Before the season kicked off in August a number of learned regular posters proffered their thoughts and expectations back on Untypical Boro – So before we pass judgement on the evidence brought before us as Boro’s season enters the dock – I’ve briefly disabled the WordPress swear filter and retrospectively swore in a jury of 12 yet-to-be-angry men (or possibly women). These distinguished pillars (other labels are available) of the blog sat round a virtual table to deliberate and give their pre-season verdict under an oath of an unwavering allegiance to the mighty Boro. They stroked their virtual beards and raised their furrowed browsers as they anticipated the trials and tribulations that lay ahead in the return to top-flight football.
So as Boro lie in their self-made death bed, it’s time to hear the truth, the whole (edited) truth and nothing but the truth of what people anticipated back in August. After donning their false beards, mustaches and over-sized hats, our puritanical disguised blog jurors opinions have been labelled 1-12 with their names replaced with a short descriptive phrase. There are some clues in their comments as to who they might be – maybe even some of you can identify them or even spot your own words in some cases. I’ll reveal which poster belongs to which number later in the week. Note, I’ve extracted parts of comments and edited down some for the sake of brevity, since many of us are not adverse to writing the odd lengthy post.
Anyway, some interesting insights mixed in with a bit of humour, apprehension and in some cases perhaps a large lung-full of foam fumes were inhaled prior to writing… So at the risk of looking like an auctioneer in a badly advised wig, doing a less than feeble impression of the Mighty Thor as I wield my small wooden hammer of truth – Order! Order! Silence in the court of public opinion…
Juror 1: Do I not like Watford?
Then, there’s the ‘do a Watford’ theme. [Responding to AV suggesting Boro could try to emulate Watford] Is that the same Watford who sacked their manager halfway through the season when they went all wobbly and then they managed to nurse the sick patient over the winning line before all the lights went out. God, how I wish we do a Watford (not!!!), as the Riverside will be like a morgue after January and even Leo will be looking through the gaps in his fingers as AK spins madly around screaming at the players in the dressing room, telling them how they simply aren’t working hard enough and he’s never going to manage such a bunch of wastlings ever again in all eternity.
Then, a draw becomes the new win. Happy Days!!!!! Bring it on.
Juror 2: Not happy with just surviving
I can’t say I’d be happy with 17th place this season – it would mean we’ve endured a hard slog of a season with very little to cheer about and will probably mean we’ll lose twice as many games as we’ll win.
So happy wouldn’t be the word for me as it would have meant our signings didn’t come off and Karanka wasn’t able to get to grips with the league and questions will be asked if another season could be risked.
I prefer to look at the PL as two or maybe three leagues – The obvious big boys of Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Spurs – plus I’d add Leicester and West Ham on the merit of their previous season.
But that leaves a second league of 12 clubs who if they get it right can finish close to eighth – but if they don’t get their act together consistently then a season around the drop zone awaits them. So for the rest, take away the PL hype and the notion of spending big equates to anything other than it often just wastes cash if the team dynamics are wrong.
Boro have momentum and have bedded in a few new signings in pre-season and have a tried and tested method of playing that everyone buys into – this means to me that I’m looking at 10th spot as proof that everything from Steve Gibson’s financial backing, the new recruitment team, Karanka’s tactics and the team spirit and work ethic are on the money.
Therefore, other than the obvious of just avoiding relegation, I don’t think anyone at the club should be ‘happy’ – perhaps relieved would be the word after the last game if that was our final position.
Happy to avoid relegation is just a cliche to disguise the fact that a club got it wrong – We’ve seen plenty of clubs punch above their financial status with Leicester being the ultimate example.
This season won’t be easy but that’s the challenge everyone should be up for – including the fans. We need a good start and the opening fixtures have give us a chance – after that it’s about keeping focused and working hard.
Prediction: 11th
Juror 3: Under no illusions
I too enjoyed last season and was lucky enough to be able to see every game. It was full of thrills, excitement, anguish, fear and every other emotion imaginable.
I’m under no illusion of what this season will be like. Points will be harder to win, and if we follow the trend of most promoted clubs nearly half of our games will be defeats. Staying up is the priority and if we aren’t embroiled in a relegation fight then it will be a bonus.
I hope all the new season ticket holders realise this, I could never understand why we didn’t sell out week after week last season when there was almost an 80% chance we would win and now people have come back in their thousands for Premier League football and a 50% chance of seeing a defeat and no doubt a couple of pastings.
Juror 4: Hoping to finish above Sunderland
Predicting a season with any degree of confidence is troublesome. There is the best part of a month left of the summer transfer window, another to come in January and, most significant of all, many managerial sackings to come. However, it has never stopped us before so what the heck…
As noted previously, I see the Premier League as consisting of three sections with ourselves in the bottom group along with Bournemouth, Burnley, Crystal Palace, Hull, Sunderland, Swansea, Watford and West Brom. There will be clubs that surprise in both directions but I think we can realistically finish anywhere from 12th down.
There are reasons to be optimistic, though – some regarding our good work, some related to our competitors relative shortcomings. AV was right to say that we are several years behind other clubs in terms of Premier League experience and nous. But in some ways we are ahead.
Take Sunderland for example. They have changed managers once again and have achieved little in terms of recruitment. Moyes will want his own players signed and to have his own ideas imprinted. It will take time.
Boro on the other hand appear to have been working towards this moment for some time. Our style and “philosophy” are established and we have recruited swiftly, in numbers and to a thought-out plan. In those terms, we appear well ahead of Sunderland and start the season with a momentum that left Sunderland with Allardyce. We can have justified hope of finishing above them.
Burnley and Hull, cannot claim to have much more Premier League experience and nous. To me, both appear to have worse squads than the last time they were in this division (no Ings or Trippier for Burnley this time) and, though I’m sure the The Clarets will be combative and competitive, I think we have passed them in the pit lane and will finish above them whilst Hull, as far as I’m concerned, are already relegated and dead last at that.
So, whilst I agree with AV’s assessment that this season is going to be very different to the last couple and we are going to have to get used to losing games again, I feel we are in a better position than 4 or 5 others – I predict 15th.
Juror 5: Heightened level of expectations
For a multitude of reasons I would expect Hull to be a car crash in slow motion so that leaves two others for the drop. Burnley and Boro would be the likely favourites and it appears that Burnley like last time around won’t be splashing serious cash, seemingly content with a Yo Yo existence which if that means the club is kept solvent and run sensibly then who am I to knock it? Just ask Leeds, Pompey or Bolton fans.
There is usually at least one “established” (even if for only a couple of Seasons) Premier club that drops out (Swansea, Palace, Makems, Baggies, who knows?) so on that basis I would guesstimate that either Burnley or Boro will survive but my heart ruling my head means I’m going with Boro of course. That 17th place is not so insurmountable after all, at least in my mind.
Now throw into the mix the arrival of a serious number crunching analyst behind the scenes. Experienced recruiters in place and consequently the arrival of nearly a full team sourced from far and wide who on paper indicate a significant uplift in both experience and hopefully quality and I am expecting more than 17th. The 17th position I reckon is achievable with last years squad so with the newbies on board I’m expecting a more credible and comfortable finish with over 45 points achieved and more likely 48 to 52 points recorded come next May.
I predict my forthcoming “whingeing” potential will be benchmarked by my heightened level of expectations even accepting of the fact that probably two or more of our recruits will be unmitigated duffers. nb. Thats a whole post and I haven’t once mentioned the Kit, Gastric Band or Adidas!
Juror 6: Keeping it short
I’ll keep it short – Boro to get 60 (Sixty) points, I would imagine that should be enough to stave off relegation.
Juror 7: Hoping for a good finish
I would like to add that we were as good as Sunderland, Newcastle etc. already last season. And we have momentum now. And a few additions to the squad – some very good. And a very good manager. So I hope we fare as well as Watford and Bournemouth did last season in the PL.
I think even AK mentioned Bournemouth as an example for Boro in spring. I see Bournemouth were 16th and Watford were 13th last season. So our goal must be somewhere between 14th and 15th in the league.
So my prediction is 14th. I hope we will do better and finish in around 10th. But I will be happy with a survival and hence predict Boro to finish at 14th place.
Juror 8: Living the dream
In my dreams I have us surprising more than a few teams this season, as well as the BBC pundits, and clocking 52 points or more. However, in my more sanguine moments when I do a run through the fixtures I realise that is perhaps not likely.
So, I am hoping for between 45 and 48 points for us this season, which should be enough to see us finish between 10th and 14th. I’ll plump for 13th place (unlucky for some).
Juror 9: Don’t drop like a stone
The vital thing this season is that we do not get relegated. 17th would achieve the same result for us this season that the promotion we were all ecstatically celebrating only a few weeks ago did last season. It’s that important,and would be no mean feat.
Consolidating our finances and our enhanced status, and providing a springboard for further development of both the club and the area are all at stake in securing that safety spot.
Of course, I hope that we do better than 17th. But I would have liked to have seen one more signing of genuine quality to augment the efficiency and organisational qualities that we undoubtedly possess in order to secure it.
Another signing of Ramirez-like quality to add some inspiration to all of that perspiration. I still believe that that is what we need to guarantee the mid-table security we all hope for.
As we know there is always one club that drops like a stone towards the end of the season. We will need to have plenty of points in the bag to ensure that it’s not us.
16th for me then, but, I’m not arguing with Ben Gibson – I’d take 17th now.
Juror 10: It does not get any better
For me, personally this is it, competing in the greatest domestic league in world football, it does not get any better and I am determined to enjoy every match as they come along. I had actually forgotten all about the coup and the Charlton debacle, I am excellent at holding grudges, but all that seems like years ago and immaterial now.
We have had a deep pre-season, cleverly structured friendly matches, each team we have played better than the last in my opinion, generally preparing well. Recruiting, we seem to have made some good prudent choices without breaking the bank while keeping the sprit together. Negredo, for me if we can get the ball to him he could be phenomenal.
If we take our chances, keep errors to a minimum, ride our luck I think a mid 40’s points tally could be achievable. If Bournemouth and Watford could do it then so can we.
Juror 11: A load of old trout
I posted some time ago we were building a squad to compete with the lower part of the table. We haven’t spent squillions though the wage bill would make us wince if we knew it. It may be we have some bargains amongst those signings, we don’t know.
What we do have to remember that summer business is a bit like a trout stream. If you stand and watch a swim you will see a hierarchy in operation. The biggest trout has the best position to take the food being washed down stream, the rest hold station according to their size.
Before relegation we were down the food chain, after it we fed on scraps, we have gradually moved up the pecking order. How quickly you get your squad sorted and with what level of quality depends on the perceived attractiveness of the club.
Last summer we were a top six championship club, the summer before a mid table team, the summer before that a club that had imploded.
Now we are a promoted club, that is all. For now. If things go well we could develop in to a Premier league side. Many come straight back down, many come down second season.
To put our summer in to perspective Bournemouth have spent £37m, Palace £23m, Watford £21m, plus of course loans etc. Others have spent less but they are all teams who stayed up and are building on that experience. They all have scouting systems and access to the same data we have.
Fellow promoted sides Hull and Burnley seem to be preparing for a swift return but you cant be certain how they will get on.
Staying up would be success.
Juror 12: Relegation certs
Prediction: 18th.
Reasons:
1. Lack of attacking threat – some very interesting signings in the summer none of which adequately address our core problem of lack of pace and creativity in attacking areas. Fischer looks no better than Reach to these eyes and once again we’ll be overly reliant on Ramirez to provide a cutting edge, assuming Karanka plays him in the no 10 role which is far from certain. Negredo will struggle, as he did at Valencia, without the kind of service that he took for granted at City and Sevilla.
2. Discipline – Karanka’s main tactic of aggressive defending, tactical fouling and harassing officials will be neutralised by much less tolerant Premier League officials applying tougher new laws. Clayton was booked 14 times in the Championship, unless he adapts quickly he’ll miss more than he plays and De Roon looks even more of a liability on that front. I predict a glut of sendings off undermining our chances in the early crucial fixtures accompanied by a variety of lame excuses from a bemused Karanka.
3. Temperament – largely Karanka’s which will be tested to a much greater degree in the high pressure environment than it was in the Championship (where he almost imploded)
4. No plan B – or, perhaps more accurately, not adapting our Plan A when things don’t go our way. If it was an issue in the Championship, how much more of a problem in the Premier League when things won’t go our way a lot of the time.
I could be wrong. We could be OK – 17th perhaps – or 16th maybe, with a bit of luck, but equally don’t rule out 19th or 20th. No one can be too sure. The only thing I am sure about is that at some point in the next few months,probably as we’re leaking a third at home against the “likes of ” Palace or Bournemouth, we’ll be wishing we were back in the good old Championship with Dimi and Grant and Albert strolling to a two-nil win against Rotherham.
Not scoring goals and losing a lot soon becomes a grind, even if you keep repeating to yourself “It’s the Greatest League in the World, it’s the Greatest League in the World…
Spot on Juror 12.
Interesting that in spite of our reputation for pessimism, as long-suffering Boro supporters, that the consensus on the blog was over-optimistic, and that the most pessimistic forecast has turned out to be the most accurate.
I recognised most of the Jurors, but not no.12. Well-deserved plaudits to him or her.
Went on a selection course during my time serving Queen and country, standing at the quartermasters door getting personal equipment he handed me a green wooly hat. On the side was painted a number (we were a number not a name!).
“So, number 1 is it? You’d bloody better be son!”
At that I cringed and walked away, all my thoughts of keeping a low profile blown away in nano seconds.
Happy days!
Actually, I know who juror twelve is…
Never mind the 12 jurors, I know where the 12yr old Jura is, hic.
12 good men (or women ) and true very true !
Perspicacity of what was going to happen safe in the knowledge that we have seen it all before and will do so again
Come on Boro three wins we only need three wins
Threee winnns yea we only need three wins!!
Oh and Sunderland to win as well
I think I know who juror ten is but where is juror eleven?
🔴 Just refresh your browser and number ten becomes number eleven as shortly after posting I noticed rather ironically for Boro we had two number nines 🙂
Just goes to show that most Boro fans are eternal optimists and, boy, do they need to be!
Werder
Two number nines would be an anomaly but could we play with twelve men for the rest of the season?
Juror 3 wasn’t far off the 50% defeat prediction with us having lost 17/35 games
Points were hard to come by and we have had a couple of pastings albeit only recently!
Unfortunately we haven’t had the bonus of not being in a relegation fight let’s hope my predictions for next season are more positive 😏
Never give up
If only points had been hard to come by. When one looks back to the opening matches, we were playing against absolute dross, five of them went on a losing streak of at least Six matches, after doing the business on us.
And we were well aware that we had a easy three points against each of them, and blew it.
The players thought ” steady does it there’s plenty of time” . There wasn’t of course.
“Middlesbrough have been charged for misconduct following the game against Manchester City on Sunday [30 April 2017].
“It is alleged that in or around the 66th minute of the fixture, the club failed to ensure that its players conducted themselves in an orderly fashion.
“The club have until 6pm on 5 May 2017 to respond to the charge.
Travesty of the first order!
FA – Do sweet fa except protect their pals and benefactors.
Bit like the Conserative Party really who give jam to the rich and foodbanks for the poor.
Spartak looks to the heavens in despair ‘these lord are your people – god help us – what an embarrassment to humanity!’
Leopards and spots.
I am surprised they didn’t charge Sane with failure to use his legs.
Ian
Why are you surprised ?
Rhetorical question of course.
Suits means suits!
The points deduction would follow if, by some freak, we finished 17th.
Unbelievable! What planet are the FA on? Should be retrospective action against City for misconduct and if the ref has been demoted then they would appear to acknowledge there was an issue with the decisions?
Spartak
Rhetorical question indeed.
I think suits have little to do with it, incompetence seems more likely. Just like if a top flight referee has a mare he is ‘dropped’ and inflicts his talents on the Championship. They have done ‘something’ so everything is fine now.
Except Clattenburg was dropped after not giving a foul on an unfair challenge on a keeper that led to a goal. the next match is Boro v Blackburn and you would expect the ref to give any challenge on the keeper as a free kick. The rest is history.
The West Ham debacle over Tevez and Mascherano was a classic. West Ham were banged to rights and caught, not owned up but tried to hide what they had done. The FA appointed independent people to adjudicate on a convoluted situation, football expected a points deduction. Lay people produced a ‘reasonable’ decision that thought a points deduction would have been unfair on fans with a large fine.
It is all typical of football governing bodies world wide. It isn’t all corruption, the vast majority is sheer incompetence.
It is unbelievable, every pundit and spectator (including on TV) acknowledges that Sane dived and it was an incompetent decision by the referee (including the FA, hence his demotion) then the Captain of the Boro team is seen by everyone to be pushing his incensed players away (thereby the club controlling their players) only for the corrupt FA to charge the MFC for failing to control their players. Is this the likes of Brooking trying to deflect things away from West Ham and their illegal dealings, we t.hought Blatter and EUFA/FIFA were corrupt but this lot beats them hands down. Is this an excuse incase by some miracle we end up in 17th place they can deduct us 3 points and relegate the Northern scum.
Come on BORO
I think you made the key point about Boro not controlling the their players – I was just thinking last night about Gibson pushing away other Boro players from the referee. If the captain of the club is not demonstrating how the club were visibly controlling their players, then what does the charge ‘controlling your players’ actually mean?
The charge is not ‘players not controlling themselves’ so it must infer that the players somehow need to be controlled – therefore if the captain clearly takes on the role of controlling incensed players and is successful in sending them away from the referee, then Boro are quite simply not guilty.
Gibson’s actions were in stark contrast to the likes of former Man Utd captain Roy Keane for example, who normally lead the charge of players towards the referee with a contorted face in an attempt to ‘persuade’ the official to change his mind.
So Boro have no case to answer – it’s a false accusation.
The only thing Boro were guilty of was to actually bring the game “into repute” by having a Captain actually control their Players in the face of either:
A) Gross incompetence from officials
B) Blatant bias from officials
It appears from the actions of the FA that the Fernadinho elbow incident and the Sane diving incident corroborates that it was at least Point “A” above. As they have already acted by demoting Friend from the Premiership for the rest of the season that surely should indicate that the incredulous reaction from the Boro Players was both justifiable and understandable.
Middlesbrough FC’s Club Captain demonstrated that he was indeed in charge by pushing his teammates away and remonstrating with them and brought proceedings under control himself despite the sever provocation caused by the same incompetent Official demoted by the FA themselves.
Compare and contrast Ben Gibson’s behaviour with that previously of the FA and Sky’s “preferred” clubs behaviour under similar circumstances and I doubt they will have ever witnessed better actions and behaviour from a Club Captain in the history of the Premiership.
Let’s see if the club contests the charge.
In an ideal world the FA would be up on a charge of bringing the game into disrepute.
Clutching at straws but silver lining for us overseas fans, can live stream all Championship matches next season on ifollow.
So pleased for you Geoff!
How’s your house price?
Beware the unpredictable bubble!
🙂
Still have a house in Linthorpe, price probably dropping quicker than the Boro
Ridiculous decision by the FA. I don’t know what much more Ben Gibson could have done to control his players.
‘Incompetent’ suits!
🙂
Here s a thought, the ref or assessor must have sent a report in to the FA. I wonder if included the referee made a shocker of a decision.
You could say the FA have punished Friend by dropping him from the Premiership and charging Boro, there again as rightly pointed out Gibson as captain did control his players.
Geoff in Melbourne re your 4.00 am post.
I would be interested to learn more about ifollow. Is it legal? Is it free? What is quality like? Is it live?
Me, too. UTB!
I think one problem is that the FA charge the club then ask for their response giving them a deadline. They have assumed guilt and there is no escaping the fact I can’t remember a club being let off.
Another problem is that if the club said as we had that the club on the field (Gibbo) had moved the players away from the officials, in other words controlling the players following a very poor decision by the ref they would then be charged with bringing the game in to disrepute.
When does the panel review the elbow in face, and award the three match ban(automatic)?
Because every time I see one of those on match of the day, that follows as night follows day.
Do we have to post the complaint ourselves? And if so have we done so?
Ii am a bot confused about Boro+. The service is not there after June 2017.
Perhaps this iFollow is taking over? For 110 BPD one can see all the FL matces – some in HD quality.
Read more at http://mobile.efl.com//news/article/2016/efl-live-streaming-platform-ifollow-unveiled-for-global-fans-3703898.aspx
Up the Boro!
For 110 GBP that is. UTB!
Reading the above Juror’s statements something immediately leap out at me. The word “Momentum”, we assumed that momentum would carry us onwards and upwards. That “Momentum” didn’t include the likes of Dimi, Nsue, Albert or indeed Ayala (for different reasons). Thats four Players but Four players who were starters in the Championship and then there were Rhodes/Nugent both pretty much discarded.
After very shaky starts which cost us points Valdes and Chambers eventually settled, Chambers a huge success and for me still Valdes is marmite. Chambers is probably marginally better than Ayala but with his injuries (or both for that matter) its hard to tell. Is Valdes better than Dimi, well historically its a no brainer but would our points tally be different had Dimi been between the sticks? Allowing Valdes the fact that he has pulled off some dazzling saves overall for me I think at best its 6 and two 3’s.
Barragan and Nsue? I’m left scratching my head on that one as I said at the time that Barragan didn’t suit our style and wasn’t highly regarded in his homeland. I’m convinced he came as a bogof along with Negredo, take both or none ultimatum. Negredo or Rhodes or Nugent? Well up until AK left I would have said no improvement or being fairer due to the lack of support it made absolutely no difference. Lately I believe we are now seeing the Player we could have had all season had it not been for AK’s tactics.
Albert or Traore? A “project” for a “creator” and a “scorer” who also had a symbiotic relationship and understanding with Nsue. So momentum was lost and the “improvements” didn’t actually improve and if anything dragged us back in the opening months, a luxury no Promoted team can ever afford.
Another observation is that most of us expected better than 17th, Hull started the season in turmoil and the word “turmoil” didn’t do justice to the state they were in. Sunderland had been in decline for years and where nailed on. Swansea done their best to implode as did Palace yet as one of the Juror’s put it “a draw becomes the new win”. To say we didn’t take the opportunity and go for it or indeed give it a go was an understatement not helped by “Momentum” intentionally disrupted.
The there was the two “R” Ramirez and Recruitment. Too many eggs were placed in the Ramirez basket when he turned out to be unreliable, unprofessional and disloyal to the club, fans, colleagues and manager who resurrected his career. Recruitment has been well discussed on here previously and is no longer worth any more dissection suffice to say that they and their projects simply were not good enough and disappointingly not even close.
“It started with a Kit” as Errol Brown might have nearly sung!
Yes right, it started with a kit, never thought it would come to this.
Spent most of our season singing to our opposition :
‘So You Win Again’.
Jarkko
Thanks for that. Looks as if those of us overseas will be able to watch each Boro game live via the internet unless the match has been chosen to be screened on TV overseas.
It sounds to me that I can become an armchair season ticket holder for £110 unless I have misread the article.
Would be interested to hear the views of others.
If the Championship games are being screened live overseas I wonder if the Club have maybe considered the possibility of a beamback to the big screen at the Riverside?
So here is an alphabetical list of the Jurors – but can you put them in the right numerical order?
Acklam Exile
Andy R
Grovehillwallah
Anthony McCarthy
Ian Gill
Jarkko
Len Masterman
Never Give Up On Boro
Powmill-Naemore
Redcar Red
Spartak
Werdermouth
Here are my guesses and I haven’t cheated by Googling!
Acklam Exile Juror 4
Andy R Juror 3
Grovehillwallah 9
Anthony McCarthy Juror 12
Ian Gill Juror 2
Jarkko Juror 6
Len Masterman Juror 8
Never Give Up On Boro Juror 10
Powmill-Naemore Juror 7
Redcar Red Juror 5
Spartak Juror 1
Werdermouth Juror 11
Now for the embarrassing bit in finding I got my own one wrong!
🔴 Brave of you to have first stab – but you could plead diminished responsibility – only 3 out 12 unfortunately
RR
I think you maybe got at least one correct if not more.
🙂
Happy days when the win becomes the draw!
I see Ziege has been grovelling about his move to Liverpool.
When it was kicking off and it looked likely he would leave my scouse mate asked me what I thought. He was going to Liverpool as a left back and as I put it ‘he wasn’t allowed to mark his own bingo card on the team bus’.
I explained to him that Ziege was schooled as a wing back in Germany, had a miserable time at AC Milan who played a back four. Did well at Boro as a wing back.
Liverpool played a back four and they conceded goals with Ziege AWOL though he did create quite a bit.
And now 4 a touch of something completely different!
I’m a bit miffed with Steve Gibson!
There I’ve said it! He has presided over a long list of managerial appointments that have included novices and hardly do well’s.
I look up the road and see the Barcodes happily chuckling away at their success with Benitez and we are once again in disarray.
Well sportsfans, I’m well sick of it. We’re talking multi-million pound business hear where his executive decisions /appointments have not only cost the club but Gibson himself.
He’s been at the helm for 30 years and fair enough we’ve had some exceptional times but the last 8 or 9 years have lacked any sustainable success.
Would someone else be better? Maybe yes, maybe no. Change always brings risk but perhaps now is the right time to do so.
Happy days
RR re you post at 1.03
Whilst this would be great for those supporters in the UK who, through financial or other constraints, are unable to get to the away games it would probably contravene the current regulation about matches being screened live in the UK.
It is my understanding that only games included as part of the TV package are able to be shown live in the UK but this does not stop them being shown live abroad and that is what the EPL are now seeking to capitalise upon – Yippee.
KP
You are probably right, I was hoping that it would apply to the Premiership only but perhaps not so much for the Championship as its never been possible before. Too much like common sense to allow clubs a little bit of extra revenue. I doubt that there are many supporters who attend other local teams games when their team is playing away but I suppose it could marginally affect away attendances.
Spartak
It is difficult.
Steve Gibson is a fan of the club but he is a dictator (a benevolent one). That is the situation with many owners but many are not so benevolent, ask fans of Hull, Cardiff, Leeds, Blackburn for example.
ManU were taken over by the Glazers and are disliked. Fans of Liverpool and Villa gloated because they got ‘better’ US owners but it wasn’t too long before they were hated even more than the Glazers.
Part of the problem is that the only person who overseas what he does is himself. A potential difficulty is that if he leaves what happens to his shareholding? I wouldn’t expect him to walk away and take his debt with him, great is he did but highly unlikely.
Personally I would prefer him to stay. At least it is our own mess.
Ian
You waft the stick in the right direction & to a degree it’s hard to disagree with your conclusion.
I suppose the days of a Jack Warner have passed and SG is an anomolly. I for one can’t think of an EPL team, apart from Boro, who have a local owner. Like each and every team it is an international hotch potch made up for the most by overseas players who are not that much better than the homegrown.
The major problem as I see it is its comprised of cowboy no nowt owners who appoint managers for the short term.
Only wish SG could identify a successful manager and then support him in the long term.
Ah, wishful thunking!
Imagine the FA committee meeting on Boro’s disciplinary hearing.
Chairman:- “Well gentlemen, how are we going to punish this club? We can’t expect our Premier clubs to travel to the outskirts of Scotland to play against a small provincial team”.
1st member:- “Excuse me Mr Chairman, but I believe that the club is based near Yorkshire”.
Chairman:- “Nonsense. It’s near Scotch Corner”
(giggles from some of the members)
Chairman continuing:- “Anyway. They need to be taught a lesson. They’ve always been little upstarts buying the likes of Juninho, Ravanelli, etc. But we showed them, deducting them 3 points in 1997”.
1st member:- “But it only worked for a season because they got promoted the next year”.
2nd member:- “We should have got rid of them in 1986 when we had the chance. Fancy allowing them to play at Hartlepool!”
Chairman:- “But we’ve got rid of them now, they can’t escape,but we must still punish them for their haranguing that nice Mr Friend last Sunday and a 3 point deduction won’t hurt them”.
1st member:- “What if we deduct them 3 points next season”.
Chairman:- “But we can’t risking them getting to Wembley again in the play-off final. Last time I managed to create traffic chaos on the way to the stadium which delayed and unnerved them, but I can’t risk doing that again”.
3rd member:- “Can’t we impose a 10 point deduction next season?”
Chairman:- “No. We can only deduct 3 points maximum unless a club went into liquidation”.
1st member:- “What about a fine?”
Chairman:- “Well £250,000 would be a drop in the ocean to a club in their position especially given the parachute payments”.
1st member:- “Well, cancel the parachute payments”.
Chairman:- “Brilliant! That should do it. Open the drinks cabinet.
Back in August I wrote; “The successful PL sides have pace, power, skill, organization and depth. We have some of those but I feel our main failings could be an all-round lack of pace, weakness at LB, lack of skillful creators and thus a lack of goals. The nine acquisitions give us some depth and strength in numbers and we’ll be meticulously prepared and organized which might just get us a par score of 15th and be good enough to keep us up, but I fear it’ll be very close.”
Then in Sept under a theme of Pre-season Expectations I wrote; “My perspective was we were the worst of the promoted teams (behind Burnley & Hull) and as historically at least one of the promoted teams always goes down we had to be favourites for relegation. The bookies agreed. We were at the bottom end of the transfer spending, our squad is at the bottom end market value wise so the “standard” expectation for me was a bottom end finish”.
I predicted Burnley, Hull, S’Land, B’mouth and W Brom would be near the bottom, almost got it right, wish I’d got our situation wrong.
P.S. Brilliant piece of writing again Werder, our one shining light this season.
“Brilliant piece of writing again Werder, our one shining light this season.”
Seconded!
With all due respect to Werder we have had quite a plethora or shining lights on this blog for which we thank you all
Thought for the day.
Wot we need is a ‘strong & stable’ manager not a chaos of the newly collected.
We need someone influential who will fight Boro’s corner with all micreants high and low. Who will provide longterm success an stability for the club and its supporters.
You know anyone who fits the above description?
Nah, me neither!
Happy days
🙂
Spartak
I know who we need
Big Jack Charlton !!
Nobody argued with him!
Sparta
If you can hold your breath and dream, just a bit. I think that Ryan Griggs just might be an answer to our problems(many)
He is , or seems to be, determined to have a shot at being a serious manager, witness his hobby running a (sizable) local club.
He will appreciate not having to rough it, with our training complex. He will have some control over the wilder decisions of the boardroom, plus he will have some sort of network of friends and supporters in the football world. And full command of the language(big point)
just to start a storm of mail, could I say that I think we all on this blog (me included) should have held our fire and concentrated on getting AK fully up to speed with English, accepted demotion and kept his skills at playing in the Champ.
No AK had to go he lost the players the fans and also his chairman and manager
He looked really stressed the last few games and his comments were erratic and not the voice of reason
Yes he did a good Job but hey nothing is forever
Ken Smith
I suspect the meeting would be more like.
Chairman :- My opening statement is that the verdict is guilty. What evidence is the for the persecution, sorry prosecution.
Prosecution ;- The players ran towards the referee….
Chairman :- Enough, the verdict is guilty. Evidence for the defence.
Defence :- Our club captain….
Chairman :- Enough, the verdict is guilty. Time for a gin and tonic.
Ian
I suspect it would be even quicker than that.
Chairman:- Are you West Ham United or in any was associated to or affiliated with aforesaid luvverly club?
Defence:- No, we are Middlesbrough.
Chairman:- Guilty as charged, whatever it was!
Redcar Red
Maybe…
The chairman’s last sentence would be ‘Is that Middlesborough in Teeside? Guilty, and the punishment is increased to three points and fined your parachute payments for a frivolous appeal’
Where is Grovehillwallah? I do miss him. After a season like this he must have shut in the shed again. Len, you must know where the shed is.
I often wondered he must have been Uncle Eric in disguise. That would have explained his timing runs for the tons pre-WordPress era. The time when there were a delay for the posts before they were published.
Perhaps as an ex-employee he couldn’t join us here at Diasboro?
Up the Boro!
Are you Juror No 7 ?
I think so… Cannot be 100% sure. UTB!
Spartak
Going back to the question you posed ‘Only wish SG could identify a successful manager and then support him in the long term’
I guess the problem is that if he is a successful manager he will be looking for a bigger club or if he becomes successful for us he looks for a bigger club and if he isn’t successful he gets the bullet..
That’s pretty much why Football Managers tenures are usually relatively short lived unless they are exceptional and at a top club and even then Mourinho for example doesn’t let the grass grow. Fergie and Wenger are exceptions that will not be repeated in the instant gratification, greed is good Premiership.
Marco Silva has achieved beyond realistic expectations down at Hull even if they do eventually drop but as a consequence Southampton, West Ham and the Watford merry go round are now all being linked with him. That then means that Mazzari, Puel and Bilic may be looking at the situations vacant list, any takers?
Redcar Red
It is the way it is overseas, the coach often has a shelf life of a year or less,. They are brought in to coach the players brought in by the club’s staff, director of football etc. In part he succeeds or fails depending on their decisions.
One of the advantages of being in Oz is that all Premiership games are live. That is also one of the disadvantages as I’ve had to sit through a lot of pretty poor stuff. Anyway, it’s taken me the best part of a week to get over the City game to the point where i can react with sanity rather than rage. Is it just Boro paranoia or do we really seem to get the rough end of most decisions. It was certainly a pleasure to see them play well but just as frustrating to know that this level produced all season would have seen us safe.
Looking ahead, i’m taking it game by game. i would like to see us beat Chelsea just for pride and even then wouldn’t expect some miracle escape.As many have identified, the key to next season will be keeping the ones we want (or can hang onto) integrating our crop of strong youngsters and buying a few hardened pros to help us fight our way out. As for the manager, the City game may well have tilted the odds a bit towards Agnew. Frankly, I think that three good results from here on in would see Gibson giving him the job.
Again, thanks to everyone for this blog. It’s a lot cheaper than therapy.
UTB
He’s givin Aggers the job jonks ago coz he ticks all his boxes for him – it doesn’t do any harm them being besties of course & Aggers is manageable -‘Yes, boss!’
Sparta
The introduction of our new assistant manager? Higgy, is a sure and certain pointer to the new manager. You simply do not hire anybody in the run up to a new appointment, why would you?
If Aggers does get 3 good results then that would certainly tip things in his favour.
There are rumours (fake news I hope) about Giggs being on a short list. I sincerely hope not as the lad has the morals of an alleycat and the intellect to match from what I have seen and heard. He apparently turned down Swansea as they didn’t match his ambition yet the word from Swansea is that he interviewed like a wooden plank. As far as an ideal manager profile goes Giggs doesn’t fit the profile of a Club wanting to build and move forwards, he has no experience and its romantic appointments like this in the past that has resulted in the club yo-yoing rather than stabilising and growing.
The last 8 years has seen us out in the footballing wilderness, last season was the best of them although still very hard work at times. Despite being in the Premiership, this season has been all about underperformance from top to bottom in the clubs set up. MFC need to learn from its mistakes and improve, if Ryan Giggs seriously wants to become a Manager then go and manage a Chester and get them into the Champions League or League 1 at least. Given a straight choice I would have more confidence and faith in Agnew but I don’t think that is the path the club should take either.
Much as I dislike the bloke (almost as much as Giggsy) but for where we are and where we need to get to I still think Pardew is the best that is out there. He can of course only take us so far which I would reckon would be about three or four places above our current predicament which would have sufficed to say the least.
Its highly unlikely that the type of Manager that will get us out of the Championship will get us to mid Premiership comfort therefore I think we should look to the next appointment being an 18 month stint. Cold, callous and selfish but that’s football I’m afraid and there is always the caveat that if he does achieve Premiership survival as in say an Eddie Howe then fine, that’s a nice problem to have but right now small sized bites please.
It’s a lot cheaper than local newspaper premium service as well
We all have our different ideas on who the next manager should be, my choice to throw into the ring is Michael O Neill, the current Northern Ireland manager. He has worked miracles with a limited squad and has served his apprenticeship. Reports I have read suggest Norwich have already spoken with him to replace Alex Neill.
Being from the Emerald Isle myself I’m reluctant to see either O’Neill go!
Michael O’Neill, if you ask me, has outdone Lawrie Sanchez. More on that when I have more time.
I’m not sure if Martin O’Neill still has it at League level. International management is an entirely different set of challenges and requirements and Michael O’Neill like Lawrie Sanchez may find that English League football is a tough gig long term.
It looks like what Lawrie did was exceptionally naive. When he came to Fulham he brought four NI heroes with him – A. Hughes, Davis, Healy and Baird – and hoped they’d have the same impact. They didn’t.
I listened to the end of an interview about Sunderland and it focussed on the fact Moyes is to stay as manager. The view was there would be unmitigated gloom amongst fans.
The other thing that was of interest was that they believed we would go down but come straight back up again. Our players are better suited to the Championship than Sunderland’s squad who are viewed as lightweight with no fight.
Probably a fair summation, we lack a bit of quality. If Ramirez had stayed on side we may well have been up with Burnley and co rather than craning our necks upward.
Ramirez had an opportunity to shine and showcase his talents but instead sulked and blew his chance for a big move and like as not silly money. Perhaps he and his agent should have taken a look at Ben Gibson constantly being linked with the top 6 clubs simply by getting on with his job and performing week in week out.
He could have been revered and talked about on Teesside for decades like Juninho instead he will be derided and classed with the Beagrie’s and Ziege’s. Maybe deep down he and his agent knew he wasn’t very good after all and Leicester was the height of his ambitions and ability, no winners and a shame for all concerned.
Just sampled Goose Island. Had to fire a few Adnams Broadside at my pursuers though who were intent on my Goose Island IPA.
So it’s back to mundane things on the blog. We can’t delude ourselves thinking we’ll bounce back 1st time from relegation. Remove the journeymen chaff + others who don’t cut the mustard.
Give youth a chance to flourish, to hopefully reap the rewards from our illustrious academy + restore (if it were ever lacking) local pride to all things Boro next season. I’ve even put my Newcastle season ticket on eBay.
If against all human / canine comprehension we survive the droop, sorry drop, then how about Gianluca Viagra for next manager ? If nowt else he’s got a great record for keeping things up.
To continue on the Hot Chocolate theme now we’re scoring goals :
‘It Started With Assist’
I had a cyst once – right pain in the arse that was!
Boom! Boom!
UTB
Apparently Aggers doesn’t know if he will be in charge next season and Gaston has a Pelvic problem, I wonder if that’s a euphemism for where Leo kicked him?
Great piece Werder, although I am struggling to place the Juror posts, even given that you have now given the twelve.
I would have probably guessed about 7/8 of the posters, but not placing them with their actual posts and with the likes of Acklam Exile and Powmill not thought about.
Nice to see RR only getting three correct (sorry RR). I would have thought that he would have been up with 5 or 6.
Although a couple have expressed views that they probably know, there have been no solid statements, which leads me to think, nobody knows really.
So much scratching of heads Werder……well done
I just hope I guessed my own correctly 🙂
The Giggs lead was from the Sun, so that’s a dark tale if ever there was one. But he is there with the Bookies, but Aggers is still odds on.
I do not know what to make of it all, may be it we do reasoably well in the last three matches SA will get it. After all he seems very pally with the boss.
I would not choose somebody without at least EFL experience and success at the level they have operated at, including finance….eg Wagner.
Even Wagner and Monk have had a sticky end to the season with their results falling away. That type of management outcome has a “Typical Boro” ring all over it.
Both of them potential but I think we need a definite experienced head who knows exactly what it takes and knows what he is doing now, not someone who in 3 or 4 years could be great. The chances are that in 3 or 4 years he won’t be with us then anyway. Plan for today and let tomorrow take care of itself.
RR
Wagner is a million miles from Monk, Monk got Leeds playing, looked like he might reach play offs, hit a flat spot and it was gone.
Wagner, now there’s a story, performed beautifully all season, tucked in third behind two front runners who never flinched, kept his team right in station about four points behind them both as at least four teams tied together super runs as they hurled into the top six.as it became apparent that both the leaders were going to see it out, he started resting his team in spite of screams of anger from wannabe playoff candidates, I believe ten changes?
Got to admire him, watch the play offs, he will be the bet prepared of the lot, sounds like a good bet to me.
Here are the votes of the Derby jury
Juror 1 Spartak
2 GHW
3 NGUP
4 Len
5 Powmill
6 Redcar Red
7 Jarkko
8 Anthony
9 Werder
10 Andy R
11 Ian Gill
12 Acklam Exile
Elsewhere the Council elections are a grim foreboding for Monday against Chelsea, the blues are thrashing the reds.
It is only council and largely rural so voting probably not entirely as per the whole population.
🔴 That was an improvement on RR’s effort – but only just with 4 out of 12 – not as easy as I thought though 3 different correct ones
Oh no, affecting rural spots. Yeek, I’m a Dalmatian living rural 🐾🐾
For now I’ll post Scott Anthony’s 2007 piece on Martin O’Neill. You’ll note I quoted from it pretty heavily recently after finding several similarities to Aitor.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2007/aug/15/1
“…Arguably the most highly praised manager of his generation. He’s passionate, hugely likeable and eccentric… But I’ve never bought the argument that because Peter Taylor and Micky Adams were unable to fill his boots he is – as is often argued – the new Brian Clough.”
“The Premier League’s ridiculous financial disparities make a modern-day Clough impossible, but if his heir does exist, surely he couldn’t be seamlessly replaced by Gordon Strachan?”
Pinning down that list of Jurors is proving tricky so I’ll give a little help
– Redcar Red and Ian both got themselves correct
– They both got Spartak right as number one
– RR got one other correct from the last three
– Ian got two of the first four correct
– Ian’s other correct one was also identified by Dormo
– Neither got me correct as I was number two
BTW thanks to Billog and Pedro for their comments on the articles.
Werder that sounds more like an “O” level maths conundrum.
If Mary had 123 apples and 74% of them were Red, Bob ate 16 apples of her apples and 4 of them were badly bruised how many Green apples did Jane have?
It depends when you checked them cos they all turned red by the time YFB #(Young Fat Bob) had finished scoffing 16 of them ……
Fabrizio Ravanelli is apparently joint second favourite at 10/1 with Betway for the Boro job alongside Giggs and Pearson whilst Aggers remains in pole position. The recently discussed Michael O’Neill is 12/1 and Roy Hodgson 14/1.
Hope the Bookies have it all wrong!
What about Juergen?
It looks very much a done deal over the manager, his buddy, plus another local, oh my, how the mighty are fallen.
Just for the record, the last manager was a great success, we had fun, he did things differently,(it was needed)
He threatened to get us promoted, then got us promoted, gave us some quite pleasant moments against some top teams. Then proved slow off the mark in the Prem. That single fact blew us out of the water(and the prem)
When you see him on the box spouting football talk in English, plus a few jokes, you will find he is a decent manager.
Just had a go at assigning the Jurors (without using Werder’s hints)
It really isn’t easy although you sometimes thing you know who it is on the tip of your tongue , and then you read the next one and that could be the same poster!!
Anyways, here’s my effort:
Juror 1 – Never Give Up On Boro
Juror 2 – Werdermouth
Juror 3 – Grovehillwallah
Juror 4 – Ian Gill
Juror 5 – Redcar Red
Juror 6 – Spartak
Juror 7 – Jarkko
Juror 8 – Powmill-Naemore
Juror 9 – Andy R
Juror 10 – Acklam Exile
Juror 11 – Len Masterman
Juror 12 – Anthony McCarthy
PS, don’t know what’ shappened to my wee Scottish Flag ficture…. I’ll have to find where I have left it and get it reassigned !!
🔴 Not a bad effort there Powmill – 6 out of 12 – also if you read the hints you should get at least eight correct.
Has Vic jumped off the transporter after Teesside votes in a Tory mayor?
Well for sure there’s no Tory miners!
🙂
you wont find many on either side who have done a days work.
So the club has accepted the charge of failing to control their players but have offered a plea in mitigation.
A realistic response in my opinion but I hope that as far as the mitigation is concerned that they make reference to the fact that Ben Gibson our captain made strenuous efforts to calm down his team mates and to try and move them away from the referee who had made an extremely poor decision!
Ian
Still in shock at Tees Valley turning Blue.
It will be interesting to see how he copes with having to work with five Labour Council Leaders.
20% turnout!!!
Wot in the name of God’s teeth makes that a valid democratic choice of the people?
Anythin under 50% and the job should b scrapped.
In fact given the parlous state of democracy in the UK in local election and referendum, surely we should have Plato’s form of republic – the unwashed, stinking, bovine masses are to stupid to vote. What are they doing watchin Corrie all day.
There is no hope.
How much they going to pay in salary for this excuse of a politician?
This democracy business doesn’t seem to work very well – when you get a high turnout it’s because the people have been whipped up by the right-wing press to give the ‘wrong’ answer and when there’s a low turnout it’s just the hard core on the right that turn up to give the ‘wrong’ answer. The left is just too passive until they reach breaking point and then they bypass democracy by having a revolution instead.
£37•5 kpa
So after Powmill’s latest attempt at naming the Jurors I think we’re getting close – so a few more hints
– Powmill got six correct including 4 of the last 6
– He also spotted me and Redcar Red in the first 6
– Though he missed out on Spartak and Ian
How can you miss out on Cromwell’s number one supporter?
😉
Oh my word – mention Cromwell.
‘Off with his head!’
🔴 Congratulations! Your cavalier approach has netted you the ton – BTW do you want a basket for that head…
No thanks Werner as I’ve already got a bucket on top of it !
🙁
I thought you looked a little pale…
Nicely mopped up the hundred there Spartak …. and i’ve got my picture back !!
Well, West Ham neatly took the pressure off Chelsea. Wouldn’t it be fun if there were three away wins this weekend for Boro, Sunderland and Everton.
Alternatively, of course, we could be relegated by Tuesday.
UTB
Brilliant post (again), Werder. I have been meaning to post for a while but haven’t found the time (how do you do it?). Also, belatedly wanted to thank RR for his excellent write up of the City game. Possibly your best yet, RR, and you’re building quite a portfolio.
With a little help from previous posters, My guesses on the Jurors:
1 Spartak
2 Werder
3 NGUOB
4 Andy R
5 RR
6 GHE
7 Jarkko
8 Powmill
9 Len
10 Acklam Exile
11 Ian
12 Anthony McCarthy
Well done to Anthony by the way. Spot on.
Well Done Andy! that’s all 12 correct and some pretty good insights in those comments. Anthony McCarthy has demonstrated once again an uncanny knack for predictions – which is why he’s no doubt top of the Exmil Challenge! head over heart again and I’m still wondering if he’s thought about troubling the bookies.
I on the other hand, along with others, were caught up in the fumes of optimism – though I still stand by my statement that 17th would mean the club have failed to be prepared for the PL.
And thanks for your remarks – much appreciated!
Well thanks to Andy’s timely solution to the Juror poser – Now that has been sewn up I can post my just-completed Chelsea pre-match piece and the crucial impending battle at Stamford Bridge…
https://diasboro.club/2017/05/06/chelsea-v-boro-match-preview/
Hartlepool played brilliantly in th second half to come from behind to win 2-1 only to be relegated when Newport scored a late winner against Notts County.
I’m gutted for them after a brave performance but it goes to show that if the Boro can emulate Pools’s determination on Monday miracles could still happen.
Sunderland did us a favour today and they could do us another one next week by beating Swansea.