@brissyred me thinks most desisions on the player contracts are up in the air. Until we know if we will continue in the Champioship or not. Up the Boro!
@brissyred Are you suggesting Woodgate had already decided and those decisions are inviolable?
Or are you suggesting someone else has made those decisions for him ie Gibson? This line of thought would suggest Woodgate had less authority than the Club would have liked us to believe.
Plus it further suggests decisions are being made on financial grounds - which is not unreasonable - but without football input - which could be considered foolish.
How does everyone else read the hiring/firing situation at the Club?
Chris - without being unkind to the club, I have a suspicion that the hiring and firing side is not being managed by anybody!
i don’t think JW had as much say in things as we were led to believe and if I were a player whose contract was expiring, I would either want some kind of assurance what was likely to be offered in return for my continued efforts.
it is similar to any of us who have been told that we will be made redundant at the end of the month. How many, hand on heart, would say that we would then give 100%?
If we were told that our redundancy would depend on how well we performed, then we may take a different attitude depending on whether we wanted to stay or go..........
In the end I wasn't that surprised to see Warnock arriving. I only recently suggested that I would seek help from Pulis. But just temporarily 😉.
But I liked the agenda of last summer. Putting more emphasis on home-grown talent and young players. And giving the manager some three years to do that. But then our league position became fragile. And the performance was the worst for a while on Saturday. Xmas decorations coming down brings to mind - and it lasted until July now!
But what is our long term policy? Do we play attacking football with spring in the steps with youngsters? I mean next season.
I cannot see much continuity in our recent manager appointments. We would save a lot of time and money if we had a Boro playing system and every manager hired would follow the club policy.
Our last few managers:
- Mowbray: attacking football
- Karanka: ultra defending
- Garry Monk: well unknown but he bought some attacking talent (Britt, Fletcher & Breithwaite)
- Pulis: well, not very attacking minded
- Woodgare: 4-3-3 and high pressure game plan
And now we have Warnock. I quite like the guy and respect his doings in the Champioship. But cannot remember his Cardiff being very nice to watch.
So what next in the summer? At least the new manager (is it Warnock after eight or twelve games) is able to start wihout some PL salry players. Warnock want his 1 500 games reached, but will we keep him long term?
I agree with Chris above that Warnock could be temporary. He will be 72 years old in December and he has earned his pension already. Interesting times ahead, again.
Up the Boro!
@brissyred Are you suggesting Woodgate had already decided and those decisions are inviolable?
Or are you suggesting someone else has made those decisions for him ie Gibson? This line of thought would suggest Woodgate had less authority than the Club would have liked us to believe.
Plus it further suggests decisions are being made on financial grounds - which is not unreasonable - but without football input - which could be considered foolish.How does everyone else read the hiring/firing situation at the Club?
I suspect that those decisions were taken a while ago, probably before or around Christmas time. I would imagine that Woodgate would have had a reasonable input.
The club may have changed direction now but it’s likely to be too late to change summer plans for this group.
@Werdermouth Seconded. Also a welcome back to @ForeverDormo, who posted earlier.
Here, here. Glad to see old friends back.
Jonathan Woodgate was born in January 1980. And for Neil Warnock Boro becomes the 17th stopping point for the 71-old who first cut his managerial teeth at Gainsborough Trinity back in 1980.
I presume Jonathan was born before Neil started to manage. So both celebrate their 40s this year. 😉.
Quite a difference in experience. But more often than not, Gibbo has been more successfull with rookies than veterans. Karanka, McClaren & Robson versus Mowbray, Strachan & Pulis.
Up the Boro!
Jarkko - whilst we saw more success with the rookies, maybe not so much Southgate, this make no allowance for the amount of money that had to spend. Robson McClaren and Karanka were given fairly large transfer budgets which helped. Mowbray and Pulis were all about reducing the spend although Strachan mis spent his pot!
Just watching a re-run of the Euro 2000 semi final between France and Portugal. Abel Xavier at FB brought some memories back. We’ve signed our fair share of nutters.
Pity we couldn’t have signed Zidane. What a player!
@pashley41
pedro
The more defensive set up (which I agree with) will demand two players who might score on the pitch.
Wing is certainly one of them and I would pick young Tav. as the other.
The time for wishing and hoping that Britt would smash one into the net is long past. We had five home matches to save ourselves, one of them was flung away with gay abandon.
Now it is serious, four home matches, plus four away.
Winning an away match would require a miracle, so let's regard that out the window, (if it happens it happens) lets not put too much pressure on our new manager, he deserves better than that.
The problem we have is that the bottom three do not regard themselves as without hope, they have had a four months rest, and, more importantly time to think.
They realise that the ball is round and will bounce where it will, if they chase that ball and continue to kick it towards the oponents goal then they may win the lottery.
See recent results of bottom clubs. And be afraid.
Plato
It’s worse than that, only 3 home matches against QPR, Bristol City and Cardiff. The other 5 against Stoke, Hull, Millwall, Reading and Sheff.Wed are all away.
I go back to the side I hoped for for the Swansea game (minus Ayala for obvious reasons)
Pears
Shotton Moukoudi Fry
Spence Howson Clayton Coulson
Roberts Wing
Fletcher
I go with Pears purely because he has played the most this season and is most familiar to his defenders.
A back three provides our best hope of dealing with crosses, something we will have to be very cautious of against Stoke.
Howson and Clayton are selected both as holding players - the Leadbitter/Clayton of today. Their role is purely to shield the defence, plug the gaps left by the attacking wingbacks, and supply those wingbacks as well as the creative Roberts and Wing with the hall to feet.
The wingbacks are our pace and width. Encouraged to beat players and supply crosses and cutbacks, whilst still getting back to support when we don’t have the ball - two of the most important players for us.
Roberts and Wing are free to roam. Find space - Roberts to run at the opposition and Wing to find those pockets where he can use his passing and shooting from distance.
Fletcher is the best all-round striker at the club: Mobile, makes decent runs, has power (though has not yet harnessed it) and is the trustiest finisher we have.
it’s almost five defenders and five attackers in what I think is a balanced side with the key ingredients of pace, width and solidity if disciplined.
Just before Woodgate got the sack I was about to post my thoughts on a team. To an extent it almost doesn't matter what formation you choose because the players no longer have any idea how to play together anyway. That said, I would go with 3-4-3
Pears/Dejan - doesn't matter which one just pick one and stick with him so the defence gets used to him
Fry, Moukoudi, Friend (only left-sided defender we have)
Spence, Howson, McNair, Coulson
Tav Fletcher Roberts
My thinking is that Shotton and Wood can cover defence and Howson/McNair can also too.
Spence and Tav can work together down the right while Coulson and Roberts do the same on the left
Johnson can fill in on the left & McNair can do the same on the right if Saville comes into the middle
Fletcher has done well as an inside left alongside Britt so there is an option there. Gestede has done well when there's pace around him and players actually playing off him because he can disrupt defences. He's actually a pretty smart footballer, not a physical target man to hump the ball too.
Biggest gap is that there's no room for Wing but he has struggled as a central midfielder but has no experience as an inside left removed link Also, it's clear that both Britt and Fletcher are best when played in a 2.
I have no idea what team Warnock will pick. I suspect it will be based on which players in training actually seem to be up for the challenge now there's a new manager.
@chris-hunneysett Chris Nothing that has happened since his appointment suggests his input would have been other than minimal in my opinion.
Even Karanka was reportedly given players he said he didn't want which makes me question Woodgate's input given his experience and the fact that out of 3 of his preseason picks 2 are out on loan.
I also think decisions are made taking into consideration financial AND football reasons. The question is which takes precedence? For example the sale of Randolph to West Ham probably made more sense financially than for football reasons.
You can include me in the 'Welcome Back' too Dormo.
Old Coathamians have to stick together. (OLD being the operative word in my case).
Jarkko - whilst we saw more success with the rookies, maybe not so much Southgate, this make no allowance for the amount of money that had to spend. Robson McClaren and Karanka were given fairly large transfer budgets which helped. Mowbray and Pulis were all about reducing the spend although Strachan mis spent his pot!
I think "Rookies" is not exactly true in the case of both McClaren and Karanka. Sitting beside Mourinho and Fergie at Real Madrid and Man United prepared them well. It may have been their first Management post but they had both served very credible apprenticeships at World Class clubs. That is a major differentiator between those two compared with Woodgate and Southgate who were literally thrown into the bear pit untrained and ill prepared.
The Robson era was a different time when SG was throwing money around like confetti, bringing in top World Class stars. His wealth then was considerable in footballing terms and we were outbidding "big" clubs to bring names to the Riverside. Nowadays he is a relative pauper in footballing terms and is no longer able to compete with Russian and Arab money. Considering the resources afforded him I think Robson under achieved with what he had to work with despite it being successful relative to the clubs history at the time (and arguably still is). The arrival of El Tel just underlined how he struggled with the technicalities of the game which at times seemed beyond him.
I’ve just completed another attempt at AV’s predictor and discover that Boro might end in the same position as they occupy at the moment, saved from relegation on goal difference. However there is one caveat. Sheffield Wednesday are due to face misconduct charges this week and an 8 point deduction would place them on 41 points at the moment, the same as Boro but with a far superior goal difference. Would an 8 point deduction help Boro, I’m not so sure as they host Boro in the last game of the season. Not only did Boro suffer a 1-4 defeat to the Owls earlier this season, but Boro have history in being relegated at Hillsborough before. I’d much prefer Boro playing the Owls if the home team were already safe from relegation with nothing to play for than it being a relegation decider.
Jarkko - whilst we saw more success with the rookies, maybe not so much Southgate, this make no allowance for the amount of money that had to spend. Robson McClaren and Karanka were given fairly large transfer budgets which helped. Mowbray and Pulis were all about reducing the spend although Strachan mis spent his pot!
I think "Rookies" is not exactly true in the case of both McClaren and Karanka. Sitting beside Mourinho and Fergie at Real Madrid and Man United prepared them well. It may have been their first Management post but they had both served very credible apprenticeships at World Class clubs. That is a major differentiator between those two compared with Woodgate and Southgate who were literally thrown into the bear pit untrained and ill prepared.
The Robson era was a different time when SG was throwing money around like confetti, bringing in top World Class stars. His wealth then was considerable in footballing terms and we were outbidding "big" clubs to bring names to the Riverside. Nowadays he is a relative pauper in footballing terms and is no longer able to compete with Russian and Arab money. Considering the resources afforded him I think Robson under achieved with what he had to work with despite it being successful relative to the clubs history at the time (and arguably still is). The arrival of El Tel just underlined how he struggled with the technicalities of the game which at times seemed beyond him.
True, RR.
But I was thinking more in line that Southgate was resonable good but had to do a lot of cost cutting. He was no worse than Pulis or his succesor in Strachan.
Also Woodgate needed to do cost cutting, compare him to Strachan, for example.
So every manager is unique, but wanted to say that experience does not qurantee success. As Pulis and Strachan proved.
And neither does money as Monk prooved.
All this makes football interesting 😊. Up the Boro!
- @andy-r lowest goal scorers lowest number of wins in the league we are where we are for a reason
I blame the golden thread, not a patch on the white feather and seemingly perma crocked (Typical Boro) as I haven't seen sight of him all season!
Re doing the Exmil challenge had me thinking!
What if Hull had sacked McCann and brought in Warnock?
Hmmmm.........
Interesting article from AV for those who may not have read it yet:
Re doing the Exmil challenge had me thinking!
What if Hull had sacked McCann and brought in Warnock?
Hmmmm.........
I doupt Warnock had accepted. Who would take the owners at Hull?
Up the Boro!
Interesting article from AV for those who may not have read it yet:
Totally agree with AV in there.
"Teams that chop and change in the dug-out and in style rarely prosper and flourish." Very true.
Just wonder if AV pops in here time to time to get some ideas as this must have been here first. Up the Boro!
Interesting question, the straightforward decisions on who to sell (utterly vital) were obviously made by those with the power, and I do not know who that might be.
The one point I would make is that all the sales were of Good players, I cannot recall a single sale which was cheered by the fans, in fact we now have a collection second to none of players who are pointless and useless eating us out of house and home.
I will refrain from even speaking about the hundred million player. To find the crowd very angry, and those who should have known about his value screeming ' it wasn't us, and the nasty agent did it, and we don't care so there!' Was of course a new low.
The ultimate problem for us is Steve Gibson (yes I know that he has been very kind to us fans) but consider the following, lots of clubs are controlled by a Steve Gibson, and it only works if they are a football nut, and I do mean living it 24-7.
That means saying things to the manager like ' you are not signing that fullback he's too slow' or, 'I want you to sign that Young winger because I loved the way he played against us '
In other words, be the suppremo.
Any other way is to used and abused by 'expert's' .
See the Spurs Chairman.
He would have not tolerated the endless playing of our two strikless strikers.