Pulis hoping for 20-20 vision to pass next promotion test

by Diasboro, posted in Uncategorized

Championship 2018-19: Week 18

Tue 27 Nov – 19:45: Preston v Boro
Sat 01 Dec – 17:30: Boro v Aston Villa

Werdermouth looks ahead to the 20-game mark in the Championship…

Time to discard those rose-tinted glasses and focus on the reality of another tough week in the Championship. This weekend will see us reach Game 20 in the current campaign and a chance to ponder over our promotion prospects this season. Back-to-back victories either side of the international break have positioned Boro quite nicely in second spot and two more wins this week could see Tony Pulis’s team edge ahead of their rivals in the race for the Premier League.

2018-19 Championship Table after 18 Games
# Team P W D L F A GD Pts
 1 Norwich City 18 11  3  4 32 21 11 36
 2 Middlesbrough 18  9  7  2 21  9 12 34
 3 Leeds United 18  9  6  3 31 17 14 33
 4 West Bromwich Albion 18  9  4  5 39 26 13 31
 5 Sheffield United 18  9  4  5 29 21  8 31
 6 Derby County 18  9  4  5 27 21  6 31
 7 Nottingham Forest 18  7  9  2 25 16  9 30
 8 Aston Villa 18  7  6  5 31 25  6 27

In some ways, Boro followers have been spoilt in their last three Championship seasons after finishing in the top six on all occasions, which ultimately saw one automatic promotion and a play-off final defeat against Norwich. With this term also shaping up to be more of the same, supporters of other clubs must glance towards Teesside with feelings of envy.

Perhaps we can look at those previous campaigns and compare how Boro were placed at the similar stage in the season at Game 20. Interestingly last season, Garry Monk’s stop-start team were sitting in sixth spot after 18 games on 29 points before two successive defeats (0-3 at home to Derby and 1-2 away at Bristol City) saw Boro slip down to ninth. Looking at the table then showed that any prospect of smashing the league had gone and more worryingly any thoughts of automatic promotion was not even cylinder of foam fumes away.

2017-18 Championship Table after 20 Games
# Team P W D L F A GD Pts
 1 Wolverhampton Wanderers 20 15  2  3 41 17 24 47
 2 Cardiff City 20 13  4  3 30 14 16 43
 3 Bristol City 20 10  7  3 32 21 11 37
 4 Sheffield United 20 12  1  7 33 24  9 37
 5 Aston Villa 20 10  6  4 29 18 11 36
 6 Derby County 20 10  5  5 30 21  9 35
 7 Ipswich Town 20 10  2  8 35 30  5 32
 8 Leeds United 20  9  3  8 30 25  5 30
 9 Middlesbrough 20  8  5  7 25 20  5 29

Big-spending Boro looked a busted flush as they sat a whopping 18 points behind Wolves and surely now an insurmountable 14 from an automatic spot. It must have been at this point that Steve Gibson decided Monk’s tenure was up as promotion looked to be slipping away. Despite beating Ipswich at the Riverside, he then lost at Millwall before winning in vain at Sheffield Wednesday, only to be dismissed at the 23-game halfway point.

In the end, Boro probably did well to finish in the play-offs and coincidentally the last four games were against the same teams as the ones that had ultimately undone Monk. However, under Pulis, Boro won three on the spin in the reverse fixtures against the Robins, Rams and Lions before getting the point they needed at the Tractor Boys. Nevertheless, Boro still ended the season as they had been after 20 games, 14 points behind an automatic promotion spot. It shows that playing catch-up at the top of the table is not easy and falling significantly behind your rivals around the halfway point means it’s a big ask to claw back the gap.

2017-18 Championship Table after 46 Games
# Team P W D L F A GD Pts
 1 Wolverhampton Wanderers 46 30  9  7 82 39 43 99
 2 Cardiff City 46 27  9 10 69 39 30 90
 3 Fulham 46 25 13  8 79 46 33 88
 4 Aston Villa 46 24 11 11 72 42 30 83
 5 Middlesbrough 46 22 10 14 67 45 22 76
 6 Derby County 46 20 15 11 70 48 22 75
 7 Preston North End 46 19 16 11 57 46 11 73
 8 Millwall 46 19 15 12 56 45 11 72

Back in 2015-16, Boro had reached the 20-game mark under Karanka in good shape as they sat in second spot on that perfect two-points-per-game target of 40. Everything looked on course for automatic promotion and Boro looked unstoppable six games later when they topped the table on 55 points, six clear of Derby in third spot and a massive ten ahead of Burnley in fourth. Though we know now that the easy way is not the Boro way and a wobble was just around the corner as Karanka’s team lost the next two before drawing the following three.

2015/16 Championship Table after 20 Games
# Team P W D L F A GD Pts
 1 Brighton & Hove Albion 20 11  9  0 29 18 11 42
 2 Middlesbrough 20 12  4  4 29 12 17 40
 3 Hull City 20 11  5  4 29 13 16 38
 4 Derby County 20 10  8  2 28 13 15 38
 5 Burnley 20  9  8  3 26 19  7 35
 6 Ipswich Town 20  8  7  5 29 27  2 31
 7 Cardiff City 20  7  9  4 24 20  4 30
 8 Sheffield Wednesday 20  7  9  4 27 24  3 30

The cushion at the top was no longer comfortable as Boro sat just one point ahead of Brighton in third, with Burnley another point further back. The pressure was now on and after defeat at Rotherham it lead to the now infamous Chaltongate as Karanka reached meltdown. It seemed Boro were set to implode but somehow the club rallied to win the next six games before drawing the next three. It left Boro needing to avoid defeat at home to Brighton in the final game in what was essentially a pseudo play-off final. After Stuani had given Boro the lead it looked good but Dale Stephens equalised in the 55th minute to add to the nerves. However, the Brighton scorer then got himself sent off four minutes late and a weary Karanka team limped over the automatic promotion line.

2015/16 Championship Table after 46 Games
# Team P W D L F A GD Pts
 1 Burnley 46 26 15  5 72 35 37 93
 2 Middlesbrough 46 26 11  9 63 31 32 89
 3 Brighton & Hove Albion 46 24 17  5 72 42 30 89
 4 Hull City 46 24 11 11 69 35 34 83
 5 Derby County 46 21 15 10 66 43 23 78
 6 Sheffield Wednesday 46 19 17 10 66 45 21 74
 7 Ipswich Town 46 18 15 13 53 51  2 69
 8 Cardiff City 46 17 17 12 56 51  5 68

If we’re looking for comparison’s to this season, then it’s perhaps the previous campaign under Karanka that saw the Championship table similarly tight at the 20-game point. Just two points separated the top four with no team on that famous two-points-per-game trajectory. Though what was interesting to note was that Boro were knocking in the goals and had amassed 33 in those opening 20 games – including two 4-0 home wins against Brentford and Norwich, plus a 5-1 thrashing of Millwall at the Den. Tony Pulis’s team will need to go on an amazing scoring spree this week and fire in 12 goals to match that feat – though the manager seems to believe it’s just matter of converting our plethora of chances.

Interestingly, by Game-30, Boro went to the top of of the table but were just one point ahead of Bournemouth in second and Derby in third. Then with ten games left to play, four of the promotion rivals (Bournemouth, Derby, Watford and Boro) were all locked together on 66 points, with Norwich just a point behind on 65. Getting to the Premier League has now become a ten game shoot-out and with five left to play still only two points separated the top four.

2014/15 Championship Table after 20 Games
# Team P W D L F A GD Pts
 1 Derby County 20 11  5  4 38 19 19 38
 2 Ipswich Town 20 10  7  3 32 20 12 37
 3 Bournemouth 20 10  6  4 39 21 18 36
 4 Middlesbrough 20 10  6  4 33 15 18 36
 5 Brentford 20 10  4  6 31 26  5 34
 6 Watford 20  9  5  6 36 22 14 32
 7 Blackburn Rovers 20  8  7  5 31 28  3 31
 8 Norwich City 20  8  6  6 30 24  6 30

Boro won their next three games and were just one point from top spot before that fateful game at Craven Cottage. It was a remarkable game that saw Boro go into the break behind after the home side scored just before half-time. When Fulham doubled their lead, Karanka made a triple substitution on the hour mark and it paid immediate dividends when Reach got one back. Sadly the comeback looked doomed when Ross McCormack scored from the spot to make it 3-1 but Boro would not give up and clawed it back to 3-3 with headed goals from Ayala and an 88th minute equaliser from Kike. Boro sensed victory and Dimi made the decision to come up for an injury-time corner – unfortunately, Fulham broke out and McCormack got his hat-trick as he placed the ball into an empty net. It was typical Boro personified and with one game to go Boro’s automatic promotion chances had ended.

2014/15 Championship Table after 46 Games
# Team P W D L F A GD Pts
 1 Bournemouth 46 26 12  8 98 45 53 90
 2 Watford 46 27  8 11 91 50 41 89
 3 Norwich City 46 25 11 10 88 48 40 86
 4 Middlesbrough 46 25 10 11 68 37 31 85
 5 Brentford 46 23  9 14 78 59 19 78
 6 Ipswich Town 46 22 12 12 72 54 18 78
 7 Wolverhampton Wanderers 46 22 12 12 70 56 14 78
 8 Derby County 46 21 14 11 85 56 29 77

Given all that excitement, it makes you sometimes wonder why Boro supporters want to leave the Championship. Still it’s the goal of making the top tier, no matter how fleeting, that drives that excitement and this week may determine how the season will eventually pan out. Tuesday evening sees Tony Pulis’s side make the trip to Deepdale, hoping to make it three wins in a row against a Preston side that have started to get their act together after a somewhat indifferent start. Having won their opener against QPR, Alex Neil’s side then failed to win any of their next nine games and dropped to bottom place on just five points.

However, since then they have won four and drawn four of their last eight games and have moved up to 16th spot. Indeed, Boro will need to be wary as they’ve netted four goals in three of their last four home games. What had a few weeks ago looked like a decent chance of three points, now must be treated as a game where Tony Pulis’s team will need to play well to return back to Teesside with even a single point. It may even be a game that the Boro manager will contemplate playing with three central defenders and a chance for Ayala to get back in the team. The question for many is whether that would be at the expense of Tavernier rather than a central midfielder – the youngster did well against Brentford and his confidence must be high after his well-taken goal.

Saturday sees yet another tea-time televised game for Boro as they host Aston Villa at the Riverside. After an indifferent season that has seen Steve Bruce shown the door, new manager Dean Smith has stared to get his players firing after recording three successive victories. Villa have now crept back up to 8th in the table, with those three wins seeing them score nine goals in the process. Again, this was another fixture a few weeks ago that looked a home banker for Boro but they once more face a team in form and finding the net. Both games this week will likely be a test of Boro’s impressive defensive record and it will need to be at its best if Tony Pulis is to consolidate his team’s position in the automatic promotion places.

Hopefully, come Saturday evening Boro will be a perfect vision at the 20-game mark as they sit comfortably on 40 points at the magic two-points-per-game. The worry for many on Teesside is that we now face two teams who could leave everyone looking over their shoulder – though surely not in the same way the ill-fated Garry Monk did one year ago.

369 thoughts on “Pulis hoping for 20-20 vision to pass next promotion test”

  3. Another good insight to this weeks games Werder
    Preston seem to know the way to the back of the net so inclined to go with OFB where the score line is concerned. Aston Villa never seem to get much joy from them, so hope Boro can can get a bit of revenge for last seasons playoffs and the gloating from their fans.
    Bri UTB

    1. Thanks Borobrie – though I’d be surprised to see either game finish 0-0 as both Preston and Villa appear to be up for scoring with the former knocking in 13 in their last 4 home games and the latter netting 9 times in their last three outings. Plus Boro have also started scoring too!

  4. Thanks, Werder. Interesting statistics as well.

    I fully expect Martin Braitwaite to be back in the starting line-up as he was rested on Saturday after playing well for Denmark. But who is to drop? I think Mr Pulis will have an idea about the Villa match in his mind already now.

    When the going gets touch, it is nice to have a large squad. I think we are better in there than Norwich as there will be two matches a week (or three if you are Pulis).

    I am hoping for a 0-1 win for the Boro with Aden Flint scoring from a corner (!). Up the Boro!

    1. Thanks Jarkko, though in theory Tavernier should keep his place over Braithwaite if the same rule applies that kept Batth in the team over Ayala. My hunch is that Pulis could return to a back three if he’s worried about the opposition’s attack and that would probably be at the expense of one of the three forwards.

  5. Just up my street Werder, showing comparative League Tables after 20 matches in Boro’s recent Championship seasons. That promotion season of 2015/16 particularly was revealing in the fact that Boro were in the middle of an astounding run of 8 wins and a draw in 9 matches in which they only scored 13 goals but didn’t concede any. After those 20 matches Boro went on to beat Burnley, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby at home, Brighton and Brentford away so had 55 points after 25 matches, so we were smashing the league. Accruing only a further 12 from the next 11 matches was the form of a team fighting relegation. Fortunately we then won 6 in a row followed by 4 draws to see us over the line. Meanwhile Burnley lost only one more game out of their last 25 after Boro beat them in mid December. What those mid season league tables show is that keeping in touch is what is needed, not worrying too much about league positions until the last half a dozen matches remain. Aesthetically it might seem nice to see Boro top of the league at Christmas say, but in this mad mad league it’s how one finishes that will be the telling factor.

    1. Just finished an interview with Ron Bone the Academy chief scout who developed over 95 professional footballers through the Boro

      I asked him if he had photos but he did he didn’t keep any as he wasn’t a hoarder !

      Just to give you some idea how respected he was here’s what he’s just emailed me

      Sorry no photos you might get some After I received the football league award, I was asked to attend the Football Association HQ at St George’s in 2015 to be presented with an award for outstanding services to English football.

      Over 75 and only retired in August!

      He loves the Boro I’m looking forward to you all reading this one

      OFB

    2. Thanks Ken, I think it was interesting to look at those recent Championship seasons and as I mentioned in the article, I think this season looks similar to 2014/15 with no single team breaking away from the pack. I think it was quite amazing that with ten games to go only a single point separated the top five. We may get something similar this season unless someone can go on a sustained run. It may be a case of just hanging in and catching our breath for a sprint finish.

  6. Werder,

    Thanks for that, all those stats and comparisons have got me typically worried about typical Boro tonight.

    I’m with OFB tonight, Preston 0 – 0 Boro. But then you never know. Or do you? Please don’t sacrifice goal scoring potential Mr Pulis.

    A bottle of Carnet Sauvignon is chilling, the trouble is if I start a the kick-off it will all have gone by half-time.

    UTB,

    John

    2. Thanks John, maybe we could take a leaf out of government minister Rory Stewart who had to admit in an interview that he had invented a stat saying: “I’m producing a number to try to illustrate what I believe” – so let’s just say ‘90% of Boro games on Tuesday end with a convincing victory’…

  7. Thanks for our starter for ten this week Werder, or should they be our starter for twenty. I would be very happy if we do get to 40 points after 20. 89 points looks like it might be the target for automatic promotion, and it could be one of those seasons when there are half a dozen clubs or more in with a shout till near the end.
    As for tonight I’m going to stick my neck out and agree the score with Jarkko, 1-0 to Boro, against the run of play.
    COB

  8. Great read as always thanks Werder and some interesting stats.

    I expect an unchanged team tonight but with Braithwaite on the bench possibly at the expense of Wing (I hope not).

    I am hoping we can get three points tonight but fear that it will be much tougher and not as free scoring as the cup game.

    Intend watching via MFC stream so hoping for a good feed and not needing to revert to Sky!

    CoB 😎

  9. 2011-17 taught us two tough lessons – Sustaining A Promotion Campaign Over The Course Of The Season Is Tougher Than You Think, and Life In The Premier League When You’ve Been Away For Years Is Really Hard.

    I’d say we’re now better for having learned both. We’ve got a lot more money and experience in the bank anyway. Never a bad thing. Randolph, Friend, Clayton, Howson, Besic and of course Downing all have significant game time in the PL under their belts.

  10. Another great write-up Werder, although I have one very small issue. Where were all the normal “laugh out loud lines”?
    No matter great writing.

    Just hoping for a decent entertaining game and a result for Boro. Got my subscription for Boro TV, however I guess it will be a one camera game. I have SKY but no red button, so hoping all is well.

    2. Thanks Pedro, though it may be that some posters will be glad of something more serious to read from time to time – though this week it’s been driven by a lack of time to spend weaving a many stranded creative piece together as they take twice as long to write than an article based on a main thrust.

  11. Bit of a shock line-up tonight with Tav out and Wing in but Gestede also in and Saville too – No Besic, Howson or Downing either!

    Randolph, Fry, Batth, Ayala, Flint, Friend, Clayton, Saville, Wing, Hugill, Gestede

  12. Interesting team selection.

    No Howson, Besic Downing or Tavernier.

    Replaced by Ayala, Saville, Wing and Gestede.

    Didn’t see that coming and hope it works!

  17. So no live stream from MFC on the laptop just the background noise of he crowd and a red screen with the MFC crest – they really are completely useless it’s nearly December and they still haven’t sorted out the basic product – what a waste of money!

    1. Sorry Werder but I have had laptop on since 7-15 and had picture without interruption. You are not missing much and we are lucky not to be 1-0 down

      Midfield being overrun. Gestede not involved but just been substituted and Tavernier on.

      1. Finally got it working by clicking on ‘listen live’ which then said ‘Allow Adobe Flash Plugin’ and clicking yes – it then came up with ‘no live audio available’ – so I then clicked again on ‘watch live’ and the pictures suddenly appeared instead of the MFC red screen. So pretty weird system they’ve set up there. Lost the first 30 minutes to find that out!

        Incidentally, I’d tried to get the stream to work in several browsers but with the same result so not sure if it was a browser specific issue.

  22. Just as Boro were looking comfortable Preston score.
    Slow start giving Preston the initiative. Almost attack v defence.
    They look a better team than Brentford with more accurate passing.
    With Gestede playing down the middle seemed to be wasting Hugill playing on the left. Gestede not missed since going off injured – in fact more attacking play.

    Didn’t realise Saville was playing until he took a corner after 25 minutes.
    The usual tireless display from Clayton .

    At this rate I’d take the draw but always hope for better
    Philip

  23. Poor stream to start for the first 15 minutes then failed altogether. Had to reboot and now OK. Pity the Boro were just as bad.

    What a complete change of team personnel and system…..do they actually know each other? Wing was the best defender in the first 20 minutes or so as we chased shadows. Then to finally complete a woeful first half,a sloppy goal, with nobody just like saturday closing Browne down with a free shot.

    Boro all over the place. can they play as poor, but not much choice left on the bench to change things. Mr Pulis has this one ALL wrong.

  24. Good to hear you are up and running Werder which is more than can be said of the Boro.

    Sounds as if your issues re MFC are more local to you rather than central as I am not having any issues getting the streams to load straightaway.

    At present I can only see this finishing one way and I will be interested to hear TP’s explanation for so many changes which have clearly not worked so far. I am not convinced by squad rotation/games management and believe you keep playing your best side until you are forced into a change. It is not only a personnel change but also a system change. To much change all at the same time usual ends in tears in my experience.

    CoB 45 mins to prove me wrong!

  25. Until Gestede went off it was like an attack v defence training session. Hopeful punts upfield only and ball very quickly given back to Preston. Notable how we got up the pitch when Tavernier came on and we got about 5 corners in 5 minutes.

  26. Well, that was fairly poor.

    The line up reminded me of NFL, Attack on the pitch and defensive on the sidelines, the difference is you cannot swop play by play!

    Let us see how the second half pans out.

    1-1 Tav.

  28. I’ve had a perfect stream on my laptop from the website though Chrome. No commentary but I can pick up the Audio Live on tablet but it’s about two minutes behind the stream. Bizarre.

    Strange first half and Boro looked much better toward the end and then just conceded a strange goal. Anyway level now but all three subs used already. Hope nothing else goes wrong.

    UTB

      1. It would be nice to know when they start to broadcast on Riverside Live. There could be some info on the site.

        Again had some problems to log in. Or rather I was logged in but it kept saying that you must have a subscription to see the match. Then suddenly it started the stream about when the players entered the pitch just before the kick-off. No problems since the match started.

        I missed the equaliser as I was in the kitchen. And there was no replays as it was not a home match. But that was my mistake.

        Well deserved point. Let’s beat Villa on Saturday. Up the Boro!

  30. I hope Pulis gives Hugill and Tavernier a bollockimg for diving and getting yellow cards which might become important when suspensions kick in.

    Decent point at the end of the day,

  31. Well from the hour I saw it was a pretty poor quality match with very little poise or passing accuracy on display from both sides. Perhaps the only bit of quality from Boro was Tav’s goal and another move that didn’t quite have an end product.

    It was a strange team selection from the off and hard to wonder why given we’ve just had a two-week international break with no midweek fixture next week.

    Well before the game started I thought any point from this game would be a good point so will settle for that with Norwich also being held – though Leeds won to go second after playing in their lucky Boro third change strip…

  32. Werder

    The 20 minutes you missed saw us being given the run around, just be happy you missed it.

    We had the get out of gaol card – Gestede was injured. Poor in general.

  33. I watched the match on the red button and in my opinion, PNE found attacking down their left flank against Wing and Fry their best option and had great success. TP said after the game that Wing was not well and feeling dizzy that’s why he was took off.

    IMHO that was a good away point and we move on, I think TP rested Besic, Downing and Howson for Saturday game against Villa as the games pile up, whether people agree or not, sometimes the manager has to make a decision, that’s what he is paid for and he stands or falls by those type of decisions.

    It is no good looking at other teams results or the table at this time of year, before tonight’s matches I would have bet on Leeds winning easily and Norwich winning comfortably at Hull, as it turned out Leeds were let off by a missed penalty in the dying minutes and Norwich could only get a nil nil at Hull.

    It’s a long grind, let’s see who is still about come April.

    Come on BORO.

    1. ExMil
      I agree. We should utilise the squad with so many fixtures coming along by resting players who had done a lot of travelling with their International teams, especially with a tricky match against Villa on Saturday. However the formation looked all wrong which TP admitted afterwards.

  34. Well a few people may have been rubbing their eyes when they read the teamsheet before kick-off and some may also have thought Tony Pulis should have gone to Specsavers if he thought he could see three points with his selection. Nevertheless the manager made a point and Boro returned home with their unbeaten run extended to seven games.

    Was it a perfect vision of how to take Boro out of sight from the chasing pack? Here’s Redcar Red’s take on the game with his match report…

    https://diasboro.club/2018/11/28/preston-1-1-boro/

  35. Great report RR you have nailed it and called it as I saw it.

    As Exmil has said, time to move on.

    We will get well and truly turned over if we play in a similar fashion on Saturday!

  36. Jarkko

    Re your post at 6.00am and the screen showing “you need a subscription to watch” you need to cancel this by clicking on the X which I think is in the top right hand corner of the box with that message. This then gives you access to the video player.

    I logged on at 7-15 yesterday evening without a problem and could immediately see both teams out on the pitch warming up.

    For home matches using the Riverside Live stream then the programme starts 15 mins before kick off with pre match commentary and interviews with Gordon and Bernie.

    If you log in say twenty minutes before the game you should see the Riverside Live banner and aerial shots of the Riverside which then disappears when the pre match programme starts. Hope this is of help.

    1. I’m not sure why but I’ve had the same problem as Jarkko and I don’t get anything but the red screen until usually a minute before kick-off. I also got that message after logging in saying that you have to be a subscriber to see the match.

      Incidentally, as I mentioned yesterday that I needed to first click on ‘listen live’ then allow Adobe Flash Plugin before then clicking on ‘watch live’ to see any pictures. When during the game the feed froze, I had to press refresh but clicking on ‘watch live’ didn’t work again – but first pressing on ‘listen live’ and then ‘watch live’ did give me the video stream – though no message about Adobe Flash this time.

      I don’t know if it’s a browser specific issue or even a Windows 10 issue – possibly even cookie-related. It may also be related to what data is sent and received to MFC. I did email MFC with the problem but only got an automatic response with ‘Your email has been forwarded to the appropriate department or person and will be responded to within 7 working days’. Perhaps there is a more appropriate email address for live-stream issues?

      1. Werder, I have Windows 10 and use Google Crome. I have not tetsed with MS Explorer but these two are the only browsers I am allowed to use. But the problems are exacly like mine. You get nervous when the kick off nears.

        Other than that, the stream was excellent without a single problem during the two halves and the break in between.

        Up the Boro!

        1. I’m normally using either Opera (Diasboro stuff) or Firefox (general browsing) as they have a good adblock plugin – though I also have Chrome and Edge installed as I sometimes need to be signed in to multiple e-mail accounts and test websites I may be working on in the main browsers.

          I’ve never had problems with any iFollow streams, self-managed club streams or ‘unofficial’ streams from various sources. This problem is just specific to the MFC stream. It may be that they still have non-critical general underlying issues with handling and verify log-in procedures but not sure why some people have them and others not.

          —————————————–

          BTW It’s not obvious sometimes where to find info on the MFC site and couldn’t find it quickly yesterday – I’ve since discovered how…

          MENU BAR (News – Matches – Tickets – Teams – Menu)

          > Click MATCHES and choose LIVE MATCHDAY AUDIO AND VIDEO

          – On this page you will see a heading ‘Experience The Game‘

          – Below that is a line that initially looks not to be the link you’re looking for…

          “Having difficulty purchasing a subscription? Click here to view our help page”

          – Since I didn’t have a problem with purchasing a subscription I ignored the link yesterday but this is the link to a general page on live streaming.

          > Click on ‘Click here to view our help page‘

          – This takes you to a page entitled ‘Live Audio and Streaming‘

          – It has six rectangular panels that link to help pages…

          > Streaming FAQs
          > Live Audio and Video Streaming Information
          > Prices for Audio and Video Streaming
          > Streaming Via The MFC App
          > Upcoming Live Streaming Fixtures
          > Live Streaming Supported Browsers

          Although I’ve not found anything there that describes the problem we’ve had. At least I’ve now found an email address in the FAQs of where to contact specifically on streaming issues: middlesbroughtvsupport@streamamg.com

  37. RR,

    A report of the usual high standard, impressive stuff, as was Werder’s headline article. Why does Mr Pulis come up with these strange selections? Very frustrating to be seemingly being tactical about Saturday and rendering the team disjointed and ineffective on the Tuesday night before. No wonder it’s so painful being a Boro supporter. As you say ‘if it aint broke’. Sorry for Gestede but what does he bring apart from being a catalyst for tactical chaos?

    A good point, so smile everyone!

    UTB,

    John

  38. Thanks for that report RR. Pretty much what I witnessed on the red button.
    So, it won’t be the ideal 40 points after 20 games after Saturday than. Let’s hope last night has got something out of the system and we will make it 38 from 20.

    I thought it a shame that Tavernier went down near the end to win his booking. It looked like there was more danger for Preston if he had stayed on his feet and tried to get the ball across to his left. I hope the resultant ticking off that he deserves is not used as an excuse to drop him.

    I’m sorry at a human level for Gestede, but I do hope he has played his last game for us. Also hope Wing is over his health problem in time to make at least the bench on Saturday.

  39. Great report RR which filled in the gaps when I had early streaming problems.

    As others have said why change a winning team,, not to that extent. No Besic and Downing even on the bench. As for resting players it certainly does not appear to effect Clayton.
    The midfield was generally poor overall, and will put that down to TP and his selection. As RR said Saville looks no more than a squad players and at 7mil we have our eyes taken out.

    In the end a point away is always good. However with the league being so tight a win on Saturday is paramount.

  41. 1-0 down at half time and looking third best at times, the ball boys were better at ball control and passing than we were. So credit due for getting a point out of the game and fair play to Preston, they were far better than I expected.

    The selection baffled me to ay the least. Downing and Besic had great games!

    It could be one of the few points Preston drop at home for the rest of the season, if we win at home to Villa it would cap a decent November.

    That is a big ‘IF’.

  42. Re-visiting Simon’s point yesterday afternoon about 2011-17 teaching us two tough lessons – sustaining a promotion campaign over the course of a Season being tougher than you think, and that life in the Premier League when you have been away for years being really hard are both very true.

    Having a squad capable of sustaining that promotion campaign is important but of paramount importance regardless of whichever division you are in is in adding to the squad. Any players brought in should intrinsically be better than what you already have. There is absolutely no point bringing in bench warmers or squad bloaters, more so if you are spending ridiculous sums of money on them. Bringing in a Gaston made sense at the time despite the baggage. He was the missing piece and added something that we didn’t have, unfortunately he also added some things we wish that he hadn’t possessed but it made short term sense. When his mind was focussed he was a game changer and could create something from nothing.

    The McNair’s, Saville’s and Fletcher’s don’t make sense nor did the Barragan’s, Traore’s and Gestede’s at that Premiership point in time. We are at present routinely spending tens of millions on players who don’t always make the bench let alone start. Huge outlays yet no discernible improvement whatsoever in the side but someone somewhere within the club thinks that this is a sustainable model which will bring success to MFC. The logic behind it beggars belief and with another window approaching the fear is we sell another Bamford type player who could make a difference in a game and retain mediocrity (and believe me in the case of a few that gives mediocrity a bad name). Even worse is that we sign more mediocrity, squad bloaters who add zero value.

    Last night we could have conceded another two goals had it not been for Wing. Had it not been for Tavernier we would definitely have lost instead of gaining a point. That both of those players were only included of late and suspiciously more because of “Fan power” rather than good management doesn’t bode well. Maybe there is something in it that when you are too close to something you can’t see the wood for the Trees and a blinkered mentality develops. Those two players have affected more games positively than negatively and have definitely resulted in us gaining crucial Championship points and (a Cup run). That we recruited other players ahead of them at huge cost, (in fact by Championship standards massive cost) highlights just how dysfunctional and unfit for purpose our recruitment actually is.

    January beckons and there is little sign that the club has learnt from the great Jocktification. I’m just glad that its Steve Gibson’s money being relieved up a tree and not mine but I’d be happier still to see a player or players arrive that will be an immediate upgrade on what is already in-situ.

    1. RR,

      You have very eloquently beaten me to it. Unearthing rough diamonds is a good strategy but you have to be prepared to play them and let them learn. We bring youngsters on and don’t use the majority, or so it seems to the man on the ‘T’ bus on his way home.

      The two players we all know about have won us games and saved Boro a point, in those early draws what could they have (possibly) achieved?

      It’s all a puzzling conundrum, particularly with the costs involved. How many players do we ‘need’ in the window? perhaps none?

      UTB,

      John

      1. We need cover for left-back or wing-back as McQueen was injured.

        And now as Tav and Wingy are there, we need a possibly only a right winger, me thinks. Adoma on loan? Just kidding, me.

        Up the Boro!

      2. I think we need to move a few players out in the Window but unfortunately I think we are well and truly stuck with them. I would rather we brought in one influential player than a few splinter gatherers. If Mr. Pulis is not going to put them straight into the side then we may as well use what we have got. The danger is we might get players who TP does put into the side who we then regret ever seeing them in a Boro shirt.

  43. Another high standard pre amble Werder and yet another very good match report from RR. You both keep reaching the high standards you set from the off. Appreciated.

    Watched on the MFC stream with the delayed Tees commentary and had no problems until about 15 minutes to go when it dropped out for a couple of minutes.

    For the first 25 we were getting the run around with no one apart from Wing covering themselves with glory. The 3 centre halfs looked like they’d never seen each other before and as much as I think Fry is a star in the making I don’t think he’s suited to the wing back role. Full back yes, centre half most definitely but not a wing back.

    What on earth are the club thinking if they’re going to pay £7 million for Saville? It absolutely beggars belief. Admittedly he’s not had a huge amount of game time but he contributes very little from what I’ve seen. And that includes his goal against Bolton. As for Gestede, I hope he recovers from his injury and it has no lasting effects but hopefully he won’t feature for the Boro again. A move to resurrect his flagging career would be best for both parties imo.

    Having 2 target men on the pitch at the same time with virtually no one to provide the crosses was just bizarre and I’m afraid the fault there lies squarely on the shoulders of TP. Too many changes for me after a fairly comfortable win at Brentford. The two enforced substitutions were unfortunate but in Gestedes case it was a blessing in disguise. If Wing went off with what Tees thought might be delayed concussion he may be out for a couple of weeks.

    Preston knocked it around nicely but had little cutting edge as their possession % to attempts showed in the first half but it was Typical Boro to concede just before half time after we’d dragged ourselves back into the game. Mainly due to Tavernier, Wing, Fry and a change of formation.

    Tavs goal was a beauty but unfortunately we couldn’t build on it but after such a poor start a point against one of the in form teams in the championship was a good point. With the win at Brentford 4 points in back to back away games is a decent return as far as I’m concerned.

    With regards to the theatrics from Tavernier and Hugill, I really hope Pulis tears them a new one. I can put up with poor performances (just about) but blatant cheating and diving I can’t. I realise everyone does it to some extent but I’d rather Boro/TP come out and put a marker down saying it’s not acceptable.

    Villa game is as important as every other one but it’s just seems a little bit more so after a good points return from the last 2 games.

  46. There are more problems than we suspect with our manager’s selections.
    Let’s look at the logic of his team at kick off.
    A great defence, solid, very good in the air, powerful, used to success, coming from a good win after a fortnight’s rest, the chance of a second away win in four days.
    The midfield, settling into some kind of routine, becoming accustomed to success on a regular basis ( not that routine in league football)
    The strikers, really cheering up the supporters, who after getting at the manager( and how) for a long time, finally forced him to introduce Tavernier and Wing, plus Hugill.
    So tell me, how could our manager be oblivious to the fact that this match was the important match in the three which we were going to contest this week, not Saturday, the chance of six points from two away matches was the big prize which every supporter longed for, to act as the rocket to lift us to the top of this league.
    He blew it, big time.
    We are forced to the conclusion that he still thinks Gestede is a striker, he is not, (at least not in this world)
    We are to conclude that he fancies loaning out Tav and Wing in Jan.
    We are now expecting the golden statue to make an apearance on Saturday, hhhm. Look forward to that .
    I forgot to mention the omission of Tav. Young player plays blinder in great result after two weeks rest, is dropped for match four days later, yee’ss, the logic escapes me but perhaps it’s because I is stupid?

  47. Plato

    We are not to conclude that TP is going to loan out Wing and Tav in January.

    If they both keep contributing and getting game time then it would be pointless sending them out on loan. If they tail off in performances and are out of the matchday picture then going out on loan to get some matches under their belts makes sense.

    As it is they are in the match day squads and playing plus Tav is scoring goals.

    Lets wait and see.

    On another note I watch the Tavernier ‘dive’ on highlights a few times. If it was a dive it looked a very poor effort indeed, Nothing that Tom Daley would attempt, just fell on to his knees, no writhing around or appeals.

    Two thoughts. He stumbled or, he thought he was going to get caught but thought better of actually diving.

    1. Ian

      If he did stumble the stream I was watching on my phone wasn’t clear, if he thought he was going to get “caught” why not stay on his feet and take the foul?

    2. Ian
      We thought that the supporters had killed off the idea that Gestede and Assombalonga would or could be our strikers. After being brought back at the height of a good run, and a critical point, I.e. A second away win in 4 days, we now know different. There is a special prize for anyone who can give a coherent reason for such a wild upheaval of a team that looked as if it was at last going to break out of it’s annoying rut and fly.
      It is astounding that Tav and Wing are in the team because of a campaign by supporters.
      To a certain extent the same could be said about Fry ( not a full back, by the way)
      TP is on record about sending people out on loan,( still talking as we speak)
      Contrast his statements about Tav and Wing two weeks ago, following wings worldie for the winner in the last home match, he kindly trashed him in public and at length. If you doubt that watch it again.
      The jury is still out on him, he trashed the team after we hit the top, and has not apologised to the fans for his blunder, and did it again on Tuesday.
      He has not started any league match with Wing Tav and Hugill. Which most fans would have done.

  48. Did we ever find out if Saville was a Pulis signing or was we brought in by the recruitment department?

    You would think if he was a Pulis signing he would have featured more as a starter.

    1. I seem to recall that Pulis said in the summer that none of the later signings were his first choices – though I think that probably didn’t include Besic after a loan deal revived the transfer that had initially fallen through on personal terms.

  49. I was as surprised as everyone else when I saw last nights team sheet but with 3 matches in 7 days (deliberately not saying a week) I can understand TP’s thinking and why he took the opportunity to rest some players, especially if you compare the team that played at Deepdale in the cup.

    That night there was no Downing, Besic, Braithwaite,Clayton, Hugill, Flint, Ayala, Howson and Randolph so playing at Deepdale again but including 7 of the missing 9 “first squad players” (some on the bench) he could have reasonably expected to win the game or at least get a comfortable draw, while still resting a couple of players.

    With regards to the Wing “injury” what I have read is that he was feeling a bit unwell at halftime and tried to carry on but then started feeling dizzy so had to come off, it sounds to me more likely he picked up a virus (hopefully 24 hr one) and maybe, just maybe that others may have had the same problem.

    Today TP has took responsibility for the tactical mistake he made last night but when I saw the line up I thought it was an attacking side especially with wingbacks and two strikers. I, like most people, do not think Saville is worth £7m and wonder if there is any scope of pulling out of a permanent deal, even if we have to pay a “loan” fee, looking at how Millwall are struggling this season, maybe they would like him back !

    Come on BORO.

    1. I recall someone in here volunteering to drive Traore to whoever would have him…. I wonder if the same arrangement might be organised for Saville?

  50. Just got round to reading Redcar Red’s excellent report as I was in a rush for a routine hospital appointment. Don’t know why l bothered to rush as appointments were running 2 hours late when I got there. Fortunately I’m an old hand at delayed hospital appointments so had taken my Nationwide Football Annual, a pocket size book which in its various guises I’ve bought each season since 1956. No wonder I’m a football statistics geek! I then decided to have a meal out then do the shopping as the car goes in for its MoT and service over the weekend. Just glad to be back home and catch up with the views of the ‘band of brothers’ on this forum with a small brandy.

  51. Thanks for an excellent report, RR. It accurately reflected the game. As you said, Boro were shambolic at times. PNE absolutely murdered us for 20+ minutes and we just couldn’t cope with their movement and pace.

    Talk near me was generally that Gestede offers very little. Some felt he wasn’t even putting in a shift defending from the front even when we were under severe pressure. Some, including myself, were glad he went off. I said I wouldn’t be sorry if he never plays for us again. Rob Nicholls, who was just in front of me, disagreed, which is his privilege absolutely. He was, as you might expect, very supportive of the player, and, if I’m honest, put me and others to shame. Having read about Gestede’s misfortune today, I do feel really sorry for the guy. Nonetheless, my view is that Gestede shouldn’t really make the first team when we have Britt and Ashley Fletcher in the squad.

    2. I wonder if Aitor was able to sleep last night after a result like that. He couldn’t have dreamt about clean sheets. Absurd. And Forest were playing with ten men at Villa.

      Up the Boro!

  54. If anyone thinks TP is bowing to the fans and letting them pick his team then I fear they are mistaken.

    TP is an old school manager, the second he doesn’t control selection is when he upsticks and goes.

    1. And Pulis has the final word on any signings we make. The scouting team just monitor players all the time, go and watch them, too. But they never make the final desision. Just give a selection of players for the top management.

      Up the Boro!

    2. GHW
      I cannot believe that he would have selected either Wing or Tav. Without the sustained collective and reasoned critique by the majority on this blog.
      There is a mighty gap between, not on the bench and being lined up for a loan out, and being selected as the player and goal scorer of the round in the cup.
      He has already experienced being trashed to the national press after being elected M.O.M and scoring a worldie.
      So, we have problems, and they are not problems that can be solved by rational discussion.
      The old idea that anyone under twenty should come back in 2-3 seasons, is dead and can be seen to be dead on a weekly basis, our manager takes the view ” not while I am alive”.
      It is very dangerous for us to allow this idea to hold sway at our club, there is too much at stake.
      Wing must have his place, and not to defend. Tav. Is, quite simply playing on the same level as all the twenty year olds lighting up both the prem. And the Champ. Fry should be in his place at the centre of our defence with a powerful giant either side of him, and we should play Hugill until further notice.

      1. I would be amazed if Tony Pulis either reads the blog or would indeed base his decisions on any opinions he read from supporters. Wing and Tavernier probably got their chance when injuries and suspensions meant they ended up on the bench by default. Also Tavernier has taken his chance and scored in his last two games and Wing has made an impact with his goal against Palace. Fry has got the nod at right-back because Shotton was first injured and McNair failed to impress – since then Fry has looked composed and made assists and in theory it’s now his shirt to be competed for.

      2. If you think TP reads this blog let alone takes any pointers from it, then I would suggest you may be a little misguided.

        In fact I would go so far as to say any manager influenced by opinions on social media when it comes to tactics and team selection shouldn’t be in the job in the first place.

        Admittedly fan pressure can result in a manager parting company from a club, but allowing fans to pick his team for him……no I very much doubt that.

  55. I would agree with you there GHW. I do not for one minute think the Mr Pulis would bow to fan pressure.
    I just hope however he is seeing the value of Wing and Tav in the 18 squad and getting game time.

    Wing was Boro’s best defender in those first unhappy minutes. Tav took his goal very well. But I also saw mistakes from them both. But then there were plenty of other mistakes by the older more experienced players, George making a habit of them.

    Onto Saturday and against Villa’s pace and Grealish passing, we need a plan and front foot approach from the off. And no dodgy team selections from TP.

    1. There were mistakes all over on Tuesday night, both on and off the pitch. Wing saved our blushes on two occasions but our right flank did look susceptible early on but that said the entire team collectively and individually looked out of sorts. Wing got clattered in the first half and I think him eventually going off may have been connected.

      George dropped a few clangers as did Howson when he came on and there were a few “careless” incidents from others. I don’t think Wing or Tav were any better or worse than the others in making errors. Tav must be our third highest scorer over the season plus Wing is right up there in the top three or four with assists for the season. Considering how many minutes game time the pair of them have had it is a pretty damning indictment on many others. How many crosses did Tavernier get his head on the end of compared to others who were actually bought for their supposed prowess in the air.

      The pressure mounted on TP when we went through a sticky patch drawing with Swansea, Rotherham and Derby whilst losing to Forest at home. It may all be coincidental but the reintroduction of the pair coincided with an improvement in fortune. TP may or may not have been formally told but opinion was certainly heavily weighted in questioning their absence. Its easy for a Manager to shrug off those things if the results are favourable but the weaknesses at that point were glaring and their subsequent reintroduction hasn’t exactly been disastrous especially in the case of Tav. I do however think that TP does take criticism and reflects on it unlike most of his contemporaries. His admission of screwing tactics up on Tuesday is indicative of him being grounded and not under any illusions.

      That said it doesn’t or rather hasn’t worked on the subject of Gestede. Perhaps TP’s hope was to give him a few games and put him in the shop window. Anything other than that is very questionable on his part given the players track record since arriving at the club. Its all very well being supportive of a player as Clive describes above but players get extremely well paid for their efforts and if those efforts fall well below expectations then stick comes with the territory. Persistent underwhelming performances for nearly two years now are not going to be looked upon enthusiastically. Add in the back drop of previous history with the club whilst a Blackburn player questions the morality of why he would even want to come here in the first instance and why empathy is in short supply from some. Gestede isn’t the first non scoring striker in Boro’s history, Killen, Rhodes and Boyd

      On to Saturday and Villa are certainly looking susceptible at the back. If TP sticks to a back four with Clayts in front hopefully we can keep a clean sheet. That means we need ammunition at the sharp end to exploit their gaps and create chances, I suspect he will start with Braithwaite with Tav breathing down his neck on the bench. It wouldn’t be my preferred option but I suspect the “men” will get the nod over the boys in the hope that the boys won’t have to rescue us yet again.

      2. It’s interesting to wonder what the influence is on TP. I don’t for one second think he reads this or any other fans forum. So, while we may be aware of people clamouring to include so and so and to drop the dead donkey (to coin a very recent inference from Werder) and so on, how is TP aware? The terraces (well the seats then) are not chanting for Wing and Taverner everything they are absent… So I’m not sure I buy into TP yielding to pressure from the fans. Like GHW, I believe TP is his own man.

      3. Powmill

        We do know that some within the club do read this and I’m sure other blogs. Whether TP personally has the time to sit, read and digest every Boro blog is doubtful but the rumour mill does percolate to far reaching places. In this day and age of tablets and smart phones, wall to wall Facebook and Instagrams, living in splendid isolation is almost impossible especially when the club itself indulges in such media platforms. The Gazette also had general articles referencing Tav and Wing and fans being less than supportive about other bench warmers over the two of them in the comments section on those pages.

        I would be amazed if any Manager didn’t know what was currently flavour of the month within the local fan base. The only possible exception to that would be one or two extremely arrogant ones that we can all guess. TP has been very good throughout his career at using the media to up play or downplay things when it suits him, he can’t do that unless he knows what is going on outside of whichever Club he has been at, this is the same bloke who stands up at his press conferences remember.

  56. MFC aka
    Middlesbrough’s foundation charity
    What with giving some Spanish club an extra £1m for a player we didn’t use for six month.
    We now donate something over £40m to clubs in the football league ,for players who are not good enough to play for our first team.
    Our backroom staff including the glorious recruitment committee, should receive some kind of award ,from the World body that nominates such worthy projects.
    What is annoying , we could have just given Hartlepool and Darlington, £10m each and at least kept it on Teesside.

    1. No we didn’t give up too early with Karanka!

      He lost the players the fans the management and I for one would never have him back

      He was arrogant and aloof to all the Boro staff he only accepted doing things his way and wasn’t well liked

      I have spoken to a lot of people behind the scenes including Craig Hignett and Steve Agnew and they don’t wish to put on record their time spent with Karanka other than to say it wasn’t a happy experience

      There’s no need for a debate really sorry !

      I know all fans who saw how he reacted to fans shouting Attack Attat Attack will agree with me

      OFB

      1. I was one of those Attack, Attack, Attack fans! At that point I (and I’m guessing thousands of others) wanted to go down fighting rather than whimpering.

  58. OFB posted earlier that plenty of Boro players had moved on to supposedly greener pastures. Reflecting on that does anyone know what has happened to Ben Gibson? An unused sub in Division One’s worst defence. Has he been injured perhaps? Reminds me of David Wheater who joined near neighbours Bolton in an “upwardly mobile” move but has spent the majority of his career since plying his trade at a lower level than Boro. Adama seems to have disappeared into bench territory as well. Might have seemed a good idea to the lads at the time.

    2. I just caught a bit of commentary, I believe he is injured. Just checked on internet and it says lacking match fitness and being assessed. I think he has been out since September.

      It is a shame that Ben and Paddy have suffered injuries after leaving Boro. In Paddy’s case. if the injury had happened at Boro some fans would be asking why Pulis wasn’t playing him even when he was under the surgeons knife!!

      1. Ian

        On the quest football league show at the weekend there was a clip of Paddy in training who was playing on the left wing and scored an absolute cracker from about 15 yards

        His manager was so impressed he ran from the half way line to go and hug Paddy!

        I think he’ll be back in the Leeds squad soon and be appreciated

        OFB

    3. Gibson has had a serious knee injury requiring surgery and is slowly playing back to fitness

      David Wheater has made a good living out of the game he sold his house in Nunthorpe to Mogga for over a million £. Not bad for someone who we think has had a lesser career!

      Traore is set up financially for life so we shouldn’t feel sorry for him!

      OFB

  60. Congratulations to 17year old Dom Leach, a Middlesbrough lad, who has been chosen to attend a Young Lions 20 day cricket programme in Bangalore. Dom is part of the Yorkshire Academy and plays his cricket at Normanby Hall. He is a fast bowler with genuine pace hoping to eventually be picked for Yorkshire CCC and earn a full England Lions cap. It’s good to see that Yorkshire and England still regard Teesside as a part of a region that can produce young cricketers with potential. Maybe he’ll follow in the footsteps of Paul Jarvis from Marske, Ben Coad or even become the next Freddie Trueman, who knows!

  61. So Matthew Bates has been sacked as the Hartlepool manager. He was the sixth manager in the past three years. And now after six defeats in a row.

    He was a talented player – pity for all the injuries he had at the Boro. He is just 32 year old now. So much younger than Stewie Downing, for example. Batty did an excellent job last Spring in keeping the Pools in the division where they are now. But the six defeats were too much for the current owner.

    I hope all the best for Batty in the future. Up the Boro!

  62. Cheers, I’m not in the Michael Portillo class carrying his Bradshaw’s Railway Guide all around the World with his entourage and different coloured jackets (sadly my days of foreign travel are now over with so many hospital appointments to endure), but my pocket Nationwide Football Annual always followed me around as something to browse over in moments of boredom at hospitals and airport lounges. What’s more I was always quite distinguishable to restauranters in my red jacket in the Algarve where they always knew I finished my meal with a cafe duplo but not a brandy if I was driving. Oh, such happy days and fond memories!

  66. I see Alan Hutton picked up his fifth yellow of the season against Forest last night in their 5-5 draw. This means that he misses the game against us on Saturday evening which has thoughtfully been considerately rescheduled by Sky ensuring that any visiting fans can’t make the last train back to Birmingham.

    I have only ever rated Hutton as distinctly average but he was the only defender that had Traore in his back pocket last season. For me that underlined the frustration with Adama that despite his lightening pace, athletic agility, undoubted ball control and ability he didn’t have a footballing brain hence the ageing and creaking Scot had him wrapped up and rendered totally ineffective.

    Who replaces Hutton will be interesting as is their seemingly porous defence making me wonder will we try and exploit that or go ultra cautious? Whatever TP decides to do I hope he doesn’t overthink things to the degree he did at Preston. Four at the back please (Ayala on the bench) with Clayts enforcing in front of them. After that I’m imagining that its Hugill up top on his own and then Downing, Besic and two others, most likely Howson and Braithwaite.

    With Gestede now out of things maybe Fletcher might get a sniff of the bench alongside Tav, Dimi, Britt, Ayala, Saville and McNair assuming Wing hasn’t recovered from his knock. Nyland in the Villa goal looks like a liability waiting to happen if he is pressurised with a few shots. He has conceded seven goals in their last two games. My worry is who among the Boro lot will try their luck as most of ours outside of Wing and Tav look as though they will want to pass it in. Conversely Villa have also scored twelve in their last three games (we have only scored 22 all season) so we will need to cut out any supply lines in the middle of the park. Should be a close encounter!

    1. RR
      Good blog, but deeply shocked that you could leave out Tavernier.
      My opinion has moved in these last games from an emphatic good, to very good, to “a bit special” both he and Wing have not only scored goals, but goals with flair and star quality. ( we will not mention the word speed, knowing that it means nothing to our square passing brethren)
      It is a point that requires major discussion on here. Whether it makes sense to clown around resting them, benching them, and leaving them out on the grounds that they are “young”.
      In the modern game this has changed, now good young players are played, every match, followed by being selected for the national team, in this respect we are in a time warp I’m afraid.
      Just a thought, our chances of stealing the game at Preston rested on Tav, alone, and he had quite a game.

      1. Plato

        I’d play Tav in a heartbeat but I suspect that TP will go with Braithwaite having “rested” him. Hope I’m wrong and Tav does get the nod (and Wing if fit) but this is the same manager who still thinks that Gestede can score goals and its that slight eccentricity that makes me think he will stick with his older players. The exception is Fry of course unless Shotton is deemed fully fit. Personally I wouldn’t play Shotton either just yet, putting him on the bench if fit, preferring instead to feel his way back into the side in a less competitive fixture.

    2. They certainly have more pace than us RR and as I posted in Grealish a passer of the ball. We will need to be at the top of our game in midfield. No running around and backing off. Take it in turn to give Grealish a couple of early hard tackles to show we are there.

  68. Preston was my first game of the season (I live 20 minutes away) and what struck me was the negativity in the crowd. My experience has always been that the travelling Boro fans tend to be more positive than some who only watch at the Riverside bit not on this occasion.

    I thought we were going to be overrun in the first 20 mins but I’d said before the game that I’d take a point. At times PNE looked very good but we might have made them look better than they are!

    I’m still of the view that we could get promoted this year but how we’d survive in the PL is another question.

    1. I think the team selection had everyone stunned before KO and then what unfolded in the opening half hour just beggared belief. No wonder there was a subdued atmosphere!

  69. I was only joking about the Karanka thing on the back of the eye-popping 5-5 scoreline. Please don’t discuss, or if you do tell me when you’re done so I know when to come back! A more pertinent and interesting question might be whether we gave up on Gareth Southgate too early given what he’s gone on to achieve.
    I only duck in and out of this blog these days, maybe every 3-4 games, but this visit got me in reflective mood. I think I’d read Plato’s opinion that Tony Pulis was doing the club damage and it got me thinking. I think Steve McLaren was Manager when I first visited Anthony Vickers pre-cursor to this blog. If I can use the word ‘we’ to describe the general sentiment of the blog, then ‘we’ didn’t like him much. He was followed by Southgate, who we quickly also didn’t like. Boro needed someone experienced, so we thought, but when we got him (in that case Strachan) we didn’t like him either. It’s much more difficult to describe the general sentiment on here for the next manager, Tony Mowbray. I think views became much more polarised and I find it hard to recall. Anyway, he came and went. After a brief love affair we didn’t like Karanka, then we had the bald-headed bloke whose name I can never remember, he wasn’t really here long enough for a general sentiment to form, and besides which we still too busy raking over the ashes of Mr Karanka. Then we had Monk, and we didn’t like him, and now we’ve got Pulis and we don’t seem to like him much either. Not quite sure what to make of that. Have we been unlucky or shown poor judgement? Are our expectations unrealistic? No idea, but I am rather glad that I don’t work for ‘us’.

    2. Kookaburra
      You are absolutely correct in your survey of past managers ( no, I’m not going to over them )
      The very real angst about TP is pretty well self explanatory, and it starts with the fact that, unusually, we actually have several very good young players, a pleasure to watch and so on, also very effective.
      Then we get to see a very experienced manager run through all the old ideas regarding young players, not used, not on the bench, should be loaned out, their time will come in two seasons, meanwhile we stumble from top to somewhere indeterminate.
      Answers on a postcard.

      1. The only thing I can say in response to that Plato is that it is self-explanatory to you but not to me. I don’t share your angst. I’m generally pretty happy with Tony Pulis as manager, and feel we have a solid chance of promotion under him, and an opportunity to consolidate if we do go up.

  70. Kookaboro, I personally like TP and I suspect there a few others. We (Boro supporters) have been calling for an experienced manager since I came out of the Army and settled back here from Northern Ireland, which was at the beginning of the McClaren era in 2001.

    IMHO I think TP is doing a good job with the players he has got, yes he makes mistakes but so did Sir Alex Ferguson, I sometimes get the impression on here (and other sites) that people are really disappointed that we don’t win every game or if we have won, we didn’t win by enough goals !

    I too would love to see Boro win every game until I know it’s not going to happen, just as I know there will be shocking performances to come. Don’t get me wrong, after a defeat or drawing a match that I thought we would win, I am bitterly disappointed, even very angry but in the cold light of day(usually the next day) I come to realise that it is not the end of the world and there are more important things in life, besides there is always the next match/season lol.

    Going back to TP, I hope he is still the manager at the end of this season and if we have got back to the Premiership, he is certainly the man I want to steer us for the next few seasons to establish us. If we are not promoted, I would still like him to continue nd carry on building the team but if a new manager comes in, it doesn’t matter who it is people will still want him out before we have played 10 games.

    Come on BORO.

    1. I like TP, too, Exmil. I like his honesty and his down-to-earth approach, allied to his obvious regard for Teesside. I also like the fact that we are established in the top 6 and in the last 8 of the Carabao. I’d like a few more goals, and a bit more excitement, but overall I think he’s doing a really good job.

  72. Having just watched ‘Out of their skin’ on ITV4 it is hard to imagine nowadays the amount of racial abuse black footballers received even from their clubs own so called fans, but it did happen. I had never seen a black person in my youth; they were from a different continent, and my first awareness of them was when the West Indies Cricket team toured England in 1950 with such wonderful names like Everton Weekes, Clyde Walcott, Frank Worrell, Sonny Ramahdin and Alf Valentine. As a 12 year old it conjured up a distant land of palm trees and kettle drums, and an intrigue of how a team of islanders could match England. I certainly soon found out by seeing the limited newsreels as they won the test series 3-1, but I was unaware of any racial abuse against them at the time. In later years Viv Richards certainly did take a lot of racial abuse especially at Headingley.

    The first black footballer I saw was Lindy Delapenha playing for Portsmouth, and when Boro signed him all I recall was again one of intrigue. He had a tremendous shot in him, but did take some stick from the crowd notably from Astor, a Jamaican with a booming voice in the crowd, who often referred to him as ‘our kid’, but nothing racially motivated. Then things turned nasty in the late 1980’s I recall with monkey chants and some supporters bringing inflatable bananas to the ground, and I was appalled.

    The first time I had encountered apartheid was on a two night stop in Capetown in 1956 during my National Service days, when I noticed that black people had to enter the local busses at the rear to be segregated from the whites who entered from the front. Then in Singapore there was certainly an undercurrent of hatred between the Malays, Indians, Chinese and Eurasians with occasional riots in Singapore city, though some of the British troops who were there to act as peacemakers we’re certainly intolerant of anyone whose skin wasn’t white.

    I’m not a Boxing fan, but maybe Muhammad Ali formerly as Cassius Clay, although brash by nature, endeared himself to the white race in England after his fight with Henry Cooper, especially as Cooper once had him on the floor. Certainly the black English middleweight Randy Turpin had endeared himself to the nation when he beat Sugar Ray Robinson to claim the World title in the early 1950s, so what changed? Fear of too much immigration stirred up by Enoch Powell in 1968?

    Racial abuse is not tolerated by most of society today, but it’s still there stirred up by some of the uneducated brigade. Most of us never even notice the colour of one’s skin nowadays. The last time I visited Capetown in 2009 I still got the feeling that some Afrikaans would still like to see a return of some form of apartheid, but slowly racial abuse is being eradicated. I met a black car park attendant in Camps Bay who enjoyed rugby as much as football, but his real hero was Tiger Woods which did surprise me as I didn’t think the black people of South Africa would have any interest in golf. But even white Americans, a country with a lot of intolerance to black people, are glad to see Tiger back among golf’s elite.

    Sorry for rambling on, but what I’m trying to convey is that sport and football in general, has come a long way in not only tolerating black sports stars but idolising them. It never occurs to me that Ian Wright, the reporter of ‘Out of their skin’ is black, just that he’s a football summariser. The only regret I have is that ‘The Black and White Minstrel Show’ a wonderful musical show once enjoyed by many on BBC TV on Saturday evenings is today perceived as racist, when it never occurred as being that to me at the time. And many a young child’s favourite doll was a gollywog, sorry to think that such a term is offensive today.

  73. RR your match report was spot on!
    Why rest players for the Preston game???
    Are we to assume that the rested players will breeze past Villa and three points are already in the bag. For me the easiest three points were on offer at Preston and playing our strongest team we may/should have claimed all three.
    We could then have assessed the fitness of the players for the Villa game while looking down from the top of the league.
    What about the unrested players? Clayton, Friend, Flint, Hugill ect. Will they fall asleep in the second half on Saturday? They seemed to be asleep in the first half at Preston.
    Did Villa rest players? will Grealish yawn his way through the game at the Riverside? Will Abraham forget to set his alarm clock and sleep in? Will Kodjia drink black coffee before kick off?
    I hope lessons have been learnt here, and they are old lessons, play your strongest team and dont change a winning team.
    As for players going out on loan, we must keep Wing and Tav and possibly Fletcher here. McNair could do with a loan. Are we allowed to loan out a player we have on loan (saville)?

    1. A struggling, battling performance takes far more energy out of Players than a cruising 5 star victory does. I’m not saying our preferred 11 would have brushed Preston aside but I’m pretty sure that Clayton, Friend, Flint, Hugill etc.would have felt a little less cream crackered had they not been on the back foot and playing desperation football for long periods of the game.

  74. It is the moaning culture. We see the negatives in our own manager only. And don’t mention the positives in the internet.

    As Ken said above about rasism we are less polite and more agresive in general and on the internet in perticular. And the bad habits spread easily to the real world.

    We see bad things all the time. Trump has enemies everywhere, Putin also, the UK see EU as a monster, etc.

    Imigration is the same – in practice all parties in Finland except the extreme Nationalists accept that we need to have more imigrants in the near future to have our economy running as people get old and retire. And we nine parties in the parlament.

    So I think the majority is happy with Pulis. Moaning has always been part of following football. Now we just see the moaning more easily because of internet.

    Up the Boro!

      1. Exactly. I will keep that in mind 🙂

        And we need to understand what we read in internet, too. As you saw pre-Brexit. Most of the promises about saving money and better economy outside EU was totally untrue.

        So 90 % of internet info must be carefully read and checked if in doubt as most are wingers and gossip.

        Hence this forum is my number one source for Boro together with BBC Sports for results and some gossip local newspapers.

        I don’t bother to go anywhere else. Even transfer gossips are quite unreliable ion SKY and other papers.

        Up the DiasBoro!

  75. Congratulations to Dimi reaching the grand old age of 40 today. I hated being 40, it sounded much older than 39, but for some reason I didn’t mind being 50. Bryan Robson knew his playing days were over at 39 and if Dimi plays for the first team again possibly as a substitute he’ll be the first player to play for Boro in his 40s, but it’s probably easier for a goalkeeper than an outfield player to play longer. I know the game is much faster now and demands greater fitness, but the late Stanley Matthews was actually 50 when he played his last league game for Stoke City in an emergency, and considered he could have played for another couple of seasons – without a Zimmer frame I imagine!

  76. Jarkko

    The internet is a dangerous place for information, Facelessbook and Tw@tter are mediums open to abuse. Companies think they are communication (along with emails).

    You have to be careful with all of them because you cannot put the Genie back in the bottle.

    Post in haste, repent at leisure. The misinformation sticks, tweets and retweets become the accepted truth, if Stephen Fry says it then it must be true – other celebrities are available.

    I have seen numerous occasions where if someone had picked up a phone or put their head round an office door a situation would have been dealt with there and then. Instead an email goes out copied to all and sundry and the situation escalates because every Tom, Dick and Harry gets involved

  79. I realise players are seen in different lights by some posters, and criticism can be levelled at practically alll of them. However I feel some of the comments are getting a bit too personal in the case of Gestede.

    I’m sure he does his best, if and when the manager selects him. I’ve never known a player do well if he is the current club whipping boy. I personally think he is not as bad as some on here make out. Let’s be honest, service to the strikers in this squad is hardly the best in the league.

    2. Agree with GhW in there. Gestede is our player, still. I rate Hugill, Britt and Martin before him as a striker but he has my support.

      BTW. Some Bolton players will meet with chairman Ken Anderson today to talk about unpaid wages at the Championship club. I am glad that David Wheater sold his house to Mogga and has some cushion!

      But never happy when a football club has financial problems. No fan deserves that.

      Remember 1986. Up the Boro!

  80. Interesting game expected tomorrow against a team who are scoring for fun – but not conceding for fun.
    It’s one of those games which is difficult to call.
    I feel that if Villa play with the ball on the ground, move the ball quickly and use wingers then they will cause problems as George struggles against a tricky winger and Fry is not used to playing against one – I’m assuming he will play as a full back
    .
    But the real danger is Grealish who is the best player at this level who controls the game and so he must be closely marked at all times. We must not concede possession to Villa which seems to be an increasing trend in recent games.
    The word is that Adomah is unlikely to play ( good news ) and I just hope Bolasie doesn’t make us regret he didn’t come on loan.
    Clearly with Villa’s defence we must make more of an effort to take the game to them.
    Final score ? As always I’ll take a last minute disputed penalty!!
    Philip

    1. I wonder if Pulis will consider trying to man-mark Grealish out of the game – if so who should get the job? You would think Clayton but he may be required for a wider defensive-midfieler role, Besic would probably get himself booked and then be walking a tight-rope – possibly one for Howson.

  81. I had a few thoughts about the 5-5… Managers, by nature, *hate* those kind of games.

    Despite coming out on the winning side in that famous 4-3 over Toon Town in 1996, Roy Evans was not happy. He called it “kamikaze football”, adding that while it was great for the fans, nobody would win the championship by defending every week like those teams did that night.

    Kevin Keegan, on the other hand? Elated. “As long as football matches end up like this, people will come and watch and you won’t get empty seats at stadiums because it was a real classic.”

    I remember watching Bob Bradley’s Swansea beat West Ham 5-4 not long before we played the Swans, and I grinned inside, thinking, “we’ve got them”. Swansea, that is. Even though they came back from 4-2 down to win. Their ambition and spirit was fantastic in the moment, the defending abominable.

    It seems just as many think high-scoring matches are “classics” as error-ridden, farcical, basketball games. I think they’re a bit of both, and context plays its part too.

    If you’re the team that’s thrown away the lead, you certainly won’t be happy. Milan don’t think Istanbul in 2005 was a “miracle”, United’s 4-4 draw with Everton in 2012 was a needless late surrender of two points that could have won Fergie another Championship, and Big Jack went absolutely mad in the Newcastle dressing room when Toon surrendered a 4-1 half-time lead to draw 5-5 at QPR.

    It’s the old quality vs. entertainment debate. No one’s denying Liverpool 4-3 Newcastle ’96 was an utter joy to watch at the time. No one who was there, or who followed the title race as a neutral, will forget it. But it wasn’t transcendent – more a crash-bang-wallop, happenstance match that acted as a temporary high to Liverpool until they lost at struggling Coventry a few days later.

    One more Boro example? United 3, Boro 3. For half an hour we played probably the best football I’ve ever seen from any Boro side, and for the most part we didn’t need Ravanelli either. While I still marvel at our attacking play, though, Fergie (at the time) was lamenting the worst defending he’d seen in years. Once United sorted themselves out at half time the trajectory of the game was only heading in one direction.

    A Boro mystery was also raised back then – why it takes the prospect of a glamour game to eke out what’s really possible from our team. That team outplayed KeeganToon in an all-around attacking display a mere week before limply surrendering to Leicester.

  82. I’ve just been working through my Diasboro backlog and have now finally got the archive up to date with the addition of the last three months…

    https://diasboro.club/archives/september-2018/
    https://diasboro.club/archives/october-2018/
    https://diasboro.club/archives/november-2018/

    Note: In case anyone has bookmarked any pages this season, I’ve also renumbered the weekly discussion blog articles so that the international breaks are taken into account – so re-bookmark any of those pages as they will have new link references.

    btw I won’t renumber the current blog until we move to the next one to avoid any issues for those with pages open.

  83. I recently mentioned that I often carry the Nationwide Pocket-sized Football Annual around with me to relieve the boredom of waiting at Airports and indeed on flights as well as in Hospital waiting areas, so have collected a few snippets concerning Middlesbrough FC and Hartlepool United, some good and some bad, some you’re probably aware of and some you may not be, so here goes starting with GOALS:-

    Middlesbrough still hold the record for the highest number scored in the second tier of the Football League – 122 from 42 matches in the 1926/27 season. George Camsell scored 59 in 37 matches which included 9 hat tricks, still records to this day. He also scored in 12 consecutive matches which is the second highest number in the Second tier. Camsell is the 8th leading scorer of all time with 348, and with 326 the second leading scorer for one club.

    Mention is also made of big recoveries in European Football which Boro did twice in the UEFA Cup against FC Basel and Steua Bucharest in 2010.

    Middlesbrough also share the destinction of being involved in the record penalty shoot-out when losing 13-14 to Liverpool in 2014. This was equalled in 2016 when Derby beat Carlisle 14-13 on penalties after a 1-1 draw, but Boro’s match involved more goals following a 2-2 draw.

    In an FA Cup win against Goole in 1915 Jackie Carr, George Elliott and Walter Tinsley each scored hat tricks in a 9-3 win, the only occurrence of three hat tricks in an FA Cup tie.

    Brian Clough holds the record of being the leading goalscorer for three successive seasons in the Second tier with 40 in 1957/58, 42 in 1958/59 and 39 in 1959/60. He also scored all 5 goals for Football League against the Irish League in September 1959. The only other player to be leading goal scorer for three seasons in the Second tier was John Hickton, but not in consecutive seasons – 24 in1967/68, 24 in 1968/69 and 25 in 1970/71.

    Nick Barmby is one of 8 players to have scored for 6 different Premier League clubs, one more than Benito Carbone who is one of 6 players to have played for 6 different Premier League clubs (Craig Bellamy is the leader having scored for 7 different Premier League clubs).

    The most unwanted record of own- goals in a season goes to Boro’s Bobby Stuart with 5 in 1934/35.

    Possibly another unwanted record is that of Boro being only the second team failing to win a match away from home after scoring 6 goals, that being the 6-6 draw at Charlton in October 1960, and shares the distinction of it being the highest scoring draw in the Football League along with Leicester v Arsenal in April 1930. (Incidentally Charlton were involved in the most extraordinary of come backs when beating Huddersfield 7-6 in December 1957 being 1-5 down after 63 minutes and actually played with only 10 men when scoring their last 6 goals).

    OTHER NOTEWORTHY OCCURRENCES:-
    The three Carr brothers William, John and George made 24 appearances for Boro together from January 1920 to October 1923.

    Boro’s home match against Oldham was abandoned after 55 minutes with Boro leading 4-1 in April 1915 when Oldham’s defender Billy Cook was sent off but refused to leave the field. Cook was subsequently banned for 12 months, and the score confirmed as a result.

    Lee Cattermole is still the youngest player to captain a Premier League side aged 18 years, 47 days (Boro away to Fulham on 7th May 2006).

    Boro are one of only 7 teams to draw 8 consecutive league matches (1970/71). They also hold the record of being the earliest team to gain promotion to the top division (23rd March 1974).

    Amongst those occurrences we’d probably wish to forget is that of one of only 6 teams to reach the FA Cup Final and be relegated the same season (1997), not to mention one of a few clubs to suffer a points deduction.

    Also one to forget is that Boro’s Abel Xavier was the first Premier League player found to have taken a performance
    – enhancing drug. He was banned by UEFA for 18 months in November 2005 after testing positive for an anabolic steroid, subsequently reduced to 12 months in July 2006 by the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

    HARTLEPOOL UNITED don’t figure as much in the Nationwide Football Annual, but these are some of their entries:-

    They hold the record for the number of times they successfully had to apply for re-election to the Football League after finishing bottom on 14 occasions. The system was discontinued in 1987.

    They feature twice as the record aggregate score in the new existing 2nd Division – a home defeat to Plymouth 1-8 in May 1994, and an 8-1 home win against Grimsby in September 2003. They also share the highest aggregate score in the new 1st Division – a 4-6 home defeat to Wrexham in March 2005. They also share the record for the highest aggregate score in the old 4th Division – a 10-1 home win against Barrow in April 1959, and a 1-10 away defeat to Wrexham in March 1962.

    On a brighter note Hartlepool do hold the record of most goals scored in a season in the old 4th Division – 109 from 46 matches in 1959/60.

    I hope that all this data doesn’t make anyone dizzy, but that’s the norm for a statistics geek like me.

  85. I know I shouldn’t hark back, but I couldn’t help smiling at this comment in the Beeb’s live text commentary on this evening’s match beween Cardiff & Wolves in the Prem:

    “There it is again from Adama ‘almost brilliant’ Traore. He gets the ball on halfway, his first touch isnot great but with his second touch he somehow nutmegs Sol Bamba and gets away from two more defenders. He then hurdles a challenge like Kareem Hunt and spreads it out wide. Only a very well timed challenge stops the Wolves attack.”

    to which someone called Kyle responded about five minute later:

    “If Traore improves his first touch and close control he will end up being a world class player. If he doesn’t he will always be average at best. He should be a real threat on the counter attack in the second half. He must be infuriating to play with.”

    🙂 Tell us about it…. 😉

    1. And when he’s substituted with 27 minutes to go:

      “Adama Traore’s box of chocolates display is over – on comes Morgan Gibbs-White, who played my own personal pass of the season against Spurs the other week.”

      P.S. Wolves lost by 2-1…

  87. I hope Tony Pulis isn’t building Aston Villa up too much. Let’s face it, if both ourselves and Villa were in the Premier League the consensus of opinion would be that Boro would expect 4 points over the two fixtures against them, so what’s the difference just because we’re both in a lower league? Treat Villa with respect as much as we do any team in this league, but it’s just another game, isn’t it?

    1. I’ve had a long and strategic look at the proposed teams for the game and thinking laterally about the formations and tactics I’m going to go for ….

      ⚽️⚽️

      Well you didn’t think I was going to change a winning forecast did you???

      OFB

  90. Not going to be able to watch tonight, alas. A pity as I always look forward to Sky home games. Though apart from Dani’s late, late intervention vs WBA and Hat-trick Bamford not too many recent ones live long in the memory.

    I’ll take a 2-0 – goals and solid foundations that point to a better future. Better still if they’re from Hugill and Tav/Wing.

  91. Here’s one for you to get your teeth in to Ken.

    A popular quiz question is to name an England team with players who only have four letters in their surnames, I was wondering if their is a Boro equivalent.

    I can think of Pat Cuff in goal, Stuart Boam in defence and Ray Lugg up front with Mike Kear on the wing.

    Over to you……

    1. GHW

      Pat Cuff (goal 1973/78)
      Darren Wood (full back 1981/85)
      Paul Ward (full back 1982/86)
      Harry Bell (wing half 1946/55)
      Gary Gill
      Brian Laws
      Paul Ince
      Heinie Otto
      Paul Kerr
      John Wark
      Arthur Kaye (right winger 1960/65)
      George Dews (inside forward 1945/48)
      Mikell Beck
      Billy Woof (forward 1974/82)
      Paul Okon
      Stephen Bell
      Stephen Webb

      I’ll let someone else to create a team from those 17, but there are many more such as Colin Ross (only 12 appearances) all Post War players.

  93. So looks like 4-3-3 for the game against Villa with Batth retaining his place over Ayala and Tavernier starting once more instead of Braithwaite

    Randolph
    Fry – Flint – Batth – Friend
    Howson – Clayton – Besic
    Downing – Hugill – Tavernier

    As well as Ayala and Braithwaite, the bench includes presumably fit-again Wing, Saville, Assombalonga, McNair and a 40-year old Dimi.

  95. Most if not all of the other results today have not been in our favour and the pressure is on to reduce the gap on Norwich.

    The other top teams seem to be scoring with ease whilst we struggle against the likes of Preston and Rotherham.

    Given our track record I can’t see a high scoring game and hope that we can at least score to give us a win but if not secure a point.

    CoB 😎

  96. No Hutton (suspended) nor Uncle Albert (ankle injury) for the Villans.

    According to the Beeb:

    – In all competitions, Tony Pulis has collected just one win in his last seven matches against Aston Villa (D2 L4).
    – Dean Smith has never beaten Middlesbrough as a manager in four meetings in all competitions (D2 L2) – he’s faced a different manager each time (Tony Mowbray, Aitor Karanka, Garry Monk, Pulis).

    Sets it up nicely for the “typical Boro” curse! Have broken out the prayer mat…

  98. Tav and Fry in the starting line up, Wing on the bench.

    Booooooo! Pulis out, he is doing what we want him to not do so we can complain about him not doing it. Awkward sod,

    He must have been reading the blog.

    There again if it doesn’t go well we can complain he hasn’t played them earlier and needed game time.

    That is a huge relief. Phew!

  102. Lucky to be only one down, all over us in the first half of the half, came in to the game later on.

    Half time and lets see what the second half brings. Get at them early in the second half and we stand a chance but the danger is being picked off on the break. At the moment they just look to have better players than us.

  103. Boro second best all over the pitch in the first half and could easily be 2 or 3 down with George escaping a definite penalty. Villa just look half a yard quicker and comfortable on the ball and Boro short on ideas and quality – hopefully a rocket at half time will launch the players into the second half!

  105. Same tactics as against Preston. – start by giving the opponents the ball and defend, defend , defend. A bit desperate at times.
    Why start like this at HOME ??

    Then when Villa score we then start to push forward and make a game of it.
    Lucky to get away with a penalty against George.
    Their offensive players look really skilful and we can’t hold them. Clayton and co having to do a lot of running.

    Has Downing got an injury ? – not taken the corners.

    Surely in the second half Pulis has to give it a go and not play defensively and only go for it in the last few minutes.

    This game shows eg the lack of an attacking player who can beat a player to create an opening or make a forward pass for Hugill etc to run into.

    I’d be very pleased with a draw based on the first half but it has a feeling of the Notts Forest game.
    Philip

  112. Can’t argue. Far and away the best team won convincingly tonight. Onwards and upwards now. They have to put this behind them and hopefully this will be the worst reverse over the season….

    1. Yes Villa literally ran rings round us this evening, a well deserved victory for them and plenty of questions for Tony Pulis to answer with that display. Our midfield certainly looked well rested after sitting out the Preston game – some of them may indeed be given another rest in the near future I suspect. A game to forget from a Boro point of view with maybe only Hugill earning his wages today and was unlucky not to score.

      1. Interestingly Hugill had a real go at Braithwaite towards the end of the game and was pushing and showing him as Braithwaite stopped running and was leaving Hugill to chase every ball down

        As far as I’m concerned it’s wouldn’t bother me to see Braithwaite play again for the Boro

        No commitment at all

        OFB

  115. That was embarrassing.
    A team of plodders employing a hit and hope approach compared to a team with much more skill.
    More worrying will attacking players want to join in January ?
    Philip

    1. I think attacking players are not the only answer Philip, the midfield in my opinion is still well, well short of pace and real creativity. Without that we will not get to where we would really hope, if that is the top two. Possibly Mr Pulis honestly believes we are not good enough to achieve that?

      Norwich away, Derby, Notts Forrest and now Villa. Top teams in the league and more or less played off the park.

  116. I missed the match because of gout…!!! Caught by drinking too many bottles of Double Maxim in Sunderland before a show, will have to read RR match report as i could not get myself down the stairs to watch game on TV.
    Do not know if i should drink some more or pinch Mrs borobrie’s bottle of red…???

  117. Massive reality check.

    We were very, very poor but Villa were miles better then us in every respect. Some of our players were shown up for what they are and the Pulis tactics certainly didn’t help. Defending as if your lives depended on it for the first 20 minutes set the tone for the match and there was only going to be once result. We were at home for God’s sake so why surrender the initiative straight from the kick-off?

    Based on what we saw tonight Villa look a very good bet for one of the automatic promotion spots with Norwich, Forest, West Brom and Leeds fighting for the other. It would be typical is Karanka took Forest up and he might just do that. We will. be struggling to make the play-offs unless some miracle is worked in the January window, the team is changed for better players and in parallel Pulis discards his obsession with defending and the hoof and hope tactics when we are chasing the game.

    I live in hope but I’m not holding my breath……….

  118. No reason for any angst. Outplayed by superior players in a superior team. My only criticism is that they accepted their fate with a bit of a whimper.

  119. Sounds like I dodged a bullet tonight as have been out with friends from 545! Did manage a look st the final score which meant more wine, not good for the head tomorrow!

    Still in third place so not all bad is it………,,.?

  120. A horror show from us. We were miles behing Villa yesterday.

    And amasingly, we had two very good chances to score (Hugill hitting a post and was it Downing off-side when the ball hit him instead of the net). And if Randolf had been able punch the bal away for the second.

    Fine margins in a way. But Villa fully deserved the three points.

    Up the Boro!

  121. Every player had a bad day in the office yesterday. But most I am wondering about Martin Braithwaite. He is excellent for Denmark but cannot get to the team at Boro. Yesterday he was again practically useless.

    I don’t believe we wouldn’t want to try. If he wanted away, he would still need to show what a good player he is to get a transfer.

    So it is something else. But it was awfull performance from every single player in red yesterday. Up the Boro!

    1. Jarkko

      As I mentioned last night

      Braithwaite angered Hugill so much with his non performance and not even attempting to go for the ball that Hugill was shouting at him and even resorted to pushing him quite hard in the chest several times.

      Braithwaite just shrugged his shoulders!

      I don’t like criticising Boro players but if he’s not to put any effort in then I’d rather he left in January

      As for Hugill the lad is Boro born and bred and a fan and was desperately trying to get something out of the game

      OFB

  122. Well, I wish I hadn’t sneaked the phone on, I should still be in Leigh-on-sea with red eyes drinking in an empty restaurant surrounded by party debris.

    Hold on I am surrounded by debris the Boro team and tactics. Suddenly an International break seems quite attractive based on what appears to have been the Boro no-show from hell. Ah well there’s always the next game to recharge the optimism batteries for.

    0 – 0 yer havın’ a laugh

    Time for a coffee.

    UTB,

    John

  123. A poor display, but I’ve never seen the point of booing one’s own team. I can understand the disappointment, but booing never motivates a team in my opinion. Boro have now joined the likes of Leeds, Derby, Villa and West Brom who have all now lost games by three goal margins. It’s how one responds to such defeats, and on paper the next five matches are all winnable which would have Boro on the magical two points a game after 25 matches. I’m not saying that will happen, but there’s no reason why it won’t. As Philip says, yesterday was embarrassing, but might also be a wake-up call. I refrained from mentioning before the match that only Manchester United and Villa have won more games on Teesside than they have lost because what’s historical can’t really have any bearing on current results, but it was evident almost from the kick-off that Villa were more motivated than Boro and could on the day well have won by 5 or 6 goals. Villa’s 5-5 draw against Forest was a FREAK scoreline, let’s hope that Boro losing through defensive errors was also a FREAK performance. As long as Boro are within striking distance of the top two, let’s not dwell too much on league positions at this stage of the season. The final positions will be determined by which team is on form in the final 6 or 8 matches. Remember in a league so tight as this, it’s how one finishes the season, a final sprint then will count in what will be a marathon.

  126. Oh dear, coming events cast their shadow before them,(and how)
    This was a death foretold, to have a fortnight off, return to the fray and two away games, win the first, then trash the team(including the defence) struggle to get a draw(with the help of our young guns).
    then to leave out Wing, and proceed to stand about for the first half(no, I have no idea why) changes, remove Tav, do not bring on Wing. Yes, that should do the trick.
    The habit of standing about in the first half, with the opposition lined up on the half way line, should make them an open goal if we he the brains to pass the ball at speed long the ground between them into the empty half of the field, we hit it in the air, they were giants and good in the air. End of.

  127. RR

    thank you for a report which was far superior than anything we saw on the pitch yesterday

    It must be so difficult to write when the performance has been so bad

    I hope that you had a couple of glasses to help the awful memory dissipate somewhat !

    A lack of creativity as you pointed out was the key to our non event and it’s been obvious for some time that Boro are not a good team

    Besic hasn’t played well for a number of games and I’ve made my feelings known about Braithwaite

    I did think that the injury to Fry was a foul but can’t bring myself to watch any replay of such a horror show

    We have a full week on the training ground now so no excuse let’s see TP earn his money as I’m becoming rather disillusioned and no it’s not just after one game!

    OFB

    1. OFB
      You took the words right out of my mouth that it must have been difficult for Redcar Red to write such an excellent report considering on the night (and I stress on the night) we were outplayed by a superior team. Villa and Boro arguably have the strongest squads in this league, but Villa, Derby, Forest and a few others are able to attract young loan signings from the top Premier League teams, whereas Boro can’t, maybe because Pulis seems to have an aversion to playing youngsters on a regular basis. Just my thoughts.

  128. Thanks for the alternative match report RR, which unfortunately must of been difficult to construct after watching that shambles. it was bad enough having to read your report as well written as it was.

    it is now obvious and has been for some time that although we have the meanest defence we do NOT have the best defence. Randolf apart the back four are made to look better than they are, certainly against teams with width and pace that run at you. They are “good” to the detriment of what attacking flair we have by having the wide wide men defending first, that is their job and it was more than noticeable yesterday with Tav struggling at times to defend and then be expected to attack, beat a couple of the opposition players and then make a perfect cross into the box where there would be no red shirts.

    Our midfield are also not good enough to get us where we need. We have brought in Howson @ 5mil, McNair @ 5mil, Besic @ what would of been 6mil, and Saville @ 6/7mil in January. None of them score goals as they all defend first and attack second arriving too late in the box. None have any real pace or creative passing ability, possibly Besic apart.

    So how is Mr Pulis and the recruitment team going to improve the overall squad, assuming there are those players available? And are we going to off load / loan players to balance those in with those out?

    The system and tactics also play a big part in how we play. i cannot see TP changing that and perhaps the results will not change also.

  129. Thanks to RR for another well written report covering our abject failure to perform. We were well and truly outplayed by a team and manager who were far superior in every department.

    I commented post Preston that if Boro put in a similar performance against Villa then we would be well and truly turned over and unfortunately it proved to be the case.

    Some have commented that it was a bad day at the office and that we just need to move on but I do not believe that it is as simplistic as that.

    What we saw yesterday was a team who were able to expose the frailties of our personnel and system both of which have been evident for a number of seasons and apparent to many of us watching/attending matches.

    Our midfield and strike force are not fit for purpose and too often our major players fail to perform against the stronger, better organised and more talented teams.

    TP has managed to paper over some of the cracks by instilling a well organised and disciplined approach but in doing so this often employs as many as 8/9 players being employed in a defensive formation when we do not have the ball. As a consequence, the remaining players are often left isolated.

    When we do recover possession our attacking intent is far too pedestrian and so often players do not display the ability to capitalise on situations. Far too often players who have been defending and have made gut busting runs into offensive positions fail to execute through either lack of composure due to fatigue or lack of skill/quality ball from colleagues.

    Yesterday Villa knocked the ball around with composure and for the majority of the time found a colleague who brought the ball under immediate control as opposed to Boro players who all too often appeared to do the opposite. They drove forward with pace and purpose and at times appeared to have twelve men given the ease with which they controlled the game.

    We often say that over the season one team comes from nowhere whilst another will drop away. It saddens me to say that on yesterday’s performance and what has happened earlier in the year then Villa are heading for one of the automatic spots whilst we appear to be the team most likely to fall away.

    TP keeps talking about MFC know what they need and they will be working hard to achieve that during the next window, but this will be his third window and we are nowhere nearer solving our problems.

    There are often major turning points during a season and yesterday could be one of them, I just hope that it can be used as a catalyst for improvement and not one that sees us slip away from a top six slot. Next Saturday will reveal a lot about MFC players, Manager and supporters. CoB.

    1. KP
      I know it is no consolation, but the turning point came at Preston, every time we are in position to hit the top, a certain manager decides to do a bit of managing, and it is disastrous, always.
      At Preston he took an axe to the team that was getting into a rut(but a nice one)
      There has been no explanation for the complete dismantling of the defence, the return of Gestede, the leaving out of Tav. And above all, the formation standing about for the first half. Any team faced with opponents who let them form up along the half way line, is going to be very pleased, first, because they will not do much running, (very good) and further, because they will have plenty of chances to have a shot. Note, the number of goals you score is in strict relation to the number of shots, I think all their goals came as a result of raining shots on our goal, sooner or later one is going to cross the line, and so it proved.
      We have two players who have no problems with creating goals, yes it’s Wing andTav, we now have a striker who can hold the ball up, and play others in, that would be Hugill, in addition we have a centre back who is very good at playing the ball out of defence and setting up attacks, and that would be Fry, at present wasting his time playing fullback, all this is down to one man TP. Can we trust him to just play our best team in their correct positions.
      I do not want to upset you but I think that he destroyed team spirit at Preston, the players know when the moving time comes in a tight league, they are the ones who got us to that point.
      This is the second time that he has wrecked things at a critical point.
      Any chance of the Aston Villa twenty year old being rested for a month?
      or the Fulham nineteen year old, or the Manchester city kid? Thought not. Just asking.

  130. The usual thanks to both RR and Weder for their work and dedication. Given what sounded like a poor game yesterday, RRs report was over and above the call of duty!

    It really is a shame that the players and Even, dare I say it, TP, don’t appear to have the same ability!

    To compare TP to a certain Mrs May, he does appear to be trotting out the same phrases, believing that if they are Said enough times, then they must be right……., and will come true!

    Whilst in some respects, I am not unhappy to be still in third place, the last few games do not fill me with confidence. Yes, we bear Brentford although we looked vulnerable towards the end and if they had scored, it would have been, shall we say, interesting! And not in a good way either.

    Preston sounded poor as was yesterday’s performance although Villa look like a good side. Coming into the festive season, we can only hope that TP ocan pull a few crackers to avoid any pantomime performances which we have become used to over the years.

    I want to be proved wrong about TP but I am not sure that we have what it takes to get automatic promotion but I will keep on believing for the journey!!

    UTB

    1. TP wanted Bolasie and was open to Adomah who would add more pace and creativity but the contrast to that is he wanted Besic who bottled the Play Offs (and again last night) and then there is Saville and McNair not to mention why he has a preference for Gestede who doesn’t score.

  131. KP

    Yesterday was a wake up call and should be the catalyst for a turning point. It’s time for MFC to admit the disastrous recruitment, take the hit on far too many players that we all know is coming and recruit players fit for purpose and at a commercially sensible rate +10% if needs be but not 250%.

    Frustrated as I am becoming at TP’s tactical nous he can only work with the and he has been dealt although there are a few like Saville and Besic who are not good enough or consistent enough for the top end of the Championship. Forshaw is preferable to most of those who have arrived in the middle of the park and I won’t mention Bamford. As woeful and inept as our recruitment and operations people are TP has his fingerprints on the most recent deals so can’t be totally exonerated plus its he who decides on tactics.

    Gary Gill seems to have underwhelmed and underperformed for several seasons now. Neil Bausor seems to be exceptionally good at grinning at every photo opportunity but what his actual role (and the corresponding value he adds) is to me at least very unclear. We now have another “jobs for the boys” appointment in Adrian Bevington as “Head of Recruitment Operations” who I’m sure is a lovely bloke but I struggle like 40% of the current playing personnel to understand what value he adds.

    Of course we are all a bit more sore and cynical than usual after last nights embarrassment but that display illustrated everything that is weak at the club and that hasn’t and isn’t being addressed. We can’t keep changing Managers but our recruitment needs a strategy and direction and on the evidence of the first team squad that is the first area to be addressed before we move forward. The money wasted on inflated fees for middling Championship players is horrendous but more alarmingly is when the money well runs dry (approximately at the end of this season when parachute payments dry up) we will be in a precarious situation similar to that when Mogga came in.

    Gestede, Braithwaite, Saville, Assombalonga, Fletcher, McNair and Johnson were all recruited at fees many times their actual worth. Its not the players fault and its not to say that in the case of a few they are not decent footballers for a middling Championship club but when sold on they will create a huge financial black hole (probably 33% of what we paid for them) for the club. That cash relieved up a wall will mean that their replacements will like as not be bought at much lower cost and once again we could be headed for the likes of the Ledesma’s and Folans. Right now the Juke would be seen as a massive improvement over half our Strike rforce. Its not my money but at some point SG needs to think and act with his head and not his heart for the clubs sake if not his own.

  132. Where do you go from here?

    Setting up a team to play defensively with 10 players behind the ball when the opposition have the ball will guarantee not conceding a lot of goals. That is fine
    but you then need some creativity for when you have the ball in advanced positions. We don’t , apart from Tavernier and, to a lesser extent , with Wing, Downing and Besic, who holds onto the ball too long and often loses it (sometimes cos players around him don’t move into position for the ball.)

    TP must see this just as we all do.

    So what can TP do?

    Set up the team with a more attacking emphasis to the detriment of a strong defence and so accept that we will concede more goals but hopefully score more in the hope of being more successful?

    Or, continue with what has been ‘ semi successful ‘ since he came and has been his hallmark at previous Clubs?

    Unfortunately , I think he has little option to continue with the style he has adopted since coming, in the hope that , in the January window, he is able to attract the right players to make the team more attack minded.

    But if you are an ‘attacking player’ would you choose to come to a team best known for its defensive qualities ? or, one which is known to be more attacking, as judged by the number of goals scored ?

    Clearly I think the better players will chose the latter and the Club will end up gambling on lesser talented players.

    Philip

  133. Redcar Red,

    An accurate and factually correct report. So well did the report convey the shambles that were/are the Boro last night that I had to read through my fingers, behind the couch just like kids used to try and watch Dr Who, or in this case Boro Who.

    Mr Gibson must have broken out the Napoleon Brandy last night because if he looks at the financial implications of not gaining promotion he’ll be the next to be hiding behind the sofa. Other pieces of furniture and dark cupboards are available.

    I hope Mr Pulis has gone to the dog trainer to hopefully learn some new tricks and tactics.

    Lastly a question. Does the ‘Recruitment department’ help choose a manager?

    UTB,

    John

  134. Well it has taken me all day to pluck up the courage to read the blog apart from a cursory glance to see which way the current was moving.

    Having read it all now I see most of us share the same disappointment.

    Suffice to say I am sorely sickened by what I watched last night and am inconsolable at the moment.

    Never mind we probably will be in for another tense finish to the season trying to get inot the top 6, watching jealously as others smash the league.

    There is no answer, no solution only Boro – typical Boro.

    Over and out for a while.

  135. Its been discussed on here before but we are hanging in around the Play Offs because of our early season form. Our Home form in particular is nearer relegation than Play Offs let along automatic promotion.

    https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/middlesbrough/form-guide/home/six

    The two games before that sequence of six games we beat struggling Bolton on the 19th September and before that we beat WBA courtesy of a last minute hand assisted Ayala effort. Both those games were at the end of an opening four Home game winning streak from the start of the season. There has been a stark and steep decline since then along with little to no attacking intent let alone goals.

    Based on the above link it is not unreasonable to suggest that tactically at home we are not performing as a promotion contender should be. Why that is is open to opinion and it can’t all just be down to the lack of involvement of Wing and Tavernier. The total lack of any application, drive, creativity and energy is a major factor as to why our Strikers can’t score despite costing a fortune by Championship standards.

    Our midfielders are also an embarrassment of riches in terms of outlay, Downing, Howson, Besic (albeit on loan), Saville and to a much lesser extent Clayts. That neither the midfield or the striking set up is functioning adequately is bizarre after the multi millions spent. Saville comes in for a lot of criticism yet bagged goals in a much poorer side in the same league last season, Howson used to score goals before he joined us and it appears that Downing (and Clayts) couldn’t hit a Cows backside with a banjo.

    Assombalonga now looks a broken man, Braithwaite disinterested and Besic has moments of genius but for those few seconds per game he undoes it all ten fold by dithering. Is it coincidence that only Wing, Tavernier and now Hugill are playing without looking like they have the worry of the world on their shoulders?

    Just compare our squad with say Sheffield United who are one point behind us, how many five, six or nigh on ten million pound plus players do they possess? They may not be TP’s preferred squad mix but its hardly a poor hand he has been dealt and like it or not but in any walk of Management you have to work with what you have and not what you dream of.

    1. Could it be Boro lads have Boro Pride and Boro Values?

      Mercenary Players have Mercenary Pay day values and if they don’t like it just move on to another club ?

      Don’t forget Downing his socks off as well another local lad and we also lost Fry who was working hard

      Perhaps that’s it we’ll have a team solely comprised of Boro lads !

      After yesterday we could have got 11 lads out of the stands who would have played better for the badge?

      OFB

    2. Boro’s home form has been a problem all season and especially scoring goals – Wigan was the first time Boro had scored more than one at home since the 2-0 win over Bolton in early September with the only other occasion being that 3-0 over a still not out of the blocks Sheff Utd in our first Riverside outing. If you look at all the other clubs regularly knocking in three, four or five at home then scoring will ultimately be our downfall. Incidentally, I see our next opponents Blackburn just netted four yesterday – that gives me a bit of apprehension if our defence starts looking less than solid.

  136. RR
    Covered everything,and is spot on.
    If you think there is not something not right about what’s going on behind the scenes ,I’ve looked up some stats.
    We can well agree you need to score goals to win games as a rule, the top teams usually score more goals than the rest,yes a good defence is helpful,but yesterday told a tale.
    My stats are based on first team squad and regulars since 2014/15 , some obviously have played in more games than others but you will get my drift.
    Player goals scored in all competitions
    Assombolongo 20
    Ayala. 16
    Lead bitter. 20
    Downing. 9
    Brathwaite. 8
    Fletcher. 5
    Friend. 5
    Gestede. 4
    Hugill. 4
    Howson. 3
    Besic 3
    Clayton. 1
    Saville. 1
    McNair. 0
    ,………………………………….
    Bamford. 32

    The top three can’t get a game anymore, and we sold the best out of the lot, and you wonder why?

  137. Thanks Redcar Red, writing a report on that shambles takes some doing.

    I am not going to blame the team for starting slowly, the blame belongs to Villa for being so much better than ourselves.

    Their movement and passing were so much better than ours. the only thing the teams had in common was passing to white shirted players.

  138. The one good thing that came out of yesterday is that I had a really good chat with Chris Thomlinson a Teeside Olympian and former British Record breaker and holder forntue long jump who is Boro daft and has agreed to do an In2View for us. Watch this space…..

    PS is Pulis for the Long Jump?

    OFB

  139. Well I’ve had nearly 24 hours to digest what was served up yesterday and frankly I still feel as sick as a pig. I watched on Bein sports with the commentary from Tees with a 20-30 second delay.

    I haven’t even read RRs report as I don’t want to relive that shambles again so apologies for that, your efforts deserve more from me but not today. I’ll catch up with it later in the week.

    As GHW posted we were (well) beaten by a better side. That’s true but it was the manner of the defeat. Literally from the first minute we were nowhere near Villa. The gap between Hugill and the rest of the team was so big Mark Drurey said they were operating in different post codes! The distance was as bad as anything I witnessed under Karanka in the premiership. That included all home and half a dozen away games.

    Randolph made one brilliant save then had an absolute mare for 2 of the 3 goals. I suppose he’s been that good so far that his mistakes do stand out more and he’s definitely in credit when it comes to goals and points he’s saved us.

    The whole back line once again looked like a bunch of strangers who’d n very met before never mind played trained and played football together. Baath and Fry both had stinkers imo. At least Fry was playing out of his natural position so he’s got some mitigation for his performance. George lost possession in dangerous areas so often I just expected him to do it every time he had the ball. He got away with a stonewall penalty as well. The tv replay showed the refs angle and Clayton was stood right in front of him obscuring his view but the East stand linesman must’ve been looking right across the line but thankfully for whatever reason didn’t put his flag up or it would’ve been an even more embarrassing score line.

    Tavernier and Downing tried but didn’t really create much apart from the odd cross which never found a red shirt. Admittedly he only had Hugill to aim at but he never managed to get the ball anywhere near our lonely centre forward. Besic was as effective as he was in the playoffs and Clayton was chasing shadows and uncharicteristicly for him was caught on the wrong side of his man on numerous occasions. As for Howson he was anonymous for the vast majority of the game and contributed nothing. Back to his very worst I’m afraid.

    Hugill tried all night and got next to no support or decent balls to do anything with. No runners going beyond him or even anyone up alongside him.

    As for Braithwaites disgraceful display I’m with OFB. He should never put on a Boro shirt again and get rid in January. I’ve stood up for him previousley but last night was the straw that broke the camels back. Gestede might not be the best player we’ve had but at least he tries and puts the effort in something Braithwaite certainly had no intention of doing last night.

    TP will come in for criticism and to a degree rightly so but on the Tees commentary several times the pitch side reporter said Pulis was telling the team to push up the pitch but they basically ignored him. Were they scared of Villas pace and hoped they’d be able to hold them on the 18 yard line? It didn’t work whatever their reasons were.

    Villa were everything we weren’t. Quick incisive passing, movement off the ball, fast across the ground with threats coming from all over the pitch and a playmaker who at this level can dictate and run a game.

    Our last three games have been against teams who more or less did what Villa did last night and we’ve basically played the same way against all 3. Luckily for us Brentford and Preston didn’t have that final bot of consistency otherwise we wouldn’t have gotten 4 points from the last 9.

    To Pulis and the squad have a lot of work to do would be an understatement. Plenty of games this month to put things right but on the flip side a lot of games where, if we play like we have in the last week, things can go very wrong and I’m not sure I’d like to guess which way it might turn out.

    Lastly I hope Dael Fry recovers from that awful collision last night. With a bang to the head like that I don’t expect him to be featuring next Saturday with the concussion protocols that are now in place. Hope he gets back soon. Preferably at centre half.

  142. For those looking from outside, we are well placed to be in the mix for promotion but from the consensus on here we are going backwards and that highlights the wasted resources, poor recruitment and lack of enterprise.

    This reminds me of when we were in the mix under Mogga and were one point from top on new years day and Woody commenting that he didnt understand the concerns of fans who were voicing their concerns about familiar failings but we then dropped like a stone. Fact is we fans arent daft and we can see that we have yet again become an attacking free zone, the promises of pace and flair long gone and that teams are on the up and getting the most out of their new recruits whilst we see that our one dimensional approach is being sussed out and we have millions of pounds wrapped up in players on the bench.

    I was impressed with TP at the beginning of the season in using what he had in a system that worked and that gave chances to those on the fringes but the panic buys that then took place have muddled things and put blocks on Wing and Tavernier developing and getting embedded in the team. We are 12 million poorer for Saville and McNair and for what? One goal between them. Who were they supposed to be an upgrade on? Now thats not to say they wont become assets at some point but we need product now in this crucial season before parachute payments end and the belt tightening begins and all i see is we have saddled ourselves with big contracts that no other right minded champo club will take on.

    We have had knee jerk reactions on getting rid of each manager and tried to create a diiferent system from scratch. We went wild on Braithwaite and Assombalonga when we already had 2 strikers who had produced previously in the championship (i’m talking Stuani and Bamford here but the same could be said of Gestede). Chuck in Fletcher and we had a confusion of strikers and no supply line and that is still to be sorted out. Then TP arrives and it is clear that he is not keen on Bamford, Assombalonga, Fletcher or Braithwaite so why do we still have 3 of the 4. Yet another waste of resources when the manager doesnt trust them to fit his system and doesnt let any of them have a run in the team and dents their confidence in the process. For what it’s worth, i think Braithwaite has an awful attitude and downed tools when the window closed but its TP’s job to get the most from him and that has been a failure.

    I think its too late for TP to evolve and change his philosophy so i think its play offs for us and then see the same old struggles in scoring against the better teams. Then a management team of Woody and Downing.

    2. Chris

      What I would say is that Bamford got more game time under TP’s stewardship, same goes for Adama.

      Agents and players want to have a move, if they want to leave let them go.

      Blame TP for what he does wrong, do not tag on assumed blame.

      Otherwise I agree a lot of what say.

      1. I dont see any blame in Pulis not being a fan of Bamford, i dont agree with him but all managers seek certain things and PB seemingly didnt tick enough boxes. The time he did get was due to an enforced change after Rudy’s injury and for me he took that chance and should have featured in the play offs and was an indicator to PB that whatever he produced still wasnt going to fit his style of play so the writing was on the wall. I dont see it as an agent/player move – no possibility of Bamford being a problem player if any move was blocked.

    5. Chris, you said the point I have always wondered about in Boro’s manager appointments: “We have had knee jerk reactions on getting rid of each manager and tried to create a different system from scratch.”

      This is where we lose a lot of money as a club. I have always thought that there should be some continuity in appointing a new manager. Like Liverpool did in their best days.

      First we had Mogga with emphasis on attacking footy. Next Karanka with ultra minded defending policy. Then we went for Monk and more flair. Then Pulis and more solid.

      What I try to say that we too often start from the scratch. We should be evolving rather than from going from one extreme to another. That is how we lose money and time.

      Never buy more than four players per window. Constant evolving rather than starting from scrach every three years or so.

      We lost a match on Saturday but not the battle. Up the Boro!

      1. Jarkko

        It’s not only one match we are concerned about it’s the way that we have performed this season a lot of-us cannot believe that we are third after some pretty abysmal performances

        Hanging on to one goal leads, only performing for half a game letting teams take the attacking advantage and this is at home !

        No it’s not just one match for it goes much deeper than that and quite frankly I can’t see is going up or even a real change in our performances we look poor and we are poor !

        OFB

      2. Jarkko has a point about managerial knee jerking and having some semblance of continuity which is what Watford and Brentford have tried to do otherwise we end up with a succession of Managers with differing styles requiring different players. From AK we went to Monk with a fair few cleared out, then from Monk we went to TP who has a totally opposed philosophy to Monk on setting up his team.

        The consequence of that is SG has now spent small fortunes trying to give his new man what he wants each time he spins the bottle. All that aside I can’t remember when our recruitment/transfer strategy last uncovered a talent that was an upgrade on what we already had and added value. We got Traore who wasn’t ready but lost Adomah which was an immediate hit and no replacement. OK I can hear arguments that we eventually sold Adama for a profit but we were also relegated from the Premiership because of buying poorly and in the main mercenary Latin dross whose hearts were infinitely smaller than their pay packets (Negredo apart).

        On OFB’s point about it not just being one game, he is 100% correct, this hasn’t been a blip. Our defence has looked more shaky and less believable in a succession of games stretching back to mid September. We got lucky at Brentford not because of great defending but because Randolph saved our sorry butts. The lack of outbursts and criticism of Randolph for Saturday evening highlights that the fans know that if it weren’t for him we would probably be at least five or six points worse off so far. That isn’t a great defensive structure or mentality it is creaking and we can all see that.The fact that it needs all the midfield to protect them kills us before we even start.

        The morose inducing Midfield is quite frankly past the stage of settling in or adjusting to new requirements. That part of the team is the longest established and most settled in terms of familiarity with each other and the Manager. It wasn’t working great last season and it is now worse this season. Its either the Managers fault or the Players not following instruction, regardless, something needs sorting and ruthlessly.

        Downing is working his socks off but rarely does anything come from it because as soon as the others get involved the move dies a slow lingering death. Like or loathe Stewy he is the quickest and most skilful footballer who regularly gets a game under Pulis but he can’t shoot to save his life and its not unreasonable to be expecting five or six goals from him over a season. He used to score goals, whats gone wrong?

        Besic has something but he is a liability because the undeniable skill that he does possess doesn’t result in anything. As much as he can dance past three players he will inevitably lose it before he passes it rendering his skill worthless. Its very similar in a way to Adama and having a footballing brain, having the ability but no profit from it is ultimately worthless.

        Howson is another who we thought we would begetting six or so goals from in midfield but his shooting is almost non existent. Clayts is the enforcer in front of the defence so I can forgo his lack of goals especially as seven times out of ten he is MOM but when he does get a shot away his accuracy beggars belief from a supposed professional footballer.

        I have no idea why we even wanted Saville let alone pay a rumoured £8m for him and when he has played apart from that great strike against Bolton he doesn’t look anything more than a £350K plodder. McNair just seems to be a mystery full stop, I haven’t a clue what he does well and looks every inch a player from a relegated side.

        All the above screams at the fans that its garbage, painful to watch and I will say it for the first time about this Manager but utterly clueless. Three or four poor games are one thing but it is now very firmly becoming established as the norm. Its as seemingly acceptable as was the futility of selecting Gestede. If it continues we will be 10th or 12th come end of February and the knives will be out for TP but at that point it is too late for Pulis, too late for Gibson and too late for Boro.

        The Season opener at Millwall was a shocker, in fact it was worse than dross. The substitutions changed things and from that unexpected pick up we went on a run. That run petered out when the August signings arrived and Gestede was declared fit again. To the unwashed and uneducated fan sat in the stands it is now starting to look to all intents and purposes that TP has a very strange mindset and presently can’t see the wood for the trees. Meanwhile he serially alludes to not spending SG’s money and drops hints about someone before him wasting it without actually coming straight out with it. The signings before he arrived were in the case of 80% of them either a waste of money or overvalued and in most cases probably both.

        The signings since TP arrived however haven’t exactly set new standards, indeed the very same “Monk sentiments” can be levelled at himself or whomever is responsible for the newer arrivals. Could it be that the people responsible for recruiting are exactly the same people as before and that the Manager has zero say in signings? We know that in part that is possibly the case but I doubt that TP is the type to accept having no input at all let alone the final word. We know he wanted a few players that he didn’t get and that he wanted Besic whom he did eventually get. McNair and Saville I presume he must have wanted considering the Saville fee that makes the Assombalonga price seem a steal. If TP didn’t want them then we clearly have far bigger and deeper rooted problems at the club and if I was TP I would walk away from it now.

        There are in fairness some mitigating factors for Pulis in that we failed to recruit any wingers. Our lack of goals isn’t just about not converting chances, thats just a deflection from the stark staring bleeding obvious just like the three games in seven days joke which didn’t seem to affect Villa despite having a day less to recover. Our “creative” midfield resembles a Conservative Christmas Party, imagine being stuck in the Kitchen with a glass of sherry and Ian Duncan Smith, Theresa May, John Major and William Hague for company. No wonder we don’t score goals, there is nothing but dull, predictable, comatose blandness right across the middle of the park.

        An isolated striker with that lot to depend on should be on suicide watch. No wonder Britt has given up, how on earth TP continually thought that an unfit Gestede who can’t trap a ball, hold up play and has a 50p shaped forehead was going to be any sort of solution is cause for massive concern. Whether Bamford was a Pulis type player or not, comparing Paddy’s goals to minutes ratio on the pitch under TP to all of his other Strikers was blindingly obvious. He had a Striker that didn’t fit his preferred “physical profile” but somehow in spite of that he scored yet TP prefers an unfit Striker that fits his preferred “physical profile” who doesn’t score?

        That our Play Off hopes were spurned by ignoring Bamford for a clearly unfit Gestede irked me greatly at the time. As time wore on over the summer I figured that maybe he should be allowed to do it his way and that long term it will all work out but its pretty clear that he has absolutely no idea how to address our constipated midfield and as for a Striker and goals he just seems detached from reality ignoring the Elephant in the room. Survival tactics are great when you are 18th in the Premiership but title winning promotion tactics means that you have to win games, not draw them and it means beating your biggest competitors not defending in depth hoping to bore them into submission.

        Hugill when he stays on his feet is good at battling and scrapping which is great to see but Paddy didn’t battle and scrap, he dropped a shoulder turned, left them for dead chasing his shadow as he went on to score. Hugill isn’t that type of Striker, he needs service and needs feeding, in a totally different way but equally true the same applies to Britt. Do we supply either of them? The short answer in No? Why? Well our midfield is camped five yards outside of our own 18 yard box and I’ve seen acne break out quicker. To add balance the same applies for Gestede assuming that TP had identified at Rockliffe what it is that justified his inclusion.

        So my ramble is that this wasn’t just one game. Playing the Pulis way has worked in some games but it is becoming increasingly obvious that he has got himself lost in a fog as opposition Managers have sussed him out at this level. Norwich, Derby, Forest, even WBA to a degree and now Villa have all shown that its not working. Arguably Rotherham proved that point even more as did Preston if ever the bleeding obvious needed ramming home. Whatever the cause of the scoring sterility is it needs to stop and stop now before our League position starts to mirror our form guide.

        Play Saville as an attacking Midfielder if needs be who gets goals and not as a Clayton body double. Play Wing because he crunches into tackles, shoots and when he does it is actually on or very near the target. Play Tavernier because he has energy, enthusiasm and the skill to beat a man. That means no Downing, no Besic and no Howson, drastic maybe but something has to change. Top it off and play Britt or Fletcher up front with Hugill and lets see if we can make a silk purse out of a pig’s ear.

        1. That’s a great post RR

          It mirrors my thoughts exactly and the mood of the supporters in the ground it really is a very subdued atmosphere

          Even Mrs OFB asked why the Boro drummer had stopped banging the drum in the second half as he had given up like the rest of the players !

          I was pleased when TP signed as our manager but I’m beginning to think he’s just a one trick pony and agree that other teams have sussed our tactics.

          No I’m not shouting for a new manager as I agree it means a lot of change but perhaps a tactical coach might help !

          OFB

  143. Just watching EFL on Quest and the commentator at the Sheff Utd v Leeds stated earlier that both teams started the match as undefeated against teams from their own County this season. Wrong! Even the Yorkshire Post acknowledge that Middlesbrough is in Yorkshire as it includes Boro in its top ten Yorkshire mini-league performances each week.

  144. Judging by the tone of the contributions on this forum recently and especially today after yesterday’s debacle, there is a general sense of unease about the current situation at MFC and a good deal of apprehension about the future given that the parachute payments disappear next season.

    Some neutral observers or maybe supporters of other clubs might wonder why this should be the case given the recent relative success of the team over the last few years – play off contenders in 2014/15, automatic promotion winners in 2015/16, a Premier League team in 2016/17, play off contenders again in 2017/2018 and in 2018/19 currently in 3rd place in the Championship?

    It seems to me that the unease and apprehension is because we as ardent supporters haven’t seen any positive progression in the quality of the team, the style of play and the tactics employed over this period. The club spent close to £50 million in the summer and none of the players bought have materially improved on the quality of the players on the books at the time and, in some cases have made it worse. The style of play has not evolved at all since Karanka came to the club and yesteday’s thumping highlighted the huge gap between our prehistoric style of football and Villa’s modern, attractive and very effective approach to the game. As for the tactics, as someone pointed out above earlier, defending with ten men behind that ball might help keep clean sheets but it does little to win matches.

    The lack of positive progression cannot be due to lack of money because a huge amount of money has been invested in players and management. It must therefore be due to poor management decisions and execution. Why have players been bought that add little yet at exorbitant prices? What criteria are used to evaluate team managers before they are appointed? What criteria are used to appoint heads of recruitment, chief executives and other senior executives and how is their performance monitored and action taken if they are performing poorly? Is there a clear short, medium and long-term business plan for the club within which all decisions are taken? The current situation would indicate that a lot of this is lacking and the result is what we all see on the pitch.

    So what next? My personal view is I doubt that the current team is good enough to win promotion this season even if new players are brought in in January and, in the unlikely event that it did, does anyone seriously expect anything other than immediate relegation? I don’t believe that there will be any positive progression under Pulis and I have serious questions about the competence of the senior management team at the club.

    The really sad aspect of all this is that there was a big opportunity over the last couple of years to use the parachute money to establish a group of players with a forward-looking manager capable of building a team that would not only win promotion but would be good enough to hold its place in the Premier League. That opportunity has gone.

    That’s why there is a feeling of unease and apprehension rife among the fans. They fear that their team is not moving forward and any team that doesn’t move forward inevitably slips into decline.

  145. Take a look at the MFC coaching staff….

    Assistant Manager Sam Ellis, Centre Half

    Jonathan Woodfate First team coach – Centre Half

    Curtis Fleming First team coach- Full Back

    Academy Director Craig Liddle – Centre Half

    Head of Recruitment. Gary Gill – Defensive Midfielder

    I’m no detective but there seems to be a common denominator here……

  146. Now if I wish to clutch at straws, Boro are 3 points better off so far this season than they were against the same 15 opponents they met last season. Also comparing our results against the 3 relegated teams of last season (Stoke, Swansea and West Brom = 5 points) plus the 2 promoted teams of last season (Wigan and Rotherham = 4points) against last season’s results against the 3 promoted teams (Wolves, Cardiff and Fulham = 0 points) and the two relegated teams (Sunderland and Barnsley = 6 points, that’s 9 points gained (5+4) against 6 points last season (0+6) another 3 points better off, so 6 points in total after 20 matches. Now equate that to 46 matches and we have an extra 14 points. As we managed 76 points in total with a similar gain in our remaining matches would give us 90 points this season which is the same number that Cardiff accrued last season. Complicated, ain’t it?

    But one can come to anything you want with spread sheets and statistics. Unfortunately the reality is that 35 points so far in 20 matches is 1.75 per match which equates to 80.5 for the season which would probably only guarantee a place in the top 6. So which figures do you prefer, the pipe dream of clutching at straws or reality?

    1. Ken, as you say you can prove anything with selective use of statistics. The problem is as I argued in my post above that the fans see what is happening on the pitch and in the transfer market and they don’t see anything that gives them hope that our team is progressing in a positive direction. What they see is the opposite.

  147. Two very good posts from Chris as looking from the outside and regular Boroexile.

    There appears to be something fundamentally wrong with MFC and its set up as we have seen over the last few seasons. From really poor recruitment and tens of millions of wasted monies, to stop start Management.

    There is however one common denominator in all of this and that of course is the boss, Mr Gibson. I along with the majority of fans appreciate his love and financial support for the club, but at the end of the day he makes the ultimate decision and as a consequence has to take the criticism for getting things wrong.

    As has been said, it is the longer term that is the worry and whether we are heading towards the edge of the cliff. we have a high number of long term contracted players on (Championship) high wages. Players with a very diminished paid for value and some with hardly any value because of constant injuries. Will we have to sell our best to survive. Fry, Randolf??

    I just cannot see Mr Pulis changing his ways and we will continue to struggle to score goals and win points even if he manages to persuade SG to cough up some more of his dwindling stash for somebody with pace assuming the recruitment team can be trusted to find one.

    And talking of fees and what we have paid for mediocrity, I believe 24 year old John McGinn cost Villa just under 2mil.

  149. Very disappointing performance on Saturday but having seen highlights of Villa v Forest I suspected that if Villa played with the same pace and skill they would overrun us (as Forest had done and Derby at the start). Having failed to sign a top striker and pacy midfielders (or at least some who wanted to join us) in the August window I will be very surprised if we find them in January and they are available. If we are to stay in the top 6 we will depend on the other clubs around us remaining inconsistent and us beating the lower clubs though shortage of goals will put even this in doubt. I would rather give more of our younger players a chance though I don’t think TP will change his views and will persist with our ponderous midfield and lonely striker.

  150. Norwich lost two of their star players in James Maddison and Josh Murphy to Premier League clubs but had no hesitation in replacing them from their academy with Max Aarons and Todd Cantwell, Derby County sign Harry Wilson from Liverpool on loan, Villa have Tammy Abraham on loan from Chelsea, all youngsters 21 years of age or younger with pace and have played them regularly whilst Tony Pulis says Dael Fry and Marcus Tavernier have a lot to learn yet and must be protected. Liverpool and Chelsea are considering recalling Wilson and Abraham in January, such high esteem do they consider them to be. Says it all really.

    1. Ken

      Lets hope that Liverpool and Chelsea do recall their players because there is nothing to give optimism at the moment that we are going to improve despite having over £35m worth of “talent” on the bench against Villa. Any and all external interventions are welcome.

      Saturdays home game against Blackburn will be interesting if things go pear shaped and after AK’s recent revenge I wouldn’t bet against Mogga twisting the knife then up next comes unpredictable QPR and Schteeve at Loftus Road!

  151. Yes indeed Ken. One of the very few things the fans see as positive at the moment Is the emergence of three talented hone grown players in Fry, Tavernier and Wing. The problem is they can only contribute when they are selected to play.

  152. I see FIFA are going to vote in January on a change to the loan system, possibly restricting clubs to being only allowed to loan out 6 – 8 players, at the moment Chelsea have 39 players out on loan.

    Come on BORO.

  153. I am amazed that very few bloggers come straight out and say the bleedin obvious, that Pulis should stop behaving like a dinosaur, make Tav and Wing, and Hugill plus Fry at centre back regular first picks, and stand or fall by the results. They are the future of our club, every thing tat I read about Wing tells me that we got lucky when we signed him. Reading accounts by those who watched him in the lower leagues,is illuminating, one said that his shooting is so good because he gets a double bend by the way he hits the ball, and that was my opinion when he scored his worldie in the last cup game.
    I do not think that such things mean much to our manager.

    1. Plato, It’s no wonder that other managers want them on loan. I don’t think it’s so much a dinosaur problem as an ostrich and sand problem. I suppose other animals and birds are available! You are right however.

      UTB,

      John

    2. I’ve just finished an Interview with Ron Bone who recently retired as the Boro chief and Lewis Wing was the last player he signed for the club.

      He had to fight off a lot of interest from other clubs including Wolves and Sunderland but thankfully all Lewis’s family are Boro supporters so the deal was never in doubt !

      Interesting that Ron also said over 95 players were turned into professional footballers during his time with the club and he thought his best signing was …….

      Stewy Downing

      Ron also went on to say that he thought Dael Fry would go on to the very top of his profession as a Footballer

      OFB

      2. Most of us had hoped it would have been International Week this week At least Ron Bone had cut the meat with us better.

        BTW. Who was the chap called McGinn playing for Villa? Was he a left-over in the distilling process when they raised professional players in the Highlands …

        Up the Boro!

  154. Right, opinion’s out and I really don’t care who I upset here, simply because my comments in the past have been dismissed as being nothing more that whinges or character assassinations, well, looking at the blog today there’s a damn sight more brick bats than plaudits in regards to the dross put before us, but I’ve yet to see a whinge post being applied to any one of them. Journeymen, well, I think that was what I posted again a while back, yet a certain poster derided me because of that comment plus, I was accused of panning Gestede for not trying, which I never did but, try as you might, if you’re not good enough, then you just ain’t going to make it sunshine, he just isn’t good enough and never will be.

    Plato has been banging on almost to annoyance about Tavernier, Wing, Chapman and Fry, I kept my powder dry on the subject until I actually saw the journeymen that were brought in to perform, or not as the case has turned out to be. I’m 100% with him when we look at the stupid millions spent on the likes of Aassombalonga, Saville and McNair, the likes of which are warming their rear ends on the bench at a cost that would boggle most of our peers in this league. Why, when we have more than good enough players from the academy? Is it a big up in the market to show that we have cash to burn and can buy who we want, despite the fact that we can’t and the ones we do want won’t come here (or there in my case being here in Oz)?

    Lastly, GHW, is your surname Pulis, because this bloke can do no wrong in your eyes and you defend him to the hilt, I realise he took over a stew of a squad, but to add a McNaire and a Saville to the mix at such a cost beggars belief, and he sanctioned it all. You also said (not exact) that you didn’t want to sound like a broken record in that you can put your team out there, but if they don’t try then it’s not TP’s fault, my response was that if the record’s broken then why keep playing the bloody thing, again, not exact.

    This situation has been brewing for a long while, some of us have spoken of our concerns but, we’ve been slapped down because of our league position and defensive record, we’re now finally being shown by virtually every team in the league just how good we are, or should that read just how good we aren’t.

    I’m expecting lots of flack over this, but when you proudly wear your Boro badge very visibly on your chest, the last thing you want is to be repaid with not just that performance, but every performance since the transfer window closed and the lads that got us where we were, where dumped.

    Again, I’m not a whinger (you know who you are), I do not assassinate characters and I definitely wear my Park End birthright on my sleeve. I’m a Boro lad to the core and as such I can’t take flannel of any sort, I just feel at the moment that I’m being spinned more flannel than the the bathroom section in M&S.

    I’m angry, very, very angry.

    1. PPIP

      I would call that’s a passionate post with some valid points made

      We are all entitled to our opinions on this blog and we let it ride and as we have said before we don’t play the man as we are all Boro fans on here.

      Let’s face it there is more passion on here than Saturday

      OFB

    2. PPIP – what you say reflects the core view of football supporters who have the local area and club in their DNA. We want to see the players put a shift in, show determination, grit and play for the badge.

      We want to see them play with the same effort that we put into our jobs, whether that be working a shift in the steel works or working where your job security is never that secure! It always frustrates me that players never get sacked for poor performances, missing targets or having a poor sickness record! In fact they can be a complete donkey and still get paid! Trouble is we have got too many of them at the moment.

      Unfortunately, players now are mercenaries who only play when they feel like it and what their agent tells them to do for the best way to line their pockets with cash.

      As an earlier poster said, sorry can’t remember who, the local lads do appear to be more committed and prepared to work and maybe that says a lot. The likes of Braithwaite can saunter off to another club for more money withoutz a care in the world apart from the massive wage that they receive.

      The money in the game is stupid and the paying fans who watch live are only a small proportion of the income streams and therefore not important in the scheme of things.

      At Boro we are fortunate with Mr Gibson although I agree that he has to take a share of the blame for where we are and as others have said for knee jerk reactions to managers.

      I have a feeling that he SG is not wanting to put any more money in to the club to make us fully competitive in the premiership (and I can’t say that I blame him). If we go up this season, then great but if we don’t, then we will see TP going at the end of his contract and a round of cost cutting again.

      I want to see Boro win and be successful although I am a realist who can see that the money required is vast amounts. Premiership football is not the bee all and end all but I would like to see commitment and entertaining football which is not the case at the moment.

      UTB

      1. BBD

        it was me? I think who said the local lads seemed more committed to the Boro cause on Saturday

        Braithwaite was shocking and needs to be shot out of the club as soon as possible!

        I’m beginning to warm to Hugill after his whole hearted display on Saturday and yes there are more skilled players but he was fighting for the badge!

        OFB

    3. PPP
      Lovely blog, but please put a smile on your face, you are quite correct, and amongst friends. The consensus on here is finally coming into line.
      Our manager talks nonsense, and is not picked up on it. I’d better give an example as I’ve raised the subject, he sold Traore, then said, he was looking for a very fast winger in the window, doh! My head hurts.
      We even say that Tav is a nice young player, quite wrong, he is a great find who is more than capable of being our left sided attacker every match, we don’t score, he has two very fine goals to his credit, and a couple of assists. The manager says Wing has a lot to learn, and kicks over the water container when he scores a worldie, a closer look at that goal shows that he bent it both ways on it’s way into the net.
      Which was exactly what the people who managed him during his rise to the top had telling all who would listen for weeks.
      Guess who had not been listening.
      The frightening thing about all this is that under this manager no young gem that we might unearth would be signed, he would simply refuse to consider them on age grounds.
      Whilst signing useless veterans who will clutter up the wage bill for seasons to come.
      Just a point, but all the go getters in both Prem. and Champ. The teams that score goals and attack, and posses young talented players who play every match, are managed by foreign managers who are full of new ideas and ambition. Just saying.

  155. The more pertinent stat is that we have won just five of our last 15 league games. Take away the early season surge, and thank God we can’t, and we’re border line relegation material.

    The problem is that no-one, inside the club certainly, nor out seems to know where we go from here, how we resurrect things. It is not a lost cause but equally we are in something of a soulless abyss.

    Where we can validly point the finger though, is where the club has gone wrong.

    From the top, there’s Gibbo. TP wasn’t my choice but he had to appoint someone and it could have been worse. The difficulty comes when the new boss, TP, wants money to buy a player. Gibbo has to back his man, has to. But when there is an absurdity of a looming purchase, what does he do? He backs his man of course, has to. If he doesn’t the whole system falls down.

    But when it comes to McNair, to Saville, to Rudy G or Braithwaite (on another watch) what does Gibbo do? Even the most rudimentary look at Wikipedia will show Saville is overpriced or that Paddy failed in a League One side. Google a bit more and he’ll see that Braithwaite’s wife is a French TV presenter/wannabe TV presenter and unlikely to be a stabilising influence where it comes to putting down roots in Durham/North Yorks.

    TP also should know this and probably does, but it’s not his money, nor club really and all contracted up himself he’s willing to take the risk.

    But someone, somewhere has to make a stand, to say no, this is a bad buy, we’re not doing it. Yes, Bolasie had a decent game on Saturday but has only started two league games for Villa. And he turned us down, not the other way around. We need to get so much better at how and who we bring in.

    Poor recruitment is a massive part in why we are failing now. We have overpriced, money chasing, poor characters and Gibbo, TP, Gill, Bauser are all to blame, it’s just the apportioning we don’t know quite know.

    Then there are the fringe add ons, Baath, McQueen etc. Why bother? Throw in Fry and Tav and Lewis, they’ll never make it if they don’t get a proper chance.

    We are where we are still only because this is a poor league and, by extension, that gives us a chance of promotion still. But it will not happen when the club – and every decision made by TP will need to be ratified – sells players of the ilk of Bamford and Traore and replaces them with safety first dross.

    We do not even have an outstanding defence, merely a team that does nothing but defend. Nothing worthwhile, in life as in football, is built on such shallow foundations.

    Ship the Braithwaites etc all out, at whatever loss, the lot of them and start again. But retain Randolph, Fry, Ayala, Friend, Clayton, Downing, Howson and Mo (maybe), Hugill, Britt (I think he has not been treated well, Tav, Wing, Chapman and all the kids. It’s not a bad beginning.

    Ship the rest out next month – all of them – and If TP goes too, then so be it. And if a bigger fish or two should go also, again, so be it. We really do need a new way of thinking.

    1. Like your thinking Richard! Play the committed players and you never know what may happen…………..

      15 points from a possible 45 looks even worse as a number and is way off 2 points a game that is required.

      1. To add to the 5 wins, we’ve also drawn 7 from those last 15 and Saturday was the third defeat – which is 22 points from 45. I was actually planning to create a table for tomorrow’s article to show how we’ve fared since that opening season form.

  156. Richard

    Traore leaving was nothing to do with TP, he had no say in the matter. You could blame TP because he managed to coax some decent performances out of him that were beyond the wit of Barcelona, Villa and our previous managers.

    That made people sit up and take notice so that the release clause was invoked, a clause put in Adama’s contract whilst TP was not even a twinkle in SG’s eyes.

    Someone approached Paddy and his agent and said he would be number 9 at Leeds. He wore the number nine shirt whilst he warmed the bench until his injury.

    Blame TP for what should be blamed for.

    1. I agree about Traore Ian but to play Gestede in front of Bamford was a travesty. Imagine being Paddy and seeing Gestede hobble onto the pitch in that Play Off match at Villa Park. I know my thoughts at the time and at the final whistle and if I was Paddy my thoughts would have been extremely verbal and some.

      That ridiculous managerial incompetence cost us any hope of getting to Wembley and left us with a Striker who has shown little to no ability at the cost of one that annoyingly scored but his face didn’t fit for whatever reason. Maybe Paddy is a royal pain, I personally doubt it but so were Viduka, Ravanelli and Boksic, and I know which type of Striker I want playing for Boro. Thoroughbreds are for the sport of Kings, Donkeys belong on the beach. Is it any wonder when someone told his agent that Leeds wanted to play him at the time Paddy was happy to go or maybe his fancy dress outfits just weren’t up to scratch.

      TP made his decision and had Gestede now been three goals ahead of say Maupay in the Championship scoring charts then he was more than vindicated. Truth is what happened with Gestede is exactly what most Boro fans on here and other forums predicted and for that he should be blamed. With Traore we would have been lucky to get the Taxi fare for him eighteen months ago and for that he should accept the plaudits but it cuts both ways.

      1. RR
        Could I just add a rider about the play off’s.
        His monumental blunder was in the first leg at home, facing a team of croc’s the only tactics were to go at them from the off, run them off their feet and try to settle it in one, which a certain AK did in a similar first leg against Brentford.
        Us standing around for the first half was a gift from the gods to Villa.
        So he has form, this man.

  157. Intensity.

    Intensity and team work. That is what we were missing on Saturday and have been missing for most parts since beginning of October.

    I think this must be difficult to apply by managers. As TP has bemoaned for weeks now.

    Even Mogga has had the problem with his Blackburn team recently. Until last Saturday, that is.

    “I think the intensity was back to where we know we can play at,” Mogga told the Lancashire Telegraph.

    Easier said than to be done I must say.

    Up the Boro!

  159. Just looking at how our own Boro loan players had been doing over the weekend and was shocked to see the report mention Marvin Johnson who is on loan at Sheff Utd.

    I’d completely forgotten about him and that another 1.5 mill we wasted!

    We do need a left back becaise quite frankly George is not up to it anymore….

    A nice guy but not influential at this level

    OFB

  160. I see Bamford is being raised from the grudge box and dusted off.

    With the exception, possibly of Norwich most of the teams around us have struggled for consistency I’m sure fans of our closest rivals have been bemoaning about missed opportunities to go top or run away with the league.

    Once again we see players being labelled Donkeys. The fact remains we have only been beaten three times this season and are still in contention at the right end of the league. We don’t have a divine right to win every game and this outpouring of angst after a poor display is normal amongst football fans.

    Mark Hughes paid the price for a run of bad results, do we really want to see him replaced by TP?

    1. Bamford will continue to be “dusted off” until we sign a better replacement in other words a Striker who scores goals. Selling Bamford is one thing if we are amongst the top scorers, we aren’t and that is the main reason we are clinging on to where we are instead of being 6 or 7 points clear. Having the best defence in the EFL is of no use if we can’t win games and to do that we need to score goals, something which this present side is incapable of doing.

      Without goals TP will be gone in the Summer when his contract expires and we finish 11th in the Championship. As a consequence I will keep raising Bamford until we have goals in the “Goals For” column. We have sold decent players, not outstanding just decent at this level, but the recruits are inferior to what we already had at our disposal.

      2. I didn’t say that GHW, Bamford scores goals and we can’t all season. Goals win games, donkeys don’t.

        Its not unreasonable to have thought at the time (as I and others did) that selling one of your most likely goalscorers without adequate replacement wasn’t clever management. If TP did honestly and genuinely believe that Gestede would get him goals then that is a worry. How many Paddy would get I don’t know and we will never know but I’d put my house on him getting three times more than Gestede.

      3. We are not privy to the reasons why Bamford left the club, but looking at his previous history it may not be down to footballing reasons alone.

    2. Grovehillwalla
      I thought for one moment you meant TP replaced by Hughes.
      That would put a lot of supporters on suicide watch.
      Just a thought, but I see his club have rushed a European manager into the post. Quite what we are doing employing a time expired English manager who believes, as an article of faith, in solid middle of the road, middle aged players on their fourth club,(average price, oh, about 5-6 million, quite how many? Dunno, does anybody?
      We could live with it all, if only he would stop selecting them, against all reason or form.
      It would be a big help if the kids could only get on the field, but they must have their sleep and their bottles, so it’s not as easy as we think.

  161. GHW, do you honestly think that what you see on the pitch each week is a team and a style of play not only capable of winning promotion this season but also capable, with some additions, of cementing a place in the Premier League?

  162. I’ve been watching MonksBrum, MoggaRovers and AKForest, as I call them, with interest.

    The first two teams are doing just fine, with an outside chance of the play-offs. Jutkiewicz is enjoying arguably his best form of all time. Danny Graham, with eight in twenty games, isn’t doing too bad either.

    The third team have found their feet and have crept up to within a point of where Boro are, while playing genuinely good football (Forest fans’ words, not mine). The manic 5-5 at Villa aside, they’ve also added clean sheets and resilience (six in their last ten) to goal scoring.

    They also had the sense to bring on board an experienced promotion winning forward in Lewis Grabban. As we did, with Nugent. Grabban’s goals, and a supply line of the insanely cheap Lolley and the much less cheap Carvalho, ought to speak for themselves.

    As Bamford’s goals, attitude or not, ought to have done last year.

    Even Guedioura (!!) seems to be doing okay.

    You can argue that AKForest have spent roughly £25 million – but note that under Pulis, and Monk, we’ve invested around double that. It’s how you invest it that matters, and the fears that we’d make losses on the likes of De Roon, Stuani, Espinosa, Rhodes etc were debunked when the majority broke even or returned a profit. Although hindsight helps, admittedly.

    We did a lot wrong during the tenures of Mogga, AK and Monk but all three had a lot going for them. And Pulis has a lot going for him also. His track record suggests this.

    So what’s the common denominator? Well, I can only conclude that the buck has to stop at the very top. The way we are organised and the way we are run.

    Each manager has brought something to the table that the previous one has apparently lacked and Boro have invariably ended up going the same way. And often the manager is scapegoated for a situation that is, quite explicitly, not entirely of his making.

    I mean, I’ve just taken a look at our coaching staff barring Pulis and Ellis. Woodgate, Fleming, Liddle etc. The common denominator being that they’ve all played for Boro.

    Do we want to settle for being a cosy family club or do we actually want to go places?

    I’ve been critical of Eurocracy and its overcomplications, but the fact that Germany, Spain, Italy and France have twenty international trophies between them to England’s one won’t go away.

    Resent Eurocracy all you like – but its success is proven. Maybe, just maybe, we need to be open-minded to it after all.

  164. This team can be capable of winning promotion this season. The table does not lie.

    But also capable, with some additions, of cementing a place in the Premier League? That is irrelevant question now.

    I think our team is better than Cardiff was last season. And they got promoted automatically. Fulham through the play-offs. So there are different styles to win promotion.

    Grafting, like. Up the Boro! .

    1. Jarkko

      I’m sorry but you must be watching a different team to Redcar Red and myself because believe me what we’ve seen over the past two months is not a promotion team in any shape or form.

      But then that is why we have a blog so that all opinions can be expressed ( even if they’re wrong !)

      OFB

      1. OFB, I said we can be promoted and we are a better side than Cardiff was last season. And that we are third in the table. So there are even worse teams.

        I defeat won’t be a reason to give up. I have seen nearly all matches on TV this season. Not Wolves form but on par with Cardiff.

        Up the Boro!

  165. I’m just being realistic. It would be great to play free flowing attractive football but we simply don’t have the players for it. Recruitment has been a long standing problem at the club ever since money took over the game, with added problem of our geographical location. This is reflected by the large amount of commenters who don’t live on Teesside.

    TP has a record of achieving results with only the basic tools, a bit like using a screwdriver on your DIY job when you don’t have a shiny new chisel.

    I admit that the current fare is not enjoyable to watch, but when in the past has it been? It’s not as if we have a tradition of playing fast flowing expansive football.

    There is no magic formula for success.

    In the modern game the ends justify the means.

    1. Football has, or is, just emerging from the grim defensive rubbish which has held a grip on it for years.
      We have chosen to hire an old manager who lived by that mantra, and, unfortunately, intends to hold on to this job by the same means.
      Regardless of any differences on this blog, when you consider the sheer pleasure given by the young players who have arrived by luck, and needed even more luck to get on the pitch. It is terrifying to think that our manager has had no hesitation in telling the world that it would be a long and winding road before they got into his team. ( remember he is boasting that he intends to “improve ” the squad in the window) be afraid, be very afraid.

    2. I was one of those strongly pushing for Pulis, he ticked all the boxes, from unfashionable clubs of a similar stature to keeping those same Clubs in the Premiership and with it financial security for MFC. I knew his tactics would be uninspiring and I also knew that it wouldn’t be pretty to watch but neither was Karanka’s and neither was getting beat each week in the Premiership. The ends justified the means with his appointment and still do but and its a huge “but”, right here and right now it isn’t working and hasn’t since September.

      If our form since then continues we are going nowhere. We are tenth in the Championship for Home form and third for Away form. That form is a lot more damning if we take a more recent timespan, last six Home games we are nineteenth but last six Away games we are still third believe it or not!

      Grinding out results, sitting deep and picking teams off is clearly working away from home. Doing the same at the Riverside isn’t working and getting worse by the week. Right now it doesn’t even remotely even look like working and based on Brentford away and then Preston I have concerns that the Away bubble is about to burst very soon.

    3. I would agree with that GHW. There are plenty of “bigger” clubs who probably feel they should be in the Premier League.

      Leeds, Forrest, Sheff Wed, Villa, Derby, Stoke, WBA, Norwich, Sunderland to name just a few.

  167. I made a similar argument in 2016 – that blips happen, players are dropped, we say things in the heat of the moment we don’t mean, and it’s a game of fine margins. One chance taken or one fewer mistake really could make the difference. Why not be objective, reflective and accept it?

    It cut no ice with an increasingly rampant, ranting “walk the league” crowd online. I think Derby fans felt similar.

    Despite the fact that neither they nor Boro had been in the Premier League for years, and that Burnley and Hull possessed considerably greater amount of PL experience.

    Leadbitter, Downing and Nugent aside, the level of PL experience in the supposed “greatest squad in the league” was virtually zero.

    Bournemouth took 3 pts from 15 at one stage. They still won the league. United won 1 in 6 at one point during 1998-99. They still won the treble.

    Taking all that into account, I wouldn’t be surprised if Paul Clement and our old Basque buddy pre-meltdown muttered, “Why can’t they just ride the storm? Especially considering they’ve no divine right to promotion.”

    It probably hurt more for Clement because a few months before he was dismissed Mel Morris had promised not to dismiss the boss. Two months later he was undermining his authority by storming into the dressing room.

    That said.

    It’s easier to give managers more leeway when you’re commenting safely from a distance and admiring passages of Eurocrat passing on TV. Not when you’re at the stadium and demand emotion, pace, drama and noise.

    There was also AK and PC’s backdrop – Spain, where possession and shape are more important than speed, muscle and directness. It was clear at the time that both wanted to achieve success their way rather than the way Morris, or Gibbo, wanted for their clubs over a longer period of time.

    So while, given the points I made about Boro and Derby’s relative standing, it may seem that PC and AK were hard done by, you can also see why the disquiet shown towards both made sense.

  168. It also doesn’t help when you openly criticise the fans’ viewpoints, and players, in public, and shockingly dismiss a beloved crowd favourite from the coaching staff.

    Come to think of it, maybe PC and AK were like Tim Allen in Home Improvement.

    “I’m going to do things my way as long as we’re getting things done.”

    His neighbour then says…

    “Tim? (Tim shuts door) Tim, can we talk about compromise?”

  169. Its interesting that every time there’s an obvious disconnect between the club and fans,and I’m not saying there is a major one at the moment,
    We hear,and its getting a little old now,and that is
    A). We have the best chairman in the world, and
    B). We have one of the best academy’s in the world.
    Now I’m not suggesting , both comments haven’t some validity,but look at were the club is ,and has been for too long, the question is of course ,were now is the vision,going forward,
    The gap is now getting bigger and bigger between ourselves and the premiership,
    Pulis as been plying his trade at that level for years now, and does know the quality needed to compete at that level,even though he managed teams that could compare in size as Boro,and for the most part kept them competitive in a very tough market.
    Its obvious he doesn’t rate this squad as good enough,that’s why he keeps mentioning they are a good set of lads working together,
    I actually agree with him,.
    So,now the thing is ,what does Steve Gibson do, ?
    I believe he is snookered, we can’t get decent players to sign,unless he pays over the odds,and that’s a problem when the players and clubs are just looking at the money,the players down tools quickly if things don’t go their way,which has happened too many times to us recently.
    I hope,but I can’t see us going up right now,and maybe that’s our future, almost but not quite good enough.
    I mentioned awhile back the connection of the chairman and fans is none existent, and is it time he was called out on that,its time he at least gave us some clarification as to past and future decisions.
    But the again ,why should he,after all he is the best chairman in the world isn’t he?
    COB

    1. Interesting comment which I can kinda relate to, especially with the gulf in the finances between Championship and Premier League which is almost insurmountable without a very large amount of cash and sailing close to the FFP wind!

      You would think that the top clubs don’t want anybody else to join the club……

      I do feel that SG has reached the limit of his financial support as he cannot compete anymore, even if we go get promoted, hence some of the decisions which appear half hearted (In my view)to maybe appear to appease the fans.

      If that is the case, I would rather remain as we are than sell out to a big Chinese conglomerate who sees Boro as a tax reduction schem rather than having an interest in the club. I am not one for success at all costs…….

  170. In the same vane as what Simon was saying.
    Did AK get fired because he didn’t rate ,some in his squad,and certainly the signings we were making, but was over ruled by the recruitment committee, headed by the chairman?
    Mogga was either useless, or the committee, was, there again the committee are still there.

  171. Pulis had no say in Traore leaving but don’t let facts get in the way.

    I’m certainly not happy with the way things have gone over the last month or two and last Saturday was an absolute shocker. Pulis has, imo, made some poor decisions regarding selection and team tactics so I’m not a blinkered TP fan who believes he can do no wrong. But to keep on bringing up Traore as a stick to beat Pulis with is plain wrong. If proven otherwise I’m more than happy to be corrected.

    Bamford on the other hand is a different matter….

  172. When Bob Dennison was appointed Boro manager following relegation in 1954 it had been envisaged that he would soon get Boro promoted despite losing Wilf Mannion. He also took on the role of secretary of the club which seemed to be the norm in those days. What wasn’t envisaged was that he would stay for 9 years, the second longest tenure after Wilf Gillow and that Boro would still be a Second Division club when he left. Truth to tell was that Boro never looked like gaining promotion under his reign despite a forward line that eventually included 3 English internationals – Brian Clough, Alan Peacock and Eddie Holliday plus a Welsh international playmaker in Bill Harris. Despite having the Indian sign over Liverpool as I reported previously, the Merseysiders always looked a better bet for promotion.

    Boro had only had one ex-International footballer in their history, David Jack, who actually became disillusioned with football and later in life decided on a new career as manager of Sunderland Greyhound Stadium. So the appointment of Horatio Stratton Carter (known throughout his career as Raich) seemed to be a great coup at the time. As a player, like so many other great players, he probably lost the best days of his playing career during the Second World War. He was born in Sunderland and played for his local club 245 times as an inside forward scoring 118 goals, all before the War but I remember him as a Derby County player from 1945 to 1948 although I can’t actually recall seeing him play. He later became the player/manager of Hull City who he got promoted to the Second Division, and later at Leeds United where he built a team round the great John Charles, so seemed to have the pedigree when Boro appointed him as their manager in 1963.

    Boro had finished the previous season in 4th position three points behind second placed Chelsea, but their 9 match unbeaten run in the final matches of the season came well after most teams had finished their fixtures. Indeed Boro’s last match wasn’t played until the 21st May in the season of the long winter.

    Carter’s tenure started reasonably well with an established fullback partnership of Cyril Knowles and Gordon Jones, Mel Nurse at centre half, Ray Yeoman and Billy Horner as half backs, and a forward line of Arthur Kaye, Ian Gibson, Alan Peacock, Bill Harris and Bobby Braithwaite, the team looked a match for anyone in the League. There were goals aplenty in the first five matches – home wins over Plymouth 5-0, Newcastle 3-0, and Grimsby 6-0 plus an away win at Charlton 4-2, and Boro were 2nd in the League. The home form was impressive with 8 wins and 2 draws in their first 10 matches. The problem though was the away form, for after that win at Charlton they failed to win another match away from home and finished 10th. They even lost at 3rd Division Brentford in the FA Cup and at home to 4th Division Bradford Park Avenue after a replay in the League Cup.

    The 1964/65 season started in a similar pattern to the previous season. Boro comprehensively beat Southampton away 3-0 in the first match, Northampton (who surprisingly went on to gain promotion to the First Division as runners-up to Newcastle that season) 1-0 at home, and with draws against Huddersfield and the return fixture with the Cobblers, Boro were third. However the season didn’t get any better than that and a disastrous run of 7 defeats and 4 draws in eleven matches starting with a 0-2 home defeat to Newcastle on Boxing Day had Boro languishing in 20th position, one place above a relegation spot. Boro did manage 4 wins in their last 9 matches to finish 17th, but it had been a close call. Jim Irvine was top goalscorer with 20, and Boro did manage to reach the 5th Round of the FA Cup with a 6-2 win over Oldham (including an Irvine 🎩) and a 2-0 win against Charlton after a replay, before succumbing to Leicester at home 0-3.

    If we thought the previous season was bad, 1965/66 was even worse. Relegation to the Third Division for the first time in Boro’s history. A 0-6 home defeat to Huddersfield in August didn’t augur well, and Boro didn’t win any of their first 7 matches. A slight rally beating Ipswich 3-2 and Rotherham 4-0 with two draws in between at least pushed Boro up to halfway. That was followed by a defeat at Wolves and a defeat to Norwich, then a 5-2 home win over Portsmouth. Then another 6 match winless run had Boro 19th by mid December. Boro’s form afterwards was like ‘snakes and ladders’ – two wins, five winless matches, two more wins, then five defeats and down to 20th. Carter was dismissed in mid February, and Harold Shepherdson took over the reins of caretaker manager until the end of the season, but despite home wins over Preston and Bristol City, he was unable to halt the slide. A 0-6 defeat at Bolton on Easter Monday looked to have sealed Boro’s fate, but away wins at Leyton Orient and Norwich raised hopes of a reprieve with only 2 matches remaining, but defeats at Coventry and Cardiff where Dickie Rooks scored a 🎩 in a 3-5 defeat saw relegation confirmed. Jim Irvine was again top scorer with 15 league goals and 2 in a 4-2 League Cup win against Colchester.

    Carter’s reign had been a disaster, but it proved that top international players don’t always make good managers, however Boro’s next appointment went against the grain. Stan Anderson had been a magnificent player with all three major North East clubs, and duly got Boro promoted back into the Second Division in his first season. I’ve previously covered the Anderson years which Werdermouth has kindly recorded on a special website of some of my historical blogs, so I don’t propose to repeat that era, but will continue Boro’s history under the next Boro manager, Jack Charlton at a later date, probably next week.

    With some Boro fans at a low ebb this week, perhaps recalling the Raich Carter disaster was like pouring salt into old wounds, so hopefully reporting on the Jack Charlton era might raise the spirits of the contributors to this forum, and of course most of you will recall that period with fond memories.

    1. Here’s a statistical fact I’ve unearthed from my Nationwide Football Annual for what it’s worth.
      In the inaugural Premier League season of 1992/93 Arsenal scored the lowest number of goals, a mere 40 in their 42 matches but also conceded only 38 (second only to the 31 conceded by Champions Manchester United) and finished 10th, but nevertheless won both the League Cup and FA Cup in that same season. That was of course under George Graham who had been their manager for 8 years with a record of 2 League titles, 2 League Cup wins, one FA Cup win and one European Cup Winners title. Five years later they won their first Premier League title under Arsene Wenger.
      They were labelled ‘boring Arsenal’, as were Boro by most of the media under Jack Charlton.

      Also Huddersfield Town scored only 56 goals and a negative goal difference two years ago when they were promoted via the playoffs without a Town player scoring a goal in open play. They drew 1-1 with Reading courtesy of an own goal in the second leg after a goalless first leg and went through to the Final on penalties where they again failed to score but won the penalty shootout against Sheffield Wednesday.

      Plenty of food for thought there I’d venture to say!

  173. One thing I would like to add is there is no natural leader on the pitch. Since Leadbitter’s time seems to be up I would suggest this is the player we need to replace.

    The captain can be one of the most influential and important players on the pitch. Making sure the managers instructions are carried out and cajoling underperforming teammates .

    Sadly we don’t have such a player at the moment. Perhaps there’s a premiership player who fancies a swan song in his career that could be signed in January.

  174. Since I wrote my latest historical blog, there seems to be a large number of bloggers on this forum, and certainly on the Gazette forum, of wanting Pulis out. Has the sacking of Mark Hughes come at a fortuitous time for Tony Pulis and for the majority of Boro fans? Would Southampton be interested in approaching Tony Pulis who has a history of saving Premier League clubs from relegation, and would Tony Pulis be interested in becoming the manager of a club right on his doorstep? I bet Mrs Pulis would like him to be! It certainly would solve the problem of sacking him if Steve Gibson had that in mind should Boro lose on Saturday. At the moment Slavisa Jokanovic is unemployed, but would Steve Gibson have the stomach to appoint another foreign manager? I think the fans might buy into that though.

    1. I don’t want Pulis out, I want him to stop the rot and to take the game to teams at home and to get stuck into weaker teams in this league with a vengeance.

      During Gareth Southgate’s reign we used to say that his sides often looked like frightened Rabbits in headlamps when they took to the pitch. Its not that bad at the moment but they have so much defensive negativity drilled into them at Home its a very close second. Winning games requires a totally different mindset to clinging on to Premiership survival. Regardless of the quality of this squad and whilst it isn’t as good or as balanced as we would all like its a darn site better than the returns at home are currently yielding. TP has been guilty of some tactical calamities of late, far too many for an experienced Manager.

      Changing the Manager yet again isn’t ideal but if it suits all parties then so be it sums up how I’m feeling. I still think he can do the job but he needs to assess where we are and what he is doing and ask if he seriously thinks its good enough. Brentford made me question things but Preston for me was a tipping point. the less said about Villa the better. Despite it being dire, one punch from Randolph, one less fumble and Downing not blocking Hugill’s shot and a bit of grease under the North Stand cross bar and it could have been a different story albeit against the run of play but is that what we are hoping for now? Hoping for good luck and good fortune won’t get us promoted week in week out.

    2. Ken

      Whilst I’m not propounding that we implement a strategic change of manager at this point In time what I would say is that a large number of my familly and friends have stopped going to the Riverside and where we sit in the West Stand there are now large swathes of empty seats and I don’t think it’s because I’ve not used my aftershave !

      So like Redcar Red we do need things to change on the pitch and retain Tony Pulis at the moment but ….

      WE WON’T WAIT FOREVER !

      1. I agree it would be foolish to dispense with Tony Pulis’s services in mid season but there is a strong groundswell from supporters writing on the Gazette website wanting him out, but probably the same fans who wanted Karanka and Monk out too. The trouble is a lot of fans had great expectations of promotion this season, me included, probably because of the parachute payments. My own opinion is that I was surprised that Tony Pulis was appointed in the first place, and that perhaps the dismissal of Gary Monk was a tad premature.

        Boro have been in much worse situations in my lifetime as I mentioned in my revue of the 3 seasons under Raich Carter, and even worse under Malcolm Allison and Willie Maddren before liquidation. Since the move to the Riverside expectations of a prolonged stay in the Premier League were enhanced especially after the League Cup win in 2004. However, I think most fans feel that those expectations have become unfulfilled since relegation two years ago, and many thought the football was fairly gross under Karanka. Many think that Middlesbrough FC is a big club, but supporters of Sunderland, Coventry, Portsmouth et al probably think their clubs are big clubs, and certainly those of Leeds, Derby, Villa and the two Sheffield clubs certainly do. But it’s the promises made by Steve Gibson of a team with pace and his hope that Boro would smash the league last season raised expectations. I said at the time that was an ill advised statement to make, and to appoint someone like Tony Pulis knowing his reputation for unentertaining football didn’t fit well with me. But what I didn’t expect was for him to dismantle a team; surely he should have been able to build a team utilising the players he inherited. Then to compound that by purchasing midfielders who had reputations for scoring goals, and play them in such defensive positions takes the biscuit.

        I hear comments that Villa, West Brom and Derby play high risk football, and that may be true, but isn’t it worth the odd defeat than to be obsessed with not conceding goals to the detriment of not having players who can quickly get into the opponents penalty area in open play, not just from set pieces which incidentally have been very poor this season? I still believe that Boro have one of the strongest squads in this poor league, but Tony Pulis must find a way of utilising them effectively.

  176. It doesn’t appear Southampton will be ringing Steve Gibson to ask permission to speak to Tony Pulis as reports suggest they’re looking for a new manager who will lead them into a new era rather than the short-term fix of a PL escapologist.

    They’re apparently targeting former Redbull Leipzig manager Ralph Hasenhuttl, whose surname I think roughly translates as ‘rabbit keeper’, in the hope he’ll be able to pull something out of the hat in their bid to stay in the top tier.

    I haven’t seen Tony Pulis listed in any of the betting odds – though Garry Monk has surprisingly been quoted at just 10/1 by some with the usual suspects of Big Sam and David Moyes being among the so-called ‘favourites’. Second favourite is apparently former Watford manager Quique Sánchez Flores.

    So I think we can relax and not worry that our Tony is about to become a living saint – though many on Teesside may still hope he is canonized and fired from the big gun in charge of Boro…

    1. In the FA cup Boro will play
      ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….Peterborough or Bradford at home

  179. Thought.

    I raised the issue of Leadbitter’s leadership qualities in my “Finding A Voice” piece just over a year ago. It was in response to why choosing Clayton, Forshaw and De Roon in his place caused such disquiet.

    Or worse, the riotous, rampant ranting on the internet that I couldn’t stand.

    (Even when we weren’t in the bottom three, even when we played well, even when we won games, the manager could do no right. No wonder he – and I – got wound up. It felt like he was fighting a constant battle against popular opinion. But that’s for another time.)

    The point I made then was that Leadbitter was missed because his mere presence and character, regardless of ability, was irreplaceable.

    But I also felt it was quite reasonable to argue that he was not going to last forever, that he was in his thirties, and that transitioning Forshaw and De Roon into the side alongside an already experienced Clayton was the right rebuilding process for the future.

    This is reality, alas. The here and now as well as the future is vital. And the theory that AK was choosing, say, less experienced figures in the squad in an attempt to maintain total control was still running around.

    Hindsight suggests that perhaps, just perhaps, Leadbitter wasn’t all he was cracked up to be. I wouldn’t call him absolutely woeful, as one fan did, but I would now look back on him as another of those brittle and dependent Boro players who can only power a team forward when his confidence, and the team’s, is just right.

    Leads, and Ayala, reminded me of Rhys Williams in a way. (Note that Rhys played as both a defender and an attacking midfielder.) Leads had a tendency to go missing when things weren’t going for him. Ayala, meanwhile, can be fragile and erratic. Yet they can also be extremely impressive and imperious – but only on the right days with the right players.

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume AK wanted a Xavi-type from Leads, someone who would sit back and keep the midfield ticking over consistently. Xavi’s an ideal influence to follow – his success is concrete proof. Okay, he’s not as exciting to watch as thunderstrike-hitting, Roy Of The Rovers hero “Stevie G” – but who’s more likely not to go missing when the team really needs a lift?

    Eurocracy again. (Sigh.) It wins things for a reason.

  180. I don’t want Pulis out. I don’t see us getting anyone better for where we are.

    I think some of the comments may be a touch over the top. We’re not in anything like relegation form. Since the first International break we’ve taken 21 points from 14 games. Over a full season that would get you 69 points and place you on the verge of the playoffs – pretty much where most posters, myself included, predicted we’d finish at the end of the season. I would argue that after a good start we’ve gone back to more or less where we expected to be.

    I also don’t buy into this idea that Pulis doesn’t like young players. You only need to see what he did for Traore to cast doubt on that myth. We’re also seeing an increasing amount of Fry, Tavernier and Wing.

    Also, who are these journeymen I keep reading about? Presumably they don’t include many of our more experienced players like Randolph, Shotton, Flint, Clayton and Downing, who we mostly seem to quite like.

    I think that Pulis has spent a year in the job drilling the players into his shape and way of playing in the way that many other managers have done before him.

    We’re getting to the really tricky part now where he has to add goals to that and it won’t be easy. We’ve been here before.

    The real problem this season, including the opening 6 games before the first International break, is that the results have always been better than the performances. We haven’t convinced very often despite picking up the points.

    The question is will the performance levels increase making the first 20 games a very solid platform from which to progress, or are the last 14 games our true level and we’ll fizzle out to somewhere between 6th and 10th place?

    January will be important. Friend looks well past his best unfortunately and we don’t have a natural right back in the senior squad. We’re light in wide areas further forward too.

    Perhaps more importantly though is that we’re not a cohesive unit with the ball. That’s the challenge for the rest of the season. Get it right and we’ll go up. Continue as we are and it’s play-offs at best.

  181. Redcar Red

    I have been busy so haven’t had a chance to discuss Paddy.

    I tried to get some info because my view was that under TP Paddy was preferred to Gestede but the MFC site is a pain to get detail.

    The only info I can easily up with is that both signed in the same window. From memory – can be dangerously selective – Paddy was largely ignored by AK and Agnew and put in the stand alongside Traore by Monk.

    Gestede is still with us. In a season and a half Paddy made 47 appearances and in just under two seasons Gestede has made 36.

    As Paddy was out of favour, a fair proportion of those appearances must have been under TP.

    There again TP didn’t pick him when he was at Burnley, Palace and Norwich nor was selected much during the Monks reign.

    If anyone could come up with the detailed stats under TP that would be great.

    A great topic where everyone is correct depending on your viewpoint.

    Nail TP for what he does wrong.

    1. Ian

      Tranfer Markt show the overall stats for players at each club that they played for in totality rather than a breakdown per manager but for what its worth here they are:

      Gestede’s record for Boro is:
      6 goals in 47 appearances, 1 goal every 7.83 games
      4 assists
      6 Yellow cards
      1 Red card
      2,002 minutes actual game time played (a goal every 333 minutes played)

      Bamford’s record for Boro is:
      33 goals in 97 appearances, 1 goal every 2.94 games
      8 assists
      5 Yellow cards
      0 Red cards
      5,986 minutes actual game time played (a goal every 181 minutes played)

      I’ve included Assombalonga’s as well for balance/contrast:
      20 goals in 64 appearances, 1 goal every 3.20 games
      2 assists
      3 Yellow cards
      0 Red cards
      4,253 minutes actual game time played (a goal every 213 minutes played)

      Going back to Gestede/Bamford over their total careers Gestede has played 271 total games at all levels and Paddy 214 games (that stat surprised me) and that includes all appearances in all sorts of cups etc. for both players including Ligue 1 and Ligue 2 for Gestede.

      In their total Championship career Gestede has averaged a goal every 171 minutes (46 goals in 7867 minutes played). In all divisions/levels Gestede has averaged a goal every 217 played minutes.Total career minutes at all levels 13,682 and 63 assists.

      In their total Championship career Bamford has averaged a goal every 173 minutes (36 goals in 6222 minutes played). In all divisions/levels Bamford has averaged a goal every 184 played minutes. Total career minutes at all levels 13,221 and 72 assists.

      Make from that lot what you will.

      1. Redcar Red
        The stats show what we all knew and why we were disappointed Paddy left, I doubt TP was pleased either as he did mutter unkind words about his agents at the time.

        As it is he has missed most of the season having gone form the bench to the treatment table. Hope he can get some game time in though I suspect he may never fulfill his potential.

  182. I think results are better than performances a lot of the time in a promotion season. The best teams sneak victories or grind out results because they have the foundations and quality to do so.

  183. The only time performance comes into it is when a team isn’t doing well.

    Most fans will settle for 3 points regardless of how they are attained. Promotion is the prize and how it is achieved is immaterial. The bonus with TP is that if he does get the club up he is the ideal manager for the transition period from Championshio to Premiership.

    It’s pointless to have a PL season like our last one.

    1. GHW
      It would be horrible, but the game today is about money, and if we were any good with money, we could make some needed changes with it, for the good, plus it buys you time, always a valuable commodity.

  184. Some stats.

    The first team Pulis took up as a manager was Gillingham, from the old fourth tier. Their tally of 49 in 46 was actually the joint fourth lowest outside the drop zone.

    But they conceded just twenty. Less than one every two games.

    2007-08, with Stoke, was a different story. 55 conceded this time around, Not a patch on AKBoro’s 31 or the 30 of Charlton’s Champions. Or even Robbo’s two promotions, 40 and 41 respectively.

    Here’s the interesting thing – just four wins in fifteen for Pulis’ Stoke between the end of August and the middle of November. But, you know, he got there in the end. Even if his team only netted 10 in the last 12.

  186. West Brom held at home by Brentford, a game of two halves with West Brom dominating the first half but only scored with their only shot on target in the second half, 23 attempts but only 4 on target, a deserved equaliser in injury time for Brentford.

    Come on BORO.

  187. OFB, like the great Stanley Matthews, I too played until I was fifty years old, even though my last game was in China and easier than most I played. Throughout that time I was never booked or sent off, much to the amazement of many, I made a point of making out that the ref was my best pal, even if he was a pratt. I always endeavoured to play the ball and not the man, but you know what, there comes a time when you have to play hard to influence matters, so ever so slightly over the top I went at times, let’s just call it a winning mentality.

    You can sweeten pills as much as you want to make them easier to swallow, but at the end of the day you still have to take your pill sugar or not. I purposely didn’t sweeten that pill earlier on and I’ve got no intentions of throwing any sugar after it either, I stated my opinions and I stick by them.

    Again, I never whinge and I never assassinate characters, I make statements from observations, and I never stated that Gestede doesn’t try. He’s probably one of the nicest blokes that you can wish to meet, but nice means nothing in terms of ability, neither does trying. At this level he couldn’t kick his slippers off, the sad thing is he’s not alone in that category. Bauser’s brought a lot of very average baggage to the club assisted by G. Gill, both should be brought to account but never will, shame really seeing as they’re probably one of the root causes of where we currently stand.

    Let’s drop the sugar now and then and toughen up, life’s like that.

    1. I think we should all forget about Adama now, from a Boro point of view.

      We paid 7mil for him? A swop for Albert?
      AK finally managed to get a little more out of him, TP to is credit improved him to the level of Wolves invoking his buy out clause and paying 18mil (with a % to Villa)

      In the end we made a rare profit, although Albert may of got us promotion?

    2. PPIP

      well done for playing so long and I agree you have to be tough to survive

      I actually saw Matthews play once at Ayresome Park when he was 50 and then because I was young I didn’t know what the fuss was about

      The problem is we have players playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order !

      OFB

    3. PPIP

      I actually refereed my last game when I was 46 as you say experience counts for a lot.

      A lot of the older players whom I’d seen play as juniors then graduate to the Northern League were also on the downward path playing Sunday league because they loved the game

      I of course had grown old with them so I knew if they left a leg in after a tackle or a sly tug or push and we all enjoyed the game no card waving just a friendly or not so friendly word so we all knew where we stood

      In the last game I had a quiet word with the home team manager to take off a midfield player who was getting above himself

      It was in everyone’s interest for him to go off “injured” no reports by me to write no fines or suspension which suited club and player and honour satisfied!

      There are more than one way to referee and a quiet word in a player s ear usually did the trick..

      I still miss it as you probably do as well

      I see Jeff Winter at most Boro games and we reminisce about being a ref and I remind him he ran a line for me in a north riding cup final before he was “famous “!!!!

      He loves the Boro and loves this blog and yes it is read by a lot of people who are associated with Boro. In fact Steve Vickers stole my questions when he Interviewed a player the other week at a club function! He just grinned at me when I pointed it out to him a really nice guy.

      I’m not saying Pulis reads Diasboro but the club are aware of the groundswell of opinion out there …

      OFB

      1. You are never too old to enjoy life. I still play footy twice a week and in the summer we enter again to official leagues. One for over 50 year olds the other over 55. I am 57 so I can play in both teams.

        And I love following Boro. One defeat is not the end of the world. I think Cardiff was one of the worst teams performance wise last season. But I think we were not able to beat them. And see where they are now :).

        Up the Boro!

        1. Boro have ‘already come forward’ to sign Udinese’s unwanted 6’4″ striker Stipe Perica in January.

          [Fantagazzetta via Sport Witness]

          OFB

  188. I rarely blame a player for what he can and cant do.

    Lee Tomlin is a classic case in point. he was never going to be an Albert Adomah, his physique is wrong. Nor could he be a Clayton or Grant, same again.

    Lee is best playing in the opposition half, preferably in the last third, some of his link play around the box was superb but he was never going to win a foot race.

    You have to accept the attributes that players have and get a few % extra in the other areas of their game.

    That brings us to what we have at the club. Going back over several transfer windows we debated long and hard about what we needed, AK had a hissy fit when he wanted a couple of Astons and got a couple of Allegros plus a restoration project
    instead.

    The question is why have we spent so much time and money without addressing the need for pace and panache? Answers on a postcard.

    1. Ian
      Your question is one of the few that are easy to answer.
      We start with the one idea in our heads, find out if any clubs have players they wish to sell. This is the wrong method, always has been, always will be.
      We are easy marks in transfer dealings, clubs actually approach us, asking us to buy their players, which should be the greatest no no in the world.
      As a matter of fact, we are being hassled to buy a well known shop soiled “project” at the moment.
      Udinese are the club who find themselves a few million in the hole, and reckon they have every chance of offloading him on us.
      His history reads like the plot of a horror movie.
      Played for one of the BIG clubs check, moved on to Udinese, couple of games, check, loaned out, played a few games, check, loaned out to some even lower club, check, back with said Udinese, this is the second attempt to stick us with this obvious failure.
      It must be realised that youths with high promise fail, many of them, and are bought by ambitious “nearly”clubs( that would be Udinese) who find out that they really are useless, and look for a club who have been taken many times in the transfer market, (and that would be us)

  189. It goes back years. The recruitment thing, in tandem with the running of the club. And tactics.

    2008-09 vs. 2016-17.

    A pacy “project” who isn’t “ready”. (Emnes, Adama)
    A very busy but ineffective midfielder, expensive for what he is. (O’Neil, De Roon)
    A “striker” played “out of position”. (Aliadiere, Stuani)
    A local defensive leader. (Wheater, Gibson)
    An unsettled playmaker who hands in a transfer request in January. (Downing, Gaston)

  190. With time I’ve come to realise that a manager “not getting the player or players he wants” is not necessarily an acceptable reason for the team not performing.

    Sean Dyche is falling out of favour with some of the Burnley fans now. Considering their lowly position and rotten form, that’s understandable in the moment. But if you look at it more rationally…

    This is a guy who, after enduring a relegation, didn’t say that season in the Premier League counted for nothing. He and the team *learned* from it. They came back.

    And in the process, he took the team up, kept them up, sold two of the promotion heroes for a £37 million profit and led the rest of them into Europe.

    More importantly, and here is where we *can* praise Gibson and the management team of 2014-16 too, Burnley, and Boro, have taken crucial steps to make sure that they *have* a club to support, full stop. The Premier League money and parachute payments have helped see to that.

    And if the board don’t invest too heavily in the players the manager would like them to… they may well just be keeping their feet on the ground. Remembering what is possible.

    Remembering, also, that Boro nearly died in 1986 and had a reputed debt of £90 million to contend with in the late noughties. Remembering that Burnley have almost gone out of business once and almost into administration once. Remembering how many (namely, Leeds) have gone bust in chasing the dream.

    It’s never nice to not get the players you want, but if the manager isn’t making the most of his resources, he may well be perceived to be using the “lack of backing” as an excuse.

  191. I see we are rumoured to the ex Chelsea lad Stipe Perica. A 6ft 3″ 23 year old Croatian Striker. A bit of a gamble as he hasn’t really set the heather alight wherever he has been but shouldn’t cost a fortune either at I’m guessing around two million maybe two and a half million Euros. My only slight niggle is what will we actually pay Udinese for him? I can just imagine the conversation:

    Udinese “OK we are willing to consider a bid”
    Boro “all right then how about five million”
    Udinese “Oh no we couldn’t possibly sell him for that amount its ridiculous, what about three million”
    Boro “Hmmm playing hard ball huh? OK then what about seven million”
    Udinese “No honestly that’s just crazy money, like we said three million”
    Boro “Alright our final offer is ten million or we walk now and his agent can forget about any deal”
    Udinese (Stifling giggles) “OK we give in and accept your offer, you strike a hard bargain but are free to talk to the player”

    GG and NB then walk out of the Udinese Office confident of landing their man where Davide Nicola the Udinese Coach turns and whispers to his Chairman “I can’t believe it Millwall were right!”

    1. RR
      Loved it, great, but it’s true.
      What beats me is the bleedin obvious, why don’t they search for a great young player with a lower league side (yes there are such) at this point they really are little lost boys, wanting to be best buddies with the selling club, never a good idea.
      The only approach is to be brutal, they are not rich, so would like to play the market. We should stop this at once.
      Tell them that we want to sign him, and what we want to pay, and ask what their answer is? Do not accept any delay, tell them that if they do not want to sell, you are off.
      If you do this a few times, and publicise it, then you will be treated like a player, not a victim

  192. We all know we need a left back ,a wide player, and if we could a number ten with some pace and vision,
    A couple out there that might help , without breaking the bank ,and I’m thinking of Joe Bennett, Barry Bannon, both I think are better footballers and would help in attacking than current incumbent’s

  193. He’s a couple of statistical facts I’ve unearthed from my Nationwide Football Annual for what they’re worth.

    In the inaugural Premier League season of 1992/93 Arsenal scored the lowest number of goals, a mere 40 from 42 matches and finished 10th but also conceded 38 goals second only to Champions Manchester United who conceded 31. However they still won both the League Cup and FA Cup in that season. Of course that was under the managership of George Graham and during his 8 year tenure won another League Cup and also the European Cup Winners Cup but were still known as boring Arsenal, yet 5 years later under Arsene Wenger won their first Premier League title.

    Two seasons ago Huddersfield Town gained promotion despite having a negative goal difference in their league campaign, and despite no Town player scoring in the playoffs in normal play they beat Reading on penalties in the Semifinal following a 1-1 aggregate win with an own goal, and then the Final against Sheffield Wednesday on a penalty shootout following a goalless draw.

    Food for thought maybe!

  194. A little later than planned but have just posted up my article for this week as Boro will be no doubt looking to put the display against Villa behind them and bounce back. The pressure is on and it seems a long time since those carefree August summer days and a time when Boro were apparently scoring goals and shutting out the opposition. Are Tony Pulis and his team still looking good for a promotion charge or have those first few games simply masked a less than convincing trend? Here is this week’s discussion blog piece…

    https://diasboro.club/2018/12/04/2018-19-week-19-boro-put-defensive-blunders-behind-them/

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