It does bring into question the whole concept of building a team as if most managers are only getting 2 or possibly 3 transfer windows to achieve the goals being set by their employer then there's little room to try and bring through players in the first team squad. Though as we also see now the recruitment department is involved in adding many moneyball prospects into the squad where perhaps once homegrown players would've fitted in.
Does that mean academy prospects are then mainly sent out on loan in order for them to prove their ability and if they don't then are shown the exit. Even those who do show ability tend to be shunned in favour of transfer arrivals - look how Josh Coburn was overlooked despite looking the part and Law McCabe didn't even get a kick last season after being in the squad on many occasions.
So in that sense it's hard to see that Boro have a genuine route into the first team for academy players unless they are proven to be better than the others. Interestingly, Hackney was given his chance by Leo when he was interim manager - so he had no long-term future himself and was prepared to try out players.
Edwards has reportedly said he was keen on playing youngsters but let's see if that is still the case if he needs results. In many ways both the club and supporters are guilty of unrealistic impatience but Boro are now entering I think their ninth season seeking promotion - with probably well over 100 players brought into the club in this pursuit over that time but very few academy prospects have been given their chance.
So what is the purpose of the academy?
@werdermouth How right you are, what is the purpose of the Academy? Even the young man from swindon hasn't had a chance yet. I'm not holding my breath for any of them sadly. There seem to be strategies at odds with one another at play here, maybe having the Academy is something you need to be seen to have. Status if you like. As always with Boro to many leading questions and no satisfactory answers or clarity.
UTB,
John
It does bring into question the whole concept of building a team as if most managers are only getting 2 or possibly 3 transfer windows to achieve the goals being set by their employer.
It also begs the very important question, given the current philosophy of MFC with a Head of Football and Recruitment.
Why has the club not followed the line of most other clubs that churn their Head Coach, BUT maintain the playing system. That way their is minimal disruption within the playing staff and back room analysts.
However Mr Gibson has decided to change direction and go down another road, one that is going to be more bumpy and full of potholes. Of course the fans never get any feedback or explanation as to what the club is trying to achieve.
As werder has said, we are now entering season nine since relegation. Is the Owner really going to try for promotion through a top six finish. Or is he just going to coast along in mediocrity.
The outward signs are not looking favourable.
Mmm...£3m for an unknown quantity, whom we wish well, but who, as Werder says, will certainly take some time to settle and adapt. Wrexham got Lewis O'Brien, a proven oven-ready Championship warrior, for £5m. That looks the wiser use of money to me.
My understanding is that the total fee of Pds3 million will only be paid after a series of levels have been successfully reached by a young 20yo prospect. That seems a fair plan and very different to shelling out Pds5 million up front for a 26 year old who has struggled to find a successful place to play.
We saw what happened when Morris was injured and this acquisition seems to be putting in place a sensible piece of the puzzle.
UTB
Reports that Boro and Ipswich have agreed a fee for Hackney - I'm sure if Boro do sell himthen they would prefer to sell him sooner rather than later in the window. However, I'm not sure Hackney will be in a rush to sign for another Championship club as there's no guarantee they won't be a Championship club next season - though a 20 grand a week pay increase is an extra million quid!
We can hope. Unlike some of the other acquisitions, he has already played around 50 games at senior level and done pretty well. That puts him more in the VDB or Latte Lath universe than some of the other 'projects' such as Hamilton or Gilbert.
Having said that, it's interesting to ask how long can we wait for someone to break through. For example, is somebody like Silvera now a real prospect?
UTB
I do see him as cover for Morris initially but who knows if he settles in quickly - though the deal is up to 3 million euros not pounds. Still a 5 year contract on such a low transfer fee is unusual so the club are expecting him to come good in the next 2-3 years.
@selwynoz Let's hope the new midfielder is as good as Rav van den Berg was - that Kante gets his chance this season and hits the ground running around the Xmas time. Looks like many big clubs were after him and the club seems happy to land him. A future George Boeteng?Up the Boro!
If he is in the team and proves to be as good as GB at an early age he will be sold in January, cynical me 😉
As I said money talks especially when you are potless
Town and Middlesbrough have agreed a fee for midfielder Hayden Hackney, TWTD understands.
A fortnight ago, TWTD revealed that the Blues have been chasing Hackney all summer but that they had stepped up their interest and made an approach to the Teessiders.
We understand the clubs have now agreed a fee below the £20 million figure reported elsewhere over the weekend with Boro ultimately set to receive £15 million after add-ons.
OFB
I find it hard to imagine Boro would accept £15m including add-ons for Hackney - that would be a fire sale given the market.
Northern Echo claiming £20m - so it could be £15m plus £5m in add-ons but still not in the Bellingham bracket
Talk of a £15m fee up front supports Bob's suggestion a few weeks ago that Hackney was put up for offers, this being a final straw for Carrick. Certainly there has never been any suggestion that we were determined to hang to the player, only letting him go for an offer that we could not refuse.
This follows the pattern of seeing our academy players as representing pure profit on the balance sheet, irrespective of whether the fee represents full value, or the player might still play an important role for us (cf Coburn, Jones).
This points up what was probably the greatest point of difference between our former coach and the club's hierarchy. Carrick's strength lay in his sensitivity to the human dimensions of integrating his players into the squad, rather than seeing them primarily as commodities to be bought and sold. It was the very point made by an alienated Sam Morsy when he was forced out of the club four years ago.
Boro’s position on Hackney should be straight forward. If he wants to go then sell him to the highest bidder - if Ipswich then so be it.
From Hackney’s point of view he should not entertain a move to a Championship team but hold out for a Premiership team. If he is serious about going to Ipswich then he can only be going for the money and not to enhance his career.
Could there be more to it ? Boro happy to publicise the possible Ipswich deal in order to flush out some Premiership interest ??
Trouble is that this all takes time which Boro don’t have a lot of as they need to strengthen the team asap.
The present squad, with or without Hackney is not good enough for a top 6 position.
philip of Huddersfield ☹️☹️
@original-fat-bob, werdermouth: I trump your fee calls for Hackney as Sky Sports News report that the deal is worth over £20m, which sounds more realistic and also that Hackney has still not agreed to sign 🤔.
Come on BORO.
It could well be aimed at flushing out any PL interest by agreeing a deal with Ipswich but whether it sees any club with increased bids is another matter.
Though I'm not confident if much of the money that arrives will ultimately be spent bringing in players.
If you add up this year's deals and potential deals...
Latte Lath transfer (reported over £20m)
Josh Coburn (£5m)
Djed Spence (Add-on bonus up to £7.5m)
Hayden Hackney (£20m)
Rav van den Berg (£10-15m - £8.5m rejected)
Dael Fry (Ipswich interested - £8-10m)
Morgan Rogers (Chelsea interested - 20% of £60m)
Finn Azaz (Leeds interested - £10-15m)
Boro could in theory bank nearly £100m income from deals in 2025 if they chose to accept and encourage offers but no sign that they are ready to spend anything but a fraction of that.
Whether Steve Gibson needs some of his equity back has been speculated upon but there's little sign of Boro splashing the cash and I suspect more exits are likely in the coming weeks.
What I have heard and read from the local press, Boro do have money to spend. But of course we cannot say it loud.
I trust Mr. Gibson is as ambitious as before. He will support his manager, again.
I agree, that Hackney moving on to Ipswich will guarantee no promotion to the EPL this or next year for him. It was estimated he is on £ 6 000 a week at Boro and possibly getting up to 35 000 a week at Ipswich. That is tempting, if we cannot offer even 20 k a week.
If HH went, I am sure he will be replaced. And then we can also buy a very good and expensive striker to finally replace Latte Lath, too.
Interesting. Up the Boro!
@lenmasterman I think that suggestion by OFB and your post Len is a little unfair, certainly with regards to Hayden Hackney.
In my opinion, losing HH this summer was always going to happen given the circumstances that have prevailed. He is 23, and behind Liverpool’s Tyler Morton who is only 4 months younger. The latter also subject to a rejected bid of around 10 million. Liverpool wanting closer to 20 apparently.
HH needs to move now, if he is to progress and to also guarantee a substantial wage increase. MFC need to cash in to have the funds to bring in more players to suit Edwards’ system, otherwise why did they choose him. (something questioned on this blog)
Whether he will ultimately go to Ipswich will be down to him. But if no other clubs are ringing his (new) Agent, then he will go, as Ipswich are a better bet that MFC.
We may not like it, but this is how it works now. Sad but true. VDB will be next when the offered fee is deemed as acceptable.
I do get agitated a little when fans say we haven't spent the money from sales given you don't get all the money at once, I suppose that is why the Ipswich deal looks good to the club if most of the money is upfront.
Some of the transfer money will have been spent on players and we have bought some spanners the rest will have been used to keep the club going, we are notca wealthy club and we have to adhere to PSR/FFP
According to our accounts the wage bill is 31M PA I did a double take and we lost 30M before sales, chairman was putting in max he could ( according to football finance guru kiern mcguire ).
I much prefer that accounts summary to the one that actually gets sent to company's house - at least it's possible to follow it without needing to be an accountant.
Although the money generated from sales is often never received in one sum - likewise neither is transfer fees paid and they get spread out over what seem these days to be 4 or 5 year contracts. It's all just the tricks of accountancy as to how much counts and when - no doubt helped by the usual non-disclosed nature of deals done.
Of course it's the wages that are the killer and that's why all those various FFP or profit and sustainability schemes never really address the problem of wage inflation in football. It's often mentioned that Player A is only on 10 grand a week but that's actually half-a-million quid for a someone just turned 21 who will likely never add that value to the club for their labour. Imagine if the rest of business was run in this manner - the world would be bankrupt in months!
Why do the governing bodies actually allow clubs to make £30m losses and then look to recoup that with big ticket sales and cash injections by owners - Steve Gibson has been forced to pump in a million a month for a number of years. If at any point he can't then it's selling more players or ironically face points deductions by the regulators of the game who have failed to make the game sustainable for the majority of clubs.
A lot of the transfer fees and wages are often based on hype plus the need of clubs to compete in a market they can't really afford. What would be interesting is how Boro would fare this season if they do indeed cash in on various players - what if they still finished 10th? Do you actually get what you pay for or do the increased sums rarely equate proportionally to greater quality?
Basically football operates on fantasy money where clubs and supporters throw meaningless and unimaginable figures around with both glee and frustration. It's just down to sensible accountants to give the impression that all the beans have been counted and put in the right place so the regulators can tick the boxes.
Wife was a chartered accountant (she now takes holidays professionally ) she looked at the accounts and she said that the club is a money pit and she wouldn't advise anyone to take it on and without SG it would have drown in its debt.
I agree with everything you have said and if I was in SGs position I'm not sure I would have supported the club as he has, didn't he in effect write off 100M + a couple of years ago
I think it was closer to £150m that he converted from loans into equity - unfortunately under the current regulation and rules, the cost of being a Championship club owner is essentially a million quid a month - since if you don't do it then your club can't compete financially with about 16 other clubs. I think Boro's wage bill is about the 10th highest in the league but they are mostly of the same magnitude - barring those freshly relegated money bags of course.
And let’s not forget Birmingham and Wrexham!
Boro had a low key match at Hartlepool. The Boro youngsters were helped by Marcus Forss, Alex Gilbert and Dan Barlaser. The result was 1-1 draw with Finch scoring the equaliser.
The draw was not perhaps as bad a result as the Pools won over Leeds a few days earlier. Both Boro and Leeds fielded a rather young team with a few "first teamers".
Hartlepool United manager Simon Grayson hailed his side's comprehensive 3-0 win over a Leeds United XI on Saturday. The visit of a Leeds side included Sunderland-born attacker Sam Greenwood, who scored seven times in 45 games on loan at Championship outfit Preston last season, and striker Patrick Bamford, who was told by manager Daniel that he was "not in my plans". The Whites included also Jonny Howson.
Anyway, nothing new was learned from the Thursday's friendly. But there were about 2 000 Boro fans at present. Up the Boro!
A friend of mine, who claims to have inside knowledge (take that as you will) messaged me yesterday saying he has heard that Gibson wants to retire and back out of Bulkhaul and MFC 😱, and is owed £14m by the club, without taking into account his shares. So those who have been calling for him to go may get what they want.
Come on BORO.
@exmil Here is a link that mentions the 14 million and Mr Gibson’s money I put into MFC
I have no first hand information about these things, but that does seem to be a persistent rumour that has some legs. If it turns out to be true then I fear for the future of the club when you consider the kind of chancers, rogues and vagabonds, who see supporters as cash cows, who may be lurking in the wings
All a bit of a semantic exercise if Steve Gibson is owed money by MFC, which is owned by the Gibson O'Neill Company - of which Steve Gibson holds 75% of the shares with Michael O'Neill owning the other 25%. The group made a profit in 2024 of £27m and paid dividends to the directors of £33m - as shown in the last published accounts in 2024 - one for the accountants I suspect!
OK, Steve Gibson is 67 years old and at the retirement age and perhaps after 30 years of being involved with MFC he may think it's time for someone else to take it on.
Though not sure what is meant by the club owing him £14m - perhaps it's what he's put into the club since he (Gibson O'Neill?) converted nearly £150m of loans into equity.
Kante looks a little raw based on highlights, I hope he turns out better than Hope and Hamilton,what were they looking at.
Watched game v Pools ,the senior players didn't help themselves didn't impose themselves, some of the kids did well the RB was enthusiastic, Coulson did more in five minutes than Hamilton did for 75 awfully, Wooloson was absolute class, very assured ,
One note last seasons issue ,wide open when losing the ball, got to be sorted