Following what has been described in the local media as an extensive four-week search for a new manager, the Boro hierarchy seemingly could find no better available candidate on the globe than a local man from Nunthorpe. Indeed, that man was apparently the recommendation of the recently departed boss Tony Pulis and it seems in the end Jonathan Woodgate’s vision of how he saw the team and club moving forward proved decisive. So impressive was Woody at his interview, he remained the odds-on favourite throughout the search as he saw off rivals such as the twice Championship promotion-winning manager Slaviša Jokanović and a whole host of contenders who shall remain nameless – though that’s mainly because nobody seems to know who they were.
Nevertheless, Steve Gibson has decided to put his faith in another Teessider and once again another untried or tested young manager. It appears to be a massive gamble by the owner, who many thought would be looking for a candidate with a track record of being able to demonstrate the ability to build a progressive winning team on a tight budget. With the parachute payments having finished, the next man in charge will have to juggle his resources and make some astute signings if they are to compete in the promotion mix. The overall task facing the new man was always going to be difficult one and would require a range of skills that would need some well-considered judgements. In some ways, it’s perhaps not too dissimilar to the one that faced a young Gareth Southgate as the team required rebuilding under the financial pressure of money becoming tighter.
Whether Woodgate will be taking an active role in recruitment is unclear at this stage and perhaps he will be left to concentrate on finding his feet in the new role of head coach instead. Reports that the club are looking to bring in former Boro coach Steve Round to assist their new manager may indicate someone else may have a greater input on deciding who will be arriving on Teesside. Eighteen years ago, Round joined Boro as part of McClaren’s coaching team at Boro but was dismissed by Gareth Southgate over what were described as ‘philosophical differences’ – though it’s as yet unknown what philosophy the latest ‘Gate’ is a student of. At least Round has an impressive CV after coaching for England, Everton and Manchester United. It’s perhaps his role as Director of Football at Villa that best gives a clue to what his duties may cover at Boro should he come on board – especially as he’s not had a coaching role for over five years now.
While the emphasis in the media has been about ‘refreshing’ the coaching team, it is the anticipated arrival of yet another old boy that has added the only real element of excitement. News that the much-loved Leo Percovich is to be offered a yet unspecified role in the coaching team has been greeted with far more approval than the drip drip imminent announcement of Jonathan ‘still firmly in the frame’ Woodgate. Cynics (OK that’s nearly everyone) have suggested this is designed to placate the underwhelmed masses on social media that have resorted to having auto-reply FFS-macros programmed into their smart phones as they stare at the ever-shortening odds on Woodgate. Many on Teesside are feeling flatter than carefully-ironed Flat Earth Society world map at the prospect that the manager search didn’t get much beyond the end of the road – let alone went global. Leo is certainly a crowd motivator and an adopted Teessider that definitely wears his heart on his sleeve – which was a relationship that became even more poignant following the tragic car accident that claimed the lives of his two daughters. Although, if it is as merely goalkeeping coach, then it may be quite an undemanding role with the experienced Darren Randolph looking like the best keeper in the Championship.
The latest person to be linked with the new coaching team is current Republic of Ireland assistant manager, Robbie Keane. The 38-year old claims he’s been offered the role of assistant manager to Woodgate but will still remain with Ireland. He’s known Woodgate for 20 years and says while he’s excited with the role being offered he’s yet to decide if to accept it. It would perhaps be a bit embarrassing if he now turned it down having gone public and also outed Woodgate as the new Boro manager – though apparently he’s yet to talk to his wife about the prospect of moving to Teesside and we know from recent playing targets that ‘Geography’ is often against Boro.
So Middlesbrough Football club is about to enter a new epoch – whether Woodgate will be seen as a fossil of the Jurassic football that the Pulis era served up will remain to be seen. In fact, the longevity of the new manager could be a brief one if he fails to hit the ground running. Time is not on his side if the majority of supporters are already doubtful he was the right appointment by the chairman in the first place – plus patience will not be seen as a virtue by the faithful if he’s found wanting when attempting to make his vision a reality. It’s fair to say he’s an appointment that comes with baggage and in some ways it leaves him exposed to greater criticism than an unknown candidate would have faced. Has Steve Gibson possibly miscalculated in the same way he did with his ill-advised ‘Smash the League’ comment with Monk?
OK, perhaps at least Woodgate starts with low expectations from many on Teesside and being around the top six after ten games will be seen as something of a success. However, a bad start will be met with a lot more than ‘I told you so’ from the unimpressed on the terraces – plus has Woodgate got the temperament to handle the pressure and ride out the inevitable criticism that follows bad results. Indeed, with no track record it will also be important that the players will have belief that he can be trusted to achieve results. At least with a manager who has done it before they have the credit in the bank when making unpopular decisions or changes. It may be unfair but Woodgate will be required to start well and show he can mount a credible promotion challenge and this is always the risk in appointing an untried manager – and perhaps more so for one who divides opinion.
It will be great if the gamble pays off and confidence and enthusiasm of a new manager and his coaching team show they have what it takes. However, a bad start and the rabbit in headlights look as they struggle to work out whether to stick or twist will soon make for unpleasant viewing at pre-match press conferences. We saw previously how another inexperienced manager in Karanka became prickly and somewhat difficult when faced with the pressure of things not going to plan. There will be no hiding place for Woodgate now that he’s the number one – we will soon discover if the lessons the younger man has learnt will have made him stronger character or simply more fragile one who is easily wounded. Let’s hope Steve Gibson has made the right call!
Werder,
Nice one and very true. I’d have put my last post on the other page on here but you posted while it was a work in progress. Or in Boro terms a chaos in progress.
There’s nothing like a nice quiet, contemplative close season.
UTB,
John
Thanks John, sorry for posting a little too late but you can always repost it on this blog – I know the conversation for the last few days has been about the prospect of Woodgate being the next manager and that seems to have been firming up with every hour as new coaching staff get outed. I was left with having to make a call to jump to a new blog before the announcement was made and I’m unable to write anything as we hit 600-700 comments.
I’ve known woody since he was a young teenager who lived nearby, went to the same school as my sons and played for marton fc although in a different age group to my lads.
He’s had a few scrapes personally which have been well documented but Hey nobody’s perfect!
I hope he does succeed and that SG is not repeating THE SAME MISTAKES MADE PREVIOUSLY IN HIS MANAGERIAL APPOINTMENTS.
I sympathise with Redcar Reds comments and hope we can all enjoy what is after all entertainment and sport…………….
One thing I’m pleased about is that having moved from my former seating arrangements I can afford to miss the odd game if things aren’t going so well………
I can also upgrade if things are going swimmingly!
Thanks to Werder for the post and RR for his forthright views and passion for his and our club
OFB
Thanks OFB, I wouldn’t necessarily place too much emphasis on what somebody did in their early twenties – especially if under the influence. People change and calm down with age, so while I’m not up on the local gossip of what he may have got up to with in the local bars, I’m personally only really interested in the footballing reasons behind the appointment unless it was something particularly unsavoury.
OFB
I only know the JW I found when I worked for him and he was very respectful to me and all other tradesmen. He was at the time going through the court case we all know about and found him very nervous and scared, he was very sorry IMO for the trouble he caused. The last time I saw him it was at his fathers funeral as I was a workmate of his father and treated by him and his family with the same respect as close family members.
So I for one will give him a chance to provide us with a team to be proud to be called the BORO.
Bri
UTB
Borobrie
That’s right we all were young and did stupid things and he’s a family man and loves his kids now
Hopefully he is the right man for Boro
OFB
Thanks Werder. Good summary of the consensus I think.
It appears a step too far for some, with some valid reasons, but I’m willing to see what he’s got.
In some ways this is JW’s shot at redemption and, as Richard mentioned on the previous blog, I think he would be wise to address those concerns as best he can, as soon as he can.
Thanks Andy, I’m personally not convinced by the appointment and I’d agree with RR that the cobbling together of the coaching team looks a bit random and then expecting it to blend together quickly is a little optimistic. Having said that it would only be fair to see how Woodgate performs and start to judge whether it will work out after a minimum of half a season. Of course it’s possible a bad start and a struggling team may require earlier intervention if the club wish to avoid the unthinkable – hopefully there will be enough with the players and other staff to keep Boro in the promotion mix but it’s essentially a gamble.
It would be interesting to hear if promotion is the target this year. Of course the club will want it but I wonder if this is a longer term “plan”. Jokanovic would seem a much more obvious choice were promotion the main aim this season.
If JW’s task is to remodel the playing style and blood the youngsters, it will take 2-3 seasons I think. However, if we want to hang onto the likes of Fry, we’ll need to progress at a similar rate to him or he’ll be snapped up.
Tough times ahead I think and a test of nerve for SG.
Robbo, McClaren, Mogga, Aitor?
Not mistakes in my eyes. Never will be. Not if you sit down calmly and reflect on their reigns as a whole.
They’re all guilty of one important thing – not being the managerial saviours their strongest fans thought they were. It only makes being brought back down to earth that much harder. It was said that 2011-13 would have been better for Mogga if we hadn’t soared so high before Christmas.
Excellent post, Si. I am totally agreeing with you in there. Up the Boro !
Robbo at least brought his profile and pulling power, McClaren had the kudos of being Fergies assistant, Mogga had experience and Aitor was formerly assistant at Real Madrid under possibly the world’s highest profile manager. Woodgate has only been on the coaching staff of Pulis and hasn’t as yet been seriously tested.
Cannot see Woodies mate joining him, being in London means getting on tele talking about Football.
This is good, and pays well, and can lead to bigger and better things.
I would think that he wanted it to be known that he was in the frame, so that he might get a job in London in the future.
I do not think he was ever offered a place at Oxford, so maybe we have not missed a lot.
So the ball is round and will roll where it will, let the games commence.
Has it been announced yet or is it still all a work in progress that has deliberately or accidentally leaked out drip by drip and they can’t get the stopper back on the Genie bottle?
Has Round definitely signed up and if so as what, DOF?
Has anyone heard from Woodgate and in what capacity?
Is Keane joining as an assistant manager to somebody or not?
Has Leo said yes to presumably the Goal Keeping role?
Is Rosenior still coming as whatever he has reportedly been asked to come and do?
That’s the funny thing about having 4 weeks with no comment from MFC and then suddenly all these coaching staff all about to be announced being openly discussed in the local media has meant if it all falls through the club are left with just Woodgate and vacancies to fill. Though it does offer those mentioned a lot of leverage in their deals and Robbie Keane has really blown their cover by stating he’s been offered the role of assistant manager to Woody and then saying he’s not sure if he’ll take it.
I think the management team of Pulis was a bit like Dad’s Army. Not professionally but age wise. I have always trusted in youth, so I am OK if the head coach and his assistant are less than 40-year olds. Both Pulis’ assistants were in the seventies.
Up the Boro!
Assuming it will be confirmed by MFC at some point, I join the ranks of those who are underwhelmed at JW’s appointment. I would have thought, as RR mooted, that Curtis Fleming should have been given a chance but, clearly, he was not favoured by Pulis. AV seems to have been appointed JW’s PR man, again confirming RR’s forecast of how things would play out.
Having renewed as an “early bird”, I guess I’ll just have to go along with it but I have a nasty taste in my mouth.
What is hard to comprehend is that the only two managers that were known to be formally interviewed were Woodgate and Jokanovic – they are not even on the same page when it comes to identifying your potential next appointment. It doesn’t sound like a particularly logical process.
I do hope I am wrong but this whole set up stinks. As RR said it also makes my blood boil. SG has made one of the biggest mistakes in his tenure as chairman. The match experience will be so toxic that it could blow up most of Teesside. How can SG live with the fact 80% of Boro faithful are against this appointment. It is his arrogance that defies belief. He has treated the supporters like they are thick and unintelligent. This is the most serious situation the club has been in for a very long time. SG has to take the blame for this shambles. Most of the fans are in utter despair over this. I have never known anything like it. Hate to say this but the club are in dire straits .I am so angry and disgusted that our beloved MFC has dropped into the gutter.
I wish people would get real, are they expecting a squad of players who have failed the last three seasons,have gotten older to all of a sudden run away with the league?
Woodgate as obviously impressed the owner during interviews more than others, that could mean he understands the restrictions underway, and apparently a new long term phylosophy , other prospective candidates may be looking at today and their own resume.
We actually don’t really have all the facts right now, it could be we see departures ,replaced by youth which means mid table at best, we might see a mix of loanies ,
I see this as a probability , New younger coaches , building a young team, I would hope the older players would buy into the change and show leadership , but some will want to move .
Woodgate looks like he has a job on his hands , fans have the right to their opinion ,we do, but the negativity before he as sat down
I was against Monk under different circumstances, money was available to sign good players ,onto a team just relegated from the premiership, he for me hadn’t shown the experience to recruit or show results.
At that time someone like Big Sam would have been perfect.
Noooooooooooooo, this is a bad dream, it’s about as inspiring as the candidates for leader of the Tory party. I nearly didn’t renew my season tickets and part of me wishes I hadn’t. I know people will say give him a chance but was he the best we could do, maybe he was the only one we could afford.
The Derby fans and the vast majority, if not all, of the Derby players didn’t want Brian Clough to go after he handed in his resignation. But Sam Longson, regretful though he may have been, stuck to his guns.
So easy to think that Cloughie was hard done by. But Longson had his reasons.
Management’s not just about results or even the quality of football. It’s also about aligning your own personal goals with your boss towards a model which is believed to be sustainable – in statistics and personnel. And if you, and your achievements, keep coming across as more important than your boss and/or the club, you’ll rarely come out of it well.
Therein lies the reason why people wanted Aitor out the door around the Charlton farce regardless of what he achieved and was close to achieving. To paraphrase the words of one particularly irate fan and journalist at the time…
“He walked out… Why should he be allowed back? Middlesbrough are bigger than him… I wouldn’t welcome anyone back who walks out on us, no matter *who* you are.”
Then again, we can be selective about that rule. Juninho dashed off to the airport quite quickly and we welcomed him back with open arms. Twice. Downing tossed in a transfer request when Southgate really needed him… people seem to overlook that.
One rule for one, another for another? (The very question Brian McNally was asking of Boro in December 1996 when we didn’t turn up at Blackburn.)
Continued…
How the player or manager who “walks” or “goes” handles it is key.
Juninho got a big, teary-eyed, Hollywood-style heroic exit from coming so close yet so far in his bid to save our dream against the odds.
Merson? He’d just proclaimed his loyalty to Boro for life, but was out the door within a week.
Speaking of Juninho… Andrew Glover, please help me out here. I go back to a time from nearly a decade ago, when he was set to play a glamour friendly against PSV…
“Everyone remembers the tears at Elland Road but little gets said about him scampering before the open-top bus ride around town. He didn’t leave without love or respect and will still have plenty of Middlesbrough Football Club’s money in the bank now. (Juninho) isn’t owed anything from the Boro public. It’s time to stand the Samba band down. We’re relying on Teesside steel now to see us through.
“I recognise that this rant-and-a-half sounds personal. I don’t hate the Little Fella, I just wish a fragment of the adulation and attention could be bestowed on the players we should be concentrating on now…
“There was a point when we left all this over-romanticised guff to our friends up the A19. Oh how we used to laugh. Now we’ve gone full circle and joined them. No one player is bigger than the team or club…”
Especially when he can be sold for £12m after costing £5m
Ok, perhaps speaking out in defence of MFC a little, the “announcements” about Round, Leo etc implies that they are thinking at least about a coaching team, with experience, to assist their likely rookie manager. Sensible, and they can’t account for Boyhood Boro fan Robbie Keane breaking cover and announcing his offer.
(For those who don’t know that joke – Keane has claimed to be a “boyhood fan” of around 3-4 clubs he has signed for over the years).
If the rumoured team is Keane, Round, Leo then what do we have? Excellent goalkeeping coach and proud adopted Teessider, brilliant and experienced coach who has worked at the highest level and, AND, a proper attacker as coach (Keane), something we have complained about not having for a long time.
Granted, it’s a little like the crew of the Red Dwarf, with Woody as Lister, but Smeg it – it just might work!
Management by Committee, I can’t think what could possibly go wrong. Too many Chiefs etc……………………………
The Substitutions will be like an episode of Play your Cards right. A Committee best consists of three people, two of whom are absent.
The comments on drip drip drip have summed it up perfectly. Once we knew the backroom staff had been released with the exception of Woodgate then the writing was on the wall, it then left the club to assemble a cast of other occupants who would compliment/temper the appointment.
Never go back is a popular phrase to many yet MFC cant fail to return to pastures old. It would be a plus to get Leo back because he embodies what we fans want in our players and on the touchlines but has he accepted? Will Keane accept? Round is another jobs for the boys appointment as far as i can see, like SG’s contacts book only goes up to a certain point and he cant see beyond the been there, done that. When Southgate was appointed he had to inherit the current coaching set up including Round and that didnt last long so why return to him. I wouldnt be shocked if Keane turns us down and we have Agnew on speed dial.
Woodgate wouldnt be my first choice as mainly it isnt a fresh start. It has the same feel of when Agnew was tasked with changing tack yet he was part of the negative set up previously. That didnt work and i dont see it working any better when JW has no experience as the main man and being tasked with getting the maximum out of players that he has worked with already and which didnt produce much, if at all, improvement.
I remember months back when we commented that we should prepare ourselves for a Woodgate/Downing combo. OFB commented “Nooooooo”. I hoped you were right OFB but we are halfway there and you have to look after family right?
If Downing turns up as “Corner Coach” I better stock up on extra strength Tena for men to conceal me waters!
Head of recycling i hear.
Hello again. I’ve gone from pretty underwhelmed to quite excited now. Gibson seems to be trying to build a young, progressive team with lots of potential and an experienced head in Round.
It might work, it might not but it would be great to see a local lad succeed as Boro boss.
Good to see you back. And your opinions. Some think here that 80 % of fans are against an appoinment that has not yet been announced. I am pretty sure it is a loud 20 % who makes the noise at the moment and the rest are on the fence.
Let’s wait a Gazette poll AFTER the appoinment. Or seeing how many turn up at the Riverside. We are presuming too early now.
Up the Boro!
Welcome back Phil – though I think you missed nearly all of the Pulis era – lucky man 🙂
Yes, even I found it hard to motivate myself to defend what we were watching. But you wouldn’t be surprised I wasn’t as against TP as most and we weren’t far off. Not reaching the playoffs had to be classed as a failure though and no tears shed when he left.
Welcome back.
Round wasn’t mentioned in the press release
And that is the biggest problem in all of this.
We all know the club cannot be totally transparent and open as events unfold.
However to drip feed us snippets, that have now been rumbled as near untruths, through the lap dog that is the Gazette brings all this to shame.
Whatever the fans own thoughts on Woodgate, Mr Gibson and MFC have played him into a snooker. Maybe not the black but certainly one on the colours.
Like him or loath him, he will be starting at a disadvantage.
GHW,
True enough, but my point wasn’t related to the money. Rather the player being bigger than the club. The whole cult of personality thing.
My thoughts at the moment are that the Exmil Challenge 2020 will be about avoiding relegation rather than making the playoffs.
Come on BORO.
There is a plus to the whole “cult of personality” thing.
Keane took Sunderland up in his first season, Lampard almost did the same for Derby in his. My guess is that if the name is big enough, the players will believe, and if the results follow, everyone else will believe too.
…To a point. Which makes the end especially brutal.
I wasn’t trying to paint a black picture of woody just clarifying why a lot of people know him and he is really starting on the back foot with some supporters
I hope he succeeds and this blog is really quite restrained in its views of him as a future manager
OFB
It’s as most of us feared, a repetition of the Southgate appointment, worse in some respects as then Boro were an established Premier League club only to be relegated within 3 years but expected to bounce back straight away only to finish mid-table under Strachan. I think we’d be deluding ourselves if we expect anything different this season. I fear a mid-table finish is the best we can hope for, and another long period beckons as a Championship club or worse in the rest of my lifetime. Nevertheless I’ve been a fan of this club for over 70 years and will still support them in spirit till I expire no matter in which Division they play. Middlesbrough FC have a long proud existence, and that’s what we are striving to maintain.
Well said, Ken
I appear to have woken up to the new Woodgate era and have to admit that the degree of bile being spewed forth on him by our contributors has caught me by surprise.
Isn’t the whole history of Middlesbrough – and perhaps the personal story of a lot if people in this blog – one of pulling ourselves up from tough beginnings, making our way, making some bloody awful mistakes and finding a way through to some measure of success. During that journey people’s moral compass may well change and I, for one, respect someone who puts past errors behind them. I wouldn’t want my past errors to be held over me every day of my life.
I’m now waiting for Woodgate to front up to the press etc but, most importantly, the fans and address the two big issues
1. Who he is now as a person
2. Who he is now as a coach.
I thought that Lampard was a ‘name’ appointment but maybe he, like Steven Gerard and others show the way forward. I want to hear JWs football philosophy and how the others in th team will work together. One thing that people haven’t mentioned that much is that JW has been irking very closely with the kids coming through and, maybe more than someone like Jokanovic, is likely to give them a shot.
It feels like a risky choice and, to be honest, SG hasn’t always got things right in the past but I will support the club and would like nothing more than for JW and his team to lead Boro to success.
On that last point, maybe here’s a topic to get our teeth into rather than just using them for biting JWs leg. What is success for the coming season. Before we get out the pitchforks, what should we reasonably hope for. Play-offs, mid table, survival? I’m still looking at playoffs but then I’ve always been a glass half full person with regard to Boro.
UTB UTB
1. Rewiring the playing style
2. Bringing the youngsters through
3. Cutting the wage bill
4. Staying clear of the relegation battle
5. Keeping in touch with the playoff hopefuls?
Sounds an awful lot like the Mogga manifesto!
Nothing like giving a local lad the job and then tying one hand behind his back. History perhaps repeating.
Very true smoggyinexile.
I would guess all of us have made mistakes in the past, and some of us even done things we were ashamed of. I’m not a Bible pusher but a lot can be learnt from history and St. Paul was contrite in his letter to the Corinthians 1, Chapter 13, Verses 11 to 13 quote “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face; now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abides faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity”.
Stirring words of contrition. I don’t know if Jonathan Woodgate like St. Paul has put his past behind him, but maybe we should give him some slack.
A while back I made my feelings clear about the possibility of a Woodgate appointment. Now it’s reality, I can’t say I’m over the moon. As Werder says, this is a huge gamble at a crucial time for the club. However, he IS the new man. We have to get behind him and give him every chance to succeed. And maybe, with his new ‘experienced’ coaching team alongside him, he might do much better than many are predicting. Let’s all hope so. A shift to a more attacking style of football would be a positive starting point.
Success next season, Selwynoz? Yes, play-offs would be a very good achievement. We still have a decent squad, which presumably Woody will strengthen, but he undoubtedly faces a tough challenge with limited financial clout. I rather fear we may have to cope with a season or two of consolidation. We may need to lower our expectations for a while.
Yes, we have less money than for a while. But I like the idea we have a manager who knows the current squad and especially our kids. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Fry named as a captain now.
We might go back to the years when we had half of the team as local and mostly from academy. So top ten is the minimum I would expect, play-offs a dream.
But we have a good squad to built on. Imbalanced, but good. So it will be exciting to see the appointment and reasoning behind it.
Perhaps we hear the target and the way forward directly from Gibson today. I hope so.
Up the Boro!
Reading some of the Robbie Keane quotes this morning it sounds very doubtful if he’s going to accept the assistant manager’s role at Boro. He seems to have given a whole raft of reasons why this is not the job for him ranging from: he doesn’t want to leave his Ireland role, it may be too much to do both jobs, he doesn’t need the money, he’s got a settled young family in London, he’s still young and in no hurry to move into management.
Plus he added that he’s currently going to the spurs training ground any time he wants to learn how Pochettino interacts with people, how his training sessions are and how the assistant managers are. The only plus for the Boro job he’s mentioned is that he’ll be able to keep an eye on the Irish players in the Championship.
Although perhaps the most damning statement was “I’m 38, I’m young. Who gets a job at 38 realistically? You don’t really, it’s usually a lot older than that. I’m not desperate for a job, I don’t need a job and I’m enjoying what I am doing now. I want to learn as much as I can. I will know when the right time is for me to move on and to be the head coach or the manager.”
Who indeed gets such a job at 38 – he may have overlooked that Woody is of course only 39 so it may come across as a little insensitive towards the Boro hierarchy. I suspect they may regret making the offer as it seems Robbie just can’t stop talking about whatever comes into his head – discretion it appears is not his forte.
It also sounds if Leo is not overly keen to come back as just goalkeeping coach as he’s been working as a number two for the last couple of years and indeed under Karanka was unofficially his assistant. Maybe if Keane turns down Woodgate he’ll get elevated to a greater role but at the moment there is a danger that the appointment of the coaching team could well go a little pear shaped.
Werder
Don’t be surprised if Keane turns Boro down to see Steve Agnew appointed as assistant head coach.
The fact that I spent two hours talking to him last Saturday at my nieces wedding has nothing to do with my unfounded rumour or suggestion!
OFB
Agnew that is not Keane I talked to!
OFB
You probably wouldn’t have got a word in edgeways if it had been Keane 🙂
I’m beginning to wonder if perhaps Woody misunderstood Gibson when he was told to find an assistant who was keen…
Andy – I suspect if the goal this season is not to finish in the top six it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we aim low then we will finish low and then the risk is it will undermine confidence and support on the terraces. There are perhaps a dozen clubs or so who will be looking at the top six, those who don’t will be the ones that fail. Boro finished 7th so I can’t see how the aim should be to do worse – for me the whole point is to try to improve not get worse.
The club still have a decent budget and much will depend on if certain players can be sold for good money and then reinvest it wisely and pick up 3 or 4 good PL loans. If Woodgate is not capable of doing that then he’s the wrong man for the job and his vision will be nothing more than a mirage. We will lose our promising young players if the club’s ambition doesn’t match their ambition or indeed their ability.
Unfortunately, football is about success and long-term plans can’t be at the expense of short-term results and the club will struggle to hold onto or attract players who are looking for success.
I agree that the plan will be to improve – of course it will – but I’m not sure that it will be to do so this year with a minimum requirement to get into the playoff spots. Rather promotion within the next three years.
To cut costs, completely change the playing style, bring through youth AND finish higher than the previous season with a brand new coaching team is a very big ask and I fear setting JW up to fail.
SG perhaps needs to set, or perhaps manage, expectations here I think. I’ve already set mine to a season of mixed results as the changes bed in.
I’m not sure if the club has the luxury of regrouping away from the play-off challenge and still hanging on to their better younger players. We have been told Liverpool are keeping an eye on Fry, Watford were reportedly interested in Tav and I’m sure there will be plenty of takers for play-maker like Wing if he has another good season.
The truth is any PL club will blow Boro’s wage package out of the water if they show firm interest in any of their better performing young players – would any of them be prepared to turn down a PL club and wait a few year to see if Boro mount a promotion challenge? I doubt it and then it means Boro needing to replace them with equalling good performing players.
The aspiration of bringing through good young players and ultimately selling them on for a profit is possibly what every chairman would dream of – it may happen occasionally but other than with Ben Gibson, it’s not really happened at Boro much in the last ten years.
I think it would be a mistake to think the club can afford to think they can take time out to try a different approach – it has to also work now as managers who don’t get results usually don’t last long. You may be right that Woodgate has been given an impossible task, which is why perhaps there weren’t any other candidates willing to take on the job – including Tony Pulis who seemingly recommended both the model and the new manager.
A rethink for most of us on here, and a realignment of expectations is called for.
As you know every season I get out my spread sheet picking the suitable one for the results expected so I like our Ozzies idea of setting in stone our expectations as a blog and then by consesus we can all see if if Woody meets them.
So there are three quantifiable measures of success as far as I can see [KPIs for the youngsters]
Firsly goals scored – if we dont improve our scoring rate then Woody will be a failure.
Secondly provided scoring rate improves there is the points accumulation – goals scored and more points implies good attack and good defence.
Finally there are other teams in the league so if the first two are achieved and maintained against our peers then the league table will not lie!!!
How many goals scored do we expect for the first 12 games? Me – 24 and we are then moving.
How many points after 12 games? Me, I would expect a minimum of 20 points.
Where should we be after 12 games? Me I want to be in the top 4..
Now I can adjust the numbers to suit our collective view and then we will know if we are supposed to be happy or not. I have many reservations about Woody being in the chair but if after 12 games my targets are met then I will bite the bullet and things will be what they will be again.
So, any thoughts gentlemen? What would you like to see after 12 games?
I know this doesnt placate those of us who think that morally if we smash the league by appointing a head smasher [whether reformed or not,] we have sold our soul, but it should give them the opportunity to raise the bar a little. [Although Saltburn Blue may not be happy even if we were 36,36,01].
Although I agree that past sins can be forgiven there are limits, as I am sure no one would advocate a certain fallen winger be returned to the fold.
Food for thought as the tennis season nears – let me know and will compile an average expecation index…..
I will never forget Jonathan woodgate the man who thought it was funny to burn twenty pound notes in front of people’s faces while proclaiming how rich and successful he was (and that’s before getting into numerous other indiscretions!)…..our new manager. He’s one of our own, I couldn’t care less is klopp a scouser? Are pep guardiola and Alex fergusons mancs? An inexperienced manager, an egotistical, arrogant man, but don’t worry he’s one of our own. If I’d have known I’d never have bought my season tickets. An absolute shambles of an appointment. The chances of success….slim….the long term damage to Steve Gibsons image….irreparable!! Absolutely gutted.
Two good posts above from Werder, right on he button.
As for Keane, as I said previously why would you entertain him on a non committed part time basis. Now he appears to be shooting his mouth off without respect for his mate or MFC. No, no no to him, but also another blunder by Mr Gibson, possibly with Leo also if Werder has read things right.
Why haven’t MFC sorted things out first, rubber stamped and then announced. Now they and Mr Vickers could end up looking like numpties.
As for what I expect this season. Well higher than seventh if we keep our better players like Randolf, Britt and the core including the younger ones.
Anything else is failure for me. Other managers have managed on little money so that will not be accepted as an excuse for me from SG.
I am also very interested to here from Woodgate and his plans. I will then take it from there with him.
Sorry, I must must have missed the Boro announcement. I think they are still preparing the things and some info has leaked from a small family club. Up the Boro!
“Now they and Mr Vickers could end up looking like numpties.”
No change there then……
Hi friends, sorry for ranting last night, I had a few Greek wines. But come this morning I am still full off woe. As TM would say “ it is what it is “
I am bothered about the way we are being fed information but we want to know what is going on.
The problem is the beauty parade may end up being a bit of a mess, as mentioned above Robbie doesn’t look Kean, will Leo want to come over? is Agrenewed? Will Round be a square peg?
It is getting messy, Is the delay because they haven’t got the team in place?
I would have been happier if the appointment of Woodie had been made earlier and selling us the vision then put the backroom in place.
Ian
Big team strategy is to go for Messi
As you point out the Boro just get Messy!
OFB
I see that there is some speculation that Tomas Kalas may be available for purchase. He’s still only 26 and would be cover all across the defence. At what point do we put out a bit of money or is everything now down tt be basement shopping and academy graduates?
UTB
Maybe the delay in confirming Woodgate as manager is dependent on him putting together a reasonable coaching team but with Rosenior ruled out, Keane looks very doubtful, Round not sure and even Leo still thinking it over, things don’t seem to be progressing very well at the moment, unless Gibson throws money at them to get them on board. I wouldn’t be very shocked to hear that Downing has agreed to be player/assistant manager next.
Come on BORO.
No no no no exmil, now that would definitely tip me over the edge.
That’s nailed on I suspect.
You beat to that one Exmil. What else can go wrong?
Whatever your views on JW, his appointment and that if his team is becoming a shambles.
Once again MFC have not got their ducks in a line and are displaying a level of incompetence and lack of professionalism which beggars belief.
Why o why is it always us that seem incapable of getting it right! 😎😢
Because you follow just Boro. Think about the magpies up the road for a while and Gibson is not that bad after all.
So Boro is not a mess – at least not yet. Up the Boro!
Yeah that would be the Magpies with a car crash of an owner who were relegated the same season as us, held his nerve and players, went straight back up and are still competing in the Premiership. Remind me what did we do?
Jarkko
The magpies have a world class experienced manager a host of international players and are in the premo
Yes but they are in the EPL though Jarrko
Marton Country Club Ablaze now
End of a Charlie Amer Empire
OFB
Good old Boro, the backwards arse-about-face way to build a management team. It doesn’t give much hope about the way the ‘team’ will build a team.
Management, who needs it?
Meanwhile I live in hope that some good will come of it all but I do wonder who will be in charge of getting the bacon sarnies in the morning.
Can anyone at the club be happy about the way this is going? Desperate times. having the levels of optimism of most Boro supporters I’m wondering who is going to be the first key player to ask for a transfer.
UTB,
John
I mentioned a few weeks ago on here about Woody and if he was really serious about a path in Management then he needs to right his wrongs, show he has matured and start his career away from Teesside and more importantly his associations in the area. Proving himself at a lesser level and learning the ropes should be the first starting point.
Maybe he has been contrite in private and I have no doubt that if he was done for something in the Boro tonight it would be headlines but conversely if he helped a local charity or even an old lady across the road it wouldn’t make the news at all. However even at an an AA meeting the first step is to hold your hand up and accept your responsibility and accountability. I haven’t seen read or heard anything that makes me think he is a changed individual and any such behavioural amendment should have happened years ago let alone months if management was indeed a long term plan. That it hasn’t happened only leads me to be rather more circumspect.
It’s been embarrassingly clear that the Club with the connivance of the Gazette writers are well capable of a bit of marketing spin and bullshine albeit woefully poor at it. If what is to be played out in front of us today was the plan all along then the first step was to make Woody more appealing along with the bloke himself overtly taking matters into his own hands. The Twiiter poll which showed 70 to 80% of respondents were against his appointment (with from memory over 3,000 votes) should have been an alarm bell but clearly went unheard. That Poll should have been a deal breaker for Woody and his agent. Starting with that level of negativity in any role anywhere is ridiculous and ludicrous beyond belief.
Having Players and your Mates on board in a very privileged and sheltered clique maybe fine but it has created an entirely false set of circumstances. That SG has become a virtual recluse and that the Gazette having jettisoned one of their colleagues over a previous fall out were now too busy ingratiating themselves has meant a total detachment from what was being felt and heard. I don’t for a second think that AV and Co. didn’t know, they understandably just weren’t prepared to bite the hand that feeds them. Throw in the bizarre and startling fact that the Manager who has just departed was derided to a point where his position became untenable has apparently provided the new blueprint for all this and you seriously need to question the sanity. Put bluntly we are still not rid of Tony Pulis.
For years now its been clear that there are underperformances from areas of MFC which are not playing related and which have impacted and ultimately penalised a succession of Managers. Those areas seem to be untouchable, sacrosanct and clearly reside within some hidden temple at Hurworth. Its unhealthy in the extreme and repeatedly unproductive and any new Manager will be hamstrung before he starts because of these inadequacies. That they will fail and that those who worship at the high alter will be absolved of all blame is inevitable. Throw in a gullible inexperienced young Manager with no previous experience whose past lifestyle choices don’t provide for an optimistic outcome and you have the perfect storm once again.
Fast forward, 6, 12 or 18 months and the high priests will be drawing their swords to lop the head of the fool in the dugout (and in this case seemingly collective fools). How long will it take the Playing staff to realise that the entire thing is a shambolic mess and seeds are mentally sewn. Disagreements between the Coaching group will open and fester getting worse as the season progresses. We haven’t even come through the Summer yet and have any idea of who will still be here come August and who is coming in. Blooding youth in those circumstances is a baptism of fire. Out of necessity it worked in 86 but poor Woody isn’t fit to lace Bruce Rioch’s boots always assuming he knows how to tie his own shoelaces which judging by the cobbled together entourage is questionable.
Woody is a home bird and has always been dragged back to the gravitational pull of Teesside. If he is serious about management this is where he would probably want to end up not start out and be dismissed in a matter of months for failings most of which will not be of his doing but is too naïve to remotely realise as is the fate of most young managers starting off. The totally unprofessional launch of this new era illustrates the level of incompetence still at work. Nothing has been joined up and it hasn’t been thought through. The childish thought of lets get Leo back in a fanfare blew up in their faces as fans immediately saw through it in what was a very distasteful and blatant smoke screen act. That they felt it necessary to even contemplate such behaviour shows just how confident they are with this cunning plan.
Sky sports obviously were not on board with the farce and when they broke the bad news there was a scramble to put out some positive spin. The local rags tried desperately to highlight how brilliant its going to be except that the plan has so many holes in it its embarrassing. Leaving my own views and opinion of Woodgate as a person aside the exoskeletal structure that was to support the one previously known as Village hadn’t even been erected in fact most of the parts are still in the post forcing the rags to print some counter spin in desperation. It doesn’t look like Rosenior will leave Brighton and learning under Graham Potter to learn under Woody. The whole Robbie Keane thing has at least made me chuckle in all this and as for Leo and Steve Round well we will keep our breaths held. Whose on first, what’s on second?
Surely any plan should have been to put the new Manager in place and then announce the Backroom staff over the coming weeks the same as every other appointment in every other Club around the world in the entire history of the game? The amateurish cack-handed way it has dribbled out shows just how likely this devilishly cunning screw up will unfold. Hopefully when they do eventually launch the Woodgate era there will be somebody other than his minders stood beside him. No doubt AV will already have a draft template on how it all came apart at the seams and why.
Excellent, RR. Totally agree.
And, it should be noted, expressed without an ounce of bile. Just evidence-based joined-up thinking.
It’s been obvious that the club has been largely dysfunctional since the January of our relegation season. Instead of clearing out the stables, one of the head lads is now running the show. The problem with the “Give the lad a chance” line is that Woody has been giving it large around the clubs for so many years now that too many people have seen too many things to make this the popular local appointment that it might and should have been. And on social media people are talking about what they have seen. It makes for disquieting reading.
Every Tory would-be leader has been asked the Michael Gove question. Will any of the Gazette boys ask it of the new manager? I’m not holding my breath. The consequence would probably be lifelong expulsion. But given football’s truly horrendous record, particularly in its dealings with apprentices and youngsters, the character of the man in charge has to be beyond reproach. The whole tone and character of the club will be set by him. No one is looking for a saint. Just some evidence of honesty and integrity. Or is that too much to ask of the club we and the whole of Teesside want to get behind.
“…The club has been largely dysfunctional since the January of our relegation season.”
I’ve penned a mini Talking Point highlighting this Len. Will polish it off soon for your reading pleasure.
Let’s try to keep positive.
If Woody comes in, we will keep the kids for an extra season at least including Wing. Fry could even become a captain and Tavanier a regular starter.
If Round comes in we could finally have a Director of Football. So not starting from scratch every time we change a manager as before. This is the most important appointment for me as was written by BBC’s Steve Crossman recently.
If Robbie Keane agrees to come on Thursday, we could be sure to keep Randoph in goal.
So there is plenty of good thing emerging. But every appointment is a risk – but this looks like a better appointment than Southgate was at the time.
Up the Boro!
Except if Liverpool offer £15M for Fry he will be history and likewise if say Norwich or Villa put an offer in for Britt he will be gone and if we are scratching our heads at the shambles that’s currently unfolding what are the Players and their Agents thinking? Regardless if Keane comes or not Randolph will be off if he gets a better offer and by the sounds of things we need him to go get some cash into the Club. What realistic competition does he have for the Ireland Jersey?
True, RR. I think it’s true whoever the manager is, though. It’s the nature of being down the food chain, and especially when in belt-tightening mode.
Andy
Fully agree that those scenarios and complicating constraints would apply to whoever the new Manager is making things fraught with difficulties and challenges. All the more reason not to appoint a rookie when there are others out there like Adkins as just one recent example who have been there and done that.
Add that against that backdrop Woody will now be charged with creating an exciting new swashbuckling goal scoring era with Teesside DNA coursing through its steely veins and you have to laugh at the total absurdity of it.
I am proud that our Fry is attracting the attention of Liverpool. But I do not think he is ready to play at Anfield for a couple of years yet. Anyway, if he goes, the money would be much, much more than what we got for Ben. Can we lose something?
So why worry about the season 2020/21 now. Let’s enjoy the ride first for 2019/20 season.
Up the Boro!
I am going to put a bit of a positive spin because t is right to be balanced.
Gerrard and Lampard have done well in their rookie seasons so can Woodie. In some ways he has had more time amongst the back room staff than either of the others. The big but is whether he has the abilities to do the job.
I think it is a big ask and the machinations over the back room staff remind me of a Brian Rix farce.
Ian
Did Gerrard and Lampard have to have a group of Childminders erected around them when they took their on respective roles at Rangers and Derby or did they have their big boy pants on?
Did Gerrard and Lampard start off in their own backyard or have they moved away to prove themselves like grown men do, in strange towns and Cities in the possible hope that some day they may get to go back to manage the Club of their dreams?
I’m not having a pop at yourself just illustrating the differences between the scenarios. The most important one of all however is would Derby or Rangers have remotely thought of, considered or wanted Woody as Manager and how would their fans have reacted? The answer to that last question is probably the most damning on SG’s ridiculous and ill prepared plan, stitched up like a Turkey by the Dinosaur!
Maybe SG didn’t see the Pulis Out Banner at the Riverside? It appears the ghost of Pulis is still haunting the Riverside.
Redcar Red
I know you were not taking a pop and what you say is correct but I had to float the idea for discussion.
Let’s have a look at what you could have won……
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48620218
Just rub it in why don’t you! If only Britt hadn’t been subbed for Friend.
The question of whether or not a manager or player has to be One Of Our Own (Mogga, Woody, Downing) or a much-loved adopted son (Hignett, Dimi, Ayala, Adomah, indeed anyone who stood up to AK even if it involved chair-throwing) before he is fully embraced by the Boro public won’t go away.
As Paul has inspired me to imply, Brendan Rodgers and Jurgen Klopp weren’t, and aren’t, Scousers. Alex Ferguson and Pep Guardiola weren’t, and aren’t, Mancs. Yet their fan base are open enough to embrace their ways because… as we know in Ireland, success is success, it won’t always last, and you ought to embrace it and build on it why you can.
For all our old Basque buddy’s flaws – and he had many, that become even clearer on reflection – I applaud the music journalist who had the boldness to tweet that “(he) showed a glittering future to a club too timid and parochial to grasp it.”
Whether you agree with it or not, he’s onto something.
Only in the Boro world, it seems, could 85 and 89 points – our highest points tallies of the decade, by quite a way – be seen as “not good enough”. With a squad lacking in PL experience too.
I regret my immense frustration at the time, but maybe this goes part of the way to understanding it.
Mogga, and Bernie implied this, was just as guilty of sticking to his principles when he took West Brom into the top flight…
“Mogga’s West Brom side were a joy to watch when they won the Championship title and scored 100 goals… But the pundits were saying that they would struggle in the Premier League unless they curbed their attacking ways and found a Plan B… They were punished for trying to play attractive football all the time instead of trying to keep it tight at times and knocking it long and ended up going straight back down.”
Which brings me to the flipside of the argument, and why, no doubt, many turned against AK.
I do wonder if I asked Gibbo why he had a far from ecstatic look on his face when we got promoted in 2016, what he would say. I think he would cite Manny Cussins in The Damned United and say, “I hired Aitor to do this job because I believed him to be a talented coach, under the assumption that he would want the best for the club. For Middlesbrough. So why do I keep getting the feeling that this ‘triumph’ is all about him?”
All the comments are sensible and logical, made painful by the farce being played out before us.
Can we agree that most great managerial careers have a decent start and are backed up by a brilliant career as a player.
A certainty is the career of the Manchester City Central defender (not started yet, but watch this space)
Robbie Keane is reported to be sneaking over to the Spurs training ground to learn from their manager, hhhm!
The chances of him, or Rosienier, leaving London are slim to vanishing, his revealing the offer is simply getting some mileage out of it.
As he is not notable for his habit of discussing philosophy at the drop of a hat I would say it is a bullet dodged.
As ever it comes down to our Chairman, all this was foreseen by the bulk of the supporters, the shambolic choice of a manager, the complete ignoring of his last good choice (yes, yes, I know, it was AK, but the chance to turn the clock back to the day we fired him, would be a fine thing)
Now we are in yet another impossible, unfathomable, disaster zone, no, there is no way to enumerate the list of embarrassing, incredible, unthinkable, situations we are into, and it will get worse. Clueless? Yes, that about sums it up.
“Can we agree that most great managerial careers have a decent start and are backed up by a brilliant career as a player.”
Hardly! Which players who may have had a career as a brilliant career have made it as a top class manager? Guardiola is one, but I’m hard pressed to come up with many more.
Thierry Henry anyone?
It is an omen! Yorkshire are 95 for 7 against Surrey. Why wont it rain in Guildford?
Ian, it’s now raining in Guildford. Surely Yorkshire can’t lose another 13 wickets or 11 even if Duanne Olivier can’t bat. It’s also raining in Canterbury where Somerset are playing, so fingers crossed it continues to do so.
For those of you with a strong stomach here is AV’s take on our exciting new era.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jonathan-woodgates-biggest-job-delivering-16419062
The comments section below it (you will eventually find it) shows just how split the fanbase is. Even most of those who are saying give him a chance are openly admitting that he wouldn’t have been their choice. What an absolute mess of a situation to get into. I sincerely and genuinely hope that Leo doesn’t get involved with this. I love the bloke to bits but there is a time and a place and it definitely isn’t now.
I have mentioned on here a few times how in my early days a Director gave my senior Manager a piece of advice when he had a strike on his hands and asking for what to do and he was told very calmly down the phone “you don’t get yourself into those situations”. Its the best piece of Management advice I have ever heard although at the time I didn’t think so but its relevance knows no bounds and saved me from many a disaster.
I see that on Newsnow Scott Wilson from the Echo is reporting that Rosenior is “NOT” (in capital letters) coming.
Anyone know when the big announcement is being made about who the next Boro Manager is and the new look backroom staff? The ensuing Q&A will be interesting that’s for sure. Will it be invitational only and all questions pre screened with Woody being coached on how to answer them and what to say or will there be a media spokesperson taking the questions?
The apparent disaster looming just gets closer. As an aside, what did we employ Bevington for??
He likes to say Yes, that’s all that is required as we are seeing played out before our eyes.
Here’s the spin we were all anticipating:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stewart-downing-weighs-up-blackburn-16422947
Hayley on SkySports has said Rosenior is staying at Brighton – no new there- and that Woodgate would be appointed as manager in the next couple of days.
I wonder if there will be a new Tory leader before the our manager is announced?
Thanks for all your comments RR. Very informative and incisive. Great reading.
My own opinion is along the lines of a more open-minded, wait-and-see one. Every point you’ve made is a good one but the fact that “you’ll never know until you give him a chance” hangs in the air.
Pulis had history before he joined Boro, AK would never, ever live down the pre-Charlton public petulance in too many eyes.
In each case, however, I think many a fan thought, “So what? If he gets us into the Premier League, and keeps us there, who cares what he’s done in the past. Besides, football is full of people who have messed up in worse ways and still either succeeded, been appreciated, or both. They’re only human.”
That’s what you like to believe in the moment. That, so long as the trajectory of the club looks and feels like it’s on an upward spiral, and the results are mainly the right ones – because you can’t win them all anyway, you know! – it doesn’t matter. I know I’ve believed it.
BoroExile countered this view superbly at the time of Pu’s appointment. Where something I call EMPIRE – Ego, Money, Power, Image, Rule, Efficiency/Effectiveness – is satisfied in terms of the manager and his methods. Everyone is focused on pleasing the EMPIRE so long as the ends justify the means – why does it matter how you get there as long as you get there?
The reality within, which BoroExile inspired me to raise, is that ethics, and open-mindedness, *do* matter. The means are just as important as the ends. The EMPIRE losing its grip at least a little is most important for the long term. Even though he left six years ago United still can’t shake off The Ghost Of Fergie – that they rather hurriedly appointed one of his most loyal servants to rescue their season speaks volumes.
Apparently Woody spends a lot of his time in the Empire or alternatively in the Dickens Inn
OFB
If Woody gets appointed, most fans will undoubtedly be supportive but the problem is that he has no credit in his tank and there is always a minority who are vocally opposed from day 1. With a popular appointment and good financial support, the fundamentalist [Manager Name Out] brigade get ignored. With an appointment like Woodgate (who may actually prove to be a good manager) the Woody-outers are going to feel loud and influential from day one. Even if we get a good start I don’t think there’s a critical mass of fans ready to support Woodgate when it starts going wrong. And it will go wrong at some point because it’s the Championship.
Nearly every managerial appointment ends in failure: it’s just a matter of time. This one feels like it will end in tears a lot sooner than later.
Like I said about Mr Mowbray coming back….it will all end in tears, and unfortunately for Woodgate, there will, as deleriad said, very little leeway.
Whilst we know that sometimes the minority shout the loudest, as in politics, the overwhelming stance against Downing resigning under Woodgate is virtually 100% on the Gazette article. But then Mr Gibson likes him that is for sure.
If Hans Christian Andersen was still alive, perhaps he could write a sequel to ‘The King’s New Clothes’. It could apply to the Tory Party as well as the Boro.
Before we all wander off in sackcloth and ashes, let’s not forget that but for a catastrophic six game run we would have comfortably qualified for the playoffs. I’m not saying we would have been successful in them, but a top six finish would have to be considered as a success when looking back on the season.
Who’s to say with JW in charge and a change in playing style and personnel we couldn’t do just as well or even improve?
I agree that it’s a complete unknown. However, we can base our opinions on what we think is likely.
Two seasons ago we finished in the top 6, then we sold Gibson, Traore and Bamford. The top six was still possible but less likely.
Last season we finished just outside the top six. Now we have a lot of change, limited budget, and a new, inexperienced manager overseeing it. The likelihood is the change will take time and therefore that we will do worse.
If we see more progressive football, plenty of promising youngsters gaining experience, “enough” results and a feeling that we are moving forwards, I can get on board regardless of a tough season (or two) ahead.
GHW, I said as such earlier. Anything outside of the top six is failure. The caveat of course is that Woodgate is allowed to keep the nucleus of the squad.
Can’t agree with that in the circumstances. Too many change and the plan needs to be longer term. Had we hired Jokanovic, his backroom team, and supplied him with the funds then fair enough, but this is different.
I suspect the target is promotion within the next three seasons, with a much lower wage bill.
I only see signs of a vague aspiration coming from the club at the moment – a plan would be something that is carefully thought out with the right people recruited to execute it. I suspect we’ll only hear a few buzz words at Woodgate’s unveiling and lots of cliches that revolve around the words ‘vision’, ‘proud’ and ‘determined’. There will be little light and possibly talk of wanting to play exciting progressive football that the supporters want to see and an aim to bring through the youngsters. Probably little explanation of how he plans to change the training methods to achieve this or how recruitment intend to find the right quality of players. Anybody can have an aspiration – though few are actually capable of making and executing a plan to deliver it. Perhaps only Karanka in recent times was of that mindset.
MFC statement
https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/jonathan-woodgate-to-head-up-new-look-senior-coaching-team
>
There was huge interest in the coaching positions following the departure of Tony Pulis and in a robust process the club spoke with a number of potential candidates both in the UK and abroad.
It was during this procedure that it became clear that Jonathan was the outstanding candidate to head up the new structure, and his staff bring a wealth of experience and knowledge.
I note they said ‘coaching positions’ and not manager – must be a new definition of ‘wealth of experience’ too. Well to use a much over-used phrase – it is what it is…
GHW
You may well be correct that with JW in charge we could do just as well or even improve. Many of us would want him to do so but are not convinced as he does not have the track record at lower league level, let alone Championship level, to give us any comfort.
It should be borne in mind that if he equals last season’s performance then that is not good enough as we finished outside the top six.
For me, top six has never been really good enough if you are looking to gain promotion and stay in the PL as all too often the second and third promotion candidates don’t last very long.
There are always the exceptions like Brighton but more are likely to suffer the fates of Cardiff and Huddersfield. We need to win the league or be a close second if we are to build a core of players who are able to at least hold their own at the higher level.
Perhaps I am expecting too much but that’s how I feel and my views are very much based upon Jack’s promotion team.
At the end of the day it is what it is and only time will tell. The “typical Boro” in me says this won’t go well but what do I know, I wanted both Monk and Pulis and look where that got us! 😎
We can say, “but for a catastrophic six game run we’d have made the play-offs”… and that’s fair enough.
Except AK’s reign was loaded with “if onlys” that he didn’t get a fair break for.
Even during the much-criticised run of three wins in ten, we never conceded more than one in a game except at Blackburn.
The post-Rotherham explosion on social media which triggered the Charlton farce did follow a 1-0 defeat to a struggling team… in which we had fourteen shots to their seven, missed a one-on-one and a free header, had a free-kick hit the inside of the post, and probably made twice as many passes as they did. While they scored with their only shot on target.
Sometimes the margins really are that fine. It’s similarly not unreasonable to suggest that had Vossen’s shot gone in at Wembley we’d have established a pattern of control that the early confidence-boosting goal tended to give us.
Or, going back many more years, that it might have been so different for Afonso Alves had that thunderbolt against Mogga’s WBA at home early on gone in instead of hitting the underside of the bar.
I’ve lost count of the amount of attacking players, or Boro teams in general, who have had their confidence irreparably damaged by missing out on a guilt (sic) edged chance, which, had it been taken, “would have produced a very different outcome”.
Another example is Lukas Jutkiewicz at Barnsley. Not long after Boro had dominated possession and Juke missed the sitter that might have bought Mogga more time, the Tykes hit three in ten minutes.
It is what it is.
Fine margins. Although six defeats on the sin doesn’t feel particularly fine! That said, we could easily have taken points in some of those games.
“If only”, the two words in the English language that I’m sure we’ve all said at sometimes or other, not only about the Boro, but in life generally.
Gerard one clubman, Lampard basically on club man,
Woody will know how other top clubs do things ,he will also understand when players make moves, and their questions, so to me his experience’s overall looks a better resume than the other two.
Yet apparently they are geniuses.
Time will tell?
Gazette saying Downing has spoken to Tony Mowbray but is keeping his options open. One of them is that he is hoping for a new Boro deal. On yer bike son as far as possible from the Riverside.
Braveheart
The cynic in me says that the Woodgate/Downing partnership with Pulis as DOF is what SG planned a long time ago. Open revolt against Pulis has forced his hand on one front but he is determined to bring about the “local heroes” Management team.
What bewilders me most is why clear out all the backroom staff without a clue as to who is going to replace them. If they weren’t up to scratch, why does JW not fall into the same category? They were all part of the unsuccessful Pulis era. Just my opinion.
Belated welcome back to BP. We may be at opposite ends of the spectrum but your input has been missed.
Think you are bang on target Steely with that post especially about the DOF and Pulis. Now it looks like Rosenior isn’t joining and Keane hasn’t made his mind up yet and the rumours on Round aren’t great either. Maybe the longer its dragged on they have evaluated things and thinking do I want to be a part of that Circus?
Stewy as Assistant and Adam Johnson as U23’s Coach.
For a club that ought to move on towards a better future, we seem all too keen to try and recapture the past instead of learning from it.
Suddenly the idea of Ravanelli as manager isn’t so outlandish anymore.
Or even Nigel Pearson Si.
I’d have taken Hasselbaink or Doriva.
I would have taken Hassleback potatoes or Doritos but spuds are spuds.
Ken
Sorry about the Cas result, the Tykes cricket ended in a draw. I wont dwell on our management recruitment campaign.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/17704545.cut-him-and-he-bleeds-boro-red-jonathan-woodgates-lifelong-association-with-middlesbrough/
Possibly the funniest article I have ever read. Read the headline and then read on about his love for boro and then signing for Leeds. His love of the holgate and never being in there. Then when he finally comes back he leaves after six months for spurs then his return that was motivated by his love for boro….not!! Couldn’t believe what I was reading talk about a misleading headline.
I always wondered why he left so suddenly to go to London after only 6 months back then.
Paul,
Just the truth being massaged for suitability and fans.
UTB,
John
We’ve just got back from a family meal at a local hostelry and still no sign of the white smoke? Did someone forget to brief the buyer of said combustible fuel?
Will Boro have management team of any kind or will it be a mismanagement team?
This whole sorry saga is not filling me with hope. No Keane or Round and has Leo committed yet?
This you could not make up.
I still fancy Cheri Lunghi, as manager of course, and physio and trainer and Director of Football. Maybe recruitment too. No that would be a step too far. Scrub the recruitment responsibility.
Night, night everyone.
UTB,
John
Do I detect a soupcon of doubt in our recruitment teams ability there John?
Surely not after we have cleared out all the underperforming areas of the business in this exciting new vision of the future?
Redcar Red,
having cleared my head with a nights sleep and walked the terriers in the pouring rain the answer is. Passage of suitably tense music. Yes.
UTB,
John
While I have no time for Woody as a person and find his coming appointment quite shocking, we have still not heard from the man himself.
I don’t know if he is thin or thick skinned but if he speaks to people outside his circle and looks at other forums far more forthright than this one, then it is not unreasonable to ask whether he – as well as Keane and Round possibly – is having second thoughts. It is not, whatever he may feel about his suitability for the role, an ideal environment to step into.
For all the Gazette is shamelessly trumpeting Robbo, Aitor, Steve Mc etc as rookie bosses who have done well, being a new manager can be a thankless task.
There are many Boro heroes who have been appointed as Rookie bosses here and failed – Murdoch, Maddren, Southgate (Colin Todd also, less of a hero but a novice manager) – and what is driving Woody to want this job now, in this climate, is beyond me.
It can only be that there is no other job elsewhere – any new newcomer would not want a pillar of the Pulis regime and be rid of him and I don’t know how employable he is outside Teeside. And that is not the right credential for any new Boro boss.
Taking the top job at Darlington, Hartlepool, Billingham for example, would allow him to build a proper coaching reputation and would enhance his people and PR skills. It would allow also him the opportunity to show everyone the Woody that presumably Gibson sees.
It would be a win for everyone, including Woody, if he indeed is having second thoughts.
The fact is Richard if he took a job elsewhere chances are he would fail. His career as a manager would fizzle out and he would probably end up as a coach of an u23 team somewhere. The fact we have taken a punt on him being a top manager with no previous experience to draw this conclusion upon appears crazy to me. (and that’s before I get on to his off field antics and his appropriateness to be a role model for the club!)
Then to put on top of this info the fact that he is seriously tarnished by a previous regime, he is considered by many to be part of a broken system, and an unwanted appointment by the vast majority makes his appointment even more incredulous.
Why when you could have brought in someone like Danny Cowley whose had four promotions in five/six years as a manager, a manager who would be a fresh face and has plied his trade at the lowest level and been successful again and again would you choose Woodgate? The new model we are looking to work from is not from a base of wealth, we can’t pay mega bucks to sign the players we want, we need someone who can work on a tight budget and will utilise the strengths we already have.
If we have learnt anything from the championship it should be that it’s not about having the best individuals it’s about having a team that work hard for each other, a team which is greater than the sum of their parts . Sheffield united and Norwich are the prime examples of this. Having a good manager like Chris wilder who can get the most out of his players; players like Billy Sharpe, is absolutely paramount to them mounting a promotion push. If Sharp had played under Pulis he’d have struggled to get five goals and we’d have all being saying what a waste of money.
It’s all about having a talented manager, something we seem to know very little about.
Good post Paul. 😎
There is one rookie we haven’t mentioned who did really well…
Big Jack!!
He did Simon, very well, as did Robbo and Steve.
It was Boro heroes before they became manager that I was referring to, where sadly we’ve done less well.
That said, I’ve had enough of all this, I guess we all have.
It’s all a great shame but onwards and upwards.
Our list of Rookie Managers who have done well and those who have bombed (including Southgate but in fairness to him he was a stooge at the time) all have one thing in common. The ones that succeeded all came in from elsewhere and had been working with or under “best in class” at the time Coaches. The incestuous ones that came from within didn’t succeed but the spin doctors seem to be oblivious to what seems to me to be a glaringly obvious common denominator.
Normally when recruiting staff I do background and reference checks to make sure the applicant has the desired character suitable to the business.
A bit of light reading while we all wait for the white smoke.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/dec/16/sport.comment2
Apologies to those that have already read this, not sure SG or the recruitment team have.
Talking about smoke, SD to Blackburn looks like a smoke screen. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ink on his new Boro deal has been dry for a week.
I’m all for judging a man on what he is now and not what be was as a youth. We’ve all done foolish things when young ( although granted, not many do such reprehensible things when young ) that we would regret and even openly admit to having done with some shame.
Experience to one side, the problem with Woodgate for me is that there is nothing anywhere on public record, let alone recent public record, where he has come out and expressed any genuine contrition, regret or shame at his well publicised past. If he does so now, on taking this job, it will be be too little too late, as if the PR people will have advised him, rather than because he has felt the need to do so this last 10 years.
So. If it will be JW, I will be saddened, but will not let my opinions of one individual influence my support for the team. He would be, after all, only a transient figure, and the Boro will still be there when he will have gone. I only hope he will not tarnish the Boro with further disreputable behaviour.
It looks like we are nearly there and will be able to concentrate on the football.
The Gazette seem to be suggesting Keane has accepted the assistant role and returned to Rockliffe yesterday. Also Leo is set to have a first-team coaching role rather than being goalkeeping coach with former Boro keeper Danny Coyne set to take up that role. Though no mention of Steve Round, which may indicate he’s decided against whatever role he was offered.
Apparently it claims Woodgate hopes to play an enterprising brand of attacking football using hungrier younger players and graduates from the academy. Well that’s fine if those players are better than the other players in the squad but no manager would ever knowingly play anything other than his strongest team. Hungry is really just a bit of a cliche as it suggests older players don’t want it as much and are not trying as hard as they should.
All sounds a little bit like spin or marketing for what is essentially the need to cut costs now that parachute payments have ended with Boro no longer able to compete on transfers and wages. Either way, the key post will be who will be in charge of finding those good young players – that important position as yet seems to remain vacant. I wonder which academy kids are ready to step up beyond the now more established Fry, Wing and Tavernier – possibly Woods and Mahmutovic? Though that would mean them playing at the expense of who?
I am sure that Coyne was the number one target for GK Coach all along and the Leo thing was just to put other clubs off the scent to ensure Danny didn’t slip through our fingers. 😉
I liked Danny Coyne and have time for him as I do Leo. I’m not so enamoured or convinced by Keane and to me the only positive thing with him is that Big Mick has him in his ROI set up and like him or loathe him McCarthy isn’t stupid (which is a quite useful trait for a Manager).
On a positive it looks like Leo’s got a promotion without even pulling a trackie on!
It appears that the puff of white smoke went up last night but got a bit out of control and the idiots didn’t realise Charlie Amer is no longer the Boro Chairman.
Werder
Watched the national t.v. Interview with Keane yesterday.
Came across as one very embarrassed fellow.
Seemed to be frantically signalling that he had no intention of leaving his London perch plus t.v. Work, had not consulted his family, had a lot to think about, and was not going to give a decision until the weekend, so there.
I hear what you say about his visit to Rockcliff, but it was at variance with his embarrassment on screen.
Since Ayresome park days I have had no time for Mark Page. Another indivudual with no talent. Obviously another one of our own and part of the old pals act.
Here is an example of his crass comments made yesterday on Facebook in which Cleveland Fire Brigade posted they were recruiting. Page’s comment as follows …
“The interviews are between now and 10 pm at the Marton Hotel & Country Club.”
No doubt JW will be promote him to his band of clowns. I have had to refrain myself from not swearing on this post.
Werder
I read the article and it reminded me of the launch of the Southgate era.
We were going to be Arsenal Lite using our much vaunted academy prodiucts but it went wrong as we brought in the likes of Mido and Alves – remember all Strachan’s buys were two thirds of an Alves. It culminated in the truly awful summer transfer window which stripped central midfield and swapped Luke Young for Justin Hoyte.
I sincerely hope it works, there is no percentage in it going belly up.
Apparently this time Woody wants to emulate Leeds according to some reports.
Anyway its all official now that after weeks of exhaustive interviews of mmmm ahhhh errrrr ohhhh two candidates (possibly even less assuming that one of them did actually come up to Teesside) incredibly the best talent available is our very own Woodgate, Who’s have thought it!
Or in other words this has dragged on long enough and its all going pear shaped before we start so lets just run out there, go with what we have got, blag it, run back in and draw a line (or two) under it. With the back up presumably being if anyone sets their lip up just sort it with a few Teesside hand gestures.
No point in any further whingeing, let’s just let them get on with it and come back in August.
Hope you mean August 2020 and another fresh start. 13 years since the last insular appointment and history repeats itself. It is what it is.
Elsewhere, Sarri has left Chelsea, what odds Lampard moving to Chelsea?
1/16 with SkyBet!
I bet Derby fans are devastated to have missed out on Woodgate if Frank goes!
I am delighted with the appointment. It says head coach – not manager. So finally we will appoint a Director of Football and we do not need to start from zero with a new manager.
This is nice to hear: “In the last few years we’ve maybe gone away from doing that (giving yound players a chance), but I know every player from the Under-12s to Under-23s to first team level and I know what they can do.”
Also: “As well as Robbie Keane – I think that’s a fantastic appointment for the football club. You can look at the history, at the amount of times you’ve had a striker of his ilk in the backroom team, and it’s very rare that we’ve had it.” We need a specialist is attacking side of field.
“We want to get fans on the edge of their seat. We want as many fans back in the stadium as we can by playing attacking, exciting football with high pressure, pressing in different areas,” he said.
I just wonder why people as so skeptical if a local lad is appointed. Really?
Up the Boro!
Jarkko
The concerns can be split into two groups. First group is that he has proved absolutely nothing from a Coaching perspective and that its a huge and unnecessary risk to put him in charge of a Championship cub (those with a kinder disposition would also say unfair on him). They also don’t for a millisecond buy into the “best candidate” bullshine secreted from every orifice of the Gazette for the last few weeks.
The second group know how he behaved and what his behaviour resulted in more than once. An obnoxious arrogant bully who has left too many people with very unpleasant experiences because of him and his ilk. His “alleged” associates were particularly unpleasant individuals whom you would not want close friends and family to come across Maybe he has grown up and left those things behind him which is great but I haven’t heard any contrition or reflection whatsoever and that had to come before any such appointment.
For me I’m firmly in both groups and where he was born, raised or comes from has no bearing on it whatsoever.
Quite a different picture of Woody is painted by Anrew Davis at the Gazette:
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/verdict-jonathan-woodgate-man-whos-16417698
Of course one can say he is biased and possibly a friend of Woody. But I too have read earlier about young players talking about the help Woody has given to them.
I will support the club as well as Woody. Up the Boro!
Have anyone had a problem in seeing the first interview of Woody at mfc.co.uk?
I cannot see the video at the moment. UTB!
Was about to write: “have you” but meant to change to “Has anyone”. Sorry for typo again. UTB!
I have but not for the same reasons I suspect 🙂
a “problem” that is
Heard the one about the Englishman, Irishman and a guy who recommended De Penna ?
That’s not funny GT, actually sadly it really is!
That’s a lovely quote at the top of AV’s tweets or whatever they are.
‘We’ve got to have a philosophy at this club and I certainly believe in it’. Believe in what? The philosophy that doesn’t exist or the club?
The good news is everyone on DiasBoro believes in the club as do lots of other fans, hence the concern. Let’s hope it works.
When does SD make his triumphal return then?
I just hope it all works and Redcar Red keeps up with his reports too.
UTB,
John
Have emailed the club re the video problem. You can now watch a video which has been embedded in the article “WATCH Joanthon Woddgate’s first interview”.
The problem with the log in and main Video are under investigation. 😎
Thanks, KP. I wait as they work on it.
PS. Have you seen the new Boro away kit already? White shirt with a red and Navy blue band. And Navy blue shorts. Not bad.
Up the Boro!
I just watched on the MFC Facebook page (you don’t need to be a member of Facebook) – Note: It doesn’t really start until around the 3 minute 20 second mark so you need to move the slider and you also need to click on the unmute button
https://www.facebook.com/MFCofficial/videos/342367773115317?t=200s
Tweet from Ben Gibson:
“Couldn’t be happier.
Boro have got an absolute diamond as manager.
A top player, coach and more importantly, a brilliant person … good luck brother”
It all seems a bit Jekyll and Hyde and I don’t know what to believe about the man to be honest.
I remember a couple of guys from my school days who we total bastards how they behaved at school. I was afraid of these guys at the time. They had problems with teachers and other students. Perhaps they had problems at home and personally. They were bullish.
I have seen the two guys now after some 20 to 30 years. Both are very level headed and even quiet nowadays. Like teddy bears – a total change. One of them is even a bank manager nowadays.
So we really cannot judge Woody what he did with Bowyer at Leeds (I do not know other stories, sorry I am not always in the loop in here). He was living away from Boro and so on. And especially he is a grown-up man now – some lads become adults much later than others 🙂
So we get very different stories about Woody now – by Ben Gibson and Andrew Davis, for example. So let’s wait for some interviews with our younger players. Also I think Steve Gibson has interviewed other candidates and he thought Woody was best.
So come on, let’s get behind the club and enjoy the ride. Up the Boro!
PS: Woody is a Head Coach. Will we see a Director of Football appointed soon? This is more important than the name of the head coach, me thinks.
I suppose Ben is highly unlikely to contradict his Uncle but he didn’t have to say anything at all – no-one was waiting for his opinion. It certainly seems like he has some admirers from within the game, anyway.
Hi Jarkko. If only it was stories from a school boy past. Sadly, the issue with Woodgate is that he was an adult when most of the unpleasant news surrounding him occurred. I mentioned earlier and others have echoed it, but it is the absolute lack of any remorse, shame or acknowledgement of his past that denies us any real belief the alcohol-fueled demons are not still inside the man.
It would be interesting to hear the opinion of the unfortunate young man that Woodgate and his cohorts visciously assaulted those years ago. Maybe Woodgate had his punishment (which was lenient in any case), but as a very privileged someone in the public domain it is his absolute responsibility to take ownership of what he did and absolutely rebuke those actions and with some humility ask for the opportunity to demonstrate he has learned from the past and is a better man now. Without that, then I think everyone of us has the right to continue to judge him and it is everyone’s duty to do so.
Nobody can be all bad but I don’t know of any Boro players with such a chequered history. There were stories abound especially around the Robbo era of drunkenness, stupidity and foolhardiness but nothing of the type of thing that Woody has or hopefully “had in the past” been alleged to have got up to.
Young lads do enjoy a bit of high jinks and do some very silly things myself included but I have never been reduced to imparting physical harm on someone regardless of how drunk I was or how annoying they were and believe me there were times when I could have lovingly swung for someone. He does seem to have been unlucky or unfortunate on several occasions even down to selling a car with his private plate left on which was presumably sheer stupidity trying to be fair considering the later outcome. Innocent or not these things stick whether you are the President of the USA or a footballer, with the spotlight comes responsibility.
Merson had some issues as did Gazza who was a basket case and sadly still is. There were lurid stories at a certain restaurant in Redcar involving Robbo’s star players at the time which if true was shall we say conduct unbecoming. There always has been and always will be players whose behaviour is less than ideal on occasions and in certain circumstances as there is in any walk of life but only a few with the reputation that Woodgate has earned for himself.
Before I became a born again cynic I do recall a passage in a book which many others place far greater importance on than I about more joy in heaven over one sinner repenting than 99 righteous people (I often wonder who the other 98 are?) who don’t need to which is magnaminous depending upon one’s interpretation of what heaven is. Screwing up shouldn’t be the end of the world but humility and recognition about one’s errors goes a long way to repairing damaged reputations whether its with an individual loved one or a group of people.
Since the departure of Pulis we have seen a spin machine in overdrive to the point where I found it sickening and downright insulting to intelligence. Puerile, throwaway, headline catchphrases bandied around with aplomb in an effort to fool some of the people some of the time. If as it now seems likely the barefaced plan was always for it to be Woodgate then that amateurish and embarrassingly cringeworthy PR machine should have been in place 18 to 24 months previous in rebuilding an image.
The Gazette unfortunately does seem of late to have lost its own moral compass by indulging themselves in repeated stories about offenders and gangsters who caused a lot of pain for many honest decent people on Teesside. That glorification only panders to and feeds a culture which at best is unpleasant especially for those that have to live amongst it everyday with no hope of escape or respite as a new generation of feral scum attempts to emulate and even outdo the fame status of those gone before.
I am not for a millisecond suggesting that Woody’s misdemeanours comes remotely close to those individuals but I guess its hard to even notice that there may be an issue when the glorification of a certain element has been the local papers default on a quiet newsday. A quick walk around certain areas of Teesside whose names I won’t list as they get enough bad PR illustrates the behavioural impact on the youth of such conditioning. Blaming politicians and government is all fine and good but each one of us have a responsibility and not just when it suits an agenda. The societal normalising, acceptance and even heralding of such behaviour has reduced shock thresholds to the detriment of the area and continues to do so.
Perceptions of acceptability do change over generations and often for the better in terms of equal opportunities, gender and racism etc. but also for the worse. Institutions and individuals that carry a huge swell of influence over society have a burden of responsibility in terms of creating positive role models of what is right and what is wrong. I think a Football Club and a Local paper fall into that category.
Belatedly I hope that Woodgate now steps up to the mark and sets examples for all the right reasons and becomes the “bloke” that his mates all swear he is. For me that is of far greater importance than what unfolds at the Riverside. Perhaps the Club and the Gazette could assist him by taking the lead now they have this PR thing on a roll.
Well I’m happy, a good appointment in my opinion. Inexperience is an issue, but a coaching team combining youth and experience strikes a decent balance. Personally I think bringing Leo back is a master stroke. Just the man to start rebuilding the relationship between management and fans.
We’re clearly operating in a new financial reality now, so that combined with a new management team wanting (presumably) to play a more entertaining brand of football suggests to me a top six finish will be tough to achieve this coming season. Especially if there is a need to use more inexperienced academy players rather than spending transfer fees. But surely we all enjoy seeing academy players making a positive impact?
For me I’ll be content if we can thrive in the top ten this coming season. We may even do better if we can keep Britt.
Everyone that knows Woody speaks highly of him, hopefully the negative myths surrounding him will dissipate in time.
The Downing situation intrigues me, I suspect Stewie wants to stay on Teesside and that prospect seems more likely today providing he’s willing to accept a salary a championship club can afford.
I’ve struggled with my support for Boro these last few seasons, I’m feeling much more positive now. My son and I are looking forward to planning our visits to the Riverside and wider afield.
An absolute avalanche of news falling out of Middlesbrough FC today, I hope nothing important gets lost in the deluge. It’s seems an almost deliberate attempt to bury bad news.
But the new away shirt looks great, Chris!
The away shirt looks good but why have red in an away shirt, why not blue and black?
They could play in a teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini for me, as long as they are winning
I would draw the line at a borat mankini though
http://www.isthmian.co.uk/terrors-trio-head-for-the-championship-57336
“Tooting and Mitcham United’s bold move to back their next generation of stars is already paying off for three youngsters looking forward to life in the Championshipnext season.
Proud coaching staff and management are vowing to keep their production line of Terrors talent rolling after attacking midfielder Abraham Odoh, 18, (pictured above) secured a summer switch to Charlton Athletic and winger Isaiah Jones, 19, and right-wing back Samuel Folarin, 18, headed north to Middlesbrough.”
Hope it all works out but I am struggling to think of a managerial appointment in my lifetime that has been so poorley recieved and worry that anything less than a ” smash the league” start will end in tears.
Hope not though.
If the wheels do come off then who would take over?
The back room dont have a recognised “caretaker” and we can’t afford a real manager.
Woody has just got a mention on sky news.
Must be a quiet day.
As SG stated at the press conference, Boro aren’t short of cash, the restriction is driven by FFP rules.
Still depends basically how much Mr Gibson is prepared to put in to cover the losses.
How much is it over three years. 39mil or has it changed. Weder always knows these things
Yes as I understand it you are allowed losses of £39M over a three year period.
JW has made much in his press conference about his knowledge of and willingness to use the youth at his disposal. I hope he is true to his word and does not give a new contract to SD.😎
So SG has scoured the UK Europe and the World and decided JW is the best candidate. Words fail me.
Seemed like a joined-up approach in the press conference.. Naturally rehearsed with all the right soundbites but carried off well O thought.
I think there was a missed opportunity to address some concerns around JW’s appropriateness as a role model but perhaps that might have sounded defensive in what was overall a very positive message.
Just words of course. The real work against which he will ultimately be judged by the majority starts now.
I was surprisingly happy with the press conference, it was kept fairly low key and all the right noises were made. I’m not rushing out to buy a season ticket, but I’m fairly content with their impression of the future of the club.
A couple of decent signings to freshen up the squad and it could be a decent season. Hopefully we can hang on to the likes of Wing, Fry, Randolph and Assombalonga. If we get off to a good start the fans will support the team, but I’m not sure how forgiving they’ll be if it’s a poor start.
All in all they’ve set out a new blueprint for MFC, let’s put our doubts of the new manager to one side and get behind them.
Yes, a total missed opportunity to address the real concerns about JW’s past but not a surprise. No one at the club seems bothered about it and the EG won’t ask tricky questions in case they all get banned from the ground. Yet another opportunity missed to acknowledge the concerns of the fans and address them head on.
I’ve seen and heard (and not heard) enough now and that’s it for me. I think it is an appalling appointment for all the reasons so elegantly set out by RR and I will therefore no longer support the club I have followed for 62 years while JW is head coach.
Very sad day for me.
Boroexile
Sorry to read your last paragraph, and I do hope you will have a re-think.
Our club is bigger than one individual and much as I have been disappointed by some of the things I have learnt about JW this week (I left the area many years ago so have not been privy to some of the reported indiscretions) it’s about our team.
I will support them and criticise then as I see fit but let us all give them a chance before we cast them aside.
CoB 😎
Yes, quite impressive press conference. Also all the talk sounded impressive by Woody. He is happy with the title of head coach and see that requitment is not possible be done by just one person.
The mission looks the best I have heard since Bryan Robson. I hope they can excecute it, too. But only time will tell.
I will leave the other claims against Woody now and mostly skip the posts for the time being. It’s time to get united now and see how the kids and Woody will do.
Up the Boro!
Andy
Re your first paragraph I would hope so as they have had enough time to run mock interviews in preparation! 😎🤣
I just hope that SG has inserted a £5M buy out clause in JW’s contract just in case one of the big clubs come calling after his first season! 😎😂
One thing any manager starting in the job for the first time needs to put aside is the need for appreciation, to feel like he matters all the time. More fool me for indulging the cult heroes of the past. I’ve learned that if one indulges them, their bubble grows to the point where they deem themselves untouchable and thus expect the slightest setback to be ignored. Because they’re so few. Truthfully it is the defeats that are most revealing on the managerial rollercoaster – it’s often said that those draws, those losses, are what Mr. Manager is really about, and you just don’t notice them when the ride’s working. Hence: Players win matches, managers lose them, although that became less applicable in the noughties after Mourinho and Benitez made their philosophy priority.
Strangely I would have defended both at the time – does stifling the odd player matter if whatever works, works?
KP in Spain, I appreciate your thoughts in your mail above.
For me it is not about the team but more about the club as a whole and I am appalled that the management of the club believe that JW is a suitable person to be given a senior management job. I appreciate that others may have different views to mine but I am not prepared to put expediency above morality and so I will not continue my support.
It gives me absolutely no pleasure whatsoever to take this step but at least I will be able to console myself in that I have not compromised my moral principles.
Not compromising on principles is hugely admirable.
And also a great area for debate – because while many may indeed admire you for it, what about the perception of those who don’t?
Take Roy Keane’s first conversation with Martin O’Neill – it wasn’t exactly all sweetness and light.
MO’N: I think you should have played in the World Cup.
RK: …why?
MO’N: Well… you know…
RK: You weren’t there. You don’t know what went on.
MO’N: I just wanted to say that.
There’s just as many who lauded Keane for his winning mentality as those who wanted to tell him, please, be less intense. It is hardly reasonable to compare Ireland – Ireland, note – and their football association to the standards of Manchester United, one of the largest sporting empires in the world… why didn’t he just man up and deal with it.
Were he less intense, though… he wouldn’t have been half the player he was. Though it did damage him in management. He even admitted in 2002 that were he in charge of Ireland, no one would want to play for him.
By the end of his tenure at Sunderland, the team looked like they weren’t playing for him.
Many times in the past I have said I separate MFC and Boro. MFC are a corporate entity but Boro are the soul.
I may disagree with MFC but I will always support Boro. Whatever the machinations Boro come before MFC. I am grateful for what Gibbo has done for the club but I supported the team when Bill Harris played, my dad saw Mannion et al.
I will support the Boro through thin and thinner
Boroexile
It’s sad to see someone with 62 years of support dropping off the list purely on the basis of trusting their own judgement over that of a whole range of other people. Do you think that all those people are unaware of past failings and yet somehow they all see fit to either support JW or work with him.
I too was taken to my first game in the 1950s and am not blind enough to think that everyone associated with the club over that time was perfect. However, the club is bigger than that.
I was more than impressed by JWs demeanour in the different interviews and press conferences and look forward to him and his team building the next phase of MFC.
I assume that this is goodbye since this is a blog for Boro supporters and you’ve now struck yourself off that list.
UTB
Selwynoz
Boroexile like myself are trusting judgement on instances where the Police have been involved and even the Courts unless they are all liars? Does being a “Boro Supporter” now mean that you have to surrender your moral Passport to be a true fan? Giving someone a good hiding and drug use are a curse and a scourge on todays society and none more so than here on Teesside. Glamour rock star drug users doing so recreationally have absolutely zero idea of the misery and destitution it causes lower down the supply chain. The desperate measures and humiliation people are forced into are way beyond the worst nightmares of us very fortunate individuals on this board.
Play the ball and not the man has always been the motto on here. Have different views, debate them factually and emotively but whilst we do not have to agree on it such an appointment was always going to be controversial. Telling someone who has followed the club for 62 years that he is somehow a lesser fan is uncalled for.
Steve Gibson is the present custodian of MFC, one day like Charlie Amer he will be gone as will Woody and his predecessors before him but MFC hopefully (and thankfully to SG for his and others actions 33 years ago) will still be here. Not liking or agreeing with a Chairman, Manager or Club doesn’t make anyone any less of a supporter in fact after 62 years it makes the decision all the more heartfelt and painful because they are a supporter. Plenty stopped going because of TP including OFB on here if I recall correctly. Should OFB now be classified as no longer a fan or a True Supporter? Should my Match reports have only reported the near misses and not the poor performances or substitutions etc. ?
Not having, wanting or being able to afford a season ticket does not cease someone’s entitlement to still want the club to be successful. Like yourself moving away from the area for a better life does not automatically badge you as someone who wants Teesside to be run down and become desolate and become a non supporter. Are Ben Gibson or David Wheater any less of a supporter because they moved to the opposite side of the country turning their backs on their hometown team? Life changes and along with it events and circumstances but what doesn’t change so readily is what is in your heart.
Booing a Manager or stopping going because of tactics etc. equally does not make someone a non supporter. Cheering and ra ra ing a failed regime doesn’t make anyone a greater or lesser supporter. Support comes in many shapes, forms and guises. There are thousands of red plastic seats just waiting to be filled by present non supporters. If they suddenly jump on a bandwagon does that suddenly make them a better supporter than someone of 62 years standing?
History has left us many legacies of where people just stood by, done nothing and said nothing. Are Bolton fans or Coventry fans or even Newcastle fans wrong to protest at things they don’t agree with? Don’t confuse submissive tolerance as loyalty. It is much harder to stand up and go against the grain than to merely accept the status quo without qualification. Commemorative events last week on the beaches of Normandy proves that.
I am faced with exactly the same quandary as Boroexile but with only 48 years on my Boro clock. Right now its looking more likely that I will be joining him rather than getting on board struggling to support something which I believe whitewashes things which I am vehemently opposed to. The saddest thing in all this is that this debate should be about football and discussing whether the new Manager is too negative or has relegated teams or has an incredible trophy list behind him.
I warned weeks ago that the new manager has to unify the club and what his appointment has done is the exact opposite and in a far more serious way than TP or AK ever could. With what I now suspect was a degree of perverse delight the Chairman has decided to take this route and the way the Gazette has been sullied into submission leads me to that conclusion, I accept its only my opinion but it has served me well more often that not.
We now have an inexperienced coach surrounded with equal management inexperience and that should be enough for many to have doubts and to not be on board with, true supporter or not. As it is, the debate unfortunately isn’t about not renewing or early birding it is way more important and outside of the realms of mere Football. When supporters of 48 years and 62 years standing are more than just disappointed and underwhelmed merely dismissing 110 combined years of support should be ringing alarm bells.
I will go along with all that RR
RR
I have been like you, in two minds, if I should just give up on the Boro and settle down to; shopping, looking after grandchildren, listening to the radio and seeing the odd match on TV.
The truth is, I can’t live without the Boro ! These last few years have filled a void in my life after retirement and previously I’ve followed the Boro all over Europe and Cup Finals and relegation and Insolvency for over 53 years.
I love reading the blog and having input to it and I know your principles and thoughts regarding Woodgate and the agenda behind the Boro strategy of the new management organisation, but its like cutting off your nose to spite them isn’t it?
“I’ll show them I don’t like them I won’t go to see the Boro anymore!”
So who is getting hurt the most? You ? who has seen all the drab football for the past few years? or them ? because they still have a crowd and life long supporters following their team?
Its our club, yours, mine, and everybody on this blog it’s not Woodgate’s or Gibson’s its ours and ours alone.
Please just come to the Boro and watch for a month and see what it’s like. If you don’t like it then walk away……………………….
You know it makes sense!
Up the Boro
OFB
Selwynoz, it is not often we have differing thoughts, but here I have to disagree.. Boroexile has the right to voice his opinion. He hasso in a reasonable way.
What happened the last time we hired a former Leeds and England centre half who was a little rough around the edges, smoked like a raja , and spent half his time fishing ,?
I think we did OK, maybe history can repeat itself.
Although if I see Downing and Friend in the starting line up first game , I will be hounding JW like there’s no tomorrow.
COB
Having watched the Woodgate unveiling press conference a few times, it started more as a scripted presentation by Bausor, Bevington and Gibson – while that may sound like a firm of solicitors, they are clearly the men making the decisions. Indeed, it almost came across as a slightly nervous Dragon’s Den pitch who were keen not to hear an early “I’m out” – though it does sound like a few have been tempted.
What was also quite amazing was the introduction basically ripped apart the Tony Pulis era with the opening statement from Bevington that the club wanted to build a style of play that was clearly recognisable as Middlesbrough Football Club. Of course you could say that we had that under Pulis. However, the club have announced that what they really wanted all along was a fast attacking style of play – which begs the question at what point did nobody realise what style the Welshman was renowned for?
It was also declared that they will in the future only plan to recruit players that fit into the style of play that the team intends to play – though I’m surprised that was something that needed saying as surely this is basic common sense and possibly should be the first question on the list for the recruitment department. Nevertheless, this appeared to have been announced as some kind of ground-breaking revolutionary idea.
Anyway, we were now promised a new era of joined-up thinking at the club with all aspects focused on delivering the new model – from recruitment and coaching at all levels in the club. Interestingly, this was probably the only thing I recall being advocated by Pulis’s root and branch investigation of the club – though ironically (and thankfully) it will not be with his preferred style of football.
Whether the joined-up thinking has fully extended to the appointment of Woodgate will remain to be seen. For all the talk of wanting to play fast exciting attacking football, we should remember that Woodgate himself has not been honing his coaching skills in the last 18 months on perfecting that art. No, in case you have already forgotten, he was part of the Pulis era that struggled to score goals. So at this point in time it’s unclear if he has worked out how Boro will play in the much admired style of Liverpool or Manchester City – will he really be able to Pep up Boro? Let’s hope he’s been secretly studying the methods and working out a plan.
It was said by Bausor that Woodgate had a very clear philosophy of his style of play he wants to play and that’s fair enough. I also have a clear philosophy of the style of play I want to watch and it would be great to see it unfold. However, achieving such a style of play will require players capable of playing it and indeed coaches capable of teaching and implementing it.
Sadly there were no Dragons at the press conference to ask those difficult questions to see if what the club hierarchy were pitching was deliverable. The new coaching team is somewhat lacking in experience and what little they do have is not exactly heavy on coaching fast attacking football – unless I’ve misread the playing styles of messers Pulis, Karanka and McCarthy. We can only hope Keane has picked up some tips from Pochettino when he’s dropped into the Spurs training camp.
Woodgate himself seemed a little nervous, which is both understandable as it’s his first big job and he has little experience of being in front of the media. He has in fact been appointed head coach and not manager – something he seems to be focussed on as he began with what his aims were as a coach: “We want to recruit young players, fresh, vibrant players with a hunger and a desire to improve. That’s the most important thing for me, and me and my coaches can improve these players. Nowadays, you get coaches who think a 29-year-old player is finished, he can’t learn any more. Well, we’ll do that. We’ll be showing that you can improve these players.”
At least he didn’t say a 34-year old as many cynically await the news that Downing is to be brought on board. We don’t know what the coaching ability of Woodgate is but it seems he had the recommendation of Pulis and Gibson admires him too. Gibson side-stepped the experience issue and focussed more on his new team’s enthusiasm – though he added they would be supplemented by Bausor and Bevington, which may indicate who is going to be pulling the strings. Gibson summed it up perhaps with: “It feels right. I’ve got a hunch about this…” before adding “I hope”
I also have a hunch but I’m prepared to see what emerges from this new era – at least it should hopefully not be a a dull season on or off the pitch…
Just expanding on the desire by everyone at the press conference to seemingly move away from the Pulis style of football – Woodgate started it off by declaring that his style of football meant he “wanted to pass the ball” before reinforcing the shift in tactics with “I want to win games scoring goals. If you look at this league now, you go up by scoring goals. If you don’t, you won’t go up.” I don’t know if he mentioned this insight to Tony last season but it may have been something on his mind for some time.
Steve Gibson also seemed to follow on with that when he said: “This club isn’t risk averse – he isn’t risk averse with the way he sets up his team.” I suspect most wouldn’t have said that about Tony ‘you start the game with a point’ Pulis. Although, having initially claimed his new coaching team had a wealth of experience when he declared: “Look at his experience, and his, and his”, Gibson did somewhat concede that point by admitting to one questioner “That inexperience that you’ve just talked about, it is there. But we’ve got time, and we will be patient.”
Whether another Gibson’s comment was indirectly aimed at Pulis is not certain but it did feel like it fitted into the new narrative: “Well, there’s a lot of people with experience, you’ve got to have the ability to use it. A lot of people can have experience, and not have the ability to use it. Football is quite a basic game, but it becomes complex because we make it complex.” He may easily have sounded a bit like another famous son of the area in Brian Clough with that line. I wonder how he felt about Pulis standing on the touchline shouting micro-management instructions to his players for 90 minutes or more.
Woodgate also seemed to give a nod to the supporters frustration under Pulis with “We need to get more fans into the Riverside Stadium, that is without a doubt, but we need to play the football to get them in there, it’s simple. If we are playing attacking football, scoring goals week in week out I know this Boro crowd will come back, 100%.”
So while both Woodgate and Gibson may have admired Pulis the man, it seems they both didn’t care much for his footballing philosophy and are agreed that it’s not going to bring the club success in the modern game – if only they’d had that hunch before they hired him! Strangely, it does feel like a weight has been lifted off the club’s shoulders with his departure and those in charge are back to dreaming of an era of exciting football. It may not be that easy to create though…
The new concept is laudable and hopefully may prevent signings such as Saville, Flint and Braithwaite, outlays that will have caused the club much ongoing financial strife.
It is just talk though, as it only can be until the season has begun. Fingers crossed.
It is the process and people that stink. What seems a very calculated obfuscation around the new boss shows an outfit wholly dismissive of its support and paying customers. That it happened under Adrian Bevington is telling. As a former England communications chief he will have known the importance keeping the people who matter (everyone connected with the club) in the loop, but did not. They knew this was the only way to sneak JW in, and in doing so, will be fully aware of the wider swell of fan discontent. Dismissing the masses basically, because ‘they know better’ is an antithesis to the old Labour sticking together principle that areas such as the north-east have survived upon for years. For Gibson to treat his people like this is mind boggling.
Then the staff. All, I assume, has been said about JW and while Keane seems fine, we don’t know much about him. Finger crossed again.
Leo, I assume by the reaction he generates, is a good un. But he seems more talismanic than anything and I would think his input will be that of cheerleader than anything else. I hope, for his sake, it is a proper role.
The paradox for Boro fans against the appointment is wanting the club to develop and do well but wanting this managerial regime out as soon as possible. While I think Gibson should go as the architect of a despicable last month – and a very poor last decade in general – I accept the alternatives are wholly unknown.
The difficulty for the fans is that there is no check on the club, a weaselly and run of the mill local media just not doing its job.
By not getting JW to front up to his past at yesterday’s press conference, it allows him to escape public examination of where he is in 2019. It also means he will be carrying around that nagging doubt (or maybe not) that he may be pulled up on it which surely compromises his job. It would have done him a world of good to have got it out in the open and dealt with yesterday and that the club again hid is despicable.
What, for example, if another media outlet decides to interview the student battered by JW’s posse in Leeds on the day of the new season, or in the week leading up to Boo v Charlton or Leeds? It will derail the club, again.
The saddest part of all though is seeing fans such as Boro Exile deciding to call it a day based on this past month. He (or she, I don’t know Boro Exile) are the people who matter ultimately and to invoke such actions from them says everything about how the club views its people. All four men in that media call yesterday will have serious six and seven figure incomes and clearly with that comes a contempt for those who not have such standing. To alienate the Boro support so wantonly really is something else.
Good leaderships are built on togetherness, identity and improving the lot of others. It calls for a moral leadership. The great Boro managers – Jack, Bruce, Robbo (I really liked him) – were seen to represent the town and area as much the football club. It brought a pride.
You can’t always hide a poor past but it can be faced up to, and through deeds, overcome. That the club has been deliberately deceitful here and buried the JW issues says it all and smacks of guilt and the glib.
Even if we do smash the league this season, everything is wrong. Gibson (through his own good works and extraordinary generosity over decades) has a responsibility to the fans and Teesside and for this past month’s doings he should be ashamed. The trust is broken but now so is the liking. More than the summer of ’86, this is a new low.
I don’t know how any of them can sleep, I really don’t.
In the end Gibson, Bevington and Bausor are just making decisions on how to run a football club as they see best. I may disagree with some of those decisions and doubt their plan or logic but I’m not sure it’s of the magnitude that should prevent them from being able to sleep. OK, I’m not really up on the Woodgate gossip and really had only known about that episode with Bowyer from the distant past. He may not a person I’d particularly want to hang out with but that’s also true of many people I’ve worked with too.
I personally don’t identify myself through which people are representing the club I support but I know others do and find it difficult to accept someone they don’t like in charge. I’m probably only really interested in the football side of argument and whether it appears a good decision or not. I suspect it will not be easy for Woodgate to realise his ambition to play exciting pleasing football but I’m all for the idea and the ambition.
Anything else surrounding past misdemeanors is essentially just a sideshow for me and unless there are incidents that take place while he’s holding the head coach position I’m prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s planning to respect his position. From the stories told, he’s no doubt a complex character who maybe hasn’t always handled himself in the correct manner – but then again I’m not sure if everyone involved in football management have either or indeed quite few others in public life.
So let’s put it into perspective and I don’t necessarily think Stave Gibson should be laying awake at night for making decisions he believes are in the best interest of his club.
Thanks Werder,
I think the way the search has been handled from day one shows a deep knowledge that the Boro hierarchy know a JW appointment would be very unpopular hence all the smoke and mirrors.
I feel it is because they are so alienated from the fanbase that they can sleep, sadly.
I was at school when Jack was boss and in terms of playground cred, it was unsurpassable. Brilliant in fact. Bruce was known as God for a while remember and these are the type of people any club with strong community links should aim for. In areas such as the north-east a great manager is seen as representing the area and club, it matters a lot. It’s all part of the bond.
In light of not facing his past publicly – JW is now a public figure which he has not really been before – he is showing himself as little better then the younger version of himself. No one is angel growing up of course but most of us show a certain remorse and growing maturity. We are yet to see that publicly and we need to.
What if there is a young local Asian lad who has great promise and the Boro want to sign him? I can’t imagine his parents will be enthralled, he’ll go elsewhere and we’ll lose out.
What if another great prospect has a sister? What will those parents think about entrusting their son to an organisation headed by a man who has done nothing to refute such rumours as the posturing in bars and clubs etc? They may well be, and hopefully are, just rumours, but need addressed and put to bed.
It is so unbelievably amateurish, the stupidity of a club that thought it could cancel a fixture with almost no notice 20 years ago and get away with it. Little has changed.
Spot on, Werder. My thoughts exactly.
Apart from the incident with Bowyer many years ago I know little about Woodgate other than the football side. As such I will judge him on football matters but with others words in the back of my mind should he transgress whilst in charge.
I hope he recognises the responsibility he has been entrusted with and what that demands. He may well be remorseful over whatever incidents in the past actually happened but I think I’m reluctant to comment on rumours or even rumours of rumours. I wouldn’t have thought Steve Gibson would have considered him for the post if there was any evidence of either racism or being a risk to anyone’s sister. I think sometimes it’s better not to speculate on such matters if they are just extrapolating rumours. The problem with him addressing rumours is that it would only mean more people then hearing about them than would have previously have heard about them. It’s a bit like answering the loaded question ‘have you stopped beating your wife’ – it doesn’t put anything to bed.
Werder
You can add Arian Bevington to that deliberation as well. You would hope he was a safe pair of hands in dealing with issues. He was at the FA after all, hmmmm!
Over the years a bunker mentality seems to have developed at the club with an immature either for us or against us attitude. I would assume that its because of criticism that has been felt and indeed hurt which is understandable but whether you be a Politician, a Footballer, an Artist or a Singer there will be people that love your work and others that don’t. Hiding from it and bunkering down with your closest cohorts doesn’t fix things and nor does dealing with symptoms rather than causation.
Everything in life runs its course and sadly to me this looks very much like the sun setting on an empire rather than the dawning of any fresh new era. Marketing spin, soundbites and dreaming are a world apart from reality. Maybe the sun will shine again but it is very overcast at the moment. Its the hope that kills!
This is becoming tiresome now. A 21 yr old is involved in an altercation outside a nightclub almost 20 years ago. This is repeated outside most late night venues every weekend around the country.
Nobody here was there that night and therefore the only point of reference is how it was reported in the press at the time. It was a high profile case because of the racial overtones and the fact that several PL footballers were involved. The posting of Chinese whispers on here about alleged misdemeanours in Teesside hostelries does this blog no favours.
Some of the comments here are bordering on being sanctimonious to suit an opinion. As far as I’m aware Woodgate received a community services order. Ridiculing his supposed lack of intelligence is quite frankly petty. I’m not condoning his involvement in the incident for which he was found to be a guilty party, but to use it as a stick to beat the Chairman is just furthering agendas.
24 hours into the new regime and we have “agendas”, that takes some doing if true. I don’t see any agenda on here or elsewhere, just opinions some of which relate to more than just one night. This board is a sample of the wider audience for the club and that it already has fissures developing into cracks is exactly what I feared and warned against. After TP it was the last thing the club needed to risk, it was all totally completely and utterly predictable and avoidable. If it works then great but it is already starting off with an uphill struggle.
I kind of agree with you GHW, but like a few of us have intoned, it is not unreasonable to expect an individual who has grown and matured to take ownership of his past and rebuke that behaviour.
If he doesn’t, that will be disappointing to me, but I don’t have to like him to carry on supporting my team and he will be gone at some point sooner or later in any case.
A little humility and a new public apology for his past misdemeanour would go a long way to deflect a lot of very distracting and potentially damaging (to the team); scrutiny.
Powmill
As someone who has entered fully into this discussion, on much the same line as you.
Can I say that I do not agree that someone who has been through one of these, sportsmen misbehaving scenarios, in this case with bells on, and emerged out of it in one piece (just) should be made to relive it at regular intervals.
Our press are not noted for being reasonable or measured, and would love to rehash endlessly all the old tales, and there are plenty of them.
How about, for starters and at random, both in regard to club and area.
Lighted cigar stubbed in the eye of a youth team player(plus plenty of assault and battery(not on the same teammate)
Or, all out bar room fight, with broken glasses used as weapons, plus of course breaking up the marriage of a team mate.
Or, having a gang bang in hotel room with willing females.
And if you wish to see retribution dished out, how about six years for kissing an underage girl, plus being forbidden to follow your trade when you get out, hhhm! Not sure about that when murderers are given community sentences.
The way the news media is at the moment does anyone really think some of the scurrilous whispers on here wouldn’t have been splashed all over the tabloids?
GHW what has been discussed on here and elsewhere is already in the domain of the internet long before this week. The tabloids aren’t going to splash anything because its Boro and quite frankly nobody outside of Teesside is remotely interested
I’m not going to start posting links because that would be petty in the extreme and not to mention totally fruitless but feel free to dig around. Maybe like Donald Trump it is all fake news and maybe it is all just an unfortunate set of circumstances but its too many to ignore or hope will go away as things very rarely leave the internet.
A clever PR guru would have had an article about turning his life around and championing youth causes to steer them away from pitfalls etc. etc. and turned a negative into a huge positive. There are loads of previous examples of people turning their life around, it doesn’t take a genius. Getting the local Paper to indulge in such an exclusive wouldn’t have been difficult and indeed would probably have been picked up nationally by Trinity Mirror. That should have been done some time ago in preparation.
Aside from the well publicised court case, what else is he supposedly guilty of?
It’s on the Internet so it must be true. Do me a favour.
There is a lot of information on the internet, some of which is true and some of which is absolute exaggerated nonsense on that we can agree. I can’t however think of another ex player who I would have had this level of disdain towards.
Had it been Leadbitter or say Maddo just as two random examples I would have been equally underwhelmed on their suitability criteria but I would have been OK with giving them my 100% support with a clear conscience.
GHW
Like you, i do not see how events twenty years ago somehow place supporters in a position whereby they are no longer ‘on board’ with the club. Equally, I have no idea what all this talk means. Either people are supporters of the club, albeit with concerns that they are clearly free to voice as loud as they want, or they are somehow placing themselves above the club because they don’t like the new choice of Head Coach. None of the long explanations have helped me understand how withdrawing their support in any way helps the club or the debate around the way forward.
My comment about no longer posting seemed to me to be a logical point and I’m glad that it’s drawn some strong responses but maybe one of you can take time to explain from exactly what point of view you will be commenting this season. If JW is so debased that you can’t even support MFC any more because of his very presence what are you going to comment about any decisions that are taken or any outcomes. Aren’t they by definition fruit of a poisoned tree? Are you going to acknowledge positive steps? If so, what does your current stance mean. If this is playing the man, then call me guilty.
In the meantime, I’m happy to support the new regime but equally prepared to acknowledge that many of the comments coming from the club ring a bit hollow when the same group of Gibson, Bausor, Bevington and JW were busy following the negative mantras of Tony Pulis. My personal stance is simple. I support the Boro or I support nobody and thats not an option.
UTB
Selwynoz, if you don’t understand my position on the appointment of JW then that’s fine. I am sure that there are many others who feel the same as you and that’s up to them. I know my own mind and I will not support something that I believe is fundamentally wrong. It is as simple as that.
As for posting on this forum, you will no doubt be pleased to hear that this will be my last post until JW is no longer in a senior position at MFC. If Werder wants to remove me from the list of contributors that’s also fine and in the event that I may want to return at some point in in the future if the management at the club changes then I will reapply to join.
Please reconsider. If you don’t wish to support the club, then that’s fine, but all opinions are not only welcome but needed. Without healthy debate there is little point in blogs like this.
I’m not pleased to see you go. I’d much rather that we debate behind a common love of the club. There’s been a lot written overnight Oz time by some respected posters and I wonder whether any of this can change your mind.
Boroexile
I can appreciate your stance and principals but this blog is not only about the management team it is about everything at Middlesbrough Football Club.
We have great previews from Werder which take a theme and develop it to suit a particular game and which are a stand alone read without even discussing the appointments or thoughts of our new manager.
Si has thought provoking posts which are intelligent and promulgate discourse and conversation with fellow posters.
Ken Smith delves into the history books about former games and players and must invoke memories in everyone that has seen those games and players that we all loved
My own In2Views also I hope provide interesting snippets and thoughts from current coaches past players and other people who are well known and support our team.
So please don’t think that because we have a manager you don’t like, you have to leave the blog there are other points to read about I hope you therefore reconsider and stay in touch with your friends on this blog.
On another point I must also add that if Redcar Red has hung up his pad and pencil preparing his match reports I truly thank him for what has been a most onerous task these past two years and hope that when the season starts that he and you both reconsider your views.
OFB
I was posting a reply earlier today and just as I pressed ‘post comment’ it disappeared. What I was rambling on about was that it was lovely sunny morning, that’s a novelty in itself this week, and that on the walk with the two Jack Russells I must have looked like one of Monty Python’s Philosophers Eleven. Eyes to the ground, stroking my chin and amazingly the conclusion I came to was basically what that other Boro legend and philosopher said, ‘It is was it is’.
I may not be enamoured of the choice of the new leader but the concept of a democratic co-operative running the team is novel and hopefully it will stop some of those ludicrous purchases the club have made. Equally a change of tactics and attitude may get more out of some of the players, in fact we may even get their strong points and strengths identified so that being at Boro they can realise their potential rather than it being crippled and shackled it by square-pegging. Then a proper judgement can be made by fans and the new management structure alike.
I hope that the conveyor belt of talent can be realised, developed and given their chance rather than being kept out of the team and sent out on loan.
I also hope that the club really do hunt and scour the lower and non-leagues for talent and that Rockliffe and Boro become a place that they can see improvement and the personal realisation of their talent for themselves. A place that they want go to and improve to hopefully move on to greater things.
Also, a big also, I hope the days of Boro being a last payday for player are over.
I reckon we should all just get on with providing support although nothing is ever that straightforward on Teesside, after all we invented the caveat.
Anyway that’s a lot of ‘hopes’ and we all know what hope can do.
UTB,
John
John
“The concept of a democratic co-operative running the team is novel and hopefully it will stop some of those ludicrous purchases the club have made”.
That’s a fine ideal and one I would normally be reasonably open to but my problem with it is this; that co-operative consists of Gibson, Gill, Bausor, Bevington and presumably Woodgate. Where were they when we signed all those mediocre players for exorbitant sums of money and contracts? Why did they sign all those midfielders last season? Where all the mistakes Karanka’s and Pulis’s fault? Who signed Rhodes and who signed Downing?
I agree that there needs to be a change in philosophy but how can this honestly be effected when it is the exact same individuals whose past performances and recruitment policies has ensnared us in the Championship for all these years. I really do struggle to see how things are actually going to change at all but it does sound good.
Redcar Red,
I was trying to lighten things up a little but the trouble with the wind of change is that we don’t know which way the wind is blowing.
Really it’s a bit bit like modern Russian history, simply re-write it to suit the views of those in charge. Who employed Pulis and Strachan? We can talk ourselves round in circles, I just wish we could get on with the football and results. That’ll be the judge and jury.
Finally it’s down to those blokes who kick the ball buying into it.
The ideas probably sounded brilliant after some chateaux bottled Bordeaux!
UTB,
John
Well they said all the right things in the press conference. I still think that no matter how good a potential coach/manager Woody may turn out to be that this is too big a challenge for a first job. However, I really hope I’m wrong. Certainly, if they successfully manage to accomplish what they say they’re setting out to do then the future looks promising.
It may be that this is Gibson’s third reboot of the club. 1st under Robbo, then under Karanka. I hope so, It feels more like the Southgate appointment which was the beginning of the end of the Galacticos era.
That all said, I’m a lot more hopeful now than I was a week ago. I would still have preferred a more experienced head coach but, if a Boro lad makes a success of us in the next few years then that would be fantastic.
It makes me laugh the money some have spent to watch certain undesirables both playing for and against Boro , over the years cheering on many.
And now Woodgate is being held up as some kind of moral icon.
Throw him to the wolves they say.
You ought to really think about how you are judging..
I reserve the right of opinion.
Everyone reserves the right of opinion based on their individual life experiences and that’s what makes us all different.
What I can say is that I stomached but never cheered Marlon King. I begrudgingly accepted Gestede coming to the club for far lesser issues simply seeing it as distasteful and inappropriate at the time. On footballing ability alone, fortunately cheering Rudy never became an issue.
I’m not saying throw Woodgate to the wolves at all, I don’t think he should have been installed as Head Coach/Manager in the first place. I could stomach but not accept him as being on the payroll but am distinctly uncomfortable with him being a fit and proper person to manage the club. That is a position that I think should command respect but for me it has to be earned. Put simply I can’t relate to him being one of our own at all because I wouldn’t choose to be associated with him and the same would equally apply to John Terry and Joey Barton had they been appointed and a few others I can think of.
The only thing I would say to Boroexile is how sure is he that anything other than that incident with Lee Bowyer nearly 20 years ago is actually true. I spent the last 30 minutes Googling all the various Woodgate stories and couldn’t find a single reliable source to indicate any of them are based on an actual verifiable account. Most of the stories appear in various forums with the usual ‘if this is true’ or ‘I’ve heard that’.
There seem to be in fact more stories where he’s done good deeds or simply thrown his money around in bars to buy people drinks. I even read an article where he was commended for learning Spanish much quicker than other more famous English players when he moved to Madrid.
Most of the stories were based on speculation – including one that Newcastle had sold him to Real Madrid because he’d failed a FA drug test – he hadn’t and it was in fact a different player. Also the story of burning either a 20 pound note or even a 50 pound (depending on the amount of exaggeration) note seemed to based on an urban myth and that episode probably stemmed from a Bullingdon Club episode and seemingly nobody actually saw it happen.
He was also claimed to be using cocaine because apparently a z-list ex-girlfriend was supposedly heavily into it. Also he was alleged to be involved with a drug dealer because they were driving a car that he had sold three years earlier.
The list goes on and on but I gave up trying to find any verifiable story that amounted to anything approaching a serious offence other than that well-documented incident with Lee Bowyer.
OK, perhaps he has been giving it large (as some may say) in a few bars on Teesside – I personally don’t know but I guess that’s perhaps not particularly unusual for wealthy young footballers – if that were the case then clearly some people may resent that or frown upon it.
However, I could find nothing that points to Woodgate being involved with anything that was particularly worthy of condemnation than what probably happens with many other footballers with cash in their pocket and being out for having a big night out.
So unless there is some serious facts as yet unpublished we should probably concentrate on the merits of the football arguments about his appointment – there is enough to ponder on that front and while I await to be convinced that he was the right appointment, I’m going to give Woodgate a fair crack at showing what he is capable of. Surely this is what we are about on Diasboro – we play the ball not the man.
I also spent a fair amount of time looking on the net, I too couldn’t find anything other than the stuff you mention. In fact the burning of paper money has also been “attributed” to many other footballers, Ryan Giggs is the popular choice in my neck of the woods. This is why I have my current stance on JW.
If anyone can direct me to a source that is not from a football forum or gossip column I’ll happily take a look.
Make that three. I did my internet trawling but came up with nothing credible since 2001.
I honestly don’t remember any of this backlash when he signed as a player on either occasion. That Gareth Southgate, of all people, signed him tells a different story I think.
PS Werder – I’ve previously heard the story from Real Madrid players and associates that JW’s dedication to learning Spanish impressed them. It should be dismissed of course because the narrative is that JW isn’t very bright. Interesting that the “Village” story is more widely accepted. Why do we choose to see the worst in people?
Because it suits the narrative.
I’ve been reading these posts with a great deal of interest. It’s a long time since I’ve seen quite as much division on this Blog and it’s a shame.
I have no idea whether JW is going to be a success or not. I do remember that at the time of his much publicised misdemeanours in Leeds I was disgusted by his actions. If you’d said that one day he’d be MFC’s manager or head coach I’d have been dismayed.
Now, as time has passed, I’ve mellowed a bit. He was punished for what happened and our society is based on people serving their sentence and then being allowed to move on.
His rumoured actions since, in the hosteleries of Teesside, would make me unhappy and uncomfortable but, without more information, it’s impossible for me to judge.
I do, however, value the opinions of some regular posters on here and they seem dead against his appointment. I’ve tried to rack my brains to think of anyone who would be a straight no go for me as Boro’s Manager. Leaving out a lot of politicians past and present, I’m struggling with ex footballers who would be beyond the pale.
I’d rule out drug cheats, anyone whose been convicted of serious offences of a sexual or violent nature that required a custodial sentence and Joey Barton.
I don’t get to many games so I can’t really make a stand by not going. I live on the other side of the country and am a Boro fan in the Diasboro and in my heart, so I’ll give JW a chance, with an option to change my mind of new hard facts about his behaviour comes to light.
I’m not that bothered about promotion unless we suddenly become a team that can perform well in the EPL. Watching an attractive, popular team that excites the fans will do for me.
Senior players normally give tips to apprentices at Christmas etc, for cleaning boots and other chores,
Its known Woody was the most generous.
Werder
Since Spartak left there has been a depressing decrease in playing the man. The post through the back of the posters legs has disappeared.
Hey ho, I suppose it is progress but as one who suffered I still look behind me, according to Spartak I could be an apologist for Hitler. Sadly, AV considered it as banter but dont get me going on that.
As you all know as well as being a Boro fanatic I’m also a big Cas Tigers fan. Cas signed Zak Hardaker from Leeds Rhinos despite his reputation of his getting into all sorts of drunken brawls in Leeds and Pontefract. He was sent by the Rhinos on anger management courses and attended the Tony Adams alcoholic clinic. All to no avail as the club eventually washed their hands of him and he signed for Castleford, then eventually failed a drugs test on the eve of the Grand Final when Cas were to lose to Leeds in 2017. He was banned for 4 years but on appeal had the sentence reduced to 2 years and signed for Wigan Warriors.
Throughout this time he showed remorse but still continued to be in trouble with the police for his repetitive misdemeanours. He was at the time arguably the best fullback in both codes of Rugby, but Rugby League particularly in Australia is full of characters like him, and I wouldn’t have touched him or them with a bargepole, but still support Cas as a club and a team. Another case of supporting the club but not the player. It’s a shame though that it has to happen to my two favourite clubs.
There does seem to be a groundswell of support for Woodgate from former colleagues as to his ability to lift morale on the training ground, so perhaps that’s what we should be judging him on from now. I just wonder though what Anthony Vicker’s stance would have been if he had continued or been allowed to continue his Untypical Boro column.
Maybe he posts on here in disguise. All at the paper clearly read this blog
Selwynoz
Yes a lot of people read the blog and copy our ideas! I see another blog has started to do Interviews with former Boro players what a great thing to do, why didn’t we do that?
I do not think there has been a manager that Steve Gibson has know so well as a PERSON before a manager was appointed than JW. Only perhaps Southgate.
JW has worked at Boro both as a player and later as a coach.
So perhaps SG knows him better than anyone on this forum. So please give the lad a chance. It is starting to sound that some people have a mission other than supporting the club. Very sad.
I love Boro and the new youth policy. But who will be the Director of Football?
Up the Boro!
The Sun wrote about Woody yesterday:
He said: “Going to Real Madrid as a boy from Middlesbrough was unbelievable.
“I had a year there when I did a lot of thinking and I probably grew up there as a man. I was injured for a long period but you learn every day from the bigger players at that club.
“Zinedine Zidane, Ronaldo, Luis Figo, Raul, David Beckham, they were all humble guys. But they do things right, their standards were bang on and that’s what this club will get back to.”
Some lads grow up later than others. Also I think he learnt the Spanish language while there and worked as a scout for Liverpool in Spain before returning to Boro. Impressive.
Up the Boro!
It seems that the rank and file supporter were impressed by Jonathan Woodgate’s press announcements. I must admit I was too, but after all the rhetoric one wonders what input he had under Tony Pulis. He praises him as a man, but they seem poles apart in how football should be played. Fine words from Woodgate, he said all the right things to appease the majority of fans. Easy to talk of course, but can he walk the walk?
This forum is certainly split on that. I’m now sick of reading all the Gazette propaganda, but have an open mind on his ability to be a successful manager. At some time in the future he will be either sacked or be offered the managership of a bigger club than the Boro. That’s the merry-go-round of the game. I’m certainly not happy about his lack of remorse about his past misdemeanours, but am prepared to give him my support whilst he is Head Coach of our club. After all we all want Boro to be successful and I’d be content with a mid-table finish in the coming season as long as the football is more entertaining. However I’d hope and expect progress to be made in the succeeding seasons with promotion within 3 or 4 years, but only if Premier League football can be sustained for several years thereafter.
Despite now being 81 I also realise my positivity might be misplaced, but the history of Middlesbrough FC shows that Boro have spent more years as a top tier club than a second or third tier one. So isn’t it time that the Boro will be remembered as one of the former rather than one of the latter. But remember that oak trees grow from little acorns, so patience is required. Come on then, and give Woodgate and the Boro all your support. You know deep down it makes sense!
I think if you don’t know somebody personally or at least know someone who does, then it’s impossible to be certain whether there is any real substance to stories that regularly get quoted. Many people will often think there’s no smoke without fire and may feel there’s been enough stories around to believe that there’s something in them.
Though if Woodgate really was an unpleasant character, would he be popular in the dressing room, come recommended by Pulis, highly regarded by Steve Gibson or spoken well about by others involved in football. It’s fair to say the judgement of those who work closely with him is in contrast with many who look at him from the outside.
I suspect much of it does indeed stem from that conviction of affray and being sentenced to 100 hours of community service – incidentally, it’s probably worth pointing out that Lee Bowyer was actually cleared of any offence and walked free – though one of Woodgate’s friends received a six year jail sentence for GBH.
Reports of the trial referred to previous incidents of violent conduct by Woodgate but one was that he’d admitted to head-butting someone outside a shop when he was 14 and there was also a reference to an incident that I think Len had earlier mentioned, when he was arrested on suspicion of taking part in the beating of a student when he was 17. However, given that his community service sentence in the Sarfraz Najeib was based on it being a first offence, then the Police must have ultimately decided not pursued him in that earlier case.
Anyway, it’s unlikely that we’ll hear any definitive interview with Woodgate on such matters or from someone who who knows him well – though you never know if he does become a more nationally known figure someone will always be keen to go to the tabloids – but I think GHW said that if there was something major then it would have surely have found its way into the tabloid press by now.
In the end, we probably know he’s not going to be a Gareth Southgate type character but given the unveiling press conference was the first time I’ve probably heard Woodgate speak, I’ve absolutely no idea what kind of character he is – hopefully he’ll set a good example in the post of head coach.
Lurid rumours vs stories of generosity. I would suggest it’s time to put the Demonising/Beatification debate to bed.
Jonathan Woodgate is the new manager of MFC. Like all managers he will live or die based on results. It’s only fair he is given his chance and starts with a level playing field. Let him get on with it and look forward to the new season with a positive attitude. Surely his philosophy of giving youth its chance is in tune with the general view on this blog.
As in every new season the supporters will be anticipating a successful season. How that success is measured depends on realism. Let’s just see how it develops.
I agree that it’s probably time to start looking at the footballing side of what the appointment of Jonathan Woodgate will mean in the coming season and whether he will be able to deliver on the club’s aspiration to play attacking exciting football and bring through young players.
Although given the background around the Woodgate appointment had raised the issue of the suitability of his character, then I think it was reasonable to attempt to try and address some of the concerns and not pretend they don’t exist. And from what I’ve seen there isn’t enough substance in all the various stories doing the rounds to make it an issue that prevents me from accepting Woodgate as being head coach.
OK, he may not have been my preference but since I wasn’t consulted then that’s who the club have chosen and that’s not going to change unless it goes badly wrong – though hopefully it doesn’t and I’m certainly up for seeing a move to attacking football.
You weren’t consulted! Obviously an oversight.
Time we started to talk about which players should be retained and possible transfer targets. I would suggest Downing should be allowed to leave, but Assombalonga be kept at all costs. With regard to the young players attracting attention from the bigger clubs, I’m afraid that may be out of the clubs hands. Money talks, and that is relative to both the club and the players own financial aspirations.
Yes, weird that neither Werder nor RR were consulted. There is hope they will get more involved next time.
Football wise, I trust RR a lot. He knows a decent player and have an excellent eye for a match to evolve.
Let’s hope will we see match reports fro RR next season, too. OFB is already converted, let’s all join hime and hope we end up in play-offs in May.
Up the Boro !
I’d like to appeal to Boroexile to reconsider his decision on his participation here. His views, like everyone else’s should be heard so we can debate both sides of every argument. Hopefully we can also keep a bit of humour on here amidst some of the angst. One of the strong points of this blog.
As far as Assombalonga is concerned, I think if the club are offered anything close to the £15m they paid then they should take it. With two years left on his contract his value next summer will decline sharply unless he has a season of scoring something like 20-25 goals and not the 12-15 he’s managed in the last two seasons. He’s not for me had the appearance of a £15m player and that’s a lot of money for a club with limited resources. He could easily find himself on the bench if Boro sign a striker who misses fewer chances and I also think his control of the ball is lacking and doesn’t look like he could play in one of the wider forward roles and make assists. On his day can look good but doesn’t happen often enough to rely on.
I am with you 100% on that Werder. I am still not convinced that even with input from Robbie Keane that he will make much improvement on Britt’s performance.
If we can get something close to the figure you mention then to me it’s a no brainer and provided we use the funds wisely (make a change) then we should get a better return on our investment. Might even be able to tempt Paddy back! 😎🤣
With several loanees having left, and Downing plus one or two others due to leave as it stands, I don’t think we have a particularly big squad.
The only area of the squad I can see where we can sell without needing to replace is central midfield. Perhaps one – maybe even two – of Clayton, McNair, Howson and Saville could go to bring some funds in without hurting the team too much. Wing is the loss that hurt and can’t be allowed to happen.
Clayton is the one out-and-out holding midfielder there so I would look to retain him.
Much depends on the system(s) Woodgate intends to play. The talk of wingers is an indication that it isn’t wingbacks.
Werder
I suppose the question is which 10-15 goals a season striker can Boro buy for less than the £15m we realise from the sale of Britt’s. I imagine other clubs could find one for £10m, I wonder if our distinguished scouts could?
While recognising the validity of your argument, and for all Britt’s failings, if we could learn to play the ball to his feet while facing a goal ten yards in front of him with minimal thinking time, then we would have a player capable of 20 goals a season.
We;re not short of midfield players, centre halves or a goal keeper. A pair of full backs are a priority.
I agree, Chris about Britt Assombalonga. According to the Gazette, he is still the most profilic goalgetter in the division for the past five years. Including the Pulis years.
So I hope we will sell as few players as possible. One or two could go, and as you said we need a couple of fullbacks. And some wingers to add to Tavanier and co.
Up the Boro!
Well I wouldn’t really regard anyone who managed less than 12 goals as a main striker – though I would also take into account that Britt made no assists last season either so it’s goals or nothing. However, it’s fair to say Pulis didn’t exactly play to his strengths and he made only 56 shots on goal of which 28 were on target and he scored 14 – basically 25% of his shots ended up in the net, which is probably not a bad ratio. Anyway, he came 17th in the Championship goal scorers list – I doubt few of those cost over £15m though.
My point would be that if we can get most of our money back this summer it would be good business and in a year’s time his value will fall significantly as he enters the last year of his contract. The option next summer is either to extend his contract or see him leave for nothing – on that basis I would judge that banking around £15m this summer would be the sensible thing to do for a club that now needs to raise any transfer budget from sales. As KP said it’s a no-brainer.
As few NEW players as possible. Just adding a few for specific places and more youth like Tavanier. UTB!
Hi friends, changed my name from Braveheart to simply Malcolm.
Hello Simply
I think he should be called Simply Simon don’t you ?
Your are not married to a saint by the name of Margaret are you Simply Malcolm?
Pow mill, my partner is called Margaret !!
Scottish Royalty you are in my eyes from now on Malcolm.
Forget the simply bit lol
SG thinks he has a hunch about the new regime then quotes I hope. Bit like smashing the league.
As has been said before……it is what it is.
There have been some very good and at times passionate posts, all to be read and try and understand the other view.
I would however go along with GHW and say to Boroexile, please reconsider your stance on this matter. OK, you do not have to go the Riverside or where ever but your post is valued whatever the view or opinion. As one or two have said, JW will either be a success, for the good of the club and Teesside or fail and move on. As much as I have stated my position against his appointment, it is a done deal and I will go (hopefully) to the Riverside in August with an open mind. Let´s just hope the season gets off to a good start!!!
Assombalonga….perhaps an enigma that I have always supported. But as per Werder if somebody comes and offers close to 15mil for him then all well and good. I think Sheff Utd. were very lucky with McGoldrick and Sharp, Norwich the same with Pukki. I cannot believe they could replicate those goals in another season. So where do you find a 20 goal forward to replace Britt when we let him go? After all JW did say you have to score goals in the Championship to be successful.
It is the midfield that has failed us and possibly that can be blamed in some part on the system. We are going to need more pace, a lot more. Players that get to the by-line and cross the ball into the box. that is where most goals are scored, where Britt would score his 20 plus. So will it be attacking full backs and dispense with Shotton and George or Wingers and dispense with a couple of the midfield?
We do of course have a couple of wingers in Tav and Johnson, but are they good enough?
A lot will depend I assume on who we get rid of and who we can entice in. A difficult .task especially given the recruitment teams past performance. I wonder what JW thinks they are capable of?
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds in the next six weeks or so. Who goes and who joins. As long as the prodigal son does not come back, that would be a big mistake of the head coach’s part if he allowed that.
Werder
I agree, for £15m we lose a high earner and can replace his 15 goals a year, ideally with someone younger and quicker.
But how many Championship teams could afford £15m and pay his salary, and would want to?
I doubt we’d sell him for less than £5m, as we’d probably be unable to fund a replacement for that amount and it would presumably be a politically unpopular move within and outside the club, especially if it’s seen we’re gifting a rival a cut price deal.
Would I sell for £14m,13,12..? Almost certainly maybe. Anything less than that and we’d have to immediately have someone decent lined up as replacement, or it would be a stick to beat the new management structure with. And if we don’t get off to a flyer this season I suspect there are a few all to willing to start sharpening the pitchforks and lighting the torches.
Maybe we sell Britt for £10m and get a replacement in for £10m on a cheaper salary. If unspecified new bloke gets 15 goals then that could be considered a victory.
Chris
Fulham, Cardiff & Huddersfield have money to burn. 😎
Whilst realising that this is a Football forum, and principally a Boro forum at that, what a lot of other sports are happening at the moment and in the ensuing weeks especially for someone like me who is a sports addict. In Rugby League although I’m a Cas supporter the relegation fight is so intriguing with any one of 8 clubs in danger of the drop whilst St. Helens are on a different planet, the Manchester City of Super League.
The Cricket World Cup has thrown up some staggering scores, although I tend to just watch the final 10 overs of each innings as time doesn’t allow me to watch much more, although the weather has probably put the West Indies and Sri Lanka out of the equation.
With World Champion Tai Woffinden out injured for the next 6 weeks or so, it has thrown up an intriguing situation with Patrick Dudek and Leon Madson neck and neck in the World Championship standings but with Bartosz Zmarzlik only 4 points behind. Last night’s Czech Grand Prix was the most exciting so far this year with Janusz Kolodziej, a rookie, winning last night’s racing.
And finally Justin Rose only one stroke behind Gary Woodland in the US Open from Pebble Beach, California going into the final round. As they don’t tee off until 10.30 tonight with a finish likely to be about 3.30 am tomorrow morning I’m too exhausted to watch it live, so shall record it and watch it sometime tomorrow.
Wimbledon is one event I don’t follow, but is followed by the Open Golf Championship from Royal Portrush next month, the first time the Open has been played in Ireland since 1951 when the flamboyant Max Faulkner won it. I can only vaguely remember that year.
Finally of course we have the fixtures of the Championship to be announced later this week, always an event to look forward to for Boro fans, followed by the opening of the transfer market. Somewhere I hope to fit in the continuation of the history of Middlesbrough FC and the Steve McClaren years. Phew! I’m even more exhausted thinking about it, but I really love it, I really do, because I’m a sports fanatic. Sad really, ain’t it!
Could say, it keeps you out of trouble Ken!
GHW – I agree completely with your sentiments.
Personally I believe (at the risk of being controversial) that Teessiders hate to see ‘one of their own’ being successful, hence the vitriol aimed at Woody.
One poster on here when I suggested allegation insisted all the reports on Woody’s behaviour were fact, but other than the affray conviction there is no evidence.
Ian – your comment re Spartak is spot on, he did serious damage to this blog from which it hasn’t recovered.
Nigel
I’m my opinion the damage done by Spartak was minimal and I think the blog has recovered because we all stood together to defend the ones affected.
We never play the man and we encourage debate and if you ever chance to see other blogs then you will then find out how civilised this blog is.
The allegations against JW on this blog have been exactly that allegations. I don’t remember anyone accusing him of any misdemeanours other than those factually reported and stating those allegations were fact.
But then my memory is not what it was so all things are a bit hazy to me. Let’s jist enjoy what we have which is somewhat special
OFB
I’d agree OFB. I was the subject of some of Spartak’s comments and, frankly, wasn’t unhappy when he left our ranks but I don’t think he left any sort of negative legacy.
In the main, this Forum is a respectful place. I hope it’s going to stay that way.
KP
Indeed they do, but they may look at his goals per cost ratio and believe he was overpriced two years ago, and is now two years older and half a yard larger.
I wonder how JW views McNair and Saville. They were considered to be players with real potential and, particularly in Saville’s case plenty of goals, but were never really given the chance to play in a fast moving forward-thinking structure. If he can link up with Howson and Wing we suddenly have a more dynamic midfield in front of Clayton or McNair and some cover for injury. Pace out wide, either in-house or imported would then be the next stage in support of Assombalonga, Fletcher and others. The defence has centre backs aplenty and Shotton and Friend and the youngsters provide good cover but we do need a reserve keeper. I still don’t know why we let Ripley go.
Offloading, Braithwaite and Gestede and saying farewell to Downing would be wonderful and would probably create enough room in the salary and transfer structure.
We could be in a worse place.
UTB
If JW wants to play out from the back, he may see McNair as a centre back in a three. He, Ayala and particularly Fry should be comfortable enough on the ball I would have thought.
If he follows Southgate’s England blueprint from the World Cup then it would be Clayton (Henderson) and perhaps Wing and Tav (Ali and Lingard) in midfield though Tav could play also behind Assombalonga. I felt that Fletcher and Britt started to get something going at the back end of last season, though, so I’d probably prefer to see that continued.
To me, a back three and wingbacks remains our best option for the season ahead. If it’s a back four and wingers then we need two fullbacks and at least two wingers, plus goalkeeping backup. If it’s wingbacks then we only need wingbacks and the reserve keeper. The way Howson finished the season you could even argue that we only absolutely need a left wingback.
I think it also means that we could entertain bids for Flint and Saville, as well as Braithwaite and Gestede.
However, if we can afford to keep Flint and especially Saville, while still having the wriggle room to bring in the wingbacks, I would.
Braithwaite is the key departure.
Woodgate seemed to indicate he wants to play a high press and that obviously will require bodies up front – Liverpool under Klopp are the most famous exponents of the so-called ‘gegenpressing’ tactics and they tend to play 4-3-3. So that will require three mobile forwards to quickly close down defenders. Perhaps Tav will be one of them but I suspect Gestede won’t.
However, we’re talking about applying different methods and tactics on a squad of players so that they will instinctively press as a unit and that will require coaching them on when to press and how to press. My problem is that I don’t see any experience in the current three named coaching team of Woodgate, Keane and Leo who have implemented that system.
Steve Gibson said at the press conference that the club are still probably looking to appoint another couple of people to the coaching team – I would like to think in the new spirit of joined up thinking that these will be well versed in coaching the high press.
While Woodgate seemed to suggest that it’s possible to coach new ideas into any age of player, the reality is that many players often get used to playing a certain way and we have players in the squad that have let’s say been coached heavily to try and stop the opposition and keep hold of the ball. New blood with players who are used to the new preferred tactics is perhaps a short cut to imposing a new style. I’m not sure if all the more physical players that Pulis was inclined to favour are necessarily suited to what the new plan is supposed to be.
Much will depend on who can be moved on or possibly re-educated and perhaps the loan market will be important with the acquisition of some good young players from PL clubs who may have trained in the right tactical framework being targeted. I think for a side aiming for a faster style of football, the current squad lacks pace and it will also need players comfortable on the ball who can control and pass it quickly – that doesn’t sound like the strength of Britt for example.
OK, it’s apparently a three-year plan and Boro certainly don’t have the quality of players that Klopp can call on – but I’m minded to think that simply giving the bulk of players in the current squad new instructions will more likely turn into neither one thing or the other as players draw on their default mode in times of pressure and just end up sitting deep. I think changing the mentality of players is possibly a bigger ask than simply believing anyone can be coached to learn new tricks – assuming our coaches know how to best go about that task.
The gap between aspiration and reality will be the hardest to bridge and there will inevitably be some confusion in the transition – hopefully that won’t result in a bad start and it would be an insurance policy if Boro could find some potential match winners higher up the pitch rather than wait for Britt or Fletcher to become clinical and ruthless.
Fair points, Werder.
I suppose the crux of the matter is whether the current crop played the way they did under Pulis because it was natural, or whether they did because that’s what they were asked to do. I can imagine Howson, for example, being pretty good at the pressing side.
Britt’s an interesting one. I think it might be case of he’s the best we’ve got and I do have some confidence that with the right team and style around him, he can score goals. He does look better with a partner, though.
Yes in theory Howson could adapt but others may not – Britt can score goals but will he fit into the new system or does the system need to fit around him? He was almost a 1-in-2 striker in the mainly two injury-affected seasons at Forest but they appeared to be a side that scored a lot of goals and conceded even more as they finished in 14th and 21st.
Our midfielders will need to score more goals and for whatever reason Howson and Saville have not as yet brought that part of their game to Boro. I suspect Wing will be the midfield playmaker with two others either side of him – would McNair get a chance under Woodgate as he was supposed to also be a midfielder that could score. We seemed to have acquired quite a few expensive midfielders who score goals on paper in the last few years.
If we play the high press then the biggest culture shock for Britt will be having not just one but two team mates within forty yards.
Regardless of whether we play with full backs or wing backs, I believe we need to bring in one left sided and one right side player. The type will of course be down to JW, to suit the system he goes with.
I quite liked the three CB’s and two wing backs as for me it gives more leeway. However with two up front, that only leaves three in midfield and what we have now, Wing apart have not proven themselves to be good enough either in passing forward or scoring goals.
Norwich had Pukki who scored 30+9assists and five other players that scored between 8 and 10. Interestingly Rhodes scorned his goals at 123 minutes, Pukki at 128.
Sheffield Utd had Sharp on 24 then 15 and 6 followed by six players on 4’s and 3’s.
So who of our current players could get anywhere near those figures even with a season long change in system and formation? Probably none sadly.
I think we would struggle to sell (if JW wants to) and certainly at the fees paid, any of McNair, Saville, Flint or Howson.
We will struggle to get rid of Braithwaite, for a fee anyway, without taking a decent hit, same probably for Britt and then to lose Gestede MFC would probably need to buy out his remaining year. That would only leave Fletcher and although he has improved I doubt he would score the required goals.
I just hope we see some necessary movements out reasonably quickly and the first one Braithwaite. But I would not hold my breath on that one. I also think it would be better to move on one or two of the older players.
Think my post went missing…
I think Britt and Fletcher can get 30 goals between them in the right setup.
From midfield, I think Wing and Tav can get 10 to 15 whilst there could be another 10 to 15 from Saville, Howson and possibly McNair.
I think enough goals are in there but we desperately need pace from wide areas and a complete reboot of the movement and interplay throughout the side.
It won’t be easy.
Quite agree. If we can keep Britt, Wing, Tavernier, Fletcher, and possibly bring Braithwaite back into the fold, we’ll have a formidable attacking side.
What I like most about the new regime is that we don’t need to start from scratch. Just a few additions. And I will be interested to know if Woody wants Downing back – it could be difficult to drop him occasionally and tell that Tavenier is better now.
Up the Boro!
I’m not sure if they’ve as yet proved to be formidable on anything other than paper – there is potential but we’ve only seen it in glimpses and it may be risky to think they’ll all come good next season. Also bringing in a 34-year-old Downing also doesn’t fit into the medium-term strategy of wanting to bring through the youngsters and it would only block the chance of either bringing them off the bench or indeed giving them much needed pitch time. It would be a backward step and besides Downing has rarely offered either a goal threat or provided an assist in recent times – his forte seems to be ball retention.
I was thinking the same Jarkko.Under a new coaching regime it might be possible, to rehabilitate Braithwaite into the squad. On form he is a valuable asset to the team, but his relationship with the squad may be too far broken.
I also like the having three central defenders with two wingbacks, But I don’t think that constrains you to having only 1 up front.
Wingbacks provide width to the midfield Against some opposition and especially at home, this can enable you to play with 2 midfielders with the spare man now playing more offensively, closer in support of the striker,
That’s a great point Jarkko, unlike previous managers JW has a fairly competent Championship squad at his disposal.
Bringing Braithwaite back will prove difficult, he has started well then drifted out of contention especially when a move elsewhere doesn’t transpire.
I’d agree with that and Braithwaite doesn’t really fit into the profile of Woodgate wanting hungry players – he looked barely peckish in most of his time at Boro. Incidentally, I noticed Braithwaite shares a birthday with my nine-year old and I can certainly see some similarities in that it’s pretty hard work getting my son to do anything if he’s not interested in it – plus he tend stomp off in a huff if he doesn’t get his way!
Braithwaite has to go and the club would be wise to take a hit on the fee if necessary (which it will be), so long as his wages are gone.
I suspect we will take a hit and I think Pulis said he was on incredible wages and had let Steve Gibson down in his attitude so hard to see him being re-integrated. I suspect the spin on everyone starts with a clean slate won’t apply to him and that’s purely aimed at potential buyers who think we’ll give him away to get rid.
I would imagine the club can forget about getting anywhere near what they paid for him, it’s now become a matter of how much they can save by having him off the books.
Exactly right.
It’s also difficult to see how Gestede fits into the JW template, so I’m sure they are trying to move him on too (somehow).
I imagine if they gave him a free transfer he could negotiate a deal with another club that would suit him financially and also get him off our books.
Maybe GHW. We’d probably have to pay up his wages though, which may make it a bit pointless, unless we can negotiate more favourable terms for ourselves.
Not sure if it will be enough just to offer Rudy a free – he no doubt signed for Boro in the Premier League on a decent contract and he’ll be 31 in October and appears quite injury prone. It seems other than that golden two years at Blackburn when he partnered Jordan Rhodes and scored an amazing 34 goals in 66 appearances, he’s only once managed to reach six goals in a season. Boro may well regret turning down that £6m offer from Leeds two years ago as he hasn’t played much since and his 4 goals in two years will not have been worth the £10m we’ve probably both lost in resale and wages paid.
As I said previously I think it would need a free transfer and part payment of his final year.
Money down the drain, but so was buying him in the first place. Which dumbo sanctioned that out of desperation.
The problem with Gestede will be the transfer fee, how much will we have to pay someone to take him?
For the life of me I dont know why we bought him, same went for Guediwhatever his name.
AK wanted fast, pacey skilful players. You can have some sympathy for him having a hissy fit.
Hard to believe now but I actually saw some sort of logic in signing Gestede at the time.
AK was entrenched in his system of one up front and wanted that man to be a targetman type. He’d never used Stuani as such and therefore only had Negredo. The signing felt like an easy, available, back-up option that didn’t overextend us if we were relegated. In a way, the Bamford signing made less sense.
Safe to say, it has not worked out well.
At least we got our money back on Patrick and may even make a profit if he meets the transfer requirements.
The other lad from Watford, a 3mil right off. You just could not make it up.
I am also not sure what they have learned from all that. Certainly nothing last season with the over the odds payments for McNair and Saville. Who has left MFC so we all know that area of the club will change at least.
Yes. I think we all groaned somewhat at the time
Listened to Robbie Keane interview on MFC. I was quite impressed.
I see Lee Bowyer is leaving Charlton.
Surely not…….
Sounds like it would be a step down to become a coach at Boro – probably more likely to be Derby manager if Lampard goes to Chelsea.
Tongue in cheek Werder. I doubt that Derby would be interested, promotion from League One via the playoffs is not the greatest of endorsements.
I’d be surprised if Chelsea took Lampard as their new manager.
It sounds like Lampard to Chelsea is more or less a done deal – though it seems Derby are trying to play hard ball. I saw on a Derby forum that someone had done a mock-up of Pulis in a Rams baseball cap – which brought cries of Nooooo! Apparently the Derby supporters first choice is Jokanovic followed by Arteta and even Karanka – I suspect they’ll end with someone like Bowyer though.
BBC sport is saying Jakanovic has signed for a club in Qatar. I guess that will be a lot more money than MFC could afford.
Maybe he did not get a job in Europe, the UK included.
Or he was just after the money. No regrets from my side.
Up the Boro!
Why has no one on this blog even mentioned the most lifechanging fact coming from the change of regime.
The statement from jw that he will have nothing to do with buying and selling players, he is the coach, and that is all he wishes to be.
Thank god, we should have adopted that system many years ago.
He said that the idea of buying overpriced aged players was ludicrous, and the idea was young players with their careers in front of them.
I look forward to seeing Wing,Tav, and Fry, in the team from the off, with Wing in a free role behind the attack.
I saw that but was a bit confused. Does it mean that he will be consulted on people coming in but will then have no responsibility for doing the actual deal.
Selwinoz
I think he said something much more significant, and it amounted to saying the following.
” the idea of every manager who comes to the club dashing out and buying a clutch of players who take his fancy, followed closely by a repeat of the same when he gets the chop”
Still Woodgate speaking. “this is something that cannot go on, and I will have nothing to do with it, I am a coach, period”.
I think that was a fair summing up, and comments that we are at last entering the twenty first century seem to bear that out.
As has been endlessly screamed at on this blog, the endless outpouring of money and hope on outstandingly bad buys, all coming with an added handicap of unsalability, has effectively hobbled the club at every turn.
If you wanted to be critical (God forbid)you could say that this permanent overhang of unmovable players has caused the sale of a lot of players who should have been the last to go.
I suppose I am saying that we have been horribly managed for a long time.
Lets hope it has ended.
If Woody is not involved in recruitment then who is?
Will it be Gill / Bausor and the rest of the recruitment team, if so then business as usual. I dont see this as a step forward. Are we likely to see more of the Saville, McNair, Flint type fees/salaries paid.
Surely the “roots and branch” review would have included this department.
Why are they still employed?
Woodgate said he will be part of a recruitment committee comprising of Gibson, Bausor, Bevington and himself – it will be a collective decision and to be fair I think that’s been more or less the arrangement for some time. It’s probably been a long time since a manager was allowed to make the decisions on who came in – even Karanka was a head coach, though he sometimes ended up with the likes of Gestede and the lad from Watford when he wanted much higher profile targets.
Aitor wanted players who could pass, run and shoot, neither of those mentioned fitted the description.
That was my understanding of what would happen on the transfer front and something I felt had been happening for some time.
The more I reflect on what has been said the less I am convinced by it all as it appears to be a lot of PR spin.
Changing job titles, wanting to play more attacking football and using younger players is hardly rocket science and much of which we have been calling for on this blog for a long time.
I think part of this is to deflect awkward questions like why has all the money been wasted, who is responsible for over paying for average players? As a consequence are we now just an average Championship side who will struggle to compete with those sides recently relegated. Every time there has been a change of manager there has been a root and branch review at MFC but we don’t seem to learn or improve.
I want us to do well and I wish JW and his team well but I am at this stage far from convinced. 😎
Yes it’s mainly talk of attacking aspirations and philosophy at the moment and it sounds more like Boro have embarked on an experiment and are only now trying to work out the detail of how it will all be achieved. We’re probably in for a phase of trial and error as the new coaching team find out what works and what doesn’t. No doubt we we be told to be patient as lessons will be learned in what will probably soon be described as a steep learning curve in press conferences
JW aside – who obviously has no experience here yet – the recruitment team smacks of the same old, same old.
This is a set up of Gibson, Lamb/Bauser and ANother, a cohort that has brought us Saville, Flint, McNair, Gestede, Adlene G to mention just a few of the duffers over recent years.
What frustrates the fans more than anything with such deals is that we invariably feel at the time that they are a crock of ….
Saville might have been worth a punt but was a £400,000 player not many months before. Gestede was never a £6 million player and his reaction to the Boro crowd when scoring for Blackburn at the Riverside should have said much. He has never really been welcome here but that said, has done nothing to merit it.
Adlene G is a remarkable case. If Karanka didn’t want him surely he should have said no rather than let the club spend £3 million? A classic case of other people’s money. And anyway, shouldn’t the panel at the time have grasped he was a second choice and so up against it? We can all go on.
The best thing thing this recruitment team could do is, by and large, not to recruit. To use the Academy lads and players we have and outsource Braithwaite and his ilk for good. That will be its true value, a win for money and minds.
The thing about AG is that there was a player in there. I remember his brilliant goal for AKForest in their 1-1 draw with WBA, and in the same game he nearly scored from the half way line.
Bit like AKBoro themselves. The magic didn’t happen too much, but when it did it was to be savoured. I’ve already talked in detail about that wonderful team goal for Kike G at the Amex. RR rightly countered that by saying, you can count moments like that on one hand.
It is not something against AG, he was the wrong footballer at the wrong time.
I see Lee Bowyer has done a U-turn and signed a new deal with Charlton – apparently John Terry is the new favourite for Derby manager as Lampard heads for a meeting on Abramovich’s yacht.
Reading an old piece by Brendan Crossan on Boro’s new No. 2, Robbie Keane, and how he was judged as a player. It’s true enough to say that despite being Ireland’s record goalscorer he is loved neither as much as Jack Charlton or Jack Charlton’s Ireland team.
Brendan, help me out here…
“Maybe it’s an Irish thing, where we point out too readily a person’s faults while failing to celebrate the good things in them… (Robbie) Keane executed the hardest thing in football (scoring goals – Si) better than any other Irish striker before him. That’s why he scored 68 international goals… yet, Ireland’s record-breaking goalscorer has been a maligned figure for long stretches of his international career. He was the great unloved.
“Maybe he made a rod for his own back with the flashy white boots period, extravagant flicks and cocky ‘Tallaght-fornia’ attitude that made people ambivalent towards him.
“Maybe it’s an Irish thing: if you’re going to be flamboyant, you better be good. And if your performances dip, you’ll suffer the consequences. That’s the way Irish culture rolls. Be careful not to get above your station.
“…For some of his critics, he played to the gallery and over-cooked his patriotism at times. But he backed it up. When other players were pulling out of the ill-fated Carling Nations Cup in 2011, Keane turned up and publicly criticised those who were only too keen to send a sick-note… A lot was expected of him when he donned the green jersey. Perhaps too much at times. And he felt the brunt of it when things didn’t happen for the Republic.
“His critics were always a bit too eager to criticise aspects of his game and never celebrated enough the things he was good at. But all those things will fade through time and history will be generous to him. Rest assured, it won’t be long before we’ll be watching the Republic of Ireland in a big game and lamenting a missed chance – and yearning for a finisher like Robbie Keane.”
A lot of that sounds like it could apply to Wayne Rooney. Drawing that comparison, I wonder if part of the problem was that, having broken through so young, so much more was expected of them.
Or possibly very few ever live up to the media hype when they burst onto the scene and the same media often relish in knocking them down when they fail.
In response to Ian, above: Yes.
A confidence player at a time when we needed scrappers who would grab the team by the scruff of the neck. The class of 2016-17 were trying to harbour the kind of players, and, admittedly, managers, who could only really thrive at the top.
Classic narrative: build ’em up, knock ’em down.
I note that Platini is having a little chat with the police about the awarding of the world cup to Qatar.
Of the 24 members responsible for the awarding of the World Cup to Qatar, 18 are currently banned or under investigation.
Here’s what the BBC have wrote on the matter…
It is understood these will focus on a lunch Platini attended in Paris just days before that hugely controversial vote in 2010, with the then French president Nicolas Sarkozy at his official residence and the Qatari head of state.
It has long been suspected that the prospect of important bilateral trade deals between the two nations, and the subsequent Qatari takeover of Paris St-Germain may have been used as leverage to get Sarkozy’s support.
Platini has always denied that was why he changed his mind to vote for Qatar (rather than the US).
Given how much time has now passed since the 2010 vote, and how much has changed at Fifa, there seems no real prospect that this latest development could affect Qatar’s status as hosts, even if Platini is charged.
Fifa’s own 2014 internal investigation effectively cleared Qatar of corruption, and stripping it of the event at this stage could leave it open to legal action.
So whatever the outcome of Platini’s little chat it seems FIFA already cleared Qatar so it’s too late to do anything. Although that’s nothing compared to the the report published by the International Trades Union Confederation (ITUC) who have estimated 1200 workers have already died in construction projects since the World Cup was awarded to Qatar in 2010 – with around 800,000 migrant workers working for long hours in conditions of extreme heat.
And nothing changes…..the corruption just goes on and on and on.
Here in Spain there have been numerous cases, some here in the south. Years for anything to manifest itself and then very few going to gaol despite the eye watering amounts in fraud.
And that in a supposed modern European country. What chance in the Middle East were there is very little justice. All those workers abused of their fundamental rights and the Western World stood back and did nothing. Shameful in the extreme.
Yes the football community should hang their heads in shame that over 1000 people have died to produce their flagship event and as GHW has highlighted 75% of those involved in awarding the tournament are either banned or under investigation. I’m surprised the corporate sponsors would touch the event as it could easily blow up in their faces and ruin their brands.
I also remember seeing a documentary that showed how migrant workers had their passports confiscated when they arrived in Qatar and were almost working as slaves with no rights and little in the way of health and safety.
btw just as an aside I noticed your use of ‘gaol’ rather than ‘jail’ and remembered an article I’d read that went into the etymology of how we got that spelling but pronounced the word as in ‘jail’.
Those who still prefer the spelling gaol may be surprised to find that the Oxford English Dictionary now prefers jail. Apparently there is a logical reason behind this that stem from how it should in theory be pronounced differently than as we pronounce ‘jail’. The ‘G’ in theory should be pronounced as in ‘gale’ but everyone still pronounces the word as in the soft ‘G’ in ‘jail’.
The origin of the word also has two routes and both derived indirectly from the Latin ‘cavus’, which means a hollow and hence the French for ‘cage’ where we got it. Although there were two French variants, the old French ‘gaiole’ or ‘gayole’ and the northern French ‘jaiole’ or ‘jaile’ – in both cases they were pronounced with a hard ‘G’ rather than as in ‘jail’.
So by the Middle Ages, English possessed two forms of the word: either gayol, or even the somewhat amusing spelling ‘gayhole’ and jaiole or jaile. It was mainly thanks to legal texts that the spelling of ‘gaol’ persisted to the modern day – although most publications have now moved to the spelling ‘jail’ with the Guardian switching from using ‘gaol’ in the 1980s.
I guess growing up watch American westerns or even playing monopoly the word ‘gaol’ has always looked a bit odd and seemed like a typo of ‘goal’ – though both spellings are still perfectly legitimate.
It’s an unfortunate fact that large construction contracts involve the deaths of some workers. When building the Channel Tunnel it was factored in that it would probably result in the death of a worker for each mile of the project.
It is inevitable that deaths will occur in the Qatar World Cup construction projects, however it is not acceptable that workers should be deemed expendable and every effort should be made to minimise the figures. The paying of low wages usually results in higher figures. The pay and welfare of the low paid should come under close scrutiny.
I seem to recall Qatar Airways sponsoring Barca about that time. It was the first sponsor to appear on a Barca shirt.
A bit of a coincidence.
Some thoughts about Woody’s appointment in today’s Echo: https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/17713085.jonathan-woodgate-deserves-the-support-of-middlesbrough-fans/
I will support the local lad. Up the Boro!
Whilst I agree with the final statement in giving JW a fair chance now that it’s a done deal and hope he is successful, a lot of the article is personal opinion.
Werder thank you for that explanation. I cannot say why I particularly used gaol and not jail.
Possibly because in historical novels (which I like) the authors tend to use “gaol”.
Living as I do in the Middle East, I think the illusion created in the press, which singles out Qatar, is false and a manipulation of statistics.
Construction is a risky business wherever you are and regionally Qatar is no worse than the others. The Middle east has improved beyond recognition from the days of the 80’s, thanks to the many Brits who left their homes and footy teams, to suffer in the sun.
On all large construction projects you will find UK and North Eastern safety teams who apply the highest standards and methods to keeps sites as safe as possible. It is just that the vast number of manhours used skews the statistics and prompts the headlines we see.
A useful comparison is construction deaths vs deaths caused by bad driving ….both are avoidable but both still happen due to human nature.
I am a foreign worker toiling in the sun and have a clear conscience, and whilst there are the odd cases which make the headlines, safety in the Middle East has never been better. The world cup has provided well needed income for millions of poverty stricken people.
That’s it – rant over for today.
Glad to hear standards have improved over the years but I suspect safety records in Qatar still need to improve if they are to reach the levels that are acceptable by European standards.
As a quick comparison of construction workers in the UK versus migrant workers in Qatar. The Indian government claims it has 500,000 workers in Qatar of which they say annual deaths are normally around 250 – which equates to 50 deaths per 100,000 workers. Government statistics state that the UK death rate for construction workers is 1.4 deaths per 100,000.
In addition, the Guardian reported that a Nepal NGO had collated the 193 deaths by their migrant workers in Qatar in 2013, more than half had died from heart failure – which seems unusual for what were claimed to be predominantly young fit men. Amnesty International warned in a damning report that workers were enduring 12-hour days in sweltering conditions and living in squalid, overcrowded accommodation.
Migrant workers are held in camps and have to surrender their passports on arrival and must apply for a visa if they wish to leave the country. It should also be noted that Qatar is a very wealthy country and has the highest GDP per capita in the world. An investigation by journalists working for the Mirror found that of the 28,000 migrant workers building the new stadiums earned only $1.04 per hour for a standard 48 hour week and also spoke of long waits at the end of their shifts for the buses that returned them to their camps – plus they complained they were often not paid on time.
While I can’t speak for the middle east in general those are the reports on Qatar that I’ve read. So while the World Cup construction may indeed provide much needed income for poverty-stricken people – it does sound like they are being somewhat exploited.
Handing in your passport is a common practice, this is in order to get a permit to work in the various countries. Most of the countries require an exit/ entry visa.
Be careful of “ expose” reporting which is following agendas.. I , like Allan speak from personal experience as opposed to reading something on the internet.
OK, I admit I’ve got no personal experience of the construction industry in Qatar but should I then assume the whole World Cup migrant workers reporting is essentially fake news?
Though as you may know I usually just don’t read anything on the internet and assume it’s true – the reports came from mainstream journalists who had visited Qatar, plus published statistics from governments. Indeed, the Indian government figure of 250 deaths from 500,000 migrant workers in Qatar was actually aimed at downplaying the estimated death total of 1,200 – I just made the comparison with UK government statistics to see how they contrasted.
People reporting on such matters may indeed have an agenda, it could even be to expose what is happening in Qatar. Likewise, presumably Qatar also has an agenda in securing the World Cup by what appears to be means that has seen a lot of high-profile people being investigated. I also suspect your’s and Allan’s experience of the construction industry in the middle east is not the same as thousands of migrant workers living in camps – if they actually exist that is.
The connotation and use of the word “ camps” is of course used for a reason..
When you have large amounts of migrant workers they have to live somewhere. Accommodation is provided plus food. I myself have lived in large contractor complexes. Some are better than others, but most provide perfectly adequate living conditions. In fact some are exceptional with regard to amenities.
As for low wages, this is always relative to the wages on offer in workers home countries. What may sound low and exploitative to you is actually good for them. Why do you think they travel to work there in the first place?
Of course there are some unscrupulous employers, but I would say they are in the minority.
For sure I guess the $1 an hour must be competitive in comparison to their own country otherwise why would they come. Having had a quick check of the pay in India for instance, the rate in Qatar is probably at least double what a low skilled worker could expect to earn – plus 1 in 8 of the population are unemployed in Indian. Nepal is even poorer, which I visited a long time ago. Whether you would call that exploitation is perhaps down to your point of view – although, I presume there is less regulation of pay and conditions or any working time directives that prevents the same rates being paid in Europe to migrant workers.
Having re-read the article, I should add there was a subsequent clarification added that the 250 deaths per year of Indian migrant workers also include those that were non-work related – so it is unclear what the actual work-related death rate is. Therefore, I would concede that the often headline figure that there will be 4,000 construction deaths before the World Cup in 2022 has probably been quite over exaggerated. This often quoted figure I think therefore includes non-World Cup construction project deaths plus deaths unrelated to work activity. Clearly there is a problem as a Qatari official did concede construction deaths were higher than they should be and claimed the government were taking steps to reduce them.
Allan
I agree with you after many years working on Oil & Gas construction contracts the implementation of safe working practices and standards has never been more rigorously enforced
OFB
Just as an addition, I noted that Bahrain introduced in 2007 a ban on construction workers working between midday and 4pm in the summer months that has reduced the death rate by 50% – with a fine of 1,000 Bahraini Dinar (around $2,500) per worker seen working during these hours. So I would assume from that working in extreme heat is a cause of death and not aware that the same system operates in Qatar.
Qatar is more stringent than Bahrain in that respect – 3 months instead of 2 as in Bahrain. The heat is not the main cause, mainly falls from poor scaffolding, although scaffolding standards are improving all the time and collapse of shuttering which is poor engineering which has been minimized by the requirement of registered engineers to approve falsework on most projects
Interesting, didn’t expect to hear Qatar operated more stringent rules. Actually with regard to the scaffolding, I’ve got a vague recollection (possibly from something like a Newsnight feature) do they sometimes use bamboo scaffolding that’s essentially tied together? I seem to recall it would sometimes all collapse after they ‘borrowed’ pieces from other parts of the structure and then it becomes weakened – or am I thinking of some where else?
The Hartlepool Mail has published a Championship League Table of what might have been if only goals from English born players counted. Seriously! Who investigates this sort of irrelevant rubbish? Again also the use of the words ‘if only’.
Bernie Slaven amongst others has welcomed Jonathan Woodgate’s intention to adopt a more attacking style especially from midfield. However once Boro buy midfielders their scoring records tend to decline. The following are examples of that:-
Nicky Bailey 25 goals in 89 matches for Charlton, but only 4 in 99 matches for Boro.
Adam Clayton 11 goals in 85 matches for Huddersfield, but only 1 in 182 matches for Boro.
Jonny Howson 23 goals in 185 matches for Leeds and 22 goals in 176 matches for Norwich, but only 4 goals in 85 matches for Boro.
Admittedly Boro have converted them into a more defensive role, but for what purpose? Are the latter two now likely to become 8 to 10 goalscorers next season or are they now too stereotyped as defensive players?
Boro’s record of buying goalscoring strikers isn’t much better:-
Noel Whelan scored 31 goals in 133 matches for Coventry, but only 5 goals in 61 matches for Boro.
Afonso Alves scored a staggering 45 goals in 39 matches for Heerenveen, but only 10 goals in 42 matches for Boro.
Massimo Maccarone scored 56 goals in 96 matches for his 2 previous Italian clubs, but only 24 goals in 80 matches for Boro.
Jordan Rhodes scored 73 goals in 124 matches for Huddersfield and another 83 goals in 159 matches for Blackburn, but only 6 goals in 24 matches for Boro.
Rudy Gestede scored 32 goals in 60 matches for Blackburn, but only 4 goals in 39 matches for Boro
Britt Assombalonga scored 23 goals in 43 matches for Southend and another 30 goals in 65 matches for Nottm Forest, but only 28 goals in 85 matches for Boro.
It seems that Boro have never used any of the above forwards as a pair, but only as a lone striker. Perhaps this is an area where things might change under Jonathan Woodgate, but are our midfielders suddenly going to rekindle their former glories? Solve that, and Boro might become more of a potent threat in the future.
Not forgetting Peter Davenport and Billy Ashcroft.
Ah but we did the reverse with John Hickton converted to centre forward!
OFB
OFB
I dont think Stan Anderson is still available to manage Boro.
Fixtures out tomorrow plus the draw for the first round of the Carabao Cup.
I’ll take a punt at our opening fixture being Brentford away – though I’m finding it hard to get excited about the Carabao Cup first round draw 🙁
Huddersfield at Home, and Sunlun in the Cup.
Watching the Ladies World Cup this evening and heard a very pertinent comment. This was that the game seemed to flow much better as there was very little foul play, and the players didn’t dive around feigning injury. The cynic in me says, they’ll soon learn, but I must admit it’s an improvement on the stop start aspect of the male game. Plus there was very little dissent directed towards the referee .
Some lessons to be learned there for their male counterparts.
They may be known as the gentle sex, but some of the ladies Rugby League players would scare the living daylights out of their male compatriots never mind male footballers.
Opening fixture is away at Luton on Friday 2nd 1945 guess it’s on Sky.
Come on BORO.
I wasn’t far off – though just noticed our second fixture is Brentford at home 🙂
Anyway, the August fixtures offer Woodgate a less demanding start to his tenure with games against Luton (a), Brentford (h), Blackburn (a), Wigan (h), Millwall (h) and Bristol City (a)
The next four games after that are Reading (h), Cardiff (a), Sheff Wed (h), Preston (h) which complete his first ten games in charge and the traditional time to make an early judgement.
Only one of those teams finished in the top ten and only one relegated club with quite a few who narrowly avoided relegation last term.
Yes Werder, so that’s 6 at home and four away. The fans will expect a place in the top six at least with those matches.
A gentle start at Luton? One would hope so. At least it will be a better result than our last visit to Kenilworth Road, a 1-5 defeat in the Bryan Robson promotion season. Although we must be wary that promoted teams usually start the season well.
Yep, our first games against Luton for 25 years. Of course that season we got promoted with a rookie manager so if anyone is looking for omens…
Tricky first game though, promoted teams always tend to have a bit of a bounce.
Away to the team that romped to promotion is a tough ask.
I’d always been a fan of Sports Report on BBC Radio since its inception in 1948 on what was then called the Light Programme at 5pm every Saturday. Living in Redcar by the time I got home from Ayresome Park the programme had already started, so to listen to all the Football results I had to wait until 5.50pm for a re-reading of the classified results read by John Webster. In the pre-floodlight era matches kicked off at 2.15pm and I was usually able to get home in time to listen to the full programme as I also did when the Boro were playing away. The BBC Home Service had regional broadcasts at 6pm and for the North East had extended reports of the Boro’s matches and The Third Programme was usually for classical music enthusiasts.
Eventually the Light Programme was split into Radio 1 and Radio 2, the latter broadcasting Sports Report until the advent of Five Live. John Webster was succeeded by the distinctive tones of James Alexander Gordon whose varied intonation in reading the results were expressed in such a way that one knew the result be it a home, draw or away win no matter what the score was. His announcement of the football results always seemed so much more effective than today’s rendition of the results on BBC TV or Sky Sports, almost poetical.
My wife and I owned a timeshare apartment in the Algarve for the first two weeks of October before the internet age, and as the Sunday newspapers weren’t available until Monday lunchtime I was able to obtain the Football results on the BBC World Service through my short-wave radio and enter them in the time-share reception on the Saturday evening before we walked out for dinner in the village. In 1994 we had banked our two week Algarvean holiday to enable us to drive down for a four week break in our timeshare apartment the following year for the first time. Of course eventually having got rid of our timeshare apartment, we used to drive to the Algarve for a 3 month stay, twice in fact for 5 month stay.
Back to 1994 and the reason for banking our 2 week timeshare weeks was to tour New England and Canada in the Fall. On the 15th of October of that year our coach had conveniently stopped for a brief stop and I managed to obtain the English and Scottish Football results on my short wave radio and entered them in my pocket sized football annual. I asked our tourist guide if I could take the microphone to relay the scores in true James Alexander Gordon tradition. I’d always fancied myself as a radio announcer, perhaps vanity had taken over, but it was like a dream come true, tempered only for the fact that I had to read out Luton Town 5 Middlesbrough 1. A bitter sweet experience for a Boro fan, but such nostalgia brought to life after the announcement of next season’s fixtures.
Sadly JAG as he was known throughout his career, died in August 2014, but his dulcet tones will never be forgotten by me and many others.
RIP, JAG.
I used to get the results for many, many years from BBC World Service on long waves. I wrote down the results as I couldn’t wait until Sunday morning when the local paper had the results.
Even I was able to know the result by how JAG was reading them. Fabulous memories. Still remember Sports Round-Up at 17.45 GMT, etc. But James Alexander Gordon was best.
Thanks for sharing the memories, Ken.
Do you still remember the second half commentary from Ayresome Park when we won Aston Villa and it was snowing? I was glued to my short wave radio as we beat Villa – they were THE team to beat that time.
Up the Boro!
So on short waves and LONG distance, of course. Happy memories. UTB!
Talking of seasons past, remember the big half time scoreboard at the East End of Ayresome pk.
Very important when attending reserve games.
gt, I certainly do as it was the only way of getting information of Boro’s away matches at the time
I recall when it was just a letter (to denote the fixture marked in the programme) followed by numbers to give the halftime scores, that were propped against the wall separating the terraces from the running track.
Boro are at home to Crewe in the first round of the Carabao Cup in case anyone was keen to make plans…
I wanted to go to Birmingham…..
Not sure if it will be chosen for live broadcast if you’re looking for a pub to watch it in Brum…
GHW, are you referring to the old pre-war film of Oh, Mr Porter starring Will Hay, or the rather suggestive post-war music hall song by the same name with the lines ‘Oh, Mr Porter what shall I do, I want to go to Birmingham but he’s taken me to Crewe’ , the suggestion being that she’d allowed her boyfriend to go too far? The song somehow hoodwinked the censors at the time.
Live on Sky.
Do they still make Rolls Royces in Crewe? I hope RR can tel me that 🙂
Up the Boro!
I believe Rolls Royce was sold to Volkswagen in the late nineties but car production ceased not long after – I guess they probably didn’t have as much of an image of luxury with the VW badge on the grill…
Bentley’s are still manufactured in Crewe.
Middlesbrough investigating transfers done while Garry Monk was boss
https://mol.im/a/7162977
Bentley Crewe, located on the outskirts of Crewe, Cheshire, England, is the headquarters and design and manufacturing centre of Bentley Motors Limited.
Jarkko, would that be the televised match on St Valentines Day in 1988 when Boro scored late goals through Alan Kernaghan and a diving header from Tony Mowbray to turn a 0-1 deficit into a 2-1 win? It might also have been the time when Bruce Rioch said when interviewed afterwards that if he was on a flight to the moon he’d want Mogga beside him. I’m not quite sure of that, it could well have been another occasion. Nevertheless Villa and Boro finished on equal points with the same goal difference of +27 but Villa were promoted having scored 5 more goals. Boro then went into the playoffs, beat Bradford City 3-2 on aggregate in the playoffs before the infamous battle of Stamford Bridge which enabled them to gain successive promotions after going into administration. I also remember thinking at the time that if goals scored hadn’t succeeded the old system of goal average, that Boro would have finished above Villa by .09 of a goal, such was the quirkiness of the old system of dividing goals scored by goals conceded when teams finished equal on points.
Happy nostalgic times though.
Well spotted Ken. It is of course a reference to the song made famous by Marie Lloyd.
Yes, my wife and I used to enjoy ‘The Good Old Days’ televised by the BBC at the Leeds Palace of Varieties compered ‘for your delectation and delight’ by the late Leonard Sachs.
From my records I observe that except for the 1997/98 season when Boro played Crewe Alexandra in the League, there have only been two occasions when the two clubs have met in Cup competitions, the most recent in the Second year of the League Cup in 1961 when Boro prevailed 3-1 at home. I guess the most famous one though was an FA Cup Quarterfinal match in 1888 which Boro lost 0-2 depriving Boro of their first Semifinal. It took Boro 109 years and 10 more Quarterfinal defeats before they reached that first FA Cup Semifinal.
Interesting……..
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7162977/Middlesbrough-investigating-transfers-Garry-Monk-manager.html
I think the article in the Mail is only saying Boro are reviewing their transfers under Monk – presumably to see if they can see any indication that James Featherstone (the agent he used at Birmingham) was involved in any of the deals. At the moment it said Featherstone was only involved in the Christie deal on behalf of Derby and none of the other 14 signings Monk made.
It seems the issue for Birmingham was that Monk was told he couldn’t use Featherstone but it has since emerged he was was involved in 9 transfer deals that Birmingham were involved with – and that has been the reason stated why he was dismissed this week.
I think the problem perhaps is that Featherstone is a director of the Omni-Sports agency where both Monk and James Beattie are clients and they also have around 100 players on their books according to Transfermarkt. It could be regarded as a conflict of interest if deals being signed are both representing the player and manager. Although the Mail article stated there wasn’t any evidence of wrong-doing.
I may be adding two and two together and getting five but the club do seem to be falling out with people over the last few seasons The Gazette, Derby County, Monk and his backroom team.
Not forgetting the EFL.
And we do not yet know the real reason why Monk was dismissed from Boro. Usually Mr Gibson gives a new manager nearly two seasons to work without disturbing much.
So there must be something in Monks actions that made the axe used.
Up the Boro!
One hopes that Sassuolo can come up with a reasonable offer for Braithwaite. The player is a mercenary and I get the impression he is the type of player that will move wherever the money is, no loyalty to any particular club. It’s all well and good his saying he’s happy at Leganes, but I very much doubt that he would entertain staying there if Boro weren’t paying a fair chunk of his wages. Jonathan Woodgate has stated that every Boro player including Braithwaite will start with a clean slate. The fact is that even if Braithwaite’s conduct had been exemplary Boro can’t afford his wages and he would still be the first player they’d try to unload.
I have to slightly disagree with Anthony Vickers that it’s essential that Boro get off to a good start. Desirable, but not essential. I go along with Jonathan Woodgate’s circumspection that it doesn’t really matter in which order Boro play their 46 matches. We cannot with any certainty predict which matches are easier fixtures and which are harder. Bolton started last season quite well but were relegated, Norwich and Villa started badly but both were promoted. Boro themselves started well, but the season ended in disappointment. Similarly in the previous season Fulham and Millwall didn’t start well, but the former were promoted and the latter almost made the playoffs. A few seasons ago Bournemouth had a poor start to the season, but easily won promotion, and years before that Blackpool surged up the table to grab a playoff place and ultimate promotion. It’s how one finishes, not necessarily how one starts.
The season that Boro were relegated under Gareth Southgate started really well with a home win over Spurs, were unlucky to lose to a Steven Gerrard blockbuster at Anfield, were well placed after winning at Villa Park, but it all went wrong after conceding two late goals at Hull when looking certain to hang on for three points. Anyone who has read my articles on Boro’s history will note how often Boro started their seasons well only to flounder to mid-table or worse. But conversely Boro were rock bottom after a few matches in their first season in the Third Division, but a storming finish ending with that never to be forgotten 4-1 home win against Oxford saw them promoted.
Whilst agreeing that a good start is preferable to a bad one, perhaps 8 or 9 points from Boro’s first 6 matches might not be a bad return, a solid start rather than a spectacular one.
Ken, the small problem as I said previously, is that Boro have six home matches out the first ten. The papers are saying Sheff Wed apart we have the easiest start.
Now whilst I agree with the first part of your post and it is a marathon season, will the majority of fans be as understanding?
Especially if he flips and flops around with different formations and players like Monk did
I see SD has signed for Blackburn. Well there’s a potential problem solved, but good luck to him, apart from when he plays against us.
Malcolm (aka Braveheart) will be gutted 🙂
Hi Werder, thank you, just seen the news a few mins ago and I am absolutely delightfully gutted…..made my night, going to have a few extra beers !
Good news on Downing.
Despite a fair bit of stick, I felt that SD was generally one our better performers when he played but, like most others, wasn’t effective enough in the attacking third.
However, he doesn’t fit the direction the club has now set and his wages were far out of kilter with his value to the team. To have retained him, even on significantly lower wages, would have sent a confusing and frankly, the wrong, message. Good luck to him at Blackburn but a good move for us.
I feel we can lose Braithwaite and possibly one of the central midfielders as well. With SD and the loanees gone, that should make a pretty big dent in the wage bill and hopefully bring about some space within the FFP limits to bring in the dynamic fullbacks/wingbacks we desperately need.
I think it would be remiss of me not to comment on the career of Stewart Downing. To play for Villa, Liverpool and West Ham with combined transfer fees in the region of £20m plus, and to be capped 35 times for England is no mean feat. No Boro born player has approached any where near that number of England appearances. Wilf Mannion had 26 caps and George Hardwick 13, and whilst recognising that the Second World War probably deprived them of many more, and the fact that England now play many more international matches than in days of yore, Downing’s total is still one that he and we should be proud of. Hounded by the Southern press when playing for his country, and sometimes by Boro fans during his second spell with Boro, most of today’s fans were quick to let everyone know that he’s one of our own.
Having said all that Boro, and Steve Gibson in particular, should never have re-signed him. His speed and the accuracies of his crosses and free kicks had deserted him, but that should not detract from what he had achieved previously. At 35 years of age he still looks physically fit, has rarely been injured, but not fit for purpose in a young looking team that Jonathan Woodgate aspires to. However a one year contract under Tony Mowbray is probably a fitting way to end a successful career.
I realise my comments may not be shared by all contributors to this forum, especially Malcolm, but if someone of the standing of Steven Gerard still rates him and Mogga obviously does, I wish him all the best and hope he gets the reception his career deserves if he plays for Blackburn at the Riverside next February.
Hi Ken, totally agree that SG should have never resigned him.
I see that we are still using the market in players without one ounce of skill or nuance.
If we are being reported as being interested in a young foreign striker, who rejected us a year ago for a better club, and has since then crashed and burned, and furthermore one who is frantically trying to fix himself up with anybody (but us, of course) then I despair.
How often must we say it.
Spot your young player, Mark on a check list his strong points, watch his next twelve matches, in secret, keep stumm.
Then ask him if he would like to join your club, yes I know that it is illegal to do so, but he must have a father or brother or somebody.
If the answer is yes, then deal with his club, reach agreement and sign him without delay.
Once there are a few clubs in the mix you can forget it, because you are the patsy being used to up the price, or worse, to unload him on someone (that would be you) complete with secret injury (incurable).
All well with Boro and Woody. I think the desision not to sign Downing is a clever one by Woody.
It would have been difficult to have a brother-in-law playing under himself. A desision that suits all parties – Boro (money and age), Downing and Mogga.
A professional desision by Woody. Now all the headlines about Downings brother-in-law can be forgotten. I like the start he has made. Up the Boro!
Yes. Very early stages and somewhat open goals but between the press conference and the SD news, it’s 2-0 to Woody so far.
Yes he appears to be making all the right noises so far but he has done so in the past as a player and then failed to deliver.
It’s far to early to make any judgements particularly as the season has not even started. It’s wait and see time. 😎
I’m keeping a check on the pro’s and con’s. Downing’s exit is a good start for the pro’s.
GHW,
I love a system and stats too. You’re in charge of the Pro’s and Con’s Department now. What you say goes.
UTB,
John
Well, more or less.
On Downing nobody can argue he’s a talented footballer, on his day silky intelligent as good a passer as anyone.
However my gripe with him, and the only slight understanding I may have with him, is, we signed him at the wrong time in his career ,and that’s Steve Gibsons fault.
He had done what he’d set out to do , Caps etc, when he came back ,no matter what he might have said, he wasn’t up for a 90min, 46 game season ,with the aim of promotion,
Its obvious by the fact none of us can count on two fingers his outstanding contributions over three seasons.
He does get involved when he receives the ball, but without it ,he went missing ,he should be named Lord Lucan.
In fact we conceded a number of times when he refused to tighten up on people or put a tackle in.
For me he played Steve Gibson like a fiddle, he was just interested in extending his playing career and good contracts, proof of that was last season hanging on for an extension, and prem money.
Good look to Mogga ,getting him motivated, after the first ten games, I’ll be over.
I am missing RR. I really do. He is my hero and he can be trusted when something is not OK on the field before we foamhands realise anything. A top lad.
I hope he will find his club and team again. He is red and one of our own. And I mean you, Redcar Red.
Up the Boro!
Me too Jarkko. Hope he is just on holiday.
I agree. It’s 7 days since Redcar Red last posted his thoughts on this forum. I too think he may be on holiday. Hoping so, because this forum needs his contributions, as he and Werdermouth are in a league of their own as journalists to many of us.
I haven’t disappeared off the face of the earth just yet. I’ve been really busy these last few weeks starting up a business venture and now planning on an impending business trip next week. Admittedly I would normally have found time (probably far too much time) to post but have to admit to being totally, completely and utterly underwhelmed not to mention feeling extremely uncomfortable about MFC at the minute. So much so that where I could previously separate MFC from Boro and deal with that way it I now find myself struggling to differentiate.
Leaving the appointment to one side on which I haven’t changed my mind one iota (and this isn’t the place to get into a debate for obvious reasons), the process of it and how it panned out has just about ended my trust, belief and confidence. The entire scenario and plot was so predictable and transparent that it was at the level of a Dad’s Army script. It would have been almost as comical if it wasn’t so serious, well at least to many of us on Teesside (I do accept that there are far more serious things going on in the world right now).
I really hope it’s not as dystopian as I presently feel, an all controlling “Inner Party” at the top, an “Outer Party” seemingly fulfilled via the local Press after their recent redemption seemingly charged with maintaining the aura of spin and propaganda as fed down to them. We know from their past transgressions that deep down they know and do know that we know but watched by the Thought Police they have little recourse to be open and challenging knowing that passivity is the road of least resistance. Us? Well we are simply the Proles.
OK, maybe that is an emotionally exaggerated view but it pretty much sums up my thoughts and feelings. After the turgid dross of the Pulis era I felt that what was needed was exactly what the club are currently saying (but with zero substance) in terms of style but with a new and professional team in charge. What we ended up with was a divisive Head Coach with little experience to take the reins through a cost cutting era yet again supported by a team with limited experience themselves. To then sit and listen about how recruitment has all changed when those same “Inner Party” individuals presided over successive catastrophic transfer windows was unbelievable.
To cut to the chase my excitement about new signings or indeed any Boro related news has reduced to almost zero which took some doing after many decades. Reading some of the few articles that I have looked at has been enlightening but probably not for the reasons intended. I genuinely thought that after Pulis things couldn’t get any worse but right now given a straight choice and I’d have him back in a heartbeat, season card or no season card. I was one of the ones that wanted Pulis here initially and look how that turned out in the end so who knows maybe this shuffle might work in spite of rather than because of but for many reasons it’s something that I can’t get behind and support.
Good to know you havn’t Left us for good and fully understand your angst with recent events. 😎
Had to laugh at this from the Hartlepool Mail…what a joke…
” Stewart Downing reveals why he left Boro – The former Boro winger was unveiled as Blackburn’s first summer signing earlier today, following his departure from the Riverside last month.
And in an interview with the Northern Echo, the 34-year-old opened up on his conversation with new Boro boss Jonathan Woodgate and the decision to leave Teesside.
“I spoke to Woody. He would have liked to have kept me but they are also wanting to buy younger players now and the wage bill is being reduced,” said Downing.
“We both thought it was probably best I went. It is a clean slate for us both. It was best for both of us, so I can keep playing and he can get on with his job. It’s all sound.”
“When I spoke to Woody he said to go and enjoy the last couple of years of my career.”
I bet our wage bill will still be more than Blackburn’s
What a wonderful finish to the New Zealand v West Indies match as Carlos Brathwaite scored 101 and took 25 off the 48th over only to be caught on the boundary going for a 6 off the final ball of the penultimate over to complete what would have been an astonishing win. Although the West Indies were unlikely to qualify for the Semifinal, I felt so sorry for Brathwaite in particular as he didn’t deserve to be on the losing side.
Sad to hear of the death of William Simons aged 79 who played PC Ventriss in Heartbeat. Born in Swansea he was another member of the cast who bought a house in Goathland, the setting for Aidensfield. An actor who enjoyed the wonderful North York Moors scenery in a series that helped to put our region on the map.
RIP Bill.
Yes, I loved Heartbeat. I think the series was shown on TV here in Finland at least three times as it was so popular.
When I took my team over to see Boro vs. Brighton and play against a Jim Platt team of former professionals, we all enjoyed visiting Goathland, aka Aidensfield. They were thrilled and as you might have guessed I had been there before already.
Yes, RIP Bill. Up the Boro!
Steve Gibson decided during the summer of 2001 that a change had to be made concerning the managership of Middlesbrough FC. He and Bryan Robson had become great friends, but realised that for Robson to continue wouldn’t go down too well with the supporters, so with a heavy heart he decided in the interests of the club, and Robson also, it was time to part company with him. He thus decided to act quickly in finding a successor, and Steve McClaren was his choice. He had to move quickly because West Ham United were also looking for a new manager after dispensing with the services of Harry Redknapp and McClaren was on their radar. So after approaching Manchester United he interviewed McClaren and a 5 year contract was agreed.
McClaren’s first signing was Bill Beswick, a sports psychologist, as his assistant, followed by Steve Harrison as first-team coach, Paul Barron as goalkeeping coach, and Steve Round as second-team coach. His first recruitment on the playing staff was Gareth Southgate for £6.5m from Aston Villa to resume his partnership with Ugo Ehiogu which had been successful at Villa. He then bought Jonathan Greening and Mark Wilson from Manchester United for a joint fee of £3.5m. All three players were in the squad to start the season at home to Arsenal, Wilson though as a substitute. The season didn’t start well though with a 0-4 loss to the Gunners followed by away defeats at Bolton and Everton, and although Colin Cooper scored Boro’s first goal of the season as early as the 4th minute at home to Newcastle, they went on to lose that match also 1-4. Rock bottom after their first 4 matches.
Boro then won at home to West Ham with goals from Brian Deane and Allan Johnston, making his debut after joining from Glasgow Rangers, and then won their first away match before the Sky cameras 2-0 with both goals from Paul Ince and Jonathan Greening coming in the last five minutes. A last minute penalty by Alen Boksic earned a 2-2 draw at Chelsea, but Boro then lost 1-3 at home to Southampton. In the League Cup Boro had disposed of Northampton Town, but succumbed to defeat after extra time to Blackburn Rovers in the next round. A goalless draw at Charlton followed by a 2-0 home win over Sunderland had Boro in 13th place after the first 10 matches.
Boro sprung to life in the second half of the home match to Derby County. After a goalless first half Boro scored 5 second-half goals as Carlos Marinelli mesmerised the Rams with a display including 2 goals, and the start of a 4 match unbeaten run with Boro in 12th place, but 4 successive defeats then shoved them down to 16th by the end of the year. The losing sequence was broken on New Years Day with a 1-0 home win over Everton as Boro then started their FA Cup campaign at Wimbledon. The match finished in a goalless draw but Boro won the replay 2-0 and awaited the televised visit of Manchester United in the next round where a paltry crowd of only 17,624 witnessed a Boro win with late goals from Noel Whelan and Andy Campbell.
Meanwhile Boro’s League form was improving with a 1-0 win at Sunderland in a 5 match unbeaten run as Boro welcomed Blackburn Rovers to the Riverside in the FA Cup where Ugo Ehiogu scored the only goal of the match 3 minutes from time to take Boro into the Quarterfinals. Three goals in the first half saw Boro easily beat Everton and Boro had reached the Semifinal. This win also meant that Boro had lost only once in the previous 13 matches winning 7 of them. Liverpool ended that run by beating Boro at the Riverside 2-1, but Boro then visited Old Trafford and beat Manchester United with an early Boksic goal, the prelude of another unbeaten run, this time of 4 matches of which 3 were won.
The FA Cup Semifinal was to take place at Old Trafford, this time against Arsenal and Boro put in a tremendous performance despite rather unluckily losing 0-1. As often happens after a long Cup run, Boro faltered and lost their last 4 League matches to finish in 12th position. Goalscoring had generally been a problem with Alen Boksic finishing top scorer with 8 and Noel Whelan with 7 in all matches, but considering Boro had lost their first 4 matches and also their last 4 matches, overall Steve McClaren’s first season could have been considered rather satisfying.
I’ll continue with Steve McClaren’s second year as Boro manager tomorrow.
It’s amazing to think that McClaren was given a five-year contract back then as it was his first managerial post. Perhaps it’s an indication of how times have changed as most managers are now lucky if they survive two years – Woodgate was given a three-year deal but he possibly wasn’t particularly expensive.
I can certainly sympathise with RR on the whole charade that has surrounded the appointment of Woodgate with his reinvention from the club and local media as being the best available candidate to succeed Pulis. I struggle with the logic on that and wonder on what criteria was the head coach appointment judged by.
Whilst, I would perhaps agree with the aspiration of the club to move to a faster more exciting brand of football that promotes the introduction of younger hungrier players, I don’t see how the conclusion that Woodgate was best placed to deliver that aspiration given he’s been part of the Pulis coaching team that worked day-in-day-out more or less doing the opposite.
It almost seems Woodgate was chosen because he agreed with that aspiration and he’s now going to work out how to develop a training plan, formation and tactics that can now deliver it. Perhaps one of his strengths is that he was prepared to allow others at the club to shape the transfer policy and he also didn’t have a coaching team to bring with him.
Although those strengths are indeed also his weaknesses, in that he doesn’t come with a team that has experience in implementing such a strategy or system of play. It’s essentially going to be trial and error as messers Woodgate, Keane and Percovich try to find their feet. Whilst there may be plenty of enthusiasm, it will become difficult if they don’t find the right balance or indeed find the right players to execute this new planned style of play.
It’s even possible we may not even see much difference from the style of football that went before as I suspect it will be an evolution rather than revolution, which will possibly depend on acquiring some key players with pace and power. If they don’t arrive (which has often been the case in recent years) then it will be back to makeshift solutions that will perhaps require aspirations to be put on hold.
Of course the advantage may well be that some players may feel less restricted by Pulis’s micro-management and actually start expressing themselves better on the pitch without the fear of getting a pitch-side earful from Tony. Sometimes maybe a change in emphasis works for what are still quite an expensively assembled squad of players that under-performed under Monk and Pulis.
I personally have not felt particularly connected to a Boro manager since Mogga, so the appointment of Woodgate doesn’t alter much on that front. Karanka was a driven complex character who had a bunker mentality, Agnew was the nice guy who looked to have been dropped in it, Monk was quite aloof, Pulis was the old-school man who just does what he always does regardless.
Anyway, the die has been cast and it’s now a case of hoping it all somehow works out – hopefully the promise of exciting attacking football is at least evident as without that it’s not clear if the appointment of Woodgate will be greeted with anything other than cynicism or even apathy.
At the moment my apathy knows no bounds I’m afraid. There appears to be a degree of eccentricity over these last few years in terms of decision making and squabbles from SG. This latest façade just seems to be carrying on in the same vein which stretches back well over a decade now. In 86 things were so bad it seemed there was literally only one way we could go but without Rioch and the rub of the green with a simultaneous good crop of kids it could have went in another direction entirely.
The 90’s and Robbo were the halcyon days when things entered a whole new era on Teesside and then after McClaren hit the heights in the noughties things went on a very slippery slope. The Commercial excesses in delivering with overpaid, over the hill players with zero resale value effectively broke the back of the cub. I don’t think SG let alone MFC have fully recovered from that and a succession of poor decisions (Karanka aside) over the last thirteen or so years leads us to where we are today. Of course it could be worse, Bolton are evidence of what happens when things go really wrong.
What we have today however is the same old hierarchy who repeatedly failed to deliver business goals yet despite several management and coaching overhauls and changes it would appear that they haven’t been identified as part of the problem. When a business continues to struggle at some point the axe falls on board members when the excuses run out. The total disconnection between recruitment, contracts offered and a succession of managers playing requirements are about as bare faced as it gets for me. That press conference that had so many gushing for me was nothing more than a case of see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil.
There appears to be a bit of repetitive cycle in that Southgate followed McClaren, Agnew followed Karanka and now Woodgate after Pulis. In between there is a sandwich filling of a kneejerk experienced appointment to sort out the mess and then after the “Inner Party” indulge themselves once again on unnecessary and unwanted disconnected appointments at a seemingly unaffordable expense. Then it is the manager who gets it in the neck and we have to reduce costs yet again with a rookie, and repeat. For the avoidance of doubt sitting alongside Mourinho and Ferguson for years makes them a lot more than a Rookie in the conventional sense. McClaren and Karanka’s background cannot be compared to Southgate and Woodgate and to a lesser extent perhaps Agnew.
Now we are faced with supposedly changing the entire philosophy of a club with a squad whose skill sets are in complete contrast to the dream. That is a massive overhaul and one which is an unreasonable ask on an inexperienced team of coaches. Years of Karanka, a few spluttering months of Monk and then Pulis has left us with good solid pro’s, far too many questionables and huge gaps in between. Silk purses do not come from Pigs ears.
Still like the new set up talk is cheap and when it inevitably follows the Riverside cycle and goes pear shaped SG can sell the Stadium to a new holding company and start again with a Chris Hughton or whichever steady experienced Manager is available at the time and we can start the ride again. To find a solution you have to identify the cause, when is the penny going to drop that the problem isn’t with all the coaches or managers?
I think as an outside observer (and it’s not just with Boro) football clubs are generally run on a whim where throwing money at the problem has become the main recognised solution. If you throw enough (or a significant amount more than your rivals) you stand a reasonable chance of finishing ahead of them. OK, it doesn’t always work as there is the small matter of dealing with the pressure that spending money places on managers and players – plus that other issue of those who are being highly rewarded either believing the inevitable hype that comes with a big price tag – or whether they have ultimately arrived because of the money and are not as hungry and motivated in their current environment.
I suspect there is probably an optimal curve where all that extra money being spent on quite often the wrong kind of players ceases to have much effect. No doubt the key is having people leading the process who can get the maximum out of the players. Sometimes that will be the manager or it may be down to having a few good leaders on the pitch and a few players with a big-game attitude who don’t go missing when needed. Possibly the enthusiasm of youth can help too but it may in the end just be down to a couple of pivotal games that add the belief to the group.
I think what has happened more and more is that football for many coaches has become about controlling the pieces on the board and measuring all the biometric data as proof that their methods are working – regardless of the football on display or even the result. Perhaps Woodgate may become the accidental hero in the same way as not doing something can occasionally be better than doing the wrong thing. I just hope at some point all the myth creating around Woodgate will stop claiming he was an undiscovered genius that suddenly revealed himself to the club during an extensive Europe-wide search.
I’m now pretty sure Woodgate was always the plan once Pulis wasn’t going to have his contract extended as it’s hard to imagine many managers with experience would have been prepared to take the role under the carefully controlled conditions that he has now become head coach. Woodgate has basically bought into the whole plan of Gibson, Bausor and Bevington to try and produce an attack-minded team on a budget with the acceptance that probably key sales will be made above his head.
Nothing wrong with that plan but there would be few takers willing to risk their reputations on making that work – not even Pulis I suspect. Perhaps at least we can get back to focussing on building a functioning team that tries to play football rather than re-educating the supporters to learn to love non-football.
An excellently reasoned post Werder. 😎
Thanks KP and somewhere on the spectrum between the over-hyped spin and the underwhelmed cynicism will lie reality – I suspect one side of the argument will be surprised but not sure which one as yet. Though given how Woodgate has been marketed in recent weeks by the Gazette, we’re lucky Chelsea didn’t opt for him instead of Lampard 🙂
The reality of the situation is (which the club will not admit) the rewards of our one season in the PL have been squandered.
Like most, if not all, of the Championship sides our costs outweigh our income and that is unlikely to change without another promotion.
JW was without doubt the cheapest option and I suspect that even if SG wanted to retain TP he may have struggled to cover the costs of another contract.
If we spend another three/four years in the Championship then things will be even more dire and I can see a scenario where gates are well below the 20K level and more drastic cost cutting involved. I suspect that things like Riverside Live will be at risk.
The only other way out is for SG to agree either a full or part sale, to probably overseas buyers who might see possible potential but I wouldn’t bet my Villa on it. 😎
As I’m eager to watch the Cricket World Cup tomorrow between England and Australia, I decided at 10.30 last night to make a start of the McClaren years in the continuation of my historical journey of Middlesbrough FC. The first season review took me a little longer than I anticipated so I didn’t get to bed until 1am this morning, so with 4 more seasons to review I’m expecting a long day with just the odd break for mealtimes etc. It would have been preferable to review all McClaren’s years in one day, but with the research involved that wouldn’t be possible, so unless Werdermouth can augment yesterday’s blog with today’s, it be slightly fragmented. Hopefully as it’s almost 12 noon I’ll be able to conclude McClaren’s years today, so here goes.
Ken if you want to, I’d be happy to combine all the parts together, add some photos and then post it as the next discussion blog article.
If only SG had waited another week he could have included Rafa Benitez as part of his wide ranging search for a new manager.
Having considered all the candidates he would no doubt have concluded that JW was the best applicant! 😎😂
Just waiting for tomorrow night’s (or morning) Gazette’s back page headline: “Why Rafa isn’t fit to lace Woody’s boots” or “Ten reasons why Mike Ashley can’t afford Woodgate”.
At this rate might just have a daft tenner on Richard Keogh becoming the next Derby Manager if as seems likely Lampard departs. Having had to sell their ground poor Mel Morris must be nearly skint. I can just see the Derby Telegraph headlines “After extensive interviews attracting the finest talent Global Football Management has to offer we gave it to the big useless lump because he stood out (means taller) from the other candidates”.
There would be an unexpected side effect, the Rams would eliminate a gaffe and gain a gaffer.
Away for the weekend but watched the highlights from England v Cameroon.
VAR made for some interesting viewing. The problem is that you have to accept the verdict, both offsides were correct just as the one that penalised Lingard the other night and the retaken penalty against Scotland.
You cannot put the genie back in the bottle, it is players behaviour that is the problem not VAR.
Whether you like VAR or not is another matter, same goes for the actual laws.
Watching most of the wwc ,its nice to see players augment their skills, with also ,running with the ball,chasing back for the ball, pressing for the ball,tackling for the ball, and getting up after being tackle.
Makes a change from watching some of the poses and drama queens playing in the men’s game
Ian
The beauty of the Var system is the fact that it is completely random, does not possess a heart, and has no favourites.
This enrages the fans, and devastates the big and popular clubs.
Any late equaliser or winner for a big club, is a done deal, the cheering covers up the inconvenient (very) fact of the offside ( only a little one) say the press in the morning editions, and as for the ex players in the commentary box, a soothing smile and comment along the lines of, ‘ we must expect the odd small mistake from the reffs (who do a wonderful job) yea! me too.
The serious behaviour comes from the nations without much law and order at home, you know, the odd ref killed now and then, just to keep them bent.
God knows what goes on in their football. And he’s not saying.
JW was in the crowd watching the under 21’s in Italy. A Boro manager actually watching players in the flesh.
Another tick in the pro’s column.
I think Mogga was the biggest exponent of watching players in recent times – perhaps that’s another benefit of austerity that means actively assessing players rather than looking at their stats, checking scouting dossiers and watching their best bits videos before taking a punt. Maybe Woodgate could have an eye for a player – it certainly would be a useful trait at this current juncture.
GHW,
We move forward in a statistically positive manner. Are things getting better? Time will tell.
UTB,
John
Whilst I am not hiding that I remain sceptical on the merits of the Woodgate appointment, I shall nevertheless keep an open mind on how his tenure unfolds. Naturally, I would like nothing more than to see this new plan of playing on the front foot come to fruition as this is what I’ve been waiting for since Karanka left.
I’m also someone who is unconvinced that the trend in technical coaches who analyse all the stats and believe they can orchestrate a dynamic game of football by passing on instructions from the sideline is ultimately a flawed thesis. I’m more in favour of those who attempt to harness energy and enthusiasm rather than curtail it for the greater tactical plan.
We’ve seen all too often how the strengths of players have been sacrificed in order to control the game and nullify the opposition. OK, players should have jobs in and out of possession but not if it hinders their initial purpose of being on the pitch in the first place – you are then essentially nullifying your own attack on behalf of the opposition.
Having watched quite a bit of the Championship now it doesn’t really possess world-class finishers and play-makers who will kill you if you give them time on the ball – so the tactics should be optimised for the level you play and shouldn’t be designed for an opposition that rarely turns up. Therefore, a switch to playing on the front foot shouldn’t be overly risky if your defenders know how to defend and the idea of winning the ball back quickly should always be based on knowing what to do with the ball when you have it – not just having possession for the sake of it.
Although, under Pulis Boro were content to give the opposition the ball and keep their shape so they couldn’t create opportunities – the lone forward’s job was primarily to occupy the defenders rather than score goals – the midfield’s job was to help shield the defence. The lack of goals ultimately proved costly even if Boro remained in contention by not losing too often – but it was our inability to react to conceding a goal that meant teams were comfortable to take a risk against us.
If the high pressing game that is planned works out then it will be a less comfortable opposition who turn up at the Riverside, which will no longer expect to be take the initiative and look to make their possession count. Hopefully it won’t expose our defenders as not being as good as their previous stats indicated – that is basically the risk of switching from the back to the front foot. I also think we may need some more clinical finishers if Boro are to overpower teams and not let them off the hook as was often the case last term.
Trouble is Werder, I do not think most Championship Coaches areas clever as you.
Use the players you have, utilising their strengths. JW should in reality be able to organise the defence to be tight without being overly defensive. It is the midfield that has to improve the most aided by some additional pace and forward passing skills.
If we keep the majority of our players and add a couple of full backs we could do OK.
Inexperience within the Coaches may be a problem when things go wrong from time to time. But saying that Mr Pulis had no answer to the six games defeated on the bounce.
It’s now I.OOam and I’ve just finished the historical review of the McClaren, but a notice has appeared that the blog cannot be posted. I hope Werdermouth can retrieve it as I’ve spent 13 hours writing it and can’t possibly repeat it all again.
Ken, sorry to say nothing arrived at my end and I’d be extremely gutted if you’ve lost a long day’s work. I can only suggest if you typed it in to the comment box (always a bit risky for long posts) is to try clicking the back arrow button on your browser (holding down the ‘Alt’ button on your keyboard and clicking the ‘left arrow’ usually also works too) to see if it reappears with your text.
Just checked question and answers on my iPad from other users and apparently Alt doesn’t exist on iPads, so reached an impasse.
Sorry Ken didn’t know you were using an iPad – I read the safari browser (if that is what you are using) may no longer have a back button but you can instead just swipe from the left edge of your screen (i.e. from left to right) with your finger to go back while in your browser screen. It’s then possible you’ll get back to the page where you posted but much will depend if it’s still in memory and not sure if it will still be there if so much time has elapsed. Anyway give it a try as I’ve got no other solution.
It always makes sense to write long posts elsewhere, and then copy and paste them in to the comments box.
Werdermouth
As Steve McClaren’s tenure is fairly recent, it probably hasn’t any appeal now as history or even nostalgia. Originally I intended to finish my historical journey up to the Riverside Revolution anyhow, so perhaps I should have left it at that, but my enthusiasm probably overtook reality. I must add that I’m gratified that so many people have enjoyed sharing the history of Middlesbrough FC with me as I have in writing about it. It has revived happy memories and nostalgia for myself also, but as you appreciate it has been very time-consuming. However I’m always willing to answer any questions about the history of our beloved club as much as I’m able, so I’ll leave it at that. Of course that doesn’t mean that I’ll have no input on this forum which I must state has improved immensely since its inception, and will still be my first port of call in reading other fans’ views. So congratulations to yourself, Redcar Red, OFB, Simon, Len, Ian and Jarkko particularly for making this such an interesting and valuable forum, and thanks to all those for their kind thoughts regarding my many health problems. As OFB writes we are a caring band of brothers. For now I’ll sign off with Jarkko’s words, Up the Boro.
That’s a shame you lost the McClaren post Ken it would have been interesting to see your view on his tenure – but I’ll hopefully be able to find time to collate your other historic posts over the coming months. Anyway, keep blogging and I hope you at least enjoy the cricket today after all your effort yesterday!
Is it over-simplistic of me to say that if we attack at speed with 7 men leaving the two centre halves and a holding midfield player then the opposition is going to be forced to keep most of their team back to cover. Sure there will be room down the flanks for counter-attacks but the balance must fall in our favour and if we give away the odd goal, so be it. If all this is coupled with a freedom to play risky forward passes without censure then it might actually make Boro a team really worth watching. What odds 8-10 goals from Saville this coming season?
The opposite is to attack with three or four players and then act surprised when the opposition themselves can get forward in strength.
Maybe necessity – lack of money coupled with a good young squad – will once again prove to the mother of invention and a new style for Boro.
I hear the cynicism or uncertainty from other well-respected bloggers and can only say that I choose not to be overwhelmed by the negatives. It’s a personal choice and of course I can see the stupidities from the club in claiming that ‘JW is the best manager in their world’ but its easier for me to shrug and move forwards. It’s not blind optimism but i’d rather expect good outcomes until bad ones arrive. It’s better for my overall mental health.
For anyone watching the WWC, I’d say that it’s been quite a lot of fun. Some good football but the difference in power does change the kind of game. Very few goals from outside the area. I’m looking forward to France v USA. It could turn out to be quite a battle.
UTB
A few eyebrows were raised by the assembled hacks at Woody’s latest press conference. With Steve Gibson standing behind him his hand seemed to be involved in some kind of string pulling. The only discernible quotes they could get were as follows.
“Reach for the sky!”
“There’s a snake in my boot!”
“You’re my favorite deputy!”
“Someone’s poisoned the water hole!”
“I’d like to join your posse, boys, but first I’m gonna sing a little song.”
“Yee-haw! Giddy-up partner! …
“This town ain’t big enough for the two of us.”
When asked to comment SG would only repeat…….
“ To the Premiership and beyond!”
I’ve just watched the playing of the National Anthems before the Cricket World Cup match between England and Australia. I must say all the Australian players sang out their anthem, as did most of the English players with gusto especially Jonny Bairstow and Joe Root. Whether one is a royalist or not ‘God save the Queen’ is the British National Anthem, not England’s alone. However Adil Rashid and Moen Ali are English born as well as Muslims and didn’t sing. My view is if you were born in England and are representing your Country you should sing the National Anthem whatever religion you are. Now whether ‘God save the Queen’ is the proper anthem for English people is another matter. The Welsh sing ‘ Land of my Fathers’ and I would prefer that England should adopt ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ as their’s. Leave ‘God save the Queen’ for ceremonial occasions as the British anthem unless we can come up wth anything more appropriate.
I would go with all of that Ken.
Not keen on the National Anthem, it just does not sit right somehow. As you suggested use it for Ceremonial occasions and let the people choose and English one.
May be a referendum?? And if we involved the MP’s they would I am sure point the way. Or not.
Aasaaaarrghhhhhhhh….not another referendum….nooooooooo
We could have a sing off though, not a vote. On seconds thoughts no, we couldn’t even organise that.
UTB,
John
Very true Ken. Scotland have their own “Flower of Scotland”
I think that we have belatedly realised that an awful lot of clubs both big and small have changed their method of running their club, and switched to the preferred method of the giants, which is fiercely searching for the young stars and grabbing them before they are known.
There is a ‘but’ (there always is) he who wishes to hook a great young player, must employ a trusted pair of eyes, and must actually watch the chosen target, in secret, a lot, make a decision, and act instantly.
A committee of well paid recruiters cannot do this, and would not do this, it is interesting that with a free gift, and the endorsement of his ex club ringing in their ears, plus a quite brilliant debut, our manager was blissfully and publicly unaware of his talents, and said so, at length, to the world, surely one of the worst days our club has suffered for a long time. But the top people at the club were just as guilty. You simply do not allow your servants to talk rubbish, and follow up by keeping him out of the team.
Would say, Spurs have allowed such a shaming act to continue, I quote them because they have a chairman who would laugh at the idea of the manager doing anything that he disagreed with, ever.
Just been browsing at the 2015/16 final Championship table, a question of where are they now:-
1 Burnley 93 still PL 15th 40 pts
2 Boro 89 now Champ 7th 73 pts
3 Brighton 89 now PL 17th 36pts
4 Hull 83 still Champ 13th 62pts
5 Derby 78 still Champ 6th 74pts
6 Sheff Wed 74 still Champ 12th 64pts
7 Ipswich 69 now Div 1 rel 31pts
8 Cardiff 68 was PL, now Champ rel 18th
9 Brent 65 still Champ 11th 64 pts
10 Birm 63 still Champ 17th 52pts
11 PNE 62 still Champ 14th 61pts
12 QPR 60 still Champ 19th 51pts
13 Leeds 59 still Champ 3rd 83 pts
14 Wolves 58 now PL 7th 57pts
15 Black 55 relegated, promoted 15th 60pts
16 Forest 55 still Champ 9th 66pts
17 Read 52 still Champ 20th 47pts
18 Bristol 52 still Champ 8th 70pts
19 Hudds 51 was PL, now Champ rel 16pts
20 Fulham 51 was PL, now Champ rel 26pts
21 Roth 49 relegated, promoted, relegated
22 Charlton 40 relegated, promoted
23 MKD 39 was Div 2, now Div 1
24 Bolton 30 promoted, relegated 32pts
Biggest upward movers in 3 seasons
Wolves biggest movers
Sheff Utd up 35 positions (11th in Div1 66pts)
Norwich up 13 positions from last year plus 34pts
Leeds up 10 positions plus 24pts
Bristol up 10 positions plus 18pts
Forest up 7 positions plus 11pts
Fulham and Hudds promoted from lowly positions
Biggest downward movers in 3 seasons
Ipswich down 17 positions minus 38pts
Hull down 9 positions minus 21pts
Boro down 5 positions minus 16pts
Birm down 7 positions minus 11pts
Sheff Wed down 6 positions minus 10pts
QPR down 7 positions minus 9pts
Sheffield United were only mid-table in Division 1, Norwich were relegated from Premier League, but I’ve compared their position last season to this season. Nevertheless intriguing how the balance of power of most clubs has changed in only 3 years.
https://diasboro.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/toy-story-steve.jpg
I saw that Dael Fry was back in tests yesterday after his hamstring injury. But is he fully fit as I did not see him in the pictures from Rockcliffe today. So is he fully fit already now?
Gestede was training with others today. So he is fit. Any other injury problems from last season? I cannot recall.
Up the Boro!
Jarkko
In my mind, Gestede being fit is an injury problem.
RR once commented to me that we could envy the leadership of Newcastle. I still doubt that.
The Echo writes today:
It is hard to imagine any appointment made by Ashley will make up for the loss of Benitez in the fans’ eyes, and the club’s support has uttered as much in a statement.
The Newcastle United Supporters’ Trust stated: “The inability of the club to strike a deal with a hugely popular and charismatic manager is a blow the club might never recover from. It damages the football club, the city and region.”
This is what I mean. I rather have Gibbo who supports the club financically as much as the rules allow. And I don’t mind having a manager, too who cares for the club. Up the Boro!
Ashley runs his club as a commercial business and isn’t subject to indulgent whims. Everything has a price and a value, if the club can’t sustain or afford it it doesnt get it. That applies to wage demands be it from Managers or Players.
I suspect that two clubs a few miles down the A19 are starting to follow suit. Its not pandering to fans unrealistic expectations and leaves them flat but their club is still in the Premiership and even when they went down in fairness he held his nerve and they went straight back up.
If he splashed £200 million how higher up the Premiership would they finish, two, three maybe four places and risk putting the club into the financial mire?
I’m not a fan of him personally but I fully understand his stance. The Toon army want Champions League football but how likely is anyone to challenge the top 6 and how much will they have to gamble to do it with zero guarantees?
I’m really enjoying the Cricket World Cup, but there is now a distinct possibility with Pakistan now having beaten New Zealand today that England may not now qualify for the Semifinals. If Pakistan win their two remaining matches against Afghanistan and Bangladesh as expected, England will have to beat both unbeaten India and New Zealand if they are to qualify for the Semifinals, a really tall order. If they manage that they will probably have to beat India again to reach the Final.
Ken
It does look like England may miss out on the semi finals of the CWC and they will have no one to blame than themselves.
Some may accuse them of arrogance, I dont think that is the case. They have played some dumb cricket.
Ian/Ken
There are some parallels with following Boro and the England Cricket team. Just when things are looking good, there’s the inevitable let down. With the ashes to come, the timing couldn’t be worse. It doesn’t look like Yorkshire are going to win the County Championship either.
As the perennial pessimist, it’s looking like I won’t be disappointed.
Ken/Ian/Steely
Yes I agree with all of that and it doesn’t factor in the good old English weather! 😎
Another entry in the “you couldn’t invent it” department, we are fighting it out with three other idiot clubs for some Scottish player who had a good season in their second division. He is twenty seven (and eleven months)and has one year on his deal.
Please tell me why we would be signing any Scottish player, the English leagues are a desert when it comes to Scottish players, and that is for a reason. They are not producing them (no, I have no idea why that should be) but you are betting the farm when paying good money for them, and at 27? , my head hurts.
We protest on this blog, we are told that they have reformed, but nothing changes.
The foreign lad who was going to sign for us, then they tried their luck ringing around their mates, then it went pear shaped.
When are they going to get tough with these people, if the agreement was in place why was no paper shoved in their hand and a “sign here” demand made.
If they do not sign then tell the world that you are not going to sign him because you are not sure about him and have withdrawn from the deal.
That would cause a massive flutter in the other clubs, and might cause them to accept a lower fee.
Always strike back, they will treat you with respect next time.
Who have we signed from scotland now? I have totally missed that transfer ….
UTB!
No one Jarkko. Plato needs to stop clicking on clickbait headlines or he might actually spontaneously combust.
It’s pointless to get your knickers in a twist over speculative gossip.
I will be disappointed if McNair for the same money we paid for him.
I would not blame him leaving for more money and a “promotion” but MFC should play hard ball a little. An extra million would help the cause.
GHW
Unfortunately it was the club who had a moan about the young foreign player who was “persuaded” to change his mind after a deal had been agreed. So quite why we should think that is fine and dandy escapes me.
Now to the second point, we have a quite horrible love of overage, overpriced players, so I am very worried when the stars align, i.e. Overage, contract ending. Poor club very keen on getting a very large sum of money (for Scottish football) and we are involved, it does not bode well.
Just a little snippet I’ve come across in the First Division. It was Boxing Day 1963 when 66 goals were scored in the 10 matches. John Webster read out the following results on the BBC as follows:-
Blackpool 1 Chelsea 5
Burnley 6 Manchester United 1
Fulham 10 Ipswich Town 1
Leicester City 2 Everton 0
Liverpool 6 Stoke City 1
Nottingham Forest 3 Sheffield United 3
Sheffield Wednesday 3 Bolton Wanderers 0
West Bromich Albion 4 Tottenham Hotspur 4
West Ham United 2 Blackburn Rovers 8
Wolverhampton Wanderers 3 Aston Villa 3
Probably some players had too much Christmas pudding, but it is still the highest number of goals scored on the same day in the top league since the Second World War.
Two days later the reverse fixtures were played with the following results:-
Aston Villa 2 Wolverhampton Wanderers 2
Birmingham City 1 Arsenal 4 (Boxing Day fixture postponed)
Blackburn Rovers 1 West Ham United 3
Bolton Wanderers 3 Sheffield Wednesday 0
Chelsea 1 Blackpool 0
Everton 0 Leicester City 3
Ipswich Town 4 Fulham 2
Manchester United 5 Burnley 1
Sheffield United 1 Nottingham Forest 2
Stoke City Liverpool (postponed)
Tottenham Hotspur 0 West Bromwich Albion 2
Some big turnarounds at Blackburn, Ipswich and Manchester United, with Tottenham failing to beat West Bromwich Albion after drawing away on Boxing Day.
I would be rather disappointed if McNair was to leave without giving him a run in his favored position.
Surely now that Besic and Mikel have left and the Pulis tactics are about to change, he deserves a spot in midfield.
He did well at Sunderland in a poor team and has been good at international level.
why do Boro buy players and then “square peg” them?
Were else will we find a replacement for 3-4 million and only 24 years old.
Talk of selling him for less than we paid is frustrating before we have had a good look at him. we cant be that skint.
I hope it is all “click bait”
Our central midfielders are Howson, Saville, McNair, Wing and Clayton. Howson, Saville and McNair are all basically identical: box to box midfielders with a good engine and (in the previous clubs) a record of scoring a decent number of goals. If we can sell one of them in a bidding war for more than we paid and replace him with a different kind of midfielder or a winger then that seems like a good thing.
Yes, I think we there is definitely scope for one of or centre-midfielders to go, without needing a direct replacement. It should absolutely not be Wing and I think we probably need Clayton as the only natural holding midfielder. Of the others, McNair is probably the most saleable at an acceptable price.
More than happy for him to stay. Won’t complain if he goes for £5m or more.
We are having similar issues with the Australian national anthem “Advance Australia Fair” a few Aboriginal players refusing to sing it. Claims that it do’s not represent them in anyway, unlike the Kiwi anthem. My view is that it is a terrible anthem and needs to be changed.
As for England I went to a few England games when Don Revie was Manager and Land of Hope and Glory was played, it certainly got your heart pumping ala the French one.🇬🇧
P.S. Ken thank you for your many contributions and great reading each and everyone, long may you be a most valued part of our ragged “Band of Brothers”
True about the cricket some very dumb tactics.
Anyone who watches Rugby League knows what a tough game it is. But in last night’s Hull derby Joe Westerman, a former Cas lad by the way, dislocated his kneecap after a heavy tackle. In terrible pain he then slapped it a few times till it went back in place before continuing playing. Sadly for him however, his side went on to lose the game.
What’s going on at the Boro. Graeme Lee Boro’s U23 Coach gave a 6 minute interview on the the MFC website in a Teesside accent without once using the interjection ‘yer know’, yet Phil Tallentire, a professional journalist, annoyingly uses it several times in one sentence. Just saying like!
deleriad…..whilst I agree with your thoughts on McNair, Howson and Savile, I would prefer to keep McNair of the three.
Wing is different to those 3 and Clayton, is he still good enough for the holding role?
I think Paddy would produce more in goals and assists., However nobody is going to pay much for Howson at 30/31, and with Saville we would have to take a big hit.
So, if we need the cash to invest in another wide player or possibly another more creative player alongside Wing, then it will be McNair I am afraid. The other two will bring no interest from other clubs.
Pedro, I agree. I think both Clayton and Howson are good senior pros but you wouldn’t want them both starting and neither is going to attract a hefty transfer fee. I can see either Saville or McNair as a back-up for Wing; they both seem like decent Championship players. McNair looks like he might have a bit more potential than Saville but at this point, if there’s a chance of making a profit on him I would go for it. Apart from Wing, I think all our central midfielders are replaceable.
Apparently people use the words ‘you know’ or ‘yer know’ for two reasons. Either they are unskilled in the art of public speaking, consequently they use it as a ‘filler’ in a sentence. The other reason is that the speaker wants a feedback from his audience or interviewee to reinforce to him/her that he/she is doing a good job of conveying the message intended, pointing at his/her lack of self confidence. I do find it annoying though as when writing, one wouldn’t use it at all.
Another thing that annoys me also is referring to young people as kids. I would have felt insulted to be referred as a kid when in my late teens or early twenties. It sounds so condescending. Why not just call them teenagers or young men/women?
Martin O’Neil sacked now.
That’s 30 managers since Brian Clough in 1993.
In the current Cricket World Cup India are the only unbeaten team at the moment, and the only team to have beaten Australia who in turn have accounted for Bangladesh among their 6 wins. Bangladesh have beaten the West Indies amongst their 3 wins who in turn have only won one match, and that was against Pakistan who are the only team to have beaten New Zealand who include South Africa among their 5 scalps. South Africa have today walloped Sri Lanka who beat England a week ago. Of course England have accounted for Afghanistan amongst their 4 wins which would complete the circle except for the fact that they have lost each of their 7 matches so far including their match against India.
Now I know we said that the Championship was a strange League last season where any team was capable of beating any other, but nevertheless although maybe we might conclude that any of the above cricket countries are also capable of beating each other, what odds now on England beating India in view of the above results?
Watching the brief training session today , will someone tell me the point of using 4ft goalposts and have players score in them as part of a finishing drill.
No wonder they can’t finish in games ,
Wouldn’t it be better to have them spread to the width of a proper goal size and then the player gets it in his mind the angle and width so he automatically knows were to place the ball.
Use 2 ft goals spread them goal ,width a part
PS
Why do I keep getting knocked off,and as to resign in?
I’ve lost comments ,frustrating ?
So Boro are going to Austria soon.
Except Dael Fry and Ste Walker who will stay behind for treatment on injuries. This is to answer my earlier question about who is fit and who is not.
Gutted that Fry won’t be starting the season as the main centre back now. Up the Boro!
Jarkko
Howson also not going as wife is expecting.
Fry may still be fit for the start of the season just not ready in his recovery plan to take part in on the grass training yet.
He was in the gym at the beginning of the week when the squad returned to training so fingers crossed he will be fully fit soon. 😎
Just read that Villa have also done a “Derby” ..selling Villa Park to themselves which will let them meet FFP.
Mr Gibson will be apoplectic. This football malarkey will not be doing his health any good.
Pedro
The next thing you will know someone will convert debts in to shares for the parent company.
Ian, wasn’t that before FFP and I am sure Birmingham might be a little miffed !
Come on BORO.
Yes it was, but don’t miss a chance to have a go at SG
Think I’d be tempted to call their bluff and “sell” the Riverside to Bulkhaul Holdings for a rumoured £50 Billion and see if SG gets any nibbles from the EFL over Fair Play. Its clear FFP is being ignored and fiddled albeit within loopholes that you could drive a double decker bus through rendering it totally unfit for purpose. Problems come when Villa get relegated and don’t bounce back up again and then the fun starts unless you are a Villa fan of course, same goes for Derby.
You can only sell your stadium once.
Then what, sell the training HQ, the car park or last seasons training bibs.
Could we not sell Gestede to Bulkhaul for £40 million and buy him back for a quid. (a quid may be a tad expensive)
Why didnt we sell Downing to the transport company for £xxx and then release him on a free, we would have been OK for FFP for years.
Keith lamb could have sold his soul, Gazza could have sold his liver and Monk could have sold his Granny.
RR, you have grossly undervalued the Riverside, at least 500 billion.
Sounds feasible Billy
£1 for Gestede, yer jokin arn’t yer!
FFP.
FFS.
Re RR’s post at 12.04.
Then Bulkhaul could sell it to an offshore company SG Enterprises Ltd in the Bahamas or even Jersey the directorship/ownership of which will remain a mystery!
This is all getting silly, it’s about time we had some football so we could all have a good moan, I mean discussion! 😎
Seem to recall the Barcodes had an interesting arrangement with a Company in Gibraltar a few years back. Creative accountancy is nothing new just look at the tax returns of certain Political individuals. The very same individuals get very tetchy defensive over such matters then sit and make judgement on the rest of us proclaiming that it isn’t illegal and that they an their corporations have done nothing wrong and indeed legally they are of course correct.
Chris,
Financial Fair Scam, I like that. . .
UTB,
John
Had an interesting chat with Neil Maddison for half an hour this morning talking about various players
It’s his opinion that Martin Braithwaite is the most skilful and best player in the Boro squad and if he can get his head right and have the support of the Boro players and fans he could be an important asset to the team playing alongside Assambalomga
We also talked about the youngsters and Tav it’s a make or break season for him
He’s off to watch young Currie in Scotland next week who’s been injured for the past year but does possess pace.
He said also to watch out for Connor Malley making a breakthrough this season as well
Excuse spelling etc writing this in bright sun reflecting off 📺 screen
OFB
Maddo also though JW deserved a chance as he knows all the players throughout the club
He felt that if the crowd were patient that it could turn out to be a great appointment
OFB
Maddo also said he talked to JW a few times during last season and thought a more forward and pressing type play on the front foot would be a good fit for Boro
Sorry for the post in dribs and drabs I’m writing this in between Mrs OFB going in and out of various clothes shops whilst I’m stood outside!
Ring any bells ?
OFB
ofb, Woodgate would have been my last choice for the Boro managers position but he is now in the chair and as with every previous manager, he will have my full support.
Come on BORO.
I did suggest to Maddo that he should be prepared to take over as manager mid season !
He just grinned ….
OFB
I don’t think Maddo should get the job but I’d happily get behind him if he did.
OFB….Whilst I can agree that Braithwaite is probably the clubs most gifted player, he is the most disruptive.
Sorry but if can move him on, we should.
https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/enes-mahmutovic-heads-to-the-netherlands
Apparently needs to develop quite quickly as when he was on loan at Yeovil last season he didn’t spend much time on the pitch.
Biggest concern is that he lets the game go on around him without being involved
OFB
He clearly didn’t like TP’s tactics (as most of us didn’t in the end), is that disruptive? I know we have TP’s version of events but he does seemingly have an engagement problem with most of his Strikers at his Clubs. Paddy was sold on for reasons which I am still very sceptical (and bitter) about and Britt was regularly singled out for particular attention when Pulis’s side had just stunk out the Riverside.
Maybe Braithwaite done what I and I suspect many other on here would do and tell him to shove it and ply my trade elsewhere? When he joined I seem to recall him being open and friendly with fans and even posing for a Parmo which surely makes him an adopted Teessider. I suspect that there was a bit of something else going on behind the scenes at the time and being a skilful player instead of just a big, tall aaard man didn’t help his cause.
There again maybe the stories about his Wife not being impressed with the lack of sunshine up North and her family elsewhere in France didn’t help either.
It seems that the larger clubs are buying young talent and then loaning them straight back to the selling club. As it’s doubtful that we will hang on to Fry, perhaps that’s the best course of action open to MFC.
Something going on with Fry ? Seems strange left behind after months of re hab ,
Didn’t he train the first few days
He took part in the tests done during the first couple of days. Then continued his work to get fit, me thinks.
He injureds his hamstring in spring time.
Up the Boro!
Reference Fry, let’s not read things that aren’t there, it could be that the medical staff believe that the training they are doing in Austria (including the friendly) is a bit too early in this stage of his rehabilitation.
Come on BORO.
Probably better for Fry to stay where he is and continue rehab rather than some form of boot camp.
Frank Lampard missed training at Derby County this morning, just saying.
Ian, Derby have agreed for Frank to miss Monday and Tuesday while he sorts out his contract with Chelsea.
Come on BORO.
Have you ever thought where Football Clubs got their nicknames from? Some are fairly obvious named after the colour of their shirts such as the blues, reds or lillywhites or in some cases after birds such as magpies and in the case of Norwich City canaries, but others have some interesting beginnings as the following selection shows.
Starting in alphabetical order take Arsenal. We all know what an arsenal is, hence ‘the Gunners’, but the Club wanted to be known alphabetically as top of the list, hence they discarded their original name of Woolwich Arsenal after the original Accrington folded and gave them that prime position. They must have been miffed when Bournemouth and Boscombe Athletic decided to change their name to plain AFC Bournemouth in 1972.
Barnsley are known as ‘the Tykes’, a tyke being a dog and a Yorkshire expression for a young child prone to mischief. Up to the 1950s though they were known as ‘the Colliers’ which sounds more fitting for this former coal mining town.
Bolton Wanderers are known as ‘the Trotters’ because their original home Burden Park was situated next to a piggery from where their players had to ‘trot’ through to reach their ground.
Bradford City are known as ‘the Bantams’ as it best describes the claret and amber colour of their shirts.
Bury are known as ‘the Shakers’. This dates back to 1896 when they were a force to be reckoned with and before a game with highflying Everton when their Chairman John Ingham was reported as saying “We’re going to give them a good shaking”. The boast was picked up by their fans, although the match ended in a 1-1 draw.
Charlton Athletic are known as ‘the Addicks’ because a local fishmonger Arthur ‘Ikey’ Bryan would reward the players with Addick (haddock) and chips when they won.
Chelsea were sometimes referred to as ‘the Pensioners’ after the old home for retired servicemen called Chelsea Pensioners whose attire is a bright red tunic. Surprisingly though the Football Club play in blue, and more recently are just called ‘the Blues’.
Crystal Palace are called ‘the Eagles’ after the American bald eagle apparently flies from one end of the stadium to the other before every home match.
Darlington have always been known as ‘the Quakers’ a religious group who once had a historical influence in the town. The black tapered top hat with a red trim appears on the town’s coat of arms.
Derby County known as ‘the Rams’ refers to the former woollen industry of the 1800’s.
Everton known colloquially as ‘the Toffeemen’ is near ‘Old Mother Noblett’s Toffee Shop’.
Exeter City known as ‘the Grecians’ because of the Grecian Gate within the City Walls separates residents in nearby Sidwell Street from the rest of the City.
Huddersfield Town are known as ‘the Terriers’ after a terrier pool, a kind of raffle system where people were able to win cash prizes in return for injecting cash into the club in 1969.
Leicester City are known as ‘the Foxes’ after the rural pastime of fox hunting.
Lincoln City are known as ‘the Imps’ following a 14th century legend where two mischievous imps were purported by Satan to perform evil work in the Cathedral smashing tables and chairs.
Luton Town are called ‘the Hatters’ after the hat making trade in the town.
Macclesfield Town are known as ‘the Silkmen’ after the former silk mills.
Newport County were christened ‘the Exiles’ in 1989 when they were forced to play their home matches in the English town of Moreton-in-Marsh, 80 miles away.
Northampton Town are known as ‘the Cobblers’ after the shoe making industry in the town.
Peterborough United have been called Posh’ since 1920 when their manager Pat Tirrel advertised for ‘posh players for a posh team.
Portsmouth are sometimes referred to as ‘Pompey’ which is slang for a prison. There is a naval prison in the town.
Reading are nicknamed ‘the Royals’ being situated in the Royal County of Berkshire, although not the County Town.
Rotherham United are called ‘the Millers’ after the Hovis Mill near to their former ground of Millmoor.
Sheffield United are called ‘the Blades’ after the cutlery industry in the city.
Sheffield Wednesday are called ‘the Owls’ after the ‘albus’ white owl colour of their cricket flannels when the club used to play its matches on Wednesdays before becoming a Football Club.
Southampton were formerly Southampton St Mary’s, hence their nickname of ‘the Saints’.
Stoke City are known as ‘the Potters’ after the several potteries in the area.
Sunderland have two nicknames ‘the Black Cats’ after a loyal volunteer militia fled from a howling black cat in 1805. The nickname of Mackem or Mak’em is a local accent not to be confused with Geordie.
Tottenham Hotspur’s nickname of Spurs is said to be derived from Harry Hotspur, a famous horse rider who used to dig his spurs into his horse to make it go faster.
Walsall are known as ‘the Saddlers’ due to the manufacture of leather saddles in the town.
West Bromich Albion were given the nickname of ‘the Baggies’ as they were the last famous club at the time to wear breeches when most clubs adopted shorts, though called knickers at the time.
Wycombe Wanderers are known as ‘the Chairboys’ after the manufacture of furniture in the town.
Yeovil Town are called ‘the Glovers’ after the glove making industry in the town.
As can be seen many of the nicknames are derived from the past and present industries of their areas. England was said by Napoleon I believe, to be a Country of Shopkeepers. But the old Country also once had a plethora of industries now remembered in the nicknames of its Football Clubs. Incidentally the word ‘Albion’ is an old name for Great Britain.
Ken,
A good post and if I may the origin of some of badges is interesting too. Food for further thought perhaps. Sue and I were curious about the Portsmouth badge and that goes back to naval links with Turkey many years ago for the Islamic influence. Mind you my memory may be playing up. Super post though and I enjoyed the read.
Keep well.
UTB,
John
Field Marshal Bernard ‘Monty’ Montgomery was elected Honorary President of Portsmouth FC during the Second World War. He had started to support them as his headquarters at Southwick were just on the outskirts of the town.
I’d like to know the rules regarding signing young foreign players, outside of Europe ,seems the German clubs get them from all over same in Spain etc,
Cost nothing to bring in and develope ,you just might hit a couple of exceptional ones?
We have brought a few players in from outside Europe previously like Lee Dong Gook, Jaime Moreno, Afonso Alves and Carlos de Pena so it is clearly possible. Then there was a little un whose name escapes me. I think a lot of them qualify with dual nationalities although I doubt that very much with Lee Dong Gook.
RR
I’m thinking under eighteens and the like.
Being honest I guessed that GT but my thinking is that if we struggle to pick them in their twenties then heaven hep us if our Scouts are picking them in their teens!
There is an advantage in that the mistakes are a lot cheaper with them provided they can find an Italian Grandmother or a German Grandfather etc. Mind you after Brexit (if it ever happens) the rules may be totally different and a Player from the Isle of Man may need to find a Granny from Grimsby!
Ken
thanks for a very interesting read, there are several clubs in the East Midlands.
Mansfield Town are known as the stags – a head of a stag is on their shirt. Sherwood Forest is very close by.
Chesterfield are known as the Spireites, the town is famous for its crooked Spire clearly visible from all the train and the bypass.
Burton Albion are known as the Brewers, drive past the town and there are three breweries – Bass, Marston and Ind Coope in days past.
Nottingham Forest are generally as Forest – Tricky Trees is the locals name for them.
Notts County are known as the Magpies just like our friends up the A19. Apart from being known as the oldest league club another claim to fame is the fact Juventus based their kit on County’s black and white.
Adding to Ken’s bit about Exeter City being called the Grecians, they used to be called St Sidwell’s (circa 1900) I believe from the area outside of the ancient City of Exeter walls. There was apparently a reinactment in 1726 in the town (I have no idea why?) of the siege of Troy in the town. Those who lived outside of the walls (part of which is the St. Sidwell’s area) were the Grecians and those inside were the Trojans. There was also a large Greek Orthodox Community in the St. Sidwell’s area which may also have had an influence. It’s all Greek to me!
nb. apologies for the spelling of “reinactment”
Ian
There are many more of course especially in Scotland. Here is a selection of some of them:-
Airdrieonians are known as ‘the Diamonds’ because of the large red chevron on their white shirts.
Alloa Athletic are known as ‘the Wasps’ because of their black and amber hooped shirts.
Arbroath are known as ‘the Smokies’ because of their production of smoked haddock, very tasty too. But I’ve also heard of them described as ‘the Red Lichties’ after the red lights which act as a guide to the harbour for the trawler men.
Ayr United are known as ‘the Honest Men’ from a quotation in Rabbie is Burns poem Tam ‘o Shanter’. Burns of course was born in nearby Alloway.
Berwick Rangers are known as ‘the Borderers’ because the town is in England.
Clyde are know as ‘the Bully Wee’ meaning good little club.
Forfar Athletic are known as ‘the loons’, a term used for young men from the Northeast of Scotland.
Heart of Midlothian were given the name of ‘Jam Tarts’ by soldiers returning from the First World War and is in fact Cockney slang picked up from Scottish soldiers returning from the Western front with cockneys.
Montrose are known as ‘the Gable Endies’ being a favourite part of their ground at Links Park.
Partick Thistle’s nickname of ‘the Jags’ is thought to be derived from a jag being a prickle which I support describes a thistle.
Queen of the South, the description given by a local poet from Dumfries are known as ‘the Doonhamers’ after the River Doon flowing back home.
Queen’s Park are called ‘the spiders’ probably because of the very thin horizontal stripes on their white shirts.
St. Mirren are called ‘the Buddies’ as everyone born in Paisley is known as a buddy or friend.
Stirling Albion are known as ‘the Binos’, shorter Scottish name for Albion.
Finally the term ‘The Old Firm Derby’ seems to have been given by journalists in the past as a meeting of old friends from Glasgow. Of course it is far from that nowadays, showing the most fierce rivalry in Scotland, if not in Europe.
Patrick Thistle should read suppose, not support.
Cowdenbeath are known as the Blue Brazil….
I get the us, but not the Brazil !
I get the “blue” … Is what that should have read
I see the Season Cards are back on sale. £530 is the cheapest for an adult and still no 18-21 cards available in the North Stand. The North Stand will decline even more this season as another bunch of young lads reaching 18 either fork out more than double what they were paying last year or move elsewhere in the ground or just simply go elsewhere on a Saturday.
Finding £530 is a huge wedge of cash in a deprived area like Teesside. Whether cheaper tickets would offset the profitability by attracting more punters is a moot point but it certainly won’t help. Still when the transfer in and outs are settled that may convince a few more and I’m sure that whatever happens there will be a positive spin on it all in the Gazette, “The 16,000 die hards are producing a far better and more enthusiastic atmosphere than last season”.
Powmill Naemore
There is a website http://www.blue-brazil.co.uk which explains how Cowdenbeath FC got that nickname.
If course “ The Boro” are one of the few clubs that are instantly recognisable by their nickname.
I notice though that Companies House still describes us as Middlesbrough Football and Athletic Company Limited which used to be displayed on the entrance of the old bob end at Ayresome Park. Could we have been called Middlesbrough Athletic? Does anyone have information on that?
Half time in the Women’s World Cup, losing 2-1 and to be fair they have deserved it.
In the office chatting to PauIa and said I was concerned about over blowing our chances, Superstitious I know but as she said if we didn’t inflate our chances there would be uproar because we were obsessed with men’s football.
She has a point.
The Finnish National team in football got a new nick name some 12 years ago when they played against Belgium in Helsinki.
An eagle owl landed on the ground and the referee Mike Riley had not option than stop the play for several minutes. Nobody knew how to get the owl away from the Helsinki Olympic Stadium.
The crowd obviously liked the extra show presented by the owl and team has ever since been caĺled eagle owls – huuhkajat in Finnish.
BTW, Jussi Jääskeläinen of Bolton was in goal for Finland but I do not think Sami Hyypiä (ex-Liverpoil) was captaining Finland anymore – his last name also means the same, a eagle owl.
I was in the crownd and everyone attending will remember the match for ever. And the name has really stuck to the team now. Here is a link to the match: https://youtu.be/Q_ad8Iu7AJI
Up the Boro!
PS. Ray Hodgson was the manager of Finland in the above match. UTB!
Looking bleak for the pussy cats, missed a penalty that was fair but needed half a day of VAR to be awarded. The decision had more pace than the penalty, if the keeper catch it by the belly button that is in Dong Gook territory. Then down to ten men.
I think they have been outplayed and it is fair. The one thing we have to remember that being in the top four is not a disaster, unpalatable but that is sport, If someone wins then someone has to lose.
Still time but hope kills you.
That’ll save me watching it later. I should know better than to come on here when I’m trying to avoid knowing results.
Sorry GHW.
Better team won. Why when we got a “get of jail card” did a defender take the penalty and not the best goal scorer we have?
Have to say I thought overall the English passing was poor. May be the heat did not help, but then it was the same for both teams. We played some good close passing but out of defence and the longer balls?
Ken, I think the nick name of MFC was written like The ‘Borough first. And was later shortened to The Boro and finally just Boro. But my memory might play tricks, though.
Do I remember correcty as I remember the town was not called Boro in the 1980’s. But now I often hear the town to be referred as Boro, too.
But as I have never lived locally, this might just be my feeling. Up the Boro!
Locals have usually referred to the town simply as the Boro when saying where they were going when shopping etc.
Brough, Burgh, Borough all mean the same thing but spelt differently dependant upon which period of history and whether it was Celtic or Anglo Saxon or even Viking origins etc. Traditionally it implies that they were once a fortified settlement of some sort but I’m guessing that “Fortified” has a wide definition from a mud mound and wooden poles in the ground to a fancy German Castle atop a fairytale mountain side.
There was a Roman lookout station on Huntcliff at Saltburn so its possible that there was something in the region dating from that era but Romans normally left evidence of some sort of their habitation and apart from Linthorpe pottery fragments there does seem a lack of it up Linthorpe Road. The earliest spelling was during the Anglo Saxon era from (410–1066) when it was recorded as “Mydilsburgh”.
My guess is that it most likely came to prominence with places such as York, Whitby and Durham being well established ecclesiastical centres we were quite simply the “Middle” of those areas and had some sort of settlement or refuge for travellers en route betwixt and between. The Town’s coat of arms comes from the Bruce family who were the Lords of the area in the Middle ages. There was a St. Cuthberts church back in the 600’s so that could have been the original fortification perhaps. In the 1100’s Robert Bruce, erected a church of St. Hilda of “Middleburg” to Whitby which apparently had four altars that is until old Henry started his shenanigans.
So whether it was Burg, Burgh or as it is today Brough we have always been the Middle one!
The area where I live used to be an Anglo Saxon and Roman settlement and I often find bits of old broken pots in the garden
When new houses were being built nearby they came across human ancient remains and pots some completely whole
They are located in the Dorman Museum and Mrs OFB and I have been to see them.
But when you’ve seen one old pot you’ve seen them all!
OFB
My recollection is that we were always known as THE Boro in the immediate postwar years and still is by most locals. However the national press nowadays seemed to have dropped the definite article and just call us Boro. I’m not aware of our ever being called Borough. But I’m still at a loss to understand why ‘Athletic’ ever came into our title.
Ken, I think it was written like the ‘Borough is some old material I have seen, with the ‘ in there.
My mate Austin from Great Ayton had some old hand programmes etc. where I must have seen the old writing form. He had a programme from the 1966 World Cup but also some even older programmes from Auresome Park.
Up the Boro!
Ken,
loved the bit on clubs nicknames and their meanings.
As a kid I remember WBA as the throstles, the nice little bird on their badge.
More recently they have been know as the baggies.
I thought this referred to their navy and white shirts resembling the now banned blue and white plastic carrier bags from Tesco.
This may have come as some form of insult from the other Midland clubs supporters, much like the Boro being called smoggies.
I worked with a Baggies fan a few years ago and he said that it came from the trousers they used to wear at the local Foundries (Baggy Trousers) when like us they used to have some heavy industry and jobs in the area. Villa used to taunt them with it much like Sunderland and us Smoggies as Billy says.
Rashford still only 21
170 appearances for united
32 England caps
just re-signed for alleged 200k per week.
At Boro he would still be cleaning Gestedes boots. he would have “a lot to learn”, he would “need to be patient”, “his time will come”.
Maybe a loan spell at Hartlepool to toughen up.
Ash Fletcher must have been rolling his eyes when he saw the news, he could have been on a similar journey to his ex team mate.
Hope JW is true to his word and gives the kids a fair go.
If your good enough your old enough.
Old Billy,
You missed out the half dozen cameos where Boro would bring him on for the last three minutes when we were losing 3 – 1 … Then we’d loan him out the next season.
UTB,
John
OK, I’ve been rather busy the last few weeks on my latest summer project building an aviary – some may think it’s a project for the birds and it’s probably hard to disagree on that.
Anyway, we’ll be heading off on our summer break at the end of the week down in southern Germany, but not quite as far as the Austrian mountains where the Boro players are busy working up a sweat.
But before I head off I thought I’d better post up a new discussion blog article just in case the current one reaches the 1000 mark before I return. With the start of the new season almost in sight and the need to start shaping the squad, it’s likely there will be much to ponder in the coming weeks.
So, here’s a look at where we currently are with new the coaching team and a squad that looks to have a few holes that need filling…
https://diasboro.club/2019/07/03/time-to-tune-up-the-squad/