Boro’s head coach prepares for the judgement on his start

by Diasboro, posted in Uncategorized

Championship 2019-20: Weeks 9-10

Sat 28 Sep – 15:00: Boro v Sheff Wed Tue  1 Oct – 19:45: Boro v Preston Fri  4 Oct – 19:45: Birmingham v Boro

Werdermouth looks ahead to the verdict on Woodgate’s first ten games…

In the supreme court of public opinion on Teesside, all eyes in recent days were on the ponderous methodical deliberations of the eleven representatives on the pitch rather than those of that other more ennobled eleven who have recently been in the news. Jonathan Woodgate’s surprising decision to suspend entertainment by using his prerogative powers to switch to a less progressive tactics placed the head coach under scrutiny.

As the Boro faithful prepare to reach a verdict on his first ten games in office, the case for the defence appears less watertight than had initially been expected. However, the main objection at Cardiff was that there was little evidence to show that the offence had looked charged after there were no shots on target, which has probably summed up proceedings so far this term after the shift in emphasis has often failed to be upheld in front of goal. In some ways it has been the story for much of the season as Boro have often been guilty of playing with an innocence that has often lacked conviction.

Finding the right balance between the defence and offence has proved difficult for Woodgate and it seems we’re still in the trial and error phase of his tenure. Plus the general lack of any options on the bench, silky or otherwise, may be objectionable if any kind of consistency is to be sustained. After declaring his desire to play a high-pressing game with a preference for a 4-3-3 formation, the switch after only seven games to a back three with essentially two functional defensive midfielders playing in front them will likely have limited appeal on the terraces.

It seemed a strange tactical decision given that the previous two games had seen a 2-2 draw at Bristol and a entertaining victory over a lively Reading side. There were indications that the team were beginning to show signs that they were heading in the right direction by playing on the front foot and asking questions of the opposition. It was therefore unclear what drove the radical shift in how Boro approached the game against Neil Warnock’s team, which appeared aimed at stopping the opposition rather than building on the recent positive performances.

Whether it indicates a change in direction for the Woodgate project will perhaps become apparent in the coming games but the whole Raison d’être of his appointment was to take the club in a new exciting direction with a shift in culture from the safety first methods of his predecessor. Of course, playing with a back three is not necessarily a negative approach but without progressive wing-backs and ball-playing central midfielders it would be unlikely to prove effective towards the team offering that much-vaunted increased goal threat.

Indeed, Woodgate almost left himself open to claims of cultural appropriation as he shamelessly dressed up in the old-school clothes of Tony Pulis for the trip to South Wales – with a few even worried he was only moments away from donning the trademark baseball cap and starting to shout at his players from the technical area to play it long. It’s often a dangerous game to start imitating without fully understanding the nature of the key ingredients required and the Boro head coach may well take heed from the furore that one unfortunate manager of a well-known Swedish outfit experienced last week.

OK, admittedly it was the UK manager of food at Ikea, who was forced to apologise after their stores paid homage to the traditional Caribbean dish of ‘Rice and Peas’ by serving what appeared to be rice and peas? OK, many dining novices out there may not immediately have spotted the schoolboy error Ikea made but those unfamiliar with such matters were reliably informed that in West Indian culture the ‘peas’ are actually kidney beans and not the ever so English garden peas that had adorned the Jerk Chicken plate. Who among the impulse furniture purchasers of suburbia knew they were witnesses to such a culinary crime?

Nevertheless, Ikea found themselves accused of cultural appropriation in Tweets by offended customers after some pointed out they’d even used the wrong kind of rice to accompany those offensive garden peas. While it’s clearly disappointing for customers who experienced such an unflattering imitation, I’d personally be more concerned on just how literally they’d interpreted the Jerk Chicken. Still, just imagine how those on Teesside would feel if the furniture store ever started selling Parmos with a little bit of grated parmesan cheese instead of half a kilo of melted luminous cheddar – many would barely be left with the energy to make it through the maze of the never-ending in-store corridor, let alone have the will to assemble anything they bought.

Talking of trying to assemble something with dubious instructions and without all the necessary tools, Jonathan Woodgate’s collection of remnants left over from Aitor Karanka, Garry Monk and Tony Pulis purchases appear to be missing several crucial pieces with the summer bargain arrivals so far being unable to make them into a unit fit for purpose. Whether the need to square peg unsuitable players into a dynamic 4-3-3 has meant Woodgate has decided that he must pragmatically delay his shift towards his desired philosophy is uncertain. Perhaps the head coach is doing what many new managers in charge often end up doing once they settle into the role and simply start over-thinking and instead try to disrupt the opposition’s game plan at the expense of their own.

The reality is that Woodgate has few credible options on the pitch and it’s only taken a few injuries and a dip in form from some key players to leave his squad looking inadequate for a hopeful outside chance of a promotion challenge. Maybe the Boro coaching team are starting to focus on the immediacy of getting points on the board rather than the long-term ambition of developing a new playing style. OK, it could be argued it was just one game but what if Boro had ended up grinding out a victory instead of that own-goal defeat? Would that have led to the tactic becoming the favoured way to play? It still might but it was pretty far removed from what the team under Woodgate was going to be about and Pulis-lite is never going to be Liverpool-lite no matter what the result.

Take away the entertainment and I suspect a mid-table team of uninspiring drift will quickly become the downfall of the new head coach. Many have probably accepted the inexperience and lack of quality signings as a necessary result of financial restraint, but if the vision of heading towards an exciting brand of football becomes just an aspiration that must await the arrival of better players some time in the future, then patience will be short-lived if results are not significantly improved.

Boro now have three games in a week before the next proroguing of the football season as we head towards another international break. The first on Saturday sees Garry Monk return with his new club Sheffield Wednesday after he was sacked by Birmingham over a dispute involving the use of his agent James Featherstone in the club’s transfer dealings – something that was also echoed by Steve Gibson in the summer over the purchases he made at Boro after the owner claimed it had cost the club several million pounds after the duo were allegedly complicit in hiking the asking price of transfer targets such as Ashley Fletcher.

The former manager will no doubt receive a deservedly loud vocal reception at the Riverside, though it’s unlikely he will be dropping in after the game for a glass of wine with the chairman. Incidentally, Monk is still only 40 years old but is now onto his fifth managerial appointment after also having spells at Swansea and Leeds – it could be argued that he has performed worse with each post he has taken up and perhaps it will highlight the nature of managerial merry-go-round to Woodgate as he starts his career in charge. Although, the Owls new manager has currently avoided defeat in his new post after a win and a draw against two of the teams relegated from the Premier League in Huddersfield and Fulham – third time lucky hopefully.

Before Boro head to Birmingham for the Friday televised game to face Monk’s previous club (who still have his former assistant Pep Clotet as caretaker manager), Tuesday sees Boro entertain a Preston team that are currently up in third place. After recovering from two defeats in their opening three games, Alex Neil’s side have put together an unbeaten run in their last five games that have seen them drop just two points from the maximum 15. Both of these home fixtures may well determine the shape of Boro’s season and Woodgate can’t probably afford to lose either and indeed must win at least one of them. It will take the new head coach up to his landmark tenth game in charge and the point at which he will face a judgement on how he has fared. The table below shows how Boro’s recent managers have fared in their opening ten games in charge.

          W   D   L    F    A   Pts
Karanka   5   2   3   15    9   17
Monk      4   3   3   11    7   15
Pulis     4   2   4   14   11   14
Mowbray   4   1   5   12   11   13
Woodgate* 2   4   4   10   14   10
Strachan  2   2   6   12   14    8

* updated after game 10

Needless to say, failure to win either of those games could make him one of Boro’s worst performing new manager after his first ten games since the club’s initial relegation to the Championship under Southgate. The good news is that he can’t replace Gordon Strachan at the bottom of that mini-league as he already has nine points – plus if he were to win both games then he’d be up there with Garry Monk himself on 15 points and above his predecessor and mentor Tony Pulis. Whether as another Tony once said that the hand of history is upon his shoulder is possibly overstating matters, but to quote yet another Tony, life under Woodgate looks like “It is what it is.”

635 thoughts on “Boro’s head coach prepares for the judgement on his start”

  1. Someone asked Anthony Vickers if Boro might be drawn into a relegation battle this season. The next two matches will answer that, because with the 10 match rule being an indication of where a team is going, this season’s fixtures show an imbalance in matches played with Boro particularly. In Boro’s case 6 will have been played at home and only 4 away, so anything less than one more point from the next 2 matches, and Boro may well find themselves in the bottom 4, but two wins unlikely to have Boro higher than 8th.

    1. Hopefully a relegation battle is not on the agenda but the danger is if Boro were to lose their next two games then the direction of travel will be certainly downwards. There are quite a few teams below us with arguably better squads and players, especially Stoke and Huddersfield – plus I didn’t expect Derby to be struggling even without Frank Lampard. Indeed, other than Luton, Barnsley and perhaps Wigan, I’m not sure if the other teams currently below us are where they will ultimately finish. The Championship is a league where teams that under-perform can easily get caught in relegation battles so Boro need to start getting results to avoid it being the kind of season that becomes harder to make progress.

  2. I love digging out old records. For example Chelsea might have easily beaten Grimsby Town 7-1 in the Carabao Cup last night, but in the two post-war seasons they couldn’t beat them in four League meetings. In the 46/47 season Grimsby beat Chelsea 2-1 at home and drew 0-0 away, and in the following season won 3-2 at Stamford Bridge and drew 0-0 at home.

    I well remember also Darlington beating Chelsea 4-1 in a FA Cup 4th Road replay in 1958. I hate the smugness of the current Premiership’s top six. Let’s not forget the 1999 Second Division Playoff Final at Wembley when Manchester City were 0-2 down to Gillingham going into added time but scored twice to take the match into extra team and then won the penalty shoot out.

    These two ‘giants’ of the Premier League haven’t got the RIGHT to be in the top Division (no club has). Didn’t Boro beat Man City 8-1 as recently as 2008. What goes around comes around, and only Arsenal have an unbroken sequence in the top League since the First World War, and indeed since the Section World War as well. When the Sky money runs out, Boro might become one of the Elite teams in English football. Sadly it definitely won’t be in my lifetime, nor during the lifetime of most bloggers on this forum, but who can say it will NEVER happen? Just saying like!

  3. One positive that can be taken with recent formation changes is that JW has come to the conclusion that 4-3-3 is not one size that fits all.

    His willingness to adapt for different opponents is good, but of course it will not always have the desired effect. A ten game appraisal may be a little bit unfair considering his relative inexperience as a manager. His position seems fairly secure so I’m prepared to look again after 20 games before passing further judgement.

    ( another tour de force Werder, and not a Humbug in sight)

    1. Thanks GHW, I think if Woodgate were to come away with no more than a point from the next two home games it would put him under pressure from supporters but Steve Gibson would be unlikely to be contemplating another managerial change. I think his biggest risk is moving to a more defensive football but not getting results – especially at home where the terraces have seen too much of that in recent seasons.

  6. I’d go along with GHW and be patient with our novice manager.

    I’d also go along with GHW and say that was another great piece Werder. So good to have something in life you can trust and depend on rather than the shambles that are our nation’s leaders today.

    1. Cheers Powmill, though I just remembered that I forgot to add my Lord ‘Panic’ line to the piece 🙁

      As for the shambles you mention it is perhaps understating where the whole mess or rather calculated mess on all sides has now arrived – I almost feel nostalgic for the days when many politicians were people of principle (generally), intellect and wisdom and not simply self-deluded opportunist looking at how best to maximize their poll rating. It’s deeply embarrassing and I’m almost leaning towards revoke now – though that’s my British citizenship…

  8. Werder: “the usual”.

    I’m not sure what to expect from Boro now as we are still lacking a clinical finisher. The home games have been a lot easier on the eye this season but we should be converting more of the chances we create. Unfortunately, JW doesn’t have any real options to the BA/AF combo, so he and Keane have got to find a way to get the best out of them as well as hoping for goals from midfield.

    I agree with those praising Bruce Rioch. Although I enjoyed the 73/74 smashing of the league under big Jack, Rioch will always be my choice for Boro’s best manager for his success against all odds plus his loyalty and integrity in our darkest hour.

    1. If only Boro could hit Werder’s heights!

      It’s doubtful if Rioch’s achievements will ever be surpassed if for no other reason than it would mean us running out of cash, being relegated to League One and then totally dependent on our youth getting us out of the mess. Then again?

      On the Striker scenario. I’m afraid its just not happening at the moment either because of them or because of tactics. Either way for me its time to mix it up and change things and I’d go with Browne and Tav. Both are more direct, play with the ball at their feet and not reliant on service or looking for crosses into the box. With Johnson. Wing and McNair supporting I think that would be a lively, quick, slick, potent task force for the opposition to deal with. Taking BA and AF out of the heat may also refresh or re-energise them and longer term do them both some good plus it keeps people on their toes and ups the intensity for places.

  9. The definition of a League is ‘an alliance of people or groups that combine for protection and cooperation of its members’. Disgraceful decision then that Football League members should vote against Bury’s readmission to the Second Division especially as they gained promotion from that League last season. Too much self interest from member clubs in my opinion.

  11. Been away to the fjords for the last week or so, beautiful scenery.

    The loss to Cardiff was no great surprise, now on to the Wednesday game on Saturday. My son bought tickets to the game at Xmas and has begged forgiveness ever since. He has compounded matters by sending a birthday card with a picture of us both at the play off final!

    What will tomorrow bring? Hopefully not a car crash of a match, I will leave that to Derby County.

    Good piece Werder.

  12. Thanks Werder for another topical and enjoyable article.

    I must confess that I am extremely disillusioned with both the shenanigans in Parliament and the plight of our team.

    At present, it is difficult to see any light at the end of what appears to be a very long tunnel.

    I fear that tomorrow GM & SW will triumph and that the Riverside may begin to start to question their support of JW and the team.

    I agree with you that SG will give JW at least one season and only dispense with him in the event of relegation.

    It is often said by managers the the Championship is relentless and never more so if you get dragged towards the relegation zone.

    I have yet to see any significant green shoots that these players and the change of emphasis will bear fruit but am keeping everything crossed that things will click sooner rather than later.

    CoB 😎

    1. Thanks KP and I think Boro will need a couple of wins in the next week if the season isn’t to be seen as one where avoiding getting dragged into a relegation battle is the best to hope for. Not sure we’ll see the green shoots but I’d be happy to see some shots of any colour on target tomorrow.

  13. Werder

    Thanks for another great post which gives us the party line as it is and let’s the members realise who we support and sit for (or stand )

    Hopefully we will play well on Saturday but unfortunately will miss it as I have the pleasant task of taking and watching my youngest grandson to Darlington to play for the District and times don’t permit me to be at the Riverside.

    So Mrs OFB is going with her sister on my ticket and if I’m lucky someone will post a link to a stream that I can watch the second half

    A brilliant analogy Werder of turbulent times which will hopefully resolve itself both for the country and for our football team!

    Well Done and many Thanks

    OFB

  14. Werder,

    A fine leader as always and a metaphor our parable for our times. For Boro to put together a winning run I feel that some of the players are going to have to put in more effort and fruitful effort at that. There’s a couple of links that haven’t joined the chain up yet.

    I’ll be driving to Leigh-on-Sea in Essex for our son’s fortieth birthday so car radio on. I have a horrible feeling it’ll be another draw so I’m going for 1 – 1 but as always living in hope for a win.

    UTB,

    John

    1. Thanks John and it’s the first time I’ve heard the phrase fine leader this week so had to google it to be sure what it meant 😉

      btw Happy 40th birthday to your son – it doesn’t seem that long ago since I was 40, it was shortly after we arrived in Germany but somehow that’s now 15 years ago!

      1. Many thanks Werder, I can’t believe he’s made forty… The party is a surprise for when he returns from a business trip to New Jersey late Saturday evening. He does have a sense of humour though. He is a Boro supporter after all.

        UTB,

        John

  15. May I thank the right honourable member for Somewhere in Germany for giving way and allowing my intervention! May I congratulate him on his excellent piece and say that he has excelled himself on the quality. It is disappointing that the quality from the other place does not match the words written here!

    I have been engrossed, probably too much for my mental health, on the Brexit issue but the light relief of this article has cheered me up no end. I am hoping for some further Order to be restored on Saturday with a Boro victory although I am not expecting this to be unanimous. I predict a split vote of probably 2 1 with GM sing asked some awkward questions from the other side.

    I am departing to sunnier climes for a couple of weeks to try and get away from all the mess of the U.K. so in a time honoured way perhaps Unlock is appropriate!

  16. Well friends, I fly back from Turkey on Monday but today I had a narrow escape. I was on my bicycle when a van driver without looking in his mirror opens his door and knocked me down onto the road. I was glad there were no vehicles behind others wise it could have proved fatal. I escaped with massive bruises and cuts and shock but I am ok. Thank you to the Turkish people who came to my rescue and sat me down and cleaned my wounds etc . The moral of the story is you just never know what is round the corner. Enjoy every single moment of your daily lives. By the way the bike is ok.

    2. Indeed – that is why I tend not to ride bikes abroad anymore!

      Glad you are ok and have a good trip back – you haven’t missed much! It is forecast to persist it down for a while

    5. Glad you escaped serious injury and hope you soon on the road to recovery – albeit not behind a van. btw I’m not sure if van drivers are aware they have mirrors in the same way black cab drivers are unaware of indicators…

  17. Safe journey home on Monday, Malcolm. Just as a matter of interest where about in Scotland do you live? I know the Country fairly well, used to visit every year from the Mull of Kintyre, Oban, Gairlloch on the west to Inverness, Elgin and Aberdeen on the east.

  19. I am against Brexit. If that hapens a lot of young British people will move to the rest of Europe. And they will take our jobs on the continent.

    Luckily there is a lot of need for workers in Poland as their economy has grown a lot every year for more than the last ten years. They need urgently foreign workers now.

    Just saying, like. Up the Boro!

  22. May I also thank the right honourable Bremenman for his excellent post. I commend his statement to the house.

    As someone who believes it will take a minimum of eighteen months for Woodgate’s proposed changes to take meaningful hold, I must admit I’m left a touch apathetic about results in the short term. I don’t expect much more than enough points to keep us out of the mire.

    That said, I am pleased about the generally more entertaining football already served up, with the hope that it’s just the beginning, and remain convinced that the ideas are the right ones longer term, however difficult to achieve in practise.

    With Saville continuing to struggle and Wing not yet finding his form, perhaps Howson will return to midfield tomorrow, leaving the improving Djiksteel to continue his progress at right back/wing back.

    Despite the Cardiff performance, a back three still feels like the best fit for the squad overall but, should JW stick with that, I’d be tempted to avoid playing Johnson as the left wingback despite a good start to the season for him overall.

    I suspect JW will return to 433 in any case, which is fine, but I think some personnel changes would be wise in that case. Howson would be one as mentioned and I think we have to look at the front three also. Fletcher has scored some goals so far with a couple more good ‘uns ruled out but I think him playing as a proxy forward close to Assombalonga is leaving us exposed down that left side and hasn’t helped either Bola or Wing. Perhaps a more natural player in that role would give us more balance but the only options seem to be moving Johnson over, and therefore creating a problem on the other side, or Browne or Tav, neither of whom have convinced yet either (though both have had limited opportunities I suppose). We haven’t found the right balance yet, that much is clear.

    Boro 1-1 Sheff Wed

    1. Cheers Andy, there are probably a few amendments needed but hopefully it will get a second reading…

      I’m not sure if Woodgate will revert to 4-3-3 as he seems unable to choose between Ayala, Fry and Shotton – Howson and Johnson as wing-backs would work for me but I’d rather see Wing and McNair in midfield with options in front of them. It’s probably going to take another couple of transfer windows before Woodgate has the right players for his preferred style of playing and it’s going to be a case of will we score enough goals to keep the crowd on his side.

  23. Can’t see many goals tomorrow, perhaps 1-0 or 0-1. After the elimination of Cas in the run up to the Super League Grand Final, I’m obviously hoping it’s 1-0 to Boro.

      1. I play Wing McNair Clayton and Saville.

        Assombalonga and Fletcher as a front two. This misconception that you have to have two wide/winger type players to provide “ width”is always a bone of contention to me.

        Just keep the ball and move forward as a unit. It’s not exactly as if this present set up continually rain balls into the box from a wide position.

      2. Interesting ,GHW. To me, that looks like a very one-paced midfield with a bit of “square-pegging” going on but we all have our own views.

        Were it up to me, I’d still go with a 3412:

        Randolph
        Shotton Ayala Fry
        Howson McNair Clayton Bola
        Wing
        Assombalonga Fletcher

        There still isn’t a lot of pace in midfield but Bola could have a bit of licence to attach with Clayton covering that side and a back three behind him. Coulson, when fit, looks made for that role from what we’ve seen so far.

        Behind the strikers is surely Wing’s best position and although his form has been off he is a talent that we should build around to some degree.

        There’d be options on the beach to make it more attacking if necessary. Djiksteel could come on with Howson moving into midfield and we’d have Browne and Tav who could add to the mix with a bit of pace against tiring legs. Johnson is an option at left wing back too or to come on and adapt to a 343.

    2. I wonder if they will appeal – incidentally, it’s even more ridiculous that Griezmann’s release clause is €800m. I wasn’t aware he was so good that Barcelona would need almost a billion in compensation to replace him – though I guess it’s only a matter of time before some football player’s ego will demand a billion release clause. If only Boro had inserted a similar release clause for Adama, we’d probably be now in the Premier League…

  26. As for a prediction on today’s game, well despite intentions results at the Riverside have so far been pretty binary this season (0-1, 1-0, 1-1, 1-0) and the indications are that putting the ball in the net remains a problem. Perhaps this is why Woodgate moved towards playing tighter but you would hope he will look to be more attack-minded at home.

    Therefore, it’s hard to look beyond a 1-0 win unless Robbie Keane’s mental imagery sessions have finally implanted where the goal is in the minds of Boro attackers. Fletcher to score.

    1. Well I’ve weighed all the options up carefully considered the form and come up with the perfect forecast.

      It’s the eyeballs in the sky!!!

      Yes it’s ⚽️⚽️

      OFB

  27. What’s the point of The Tripe Supper? It’s boring enough listening to Tallentire struggling to give his opinions by interjecting with ‘yer know’ in mid-sentence, but then to have Anthony Vickers’s opinions interrupted mid-sentence by a couple of adverts makes me wonder what he was talking about in the first place. Not his fault, but I’m at an age where I find it difficult to concentrate anyway, often falling asleep in front of the TV. I’ve even fallen asleep during live Sports programmes just to be jolted by a goal or a try. Could be something to do with the drugs I need to take just to survive. That’s why I record everything so I can revert back to what I’ve missed. One advantage of course is that I never watch any TV adverts. It’s a pity I’m unable to do that with The Tripe Supper, or maybe not, because some of it is a load of tripe anyway. I much prefer to read Diasboro, as it’s there for posterity.

    1. Ken, you’re not alone in nodding off in front of the TV only to be awoken by some loud action or indeed often in my case sleeping through until after the final whistle. I also only watch programmes with adverts that I’ve recorded so I can skip through them – my remote has buttons to skip 60 seconds and 15 seconds forwards and backwards so it’s usually just a few quick presses and am back to the programme. Incidentally, a few years back we visited some friends in Australia and the TV there was unwatchable with ad breaks seemingly every 5 or 10 minutes.

  28. So it looks like a return to 4-3-3 with Ayala on the bench and Bola returning at right-back – Wing also returns to midfield to join McNair and Clayton with what looks like a front three of Britt, Fletcher and Johnson.

  29. Not happy with that team selection . But who am I. Probably the worst ever forecaster. That’s why I don’t win the lottery. So I am going to say a win for Sheffield Wednesday, which really means a win for Boro !

  31. O dear me 3 1 down after 30 minutues, not looking good!

    Should we lose, then I am sure many will be calling for JWs head – not me, still early days and providing we stay up this season, then that is fine for me.

    UTB

  34. That was a dreadful half from Boro and it could have easily been 5 or 6 for Wednesday – the players looked well off the pace and the inability to defend crosses is now becoming embarrassing. Other than McNair’s great strike we never looked like scoring, which given the three-goal deficit means there’s little optimism for a comeback. No wonder many Boro fans have already left the ground.

  36. My concern Werder is that he didn’t kick himself he merely gave a grin which is not what I want to see from my centre forward! Now he has missed another on the edge of the six yard box! 😎☹️

  38. Out with family in the peak district, dropped son and girlfriend off to walk up Dovedale. Back in to a brief bit of radio coverage and 0-2 in no time at all. Out of signal and now back home, it is a grim 1-4.

    There is no hiding place or dressing up the result. The bit of progress pre international break has now evaporated. A result on Tuesday is paramount.

  39. I said earlier that I didn’t like the team selection including leaving Ayala out. At this the stage of the season JW is proving without a doubt that he is out of his depth plus all his cronies in the back room are just as bad. I hope I am wrong but I fear we are looking at league 1. It is totally unacceptable what is going on. Bernie Slaven said that Garry Monk was sacked far to early. That point has been proved today.

  40. Well that game has at least clarified that any remote thoughts of Boro mounting a promotion challenge are for the birds. We can’t defend and our strikers look toothless – both of Britt’s misses were embarrassing and despite making changes at half time to chase the game the team didn’t manage a single shot on target in the second half. Bola doesn’t look good enough for this level and the team’s passing is ponderous and wayward. Tuesday’s game is probably must win if only to avoid being dragged into a relegation scrap as we drop down to 18th place. No positives today.

  41. I was hoping for a bit of cheer after the all the Brexit mess but Boro have capitulated and darkened my mood. I guess the positive is that I decided that I couldn’t make the trip up pre departure at 3 am Sunday!

    I think I will go on radio silence for the next 2 weeks to keep me sane although I suspect that I won’t be able to somehow!

    O for the pre internet days when you had to wait a day for the paper and have a crafty look in the newsagent abroad rather than paying to buy one!

    Over and out

    BBD

    1. BBD

      Have a safe and enjoyable trip.

      Don’t bother with social media or even a crafty look at a newspaper as it is likely to spoil your break.

      Alternatively by the time you get back Brexit will have been sorted, Boro will have won their last two games and be climbing the table and MFC’s case against the EFL will have been upheld! 😎🤣

  42. Quote from JW
    I am not the only one who is disappointed, my players are very disappointed, my coaching staff are really disappointed too.
    Sorry JW but that is a crass statement. Very amateurish.

  43. It is utterly pointless for me to comment as I missed this match (rare event)
    But the heart sinks as these disasters follow on like the knelling of a bell signalling the cataclysm that will surely enfold us as this season unwinds.
    No idea, no clue, no control.
    The record stands at present. Helped get rid of our last manager who could claim some idea about the game.
    Followed up by helping TP to blacken the name of the club by some sickening displays ( I think Wrexham will do, for those who are shouting ‘name one’) exit said Pulis.
    Enter JW.
    Cue the start of the most aimless period in the history of the club, going nowhere, with no idea where that might be. (we can of course tell him, but he isn’t listening)
    It is sobering to think that our last match witnessed the opposition hammering in three goals in the last fifteen (our keeper saved them all, but my god!, if ever a club received a warning of what was to come that club was us)
    We pretty obviously have the wrong manager.
    Action is justified, and really should be taken, like tomorrow.
    Will it?
    The jury is out on the chairman.
    Time is of the essence.

    1. I think’s it’s Newport you meant, Plato.

      I would say you’ve been one of the biggest advocates of playing the younger players (Wing, Fry) and signing cheaper, younger talent from the lower leagues (Bola, Browne). A lot of what you’ve been vociferously crying out for, you’ve got. Is there a realistic path that Boro could take that would satisfy you? Who would replace Woodgate?

      1. Andy R
        I have advocated the club behaving like a well run club should behave, and I had better state the bleedin obvious,
        Do not go around signing players that other clubs have put on the market, they are for sale for a reason, they have been found wanting for a reason. We have been exposed as clueless many times in the market.
        You cannot be buying worthless players, paying them big money, finding they are useless, unable to get rid, playing them in the team, and wondering why your team is useless.
        If you further weaken your position by selling your best players (because you cannot sell your big earners) then you had better expect big trouble.
        You will in all probability hire a local ex player with a troubled past and no experience because he is cheap, who will hire his mate as assistant. Sound familiar!
        If the rest of the league is hiring continental coaches, it might be for a very good reason.
        Remind we again, what happened when we broke the habit of a lifetime and hired a gallant continental.
        We got promoted to the sound of flying chairs, the ‘fans’ blaming the coach (the brute) as you might guess we did no good in the Prem (coach sacked to general acclaim midway through the season) office boy placed in charge (I think he lasted ten matches)
        We of course went down with a lot of money, and a couple of the continentals buys
        (sold at once for more ready cash).
        As the people who sent the chairs flying were still enjoying life at the club, you will not be surprised to find that both team and discipline (and form) were out the window and remain out the window as at present.
        Just to point out foolishness of those at the top, whilst we cannot recruit any player of any value, the only young player of any size and quality we produced ourselves during our promotion seasons was sold for not very much in a hurry (yes, yes, i’m talking about Reach) he could and should have been an ever present in our team for about ten seasons, you do not have to be an international to be a valuable asset to the club.

    1. Agreed but that is a small part of today’s catastrophe. Ayala would not have been the difference between a mauling and a point or points. That team ought to have a given a mid-table Championship side a decent contest at least.

      We didn’t compete at the back, didn’t look after the ball in midfield and didn’t show enough of anything up front, most notably composure. A complete and collective failure of both skill and will.

      The attitude and motivation of the players is of far more concern than the selection, and of course JW takes overall, though not total, responsibility for that too.

      There is undoubtedly, in my mind, a continued nervousness about playing at home which doesn’t bode well for Tuesday. They need to get over it and quickly.

      1. Andy R

        Good summary. I would have preferred Ayala from the start but it would not have made the difference.

        This was a collective failure which has been in the making over a number of weeks. This will only get worse before it gets better. 😎☹️

  46. Nobody believes what I’ve said the last two seasons.
    Apart from the fact this squad of players are just not good enough to sustain a top eight position , many overpriced when bought ,the biggest problem and why we are struggling defensively is Randolph , yes he makes saves ,many , he makes look harder than they are, but he doesn’t dominate the areas he should, stays too close to his line, and this makes the defenders nervous , teams now see it crossing . the ball to the near or far post knowing they will receive no contact from him, its free header if they out jump their marker.
    Fans have to realise were we are like I’ve said, just hope it doesn’t get too bad before January,
    Have they hired the new scout yet? Haven’t heard?
    Another thing on tees after the game ,some caller complained its Woodgates fault ,saying the same team finished seventh last season, he then proceeds to mention five players have left
    Forgetting no Gested , Friend as well , so it isn’t the same team.
    Everyone wanted a more open type of games isn’t that what’s happening?
    COB

    1. It isn’t more open, we now have a 5 watt light bulb in charge of selection and the Players know it as did the fans before his appointment. There is no structural or tactical organisation. The defence has been tinkered with beyond recognition, so much so that they don’t trust each other.

      We haven’t played open football after the opening 135 minutes of the season. Does anyone seriously believe that Woodgate made the best presentation pitch in the Summer and that it just so happens he mentioned Bola and Dijksteel as his preferred targets in said presentation? Who else was actually interviewed? Has anyone seen of even heard of a list of actual candidates? Even the Gazette have been closed on the subject in fear of being ostracised once gain and are now in full forelock tugging mode. The decision was made long before Pulis left, Woodgate was a cheap gamble nothing more nothing less.

      As regards the players who have left or are unavailable, Friend has been crocked and subsequently below par since he got inured two years ago (or was it three now?). Gestede has never been a fixture in the team and when he has had a chance has failed miserably, Besic was a rotational crab and a liability at that, Braithwaite was never here, JOM had a few decent games then flattered to deceive, Flint was agricultural and easily replaceable (but wasn’t), Hugill spent all his game time sat on his backside and Downing was less instrumental than Johnson has been this season. Woodgate may not have a huge squad but it isn’t as bad as the confused mess he has created on the pitch.

      All that said the buck stops at Steve Gibson and his obsessive Teesside cronyism. The boys with the jobs have been woeful and for some time now. They have collectively hung Woodgate out to dry and they knew what they were doing. They knew that Woodgate would be daft enough to accept the role and all its restrictions.

      For SG to continue with them and then put a rookie in charge of his Circus was always headed in one direction. This isn’t about deep thinking clever planned change management and the inevitable consequential dip before reaping the rewards. This is more clueless than Pulis with the unfortunate emphasis now on on a deluded 2 by 4 type of dense clueless. It is the Agnew debacle repeated in slow motion.

    2. How anyone can blame Randolph is beyond me, but for him we’d be rooted at the bottom of the table!

      It has to be 4-4-2 with two full backs who prevent balls coming in to the box, end of.

      1. GHW

        Been saying it for a long while, in this league you need 442 with a solid midfield who can close the opposition down when out of possession but with the ability to break quickly and effectively when they win the ball back. A good out ball can often make up for a lack of pace, if you are not blessed with speedy wingers.

        The sooner JW learns we are in the Championship and not the PL the better. 3 upfront does not at this level necessarily equate to more goals.

        Need Howson in there with Wing, McNair and either Johnson or Brown imho. 😎

      3. We did indeed have two FB’s but if they are continually pushing forward and leaving acres of space for the opposition to put in crosses at will , then we might as well just play two extra midfielders/forwards.

        The number one job for a FB is to be in a position to stop crosses.

    1. On today’s performance we looked like a team preparing for the transition to League One – there was little evidence of any pressing, high or otherwise. I don’t know if the switch last week to a back three with two defensive midfielders has confused matters as there was little sign of any cohesion, understanding or composure on the pitch. Tuesday will be a test to see if the players can react – if not then it will be harder for Woodgate to impose his methods with a team low on confidence.

    2. We are definitely transitioning but not in the way many thought or had hoped. Listening is one thing, buying into sales and marketing hype is something entirely different.

    3. BoroPhil

      Transition from what to what?

      To suggest that individuals have not been listening is disingenuous.

      We know that you only see things through rose tinted spectacles but some of us live in the real world. I say that as someone who loves this club and will do until the day I pass but I am not immune from criticising it when I think things are badly awry and they are.

      This is a club in free fall, just look at the last ten years, we are not progressing we are going backwards. Why can the likes of Bournemouth, Burnley and Brighton gain promotion and sustain a position in the PL and yet we can’t?

      To suggest that we have to expect days like today because we are in transition is naive and fails to recognise and acknowledge that the performance today was rank bad and should be acknowledged as such even by you. 😎

      2. It was an awful performance, no arguments there. But you’ve been told consistently this is a year of transition, our expectations this season are low, top half would be a good finish. So why get upset when we are performing like a bottom half team? Not sure it’s me who needs to get into the real world.

  48. Today was a chance to prove as Woodgate had said in pre-season that it was an exciting time to be a Boro supporter. He had promised to try and deliver goals at the Riverside after they had endured few under the previous management. Although I suspect not many had expected to see in the first 30 minutes a rare goal from Clayton, one from a Boro academy graduate and another from Fletcher – especially an own goal, the graduate that was Reach and the other Fletcher playing for Wednesday. It’s moments like these that we look to one man to make sense of such matters – so here’s Redcar Red with his match report (spoiler alert: MOM was an obvious decision)…

    https://diasboro.club/2019/09/28/boro-1-4-sheff-wed/

  49. Listening to the local radio commentary which I find very balanced and constructive it was clear that today’s performance was very poor.

    Indeed they declined to nominate a best Boro player which is unheard of.

    Sheffield Wednesday look a decent bet to be in the top 8. Boro look a far better bet to be in the bottom 8.

    The young players brought in, are no better than the players they replaced. – hopefully they will improve but in the meantime the team need a team of battlers and one of the first names on the team sheet should be Ayala who we all know is liable to concede a penalty but I’m sure he would be an improvement on Shotton ( an error waiting to happen) and Fry ( a lot of promise but can be bullied by the opposition )

    Can we expect a significant ( winning ) performance on Tuesday which I assume will be on the ‘red button ‘ ?

    Philip of Huddersfield

  50. In reply, I have to say that Maddo’s comments particularly on eg the pattern of play, the dangers and weaknesses of the opposition and what needs changing when things aren’t going well etc indicate he has played the game and knows what he’s talking about and he wants the team to play well and win just like Boro supporters.

  52. Firstly, many thanks to RR for his match report and having to relive the sorry mess that was yesterday. I’d have to agree with his consistent view of Bola that he’s simply not a credible option for full-back at this level. I think he’s essentially playing as first an attacking wing-back who occasionally comes back to defend and as GHW also said, full-backs are on the pitch to defend and stop crosses. I think Dijksteel is improving with each game and could become a decent player, I suspect Bola will soon become third choice at best in his position behind Friend and Coulson once they are fit.

    Indeed, the whole notion of actually playing 4-3-3 is looking suspect if Boro are not attempting to play the high press – or indeed having a front three that are rarely offering much in the way of goal threat. Perhaps 4-4-2 would be a better option with wingers who support the full-backs.

    This is the problem with the notion of being patient during what is billed as a transition to this new style of playing – at some point we need to ask if the transition is actually possible or even being executed in a meaningful way. I suspect many people’s low expectations this season are not necessarily down to accepting Boro are in transition but more about being sceptical that it’s even possible for Woodgate to execute such a plan with the resources at his disposal.

    If we’d been seeing Luton-style games with energetic pressing performances with goals and defensive errors that needed ironing out then we would see in front of us that the project is being rolled out. Sadly the summer saw very few players arrive that could move the club forward in this direction and while that may be legitimately down to limitations of resources it does mean we don’t have enough players of the quality that can make it happen – especially as the attack is looking more toothless with every game. Britt has had one decent game in nine and Fletcher appears to have retreated back into his shell again – oh and Gestede is as usual injured with the only other option the youngster Walker.

    All of which is not ideal for a plan that is designed to shift emphasis to scoring goals. Granted we’ve seen a shift in emphasis in some games towards creating a goal threat and I have enjoyed the entertainment but it’s often been down to whether the opposition have played open too and not something we can impose by ourselves.

    Tuesday is must win if Boro are to avoid becoming dragged into a relegation battle and the fragile nature of our players and indeed fans probably won’t cope well with that. So I accept Boro are in transition but it’s not clear to what – hopefully from a below average team to a half-decent one.

    1. It isn’t going to happen overnight though. There is no point in stamping our feet and complaining that we aren’t suddenly playing the way Woodgate wants to after 9 games. We can disagree on this I’m sure but there have been positive performances this season which have shown how he wants to play. Judging them on the last 2 games where we have literally shot ourselves in the foot in the first 5 minutes (and yesterday when we proceeded to continuously reload the gun and do it again) seems a bit unfair.

      There was a comment on the previous page about why can’t we be like Brighton, Burnley etc. And I think that is the problem with some of our fans, they haven’t yet accepted where we are. We go relegated, we failed to get up twice and now we have to rebuild. Like I’ve said before, look at other relegated teams. If they don’t go back up soon they struggle. It isn’t a Boro-only phenomenon. So we either give Woodgate a chance with a proper amount of time or we descend into a spiral of sacked managers, toxic atmospheres and probably league one.

      1. I’d agree that we will probably need to stick with the decision to appoint Woodgate until the end of the season unless it looked like we were indeed heading for relegation – besides it’s unlikely we’d attract too many high-grade managers now that the club have entered the downsizing cycle as the aim is probably move on the higher wage earners.

        This is essentially a three-year project where those on high wages who can be sold for decent money should be sold, those who can’t be sold like Gestede will see their contracts run down and the club will be looking for good up-and-coming players who meet the new template. I think we need to find some goal-scorers in the next two windows otherwise the shift in emphasis will see little return.

        Still, I’d like Woodgate to concentrate on getting the high energy side of the game working as the players in last two games looked flat and disinterested – we can forgive lack of ability to some extent but not lack of effort.

  53. The squad feels so imbalanced that I’m not sure there is a shape that perfectly fits. 3412 or a Xmas tree 3421 looks the best to me but it really doesn’t matter if you don’t to the basics.

    I don’t think there will be a change of manager any time soon but if there is, I hope it’s on the basis that the execution of the plan isn’t good enough, rather than abandoning the plan.

  54. Thanks RR for re living in words the nightmare that was yesterdays game. I too have become resigned and disinterested as I am failing to see how these players and this management team are going to get us out of this mess.

    As Werder has so aptly put it in his 9.00am post, is the transition possible or being executed in a meaningful way.

    On the evidence so far the answer is no and we appear to have a management team who are fire fighting from one week to the next. I have not seen a coherent plan or consistent style of play which will come good anytime soon and nor do we appear to have a set of players who will roll up their sleeves and battle for the club or the fans.

    It said it all for me yesterday when BA missed the first of two golden chances that instead of showing anger or frustration at his miss he merely turned away and grinned.

    I fear this is all going to get a lot more frustrating and disappointing before it gets better and getting better could be a very long time coming.

    I normally take Mrs P out to dinner on a Friday evening unless of course the Boro are playing when we will switch to going out on the Saturday. Needless to say we are going out this Friday.

  55. Ken

    I listened to Tripe Supper, what struck me was how unprofessional the adverts were. They should be in a natural pause such as when they are going to change from Monk to the next topic, not in the middle of a Vic sentence!

    A note to Woodie, October comes on Tuesday……..

    I dont think he is in danger yet, the problem he has is the lack of resources, there is no Boat, Barry Robson, Leadbitter in the squad to be the boss on the pitch. There is no Gate at the back.

    Barnsley play Brentford today, we could do with both losing, failing that a draw.

    1. If Barnsley win today then the reality of the situation hits home.

      Another inept performance on Tuesday against a functional fifth placed Preston side (and I wouldn’t bet against it) could see us well and truly in the clart. Then we have Birmingham on the box on Friday night and it all adds up to a massive week. Being under pressure now isn’t the ideal preparation for two games in quick succession but conversely of course it doesn’t leave long to wallow. This time next week could be pivotal for MFC.

  57. I don’t get to very many games these years, so I’m lucky that I rarely get to witness lackless and luckless performances live. So, many thanks to RR for suffering that on many of our behalves and relaying it back to us just as it really is.

    Its interesting that yesterday’s result has generated quite a few more entries in here than for quite a while. Is that just patience beginning to wear thin so more concerned voices are coming forward to be heard?

    Let’s hope that those of us who were wanting to give the current management a little longer than the obligatory 10 games are not going to be made to look a little bit like fools. Just at the moment though, that seems as if it might be a forlorn hope.

  58. Interesting that Scott Wilson from the Northern Echo have awarded Bola a 2, and Britt and Fletcher a 3 each. Its a bit frustrating that I proposed to drop the front two, questioned Bola’s ability at this level and wanted a back three and all this days before the actual match.

    Being wise after the event is one thing, highlighting the bleeding obvious while those responsible for such things can’t see the wood for the trees is a reason for being highly sceptical that it may indeed be forlorn hope already.

    Still, its always darkest before the dawn and all that.

    1. Bola is struggling. I’m sure there is a player in there but for whatever reason he hasn’t started well. On the forwards, I don’t see what we can do – you suggested Johnson and Tavernier I think, neither of which are strikers and I can’t see being successful. Unfortunately the squad dictates we have to stick with them.

      1. I think Bola may have something to offer on the Left Wing pushed further up but he has very little defensive awareness or tackling ability. His reading of the game and anticipation of the next phase of play is just about non existent which means he is constantly caught out in defence.

        It was Browne and Tavernier I proposed and whilst neither of them are Strikers I think that what we are currently going with make an incredible impersonation of being non Strikers. Britt is getting close to the tipping point where I’m wondering is he playing to get sold on? Those penalty misses plus yesterdays efforts tend to lead me down that path. Either way they need dropping as they are contributing nothing whatsoever.

        Tavernier has a calmer disposition and I’d have put money on him putting both those opportunities away yesterday. We have played for several seasons without a “No.10” and survived so we can play without two non scoring, none threatening ineffective Strikers. As things stand Paddy McNair is our most likely to score player so I’d even stick him up top in preference to what we have. They may be listed as Strikers on websites but they couldn’t score in the Bongo.

  59. Thanks to Redcar Red for his report as I was in two minds what to do yesterday afternoon. I decided I’d watch the golf from St. Andrews on mute and listen to the Radio commentary on Radio Tees at the same time, but after the third goal switched off the radio and turned up the volume on the TV. Seems I made the right choice. I passed the anger stage many moons ago, and now share RR’s apathy. As he says, it is what it is.

    There have been many times in my lifetime when I’ve been angry at Boro, from the dismal Cup display as a First Division club losing 1-4 at home to a Second Division relegation threatened Doncaster Rovers in 1952 to the abject FA Cup surrender to Cardiff City in 2008 when seemingly only Portsmouth stood in our way to a second Cup Final appearance. As RR says it is what it is.

    However when it’s a League match there’s always hope that there’s another match forthcoming to make amends. At the moment I can’t see Boro beating Preston on Tuesday, but most of us will recall 2006 when a Boro fan threw his Season ticket at Steve McLaren during that woeful display and 0-4 home defeat to Aston Villa only to beat Chelsea 3-0 a week later. That season ended in a never-to be-forgotten European Cup run to Eindhoven. Now it’s impossible to compare that team with today’s, but sometimes a jolt after a dismal match can ignite the rest of a season. As I recall it was an early goal that Boro scored against Chelsea. Although Preston might well be favourites on Tuesday night, could an early goal reignite this season and see Boro climb the table? Or will a defeat followed by another one on Friday have Boro 3rd from bottom?

  60. You may have something there Ken comparing the current plight with the season ticket book throwing incident. It may be a springboard, in fact it has to be.

    Reading the press today and other social media websites it appears the Honeymoon period has closed early for many. Indeed listening to the commentary of the video highlights on the MFC website itself was pretty damning with a level of incredulity.

    I’m thinking of the last time we witnessed a major revolt or protest such as the fans walking out in disgust yesterday. The “Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack” against West Ham upsetting Karanka was probably the last time. Pulis sailed very close to the building frustration and was fortunate to have ran out of season before the revolt really broke surface. Before that (and the worst one) was away at Barnsley and Mogga. Ironically we are now dragged back to that almost identical position, skint and with an ex local CB in charge before Karanka came in.

  61. I think Ken is right about the first goal on Tuesday. Confidence both on the pitch and in the stands is fragile and I think if we concede first we will be done for.

    I expect the players to be fired up from the off to put things right but that could drain instantly if we concede. It will almost be as bad if we score early but they then equalise quickly. I do the players are worried about playing at home more. How different things might have been if those goals against Brentford had stood but that’s been and gone.

    Our two performances on Sky so far – both away – have been decent and I’m less concerned about that than Tuesday’s game.

  62. Redcar Red

    Thank you for your incisive and straight talking match report which was liked by Mrs OFB who read it before I did.

    She asked me to pass on her thanks and she actually saw the game which I missed as I was at Darlington pleasantly watching my Grandson captain his district side to a resounding victory

    I did hear part of the game on the way back home yesterday and after the 4th goal went in I switched off As apparently the Boro had already done also.

    Sometimes it’s and advantage being disparate or should I say desperate about our results as you can sit back and think yes we didn’t deserve anything today.

    I haven’t RED any other match reports and I don’t intend to as I have seen the unvarnished truth in its bare entirety!

    Thank you for taking the trouble to post it I shall not read anything about the Boro until I go on Tuesday night (unless it’s raining then I might stay at home!)

    OFB

  63. Well some fans are at it again , like they have always done picking on one or two individuals and blaming them for everything,
    The manager always gets it, Brit now?
    The midfield are abysmal everyone of them, never dominate their opponents ,don’t score goals, can’t defend set pieces, how does the so called engine room get away with it.
    I’m hoping we survive this season,and I expect at least nine new signings coming in before next season.
    Enough is enough of this incompetence on the field.

    1. The Manager dropped his best and most experienced CB and incidentally Monk used height advantage and high balls into the box as a tactic. Its just a shame we hand’t come across that Nuhiu bloke before and who would have thought he would have actually been picked?

      Our Manager then compounded things further when he reverted to a back four with a LB who is totally lost at this level. Its just a shame the Manager doesn’t have much experience as a CB otherwise he just may have been able to call on that to organise his defence. To give the Captaincy to one of his youngest and most inexperienced players is simply intellectually staggering.

      Britt has skied three consecutive penalties and continually misses easy gilt edged opportunities ever since he arrived and never delivers against the better top half sides. A flat track bully in every way but one who seems to think that huge cheesy grins are acceptable in a competitive arena when he fails in his art. Fletcher has something but needs to toughen up and stop playing like he is a 13 year old, testosterone goes a long way in this game. If the audience consisted of eight year olds then playing like Bambi may endear him to them but that falls a little flat in front of Teessides finest brickies, roofers, scaffolders and roustabouts.

      There were huge misgivings including a #ABW on FMTTM well before the appointment of the Manager. That he was appointed anyway along with the dragged out supposed interview process with the conclusion that he was the most suitable candidate seemed to coincide with flogging as many season cards as possible when Pulis departed. Woodgate was unveiled when the impending start of the new season meant it couldn’t be delayed any longer. The local papers constant hints throughout the farcical process that Woodgate was the stand out candidate when names like Jokanovic and Hughton were being talked up told the truth behind the hype and spin.

      Why were there not enough “new” signings in the Summer? Why are we in September and now waiting for January? Was it a huge shock and surprise and the summer transfer window suddenly caught Bausor, Bevington and Gill unexpectedly? And then we have the Chairman and Owner himself who is taking the most stick of all on social media. His huge back catalogue of goodwill has zero value to those aged under 40 and its showing.

      Clayts probably had his worst game in a Boro shirt but the defence was a disorganised shambles behind him. The midfield was over run but considering they were supposedly going to play this high tempo quick passing and movement game is it any wonder they looked like they hadn’t a clue who was supposed to be doing what, where, when and how?

      I don’t think the fans are picking on one or two individuals, they are by and large picking on MFC as an entirety especially those in positions of influence. From a personal perspective I “picked” on three players in midweek well before a ball was kicked and all three managed to exceed even my worse expectations repeating their collective failings as if to script. With that level of accurate predictability it questions an awful lot from a lot of people.

      I doubt we will see nine new signings in January. If we are not careful it could be too late by then anyway especially if the current confused mixed message selections and tactics are not brought under control. Transitioning or converting something is all well and good but you can’t refit a ship if it is sinking.

    2. GT
      The major fault with Britt is missing absolute sitters, his record is abysmal from five yards, and I do not think we can blame midfielders for that.
      You will notice I do not speak about his love of penalties, taking them, that is! Unfortunately not scoring from them.
      I still laugh at him grabbing the ball when Traore was on a hat trick (and had won the pen himself) it makes you think, we may have got a better price for him with a hat trick to his name, so perhaps it is poetic justice that the fools who allow whoever grabs the ball to miss the penalties missed out on a few Bob in the transfer market.
      He is overall, a pretty poor striker with not much idea in front of goal. As ever, pay too much, and big wages, and long contract. He ain’t going nowhere anytime soon. When does his contract run out?

  64. Well at least Barnsley lost today but we dropped a place to 19th since Brentford won – perhaps an indication of how the club stand at the moment is the fact that the other two clubs just outside the relegation zone in 20th and 21st and a point below us are the only two clubs we’ve beaten this season in Wigan and Reading – we’ve yet to play any of the bottom three so they are the worst we’ve played so far.

    This is perhaps the worry in that we’ve had quite an undemanding start to the season in terms of fixtures and have struggled. Being in 19th with also two of the other three club’s we’ve manged to take a point off in 18th and 17th (Millwall and Luton), having not beaten any team above us should start to ring alarm bells. Preston appears is a must win game but in truth not getting beat is probably more important.

    1. To be in that position before we enter October is simply staggering. Unless there is a seismic shift in something and very quickly we have to cling to the hope that Barnsley, Wigan, Reading, Stoke and Huddersfield continue to struggle and manage to screw things up more than ourselves.

      How much longer the fans will be complicit in all that is very questionable. Yesterday wasn’t a great indication of support for “one of our own” as it was originally spun in July. Even the Gazette seem to have taken stock of their stance today with some early signs of reality creeping in. Shame when it was all so very predictable.

  65. Never seen so much vitriol on social media about Boro. Very worrying times indeed. As RR previously said most people didn’t want JW as manager including myself. I thought Gary Monk comments after the game were far superior to JW. What a mess again. SG runs a very profitable business why the hell can’t he do the that with his football club. He I think relies on too many hangers on. He sacked Gary Monk too early and now he has a big decision to make ref to JW. My own view now is and I am being ruthless here, is to sack Woodgate and his cronies and get some one in who will bring his own staff and not rely on the old pals act, which has haunted Boro for years.

    1. I think the sackings need to be far higher up than simply removing Woodgate. To remove the Manager when the exoskeletal structure isn’t fit for purpose wont change much and will just cause friction if or when a new Manager wants things done his way. The newly appointed will have to conform and be accepting of the situation and good Managers don’t do that and with good reason.

      Claims of Narcissism have been levelled at SG previously, I have no idea if they are true but certain proclamations from the Club would give that impression even if unfairly. I don’t particularly ascribe to the sweeping pigeonholing of people but individuals with a tendency towards those traits don’t like criticism and tend to surround themselves with individuals who know the sensitive boundaries and operate within them. Great when things are going well but disastrous when ruthless self examination is required in tough times.

  66. I mentioned nine signings before next season starts, not January ,
    I’m not here to defend any part of MFC, especially those in decision making rooms.
    I try to stick to the field of play, because that’s what fans pay for , not cocktail parties after a rare win.
    Its my opinion and I am hoping someone as a plan, plans however sometimes take time, sometimes you want to pull teeth , but at the end of the day if you employ people who wouldn’t know an excellent footballer with the qualities required to help the club be successfull your in big trouble.
    We’ve had scouts who are guessing or hoping or listening to friends in the game, and are not up to the job, its obvious.
    Clubs like Leicester ,Palace you know the others ,five minutes ago where way behind us, then what happened?
    Too many in Gibsons ear, including those in the local media, hyping average players, when results were poor,fans who only see motd highlights to compare.
    If I was Gibson I would scrap the local element ,sack the lot and bring in some real talented professionals from whatever country ,that’s if he really wants to push us upwards,maybe he doesn’t care ,he’s OK with things.

      1. Original fat Bob
        Your remark re. No money is true.
        But as us know nothing fans screamed at the time.
        Please god not him (at this point you can I insert your own preferred name) with a further scream at the price, and yet another at the wages.
        The hope is always that the law of averages will land a winner, it did not, (and I must say with the very honourable exception of Karanka, it never will)
        The financial dealings will not stand examination.
        As simple addition will tell you that we have handled colossal sums incoming, when compared to what is required to run a failing Championship side with very moderate players.
        Just to start the ball rolling.
        150 in total for promotion
        20 for Traore
        5-6million for Reach
        10 for the Leeds striker
        There are a few others
        Plus we could have had good money for a shirt sponsorships in the Prem. We much preferred some dreadful local pawnbroker
        No me neither?
        I do hope that no one tallies up the dross that we have bought with that golden pile of money, because us fans have shed enough tears by now.
        These worthless dummies have beggared us and blocked young players who were much better than them, and are still doing it.
        It is quite funny to read thoughtful comments along the lines of ‘young so and so is perhaps not quite ready to displace some worthless donkey who rarely makes the effort’

  67. Just want to thank RR for his (very well scripted) alternative match report.

    Like KP my expectations this season set out not to be too high. Top 10, maybe a little higher. Then when Mr Gibson tightened the purse strings, I thought mid table. Now that is looking very suspect, considering we have not played any high fliers until yesterday.

    The present squad although short on numbers does have a fair number of players who did OK, forgetting entertainment, under Mr Pulls. I want to give JW a fair go, however he and his side kicks are looking very naive and limited in tactics at the moment.

    Let’s hope I am wrong and he turns things around.

  68. I feel much less to write about after a loss. And especially after Saturday’s result. Perhaps I am depressed ….

    But I do look forward to Tuesday as that is the next match to put on a show. And delete the memory of Saturday.

    So some positivity.

    Anyway Woodgate will stay as long as we stay out of bottom three. And until January anyway so no changes there.

    Up the Boro!

    1. It’s perhaps ideal that Boro have got an opportunity tomorrow evening at the Riverside to address the performance on Saturday. I was beginning to think Boro were showing signs of starting to pose the opposition a goal threat after the Reading and Bristol games but the setup for Cardiff was an odd decision for me given that not only didn’t build on those results but was step backwards in altering the mindset of the players to the new template.

      Nevertheless, Reading had managed 18 shots on goal in that game and but for a string of great saves from Randolph we could easily have come away with nothing. Indeed, in that 1-0 win Boro only managed two shots on target and that is still a big issue with whatever tactics employed. If Boro allow the opposition so many attempts on goal and fail to hit the target themselves then the probability of winning games will be diminished.

      Even the more impressive display at Bristol saw the opposition muster 18 shots on Randolph’s goal but at least Boro themselves exceeded that with 22 efforts and 6 on target. The players have taken a knock with the last two defeats and their confidence will be fragile at both ends – Britt will know he missed two sitters and that adds to the pressure, which is only relieved by scoring.

      I would expect to see the players ready to go from the off and we basically need an early goal – though I’m not sure if either the players or crowd could handle another early goal conceded. It’s an opportunity to regroup but whether Woodgate will make any major changes or just hope the players will react and make their point is the big call. If he loses tomorrow then the job gets much much harder – Boro really have to win or at the very least not lose with a good performance.

  69. I’m coming around to the idea that relegation wouldn’t be the end of the world. There is much wrong at MFC, and we can only speculate on those things.

    We have an excellent goalkeeper, two good CB’s, one experienced and one with plenty of talent for the future. A plethora of midfielders who should be more than able to hold their own in this league, and a striker who’s record is excellent in this league.

    That we are underperforming is the proverbial understatement. Time for the complete clear out that a drop to League One would inevitably bring perhaps?

    1. I’m not sure if dropping to League One would necessarily solve the problem as the players on lucrative contracts and signed for big fees will be just as difficult to be moved on. It would also mean the only players we’d attract would the ones prepared to play in the third tier.

      I think Boro should use the January window to raise funds and replace those who don’t fit the way we want to play with fresh blood – I’m not sure exactly what the current wage bill is (£25m+ ?) and how many millions were spent on the current crop of under-performers – Britt, Fletcher and Gestede cost us £28m, with Saville, McNair and Howson around £18m – throw in Randolph and that alone is £50m spent. Fry has been subject to rumours of a £20m move and perhaps a few other youngsters like Tavernier have been eyed by Premier League clubs.

      Boro need to somehow liquidate some of those playing assets and re-invest it in players who will give the club a more balanced squad with more pace and the right tools to carry out the plan.

      I’d pay-off Gestede as he’s never going to be an option now, cash in on Britt before his record heads south, sell Saville for probably £3-4m and cash in on Fry as Boro won’t be promoted so he’ll be leaving anyway in the next two years, in fact his value may fall if the defence continues to ship goals. That would give Woodgate anything up to £30m to re-invest and a chance to actually have a squad that is fit for purpose.

    2. Sadly I have similar thoughts but I think relegation would completely destroy the infrastructure of the club including the viability of Rockliffe and the Academy. The value of the club would also be decimated and if SG is trying to claw back or at least not pour anything more into MFC then its going to hit him in the wallet. If he is looking for a buyer then I imagine it would also be easier to sell a Championship club than a League One outfit albeit the latter being a lot cheaper and therefore easier to offload but I don’t believe for a second that would be his desired outcome. It remains to be seen how long his nerve holds before he blinks.

  70. Good appraisal from Scott Wilson in today’s Northern Echo of where Boro now stand. Am I the only one who thinks that Steve Gibson was too hasty in sacking Garry Monk, especially after a win. Did the same to Gareth Southgate also, the only difference being that nobody seemed to control Monk’s spending yet he threw Southgate under the bus.

    1. With hindsight maybe Monk was dispensed with too quickly but he was like a kid in a sweet shop sending on everything he could gorge himself on until he made himself sick. As a result we ended up with an unbalanced squad of players that were of varying ability and overpaying to boot. Monk had no idea what his best system was and how to make it work which considering the amount he spent had to be more than a little frustrating and annoying when you have signed those cheques.

      The big question of course is who sanctioned all those signings and why? It was repeated again under Pulis when we had too many midfielders and shortages in other positions elsewhere not to mention overpaying yet again which considering the Gestede and Fletcher fees its clear that someone hadn’t learnt a lesson.

      As to appointing a committed ex CB and then throwing him under the bus for failings within the business, well unfortunately with mankind history does often repeat itself. Going back to Monk, I have to hold my hand up to be totally perplexed and frustrated with the guy’s management and wasn’t upset when he was dispensed with. I also have to hold my hand up and say that I thought that Pulis would have been an ideal fit for the club and we would have gone from strength to strength. What I hadn’t realised was that Pulis’s idea of football made Karanka look cavalier and swashbuckling. Pulis should have gone after the Villa Play Off debacle.

    2. I think the reasons for Monk’s dismissal have been subsequently aired as being more than just performances of the team. I also think the sudden availability of Tony Pulis may have played a part too.

      Though I’m not convinced Monk was able to decide on which sweets from his raid on the tuck shop were the best ones. If you think Adama, Fry and Bamford had become peripheral figures before he left and if you think he also had Baker who along with Clayton and Shotton who weren’t even making the bench that also had Foreshaw, Friend and Fletcher on it. Boro had accumulated a ridiculously bloated squad during that summer splurge, which those who ran the club must be ultimately responsible for.

      We are paying for that now but still have many of his signings, who mainly are still performing below the expectations of the ability we thought they’d be adding.

  71. I would be interested to see what the difference in revenue streams would be ….. Championship vs League One. This current form will see a gradual erosion of attendances ( the main source of income). If, in the event of relegation they could get off to a good start in League One, I imagine attendances would maybe increase.

    At the moment we have a club that is operating way above its means and lack of success on the pitch will only trigger a downward spiral.

    I still maintain that a DOF is a requirement, for all of the obvious reasons.

    1. The problem with increasing attendances is the gulf between season cards and walk up prices especially in a depressed area like Teesside which once again achieved fame and notoriety last week for being one of the most deprived places to live in Britain. It stings me but what it does to someone with a mortgage, bills and kids to support is anyone’s guess.

      Saturday and Tomorrow will see fans forking out a minimum of £70 including travel and other costs just for one adult. That the club also shaft over 18 year olds in most sections of the ground the likelihood of attracting many back could be a very flawed logic. £70 is a serious amount of money which is why its no longer the working man’s game. Not that there are many working on Teesside anyway at least not compared to twenty or thirty years ago.

      The DOF role may just be SG’s get out of Jail free card. Sacking Woodgate would result in a huge swell of “I told you so’s” from far and wide and being in the wrong is not something MFC do very well. So I anticipate the following:

      “As you know during the Summer it was a thinly veiled secret that the club was looking to appoint a DOF and unfortunately at the eleventh hour discussions and negotiations collapsed. Unwilling to appoint just anyone for the sake of it we went ahead with the current Coaching set up and started the search from scratch for someone who could fill this critical role in the Club, someone who shared the same vision and mindset as we transition. We drew up shortlists, held many meetings to get to the point where we now believe we have a synergistic individual who has both the welfare of the club and the shared ambitions of us all at MFC. We are delighted to announce Mr Steve McClaren as our DOF whom we are sure many of you are familiar with. He brings not only …….UEFA Final……….Manchester United….England……our only Trophy….etc. etc. etc.

      Jonathan Woodgate will as always planned from the outset remain in his current role as will all the other Coaches. Jonathan was fully informed at every stage and on board with and indeed even had some input into the appointment. I am sure you will all wish Steve well as we progress to an exciting new future.”

      Now you can of course switch McClaren out for someone else of your choosing but its the cleanest way out of what could be an almighty mess come 9.30pm tomorrow night.

      1. Not McClaren…..please. I would go with that idea of a DOF, but for the right person it would cost decent money.

        There would be in my mind to much of an overlap with Bevington. Would Mr Gibson sanction the sacking of him and probably Mr Gill? I doubt it.

        The common denominator for most of our recent problems is Mr Gibson. As RR pointed out, it is only us oldies and the local mouth piece that remember and cut him continued slack for all the recent mistakes. Saturday showed that with the average age of those attending, a lot less than ours, the patience of the younger fans is already wearing thin.

        GHW…..relegation to League 1 in my opinion could be the beginning of the end as we know it. Given Teesside’s problems and probably minimum attraction to any future buyers we need at all costs to remain in this Division. We may just have to accept what happened in 1954 (was that the year) and the barren long spell in Division 2 that ensued, going nowhere with very low crowds. League 1 as it is now could be an even greater disaster. Unlike Sunderland our “fans” will not just turn up come what may.

  72. Our players are capable of getting an early goal, the main problem is it goes in to the wrong net!

    One nil down to an own goal in the first couple of minutes is a real blow, two games in a row will knock the stuffing out of most teams. Going behind to a worldy is a different matter.

    At the moment I would settle for two draws this week.

  73. I’ve thought about whether relegation would be a good thing. However we’d likely lose our better players and find it difficult to replace them. The option would be to play most of our youngsters. It worked after 1986, but would it work in today’s climate? Luckily Boro have only spent two seasons in the third tier gaining immediate promotion. It was a struggle in 1967 after a horrible start and only achieved in the last match. In 1987 we were in a not too different situation than today. There might well be an upturn in attendances if Boro were winning like Ipswich are doing at the moment, but there’s no guarantee that Boro would gain automatic promotion. It took two of the giants of English football Leeds and especially Sheffield United several more seasons to get promotion whilst Clubs with a lower profile such as Rotherham and Wigan have both become yo-yo clubs with no prospect of attaining of being anything more than that.

    On reflection then relegation would be disastrous for Boro and the sooner they reach a safe position the better if they ever want to challenge for the Premier League in the future. Sheffield United have done remarkably well to get promotion to the Premier League so quickly considering it took them six seasons to get promotion from Division One to the Championship, but Division One is littered with clubs who were once in the Premier League with little hope of attaining former glories. Fortunately at the moment Barnsley, and particularly Stoke and Huddersfield are well adrift of Boro, but it’s too early in the season to say that they won’t recover, or indeed that Boro won’t either.

  74. Relegation is never the answer. Just ask Sunderland fans who said that relegation to the championship would let them rebuild and come back stronger and repeated that when they got relegated to league 1.

    Relegation just means that our income goes down, we get even less money for the players we sell, half of the match day staff get laid off and crowds go down even further. We may not be able to afford an academy.

    The best hope right now is that the team stabilises; end of the season we sell our best players for a decent price and pay off some others then we do the holy grail of replacing them with cheaper, better players. (Of course, if it was that easy everyone would be doing it.)

    This team has been going downhill since December 2016. Not sure that people remember we only won 1 game in the Premier league in 2017. We have been through 5 managers in less than 3 years. We’ve had a series of terrible transfer windows: notably January 17 and August 17. It’s already a crisis. Getting relegated would turn the current crisis into a disaster.

    Interesting article in the Guardian yesterday about Man Utd. https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/sep/29/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-sacking-not-stop-rot If you read it and replace all the instances of Man U with Boro and change the £millions into £thousands you pretty much have the same story as us even down to appointing a rookie “one of us” manager.

  75. There have been some very interesting and thought provoking posts from GHW, Werder and RR this morning, to which I will add my own take on things as we stand after 10 games, nine league and one cup.

    I do not buy into all the spin and hype that has come from MFC pre-season and then built upon by the EG who have very much promoted the “transition theory” which a number of supporters appear to have bought into. As a consequence they are of the view that we should not expect too much from this season and that lower to mid table is acceptable and that we will have these types of results.

    Whilst I fully accept that MFC have wasted the parachute payments and are now operating in a different financial landscape, the team that took the field on Saturday contained only 2 players new to the club and 8 players who have been with us for three seasons or more. You could make that 9 if you include the fact that Johnson is not a complete stranger to his colleagues.

    Given that statistic to suggest, as some supporters have, that we have to accept results such as Saturday’s is farcical. The manager may have changed but the game has not, it is still about attacking and defending and scoring more goals than the opposition. To suggest that we are introducing a new style of play/formation is equally as laughable. JW has opined on numerous occasions that professional footballers are able to play any type of system and are adaptable enough to change during a game if required. It shouldn’t take weeks, months or seasons to inculcate a new philosophy, it is after all not rocket science, to ask that they play on the front foot, move the ball quickly into the attacking half of the field and score, particularly in the case of a squad which still contains the bulk of those who made the play offs the season before last and seventh last season.

    What the season has highlighted to date W2 D3 L5 is that the club and the team has continued its decline since relegation from the PL and performances have not improved despite three different managers at the helm.

    I accept that it is still early days for JW and he has not had the resources available to his predecessors. The team has been weakened in subsequent seasons as players have been sold and not been replaced on a like for like basis or invested wisely in other positions eg Gibson, Traore, Bamford.

    What we are now left with is an executive management team who have overseen the decline, an inexperienced management team in charge of the squad and a squad of players who have proved during the last 2+ seasons that they are average to slightly above average Championship players at best with new recruits still finding their feet. They have been unable to make the sum of their parts better than an average side and no matter who is in charge or what system they play they are not capable of mounting a promotion push and are look more likely to end up being relegated which I believe would be a disaster.

    I therefore agree with Werder and RR that the only way to progress is to free up funds and re-invest in the squad with a set of players who can take us forward. This means we may have to sell DR, DF, BA GS and RG. This will probably need to be undertaken in January.

    The other question that needs to be considered is does this all happen under JW as he looks out of his depth at present, albeit I am not convinced SG will sack him until relegation looks likely. I am not sure what a DoF brings to the party. Is he just another bureaucrat who will drain scarce resources and add more confusion to an already confused recruitment team?

    The whole situation is a sorry mess which doesn’t look as if it will get better soon and I can’t say I am looking forward to tomorrow night with any degree of expectation. 😎

    1. It looked from the outside looking in that it was always intended to have a DOF in place. It didn’t happen for whatever reason/s and so the Club had to go with what they had.

      If Bevington is the supposed DOF then its not difficult to understand why we are in the brown stuff. That he was considered to have the relevant skill set for the role would be even funnier so I don’t believe that he is. Besides he has been hanging around along with Bausor and Gill for a while now so I don’t see anything new despite the summer of spin.

      Venables came in for Robbo when things were getting sticky and it was clear he needed help. The same can be done now under the DOF guise, the challenge of course would be in finding another El Tel.

    2. That’s a good point KP in that most of the team didn’t need bedding in this season but have instead been learning to play a different formation under the new regime. I suppose it’s a question of whether they can easily adapt or not as to whether Woodgate believes they can or if as it may be they don’t have the necessary ability. Though having said that, the few inexperienced new faces that arrived didn’t suggest it was a concerted attempt by the club to shift to the new philosophy – the new philosophy looks to be more a rebranding exercise than a coherent plan.

      1. Hmmm a rebranding exercise, just wait for some foreign investor taking over and the desire to call us Middlesbrough Steelers! If he does I would recommend his first act be to recruit a Club Vet to put in charge of recruitment.

        “Yep, its got four hooves and it brays, sorry to disappoint but that is most definitely not a Striker, put the cheque book away, the Rockliffe sanctuary is already full.”

    3. Good post KP. It all starts at the top and works it’s way down.

      We have seen mis- management with other businesses (Football as we know is now a Business) and then them going bust. Just in the last week Thomas Cook because of their continued blinkered outlook over many years from their overpaid Executives.

      We appear to have the above at MFC. Will anything change in the short term……probably not and the slide will continue. Is our Owner and Chairman actually around and has he been watching the dross served up this season?

    4. What you fail to acknowledge though is we are trying (and failing so far perhaps) to play differently, play more attacking. What the fans asked for basically.

      If we still had Tony Pulis and we were still adopting the same tactics as last year we’d almost certainly be higher in the table now and probably heading for 8th or 9th. But we are trying to do something different, which takes time.

      I also don’t think it is as easy or quick as you suggest to embrace a new style of play. They will have got into so many habits and practices that it will be hard to break. Particularly at home where I do think (as others have alluded to) we look anxious, particularly when we go behind. Lewis Wing is a prime example of that at the moment, he’s not always playing the pass he would want to, and when he does it doesn’t quite come off. But part of Woodgate’s job is to get the players in the right frame of mind so he does take responsibility for that ultimately.

      1. As the saying goes “you can’t make a silk purse out of a Pigs ear”. I think just about everyone would like to see attacking high tempo football that we kicked off with at Luton but football is a results business firstly and foremost. Karanka bored the pants off me but in the end he delivered with his methodology despite me and others having lots of frustrations over sideways passing, Bamford, Stuani, Adomah, etc. etc. etc.

        When it went pear shaped in the Premiership Karanka felt the wrath of the fans as did Mogga despite their past achievements. Solskjaer is feeling the same now as will Lampard like as not in time. First thing Woody has to do is play the hand he has been dealt which is slow, dour defensive footballers with a few more agile and athletic ones coming through. Its not the dream he envisaged but evolution not revolution is the way to tackle transition.

        Woodgate can still be tight defensively as per Pulis/Karanka but with a bit more desire to pass forwards and to give two Midfielders and a Striker (just as a for instance) more freedom to express. What he has now is the worst of both worlds unfortunately and it is he who like Southgate a few years back who will carry the can and the subject of fans vitriol.

  77. I can just hear the chorus from the Red Faction tomorrow night as MMP turns his volume down and the Ref is about to blow his whistle to kick the game off:

    “Score in a minute, we’re going to score in a minute”

    “Own goals, we only score own goals”

    “I said oops in off yer head, I said oops in off yer head”.

  78. I think we have missed the boat with Middlesbrough Steelers RR, at least by a couple of years.

    May be as a different talking point,
    Middlesbrough xxxxxxxxxxx.
    I am sure that a number on here can come up with a decent add on.

    Come on GHW, you are good at this.

    1. Redcar Red,

      Thank you for the report and I’m not being ironic saying that. Driving down to Leigh-on-Sea and listening to the radio I couldn’t believe it. Your report probably flatters Boro they sounded inept, clueless, amateur (unfair to amateurs) and as my grandmother used to say ‘they couldn’t beat the ‘Blind School’. What is going on? How will it be coached out of them? Perhaps it needs to be coached out of the coaches first.

      Is it Preston next? I think 0 – 0 as a prediction is ridiculous. I don’t really know what to say apart from the fact that we are already edging towards the trapdoor.

      UTB, (not irony)

      John

  81. I firmly believe Fletcher and Assombalonga should be nowhere near the six yard box for corners, in fact, I think they should be near the halfway line just in their own half.

  82. Don’t get me started on Corners. Agree with GHW.
    We have too many players in the box, whether it’s a corner for us or the opposition. Also JW’s comments about marking space seem to have fallen on deaf ears.

    1. Interesting stat in that piece with regard of Britt’s suitability to the high press in that he has only attempted one tackle every five games – which is the lowest in the Championship for a forward player this season. Possibly explains the lack of any evidence of Boro performing their pressing game.

  84. At least we have a match tonight. Let’s hope we won’t concede on the first ten minutes. Perhaps we should mark our own players when defending a corner?

    The Skunks lost by 5-0 at Leicester. And they have much more money and bigger crowds than us. And a really experienced manager. So these things happen.

    As Woody said, it is how our players react to these. We should see a hungry team out there tonight. We should.

    So we need at least a draw tonight. We have to play against a very good Preston side. So let’s hope we have some (good) luck tonight.

    I will go for a 2-2 draw tonight with Fletcher and Assombalonga (!) scoring.

    Preston have scored a league-high five penalties in the Championship this season, at least three more than any other side.

    So let’s hope we do not score an own goal early and do not give a penalty to the Lily Whites. That is a decent target to start with.

    Up the Boro!

  86. Have to agree Werder.
    It’s a cliche but the old question “what does he do other than score goals?” applies here. Unfortunately, BA (bearing in mind £15m outlay) doesn’t score enough goals and, other than goals, he offers very little else.
    Perhaps it’s time to try AF in main role, give BA a rest and put Tav or AN other up front (I think RR has suggested something along these lines). Let’s face it, it can’t be much worse than having a non functioning strike force as we have at present.

    1. If indeed Woodgate wants to play a high pressing game then a non-scoring Tav would always work better than a non-scoring Britt and who knows, Tav could nick a few goals like he did last season – he has the ability to rob opponents and sneak into the box. OK, he may not but can we wait for Britt to have another baby…

  87. Interesting stat about BA albeit not entirely surprising as a number of us have said for some time that if he does not score then he adds little to the team. Unfortunately so far this season he has missed a lot more than he has scored, hence we are still only on a goal a game but it’s not all down to him, he is just part of a wider problem.

    A few of us agreed yesterday that the way forward maybe to look to realise a number of our assets (I use the word cautiously) in the January window and then re-invest in the squad.

    Having considered that idea further, I have identified a potential flaw with this strategy. Given that we have provided a number of players with highly lucrative contracts it may well be that other Championship clubs are unable to afford or better what they are already receiving in which case they will be reluctant to move on as has been the case with Gestede.

    As I see it the only ones who may attract PL club’s attention would be DR and DF and they would be able to move on better terms if bids were received and accepted. We would then be stuck with the remainder until the end of their contracts when they would move on a free to wherever they can secure the best deal, leaving MFC with little or no income to invest in the team. This probably explains why the club appears to have received little interest in our players during the last two windows. So another potential car crash in the offing.

    As far as tonight is concerned, given that Preston are averaging nearly two goals a game and we are only scoring one then I cannot see past a Preston win.

    JW has promised a reaction from his players, I just hope it is not an allergic one comprising own goals and missed penalties.

    CoB get yet act together and give us something to shout positively about! 😎

    1. I think that’s always the problem – I believe Gestede is unsellable given his wages, age and injury record and therefore will need to be paid off. I can’t see the point in keeping him in the squad as he’s never going to come on for anything but the last 5 minutes when he’s actually fit. It means we have no serious alternative to select. It’s possible Britt may attract a few lower-end PL clubs at a knockdown price – in theory transfer fee depreciation means he’d probably be valued on the books as an asset value of £6-7m in January.

      But yes the reality is that the players who can raise cash will be the players we’d rather keep – but if that means selling Fry to buy three decent players to fill the other gaps then that is what the club must do. Southampton and Norwich would sell their better young players to fund new players and they’ve ultimately gained promotion so it’s no use hanging onto players who we hope will be playing for us in the PL in a few years time – as we won’t be getting promoted without the injection of some fresh blood.

      1. I think the conundrum with Gestede is that the Club would have to pay his contract up which will cost money and judging by the summer it seems to be in very short supply.

        Despite his limitations having him around at the same cost as not having him around at the same cost is the lesser of two evils. Imagine if we paid up his remaining £1M and becoming a free agent then Britt and Fletcher get crocked. I for one would probably be ecstatic regardless but the majority I feel would put a cross in the negative column under “Typical Boro”.

        1. I suppose there’s always the possibility of making a gentlemen’s agreement to allow him find a new club in January and topping-up any shortfall below a specified minimum wage – say £15 grand a week. Whether there would be any takers is another matter. It just seems pointless having a player who it seems isn’t viewed as an option unless both our other misfiring strikers are injured.

    2. Woodgate needs to start playing to the strengths of his squad. He has a very good Keeper, three decent CB’s in Fry, Ayala and Shotton, McNair has nailed himself as a definite started and I would put Johnson in that category (just about) despite perhaps being less obvious. He is experienced and not a gullible kid with a rick just waiting to happen. Howson has to be back as soon as fully fit probably as RWB or perhaps in Wings role.

      That is seven key players, Randolph, Shotton, Ayala, Fry, McNair, Johnson and Howson. That only leaves another four places of which I would accept Fletcher as the main Striker and Britt accompanying Gestede collecting splinters. Add Tav and Browne up front either side of Fletcher leaving one spare position up for grabs from Saville, Wing, Clayts etc. to contest.

      Normally I would say that Clayts is a nailed on starter and after one seriously bad game I probably shouldn’t write him off but with a back five (meaning that by default the LWB has to be Johnson despite it restricting him) do we need a defensive midfielder in front of them, at the moment for stability and confidence maybe so.

      By my reckoning thats all eleven places accounted for then:

      Randolph
      Howson Shotton Ayala Fry Johnson
      Clayton
      Browne McNair Tavernier
      Fletcher

      Players should be picked on merit and tactics should be deployed to best fit the resources that you have available. There is nothing whatsoever to stop that side from being creative and attack minded as well as defensively tight. McNair, Tavernier, Browne and Fletcher are all offensive players with the beauty that if needed McNair can defend.

      Fry can play the ball out from the back with more confidence knowing that he has more back up alongside. Howson and Johnson can get down the flanks stretching teams while Clayton can look up and see options ahead of him instead of behind or alongside him. Its all there just staring the Coaches in their faces.

  88. Personally I would go for a 3-1-4-2. We don’t have players who are decent wingbacks and we need stability.
    Central defence: Shotton Ayala and Fry (subs: Friend, Wood)
    Deep-lying midfielder: Clayton or Howson
    Midfield: Howson/Dijksteel, McNair, Wing, Johnson. (subs: Saville, Browne, Coulson/Bola)
    Attack: Britt and Fletcher (Subs: Tav, Walker)

    The defensive midfielder’s job is to block the avenue of counter-attack when we attack. If chasing a game or playing at home against a team you expect to shut up shop this can switch to a 3-4-1-2 with Wing (Tav or Browne) in a free role behind the front two and one of the central midfielders paying more attention to defensive duties.

  89. GHW
    Nobody can deny that Boro’s last two matches have been appalling, but two successive defeats surely can’t be described as a slump. The win against Reading might be construed as a tad fortunate as no team can expect to hold out defensively match after match like that one, but a slump no, not in my opinion.

    Boro have been in much worse positions. When Bob Dennison took over as manager from Walter Rowley following relegation in 1954, Boro drew their first match at Plymouth, but then lost the next eight. With only one point from their first nine matches and a goal count of 7 for and 25 against, I considered that a slump. Of course there were no transfer windows in those days and Dennison was able to buy 3 new forwards, Charlie Wayman, Joe Scott and Bert Mitchell as Boro climbed to 9th by Easter having won 17 and drawing 3 of their next 26 matches.

    In Stan Anderson’s first complete season in charge in the Third Division in 1966/67 after ten matches Boro had won only two of their first ten matches and lost six with a goal count of 13 for and 25 against, and that included a 3-2 win at Colchester on the opening day. Yet Boro won promotion that season by beating Oxford United 4-1 in their final match never having been in the top two all season till then.

    More in recently in 1981 under Bobby Murdoch Boro won only 2 and drew 10 of their first 26 matches which included a sequence of 19 winless matches. He was sacked in September and Malcolm Allison’s was appointed but Boro didn’t win any of their first nine matches in the following season and had a mere 4 draws with a goal count of 9 for and 23 against, but Boro won 4 and drew 1 of their next 5 matches, eventually finishing 15th.

    Who can forget the terrible start to Bryan Robson’s last season in the Premier League when Boro were bottom of the League after 17 matches with only 2 wins, 5 draws and 10 defeats with a goal count of 19 for and 28 against, till Terry Venables rescued our season as Boro finished 14th.

    There’s 5 seasons in my lifetime, albeit in 3 different Divisions, where Boro have had a worse start to the season than the current one, and only one resulted in relegation and one even resulted in promotion. Now I’m not suggesting that Boro will get promotion this season, nor even challenge for a playoff place. The biggest problem is of course that Boro won’t be able to bring in any new players until January, and even then they will face restrictions unless they can sell some of their high earners. But one win either tonight or Friday can reignite the season, so all in all it is not inconceivable that Boro could well finish at least mid-table. Let’s hope so anyway.

    1. Yes those tattoos of Clarke-Harris look quite impressive but I’m not sure if the one on his hand should sound alarm bells for a possible Boro move as if you zoom in and rotate the photo it looks distinctly like he’s got the word ‘mugs’ written on his fingers…

  91. As previously posted, I’m largely in agreement with RR and Deleriad’s views on shape and personnel. Previously I said that Bola might be the option for LWB but I think Saturday showed otherwise and his confidence much be particularly low. I’m interested in going with a more high-intensity front three that would likely include Tav and Browne as a possible next-gen of Barmby/Hignett but I’d keep it simper tonight:

    3412

    Randolph
    Shotton Ayala Fry
    Howson McNair Clayton Johnson
    Wing
    Assombalonga Fletcher

    The option would be to bring Tav and or Browne on for Britt or Fletcher and go to a 3421.

    I’m not sure which way JW will go tonight. There hasn’t been long to work on things.

    To be honest, I fear the worst. Preston are going along well and, despite my more positive views on the longer term plan we currently look incoherent and anxious.

  92. Andy R

    Sometimes a typo just fits, I know you meant keep it simple but simper somehow seems appropriate following Saturday especially to Britt.

    Simper – smile in an affectedly coy or ingratiating manner

    The problem is I dont think they ingratiated themselves to anyone on Saturday.

    I like your line up but is Howson fit yet? All will be revealed later, I suspect it will be a difficult game, if we can get an early goal in the correct net that would be a boost.

  93. I wonder if Boro could register Robbie Keane as a player at least until the January transfer window. I know he’s 39 but played in a testimonial match recently and has a career record of scoring 251 goals in 578 appearances. After all he’s only 3 years older than Jermaine Defoe, a similar type of player who is on loan to Glasgow Rangers and still scoring goals. If Keane was playing alongside Ashley Fletcher he at least would be close at hand to him on the field of play.

    There is a precedent as both Bryan Robson and Viv Anderson were registered as players and both played for Boro aged 39. Stanley Matthews was still playing First Division football with Stoke City until the age of 49 and for England until the age of 43 by keeping himself fit, so why couldn’t Robbie Keane do at least a temporary strikers role for Boro in place of Britt Assombalonga, who let’s face it could only be classed as a temporary striker.

  94. Ken

    I am sure Keane’s instincts remain intact, we dont know how fit he is or if he would want to do it.

    I think it was Teddy Sheringham who was asked about a loss of pace who replied he didn’t have much to lose. If the predatory instinct is there, the first five yards are in the head.

  95. Given our present woes I feel that experience and solidity is required in the next two games with a view to stabilising the situation.

    There is also a need to use players in positions with which they are most comfortable and Saville apart, that should be the case with the following selection.

    I would suggest that initially the team sets up as 442.

    Randolph
    Shotton Ayala Fry Saville
    Howson McNair Wing Johnson
    Fletcher Assombalonga

    Friend and Coulson can come into consideration when fit and Dijksteel can be considered as an alternative to Shotton as needed. That also still leaves Brown, Clayton, Tavernier and Walker as options from the bench.

    This puts our most experienced players on the pitch and provides flexibility to interchange positions/systems as necessary.

    It also enables the team to press high or to drop back into a solid defensive line when needed. It should not be a barrier to playing on the front foot, moving the ball quickly when regaining possession as that is down to individuals and not systems/philosophies on how to play the game.

    We also need a leader on the pitch and whilst it might be admirable to give the arm band to the local lad he is still a youngster in footballing terms and hardly stands out from what I have seen as a leader of men at this stage in his career.

    I can’t imagine that the likes of McNair/Clayton/Shotton are impressed at being overlooked. Assuming that Ayala starts then he should be given the Captaincy and licence to let rip at colleagues when they fail to do their job.

    JW needs to quickly find his best eleven and system and stick with it. At this level frequent changes confuses more than it pays dividends in my view. 433 is no longer an option based on our first 10 games of the season.

    CoB be positive and settle my nerves! 😎

  96. The interesting thing about Tav is that while everyone is talking about him playing in attacking positions Woodgate has been quite clear he sees him as a CM. Which is the one place we are overstocked.

  97. Judging from Woodgate’s comments – “You can tweak little things, try to be more more solid and play from that area. It’s about adapting to certain situations, you still have your belief in how you want to play but you still have to adapt to situations.” – then I’m expecting he’ll probably opt for a back three of Ayala, Shotton and Fry and perhaps now is the time for Howson to return as right wing-back with perhaps Johnson on the left – though if he’s feeling ultra-cautious then that may see Saville instead.

    After that it’s anyone’s guess but I’m more inclined to 3-4-3 so it would be McNair and Wing in midfield with a front three of Tav, Fletcher and Browne – I’m inclined to drop Britt as at some point you have to earn your place and not get it by default.

    Randolph
    Ayala, Shotton, Fry
    Howson, Wing, McNair, Johnson
    Browne, Fletcher, Tavernier

    As for the result, if we score first then 2-1 – if not 1-1 at best and most likely 1-3.

  98. It is going to difficult on a slippery, sodden pitch tonight. Probably plenty of mistakes in the offing, miss-timed tackles resulting in yellow and may be red cards, even penalties of which PNE have had 5 I think somebody said.

    If we score first we may have a chance of a result. If they score first, well it could be Saturday all again.

    I think JW will be cautious with Ayala returning, try and keep it tight and with no thought to a high pressing game, which we have failed miserably at. Preston have goals in them, we have lots of goals in us, but not at the right end.

    Hoping for a miracle on my last visit to the Riverside until Christmas.

    1. Pedro
      Hope you don’t get too wet and that the match is enjoyable.

      In an ideal world I wouldn’t pick Saville or play him as a full back but needs must with experience and solidity paramount. You could alternatively play Johnson at full back and add Brown to midfield but again not ideal with too many not playing in their natural positions.

      It doesn’t matter what I say it’s down to JW and I suspect he will go 343.

      Enjoy. 😎

  100. Well team selection looks like it could still be 4-3-3 with Howson in for Wing, Fletcher losing out instead of Britt and surprisingly Johnson dropped too – could be a front three of Tav, Britt and Browne.

    Randolph, Dijksteel, Ayala, Fry, Shotton, Howson, Clayton, McNair, Browne, Britt, Tav

    1. Well Mrs OFB and I are here even after a late call to babysit and watch the game on Red Button!

      You can’t beat live football and I’m hoping for a ground out 1 0 win tonight !

      Plenary of experience in the team so

      Come on Boro !

      OFB

      1. Plenary of experience OFB?
        Let’s hope you are right and they all turn up tonight!

        I would have preferred to see Brit dropped to the bench rather than Fletcher, and alo Wing rather than Brown. But the selection does suggest some thinking and I’ll go with that …

        Expecting the unexpected tonight, a thrilling 3-2 win with the conditions playing a big part in the entertainment …

        1. Sorry didn’t get message until after game

          If you subscribe to sky the midweek game that is shown live by them also has the option to use the red button on your remote to watch other teams.

          OFB

  102. Looks like Shotton is LB or maybe Fry in a back four. I’m not convinced that our defence needed another tinker.

    Hopefully with Tav and Browne we will see more energy but seeing Britt line up again is just depressing. Lets hope something clicks with him with “hope” being the operative word. He owes the team, the fans and his manager for misplaced confidence.

    1. Malcolm

      If you have got Sky tv and sky sports. Tune into the main match on 401 and then press the red button on you remote which will bring up the other matches you can choose to watch. You then press the corresponding number for the Boro game. Hope that helps. 😎

  104. KP

    I have Virgin Media with SkySports but the red button doesn’t work even though it has in the past.

    Preston 1-0 up so may be better not to watch.

    1. Ian

      Managed to find this when I googled Sky red button/virgin

      Virgin TV to show every midweek EFL Championship match live through the red button
      21 August 2018

      Not sure if you are having a particular issue. I understand it is also available via the Virgin mobile App. 😎

    3. Same here Ian. Has always worked before, but not tonight with Leeds v West Brom being shown on both Main Event and Football Channels, whilst Arena Channel showing Wigan v Brum.

  107. Well it was a better first half than Saturday but it couldn’t have been any worse.

    I have to agree with Maddo that PNE are only an average team and as in previous seasons we are making hard work of it.

    A few chances but not taken surprise surprise! 😎

  108. The first half was on the whole quite scrappy and Boro didn’t quite look fluent with their passing. In the end it was a scrappy goal from Preston that appeared to be giving them the half-time lead – thankfully a bit of karma as Fisher took the bait as he was caught out by McNair’s angled cross to score an own goal that let Boro off the hook. Tavernier has shown some good touches and Browne has been lively. Shotton looks awkward as left-back but Ayala has been proactive in defence. Dijksteel also looks to have some composure but sometimes gets caught out of position. Nothing in the game and it looks there to be won.

  111. Very bitty game, little entertainment , lots of niggly fouls by both teams and players falling over. Lack of quality and poor decision making by Boro. Preston not much better.
    Thought Browne showed promise despite being often fouled, Tavernier worth giving more games and the right back had a tidy game. The rest were fairly average with that man – you know who – generally useless.
    Philip

    1. I’d agree with that summary and I think we benefited from having a bit more energy and guile from Tavernier and Browne up front. Also thought Dijksteel gets better with each game he plays and looks composed on the ball and can play with both feet. Sadly there was a general lack of understanding on the pitch, which probably comes from making four changes. Shotton looks awkward as left-back but showed effort and persistence. Clayton looked tired for the last 20 minutes and not sure why he is the main set-piece man. Not the worst performance but nothing special either – a draw was just about all we deserved and keeps us still in 19th but again hoping Barnsley don’t win tomorrow.

  112. At least a better performance than on Saturday. Remember that if Preston would have won by two goals, they would have gone to the top of the league tonight.

    I think we created more and had more chances than Preston. We need to be better at the final third. But we could still have won it.

    Looking forward to Friday’s match at Birmingham now. Up the Boro!

    1. Jarrko ….how many saves did Rudd make. I counted one. Lots of effort and some pretty play but no real threat.

      Britt may be poor in lots of eyes, but Fletcher, “yer joking arnt yeah”.

      Tav MOtM, that will please Plato. Decent games from Ayala, McNair, Brown and Dijsteel.

      1. Pedro
        It should please me, but what a waste of talent, he was as impressive early last season, and ignored, when a well run club (with no money) would have got twenty full games under his belt. (we missed the playoffs by a point?) hhhm!
        We still refuse to use Wing as a source of goals, and I do mean up field. This is a repeat of last season, so who was calling the shots then. No goals from us last night and yet another easy chance missed by Britt, would have been the opener.

  113. Much better. Still some way to go.

    Some credit for JW: I thought we were better for all four changes that he made.

    Fair play to Shotton for filling in admirably when he’s clearly not comfortable on the left. The return of Friend or Coulson could make a big difference there.

    Browne and particularly Tav gave us some zip and zest at times – just what’s needed for the way JW wants to play and they both got back and helped defensively too at times.

    We were notably better defensively down that left side with Browne more natural than Fletcher and a more assured defender at left back.

    McNair was pretty good again. Djiksteel continues to make a little bit of progress each time.

    Still a bit disjointed at times going forward and panicky at times at the back.

    Britt worked harder in the first half but still looks a little out of place. I’m not sure what the answer is for him. He’s played in different styles with different partners in different shapes but, although he does score a few overall, he often feels like he’s just bolted onto the team and somehow not part of it. The way that Browne and Tav caused problems with pace and movement, I’m starting to wonder whether we should just let young Walker loose.

    Arguably the most pleasing thing was the immediate response to going behind – Tav and McNair taking ownership of the situation and forcing the own goal.

    JW needs to get Wing up and running for the season somehow. He is a talent and last season’s Wing alongside this season’s McNair would be a dangerous two.

    Only one game, not a win and not a great performance overall but maybe one or two pieces of the jigsaw fell into place. A touch more optimism for Friday.

  114. After two successive defeats, Boro stopped the rot with a draw as Woodgate reached his first ten games in charge with ten points. While probably not what he would have hoped for, you could be kind and say that Boro are statistically halfway to promotion with the target of two points per game – all the new head coach needs to do now is win 12 of his next 13 games to arrive at that magic figure of 46 points by the season’s halfway point (10 + 36).

    One man who doesn’t do thing by half measures is Redcar Red and he’s once again hitting the targets with his observation – so here he is with his match report on yesterday evening’s events at the Riverside…

    https://diasboro.club/2019/10/02/boro-1-1-preston/

  115. Note to self, Darnell Johnson plays for Leicester, Daniel Johnson plays for Preston.

    Amazing the things you spot first thing in the morning compared to proof reading near midnight, never mind spelling Darnell wrong when he wasn’t even playing!

    2. RR, it is never easy to do the proof reading on your own texts by yourself. People read sentences and not words. So if you have written the text by yourself it is the hardest part to do proof reading all by yourself.

      At work, I sleep a night before doing the final proof reading. I am the only worker at our company who speaks Finnish, so I cannot ask a college to do that for me 🙁

      Great report as ever. Good that you did not mix Marvin to the long list of Johnsons. Or Boris the hopeless.

      Up the Boro!

  116. Thanks RR for your report on a game which was not a good watch but went some way toward restoring some stability after Saturday.

    To my mind we are still far to open as a team and leave too much space for the opposition to play. We also at times look very disjointed and this performance was more akin to the game against Preston under GM. Misplaced passes, players out of position and wrong decisions were all highly evident.

    It appears that in the search for a more expansive game the baby has been thrown out with the bath water. A solid defence built around a system/structure has gone missing. All good teams are built on a solid foundation and that does not mean you can’t play expansively and with purpose.

    Certainly agree that Tav and Browne added a bit more in the way of variety and pace albeit they seem to suffer from the Boro malaise of a lack of composure in the final third. McNair clearly MOTM and a battling performances from an out of position Shotton.

    At least it wasn’t a third defeat in a row which could then have been turned into six as we managed last year!

    Not turned any corners yet and still a lot more to do albeit I remain to be convinced that we have the personnel to do it. 😎

  117. Thanks to RR for another spot on report and I’d agree that McNair appears to be the player who is driving Boro forward at the moment and ideally Woodgate needs to find a way to get Wing back to his best so that they can form a pretty good midfield duo. I think Tav and Browne deserve another chance on Friday to add to their starts and demonstrate that they have the energy to pose the opposition problems.

    OK, not many good chances in the game but of the 14 attempts on goal Tav had 6 of them with 2 of our 3 shots on target – next best was McNair with 3 and then Browne with 2, of which 1 was on target. Britt again just managed one shot while he was on the pitch, which didn’t trouble the keeper – he also was dispossessed twice and had failed to control the ball six times. Whether he’ll be dropped against Birmingham is perhaps unlikely but perhaps seeing whether Fletcher can do any better wouldn’t be the the biggest risk Woodgate has taken – though apparently Gestede is almost fit too.

    btw I’ve updated the managerial first ten games mini-league in the article to show how Woodgate stands relative to the rest. Second bottom it is and he has the same number of wins as Strachan and also the same goals conceded as the scot – but the fewest goals scored of everyone, which is a little ironic given the shift in emphasis was to be more attacking.

              W   D   L    F    A   Pts
Karanka   5   2   3   15    9   17
Monk      4   3   3   11    7   15
Pulis     4   2   4   14   11   14
Mowbray   4   1   5   12   11   13
Woodgate  2   4   4   10   14   10
Strachan  2   2   6   12   14    8

  118. Much improved. Amazing the difference not scoring an og in the first 5 can do.

    Tav was excellent; that should nail a place down for a bit. Always forward thinking, moving and finding space. Didn’t play with any fear which some of the others seem to be suffering from.

    Best I’ve seen of Browne too and Dijksteel continues to improve. Add Coulson and possibly a reinvigorated Wing to the team and you have the makings of a decent first 11.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Fletcher get a chance ahead of Britt but the worry is the ball would stick less than it does with Britt.

    1. Good post Phil…..The enigma that is Britt, failing at the moment, but I am still convinced that Fletcher does not offer anything better. However if you don’t try you will never know!!

      Wing is the one we need to incorporate back in the side at last seasons level. I think he is possibly suffering more than others with the inconsistency of the team performances.

      4. No idea if Wing is carrying an injury and don’t want to pass the buck for him but I can’t help feeling that he’s suffered from the players around him a bit.

        Fletcher was starting on the left but spent a lot of the game drifting up front into central areas – quite possibly following instructions – which left the left side exposed a bit. The left back position has also been troublesome and perhaps Wing has been asked to sit a bit and protect a bit more given those two factors.

        Shotton is by no means a natural left back but at least he doesn’t need looking after defensively whilst it was clear last that Browne can keep the shape better than Fletcher. Wing could benefit from that.

        I do agree that you get more from Wing further up the field but he’s capable of playing a little deeper with the right support around him. I’m not sure he’s had the best of that.

  119. Thanks for another accurate report of proceedings RR.
    Werder’s mini table just highlights the blindingly obvious problem we’ve had for several seasons, scoring goals. As he says, it’s ironic, given the plan was for a new attack minded, we’ll score more than you philosophy.
    RR’s recent suggestion for Tav to be given a go looks like a good call. BA was largely anonymous again, so I don’t see how JW can persist including him.
    KP is correct in stating that we don’t have the right personnel to effect the new strategy but JW and RK need to find an answer, albeit short term, pretty soon or we’re going only one way.

  120. RR

    Thanks for the match report which was exactly how I saw it

    Britt should have scored and whilst he worked hard his confidence seems low.

    Very pleased with Tav performance and Dijksteel seems to be getting to grips with this level of football and I can see why Woodgate wanted him.

    The refs performance was abysmal and on one occasion the assistant on the east side flagged for a Boro throw only to be overruled by the ref.

    Any 50/50 ball was awarded to Preston and I thought we should have had a penalty. But that’s me being unbiased.

    Really appreciate you doing the match reports well done you

    OFB

    1. OFB
      The startling fact is that the level of competence, or should that be incompetence? shown by all the refs in this league is a shameful reflexion on their organisation.
      They think nothing of playing to a set of rules which frankly do not exist (at least not in this existence)
      Having said that I had better give a couple of examples.
      One, the ref ignored the ‘ professional foul’ i.e. Quick through ball, player darts through after it and is clear in on his way to goal, except he isn’t, because the nearest opponent simply grabs him and holds him, and the ref gives a free kick.
      Repeat same all night, just to show that he knew the rule he booked one with ten to go.
      Free kick given, opponent stands over the ball, ref very slowly comes over and says ‘ please move away’
      Opponent waves him away and stays where he is, and the ref did nothing.
      Tav is in the box and getting near both the near post and the dead ball line with the ball at his feet, opponent comes up behind him at speed and smashes him over the by line, the ref waved play on.
      The last one, I heard a fan say it was not a penalty, but if it happened in the final of the champions league it would have been given.
      As a side issue they all come here with the intention of not giving penalties in any circumstances.

  121. Just learnt of the sad news of the death of Jade Smith. A talented young lady who appeared on the The Mighty Redcar programme. Such a shame to lose her at such a young age. Thoughts are with her family and friends. RIP. 😎

    1. Oh dear, so sad that such a vivacious young lady should lose her life. Worrying trait though the description of her as ‘a troubled soul’.
      Rest in peace sounds very apt.

  122. I think Britt might get a tactical rest on Friday with Fletcher brought in. Then again you never know how they’re doing in training so it could be that Fletcher has crumbled and isn’t in a fit state to play. It’s a sad reflection on Bola that Shotton with no left foot still did better at left back than him. Dijksteel is coming along well.
    Depending on recovery after match about the only change I expect is Britt getting a rest. Wing might come in for Howson if he is feeling at risk of his injury flaring up.

  123. A bit distracted today after fusing the electrics, but all sorted now. I meant to thank Redcar Red for his report as I gave up trying to get the red button working

    3. I’m still incredulous at how Woodgate got anywhere close to this job. Zero managerial experience, very little coaching experience, he got the job pretty much because he was a man from Middlesbrough who has played for Middlesbrough and was already working for Middlesbrough. I’ve said all this before as have many others but the sheer stupidity of the appointment still astounds me. Gibson and co. would be sacked for this kind of mismanagement in any other business.

      I’ll not give Woodgate a completely free pass either. As the article points out he needed some experience around him. Instead he goes and appoints his mate. That shows why he should never have got near the job in the first place.

  125. I’m fine with Woodgate. For now.

    Nothing feels right at the moment, but I emphasise *at the moment*. If you put emphasis on the “nothing feels right” you get swamped in negativity, but if you consider the context, the realities and open your mind to the traditional period of adjustment, you think that maybe, just maybe, the guy needs time to figure it all out.

  126. Just to say thank you to RR for his very explicit alternative match report.
    I still find it hard to fathom out how he can scribble down bits of notes during the match and then come up with such a comprehensive, flowing explanation of what went on.

    On reflection I have to agree with both Andy and KP in their thoughts. Improvement but still some way off. Wing needs to be integrated into the team so as to get the best out his undoubted ability that others do not have. He could/should also make more from Tav playing.

    Defensively we still look suspect and as much as Shotton has done OK, he always looks to have a mistake in the making, although I am not sue Coulson would be better defending. Strange that we now have three so called LB’s and none are playing at the moment.

    What team JW will pick for Friday night……not too many changes I think.

    1. RR has quite a talent. It reminds me of the old Sports Gazette reports (where the scorers would be printed in bold capitals) but with added colour thrown in too. If we were back in the golden days of local journalism Paylor et al would be worried.

      1. My English Teacher Miss Smith said I wrote like an intoxicated spider and a C+ way back then was an achievement. Of course writing about something that I wasn’t remotely interested in at thirteen years old did have an impact and I can truthfully say that Cider with Rosie didn’t float my boat back then or now.

      2. RR, exactly my thoughts at school, too.

        It is much easier to write about things you are really interested in and have some extra knowledge, too.

        I used to hate writing about 40 years ago. But now I am more relaxed to do that.

        Keep on writing, mate. Up the Boro!

  127. I sometimes ask myself: who would be a writer? Who would be a commenter? Or try to engage with an audience?

    It can be thankless. A friend of mine, an experienced journalist, wrote about the high level of negativity and abuse she receives. She spoke about a young woman who dreamed of writing, only to be put off it by seeing all the abuse my friend got.

    What doesn’t help is the rampant, raucous, riotous ranting on the Internet at the tiniest of setbacks and disagreements. Which, you know, happen, because life is life, you know? Maybe we should deal with it.

    It’s enough to make you feel ashamed of what you are and what you do. But I do remember our own Anthony McCarthy telling me I had nothing to be ashamed of. And I also remember my friend telling her young friend, don’t worry. Filter out all the wailing, ranting and roaring and focus on what matters.

    If you take your time to get a message across, and get it across well, it deserves to respected and acknowledged with time, fairness, magnamity and decency. Four good words. The perfect manner in which to respond to the writer, to so many of those who take their time to write their poetry, their opinions and their match reports for us to read and learn from.

    Everyone who’s made a difference here, who’s given hope and thought to us when we’ve had none, who has had nothing but the intention to make things better and is only encouraging us to embrace the positives when they are actually there. Because nothing lasts forever. It is a simple fact of life.

    People accuse you of “having it both ways” or “contradicting yourself” when in reality, there is such a thing as weighing up the validity of alternative views, of being neither positive nor negative, but open-minded. Open-minded enough to realise that circumstances and hurt may drive us into using extreme words or capitalising for reasoning purposes, and get attacked by it only for others to escape or be applauded simply for preaching to the mood of an angry choir.

    It’s avoidable. Avoidable because merely taking a little time to think can make the world of difference. To not just think about what the poster has said, or how he or she has said it – but to think about the whys. To discover how the person within relates to the person without. It’s not about agreeing or disagreeing. It’s about understanding.

    That’s how I see it.

  128. Simon
    Agree with every word.
    The unfortunate fact is, the reasonable things about football if carried out in a reasonable manner, will in a rational world, were people act in a single minded pursuit of winning, condemn you and your team to seasons of miserable entertainment and decline.
    Witness us.
    Around us we see clubs in a frantic scramble for players, cheap if possible, but still players.
    We? If we were in a decent run of form would not be interested in buying anyone, so short sighted are we.
    Tav man of the match, the manager should fear for his job.
    Both last season and this he has been ignored whilst we have watched players who should not be professionals.
    Wing, not played, then on the bench, then played nearer his own goal than the opposition goal.
    Meanwhile we will not drop Britt, the chief cause of our desperate lack of ideas in the opponents area.
    Can’t head the ball, can’t run, cannot take a penalty (but is allowed to by our so called manager)
    A habit of missing anything from three yards.
    Anyone who says ‘ it could happen to anyone’ is helping destroy this club.
    Our fellow members of the league are utterly ruthless with under achievers, they are gone, very quickly.
    It is not feasible to give any one ‘ a fair chance’,
    You are wasting the time and the very life of the club

      1. It has to be Bruce Rioch for me. It is extremely rare for a club to be promoted twice in successive seasons especially to the old First Division. Only Charlton Athletic in 1936, QPR in 1968, Oxford United in 1985 and Derby County in 1987 had done it before Boro in 1986. Since then Sheffield United in 1990, Notts County in 1991, Watford in 1999, Manchester City in 2000, Norwich City in 2011 and Southampton in 2012 have performanced that feat.

      3. Good choices Jarkko but Ken has it nailed.

        Nothing in my four decades of support comes close to the coming of Bruce or the coming of Juninho.

        FMTTM, I think, referred to Bruce as ‘God’ for ages and it was not out of place given the impact and galvanising effect he had on the club and area.

        It’s interesting that of all the old eras, the only old team get togethers we seem to hear about are Jack and Bruce’s bunch. They played together and for each and were very much of the area. They felt like family. A pot or two aside, I think that deep down, that’s all the fans really want.

  130. Redcar Red,

    Excuse my bad manners and tardy response, thank you for the report and accurate reflection of the game. Amazing when a draw at home is seen as a small triumph. I don’t know where all this will end, hopefully not in tears.

    A small request to Mr Woodgate, can we please drop those who are under achieving and play some of our younger talent in their best and preferred position(s). Is it too much to ask or did common sense go out with the high pressing revolution?

    It wouldn’t be so bad if the revolution was revolutionary not just passive.

    Anyway,

    UTB,

    John

  131. Strange as it may sound today, but just after the War as long as Boro were safe from relegation the performance, the prospect of seeing the best British players who one could only read about, and the excitement of seeing plenty of goals all seemed more important than winning. I and my pals even cheered the stars of the opposition, applauded great goals no matter which side scored them. Of course it was a bonus if Boro won, but it wasn’t the ‘be all and end all’ of visiting Ayresome Park. It was hero worship of seeing the likes of Frank Swift, Tommy Lawton, Len Shackleton, Tom Finney, Stanley Matthews, as well as our own Wilf Mannion, George Hardwick and Mickey Fenton. I’m not saying that footballers were more skilful than today, but there was very little football on television, in fact their was very little television. There weren’t many football magazines either.

    The Gazette used to publish little round photographs of the Boro and opposition on match days and I used to cut them out and stick them with a mixture of flour and water as a paste into in an album. Girls used to do the same with cutouts of film stars. How things have changed, but when was the last time the home crowd cheered or clapped. when the opposition scored a wonder goal? There was no loud music which drowned conversation, but there were brass and silver bands, once even the Coldstream Guards. Of course there was a downside with the occasional smell of urine as sometimes somebody would relieve themselves in the crowd instead of visiting those horrible urinals, and of course watching players coping with waterlogged, muddy or snow bound pitches. But all in all I loved the excitement of match day with one’s mates.

    As most of you realise I’m very nostalgic, a preserve of old codgers like me, though I guess most of us reminisce sometimes by starting a conversation with the words ‘Remember when’. It wasn’t all perfect, but ah!! the memories.

    2. Ken
      That world depended on one single but very important fact. When a club turned up a very good player, they enjoyed his services for as long as —?
      They paid him as much as had been agreed by the little group of fellow owners in their secret meetings.
      It is true that he could refuse to accept such a situation, but he would not be playing football, he would be down the pit.
      With the end of that system, came the Klondike of no wage regulations, and clubs became more professional, and more ruthless, and greedy.
      Greedy for other clubs players, that is.
      At the same time, some clubs were too lazy to join this wild West chase for glory.
      They went to the wall, very slowly, it is true, but still!
      At this moment we are one of those clubs who are slowly subsiding in stature and momentum by a simple process of neglect.
      Sloppy signings, no discipline , no exit for players who have no discernable future at this club, waiting and wobbling forever before throwing good young players on the pitch and letting them get on with it, the most vile habit of selling any very good player in an instant, without any idea of the right price for him.
      And, of course, no control over performance or tactics. One never knows what will be offered on a match by match basis.

  132. At first I couldn’t understand why Steve Gibson got involved with rival clubs and this FFP situation , it looked a little like sour grapes ,
    But it seems though if you have to run your club within certain boundaries ,then obviously if you go beyond them, then you have to correct it, and that means selling assets , if your new manager wants to do things his way then instead of making the squad stronger you dilute it, hence you sell Bamford , Forshaw , Traori , others , you can’t keep them all together, if you wanted to.
    So if other clubs work outside the rules, making their squads stronger , fiddling numbers , then I can see where Mr Gibson is upset.
    If we could have kept some of our better players and adding to them, what might have been, certainly more quality .than recent seasons.

    1. If clubs can artificially inflate the value of their Stadium by £40M and then invest it into the Playing side it obviously gives them an advantage as does the Parachute Payment system but it guarantees nothing. Derby aren’t exactly setting the heather alight despite their “ill gotten” wealth and their “sponsored” soon to arrive Circus act Rooney (think we can all predict how that will pan out, a finished over the hill, has been, turns up for one last big pay day) is yet to perform. Stoke are now probably close to have wasted all their cash and Huddersfield it appears have certainly wasted this season’s payment.

      Villa got away with it, by the skin of their teeth but if more clubs gamble then like in a Casino or elsewhere the house always wins far more than the punters. The FFP rules were put in place to prevent this but were badly constructed and very badly policed all made worse by the huge financial chasm developing between the FA’s Premiership and the EFL.

  133. The inflating of an asset such as a stadium and then ‘selling’ it is essentially an accountancy trick and doesn’t actually generate cash – though it does require or indeed allow the owner to inject extra money into the budget. As Boro among others have shown, having money to spend doesn’t necessarily equate to getting value on the pitch out of that money. Indeed, spending big also generally means taking on rather expensive player contracts for 3-4 years and clubs can only try that stadium selling trick once.

    1. Merely inflating the value doesn’t bring in cash but if they then sell the inflated asset to a Sister/Parent/Holding Company then whilst it is usually only a paper exercise it does then permit additional (or cover up existing) spending and create the illusion of staying withing the EFL “guidelines”. Must admit at first I thought it was just sour grapes from SG but with several clubs now “involved” it does seriously ask questions especially as the intention of FFP was to prevent clubs getting into a mess and living within their means.

      I suppose its not too dissimilar to Pensioners releasing equity by selling their homes apart from the fact that they get about 70% of the going rate rather than double its value.

      1. The biggest problem for that clubs who suddenly inject funds and spend it on transfers and contracts is that both the transfer fee and the wages are then spread over the length of the contract. Therefore any contract longer than three years will not be covered by the injection of the cash. i.e. FFP is spread over three years and on the fourth year that cash injection is out of the equation.

        We’ve seen how Boro’s wage bill has become a problem after two years as there isn’t enough income now to cover those contracts and the amortised transfer fees. The £47m and £35m parachute payments actually give us £82m spread over three years in terms of FFP rules, which is an average of £27m per year to cover the increased expenditure.

        This is the problem for a club that suddenly has a fake stadium sale, that £40m only really gives them an extra £13m per year, which doesn’t amount to a sustainable splurge. These are essentially gambles on gaining promotion in two years otherwise it would need to be a fire sale or having some players who can be sold for big bucks.

        The fact that Boro have no money after £82m in parachute payments and the sales of Adama, Gibson and Bamford – plus the exits of Braithwaite and Flint this season demonstrates that all this spending is both completely unsustainable and leads to over-valued fees and contracts for second-tier players who are not playing in the PL because they can’t deliver consistently enough – they are simply not worth the money they have cost the club if they either can’t be sold or only sold at a loss.

        So in that regard, football is a gambling business where there can never be enough income to satisfy the desire to spend, which quite appropriately clubs are now mainly sponsored by gambling firms too. Football is the ultimate short-term focused business where everyone looks at the here and now in terms of results and finance. It’s probably down to the contradiction that a sport can’t really be a sustainable business since it’s driven by the mentality of winning at all costs to satisfy both those participating and observing as supporters.

        1. The ‘When the fun stops, stop’ slogan is something devised by an organisation called The Senet Group, which was set up to promote ‘responsible gambling’. They are aiming to get gambling companies to sign up to adding the slogan to their adverts. The question is whether when it comes to gambling there is any fun in losing money at all!

    1. I guess the ultimate aim of FFP is to restrict the inflationary nature of the transfer market – but if clubs find loopholes to avoid reducing their spending then it has failed. The other problem with FFP is that it does nothing to reduce the increasing gap between the PL and the Championship – especially as parachute payments give a massive advantage in spending power and also act as an inflationary driver for Championship transfers. I suspect the main reason clubs are actually using these scams is because they have at least six rivals in receipt of parachute payments and want to compete with them in the market. Plus if promotion is worth £170m for just one season in the top flight then many clubs will risk more to get to the PL.

  135. Interesting debate.

    Perhaps parachute payments, initiated, I’m sure, to insulate relegated Premier League clubs from severe loss of income, cause more damage overall. I don’t believe that there are such payments for clubs relegated from the Championship, though the drop in income is less severe.

    The answer, of course, is not to have such a gap in income between the leagues in the first place.

    Even beyond relegated clubs, it should surely be a concern, at least ethically, that, for instance, Man City’s ground and shirts can be sponsored by their owner’s business.

    On the other hand, perhaps we should have the Bulkhaul Riverside Stadium and shirt sponsor and to hell with it all. Or perhaps the FFP rules are actually quite convenient in a way?

    Whatever. Steve Gibson is within his rights to be more than a little peeved.

    1. Thats the problem, the initial point of the parachute payments was/is to help the clubs scale back down and gently ease them into a lower income level. Instead its being used to gamble on bouncing back up immediately instead of alleviating pressures caused by players contracts and avoiding having to make immediate redundancies in mundane operational areas.

    2. The Premier League income generated means that gap will always be there because it is ultimately distributed among the 20 clubs. The formula generally means the first-place team gets just about 50% more than the bottom team. Although if you look at the distribution of the money that is dependent on which clubs get chosen for live games, the big six of Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd easily pick up more than double that of the 9-10 less fashionable clubs in the league.

      Also, I’m sure the £43m equal share that clubs receive for international TV rights is down to overseas viewers wanting to watch the big clubs rather than the likes of Burnley, Bournemouth or Cardiff. So in a sense, clubs are rewarded for rubbing shoulders with the big boys as they suddenly don’t become an attractive proposition for the neutrals at home or abroad. OK occasional a few teams capture the imagination like Leicester did but clubs are getting paid for providing games for the so-called big clubs.

      Just how the gap between the Championship and PL could be bridged financially is unclear – perhaps we need a smaller PL of 16-18 clubs and maybe a Premier League 2 of 20 clubs, with perhaps somewhere around a third to a half of the prize money. It’s probably a question of whether the media would pay for such a league or if the PL clubs would agree to subsidise it. My hunch is that without the big six clubs the marketing money is just not there.

      Incidentally, the gap in the Premier League in terms of spending power between the big six and the rest is massive and the others can’t really compete with them for players – it’s essentially a mini-league within a league. As for selling your stadium in the Championship to raise £40m – it’s put into perspective when you consider Spurs have just spent a billion on building their new stadium.

      So in summary, the financial gap is a problem for Championship clubs and most will only survive a few seasons in the big time even if their financial gambles ultimately pay off – it’s probably going to be the norm for Boro to be a second tier club with perhaps an odd season or two in the PL.

  136. My concern is , FIFA want eventually each Country to have one elite league just like the NFL , all sponshership and rights will stay within those leagues owners will become very wealthy , and MFC will end up just a small club playing regional football ,with no chance of moving up.
    Things can change very quickly with great concern it just takes a proposal and a vote.
    The latest EFL meetings were a joke , major discussions about the future were not on the agenda it was about a stupid deal with TV .
    Its time they took their own league seriously and implement laws that restrict other leagues impinging on EFL clubs , including minimum transfer fees, friendly games , an EFL reserve league , maximum ticket prices, they should be looking at these things.
    In order to survive as a valuable product.

    1. The stupid TV deal is what keeps Premiership Clubs in the land of luxury. By comparison Championship Clubs are having their eyes poked out.

      The Championship is something like the fourth of fifth biggest league in Europe after the top leagues in England, Spain, Germany etc. the money they receive for TV rights does not reflect it because those negotiating are incompetent buffoons. Attendances in the Premiership are almost irrelevant in terms of income as Keith Lamb once alluded.

      To make matters worse the “Red Button” takes thousands off midweek gates and the money Clubs receive does not compensate let alone make money like the Premiership and Champions league matches do.

  137. Just think, we could have the situation as in Spain where Real and Barca get something like 17x the bottom club, Imagine what the second tier gets!

    It is wrong but second tier clubs have always got chuff all. When we were in the top flight I cant recall Lamb and Gibbo voting for a fairer share of the income. AV never got his soapbox out until we fell off the gravy train.

    It doesn’t mean I like it but I am honest in my views, I cant recall renting of clothes before we lost the money. If I am wrong I will happily put my hand up..

    1. That system of distribution in Spain changed several years ago and it’s now more similar to the Premier League sliding scale with the bottom team getting around €60m compared to the winners €150.

      I think the main problem is the distorted market that parachute payments have made plus the switch to a three-year cycle under FFP has allowed some clubs to gamble on spending big. Having said that, I don’t think the prices and contracts being offered to Championship-level players is justified as few are genuine match winners and if we look at our own big earners they don’t appear to perform any better than players who cost considerably less.

      I still think it’s the best overall team that does well in the Championship rather than having some good individual players who win you games.

  138. My take on the safety of parachute payments is to encourage clubs to invest in players to make them competitive in the PL and if they do fail and are relegated the payments help them to keep their playing staff and possibly get promotion back.

    The last thing they need is for their “ golden league” to be tarnished with teams who just become cannon fodder and spend only one season there. This helps to cleanse themselves of perennial strugglers who detract from the entertainment value. This is reflected in recent seasons by teams who come up and stay up, at the expense of clubs that have gone past their sell by date, and invariably continue their slide in to League One and beyond.

    1. See, Leicester, Bournemouth, Wolves etc. Who thrive, and old established regulars like, Forest, Sheff Wed, Coventry etc who are dispatched like ageing family members to the retirement home which is the EFL.

      1. I suppose it helps that Leicester’s Thai owner is worth $5bn and Wolves’s Chinese owner is worth even more at $6bn – though apparently Bournemouth’s Russian owner is not that wealthy so the Cherries are doing amazing given their low crowds too.

    2. That may well be the intention, although there does seem to be a going rate for just being a PL player and if they sign three-year contracts and you can’t sell them then you need some kind of safety net. I think Boro managed to offload all their big ticket price players when they were relegated but kept hold of all their Championship level players who had been given pay rises on promotion.

      Although for around ten clubs in the PL the aim every season is probably to avoid relegation and likewise the aim of a dozen clubs in the Championship is to get promotion. One group is probably overspending to stay up and the other overspending to try and get up – an interchangeable league of 20 clubs fighting against disappointment and fear.

      1. The official prize money received by Premier League clubs in order of their final League position last season was as follows:-
        1st. Manchester City £150.9m
        2nd. Liverpool £152.4m
        3rd. Chelsea £146m
        4th. Tottenham £142.2m
        5th. Arsenal £142.2m
        6th. Manchester United £142.5m
        7th. Wolverhampton £127.1m
        8th. Everton £128.6m
        9th. Leicester £123.3m
        10th. West Ham £122.5m
        11th. Watford £113.9m
        12th. Crystal Palace £114.2m
        13th. Newcastle £120.1m
        14th. Bournemouth £108.1m
        15th. Burnley £107.3m
        16th. Southampton £104.3m
        17th. Brighton £105.7m
        18th. Cardiff £102.7m
        19th. Fulham £101.9m
        20th. Huddersfield £96.6m

        Clearly the more appearances in televised matches the higher the prize money. Middlesbrough received £109.6m in their relegation season, but the first time that TV money was added to the Merit money based on final League positions in season 2010/11 Champions Manchester United received £60.4m, considerably less than Huddersfield received last season, whilst West Ham who finished bottom received £39.1m. I don’t have figures for the Championship but it’s clear that the rich Clubs get richer whilst the poorer get poorer.

        Incidentally before TV money was added to Merit money in season 2009/10 Chelsea as Champions received only £16m whilst bottom club Portsmouth received only £800,000. My records don’t extend to the beginning of the Premier League, but in the 1995/96 season Champions Manchester United received Prize money of £983,300 whilst bottom club Bolton received a paltry £49,165.

      2. Yes Ken it certainly shows how much the PL prize money has increased in a relatively short time – though it basically has just acted as an inflationary driver for wages and transfers rather than driving up standards of players. Clubs now have to pay more for average players, which you think would encourage them to develop their own through academies.

        Incidentally, here is a link that shows how PL prize money payments are broken down…

        https://www.premierleague.com/news/1225126

  139. Good debate over money and the football ladder. Well done all!

    Just as a side note, I am hoping, dreaming and believing we could get a result at Birmingham. We need a break now and if we got an early goal instead of conceding first, we could win.

    So I am expecting a 1-2 win for the Reds. Howson and Assombalonga scoring.

    Take that. Up the Boro!

  140. Now onto tonight’s match and the season so far. Ten points from 10 matches is far less than anyone could have conceived especially as points-wise last season ended with 15 from the last 6 matches with a goal record of 8 scored and 5 conceded of which 3 occurred in the only defeat against Nottm Forest. Although that followed 6 successive defeats that still allowed Boro to accrue 15 points from their last 12 matches or from 10 matches if one wished to compare against the first 10 of this season giving a ratio of 1.5 per match which might be deemed respectable for this season. Surely then if Woodgate could have found a system to retain our defensive record but tinker with a more forward passing game we’d all be happier as it appears now that he realises that a solid defence is needed as a prerequisite for further progress. Is it a case of learning to run before learning to walk, or is it just that he is out of his depth?

    1. Ken

      You have hit the nail on the head.

      Previous seasons have shown that by and large we can be solid at the back. The problem has always been getting the ball forward quickly and displaying composure and the ability to execute in the final third by sticking the ball in the opposition net frequently.

      When TP arrived he quickly identified that we didn’t have a clear shape/system and put that into place and that improved how we had been playing under GM. The problem he had was getting the middle and front of the team to produce.

      JW in his attempt to introduce a more expansive approach appears to have lost the solidity at the back albeit not helped by injuries on the left.

      I believe that given the current make up of the squad he should be able to tighten our defence but will still have the same problem upfront. This will only improve by moving out some of the current squad as merely sticking to a 433 system will not solve the problem. It needs to be a combination of changes to both personnel and systems so that it suits their aptitudes. 😎

  141. I think we need to get the base correct, we seem to be juggling players at the back match by match. We have suffered injuries to defenders and people who can play wing back, players settling in

    If my list is right we have had Ayala, Shotton, Coulson, Friend, Bola, Fry, Dijksteel plus I think McNair and Johnson in various guises.

    The most obvious weakness is at left back where we even had Shotton in the last match.

    Good sides have a solid back five to give a platform for the rest of the team to play. There has been little chance to form partnerships and understandings.

    If you want to be progressive you have to be solid at the back, once we have a defensive unit in place that will give the opportunity further forward. At the moment it looks to be a bit disorganised.

    Lets see what tonight brings.

  142. Ian

    Also hits the nail on the head. As I said previously, we had similar problems under GM. TP arrived tightened things up and got use playing to a system but couldn’t improve the middle and front end.

    JW has lost the solidity, not helped as you say by frequent changes at the back and particularly on the left.

    If he can stabilise the back five he may have a chance of improving performances but I still have doubts given the current personnel. 😎

  143. It sounds like Woodgate is going to stick with Britt tonight after he declared “I think a striker will go through a period where they don’t score but then they knock one in and then the next game it’s another two and they go on streaky runs. That’s how it is and that’s how it will be, I haven’t lost one bit of confidence in Britt.”

    It also sounded like he was impressed enough with Tav and Browne to keep them alongside him so it may well be an unchanged team with new left-back specialist Ryan “I don’t like playing right-back” Shotton keeping his new position.

    As for prediction… well Boro really need to start winning games and seem to enjoy playing Friday evenings but I’m not convinced we will score more than one goal so I’ll go for an edgy 1-0 win to ease a bit of pressure over the international break. Ayala to score.

  144. I am taking a leaf out of OFB’s book and going for a ⚽️ – ⚽️.

    Sticking to my plan of taking Mrs P out for dinner but will record the match and have a sporting Saturday watching the Rugby and the match. Just have to avoid iPad/iPhone to avoid finding out the score! 😎

  145. I’m going for a defeat, 2 – 1 with Britt missing a penalty.

    As you can tell Boro just don’t fill me with optimism in any way. I know results have to change, Boro need a little luck but they need to learn how to make their own luck.

    However I live in hope rather than optimism.

    UTB,

    John

  148. As expected and unchanged team for tonight so let’s hope they go one better and win – will Britt score? well he’ll probably need more than the one shot on goal than he managed last time out! Though Gestede is on the bench in case we need a option to run down the clock in the 91st minute…

      2. Although having just watched the movie clip of the goal frame by frame the ball does indeed bounce of Fisher’s heel, then move away from the goal before hitting Britt and going into the net. I’m not sure if either player knew too much as in real time it all happens in a split second. Though Britt was in the right place at the right time so yes it’s another goal for our leading scorer!!

        Here’s the video link and you can manually slide the frame button to check…

        https://twitter.com/Boro/status/1180134628490960898

      3. Preston defender Darnell Fisher was originally deemed to have had the final touch on a Paddy McNair cross, but video evidence suggested otherwise.

        The goal was reviewed by the EFL dubious goals committee who ruled that our DR Congo international did indeed get the decisive touch and he was awarded his fourth goal of the season.

  152. Werder

    Oops!

    Same problems with the line up, if you play 433 the front six have to be very good in possession or you get over run in midfield.

    A centre back come right back playing at left back will gravitate to join up with the centre backs and leave space on the flank.

    Basically they are playing better than us, it could be a long night but 50 minutes to go and only one down.

    1. Well 45 minutes gone and we could be 6 or 7 down, this is a league one team clueless, we cant even clear the ball properly, its beyond a joke part of me thinks this is bad as pulis ball

  154. Boro couldn’t have complained if they’d gone in at half-time 4-0 down – they’re not thanks to a couple of great saves, the crossbar and a bit of luck. The team are just not at the races and haven’t got into the game at all and are well off the pace. What happened to the notion of playing with energy and it seems every time I watch Boro the pressing is the preserve of the opposition.

    Mid-table Birmingham have totally dominated Boro with 13 efforts on goal and 8 corners – it’s hard to see where Boro are going and we can’t let opposition have that many shots and offer very little in return. The second half needs to be much much better.

  155. Overrun in midfield, where was Howson tracking the lad for their goal?

    Shotton having a mare and Clayton anonymous. Get rid of the ball and lump it to Britt..

  156. Extremely lucky to be only 1-0 down. It could so easily be 4 or even 5. Birmingham look dangerous every time they put the ball in the air in the box, winning second balls and look physically stronger.
    Every time they attack down the right they look dangerous as Shotton is either no where near the attacker or is beaten in a one on one.
    Boro can’t keep the ball, seem to lack any confidence, pose no threat when going forward, just chasing the ball and shadows,Tavernier and Browne having to defend and ‘you know who’ is not an outlet for a punt forward .
    Surely they can’t play as bad in the second half ? Or can they?!
    Good news ? Randolph!!

  157. We have just forced an opposition goal kick.

    Football is a game of two halves. We spent the first 45 minutes camped in one half, the second 45 minutes we seem camped in the other half.

    Shotton long throw, now a corner. Nose bleed territory!

  159. Exmil

    Colour clash,

    Anyway, here come the cavalry, Gestede is about to come on. Meanwhile we are all at sea again at the back.

    Phew, we have been better second half.

  162. Oh dear. Get out of jail and come out to commit the same offence.
    If there was a Gold medal for shooting yourself in the foot, we’d have no competition.

  164. Second half better ,particularly when Wing came on. But even so Birmingham should have had 2 or 3 goals in the second half
    .
    Where do you go from here ?
    Wait till 5 minutes from the end and nick a goal and then from yet another high cross in the box they fail to defend.
    It would have been a miscarriage of justice if Birmingham hadn’t won.

    Philip

  166. That was absolutely dreadful. Deservedly got nowt. Battered for most of the game, then even when we get back into it, we still contrive to throw the points away.

    Now can we please abandon this stupid 4-3-3 and go back to a more solid formation? It really didn’t work first half, but the change at half-time at least gave us more of the ball so we could play in their half for a bit rather than in our own six-yard box.

    And as for the supposed high press – well Brum showed us tonight exactly how it should be done. They barely gave us a second on the ball all night long.

    Extremely poor, disheartening performance. Will we be in the bottom four after tomorrow?

  167. The stats are revealing, we recovered to 48% possession but they had 26 shots to our 5, 8 on target to our 3, 11 corners to our 3.

    Stats can be misleading but tonight is an honest reflection. I am struggling for a solution but it is looking gloomy.

  168. We made Birmingham look like an automatic promotion side but somehow nearly stole a point before feeling guilty and giving it back two minutes later with our usual defending on crosses. Well I suppose I did predict we’d only score one goal and Ayala would get it but I guess the only thing that was even more predictable is Boro are looking unfit for purpose at both ends of the pitch with the middle not functioning that well either.

    Not sure what the tactics are meant to be as we seemed to have Britt as an isolated striker with the wide players neither attacking or defending – we barely strung any passes together and things improved when Wing replaced Clayton but it was more long hopeful balls to our three strikers than anything resembling the kind of football Woodgate was hoping to transition to. At least the effectiveness of the high press was in evidence all game – though it was from Birmingham not Boro. We have no hope of winning games if you allow the opposition 26 shots on goal and muster only a handful yourself.

    I guess that drawing board is going to get some use in the international break – though I don’t think Woodgate is quite the artist we needed this season!

  169. What’s worse, I guess, is that this is a Brum side that had lost 3 on the trot. They’re not exactly supposed to be one of the division’s high flyers, are they? Yet we made them look like Brazil.

  170. Werder

    Good luck to Redcar Red with that one.

    The one consolation is that contrary to Nigel’s view we were even worse at Brum under Mogga when we lost 3-0!

    1. I guess he’ll be busy crossing out all the expletives as we speak – it won’t be pretty. The good news is we play West Brom after the break – well, when I say play…

      btw We should also be feeling sorry for KP who is planning to watch a recording of the game tomorrow morning after avoiding knowing the score.

  171. OK no more Tavernier this and that , Browne yea right , McNair , Tony knew, Randolph I can save the ones at me , but please don’t cross the ball.
    And the best , we have actually signed a rightback who doesn’t know how to play rightback .
    I can’t believe what I just witnessed , totally diabolical, the worst since Allison’s team ,
    However , no surprise ,a long winter though.

  172. Absolutely clueless from Woodgate. We just do not have the pace for his pie in the sky formation. Is Howson really fit, is Shotton a LB and gt is correct, as I replied to Jarrko, if Randolf was taller and could collect crosses he would not be at MFC.

    Clayton is now too slow in the middle and was terrible tonight. So great Woodgate takes him off, and bingo, oh Lewis, take his place a play deep will you, that way you will not be able to influence the game at all.

    Did Gestede actually win a header, in fact did he actually do anything?
    This is surely all heading one way……League 1.

    That is why Mr Gibson is making hollow noises about FFP. Smoke and mirrors to deflect from his seemingly abandonment of MFC.

    1. I’m not even sure why he’s playing 4-3-3 as the only point in doing so is that it’s the formation for a high press and the team haven’t played a pressing game since the first half against Blackburn back in August. Apparently he switched to 4-2-3-1 after 30 minutes, which is essentially the formation favoured by Karanka but we don’t have a number ten or the kind of striker in Britt who holds the ball up.

      We then switched to playing with Wing and Howson almost as full-backs with Shotton and Dijksteel pushed up the pitch before again switching to what looked like 3-4-3 when Gestede came on. Not much changed in terms of effectiveness and it looked like mainly pumping long balls forward and long throws from Shotton – which appeared to be less long than he normally manages.

      I thought Clayton was looking tired a week ago and has looked well below his normal self – Wing is also below his normal self and appears to be trying to force too many passes from deep to forwards who are not making any movement. Howson has been playing as a wing-back for half-a-season and had looked good in that role but now Dijksteel is here as a full-back he can’t play there.

      Whether Woodgate likes it or not Boro are now in a relegation battle and he needs to start winning games before we actually end up in the bottom three in the near future. This is the worst possible start for the new coaching team as there’s no way they can now contemplate this new expansive game-plan in such circumstances – especially if we lack the expansive part. Hard to see how things will improve in the short term as Boro just don’t have the right players to do what he wants and there’s still three months before any new ones can arrive.

      1. Sounds like Woodgate is now contemplating that his team are now heading for a relegation battle in his post-match comments:

        “I believe the players are good enough and I’ll keep on going with them as I believe in them and I’ll remain positive with them. But if they don’t pull their fingers out, we’ll end up down the bottom of the table and we’ll stay there. We need to grind it out and find personalities who can do that.”

        As to where he finds them in the next three months is hard to say.

  173. We set up as a 4-3-3 but unfortunately it was a table football version with the players firmly affixed to a metal bar.

    Second to every ball because it was such a ridged formation. I go back to my views after watching the friendly at Salford. The writing was on the wall there. I said then it wouldn’t work.

    Definitely in a relegation battle season now. Let’s hope he reverts to a sensible formation and sticks to it.

  174. What sensible formation would you suggest. These players were just poor in almost everything that they did and it doesn’t inspire much confidence that there is some magic formula that will make them better. Having said that, it seems clear that we need an extra player in midfield. They are just not good enough to play 4-3-3.

    There are a couple of clear specific problems.

    Problem 1 – We are so vulnerable down the attacking team’s right hand side through not having a proper left back who can fill that space and prevent crosses. Maybe it makes us realise just how solid Friend was. We’re certainly missing Coulson. Will either be ready after the international break?

    Problem 2 – Britt must learn to stand up and get the ball away rather than falling over and hoping for a foul.

    I know that we often say this kind of stuff about the latest game but that first half was just about as bad as it gets.

    UTB

  176. Well thank god it’s not Friday but it’s the morning after the night before and if Boro didn’t look like they knew what day it was yesterday then it’s lucky we’ve got two weeks before they next take to the pitch. Boro are looking like a team who have had their day and need a rethink. Though one man who always delivers at the end of the day is here with his third match report of the week – it’s Redcar Red’s and his view of the defeat against the Blues…

    https://diasboro.club/2019/10/05/birmingham-2-1-boro/

  177. And we all thought Pullis had no idea, silk purses and pigs ears springs to mind, Brum are not a good team but they showed how a pressing game should be played, just noticed our next two home games are WBA & Fulham what odds one them actually putting six or seven past us. Manager was top class defender but we cant defend. Coach was top class striker but we cant score. It does feel like division 3 is beckoning call us to her cold embrace, truly horrible performance from a truly awful team.

    1. Immediately after the match I watched a recording of the Super League Semifinal between Wigan and Salford which finished 4-28. Bizarrely that scoreline was almost the same as the number of shots between Boro and Brum 5-26. In both matches the results were emphatic wins for Salford and Brum, the only difference being Boro losing 1-2 was a travesty, it might well have been 1-7 and Brum would not have been flattered at all. Where do Boro go from here? They made Brum look at least a division higher than Boro especially in the first half when Boro were hardly able to string two passes together. Luckily for Boro the table shows that there are 4 teams worse, but for how much longer?

  178. Redcar Red

    Depressingly accurate report.

    After a night to sleep on it I can now be considered. That was rubbish.

    The players are not good enough to play 433 especially with porous full backs and a front six who are not fluid and secure with the ball.

  179. Thanks for the report, RR. Can’t argue with any of that. Spot on.

    Given the scale of change the club has taken on, the resources available to do it and the inexperience of the coaching team installed to make it happen, it was always to be expected that performances would be clunky and uncertain at times. However, getting played off the park, home and away twice in one week by mid table opponents is not a sign of a side working through a difficult transitional period. It’s a sign of a side in serious trouble now. In the space of a week, a whiff has become a stench.

    JW’s comments after the game about how the players perform in training is exactly the stuff we’ve heard before from sides who go on to get relegated.

    I think the transfer policy is the right one. I think the ambitions for the playing style are the right ones. It can’t go on like this though. Without some performances and results – some kind of promise for the future – the plans will never get off the ground.

    I understand and accept that progression is never in a straight line and if we show some signs of progress and keep the points tally ticking over then I’m more than happy to be patient and let the club get on with their rewiring. The Preston game was ok for me at this stage. What happened before and after it though is intolerable.

    Where do we go from here and we’ve barely played any of the divisions top sides?

  180. Many thanks to Redcar Red for a brilliant match report with lots of suitable black humour – I particularly liked the line about Shotton arriving 20 minutes too late to block a cross. It’s hard to see where Boro go from now as Woodgate’s project of a high-pressing team it seemed lasted just the first game and half of the season before a few spluttering death throws at Bristol and against Reading and then being well and truly stiffed in the last week.

    He’s now talking about the need to grind out results, which if I’m not mistaken was the very thing he was employed to move away from – needs must is I guess the phrase we’d use. Not much chance either of the forwards getting the benefit of our attacking coach as he’s now away on international duty. OK I don’t blame Woodgate as he’s been given almost an impossible job of dressing up downsizing as a change in direction to entertaining attacking football without any decent attacking players whose primary function was to defend from the front under the previous regime.

    It seems the task is now to survive until January and that may mean a return to functional football. Incidentally, if Boro had beaten Birmingham they would have gone above them on goal difference as they started on -4, the same as us just three point ahead. To be so far behind them on the pitch perhaps demonstrates how bad we were.

  181. Thanks RR

    We really appreciate what you have to do to take one for the lads !

    I’m absolutely gutted as I expect everyone is

    I never thought I’d say this but bring back McClaren or even (through gritted teeth 🦷!) Karanka !!!!!

    OFB

  182. Werder mentioned KP watching the recording. I can just picture him squirming as the first 85 minutes unfold only to breathe a huge sigh of relief when the equaliser goes in. What a blow to the crown jewels when Brum score again.

    Oh dear!

    1. When the equaliser went in I admit to feeling a sense of guilt and even shame.

      Its abundantly clear that the players know that the club is in a mess from top to bottom. It looks to me like several have already lost belief and decided to play their contracts up until the end of the season or preferably January fully aware that Woodgate hasnt a clue about organisation or tactics.

      Flip flopping from week to week isn’t change management its clueless chaos and its now abundantly clear. As the old saying goes, “you buy cheap you buy twice”.

      Its a shame that after decades of being lauded a saviour to most, now to the younger generation our lord and master will be more renowned for being the Grand old Duke of York. If he doesn’t do something quickly we sure as heck are headed back down that hill.

  183. For a while now I have been disturbed by the comments dished out by Woodgate, he seems to live in a world of his own.
    On Tav. ” he played o.k. But he must keep it up, ‘if he is selected?’
    If he did not know that Tav (and Wing) should have been regulars in this team (so bad is it) then I think that he should go, and I do mean tomorrow. There will be a continental coach who will be ambitious to work in England, it ain’t difficult, the big point is a knowledge of how to manage a team, which seems to be part of the deal over there.
    This should have been obvious before he was appointed, but immediate action can put it right.

  184. It might be interesting for Exmil to do one of his challenges for the next 8 games (if it wasn’t so scary):

    WBA (H)
    Huddersfield (A)
    Fulham (H)
    Derby (A)
    QPR (A)
    Hull (H)
    Barnsley (H)
    Leeds (A)

    Goals for and goals against could make even Halloween less scary.

    1. Even on our current form of averaging a point per game, I’m struggling to see where we’d pick up 8 points from those fixtures! We’re back on the similar kind of run that we had at the Riverside under Pulis in that if the opposition score we don’t win – though there seems a lot less chance of keeping a clean sheet this term. We have now conceded as many goals as we did in the first 23 games last season in less than half the time but have scored three goals fewer after 11 games than under the less adventurous tactics of Pulis.

      Although I still found three games and a couple of halves of the others quite entertaining but that all ended with the trip to Cardiff. I suspect entertainment will now be off the menu if we shift into survival grind mode.

  185. I suppose the simple fact is that 10 games in, there are no signs of progress. Not only are there no signs of progress, we actually seem to be going backwards and there are no signs of any green shoots that make me think it’s going to get better any time in the near future.
    At this point you have to think that either Pulis got the current crop of players to over-perform until gravity caught up or Woodgate & co are actually making them worse.
    When you think of the fit players: Randolph, Ayala, Fry, McNair, Saville, Howson, Clayton, Assambalonga, Fletcher, that’s a list who would be regulars in most top 10 championship teams. Wing (on last season’s form) would also be playing for a top 10 club. Dijksteel was a standout in league 1 last year. It’s a group that must have cost 30-40m to buy.
    There is no way that bunch should be looking at a relegation fight.

    1. I agree. The squad is undoubtedly thin but the first XI look a group that should be at least half way up the table. I forecasted lower than that this year due to the changes but right now even my 14th place looks ambitious.

      1. I think as much as one system can make some players appear better than they are, a different one or being played in the wrong position can make them appear worse than they are. We may have a good first XI on paper if all the players played to their best in their best position but if 4-5 are playing below par (Britt, Wing, Fry, Howson, Clayton, Shotton) then it’s going to be difficult.

  186. Thanks again RR for a tremendous report again. Spot on and truthful.
    I have no idea where the hell we go from here but it seems to me the players are not playing for JW and he is now showing that he is clueless to tactics/team selection and motivation. OFB mentioned Mcclaren and Karanka. Maybe Karanka till the end of the season but Mcclaren never!

  187. Redcar Red,

    Thank you as always but a report to read through your fingers while hiding behind the couch. That makes for grim reading and at this rate, and without serious changes, Boro are in a tailspin that will see them crash out of the division.

    I know we’re all fans and not managing and running the team because we aren’t qualified but when does the bleeding obvious become bleeding obvious to those who are supposed to be doing the job. We aren’t organised, able to pass, shoot, cross, do the basics and appear to be any form of team. Boro would seem to be a rout waiting to happen.

    This time it’s thank goodness for the international break but no doubt we’ll resume where we left off.

    The travelling fans should be congratulated and compensated.

    UTB,

    John

  188. Well done RR for saying it like it is, as painful as it no doubt is to do so. As many have commented here, I don’t see much in terms of progress. I was impressed with JW’s demand to improve the style of football and yet staggered that there weren’t wholesale changes being made to put this into practice. It’s going in only one direction right now and it’s really concerning.

    As much as I hate to call for the sacking of a manager so soon, it seems clear right now that JW at least isn’t ready to be that man and potentially never will be. Rather than turn to past bosses, I would be sniffing around the host of good young managers who are doing the business in the same division or lower league and give someone carte blanche to effect the club’s vision. There are plenty of choices out there, but I’d do it sooner rather than later. Currently I can predict the direction of our games, never in a good way, and that can’t be right. We look, to use an awful but apt adjective, clueless.

    1. I think we could do worse than to look at Paul Warne of Rotherham. His footballing ethos is good and although he only has a 31% win rate its with Rotherham. Lets face it relatively speaking Rotherham do well for the resources and level of support they have sandwiched around Barnsley and the two Sheffield clubs not to mention also in the wider catchment area for the dirties. I mentioned him previously as someone we should look at after Pulis as I figured that we wouldn’t be looking to splash big bucks at the time.

      He is 46 and knows the lower leagues as well as the Championship so will know the clubs he is facing at this level as well as any bargain basement buys from League One. I understand he is on a rolling one year contract so to buy him out is probably a month or two of one or two of our players salaries (maybe slightly exaggerated). He is used to working on a shoestring budget and with loanees but has a really bright positive and crucially realistic footballing philosophy. For me he would be a credit to the Club and the area once fans get to know him and what he is all about.

      2. Ollie is a good shout Bob, I’d be confident we wouldn’t get relegated under him thats for sure. We could also maybe save face and have him come in as a DOF.

        My logic was that we are searching for crumbs down the back of the Sofa and therefore we need to find a Manager who would be both willing to come and operate on a shoestring. Looking for experience with potential and cheap but with the correct mindset and who is currently under everyone’s Radar.

  189. Thanks to Weder for the starter and to RR for his dedication to duty which is well and truly over and above the call of dirt.

    I have tried to keep off the internet whilst in Spain for the sake of my sanity but I always come back- sign of madness I guess!

    At least the saving grace is that I am sitting in the sun with a San Miguel reading the blog which is as always an entertaining read. Shame the football isn’t and I fear that a relegation battle is looming unless JW can work miracles on a biblical scale.

    Not much more to add although I don’t see any benefit in changing the manager at this stage. Yes, he looks out of his depth but there is always the hope that he will learn so that we move up the table slightly, albeit slowly.

    It has never been easy being a Boro supporter and as I get older, the more I just accept that it will be what it will be and move on.

    More beer is calling!

  190. Thanks RR for managing to inject some humour into a nightmare of a match to report on.

    I managed to avoid knowing the score before watching the recording aided by Mrs P shepherding the electronic gadgets!

    I was certainly glad that I didn’t forsake our night out to stay and watch an embarrassment of a performance.

    It very much reminded me of the many away games I attended in the 70s when we were often outplayed, continually under the cosh and the majority of Boro supporters were just waiting for the inevitable to happen, the opposition scoring which they invariably did, and Boro lost again.

    Sorry Ian but the equaliser did nothing for me as I fully expected a “typical Boro” moment and of course they duly delivered.

    I agree with RR, and would have felt sorry for the Brum supporters if we had snatched a point given the way they had played.

    Many of the comments above are reflecting what I have been saying for a number of weeks. We are not capable of playing 433 and it doesn’t work in this league as you leave the opposition too much space as last night proved.

    The current squad are and have not delivered for some time. The management team are inexperienced and appear to be out of their depth. That being said, I am not convinced that a change of management would necessarily evoke a better response from the existing squad.

    It would appear that SG has little choice but to allow JW to soldier on and then review his and the team’s performance in December with the transfer window beckoning, at which point he will no doubt have some big decisions to make.

    It does beg the question why, given JW’s lack of experience, he was given a three year contract. Surely a one year contract with options would have been more appropriate.

    In the meantime we need to get GF back and playing as an orthodox left full back, bench RS and play 442 or 4411 with the midfield comprising Howson, Wing, McNair and Tavernier. We then need to hope we can grind out some results but I believe it to be a big ask given what has happened to date. 😎

  191. KP
    It frightens me to hear good and intelligent supporters, such as you, suggesting that we wait for some improvement in the managerial career of our current coach.
    We are not a team who are struggling and in bad form, it is far worse than that.
    We are doing everything incorrectly that can be done incorrectly.
    Just a couple of examples, when you have been given the run around at the start of the match, because you have got everything wrong (a common occurrence for us) then you make changes, at once, no waiting until half time. We do not even make the changes at half time, but carry on in our own sweet way to oblivion.
    As a manager you cannot afford to let your opinions become fixed, see his behaviour over our youngsters, who are plainly better than those currently in the team.
    The ignoring of Tav for the whole of last season, cost us a play off spot (one point).
    A chairman who was serious would have noticed that little episode, but apparently not.
    Wing not up with the attack, and this in a team utterly unable to score goals.
    To play a non striking striker is anyone’s definition of futility.
    To have no idea of dead balls, both attacking and defending.
    To have the worst defence I can remember, when he has played under the best coaches in the world, points to something lacking in him.
    To cap it all, he comes the old soldier when challenged about his judgement of players (its a good job the press don’t challenge him about his knowledge of tactics) I fear it would end up in fisticuffs on air.
    Their are plenty of clubs who simply would not countenance such a performance as he has, and is, producing at every match, he would not have made us suffer this long at Watford, sorry they are in the Prem. wonder how that is?

  192. Plato

    I am not suggesting that we should wait but making the point that whoever is in charge is unlikely to get this squad firing on all cylinders. I agree that JW and his lack of experience is a problem but only part of a much larger problem.

    I agreed with Werder and RR’s post a day or so ago that come January it will be necessary to sell/move on some of the existing squad if possible to free up funds to invest in alternatives as the current squad are not fit for purpose and have not been for some time.

    Given SG’s track record I cannot see him doing anything immediately but come December his hand may be forced. 😎

  193. If we had a goalkeeper who commanded his area teams wouldn’t be doing what they obviously see as a weekness , Randolph is way overated , and is one I would replace along with most of the others, this will take time of course.
    You have to be ruthless ,
    He now has to think about protecting his back four,
    One other thing , Birmingham did their homework, and played very well ,gave us no time on the ball what so ever , its steam that’s been together building and now have a decent coach, by the looks of it.

  195. Interesting comments about a possible new manager and a suggestion that the Rotherham guy could be the answer. The stand out replacement for Pulis were the Cowley brothers. They had the best promotion record of anyone over the last 5/6 years , Yes , I know that they operated in the lower leagues but a good manager is a good manager whatever the level.

    Boro’s loss is Huddersfield’s gain. Following a draw they have now won the last 2 games and are clearly turning things round – and this with a team which had won one game in something like the last 30.
    It is clear that Boro lack leadership on and off the pitch and the priority is to get a win by whatever method and temporarily , at least, abandon the idea of attractive football.
    Philip

    1. The Cowleys were mentioned on here a few times but what we didn’t know was that the job had been apparently given to Woodgate way before he went off on holiday with those ensuing weeks of speculation being used to push Season Cards to the gullible after Pulis had left.

      Meanwhile the Club were busy coming up with the presentation spin story to counter the #ABW movement elsewhere with incredibly Bola and Dijksteel being part of the new dream. The Gazette clearly knew as they kept to the agenda of Woodgate still being “favourite” whenever fans on their website countered with the likes of Jokanovic, Hugton and Danny Cowley etc.throughout that period.

      Ultimately the Cowleys like all those others supposedly “interviewed” would have failed on the question about place of birth, obviously carrying the most weighting and being a crucial deciding factor in terms of suitability. The second most heavily weighted question was the ability to say “yes” without question when being stitched up and despatched up the Teess without a paddle.

      2. I think most of us would have sipped from that Chalice and therein lay one of the biggest problems of heart over head rather than cold commercial reasoning from both parties. Even the Gazette were baited “‘Will you walk into my parlour?’ said the Spider to the Fly.”

        It was the likes of a few miserable old gits on here and elsewhere that sensed the stench of foam and rose tints. Battle scarred veterans tend to have that innate ability to sense danger.

        I don’t for second believe that it was intended to go as badly as it has, I think the plan was a few years treading water or maybe even skirting with the Play Offs and then go again but you can’t go again if there is nothing to go with or with sub 10,000 gates looming, nothing go for!

      4. How I wish we’d gone for Jokanovic instead of Monk. We had the funds to support a good manager then and I think he would have been a terrific choice of us then.

  196. Phil Neville on the Riverside crowd.

    The head coach said: “That was the best atmosphere I’ve seen at a women’s game. It felt like a carnival, there was a buzz in the air and it really inspired our players.”

    1. What Phil Neville doesn’t appreciate is how it took 13 years of meticulous planning by MFC in depressing fans with woeful performances right throughout the club so that yesterday’s game could be heralded the success in terms of support and atmosphere that it was!

      1. I know it’s very easy to bash the club at the moment, but yesterday was a big plus for the local population in terms of all the negative press the area has received recently. Positive news stories about Middlesbrough and it’s surrounding areas are very few and far between days and should be welcomed when they come along.

      2. Taking my tongue from my dark humoured cheek for a moment you are absolutely right GHW. Its extremely rare that tabloids are filled with positive comments about the area.

        I know many who went yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it who had never been to the Riverside before especially parents with youngsters and who may be tempted back. I will stop there before I go off on a tangent about walk up pricing etc.

  198. Fair to say we have nothing going on with improvement and development of a shape, formation or application. Less goals scored and more conceded and no sign of the high press over
    90 minutes yet. If the goals against went up because we were pushing up and taking risks then you could understand but if you concede with 11 in the same half (or all in the box for the 2nd goal) then it comes down to a lack of structure. And that comes down to a lack of coaching.

    Ive read a lot about big players leaving and us buying on the cheap with replacements but the ones we sold or released were ineffective or simply not with us (braithwaite – mentally after August and physically after January). We have experience and shed loads of experience at championship level and that should count for something but it seems that players signed for different reasons and it wasnt to be part of a project or being lower half. They signed because they saw us as being a good prospect for premier league and they play like their focus is the exit door. Britt has had a lot of criticism of late but his attitude is replicated by many. How you can pretend to play high press and have a striker who doesnt challenge or tackle and still be regarded as first choice just doesnt add up.

    Compare us to Swansea who sold Dan James and Oli McBurnie and who have flourished with a manager who has impressed a style on them but not had the chance to spend big. Charlton apparently sold their prize asset but they are challenging too.

    A toon fan mentioned to me this week that their players look happier around the place and more relaxed and that is because they are not being drilled on shape as much. Fact is though we have the same issue and the same sort of results. JW is coming across like everyones best mate and it shows. They dont fear him and he cant get the most out of his players and the basics are being ignored. Ayala, Fry and Clayton could all be relied on under Karanka. They are not too old or lacking nous but suddenly look like they dont know what to do. If nothing else, the defence should be sorted under JW to give us more scope to go forward and if he cant sort that end of the pitch then we are doomed under him.

    I liked the honesty of JW to start with but he is sounding panicked and when the talk turns to “we dust ourselves down” “we go again” “we continue to grind” and of course “it is what is” shows that he’s tuned into management speak but not yet the skills.

  199. Many thanks for another great report, RR. That was exactly the way I saw the game.

    On the subject of a new manager, we know that Gibbo has form on this. Monk apart, he has tended to stick loyally to his choices through thick and thin (mainly thin). I think he has too much face to lose to sack JW at present, given the hype we were showered with in the summer. Best candidate by far, blah, blah. Cheapest, in other words. Anyway, I think things will have to get really desperate and that the threat of relegation will need to become really serious before he acts to fire JW. Of course, we might well argue, with humiliating defeats against Wednesday and Brum, and a grand total of 10 points from 11 games, that we have already reached that degree of desperation. I think Gibbo will hold his nerve a while yet, though.

    1. With the next four fixtures coming up against rampant WBA (H), improving Huddersfield (A), contenders Fulham (H) and stadium fiddlers Derby (A) it’s unlikely that even if pushed SG would drop a new Manager into that cauldron. Best to let the current patsy take the flak and the brown stuff splatter everywhere and act after that when in the bottom three.

      Meanwhile Woodgate and his Coaches may or may not feel Teflon coated because of “assurances” but they are not that stupid and know the fans will turn as do the Players (some of whom I suspect deep down may even want to join in). They are now at a point where they have to produce and stop the rot. With those fixtures it’s definitely not an easy task but its do it or get off the pot time. A career defining moment if ever there was one.

      If it continues in the same vein (or gets even worse) the intriguing thing is on who will the fans turn? The demographic at the Riverside is probably split between those who remember ’86 and those who better remember Eindhoven, 60/40, 50/50, 40/60? Who knows but this time it could be more uncomfortable than simply booing a Karanka or Strachan or Southgate or Mogga never mind Pulis! Let’s hope it never comes to that as I fear everyone loses then.

  200. Redcar Red

    There are those who remember 66 as well.

    I braved the Gazette website and listened/read to Dom and Vic. No surprise they are singing off the same hymn sheet as ourselves about what is wrong. Even more worrying is that Monk and Clotet have the same hymn sheet and the other managers have copies tucked away in readiness.

    As you (and Clive) rightly say, it is unlikely Gibbo will move yet. In the meantime 433 must be binned and like many I think the only alternative is 352 with the players we have.

    We desperately need a left full back or wing back fit. I think we can cope on the right with what we have but left side is a car crash that we are not much waiting for but is happening regularly..

    In the short term we need some option to help provide solidity and give a chance for the team to settle.

  202. Following on from Ian and RR’s comments, I think that at this juncture aspirations have to be binned for the present with practicalities and necessities to the forefront.

    I think we are all agreed the 433 experiment is dead and buried. My personal choice is 442 or 4411 but I am happy with 352.

    Which ever we go for it needs to strengthen both defence and midfield and whilst I am loathe to say it, we need to get back to grinding out 1-0 wins until the ship has been stabilised.

    That being said, whatever system you use then players need to do their jobs and too many in this side, including some seasoned so called professionals, are failing badly.

    On the managerial front I don’t see anything happening short term, my fear is that if and when SG acts it may be too late. 😎

  203. It’s still too early for me to be thinking about removing Woodgate. As awful as Friday and last week were, there were still signs in the other games (and even on Tuesday v Preston) that there were improvements.

    We do seem to have an inbalanced squad and that will only be able to be sorted next summer when we lose some of the big contracts.

    But even accepting this as a transition season, relegation isn’t an option and if we continue on the downwards trajectory it will come to a point where Gibson has no choice. That will inevitably lead to a manager coming in who will go back to basics and we will be grinding out dour results for the rest of the season. So for all our sakes, we have to hope that Woodgate can turn it around.

  204. Reality is that a series of poor decisions over a number of years have caught up with the club and belts now have to be severely tightened. The responsibility or culpability for that comes down to Gibbo but as much as we are frustrated it is he who has been left out of pocket as a consequence and is facing far more pain than any of us.

    Whether he has learnt (or even accepts) from those decisions is subject to third party speculation and interpretation. It may even be that Bausor and Bevington spend their weeks banging their heads off walls at Rockliffe with things they are/have been instructed to do, who knows? Regardless of the past it can’t be changed but the short term future is paramount to perhaps the Club actually existing let alone surviving in the Championship.

    Whatever happens there is little room for error with that margin becoming less and less as the season unfolds. This season should not be about fanciful transitions to some sort of footballing Nirvana it needs to be about playing to strengths by utilising what we have, not what we wished we had. Clearly the Summer transfer window saw a reluctance to bring players in on the last day indicating that there needed to be outgoings to fund anything additional. That is the financial reality of where we are at here and now.

    This squad isn’t as bad as the one Mogga or Strachan had to work with or indeed that Karanka inherited. It can and should be doing better but not with fantasy football tactics. Whilst nobody wants to witness it pragmatic football is required until normal service can be resumed if indeed it ever can. Most Championship Clubs finances are a slow motion car crash so we are not alone in this. Villa gambled heavily and it paid off for them, to date Derby’s season hasn’t gone to plan with the circus arriving to town in January. I’m not sure if Reading’s finances are any better than previously but they appear to mired in a season of struggle along with ourselves. It’s Championship life unfortunately when the riches dangled tantalisingly at the bottom of the Premiership rainbow are so close yet so far. As the gambling slogan goes, “when the fun stops, stop!” well it needs to stop in the EFL that’s for certain if the game is to survive.

    Woodgate has the backbone of a solid, defensively strong side, Randolph, Shotton, Ayala, Fry, Clayton, Howson and when fit (if ever fit again) Friend. That’s enough to build on. Saville is experienced at this level and can’t be as bad as we have seen as McNair has proven, the challenge is to play him (like McNair) where he plays best. Throw in Wing, Tavernier and the rest and there is enough there for upper mid table (at least on paper) but not by adhering to tactics that are a total dichotomy to what is real.

    It shouldn’t have had to be this mess but it can be rescued so long as intransigent stubbornness is replaced with old fashioned Teesside common sense. Its time to put ego’s aside and to make do and mend.

  205. Thanks RR for your hard hitting alternative view of the game. I sincerely hope you at least on this occasion that you watched it from the relative comfort of your favourite TV chair.

    There has been many good posts on here this last couple of weeks with regards to the Boro set up and it’s failure to achieve anything like what was hoped by Woodgate. Did Mr Gibson really believe the hype spun by JW at his interview, could be produced by this current squad of players, especially given the financial circumstances that were espoused by the Gazette, not by the club directly. And then not to even remotely give JW a reasonable sized squad to carry out the project.

    Whilst we all understand the difficulties that MFC find themselves in due to past mistakes on a grand scale, the manager/coach has to be given some help even if it is to stave off relegation.

    Again as many have said, we have still have the backbone of a squad that Mr Pulis would not have struggled with to have kept us in the top half of the table.
    Given the easy passage to date and the next 8 teams we play, as given by RR, the near future looks bleak.

    Whilst I do not like to see any person (normally) lose their job, a big decision will probably have to be taken by Mr Gibson at the end of those next 8 games.
    I sincerely hope Woodgate and his staff can get the players to perform and ease the crisis until January. If not the Riverside will become toxic and even the loyal Mr Gibson may have the decision forced upon him.

  206. Talking squads, Mr Pulis (or AN Other interviewed) and Woodgate and capabilities

    Starting line up for the last two games against Reading (2-1) Britt-pen, Mikel, Rotherham (1-2) Britt -pen, Wing.

    Randolf, McNair, Flint, Shotton, Howson, Wing, Mikel, Besic, Saville, Fletcher, Britt.

    Subs still with us. Clayton, Tav, Gestede, Spence, Wood.

    The lineups for the previous 4/5 matches was more or less the same. Wing missing injured, Ayala playing.

    So people can argue that we have lost three good/bad/indifferent players and not replaced them. Squad additions are only projects.

    However we finished seventh with basically the above squad plus Hugill. Alaya and Fry were injured.

    It is therefore very easy to lay the blame of our current predicament at the feet of Woodgate and to a lesser degree, to Mr Gibson. If Woodgate cannot win more points in the next 8 games say to keep us out of a relagation fight, then he has to go!!

    1. Thing is though, as I tried to make the point earlier in the blog, we are trying to fundamentally change the way we play. The fans told the club that Pulis and his football was unacceptable and it had to change.

      That is bound to make things difficult to begin with, especially if as many on here think the players aren’t ideally suited to it.

      If we were adopting the same tactics as last year / still had Pulis I’m sure we would be higher up the table, in the short term at least.

      So do we revert back to that or twist and hope the new style of play prevails?

      1. BoroPhil

        No problem with changing the tempo and attitude but utilise the skills we have in the squad.

        Being progressive does not mean you have to go 433 and get swamped. Then repeat it.

        With the players we have we are exposed so play to our strengths, There are enough right and left footed players better suited to wing back rather than full back.

        Even if George or Coulson were fit our front six are not good enough to play 433, they will get over run.

        The problem will be if we keep playing as we are then players will lose heart.

      2. Ian’s is a good reply BoroPhil.

        We were all fed up of Pulisball, however as much as Woodgate wants to play attacking football, and I applaud him for that, he has to be honest with himself and initially get the best out of what he has.The cliche, the Whole is greater than the sum of the parts has to be his aim, especially this season. It has been true for thousands of years since Aristotle first coined it.

        Mr Gibson could not stick with TP as the fans had turned even though we finished seventh and should have finished at least sixth. The fans will unfortunately turn again if we keep getting beat at home and are in the bottom three. Possible, very possible.

  207. Having watched EFL on Quest I didn’t see one team except Barnsley and possibly Hull who on yesterday’s displays would have had much trouble in beating Boro at the present time. I realise that recorded highlights don’t tell the full story, but most teams were not trying to grind out results, but playing with gay abandon as indeed Boro were earlier this season. As I see it there have been too many experiments in playing different systems, a thing which we castigated Garry Monk for. There was nothing wrong with our defence under Pulis, the trouble being that the midfield was programmed into not giving the ball away, almost inactive instead of proactive. Certainly the loss of George Friend and Ross Coulson has been unfortunate, but we’ve always struggled to find anyone else to fill that position when Friend has been unavailable.

    I would suggest we stick with a system that utilises the players we have certainly in defence than experiment with square pegs into round holes. As regards Darren Randolph, he doesn’t command his area, far too many players in the penalty area in my opinion. True, he’s a good shot stopper, but so were Rolando Ugolini and more recently Jason Steele, and internationally Joe Hart, but generally speaking that’s all. The game has moved on now and it is expected for a goalkeeper not merely to make saves, but to be in command of his area and to be able to start attacking movements. I recall that Peter Taylor rarely kicked the ball, but was usually able to find a colleague in the opposition half just by throwing the ball; perhaps he was ahead of his time.

    Which leads me to ask what exactly is Leo Percovich’s function? A good rebel rouser who wears his heart on his sleeve, but what does he do except infuriate opposing managers and coaching staff?

  208. This team is either unfit or lazy , both are disgraceful.
    So McNair spits his dummy out and wants to play midfielder shame he’s too slow and can’t pick out a good pass to a team mate.he could be useful in another position though.
    Both new fullbacks will be gone before you know it.
    Remember when Adama had to play on the same side as the coach ,this Browne should be given homework on how to help your team.
    Randolph (Dracula) good lad , not good enough.
    It really is a big mess at the moment , you’ve got to blame Gibson for listening to the wrong people and worse the fans, fans are emotional the chairman has to understand the bigger picture ,he never as he’s a fan too.
    Anyway Woodgate as got to get back to basics using his experienced players ,good look like?
    So my team going forward.
    Protecting The back line .
    4231
    Randolph
    Shotton Ayala Fry Saville
    Clayton McNair
    Wing Howsen Tavarnier
    Assombolongo

    No world beaters but can be solid with a bench of Gestede Fletcher Browne etc who could come on if needed.
    Sort it it out for goodness sake Gibson or whoever ten years of a cubic cube club is enough.

  209. I don’t know what is the biggest shock today, Arsenal breaking their ground record at the Emirates for the visit of unfashionable Bournemouth, Celtic losing to Livingston, Manchester City losing at home to Wolves, or Traore scoring both goals. What isn’t a shock though is Jermaine Defoe scoring a 🎩 for Rangers. I recently suggested that Robbie Keane might do a good job for Boro alongside Fletcher. Regular goalscorers never lose the knack no matter who the opposition is.

  210. Just waiting for the comments following Adama scoring twice to beat Citeh, someone will blame Pulis for inserting the £18m release clause in his contract when TP was manager at Palace.

    1. Ian
      Contracts are the responsibility of the management. Period. There is no club in the world that let’s a servant call the big shots.
      In any case the entire story of the release clause was a smokescreen, it is now perfectly obvious that this club would sell you if they could get a price.
      Someone likes Fry, do we say ‘go away’?, don’t think so, we say ‘the price is 20 million’. So, not much room for bargaining there then.
      I, of course am delighted that one of ours is strutting his stuff in the big time, this game is about dreams or it is about nothing.
      As things are we could be in for some more of the same, because this coach really does not like Tav. He lost his temper when the press asked him why Tav. Had missed out on last season, and of course bad mouthed him.
      In a no goal (and, for that matter a no soul team) Wing should be at most 10-15 yards behind the attackers throughout the match and of course playing from the start, After all Gested has not been fit.
      Just a thought, he surely cannot be here when we play West Brom,
      If he is then I fear a trashing.

      1. Plato

        Totally agree about the selling aspects. Some did blame Pulis at the time but the club were keen to sell. Whether any money was wisely spent is another matter but I suspect the wages for Adama and Paddy needed to be take in to account as well. Both will have been at the high end of the range at the club.

  211. One way to look at this. Imagine that time is running backwards. We start the season with a terrible away loss at Birmingham, a stuttering home draw to Preston then a stinker of a performance against Sheff Wed. A week later we are brushed aside by Cardiff. After the first four games we have one point and there’s no sign of the high press we were promised.
    Last game before the break we manage a 1-0 home win against Reading. We go into the break with 4 points and have

    After the break we come back with a draw against Bristol City in a game we could have won. A draw and win at home against Wigan and Milwall: signs of improvement. A disappointing loss to Blackburn Rovers is followed by going out of the cup to Crewe but at least we score 2 goals and came back from the dead.

    We still manage to lose 1-0 Bentford but it seems to be mostly bad luck and then there’s a high-scoring draw away to Luton before the next break.

    We’re worryingly low on points but you could argue that the overall performances have improved and we’re starting to score goals. We would be looking and thinking it’s been ropy but there’s signs we’re going in the right direction.

    Of course time doesn’t go backwards. It’s the team going backwards in both performances and points.

    1. Very good Deleriad but if we follow your idea to its conclusion then Woodgate would be sacked after the Luton game and replaced by Tony Pulis – either that or put Martin Amis in charge until we get to the UEFA cup final…

  213. We have to sort the left side now.

    Captain George Friend has been out and isn’t due back imminently and will be out four or five weeks.

    Then Marc Bola has had some tough outings in the first couple of months as a Boro player.

    That resulted in Woodgate saying after the latest game: “Hayden will be back after the international break hopefully.”

    But we cannot expect Hayden to be back to his best after an injury. So we might need to try Bola there again.

    Up the Boro!

    1. We miss Friend. And we could have done nicely with Downing in front of the left back too. The latter was a fine footballer but now we have to go through the transition period.

      Up the Boro!

    2. Perhaps it’s time for Woodgate to do what he floated when he got the job and play as many of the enthusiastic youngsters as possible who will play without fear. Coulsen, Tavernier, Wing, Walker – though I didn’t realise that Wing is not that young at 24, in fact he’s only 4 weeks younger than Paddy McNair who is never mentioned as a youngster – even Ashley Fletcher is now 24 too, whilst Fry has just turned 22 but plays with a lot of maturity. I think if a player is not looking the part at the age of 24 he probably needs to move on to find his level – so Fletcher has to prove he can score goals for Boro, otherwise it may be time to look at other options come January.

      Also quite a few players are out of contract in the summer, notably Ayala, Friend, Howson, Shotton, Johnson, Gestede and indeed Coulson – they will all leave for nothing unless they are offered new deals. It may be time to decide who of those, if any should stay. It probably means they wouldn’t raise much in terms of a transfer fee if any were sold in January but I suspect they will certainly reduce the wage bill. Britt is not out of contract until the year after but if the club want to see any return on the £15m then he will need to be sold soon.

      Incidentally, most of those are either 30 or approaching 30 with quite a few having birthdays before January – Gestede is 31 in a few days, George will be 32 in a couple of weeks, Ayala and Johnson will be 29 in around a month or so, Howson will be 32 before the summer with Shotton already 31. Hard to see any of them being offered new contracts – Ayala possibly but he’s picked a few injuries in recent years and would need to take quite a pay cut. Incidentally, Clayton is also 31 in January but has a contract until the summer of 2021.

  215. That means there could be a need for a complete re-build of the team which does not bode well. Shows a bit of naivety by MFC to have so many contracts all maturing at the same time.

    Let’s hope that one or two contain extension clauses that can be activated, as we have seen before how difficult it can be to try and integrate just a few players, 9/10 could be a bridge too far.

    There again, if we are relegated we might need to let them all go to reduce the wage bill and we will be back to playing the kids and looking for free transfers.

    January may be a very important window for us in more ways than one! 😎

  216. If we are in trouble in January then with the possibility of a drop into League One contract negotiations are nigh on impossible. Especially considering that they will likely all be offered significantly less anyway even if we had been in the Play Off spots.

    Based on Dijksteel, Browne and Bola I’m not convinced that their “lined up” replacements are going to hack it whichever League we are in. Another consideration is who would want to join a relegation threatened club in January even if we were to bring in suppport?

  217. I agree that if we are in trouble in January then we have no wriggle room at all.

    The best we can hope for is that we some how create a bit of space between ourselves and the bottom three and then look at making changes but given previous windows that is easier said than done! 😎

  218. Assuming we want to keep Coulson I don’t think we would want to retain any of the others with the possible exception of Friend and/or Ayala. All of them (bar Johnson) would need to take a significant pay cut, I imagine all are on a minimum of 15-20k/week.

    It would be nice to start next season with a core of academy players – Fry, Tav, Wing, Walker, Coulson, Wood, Malley and then add to that with the money we have saved on the above contracts with some young talents from the lower divisions and perhaps a smattering of experience (maybe Friend, Ayala, Clayton). Let’s take what we can get for Britt and perhaps even Randolph as well (if Pears is ready to step up). I suppose this might be Fry’s last season here as well if he is getting interest from PL clubs.

    Then Woodgate could be judged properly. Although whilst there may be some attraction in watching that team take on League One, that really isn’t a risk I feel we could take.

    1. I’ve just posted below on the youngsters at our disposal but I’d agree that Boro need to be pragmatic in getting some return from all the money we spent in the last few years – it would be profligate just to allow many of them to run their contracts down and leave for next to nothing – Britt being the prime example. Fry may also have to be sold for decent money if we can’t raise funds to strengthen the team in areas where we need it given we have other prospects coming through.

      btw I suspect given the reported size of our wage bill and the impossible to refuse contracts that were being offered a few years ago – you’re probably looking at around £30k per week for many of those players.

  219. McNair/Saville will still be under contract and could be added to the list of experienced players.

    We will also have Bola, Dijksteel and Browne under contract.

    The two questions to be answered are:

    1. Will they all want to stay given the clear out and reduced contracts on offer.

    2. If they do stay will they be good enough as a team to hold their own.

    If we do drop down then I imagine that those out of contract will move on.

    Where ever we finish this season there is still a lot of sorting out to do similar to what ever happens with Brexit! 😎

  220. There were some pluses for our region over the weekend although none of them involved the Boro. Firstly (I know that I shouldn’t be using that word as I was taught at school that it was grammatically incorrect, but I’m too old now to change my ways), so firstly it was great to see the Riverside almost at full capacity at the weekend for the ladies international and the atmosphere generated by a Teesside crowd. It’s disappointing that our ladies seemed to have the same affliction when it comes to missing goalscoring opportunities, but everyone seemed to enjoy the occasion.

    Secondly, on Friday night our Speedway team now going under the name of Redcar Bears will take an 8 point lead going into the second leg at League winners Leicester in the end of season playoffs on Friday. The Bears lost away there in the League by 8 points so a close contest should be in store. After several postponements due to inclement weather this fixture is now the middle one of 3 matches in 3 days, the other 2 being home and away meetings against Newcastle Diamonds in the Cup Final. As the Diamonds finished second from bottom in the League, the Bears are naturally favourites and could finish the season completing the double in knockout competitions, but one match at a time please. Incidentally I’m pleased that our Speedway club once renowned as Middlesbrough Bears have reverted to being called the Bears after several years in between at the Cleveland Stadium as Teesside Tigers.

    Back to football matters and Boro in particular, I sense that anger has now changed to despondency and apathy, which is a real shame after the hope that the appointment of Jonathan Woodgate gave some fans the hope of a new beginning. I feel that Steve Gibson has taken the easy way out in appointing a local lad with little financial backing as he did with Tony Mowbray. Some say that choosing s local lad never works, but it certainly is working for Chris Wilder at Sheffield United, so I would discount that notion. The position Boro are in is mainly the fault of our Chairman who put Garry Monk under too much pressure in stating that Boro intended to ‘smash the League’ and then seemingly giving Monk carte-blanche too sign players for inflated fees and on inflated salaries. The ridiculous fee paid for Assombalonga springs to mind. Burnley wanted Britt and made an offer of £9m as I recall beating Boro’s original offer of about £8m. He then sanctioned a bid of £15m to blow away the competition, foolhardy in the extreme, as foolhardy as Anthony Vickers conducting a Tripe Supper recording whilst driving along the A19 following Friday night’s match. It’s been said that Boro’s defence needs to concentrate; the same applies to drivers.

    Now Boro have to revert to a system of shoring up the defence, a defence which for much of last season was the best in the League. Talk of Boro playing better against the better teams in this League is pie in the sky, as will surely be tested in the coming weeks. Woodgate must now choose a system which is the best available to include the players we have at our disposal and stick with it. He’s experimented with several systems so far but that seems to confuse the players. The time for experimenting are over; find the most suitable and draft in the youngsters where necessary as Birmingham did on Friday. Despite losing their last 3 matches, their supporters were up for it from the start. Will Boro fans have the same impact? We could do with the support that the English ladies received on Saturday, or has despondency and apathy now gone too far?

  221. We shouldn’t forget that both Browne and Bola are only 21 with Dijksteel 22 and perhaps should be seen as longer term prospects who are still learning their positions. Boro should have probably targeted players with a bit more experience in summer with those in the 24-26 age bracket.

    Britt actually joined us when he was 24, which meant he had a few seasons behind him of scoring goals – though those seem quite a long way behind him at the moment.

    In theory, we have Wing (24), McNair (24) and Saville (26) who should have enough energy and ability to make the midfield an engine room capable of competing. Defenders can afford to be more mature in their years but we also have Sam Stubbs (20) and Nathan Wood (17) who are good prospects to add to Dael Fry (22) and Hayden Coulsen (21) – not to mention Enes Mahmutovic (22) who is currently on loan in Holland.

    In terms of attack, there’s Marcus Tavernier (20), Ashley Fletcher (24) and Stephen Walker, who is 19 next week. That gives us quite a few promising young players to rebuild with but it’s less likely many of them will get to play much football if Boro are in a relegation battle.

    Many of our more experienced players are looking less dynamic and perhaps the team does need freshening up. If you consider Howson was bought as a goal-scoring midfielder with a previous record of 47 goals in just over 300 appearances at Leeds and Norwich, then his 4 goals in nearly 90 games at Boro should be seen as a failure. Clayton does what he does but again he’s not someone who fits into any expansive team with just one goal in his 170 games for Boro – plus he’s become our free-kick specialist and seldom delivers.

    The big question is whether Woodgate has the ability to rebuild and organise a new young and exciting team – it’s one thing to have the young players learning on the job but another to have a young head coach doing the same. It seems to be working for Frank Lampard but it’s always easier if you have good players who deliver.

  222. The main issue for me on Friday was the was how easy Birmingham found it to attack our left flank.
    Shotton is a half decent centre back, not quite as good at right back and pretty shoddy at left back. He’s also not particularly suited, I don’t think, to our new system, where players need to be quick and agile. I don’t think either could be used to describe Shotton. All that said he was woefully exposed with zero cover in front of him, Browne seems to be struggling to adapt to his new team and system.
    I also think that our centre backs are struggling to adapt to having to deal with attacks where cover in front of them is thin on the ground, Fry and Ayala who we all know are good players look anything but at the moment.
    A transition to a new system which is the polar opposite of the old system most of the players were used to is proving to be a painful process and a new manager who is learning as he goes adds to the challenge.
    As Borophil said, Pulis new the capabilities of the players but we the fans didn’t like the answer, now we have to suffer the pain until it all comes together.

    Its not long since City were in League one and look where they are now!

    We’ve got some tough looking games coming up, but football is ‘a funny old game’, who knows what might happen.

    There’s always hope…………..

  223. Playing centre halves at full back definitely isn’t part of Woodgate’s plan. Shotton is at best his fourth choice. It doesn’t bode well for Paddy Reading in the reserves (who is 20 now) if he hasn’t had a look in.

  224. Borophil, agreed. The implication at the start of the season was Dijksteel at left back, Fry & Friend as centre backs and Bola or Coulsen as right back. With injuries we haven’t come close tot hat back four yet. Although it would be to over simplify it to suggest that was the root cause of our problems. The causes are many and complex, sorting them wont be quick or easy.

  225. Nigel

    I must admit I thought it was Dijksteel on the right and Bola on the left.

    They are both inexperienced at this level and in truth at any level. It will take time for them to develop, ideally you wouldn’t want too many newbies in the team at any one time.

  226. Nigel quite rightly points out that our problems are many and complex.

    One of which is that we are still playing square pegs in round holes eg Shotton at left back.

    If you have to make do, then surely you seek to minimise the risks by playing a player who is in part equipped to do the job.

    Playing a left footed player on the left does that and there are players available to JW who could fill in. Johnson, Saville and Reading are all left footed. Why is it that we supporters can see that playing RS in that position is high risk but JW cannot?

    As Nigel says, our problems are complex and many. 😎

  227. To be fair to JW, I thought Shotton filled in fairly well against Reading and could understand why he went that way again against Brum. Shotton there against Reading was probably the most secure we’ve looked down that flank, certainly since Coulson got injured.

    Good point from BoroPhil re Patrick Reading – I’d completely forgotten about him and that he played there a few times in pre-season.

    The truth is that with Friend and Coulson both out and Bola looking uncertain, we don’t have a qualified left back at present. Whoever plays there is filling in and will have plusses and minuses for the role. The same can probably be said about playing with wingbacks but I do feel that the extra centre half provides some more cover and a greater likelihood that we’ll be able to deal with the crosses that inevitably don’t get cut out.

  228. Yeah I can understand the appeal of playing Shotton there to Woodgate. An experienced head, he can help at corners, his long throws are back in play. But ultimately he will struggle against quality opposition and he won’t offer the attacking threat from full-back that we want.

    They have 2 weeks to work with Bola now and hopefully get him into a position where he can come back into the team. (or Coulson recovers)

    1. I am not even convinced that Coulson will offer an improvement defensively if and when he returns. Looks great going forward but left big gaps behind him.

      I also do not think Woodgate would throw him straight into the lions den that will be WBA. I think he should go for safety in numbers with a three and possibly the likes of Johnson/Saville and Howson. Clayton, McNair and possibly Wing plus Tav and Britt.

      I am not saying that we could beat WBA, but at least put a decent show and should be good enough to get enough points off other teams to stave off relegation.

      Of course can Woodgate see the error of his ways and look to points first and style later, much later.

  229. Andy

    I agree that who ever is employed as a stop gap will have strengths and weaknesses.

    It is also about seeking to minimise risk and to me it makes more sense to ask a left footed stop gap to play on the left than a right footed player who, which ever position he plays in, is always likely to cause us a problem.

    At the end of the day it’s a game of opinions and it’s JW’s that counts at present. 😎

    3. If Brexit has taught us anything then it’s always possible to put a positive spin on anything before it happens or indeed fear the worst. I’m not sure if Woodgate has got an alternative to our defensive backstop but perhaps defending can take place away from the border of our 16-yard box without the need for visible infrastructure, such as full-backs who know how to defend crosses. Either way, we need some good deals fairly soon or they may be a vote of no confidence in the current regime.

  231. Werder

    The EU and German citizenship has got to you, typical Europeans take two yards off the 18 yard box without consultation. That is the problem.

    If we disagree they will ask us to have another vote until we vote for a 16 yard box – but beware the EU commissioners will be knocking at your door asking why you are using yards instead of metres.

      1. Sorry Werder, but as a remoaner, I think that was a Freudian slip and you want a VAR on the original vote when the UK population had the temerity to vote the wrong way and the electoral commission didn’t raise the flag.

        I voted remain but have a bizarre view that a vote is a vote.

        1. I’m not quite sure who said “Voting was put in place to give citizens the illusion of choice” but Brexit has become one of those illusions that will need more than smoke and mirrors to solve. Thankfully, it’s not something that I am directly involved with as I neither had the vote in the referendum and am now a German citizen. Though I suspect the only way everyone will be satisfied now is with a so-called ‘no deal’ Brexit – so one half of the UK can have the satisfaction of saying “I told you so”…

      2. Werder

        The whole thing is a mess with all parties sticking to their vested interests. A real dogs dinner.

        Just as well our beloved team is in better condition………

  232. Elsewhere, it is good to see Bolton playing and against another club where the owners have never covered themselves with the sweet smell of Roses.

    Good luck to both Blackpool and Bolton.

  234. I’ve juśt watched a bit of the Bolton v Blackpool game, which ended in a hard-fought 0-0. James Husband was at left back for Blackpool.

    The camera showed Alan Stubbs, ex Everton stalwart and father of our boy, Sam, sitting in the stand. (Or has our Sam moved on?) The commentator said he’s now a scout ‘with Middlesbrough’. I didn’t know that. Well tonight he will have seen terrific defending from Blackpool’s back four. Perhaps Boro are thinking of raiding the Seasiders in January? Heaven knows, we could do with someone who can defend properly!

  235. Always thought James Husband had potential and did not quite get the opportunity at Boro. Though did he fail at Norwich I think?

    Another LB of course is Joe Bennet, moved around a bit and as we saw a couple of weeks ago, at Cardiff.

    Is young Reading really not ready or is it the defence is so fragile Woodgate does not want to test him.

  236. Good points about Reading and Spence, Wood, Walker by extension. I suppose the U23s don’t seem to be pulling up trees so it might well be that Shotton at left back is still better than Reading, in which case Reading clearly hasn’t made the grade.

    For a different perspective, here’s a column about the failings at Man City this time https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/oct/07/pep-guardiola-manchester-city-darth-vader-death-star-dark-side

    Guardiolo plays a high press with Man City but opponents are figuring it out. This being in part because he hasn’t got the mobile, comfortable on the ball defenders he needs. If you set up right and attack them down the wings then you can beat them. Sounds familiar.

    I suspect that Woodgate hitched himself to the high press bandwagon with the wrong players and at the wrong time. Now he has to find a formation that fits the players and instil some self-belief. Easier said than done.

  238. Contrary to what people might think I don’t particularly look for misspellings or inaccuracies in the Gazette, but some things just hit me in the eyes straight away. There is a report about football agent James Featherstone being charged by the police following a pub brawl in Bowdon near Altringham. At first I assumed that it was just a typing error, but when the same incorrect spelling was given again as his address, I realised that the writer didn’t know how to spell Altrincham, obviously just spelling the town how it is pronounced. I realise that the Gazette reporter had merely copied the article from another source, but surely how irritated some of us rightly became over the the misspelling of Teesside as Tees-side and particularly Middlesbrough as Middlesborough, I would have thought that our local reporter would have corrected the spelling, or is it just a question of laziness to cut and paste? Or more likely I’ve become too pedantic in my old age?

  239. Ken

    Aye abslutly agree with wot you right on mispelings. Its the kers of the age. Its particlarly the missuse of apostrophes’ that gett’s too me.

    1. Clive
      Very funny, I hope I’m not becoming a Victor Meldrew. It’s just that I’d have loved to have become a Sports journalist and it irks me sometimes that those privileged to be in that position are so poor in the use of the English language. I exclude Redcar Red and Werdermouth from such criticism as I envy them and realise that I could never aspire to reach their standard, but I expect more from some of today’s journalists. I might add that I would never criticise any contributors on this forum for their misuse of our language as few of us are professionals. However on reflection I wondered if I’d been a bit harsh viz a viz Altrincham as their might have been a town in Greater Manchester with a similar name, but there isn’t. Now I could forgive someone outside our region getting mixed up between Eaglescliffe and Egglesciffe, but a sports journalist should know that their is a football club spelt Altrincham.

      Although I hope not, I might sound like the great Pam Ayres husband. For those not familiar with her poems, here’s the one I refer to:-
      THEY SHOULD HAVE ASKED MY HUSBAND
      You know, this World is complicated
      And imperfect and oppressed.
      And it’s not hard to feel so timid,
      Apprehensive and depressed.

      It seems that all around us
      Tides of questions ebb and flow,
      And people want solutions,
      But they don’t know where to go.

      Opinions abound around us,
      But who is wrong and who is right?
      The people need a prophet,
      A diffuser of the light,

      Someone they can turn to
      As the crises rage and swirl,
      Someone with the remedy,
      The wisdom and the pearl.

      Well they should have asked my husband;
      He’s a man who likes his say
      With his thoughts on immigration,
      Teenage Mums, Theresa May,

      The future of the Monarchy,
      The latest Brexit shocks,
      The wait for hip replacements
      And the rubbish on the Box.

      Yes, they should have asked my husband,
      He can sort out any mess.
      He can rejuvenate the railways,
      And can cure the NHS.

      So any little niggle,
      Anything you want to know,
      Just run it past my husband.
      Wind him up and let him go.

      Congestion on the motorways,
      Free holidays for thugs,
      The damage to the ozone layer,
      Refugees and even drugs

      These may defeat the brain
      Of any politician bloke,
      But present it to my husband,
      And he will solve it at a stroke.

      He’ll clarify the situation
      And make it crystal clear.
      You’ll feel the glazing of your eyeballs,
      And the bending of your ear.

      You may lose the will to live,
      You may feel your shoulders slump
      When he talks about the President,
      The certain Donald Trump.

      Upon these areas he brings
      His intellect to shine
      In a great compelling voice
      That is twice as loud as mine.

      I often wonder what it must be like
      To be so very strong,
      Infallible, articulate,
      But never ever wrong.

      For when it comes to tolerance
      He hasn’t got a lot.
      Joy riders should be guillotined
      And muggers should be shot.

      The sound of his own voice becomes
      Like music to his ears,
      And he hasn’t got an inkling
      That he’s boring us to tears.

      My friends don’t call so often,
      They’ve got busy lives I know,
      But it’s not every day you want to hear
      A windbag suck and blow.

      Google? And Safari?
      On them we never call.
      Why bother with computers
      When my husband knows it all?

      Just to add a couple of lines of my own:-

      I hope that in the winds of time
      I’ve made a contribution
      To this forum Diasboro
      But now self retribution.

      So come on Smithy, tone it down
      When criticism becomes a farce,
      For you ought to know much better Ken
      That no one likes a smart arse!

      1. Whoops, there you go. I can’t be the infallible husband of Pam Ayres as in the penultimate line of the first paragraph I’ve written ‘their’ instead of ‘there’.

      3. I have cycled from Egglescliffe to Rockcliffe via Eaglescliffe. So I know the two names!

        If I remember correctly it was Eaglescliffe Juntion in the first place. So you could blame the British Rail if that still exists after privatization.

        Was it the same chap or his relative who misspelled Middlesborough originally it to become Middlesbrough all those years ago?

        Up the Boro!

  240. The January window could be very interesting ,if these older players whose contracts are winding down , have had no indication of new ones, then any offers that may come in ,might see them push to leave, some could sign pre contracts with other teams causing issues ?
    We won’t get decent fees for them anyway ,their stock is falling every game .
    End of January the team could look very different what like is the big question.

    1. I think the January window will be very interesting for Steve Gibson

      Some new sash cords to replace at Rockliffe Hall and a few glazing beads.

      So should be an interesting window

      OFB

  241. Interesting talking about the youngsters breaking through. I have always been an advocate of
    1. If they good enough they are old enough
    2. If you give them a squad number and a salary then use them.

    The caveat is that if they are thrown in at the deep end in desperation then it can harm their development. It is always better in a relatively settled side bringing in one or two at a time.

    There are always exceptions – ManU and their great youth cup winning squad, not forgetting the group of players that followed Downing in to the Boro team.

    Are we at desperation stakes yet? I think we can settle the team down with better use of what we have and still be progressive.

    Bola and Dijksteel may be like Judas Ziege. An average right back but international class wing back. Coulson looked to be good getting forward. 352 could well work, Tav as one of the front two would be a preference.

      1. OFB

        And Liverpool were fined for an illegal approach. That’s right, not us for reporting them but Liverpool.

        Mind you tapping up has gone on for years. The market for old replica kit is massive fuelled by players who suddenly claim they were a boyhood fan of XYZ

        If offered the chance to go Liverpool you would take it.

        1. Ian

          Yes but Liverpool didn’t know about the release clause until Ziege was upset by the Boro and told his agent to make other clubs aware of it

          Sorry I can’t say any further but was told the details during one of my In2Views

          OFB

  242. Ian

    I just hope that JW and his coaching staff are reading and considering some of the very apposite posts on Diasboro over the last few days. 😎

  243. The Gazette’s analysis seems pretty much spot on to me. Recent results have been unacceptable, Woodgate needs time. Future transfer windows are the key. Not particularly controversial.

    I have to say if you find yourself agreeing with the angry people who tend to post on the Gazette’s comment sections you are probably on the wrong side of the argument.

  246. Can anybody enlighten me or possible others on here……..Dijksteel is what?

    Signed as a RB; I believe, but then we find out he actually only played in that position towards the end of the season and a few games at that. Then I read his previous position was CB. Then yesterday I read dominic Shaw saying he had been a defensive midfielder before his conversion.

    So is he a “jack of all trades” defensively, but a master of none?

    1. I believe Dijksteel moved to right-back from defensive midfield for Charlton for the last two league games of last season and the three play-off games after their regular right-back Chris Solly was injured. Though not sure how many times before that he covered at right-back.

      1. Just to add, this what London journalist Richard Cawley was quoted by the Gazette as saying about him when he signed for Boro…

        “He was initially moved to right-back as cover for Chris Solly. He didn’t look comfortable there straight away but in the run-in last year he went from strength-to-strength. At the end of last season he made that position his own and looked absolutely nerveless in the play-off games.”

        This is what Charlton manager Lee Bowyer said when asked if he thought his best position was still in midfield:

        “No, I see him playing at right-back. He’s reinvented himself really, grasping an opportunity. He’d hardly played there but at the end of last season there was no way he could be dislodged. That speaks volumes for how well he’s done.”

        So he was barely an experienced right-back at League One level so it will take him time to adjust to playing against better forwards in the Championship.

  247. All this general excuse fest, is the knee jerk reaction to our new untried inexperienced Coach visibly crashing and burning.
    There were a lot of reasons to avoid him like the plague, they were ignored, it is obvious by now that last season he was left in charge of the team, whilst Pulis tried his hand at being a club doctor, both crashed and burned, and we ended up with a whole lot of trash (overpriced? but of course, overpaid, you could say that) they are unsaleable, you bet they are!
    The reason it is obvious that he was at work last season, is that the same teams are being picked week in week out, the same people left out, grimly, methodically, he hangs himself with the same blunders.
    He picks Tav. (man of the match, natch) national press are on him like a rash, they know Tav. has been ignored for a full season, cue hissy fit. “Tavernier had a decent game and night progress, if he is picked?”
    I am very much afraid we have hired a fantasist, And it will be terminal.

      1. I guess many of the fans would but perhaps Steve Gibson wouldn’t. Although, I see Sunderland are actually only three points above 12th place and 8 points behind leaders Ipswich – though only 4 points behind second placed Wycombe with a game in hand, who they play in two weeks. Seems a little harsh but I don’t know how they’ve been playing this season.

  250. Werder, so why chase and sign him, when we needed an established right back, not at this time somebody who may develop in that position. Two mil for League 1 is not really that cheap,,,,is it?

    1. I seemed to recall that Dijksteel was touted as Woodgate’s number one target and I think we made three bids until it was accepted – it does sound given what we know now that it could be viewed as overpriced but that’s what Charlton, who didn’t need to sell, wanted for their promising youngster. He also fitted the age profile of what the club wanted to buy – i.e. players who may increase in value. The fact that he was relatively new to the right-back position is perhaps a little odd but I think Woodgate knows Lee Bowyer quite well and would have trusted his opinion. Dijksteel has looked probably the best of the three summer signings and I was impressed by his calmness and he also looks two footed – clearly his positional sense is lacking but at over 6 foot he has physical presence and I think he’s got a good chance of coming good – though he doesn’t look much of an attacking full-back in the 433 mould.

  251. We should have looked for someone to fit on the left side. There must have been some free agents available.

    I see that James Morrison was released in the summer by WBA. He spent twelve years there, mainly as a central or attacking midfielder. We remember him from the right wing but at 33 the Darlington-born midfielder could do a job at nr. 10 in a Boro team.

    I know he has had injuries in recent years but if fit now, he could do a job for us.

    And there could be some left-sided midfielders or full backs available, too. They should be keen to get a short term contract and a chance to train.

    Just saying, like. Up the Boro!

  253. I have to go along with Anthony Vickers’s answers to fans questions. It’s probably not what many of us want to hear, but Boro were in a tight corner financially pre-season and Jonathan Woodgate was probably the only person willing to take charge of the club under the circumstances. He should be in a better position in January with the sale of Braithwaite and the possible sale of Randolph. Eric Paylor also mirrors AV’s views, but unfortunately it is what it is (I know, a much used phrase).

    What is a concern (I never use the word ‘worry’ as there are far more major issues to worry about than football), is that the team is in a relegation dog-fight which few of us expected. But after January I do expect to see Boro pull away to a comparatively better League position. I can’t imagine that Steve Gibson will sack Woodgate, as there appeared to be no other alternative given the financial constraints. One problem that all clubs face is being unable to refresh a team until the January transfer window. The worst start that Boro have made in my lifetime was after being relegated from the First Division in the 1950’s, just one point from the first 9 fixtures, but Bob Dennison had the luxury of being able to sign 3 players immediately afterwards which Woodgate hasn’t. Also of course there was a maximum wage at that time.

    There are surely at least 3 teams worse than Boro over a whole season in this League and probably a dozen or more with inferior players, but with a tough schedule of stronger opponents in the next few weeks Woodgate is correct in saying things may get worse before they get better. .

    One point I don’t go along with though is how taxing it is for clubs to be facing 3 matches in 8 days. Before clubs had floodlights clubs had 4 successive midweek games at the start of each season. In fact the football season usually started around the third week in August almost 3 weeks later than nowadays but with a 42 game season, yet 3 matches over both Christmas and Easter was the norm. However there were no international breaks nor League Cup matches, but it was often said that players would rather play in a match than train.

    So although I think that it would be undesirable to be relegated this season, I’m fairly confident that when Boro are able to supplement the existing crop of players in the January transfer window that Boro will gain enough points not to be concerned about relegation.

  254. Ken

    I have heard it argued that players can be too fit. I know the Gemmill family and when Scott was at Everton, as for all players, they were obsessed with getting his body fat down. I have seen more fat on a matchstick.

    You see it in cricket, players dont play the matches they did in the past and now specialise in different formats. When fiery Fred was playing a normal week would be two three day games and a Sunday League match. They also fitted travel in to that programme and no motorways.

    It is a different world and sports science has moved on. All clubs monitor their players so it is a level playing field.

  255. Well we’ll be heading over to England on Friday for our autumn visit but won’t catch a game this time as half-term has coincided with the international break – could be a blessing I suppose.

    Anyway, As we will be driving over in our car with German plates, just a quick thanks to Dominic Cummins and particularly Aaron Banks for stirring up anti-German sentiments over Brexit. The odious Banks and his Leave.EU group tweeted a quite repulsive image yesterday, which has since been deleted due to the condemnation, which basically cuts through the extremely thin veneer that this particular group of Brexiteers are anything other than racist xenophobes who want to incite anti-foreigner sentiments in the ignorant masses (hopefully not many) who think Britain is still somehow at war.

    Here is the link to the image that was tweeted by Leave.EU

    1. I have seen the whole Brexit as an internal thing of the Tory. They are really CONSERVATIVE – like it say in the tin can 🙂 No progress in mind.

      We have much, much more important things going on in the world nowadays. Like global warming. I can see it practically every week up here in the real North!

      Up the Boro!

      1. Jarkko

        In the run up to the referendum it appears I was a lone voice on here saying if you think it was just an internal Tory issue then you were asking for trouble.

        The chattering classes, the luvvies in the media, the non Tory political parties, the establishment and the EU thought the same. They all sat there with smug smiles.

        UKIP wasn’t made up of solely ex Tory voters. The biggest votes for exit were in labour heartlands – wasn’t it 78% leave in Teesside? After the referendum their vote shrunk and the beneficiaries were both Labour and Tory parties.

        You ignore the ordinary man in the street at your peril.

        I voted remain but I also voted for a trade organisation in the 70’s. I didn’t voted for Brussels.

      2. It’s fair to say that what started as an ill-thought through Tory election strategy under Cameron to try to avoid losing votes to Nigel Farage’s UKIP by offering a referendum has continued under Johnson with another reckless election strategy to try and out-Brexit Nigel Farage’s Brexit party by claiming leaving without a deal is actually a way to solve Brexit. Granted it would actually take the UK out of the EU but without solving any of the problems but that’s just a minor detail.

        I read a good comment yesterday that said something along the lines of ‘Politics is the art of making the people vote for you by promising the impossible, whereas Government is the art of finding solutions to deliver what is possible to satisfy the people.’

        The last three years have only seen politics and little evidence of any governance…

      3. Ian, I’ve said this before but before the election in 2015, leaving the EU only occupied the minds of small percentage of the population and in fact UKIP support was in decline. The problem comes once having held a referendum campaign and everyone has taken positions on a binary issue it has become blown out of all proportion to any desire to leave the EU had before the vote.

        What’s more it’s unlikely to be resolved now for a minimum of 5 years and possibly as long as 10 years if the UK leaves on bad terms. There is no solution that will easily work or put the matter to bed and it could indeed create a whole set of new problems also with no solutions. Just imagine if Scotland voted to leave the UK now – if you thought Brexit was a complicated nightmare then that will be ten times worse. We could even see a United Ireland referendum at this rate and that will never end well.

      1. Don’t let’s go there Weder! Brexit has stirred up a right old hornets nest and like you I am not sure when it will be fully resolved. Certainly not for a generation I suspect.

        Most of the media have been complicit in the leave narrative and you only have to look on the Daily Mail comment pages to understand how a fair few people have no idea about our democracy. And don’t get me started on the callers into radio stations! Some British bloke in Portugal voting leave because he doesn’t like Freedom of Movement! Words fail me.

        Anyway, for what it’s worth, I will be adding my voice and body to the People’s Vote March on 19 October, I couldn’t sit back and do nothing to try and protect the future generations.

        And as to Boro, well, it will be what it will be – As long as we stay up this season and JW learns from his mistakes, then that is kinda ok for me. We are operating in a new downsized world and it will remake time to adjust. I am old enough to appreciate that there are good times and not so good times but there is always something to look forward to!

        So, have a good trip back to Teesside Weder, maybe you need to add a Boro sticker to the car as well. I like to think that most people are actually very reasonable and not as biased as the right wing idiots!

        UTB

        1. I think having a so-called people’s vote or second referendum plays into the hands of the leaver narrative that it’s ignoring the democratic vote of the first referendum in which Cameron foolishly set no threshold and promised the result would be enacted upon – plus he said in the Government literature the UK would leave the single market and the customs union. I think he did this because he never believed he would lose the referendum and thought it would shut up those in his party who would never accept that leaving the EU had been decided. Nevertheless it’s there in black and white to be quoted by everyone who voted leave.

          Now it’s fairly easy to argue that the leave campaign was based on creating an emotional reaction against the EU and it was in some way going to deliver a better future. The fact that after three years they still don’t have a coherent plan how this better future is going to be delivered and is now simply down to putting faith that everything is not as bad as it looks. Their job was made easier by the remain campaign failing to to produce positive reasons for staying in the EU and by the whole issue now being hijacked by all major political parties as a means of finessing their vote in the next election.

          So what I would do is respect the result of the first referendum and leave the EU with or without a deal but immediately hold a second referendum saying “Do you wish to rejoin the EU?” It can no longer be argued that Parliament didn’t carry out the wishes of the first referendum but it allows the country to discover if there is still a majority in favour of not being in the EU. Whatever the result of that second referendum, it will be based on people voting on knowing the consequences now rather than the decision being based on what was promised over three years ago. If people still vote to be outside the EU then nobody can argue it’s not the will of the people likewise if the people vote to rejoin then leavers can’t argue that the first vote was ignored.

      2. If you think it’s hard to leave the EU can you imagine the price we would have to pay to get back in, going cap in hand and asking my for scraps from the top table.

        1. Which is more or less the same scenario as negotiating a trade deal after leaving on a no deal Brexit.

          i.e. Based on Johnson’s proposition that the only way to get a good deal is the threat of no deal – therefore once you leave without a deal there is no threat left to get a good deal.

          That’s why the government will huff and puff and ultimately say they’re forced to have an extention as it’s the only way they can once again threaten no deal. The blame game is what they are using to save face.

      3. The people had a vote in June 2016. From that day on it was out of the people’s hands. No amount of media speak or binary arguments will change that. Leave or Remain, the die was cast.

        Nobody has a crystal ball, everyone is fed up with all the conjecture. Just get it done and take it from there.

        1. Politicians exist for defining what that tiny word “it” means in your last sentence. Everyone is still arguing about the very first step of the withdrawal act, which many people have actually forgotten is not actually the ‘deal’, which will take far far longer. The obvious problem is that the Irish border can’t simultaneously exist and not exist, which can only depend on either being in or out of the EU. If it wasn’t for Northern Ireland it would have been much much easier but neither the UK or the EU can agree how that border both exists and doesn’t exist. The basic problem with legal treaties is that the lawyers don’t like things that are not tightly defined and don’t have loopholes or anomalies – plus the House of Commons is full of lawyers too! Parliament told the people they can have something if they voted for it without working out how it can legally be delivered.

      4. People are suffering from the misconception that the 650 MP’s in the HOC are acting in the best interests of the people. There are figures on both sides of the argument that stand to make a great deal of money.

        Witness Gina Miller and her well publicised court cases and Joanna Cherry of the SNP and the recent Scottish court cases. These High Court actions and subsequent appeals don’t come cheap. It’s about time we were told who is funding all of these judicial cases. We’re talking millions of pounds.

        The Labour Party is a complete shambles ( and I say that as a lifelong supporter) The Lib Dem’s are just becoming political opportunists, and the SNP who want another referendum ( note to Ian Blackford if you want to leave the Union, call for a vote in England. We would give you what you want). The only way to solve this in the short term is a General Election. The original and possibly the best “ people’s vote).

        1. I’m not sure if the high court cases are motivated by money, Gina Miller’s cases were reported as being crowd funded and in Joanna Cherry’s case she was one of 79 claimants who were all bar one Westminster MPs. We’ve heard that Johnson campaign for Tory leadership and the leave campaign was backed by billionaire hedge fund manager Crispin Odey with apparently another three hedge fund managers also backing him financially. Although it should be said that Gina Miller is also married to the hedge fund manager Alan Miller – it seems hedge fund managers are never far from the action. I heard Jeremy Corbyn has a hedge fund but it’s only for his allotment to replace the fence he’s sitting on …

  261. To bring it back to football, some may say that Brexit is a tool designed to deflect attention from the demise of Manchester United.

    To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, you would need a heart of stone not to laugh.

    2. Young boy goes to Father Christmas and is asked, what would you like from Santa?

      Boy. A unicorn.
      FC. A unicorn, no, you have to be realistic.
      Boy. After some thought, MAN Utd to finish in a Champions League place.
      FC. What colour unicorn.

  262. It sounds like Boro players will not be having as much time off in the international break as they normally would after Woodgate said he’s reducing their break in a bid to turn things around.

    The head coach said: “I’ve learned they need to do the first things better, the second balls, stopping crosses, winning headers. The dirty side you’ve got to do and then you can play your stuff. We haven’t been doing that.”

    Sounds like a call for back to basics.

  263. I said a few weeks ago that in the desire to play a more progressive game we appeared to have thrown the baby out with the bath water.

    Good to hear that they are looking to get back to doing the basics correctly as part of a more forward based approach. Keeping fingers crossed that they can deliver. 😎

  264. Great reports coming from Scotland about Alan Stubbs son, 20 years old Boro player Sam. On loan at Hamilton. Hopefully he will be a great asset for Boro in the future.

  265. All the good teams do the basics well. In Wenger’s early years Arsenal played some top football but everything was based on a solid back five and hard working midfield. They had flair aplenty up front but they did the defensive side well.

    The defence played a high line, I remember the joke that the shirts of the back four were starched with the right arm raised!

    1. Foundations, foundations, foundations, everything ever built that lasted had good ones. It must be some coincidence surely, it couldn’t just be luck?

      I will forego a comment about needing foundation when transitioning, not very PC nor funny, a bit like Woodgate’s Boro at the moment.

  266. Shame about the rugby world cup matches being cancelled in Japan. You have to feel sorry for all the fans who have travelled for the match but safety is paramount.

  267. Two pieces of good news for me personally. I’ve received clearance to travel by air with wheelchair assistance for 67 days in Portugal from 5th January and that I’m back on line after my iPad jammed yesterday. Also I was pleased that my friends at Thomas Cook have all been given jobs with Hay’s Travel. It’s not pleasant when one loses one’s job, so am delighted for all of them.

  269. Just to return, for a moment, to football.
    All the attempts to switch the talk to side issues, you know, changing the way we play, complicated explanations as to why Tav. man of the match, was black balled. Even as we endured the ,’sickening six’, then as we flirted with a shot at the playoffs
    He was blotted from the scene.
    Continuing into this season, still no place, against all reason, even at the dire risk of the ‘Coach’s’ own job.
    That last item is the thing that fills me with dread. You have got to be pretty dumb to ignore your own personal lifeline, when all about is collapsing in ruin.

    1. I would use one word for all that “intellect”. It’s useful to have some of it when in management and more importantly knowing when to use it.

    2. If Tavernier is as good as you think he is, he would be in the first team every week. To suggest that TP and then JW kept him out just to spite themselves is quite frankly ludicrous. I’ve seen the boy play on several occasions now and I’m yet to be convinced that he should be an automatic starter.

      1. Tavernier

        Doesn’t get involved for large parts of the game

        No special awareness or what other players are doing

        Work rate tracking back often suspect

        Otherwise brilliant ?

        OFB

      2. OFB

        Probably right. Sounds like a standard description of many a gifted youngster with potential.

        Where Tav may have been hard done by is that the more experienced players playing instead of him have not particularly been delivering.

      3. GHW
        Which brings us to the eternal question?
        If Tav. should not be starting, where does that leave the starters?
        Bottom and deservedly bottom. Better players on the bench (or the beach) coach not making sense (never has made sense).
        The only points he has scored are for style, and that was for chair throwing (learned, I presume on holiday in Ibetha )
        When in a hole, stop digging. A universal rule of life, it applies in all cases, see the list of walking wounded from football alone, all with similar records to ours, all, all, gone with the wind, it’s a glory job, the rules are not harsh, they are brutally fair, can you do the job, or not?
        All the attempts to persuade us fans that all is well, are pure fantasy, and will end, as ever with us in a lower division.

    3. I must be missing something from the start of this season. Who is the nailed on better player than Tav in our two rows of three aside from McNair?

      If tracking back is a serious measure then Browne is worse than a car crash in that department. Being cynical I’d even say Bola was the worst of the lot and he’s supposed to be a LB. Marvin is probably the most mature, astute and dependable but far from ideal.

      As for taking a man on and creating something will the new Maradona please stand up please because Jonathan Woodgate desperately needs to see who it is (not you Rudy, stay still you might do yourself an injury getting up). Meanwhile I haven’t seen anyone who has offered anything more than Tav but I have witnessed plenty that offer a lot less especially at Birmingham.

  270. To be fair OFB, and of course we can only comment on the last two matches this season, his tracking back has been good and better than the majority.
    But then he would have to continue in that vein.

    Again, let’s once more hear about Gestede, injured again and out for some weeks. I would say he IS taking the proverbial.
    Come up with an acceptable package and move him out. It must irk most if not all of the other players?

    1. Pedro,

      I’m surprised there is any proverbial left for him to take. To me he’s like a leach fastened on to the club. If ever a player broke his contract with a version of dumb insolence it’s him. What a pity Boro can’t stop paying him after all you could argue he’s broken his contract, the man is an injury magnet.

      He could probably get injured pulling the zip on his toilet bag.

      UTB,

      John

  272. From the little I have seen Tav looks to have bulked up a bit, as long as he doesn’t lose the spark and speed that should make him a better player but of course he has to put it in every match.

    1. There was a synergy between Wing and Tav last season, something which is difficult to quantify. They did seem to have an uncanny knack of anticipating each others runs and movements. Something that I would have thought ideal for a fast, high tempo attack.

  273. Sad to see that Craig Hignett has been sacked by Hartlepool United for the second time. What is it with Pools, 14 managers in 5 years starting with Colin Cooper? I’m old enough to remember the late Fred Westgarth who managed the club from 1943 to 1957, and in the early part of his tenure Pools often finished in the bottom two of the old Third Division North and had to apply for re-election several times as was the norm in those days. Yet the club persevered with him, and although they never gained promotion under his tenure, by the late 1950’s were never out of the top 5. Football Clubs want instant success nowadays, yet Westgarth holds the distinction of being one of the longest serving managers of all time, certainly in the lower Leagues. Only Dario Grade who spent 28 years as manager and later Director of Football at Crewe Alexandra can beat that record.

    Bad decision to sack Hignett in my opinion.

    1. Ken
      Love your kind words about kindness.
      But to then describe the track record of failure (serious) over twenty five seasons as an example of someone coming good over the long term is glorious.
      if Gibbo reads that, then we are in for a serious number of suicides on Teeside.

  274. It seems strange that Saville is an automatic choice for his country, yet can’t get a look in at MFC. It was the same last season with McNair.

    Let’s hope that whatever method was used to transform McNair can be equally applied to Saville.

    1. Its a simple answer play him in the role he performs best in, its worked for McNair. Where did he play and how was the team set up at Millwall around him when he hit his purple patch? If we don’t know or take it into consideration then its an awful lot of wasted money. I don’t believe he is as bad as he has been for us but I’m pretty sure he didn’t play wide left at Millwall just the same. I’m pretty sure Randolph didn’t play as a CB for West Ham or Birmingham or indeed the ROI.

      Its a bit of a Stuani scenario all over again. If we try it and he bombs then fair enough but imagine if we sell him to say Huddersfield or Stoke in January in a cut price £2M deal and he then bags then half a dozen goals between then and the end of the season from midfield. Imagine the backlash in the Gazette comments section if that happened.

      1. I was impressed by Saville last night and he worked tirelessly along the left hand side which made me think that it be worthwhile trying him in the left wing back role. It shouldnt need a manager to get a shift out of a player but hopefully JW can instill the same work rate as Michael O’Neill did last night.

  275. Yes he did but as a stop gap and not to any great extent.

    He needs to be played in what he considers to be his natural position. If he can’t make it work and do the job the team requires of him then he will have to be sold and replaced with some one who can. Simple personnel management. 😎

    1. Here is a YouTube video of the goals Saville scored at Millwall.

      https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=George+Saville&&view=detail&mid=7A472027F10AFF1F635B7A472027F10AFF1F635B&&FORM=VRDGAR

      There doesn’t seem to be a preference or a common theme, left foot, right foot, squirmed left footed free kicks, headers, scrappy goals etc. Most of them do seem to be opportunistic in and around the 18 yard box and not out wide or as a Left Wing Back.

      Perhaps he and McNair could be a potent mix along with Wing but that would likely mean dropping Clayton. Instead we could maybe play McNair in that central Clayts defensive midfield role but with attacking intent. Breaking quick, having Saville and Wing alongside to turn defence into attack?

      2. If you wanted to get all 4 in then I guess a 442 with a midfield diamond:

        Clayton
        McNair Saville
        Wing

        I don’t think we’ve got the functioning fullbacks at the moment to plat a narrow midfield though.

        From what we’ve seen of Saville so far – and he has played in central midfield alongside McNair – I don’t think we can say he’s justified a place. Injuries, tiredness and suspensions will come which will give him his chance. At the moment I’d say he has to wait.

  276. Andy R

    I agree that we dont have full backs suitable for a narrow diamond in midfield, that is like playing 433.

    352 seems the way forward with the middle three of the five coming from Howson, McNair, Wing, Saville and Clayton. The problem is still the wing backs.

  277. I see Ian Holloway has been enthusing over our new Manager presumably after his recent visit to Rockliffe. ‘There’s a little bit of Real Madrid in his coaching methods’, I wonder which bit that is? The defending presumably, perhaps the midfield dominance or slick attacking play?

    If the Gazette keep trotting these stories out they will eventually convince themselves that we are merely “transitioning” while many watch on in horror at the disjointed slow motion car crash unfolding. Football is a sport and sport is all about winning. The peripheral benefits are nice to have but winning has to be the objective, losing is inevitable at times of course but failure to even put up a fight won’t keep fans onside for much longer. As the season has progressed it has become worse, not just noticeably worse but much worse.

    All this acceptance and defeatism being polished and regurgitated will fool a few for a very short time but time flies quickly. If things are left as they are then the inevitable will happen and pulling out of a tailspin will be no easy feat for whomever has to pick up the pieces.

    Creating a positive slant is one thing but there is nothing whatsoever to be optimistic about other than the feint hope that come April/May three clubs are run a lot worse than ourselves. A Manager who lacks a lot, supported by a Coaching team lacking just as much and all underpinned by an Executive who have failed previously on countless occasions. Those same Executives who at the launch espoused fanciful spin and then weeks later after talking the talk didn’t walk the walk. Still Holloway is friends with Pulis and Pulis apparently rates Woodgate highly so all’s good and the League table must lie after all.

  278. A very apt assessment of things as they stand RR.

    Non of us who feared from the outset at the potential consequences of JW’s appointment are enjoying what has unfolded todate.

    He was on a hiding to nothing from the outset and not helped by a poor squad and lack of investment.

    I fear that come December things will not have got much better, in fact possibly worse, at which point SG is probably going to have a number of crucial decisions to make which could impact on both club and supporters for years to come if he gets them wrong. 😎

    1. KP

      Based on his decision making since 2006 I wouldn’t be too comfortable that his next decision will change the course he has set MFC on. To me there is no point in making the Captain walk the plank if he keeps the Vice Admiral and Rear Admiral that charted the mess the Captain stupidly found himself in.

      There again maybe its all part of a cunning plan. Ayala, Howson, Friend and Shotton depart along with Fry (who brings in some cash) and like as not Randolph to raise a few quid then next season in League One we have Mahmutovic, Stubbs and Woods at a level they should be comfortable with alongside Dijksteel and Bola with Pears or Mejias in goal. Anyone still buying into the transition thing that is the reality of what it really meant and where it is going to take us.

      That many of us take zero pleasure in fearing the current situation back in the Summer doesn’t bring any pleasure. Quite the opposite in fact and lets face it, it hardly took a genius to predict.

      I suppose we will foolishly believe that we will smash League One as well and not for one second believe that we could possibly languish there for a decade or even more in front of six thousand crowds or less. Come December I hope SG has a seasonal visitation from the Ghost of Football past, the Ghost of Football present and the Ghost of Football yet to come.

      1. RR
        I am also very nervous about what decisions SG may or may not make in December. I cannot, however, believe that the corporate plan is built on an expectation of being relegated.

        To do so in my view puts the whole viability and existence of MFC at risk. I also cannot accept that SG is prepared to allow what would effectively be a substantial devaluation of his major asset.

        We have been relegated twice during my time as a supporter. I started to attend matches in 65/66 and whilst we came straight back up in both 66 & 86 there is no guarantee that this would happen a third time.

        I said when we were relegated from the PL that if we did not gain promotion the following season then we would probably be confined to Championship football for many seasons and so it has proved.

        If we are relegated this season then I fear we could follow the likes of so many other well known names, Portsmouth, Coventry, Bolton, Sunderland and Ipswich.

        Should that happen then in my view it would be seen as a complete failure of SG’s stewardship and would obliterate all of the good things he has achieved in the past. 😎

  279. Sport sometimes loses a sense of perspective. The biggest typhoon for 60 years, over 1400 km across, winds up to 140 mph hits Japan.

    Rugby matches have been cancelled, the match between Japan and Scotland may be cancelled, an match important as far as the tournament is concerned.

    But, and it is a big BUT, whilst emergency services are struggling, the first death reported, Scotland are thinking of taking legal action if they cant play and the match isn’t re arranged.

    I am sorry but my views are let everybody help those whose lives will be in tatters, If the match can go ahead that is fine, if it cant stop being selfish.

    1. I think the Tournament should have been delayed for 72 hours (or as needed) and then resume, keeping it the same for all the sides. Its important and too important to be getting to this stage of a competition and then decide teams progression by what amounts to a virtual toss of a coin (OK two points each). I’m sure it would cause huge logistical problems but nothing insurmountable or beyond the wit of man. The Formula One Grid positions at Suzuka are now open to possibly being artificially adjusted so its not just Rugby or Scotland thats affected by the Typhoon.

      That said it all pales into absolute insignificance and is nowhere near as important as the safety and welfare of those who live in the region and who are facing a potential scenario far far worse than a mere ruined sporting event (just ask Boro fans about two world wars and what could have been). If the devastation is as bad as the worse case feared (hopefully not) then cancel the entire tournament and resume it in three or four months time starting from where it was left off.

      1. Yet again we see a governing body failing with regard to a major tournament.

        By all means hold the tournament in Japan during the Typhoon season but build in some contingencies to allow for matches being disrupted. Additional dates could have been included to allow for such eventualities. Whilst this could have impacted spectators it would at least have maintained the integrity of the tournament rather than turned it into a lottery. 😎

      2. The good news is the Scotland match is on and the placings will be decided on the pitch.

        I take both yours and KP’s points that things could be moved but it is difficult in Typhoon season. Having been in Florida with three hurricanes in a fortnight you never knew which way they were going to go. By luck we were always either in the middle at Orlando or on the opposite coast when they went by.

  280. Reading. This blog I get the impression that a lot of people think that Gestede is swinging the lead.
    I do not agree, in my opinion he arrived here with a quite serious injury. We have managed to get him on the field several times, and each time he has left the field injured, several times he has not been touched by an opponent, so in my opinion we are dreaming if we expect him to play for us any time soon.
    You may ask why we have not had the medics on his case, got him on the table, put it right, and bobs your uncle.
    Well, our very good left back has tried to come back from injury several times, then they told us that he needed an operation to put him right.
    Well, shiver me timbers! Who would have thought it, a season wasted for the sake of a medical intervention.
    The above tells you all you will ever need to know about the mad House that is Boro

    1. It does seem that after an absence “Crockliffe” is possibly making a comeback.

      There again maybe someone on the medical team is doing a great job in keeping Gestede away from the line up?

  281. 4-3-3

    An experienced CB with an inexperienced CB alongside him.

    Two underperforming FB’s who couldn’t decide whether or not to push up or stay back.

    A central 3 comprising of two holding midfielders and the third trying to support a front three all by himself.

    A front three who were chasing shadows as the opposition by passed them and utilised the gaping space left behind them in the midfield area.

    Blushes almost saved by great goalkeeping but inevitably losing out by conceding a late winner.

    Southgate/ England or Woodgate/ Boro?

    A prime example of how it can go wrong with poor team selection and tactics.

    1. GHW

      What I don’t understand is why is it that many of us who do not have any footballing qualifications, other than being seasoned supporters, can identify what is wrong tactically when those that are managing the team can’t?

      Is it a case of not being able to see the wood for the trees or one of being wedded to a certain system come what may? At times it just beggars belief.

      1. KP,

        I think the problem is having a vision when there isn’t one.

        Laudable ideas and theories but trying to put them into practice without the experience, players and forgetting that most opposition managers can see right through it and out the other side. Then there’s believing your own PR.

        UTB,

        John

      2. The answer is probably that we can’t. I can pretty much guarantee you that if tactics, formations and players were chosen by the fans that it would be a disaster.
        Every fan of every team in the world thinks they can do better.

      3. I think fans seeing that we don’t have the squad to play fast pacy 433 is correct. I think the fans can see that trying to persevere with would be inexperienced fiddling while Rome burnt. Having a long term goal to acquire and develop players suitable for that system is fine but even the most junior of managers knows that you have short term, mid term and long term plans. Those above him/her certainly should!

        A starting point is with the here and now and making the most of what you have whilst you put in place your plans and strategies to maintain the business through the implementation stages or phases. The fans can see that isn’t happening at MFC and while this mess is imploding we have senior Execs charged with directing the business looking incredibly even more out of their depth than they have done for the last few seasons.

        If you run a bus company you can’t suddenly change all the routes if the drivers haven’t a clue where they are going, where the new bus stops are or worse still haven’t actually got the buses to service the routes. You can’t change a restaurant menu by poisoning half your customers as you trial and error your way through a new menu.

        Similarly seeing that Britt doesn’t work in a pacy 433 or as an isolated Striker cut adrift from his team mates doesn’t require a high degree of technical understanding. Seeing a side trying to win a two legged Play Off semi without attempting a remote attempt on target doesn’t need badges or certification. If I have a dripping tap I don’t need a Plumber to tell me that a washer needs changing or if I plug something in and it doesn’t work and nothing else has power that something has tripped doesn’t require an Electrician’s expertise to spot the obvious.

        In theory I shouldn’t be able to do as good a job as a trained professional but I can drive yet don’t posses a bus driving licence, my culinary skills are basic but can scramble eggs, I can change a washer and can flick a switch on a distribution unit when needed. Despite my skills gap it doesn’t prevent me and other fans from knowing when something isn’t right when the bus doesn’t turn up in the pouring rain or I end up with football poisoning (sorry food poisoning).

        Could I do a better job than the best of those professions, absolutely not. Can I (and many others) do better than “some” supposedly skilled in those trades, absolutely yes. Not because of specific skills but because of general experience in solving problems and tracing things back to source and identifying causes. We have all at some point had that uncomfortable feeling watching a Tradesman in our homes attempting to remedy something knowing that he hasn’t a clue what he’s doing.

    2. Must admit GHW watching that gave me flashbacks to Boro. At the time I joked “Typical England”. It doesn’t help when a few of those players shouldn’t be anywhere near an International team. It will be interesting to see how long Southgate perseveres with the likes of Rice. Although I can’t stand the bloke Grealish is a class above several of those in that side.

      1. Obviously Mount is a good player, and should develop well, but Grealish is a game hardened player who battled his way through the championship and almost singlehanded dragged Villa into the PL.

        Definitely should be in the England starting lineup.

  282. Deleriad
    Of course a very large group of fans would never agree on the team.
    That is not the point.
    We are being badly managed, by people who should be better than that.
    Always the victim in the buying and selling of players,(that makes you poor)
    Football is about money, fact, no money no team.
    Unable to judge a player, fatal,
    Unable to judge a manager, fatal.
    How am I doing up to now?
    I have not got onto selling yet, but it does not look good,
    I must go now but feel free to talk among yourselves.
    We have plenty of players in demand, and would be gone in days.

  283. Well in the end I’ve had to give up on my second iPad that’s been underperforming now for a few months just like some Boro players. However I decided to get rid of my old friend before the January transfer window for £59 in exchange for a third iPad for £349. I thought the transfer would go along smoothly, but as in Football it rarely does. I spent nearly 3 hours at PC World with the hope of transferring some 750 photographs from the old one to the new one, but because being almost senile I couldn’t remember my old password. Strange isn’t it that I can recall Football matches that happened 70 years ago, but can’t remember what happened 3 or 4 years ago.

    Anyway back home I discovered that Virgin Media didn’t recognise me any more, and they wanted to know the password on the underside of my modem. Being handicapped proved difficult in tracing it amongst all the connecting wires which would have been a challenge for a contortionist never mind someone with handicap difficulties, especially as the password had some dozen or so letters in upper and lower case with numbers also. Anyway eventually I managed to write them down, but still it took 65 minutes on the phone before at last I was on line.

    Then I found that messages from Apple could only be sent on my landline whilst I was at PC World, but not to my mobile phone. Eventually there were 7 messages on my iPad asking me to get in touch with them, but how could I when Virgin Media no longer thought I was a customer? So once on line I rang Apple and they transferred my photographs by 8pm. I wondered how I’d managed to beat the transfer deadline if indeed if there was one. I could now understand the frustrations of the Football transfer window, but of course didn’t have Jim White speculating if the transfer would be successful. Anyway all’s well that ends well, but I hadn’t eaten for about 10 hours.

    Luckily I’d recorded the Rugby Super League Final so was able to watch it whilst having dinner. As I went to bed just passed midnight, tired but satisfied that everything was now ok, I checked on a toilet visit at about 4am the to see if my iPad was fully charged. I found that my iPad had gone to sleep with the screen almost in total darkness that I was unable to read it. Anyway I’m glad to inform everyone it has woken up and I was able to brighten the screen to full capacity this morning . The last 24 hours deserve to have a poem written about them, but you know, I don’t think I can be bothered. Probably a relief to fellow bloggers on this forum!

  284. Back to the subject of miss management at boro.
    There isn’t enough time left in the world to describe the monumental Blunders committed by our respected leaders.
    To continue with the buying practices of our heroes.
    The habit of talking with and to prominent figures in the game as you beg and or persuade some very moderate performer to honour us with his presence, is foolish in the extreme.
    The selling of players is not considered a serious business in the game, and people will, for a consideration, say the appropriate words that land you with a very large and expensive lump of rubbish.
    To sign anyone who has not played a full part in the last 10? Games for his club is an open invitation to be sold a Croc.
    To not have the opinion of a fully paid up scout who has watched this player in all of those matches, and I do mean a complete run down of all the things that a player needs to improve your team, not forgetting character as a man and a player, is something that this club have forgotten.
    You will have noticed that to commit the above crimes would have landed us with many players who cannot, frankly, play to championship standards.
    If you act in the same way over picking a manager, then you are destined for trouble with a capital T

  285. Well, Japan played Scotland it was a great game. I listened whilst I replaced light fittings rushing to catch the replays of key incidents. It was good it was settled on the pitch but I still threatening legal action is such an horrendous situation was out of order.

  286. Nice to see that some of the old bloggers on here are still active – unlike me. I recognise that I have disappeared from the scene for a while. I am fine, unlike the football. I have not enjoyed much that I have seen for quite some time. I have immersed myself in cricket and rugby instead and I have to say that football loses out in comparison to those sports.

    I still go to the games at the Riverside, but I will almost certainly miss the next home game against WBA. That should be the last game I miss until next Spring.unless something untoward happens. I doubt I will feel bad about missing the game, and I may well listen on BBC Tees but, really, it has been bad fare, hasn’t it?

    I suppose being 1-4 down at half time against Sheff Wed was a low point. Drawing at home against PNE was almost a joy in comparison but we were brought back down to Earth again by the defeat at Birmingham. If we had got a draw after our late equaliser, it would have been daylight robbery. The team couldn’t even be described as looking like finishing second in a 2 horse race – had it not been for Randolph the team would have been dead and buried by half time. It was good of the lads, therefore that they saw the impending injustice had they managed to escape defeat, so they conspired to put things right in injury time, to ensure the defeat which had seemed the most likely result for most of the game..

    Does anyone know what Boro’s Plan A is these days?

  287. Hi Dormo. Welcome back.

    It’s been a funny old season. There’s a lot to like about the wish to go back to an attractive brand of football and a recruitment policy based on in-house talent and up and coming prospects and yet a fair amount to despair about in the way that it has actually turned out. It’s almost at the stage that we will have to consider the possibility of a ‘therapeutic’ relegation but I’m still enough of an optimist to hope that it won’t come to that.

    Plan A is a grandiose concept but doesn’t appear to have the elements necessary for it to succeed. The single biggest weakness is the complete lack of left -footed ability in the back four. Thus poor old Shotton, despite great effort, is getting turned inside out and left vulnerable and Fry seems to be huddling close to Ayala for protection leaving even more gaps. As I see it, the whole point of playing a defensive midfield player is for them to slot in between the two centre backs enabling them to cover sideways in the event of an opposition flank attack. This simple idea doesn’t seem to have got through. Just bringing back Coulson or Friend won’t solve the problem and I’m tempted to think that the ideal set-up is a back three of Ayala/Shotton, Fry and Friend with Howson and Coulson as wing-backs. However, injuries don’t yet permit this so we will have to see what they come up with. It does also beg the question of what young Reading has done wrong after looking quite promising in pre-season. Isn’t he worth a shot if the others are still injured.

    Anyway, it would be typical Boro for them to suddenly turn up against West Brom and deliver a good performance. We can but hope.

    UTB

    2. We have played better aginst the top teams this season. As we used to do in the old days, too.

      Perhaps there is more time for our players than versus team playing more traditional Champioship football. Rush, run and head, like.

      Nice to see my old pal, Dormo back. I hope some more attacking football will be seen at the Riverside soon.

      Up the Boro!

      1. Jarkko
        I think the habit of playing well against the top teams, which is true. Its been our thing, over the years, is a product of undisciplined players.
        You skive on the training ground, tick.
        You do not try too hard against the lesser teams, tick.
        You are not a tight unit, there are divisions amongst the players, tick.
        You think that coaching is an over the top idea, possibly useful for lesser players, who needs practice to send a boring corner into the box. Tick
        You think that taking a penalty is easy peasy lemon squeezy, and there’s nothing special about missing one, the true sign of a pro is the big smile when it goes into the stand. Tick.
        You think that the sign of real panic is picking a lively youngster just because you are on a trot, the true pro would never do that, believing that form is temporary but class is permanent. Tick
        If in addition to the above, you are saddled with a manger who is posting numbers that would get sir Alex sacked. And that’s another tick.
        Watch this space.

  289. AV may be tempting fate with his article today on Southgate’s 0-5 drubbing at home to West Brom ten years ago. Today only Danny Coyne and Tony McMahon remain (or at least have returned) who remember that day as painfully as many on here do. The likelihood is that a similar scoreline or worse may well be repeated on Saturday but with the “hope” (note how many posts above have been using that word) that it may become a defining moment for all the right reasons for Woodgate and Boro.

    It’s unlikely that whatever the outcome Saturday will see us in the bottom three with Barnsley at home to Swansea, Huddersfield away to Blackburn, Reading home to Preston and Stoke “entertaining” Fulham but it may be the weekend where the Championship starts to split into three visible groups, Those challenging for promotion, those entrenched in mid table mediocrity and those sinking fast, struggling to stay afloat.

    I suspect Huddersfield may have steadied their ship and start to grind out a few results. Stoke I think are a car crash of a club and in a worse state than we are but are also likely to part company with Nathan Jones and Michael O’Neil, Chris Hughton, Neil Harris and David Moyes all favourites to take over before the month is out, not to mention those cavalier duo, Pulis and Karanka. Even big Nige and eternal pessimist Mick McCarthy are being touted. Should one of those take charge then I can’t see them not improving. Hopefully Coates will stay loyal to his man and in doing so drag his club down to League One.

    I struggle to get my head around Reading. They seem a decent side with a few players I wouldn’t mind up here at the Riverside but for whatever reason its just not clicking for them. That’s despite some serious expenditure in the summer funded by their realistically (compared to Pride Park) valued £26.5m Stadium sale.

    Barnsley I suspect have killed off their best hope of surviving with Stendel departing. Of course Wigan, Luton, Hull and Millwall could all be dragged down here, we just have to hope that they manage to start dropping more points than Boro over the next few weeks before a gap starts opening. Being five or six points behind survival safety come the end of November could start to look like a mountain to climb for whoever is stuck down there.

  291. Great night for England, sad night for UEFA.

    UEFA now have to either make a stand or brush it under the carpet once again like they have done spinelessly and apologetically for decades. Must say I was disappointed by the PC response from Greg Clarke, sometimes in life you have to stick your head above the parapet and goad the protagonists and the apologists. Toleration is nothing more than meek submissive surrender under these circumstances.

    In a time when the world needs great leadership none is forthcoming, whether it be here in the UK and the Queen shamefully placed in full Panto guise, Trump’s incompetent ignorance or the EU’s greed for land grabbing under a thinly veiled “Union”. Ignorance and inaction is not acceptable, no wonder sport is in the state its in, sad times we live in.

    At least Gareth showed showed some decorum and diplomacy and called it out before the event forcing the Officials into a situation where ignorance or deaf ears were not an option.

    1. Yes, turn a blind eye, and then???

      I do not think we have ever had such a shortage of leaders in everything in life.
      Worse is the PC and Liberalism speak we have to listen to.

  293. I agree with Redcar Red’s comments. One answer is to expel Bulgaria from EUFA. However, acts of racial abuse seem to be recurring in our society and there are a section of so called English football fans who whistle or boo when opponents National Anthems are played. It doesn’t happen in other sports, and although not a National Anthem, as a nation we love to see the Haka performed whenever the All Blacks or Kiwi Rugby League matches are played.

    The fact is we still have a mindless minority of football fans in this Country who think booing opponents National Anthems is a form of showing pride to be English when in fact it has the opposite effect. Such people need to have their passports withdrawn but that doesn’t solve the problem of abuse at Wembley Internationals. However with CCTV in this Country we ought to be able to identify the culprits. I’m not saying it’s easy, but we must endeavour to single out these people in our society and enhance the punishments the Courts are allowed to give at the moment.

    Nevertheless, full marks to our English players in their tolerance under extreme provocation.

  294. I found only the first goal scored by our Paddy in the internet. As I am not able to see the goal links on the Gazette site (they can be seen only in the UK), I must wait for other links.

    There was also a link on mfc.co.uk site, but again only for the UK.

    Finally we have a goal scoring midfielder at the Boro. Up the Boro!

    1. Problem Jarkko, is come January he will be subject to bids from admirers. Weren´t Celtic interested? And of course there will those Championship clubs in the top six who just might see him as improving their side.

      We paid 5mil I think. MFC would probably take that and think, now we have a spot for our 7mil player sitting on the bench.

  295. Sorry, just realized that I need to change my work VPN to the UK. The first goal was great and the second was for Britt to learn on what to do when right through. A nice one against one and finally the keeper beaten by our Paddy.

    Up the Boro!

  297. RESPECT
    A big word but a simple word that the FA use in their logo to try to eradicate abuse. But in fact there is less respect in general today in society as a whole than there was 70 years ago. Respect for one’s elders.
    Respect for school teachers.
    Respect for the Police.
    Respect for anyone in authority.
    Years ago most children wouldn’t dream of being disrespectful to any of the above. Where did it all go wrong? Was it the abolition of National Service, or the fact that the next generation had no discipline?

    Who would want to be a school teacher today? When I was a pupil you were expected to call your teachers ‘sir’ as a form of respect, not by their Christian name. The boy that lived next door to me was caught stealing as many of us did as an act of bravado. His father took him to the Police Station where the sergeant gave him a ticking off, but a caution. None of us ever stole again.

    Whether the pacifists might be against National Service, it gave the youth of the day a form of discipline. I admit I would never have volunteered to joining the Armed Forces, but it made a man of me and many others. Discipline brings respect, and the fact that everyone was in the same boat, National Service brought out a camaraderie and team spirit that is sometimes lacking in society today. One met youths of different backgrounds, Jews, Roman Catholics, black people, etc. but you would never steal from your mates. During the War years it was not unusual for people not to lock their doors when going out: today that would be considered extremely foolhardy.

    Of course one has to earn respect, and today it is not always shown by the Police, our MPs or the Monarchy. As regards to sporting behaviour, cheating is prevalent in all sports excepting possibly golf and snooker. There is fierce hatred between fans of their closest neighbours which didn’t happen in my youth. It has become tribal. Why should it feel necessary to give a minute’s applause in commemoration of a former players’s death lnstead of a minute’s silence? I think we all know the answer to that one. They say that travel broadens the mind. Tell that to some English fans who are not even tourists, never mind travellers. Apart from Benidorm or Ibiza, many of them haven’t a clue where they are on the map. One may well ask why it is necessary today to play National Anthems at international Football matches, but that is another question issue altogether.

    Having got all that off my chest I accept it is a small minority today that brings our Country to shame. Maybe alcohol is the problem. Nevertheless that is no excuse for racism which is still prevalent in England today. Have we not learned anything since the folk of Hartlepool hung a monkey believing it to be a French spy? Respect and tolerance are what would expect from mankind today, and I’m very pleased to say that this forum leads the way in that regard. We are all gentlemen with the occasional lady on this forum. Some of us know eachother socially, but many of us do not. We all care for eachother showing compassion when needed: a camaraderie which National Service brought to those of us ‘lucky’ to have experienced it. Maybe some form of community service would benefit some of today’s generation.

    Teaching the rest of the World that racism or indeed any form of abuse should not be tolerated though is more difficult to control and sadly I doubt that any sanctions will have much effect. Perhaps Pam Ayres fictional husband is right after all.

    1. Spot on Ken. (Though interestingly and ironically my phone tried to autocorrect me into “Spit on Ken”.)
      I have often considered it not to be the generation that was first to avoid National Service, but the subsequent generation. In other words a generation who were more likely to have parents without disciplined ethics to hand on.
      Not scientific, just my observation, but I’m sure it has some truth to it.

  298. Powmill

    My parents instilled in me that you must be honest. Some times it was better to say nothing but do not lie.

    I remember a conversation with Spartak Boro. This is a non political point.

    The right honourable gentleman, the leader of her majesties opposition was on a train accompanied by a suitably aligned reporter and photographer. There was a subsequent picture of him sat on the floor with a coffee complaining about lack of seats.

    The pillock, other terms are available, no parliamentary breach here, had picked on the most media savvy person in Britain so Branson dug out the CCTV footage showing that the right honourable gentleman had been a tad economic with truth, AKA he walked past plenty of empty seats.

    Spartak’s view was that it was ok because he was making a point. My parents would have giving me a thick ear for telling fibs.

    The problem is across society, honesty doesn’t matter. Well, it does in our house.

    1. Sadly we are experiencing a secondary perhaps even tertiary given the ages of some mothers of generations who believe themselves entitled to do what they want. The fact that our judiciary are spineless, weak and unfit for purpose gives many a feeling of invincibility to the detriment of the many that work and support the communities from which they voraciously feed. Policing is now an embarrassing dysfunctional joke whilst politicians from all parties milk the gravy train for all they can get while routinely and blatantly lining their own pockets.

      That knuckle dragging morons boo and abuse national anthems as a nation we are stuffed unless and until we get leaders who do exactly that lead, and when I say lead that also means by example. Out of 600 and something MP’s I can think of no more than half a dozen who are not oxygen stealers. The one good thing to come out of Brexit is the highlighting of just how incompetent and corrupt the House of Commons is. Don’t get me started on the House of Lords!

      1. You can add most legislatures to that list. The EU have people who seem immune to the rules national bodies face. Throw in the UN and dont event get me started on sundry sporting bodies.

        I am about to suffer abuse from the ginger poison dwarf north of the border. Here is an idea to focus minds. Lets assume everyone remains as part of the current alignment on these isles.

        Scrap assemblies/parliaments and only have Parliament. Let non English MP’s sit in their own countries two days a week, English MP’s can sit in Westminster, then gather for the other three days at Westminster to discuss issues covering all the countries that make up our islands.

        Locally issues sorted locally, national issues nationally. Think of the savings that could go to the NHS etc.

        Same goes for Europe, I voted remain, many years ago I voted for a trading body, I did not vote for the bloodsuckers.

      2. You and me both RR. Honourable politicians are very few and far between at the moment.

        And as for the intelligence of our MPs, words fail me. Many of them haven’t a clue and would not survive very long outside the Westminster bubble. Even our PM has been sacked twice for being economical with the truth!

        No wonder we are in the mess that we are in which is why I am making my small stand by attending the People’s Vote March on Saturday! I am sure we could all make a better fist of this Brexit malarkey.

        Call me misguided maybe but a lifetime of being a Boro supporter hasn’t helped!

      3. RR,

        I think Sky have started an alternative news channel that is Brexit free. Apparently 70% of the population are sick of the entire Westminster display and machinations. The Boss won’t let me watch the news anymore because I get too ‘angry’, obviously a lot of others do too. Will it make any difference? Answers on a postcard.

        UTB,

        John

    2. And because of the way I was brought up Ian, I couldn’t tell a lie to save my life. You are so right, It (honesty) costs nothing but is absolutely priceless in life.

    3. Read some of the other replies to your post Ian. Don’t let me get stsrted on the modern generation of politicians. A very, very, very apologetic sample of humanity for whom the truth is a concept very few of them understand.
      Part of the problem is the two party system that FPTP has spawned. No one needs to be true to personal principal because that is list in the tribal banality of us and them. Minority opinion is disregarded and the very thought of compromise for the common good is an anathema to most.
      No one individual or one party has all of the best ideas. Good government should capitalise on the best propositions from wherever they come.
      I am still feeling utterly betrayed by the liberals who for the sake of having a fleeting grasp of power accepted a referendum choice of some unnecessarily convoluted apology for PR or the status quo on the basis that the voting mechanism offered favoured them rather than providing a true proportional representation.
      I am afraid that for as long as we continue to subscribe to a wholly undemocratic FPTP system, then we will continue to get the quality of governance we enjoy today. How any party with less than 50% of the popular vote can rul e roughshod over a nation beggars belief and common sense.

      1. Powmill – I agree that FPTP is not fit for purpose although as you say it suits the two main parties interests. What is the quote, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

        I too get very shoouty at the news and the caliber of our politicians. Apart from standing myself, then I can feel quite helpless while they mess up our United Kingdom which is far from united at the moment.

        The divisions will take a generation to heal I fear.

        Anyway, soon back to football matters once the international break is over so that will be nice!!!

      2. Whilst I agree with you Powmill, remember Nigel Farage, like him or not, had more votes than the SNP and Plydd Cumbre? And no seats.

        The one big problem with proportional representation can be seen in Spain at the moment. A disaster.

      3. I worked in Local Government all my working life and became disillusioned at the amount of corruption that occurred. As officers we were non political and when projects were proposed we gave our honest appraisal as to the benefits and finance of them in committee. But self interest and greed from councillors often ran roughshod over them.

        I worked for part of my time as a Finance Officer in the Recreation and Amenities Department, was often excluded from staff recruitment interviews as the Chairman had already promised someone the post. There were occasions when he wanted light bulbs for his own use and the stock keeper was told to charge them to some fictitious account. It maybe only a small item, but obviously gave a loophole for the stock keeper to steal items for his own use and charge them to the same account.

        The said Chairman who shall be nameless wanted a driver to tour various establishments even though he had a car of his own and chose a member of the Entertainment Staff to drive him around taking her from her normal duties. He also arranged Committee meetings in the evenings so that he didn’t lose pay
        from his employment, but still tried to claim financial loss allowance. Once Cabinet positions were approved some councillors wanted a sub of their wages so that they could spend lunchtime drinking with their cronies in the local pub. There were also times when tenders for contracts were opened indiscriminately when Council Officials were not present, when in fact they should have all been opened at the same time in front of the Head of Department.

        Life became difficult for me to control budgetary expenditure so that I was transferred to a position in the Treasurer’s Department to take over responsibility for Housing Benefits and Rates Income at the time that the Poll Tax came into operation. I was an accountant with no experience of Housing Benefits nor Rates Income but had to rely on my subordinates to teach me. In football terms it was like asking a centre forward to play in goal. I had become a nuisance to my Chairman in reporting what to me was theft. Eventually I suffered depression and reported sick. This lasted for 6 months visiting psychiatrists until the Medical Officer of Health recommended that I be discharged and that my early retirement should be financed by the Teesside Superannuation Fund. And I’ve never suffered depression again even after the death of my wife.

        I’ve deliberately not mentioned the Local Authority in question nor the name of the Chairman who has sinced died, but just wanted to show that corruption was rife in Local Government also.

  299. Watching England U21 playing European qualifying match against group leaders Austria, leading 4 nil at halftime, with 4 very good goals.

    Before kick off, Austria were 3 points ahead with England’s next fixture being away in Austria. Looking forward to second half.

    Come on BORO.

    1. Yup, it happens a fair bit. I worked for a company who had a specialist section that was involved in such lending to football clubs. It is quite a secure lend as the borrowed money is effectively guaranteed by the FA in the event of a club going bust.

      I also, for my sins, got involved in a deal to lend money to an agent for his share ahead of the deal all being paid out.

      I seem to recall that they did a deal with Boro for another player as well. Ut can’t remember who it was, certainly when we were waiting for Parachute payments.

  301. Clearly my long term friend Ken had a number of years working for a local Council which did not “do things properly”. I hope our readers don’t think this is the norm , so I’d like to share my experiences.

    I started in industry and then spent over 30 years in local government starting as a trainee accountant, worked for 5 different Councils progressing to Finance Director of Calderdale Metropolitan Council for the last 10 years .
    In that time I found the that the Councils I worked for “did things properly “ with Calderdale being the best.

    There was excellent respect between Officers and Councillors and the Council just got on with doing its best for the people it served. It was a pleasure to work for the Council and with Councillors.

    Indeed for most of the time it was a “ Hung Council” , with no party having overall control – just as we have now at a national level – but with a big difference as all 3 parties worked together and put political differences to one side in reaching compromises.

    Obviously, no two Councils are the same and there are good and not so good Councils to work for and my experiences seem to be the opposite of Ken’s.

  302. Philip

    Good to hear that there is still some honesty and integrity out there and that public servants do what they are paid to do, serve the public.

    The lack of leadership and qualities that my generation would expect from our government and politicians, is disgraceful. 😎

    1. Philip and I worked at Eston Urban District Council for a while and have remained good friends ever since. He has often mentioned as Director of Finance at Calderdale MBC of his close working relationship with councillors at that Local Authority. When I wrote that corruption was rife in Borough Councils I was probably being melodramatic, but it certainly was in the last Local Authority I worked for in the Teesside area.

      Philip will probably recall the association that the late John Poulson had with several North-Eastern Local Authorities especially as a consultant architect with Eston UDC. He was the man involved in the building of the new Council Offices and the Finegan Hall (now both since demolished) on Fabian Road and the Swimming Baths on Normanby Road. In later years Poulson was convicted of offering bribes to councillors and jailed for 5 years. I have no proof that he offered bribes to any Eston councillors for contracts although there were suspicions at the time, because that was proved later in court was the way he conducted his business.

      In the 1960’s Poulson also had connections with the Shadow Commonwealth Secretary Reginald Maudling who was keen to supplement his income. Briefly Maudling became Chairman of one of Poulson’s subsidiary companies after Poulson made a donation to one of Maudling’s wife’s charities. Maudling was able then to persuade the Maltese Government to award the contract for the building of a hospital on the island of Gozo to Poulson. That’s how business seemed to be conducted in the 1960’s and Poulson was often at the centre of it.

      Poulson also had dealings with the Leader of Newcastle City Council T. Dan Smith. Remember him of Dan Air? He was also jailed for fraud. So although to suggest that corruption in Local Government was rife might be stretching it a bit, I can only go on my own experiences.

      1. Ken

        As a Young Quantity Surveyor I worked on a few of Eston Council Projects and attended site meetings which were held by Poulson.

        I always took him at face value and respected his judgement and was quite shocked at all the allegations and scandal which ensued some years later

        OFB

  303. Which Boro player had the hardest shot? Lindy Delapenha, John Hickton or Lewis Wing, or perhaps I’ve missed someone?Further afield which player from another club would get that accolade? Probably few of you will have heard of Johnny Hancocks the Wolves and England winger of the 1950’s but it would be a close call between him and Delapenha from my recollection. But of the present crop of current players my vote would go to Lewis Wing.

  304. Just back from my autumn visit to Teesside and whilst there was no game to attend, it did mean more time to see some of the other sights with a trip up Roseberry Topping on a pleasant sunny Saturday afternoon, plus a nice walk at Robin Hood’s Bay and some walking in Guisborough woods.

    Anyway, not long to the resumption of Championship football again so I’ll start writing the next discussion blog article later today and plan to post it up tomorrow!

    1. Werdermouth
      Glad you enjoyed your trip back home. I used to enjoy walking up Roseberry Topping, Captain Cooks Monument, Eston Nab and Cringle Moor. I’d need a helicopter to drop me there nowadays. Wonderful views of our region though, great memories.

  305. A pivotal weekend for the club. Reading and Huddersfield are within touching distance, both will be looking to get something from the weekend, we have a tough match at home.

    Staying out of the bottom three is poor ambition but one step at a time. Another miserable defeat would blight the weekend.

    1. Re. Staying out of the bottom three.
      A good start would be the ability to name the starting line up.
      There has never yet been a team who could have any success without a settled team.
      We could offer a thousand pound prize to anyone who could name Saturdays line up and be in no danger of paying out.
      And let our manager enter, no sweat!

  306. Is it really only a fortnight today that Boro last played a match? I seem to be reading the same articles over and over again in the local press. Even on this forum some of the regulars seem to have gone into hibernation as if it it’s been the close season and yet there have been over 600 posts during that time. Has despondency changed to apathy, is anyone looking forward to the next match, or are we all expecting a heavy defeat? Or perhaps are we hoping from some inspiration from Werdermouth’s next preview? Well, I am after all the discussion about Brexit, racism, corruption, etc. which even I have admittedly joined in.

    Let’s get back to Football and the Boro in particular and hope that Redcar Red will have an entertaining match with the right result to report on tomorrow. Most of us have been through worse seasons than this, and they have nearly all followed the years following relegation. Come on Boro, surprise us all with 10/12 points before the next International break. Some hope? Why not, as Greavesy used to say ‘it’s a funny old game’.

  307. OK, the international break is just about over and it’s time once again for the Boro coaching team and players to prove they have a strategy to win games. I’m sure there’s been a lot of talk of mental strength over the last few weeks and everyone will be ready to run onto the pitch with determination. Just how long that lasts is anyone’s guess but we’ll hopefully see that Woodgate is ready to deploy his tactical acumen show the opposition that his his team have all the right moves (though not necessarily in all the right places) to check Boro continued slide down the table. Anyway, here’s my take on matters with the latest discussion blog article…

    https://diasboro.club/2019/10/18/2019-20-weeks-11-12-woody-ponders-next-move/

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