Championship 2018-19: Week 24
Sat 12 Jan – 15:00: Birmingham v Boro
Tony Pulis has apparently had a nice chat with Steve Gibson to enquire over what his credit card limit could be for some late bargains in the January sales – though I think he put it in slightly different terms with the rather mundane sounding phrase “We have to work within the framework of the football club”. No doubt the world-weary chairman perhaps ended the conversation by taking a deep breath and speaking at almost incomprehensible speed his usual disclaimer to his manager:
“All purchases are made in good faith and cannot be returned if subsequently proved to be faulty or not deemed fit for purpose. All contracts are subject to medical approval and age restrictions can apply. The purchaser reserves the right to withdraw from the deal at any time and is not responsible for being unable to reach an agreement on agent’s fees. This is a promotional offer and your job may be at risk if you can’t keep up the repayment of points. Terms and conditions apply.”
Nevertheless, it seems Tony could be looking at the man much further upstairs for divine intervention this time round in the transfer market as he declared “I’m hoping and praying we can get a couple in that will improve us.” I’m sure many of the Boro faithful will say Amen to that but it may start to sound like man who is giving an ever so slight impression of being a somewhat desperate after the disappointment of the summer business. Besides, Pulis has just gone there after admitting that he’d been “desperate” to finally sign a player with pace following sealing the loan deal of van La Parra. He has therefore maybe already played the overly-keen hyperbole card a little too early in the window and has subsequently left himself with only “I’m begging you” followed by “pretty please” in terms of displaying increased leverage to potential signings. It’s possible Tony will once again resort to inventing his own phrases like “leg beater” as he did when describing the pacey man from Huddersfield – perhaps Boro followers should start preparing themselves for Connor Wickham to be described as a “big ballsy bacon saver” after Ashley Fletcher heads on loan to Hull.
Talking of less than sizzling Danish offerings, Martin Braithwaite has had his loan move to Spanish La Liga outfit Leganés confirmed this week after promises that the unsettled forward would get his head down turned out to be nothing more than porkies. Following the collapse of his last-minute move in the summer, Braithwaite’s desire to play for a big club has finally been realised and he’s looking forward to playing in front of heaving full houses of 12,450. Leganés or to give them their full name Club Deportivo Leganés, S.A.D. are located in the south of Madrid and are managed by former Southampton manager Mauricio Pellegrino – though while I’m not sure what S.A.D. actually stands for it sounds like it may be something Middlesbrough should consider adding to their club name too in order to fully reflect the default mood of the supporters.
You may be interested to learn that Leganés are nicknamed Los Pepineros, which apparently means ‘The Cucumber Growers’ and may explain why their initial interest in signing the Dane in the summer was cool – although it’s possibly not a nickname that lends itself to football chanting and perhaps their fans wouldn’t enthusiastically sing “We love you Cucumber Growers we do, We love you Cucumber Growers we do” much in the same way Boro fans would be compelled. With regard to the financial aspects of the deal, it’s been suggested that because of their low stadium capacity, Leganés are unlikely to be paying Braithwaite’s full wages (rumoured to be a lot more than he deserved) and Boro are still possibly stumping up half of them. However, it should be noted they actually received €76m in prize money last season before sponsorship income is added to their less than substantial gate receipts, which probably makes them wealthier than any Championship club. Anyway, after two forced January exits, any chance that the Dane has a future at Boro beyond the summer are probably as close to zero as any very small number less than miniscule proffered.
The key to January will be whether the club have discovered how to attract the right kind of players to Teesside. Since his arrival, the Boro manager has apparently been busy behind the scenes bringing together all the strands of the recruitment network into a coherent strategic unit with the aim of identifying inexpensive talent before rivals do – it may sound a perfectly sensible approach, though cynics may see this as nothing more than an aspirational soundbite.
According to the paper trail from Bulgaria (that’s the country not the Womble), the latest target to appear on Boro’s wanted list is a young forward called Despodov. Amateur etymolgists among the Boro faithful could be forgiven for thinking that the meaning of his name sounds unerringly in English like ‘Disposed of’ and may initially jump to the conclusion that CSKA simply want rid. But not so fast, the £5m-rated Kiril Despodov appears to be highly sought after and has already scored ten goals this season, which potentially makes him even more of a bargain than the last goal-scoring signing Saville.
To avoid any confusion, I should make it clear that the new Boro recruitment team is not based on the Wombles desire for picking up rubbish or is even being headed by Bungo himself – although others have occasionally voiced the alternative opinion that with regard to some of the deals in past it has sometimes given an impression of being run by Muppets instead. Incidentally, like all old favourites, the Wombles were recently rebooted with the voice of Tobermory played by hardman Ray Winstone – which perhaps may shock children of a delicate nature when he shouts “Oi Orinoco, start picking up that litter you slag!” In case anyone is unfamiliar with the character Tobermory, his profile states: “He is patient and steadfastly positive and a strong supporter of most any endeavour the young wombles embark upon.” – so basically a bit like Tony Pulis but without the cuddly exterior.
Whatever the characters involved in recruitment, many supporters at the Riverside would love to see a big name arrive on Teesside but rumours of potential interest in Joshua Erowoli Orisunmibare Oluwaseun Maja from Sunderland was perhaps not quite what they had in mind. Still, the Black Cats striker has scored a credible 14 in 22 appearances this season in League One – though following the 5-0 thrashing of Peterborough that may not be enough to impress Tony Pulis as he seems to rate goals against third tier opposition as being of less significance. The Boro manger was not getting carried away as he tried to keep a lid on the over-emotional element who had witnesses the club’s biggest victory in four years: “We’re playing against a League One side, we’re not playing against a top Championship side. So for as much as I’m delighted and pleased, there’s levels… we have to take everything in context.” Although for many long-suffering supporters the context was finally witnessing a goal-fest at the Riverside rather than an unpalatable diet of dreary low-scoring performances.
Tony Pulis may have a point, the Boro faithful shouldn’t suddenly start expecting to see their team play exciting attacking football like we did in the cup games against the inferior opposition of Peterborough and Burton. To do so could risk Boro being on the end of a heavy defeat against better quality opposition such as the likes of Aston Villa. Although having said that, it’s possible it may have slipped the Boro manager’s mind that his team failed to score against previous League One cannon-fodder Burton after adopting less adventurous tactics and meekly lost the tie. He may also recall his cautious ponderous side were recently thumped 3-0 at home to Villa. So it’s surely a case of finding the right balance and while few are urging him to go all Kevin Keegan, the opposition may in fact be more wary of Boro if they started seeing a few more results in the Peterborough bracket. Up until that point the message his side were giving was that if you manage to score against us you probably won’t lose and could even win as Boro have only scored more than one goal 4 times in the last 15 games – though never more than two.
As Boro head to Garry Monk’s Birmingham on Saturday, it’s perhaps unlikely that Tony Pulis will opt to field three strikers from the off. Although it certainly would show intent and at least surprise the former Boro manager but few observers would be surprised to see a return to business as usual in the safety-first Championship campaign. One player who should be first on the teamsheet is Lewis Wing after his second-half introduction transformed the game with his range of passing, vision and forward momentum – not to mention his goal threat. Boro now have a playmaker who must be the envy of many teams in the Championship and it would be unthinkable that he can now be overlooked by his manger.
It’s going to be possibly one of the hardest team selections of the season for Tony Pulis to make as despite his pragmatic view of the 5-0 thrashing of Peterborough, he must know he has decisions to make. He may even be tempted to give Ashley Fletcher another rare start before contemplating his exit as it would appear unduly hasty to curtail his Boro career at the point where he finally started looking the part. Whether Rajiv van La Parra, or ‘Raj’ as he’s called by the Boss, is ready to start will depend on his match fitness – though Tony’s cautious nature may see Stewart Downing begin instead. The other decision will be who from his plethora of midfield option will he turn too? His old favourites of Besic and Howson have not really delivered often enough to continue to make them first choices – though Howson may get the nod as right wing-back if van La Parra starts on the bench. Pulis is also a fan of tough-tackling Saville and has generally deployed Clayton as his defensive midfielder. In addition, Paddy McNair showed in the Cup he’s also a viable option in midfield and even Leadbitter added leadership and a different dimension. Whoever gets the nod, the name of the game is picking up the points and trying to keep ahead of the play-off contenders and staying hot on the heels of the top two.
Birmingham currently sit top of the 8-game home form table with 17 points and a +9 goal difference – likewise, Boro sit second and just one point behind Norwich in the 8-game away form table with 15 points. Garry Monk’s side are just outside the play-offs at the moment in eighth spot and will see the game against Boro as an opportunity to narrow that gap. Interestingly, both teams share the same goal difference with the Blues having scored and conceded ten more goals. On paper this should be a close game and it may be a case of whether either of managers prefers not to lose rather than win. After the hectic festive schedule, January is a much more sober month with just two Championship games and also no midweek match until mid-February. Most of the action will probably take place off the pitch as managers shuffle their packs in preparation for the business end of the season – it’s therefore important Boro remain focussed on picking up points to keep them well placed should others falter.
Excellent Werder, it has an almost Orinoco flow to it….
Look to home when considering your moves in the transfer market. Yes, I do mean tidy up the Wing situation, he cannot be left on his October contract, and it needs doing right now, and think big. That way us fans get to see him take us into the top two of this league, while watching a star, we will worry about what comes later. If we also take care of Tav. and Fry we might be getting somewhere. A bitof restraint in the market would be nice.
Another peach of an article Weder, had me chuckling with the Womble references!
Maybe TP has been listening to the lyrics and will be picking up the pieces and making them into something new.
Things that the everyday folk leave behind.
Just hope we don’t pick up anymore rubbish!
UTB
Thanks and I can see you’re familiar with their mission statement…
Plato, Lewis Wing is contracted for another 3 years after this season, how long a contract do you expect MFC to give him and as we have seen with Braithwaite, contracts mean nothing when the players head is turned.
Come on BORO.
Emil
As his first contract(serious) you and I can work out that it will be way out of line with the market rate for a player of his standard, his attraction is pretty obvious to both the power brokers and the bottom fishers.
As part of the talks we would obviously extend his contract, whilst making him a very happy young man financially.
It is very bad to give long contracts to poor players. It is very good to give long contracts to very good players.
Now let me think, what has been our policy up to now? Answers on a postcard.
As for worrying about the big clubs hunting for players of his class, they always have and they always will. So we should study the methods of Southampton in like cases, and copy, because they work.
I think the general policy is to state the price, then shut up. They come round after a while.
It’s only the used car market, only on a slightly grander scale.
Dirties at home moved to a 1 o’clock kick off at the request of the boys in blue according to MFC website.
Less time for me to, ahem, “socialise” before kick off. Back home on the Friday for 3 weeks and can’t wait.
Vielen Dank für Ihr letztes Schreiben. Ich hoffe, Sie machen Ihre Deutschprüfung gut
OFB
Danke – Alles ist möglich.
I’ve been studying the technical terms around the various levels of German government and how the political system functions, the 39 districts of Lower Saxony and the names and roles of other public bodies that apparently I should know to be a good citizen.
BTW Here’s an easy example to start off…
Welche Lebensform ist in Deutschland nicht erlaubt?
A. Mann und Frau sind geschieden und leben mit neuen Partnern zusammen.
B. Zwei Frauen leben zusammen.
C. Ein allein erziehender Vater lebt mit seinen zwei Kindern zusammen.
D. Ein Mann ist mit zwei Frauen zur selben Zeit verheiratet.
I suppose a look at the local politics of Middlesbrough Stockton Darlington Hartlepool and Redcar Councils of why they sold an Airport for £500 k and gave money away hand over fist year on year would prove to be a good UK analogy !
Good luck
OFB
What about a man meets a woman and is married to her for fifty years and still inflicts torture on her by taking her to see his beloved football team which causes anxt amd stress? Inhuman isn’t it ?
OFB
Inhuman perhaps but not illegal 🙂
Me and Mrs Powmill have just invested in an “Eve” mattress which is about as close to option D as I get…
Jeepers! My guess would be D, as I assume bigamy is illegal in Germany. 😉
I’m not sure if bigamy is illegal in Germany but I suppose I could ask Mrs Werder – though which one…
Well Pulis won’t be talking to Steve Gibson today as SG is in London as a Director of the South Tees Development Corporation trying to buy back the land from SSI banks to create a new site for business to replace the old steel works.
If they are not successful then it will be compulsory purchased by the Teesside Mayor Ben Houchen
Good for the area and the Directors roles of STDC are unpaid
OFB
Regarding the transfer window ,or as its known at MFC ” Blind mans bluff”
If come February Downing, Howson, Clayton are running the midfield Friend is still left back, and Hugill is preferred to top scored Assombolonga,
Don’t hold your breath as far as promotion is concerned, I’m not being personal but these guys are past their expiry date, they are who they are .
We now need players who drive the team forward , are confident ,have the skill set to improve others around them,and are just basically better than the opposition, and dominate .
They are out there ,you just have to find them how come Celtic keep finding them . they find them from Holland, Egypt,Algeria Africa,
Good clubs are looking everywhere , and at reasonable prices,where are we looking? Championship, Div 1, and the like.
That’s my view anyway, I want success for Boro,but sometimes you have to take off the rose tinted glass and be critical if you see incompetence in certain areas.
Downing for one is well past it. But I guess the old pals act at the club will mean eventually he will be given a job within the club. Gary Monk did right in trying to sell him on also Karanka was less pleased when SG brought him back.
Another nice article especially the references to the Wombles and the truthful reference of “being run by a muppet”
As for Saturday, I expect a number of changes. However the back line may determine things with our injuries. Will it be a flat back 4 or wing backs?
One thing is certain TP’s favourites will be back with their mono paced side to side passing.
Upfront you would expect Hugill to return, as Brit’s second half performence will count for nowt as it was only Posh.
Will he fit in Wing somewhere as he accommodates SD in the middle perhaps?
Will he add an extra forward alongside Hugill and go for a win, (which we need) or play safe, keep the point and hope to nick a set piece goal to get all three.
Oh, forgot of course our goal scoring CB from Bristol is injured.
Thanks and I think it’s going to be tricky to second guess the team selection on Saturday – although it will probably be a back-three and a lone striker away from home with Hugill favourite.
Werder, as most managers after finding the solution to their misfiring forwards would stick with the solution, but not ours so expect the same as same as.
Bri.
I await with interest to see what he takes from the Peterborough game or whether he simply ignores it as an aberration.
I think it will be totally shelved and back to normal service. The after match comments regarding Peterborough only being a League 1 side was a window into his thinking.
Assuming that Shotton isn’t yet fit I think he will go with Howson as the RWB with Fry, Ayala and Batth as the three CB’s and Friend on the Left. Going with Howson as RWB leaves him an extra space in midfield hopefully for Wing but we are guaranteed to see Downing and Besic returning along with Clayts. VLP will like as not be on the opposite flank to Stewy and after his goal bonanza against Posh Britt up front, isolated as normal.
Hugill and Tav will be on the bench to rescue the game in the second half if it looks like we can’t bore Brum into surrender. For me Leads and Fletcher should be on the bench after their impressive showings last Saturday and I’d include McNair in that as well. I’m guessing that means Saville and Dimi (or Lonergan) for the last bench seats.
Another gem to lighten our week Werder, thank you.
I suppose looking East to (Uncle) Bulgaria is probably better than looking North to forge a team of men of steel as once did Cairngorm MacWomble the Terrible when he was in charge
I see it is now “official” that Ripley has joined PNE. Good luck to the lad, I hope he goes on to have a great career in the game, just not too good when he plays against us of course.
On other news the Internet is tittle tattling about Brentford quoting Boro and Villa £20M for Maupay which I doubt is going to happen considering his limited track record and the fact that we don’t play a system anything like Brentford’s and at 5ft 7″ isn’t a “Pulis Player”. If he did sign no doubt his scoring exploits would stop when he was played out on the wings.
Yes, good luck to Connor Ripley but it’s a pity that he never really had the chance at his home town club to show what he could do and earn a place in the first team. Whenever I’ve seen him on the television he has been excellent. Another home grown talent allowed to drift away?
It’s not even halftime and Man City are already 4-0 up against Burton. What an opportunity we missed,
64 minutes 7 – 0
Come on BORO.
Citeh usig the poor Brewers as target practice: 8-0! At least a Brit, young Phil Foden (sub), gets his name on the scoresheet. Lambs to the slaughter….
Watching City demolish Burton it strikes me a good news that the Boro are not on the receiving end of a thrashing because it would do nothing for the level of confidence in the club. There again, I suppose Boro might have won…………………..
City didn’t quite make double figures.
Come on BORO.
I’m surprised Pep Guardiola didn’t have more CB’s and Defensive Midfielders in his side against Burton tonight to keep things tight against the Brewers. He was lucky they didn’t catch his side on the break, go a goal behind and then struggle to get back into it. Hope he isn’t as Cavalier in the second leg as he may just live to regret it if Clough’s lads score early on!
If only Burton could have managed to get an away goal, it may be beyond them now.
Jesus, he scored four.
I wonder how we would have played yesterday. Up the Boro!
I think we dogded the bullet there . . .
Yes indeed but we did it by shooting ourselves in the foot against Burton.
Plenty to write about this week.
1. Aren’t we glad now that Boro lost to Burton Albion? I’m sure Boro would have put on a better display at the Etihad, but a 5-0 thrashing or worse would surely have been an embarrassment and put a dampener on the Second Leg.
2. What is the criterion for calling footballers legends? I’m with Bernie Slaven on this one. George Friend was a bargain buy, but will people be talking about him in 50 years time? It’s probably easier for strikers to be classed as legends, that’s why George Camsell, Mickey Fenton and Brian Clough are real legends. I’m not sure even Bernie himself can be classed as a legend. Great bargain and top goalscorer at the time, but a legend is someone who will be remembered at least 50 years later and I can’t see him being remembered for as long as that. Wilf Mannion and Juninho are still talked about today and will always be remembered for years to come, so they are true legends despite the fact that Juninho only played for a few seasons at Boro. Tim Williamson is worthy of legendary status despite the fact that like Camsell nobody alive today has seen either player play. George Hardwick is possibly the only left back to be classed as a legend, although Gordon Jones might be a borderline case, and Tony Mowbray might well be classed as a legend in years to come. As for midfielders, Graeme Souness certainly can be considered a club legend at both Boro and Liverpool, as Bryan Robson was certainly as a player. But ‘legend’ today is a much overused word and very few Boro players fall into that category in my opinion.
3. Local derbies and Yorkshire derbies are contentious descriptions. Leeds United certainly don’t consider matches against Boro as a derby match. Some Boro fans may think differently as whatever their respective positions in the league table, it’s a match that Boro fans always look forward to and this season is no exception. Leeds fans certainly since the Revie years have always considered matches against Manchester United a cross Pennine derby, but not by Man Utd fans. Same thing in Rugby League, Cas fans class Leeds Rhinos as a derby match, not so Rhinos fans where Bradford Bulls certainly was. Boro fans meanwhile have always considered matches against Newcastle and Sunderland as local derbies, whereas the fans of both these clubs do not. I guess Boro v Hartlepool would be a local derby to Boro fans, but they’ve never met in a league match and only once in a two-legged League Cup match.
4. So to sum up, very few Boro players will still have legendary status 50 years from now. Also Boro really don’t play any matches that can truly be called local derbies, but that’s not to say that of all the matches that Boro play, the ones against Sunderland, Newcastle and Leeds are the matches which Boro fans always want to win no matter what positions they hold in the League table.
Great piece again Werder. Love the image of “hardman” actor Ray Winstone voicing a Womble.
Looking at the home and away records of Brum and Boro it should be an exciting goal fest of a game. No not really only joking! A hard fought and close away win for the men in red.
Thank FAA – I think there’s likely to be a turf war on Wimbledon Common in the next series and it could get nasty when the Great Uncle Bulgarian mob get tooled up.
For Ken…
“Legend” is indeed a much overused word.
I like Mick McCarthy as much as any fan of his work for Ireland surely does, but I wouldn’t eulogise him like I would Arthur Fitzsimons, or Johnny Giles.
We do have our football *and* writing legends of course. Like in the North, Jackie Fullerton. And, perhaps more dubiously, Mr. Dunphy. (I’ve met Dunphy, mind, and he was as civil as they come. That was five years ago.)
I think it was Dunphy who says “No one does flattery like the Irish”. We do get immensely proud of our sporting heroes. Bill O’Herlihy made it his duty to report a Boro scoreline if an Irishman scored, like, say, Andy Townsend (who is from Kent!).
Which brings me to another story about the truly legendary (there’s that word again!) Irish presenting-and-punditry team: O’Herlihy, Dunphy and Giles. It is documented that Dunphy spent months trying to persuade RTE to enlist Giles on the Mexico ’86 panel, and got no joy, because Giles “wasn’t a performer” and would “bore the viewers”. Dunphy made a case for Giles based on the latter’s “quiet passion”, which in time would act as an invaluable counterpoint to Dunphy’s ranting and raving.
It didn’t work. That left Dunphy to make an ultimatum: “no John, no Eamon”. Three days before the tournament they gave in.
Of course, it worked. And one reason was that, in Dunphy’s words: “Bill (was) a consummate television pro. Although ostensibly acting the eejit, he (knew) exactly where the conversation should be heading, (knew) the right question and how to couch it… Bill got John talking about the games as if he were sitting in his own front room.”
O’Herlihy retired in 2014 after the World Cup in Brazil. A year later, on the morning of the play-off final, I awoke to hear the news of his passing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q03sqv2n7n8
Werder,
Really enjoyed that piece. Many thanks.
Don’t know whether to look forward to our meeting with MonksBrum or just to “take it as it comes”. We’ve got attacking talent to unleash, all right, the question is whether or not we’ll choose to unleash it or if we can depend on it. Given not only Pulis’s but also the managerial preference for players who won’t let him down rather than those who may or may not, I’m veering towards safety and nicking a 1-0 win, maybe 2-0. Though 2-0 is unlikely.
MonksBrum look like another one of those very useful, rather than outstanding, Championship outfits who have enough to find themselves among the chasing pack for the top but lack the quality and/or belief to take themselves that step further. Interestingly they’re on exactly the same amount of points as, if you believe the reports, soon-no-longer-to-be-AK’s Forest. The records and goal differences are identical. The Trees have just scored another goal. Even more interestingly McClaren’s QPR have the same amount of points as both, albeit with a far inferior goal difference.
Another ex of note is good old Lukas Jutkiewicz, who’s actually not even 30 yet. Still on course for his best season ever, having netted 10 in 26. But most, if not all, strikers are confidence players and after a spell of a goal a game for nine matches he hasn’t scored in the nine matches since.
My favourite LJ memory is still his double at Blackburn when they were top. We’d just been hammered by Blackpool (!) and everyone was glum, so it was a massive tonic. Had it not been for Ish Miller getting injured in the warm-up, though, he wouldn’t even have been on the pitch…
Thanks Simon, it’s hard to get too excited about playing against Monk as he was barely manager long enough to regard him as a significant ex-manager. It’s possible some of his ex-players may want to prove point but I’m struggling to think of those who he sidelined that Pulis brought back into the side – possibly Clayton though he never usually holds back in games.
As for unleashing the attacking talent on Saturday – we shall see…
George Friend? UP the Boro!
From what I have been reading this week people seem to think we should, more or less, put out the same side that beat first division Peterborough at the Riverside.
I would like to point out 5 facts about this coming fixture:
1. We are the away team at St Andrews.
2. Birmingham are 8th to our 5th.
3. Birmingham are only 4 points behind us.
4. Birmingham have scored 10 more goals than us.
5. Monk has a point to prove to Boro “fans” who wanted him out.
TP is in a “no win” position with some fans, if he starts Wing, Tavernier and Fletcher and we get turned over, he should have started with the seasoned players, likewise if he starts with Besic, Howson, Saville and we draw or lose he should have played the same side as the Peterborough game.
I am not going to out guess TP on his team selection as there is a number of factors that I am not privy to, which would have an influence on the starting eleven. If we all picked our starting eleven before Saturday, there is good chance they would all be different and God forgive but some could be the same as TP puts out. Birmingham away is not a forgone conclusion this is why TP made the comments after the Peterborough game trying to get fans to keep things in perspective.
Saying that, I am hoping for a win, willl not be too disappointed with a draw and it’s not the end of the world with a defeat.
Come on BORO.
I think it will be assambolonga and gestede, he wedged them into the team, the team won 5-0 how difficult can it be.
As for Wing and Tav. Rubbish. What do they know?
Thanks Werder for another superb article. Makes great reading always.
As for Saturday against GM’S side, everything points towards a draw.
Monk has done well at Birmingham. I wonder if we sacked him too early. Did Gibson pull the plug amongst other problems but was Monks dislike of Downing another key to his sacking ?
I think it was more to do with him throwing money about like a drunken sailor on shore leave (I should know😳), all presumably sanctioned by the chairman and then not appearing to know his best team or what tactics or formation to employ rather than his “dislike”of a certain player.
I appreciate he’s doing a good job with Brum but he’s reunited with his side kick Pep Cloet(sp) who was with him at Swansea where they did a good job for a while.
I don’t understand those who are jumping up and down for Tavernier to be a locked in starter. He had a great chance against Peterborough and didn’t deliver. He’s a definite talent but I’m not sure that it’s doing him any favours by constantly clamouring for him to start. I would expect him to be on the bench against Birmingham and available if we need to up the tempo with 25 minutes to go.
Wing on the other hand looks more and more like a real star in the making and I would expect him to start on Saturday. For me he does what Besic is trying to do but Wing does it better. I can see us playing a back four which frees up space for Wing, Saville and Clayton plus one other from Van La Parra, Besic, Howson and Downing. Hugill and Assombalonga together up front would be my pick although I can see TP going back to the lone striker and packing the midfield. Maybe Howson plus VLP as a free-to-roam support to Hugill. That’s if he’s fit.
Can I also note how disappointing out must be for some corrrespondents that Boro actually had a good win last week. They’re still finding any reason to attack TP. I just hope that things get worse and worse for them as we go on a run of victories.
UTB
selwynoz, reference your last paragraph, I have noticed that when Boro win or have a good performance then the number of posts drop dramatically compared to a defeat.
Come on BORO.
That post is what I’ve been thinking myself Selwynoz. The last paragraph in particular.
Selwynoz
All the protesters on TP’s back are very consistent, they all applaud when he plays Wing, Tav, and Fry, they scream in pain when he plays Assalomga and Gestede.
Their batting average is at present 100 per cent .
TP is at the moment through the floor.
Quite where we go from here is questionable, he can hardly stick to his guns and refrain from picking the three mentioned players, although it is noted that he has a record of selling any good players on the books.
He is on record as saying he will sort us out, so perhaps Wing had better look out.
Thanks Werder for another good read.
I expect TP to revert to the usual suspects (injuries permitting) with one up front and a packed midfield.
A tough game where we will do well to get a point but expect the blues to shade it 1-0 and our old boy LJ to inflict the damage. 😎🙁
As much as we like George Friend, he is not a club legend. An excellent servant for the club but more in the mould of Robbie Mustoe, like.
As Ken mentioned, from the past we have some clear legends:
– Tim Williamson with 610 appearances
– Bernie Slaven, goals, Holgate hero and radio person
– Harold Shepherson, deputy manager and World Cup winning coach
– Tony Mowray, captain of 1986, FMTM astronaut
– Wilf Mannion
– George Hardwick
– George Camsell, record goal scorer
– David Amstrong, local lad with 356 consecutive appearances
– Bruce Rioch, 1986 manager ant two promotions
– Willie Maddren, best un-capped player, manager and motor neurone disease victim
– Jack Charlton, promotion with record number of matches left
– Juninho, Brazilian Would Cup winner, best Brazilian player in PL
– Gareth Southgate, silverware captain
– Ali Brownlie, the Boro radio man and fan
– and last but not least, Steve Gibson
Of course there are persons I could personally add there like Terry Cochrane and Jim Platt. Or Stuart Boam and John Hicton. But they are not legends like in the above list.
Players who were great but had most of their career elsewhere were Souness, Hodgson and Johnston for example. I think legends have done something special to be remembered for ever.
Just saying, like. Up the Boro!
I know I left Brian Clough away. He was excellent goal scorer but he did not win anything and left to Sunderland too early. And made his name in Derby and Forest.
BTW, I hope for three point from Birmingham. 1-2 to Boro with Luke J, Britt and Ayala scoring. Up the Boro!
AK has left Forest by mutual consent after falling out with the owners.
Come on BORO.
Probably sick of having to watch his players play fairly attacking football and scoring goals.
Seriously though I think the Forest owner is one who likes to have a fair bit of “input”. Close to the playoffs which they haven’t been for years and last time out in the league battered Leeds. Pity it didn’t work out but that’s now two jobs for a rookie manager where it seems non footballing reasons appear to be the catalyst for him leaving.
Strange “decision” or “mutual agreement” by Forest. The Club is on a steady if not spectacular upward trajectory with a Manager with proven recent promotion ability just a few points outside the Play Offs with nearly half a season to run and with all the twists and turns that brings. You would think that they would have learnt from Derby and from Villa in terms of managerial merry go rounds.
Had they been struggling and looking like no hopers like Stoke as an example then I could understand their owners frustration but my guess is that AK would have had them in the Play Offs come May and with a few more additions in the Summer probably go one better next year. I guess its all perspective and how expectations are set, clearly Forest felt that they should be top four or top six as a minimum whilst the rest of us “outsiders” would have probably pitched them as top eight or even ten.
If they are wanting instant gratification then no doubt Jokanovic will be high up their list demanding that he repeats the Fulham feat of last year. If that doesn’t come off then they could find themselves back where they started. As for AK it would appear that his methods still rub some people up the wrong way. Coaching at one of the greatest Clubs in the world is very different to Coaching Players with a far lower level of ability, patience and understanding is a pre requisite for the job as is man management skills.
RR
Anyone who expects to replicate the Fulham effort in getting promoted should be very much aware that it was done with the assistance of a very good loan player from, I believe, a fellow London club. The day the season ended he returned to his club. There was no question of his being sold, I believe they paid several million for the privilege of his presence on the pitch.
They were not the only club to use this route to success, very obvious corruption in the game, and leading to impostor clubs appearing in the Premier league.
Let’s not forget that this practice gives any club doing the loaning the power of deciding who gets promoted.
Did we see Morinho and Karanka on the same flight to Madrid now? UTB!
Given the car crash that is Real Madrid right now, Mourinho’s availability and AK’s sudden freedom stranger things have happened!
They’re expected at the Tontine.
UTB,
John
Sorry to hear AK has left forest.
I thought he was doing a good job given what he inherited and the resources available to him. There again what do I know, I was in favour of both GM and TP initially but subsequently had serious reservations about both! 😎
I heard last week at the Boro game that it was likely that AK was leaving Forest for exactly the same reasons he left Boro allegedly……
All those Boro supporters on twitter and Facebook clamouring for his return don’t know the half of it why he left us. Sorry was sacked by Boro!
All I can say is those I have spoken to who worked with him wouldn’t like to do so again!!!
It wouldn’t suprise me at all if he and Mourinho teamed up again at Real Madrid .
OFB
So bring back Mogga. Well, he is a good guy and know who to buy if money is given to him. Mogga, that’s my manager. UTB!
“Coaching at one of the greatest clubs in the world is very different to coaching players with a far lower level of ability, patience and understanding is a pre requisite for the job as is man management skills.”
This. And more fool me, I guess, for once thinking that just because the tactical methodology explicitly works in Italy and Spain (still nine international trophies to England’s one) it would ultimately work here.
There’s the word – “ultimately”.
I think Nick Miller’s words on Paul Clement’s sacking at Derby definitely apply here. Defenders of Aitor will say he needed more time to work things out. Critics of Aitor will say, that kind of time’s simply not realistic anymore, especially if you’re at a club in a hurry.
I’ll add that Clement was known to complain about the nature of Championship football, and there’s little doubt Aitor still feels ill-at-ease with it, too. In the Spanish game, possession and shape takes precedence over directness and physicality. And Aitor wants, I believe, to stick to those principles. He would like to work under owners who give him the freedom to run the football side of things, who *trust* him.
Shades of Roy Keane’s time at Ipswich, where he cites never receiving the full trust of the owners as one of the reasons for his failure there. As opposed to Sunderland, where the Drumaville consortium pretty much indulged him with something like £80 million worth of transfer money until Ellis Short arrived. But, as he later adds, maybe he’s just using it as an excuse.
It may just be, like Keane, Aitor needs to feel like he’s *wanted* by the club – and he didn’t get that at Forest, whereas he got that at Boro for a long period of time.
Si
You know my feelings about him which we’ve spoken about previously
Allegedly
He is not a good man manager and is insular and aloof and creates division in the squad
OFB
I hear you, Bob, and it’s why I posted that Solskjaer piece below.
Players are human and need to be treated as such.
Re: Bob.
It seems no coaches divide opinion like Aitorian coaches, as we shall now call them.
For every person who slates them until what seems like the cows come home, there’s another who thinks they’re the best thing since sliced bread.
The growing extremism on either side makes things worse. Toxicity. With one side behind the manager, the other behind players who are either being “thrown out of the squad” or “played out of position”.
Made it kind of refreshing when a Boro-based journo I respect immensely did *not* stick up for Scott McDonald during Mogga’s final freefall of 2013.
His words? “I don’t care if he’s playing out of position”.
Contrast him with the Manchester United caretaker manager who adapted to playing on the wing even though he was a natural striker.
He did the job well, and United won the league.
Si
As you are aware I’ve been in touch with Scott and he apparently had a few issues with that favourite journo of yours !
OFB
Speaking of Solksjaer, here’s a piece by Jonathan Wilson that’s worth reading.
“Players are not sets of data, but humans”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/jan/11/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-manchester-united-approach-man-management
Peaky Blinders 0 Playing a Blinder 2
Quick shout for John O’Rourke as a Legend.
Always two sides to a story, Bob, and I’m interested in hearing yours. And Scotty’s.
Managers in Football Clubs have a very short shelf life compared to days gone by when the likes of Don Revie, Bill Shankly, Matt Busby, Joe Harvey, Joe Mercer and Jock Stein were almost synonymous with their respective clubs. Fergie and Wenger were the last of that breed.
The nature of the game and the potentially ruinous financial consequences are seemingly too much for owners to bear and for fans to live with in the modern day glamorised game. Many of us grew up watching Boro and if we won great and if we drew or lost then no big deal, never really expecting promotion or a trophy just being “Typical Boro”. That changed in ’86 when we nearly lost what we had previously taken for granted. The subsequent Rioch success story and the eventual Premiership dawning changed Teessider’s view of their home town team for ever. The Premiership and “greed is good” philosophy perpetuated by the advent of Sky and 24 hour televised micro examination changed the heart and morality of the game.
The pressures on Managers are phenomenal, just look at the current rate of turnover in the game and that clubs like Forest have had 22 managers this century (they had 20 managers from 1900 until 2000) and its only just gone 2019! Watford change Managers more than many regulars in the North Stand change their underwear (not the West stand obviously). As bad as this attrition rate is, is it this inevitability factor that actually causes Football Managers to commonly develop a blinkered bunker mentality well before things turn sour thus avoiding any emotional attachment to a club, the area, or its fans?
Mogga done fantastically well at WBA then went to Celtic and bombed after Strachan. Strachan came here and amazed us but for all the wrong reasons and was clearly found to be out of his depth. Mogga arrived and rebuilt from the wreckage but then repeated his failings at Celtic after that infamous Xmas to Summer run. Karanka was obliged more than his predecessors and largely went with what Mogga had left him yet despite achieving promotion managed to self destruct literally both on and off the field. Eccentric stubborn tendencies seem to be a failing with a lot of modern Football Managers with an unwillingness to see or perhaps accept the blindingly obvious.
Whether it is square pegging, tactical paralysis, sideways monotony, lone striker disease, a predilection for Donkeys or a blinding preference for underachievers from the same part of the globe they all eventually screw it up and badly. There are now very few exceptions who seem to manage to last long even with a bottomless pit of money or at least strong backing certainly in Manchester or at Chelsea. The “Chosen one” is now dejectedly looking like last weeks chip wrapper let alone newspaper. At Arsenal Arsene eventually lost the ability to challenge and adapt as the game left his principles and methodology behind.
The Clubs themselves are the second part of the problem if indeed not the main problem itself. A poor or under performing infrastructure weakens any Managers ability to maintain or progress. Long gone are the the days when a Manager actually had control with the modern game now dictating a plethora of back-room “experts” on their tablets, laptops and negotiating with Agents to bring in the next Maradona or Messi (or de Pena).
Fans seemingly get the whiff of doom well before Club Chairmen as the lingering odour of struggling somehow takes longer to pervade the nostrils of Owners or the Board. Conversely its also true that in the case of many clubs its the whiff of Boardroom failure or Owner incompetence that stinks the place out. Just ask our nearest North East cousins about the fate of Darlington, Hartlepool and Sunderland.
I recall a conversation on the Three Legends radio show some years back when Gatesy (I think) said that football was basically a very simple game being overcomplicated by some managers (or words to that effect). At what point and why do Football Managers seem to be blinkered to their obvious fate even though its coming hurtling down the track towards them. More alarmingly they seem paralysed, rooted to the spot, unable to change their fate (and tactics), doggedly clinging onto the wreckage in faint hope that fortune will turn in their favour.
Its not directed at AK or indeed any Manager in particular, just a general observation equally directed at Southgate, Monk, Mogga, Strachan, Robbo or TP (in the case of Boro) and all Football Managers of all clubs in general. If it’s not working why not change it before you get changed or at least try it?
Great Post RR and quite thought provoking.
I think I’ll have to pull my socks up with all these thoughtful and meaningful posts that are appearing on our blog it puts my two line efforts to shame.
Well done
OFB
Totally agree with Redcar Red. As he says managers aren’t given enough time nowadays, it’s maybe a syndrome of too many foreign owners infiltrating our game where on the continent the life span of a coach/manager has always been short because of the impatience of the owners. The same might be said about players also. Very few have an allegiance to their roots like the late Jimmy Dickinson who made all of his 764 appearances with Portsmouth and even went on to manage the club also.
Just realised I’ve not done my prediction for tomorrow!
What should it be fellow bloggers ?
OFB
I’d take a punt on Taraabt from Benfica he might be a nutcase,but he is talented and is different to what we have.
On Karanka he got a squad with plenty of limitations promotion.Brighton eventually proved they were better than us ,we had Ramirez who made the difference after January.
There can be exceptions.
Mike Garlick stuck by Sean Dyche despite calls for his head beginning to mount on the Twitterwaves.
He went back to a 4-4-2 and dropped Joe Hart for club captain Tom Heaton, possibly remembering the synergy Heaton (and perhaps Pope) had developed with the Burnley backline.
Result? Three wins out of three in league and cup, with Ben Gibson getting a full 90 under his belt.
Selwynoz, I personally do not think that there have been many one here, one possibly, who have been jumping up and down for Tavs inclusion. More game time for him and Wing and more recently for the latter to be starting games as he proves his worth.
Yes, Tav did not play as well as he has in othe cameos, but then the virtually the whole were generally poor the first half. As many have said, the two early goals and especially Wing coming on changing the dynamics of the game was confirmed by TP.
As to the number of complaints on here after a defeat against a win, remember Mr Pulis stated it was only Posh we beat.
Most fans only see the home games. I have seen nearly all the games, not “in the flesh” but a mix of the Riverside and Streaming. We have won SIX at home, been played off the park by three of our nearest competitors and been generally poor, football wise most of the season.
Mr Pulis is experienced, knew what he was getting into and has had two windows and now in the third. A fair amount of money spent, not wisely in my opinion, but then he is the Manager. He takes the credit and unfortuanately the criticism.
GHW, I hope that your prediction follows on from Peterborough and does not return to type. Yes, John O‘Rourke a bit of a legend at the time but not much time after promotion, more the pity.
Exmil, a loss may not be a diaster but it would certainly pile more pressure on TP as the chasing pack get ever closer to the four play off places up for grabs. We appear to be hanging onto one of them but for how much longer?
Great Post Pedro I enjoyed that
OFB
Pedro
We talk about the crowd being “divided”.
This is strange, because I have never heard one single word of criticism when Wing and Tav. play together. No complaints, win or lose (very rare )
When Abassalonga and Gestede appear they cry like babies, win or lose.
The wisdom of the crowd?
All managers divide opinion. You can guarantee that when a new manager comes in, 1/10 hardcore fans will take against him and will use every stick they can find to beat him. It used to be only obvious at the match and down the pub but now social media makes it much more widespread. Good results shut the haters up but don’t stop them hating because it becomes a tribal identity thing.
About another 1/10 start out as exactly the opposite. The remaining 8/10 tend to follow the results.
I remember Tim Lloyd’s old mailing list. There was a Robbo-out brigade from day 1. (The ARGs they were known as.) They went quiet with promotion and the early results but then came back when Juninho was bought and results slumped. Robbo had “ruined” the midget gems (Fjortoft, Barmby and Hignett) and all our failings were because Robbo didn’t like Higgy and if he played Higgy then all would be well.
On the whole, good results don’t reduce the number of haters but bad results increase the number and once someone becomes a hater they are mostly locked into it for the lifespan of that manager. Social media speeds this up. Good results, on the other hand, don’t create lovers. Fans expect good results and good performances. Trophies and promotion create lovers but there aren’t that many to go round. Net result is that a new manager has a honeymoon period measured in weeks or months before the haters start to make themselves known.
When a new manager comes in then everything flips. The tribal haters (mostly) adopt the new manager for tribal purposes and some of the remaining lovers for the old manager become haters for the new. Some of the 8/10 migrate to the extremes and it starts again.
Deleriad
Great post another articulate piece of writing that is meaningful and thought provoking.
This blog seems to be reaching new heights and I hope I’m not going to be left behind !!
OFB
I wonder what his disguise was?
(Insert your own jokes here)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46840353
I think it was Ian Gill. UP the Boro!
Peaky Blinders 2 – Weekly Blunders 1
The first half of a game that helped me fall in love with Boro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P1AbDLVYnk
Higgy really had to fight for his place. I’m informed as I watch the clip that he’d netted nine in pre-season. Even then he still wasn’t certain to start. Juninho’s arrival, of course, delighted us all but broke up the Midget Gems.
You might have called Higgy Craig “Hard Done By” Hignett for all the misfortune he suffered. Losing his place to Juninho, then scoring the goals that took us to Wembley in 1998 before losing his place – again – to Gazza. Packed off to Aberdeen after taking a wage cut to stay at Boro. Then came Boro 1-1 Blackburn, 2014…
Si
I always loved Higgy and as per my In2Views with Ron Bone he was scouted and brought to the club by Ron.
One of our good guys
OFB
Me too Bob, once remembering him score 4 goals all in the first half against Brighton in a League Cup tie in 1993.
Contrary to some posters, I do consider Big John Hickton a Boro legend. His penalty taking is part of our folk-lore. No, he wasn’t a Brazilian international, nor was he courted by Liverpool or other Goliaths of the day, but he never failed to give 100% and was worshiped by all the regular Boro supporters of his era.
As for tomorrow… I think 5 goals last weekend will have given the team, which ever is selected, a huge confidence boost and I think we just might prove too good for Brum…. 2-0 us COB
We’ve all heard rumours about Boro being interested in Brentford’s Neal Maupay, but even if Boro could afford him would he fit into a Tony Pulis system when it seems that Britt Assombalonga with similar statistics does’nt. For one thing at 5’ 7” he’s 3” smaller than Britt and as last season’s statistics are similar, would he be any better? For the record Maupay scored 12 League goals in 25 appearances plus 17 as a sub, whilst Britt scored 15 in 32 appearances plus 12 as a sub. I personally don’t think we need a new striker as long as we keep Ashley Fletcher who to my mind has never been given a run of games neither under Gary Monk nor Tony Pulis. If there’s one position where a player needs to be given a run of matches, it’s a striker who probably thrives on confidence more than any other player in a team.
The short shelf life of football managers is why I remain rather envious, if wrongly so (envy is never good), of the way Burnley do things.
The benefit of the doubt they give to Dyche stretches as far back as his interview for the manager’s job. Remember when Ellis Short insisted that Roy Keane “live in the area”? Keane and Sunderland parted ways within days, the Cork man clearly upset at the way the then new owner was intruding in the manager’s life. (Remind you of anyone?)
In Dyche’s case, he was one of the lucky three called back for a second interview for the Clarets job. All was going well until one of the board said, “We would expect that you would move your family into the area.”
Dyche, married with two children, refused. His intended assistant Ian Woan immediately thought, “that’s it, we’re not getting this job”, and Dyche sensed disappointment in the room too. But then he told the board why he couldn’t move – a year before he’d taken the Watford job and led them to 11th, their best finish for four years. However, new owners came in and fired him. (Deja vu?)
So he told the Burnley board, “I did a very good job there, and at the end of the season I was sacked… I could get my family to uproot, settle here and after a year you may make the same decision Watford made…
“My wife and kids (would) have to move again. Family comes first with me.”
Woan said not moving would probably cost them the job. But Dyche stuck to his guns, telling him: “If you lie on the way in, you have to continue lying when you get there. I’m not prepared to do that.”
The rest, as they say, is history.
(Source: David Walsh.)
Just watched some of Emerson’s goals- now there was an attacking mid field player!!
Philip
Philip,
TP would have soon knocked that nonsense out of him and converted him into a fullback.
UTB,
John
Leeds 2 Derby 0, no matter what happens tomorrow we stay at least 5th but like everyone else I hope we get back to 8 points behind Leeds.
Come on BORO.
Guess what I’m going to go for
⚽️⚽️
OFB
OMG!!! Never would of guessed it
UTB
I do like consistency! 😎
OFB,
Entrails and tea leaves thoroughly checked and you didn’t disappoint! That’s inside knowledge for you.
UTB,
John
The Leeds victory tonight just amplifies the need for us to win games to stay in the hunt and ahead of the chasing pack, to do that we need to score goals. How TP achieves it is up to him but I’m pretty certain that an isolated Assombalonga or Hugill or heaven forbid Gestede isn’t going to achieve that objective enough times over the remainder of the season.
I don’t think it matters who plays up front.
We have decent forwards for this level.
It’s the tactics that need to change.
Spending 20m on a new forward will not change a thing.
Very interesting to read TPs comments on the Ripley transfer deal. I have to say it sounds as if the club has behaved very well both personally and in business terms. They have given him a chance to establish himself whilst retaining a good commercial position.
Maybe I’m being over-sentimental but this is an example of what I meant by MFC being a club that I’m proud to support.
UTB
If ever a game had a goalless draw written all over it today’s match at St Andrews is the one.
Werder,
Many thanks for the header article and I loved the idea of S.A.D. being added to the Boro name. Anyway, prediction time and with Boro it’s even more difficult than with a normal team.
Which one will turn up? The one that plays with a passionate, physical intensity as the first burst of sound from the Acme Thunderer echoes around the stadium or the one that politely says ‘after you’, ‘no, no, after you I positively insist’ as Boro begin their routine forty five minute warm-up.
Brummies 1 – 1 Boro and that would be a good result.
UTB,
John
Just been catching up, reading the posts on the blog and some articles on local media. Interesting article in the Northern Echo this morning that reports that Tony Pulis has pulled the plug on a couple of his targets after he thought they were more interested in coming to Boro to increase their salary.
It seems it’s a similar kind of problem as the summer but I’m not totally convinced you can avoid it in the modern game. It’s likely most players (or more accurately their agents) will want to maximise their contract – those with options will no doubt start higher. While it may be a legitimate action by the club it may ultimately limit your signings to players who want to play for both Pulis and Boro. Although I’m sure the £7m move of Saville was mainly successful because of the money side of the deal so it’s perhaps naive to take the attitude that it’s not a deciding factor.
On to today’s game and with Birmingham just 4 points behind it may be that it will one of those games that Pulis will prefer not to lose rather than want to win. Though I still think Boro’s best bet has always been to score first and preferably early as our record from being in front is good. The last couple of months has seen Boro usually start slowly without intensity or even offering much in the way of a goal threat in the first half. The same was actually also true against Peterborough but if we can start the game in the same way as we started the second half it will be far better.
Team selection will be key and whether Pulis decides to go with his usual midfield – Incidentally, the Northern Echo’s probable team selection is 4-3-3 with a back four of Fry, Ayala, Batth, Friend – the usual suspects in midfield of Howson, Clayton, Besic and a front three of Downing, Hugill, Tavernier. Surprisingly they opted against Wing and have gone for Tavernier instead with van La Parra likely to be on the bench.
Perhaps 3-5-2 would offer more options to win the game with wing-backs, Wing as playmaker and someone to play off the striker. OK, unlikely to see anything other than Hugill in the lone striker role I suspect.
I’ll go 1-0 to Boro with pseudo-legend Friend continuing his goal streak.
In sport is there any merit in drawing a match, or indeed should there be? The Americans hate tied matches and in their three major sports of American Football, Baseball and Basketball always play ‘overtime’ to determine a winner. The Australians too only want winners and have invented the ‘golden point’ into Rugby League which Super League are to adopt this year. As there were only 4 draws in 138 matches last season is that a step too far? However everyone loves a winner, so imagine if golf tournaments didn’t have play-offs and the trophy had to be shared.
Which brings me to football. Has the adoption of 3 points for a win in 1981 encouraged more attacking football? Should this now be raised to 4 or even 5 points for a win, or alternatively award zero points for draws? There are far too many draws in football for extra time to be played, but would penalty shootouts add more excitement, or would some teams still play for a draw hoping to win a match on penalties? Perhaps the number of wins in a season might be a fairer option of deciding final League positions with goals scored being the deciding factor where teams had the same number of wins, or even goals alone determining the final League positions? Maybe even giving 5 points for a win plus an extra point to a winning or losing team for each goal scored.
There are certainly plenty of options in making football more exciting most of them fairly revolutionary. One thing is certain though, most of them wouldn’t suit Tony Pulis’s tactics. I doubt if any of the options would ever be implemented in football, but some might be at least worthy of consideration as in my view the 3 points for a win system hasn’t had the desired effect of making football any more exciting than it was pre-1981.
Werder I presume most of us are in jobs for the money, I most certainly am out here, so if you find one you really like doing for your own personal reasons so much the better.
Football is different in that if you aren’t really interested in where you play and are only interested in your bank balance then the team will suffer. We’ve all seen players not really trying too hard in a game, Yakubu at Wigan being the worst example I have personally witnessed and the effect it brought.
So if TP pulled the plug on a couple of transfer targets for the reason stated then I fully support him on his stance.
No doubt others may disagree.
Outside the big clubs, I no longer have this romantic notion that most footballers join other clubs because of their love of that team – plus even wanting to play for a particular manager is not exactly a long-term plan these days. I expect whether we like or not players will be looking for the best packages and as we saw in the summer moving to Teesside is not the same as London.
I’m sure Negredo came to Boro for the money and nobody could accuse him of not trying. He ran himself into the ground playing the lonliest of lone strikers under Karanka. Also I suspect Gaston Ramirez joined us in the Championship for the money and in the end he was the difference that got us over the line. As with Yakubu, it may not always end well but for most of their time many will put in the effort as they often use clubs like Boro as a stepping stone.
I guess we would all prefer to see players with the right attitude join the club but in the end it’s quality on the pitch that will make the difference – at least most of Karanka’s mercenaries were more or less moved on at a profit. I suspect many of Monk’s buys will be moved on at a loss and few have performed at the expected level – the club decided back then that paying over the odds was necessary to get the ‘best’ players.
The new recruitment model appears to be hoping to attract the right kind of players with the right attitude on a lower budget – it may work but you probably need quite a few windows to get them in and paying above the market rate is really the only tool to force the issue.
FAA
Great Post
What’s a job ?
OFB
Ken
Personally I think that increasing points for a win or number of goals scored will only increase the margin, perhaps gulf would be a better word, between the clubs with billions of pounds at their disposal opposed to those with merely a hundred million or so.
Obviously that’s only relevant to the greed is good premiership and as you go further down the leagues it is more of an even playing field so your idea may work there.
A possible reason for it not having appeared to work could be that most managers see gaining one point is a much better return than none.
FAA
The statistics of draws in English League matches so far this season are as follows:-
Premier League 42 draws in 210 matches (20%)
Championship 98 draws in 312 matches (31.4%)
Division One 75 draws in 312 matches (24%)
Division Two 86 draws in 314 matches (27.4%)
Interestingly in those 98 Championship draws only 21 matches have finished as goalless draws, 42 have ended 1-1, 31 have ended 2-2, three ended 3-3 and one ended 5-5. The most frequent score has been 1-0 or 0-1 in 61 matches, and total goals scored so far this season total 837 in those 312 matches (2.68 per match).
Taking one Second Tier Division at random (1962/63) in a 22 Club League 1496 goals were scored in the 464 matches – an average of 3.224 per match and there were only 107 draws (31 of which were goalless) in 462 matches – that’s only 23% compared with 31.4 so far this season, a massive difference considering only 2 points were awarded for a win and that the introduction of 3 points was to encourage teams to be more adventurous in going for a win rather than settle for a draw. One might argue that matches today are more competitive, players are much fitter, tactics are taken more seriously, etc but maybe one should now look at ways of rewarding teams to be even more adventurous and I’m not talking only of Boro here. I’m not saying that all 1-0 wins can’t be exciting or even goalless draws away from home, but the purpose of football is surely scoring goals, so the odd 3-2 win or 2-2 draw away from home would at least give crowds something to cheer about now and again. Just my opinion of course.
TP, as we understand it, was asked by SG to look at all aspects of the club including transfers. One aspect, in the past, that annoyed me was when we sold a player, the buying club then sold him again for a large profit and we got nothing.
As being revealed about the Ripley transfer, not only do we have a substantial sell on clause but also the first option to buy back. If this is the first signs of TP’s influence then the club is moving in the right direction, turning transfers down because the player is coming for the wrong reason is another good sign.
As TP has often stated “Rome wasn’t built in a day” and when he arrived he found a lot of things wrong at our club, which most on here already thought, transfer policy being one of the main problems. It appears now that this is being addressed, along with other things, such as academy players trading with the first team squad instead of being segregated.
A good new manager, doesn’t come in and clear the decks straight away, he gradually changes things and keeps his line managers onside until he sorts out the weak from the strong and of course contracts have to be taken into consideration.
Getting Boro into the Premiership, I believe is not his only remit and we don’t know what sort of timescale SG and TP are working on, are they prepared to wait until they have a squad that could sustain the first couple of years in the Premiership without having to add more than 2/3 first team players each season.
We all don’t want to happen what happened last time and ask yourself truly how many of our present squad would you take into the Premiership with a chance of surviving the first season. I know a lot of people’s first names on the list will be Wing, Tavernier and Fry but honestly to survive next season in the Premiership they would all be in your stating eleven, not bench or squad. Come to think of it which manager would you have to guide us to first season survival !
Come on BORO.
Don’t disagree with a lot of that Exmil including that this squad would be down by Christmas if they were promoted just as the last one was due to a disjointed and unbalanced recruitment philosophy. I championed and touted TP for the Boro Managers role long before SG made it a reality but at present he needs to show some intent to try and win a few games (like we did when Wing and Tav and Co. were in the side) rather than taking twenty five minutes to get started and in so doing stripping the local Chemist’s shelves bare of antidepressant medication for Season Card holders. Last Saturday against Peterborough for 45 minutes apart it has been soul destroying for months.
I think because of the gulf between the PL and Championship, especially in wages paid, it’s going to be very hard to slowly build a team for the purpose of promotion. Boro for example will have no parachute payments next season and subsequently a smaller budget in relation to probably 6-8 other clubs.
I imagine if you do find yourself with a player performing with that extra quality he will be coveted by lower-end PL clubs at least. OK, if you’re lucky you can cash in and use the money to get his replacement but the summer showed it’s not that easy to persuade players to come to Teesside – probably less so if your business model is aimed at not paying a premium.
I suspect the reality of ‘building’ a squad and keeping it together is probably just two or three years in those circumstances. I believe the long-term strategy should be aimed at acquiring and bringing through young players and perhaps the better ones should be getting pitch time while playing in the Championship as they will most likely not get the chance in the top tier.
Wing, Fry and Tavernier are effective enough to playing every week and you would imagine they’d get better with playing games. If a manager prefers experienced players then I suspect any model based on bringing through promising youngsters will never reach the desired aim of adding value to them. In which case, you’re back at the situation of having to pay for more finished articles – which will obviously require a bigger budget.
any live streams
I had a look but nothing working other than the official ones.
https://twitter.com/Boro/status/1084087613747802112/photo/1
Team for today.
Come on BORO.
So it looks like possibly a back-three with Howson and Friend as wing-backs – otherwise we would be playing with 5 midfielders. As usual it’s hard to say until they line up but Pulis has at least decided to start with Wing – plus quite an attack-minded bench.
In fact, I’m not at all sure how this selection will line up as with wing-backs you’re going to get quite congested across the middle – maybe Saville plays as false number ten or even wing more advanced – We shall see.
Randolph
Fry
Ayala
Batth
Friend
Clayton
Besic
Wing
Howson
Saville
Hugill
Subs:
Lonergan
McNair
Tavernier
Downing
van La Parra
Fletcher
Assombalonga
Looking at the team and subs, then what it gives is the ability to change formation as circumstances dictate. Could be a 3 at the back or 4 at the back with Fry at RB, 4 in midfield with Saville no 10 supplying Hugill. Could easily switch to 2 or 3 up front if we need to chase the game.
There is no real defender on the bench which is interesting!
Anyway, I am going for 1 1
UTB
It’s all well and good having a fluid formation, but where is the player capable of calling the shots in change during the game?
Need a leader in the January window.
Fair point!
GHW
Wing
And a 🙏 prayer
OFB
To avoid confusion, when I say calling the shots in change, that is to say instructing the players on the field which formation and positions to move into. This needs to be a player who commands the respect of teammates and immediate implementation of the managers instructions.
In today’s fast moving game this requires a calm and experienced head. That would be my priority in the transfer window.
ELO, ELO, ELO – Looks like the the boys in blue are warming up to Mr Blue Sky…
So far it’s been pretty comfortable for Boro and Hugill has had a couple of half chances but nothing clear cut. Looks like possibly 4-1-4-1 but with Clayton sometime dropping in between Batth and Ayala to make a back three. Birmingham don’t look that good and should be beatable.
Get in Lewis, 1 nil halftime.
Come on BORO.
Good display to date, with Wing having a really good game supported by Saville. Hugill should possibly have made more of his chances?
Boro worth the 1-0 lead after a sharp move down the right saw Fry cross the ball that Saville couldn’t quite reach but Wing stretched to put it into an open net. Birmingham have been physical but have been poor and offered very little going forward with no shots on target to trouble Randolph. As things stand Boro still in fifth but 7 points clear of 7th place as Forest, QPR and Villa are currently all losing – plus just one place below Norwich, who have dropped to 4th on goal difference. If the games finish like this then it could be good day for Boro!
Don’t speak too soon Weder!
I did warn you! Looking at BBC stats, we may have been sitting back too much again?
Somehow Birmingham scored a goal but Boro back in front after a beautifully chipped finish by Britt!
I will take that back now!
A good result indeed and only 4 points, well really 5, off 2nd place so given this league, probably achievable!
Maybe TP has learnt that we need to be on the front foot more?
UTB
Important victory and three valuable points – couldn’t believe it when Birmingham scored with their only real effort on goal but great second goal by Britt after being put through by Lewis Wing. It wasn’t a particularly fluid performance overall but everyone worked hard and deserved the win – probably too many over-hit long balls and much more of the game than required was played in the air. Birmingham didn’t look like the form team at home on that showing but signs that Lewis Wing can help Boro to improve their scoring stats.
Werder
I need to see Brits goal again
In real time he looked a bit offside to me like.
Good first half but why did we stand off them after the break?
Boro never do things easy.
Great to see the team work hard
One negative, Besic and Clayton should not take free kicks from the half way line . They go sideways, back, back, and back again.
I would pass on Besic and send him back to Everton.
Great win but it was anything but comfortable.
Lewis Wing may save SG a lot of money.
Hope the management can see now what we all see.
Glad he got a goal as he thoroughly deserved it.
Very good away win against Birmingham, which was only their second home defeat in 19 home championship games, 4 points off second place, Britt getting back into scoring form is a bonus, maybe not going anywhere.
Come on BORO.
Shout out to the ref.
He let some bruising tackles go and wasn’t fooled by penalty appeals.
He kept calm when the natives were restless even though some of the ” tackles”. on Boro’s players were a bit reckless and went unpunished
GHW, you seem very comfortable in your ivory shed in dispersing comments left and right without ever backing up your sprays with other than the odd acidic reply or comment, I know where you sit with TP and have made comments to that effect previously, but you seem very at ease in picking off others comments and opinions and not being willing to have yours open to the same criticism.
You wanted to know where the flowing midfield supplier was coming from, to most of us on here he’s been there for quite a whilst TP constantly ignored him, try ignoring a 25 yard screamer in the cup, another tick in the box today with a goal along with an assist, he ticks my boxes does it yours in your shed?
So come on pal, paint your wall with your feelings and tell us exactly what you think, what you want and exactly how we should go about getting it, because I’m getting very tired of your constant, arrogant dismissal of others on this blog, that place their opinions and feelings to an open audience. What’s your master plan mate and where do we go from here, no one liners please, I’m over them.
No problem, but I’m not too sure where the “ flowing midfield supplier” question you mentioned came from.
I do indeed support TP as I think he is the kind of professional manager we have been lacking in since the days of Bruce Rioch. He is currently building a squad, that over the whole season will stand us in good stead when the inevitable suspensions and injuries start to take effect.
If you, as you say take exception to the ramblings I put on here then I would suggest you just skip past them.
I reckon most people skip past my ramblings !
I’ll just have to talk to myself as usual !
I shall close As Stan and Ollie
🎼De de de de
De de de
Diddly de de
Etc
🎼
OFB
Not sure the comparison with Rioch works for me. Bruce would play talented youngsters without question for a start.
Not sure why Pulis has been termed a ‘professional manager’ either. He publicly criticises players that he has an agenda against. He bemoans the spending of others despite splashing out £15m+ himself already this season & adding a number of expensive PL loans. He’s similar to a certain Senor Karanka in a lot of ways, expect the Spaniards football is free flowing in retrospect when compared with the Pulisaurus.
As I recall, Bruce Rioch had no option other than to play youngsters. They were the only players available to him.
Bruce didn’t jettison the youngsters following promotions when we would have had more money to play with.
Bruce also just got on with it. The Pulisaurus has whinged like crazy about inheriting a squad full of players proven at this level & a handful of promising youngsters in addition to the money he’s spent. Pretty much any manager in the division would have loved to be in that position. The man is a fraud.
🔴 Just a quick reminder that house rules don’t allow gratuitous use of the ‘F’ word so I edited and replaced it with ‘crazy’ instead – werdermouth
Good blog but just one point Bruce Rioch played the talented youngsters because he had no option as the club didn’t have any money to buy new …
OFB
There’s a hint in there somewhere.
UTB,
John
My reference to the “flowing midfield supplier” was in response to you wanting someone bought in off the market, at no doubt a hefty price yet again, to call the shots and change the game. As I’ve stated previously he’s been at the club for a while now, but your consummate professional manager wanted him to grow up and learn more about the game, poppycock. Wing has proved more than once that he can link up the forward portions of the team, he can call the shots and definitely can play a killer ball, whether it’s a screamer from outside the box or a slide rule pass, he’s also man enough to look after himself amongst the Championship thugs. The vast majority of people on here and others who I communicate with, have been banging on to have his name the first on the team sheet, but for whatever reason, Pulis was coming out with a stream of excuses not to. You don’t get to manage the clubs he has and be in the game for as long as he’s been not to recognise a players skill set, so I’ll put down to plain pig headedness on his behalf to not see what most other could, or was he simply trying to justify playing his two expensive dud purchases ahead of him?
As for building a squad fit for purpose, who’s he brought in? Don’t go there with the likes of Saville, McNair and VLP, the first two were vastly overpriced by approximately 95% of their respective transfer fees, and the last one couldn’t even get a game for a team rooted to the foot of the premier league. In fact this top professional’s charm and charisma couldn’t even entice any of his previous charges to come and play for him again at the Boro, they were only too willing to go anywhere other than where he was the manager. As for the ones that have left, all I believe were beyond his control with probably Paddy being the exception. Billy Whizz was contractual, Gibson simply wanted to better his playing level and Paddy was sick of being overlooked, and not just by Pulis by the way. Not one of them are headliners at their new clubs and I think that the remuneration for them all was good, but we should have snapped a certain, at that time, WBA managers hand off when he came in with 25 big ones for Gibson the season earlier.
As for squads, a clubs day to day running, making them stronger and fit for purpose along with giving them the benefit of your bottomless pit of knowledge and experience, I don’t see Stoke or WBA being any better off than we are for his benevolence, especially Stoke. I’m not a Pulis knocker and I think that he should, and has been given a fair crack of the whip, but I think that he polarises rather than draws a group together. I sincerely hope that he goes on to prove me wrong, but a year down the track I’m not convinced by what he’s brought to the club, if anything we appear to be treading water whilst others surge on. Maybe by reverting back to the players that gave us an August to remember, he might just have stumbled upon what was going right back then, if not I reckon we should have a whip round to get him a white stick and a Labrador in harness.
If I was to just skip past your ramblings, then that’s me cherry picking everything that I like, and not reading thoughts and opinions of others that may, and most times do, have very relevant points to make and that don’t align with mine. There’s always two sides to a debate and to not listen to the other side’s opinion doesn’t exactly make it a debate now does it, that’s just me or some other Herbert like me rambling on.
Your blind faith to TP is commendable, but if it is blind then maybe we should have a second whip round and get you a white stick and a Labrador in harness as well.
You misread what I said about calling the changes on the pitch when it was required, and I’ve clarified it to avoid confusion.
With regard to WBA and Stoke not being better off, when I last looked they had both been relegated from the PL, so you’re correct but TP wasn’t the manager when they went down.
A well deserved and hard fought win with two really good goals. Brit scoring a 1v1 must be a rarity in a Boro shirt and the finish, an exquisite dink over the advancing keeper, was the cherry on the cake of a great away performance.
Brum totally changed their style second half showing that there are two teams on the pitch and it made for some nervous viewing at times.
Personally thought Savlle had his best game in a Boro shirt playing a bit further forward than previously, George was up and down like a young un, Ayala and Baath dealt with virtually everything in the air and Fry continues to prove me wrong turning in another good performance at right back. Clayts was his usual Mr Dependable clearing up in midfield and Howson kept moving in the I right direction. Hugill got a bit of a battering especially in the first half with little or no protection from the ref who was happy to let it carry on, with the two Brum centre halfs seemingly taking it in turns to crash through him from he back. He should have netted before Wing did but overall his contribution was positive. When Brit came on he looked interested and caused problems for their back line. As mentioned his goal was a peach.
Wing was head and shoulders motm for me. His bursting run into the box for his goal and his pass through to Brit were the obvious highlights but there was so much more to his all round game.
And that leaves one from the starting 11. On his performances over the season so far I’m with Old Billy in agreeing Besic should be passed on. Today his contribution was minimal and he seemed to be turning towards his own goal every time no matter where he was on the pitch.
A couple of weeks ago I thought the players no longer bought into what Pulis was telling them to do and had ” lost the dressing room”. The last few games would appear that I was, not for the first time, wrong. You don’t get a draw at Derby and a win at Brum and put 5 past the other Boro if everyone isn’t pulling in the same direction.
Small improvements for sure but it appears we may have got over that long blip and maybe we were just going through a bad patch. Who knows?
I like others was happy with the appointment of Pulis and was as angry and frustrated by results and what I thought the team selection should be as were others. While everyone is entitled to their opinion there are a lot of Boro fans, who when things go well are incapable of giving the manager an credit. Opinions are one thing an entrenched position is another.
Who will be the first to say “It was only Birmingham”.
Who will be the first to say “It was only Birmingham”.
Tony Pulis ?
OFB
FAA,
Good report. Thanks.
FAA
A couple of points, in my opinion we play on the front foot with Wing in the team. Assombalonga is scoring because Wing delivers perfect through balls to his striker, and by that I mean pace, the ball beats the two defenders and does not race away to the by line, this giving the striker a fair chance of scoring.
We still need Tav in the side, they are a great combination.
Apologies if anyone takes offence at some of (or indeed all) of my previous post.
I obviously meant Frank Lampards Derby County.
Whilst we all support Tony Pulis ‘s Boro!
I was in Newcastle this afternoon and called to see some family I still have up there
My cousin said he had always wanted Tony Pulis to be a Newcastle Manager and rated him highly!
He said that the current and last managers generally were in it for the money and Rafa never criticised Ashley as he was quite happy coining it in
Interesting how others view our manager isn’t it?
OFB
Did anyone else watching the club stream have it annoyingly cutting out and then replaying the same bit of footage and missing on the live action? Only happened in the first half, usually whe Boro were on the attack, but then the live footage cut out totally just after Brit scored. A disgruntled and bitter Brummy pulling the plug maybe? Fortunately had the Tees commentary on so wasn’t totally in the dark.
This isn’t a pop at the club as the away match streams are provided by outside sources I believe.
I had no problems with the stream on Riverside Live. Not a single thing.
And a great result. Enjoyed and we are starting to play better and better. Fully deserved the three points. Up the Boro!
Strange as I was on the boro stream too and had no issues. On the contrary it was perfect through out. Great as we won
Jarkko, Allan
Thanks for the feedback. I suspect it must’ve been an issue at this end.
Good hard fought win today. Two conclusions. Wing must start. Besic can go.
Two conclusions from today, one. Wing must start every match, he is the catalyst for the sudden improvement in other players (too many to mention) he is a pleasure to watch, always looking forward, not frightened to score, deservedly man of the match, Brit is suddenly scoring, why? Because someone is at last putting him in on goal with the ball at his feet.
Two. Can we now have the other half of the jig saw in at the start, and I do mean Tav.
I actually think that we could cruise this league.
I’ve always maintained that Boro will find it much easier accumulating points away from home. However Tony Put must adopt a less cautious approach at home if we are to ‘cruise this league’. But I agree it’s there for the taking if he does.
‘Put’ should obviously read Pulis.
Under Karanka Boro accumulated 103 points at home in his 2 full seasons in the Championship, but Tony Pulis has already accumulated 24 points from 14 away matches, a projected total of 39 points. Add those two records together and Boro would have near enough 92 points this season and on a par with Leeds United’s projected total of 2 points a game this season, so automatic promotion would certainly be on the cards although Boro would have to win almost all of their remaining 10 home games, but why shouldn’t they do so?
Just published Redcar Red’s match report on Boro’s important win at Garry Monk’s Birmingham and three vital points in the promotion race…
https://diasboro.club/2019/01/12/birmingham-1-2-boro/
RR
Thanks for a great report you’re. certainly getting these hot off the press
Appreciate your efforts as usual
OFB
RR, that was another excellent report.
The trajectory of the second half seems to reflect the time that Mogga’s WBA took on Pu’s Stoke twice over in 2008-09, and Stoke were baffled why Mogga was getting all the plaudits for his slick, possession-based methodology when his team was at the foot of the table and their team was in a much more comfortable position. Stoke did the double over WBA that year, and Potters fans would see fit to rub it in with chants of “Long ball! You should have played long ball!”
Today I think Monk will feel hard done by. He’ll point at the overall possession stats, which amount to almost 60%, and more shots on goal. As Mogga used to do when his Boro, at the start, narrowly lost to Doncaster and Coventry despite having the better of the game for long periods.
But – and here’s the catch – when “on top”, how often did they genuinely threaten? And when they actually got into the right position to go for the kill, how clinical were they?
What we did, we did well, and that was the difference. Even when we weren’t out of sight by the break, we had the quality and the intent that could punish them at any moment.
We don’t need to think about cruising the league right now – pride comes before a fall and all that. Best to take each game as it comes and focus on getting the job done.
No doubt that’s what Jack told the lads back in 1973-74.
I’ve seen a few comments lately about Pulis needing to take notice of Wing’s performances and give him a chance. After the 3-0 trouncing from Villa on 1 December, Wing has played every game – either brought on as an impact sub or, for the last 3 consecutive league matches, he has started.
I think Pulis knows what he has got in Wing, and I am glad we have a manager who lets a player have a run in the team. He has been well handled and we are now seeing the best of him. I’ll be happy to see Tav come into the team when he is ready.
It was a good win today – thanks for the report RR.
Thanks for the report, RR.
From The Sunday Times report on the match:
“[Wing]’s been a breath of fresh air,” said Pulis. “He’s got to learn and understand the game. Sometimes he goes AWOL in the team shape but he brings so much to the party. But we have to be careful with him.”
I want to say something about Marcus Tavarnier,
Looking around at players within his age group give or take, some are playing a lot more games than him, some at bigger clubs , some at lower on loan but are touted as future stars.
My concern is , is he getting the right kind of advice, im not saying wrong advice , because all have a stake in his future, sometimes its family could be the club,
Advice could be ,keep your head down,work hard , be patient.
What that could do is put the breaks on.
Talent should not be subjected to same as?
My advice to him, is play on the front foot, make your opponent look like he’d stayed in bed , enjoy yourself, forget mistakes and stand up to them who try to hold you back.
He should go on loan to a team that is going well and likes to attack, I would send him to Sunderland, if they want him,
I would tell him watch videos of Sane, at MC, and take in how he excels
In my opinion Marcus doesn’t play at his full potential ,he’s at about 65%, I think there is more.
Then again he’s part of where he gets to
Great win today.,
GHW, I never said that Pulis was the manager when they went down, what I was saying is that in your eyes he is supposed to be the one that builds squads up for the rough and tumble of the season, he certainly didn’t leave either club with the capabilities to do anything like survive.
Redcar Red,
Thank you for the report. Last week I lost count of the goals in your report and this week I was reading faster and faster and cursing the four minutes of added time. They’re doing nothing for my blood pressure!
A good win and we have to be very happy with that. My prediction was wrong again, good so to walk the dogs in a good mood and that’s two weeks running. Well done Boro.
UTB,
John
Thanks RR for another great report and helping me to keep in the loop from down under having now arrived in Wellington.
Delighted with the result and to be proved wrong, having forecast a loss due to a LJ goal which did not come to fruition.
Whilst I am in the LW corner and believe he deserves a run in the side I do not believe that he or any other player should expect to be picked week in week out without fail as some would suggest on here.
They all have to perform week in and week out to keep the shirt and should they not do so then they should expect to be benched.
I am also a fan of MT but in the previous match he fell below his own high standards and as such should not have been surprised to be benched for the Brum game.
Where I do have an issue with TP and there non inclusion is when he continues to pick others on a regular basis when they are not performing which we have seen on numerous occasions this season.
I find it somewhat ironic that TP is only now stating that LW has been a breath of fresh air, something many of us have been banging on about for months and without the need for an FA coaching badge!
Good shout KP
KP
My admiration of Lewis Wing has been previously posted.
I have also posted that on occasions I have spoken to Curtis and Woody they have repeatedly stated that they have never worked with a manager like TP who practices shape and positioning every training session and sometimes two or three times a session. This is to ensure that every player knows his role within the team and that they play as a team not individuals.
Now we have a bit of a wayward spirit with LW who like all good creative players sometimes does things off the cuff and quite often produces a goal
So the statement yesterday by TP that sometimes LW was out of position meant he created gaps that the opposition could exploit
I just hope TP is understanding enough to accept that creativity sometimes is better than rigidity
OFB
OFB
I agree fully with the comments about creativity/rigidity and TP seemed to my mind more understanding of AT’s failings than he does Lewis.
Perhaps AT kept quiet and took it on the chin and Lewis fights back a bit verbally ?
The northern league makes men out of boys quite quickly and Lewis can look after himself
It would possibly explain the difference in handling ?
OFB
Tav did have a bad game last week and was rightly benched. But he probably would have been anyway as TP returned to type for an away league game after a cup game against nobody in particular.
Hope the same benching rule applies to Besic
Billy as I previously posted, Tav did not have a good first half like the majority. In my opinion he did not have a bad game, a better second half which they all did. Tav did not however meet his previous standard. But then it is a team game and all can look poor.
As KP said many on here having been asking for both Wing and Tav to be given game time because so many other regular players were continually poor.
It has taken TP longer than it should to have included Wing.
KP, is Queenstown on the itinerary, if not, why not, it’s beautiful?
I’m fully behind the reasoning that if you don’t perform then you’re hooked, but the same reasoning has to be applied squad wide. So far when there’s been aberrations by the academy lads they’ve been benched, some times not even making the team sheet, but with the expensive conscripts there seems to be a damn sight more lee way.
A breath of fresh air from TP is turning to more of a fart than fresh air, but saying that he changes tunes as often as the wind tacks, so stick with Tony.
PPP
Would have loved to have made it to Queenstown but part of the trip is to see family and the budget only stretches so far. Perhaps if I am lucky enough next time!
Btw. I agree entirely with you comments regarding the usual subjects – he is not even handed in his treatment of players in my view.
It was Alan Hansen who said ‘you’ll never win anything with kids’ after Manchester Utd lost an early season match. Of course he was proved wrong after they won the league with Beckham, Scholes, Butt, and the two Nevilles. Did anyone notice that Leeds United had 7 kids, the eldest being 20, on the subs bench on Friday plus one or two on the pitch yet no Bamford. It maybe due to a long injury list, but maybe Tony Pulis would be advised to consider that option sometimes if he considers Boro have such a good youth setup.
The usual thanks for the report from RR. Far better than anything else.
Good to hear that we appeared to be moving out of defence quicker and certainly from the Sky 2 minutes, it looked that way. The pass from Wing for the second goal was very good and he certainly deserves his place as he adds some creativity.
I am happy that we are still in a play off place and with this crazy league, still in the hunt for an automatic promotion place. I haven’t been TPS greatest fan this season and as others have said, we do not know what his objectives from SG are.
That said, hopefully he will see that setting up a team to be more forward thinking actually works and needs to be continued even at home!
Let’s see what Saturday brings against Millwall.
BBD
It is a constant surprise to me that real fans of the great game, casually state that Wing is not bad. This is the under statement of the season.
He is one of our finest bits of recruitment for many seasons, on many fronts he ticks a lot of boxes, others play better with him in the side, he is fully adult in his understanding of the game, his ability to combine with Tav adds something to both their games. And his goals are so important.
Any idea that they should be played sparingly should be laughed out of the window at once, we need them in every match, and they will get better.
It is no accident that our non scoring striker is suddenly finding the net, that would be perfectly paced through balls to run on to, they generally do the trick.
It is a great pity that it has taken so long to arrive at this point, but we will say no more about it.
We all now know the team that should take the field every match, with it I believe we will hit the top at some point.
Pleasing to win yesterday. Thanks to RR for the great report and Werder for the intro. Just seen that next weeks game is on Bein but not live. On here at 8am so 9.30 on the East coast.
Thanks for the heads up MW. It is indeed scheduled for 9.30am on Sunday. Beats staying up until 2.00 am.
UTB
Ten years ago there were shouts of “Southgate Out” after a 1-0 home defeat to Leicester.
Seven years later Leicester won the top tier title that we never did.
Three years after that and Southgate, having become only the fourth England manager to lead the team to the last four of any international tournament, is on the shortlist for the Manchester United job.
Not much of a point to make here, except… would that Boro could learn and develop in a similar way.
The evolvement of Southgate and Leicester. Two of the most heartwarming stories of the 2010s. Because money and players be damned, you still have to build a set-up and a team.
Simon
I have no animosity to Southgate( now, the people who appointed him, that’s a different matter)
A couple of points, managing a national team is emphatically not being a manager.
I claim no insight, a little thought will tell you that, a free pick of all available players, not having to coach them, or motivate them, no budget, no expense, no obstructiveness, absolute obedience to instructions, a complete group of assistants for all ancillary duties, and you get rid of them within three weeks.
To manage a club, now there’s a job, if it is a small club the problems are too many to list here.
If a giant, don’t even go there, they want success, and they want it now. The players are prima donna’s,(they are richer than you)
You must coach them(that should be fun)
You must tell them not be on the town with a young woman who is not their wife after midnight(she is of course their fitness instructor, and her strong point is demonstrating exactly how to keep fit, honest)
You must keep them out of gaol(fortunately they are pretty experienced in the rules of evidence(particularly with regard to drugs)
On the other hand. All that can be for nought.
Look at Burnley yesterday, winning 2-1 without a shot on target. The fans won’t care one bit. And why should they?
AKBoro’s three home matches against Leeds also make for a very interesting comparison. 55% of the ball in the first, a 0-0 draw where the chances really only started coming once Adomah and Ledesma were introduced. 64% of the ball and 27 (twenty-seven) shots on goal in the second… yet we still lost 0-1. Only 41% of the ball and a mere two shots on target in the third… yet three goals, three points and a clean sheet!
You could say we had all of the luck in the last game and none of it in the other two. I think you could also argue that pressure, and trying too hard, had something to do with it. In the first situation we were in the midst of a very long and painful goal drought, meaning that nerves were likely to be amplified in front of goal beyond belief. In the second we were coming off the back of a cup exit and a draw at Birmingham, and were quite desperate for a home win. We went behind very early on, robbing us of the traditional “grab the lead and take control” method that served us so well throughout a good deal of the 2010s. This upped the pressure on our forwards when the chances fell to them. In the third? We were on run of, I think, six wins out of six in league and cup, the momentum and belief was with us, and Nugent got that early goal which enabled us to stay in the ascendancy. It was reminiscent of England’s 3-0 win over Denmark in the World Cup in 2002 – how England and Boro won 3-0, you never knew, but they did because the opposition gifted them the goals and they never looked in danger.
I think that’s a CRAZY great response !!
OFB
Good report RR and that’s how I saw it too.
Now I’m one for “robust” tackling and when challenging for the ball but I thought the ref was over lenient on the two City centre halfs what I thought were pretty reckless challenges on Hugill.
Jumping through the man at pace from behind isn’t, for me, a fair or robust challenge I see it as dangerous play because Hugill has no way of defending himself. They were pleading they got the ball which was true. The fact the clattered straight through the man from behind didn’t seem to matter. If the ref had shown a yellow card to Hanley for the first one I don’t think the other centre half (?) would have been quite so reckless.
On Wings yellow card I thought he gave it for kicking the ball away after he’d blown for a foul as he indicated down field where Wing had knocked the ball. That Wings leg was already in motion to kick the ball as he was blowing for said foul was a bit harsh imo. Strange he didn’t even talk to the City player, who had already been booked, who then cleaned Wing out with a late challenge.
Did SG listen to the message boards and sack Southgate to early, In my honest opinion a big YES. When he was sacked I was shocked and surprised, even angry, I had been at the Riverside the night before and had left very happy after the victory which left us well placed in the league. Would we have gone on to win the league, get automatic promotion or even make the playoffs, nobody will ever know.
Could Southgate have gone on to be Boro’s Sean Dyche, Eddie Howe or, dare I say it, Alex Ferguson, nobody will ever know. What we do know, without being a manager at any other club side, he has gone on to be one of the successful England managers (so far), without taking into account his success as England U21 manager, now he is being spoke of as Man Utd next manager, arguably the biggest club in the world.
We all talk about players Boro let go that then went on to a very successful career but Southgate could turn out to be our biggest mistake ! If you are wondering if I was a big fan of Southgate, yes I definitely was and still are, l think some of his many attributes are, he is articulate, remains calm under pressure, he is a gentleman (not many about these days) I also believe he is very honest.
I agree there is no point in looking back saying “if we only knew then” but I do hope SG has learnt not to react to armchair managers on message boards when the team hits a bad spell, as all teams do during each season. Maybe that’s why I defend managers when I see responses after a defeat or he doesn’t select certain players in the starting eleven.
These are my honest thoughts and not meant to criticise anyone as we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Come on BORO.
Well put indeed. I always felt that Gareth was appointed too soon and that it would have been better for him to be number 2 for a while first.
He has proved his ability now and I for one wish he was in charge of Boro right now!
I’ve probably mentioned this before but… When a group of us from Untypical Boro met with him, I seem to recall Steve Gibson’s explanation for dismissing Southgate was that although he was a great guy who had demonstrated good leadership qualities as captain, he thought his style of management was more one of delegation to his staff (such as Colin Cooper) rather than hands on. So I think he decided he would prefer a manager who personally was working with the players every day rather than taking more of a strategic overview – though I seem to recall that method didn’t do a certain Brian Clough any harm.
Whether that was because Boro were on an indifferent home run at the time – The game before he was sacked Boro had just lost 1-0 at home to Watford, which was the third successive home defeat after losing 1-0 to Leicester and 5-0 to West Brom. At that point we were fourth in the table only 4 points from the top but only 3 points from 12th place too. So the decision was probably taken before Southgate beat Derby 2-0 and lost his job – much in the same way Monk lost his job after winning at Wednesday.
Southgate is probably ideally suited to international football as he doesn’t need to get involve with recruitment and is the kind of personality who is more of an encouraging influence than needing to accommodate or deal with players who are not buying into his methods – at least with international football you can just not call them up and don’t need to wait for the next window if they don’t fit into your group mentality.
I’ve been talking to Colin Cooper he’s agreed to do an In2View
Should be interesting as Southgate has recently dismissed him from his services with England
OFB
OFB
Exmil, if you think about it, I suppose it depends on who you are and how you’re regarded in football. Robbo was give more rope than a circus tent but still failed to deliver, but instead of sacking him SG gave him a Venables card to get out of jail with. All gave Southgate was the sack, criminal.
Southgate should never have been made Manager during that period of time. The club was cost cutting and pulling the rug from under his feet and all this while he was totally inexperienced and to make matters worse Donkeys being signed “for him” to replace top class players (by Boro standards probably the best we will see in a lifetime). Cynically I have a feeling that having a naive manager in place at that point in time suited MFC. The consequence however was the Strachan experiment when it was realised that experience was required and again the Club got it badly wrong.
For Gareth it was a case of the right manager but wrong time and place, the club needed an experienced one like say a Pulis or even an O’Neil and with Gareth as an assistant. There are mumbles already about Woody being lined up as Pulis’s replacement, imagine if he had just came off the pitch without any previous managerial experience and thrown into the role in a club in financial and footballing free-fall.
It was a stupid and very ill considered appointment. In fairness to Gareth (and with hindsight) had he not gone when he did the damage may have been irreparable. Delighted for him that he was able to rebuild and succeed now being much older, wiser and experienced.
SG probably did Southgate a favour. His appointment as the under 21’s manager put him in the perfect place to mould the future of the senior team. When the position of senior England manager came up he was able to hit the ground running.
Let’s not forget it wasn’t a popular announcement and the favourite was Harry Redknapp.
Agree RR – Gareth would have been better turning the job down!
Birmingham were a bunch of old pros who were quite prepared to kick anything that moved. Their basic attacking ploy was to lump it up to Jutkiewicz and chase the knockdown. Boro could easily have been rattled but they all knuckled down and fought when they had to and provided enough good football to deserve the win.
It would have been easy for them to lose it after they scored but they did what was necessary and got the reward.
The defence was really solid and deserves a lot of credit but I was particularly impressed by Wing and Savile who did masses of covering and tackling but still had the drive to get up and support Hugill who was battered all day. I think that they will become an important partnership and both have a touch of devil about them and a sense of where the goal is.
Clayton did what he always does and Howson was solid but not inspired. The only disappointment for me was Besic who didn’t really have an impact.
Playing at home next week it will be interesting to see if either Tavernier or VLP gets a start and whether he plays two up front. He could even play without Clayton but I doubt it.
Assuming Flint and Shotton are still injured, it will probably be a question of the back four, Clayton, Wing and Saville plus one out of Besic, Tavernier, Howson, Downing and VLP in support of Hugill and Assombalonga. The other four on the bench plus Gestede, McNair and a keeper.
The interesting question for me is to ask how TP will fit in the attacking players that he is looking to buy. Who makes way?
UTB
I’d drop Besic who has been on a steady decline of late and may need the kick up his jacksie (along with his agent). I’d play both Britt and Jordan up front instead of him or at least VLP or Tav. If we slacken the handbrake there could be more goals in this team and certainly more than we would concede I suspect.
Too many haven’t forgiven him for the Cardiff disaster, similarly, Aitor and the play-off failure.
Alternatively…
– Both were two years into their first job.
– It was only one game.
– Imagine if Boro had gotten the early break each time and set the pattern of command? It is far from uncommon for teams to be hit by hammer blows and not recover.
I was angry at the time. Of course I was. But you learn more from defeat and experience. As Mr. Dyche has, and his club don’t seem to wail at setbacks like we do.
Here’s an extract from AV, after Boro drew 2-2 with United and Alves got off the mark. That was in early 2008.
Loved that game, still do. Paraphrasing included.
“On MOTD2, Gareth Southgate was asked: ‘Can you sum up the enigma that is Middlesbrough in less than 20 words?’
“His reply? “No – and that is 19 less than you offered.”
“That shows honesty, self awareness and humilty… a certain level of insight into the inpenetrable nature of the riddle. It reveals that he is coming to terms with the question.
“After eight years as player and boss he has seen it all, the frustrations and the glories, the coupon busting wins against all the odds and the inexplicable craven capitulations at the beckoning open doors of success – Cardiff, Steaua, Eindhoven, Cardiff again.
“He has had to cope with the turmoil of the terraces that goes with that too. He has broken down the intellectual and emotional impact of that and reduced his experience to one word. That is good.
“But all true Teesside zen masters of the Holgate know the true essence of the dichotomy is actually summed up in two: Typical Boro.
“It’s a knowing phrase that, pronounced correctly, is spat out like an obscenity. One that combines disgust, betrayal, righteous anger, world weary cynicism, bloody-minded defiance and a kernel of hope, an eternal flame of perverse optimism that can be fanned into glorious life by defeat as readily as victory.
“We shall overcome. Erimus. The nature of the club, the strength, is derived from a unity in moments of despair.
“Southgate is starting to understand the depth of the enigma which is a start. Steve McClaren and Bryan Robson – the two most successful managers in the club’s history – never even acknowledged there was a question, let alone tried to grasp the answer.
“I like Gareth Southgate. He is honest and open in answering even the most difficult questions in a way that is rare with managers, and even though that opens you to quite vicious attacks from supporters, and sneering ones from the press, when things are going wrong, he has never retreated from that during the tough times.
“He has a dry sense of humour, a dignity in defeat and a willingness to accept that he is still learning. His post-match interviews are articulate, frank and press a lot of emotional buttons that suggest he is acutely aware of how the supporters are reading the situation… One day he could be a true zen master and unravel the enigma.”
What a contrast with the broken man we saw at the Hawthorns the following year. But he learned.
A few weeks ago some fans were not only writing Boro out of the picture for automatic promotion but even the playoffs. But a long unbeaten run could change all that. Already we have witnessed a 12 match unbeaten run by Norwich who even before that began there was gloom and despondency at Carrow Road. The same goes for Hull City who were in a relegation dogfight before their latest 9 match unbeaten run and are now only 4 points behind 6th place Derby County. Leeds United have never been outside the top 6, but 7 wins in a row with a long injury list has seen them reach top of the table and possibly favourites for promotion.
Now all these teams play attractive football, so some might say that a team like Boro who don’t play attractive football wouldn’t be able to sustain a long unbeaten run. Well I wouldn’t have said that Cardiff City were an attractive team to watch last season, but they often soaked up pressure early in matches before pouncing to score and win matches in the second half. Some also might say that Tony Pulis’s negative approach to matches doesn’t lend itself to confidence that Boro could go on a long unbeaten run, but why not 3 unbeaten is a start.
Let’s remember that Aitor Karanka’s style of playing didn’t please everyone. But in the 2014/15 season Boro twice went on significant runs from the of 13th September to the 13th of December when they won 9 and drew 6 matches with just one defeat followed by a 9 match unbeaten run from Boxing Day to the 18th of February which included 6 wins. What’s more Boro only lost one home game from their final 20. The following season they only lost one home game from their final 21, incidentally to Nottingham Forest in both seasons.
So in conclusion if Boro can maintain their outstanding away form and win perhaps 9 of their remaining 10 home games, that might well secure automatic promotion. If they could do it under Karanka, who is to say they can’t do it under Pulis?
I noticed in one of the comments the use of the F word. I’m sure most would agree there is no place on this forum for foul language.
CRAZY!
OFB
Resolution
It’s that time of year to make some promises
These resolutions to satisfy, those doubting Thomas’s
So, to start them off, I’ll lay off me fags
It’ll bring me peace, from she who nags
Then to those who may, greet this with mirth
I’ll, go on a diet, to reduce me girth
Now this challenge, caused me to have some fear
Cause I’m pledging to cut down, (just a little bit) on me beer
I Know I might find this vow, extremely wearing
But I’ve agreed with her, to give up me swearing
And the next one hopefully, will prevent the sweating
From urging on the dogs, because it’s no more betting
I’ll help with the housework, no more of me skiving
I won’t do any more of this, ducking and diving
My beloved Boro, will just have to wait
I’ll fix the wobbly fence and the broken garden gate
So, the new year dawns, bringing those steely resolutions
Will they give to me, life’s own grand solutions?
Lunchtime comes, this day’s been ever such a drag
So, I quickly nip outside and have a fag
Pop back quietly into the kitchen and I do espy
In the fridge, two chicken legs and a midget pie
I wolf them all down and with a sheepish grin
Think that I’d rather be fat, than extremely thin
Now me belly feeling full after having the grub
I really fancy a couple of beers, down at the local pub
Where are you going? our lass asks, as I kiss and hug her
Just you never mind, you, silly old buzzer
So, there’s no time to waste, no real time to fret
I’ve just got enough hours, to place a bet
Sop the fence that’s to mend, delay the garden to furrow
I’m off to the footie and my beloved Boro
This resolution lark is wearing mighty thin
I’m just going to toss them all, right into the bin
So, I’ll have a smoke of me fag and drink a glass of me beer
They can all soxxing wait, till next bloody year
OFB
Grovehillwallah
Spotted by Werdermouth and reminded the perpetrator ‘that house rules don’t allow the gratuitous use of the F word’ and edited and replaced it.
The whole Southgate scenario seems to echo the manner in which I defended him and another novice Boro manager.
“Maybe, just maybe, he needs more time and breathing space to figure it all out.”
But – as I’ve also said – this is the real world.
Those who don’t pay for tickets – me, for the most part, included, simply because of location, finances, circumstances etc – will be more inclined to cut the manager slack than those who do.
Tees Exile (note the name) and his devastating words from 2015 touched a nerve with me. Paraphrasing included of course.
“As someone who doesn’t live in the area and has to observe Boro from afar I find this whole discussion surreal.
“Did we lose on Friday? Have we lost four out of five, rather than won four out of five? Are we third bottom? Did the win at Manchester United not happen?
“Maybe I am missing something, but I can’t get my head around complaints that we are not winning games well enough. Someone earlier said that beating Leeds 3-0 wasn’t good enough and showed how weak the team was.
“Papering over the cracks. Seriously? Are we suddenly Barcelona? Step back and listen to yourselves. When did Boro fans turn into Geordies? Or Manchester UNited and Arsenal fans, on 606, ringing up to complain about a long two year trophy drought. Or those who moan about a crisis after a mere two games without a win.
“I just don’t get it. To be honest, I’m confused. And a little bit embarrassed.
“I’m delighted to see Boro well placed, hard to beat, winning plaudits from the experts, and winning games by hook-or-by-crook. I grew up being told that ‘winning when you are not playing well is the sign of a good side’.
“But no. Now I realise it is the sign of a poor side just staggering through.
“I just don’t get it. Boro fans always used to be stoic and cynical and supportive even through the bad times. Of which they were plenty. I grew up with a side that fell just short of promotion from the second division every year who were idolised and roared on by the Ayresome Angels.
“Now Boro fans seem to be touchy, fickle and overly critical even in the good times. What is going on? Why so fragile?”
I think he – and I – demanded fairness. But life isn’t.
Simon, unfortunately the Robson era followed by the McClaren era has built a lot of Boro fans expectations beyond anything realistic. Those times built on Gibson’s money will not be repeated in the near or mid future, getting into and staying in the Premiership is the best we can hope for but it is not enough for some fans. Some believe we should be beating every team in the championship and running away with the league but there are a lot of teams with a better history and fan base, along with higher home attendance who still can’t get out of the championship.
Come on BORO.
We were utterly spoiled between 1994 and 2006. After Europe there was only one way – down. And no one has really re-adjusted to that.
“If I hadn’t seen such riches I could live with being poor.” — Tim Booth
So very true Simon. The generation of fans who started watching in that era expected more. Us long standing supporters know better!
I told my kids that it wouldn’t always be the glory days and following Boro will involve pain!
UTB
I started in 1965. Each decade has produced an exciting period…
‘66
74/76
84/86
94/97
02/05
I reckon we must be due one….
Actually you could include the Karanka years, but they were spoiled by the abysmal season in the PL.
I maintain, albeit on reflection, that you can’t let one bad year (c. March 2016-March 2017) colour at least two good ones, especially if said bad year had its moments.
He still lives a charmed life with most at Boro and Forest, and did with me. So clearly “two out of three” is good enough for most. For others it can be the equivalent of a fine three course dinner that ends with a wasp in the trifle.
The balance sheet was certainly a lot healthier when the Basque one departed. That and I felt all the better having taken the time to learn more about tiki-taka and catenaccio tactics (effective more than pretty), although I understand not everyone did.
As, I think, Len implied, reviewing a game is different from enjoying it in the moment. Enlightening? Certainly. Entertaining? That’s the problem, although we know what Alan Durban would have to say about that.
I’d also add that 2005-06 was one of my favourite seasons – the tally of eighty-five goals we scored that season is among the highest from the nineties onwards. That, and there was melodrama aplenty.
Some great posts on the blog, lads and lasses. And thanks to Werder and RR for their usual sterling efforts.
Great win at Brum, and I must say, from my perspective, quite unexpected. I thought we’d lose!
I missed some of the earlier posts. Did you all comment on Karanka’s departure from Forest? Does anybody else think, like me, that he has now well and truly burned his boats? Walking out on one club looks unfortunate, but walking out on two looks careless……. if I was a club chairman, I doubt very much that I would be prepared to take a punt on Karanka from now on, whatever his record.
Clive
I know a former manager of Man U who might !
OFB
Clive
We don’t know the full facts about Karanka leaving. He may have spat out his dummy, but since Billy Davies left in June 2011 Forest have had 9 managers. In fact since Brian Clough left after 18 years in charge in 1993, Forest have had 20 managers. Most locals are fed up with all these changes, all they want is some stability.
Just had a quick look at February’s fixtures. Could be either……
The Month of Death
Fabulous February
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/middlesbrough/scores-fixtures/2019-02
Tough run of fixtures but critical will be how TP sets his side up in those games. Whatever he does I just hope I don’t have to witness his “Villa tactics” ever again. Meek negative surrendering is not something I warm to. In the words of Iron Maiden:
“Sometimes you win, Sometimes you won’t, Sometimes you beat that devil, Sometimes you don’t.
We’re all just killing time till the good Lord calls us home
And the best that you can hope for is to die,
With your boots on”
What a wonderful world ….
Please hymn with me, lads and lasses. This year has started well and we look to be back to normal. That’s what I said a few weeks ago that normal is better what was server back then. And some thought that lower form was a new norm.
I know Ian is on holiday, so I remind us all to look at the league table. It never lies.
Let’s enjoy the season now for a change and I hope this and next year will be a special moment for GHW. Up the Boro!
Just for you PPP…….😉
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/747705/david-cameron-shed-twitter-brexit-theres-may-conservative-prime-minister-no-confidence
Any dead pigs in your shed GHW?
Tony Pulis on Lewis Wing ‘He’s been a breath of fresh air, but he has a lot to learn. Sometimes he goes AWOL in the team shape. We must be careful with him’.
I wish Pulis would stop giving young players praise in public, but then tempering the praise with criticism. By all means praise players and encourage them, but keep it in house.
Ken
Just imagine how Mrs Pulis feels, in fact we should maybe invite her on here as a form of support therapy!
Mrs P “How was your dinner Tony”?
TP “Wonderful Debs, absolutely great, your best ever but the gravy was a bit cold and there probably wasn’t enough stuffing with the Turkey, oh and next time don’t forget to put a bit more apple in the crumble”
TP is from Newport and about to become an adopted Teessider with those comments.
Actually as I say to my missus after a dinner ….
Up the Boro!
Judging by the whole Forest fiasco over the years, you have to ask if they even want stability. What was Aesop’s moral? “If you want more because you are greedy, in the end you might find you have less.”
Karanka’s reign at Forest perhaps typifies modern football with both the short-term nature of the thinking and the complete upheaval that each new manager brings. Karanka was appointed almost exactly one year ago and subsequently signed 10 players in the January window – then in the summer he was backed to sign another 14 players. He is then dismissed only 12 months later after signing 24 players and the next man in will no doubt start the whole process again. No wonder agents are rich men in football!
Si
It wasn’t the fault of Forest Management only one fella to blame !
OFB
In this case, Bob, I’m not just talking about Aitor. They’ve had countless managers.
Hiring and firing repeatedly without a succession plan is no recipe for stability. That, I think, is why WBA keep yo-yo-ing.
Si
We are a yo-yo club unfortunately!
The model I thought we should follow was the one used by Southampton and Cardiff
They had good Academies with young players coming through whom they sold for vast profits
Managers came and went on to manage larger clubs but the coaching philosophy and infrastructure never changed over the years
They have both had a dip over the past couple of years but Cardiff have appointed one of the old school managers and so now have Boro in Pulis
It is a successful model to use and stops us changing out wholesale lists of players and coaching staff but just changing the figurative head
We currently have three players from the Academy playing in our team (exc Downing) and after talking to the Academy staff they have said there are a lot more on the fringes ready to come through
So whilst we don’t get parachute payments next season I don’t think Steve Gibson is too worried as he is one year into a three or five year plan to make tje Boro a consistent team in the Premiership
OFB
Can we start with 4-4-2 in the next two home matches, please? I would like to see Britt Assombalonga more. And starting with Fletcher or Hugill.
Britt Assombalonga’s goals have come from 1,498 minutes and work out a goal for every 166 minutes, which is just over one in two matches.
Up the Boro!
Ian, there are some huge Gills around. I wonder if you are related to Jordan Hugill. Just asking, like as you both heritage from Teesside.
Up the Boro!
Just heard Martin O’Neill is set to be announced as the new Forest manager – I wonder how long that will last…
He’ll be gone by the summer I reckon. Its a poisoned chalice, how is a Manager supposed to work with a squad of players formed in the style and preference of the previous manager who had just ripped up the squad and methodology of the one before him (Warburton).
Aitor spent over £23m in the summer, signing 17 players including one that he spent a club record £13.2m on, Joao Carvalho. I doubt there is more money to spend due to FFP so Martin is stuck with what he has at his disposal. Thats not to say based on their Riverside showing that they are not good enough but all managers have their particular preferences and tend to shoe horn their tactics into clubs rather than model tactics on what they have at their disposal (cites Britt Assombalonga). O’Neill may of course confound this being older and wiser and realising the immediacy of the situation and work with what is already there but if not then there is going to be more disruption and yet another settling in period.
It does appear that the atmosphere during training with AK at Forest has been a bit strained and distant. That could be the AK we all know about only too well or the constant veiled threat hanging over his head eventually leaving him dispirited and fed up. Either way the two together was a toxic mixture waiting to explode. Its a shame because AK does have his merits but until he learns, accepts and addresses his frailties he will always be just another manager. Hard to think that his mentor Mourinho learned his craft under Bobby Robson yet clearly didn’t learn anything about people skills.
I would love to spend a few hours with the two of them together, reviewing their careers, highs and lows. Identifying their pluses and minuses and then adding a third column for Sir Bobby and asking them to do the same exercise on his career. Analysing where the differences are and is it remotely possible that there will be a few ticks in Mr. Robson’s column that are ominously empty in theirs? Sad thing is no doubt the chosen one wouldn’t shut up for long enough quoting his historical trophies to get the point.Their mutual stubbornness is what has brought them both success and self destructive failure.
17 players is a heck of a lot, which means either a heck of a lot were shipped out or If that wasn’t the case then there must have been a lot of disgruntled players still at the club.
Hardly conducive to a settled atmosphere at the club.
Just looking at the website Transfermarkt it lists 17 arrivals (5 on loan) at Forest plus a further 6 players who returned back to the club after loan spells. In terms of departures, there were 14 players who left the club permanently but it raised only £0.75m with another 8 being sent out on loan. So all-in-all 23 players in and 22 players out – sounds like a busy summer!
Forest looked a well balanced team when they tore us apart this season at home
OFB
RR
Good post and I had heard a few weeks ago about the ongoing problems with AK at Forest Then on Saturday was told he would be out in a few days and lo and behold he was.
I’m told that it was allegedly a recurring result of his attitude and creating divisions within the squad.
O Neil is good at unifying players and I think will create a challenge to us for a play off spot
OFB
At least Martin O’Neill has a good standing with the supporters as he was inducted into the club’s Hall of Fame – though as far as I recall he is not the kind of person who will accept being messed around by the board. He may last until the summer as it’s probably his only chance of actually signing a player – though he is the kind of personality who will motivate players so Forest could be a danger. Having said that MON has not managed in the Championship for 22 years since he took Leicester up in 1996!
Only £0.75m raised! And we moan about our recruitment dept.
No match report in “the game” supplement in today’s “Times” (unlike The Sunday Times” yesterday”) – journos too busy reporting on Spurs vs ManU! – but the Championship round-up on the back page leads with the heading “Remarkable rise of Wing keeps Boro flying high” & names him player of the week:
“Lewis Wing, Middlesbrough: The 23-year-old was playing in the ninth tier of English football 18 months ago with Shildon in the Northern League. A first league goal and a though ball for a winner in the 2-1 away win to Birmingham made it a fine day.”
🙂
For me Wing is the player Assombalonga needs in the side. Britt has never been a big bruising centre forward or one that holds up play, out muscling opponents while his team mates get up and support. Without doing any research whatsoever my lasting impression and gut instinct of Britt even before he signed for us was running through on goal and scoring, not waiting for a cross to be delivered and out jumping two central defenders.
That said Britt can do a job in the air and indeed has been more than useful defending corners where he gets his head to quite a few but its not his “A” game. Much in the same way that Stuani was never a right sided wide man and Rhodes was never a lone striker. If we drew up a list of the most prolific Championship strikers, Britt would be right up there.
To me Lewis Wing could be the Ramirez we are looking for, the one that picks out a killer pass and has a few goals in him as well. The interesting thing is that I would imagine Wing is difficult to pigeon hole therefore difficult to contain or mark and indeed perhaps difficult to select for the same reason?
RR
Deeply shocked at your closing remark re. Wing ” he might be difficult to select”
I trusted you as one of the first to realise that we had finally got lucky in the market. But any remarks such as that will only encourage more crazy selections in future. Which would not be good for the team, or us supporters.
Redcar Red,
As far as I am concerned, which means nothing, unpredictable is good, really good. Difficult to play against and difficult for opposing managers to pigeon-hole and snuff out.
On a different tack I am sure that there must be managers out there that look at Boro and the players and wish they could manage them, given the opportunity. Although I do agree that the Wing/Tav pairing need to be brought on carefully the former is there and should play every game. the selection headache should be the opposition manager’s problem.
One thing is for sure covetous glances will be being made in his direction but then if you have a good player they always will be coveted, so that should be a positive problem for Boro. Sometimes the solutions are closer to home than you think.
UTB,
John
Plato
Wing would be the first name on my team sheet but I’m not the one that instills team shape, defence and discipline over creativity, flair and goals. As in life we need balance and too much of something (like 5 defensive midfielders) isn’t necessarily good for us.
STIRCRAZY
Well spotted
Wing will Fly and possibly Fly off to warmer pastures to make a big nest egg if we don’t look after him
One good thing is his family are all Boro daft so that may mean he’s caged for a while and Trill us all!
OFB
Original ofb
Yes, more and more people are realising the true value of Wing, one hopes the club realise it too. It is most important that they see to it that his salary scale reflects his importance to the team, with, of course, an extension to his contract, and I do mean this week, times awastin.
Having persuaded the manager to put Wing in the side on a permanent basis, can we now have young Tav in there as well. We would up our points considerably with that combination, never mind the fact that the team are much happier and play better with their attacking instincts.
Just time for a belated thank you to Redcar Red for his match report.
I hope that TP continues with his more forward team selection and goes further by including Britt from the off against Millwall at the expense of Besic.
When you give Britt the right ball to his feet looking forward he will score you goals. TP has under used him in that sense. Wing has improved that area and without placing too much pressure and expectations on him, he should be given an extended run to make mistakes, learn from them and improve.
Did everybody notice Rudy did not make the bench on Saturday. I did hear there is a good chance he could be away this window.
Jack Charlton’s decision to quit Middlesbrough FC in April 1977 came as surprise as he had not lined up another appointment at the time, saying that one should never outstay one’s welcome and that perhaps a change of style might be required if Boro were to make the next step forward.Certainly gates had fallen from an average of 28,605 in Boro’s return to the First Division to 21,480. The London press had labelled Middlesbrough FC as ‘boring Boro’ and whether some Boro fans felt the same I don’t know, but a 25% decrease in attendances was quite significant. Boro had finished 7th, 13th and 12th in Jack’s three seasons. The one thing thrown at Jack was his reluctance to spend money when clearly it was obvious that the squad needed new blood. Nevertheless they had accomplished something that no Boro side had done since 1947 in reaching two quarterfinals and one semifinal of the FA Cup as a First Division side.
John Neal had been head-hunted by Boro from Third Division Wrexham and his first season as manager was one of adjustment. John Mahoney was bought from Stoke City and made his debut in the first match of the season, a 1-1 home draw against Liverpool before a crowd approaching 31,000, and after a 2-0 home win over Newcastle, Billy Ashcroft purchased from Neal’s former club Wrexham made his debut. Unfortunately Boro only took one point from the next 5 matches and Boro were struggling in 17th position with only 6 points from their first 8 matches although during that period they did manage to beat Sunderland in the League Cup after a replay.
However Boro then took 7 points from their next 4 matches which included 2-1 home wins over both Manchester United and Leeds United as well as their first away win of the season, 2-0 at West Ham. Boro did well to draw away to high-flying Everton in the League Cup, but lost the replay. Nevertheless a mid-table position after the first dozen matches wasn’t too bad. The main trouble though was a shortage of goals. A meagre 4 goals from the next 10 matches restricted Boro’s progress, although it did include home and away 1-0 wins against Aston Villa.
By this time Graeme Souness had been transferred to Liverpool, but remarkably Boro went on a winning streak of 7 successive wins. Newcastle 4-2 and Birmingham 2-1 were beaten away in the League, West Brom 1-0 and Derby County 3-1 at home in the League, and Coventry 3-0, Everton 3-2 and Bolton Wanderers 2-0 all dispatched at home in the FA Cup. A creditable goalless draw away to Manchester United preceded what appeared to be a route for Boro’s second ever FA Cup Semifinal. Leyton Orient had surprisingly beaten Chelsea in the 5th Round after a replay, but typically Boro couldn’t beat Orient, and 3 days later found themselves 0-2 down in the replay. A late goal from David Armstrong proved merely a consolation with Wembley only one match away, so it was hardly surprising that the following Saturday at Elland Road that a demoralised Boro should suffer their heaviest defeat 0-5 for over 10 years. From then on the season petered out with only two more wins as Boro finished 14th. Only 42 goals had been scored in the 42 league matches, of which David Mills scored 10.
1978/79 saw the debuts of 5 new players. Pat Cuff and then debutant David Brown had taken over the goalkeeping duties from the injured Jim Platt. But with Cuff also out injured, Jim Stewart was bought from Kilmarnock. Youngsters Mark Proctor and David Hodgson were brought into the squad, as well as strikers Mickey Burns from Cardiff City and later in the season Bosco Jankovic, a Bosnian from FC Zeljeznicar. After losing at home to Coventry in the first match then winning at Birmingham in the second one Boro dropped to 19th after securing only 2 draws in the next 7 matches. On top of that, Third Division Peterborough eliminated Boro from the League Cup. Three successive 2-0 wins at home to Norwich and Wolves and away at Villa alleviated the position, but the next 15 matches produced not only 2 league wins, but elimination from the FA Cup to Second Division Crystal Palace after a replay. Strangely one of those wins was completely out of character, a 7-2 win at home to bottom-placed Chelsea with 4 goals from Mickey Burns. However Boro were back down to 19th and in serious trouble.
Boro broke that losing sequence with a 3-1 victory at Wolves, but then lost their next match at home to Everton. What followed though was quite remarkable; 7 wins and 3 draws in the following 10 matches. True, only 3 of those matches were away from home, but one of them was against Spurs who they beat twice in seven days. Gates had now dropped below 18,000, although 32,214 withnessed the final match of the season to welcome Champions Liverpool, a 0-1 defeat that had Boro finishing 12th. However, it must be said that the football produced by Boro especially in the second half of the season had been the most attractive since the 1974/75 season. Boro actually scored 57 goals and conceded 50. Mickey Burns scored 14, David Armstrong 11 and Mark Proctor 9.
Hopes were high for the 1979/80 season, especially with the signing of Irving Nattrass a record £475,000 buy from Newcastle plus the emergence of Craig Johnston as a regular in the team. However the downside was the the transfer of Stuart Boam to Newcastle. The season started well with a 3-1 win at Spurs followed by a 3-0 home win over Manchester City. An unbeaten home run of 9 matches had Boro in 6th place by the end of November despite the old failing, a paucity of goals. The second half of the season was much more productive in the goalscoring department. Although their unbeaten home record was broken by Southampton, they were to lose only two more home matches to Stoke City and Coventry City. They held Manchester United to draw in January before their biggest crowd of the season 30,587 and also had notable away wins at Crystal Palace, Wolves and Villa before ending the season with a flourish – consecutive home wins over Liverpool 1-0 and Arsenal 5-0. A finishing position of 9th was the best for 5 seasons but disappointingly attendances were only marginally better than the previous season. David Armstrong was top scorer in league matches with 11 goals and Mickey Burns scored 10.
John Neal’s final season began with a thumping 0-3 at Old Trafford followed by another one 2-5 at Crystal Palace, but a 1-0 win at Sunderland (only their second there for 60 years in the top flight) suggested that things might improve. However it proved to be a false dawn as Boro were only able to take 3 more points on the road, a win at Brighton and a draw at Highbury. Their away form was abysmal, the worst since Boro’s inaugural season way back in 1899. It was just as well that Boro’s home form was excellent – 14 wins, 4 draws and only 3 defeats, and scoring 38 to boot. Boro had already beaten Leeds 3-0 and Arsenal 2-1 so their home match against Norwich City in early October was chosen as Match of the Day for BBC viewers. I have recently watched a recording of that match which Boro won 6-1, a scoreline that flattered the visitors. Boro could, no indeed should have doubled that score. There were several other notable wins that season, 4-1 against Spurs, 1-0 against Everton, 2-1 against second placed Ipswich and 1-0 against Sunderland, a rare double over the Mackems before 35,065, the biggest league attendance at Ayresome Park in the season. Bosco Jankovic was top scorer in the League for Boro with 12 goals and Craig Johnston scored 10.
However the largest attendances for the season were reserved for another excellent FA Cup run. Boro’s poor away form attracted the BBC cameras to the Vetch Field where Second Division Swansea City were expected to cause an upset in the 3rd Round. However at times being overran by the Welsh side Boro were excellent on the counter attack especially with the pace of David Hodgson. The result was never really in doubt once Billy Ashcroft and Michael Angus had both scored just before halftime. A David Hodgson goal followed a couple of minutes later by Terry Cochrane’s fabulous overhead kick before a further Hodgson goal ensured a 5-0 victory. West Brom and Third Division Barnsley we’re dispatched as Boro again reached the Quarterfinals for another home tie with Wolves. Boro had already beaten Wolves 2-0 at home in the League, so were firm favourites to reach the Semifinals. However a 1-1 draw meant a replay at Molineux 3 days later. Boro were behind at the interval, but a David Hodgson goal 20 minutes from time took the match into extra time, but unfortunately Wolves scored twice more, and Boro had lost another opportunity to at least reach their first Semifinal.
Many have said that Cup defeat started the slide for Boro. Boro sold Craig Johnston under acrimonious circumstances and John Neal, like Jack Charlton before him, resigned after only 4 seasons questioning the ambition of the club. More about that later following the appointment of Bobby Murdoch and the dive almost to oblivion.
I think it was the league cup semi not the FA cup Ken, but a great story nevertheless. Its strange how I remember all those years ago but can remember anything for 3 seasons ago!!
Allan in Bahrain
Well spotted. When I re-read it I realised that Boro had reached 2 FA Cup Quarterfinals under Jack Charlton against Birmingham City and Liverpool, whilst under John Neal 2 more Quarterfinals against Orient and Wolves. The first time they reached the Semifinals was against Chesterfield and of course the Final under Bryan Robson in 1997.As you say it was under Jack Charlton’s tenure, a League Cup Semifinal over two legs against Manchester City in 1976. My only excuse was fatigue getting the better of me, a feeble excuse I know.
Thanks, Ken. The match vs. Chelsea with 4 goals from Mickey Burns was one of my early highlights following Boro.
Has anyone scored four times since Mickey Burns for Boro?
Many happy days even though I saw Boro very seldom on TV. Luckily I was able to read all football stories about Boro on the Gazette and Echo that time. Exciting, even I usually was able to read the reports a week or two later than the match took off.
Results by listening to BBC World Service and James Alexander Gordon. Happy days. Thanks for charing, Ken.
Up the Boro!
Jarkko
Craig Hignett in a League Cup match against Brighton in 1993 and Fabrizio Ravanelli in a League Cup match against Hereford in 1996, but no one in a League match.
And now Wagner has departed from Huddersfield.
From the outside looking in its easy to unemotionally say that they should have stuck with him (if of course he wanted to stay) and chances are they would have bounced back with him next season but the fear of the drop is all consuming as we know only too well.
The last time the Terriers played in the top flight was in 1972 and like now it was only for two seasons. Before that it was three seasons from 1953 to 1956 and previous to that it was for one season only from 1951 to 52. Their only other top flight dalliance was from 1920 to 1921, another solitary season.
Their fans and board know that it could be another 60 plus years before they ever (if ever) see the Premiership again or whatever it will be called at that point in time. Most of us on here recall Barnsley and Carlisle in the top tier but their chances of a return are slim at best and that is being kind to them. Like Boro the Terriers presently can’t score goals nor even look like scoring any time soon.
Personally I think holding their nerve and sticking with Wagner would have yielded them the most opportunity for success in the long term. Just looking across the Pennines they have an excellent example of how that could have worked. There again they look at Southampton (7 points from 5 games) who are now pulling clear after ditching their Manager and possibly blinked.
They are nine points from safety with sixteen games remaining, having amassed 1 point from their last 5 games and averaging only half a point a game all season with 11 points from 22 games. Survival is nigh on impossible but never say never as miracles sometimes do happen even though we all know how this one is going to end.
Maybe Wagner felt tired and drained after all the defeats and knowing that his squad just isn’t good enough felt he had taken them as far as he could unless they spent big this month. Deep down the Chairman and Wagner I suspect both knew that commercially that could spell disaster for the club if it didn’t come off. Getting loans in is another option but how many clubs are going to loan their fringe and younger players to be emotionally scarred with the likely experience of being pummelled every week?
RR
I’m pretty sure Huddersfield won 3 back to back league titles in the mid 20s so must’ve had more than one season in the first division in the 20s?
FAA
Your’e right!
Funny even when I was typing it I was thinking when I was a schoolboy I seem to recall reading that they had won a few titles back in the day. I will ensure to delete that internet source in future research which to be fair is notoriously dubious at the best of times but the History of Huddersfield had limited appeal on Google search for some reason.
It appears that Wagner himself decided that he should leave rather than the club. A shame because he has earned a lot of respect in the game, perhaps more than he realised.
Its a funny old game!
FAA in Saudi
Correct, in fact they won 3 titles in a row from 1923/24 onwards under manager Herbert Chapman who then went on to repeat the feat with Arsenal from 1932/33 onwards.
Looking forwards there are some interesting fixtures coming along this weekend which I’m sure Werder is busy scribbling about as I type!
Norwich v Birmingham, Norwich are now drawing instead of winning and from seeing Brum recently we know they could do a job on someone on the day, I sense a draw.
FLDC v Reading, well this has a home win all over it because Reading haven’t won in ages, well until their last match that is with their new manager Hmmmm. Lets face it Derby are blowing hot and cold.
Stoke v Leeds is likely to be an away win but surely Stoke have to turn up at least once this season with all that Premiership talent at their disposal.
Swansea v Blades I suspect will be a draw, the Swans are spluttering but are a decent side deep down and capable of getting something at home.
Bolton host the Baggies on the Monday night and I can’t see Wheats and co getting anything other than a hiding.
Boro of course meanwhile have to beat Millwall meantime to make any of it worthwhile.
I don’t know what to think when a manager “walks out”. If you can even call it that. Do we prefer it if he’s sacked or poached, because at least there he doesn’t seem to be backing away from responsibility? Because if sacked, we’ve taken control. If he’s poached, it’s beyond our control.
But if he “walks out” with seemingly no thought of how a club or country built around him will cope… how are we supposed to take that?
It’s well known that after Eric Gates signing for Sunderland, not Newcastle, after Big Jack wouldn’t stump up the cash to take him to Toon, brought on Barcode cries of “SACK JACK” and “CHARLTON OUT”. Cissie Charlton was nearly crying. The big man who brought so much happiness to Boro, Sheffield Wednesday and Ireland fans effectively walked out on the spot. And got booed for his troubles… arguably by the same fans who had booed his presence in the dug out.
Football.
Lawrie Sanchez’s two years of steady progress as NI boss were nearly undone in a flash by a threat to walk out. After an unexpected 0-3 home humbling by Iceland at the start of the Euro 2008 qualifiers the press turned on him and he felt it. The team did win the next match, 3-2 at home to future champions Spain with David Healy grabbing a hat-trick, but the damage had been done. Sanchez, I believe, was left questioning why he was doing the job in the first place if him and the players were getting no respect for what they did. In the event, he did stay as manager and the team won three games out of four to go top of the group, but the freedom the press had once enjoyed was no more.
Players, too. Patrick Bamford recalls himself from loan at Palace because he feels he’s not getting a fair break. He then cries in his car at Burnley and gets a terrible chant for his troubles.
Football.
We’re not inclined to have sympathy for football figures because we pay their wages and thus expect that they “roll their sleeves up”, “get stuck in”, “have the right attitude” and “take true pride in the shirt”. And other cliches.
The truth is more complex but do we ever want to know? We and they live in different worlds and it is what it is.
Addendum: The Secret Footballer was absolutely right.
Re-picture the situation where he got the wage and big club move he’d always dreamed of… while having to move away from everyone he knew. Home, extended family, friends, life as he knew it. His wife had to do the same – with a newborn baby. She knew nobody when they moved – and nobody when they left a year later.
During that year, when he and his wife talked to each other, they hoped and prayed to go back to where they felt loved. Where they felt safest.
Not one outsider cared a jot. All they saw was a well-paid footballer not living up to their expectations.
You *do* need people around you, football or otherwise, who care about you unconditionally. Who you can trust. Who couldn’t care less about how well you’re doing in your job. What’s worse, if you’re a footballer, is the manager who “loved” you when he signed you deciding suddenly that he doesn’t love you all that much after all. The boss takes the “it’s not me, it’s you” attitude and sidelines you, the player, from his plans – how are you meant to feel?
That’s not depression, or cruelty – it’s fact. As TSF put it – the world doesn’t run on love. Football is cruel, selfish and ruthless, with moments that trick you into thinking the dream has become a reality.
You have to enjoy those moments – because those are the only things that everyone can see.
I wonder how much of that applies to George Saville.
Or Jordan and Emma Rhodes, at Boro and Sheffield Wednesday.
In response to Werder…
It may be only £0.75 million, but better to be in the green than the red.
Think of the debts we got saddled with in the post-McClaren era from those very highly paid, aging buys. The three years McClaren took to clear out the Robson debris. And Strachan, and how the buys under his reign stifled Mogga’s recruitment.
Despite temperament, debates about the quality of the football, and money spent…
Balance sheet healthier, even if only slightly in Forest’s case = check.
Club in a good position to move forward = check.
For both Boro and Forest. Not too bad at all.
I believe we broke even or made a profit on quite a number of the supposed let downs and duds from 2015-17. Espinosa and De Roon included. The former, I think, is quite happy with Stuani at Girona, where he’s made 19 appearances and scored once.
It’s documented that we got him on a free and sold him for roughly £4 million, whereas I believe we paid £8.15 million for De Roon and got roughly £12 million back.
Good Post
Si
The Echo reports that former Middlesbrough forward Cristhian Stuani is set for an unexpected January move – to become the main form of cover for Lionel Messi and Luis Suarez at Barcelona.
Stuani has a €15m release clause in his current contract at Girona, and Barcelona are set to trigger it in order to take him to the Nou Camp. The 32-year-old has been in fine form this season, scoring 12 goals for a Girona side that currently sits in ninth position in La Liga.
I my opinion we have had good strikers at Boro: Stuani, Negredo, Assombalonga, Bamford, Hugill and even Fletcher. We just seem not able to make a team around the strikers we buy. Stuani, Bamford and Assombalonga being prime examples of that.
Up the Boro!
Rhodes as well.
That’s my ticket for Newport County match purchased, let’s show TP’s old town that his new adopted town get behind their team in the worlds oldest famous competition.
I see that Cardiff are taking an interest in Mbwana Samatta of Genk, the striker I mentioned some time ago for this window.
Also it is reported that Barcelona are putting in a bid for Stuani who has a 13m release clause in his contract, funny old world.
Come on BORO.
Well done
Mrs OFB and I have our tickets too.
I don’t think we will have a huge crowd but hopefully the Boro fans will roll up
Stuani eh? Who would have thought it ?
Diasboro bloggers did !
OFB
There are 3 forms of consistency; consistenty good, consistently bad, and consistently inconsistent. Boro have sometimes been very consistent. In the 1926/27 season after taking only one point from their first 4 matches they steamrollered their way to promotion. Although they were relegated the following season they accumulated 37 points, and the following season were promoted again as Champions. I imagine it was never in doubt. Similarly in the 1950/51 season when Boro led the First Division by 3 points at Christmas they were also very consistent. The fact that they only finished 6th was due to losing top scorer Alex McCrae through injury for the second half of the season. As a Third Division side in the 1966/67 season after a woeful start, was there really any doubt that Boro would win promotion with such a winning end to the season as a crowd approaching 40,000 witnessed a 4-1 win over Oxford United in their final match. In the 1973/74 season despite losing 1-5 to Nottingham Forest, one just knew that Boro would be promoted. In all these seasons fans turned up at Ayresome Park knowing that Boro would win.
Most other seasons Boro have been consistently inconsistent especially in the FA Cup during the 1950’s when no matter how well or badly Boro were performing in the League, Boro would never even reach the 5th Round. Sometimes Boro were able to be consistently bad, inconsistent and good in the same season. The notable season that comes to mind is 1954/55 when having been relegated Boro after drawing their first match, managed to lose their next 8. They recovered and beat West Ham 6-0, lost their next match at Blackburn 0-9, then beat second placed Fulham 4-2 a week later. Now that’s real inconsistency, and yet up to Easter had an outside chance of promotion.
Strangely though Boro have not had a season when they were consistently bad. Maybe the relegation seasons of 1953/54 and 1965/66, but all that was to change after John Neal resigned stating that Boro showed no ambition. When appointed he had stated that he had great expectations of building a team fit enough to emulate Jack’s team, the so what went wrong? Probably the most significant reason was the sale of Stuart Boam to Newcastle under Chairman Charles Amer’s instructions to be replaced by Irving Nattrass and Willie Maddren having to retire 4 matches into Neal’s first season. Boam didn’t want to leave Boro. In fact he had stated that he wanted to finish his career with Boro. Nattrass only played 10 matches in his first season after sustaining an achilles injury, then had three hairline fractures of the leg. Just as Neal was building a good team that Wolves defeat in the FA Cup was the instigation of a free fall.
Boro then appointed Bobb Murdoch as manager. He had wanted the job after Jack Charlton resigned but the club had appointed Neal instead. Would he have become a good manager, who knows? But he was hamstrung by the Chairman’s insistence on selling the ‘crown jewels’. Craig Johnston had gone to Liverpool for a reported £580,000, David Armstrong to Southampton for £600,000, and Mark Proctor to Nottingham Forest for £425,000. Boro had lost it’s entire midfield in 5 months. One significant signing however was Mick Baxter from Preston, but it was always probably asking too much for a rookie manager to keep Boro in the First Division. They won two of their first 7 matches with home wins over Birmingham and Stoke City to attain 18th position, but that’s as high as they reached all season. They were poor, not only that consistently poor for the first time I can recall. They didn’t win another game for 24 matches (19 in the League) except for a League Cup win over Third Division Plymouth Argyle in the League Cup. The sequence was broken with a 1-0 win over West Brom in early March, and that match attracted the lowest league gate of the season, a mere 9,403 spectators. They did manage to win 2-0 at Roker Park and beat Notts County and Brighton at home. This season was the inaugural season for 3 points for a win, and Boro went into their last three matches on 32 points, effectively doomed but not quite. A 1-0 win at Notts County raised very slender hopes of a reprieve, but even 2 late goals at Swansea turning a 0-1 deficit into a 2-1 win signalled the inevitable relegation. To state that Boro’s top league scorers were Billy Ashcroft, Tony McAndrew and Heine Otto with 4 goals each told the story of this being the worst season to date.
If one thought that was bad enough, the next 4 seasons proved to be the worst in Boro’s history. Bobby Murdoch was sacked by new Chairman Kitching after Boro had lost their first 3 home games in the 1982/83 season all by a scoreline of 1-4 against Burnley, Fulham and Grimsby Town. In fact after 9 matches were rock bottom with a meagre 4 points. The first win was 1-0 at home to Bolton Wanderers with the lowest attendance since World War Two of 5,521. Harold Shepherdson once more took over as assistant manager until the appointment of the flamboyant character of Malcolm Allison, who had had some success at Manchester City and Crystal Palace, as the new manager. Performances on the field certainly improved at least in the short term with home wins over QPR and Barnsley, plus an away win at Charlton, but money was tight with little chance of incoming transfers. Heavy defeats to Blackburn and Wolves ensued, but attendances increased with 12,665 on Boxing Day against Leicester and 17,057 on New Year’s Day for the visit of Leeds United. But strangely two days later he discarded both Jim Platt and Terry Cochrane, even ordering them to train with the reserves following a 1-1 draw at Burnley.
Boro started their FA Cup journey with a 2-2 draw at home to non league Bishop Stortford after surrendering a 2-0 half time lead. In the replay 3 days later they reversed the procedure by overturning a 0-1 deficit at half time into a 2-1 win. Next up was a home tie with Notts County which Boro won 2-0. The local derby with Newcastle in February attracted a crowd of 25,184, the highest attendance for two years. Two more defeats preceded the Cup match with Arsenal where Boro managed to earn a replay with a last minute goal from Heine Otto. The replay took place 9 days later and Boro excelled themselves albeit with a 2-3 defeat, but the important thing was that with attendances improving, Boro might be able to strengthen their squad. Nevertheless the season meandered along despite a 1-6 thrashing to its inevitable conclusion with Boro finishing 16th. The bright thing about the season however was the emergence of some young players such as Stephen Bell, Garry Macdonald, Gary Hamilton, Darren Wood and Tony Mowbray. Top scorers in League matches were David Shearer and Heine Otto with 9 goals each.
Boro started the 1983/84 season rather brightly with 11 points from their first 5 matches including a 3-2 home win over Newcastle. Then the inevitable slump followed with 5 successive defeats. Three successive home wins over Shrewsbury 4-0, Cardiff 2-0 and Swansea raised hopes of a top half finish, but Boro showed how unpredictable they could be over Christmas and the beginning of January. After losing 0-1 at home to Carlisle United on Boxing Day, they travelled to Hillsborough the next day to face top of the table Sheffield Wednesday and came away with a 2-0 win. The following Saturday they lost to a poor Leeds United away 1-4, yet two days later beat second placed Chelsea at home 2-1. They then followed that with a 3-2 home win in the FA Cup against Arsenal. They disposed of Third Division Bournemouth 2-0 in the next round, but then lost 0-1 to Notts County in the 5th Round. By this time Boro were still mid-table in the League, but fell away to finish 17th with a new lowest crowd of 4,720 in their penultimate home game. The cause of the slump was a meeting with Chairman Mike McCullagh where Allison’s frustration boiled over in March after trying to block the sale of Darren Wood to Chelsea for £100,000. Allison stated that ‘It’s better for the club to die than to linger slowly on its deathbed”. McCullough decided to sack Allison stating that he was obviously not prepared to co-operate in saving the club.
Indeed, Ken. Great read.
And I think we remember what followed.
An old friend of Mike McCullagh happened to be a certain Jack Charlton.
We looked doomed to fall into the third tier. A perilous situation that Jack didn’t need the hassle of dealing with.
But his loyalty to McCullagh was deep. When he discovered that Jack and Pat Charlton had lost a substantial amount moving house between jobs a couple of years earlier, McCullagh had sent a cheque for £20,000 to cover the shortfall.
Jack repaid his friend but could not turn him down in his hour of need.
Three wins and three draws from the nine games which Jack managed led Boro to finish seven points clear of the drop. Survival!
A grateful McCullagh then started talking of plans and players after Boro drew 0-0 with Huddersfield, on the last day of the season, at Ayresome Park.
But Jack apologised to his good friend and walked away.
(Source: Colin Young.)
I knew Mike very well having been involved in business with him and subsequently his three sons John Rolf and Tim
Mike was noted for his philanthropic actions and it was a pity that he couldn’t take the chairmanship of Boro forward at that time
I also met Jack a few times as he used to go shooting with my Boss and he often came in my office and dropped some pheasants off
I was involved with Jack for the design and fabrication of the tv stand on the south terrace and extra crowd control barriers at Ayresome Park.
One barrier was suitably extended and my two sons and my pals son used it as a seating platform whilst we leant on it and supported the Boro from our position In the South Terrace. So I was quite pleased at the free gift which was my reward for all the unpaid hours I worked on designing the TV stand and Barriers.
Happy times
OFB
Mini talking point time. Which may inspire a larger one.
It’s roughly the twenty-second anniversary of the dreaded points deduction. Which brings me to this.
Hissy fits. Dummy spits. Running away. Storming out.
One of football, or life’s, most simple and complicated beasts.
Why do fully grown adults, or professional clubs (yes), who ought to know better, do them?
We act like they’re uncommon amongst football people. Truthfully they’re very common. It’s just that not many of them go public.
Those who condone them claim that they’re forced upon them by a truly exceptional set of circumstances, which often seems to be the case.
There is truth in that point-of-view, no question. But one also ought to be judged by the manner in which he or she deals with those circumstances.
A manager can claim that he never wanted to leave a football club in the lurch. A player can claim he only ceased trying during the last twenty minutes of a game because he was mentally struggling to cope with everything going wrong for the team on the day. A writer can claim that he never really wanted to upset people on a forum, and that he was only temporarily driven into ranting through passion and emotion. A club can claim that they were forced to take matters into their own hands regarding a postponement by an unplanned for injury and illness crisis.
But consider that word – “unplanned”. Consider also how you may come across in the eyes of those who don’t and can’t see inside your mind, and frankly wouldn’t want to either. They’re fighting their own battles, such is football’s selfish nature.
What we wanted to do is irrelevant… what we choose to do, and the consequences, are at hand.
To an extent, one can sympathise with the hissy fitters, dummy spitters, runaways and so on. If you felt your authority was being undermined, that you’d lost control, that one of your favourite football figures wasn’t getting a fair break in the eyes of too many, and were confronted with a damaging flu virus, then you might not feel the greatest either. You may feel like exploding too.
But. And here’s the big but. Where, for the most part, is the indication that they are thinking about anyone else but themselves, or justifying themselves?
It’s more logical to assume that the concern is not everyone else, but self-image. The whole unfortunate episode is a combination of anger at big plans being thwarted, fury that others considered beneath them are the thwarters, and anxiety over what the situation will make those who they want to impress think about them.
Are they truly focused on doing their best for the club and people they claim to be dedicated to? Or are they just mad because the external forces won’t allow them to play their game the way they want?
The mistake they make – a common one, alas – is thinking that life is always fair, from their point of view. That people will understand them. As I implied through TSF’s view, life doesn’t work that way.
It also goes all the way back to my Talking Point on selfishness and highlights the consequences of living in a bubble that one doesn’t want popped.
The best football people, as one of our commenters here has written, are those who are able to be most flexible, regardless of the situation and the circumstances.
I paused at this point in my historical review of the 1983/84 season to reflect on the poignancy of Malcolm Allison’s statement “It’s better for the club to die than to linger on it’s deathbed”. A damning statement, but were things that bad? Apparently so as we were to discover two years later.
Anyway as Simon said, Mike McCullough then turned to his friend Jack Charlton as caretaker manager to help Boro stave off relegation as Boro finished 17th. From conceding 87 goals in the previous season, Allison had tightened up the defence with a now fit Irving Nattrass as captain, Darren Wood, Paul Ward, Mike Baxter and Tony Mowbray to almost half the concession of goals from the previous season so in some ways one could understand Allison’s frustration boiling over, but “It’s better for the club to die!” was an outrageous statement to make and McCullough had no alternative to sack him. However Boro just couldn’t score goals, a meagre 41 in 42 matches with David Currie scoring 15 of them. After Jack Charlton’s reluctance to step in as the permanent manager, Boro turned next to the fans favourite of Wllie Maddren to take over. It wasn’t Maddren’s fault, but the seriousness of the situation was becoming more apparent as we shall see in the next two seasons, hurtful as it was I’ll report on that later.
“It’s better for the club to die than to linger slowly on its deathbed.”
That’s a real kicker.
Nothing or no one is beyond saving until it actually is beyond saving.
To borrow Arthur Conan Doyle’s reasoning, slightly, we should never consider the seemingly impossible when it is not explicitly impossible: however improbable the chance might be of survival or success, the chance is there.
I know it’s also the hope that kills you. There’s always more than one way to look at things.
And just look at the clubs out there that have been saved by die hard supporters. Even some of these enjoy a different cycle of success .. Wimbldon just one example
Well it’s time Boro ended the myth of why their home form has been less than magical so far this season. Will Tony Pulis draw inspiration from our famous 5-0 Cup win and gamble on victory or will he be looking to cautiously edge out his opponents and keep a tight grip on a play-off place. Here’s my take with this week’s discussion blog article…
https://diasboro.club/2019/01/16/2018-19-week-25-mythical-middlesbrough/