must carry some of the blame for not pushing it sideways. Other than those two goals, Carroll didn’t do that much.
    5. The substitutions were much too late but I feel a bit sorry for Karanka because the ball stayed in play for about five minutes or more when he looked ready to make the change.

    I feel that the frustration at the end of the game is exactly because we played a bit better and then lost. However, Karanka’s comments show insecurity and inexperience. Not what you want in a tough relegation battle. If SG is going to stick by him then he desperately needs an experienced old hand to take some of the pressure.

    Frankly the cup game may be coming at the right time. Its a chance to experiment. I want to see Traore, Gestede/Stuani and Bamford as a front three, Fabio and Friend free to get forward and maybe we’ll see some goals.

    As has been said elsewhere, we’re here for the long run, Boro is in our DNA and we’re not going away.

    UTB

    1. Selwynoz
      I agree with that opinion, we have in my opinion dropped several points lately because of tinkering with the back four. Fabio Gibson chambers and friend plus keeper should be our default line up. They give us plenty of security plus speed going forward. traore is looking like something special, laying on two knock in’s. The second one featured two players three yards from the goal line standing like statues as the ball rolled along the line, that is rank bad training ground work.
      Carroll played unfit, and was gifted both his goals, when he staggered off, they were on their last legs, but we made no attempt to cash in on that fact.
      Just a point, but why do we give Traore the ball when he is surrounded by players, if he got the ball played in front of him at speed he would be devastating.

      1. Funnily enough I enjoyed the game and apart from our two defensive lapses (third one doesn’t count as we were all up front going for equaliser) I thought on the whole that we played well.

        We hit the post and the ball dropped down but didn’t go over the line for us. Two or three great crosses from Traore into the box were unpunished by our forwards.
        Perhaps if we were frightened of Carroll we should have had Gestede on from the start to man mark him at corners and generally make. Nuisance of himself .
        Friend and Espinosa hit a lot of wayward passes and even Gibbo was not at his best. Do we really need to keep mucking about with our defence?

        In midfield Forshaw was subdued and not one of his better games but Clayton and De Roon chased harried and tackled all day

        Stuani took his goal well but he is not a left sided player and Negredo was quiet.

        I don’t think fans shouting attack attack attack is detrimental to the team in any way

        We easily outshouted West Ham fans and talking to others this morning we are all mystified at AL comments

  24. I’m glad the general consensus is that RR’s report wasn’t really a reflection of what transpired because I did think I was watching a different match to the one he described. The first half felt more like a second half at times, with the game stretched and both teams attacking each other. It was certainly entertaining (as RR said a great game for the neutrals) and as I said on the last blog that was probably more down to West Ham being more attacking (than say Leicester) than any change in approach by ourselves. It could have gone either way but unfortunately at the moment we aren’t winning the games that could go either way.

    The shots on target stat is poor but it didn’t really reflect the balance of play. Apparently we put in 27 crosses (to West Ham’s 8) which is a ridiculous amount, and of course one of them led to Stuani pressurising their defender to put one on to the woodwork which won’t show up in any shot on target stats.

    Bob, one thing on your comment:

    “All the crowd shouted was attack attack attack and that is a normal thing for any crowd to shout to encourage their team when they are behind”

    I could be totally wrong here but I don’t really see ‘attack attack attack’ as a normal chant when a team is behind, but a critical one when they think the team isn’t attacking enough. I think AK has interpreted this and the groans when we were passing it sideways as a desire for the team to hit long balls.

  25. I truly think we are at a Watershed Moment and having just watched OFB´s posting of the post match presser there is something not quite right with his demeanor, although the language does not help. As others have said, it is normal that the crowd shout out and attack attack is encouragement NOT criticism. The team is 2-1 down, time is running out and they are looking for an equaliser. What does AK want them to shout, pass sideways pass backwards, pass it to Valdes…nonsense.

    It would be very interesting though to just know if there was influence on any of the big signings and AK´s view on them. SG is not known for interfering but then you never know. The Rhodes situation is very hard to understand given the lack of goals. Negrado has been very hit and miss and Stuani, well we all have our own opinions there. Then to cap it all we sign Gestede and Bamford who are certainly not the type of players we are desperate for, especially if the Gaston rumours have any truth in them. If he left we would need two new creative players in.

    As Spartack said….if Sunderland or one of our relegation partners had signed Gestede and Bamford. would we have being saying, that puts us under more pressure?

    I watched the match on the PC, so accept that you have a narrower view. However I thought at times we played some decent football with Adama MOM, his best performance to date. But there was very little other creativity apart from Chambers who was good going forward but poor at RB, although in fairness he got very little help from the midfield to cover the gap left by Adama when West ham broke clear.

    Without Ayala we lack height in defence and miss him at corners at both ends. Randolf would have come for the cross into Carroll for his first goal, as it was not that far out. Bernardo made some good tackles but was generally poor, likewise George with his final ball. in fact once again there was a lot of poor and overhit passes. Or is that just down to the quality of the players we have.

    What will happen now. There is time to regroup with the cup game first and probably game time for the two new signings. West Brom is on the 31st so one would think that our transfer dealings will be done. Will the squad be good enough, AK promised that it would be a better one.

    The one thing we all know is that if there is not a big improvement in the final third in terms of shots on target and goals scored, then it is back to the Championship and all the upheaval that would entail.

    By the way BoroPhil, I thought that yours was a very good and thoughtful post.

  26. So, more time to reflect, recover from the wine and read the other posts.

    Can’t comment on the game although the different perceptions are interesting. Mind you, they are just that and to some degree, the stats do not lie. Shots and shots on target are what will win games. And thereby is the problem that, to be honest, has always been Boro under AK.

    Yes, he brought us to the promised land of milk and honey and riches, albeit with a struggle, but it rather looks that he is out of his depth and, as others have said, cannot blame himself. Or accept that he needs to change something.

    SIr Steve is loyal, sometimes too loyal and if his plan is to stay in the Prem, then action is required. He is a very successful businessman which does not happen without planning and making hard decisions.

    So, unless his plan is to do a Blackpool and take the money, which I doubt, then, reluctantly, AK must be replaced now to give the new man a chance. He must not do a AK and not make a last minute sub and hope it works.

    It pains me to write this as I have always supported AK, accepting that we have got back to the premiership but his attitude frustrates me.

    I have seen many managers come and go and by in large they all have a shelf life unless they are very good.

    I just wish that in my professional life I could get a nice pay off for failure and then move on again to have another go!

    1. Yes me – I was born on Friday the 13th and so was my mother. The chimney caught fire while my mother was in confinement at home with me and the ensuing fall of soot covered her and the midwife- the hilarity that followed precipitated my birth…so I live in hope that it’s a portent…

  28. The trouble with many fans in the top two divisions base their knowledge of were their teams should be or how they should perform are based on five minute segments on motd,or local guys on the media, who usually are fans and have an attachment,
    I too get mad after a loss ask the dog, but come on, do we need this hype of the boss against fans, I’m sure he is hurting too, he’s a winner by the way after losing a promotion final ,he came back and got promotion,
    COB

  29. Thinking about it more, the frustrating thing about the comments, is generally, I think people thought we played well yesterday. In fact, it almost seemed some would be happier losing 3-1 in an entertaining game than grinding out a dull 0-0 (give me the latter any time!). I was listening to Tees in the car afterwards and the general theme on the messages coming in was positive. And then they said AK had been talking to the national press downstairs…!

    1. We did definitely play some good football and it was entertaining for neutrals. I say neutrals because I’m interested in results and points on the board. Being boring won Arsenal the league so AK can adopt whatever tactics he sees fit if it delivers.

      Had we won I dare say it would have changed my perspective entirely but all through the game I seen a dysfunctional side playing nice football but totally disconnected and I knew it was going to result in a draw at very best. Hence my frustration and abject despair over what I was watching especially as it was clear at Half Time it wasn’t working and the only change was to switch Stuani and Traore which was just ridiculous in the extreme.

      Before KO the selection was flawed and I said so, to then see it then pan out (Chambers decent getting up the pitch but poor defensively at RB and Antonio running rampant) added fuel to my smoldering flame. Traore was superb and put two balls in the box that predatory strikers with a sniffers instinct would have despatched with ease. Problem is Negredo is a lumbering and increasingly frustrated Striker with all the mobility of a JCB and doesn’t play that way. Ironically one didn’t even make the bench and another was sold.

      So taking the Traore crosses, was this a fluke or is it what had been worked on but Negrdeo was just too slow or he wants it played to his feet with pin point accuracy, whatever the reasoning its a disconnect. Stuani I think is far more likely to score than Negredo yet Negredo never gets dropped or subbed. I think Negredo is a decent Striker but AK’s tactics betray him and don’t start me on Gestede and what the point of that signing was unless to play him with Rhodes as a front two but that would be way too obvious for AK, yet he doesn’t want to play long balls. What is Gestede’s strengths if it isn’t in the air? Too many illogical issues now starting to stack up for it to be bad luck or coincidence.

      Forshaw and Clayts, great at breaking up play but both are hopeless at shooting, creating and at set pieces yet AK feels we can accommodate both of them at Premiership level. de Roon has come in for fair criticism at times but does at least put himself about, covers a lot of ground and gets himself up into the box and has an end product. For me I’d play de Roon and Leadbitter with Stewy or Gaston in front (apparently that’s not so dissimilar to what both Stewy and Gaston want if rumours are correct). Imagine Gaston or Stewy pinging balls for Gestede and Rhodes, a front two with proven understanding and goals to boot.

      Defensively we were poor yesterday. Our best back line is with Fabio and Friend on the flanks and Chambers/Ayala with Ben between them. Putting a third one in there is fine if we are going with three at the back. The line up and set up yesterday played lovely stuff but none of it where it matters. I don’t want to watch the beautiful game on the half way line or inside our own half, retaining possession in areas where the opposition are happy to let us have it.

      There was great football at times but it all petered out because nobody was where somebody should have been allied to woeful final balls. Negredo was generally nowhere all game as he has been for many games this season, another waste of a shirt performance yesterday. How many more games are going to be pointless (that’s intended to be taken both ways).

      Just a few days ago we were discussing and debating the 1.63 points per game average over 11 games being unrealistic (I know that the 11 game is arbitrary and not set in stone). That figure now has shifted significantly and with it the likelihood of these players and these tactics to achieve 1 point per game average. I believe we have a squad of players capable of achieving a lot more than at present, not Champions league but a lot better.

      There are now only 4 Premiership teams who have won 4 games this season and the other three occupy the relegation spots. I expected progress as the season wore on. I don’t see progress just tactics that are flawed and now struggling to convince any more, opposition managers know it and so did the home fans yesterday.

      Spells of lovely football yes, but with the same inevitability factor that was highlighted on here well before a ball was kicked (as Exmil I think from memory requested some weeks back).

      1. RR

        I agree with your synopsis and was surprised that Fabio didn’t play after having a great game for past few matches.

        It looks as if they have been giving Traore some extensive coaching and it is starting to pay off.

        It’s obvious we need a creative midfielder to play forward Balls but didn’t we have one on the bench?

        Just saying like

  30. It’s not that any of us prefer losing but more a question of enjoying seeing us play better football that might help us to win in the future. After the Watford game I had no idea how we would ever score. That wasn’t the same yesterday.

    Something Plato said above about passing to Traore in space, did remind me of a thought that I had during the game. He never seems to get into the penalty area. When the attack is on the other side of the field he hangs back. That’s a weakness. I also wonder if it would be worth playing him at the top of the midfield behind the front three. He would have more room and when things open up he could run at the central defenders which would terrify them. They couldn’t go at him for fear of free kicks and penalties. I’d play him there instead of Forshaw.

    UTB

    1. Selwynoz
      Yes, just because Traore can receive the ball with four players round him and beat them all and make a good pass(all regular occurrences yesterday) does not mean that we should subject him to that throughout the match. Surely if we ignored him and just played a ball through the defensive line with a bit of pace on it, then he, playing along the front line, could use his speed to frighten the opposition. At least it would cause them to alter their game plan.
      As it happened, he laid on three goals, one of which we took, the other two were ignored by our strikers.
      In point of fact we possess strikers who have perfected the art of standing still, hence no close quarter goals.
      some famous coach once said,’ any player who is not on the balls of his feet at all times is not in the game, he is a mere spectator’.
      On another point, this was yet another game when we were done to a turn by a team with very large attackers and defenders(Carroll was both yesterday) the four points we dropped against Leicester are now looking like a self inflicted wound as they are anybodies at the moment.
      I’m sorry to say this, but it looks as though we should have fielded our top defence, and told them to do a shut out.

  31. I’m a little perplexed at the overwhelming negativity of RR’s report and the anti- AK nature of the subsequent posts.

    It was evidence of what happens when Boro allow a football match to break out against a team with much better players and the folly of the argument that says we need to “go for it” or ” take off the shackles” to stay up. That approach will certainly see us relegated.

    Our, let’s be kind here, mixed record in the transfer market under AK means that an injury plagued West Ham side, without their stand out talent, were much better than us at all attacking aspects of the game. There 3:4:3 system, cleverly designed to tempt us on and open up the game, created the space for them to flourish. It made for an enjoyable spectacle but is just the kind of game we struggle in. Given the lack of talent at our disposal the game confirmed that AK’s methodology of shutting up shop, blocking up the middle of the pitch and grinding out results is our best bet to sneak over the line and just staying up. Witness how poor we were in the last throws of the game when AK, in a popular but incorrect decision, went two up top hooking off Forshaw thus surrendering the comparative stranglehold we had in the centre of the pitch which had allowed us to pen West Ham in. They broke at will after that switch which bizarrely Maddo on the radio thought should have made earlier. I’m afraid Bamford and Gestede don’t change the grim reality that our most creative player last season is the same as this- Ramirez. Without him grinding out results is probably our best method of accumulating points.

    The reality of being a poor premier league team is now hitting home. The joy of competing for promotion and winning most weeks can never be replaced by a frustrating, attritional plod where being the 4th worst is an acceptable outcome however that is achieved. AK is our best bet to achieve that goal, so stick with him. Focus your criticism on Gill. Orta and our expensively assembled recruitment team who have achieved about half of what Mowbray did with about one hundred times as much money.

  32. I saw the full match on TV and it was very entertaining match condidering it was AKBoro. Put a smiley in here!

    Yes, I agree with several it was good and more attacking minded performance. But we defended like in August and September. The difference between the sides were a certain striker from Newcastle.

    I don’t calculate the last goal as we had about five strikers on and really went for it.

    I would say AK had listen to the fans and the team attacked much more than before in the first half. But we forget to defend. Especially the first half was good to watch.

    So our team and performances are not that bad. But the results has been poor as NGUOB said. We need points now or we start to be in real trouble now.

    And no, we don’t need a new manager now. Not before summer, please. I don’t like AK to critisize the fans, but don’t just read the headline. Perhaps he didn’t choose his words like an Englishman, but you need to read the whole interview and not one sentance separated .

    What we – Boro, AK and the fans – need now is a win or two next (or more, in truth). Starting from the FA Cup match. We need the confidence back.

    Up the Boro!

  33. selwynoz,

    But – the question I would pose you is which match out of Leicester or West Ham did we look more likely to win? The Leicester game which was pretty dull and we ground out a point (but had chances to win) or West Ham where it was wide open but we were behind for most of the match?

    I’d say the former – and as Paulista says above, that style of play is probably our best shot at staying up (which is what AK has been asked to achieve).

  34. I’m gonna. Say it, I didn’t expect after promotion we would stay up,there is a gap, but seeing how we have competed under Karanka, I felt positive ,after today’s game and the negativity, from media and fans, if Steve Gibson doesn’t come out and explain the transfer policy and back Karanka, we should call him out,
    I’ve had enough of his silence since relegation

    1. The transfer policy seems reminiscent of Southgates era, buying low quality but hoping for medium to better returns was somewhat flawed. However having top quality either loaned or on frees with big salaries hasn’t delivered either. Perhaps we should put Mogga in charge of recruitment.

      Had we stuck with last season’s Championship squad would we be any worse off? I don’t think so. More worryingly is that despite all the scouting expertise and targetting of players here we are half through the season and we have major flaws and deficits in the balance of the squad. Is that AK’s fault or Orta’s and Gill? I don’t know but I’m certain SG does.

  35. Well I’m one of those who actually enjoyed watching the match – far more so than the Watford game the previous week, which was dull as they come. I think we shouldn’t let the scoreline shape too much of how we perceive the success or failure of the overall performance.

    The manner of conceding the first goal from a corner straight to Carroll was so obvious that I couldn’t quite believe how easy it was. Valdes had been blocked by a West Ham player and couldn’t come out to get it and Espinosa failed to pick up his man resulting in a simple free header for Carroll . I notice in subsequent corners, Boro put a man in front of Valdes to stop him being blocked and they also got closer to Carroll to stop him making his run – perhaps the latter was the plan to contain their big man.

    We had some good moves, particularly those involving Adama who played his best game in a Boro shirt and they had no answer to his acceleration in the last third. Our goal was well worked and a cool finish from Stuani who I must say looks better playing on the left and drifts into the box more.

    But to concede just before half-time when we were in the ascendancy was poor from Boro – the first shot should have been either been prevented or turned round the post but Carroll was sharpest to poach it.

    In the second half we nearly conceded almost immediately but for a poor strike from Lanzini – but after that we controlled possession of the game without creating too much danger and I fancied we would get an equaliser.

    Switching Adama and Stuani was presumably to offer more defensive cover for Chambers at right-back. who whilst looked good going forward, seemed to struggle when being turned by the lively Antonio or Lanzini. I thought it made both of our wide men less effective than they were in the first half so probably a better solution would have been to bring on Fabio and move the Arsenal loanee back to central defence.

    My continued problem with this Boro team is the lack of effective dead-ball plays – whether free-kicks or corners it seems there’s no intent or imagination – what about a short corner to Adama for him to run into the box and maybe win a penalty?

    It’s also clear that Forshaw’s game has dropped a level in recent weeks and maybe he’s in need of a mental break – though I’m still not convinced our three central midfielders are going to become the link to attack that is needed to get the goals we so obviously need.

    So I wouldn’t condemn yesterday as the folly of going gung ho over the tried and tested defensive shield tactics – no doubt West Ham’s more adventurous approach gave us more space – but they mainly sat on their lead in the second half and we struggled to break them down with our somewhat predictable probing from left to right.

    We caused them problems when Adama ran at them in what is also direct play – nothing wrong in a long ball if it’s accurate enough and into the right space – we saw Adama run onto a long ball (which I’ll call a long pass) in the first half. There’s no law that dictates it’s better to have more passes than necessary.

    We still have problems throughout the team and I think there’s probably a way to make our overall performance better and more holistic – Negredo has his good points but is not always at his best so no reason why he needs to be the last man to be hooked.

    Finally, Karanka was ill-advised to blame the apparently uneducated supporters for urging their team on in the closing stages – surely that’s what any football crowd does as the tension mounts and the clock runs down – though he did in the clip switch from ‘they’ [the supporters] to ‘we’ [everyone] when saying what must be learned.

    I’ll expect he’ll just deny he actually meant it in the way that has been perceived – ‘nothing happened’ is usually the final word on such matters. Personally, whilst we are above the drop zone (albeit with a small cushion) it would be too great an upheaval given half of the backroom are his picks to jettison him and introduce a new philosophy to the players that remain.

  36. I’ve said before Valdes is too diminutive in stature for this league. Much improved on stopping shots compared to his early performances and light years better at coming off his line as a sweeper keeper which was his trademark but at set pieces he can’t force through packed defences and opposition managers know it. A very expensive Jason Steele.

  37. Well, we’re now four points behind where I hoped we’d be. And my pre-season prediction have us winning the next game against West Brom which seems increasingly unlikely.

    Regarding the post match press conference. What such Incomprehensibly foolish comments to make. A manager cannot criticise one’s own support and not expect a hostile reaction. If AK thought the atmosphere was poor yesterday, lord knows what he will make of it at the next game. I imagine the atmosphere will be supportive of the team but somewhere between bilious and poisonous towards AK.

    However with Fat Sam, Bruce and Pulis otherwise engaged, and the closing of the transfer market only ten days away, I imagine AK will still be in situ until the end of the season.

    1. Yes, AK may well stay until the end of the season but if he does I fear that we will be a Championship side again.

      Everyone has their views about AK but in simple terms his job is to get results and he is not getting them. Moreover, on recent performances it is difficult to see where the points required to keep us up are going to come from over the rest of the season. Maybe it was a more attacking display yesterday but hardly a promising one when there was little improvement in the number of shots on target and the result was still another home defeat and zero points.

      As for slamming the fans at his press conference, it is madness and will only serve to poison the atmosphere at further home games.

      There is little point in AK repeatedly suggesting that the fans need to remember where the team was when he took over. The fans know all too well where the team was but they are much more concerned now about where the team is this season and what the prospects are for Premier League survival. Past seasons and successes are history and if AK is relying on his track record in past seasons to keep the fans onside, grateful as they are to him for getting us to the Premier League, than he is sadly mistaken. What the fans want is results this season and AK is not delivering.

      He looked like a man under extreme pressure at his post-match press conference and I am beginning to think that stress is impacting his judgement. His decisions in the second half yesterday seemed very odd to me and, as for his after match comments, what could he possibly have thought he would achieve by alienating a lot of people on whom the club depends for match day encouragement and support.

      Ask yourself how you feel as a dedicated fan when you are fingered by the manager as being part of the problem?

  38. Just looking at the latest “rumours” as to possible transfers…..see that Snodgrass is out injured today, and was out for 18 months with a bad knee injury. Is this a risk to far in trying to sign him?

  40. Initially i could not see the purpose of Paddy Bamford re signing, i thought it was a weak signing and i was left as equally underwhelmed as per the Gestede signing. However after watching the match yesterday and with Traore delivering the ball, i could not help feel that Paddy would have been poaching on the goal line to convert at least one of those three crosses Traore zipped across the goal mouth.

    I have never dissed AK, but after his decision to turn on us yesterday, it was at best insulting, unfounded and unbalanced. He is now responsible for making multi pound purchases with Mr. Gibsons money and he cannot afford to get that wrong. The outgoings, i just hope the decisions he makes are balanced, because my faith in him has wavered tremendously since his outburst.

    Off subject a bit, but the transfer window closes on Jan 31st, same night we play WBA, this surely would make it difficult for a deadline day signing, i have never know a full league program the same day as transfer deadline day.

    1. Acklam

      I too feel that Paddy is more likely to get on the end of crosses like that but there again so would Rhodes in all probability. Strange that we sign Gestede, start creating opportunist chances for a sniffer and yet Rhodes is nowhere to be seen.

  41. Boro Phil
    I think that we looked much more capable of scoring yesterday than in the Leicester home game or he Watford away game. There has to be a way to combine the good points of the attacking performance without giving away bad goals.

  43. Would anyone be upset if we reverted to 4231 with four attackers on the pitch? Throw in two attacking full backs like Friend and Fabio and we would have a cunning plan.

    I noticed in a link above that it is alledged Gaston isn’t happy at not playing his preferred position. He could go back to Hull or Southampton and return to their preferred position for him in the stand.

  44. Well, for me the most disappointing result of the season to date.
    Somew or other though we’re still four points clear’ its still all to play for, now is the time to stick together.
    Jan/Feb is the tough part of the season, we need to hang on in there.

  45. We were only discussing on here a few days ago about why is it that AK needs a meltdown/crisis/implosion of some sort to put together a run? I’m mindful of that old saying that if you hire a Manager who is good in a crisis, guess what, you will always have a crisis!

    Either this rant is the bottoming out of his latest crisis and we will now enjoy a healthy run of form and start averaging 2 points a game and nailed on survival or he has well and truly burnt his bridges and lost the plot. Tittle tattle/leaks I’m getting is that there are those who are laughing who believed internally that given enough rope etc.

    Falling out with Players or Coaches is one thing be they Steele, Albert, Stewy, Ayala, Rhodes, Higgy or as it now appears Gaston but falling out with the fans takes it to a whole new level and with no Leo fit to act as a go between.

    Question now is has he already or when does he fall out with SG?

    Whilst changing midstream is never great and I have advocated keeping stability up until now I am getting very tired of the lack of progress, seemingly misplaced favouritism and very tired of unprofessional petulant strops. It can’t always be the players fault surely? There is very clearly a flaw in his make up which regardless of whether he stays or walks needs to be addressed.

    Spartak is usually a little out on a ledge at times with some of his posts and observations on here but enjoy them or laugh at them he has constantly predicted and harped on about what señor Karanka has now presented on a plate. The next 72 hours are massive for SG’s Boro plan.

    Does SG risk upsetting the entire infrastructure long term for a short term survival plan or risk pandering to the eccentricities of a slightly sensitive genius? Rock and a hard place. I suspect that the rationale behind the overt PR offensive we have been witnessing for some months from those closest to the club is now manifesting itself.

    1. RR

      Mmmm food for thought!

      I don’t think we can change horses midstream and your point about Leo missing is valid as a sounding board for him and to soothe the savage beast sorry breast.

      If he had any sense he would say his comments were misinterpreted and go out and applaud the fans next Saturday but think he is too proud and stubborn to do that

      As he is employing media pa this season it needs to be put out there what he wants.

      I’ve said this before we are all in it together and fans and manager and team unite as one..

  47. I agree with Redcar Red that the next 72 hours are critical.

    Of course we don’t see or hear the full picture although on re watching the press conference, it wouldn’t surprise me if SG had had some harsh words before. AK certainly appeared under pressure and maybe he felt that by making the comment about the fans, he would leave Mr Gibson no choice but to dispense with his services.

    I will see whether I can gain some insight from a source that I have although we can only speculate.

    Perhaps SG is reflecting today and deciding what to do, I know I would be considering whether the position is untenable, notwithstanding the impact that a change now would inevitably bring. Is that worth the benefit that it may bring?

    Either way, I would say either change now or stick it out for the rest of the season and hope that there are three teams worse than us come May.

  48. I would add that it won’t be pretty to watch unless AK can change tactics and the players adapt…………..

    (Looking out of Window for an airborne pink farmyard animal)

  49. A blog full of old fans wondering why the results are not great now. No-one remembers to look at the calerder. Hay, it is January and typical post Christmas slump.

    Even AK is human. UTB!

  50. Briefly.

    Last January (2016), a Burnley fan wrote…

    “So what if Burnley paid £6m for Andre Gray. That is probably less than we’ll get for Danny Ings should that tribunal ever actually meet – and remind me who is a couple clear at the top of the goalscoring charts?

    “That is what annoys Derby (and Boro) fans – we’ve spent money we’ve earned on transfers that have worked out for a manager who has been given time and security to build. It shows up their clubs.”

    I did think AK was out of order with his comments yesterday, but now I think of the manner in which Burnley and their fans have stuck by Dyche through thick and thin and given him time to learn and improve, relegation in 2015 or not.

    I believe someone here – was it Len? – regarded AK as the best manager we’d had since the war.

    Well, to quote Doctor Who… “then maybe (we) should try *telling* (him) that once in a while.”

    It might give him the feeling of appreciation that he is missing for achieving more than any Boro manager has done for years and inspire him to push the club in the right direction again. And prevent him from making comments like he did yesterday.

    1. There again maybe Dyche isn’t the sort who needs a cuddle which I suspect has a lot more to do with it and conversely maybe he speaks to his players as it appears AK doesn’t judging by his press conferences and declaration of not spoken to said player on transfer issues.

      I don’t recall Dyche ever blaming his fans either for poor performances let alone relegation.

      And as regards the greatest Manager since the War I take it we must be talking about the current Syrian conflict as nothing has been achieved thus far that Robbo, Charlton and others haven’t achieved.

  51. We don’t, true, but then we’re not Burnley fans so we tend not to look at their opinions in as much detail. I know I didn’t until the promotion battle last season.

    AK? Even when he’s won – repeatedly, in the Championship – people have wanted more. Even when he’s won well I’ve heard people saying it’s more about the opposition than Boro.

    You can’t blame him for wondering what exactly he has to do to win fans over.

    The manner of his outbursts are something else entirely.

    1. Simon

      If AK is genuinely “wondering what exactly he has to do to win fans over” then thank heaven that he isn’t Arsene Wenger or his “Mentor in meltdowns” the former chosen one at Chelsea or indeed a long (and I suspect growing) list of Man City Managers.

      I would urgently suggest that AK’s PA/PR tells him very quickly and explicitly that you can’t face the future looking backwards. Failure to do that only ends in one way with Football Managers, just ask two of our greatest ever Captains.

      On that self same subject I never once heard Gareth cry about how he was our only ever Captain to lift a trophy or Mogga about who was there, remained loyal, fought and scrapped back in 1986.

      Middlesbrough was the first major British town to be bombed during the Second World War. I am sure we can survive AK’s attack, after all its the most offensive we have seen from him in over 12 months. With a bit of luck it may give him a taste for it!

      Next time he feels sorry for himself and feels a need for a superiority boost I suggest he looks up the history of Henry Cook, Richard Wynn, Archie Wilson and Andrew Jackson. He is extremely well paid, fortunate to have had the support of one of the best Chairmen in the game and also supporters who have constantly sang “Aitor, Aitor give us a wave” since his arrival. As Bill Shankly once famously said “At a football club, there’s a holy trinity – the players, the manager and the supporters.”

  52. I honestly don’t think SG will be spending much time thinking about what has happened. He might have a word with AK and suggest it probably isn’t the best thing to be ranting in press conferences, but I’d say the chances of AK going anywhere are incredibly slim to none.

  53. Lets pour some cold water on the where are or where we should be debate.

    Squad is as follows
    Valdes – barely played for 2 years
    Guzan – played for a team with a dismal defence that got relegated
    Dimi – a good keeper possibly beyond his best years
    Barragan – Spanish journeyman, injured.
    Fabio – played for Manu who ended up at Cardiff
    Chambers – loan player from the Gunners
    Espinosa – a Spanish journeyman, just back from injury
    Gibson – first year in the top flight
    Friend – from Doncaster, first season in top flight
    Clayton – first season in top flight
    Leadbetter – little experience in top flight
    De Roon – from Atalanta, no experience in top flight
    Forshaw – no experience in the top flight
    Downing – most experience in the top flight
    Ramirez – failed at Soton and Hull
    Traore – project with little experience.
    Fischer – project with no top flight experience
    Negredo – barely played for two years
    Stuani – no top flight experience
    Rhodes – no top flight experience
    Gestede – poor last season in a poor team
    Bamford – no success in the top flight.

    If the list is not totally right, apologies.

    The top flight consists of 15 teams with more that two season experience, two teams in their second season, two teams relegated and promoted last season. All these clubs, despite the wails of no funding have had much more than us.

    The published spending puts us near the bottom of the table, the last wages showed us near the bottom.

    Back in August/September I posted the comment that it looked like we were building a team to compete in the bottom part of the table. That looks to be about right.

    Does that mean we are getting the best out of what we have? Doesn’t look so.

    Have we dropped silly points? Yes.

    Were AK’s comments ill advised? Yes.

    Am I concerned? yes

    Just a few thoughts.

    1. Ian

      Agree with all that (apart from Espinosa being a Columbian I think rather than a Spanish journeyman). Yet by far our most experienced Premiership player is unwanted which considering our plight seems strange.

      I guess we just have to eat up all the spin meanwhile. I’m just wondering if the arrival of Gestede, Rhodes offers being rejected and Stewy “staying” is part of something else going on behind the scenes perhaps triggering the “fanning of the blames”.

    2. When you see that squad list, Ian, it seems to paint a convincing picture of a side destined to struggle in the top flight. But then I think of Watford and Bournemouth who have both gone on to survive with squads that had just as little experience and quality. Or there was the early Pulis Stoke side of a few seasons back.

      Nonetheless, I think we’re about where I expected us to be at this stage. And I think the lads have learned a huge amount about playing at this level and in some games, have done remarkably well. Witness performances at Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd and Leicester.

      I really don’t want Karaka to leave. He has reorganised the club from top to bottom, and has made it a much more professional outfit where everything is planned to the last detail. He’s got us promotion. He has made us into a superb defensive machine (yesterday apart). But I am starting to wonder if he really can get any more out of this squad or whether he can get them to attack and score more goals like other clubs do. Has he, perhaps, reached a plateau? Have the players?

  54. Did you see Bernardo’s Bobby Moore tackle in the second half W ham breakaway, brilliant!
    And furthermore please no Snodgrass, is he any better,
    I’m really concerned Aitor is getting frustrated with inside interference ,being told how to play and who to sign,something smells funny.

  56. I am furious his comments have been widely publicised home and abroad giving the Boro supporters a bad name, when we know just how good home and away they are. The mans a fool and he needs a boot up the Jacksie from Sir Steve .
    The fans will not forget this unnecessary slur.

  58. Clive

    I agree about Watford and Bournemouth, I mentioned two clubs had a seasons experience in the top flight. At the moment we are on target to do the same.

    By the way I missed out Ayala but he hasn’t shown yet.

  59. Cards on the table – I don’t think it would be good for the club for AK to leave now. Whilst this is probably the best time to make a change (still some time left in the window if we get a quick replacement), it would be a massive upheaval on and off the pitch, unless SG has another Spanish coach used to working in that kind of team lined up.

    However, AK needs to show himself now and galvanise the club. I’m sure it won’t only be the fans who are annoyed at his comments, you can imagine some of the playing staff won’t be best chuffed that he’s picked a fight with the fans after that, and how this may transmit itself from the stands to them during a game. AK forgets that us vs. them means that the players get lumped in with “us” and pitched against the fans too. I think most people are sensible enough to separate AK from the players, however cultivating a potentially atmosphere-destroying fight, when we have our own relegation fight to face is not a good move.

    One aside. If we stick with AK, which seems probable, then regardless of his statements to the contrary someone needs to kick Downing out of the club. It looks, even from the outside with limited information, as though he’s continuing to stoke the fires of discontent, and his declaration that he will stay looks like a deliberate two-fingers to the manager and an attempt to destabilise or undermine him. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that Downing is the biggest issue and his conduct a disgrace. The last thing I want for Boro is to turn into a version of Sunderland, where the dressing room poisons the club and tries to take power. So, whether AK stays or goes – Downing should be shown the door ASAP, even if it means cancelling his contract. Of course, my opinion on Downing is only based on rumours, and there are two sides to every story – so let him leave and tell his if he wants to.

    Back to AK. His biggest weakness now appears not to be his tactical inflexibility, but his blind-faith approach to certain players. For example – why is Negredo undroppable? We have 3 other strikers (4 if you count Stuani), so why are none of them given a shot? I understand that Negredo allows us to defend from the front, but if we’re to get out of this slump we might need to start attacking from the front. Away to West Brom we are going to presumably try to counter-attack, and an immobile Number 9 is not the way we’re going to break them down. Espinosa appears to have crept imperceptibly into the team after his injury layoff and has now broken up a very credible CB partnership, which is another bizarre move given our defence is our strength. Is he another who AK “trusts” over and above Chambers for example?

    Each manager has their “favourites”, but AK is intriguing in that his list of favourites is quite long, and conversely he has quite a list of untrusted players who are still at the club, rather than being swiftly moved on. As other’s have speculated, if their continued presence is against AK’s wishes then that already is an ugly situation.

  60. Smoggy

    We are home to West Brom but it might be two teams away as it was at The Hawthorns. They will be full of confidence but like many games in the top flight the first goal often decides the outcome.

    I am off to B&Q to get a Dulux colour card (other paint brands are available) so I can check my toast and chips don’t have too much acrylamide in them – browned toast may be dangerous for us

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-38680622

    As it is due to ‘roasting’ starch rich foods the next thought is what about food with roasted barley such as dark beers.

    We had roast chicken with stuffing, roast potatoes and parsnips. Gulp, we didn’t trim the crispy bits off the stuffing and the roast veg were nice and crispy.

    Maybe Chippes will have to put up colour charts, Indian restaurants will have to cut the brown bits off naans.

    Caramellised fruit and veg a thing of the past, no more dark toffee.

    Ahead of us lies a life of soggy chips and bland coffee.

    1. Love burnt toast, roast veggies and I drink Coopers dark ale naturally fermented no nasty chemicals and to make it even better I drink it half and half with cider, mothers milk it is so good for you give it a try. Oh and the stronger the coffee the better. 66 years young,no medication,eat no rubbish , swim surf and chase women.
      UTB.

  61. Smoggy

    What if Downing isn’t the problem? What if he is asking the self same questions about “Favourites” and breaking up effective defensive partnerships as you have asked? Maybe Stewy sees the same blind faith and “immobile” No.9 as some on the terraces do and has asked why?

    The Manager has to be in charge I accept that but a Manager has to manage the task, the team and individuals and glue them all together into one effective cohesive unit. I don’t know if he does or not and can only comment from the outside looking in but AK appears to be very task oriented with time for “his” team and very little time indeed for certain individuals. Is Jordan Rhodes a troublemaker? Is Dimi a bad influence around Rockcliffe to name just a few?

    How many chances did Valdes get over other players when his early season form was abysmal? Barragan can’t take throw ins and is hardly an athletic wing back yet when fit seems untouchable. Would Nugent for example have scored as many goals had he been given the same game time as Negredo?

    We all have to work with individuals that we would rather not from time to time but we have to make allowances and extra effort with those who we are not particularly comfortable with, that is just one of the things a manager gets paid for, not many are capable however it has to be said. That is not to say everything is always rosy in the garden and that like Fergie with Beckham there can be a time to move players on if they no longer fit in with the Team or the Task. That may simply be the case with AK but there does seem to be a lot who fall into that category and very quickly.

    Does Stewy want Boro to fail miserably and get relegated? I think we all know the answer to that regardless of opinions on his ability. AK incidentally doesn’t want Boro to fail either even if only for personal pride reasons. Both ultimately want the same objective but it is likely that their view on how it can be achieved differs somewhat.

    As the weeks go by and with only 17 games to go views on here and elsewhere will become more polarised especially if narrow draws and defeats continue as the norm. Pressure will build as it started to around this time last season, its not going to get easier and if AK is struggling to cope now just wait until February or March and fans seeing new Managers at Hull, Swansea and even Fat Sam at Palace maybe starting to climb over us.

    January and our “easier set of fixtures” is half over with a poor return on what we need especially given our final few weeks fixtures. An improvement needs to be now to give ourselves every opportunity and both Stewy and AK know it.

    1. I fully understand Redcar, Downing may be asking those questions. However, when you’re part of a team you have to adapt to the manager as well as him to you. Football is, and will always need to be, an authoritarian game. The manager must exercise authority, and how he goes about the other sides of management (motivating his personnel to come along with him) can be achieved in many ways, however authority is tantamount.

      Anyone who seeks to undermine that, regardless of their reasons, should be ousted. If Downing had concerns, a 1:1 with AK in private is the way to address them. Once you start questioning those things in a room full of your colleagues then you are without question a trouble-causer who seeks to undermine your boss. You can argue that your motivations are sound (to seek the best outcome for your team), however your base motivation is to rally others round to your cause and ultimately deviate from the planned course.

      With that in mind, any incoming manager (should there be one) has two approaches. One, conciliation. Get Downing and the others on his side, hear them out etc. I’m led to believe that Steve McClaren did exactly this with the Gerrard’s and Lampard’s of this world when he took the England job. One umbrella later and he is remembered as the weak manager who tried to be everyone’s friend and didn’t get respect for it. The second option is to assert your authority. Remove the insurgency before it takes root. You set down a marker, let the players know that you are confident and not afraid to take tough decisions, and should they see the logic in your approach, win them around.

      Which approach works best and when is a tricky balancing act. Either way, if AK leaves and there is even a minute possibility that Downing thinks he has got his way then he should be pushed out immediately, otherwise we risk becoming a laughing stock.

  62. On to matters more important than Managers tantrums or non scoring Strikers. I hope Ryan Mason makes a full recovery. Broken bones, twists and sprains are part and parcel of the game but a fractured Skull requiring emergency surgery is a whole different level from which the lad may not recover let along kick a ball again. The prognosis at the minute seems encouraging lets hope he continues to mend.

  64. On the issue of Downing, football clubs are not democracies.

    MFC have a benevolent dictator as chairman, such people tend to have less benevolent people beneath them to do the dirty work.

    🔴 Ah, I see Ian’s back in the scoring groove…

     – – – – – -🚗- – – – – 100

  65. All this reminds me of Paul Doyle on Mick McCarthy, post-2002.

    “Do you have to be blindly loyal to the manager to enjoy playing for Ireland? Certainly, loyalty and length of service seem to have strangely prominent places in McCarthy’s definition of a meritocracy. Ste­ven Reid is a fine player, who made a powerful impact when he came on against Cameroon, but he was only in Japan because McCarthy’s prize pupil, Mark Ken­nedy, a dunce in most observers’ eyes, got injured. And why, as Ireland tried to finish off a reeling Spain, did Mc­Carthy resort to David Connolly, who has simply never looked like an international player, instead of the com­paratively swashbuckling Clinton Morrison?”

  67. Well lunchtime is upon us and nothing out of Rockcliffe yet. Can we assume that BP is correct and there has just been a quiet word and that’s the end of the matter or are discussions still ongoing?

    After Thursday/Friday’s rumours has AK even turned up at Rockcliffe this morning? AV has chucked a sickie apparently are the two interrelated?

    Snoddy apparently has a Gaston type injury whilst poor old Ross McCormack can’t get his gates opened to turn up for training. Is it just me thinking that he maybe hopes for a swap plus cash deal with Rhodes from Villa?

    Meantime we are allegedly looking for a Right Burke and this time its not the Manager and he doesn’t even speak Spanish!

  68. RR….if we have our own thoughts on certain players, who should and should not be in the team, I am sure the players themselves will have their own views.

    I would be p……d–off somewhat if a “colleague” not producing the goods in my opinion was get to play every game and I was sat on the bench or not even in the squad. These are only youngsters in real term, no life experiences and do not have rational thoughts as most of us bloggers do!!!!!!!

    Why would Gaston want to move to another struggling club. Better to wait until the summer then if we get relegated that is another story. But may be the agent has had a phone call and sees another buck to be made. And I am sure there will be splits, however small, in the dressing room down the line of language.

    1. Big spread on back page of the Gazette calling for unity by AK saying we are all in this together it’s his PR team putting it out in some way to try to diffuse the situation.

      Still not happy about the outburst it was uncalled for I was at the game and the fans were great and look at all the sell out away support !!!!

  71. Pedro

    Splits may not even be down the line of language, people are complex and we don’t know who is friends with who at the club. It is likely the Spanish speakers are closer to each other than the north Europeans.

    Basques are not lovers of the rest of Spain. Do the South Americas get on with the Spanish in the dressing room? Does AK get on with anybody?

    I think Sheringham and Cole couldn’t stand each other but made a good partnership at Manu.

    Grant is a Mackem!!

    It all fills column inches and it must be said the blog.

  72. Nigel

    From what I was told suspect Snodgrass lives somewhere near Leeds, his girlfriend is Scottish and he owns property in Wynyard so there may be some pull from the North East.

    There again he played for Norwich albeit for a short while. Maybe he moved to Hull to get back to Yorkshire?

    Maybe he will stay put.

    1. I think Snodgrass will come but for £8m which is a lot but if he can get forward Balls to strikers it could save our season. He scores a few from midfield too.

      A pity Forshaw has tired and looks a bit jaded at the present probably rest him Saturday

      If Gaston wants to go then let him no man (or manager ) is bigger than the club. Apparently he always or more probably his agent gets itchy feet every transfer window

    1. Maybe his agent is angling for a big move to the Smoke and the Press Premiership? Another rumour circulating is a burnt out Trabbie blocking his driveway with an angry Carpathian Male in custody ranting about warranties.

      Of course he may be party to high level meetings that are being conducted at this very moment of which nothing can be spoken and locked in a Rockliffe Hotel Room until the negotiations/severances are complete.

      There again he may just have Man Flu, if so hope he gets well soon!

      1. Just a thought about the presser or should I say pressure on Saturday

        AK probably feels on his own.!No Leo to talk to and provide a different view or counter argument

        I’ve been there in management feeling aloof and out of it not one of the boys or girls whichever way you look at it.

        So I hope it settles down but after being at the match I thought Boro were unlucky good save hit the bar dropped down etc then post match…..

        Still feel it wa unwarranted

  74. It’s bit rich for AK to ask for unity on the back page of the Gazette today when he is the one who put a big crack in it with his unwarranted criticism of the fans.

    1. It was all lost in translation, “Attack” in Spanish is “Attaque” which sounds nothing like……………..oh begger!

      Clearly though the Spanish “Attaque” must mean lobbing big long balls into the box for the big tall non scoring Striker that we didn’t just send on to the pitch (as oppose to the “immobile” one).

      Now the English “Attack” means get the ball moving forwards quickly and with intensity (like Stauni’s goal even), don’t keep passing it side to side in midfield and then back to Valdes with the clock running down.

      What we should have done of course is to run the game down and be happy losing only 2-1 because then our GD isn’t too seriously affected. Next time the South stand needs to change the chant to “Defend, defend, defend, defend, defend!”

      Other ditties and acceptable refrains possibly include:

      “Sing when we’re drawing, we only sing when we’re drawing”

      And then there’s the classic to the tune of Come on Boro,
      “Get back Boro, get back Boro”

      And the the tune of another brick in the wall,
      “We don’t need no substitutions, we don’t need to score some goals, hey Aitor leave them subs alone”

      And in the 89th minute,
      “Sub in a minute, we’re going to sub in a minute”

      Of course there’s always,
      “Two shots and we still don’t sing, two shots and we still don’t sing”

      To the tune of Vindaloo,
      “We’re going to score one less than you”

  76. I agree that Steve Gibson won’t be contemplating relieving Karanka of his duties over his post-match comments but I’m pretty sure he will have made a note of them for future reference.

    As far as excuses go for managers it was as flimsy as they come and probably not even worth anyone considering it as a credible reason why our chances of gaining a draw petered out. It was to Karanka’s discredit that he chose to make that point rather than accept the resposibility himself on behalf of the team.

    If we are to wonder why Karanka hasn’t cemented his place in the hearts of a huge swathe of Boro supporters following promotion then it must be down to how he comes across in their eyes. It must be something about the boss that prevents them making a connection – they probably respect his achievements but are not emotionally attached to him.

    It’s possible that it may be down to his limited capability in his second language but as someone who is fluently limited in their capability with a second language, it’s often down to physical demeanor – which is also probably down to his pride and no doubt the understandable dislike he has for admitting to getting something wrong that gives him an uneasy shifting body language.

    I can see it is something he learnt from his mentor and friend who has more than one occasion crossed the line when searching for scapegoats. Fine if you’re Mr Hot Property and have a queue of suitors who want a piece of your action – but AK has to be careful as one second tier promotion won’t give you the same appeal as three League winners medals in three different countries.

    Admitedly the pressure’s on – whether Karanka has starting to hand out the rope to his chairman as a calculated career damage limitation exercise is perhaps pushing it a bit – though leaving by mutual consent before being in the drop zone will look better on a cV than a bonified relegation cross against his name – with his super-defensive organisational credentials still intact with comparitively ‘limited’ resources.

    Karanka knows staying up with a promoted team will give him kudos – that’s his aim – 17th place. He probably needs to take a deep breath and loosen up before the next post match press conference if he is to see out that aim.

    So maybe everyone should forget his outburst and just send him an appropriate card instead – you know the one – ‘Keep Calm and Carry On’ – perhaps he is in need of some english humour injections from his medics as well.

  77. I understood that AK criticized the players more than the crowd. That the players took the instructions from the crowd and started to play long ball in the final 10 min. I think one sentence is taken out of context.

    Both post match interview are available at Boro+. Of course you need to subscribe to listen to them.

    So let’s move on. I know the fans who are against AK, will make this a bigger thing that it was.

    Up the Boro!

    1. Unfortunately Jarkko the worlds media have made it an even bigger thing than it was not the Boro fans. Its like Pandora’s box, you can’t put the lid back on these things or whistle and pretend it never happened.

      The below is just one report on what was said

      http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2017-01-23/karanka-fans-have-a-small-memory/

      What really annoys is that the Fans gave the side good support and backing on Saturday and have done all season even when performances haven’t justified it (more often than not). They have also spent small fortunes organising impressive displays and banners, perhaps its not just fans guilty of short term memory capacity? The support he and Leo received at Charlton when all thought he had no way back?

      Its not the first time AK has complained about the fans, he did it down at West Ham and away at Southampton just this season as well as away at Blackburn previously. Our away support is probably the best or certainly as good as any in Europe let alone the Premiership.

      With something like 4 wins in 25 or so games its no wonder the fans have a memory lapse, what’s AK’s excuse?

    2. Not sure you can minimise the significance of a manager telling the fans of the club that they need to show the players more respect, that the atmosphere was awful and that they need to remember where the team was before he turned up and saved the day. Not sure either that it was one sentence or that it was taken out of context but each to their own opinion.

  78. My take on the Downing thing is this , he came home and obviously relocated his family, being a local he would want the best for his hometown. As someone said football is not a dictatorship, players are rich and unlike the past when players got a small income they are going to question things ie certain players untouchable, others played here there and everywhere, some treated with contempt and not even given a go having to watch a new player not match fit get a run when you are not even on the bench, must be hard to keep a lid on simmering tensions.

    Hands up who have had a new Manager come into their business and not had a clue, they try to inflict their beliefs on some who had worked in that business for years, surrounded themselves with yes men and women who wouldn’t listen to sage advise. Yes people get frustrated and leave but others stick it out because they love the company their fellow workers and take pride in doing their job. I know this has happened to me I was offered positions for better money elsewhere but I knew if I stuck it out then eventually the others bluff and bluster would be found out and they would move on and I would reap the benefits. Worked for the same company for 35 years and was looked at as being strange by these new wonderkids who changed jobs at the drop of a hat, I always found those types to lack any people skills it was always about them.

    Anyway getting back to Downing maybe he feels the same being a Boro boy and having strong links he is prepared to bide his time maybe he can see the whole Karanka facade teetering. Unfortunately he is not alone in being on Karankas black list and we cannot keep shipping out players and bringing in projects or players out of form. I find the calls for “If he doesn’t want to be here then let him leave” annoying, there are obvious issues that need to be sorted out quick smart because if we do get relegated Karanka will be off leaving us with a worse mess than the Jockification Strachan imposed on us.

    Whoever takes over will have a hell of a job, I just hope we keep a few players who can make a difference Downing, Ramirez, Rhodes..Ayala
    UTB

    1. Michael –

      Yes, as in any football happening, tempers get heated, things are said, irrational statements are scattered all over the place. But, and it is a big but, it is important to remember that we are a premier side with a rather good number of readily saleable players,(note the line forming on the right) Ramirez, free, asking price fifteen million, Rhodes asking price twelve million, Gibson, about twenty five million, Traore, picked up for next to nothing, he will be worth fifteen million, eventually.

      Prior to this manager coming we gave away our players. This is better.

      It all comes down to defensive or attacking play, and AK thought that we would get the points we need by playing tight at the back. Unfortunately, a number of fans long to try an experiment with attacking play. It has not worked, and I can see the managers irritation, he will be keen to get his troops in determined mode and collecting points again a.s.a.p.
      The iritating.thing is we are probably the fifth worst team in this league, but it will not stop us going down if we start being irrational.

  80. As I said earlier, I don’t like the manager to criticize the fans.

    But having to listened to the interviews, I can see AK criticizing his players more than fans. The “awful” part was … awful, though.

    But lets see how he reacts next – I would be surprised if he wouldn’t like to correct what he said. He is not stupid.

    Up the Boro!

  81. Boroexile – Whether or not people want it to be, it will be brushed under the carpet – OK the mound under the carpet will still be visible but unless this turns into an actual meltdown in proportion to Charltongate, rather than just a self-inflicted embarassment, then it will be spun and downplayed by the club.

    Nobody will want to risk a massive upheaval whilst we are still only one win away from that seven point cushion and what I would then suspect will be a much easier task of maintaining that gap and achieving our overall aim of staying up.

    I know some will say he’s lost the supporters, and he will have lost a decent chunk with that outburst but I would bet a win against WBA is less likely if the club push the panic button and we have a caretaker manager in charge of that game (as with Chartongate).

    I’m sure nobody likes what was said but we should move on and diffuse the situation – Yes the media have focussed in on that story, last week it was Costa sulking and disrespecting the Chelsea fans in the hope of a massive Chinese pay packet – he returns, scores and everyone moves on. Hopefully, AK has let off his steam and does the business and can eat his humble pie.

    1. Werder, I suspect you are right that it will be brushed under the carpet but you are also right that the mound will still be visible. By all means we can all “move on” but as I said in another posting today AK has form in throwing wobblies and in my humble opinion it is only a matter of time until another tantrum or ill-judged outburst comes along.

      Why? Well I think it is because AK sees himself as infallible, untouchable and omnipotent and so whenever he feels under excessive pressure from criticism he loses the plot. We can all hope that the mound under the carpet doesn’t increase in volume but something tells me it will and it’s only a matter of when. The key question is at what point will the cause of the mound be removed?

      On a separate topic, you have done a great job in setting up and running this forum which must be one of the best, if not the best, football forum in the U.K.

      🔴 Much appreciated – everyone is helping to show that our blog is greater than the sum of it’s parts – Werdermouth

    2. Werder
      I keep posting our link on twitter and Jarkko retweeted is it having an effect on numbers joining ?

      🔴 The stats this week show 45 visitors were referred from Twitter, in terms of numbers it’s hard to say whether they have increased overall. Week 3 was up on Week 2 and is at the level of Week 1, which was very active for the first few days as everyone came over.

      We generally seem to peak around matchdays with Fridays usually the quietest day but it seems we have a hard core of maybe around 700 individuals that produce consistently around a 1000 or so views per day – Werdermouth

  82. I must say, the attention being payed to this outburst is a little extreme. There are players not training because their security gates will not open, their are managers attacking referees, their are owners wanted for interview (by their fans) there are also owners wanted for interview (by the police, of three countries) so can we have a little calm, nobody got killed, Traore is coming on a treat, there are seventeen matches to go, anything can, and probably will happen.

  83. Plato

    It was a foolish thing to say but it was a pinprick compared to the Watfords Mayor’s comments about Boro fans being disrespectful to Graham Taylor.

    Add it to the charge sheet and move on.

    Before I do so it is worth bearing in mind that AK was the man at Real to calm things down when Jose routinely exploded.

  84. Apparently there has been Chinese interest in buying a stake in the Boro. The timing of this fortuitous news story is incredible, hopefully it will deflect discussions and attentions away from “Supportergate”.

    Made all the more incredible with it being Chinese New Year!

    1. RR
      Re; the Chinese interest. god forbid.
      When a rich foreign(very rich) person wants to buy your club, beware.
      A short study of English football will have you running to the hills.
      The problem is, What is rich? Most of them don’t have a hundred million, fact.
      So they buy a club, sixth in the champ. How difficult can it be? Buy couple of players, ten mill. each, fans delighted, lose their next three, fans not delighted, both players are rubbish, three of best players leave club. This guy has now spent twenty million on players plus price of club, half his fortune gone, no chance of getting his chops in the premier trough, fans know he is rich, insist that he buys some serious players, quick.
      He lets the fans know that there will be no more buying of players, he then raises thirty million by selling the two very best players.
      Club settles down to a relegation battle, which they survive(just)
      He sacks all the back room staff, fans are foolish enough to cheer this,
      He moves in a couple of Chinese mates as coach and trainer, fans start to worry
      He then disappears back to china, for three months.
      Stories start going the rounds(the pubs) suppliers have not received payment for three months, not good.
      All players start looking for new clubs(desperately)
      New season, bottom of league,
      Talk is of further relegation, fans are in meltdown.
      Hallelujah for the foreign owner.

      1. Just had a lightbulb moment !!

        I bet the reason Jordan Rhodes isn’t playing is that it would kick in an additional payment to Blackburn based on so many premiership appearances!!

        See Sheff Wed have offered £8m plus add ons and his dad is goalkeeper coach

        Mmmmmm

  86. RR
    The timing does seem fortuitous. It couldn’t have been stage managed could it or is that just my cynical view?
    Like it or not, I do, however, think we just have to move on from Karankagate 2 and leave the inquest and/or upheaval until the season is over, unless AK or SG determine otherwise.
    UTB

  87. It does all seem to have come from this ‘attack attack attack’ chanting. I have to be honest, I thought that was having a dig at what was being served up rather than being a supportive/encouraging chant so I can hardly blame AK if he felt the same. But from what I’ve read and heard elsewhere it seems the consensus is that it is just encouragement.

    We have to move on, don’t we. Dwelling on it helps no-one. It would be great if next Tuesday’s game was tomorrow but at least we don’t have any more PL games now until deadline day. You’d have no complaints from me if they scrapped the January window, it just seems to cause uncertainty.

  88. Have had a bit of a busy few days and so only just managed to get around to reading all the posts on this blog. It is a worry when the fans are singled out . The best mangers will always assume the mantle of responsibility and deal with anything that needs dealing with behind closed doors. Should ways give out the platitude of understanding the fans frustrations, whatever he feels.

    Anyway. He can’t unsay those words now and only has results to begin to get (and quickly) fans all onside. I am now very concerned we will not have enough of a buffer at the back end of the campaign to absorb the beatings we can expect from the teams chasing the title and the European places.

    The window is not closed, so still time to get that CV spark or two of creativity into the squad. But beginning to doubt that AK had the answers.

    Takes deep breath and begins the wait to see what the next 4 weeks will bring.

      1. Rumour from Richard Keys ex Sky Karanka gone

        Also twitter saying Mancini taking over

        So I suppose we will just have to Rumour Nate !!

        Hopefully it is like last time when Charltongate and Pearson was coming …..

  91. Thinking back to the “Chinese” offer of £50M for a 50% stake in a Premiership club. That figure is so ridiculous it can’t possibly have any credibility in it let along any substance worthy of reporting. Gibson and Traore/Rhodes/ Ramirez would cost that alone. Who makes these stories up?

    No wonder AV chucked a sickie today, I think I’d have struggled to hang onto my stomach contents with the PR nonsense going on at the minute. Strange though that there hasn’t been some sort of sensible riposte from the club over the last 24 hours.

    Meanwhile we have the Telegraph claiming everyone has kissed and made up yet conversely bookies slashing odds on AK’s departure and meanwhile Spartak keeping schtum throughout procedings!

  93. OFB

    Keys tweet appears to be the only mention on Newsnow and such rumours are normally picked up by the cut and pasterazzi journalists, the story may still have legs.

    Nothing on Sky News after a quick glance.

  94. The Telegraph has reported that AK has told club officials that he regrets his emotional outburst .

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/01/23/middlesbrough-manager-aitor-karanka-sorry-criticising-supporters/

    “Steve Gibson has spoken to him and is happy enough with his explanation and contrition.”

    Seems like that is that then. I’m not really one for demanding explanations but it might help if he directed this to the fans as well as in private. Let’s use this to our advantage and make the atmosphere something special next Tuesday (not forgetting Saturday’s game).

  95. Looking at form tables for the last 10, 8, 6 and 4 games unsurprisingly shows Boro near and around the bottom of the Premiership form table. Our positions over those games in order are 15th, 17th, 14th and 17th. Whilst hardly a shock or surprise it does indicate that during the month when we felt that we perhaps had some opportunity for points, over the last 4 games we have slumped back down to 17th.

    http://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/middlesbrough/form/four

    If we stay 17th in the league come May that will do but consider the heated debates we had previously on here about 17th being acceptable etc. etc. most of us were hoping for a position (or three) higher just to be certain of safety. This month hasn’t yet yielded anything like our projected (however optimistic) points return.

    On Saturday AK’s primary (and arguably secondary and tertiary) tactic of defence and clean sheets was breached in the most obvious and predictable manner very early on. We got back in by playing a fast attacking swift movement with energy and pace finished off by Stuani. But for some poor defending both in keeping the line for offside and in reacting and in our Keeper pushing the ball straight back into the danger zone we could have gone in level and psychologically regrouped.

    Nothing significantly changed at half time (it never does but we do live in hope) other than a bizarre and ineffective switch of Traore and Stuani. Of greater concern we came out half asleep not for the first time and nearly conceded immediately. The game wore on, our intensity gradually dipped, energy looked to be dipping also along with our hope for one point let alone three. Fresh Subs were not forthcoming until late in the game and yet when they did come we just passed the ball around in a safe area.

    West Ham had dropped back, had pulled Carroll off and set up to keep what was theirs. Watching on all I could see was monotonous possession that largely looked to be going nowhere. Gestede had been put on up top with Negredo, Bamford had been brought on and the clock was ticking down whilst we passed and probed, passed and probed. The problem was glaringly obvious we had nobody except Traore who was capable of opening up tight compact defences, one singly solitary player yet we had two big strapping blokes in the middle and Bamford lurking.

    I would be very interested if anyone from the press could (or perhaps would dare) ask AK what his gameplan was at that point and through who and how was it going to be executed because he had definitely changed his normal set up. He had a front two and we had been told quite openly upon signing Gestede that he gives us “options”. Was it to patiently pass and probe, look for Traore or Bamford to be fouled and then wait for a set piece? If so then who was going to take the free kick because quite frankly our free kicks and corners were nothing short of pathetic all game.

    With the clock heading towards single digits, no points on the board, nothing from the bench to indicate that something was taking shape, planned or remotely motivated or coached the fans took it upon themselves to instil a bit of positivity. Another question for the press to ask AK is why does he think the fans felt it necessary to start shouting “Attack” in those moments with the obvious likelihood of yet another game yielding no points being the likely outcome? I would even go so far as to ask it Spanish to be certain of an unambiguous response.

    Perhaps it was the realisation that nothing was going to happen from the dug out so somebody had to try and do something that created the chant. Be it 5,000, 10,000 or 15,000 all simultaneously coming to that very same conclusion clearly hit home whilst AK looked on realising that their till now unwavering belief and confidence in him was slipping away.

    If you believe in my way or the highway as a management philosophy when people stop believing it can suddenly become a very lonely road. Results are what counts now and we have 17 games left to pick up the necessary 18 to 20 points. A few of those games look almost impossible to get anything from so wins are required from somewhere. Wins need goals and goals only come as a result of attacking and shooting. Its no longer complicated, strategic or technical.

  97. With six games left and there is four points between bottom and sixteenth,knowing you are in a fight for survival, I’d back Karanka before making a change at this point,
    Who is out there anyway ,who can instill the discipline you need,remember coast season!
    COB

  98. I’d be very surprised if we needed 18-20 points to stay up. 35-36 or even less might even be enough this year, though we’d rather not keep it as tight.

    If you use ppg and extrapolate to the end of the season, 28 would keep you up at the moment!

    I was talking to a fan of another team the other day (I don’t work on Teesside, so work with plenty of non-Boro fans) and they made a good point about Sunderland making a habit of defying tough run ins in the last couple of years and beating the big teams because a) they have nothing to play for or b) the pressure is on them.

    So, let’s not write off those last 6 games. To put a different spin on it, 4 of the last 7 are at home and the last home game is a nice one against mid-table, hopefully on-the-beach Southampton. It would be nice to be safe before then however!

  99. So it settles down thank the lord and Sir Steve Gibson our own messiah.

    I think he is missing Leo and he misunderstood our cries of support for attack attack attack which wound him up

    Gibbo and all of us do not want any change at this critical point of the season

    We’ve come a long way since the dark days of Strachan and I wouldn’t like to go back to them

    I hope the crowd get behind him on Saturday and Tuesday and we win both games

    Third strike and you’re out!!!

  100. So thats it then,

    4 wins against Hull, sunderland, swansea and C Palace – 12 points
    4 draws with West Brom, Burnley Stoke and Southampton – 4 points
    Everything else – Mastercard. [SFA]
    Current Points 20 so Total 36 points

    Third Place [from Bottom] projected as increasing at a point per game from 16 now until the end of the season which ends up at being 32!!

    After the Burnley game we should be 10 points clear and then strong undies are the order of the day. Exciting stuff to say the least.

    In time honoured tradition, our relegation chart is being prepared with 5 coloured pens for each of the current bottom 5 and dotted target lines drawn, ready for the open space on the fridge door. A little early this still being January but what the hell, the kitchen looks drab without the holly and mistletoe.

    Maybe I can incoporate an advent calender type of door at strategic points to get a reward if we meet our target. I have a handful of Hendricks minatures that would go very nicely should the occaision arise.

    If we do get up there and have to dig in for the last 5 games or so then I think AK is probably our man for the job – we went up by goal difference so staying up by the same amount wouldn’t go amiss either.

  101. I see the same old mistaken thinkin repeated ad infinitum- predictions based on past performance/trends.

    This is the realm of the Roy Keane simpleton approach. It says we beat em before so we can do it again – we don’t need to change. Or they are below us in the league so we’ll beat em.

    What total & utter delusional nonsense!

    Just because other teams kick in toward the end of the season doesnt mean Boro are also guaranteed to do so.

    In fantasy lie the foundations of ruin!

  103. That is the problem with form tables…..where do you start and where do you finish.

    if i was an optimistic Swansea fan, then I would think that since Clement has come in we have won two out of three league games in January, two of which were away.

    Extrapolate that and they are out of the equation as regards relegation. That leaves it 3 from 4 then??

  104. In answer to spartak, the charts give you hope – prepare you for at least a path forward out of this nightmare, nothing to be gained from sitting miserably in some mountain hut not knowing if there is a light at the end of the tunnel. They are not predictions more a road map to glory……..

    As long as we can still believe – then there is still a chance.

    1. I said before Allan, when you face relegation you need a man who can lift spirits and energise his team. We have a manager that appears, for different purposes, not to be able to do that.

      The much maligned N Pearson is a man motivator “& proved his credentials in a similar situ.

      AK, I believe, may melt under the pressure. The crowd comment was merely a hint. With him at the helm the ship may sink.

      MAN THE LIFEBOATS -WOMEN & CHILDREN FIRST!!!!!

  105. Lads, it could be worse. Whilst we decide whether AK having a strop about whether “Attack Attack” constituted encouragement or a perfectly distilled insurgency against his reign of tactical terror, our North East neighbours up the A19 are planning on selling their best defender to a relegation rival and replacing him with Lescott. The same Lescott that spent the second half of most Villa games last season thinking about his new Mercedes.

    Either David Moyes is a closet Newcastle supporter, or this is some brilliantly conceived plan to try to avoid relegation and make it a greater achievement than Big Sam’s Big Escape last season – “look, I did it with Lescott in defence!”.

    It brings our problems into perspective somewhat.

    On Boro-related transfer news it has gone awfully quiet. Aside from the rumoured (rejected) bit for Snodgrass there doesn’t seem to be much movement. I would hazard that Snodgrass is our A target and that Bojan is then the B target incase Snodgrass doesn’t come off. Of course, if for some reason we lose Ramirez (currently sidelined with Window Muscle Strain), then perhaps we will see both of them grinning somewhat sheepishly with Bausor.

    Fees for Snodgrass seem to be an issue, but it Van Aarnholt is worth £12M, then I can’t see us getting change out of £10M for Snodgrass, regardless of his current or prior knee-knack status.

    A week to go and the excitement is palpable.

  106. As I posted the other day there were two league matched before the window closes, some points on the board would be useful, only one opportunity left and that is against the Baggies.

    The last time good ship Boro was sailing on the premiership briny, we had the Unholy Trinity on the bridge. None of them saw the iceberg approaching.

    At least Spartak is panicking early to avoid the rush and is busy doing lifeboat drills, do OAP’s get the next places after the women and children?

  107. So as Werder predicted earlier it seems everything has been smoothed over and the outburst against the fans brushed under the carpet. This is the second time this has happened (Charltongate being the first) so if (when) AK throws another wobbly will it be three strikes and out or will the brush come out again.

    If, heaven forbid, the West Brom game results in another home defeat, it will be very interesting to see what happens then.

    1. I think its a case of what has changed and if the answer is nothing then we all know what’s going to happen the only thing is timing and we won’t know when although I suspect many of us would predict sooner rather than later.

      Of course maybe something has changed and maybe things will change. Maybe we will sign (and actually play) two or three new arrivals who are far more creative than we currently have including Ramirez. Maybe Negredo will be better integrated and start scoring or maybe Negredo will be “rested” and players played on merit and not reputation of former past glories or favouritism.

      So it looks like we just continue “as is” with the possibility of the atmosphere starting to turn after Saturday’s strop with fans no longer willing to blindly believe. Maybe AK will ultimately get the atmosphere he has earned in his eyes. I suspect the latter which ever way our future goes. His reluctance to change games, use Subs etc. will be challenged more vocally than it was at places like Southampton and at home on Saturday unless results take an upward trajectory.

      Can’t put the lid back on and “it is what it is” as his predecessor used to say!

  109. Or maybe serenading us with something more like…

    When they begin the Boroguine
    It brings back the sound of supporters so tender,
    On this a night of more F.A. Cup splendor,
    It brings back a memory of goals ever seen.

    I’m with you once more under flood lights,
    And for you I have three strikers playing
    It’s the defence that I seem to betraying
    When they begin the Boroguine.

    With apologies to Julio Iglesias and Cole Porter in equal measures….

  111. West Ham are putting a bid of £8 plus add ons for Snodgrass. Are we playing a waiting game or is that too rich for us?

    Is it Mr Bojangles we really want? Or some Jesse?

    I tell you what I want, what I really, really want. In to the fifth round of the cup and three points off the Baggies.

  114. RR.
    I can’t fail to agree with your sentiment that the 3 points is far more valuable.
    However, I think there is also a great need here for the “feel-good” factor that a good cup run will bring. It can generally lighten the mood and bring a sense of optimism. If all we have is the week to week grind of a relegation battle, that depressing cycle just might suck us down.
    As gets said often enough, winning is a habit so lets help get that wining habit with victory against Accrington.
    By the same token, if winning is a habit, then so is losing ….. so lets not go there.

  115. I can’t get remotely excited about the Cup whilst we have far more pressing matters to attend to. I literally feel zero excitement about Saturday whether it be Accrington or Arsenal in the Cup.

    Perhaps if we were sandwiched in 8th or 10th spot in the Prem I’d be more up for it. If we played a few fringe players and got beat I’d almost be glad to get the monkey off our back and be able to focus fully on survival especially after Saturday.

    Winning next Tuesday is all I’m focussed upon, everything else takes a back seat. My worry though is that AK will be focussed on a 0-0 draw next Tuesday hoping that those around us get beat and looking at a 5 point gap as a great psychological victory. With West Brom now much improved since we last played them (and frustratingly were there for the taking) 0-0 may not be such a bad result but one we can ill afford the luxury off now I fear.

  117. Going out of the League Cup early this season hasn’t helped us one jot and I’d love to see a good FA Cup run.

    Thanks to the recruitment pattern…we have a massive squad and with not too many league games left, there is little chance of fixture congestion.

    I know it’s only the fourth round but Accrington is a free kick into the last 16 and cannot be ignored. My best, and worst, Boro memories revolve around the cups and while the FA has ensured the FA Cup is not what it once was, it still has a soul and excitement the league rarely matches for teams like the Boro.

    The Wolves defeat in 1981 still rankles for me as does the farce around the ’97 Cup final while Steaua and the Carling Cup are unsurpassed as treasure trove memories.

    It’s unlikely (a Chinese godfather aside…) that this club will ever be Premier League champions and the league ambition of this season will not sustain fans or the area for long.

    Sunderland still live on 1973 and Bob Stokoe etc and while I know it’s living in the past, I’m envious as anything.

    In the 1970s and 1980s (to a lesser degree maybe) the FA Cup counted as much as the league for fans everywhere, the dream of Wembley magical and for most fans a dream was all it ever would be.

    I remember thinking as the Chesterfield player (Dyche?) ran up to take their penalty in the ’97 FA Cup semi at Old Trafford that ‘I can’t believe this happening, no third division side ever gets to the FA Cup final and it’s happening against us’. Thankfully it didn’t but there were 35,000 or so Boro fans there that day who will remember far more about a game 20 years ago than any of this season’s league games to-date.

    We have to stay in the PL clearly but if it was a choice between winning the FA Cup or staying up, I’d take the Cup. We have recovered from relegation setbacks before and will do so again but we’ve won one trophy ever so we can’t ignore any opportunity to progress however far. A cup final would be another eight games max, we can deal with that.

    To invoke Danny Blanchflower, it is a glory game and accident of birth or upbringing aside that’s why the cup matters. In 30 or 40 years it will be forgotten by most people when this team went down but the recollection of a FA Cup win will last last a lifetime.

    I know a cup run can compromise a league position (but does it really given that it’s about winning) but to hell with that, we should go for the cup and its glory. Otherwise what else have we got?

  119. I want a win in the cup and three points. Saturday is a chance for game time for several players and the chance of a win.

    I listened to a couple of players talking after Bournemouth’s demise in the last round, Mathew Upson was one of them, they said that a win was good for the squad, a defeat was a downer. The fringe players had muffed their chance, the players look forward to cup matches.

    The three points are more important but a win in the cup is a boost.

Leave a Reply