Championship 2018-19: Week 14
Wed 31 Oct – 19:45: Boro v Crystal Palace (EFL Cup)
Sat 03 Nov – 17:30: Stoke v Boro
There was an extra spring in the steps of many arriving at the Riverside on Saturday as they anticipated that the nights would shortly be drawing in and they’d soon be able to look forward to leaving the ground in the comfort of gloom instead of evening sunshine. Although, before the clocks were once again turned back, some on Teesside were left wondering if the club had already inadvertently wound them all the way back to 2010 as the football being served up took on the rather uninspiring quality regularly served up by the Strachan era. With no Boro player now troubling the scorer in four Riverside outings, captain George Friend lead by example and showed his goal-shy team-mates just how to find the back of the net.
Although it seems there was no pleasing some moaners on the terraces as they insisted on making the minor quibble that it was at the wrong end. Friend argued after the game that Derby’s Waghorn would have put it away if he hadn’t have pounced instead – it was presumably too good a chance to turn down. Nevertheless, an over-polite Derby eventually returned the favour as their 18-year old right-back Jayden Bogle clinically slotted the ball into the net to ‘earn’ Boro a vital if undeserved point to leave the Teesside crowd once more extolling the benefits of youth – with no doubt Tony Pulis giving knowing looks in the direction of the opposition bench as he felt vindicated for sticking with men.
Frank Lampard may have shown his inexperience by selecting way too many young players that naively played without fear. Surely it’s far better to have men on the pitch who are hardened enough to understand football is a game best played without the exuberance of wanting to see joy in the eyes of those who pay to watch. Indeed, Boro saw out the game to the backing track of their manager barking “don’t foul” on loop from the dugout – thus instructing his players to resist the urge of giving away a needless free-kick on the edge of the box, which he believed they so desperately wanted to do.
Sadly the home support had to witness yet another poor display from the men in red and many have become increasingly vocal in their criticism of their manager’s tactics. In term of team selection, Tony Pulis appears to have painted himself into a corner and then taken pleasure at watching it dry as his choices put in insipid displays. The Boro manager has also recently glossed over his team’s failure to score at the Riverside by instead meticulously counting crosses as proof of their creativity. Although for the Boro faithful getting curled up in their matchday seats, counting crosses has become an alternative for counting sheep for those struggling to keep their heavier and heavier eyelids open as they drift off to the ovine entertainment on the pitch.
Tony Pulis may have become the master of the blank verse as he can see no rhyme or reason why his side are not the free-scoring outfit that they’re supposed to be. OK, the players may not exactly be looking like poetry in motion at the moment, but it turns out our artists on the pitch are up with the best with an average of 25 crosses per game. A Statistical straw to clutch at perhaps, since it fails to inform us whether they either refrain from avoiding the first defender’s thigh or carelessly escape the attentions of a Boro forward wandering lonely as a cloud into the box. Although to continue the verse of Wordsworth, any shots on goal tend to be ones “That float on high o’er vales and hills” as the Boro players later explain the adrenaline kicked in “When all at once I saw a crowd”.
The blame, according to Pulis, lies seemingly with our broad-brush strikers, who even the best police artists would struggle to produce an identikit image that few would ultimately recognise as the culprit charged with putting the ball in the back of the net. Indeed, some strikers at the club look like they were painted by Pablo Picasso himself given the random nature at which the ball bounces of their cubist heads. While ‘Rudy Gestede and his dodecahedron head’ may become a terrace chant for the geometry wing of the Red Faction, many Boro followers will be hoping the golden ration of chances to those being converted by the Vitruvian Man that is Britt Assombalonga will somehow improve and lead to a renaissance in his form. Though it’s doubtful if even the genius of da Vinci would be able to square the circle of discovering a Boro striker who will regularly find the net.
Indeed, the sketchy performances of the £15m man have often given the appearance of him having twice as many legs as he can reasonably be expected to cope with, while frequently cutting a forlorn figure as he simultaneously holds his arms out in both exasperation and apology. There are few signs that Assombalonga will return any time soon to getting those divine proportion of goals under Tony Pulis, which he had once enjoyed at Forest. It may seem simplistic, but playing to somebody’s weaknesses is probably not the optimal way to get the best out of them – though perhaps his strengths were over-stated in a bid to justify the price-tag. However, no matter which way you try to orientate the once-hailed missing piece of the promotion jigsaw, it’s clear to many observers that he doesn’t fit into the picture of what a Tony Pulis striker is expected to be – the problem for the Boro manager is that none of the other options appear to either.
Since his arrival on a season loan from the Hammers, Jordan Hugill has quickly established himself as third choice under Pulis after proving to be little more than a blunt instrument. While the Middlesbrough-born strike could have expected to be taken to the hearts of his home-town crowd, it’s likely we’ll perhaps soon be hearing the modified famous chant: “he’s one of our own, we got him on loan, thank god he’s one we don’t own” as it looks like a bullet dodged in an increasing list of misfiring strikers who’ve arrived on expensive contracts – including fellow Hammer Ashley Fletcher, who has become a rather pricey option for the development squad since his £7m move. Although, it hasn’t been limited to just strikers, with the loan of midfielder George Saville also soon to be converted in a permanent £7m deal. He’s just the latest in a series of offers made by the club that were just “too good to refuse” and have now started to look like they were possibly done in haste.
It is perhaps one of the biggest criticisms of the club that they have thrown a lot of money at players, especially strikers, most of whom haven’t convinced that it was remotely well spent. There would be little change from £50m on the eye-watering balance sheets when totting up the current fees paid for Assombalonga, Braithwaite, Gestede, Fletcher and Hugill. If having a first touch that is often your last was rated so highly then it could perhaps explain some of those inflated prices Boro paid. It should at least question the validity of believing that the market never lies – though perhaps it merely exposes the truth of buyers not really knowing what the value of something is. In fact, some may be beginning to wonder if the recruitment department would have been better off sticking five pins into a random list of League One strikers – it would have possibly provided the club with a more potent group of players, for probably a fraction of the cost and wages. Not that I would advocate that Neil Bausor rushes out to buy some pins before the January window opens – unless of course some of the donkeys planned for a clear-out are still missing their tails.
It’s possible we’re being too critical of Tony Pulis and he’s simply paying the price of raised expectations following a freak set of results in August that saw the makeshift team exceed their potential. In their Riverside bow, Boro were quick out of the blocks against current leaders Sheffield United and blew them away inside 25 minutes, thanks to two well-delivered Lewis Wing corners that were converted – although for the purposes of balance, others from him were reported as not being so well executed. In the next home game, against a then struggling Birmingham side, Tony Pulis’s team were less impressive with a 1-0 victory that saw only 2 shots on target – in fact despite the Blues being reduced to ten men for the last ten minutes, Boro were hanging on to the three points and were glad to hear the final whistle.
After Tony Pulis’s side continued their winning run with a textbook away victory at Bristol City, where although the Robins had enjoyed twice as much possession, Boro defended well and were two-up after half-an-hour thanks to a Braithwaite spot-kick and a Assombalonga headed goal – the game was then ‘managed’ and despite a few scares held their early lead. The following home game against West Brom saw that last-gasp hand-controlled winner by Ayala – with Boro having only 38 per cent possession and squandering a number of chances in similar fashion to what we’ve seen more recently.
Sometimes the result papers over the cracks and both of those single-goal home victories could easily have been the usual blanks. If we add to that Boro were woeful for 70 minutes in their opener at Millwall, it may in fact be a little rose-tinted to start thinking Boro’s form has appreciably dipped since August. In truth, the main difference is perhaps Boro lost their intensity and began to start games more slowly. The arrival of new players didn’t add much to the party as only Besic has consistently broke into the starting eleven – though it could be argued he’s not exactly a ‘new’ player given he was here last season. The main complaint is that the promising performances by academy graduates in August have not been built on – even Dael Fry saw his starts limited as Tony Pulis reverted to a conventional back four to accommodate Martin Braithwaite.
The uninspiring shades of magnolia that are the summer recruits of Saville, McQueen, McNair, Batth, and Hugill have all been left to blend together inoffensively on the bench, which has left no room for the up-and-coming Wing, Tavernier or Chapman to further impress. It’s well documented that most of those signings were probably not the manager’s first choices and the fact is that they have in the space of a few weeks become little more than bed-blockers to exciting young talent developed at the club. Whilst it’s perfectly reasonable to bring in squad players who can cover for injury and suspensions, having low-impact squad players on your bench essential means the manager has little hope of giving the opposition anything to worry about or indeed lift an increasingly deflated crowd.
Many will be hoping the January window will see better quality players arrive and some much needed pace, guile and clinical finishing – though all of those previously mentioned bench-warmers are either permanent or season-long loans. Will that mean moving on players who are currently getting picked for the first team instead? Pulis doesn’t like a big squad, he’s overlooked Wing, Tavernier and others but hasn’t seemingly placed much faith in most of the summer recruits. Maybe he feels his core group is good enough but with a dysfunctional sharp end and essentially make-shift wing-backs it’s not quite the team in his image he would want.
Like many in the game, Tony Pulis is perhaps finding that building a solid team from the back is the less difficult part. We discovered under previous Boro managers that simply trying to bolt on better attacking players is not as easy as it may sound. The way the team functions as a unit often determines how it operates in both defence and attack – if you lean too much in one direction it will ultimately adversely effect the other. At present, the balance doesn’t seem to be right and it may well be it’s not at the points where the team visibly appears to fail as to where the problems may lie.
For all the neat play and decent performances from players such as Downing, Howson, Besic or Clayton – none of them have got much in the way of goals or assists. The same goes for Friend and Shotton – are they effective as wing-backs if they don’t provide assists? It may even be that their manager has them on a tight leash that prevents them from becoming less predictable to the opposition. Derby’s youngsters gave us a lesson on free-flowing attacking football – though it apparently comes at the expense of being less solid at the back. The question for Boro is whether it’s time to take more risks in a bid to be more potent – though I feel we’ve been here before and that was why Steve Gibson brought in Garry Monk and let him have free reign of his cheque book. I suspect we will be sticking to the world according to Tony Pulis for now and probably the foreseeable future.
This week sees games against two of Tony Pulis’s former clubs, with Crystal Palace first up in the Caraboa Cup on Wednesday. The Boro manager would probably ‘love it’ if his side knocked the Eagles out of the competition but he’s unlikely to go all Kevin Keegan on us at the pre-match press conference since it’s still likely to be reserve-style fixture between teams resting their key players for the league games at the weekend. Post-Pulis, Palace are still struggling to score goals in the Premier League and if those on Teesside were feeling underwhelmed at not seeing the net bulge at the Riverside, then spare a thought for our visitors, who only witnessed their first goal at home this season after they converted a penalty against Arsenal at the weekend. They’ve managed just 7 goals all season despite having the talents of Wilfried Zaha and Andros Townsend at their disposal – though a certain Jason Puncheon came on as sub and he may well get a start at the Riverside to receive the warm welcome he declined in the loan window.
It’s widely expected that we’ll see the usual ten or eleven changes, with all those on the fringes of the First XI getting the benefit of a start. They will be perhaps joined by club captain Grant Leadbitter, Ashley Fletcher, plus some of the academy boys such as Lewis Wing and Marcus Tavernier. A place in the quarter-finals is up for grabs for the winners, so we may see stronger benches than usual – many Boro followers will be looking to see if any youngsters impress enough to be seen again in a Boro shirt this season.
The trip to Stoke on Saturday has been chosen as the early-evening televised game and it’s hard to see why other than the Pulis factor – though not to be confused with the X-Factor later in the evening where struggling performers regurgitate their usual hard-luck stories in a bid for public sympathy. Stoke have been defensively quite tight in recent weeks and have only conceded twice in their last four games, which included the three in-form sides of Sheffield United, Norwich and Birmingham. After an indifferent start to the season that saw the Potters win just once in their opening seven fixtures, Gary Rowett’s side have slowly moved up the table and are now just five points outside the play-offs.
Tony Pulis will most likely get a good reception from the home crowd, which will make a nice change given the boos he’s been getting used to lately. It’s a game he will not want to lose and if both sides keep it tight then it’s got all the makings of another TV classic nil-nil encounter of the strictly not watching variety. With Leeds not playing until Sunday and Sheffield United away at Forest, then I am as ever contractually obliged to say Boro can go top if they win!
Another masterpiece moving from poetry to art. However maybe you might have used the remainder of Wordsworth’s poem when we played the two tones of yellow and green daffodils when we played Norwich. I was half expecting you to also move on from art to music, though I can’t imagine how. As for the matches against two of his former clubs I’m sure Tony Pulis will want to beat both of them. As you say against Palace he may well select a bench of first team players just in case our youngsters might have a lead to defend, although I can’t see beyond two defeats looming.
Here’s a thought though, what if he plays his strongest team against Palace who I’m fairly sure won’t play many if any of the players who played against Arsenal yesterday. We might even win, but that would give Pulis another excuse of having had to play 3 matches in a week if we lose at Stoke. Therefore I can’t see him doing that, so it’s up to the youngsters to make a name for themselves.
Thanks Ken, though I’m steering clear of music this week after discovering when attempting to help my 8-year for a music test that they actually have the note ‘H’ instead of B, the note B in Germany is actually B flat – it’s complicated but lost the argument with Mrs Werder when telling my son there’s no such note as H 🙂
I think Palace will go with their reserves as no lower-to-middle PL side will probably fancy qualifying for the Europa league after seeing Burnley struggling to cope with the extra fixtures.
Progressing to the QF generates more money for the club and gives the supporters a lift. I expect quite a strong team to be out out.
Out of curiosity I looked up to see what the Carabou Cup generates financially and found this:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/carabao-cup-prize-money-final-11902122
If true it shocked me!
I suspect we’ll see a midfield of Leadbitter, McNair and Wing, with a defence of McQueen, Batth, Fry and Mahmutovic with a front three of Tavernier Hugill and Saville – though Pulis may opt to throw in a first-teamers like Braithwaite if he’s keen on progressing.
Mahmutovic is out on loan to Yeovil. TP as we all know likes to work with a small squad. Or to be more precise, a small squad of identikit central midfielders, tall centre backs and innocuous centre forwards.
I saw Mahmutovic play the last Carabao Cup game and he’s definitely one to watch.
Oh hang on we can’t because he’s out on loan at Yeovil!
OFB
Nice one, Werder.
As posted towards the end of the last thread, I agree with you on those first five games. Results were much better than what followed but I’m not sure performances were massively better.
Thanks Andy, I’ve actually just read your post from earlier this afternoon and it’s pretty much making the same points as the section I wrote this morning – spooky but then again I often find myself coming to same conclusions that you do. Despite the recent dip in form, I’d always had in the back of my mind the idea that Boro had earlier in the season not played particularly well.
So I re-read RR’s match reports from August to get a refresh on how we played – other than that 25 minute spell against Sheffield United, the other two home games weren’t much different from what has appeared in recent weeks. I think the main difference was that Boro had started games with much more intensity and generally scored early before tailing off. With regard to Braithwaite, I’m not sure he was that much better as of his three goals, one was a penalty and another a tap-in during a corner melee – perhaps he just looked sharper and more keen.
Can’t believe that when the scheduling brains at Sky looked at the footballing calendar Stoke v. Boro stuck out as a potential great game. Its got 0-0 written all over it with one deflected shot off the corner flag on target.
I’m certainly of the view 0-0 is most likely – the scheduling of that game has also caught Mrs Werder out as she’s organised another dinner party for Saturday evening without consulting me so I’ll miss out – though she may be doing me a favour 🙂
Interesting that all on here now unanimous that we have a team devoid of entertainment.
Some comment on the efforts of TP to improve the team.
I refer my honourable friend to the famous quote by Alan Durban.
I just found it…
“If you want entertainment go and watch a bunch of clowns.”
Though you could counter that with a quote from elsewhere…
“Football is about emotion… If you want to be sensible, give up football and take up competitive accountancy.”
As Steven Sondheim wrote
Isn’t it rich?
Are we a pair?
Me here at last on the ground,
You in mid-air,
Where are the clowns?
Isn’t it bliss?
Don’t you approve?
One who keeps tearing around,
One who can’t move,
Where are the clowns?
There ought to be clowns?
Just when I’d stopped opening doors,
Finally knowing the one that I wanted was yours
Making my entrance again with my usual flair
Sure of my lines
No one is there
Don’t you love farce?
My fault, I fear
I thought that you’d want what I want
Sorry, my dear!
But where are the clowns
Send in the clowns
Don’t bother, they’re here
Isn’t it rich?
Isn’t it queer?
Losing my timing this late in my career
But where are the clowns?
There ought to be clowns
Well, maybe next year
OFB
Steven Sondheim, absolute class and responsible for some of the most outstanding theatrical moments over the last 60 years. Here’s hoping we experience an outstanding theatrical moment on Wednesday from the second string, leading to a well deserved encore on Saturday.
Loved the article Werder.
Second in the league and we’re all 😤 hacked off 😤
Great review though Werder
So we do have some bright spots on view at least
OFB
Thanks OFB, we may have to temper our mood if we go top and get into the Caraboa QF’s 🙂
Stoke v Boro, what a tasty contest.
At least the pitch will be better than the one at Wembley, you cant help but think the FA should go back to the owner of Fulham and beg him to buy the albatross. Three NFL games and it looks a mess., To be fair it seems to be playing ok.
Werdermouth
Great leader. By the way, Mahmutovic is on loan to Yeovil.
UTB
Thanks Selwynoz – I must have missed that loan deal, though it’s hard to notice when the academy boys disappear – especially from my article 🙂
The last time Newcastle United failed to win any of their opening ten league matches, Queen Victoria was on the throne, the Marquess of Salisbury was Prime Minister and Britain was about to throw itself headfirst into the Twentieth Century. According to The Echo.
And we joint second after our wobble!
Just saying, like. Up the Boro!
Always loved the notion that history keeps on repeating itself 😉
Lovely piece Werder. I loved the allusion to magnolia, perhaps we should play in beige.
UTB,
John
Thanks John, you should contact the club about having a limited edition beige shirt – though it may be very limited in terms of sales for those wanting to identify themselves with Boro…
Werder,
You could have a red hoop on the shirt, perhaps Hi-viz reflective so the midfield can find our forwards with those scalpel precise, slide-rule accurate defence splitting passes. On second thoughts perhaps not. The passes that is.
UTB,
John
An artfully crafted piece of prose Werder and another great read thank you.
Can’t see past a Win for the eagles tomorrow night and 0-0 against Stoke will be a good result as I can’t see us scoring! 🙁
Thanks KP, Could also be a 0-0 on Wednesday and penalties given Palace can’t score either.
Interesting speculative article on the Transfer Tavern website recommending Boro should look to loan Ademola Lookman from Everton in January. Fast and pacy wideman come striker with good strength, it looked an interesting shout until I read that he was 5ft 9″ and only 21.
RR
He clearly needs to go out on loan to a Div 1 or 2 side to learn his craft and to grow😉!
RR,
In the words(of) AV, “bugger”.
UTB,
John
We should find and sign our own players, it is noticeable that Everton, in their vain hope of joining the elite clubs ( doomed, of course) are trying to be dealers in players, picking them up for washers and then trying to either loan or sell them on for a profit ( and repeat ad nauseum).
If we approach them, they are Mr. Awkward, will keep us dangling, then sell to another club, plus, of course, a lot of lip.
So keep well clear.
The same with the big clubs, an awful lot of their youngsters cannot get onto the pitch, but they clutter up our training ground, whilst they loan very good young players to their chosen friends. Hhhm!
Just as last season, the championship is being decided by very big clubs selecting who to loan a couple of young guns to. This should be stopped in it’s tracks.
For one moment there I read “Transfer Tavernier site” and was very alarmed.
As it is so long since we scored at home maybe a Sepia kit might be in order.
Good read, Werder.
I think we need more first team players in the Cup this time as some of the youngters are away on loan.
I always like a good cup run. So I will go for a freak 2-1 win. Then even RR will get exited about Wembley! You never know.
We are due to score a goal from a set piece now. Flint missed one on Saturday, So perhaps on Wednesday. Or Fry?
Up the Boro!
The usual great article Weder which had me chuckling away in amongst the serious points.
So we are playing on Halloween and my guess is that it will be a scary game with TP bringing some skeletons out of the closet and maybe the living dead too!
I fear that Palace will be too strong for us, although the kids, if TP decides to play them, could surprise us all and ghost 👻 around the defence to score some ghouls!!
I will be there so am hoping for an entertaining game and to be shocked with a Boro 2 0 win.
On the subject of entertainment v pragmatism victories, then at the moment we are not getting either which is where the problem is. I will take a boring win or an entertaining defeat where we have given our all and outplayed by a better side but a boring defeat where there is no commitment, I will go a watch the 🤡!!
Thanks BBD, hopefully Tony Pulis treats us to some goals as the youngsters prove to be the trick…
There could be something about this continuous interruptions of league games with these international breaks,
Some teams are effected differently, it could stall a good run,and for some teams give them a chance to reset, QPR , Norwich, others have been helped by them,
For Boro they haven’t helped, now its not an excuse, but for me the real season hasn’t got going even now, I understand there is another one coming up, this is garbage for fans, who now have to travel midweek ,to all parts of the country, and usually the gates are down.
These TV games hurt in ways too , teams playing us raise their game anyway ,being on national TV, makes it more, now we should be able to cope,
But as we have found, too many of ours don’t raise there’s.
Lookman would be a fantastic signing, but he wouldn’t come here,
The entire system of loans should be outlawed.
It is designed to let the super rich hog all the young players, without paying colossal fees for them.
First they rampage amongst the very young, grabbing the best, then they find that they cannot give them a game, but they want to keep them, so they loan them, to anyone and anywhere. Then they find that they can charge a couple of million for a season.
Then these loan players decide who gets promoted to the Prem.
Fulham are in the Prem. Curtesy of a couple of loaners from London clubs. There was no chance of them ever signing for Fulham ( too good)
So Fulham collect 100 million plus. Cannot hack the Prem. But will come back down, with their wad of cash, plus another couple of ( very good) loaners from London clubs, and so the system is further corrupted.
Some fool was saying in the national press, that it was harder for the big London clubs,
with all these London clubs in the Prem. A lot of derby matches you know.
No mention of having 6-7 less away matches.
Less stress on the players, less expense for their owners, in fact quite an advantage.
Two nil to us, Clayton to score both. If he’s dropped, he’ll probably just get the one. He’s certainly got more chance than the rest of them, even from his living room.
I see that Football Fancast recommends that we try and sign the Frenchman Neal Maupay from Brentford in January!
I doubt very much that Brentford would sell unless their post Smith decline continues unabated and at 5ft 7″ he is a striker in a similar mould to Britt in that he likes to run onto balls rather than have them hoofed up to aerially dual with two 6ft plus CB’s. Who would feed positive thinking through balls to him from midfield at Boro apart from he who keeps getting mentioned in which case it would make more sense to try that technique now with Britt surely albeit on a Wing and a Prayer.
Werder, I do not know where you get the ideas and inspiration for the continuous excellent Headliners. Well done once more.
If only the Boro could find the same inspiration and commitment.
Tomorrow, Eagles take the Rabbits under the (flood)lights
Thanks Pedro, hopefully Tony Pulis will be a happy bunny come the final whistle as ultimately the buck stops with him…
The selection will be the most interesting pre match feature.
Does TP want to concentrate on the league so send out the first teamers secure in the knowledge they cant score.
Does he go for it with a younger squad, give players a chance with a get out of jail card that he cant play them midweek and Saturday.
Or am I getting too clever?
Personally, my view is give the fringe players a game, my hope is that those who do well would be given a chance. One of the sayings on here is that it is the hope that kills you.
If, as I expect, he uses tonight’s game to give his fringe players some pitch time, then it may show us that some of them are needed in the starting XI or indeed some of them are just not up to standard. Much will depend on what kind of team Palace put out. It could be a disjointed affair where perhaps the game would need an early goal – possibly another o.g.
I see The Brewers did a number on The Tricky Trees in the Carabao Cup earlier this evening (3-2), much as they did on Boro in the FA Cup under Mogga a few years back (2-1)…
I see we are on the telly in the middle east – 11pm kick off – will try and watch it – at least it may help me sleep if it is anthing like the last one.
Today’s actually the first year of a new public holiday in northern Germany – at first I thought it was odd to get the day off to celebrate Halloween but it’s apparently been introduced to commemorate ‘Reformation Day’, which as you may know occurred on 31st October 1517 when Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-five Theses on the door of the All Saints’ Church in Wittenberg that ultimately was the start of the protestant movement.
Luther’s main gripe was the practise of the Roman Catholic clergy selling ‘indulgences’, which was a way to reduce the amount of time the faithful had to spend in Purgatory for their sins. Just how long those on Teesside will need to spend in Purgatory for their sins this season may depend on whether Tony Pulis nails his team selection in the coming week.
The Boro faithful will also no doubt hope they are indulged with another appearance of Lewis Wing in order to reform their goal-shy team – though I’d expect to hear protestations from the terraces if he’s once more overlooked as they demand Tony Pulis pays the price for his sins.
Will there be a schism between manager and supporters? Or will the fans faith in Tony Pulis be restored by a return to winning ways?
I’ll go for a repentant 1-0 victory and hopefully progress though to the quarter-finals with a Grant Leadbitter penalty.
Back in 2003 when they were little I once explained Hell to my kids as having a Newcastle season Ticket and Purgatory as having a Sunderland season Ticket.
“So whats Limbo then Dad?” asked the oldest, “Limbo is having a Boro Season Ticket and waiting for us to win a Cup!”
Though to be fair, Boro fans are used to seeing the bar set low…
Love it Werder,
At least 4 kids in tonight so I am going for
Boro babes2 Waterford Crystal 0
Thanks Borobrie, the team chosen is going to be interesting and whether the youngsters live up to expectations too.
Or will the squad need to go on a diet of worms
…
To quote another Martin Luther, “ I have a dream……”. Or is it Nightmare at The Riverside part (insert number of choice!)
If the Boro have a few million quid still floating around in their coffers, I have the remnants of an old Wilf Mannion shirt I am willing to flog them. And the remains of of a Juninho half-eaten parmo.
I line up these sacramental objects in front of the television set before every Boro game.
It is clearly working.
There is no more rational explanation for a run of luck, unprecedented in our history, in being presented in such quick succession with gift-wrapped goals by Bristol City, Birmingham, Ipswich, Sheffield Wed, and now Derby. Without these examples of goal-manna from Heaven where would we be?
Jarsue, with great prescience, correctly forecast that Boro would score against Derby via an own goal. If the Boro stick with my indulgences there will be plenty more where that came from. My sacred objects are certainly proving more effective than the combined efforts of Gestede, Hugill, Fletcher, and, indeed, all of our other outfield players.
As a gesture of good faith to Mr Gibson, a lock of Graeme Souness’s pubic hair is currently in the post.
Praise be Len for such a noble gesture – though with such an amazing array of precious artefacts it’s hard to see why they’ve not as yet worked. Perhaps Boro still haven’t recovered from the shrouded mystery around digging up St Ledger of Deepdale and burying the remains of his permanent contract under the penalty spot.
Len
A great gesture by you to give Gibbo the pubic hair from Souness
Although to be fair quite a lot of players have currently got Gibbo by the short and curlies !
OFB
Len,
The lock of Graeme’s pubic hair should clinch it. The luck I mean not anything else.
I have no doubt that some of our future opponents will be working hard on patterns of play, set pieces and formations where own goals are not given away. This in the sure and certain knowledge that Boro will score at the wrong end with a slide rule precise shinned clearance or an astutely placed backside.
Thank goodness Boro aren’t a snooker team or we would definitely struggle to find the small nets because we can’t find one very big one.
UTB,
John
I resisted comments about balls, red or coloured. This is a family blog.
Len
How on earth did you get your hands on a half-eaten Juninho Parmo?
It was from TLF and not Mido!!
RR
A piece of cake compared with my negotiations with Graeme.
To avoid any ambiguity I should stress that my acquisition of the Souness relic did not involve a Brazilian.
As with all holy relics and great works of art, provenance is key and I can’t help but wonder at the evidence that must accompany your eclectic collection of priceless artefacts and the lock of Graeme Souness’ less than public hair.
Everything forecast on this blog is coming true, sadly, we said that if he played the better players in the cup games, then he, by definition, could bench them in the more important games.
Now is the crunch time, morally he must play them tonight, we deserve some entertainment.
But he should be saving them for the weekend, because they are needed.
I think it is something about being hoist by a petard or something similar.
There was a third Luther.
Many years ago in a history lesson we were asked who Luther was. The answer fired back was Superman’s arch enemy.
Much as I would like to take the accolade for the response I believe it was a lad called Alan Salter.
If any of the Eagles wear green boots will Kryptonite be involved in their manufacture to weaken our Supermen?
Of course Superman s name wasn’t clark Kent as his real krypton name was Kal El.
If we get beat tonight will we be saying
Fu kal el?
OFB
Werder, you a mine of information. Do you by any chance read Encyclopaedias instead of novels? Of course with the Boro they would have to be Fiction. Who knows the truth where MFC are concerned.
Thanks, but it’s been almost impossible to read a novel since my 8-year old came along – especially on holiday!
As Allan in Bahrain has said the match tonight is being shown in the ME. It is also (according to LiveOnSat) being shown through ViaPlay (Finland) for Jarrko, and one in Germany and USA. Possibility of a stream somewhere??
I just checked my Viasat channels on TV and they are just showing Chelsea-Derby (with humble Lambard) and West Ham vs. Spurs. I have to pay separately to see the match -on Viapaly: 30 eur for a month or 23 eur for 24 h.
I think I will skip the match. Or find a free stream….
Up the Boro!
I must admit I thought the match was one of the Sky games due to it’s 8pm kick off. For some reason they are showing Chelsea v Derby.
Anything to do with entertainment I wonder?
Watching Boro on TV is similar to listening to Leonard Cohen these days!
And I am heading North later on this afternoon to be “ entertained”, at least only 15 quid for the ticket which helps soften the blow.
I am travelling in hope that TP plays the kids and they run rings round Palace!
I thought it was Frank Lampard’s DC that is showing tonight, not Derby
If the kids are chosen and serve up a treat tonight, I wonder how TP will try to trick us they are not ready to feature in league fixtures.
Whatever the team selection, I hope the game is played in good spirit and ends with another monster penalty shoot out so at least we get to see plenty of ghouls at the Riverside.
Powmill, I hope that that comment doesn’t come back to haunt you later on!
Batty Boro 2 Palace Pumpkins 1
I reckon Palace will field a strong team and if Boro field something close to the first team squad here’s the prediction:
Boro 1 – 3 Palace
with some of the kids in:
Boro 2 – 2 Palace
and a monster penalty shoot-out as requested by Powmill.
UTB,
John
MFC winners tonight only marred by injury to McQueen and verbal exchange with Gestede and Pulis second half. Not the done thing Rudy to run straight off the pitch at the final whistle and not acknowledging the fans. OFB
Quality read as ever Werder. You sure you’re not Harry Pearson?
No idea who TP will select but whoever it is they had better put in a shift with the addition of a bit of attacking entertaining football. Unlike the poor fare we’ve been served up for most of the last 6 weeks or so.
There is a surprising amount of positivity around the blog which is, well, surprising. Palace appear to be a bit like the Boro in as much as they can’t find the back of the net much either in the league. So it’s nailed on to be an end to end 7 goal thriller. Or not!
I like the humorous posts showing that Teesside trait of a bit of gallows humour which I think we all need at the moment the way we’re performing. Bit close to the knuckle Bob but certainly made me chuckle😀
Allan
Thanks for the telly heads up though with an 11pm kick off and an early start tomorrow I doubt I’ll see the final whistle. Especially if it’s not a 7 goal thriller. I might try and get my head down for a little pre match snooze and power through.
Thanks FAA, but we established a few weeks ago I only play football like Harry and possibly write like Nigel instead 🙂
I read earlier that tickets were still available for tonight’s match.
Never mind tickets: are there any strikers available for tonight’s match
I am hoping TP follows the same path as in previous rounds and gives the not-even-the-bench warmers a chance to shine tonight. If not I would go along with Jarsue and see us bowing out, but without scoring. If he does, then I hope for an entertaining 3-2 win for Boro, but will happily accept winning out on penalties if it comes to it.
(PS thanks for fixing my earlier typo Werder, and I enjoyed the big read too)
It sounds like Roy Hodgson is up for tonight’s game (not) after he declared “The League Cup is not a priority this season and Palace could have done without a long trip to Middlesbrough”
A cold night at Middlesbrough….
If we win tonight we will be in the last eight draw which includes the might of Burton Albion. I would hope TP sends out a team set up and determined to win. Though he’ll probably play ALL the kids and be happy to concentrate on not smashing the league.
Not quite the second string line-up being touted with Ayala and Friend forming a back three with Batth – Braithwaite also starting along with Hugill with Wing and Tav the only academy players selected.
Team: Konstantopoulos, McNair, Ayala. Batth, Friend, McQueen, Leadbitter, Wing, Tavernier, Braithwaite, Hugill
Youth has instead been mainly reserved for the bench with subs from: Lonergan, Wood, Stubbs, Saville, Chapman, Fletcher, Gestede
It could be a 5-2-3 formation or possibly 5-3-2 if Tav plays in midfield
I think that’s a reasonably intelligent selection. Hope he has Fletcher and Fry and Chapman on the bench. Feeling positive (-ish)
Just seen the subs in your post Werder… Saville is so good he’s in there twice 😉
I had already fixed it and edited it after typing him twice instead of Fletcher – just refresh the browser
werdermouth wrote:
“Youth has instead been mainly reserved for the bench with subs from: Lonergan, Wood, Stubbs, Saville, Chapman, Saville, Gestede ”
Who”s the other Saville on the books, werder? 😉
With gallows humour being very appropriate for halloween, I’m sat at work next to a Palace-supporting colleague and we’re laughing at our respective manager’s determination not to win a game with a quarter final at stake.
I like that side.
Come on Boro.
Happy Halloween everyone. Here in Oz all four games are being shown by Bein but they only have three channels and so the Boro game is being shown in full on delay from 10am local (11pm UK). I’m going out for a long walk and will watch it when I get back.
I thought that Fletcher would get a go from the start tonight. It will be interesting to see if we get a handle on midfield with this team.
UTB
If anyone needs an online link then this is working for me (close any pop-up tabs that open)
Thanks Werder link working brill
Plus a great goal by WING…!!!
Bad injury for Sam McQueen. Sounds bad, even from the commentary it seems like a cruciate. In the old Rockcliffe days, like a couple of years, it would be two aspirin and run it off.
Good ending to the first half and oh dear WIng scored a cracker. TP forgot to tell him the plot.
Looking forward to the second half. Halloween nearly over and not the horror show I as expecting..|!!!
Come on Boro
Lewis Wing,
When he gets some experience, loans for a couple of years, gets a bit of weight on, becomes more predictable and in his thirties he’ll be force to be reckoned with.
Get another three and he might remember your name.
Well done.
UTB,
John
Boro started well and were on top for the first ten minutes but then Palace got into the game – no real goal threats from either side up until that bad injury for McQueen. I thought Tavernier was the pick of the first half but that Lewis Wing strike was excellent. Hugill has looked terrible and I’d give him the hook at H-T, Braithwaite has been full of energy but no poise on the ball and Leadbitter has looked a little off the pace. Friend is having a better game and Ayala and Batth have looked solid – not sure about McNair though as he’s been caught out a few times. Still Boro have been the better side and Palace look nothing special and certainly not PL standard.
Go with that Werder. In fact I am starting to wonder about McNair myself. His only defence at the moment is that he is playing out of position.
Well that has been a bit more entertaining than we have seen of late. More intensity from the “young uns” and some good passes. MB looks to be up for it also, lets hope he continues to the end of the match.
I really feel for Hugill, but he looks so much out of his depth. Should of done better with his chances. Oh nearly forgot to say….was that a good forward pass and goal?
Great first half by Boro. Unlucky to be “just 1-0 Up at half time.
One of the kids on the bench again – Lonergan there for Dimi. I am happy to see Dimi again.
Let’s keep a clean sheet. I can do without a penalty shoot out this time. Come on Boro!
Up the Boro!
Well earned win with some decent displays. I thought George did well along with Ayala and Batth. Wing worked tirelessly as did Tav, who I thought did really well in the closing 10 minutes or so drawing fouls to break up the game.
Gestede looked as though he was still carrying the hamstring he had at the end of the Derby game. Did he win a header? Anyway into the hat for the next round, only drawback was the injury to McQeen. Looked as though it could be bad.
Thanks for the link Werder, worked well in Scotland. That was a very different performance than in the league of late. Cracking goal from Wing and good to see the team chasing down and moving the ball quickly. Much better. Let’s hope TP takes note and gives these guys a chance on Saturday.
Well done Boro, they got their lead and defended well and didn’t give Palace any real chances to score. Some players looked tired towards the end as Boro went into game management mode. In truth Palace were poor and on tonight’s showing glad we avoided signing Jason Puncheon as he offered nothing to scare defences. Though Wing and Tavernier put forward a good case to be included on the bench at least – Wing showed he’s got energy, an eye for a pass and of course the ability to score. Is that enough? normally I’d say yes!
Nah Werder, did not get the necessary hatrick. Plus because he worked so hard, TP will say he needs a rest.
1-0 to the Boro (Wing 45+3, assisted by Tavernier). 🙂 Well done, the kids! ^big grin^ *hat*
Would you Adam & Eve it? Quarter-final: home to Burton Albion…
Wow! I’d forgot about the draw – now that’s what I call a result! Should we start dreaming of Wembley?
A gourd night for Boro as our Wing man scores a spooktacular ghoul witch exorcises the Eagles’ threat and sends the fangs batty.
Well that’s palace 💀 dead and buried!
OFB
While we briefly dream of Wembley, the question is who do we want in the semi’s – Man City, Chelsea or Spurs….
We’ve a fangtastic chance for the semis.
Maybe there an As-zombie-longa hat-trick (or treat) will get our blood pumpkin.
So that Tony Ghoul-is can lead us out at Wembley…
I would much rather see tonight’s team take the field at Stoke than the one that has served up the dross we have endured over recent weeks. But unfortunately I fully expect Pulis to revert to the usual suspects.
Congratulations to TP for masterminding our path to the QF’s with a winnable game against Burton.
And huge congratulations to Tav and especially to Wing for their contribution, and to the team for holding out. Well done to the 11,000 or so hardy souls for braving the elements, and thanks to Werder for the link.
Swap out Dimi and Leads for Randolph and Clayts and you have the team I’d start against Stoke.
On reflection I thought it was an excellent performance, at times Palace showed some quality by playing the ball around the field but we stuck to the task.
Unlike championship games were you have little room and time to be on the front foot,at times we did tonight.
I wish people would get off Hugills back, he did everything asked of him tonight, he engaged their central defenders, and helped his team high up,I gave him an eight.
A good result and draw for the next round, funny old game isn’t it?
I partially agree GT. Hugill tries like crazy and has a real ability to hold off defenders and stop them getting the high ball. This gives us a way to re-establish control further up the pitch. However, having said that, it’s hard to see what else he is doing at the moment. He should have scored from the cross and should have hit the target when put through on goal. Maybe he just neeeds one to go in. Also, he’s doing just as much as Assombalonga in recent games. I’d probably leave him up front for Stoke.
Tav and Wing really looked to be quality players. Batth showed exactly why we signed him. He and Ayala make a powerful combination and he and Flint will be a formidable pairing against Stoke. Fry on the bn h in case we need a third centre back.
It would be logical to replace Leadbitter with Clayton and argue as to which three play out of Wing, Tav, Saville, Downing and Besic.
All in all, it was a good quality composed performance and we deserved the win.
UTB
Haven’t watched the game yet but on the BBC live feed I was on , they gave a big wrap to Hugill when he was replaced.
TP will not play the kids on Saturday, poor youngsters need a rest. Oh to be young and have that energy and vitality again.
Play em by God Sir, Play em !
I have to say I’m really enjoying this season, and have to concur with Frank Lampard when he said “I always thought it was a great league and now I know it is. It’s competitive, entertaining and a pleasure to be part of”. It’s such a tight and competitive league, with some high quality football being played but no-one with enough resources to dominate. Of course I’d love to get promoted to Division 1 but that would take us into a much less interesting league. For the time being something to enjoy. We’ve had a great season so far and are well in the promotion mix, and it’s good to see a cup run as well. After a few stale years I’m enjoying being a Boro fan again…I keep showing my colleagues at work the league table!
I see we have a home draw with Burton Albion to look forward to. Great chance to reach the SF, but I’ll not be thinking who then as BA are a typical Boro banana skin in waiting.
As for the weekend, I’ve woken up this All Saints’ morn hoping we start on a Wing and a prayer against Stoke on Saturday, with patron saint St. Martin de Porres inspiring Tavernier from the bench to turn things around if we need it later on.
Well Redcar Red was chilling at the Riverside among the Carabao skulls as the cup progress of Premier League Palace went bump in the night after a screamer from Lewis Wing buried Roy Hodgson’s side. Anyway, here’s his match report as Boro supporters are still calming down after seeing that apparition that is paranormally known in mythology as a goal…
https://diasboro.club/2018/11/01/cup-boro-1-0-palace/
A great performance in the first half, not bad in the second and we deserved to get through.
A winnable draw – won’t be easy as ever – and then we might be in the Semis. Where are the semi finals played – Wembley? Possible semifinalists could be Boro. Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea, but let’s hope there are more team of our status, too.
Full draw:
Arsenal v Tottenham
Leicester/Southampton v Manchester City/Fulham
Middlesbrough v Burton
Chelsea v Bournemouth
So Tony will have a selection dilemma next. But for a bit different reason than we thought. A few players were sent home yesterday because of illness. So he needs to see who is fit rather than prepare normally for the tie at Stoke on Saturday. But we have a good enough squad – the problem being time and knowing who is OK to start.
Let’s keep dreaming. That is why we are fans. Up the Boro!
Jarkko
The semifinals are played over two legs home and away.
Thanks, Ken. I remembered so, too but was wondering that in the FA Cup they are played at Wembley nowadays. Also no extra time in the League Cup so I thought they do not want to fix two matches (home and away) to the calenders of the big five.
Up the Boro!
Super strike from Lewis Wing, and Tony Pulis after the match quoted as saying “He’s got a long way to go, and things he needs to improve on”. Maybe true, but why do I get the impression that he really means “Not quite good enough for our first team squad yet” ? A pity that, and against what most of us would like to see, at least a place on the bench. Damning praise, and out on loan come January? I hope not!
Agreed Ken. I thing you have put into words what a lot of us are thinking.
Thanks for another accurate report RR that confirmed it was no apparition I witnessed last night.
Top report following another enjoyable lead article.
A semi to look forward to, a glance at League Cup history shows us to be the 13th most successful team in the competition.
Quote from Pulis in the newspaper today about Lewis Wing.
“Lewis is a good player. There are lots of things to improve on, lots of things to learn, but he’s a wonderful lad and loves every minute of playing football. He has just signed a new contract and needs to keep his feet on the ground and work hard, then one day he will be a regular.”
Sounds like he will be at best on the bench at the weekend and is unlikely to be a “regular” for some time. Depressing.
Boroexile,
Totally depressing but totally predictable.
Put him on the bench what for? “He loves playing football”, well play him, at least he doesn’t just go through the motions like some.
UTB,
John
Agreed Ken. I thing you have put into words what a lot of us are thinking.
Well, that was better and worth a long drive.
As usual a very good report RR, thank you and I liked the Halloween references! At least we weren’t haunted by TP selections.
There was a lot more intensity although towards the end, I did think that there were some tired legs, still won’t be playing Saturday so not an issue, mores the pity. Surprised Grant lasted the full game too.
I am not sure what Lewis Wing has to do to get a place in the team, let alone squad. He is 23, so not a lad and worth starting every game. Same with Tav, who I am informed, is on the FAs list of prospects for the full England team.
There were a few times when our strikers couldn’t hit the target and I am beginning to think that they practice missing at Rockcliffe, such is the frequency.
I joking said that the only reason that Wing scored was he was, per instructions, aiming for the corner flag!!
Personally, I would start the game against Stoke with the following
Randolph
Fry, Flint and Ba’ath Friend
Downing Howson Clayton Wing
Tavernier Braithwaite
Yes, I know there is no striker as such but given that none of them score, might as well try something else!
Still, a QF game at home against Button although even on the walk back, someone had to spoil it with the mention of a welsh team starting with C! Consensus was that that game was probably one of the worst, especially given the expectations, typical Boro strikes again.
Much to my disappointment, I will be away when the game is played so will have to wait for the SF.
UTB
Many thanks to RR for a great entertaining monster of a match report – it was the first half on the front foot and the second on the back foot. I’d agree that Tav was probably MOM for me, I thought he showed great maturity in the second half and was impressed in the first half with his quick feet and looks to have a good footballing brain too – Pulis should look how he can be fast-tracked into the matchday squad as we don’t have a similar player with his pace. Wing stole the show with his goal but I also thought that lofted pass to a breaking Tavernier demonstrated that feature of his game is something other just don’t have in midfield – again also demonstrates his footballing brain.
I’m personally not convinced by Hugill as a striker but would concede he is the best option out of Britt and Gestede in terms of holding the ball. The problem would be that without players breaking from midfield like Tav and Wing did last night, then just holding the ball would offer no goal threat. Call me old fashioned but I think strikers need to trouble the keeper much more than Hugill, Britt and Rudy do – Fletcher could potentially be a more rounded centre-forward as he has physicality and skill but hasn’t yet broke through in terms of his performances and hasn’t yet settled since his move. Boro in general still lack composure in the final third and despite a better performance it was still just one shot on target so we shouldn’t get too carried away.
It also looked to me that Leadbitter is not the player he was and it may be time for him to move on as a game every few months will not keep him sharp enough. I though Saville looked decent enough and he may get better with more games, McNair probably the same but he didn’t look too comfortable at right-back and got caught out a few times.
Overall a good performance from Boro and hopefully Tony Pulis saw some things he’s currently missing in his usual Championship selections that will encourage to be a little more adventurous.
I think Fletcher may make the bench for Pulis ahead of Gestede after their bust up on wed night
I think Hugill will start up front and three at the back with Flint Fry and Ba’ath
Midfield as usual
Braithwaite on bench
And guess what my forecast is ????
⚽️⚽️
OFB
Great report RR thank you which helped to fill in the blanks as I was out last night and missed all the first half but delighted to find we were 1-0 up when I got home.
Initially I started to listen to the second half but then discovered Werder’s video link (many thanks Werder) and watched the last 40 mins.
In the end a good result and some impressive performances which will give TP food for thought.
It was interesting to contrast some of the views on here about Hugill as against the views of Maddo on BBC Tees. He was of the view that Hugill had had a very good game and was being substituted to save him for Saturday as he felt he would be sure to start.
I suppose the big question is will this result/performances get Wing/Tavenier into the match day squad?
The night was nicely rounded off by being drawn for a home tie against Burton.
CoB
Just watched the highlights and seen TP’s reaction, or lack of, when the goal was scored and listened to his post-match comments on Wing.
I believe that he has a player who when played is producing as good as if not better performances than some of his expensive imports but is not prepared to acknowledge it by putting him in the team. Poor man management in my view as his praise was half hearted and came across as if Wing will develop into a first team regular but not in my time.
Given TP acknowledges that he have a problem in the final third then he needs to show that he is attempting to do something about it rather than merely saying we need to get it right and doing the same thing week in week out!
A few more below par league performances and no goals will put pressure on him to accept he got it wrong or he will prove that those he picks does what is wanted and deliver. If its the former we could be in for a very interesting festive period where goodwill is in very short supply on Teesside. Lets hope for all our sakes he gets it right by everyone because at the minute its a case of so close yet so far and pride (stubborn perhaps) often comes before a fall which would be in nobody’s long term interest.
KP, I agree TP action of pulling a face then turning his back to the celebrations says it all for me
Are you really saying he would have preferred if the ball had gone over the bar?
KP,
He certainly presents a greater threat, as do the other two players he won’t play but don’t expect any change on Saturday. Same old, same old. People used to say about ‘unearthing a couple of rough diamonds’ and Boro really do look after them. They almost put them back for somebody else.
Somewhere in there is a major attitude problem and that body language stinks too.
The only way it will change is if there is major change so don’t hold your breath.
Quite depressing really.
UTB,
John
It is now a straight forward difference of opinion, a manager who has consistently ignored a very good young player in spite of the supporters telling him how good the player is. And a malfunctioning front end.
They were a pleasure to watch, Wing was outstanding together with Tavernier, different class, forward thinking, supply of through balls, all missed for various reasons, but a wonderful goal.
Someone must take the manager to one side and explain that both Tav and Wing must play, Wing is 22 and must pursue his career now, right now. We want to see him, not the dross served up to us on a weekly basis.
If it comes to a choice between the younsters and the manager then it will mean goodbye and don’t ring us we will ring you.
I found it offensive to talk about a fine player as he did, and dangerous, what if some club waltzed in and bought him?
To say he had a long way to go to make a player, exposed the manager to public shame and ridicule, and was not good for our club.
GOod post bit he’s 23 now
Given that a managers ‘life expectancy’ is directly proportional to a teams win rate, why would any manager, TP included, not play a player who is ‘better’ than those currently in the first XI. The argument makes no sense.
Nigel, I guess it is all down to what the players concerned are ‘better’ at. Playing to a system? Following instructions? Keeping to percentages?…
Nigel
It is illogical to play those who are utterly unable to put the ball in the net ( repeatedly) It is equally illogical to state publicly that a 22 year old who has single handedly hauled himself out of non league, is a young lad who has a long way to go and a lot to learn. It is also uncivil, ungentlemanly, and ignorant, not good for our club, and frankly part of the syndrome under which Traore was sold, ( and, of course improved our team in the process) or so it was said.
Lewis Wing is a young lad, he has a long way to go, and still has much to learn. The manager is quite right.
I’m probably getting ahead of myself here, but if Boro reach the semifinals of the Carabao Cup and are drawn to play Spurs with the two legged ties scheduled for the weeks commencing 7th and 21st January, does anyone know if we will we be playing the away tie at Wembley or will Spurs have moved into their much delayed new stadium by then?
Thanks to RR for the report. Top work.
I took TP’s comments on Wing to be about keeping LW’s feet on the ground rather than dismissing his talent. Pulis obviously thinks that’s required which perhaps raises a question or two about his view of Wing’s temprament. Perhaps that’s part of the reasoning as to why he hasn’t played as much.
Either way, the clamour for WIng to play a more prominent role is getting defeaning now and – call me naive – but I think it wont be long before we start to see more of him. His impact has been undeniable and Tavernier isn’t too far behind. I don’t expect either to start on Saturday and am not sure if they will make the bench either to be perfectly honest but am struggling to see how they can be resisted much beyond that, at least for the bench.
On a seperate tactical note, it was good to see a 4-3-3 actually working cohesively for us. The make-up of the midfield was key to that for me and, if we’re going to play that way, I think Pulis needs to look more at the balance than the individuals. A tackler, a passer and someone who gets forward are the required ingredients in my opinion. We had that last night and it worked.
Ken
There is no chance whatsoever that Spurs will be back home.
Andy R
If only I could believe that was his intention
I felt that TP’s words after the game concerning Lewis Wing were designed to stop people going overboard and meant to keep the boys feet on the ground. To think that he wasn’t pleased when Wing’s shot flew in is simply ludicrous.
GHW’
He has serious form in blanking players who he decides are not good enough.(Bamford?)
Words have a power of their own, and his words meant no good for the fans of this club, read them and weep. He is obviously not going to have players getting the ball forward and smashing the ball in the net for worldies.
Just a couple of facts about Wing, one, he smashed 37 goals for his non league club, two, his goal was a lot more than a smash, he was partly shielded by an opposing player and had some bend on the ball.
Just a thought, whoever spotted him must surely get a large bonus, and be told to keep doing it. What a beauty.
You’re quoting Bamford to the wrong person. I don’t rate him anywhere near the rest of the posters on here and thought £10 million was very good business.
GHW
Luckily there are spaces between the lines for us to insert our own meanings.
Whenever a manager or coach or player speaks in public we all read in to it what we want..
Thanks for the Halloween take on the match Redcar. Just as well it was not played here in the Costa del Sol, as it would have been cancelled just like Halloween for the children. The match certainly brightened up my night.
Whilst I can agree to a point of keeping LW´s feet on the ground and Tav´s also I think he could of been a little more generous in acknowledging there role in the victory. Both have a lot to learn we all know that, but what they have got that some of the regular first team picks do not have, is that forward defence splitting pass and a certain amount of pace to boot.
As much as he was criticized and rightly so in the end, Rameriz had that ability in bucket loads and that is what we do not have in the first elen that TP keeps picking. Last night even though I thought he had a decent game, Saville played far to many sideways and back passes.
We won! Traveled over yesterday afternoon, quick meal at hotel then on to match wondering which Boro would turn up. It was the fighting, winning team. Train back at 06:45 this morning at home at 11:20. I was bouncing (not literally at my age) then out to my local for a nice meal and drink to celebrate. I thought Tav and Wing added a lot to Boro’s attack (and so does Chapman when picked). They don’t seem to have yet bought into the sideways and backwards passing routine but still think when they get the ball they need to quickly head towards the opposition goal. Yes they make mistakes but so do the first team regulars and they put in good defensive work when needed. I thought Hugill did well as our non-scoring striker and Batth also played well. Leadbitter has slowed down but was always available for a pass. This was one of those times it was great to support the Boro.
Enjoyed last night as it was a nice change to see us at the opposition from the off. We played some good stuff especially in the first half and deserved to go in 1 goal up from Wings cracker.
Second half Palace came onto us more but defensively we were excellent and bar the odd moment looked really solid. Dimi had one real save to make late on and he dealt with it fairly comfortably.
I thought there were no poor performances apart from possibly Gestede and the addition to the starting 11 of Wing and Tavernier gave us what most Boro fans expected and hoped for. So what chance of those two being involved Saturday? Well I’m not expecting to be surprised.
Once again Braithwaite looked a top player for the championship and I thought Hugill had his best game that I’ve seen him play. He stayed on his feet and held the ball up virtually every time it was played up to him.
The only downside from last night, apart from what looked like a very serious injury to McQueen, was our lack of cutting edge in front of goal. And I include all outfielders in that. If we can sort out that side of our game we could be very difficult to beat in the grind of the championship.
Just going back to McQueens injury. When he went down the background microphones picked up his cry of pain and he barely moved throughout his lengthy on field treatment which is usually a sure fire indicator that it was serious. Good luck to the lad and hopefully he’s back playing soon.
Ian’s right. It is possible to play badly and win by a great-looking scoreline, in the same way it is possible to dominate possession, create many chances and still lose 1-0. Or draw 0-0.
He’s already given me the great 0-0 followed by the dire 3-0 with the Tony McAndrew hat-trick, but there is more.
Like in the two home games against Leeds in 2015. The first? 64% possession, 27 shots on goal, yet 0-1. The second? 41% possession, 2 (two!) shots on target, yet 3-0. The other goal was a comedy own goal.
It may be as simple as saying we had all the luck in the latter and none of it in the first, but you earn your luck, and we arguably did so by coming into the second game with more confidence and not trying too hard.
That, and there’s less pressure on the team to score when the opposition is gifting the goals to them and the home crowd, or favourites, aren’t stunned into silence by a very early goal which gives the underdogs an invaluable lift.
It isn’t just a Boro thing. Belgium v Saudi Arabia, 1994. Biggest shock of the first round in the World Cup. Owairan’s stunning solo effort after five minutes shocked the Belgians and despite creating chance after chance they never really recovered. Confidence was key.
More recently? England’s biggest win at the 2002 World Cup. Controversially I would argue this was actually England’s worst performance of the tournament. The second round win against Denmark didn’t feel like a 3-0 win at all – Sorensen and the Danish defence gifted three chances to an English side which had about a third of the ball in the first half, and they snapped them all up.
England were actually very solid and composed in the first half against Brazil in the quarter-final – you could simply argue that the Brazilians’ all around-skill and opportunism, coupled with simply being a better team, found them out. It happens.
For true fairness, and decency, to all those involved, it helps to look at the bigger picture.
Simon
didn’t we once beat Arsenal 3 nil, with no shots on target?
I may have mentioned before on the blog that I was at that match as I lived in London at the time – unfortunately (fortunately?) my friend and I used the season ticket of his boss, who was an Arsenal fan so it was in the home end. Boro were 2-0 up at half-time with no shots on target thanks to two own-goals. It was hard to contain my joy and after the third went in the home fans started to turn and I was at least able to join in calling the Gunners useless. When the Boro supporters started chanting ‘Are you Tottenham in disguise’ many of the home fans knew the game was up and found it quite amusing – especially as Terry Venables was in the dugout ‘assisting’ Bryan Robson. Needless to say I’d gone to the game in hope rather than expectation and my mate (who wasn’t a Boro fan) asked if my team were always that lucky!
Yes I was there at Highbury and it was comedic !
And bloody wonderful too !
OFB
I would say ultimately, whether we agree with the decisions made by a manager, we have to respect that he selects what he believes are the best players to play a match in the manner he wants. It would be a strange day indeed if a manager deliberately picked a worse team than he thought he could – though in the context of the Carabao Cup, the team being picked is normally aimed at the one for the following league game.
It’s hard to determine why he thinks Wing or Tavernier are not not capable of a seat on the bench given the impact they’ve had when getting on the pitch. It may boil down to how he perceives their ability to carry out his game-plan instructions rather than their overall capability. What is important to some managers may depend on how they react to failures to micro-management – we’ve seen that individual errors can count against a player more if they’re were errors of carrying out instruction rather than simply errors of execution due to lack of ability.
We should perhaps give Tony Pulis a little slack given how he worked with Adama to get the best out of him where others had failed. It may be hard for him to ignore Wing and Tavernier with each good performance but as Fry has discovered it is also easy to lose your place if it’s deemed by the manager they were not better than the other nine outfield players – though it may be just easier in terms of keeping more expensive assets happy to drop youngsters who can presumably wait for their time to come. The loss of McQueen will at least provide a spare seat on the bench for someone – let’s hope it’s a chance taken.
Not quite, Chris…
In the first half we were 2-0 up thanks to a harmless Windass shot getting a big deflection and Sylvinho (or Edu) slicing into his goal. That gave us an unexpected platform of confidence to build on – when Boksic backheeled to Ricard, who fired in the third, it was no surprise.
Thanks for the match Report RR greatly appreciated and well written
Obviously the crowd were pleased that wing and Tav proved a point but don’t expect either to be on the team on Saturday night
Still think Saville has a lot to prove yet and doesn’t look like a £7m player to me
Couple of points
Talked to Dave Hodgson as Doug Weatherall and I are currently doing s piece on him and Hodgie said that Craig has been seriously ill so I hope he gets better soon
The other thing I heard last night is that Harry Chapman is in dispute with the club and refusing to sign a new contract so we could potentially let him walk away for free which is not good business
I enjoyed last night and low crowd or not they made a lot of noise and it was a very good game but hey I enjoy every game we win!
OFB
Sorry doing a piece on Craig Johnson for clarification. Hodgy just happened to be talking to me !
I was winding up Steve Vickers as he was Interviewing Hodgy and using all my questions from the In2Views
OFB
OFB,
Excellent.
UTB,
John
OFB,
Craig had skin cancer a couple of years ago – good link attached – but I think is ok now.
https://www.playersvoice.com.au/craig-johnston-it-feels-like-liverpool/#gCPBZEYv65cpdK3s.97
Michael Bridges (Leeds/Mackems) posted a pic last month on Linkedin of him and Craig hosting a corporate boat trip around Sydney harbour. CJ looked well, if a tad unrecognisable. His stance is the same tho’ all these years on.
Richard
Yes I’ve got that photo from David Hodgson and don’t intend to use it in the article .
I’m pleased he’s on the mend cancer is such a terrible disease
One of my favourite players whom I used to referee when he was a Boro apprentice along with Stan Cummins, David Hodgson amd Mark Proctor.
All great lads and I’m pleased to see the likes of Lewis Wing who was a Shildon player and Tav and Mahmutovic coming through. As well as Nathan Wood Gordon look out for Brahimi he’s one to watch
OFB
I don’t think any Manager would deliberately pick a weakened team but there have been plenty of examples historically of eccentricities in both tactics and favouritism which ultimately cost Managers their employment status.
AK was an example of singular bloodymindedness with playing Stuani anywhere but as a Striker and also having a penchant for Spanish speakers regardless of their ability to take a throw in or save shots and lets not forget AA in all that lot. TP seemed to love Adama and seems biased in favour of Gestede but not too fond of Paddy and now possibly Wing and even Tav.
To balance things I think it was also obvious that Sralex didn’t warm to players who became too big for their boots and Arsene had his views on big earners. Even our very own Big Jack had been accused of being less than fair with Craig Johnston who seemed to have done alright as I seem to recall. All those Managers were successful but it didn’t make them right.
I sometimes wonder whether some managers try to control the game based on calculating all the statistical data and devising a game plan that requires individual players to make small gains over their opposite numbers in the hope that they should ultimately prevail in a kind of footballing top trumps. We know Tony Pulis counts the crosses and even measures the percentage of that were deemed below standard. Perhaps his problem with young players is that they just don’t have enough data under their belts for him to fit them into his equation. For him it’s perhaps more about having players who he can trust to carry out his instructions and at least statistically better the opposition.
It seems to me that some managers think that a football pitch is a giant chessboard. Where’s the fun in that?
RR you are right that managerial eccentricities and bloodymindedness ultimately cost them their jobs even if their teams are successful judged by results. The difference at the moment with Pulis is that the current form statistics in the league show that we are performing poorly while the Carabao Cup team is performing well. So why is he still not prepared to consider Wing and Tavernier for the league team?
Well, it may be that he believes that his journeymen league side is best suited to get the results in the league that will ultimately result in achieving the imperative of promotion. Why he would believe that based on the evidence of recent weeks and the turgid efforts and poor results in the league compared with the more positive efforts and wins in the cup is a puzzle. It may be that he really believes that Wing and Tavernier need more experience and have to learn more before becoming ”regulars” as he said after the game yesterday. Most fans won’t understand that argument as they see the league team playing dull, defensive football with poor results while the Cup team plays more attractive football and is winning. Last night they beat a Premier League team while the league team couldn’t beat Rotherham.
So why would he ignore the claims of Wing and Tavernier to be played in the league when it is obvious to most fans that the team is crying out for what they have demonstrated they will bring? Could it be bloodymindedness? Answers on a postcard please.
Redcar, being successful does make you ‘right’, surely?
It depends on what you regard as being “right” at the end of the day and probably when you measure it.
Beckham went on to even greater things, Arsene eventually smothered the club he loved with outdated “value propositions”, AK we know only too well of his rights and wrongs, and Craig Johnston certainly proved JC wrong. For me personally the end doesn’t always justify the means whether in business, politics or sport.
Nigel
It is the duty of my manager to consider all aspects of what is best for my club.
Money provided by my club found Wing in non league, we secured him (luckily) and the future wellbeing of my club demand that he is assimilated into the team a.s.a.p. He is living in a fools paradise if he thinks that Wing has to wait on his princely pleasure to have a career in league football. That is clearly not the case. We are going to lose Chapman, (thank you for that mr Pulis) we had better have a word with him and quickly. If it comes to, ” who do I leave out to accommodate Wing and Tav” there will be no shortage of answers.
In fairness, RR.
It is documented that Big Jack was especially harsh when, after the side Johnston was playing in were 3-0 down at HT in a trial game, he told CJ: “You are the worst footballer I have ever seen in my life. Now *expletive* off back to Australia.” This after CJ’s parents had sold the house to finance his trip!
And yet… I pass you over to CJ:
“The fact was that Jack Charlton was not wrong. Compared to the sophisticated 15-year-old English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh kids, I was a laughing stock.”
So he cleaned players boots and cars for a year and a half to earn his keep while “hiding” from Big Jack – and practicing football for six or seven hours a day.
Those harsh words weren’t fair on CJ – but would he have been the player he was without them?
Jack’s also known to have sent a young Gazza away from his office in tears after ordering the star to get all his fat off within two weeks – or he’d be out of the club.
Later Gazza called Jack his second Dad.
So there you go.
I guess it all about management and how you handle the players to get the best from them.
Cloughie apparently knew when to put an arm round a player or when to read the riot act to them and one type of management doesn’t work for everybody.
The key is flexibility and also to know when you may be wrong, then take action.
TP is an experienced manager and by all accounts well respected by players so one would think that he knows what works and what doesn’t.
That said, from our standpoint as fans, it does look like something is not working and we will voice our concerns. We don’t have the luxury of seeing the players day in day out and what their attitude is. All we see are results and at times a complete lack of ability to do the basic things right, so we vent our views.
I have said that I want to be entertained and if that is not possible, then I want to see us win games and be successful. I guess on that basis, then I have mixed feelings since lately, we haven’t be winning or entertaining but are still somehow in 3rd place. As Americans would say Go Figure!
I accept that we are all fickle creatures who change our views but all want Boro to do well.
There is a still long way to go and if we win on Saturday, then we will no doubt all be happy bunnies. And if we lose, the knives will be out!
UTB
If I was Lewis Wing I would be very upset at TP comments. I have just had a great game and scored a great goal and TP says I have a long way to go and need to learn more before I will be given a first team place. I have just played against a Premier league club and done more to earn a place than some senior players. The supporters and most of the media are behind me. I might be a bit raw but give me a run out in the first team and I can only get better and stronger. Please don’t hold me back.
I think I heard TP to say:” Wing has a long way to go and need to learn more before I will be a first team FIXTURE (or regular).”
So he needs to grow a bit and practise a lot. I don’t think he was as well coached in the Northern League as at Boro now. So me might need a few more months before becoming a regular first team player.
Up the Boro!
The tone recently has been that it’s ridiculous that Wing and Tav are constantly left out for league games. I think if you look at it from the perspective of the choice Pulis is making, particularly who would be left out, it seems less so.
For Tav to start, Pulis would most likely have to leave out either Downing – comfortably one of our better performers this season – or Braithwaite – arguably our most talented player.
For Wing to start, the choices seem to be between him, Besic or Howson. Maybe Saville too.
I’m not saying that Pulis is making the all the right choices but I’d stop short of suggesting it was ridiculous in light of the more proven players he’d be leaving out, though it isn’t exactly a fair comparison given the difference in experience.
Having seen Howson for over a season now, I think Wing has more to offer in terms of an obvious contribution. Besic still impresses me though and I think there’s plenty of talent there, somewhat hindered by a lack of good (or perhaps more fitting) options in front of him. Were we a side that played through teams with plenty of movement up top I think Besic’s passing would come to the fore. Arguably he’d be a better player with someone like Tav to play with, maybe Fletcher too though I haven’t seen enough of him. Saville looks ok but no more than that at this stage and the fee looks about three times too much.
My summary of that is that, on an individual basis, it’s disappointing that Wing and Tav dont feature more but not completely ridiculous.. It’s far less understandable that they don’t make the bench however.
That is all talk about individuals though when the real question is about the balance of the side. However he compares to his squad-mates Tav does have pace, energy and a directness that the team generally lacks. Wing has a final ball, good set piece delivery and a shot in him which again we generally lack. The side looks better balanced with them around.
It can’t be long.
I would leave Howson on the bench for Stoke and be a touch more positive, with Wing and Tav both on the bench and likely to come on:
Randolph
Flint Batth Fry (Ayala suspended)
McNair Clayton Besic Friend
Downing
Braithwaite Assombalonga
Subs to include Wing, Tav and Fletcher.
With Ayala suspended, Shotton most likely still injured and McQueen now looking like a long-term absentee, then there are suddenly a couple of extra seats available on the bench. A lot will depend on whether Pulis goes with a back three and if he does then he may need to have Wood on the bench as cover, otherwise it will be Batth.
If we look at who started on Wednesday – McNair, Ayala. Batth, Friend, McQueen, Leadbitter, Wing, Tavernier, Braithwaite, Hugill – with Saville, Gestede and Fletcher coming on as subs – then I would expect five of those would normally start at Stoke (McNair, Batth, Friend, Braithwaite and Hugill).
I would mean possibly the six outfield subs consisting of one central defender (Batth/Wood), two strikers (Gestede, Britt) and three midfielders/forwards (Saville, Wing, Tavernier). Though if it is 5-2-3 then it would be Howson or Besic getting left out to take a midfield seat on the bench.
Pulis’s only other realistic options would be Leadbitter and Fletcher – there was some suggestions that Gestede had a fall out with his manager after the game and that may mean Fletcher is given the nod instead. I don’t think the old legs of Leadbitter will be considered after playing 90 minutes three days earlier.
So there’s a good chance both Wing and Tavernier will be on the bench on Saturday – though a very small chance one of them will start.
Up-front, I think given none of our three main strikers look like scoring at the moment, then it may be decided on who is best at the secondary role of holding the ball – which is an easy decision given the first touches of both Assombalonga and Gestede. So I’d expect Hugill to get the nod with Downing and Braithwaite supporting.
TP ‘s reaction to the goal was noted, if I had just scored that goal then I would be happier seeing the reaction Lampard displayed than TP.s “excitement”
Bit like his football philosophy at the moment, controlled, robotic, stick to the plan.Get some passion and enthusiasm into the side for Gods sake !
AK was right, that Stuani will never be a striker how’s he doing now ?
I went to see Boro play West Ham at Upton Park in 1977( I think it was and had to stand in the home end ,scarf hidden ) we won 1-0 and I had to celebrate on the inside. Maybe that was TP’s reasoning ” if I celebrate too much then the fans will ask why do I not even have him on the bench”
UTB
Andy, I think the clamour is more for Wing and Tav to be included on the bench as true alternatives to the first eleven.
As you said LW can hit a good dead ball and from what I have seen is the best in the club. Far better than SD who has been playing well but who’s corners and free kicks have generally been poor.
I would bench Howson as he does not produce much apart from high running stastistics. Saville has a lot to do to prove he is anywhere near worth 7mil.
Wing certainly provoked many different opinions, amongst them the following, good through ball, a good shot, good movement off the ball, makes a big difference to the result when playing, provides high entertainment value, combines well with Tav.
A goal scorer on his record with his previous club. A great find by our recruitment staff.(bonuses all round, and keep up the good work).
So, tell me then, with the team struggling in the league, and with goal scoring all but impossible for the present incumbents. Why are we permitting the present farce to go on, in which we are told that Wing and Tav. Have a long way to go to be footballers.
We have a manager out of control, having already sold a player because he was talented, he is headed the same way with Chapman, followed shortly by Wing, and, in all likelihood by Tav. Leaving us with 50million of scrap strikers( unsaleable at any price)
I heard on Wednesday night that Chapman has refused to sign a new contract and wants to be away
OFB
Come on, Plato – what would your XI be against Stoke?
AndyR
I find it very sad that an organised championship side should be in a tizzie over something as exciting as a new young player blazing onto the scene, never mind that he has a partner breaking through as good as him.
When that happens it is a natural part of football, and the natural result is that he is in the side and someone makes way for him, or them, as the case may be.
It does not matter that the manager says,” over my dead body”, it simply means that he is talking nonsense, hard to accept, I know, but true, nevertheless.
It is not only the job, but the dream, of everyone in football to discover a star, that is universal all over the world.
The fans lucky enough to watch him, go on the journey with him, both the triumphs and the disappointments.
I have just watched friends, fans, and club officials of Shildon, talking about Wing, and what they said about him as a person, and a player.
Please watch it, encapsulates all that is great about the game in all its manifestations.
The thing about the video is that they marvelled at his brilliance, set up their team to cash in on his presence in their team, and saw things that amazed them, goals to marvel, at individual brilliance, team spirit, nights in the pub, and days in the factory.
Followed by an interview with Wing himself, extremely moving, as he described our club telling him to get his body down to Hurworth for a look at him. Followed of course by the dreadful wait for the verdict. The joy of all his friends and relatives was something to see, and the very quick extension of his contract was proof, if proof were needed that we have been very lucky to be chosen because his family support Boro.
He is the real deal, but we had better remember that football is a rat race, and if we carry on pretending that he is nothing special , and must wait for some vague future that may never come, then there are plenty of other clubs, Palace perhaps, who will be only too happy to make his dreams come true.
It does look as if the five match burst at the beginning of the season was down to Wing and Tav. And to turn it on at will as we have played our cup ties is remarkable.
I found this on Twitter after the Palace match: “One more premier league team defeated than the Geordies.” Hilarious response to our win.
Let’s see how the bug of illness is going at the Riverside. So we have a lot to guess now that Ayala is also injured. Hope every one is well again as we have two “wing backs” injured.
Up the Boro!
Ayala is suspended, of course next Saturday. UTB!
Thanks for the in depth report RR.
Have to disagree about managers not putting out weakened teams. Managers from virtually all leagues have left out some if not all of their best players when coming up against lower league opposition, or teams lower in the league they’re in. Most managers see league results as a priority over domestic cup games until the semi final stage.
As Hugill and Braithwaite were subbed pretty early in the second half I suspect they will be starting come Saturday tea time. I’d go for the following starting 11:
Randolph
McNair Flint Baath Friend
Wing Clayton Besic
Braithwaite Hugill Downing
Subs: Lonigan Fry Leadbitter Saville Tavernier Assombalonga Fletcher
Don’t expect TP will agree!
We have two problems as I see it with regards to Wing. One of them is that TP’s teams rely a lot on set pieces which have been poor in the main and made worse now that we are shorn of Shotton’s long throws. Our free kicks and corners are devoid of any quality or threat. Wing’s assists back in August haven’t been replaced in the side.
The other problem is that we have too many midfielders and none of whom create a spark, an unexpected source of combustion. Plenty of willingness and energy undoubtedly but nothing that stands out as a game changer. The fact that Stewy is probably one of our better players at his age and is the most creative along with George screams this from the rooftops at deafening decibels.
Besic may suddenly click but at the minute he looks like a Ferrari with a blown head gasket, Howson has bags of energy but those long range shots and goals that I seem to recall prior to joining us seem to be ancient history. Maybe my recollections and therefore expectations of him are slightly sepia tinted and maybe he only played and fired shots in against the Boro and done nothing for the rest f the season at his former clubs.
Saville is a victim of his price tag, he looks every inch a £350,000 player and the price tag gets heavier by the week and I suspect greater still as January approaches. He seems a younger Grant Leadbitter, a defensive possession retainer who has a shot in him when the chance permits but again not likely to set up attacks or play a killer ball with deft touch.
The consequences of the above means that our Striker (whoever it may be) gets poor to little service (apart from lots of crosses obviously). There is little spark or pace from the centre of the pitch no vision or creativity and certainly no shooting or if there is they couldn’t hit a cows backside with a banjo. We see them trying to pass the ball interminably into the net with always playing one pass too many (usually after half a dozen of the Chuckle Brother variety). The cynic in me thought that may have been the reason TP didn’t seem too enamoured with Wing’s goal, maybe there was a brilliant wide pass out to the overlapping McNair on the cards?
Wing may have a bad attitude in training or maybe he doesn’t walk his dogs or spends most midweek evenings in the Railway Shunters Arms but he does bring something that the others don’t, a shot (Friends goal in the dying seconds at the Den was because of Wing’s shot). Lewis also brings decent corners (not 100% admittedly) but he did provide the ammo for a few goals in August. Unless and until the “bigger” names or older “Men” deliver then the clamour will just get louder.
As for Tav he isn’t as quick as Adama, probably not as skilful but he does look up, has awareness of what and who is around him and reacts to the unlike the often lost Adama. Since Adama’s lamented departure nobody excites the fans, there is no spark, no life in the side, Tav is the nearest thing the club currently posses to that and its looking like maybe Fletcher is worth another opportunity.
The frustration is when fans look at the bench and they see the Dad’s Army of Championship football. Mono paced, mostly defensive players or non scoring Strikers. Putting a Sub on should lift the crowd as well as the team. The twelfth man getting excited when say Adama stripped off because we knew something was going to happen, granted it mostly ended in dead alleyways but at least there was that excitement and hope. Seeing just as an example Saville, McQueen or Gestede come on just doesn’t have the same effect. If psychologically the fans aren’t rejuvenated or lifted by TP’s substitutions then what effect is that having on the actual eleven players themselves?
RR
On his recent performances I agree Saville does look a £350000 player. If he was anywhere near being as good as Grant at his best I would be more than happy.
He isn’t but with age on his side he can certainly improve. How old is he? Any ideas?
Saville is perhaps not a £7m player but given he scored 20 goals last season for Millwall it would easily make him a lot more than £350,000. His problem is it’s hard see him getting game time at Boro and it begs the question of why the club wanted him so badly to pay that kind of money.
There may be an escape clause in his loan deal conversion but I suspect any cancellation may come at a price. He seemed tidy enough in his first few games and scored a nice goal but his shift to the holding role (that ended badly) was an odd one given Boro presumably agreed the £7m valuation based on him being an attacking midfielder.
Born in 93 he’s 25
OFB
26 may be
I keep reading that our team on Wednesday beat a Premiership team but did they ! I was at the game and to me it was BORO reserves v Palace reserves with a sprinkling of first team squad in both teams, which we won convincingly in my opinion as Palace players did not look really interested, was it too cold up in the frozen north !
For those who say we played a Premiership side, which of the Palace players from Wednesday night would you like to see MFC pay good money for in January and who would they replace in our first team.
For all those clamouring for Wing and Tavernier to play in the first team, think back to Boro youngsters thrust into the first team too early and apart from a couple of early reasonable performances, found out it was too much too early, crowd turning against them because they did not live up to inflated expectations, then not only disappearing from the team but the club also, Andy Campbell was such a player but I am sure other people will remember many more.
Yes, I acknowledge they have played well in the Caraboa Cup getting through on penalties against Notts County, scraping a 2 – 1 win against Rochdale, penalties again against PNE and a 1 nil win against Palace reserves. Don’t get me wrong I am not putting down those victories, although if you check the opposition team sheets they all played “weakened “ sides but at the same time let’s not build those victories out of proportion when you compare playing full hard bitten championship sides week in week out.
It is TP’s job to at least get us into the playoffs (preferably automatic promotion) over a long gruelling season, by judging when individual players will fit into the next match. Lots of things will influence his decisions over the season, let’s take our strong defence with plenty of choices to play a week or so ago, now we have Shotton and McQeen injured, Ayala suspended and suddenly we are not so flush.
I firmly believe that Wing and Tavernier will get first team starts sometime during the season even if it is because of injuries or suspensions and it will be up to them to cement their place in the team by consistent performances against championship sides. Remember there are no “easy” games in the championship despite the opposition current league position.
Come on BORO.
Exactly. And may I just add one point.
For the last time, TP did not sell Adama Traore or force him out of the club.
GHW
Unfortunately it doesn’t fit the narrative of some Boro supporters.
Didn’t TP insert the release clause in to Adama’s Boro contract whilst he was manager at Palace?
🙂
Ghw
The club are responsible for all that happens regarding in’s and outs when it comes to players. It is misleading for them to say, ” well, I never, who would have believed it?” When they knowingly part with a classy player who is eagerly welcomed by his new club. Because they are weakening the fabric of the organisation, just as they are doing when they give their wallet to any new manager sight unseen.
No manager should have the right to buy, without supervision any player that he fancies. That way lies madness.
We will refrain from the obvious remark, regarding any player not bought by him, that is playing out in front of our eyes right now, and will not end well.
the next stage of this comedy will be when the national press decides to have a little fun with the story. He will not emerge from it with any credit, or dignity.
Exmil
I agree with you that on Wednesday both clubs played what were effectively their second string sides.
As far as Wing and Tavernier are concerned you seem to have overlooked that as well as the cup games they also made positive contributions in the early league games. Both in my view did enough to justify being retained in the side but were dropped as soon as the new recruits arrived.
The question is are the new recruits contributing more than those who were already in possession of the shirt. Based on some performances it is highly questionable and I think that they both should have at least been included on the bench to give us some different options.
I agree that as the season develops and with injuries and suspensions kicking in then TP will have less reason not to include them. I am still far from convinced that they deserved being dropped in the first place or that what we acquired during the loan window are upgrades.
The average Championship Points Per Game average with those youngsters in the team in August versus the average PPG with the new signings stands up to scrutiny and indeed surpasses them. Coincidence maybe, good luck perhaps or it could be that they provided more than the new arrivals have shown to date.
One stand out moment is that opening match against Millwall when we were well off the pace and two goals down. On came the kids in probably the most hostile environment in the Championship and turned the game on its head. That side then went on a run of victories. Can anyone point to similar substitutions since then with such a dramatic effect?
ExMill
Some valid points there. Tony Pulis is always talking about a ‘structured’ team and that’s why both Lewis Wing and possibly Tavernier can’t be risked yet in a starting eleven. That’s not the Pulis way. They both will make the odd mistake as did Traore. Nevertheless it’s surely worth considering that both should be on the bench, that’s exactly what’s happening to Traore now at Wolves, an impact player late in the game when chasing a win or even a draw when behind. Tavernier certainly has the class to be a future star, but as Pulis said, Wing has not come through an academy system and is liable not to see the greater picture yet.
Whether or not Beckham went on to “better” things post-United depends on what you quantify as better.
Mr. Dunphy, what did you have to say about his move to LA Galaxy?
“You get all that money but you have still got to sit in your house at night in LA and you have got to say to yourself: ‘What is my life about?’ And you know your life is a succession of press conferences, of marketing drives, of photo shoots.
“But what makes football people happy is football.
“And I would say that at no time will David Beckham ever be as happy as he was playing alongside Paul Scholes, Roy Keane, Ryan Giggs and winning Premier Leagues, winning the Champions League and winning FA Cups. Where he has gone now is a pretty empty place.”
Note also that Beckham asked his “good friend Tom” for advice about his move to LA Galaxy. That’s Tom Cruise! Why not a football person?
Beckham will be happy when he gets his football club up and running
His preferred choice of a manager according to a conversation I had with Steve Agnew is to hire Steve Bruce
You heard it here first folks
OFB
I think you will find that T P said that he had lost his best mate when Traore was sold, if he had said that he did not want him to be sold, then he would not have been sold.
After all we spent the money on the players that he wanted, that worked out great, didn’t it. He’s still selecting them, as we speak.
So please do not make excuses for him, he never has made much sense, I still remember him being ecstatic when Gestade recovered from his injuries and was duly selected, and that has worked out well, not.
Once a club met the fee mentioned in the contract clause the club couldn’t keep Traore, it was out of their hands and up to the player. He decided to move and that’s the end of it.
This continual blame directed at TP is becoming tiresome.
Managers in today’s game don’t have the same controls over transfers as they used to do. Recruitment and Scouting departments exist in all top level clubs along with the Financial bead counters. Most clubs are now run along strict commercial lines hence FFP apart from those clubs who are untouchable in the top six Ivory Tower of the Premiership. There are others of course who gambled and it paid off with the paltry fines minuscule when contrasted with the riches of achieving Premiership status.
The danger is that if it goes wrong as it almost did with Boro on relegation during Southgates time and £100m in the red the club may take dcades to recover (Leeds/Portsmouth). At the start of the season under GM Traore would have been sold for what he cost had we had any takers at the time and most of us would have likely driven him there. Fast forward to Monk’s demise, TP taking over and nurturing the talent that lay deep within. The clause in his contract had been inserted previously and would have been considered a ridiculous fee of double what we paid for him which was good sound commercial sense at the time. Nobody then would have been bold enough to think that in a space of six months Adama ‘s value would literally double (or arguably treble had it not been for that clause).
Clauses are nothing unusual, there will have been clauses on the squads wages after the latest relegation especially after having fingers burned the last time and a fire sale being the consequence. There will be no doubt clauses inserted in other players contracts and as an example if someone offered say £12m for Gestede I dare say that may trigger a release clause in his should it exist.
There is also the additional problem of Agents who exist to make money and they do that by pimping their tarts around and all clubs are powerless to prevent them in their murky arts even the Madrids and Manchester clubs. Once a clause has been triggered both Club and Manager are powerless, it is entirely down to the player and his agent then to decide if they want to go or stay and of course as we know only too well from Besic lately, agents do like to make money and lots of it. Clauses are inserted at the time which in theory suits the club who hold the players registration but there is always a risk that in a very few cases some players double, treble or even quadruple their values and the clause at that point then looks woefully low, hindsight as always is a marvellous thing just as it was with Ziege.
At the moment Adama isn’t exactly having the best of times at Wolves having been hooked against Brighton so who knows in time it may be regarded a shrewd bit of business after all. We all know that Adama is capable of great things but we also know he can stand around, lost and detached from everything that is going on around him. We certainly do miss him, that goes without saying but we only miss him because of TP’s input and constant fatherly touchline coaching. Without that Adama has to prove he can do it all by himself and at Premiership level, so far the jury is out on that one.
Simon
Please, Beckham enjoyed a great career at united followed by Real, followed by a season in Paris.
Did you really think that he would hang up his boots and say, ” I am an ex-footballer”
He always had a bit more about him than that.
He is in on the foundations of big time American football league, they intend to take their place on the world stage, and will succeed, and his name will be part of it.
And his manager Steve Bruce
Maybe someone should ask Eamonn Dunphy what he actually achieved in his star studded career with the likes of Millwall and York. Sadly he is long out of touch with the modern game and in doing so has created a caricature of himself. The bloke made a living out of being deliberately controversial in order to pay the bills, a legend in his own lunch box. I found his views more of an irritation than interesting, more bitter than balanced because thats what sold.
Beckham became the first English player to win league titles in four countries, England, Spain, United States and France as well as representing his country at three World Cups whilst becoming a “Brand” in his own right. Personally I can take or leave him especially all the “Brand Beckham” stuff and the Spice Girl that he attached himself to but his lifetime achievements and personal development take some beating including becoming an Ambassador for Unicef.
With regards to Big Jack and ripping into a young lad alone, still in his teens whose family were the other side of the world that had to be the the lowest of the low. That style of management has destroyed far more than it ever built up, like Alf Garnett and Smoking it was accepted back in the seventies as were several other things that would not be tolerated today.
An interesting video interview with Lewis Wing. Contributions from people who know him well including his cousin Jason Steele. Who knew!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLtRvW0KBdpY0nJTLLTx-bH8ac_ebF7qyb&time_continue=4&v=4stqWDn5B-I
A good video about Lewis.
I hope Lewis Wing doesn’t become the Don Masson of today, Don was an elegant footballer with two good feet, not the most physical of players, but learned to look after himself as he progressed, he was in a really good QPR team in the early seventies with Marsh, Mclintoch, Francis, Bowles and the like…
I think we sold Masson for about £4,000 to Notts Co, seems we had the same recruitment team back then for ins and outs?
We gave him a free transfer. One of the grudges I have nurtured for many years now.
OFB
A bit earlier, you said Gestede had fallen out with the manager on Wednesday night. Can you explain, or shed a little light?
On the pitch, I saw him open his arms wide, looking very irate, presumably directed at the bench or Pulis ? But why? What had gone wrong and what was he unhappy about?
Then, at the end of the game, he charged off down the tunnel in an apparent huff, whilst all the other players celebrated and applauded the fans. My brother and I thought this was disgraceful, totally disrespectful. And both together, we said:- ‘If I was TP I wouldn’t pick him again.’ Now, that would be a blessing. Some clouds do have a silver lining.
Any offers, OFB?
Ambled off… surely?
The notion of Ruddy Gestede charging anywhere is a bit far fetched.
NO he ran off the quickest he’s been all season
OFB
Clive
That’s exactly what I saw too
Gestede was waving his arms around angrily at Pulis amd shouting at him
Ignoring the fans at the end is shameful
OFB
Cheers OFB. He was still on the bench today, so perhaps it wasn’t that serious?
Interesting stat of the day from the BBC website: Middlesbrough are still yet to score from outside the box in the Championship this season despite attempting 76 shots from outside the area.
No wonder Tony Pulis had a stunned expression after Wing’s screamer on Wednesday – it’s just not supposed to happen…
Just found time to watch the video on Lewis Wing that FAA kindly posted – what a great uplifting watch it was too and he comes across as a great lad who appears to have everything what is needed to make it in the game. I just hope Tony Pulis can exploit his enthusiasm and talent in the very near future so that he’s given every chance of becoming a star at Boro. This is the Championship and surely now is the time to give him a run in the team so that should Boro get promoted he’s ready for the next level and not overlooked and moved on.
Interesting piece in the Gazette re Pulis thoughts on Wing and Tav.
I’m sure plenty will disagree but I certainly admire TPs honesty.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/pulis-lewis-wing-marcus-tavernier-15365745
Reads article, shakes head, awaits 0-0 result at Stoke. I suppose the comments that…
“Wingy has done some fantastic things and some things that could have cost us in the second half, could have cost us the game, and he will learn”
– plus his assessment that…
“They have to understand they’re playing within a group and they are part of the group. Hopefully fingers crossed they keep pushing and pushing and get regular places.”
– basically means they’re not going to get their chance in the near future.
Doesn’t players missing endless chances to score also constitute “could have cost us the game” too?
Reading the article and video about Lewis Wing I see Ron Bone was the scout who found him and signed for Boro
Ron now sadly retired was one of the main assets for Boro where he was the chief scout.
Tony Mowbray thought so highly of him he had his office next to Ron at Rockliffe so he could keep close to him
Ron brought a lot of great players into Boro who are still playing league football
OFB
RR
I too am shaking my head and the fingers crossed but didn’t fill me with confidence either!
Agree that missed chances cost games too and as to hard they have to push………
Sad to say that I feel that 0 0 is a likely result today with Boro slipping down the table as those around us win.
UTB
Hopefully ‘Wingy’ will soon have that unpredictable enthusiasm coached out of him and we can look forward to having another solid midfielder in the team who can focus on keeping a clean sheet and soon add to the other 76 shots from outside the box that failed to trouble the opposition net.
I think I have to agree with your comments Werder.
In life you learn from making mistakes, but you have to be given the chance to make mistakes if you are going to learn from them. Just now, we don’t know if either of Wing or Tav are the kind of people that do learn quickly from their mistakes or not. We can look at the individuals that are picked and observe them repeat mistakes that cost us points and make our own judgement about whether these players have been learning from their mistakes over long years of first team selection at a variety of different clubs (and currently at ours) or not. But, at the end of the day it is the manager’s privelege to make selections based on the way he equitably (or otherwise) chooses to penalise players for costing the team in all senses.
My hope is that he will give our younger and less experienced players the chance to learn from their mistakes. With so many places on the substitute bench these days it is difficult to understand why anyone might choose not to use that as part of the development process. Including one or even both of Tav and Wing on the bench will help them and provide genuine options to change things round in a game that is not going our way.
And another outing for the “P” word! *also shakes head*
If we made a list of Players who have cost us points and another list for those who helped win us points then there are a few obvious ones at the top of both and I know that Wing wouldn’t be near the top of of the list costing us points because in the games he played in August we won and he also helped haul the sorry backsides of TP’s preferred choices out of the mire at Millwall.
I may be premature but such nonsensical utterances from a Manager (any Manager) are usually when they are struggling, losing the plot and bunker mentality sets in. Listening to his comments its becoming very clear that the reasons for selecting some players whilst ignoring others are illogical at best and blind bias at worst. He can get away with that while he keeps us in the hunt but since jettisoning Wing his results achieved without him “costing us in the second half” is lower Championship level.
I find it very disappointing after his down to earth and straight talking introduction to the club. I don’t know whats going on but something is developing a bit of a whiff. What it is I don’t know and it perhaps may not be TP but something else going on behind the scenes such as playing players to hold or to increase their perceived values so we can get some money for them in January instead of writing them off but at what cost?
Had the PPG since dropping Wing was reversed his comments would make sense but in black and white they don’t and the danger now is Wing being built up into something he isn’t and TP is digging a hole for himself. A few wins and the mumbling will continue in the background but a few defeats and a slide down the league and those mumblings will bubble to the surface. Something isn’t joining up for me just now and I have to admit that I have felt that way since the Play Offs and I’m not seeing or hearing anything just now that makes me think to the contrary despite wanting to.
Sad news for Sam McQueen and a cruciate injury
Powmill
Playing devils advocate , as much as I would like to see Wing and Tavernier in the match day squad at least, how long do you think certain elements of supporters would give them if they started to make mistakes that cost points? Especially if they didn’t seem to be learning from those mistakes.
I would like to see them at least have the chance to make those mistakes even though they didn’t make any when previousley given their opportunity.
That’s my point FAA.
The evidence we have so far this season is that when they have played we have accumulated more points than when the preferred alternatives have been selected. So whatever they have cost the team when they have played has been more than outweighed by what they have earned for the team.
The same rules should apply to senior players as much as to the inexperienced. So on balance you would think he would persevere with Tav and Wing at least on the bench to allow them to continue learning.
At the end of the day, it’s TPs choice and he will stand or fall by it. Let’s just hope we don’t just lose Chapman for lack of opportunity….
FAA
We are watching players who make plenty of mistakes on a regular basis, and we are told to accept it as a fact of life.
Are these two players so special that no mistake is allowed, are they to improve until they are as good as our strikers, or as effective as SD, by not playing, you are beginning to frighten me now.
My apologies: that “P” word was meant to be in reply to werder’s comments on the “Gazette” article.
Stoke City v Boro, a real glamour match for the neutrals. Score prediction:
Stoke City 1 – 1
I can’t wait to see the team Mr P picks, one goalkeeper, four centre backs and a lot of midfielders plus any one of our banjo wielders.But I live in hope. Mistakenly but I live in hope.
UTB,
John
New Wing Dynasty Fires Boro To Leave Potters Potless.
0-2
TP bases his team choices and player opinions based on seeing the squad everyday of the week. Backed up by scientific evidence, input from several coaches and years of managerial experience. In fact using all of the facts and information available to him.
Fans on the other hand only have 90 mins of play to base their opinions on. Perhaps if they were privy to the same insights they may have a different point of view.
Handily placed for an automatic promotion place, a winnable QF tie in the League Cup, some fans it would appear are only happy when moaning.
Not moaning GHW, just expressing thoughts and opinions and wishes like football supporters the length and breadth of this isle. The proof of the pudding as always is in the eating and I’ve no doubt at all that TP is making a lot of what he believes are the best decisions. The stats on form over the season can be dissected to support more than one opinion and, you are right that we don’t have the advantage of seeing the players day in day out. We do see the end results every week and it is quite understandable that questions be asked about the performances and lost opportunities as much as about advantages gained. We can never know what might have been “if only”, we can only know “what is”. However there is a lot of enjoyment to be had in speculating, opining, and discussing something with lots of people sharing a common interest, but different points of view. Sometimes a lot more enjoyment than travelling hundreds of miles to watch a turgid display such as served up against Rotherham.
THats an extremely logical and well put post GHW I like that
OFB
GHW, I understand your point but the tools that Pulis uses to select his team don’t matter a jot to the fans. They want to see their team winning and playing decent football and they expect the manager to do what is necessary to deliver that. Yes, they only have 90 minutes to arrive at their judgement based on what they see but surely their judgement is the only one that matters because ultimately the fans decide whether a manager stays or goes.
RR, I’m not sure if I’d go that far in wondering if Pulis’s motives are more than just his personal belief in what he regards most desirable. It seems to me that he gives more importance to players who carry out his instructions with regard to what they do out of possession rather than what they’ve achieved with the ball.
If what we’ve heard about his methodology that it begins with keeping a clean sheet and starting with a point, then it stands to reason he’ll mark players down for any perceived failures on that score. The fact that he believes he’s been proved right over the years in management probably means he’s not about to shift his emphasis.
Personally, I can’t see why in the Championship remaining so cautious with players who have the ability to cause the opposition problems is the better way. I’d also agree that it appears some players mistakes are judged more costly than others – it’s easier for a manager to blame inexperience of the younger players than start telling more senior players that they’re not good enough as they won’t get better.
It could be his particular psychology of man management but it would become increasingly harder to justify if Boro continued to struggle at the sharp end while he continued to avoid giving players who’ve looked threatening their chance. At some point you may discourage younger players into actually thinking they’re not good enough and their potential is not reached – especially when it’s at the expense of keeping faith with seemingly over-rated players who fail to deliver.
I mentioned earlier today that Tony Pulis likes his team to be ‘structured’ and that is why he considers Lewis Wing as a risk. But that’s what one gets with a structured team. Before the beginning of last season Steve Gibson promised that we would play with flair, and that’s what Gary Monk tried to do, but not successfully. We’ve now gone with a team who tried to play with flair under Mogga to a structured system under Karanka which worked in the Championship but failed in the Premier League. Then Gary Monk probably took the shackles off, but couldn’t find the right combination, so we revert to a system of one dimensional football under a manager who in most other professions would have retired by now. A man in his seventies is hardly ever going to learn new tricks, but likely to rely on what he considers has served him best in his past.
The concern now is that we have mostly a squad of players who have become stereotyped, and even if they do get us promoted to the promised land all we can hope for is another season similar to the last one under Karanka.
Is that what Middlesbrough FC has now become? A club with no identity to those of the past. A club who in the 50’s, a club in the Stan Anderson years, the Jack Charlton years, the early Riverside Revolution years who tried to play entertaining football even when losing. I’m wondering now whether we should have appointed a young manager with charisma and contacts within the game such as Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard, or dare I say it, Ryan Giggs as we did when appointing Bryan Robson. At least the football wouldn’t be as turgid as we’re experiencing now.
Despite coming from an old school, Tony Pulis only turned 60 last January and is therefore 9 years younger than Neil Warnock and 9 years older than Jurgen Klopp 🙂
And 11 years younger than Roy Hodgson !
OFB
As an exercise in self justification it was hilarious. This is a man who sold a very talented player to fund the purchase of a group of one paced nil value plodders, then picked same in turn, like a carousel. He admits that he had no influence in the young players taking us to the top of the league, but he was the one who dropped them, as soon as his steady Eddie’s joined the club, with disastrous results for our position in the league.
It begins to appear that he figured that we would get beaten in the cup,( that would be the flying water bottle ).
It shows what pressure can do, when someone in a gigantic hole(and still digging) can embarrass himself and the club by a diatribe so far off target that the only person spattered with mud was of course our illustrious manager.
We can all now accept the fact that no one gets on the pitch until he is the complete player, without blemish or stain. Pity about our strikers, but then logic always rears it’s ugly head.
From Vic’s Twitter feed:
“Our Stoke splattering squad: Randolph, Fry, Batth, Flint, Friend, Clayton, Howson, Besic, Downing, Braithwaite, Hugill”
No idea who’s on the bench.
Wing and Tavernier are on the bench.
Come on BORO.
Bench:
Lonergan, McNair, Saville, Wing, Tavernier, Assombalonga, Gestede.
Come on BORO.
Looks a 4-3-3 to me with Fry at right back.
Still not convinced by the make up of the midfield three and I would have left Howson out but hope to be proved wrong.
Despite all the machinations a win would take us top.
Looks like a flat back four then.
Same old, same old result
Delighted to see W&T on the bench. The right decision for me and one that gives TP genuine options if needed.
Not sure how this will play out this evening, we go top again if we win…. However I reckon I’m always wrong so I’m going for 2-1 to Stoke….😥
What can possibly go wrong………..
As mentioned earlier in the week, I’ll miss the game today as we’ve got dinner guests arriving shortly. As expected wing and Tav on the bench due to three of the usual players missing – hopefully they’ll get on the pitch and show what they can do. Looks as Andy says Fry at RB and hold-up Hugill getting the nod over Britt.
Hopefully it won’t be the proverbial nil-nil but since I’m not able to watch maybe it will be a classic 🙂
Proud of both sets of supporters. Absolutely respectful.
Got in as the game kicked off but pleased to hear the fans were respectful.
First half even steven. We have often scored second half so fingers crossed.
Well. TP calling all our bluffs now with both Wing and Tavernier on….
Good team performance for me. Boro have to play with that commitment every game and we will get promoted. The worry is they haven’t found that level consistently yet.
Agree with Sky that Batth was mom
I count that as a very good away point, I had forgotten the quality Stoke have in their ranks. Impressed with Batth, Hugill should have put that chance away and we could have been top, should be interesting to hear from people on how they thought Wing and Tavernier contributed when they came on.
Come on BORO.
Thought Tav did ok, stretching Stoke on the break once or twice. Didn’t look out of place.
Wing was quiet but playing a little out of position on the right.
I thought subbing Downing was a bit strange full stop as he he was again one of our better performers. I would have preferred Wing to have replaced Howson or even Besic to be honest.
Good to see them both though.
We played well and with a bit of luck, we could have won. Small margins but at least we were the better team.
Third. Hope we are in the top two by January and then strengthening. And semi-finals of the EFL Cup, then nice. We can well nice it in May.
Up the Boro!
Agree with ExMil, a good away point and Batth kept us in it. Our non striking strikers were at it again and Hugill had two good chances, one should have been put away. Butland kept Stoke in it as well.
Good to see Tav and Wing come on although felt Tav could have done a bit better.
Still we are third, for now, didn’t lose and if that was the position come May, then I would not be too upset.
Watched the game when I woke up. We looked like a quality team who managed a difficult match. Stoke were on a good run and its a difficult stadium with a noisy crowd and a bad wind. Stoke could easily have got on top but Boro simply didn’t allow them to get any momentum. I understand TP’s frustration at the forwards missing chances. It could so easily have been a classic 1-0 away win.
Batth looks to be a quality defender, Hugill’s hold-up play is top class but he never really looked like scoring. I hope that he gets one goal and then there could be a flood from him. Everybody else did their job. I’m glad that he bought on Tav and Wing because it shows proper respect for a good midweek performance. That’s just good man management of the squad.
UTB
Selwynoz
A decent performance, it was a bit of a shock for stoke when the two musketeers entered the fray late on, and their manager took immediate action by bringing on the big guns in an attempt to hold on to the point.
I know it’s a sore point, but their speed of thought and action is very upsetting for most opponents, and so it proved at Stoke.
Hugil seems an upgrade on what has gone before, and Baath? Seems the business.
I think that was a well deserved point, the Sky MOM was Batth but to me Butland did superbly and was the main difference.
Anyway, I thought a gander at what was happening to the players TP ”forced’ out of the club may be in order. Paddy is on the treatment table, Adama is a sub and I dont know what has happened to Ben Gibson, is he injured?
Ben is recovering from a hernia operation.
Ken & Plato really?
Disappointed TP having a go at Hugill for going down easy he says,when infact he was taking the brunt if their defenders abuse,
I say that because Downing time and time again bails out on tackles, one time early in the game he had the chance of intercepting and he would have had a free run on goal,but he pulled out.when he had the advantage.
Good result though, just gotta keep looking to improve .
As a former ref I think Hugill goes down too easy look at how many refs think so too and don’t give him the decision
OFB
Well, thats more like it.
To quote the sky commentator .. Boro are an effective unit.
Once they gel and TP assesses the strengths and weaknesses then I think we will be on the up.
Its not often I am optimist, but after last night I felt alot happier all round.
What I would like to see now,going into January is a settled team and formation, they’ve all had a chance to stake their claim,some more than others, we are I think about eight points down on what we should be, based on certain games.
I’m in favour of 352 system the players seem to perform better at it.
I can’t see us being troubled with a back three of Ayalla Batt and flint, we could force teams to go long with a strong five midfield,
Fry has time to developed he is a north and south defender ,but needs training on his hip movement ,on turning in and out,
Huggill I like he is perfect as a target its around him we need mobility, and that’s what we lack, look the fact is you are not going to change a player that is who he is,,if he never scores or can’t tackle .
The reason Tav and Wing are catching the eye is because they are playing to their instincts,
In watched a kid play for Woves today ,eighteen midfield brilliant on the ball running ,passing all over enjoying himself,
Like I said Tony decide.
I agree GT, the time has come for a settled side and despite his fear of heights, preferring to be as close to the ground as he can be when in touching distance of another player, I also like the way Highill can hold up the ball and play our more forward thinking players in.
So Boro ‘s trip to Stoke rather unexpectedly ended goalless, although it sounds like it wasn’t a bad performance from Tony Pulis’s team. Anyway, I didn’t see any of the game so can’t really say – but here’s a man who did, it’s Redcar Red’s match report…
https://diasboro.club/2018/11/04/stoke-0-0-boro/
As always RR an accurate summary of the game, thank you.
Much the same game I was wAtching 🙂.
I was surprised it was Downing hooked for Howson, but that said, TP played a blinder with selection, set up, motivation and intelligently changing it around when there was still plenty of time left to perhaps have grabbed a winner. More of the same please.
Thanks to Redcar Red for his excellent report, especially as I missed about 30 minutes of the first half because of a friend’s phone call from Australia. Also thanks to Werder and OFB on correcting me about TP’s age. My mistake in thinking he was in his seventies instead of his seventh decade. What does the advert say ‘should have gone to Specsavers’. Well, actually I did but wasn’t wearing my reading glasses. However, nice to see that Tavernier and Wing did get some game time, and also a much improved Boro display all round from what I saw. Pity though our finishing couldn’t be better. I agree that Batth kept Boro in the match, and that Butland kept Stoke in it also, but Hugill really should have scored, and the concern is that if it had been Assombalonga, Braithwaite or Fletcher none of them would have, although Bamford probably would have in that situation. C’est la vie.
Bamwho?
I was as disappointed as most when he (was?) moved on, but he is in the past for us now. Time to stop looking backwards now and to look forward with what we have and with what we might aspire to.
Very impressed with Danny Bathh, typical Boro would normally panic at the end and succumb to a Crouch header, but he held them together really well.
Interesting that TP had Wing play in the No 10 position.
Thanks first to RR for the pre and post match alternative view.
As has been said that was a good point away from home, however it was against a side that had not been playing very well at home and unfortunately when you take into account our Home form of two points and no goals since Bolton gifted us the three points back in the middle of September, one could argue that the performance was not good enough to get us where we want to be.
The Team as a whole played well, with Batth outstanding and surely he must keep his place against Wigan. whilst Clayton had a decent game, I thought that once he had been booked he was not as effective and lost out in the battle with Joe Allen who looked a nice player.
As RR said I think Besic looks less effective at times because of the lack of players and movement off the ball in front of him. Time and again you see him running with the ball beating opposition players that in reality he should not be doing, as he looks for the opening up ahead of him that is not made. Normally there are never sufficient players for him to make that through pass.
Hugill played well holding the ball up and is the best we have at that role which TP prefers and I think last night he did not get his share of the fouls that went both ways, however saying that and taking nothing away from Butland, he should of done better with a possible chipped shot, but that player is no longer with us.
George was certainly up for the game and along with Fry, both did well defending the flanks with the former getting forward.
The midfield is still a concern for me. We have brought in McNair, Besic and Saville at around 18 mil (if Boro had not walked from their offer for Besic) a lot of money in the Championship, all Mr Pulis´s choices I would assume and yet two were on the bench which should ask some awkward questions.
Tav and Wing did OK for me coming on when Stoke were pushing the game and Boro defending more deeply and I can see RR´s point of the interplay between the those two and Hugill. The big question is can Hugill score if he gets to play more and we can set up chances for him.
Wigan at home is now a must win match to keep us in the top six and probably more importantly keep the fans onboard. Mr Pulis needs to think long and hard and I believe go with a more positive forward passing team by including at least one of the two to start. Howson for me is just not contributing enough on a regular basis and should be on the bench at the moment.
Pedro
Although it might get me some criticism, I really think that both Wing and Tav should play, it’s not one very good player trying to do it all that we need, but the combined inter passing that seems to come naturally to the pair of them.
The word that best describes it is synergy. Individually they are OK, perhaps only a little bit better at best than some who seem more preferable in the Managers eyes but when playing together they understand one another. They anticipate, respond and react to things that otherwise seems to take two touches, a sideways pass here, a backwards pass there, slow down, a look up and the moment is gone, long gone in Boro’s case since August.
Goals from open play come from movement and catching the opponent out, we move the ball about with the grace of a dung beetle albeit not quite as quick which is why we need set pieces. Watching the Man City’s, the Liverpool’s etc and the pace and ferocity of an attack is a completely different planet from possessive passing for fear of losing possession that we are “treated” to. No wonder there is a clamour for Wing and Tav and even Hugill now who seems to be the “converter” or “enabler” for them.
Nice to see that Batth has been embraced into the set-up in a way Chambers wasn’t – quite. There were serious grumbles around the end of December 2016 that we were developing other teams’ players at the expense of our own, never mind how useful the loan system can be. We were happy to embrace Omeruo, weren’t we?
However. Now I realise what I didn’t then – such comparisons are flawed. If you judge the case in isolation, my argument holds, but one can never really judge football in isolation. It’s all about context. When the team is in freefall (2013) or lacking synergy that we once seemed to take for granted (2016), and when there’s a manager vs. out-of-favour players battle online (2013, 2016-17), you understand the frustration boiling over from fans who believe that if only the team hadn’t been unnecessarily tampered with, or if only the latest exciting arrival played, things would be very different.
It’s a case of latching on to whatever hope they can find when they see none. I still remember the clamour for Reach and L. Williams when Dyer and Ameobi came to the club. Never mind that Reach was injured, he was the next Ryan Giggs to some. It reminds me of something AV once said: “Everybody knows when you are out of the team, you get better by the week.”
Thanks for another comprehensive and apt report RR.
Pre-match many had this down as a 0-0 and I said that that would be a good result as I could not see us scoring. Well that’s how it turned out but not for the want of trying. Unfortunately our usual nemesis, lack of clinical finishing/composure, let us down again. If the two teams could get their act together in the final third then Stoke would be in the play-off spots and Boro would be clear at the top. All in all it was a good team performance and a deserved point taken from a Stoke team I think will be in the mix come the end of the season.
Batth was also my MoTM and it will be hard for TP to drop him after his last two outings so either Ayala or Fry are at risk.
Hugill held the ball up well and linked the play together nicely at times and clearly for me is the best option in that respect but, like his colleagues, cannot seem to finish when he really should do. I suspect that he did enough to keep his place against Wigan.
It was good to see Tavenier and Wing get on and for me did enough to at least keep their places on the bench which is more than likely given the injuries to Shotton and McQueen have effectively forced TP’s hand to their inclusion.
We now need to build on this display and ensure we take three points from the Wigan game.
Redcar Red,
A excellent report of another stalemate, how I wish our forwards show a little more guile but then maybe even Tony Pulis does. The young to start the next game or the tried and tested favourites
On to Wigan next week, it’ll be interesting to see the team he picks to play at home. Will it be yet another draw?
UTB,
John
Yes many thanks for Redcar Red’s in-depth match report for bringing me the story of what was possibly the best predicted score of the weekend. OK it’s a point away from home, which ordinarily would be a decent point but it’s come on the back of four home games without a win or indeed a Boro player scoring.
At least it sounded like the players worked hard but again it’s at the sharp end where matters still prove to be difficult. I guess Hugill is now the main man due to his ability to keep hold of the ball and wait for others around him to join in the act of solving the puzzle of putting that round thing in the square-shaped hole behind him. My observation from midweek was that would be easier with players in midfield who were looking to get in the opposition box instead of concentrating on stopping the opposition getting into their box.
Does a Tony Pulis team only play without risk or will we start to see a more dynamic midfield emerge to solve his problem of having non-scoring forwards? I guess we’ll see in the coming weeks – though just one more game before the next international break and a chance to regroup once more and ponder whether 14 points from a possible 30 is enough!
Braithwaite has not been at his best for a long time now. He started the season on fire but yesterday was difficult for him. His last touch or pass went wrong all the time.
wasn’t it a bit like that last reason, too. Started well and then disappeared. and finally left for France. The weather should not bee than bad for a guy from Denmark even one has Caribbean roots.
Up The Boro!
Hugill impressed me leading the line, the ball seems to stick to him an around very good performance which would have been excellent if he’d beaten Buckland.
Overall I thought we had the better chances, Fry’s header following the save from Hugill was another great opportunity to score.
Batth was excellent, very impressive considering it was his first start this season, I agree he’d be very unlucky to be dropped after that performance.
It wasn’t the most exciting game to watch but I think TP is doing an excellent job, he’s created a team which concedes little and is creating chances.
We just need to score some, sooner rather than later, draws won’t keep us I n the top six let alone the top two.
I think TP can compromise by having Randolph plus 7 defensive minded players and then play three Mavericks up front instructed to run, dragging defenders all over creating chaos and then supported by the likes of Friend, Clayts, Besic and Shotton/Fry/McNait when it permits. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing. With Braithwaite, Wing, Hugill, Tavernier, Assombalonga, Fletcher and Gestede there are plenty of options for the three even swapping them around depending on the opposition. Having a stranded Hugill or Gestede or Assombalonga isn’t working and isn’t about to any time soon. Against Palace and to a lesser but still productive extent yesterday the guile of Wing, the head down running of Tav and brute force of Hugill started working.
Oh dear, an horrendous mistake by th Wigan keeper to gift Leeds the lead.
We need Wigan to at least draw vs. Leeds to stay in top three.
Has the 3rd position been the lowest position for Boro this season?
Up the Boro!
I saw it as a mistake by Kone for not putting the ball into orbit.
Jordan Hugill ‘a fraction away from man of the match gong’ says Sky pundit Liam Rosenior.
The Echo Match Ratings:
5 Hugill: Criticised by his manager for going to ground too easily in an attempt to win free-kicks, and looked a shadow of the forward who shone for Preston.
We sre matches differently. I thought it was best game of Hugill so far and I would give seven.
Still, I like Assombalonga more. More likely to score.
Up the Boro!
Thanks for the in depth report RR.
Overall I enjoyed the game and thought we had by far the better chances to come away with 3 points. Although the Bein Sports commentator would have you believe Stoke were the better side and were unlucky as they dominated proceedings. Really?
Agree with those who had Batth as motm which suggests Boro were on the back foot for the majority of the game which I don’t think was really the case.
Good to see Wing and Tavernier on the bench and even better to see them get some game time. Tav was “busy” and gave the Stoke back line something else to think about and I thought Wingy was fairly quiet apart from delivering the pass of the night through to Tav who had a rush of something to the brain and blazed over.
So once again our finishing let us down but that is something that can be worked on. Like I said overall I did enjoy the game. What I didn’t enjoy however was the poor decisions from the man in the middle.
As RR mentioned in his report it was either a second yellow for Shawcross and a penalty or a booking for Howson. He gave neither. I’m biased and thought it was a penalty as Shawcross made no attempt for the ball and moved towards Howsons running line making contact. Soft maybe but he impeded Howsons run.
Yes we had a couple of chances to put the game away and failed to take them due to our incompetence but we should’ve had a penalty that the referee didn’t give due to his.
Hugill to start up front next Saturday for me. Will Tavernier and Wing feature at all in the match day squad let alone get on the pitch? I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t feature at all but I would be bitterly disappointed.
Thanks for the match report RR it’s as per your usual high standard and thank you.
This blog has excellent match previews from Werder, your in-depth reports and excellent talking pieces from Si’s Insights.
Coupled with interesting and well reasoned posts from all our bloggers it’s certainly a pleasant way to pass a Sunday afternoon or any other day.
I have noticed we seem to be attracting new posters which is excellent but I would ask that we all try and spread the word and share this excellent site for all Boro fans worldwide as the quality of the posts and editorial deserves a larger audience
Thanks to all who contribute it certainly brightens up my life
OFB
OFB,
Don’t forget the In2views.
UTB,
John
There’s two posts left to 300 and I think it would be fitting, given the discussion this week for one to say “Wing” …
…and one to say “Tavernier”
Hi Friends. As Batth had an excellent game, surely he deserves a place in the first team against Wigan. Question is who would we leave out. Well I like Ayala and would have him straight back into the team. That means that probably Fry drops out.
Ref TP is his contract up at the the of the season ?
I believe he signed for 18 months. This season end.
Southampton got hammered today, I would imagine the boards patience is getting a bit thin with Mark Hughes.
As they are drifting into a precarious position towards the bottom of the PL, I suspect the directors will be looking for a manager to ensure their survival in the top flight. Now who lives in the vicinity with a track record of saving clubs from relegation…….
Does Sam Allardyce live near Southampton 🙄
I don’t think so but I am happy to contribute toward his moving costs! 😉😎
Big Sam lives near Bolton
GHW
I’ve thought that since last season that it would be a shoe in for Southampton to take TP if they were to get in trouble
Let’s hope we’re wrong
OFB
TP has always struck me as a man of principals and so I can’t see him walking out in a job he had started and still to finish. Hope I am right.
But we have dropped down in the League. We are at the lowest position this season now, I think. We are the fourth and we have been in the top three all season so far.
And we havent won a cup this season, either. Time to release TP as the performances are not good enough?
Up the Boro!
Then there is Moyes and the regular turn up, Pardew. Has Conte relocated yet?
Interesting article in my Sunday paper about Man City. It relates to something we have touched on before.
There have been several chunters in the past from journos and opposition fans about how certain teams play. On the ancient blog I talked about the first time I saw Rafa’s Liverpool play in the 0-0 draw at the Riverside. They played very well but we couldn’t get going, every time we tried to play forward there would a little tug, niggle, obstruction stopping the flow.
All done high up the pitch, by different players so it wasn’t serious, not a booking but you couldn’t get any momentum.
Vic replied that it was a common discussion in the press box about Spanish teams. Barcelona have had that said about them so it is no surprise that people are looking at Man City. The paper called Fernandinho the smiling assassin, stopping people playing but with a smile on his face, always helping players up, never a bit of bother to ref, always high up the pitch.
How true it is I dont know, City just look too good for the rest to me.
Twas ever thus Ian.
I can recall when Boro were promoted to the First Division under Jack Charlton: apart from the occasional cup tie, I had only ever seen these top teams playing on Match of the Day. I remember the feeling of abject disappointment to discover that what made first division teams better than second division ones was the quality of their cheating more than anything else.They simply didn’t get caught in the act so often.
If these things do get discussed in the press box, why do the press not call these things out week in week out, instead of fawning over the elite. Its the same grudge I have over calling players like Ronaldo great. Any player as great as the media portrays, has no need to cheat. Same is true of the top teams, if they are that good, they should not have the need to cheat. Unless foul behaviour, however slight it may be, is penalised or called out, it is effectively encouraged. I’m all for retroactive punishment, so if the match day officials miss, or choose not to punish, repeated foul behaviour, offending teams should be docked a point once a threshold is breached.
I remember Revie and Shankly playing the appeal game. If players were going to miss a crucial match through suspension they would make a frivolous appeal to have them available.
I suppose we would all do it but the likes of us would an extra match added to the ban.
There is no reason why they authorities cant review decisions because if you watch Goals on Sunday with Kammie they highlight clear mistakes.
The truth is referees get the vast majority of results right, it is the bloopers that wind up fans.
Unfortunately the level of cheating or gamesmanship as it is euphemistically called at the top level of the game is destroying it as a competition. World Class players practice, dribbling, set pieces, heading, sprinting etc. but many also hone the art of cheating (even evidenced by winking with a smirk in some cases).
Our single season up there shocked me to see how bad and blatant it had become over the years made much worse by Officials terrified of making a judgement against the top six and the media backlash that would ensue. I think it even likely that there is an unwritten directive that if an Official upsets Manchelskiarsepool City then they will be ominous by their absence from big games for the foreseeable. For it to be so rife can only mean it is quietly permitted and almost encouraged by UEFA, FIFA and the FA in this country for the vested interests of the super clubs and their super earnings.
Leroy Sane in particular vexed me at the Riverside with his ridiculous cheating (amongst many others too many to list) but if its Boro or Huddersfield or a Burnley on the receiving end who cares. The fear of costing decisive points or qualification to the next round of a tournament to the Manchelskiarsepool set and trial by media and unwritten professional sanctions means that there are now in effect two sets of rules governing a football match.
“Big” teams cheating, fouling etc and not getting penalised by the officials. I’m amazed. When did this start happening?
Next you’ll be telling me that a referee was chased back 30 yards by half a dozen screaming,snarling players because he’d awarded a penaly against them and the footballing authorities took no retrospective action.
I’d be hard pressed to believe that would happen and nothing was done about it.
And yes I do have a long memory and I defiantly do hold a grudge!
And he didn’t send Jaap Stam off for the offence as he should have.
Powmill
My Palace-supporting colleague suggests his fellow fans have a very different view of TP’s principles.
Point taken Chris.
The mention of Liverpool FC had me delving into the immediate post war season and their subsequent fall from grace into the Second Division along with Middlesbrough in 1954. The fixtures for the 1946/47 season in all four divisions were a replica of those intended for the 1939/40 season which was abandoned after each club had played only 3 matches. As for the Boro, who many had tipped to be First Division Champions before those abandonments, they had only secured one point from the 3 matches. So when those 3 fixtures were replayed at the beginning of the 1946/47 season and Boro had won all three, I imagine some fans might have thought Boro had unfinished business to perform. The second of those wins was away to Liverpool, who in fact eventually became Champions that season.
In fact Boro were second after the Christmas Day draw away to Leeds United who subsequently were relegated. Boro had drawn the reverse fixture with Liverpool and their only home defeat had been 1-3 to Sunderland. Arsenal had been beaten 2-0 followed by a 5-0 away win at Blackpool in early December and with 12 wins and 5 draws in the 21 games, and with a total of 29 points at the half way stage, hopes were for a similar return in the second half of the season. In fact Liverpool came with a late surge to take the title with 57 points, one less than Boro’s hopeful projected total. In reality though Boro lost 6 of their remaining 11 home matches and finished mid table. They actually had only taken one more point from their last 7 matches. Whether that was because of a fine Cup run finishing with a 0-1 defeat at Burnley when they had been cheated in the home tie when a Burnley forward laying postrate on the ground had handled the ball for Burnley’s equaliser in the final minutes, who can say.
The next season saw Boro win three successive away wins in November, 5-0 at Grimsby, 4-0 at Blackpool and 7-1 at Blackburn. But that proved a false dawn with heavy a 0-7 thrashing at Highbury on Good Friday (perhaps the original Good Friday massacre) and then a 1-6 drubbing at Portsmouth in mid April. Typical Boro had slumped from 4th position in December to finish 16th.
1948/49 was a real scrap against relegation, especially up to the New Year when Wilf Mannion had asked for a transfer and refused to play. His self-imposed exile didn’t end unti after the 3rd Round Cup exit at Brentford, but I was particularly excited about the news that he intended to return for the relegation match against Preston on 15th January. I was at that game as Boro won 1-0 to momentarily relieve the situation, but 3 defeats and 2 draws in the next 5 matches had Boro at rock bottom. Things looked pretty grim as Mickey Fenton had retired just before those 5 matches and Boro made a bid for Jackie Milburn, but Newcastle wouldn’t budge but instead let us have their reserve centre forward Andy Donaldson for £17,000 as far as I can recall, which at that time seemed a huge amount. However his 6 goals in 14 appearances, 2 George Hardwick penalties in the Easter Monday clash with high-flying Newcastle, and a Jimmy Hartnett 🎩 in the relegation decider ensured Boro were safe.
The following season saw Boro again struggling second from bottom in early October, but my abiding memory was seeing a black player for the first time. His name was Lindeburg Lloyd Delapenha and he was instrumental in League Champions Portsmouth beating us 5-1 at Ayresome Park. Portsmouth went on to retain the title the following season, and of course Boro signed him just before the last game of the season. However Boro made a recovery in 1949 although by then Peter McKennan had usurped the injury prone Donaldson. With McKennan netting 15 goals and Alex McCrae, a £10,000 signing from Charlton, another 14 Boro finished a creditable 9th. This was the season when 53,802 attended the Newcastle fixture, the existing ground record for
Ayresome Park. Boro had won the Boxing Day fixture with a single goal from McCrae at St James’s Park and completed the double with a single goal from McKennan a day later, only the second time that Boro had completed the double over the Magpies for nearly 50 years.
I have previously documented the 1950/51 season when Boro topped the League after the 2-1 home win against Newcastle on Christmas Day. Boro had some outstanding wins that season before Christmas – Everton 4-0, Arsenal 2-1, Huddersfield 8-0, Blackpool 4-3 and Charlton 7-3 all at home, but the two outstanding away matches had been the 4-3 win at Wolves and the 3-3 draw at 2nd placed Spurs which even the London press had voted the match of the season. To say that it went downhill after the 0-1 defeat to 2nd Division Leeds in a fog bound Elland Road which should have been postponed, is probably a slight exaggeration as Boro were still second by mid March; but Boro only managed 2 draws and 6 defeats, one of which was a 0-6 trouncing at Derby, in a disappointing end to the season. However McCrae had scored 21 goals, Mannion 14 and Johnny Spuhler 13 after being converted from a right winger to a centre forward.
True to type the 1951/52 season reverted to being inconsistent for after beating Champions Spurs 2-1 and Burnley 5-0, they slid down to 20th by early December after which heavy successive away defeats to Burnley 1-7, Fulham 0-6 and Chelsea 0-5 had the alarm bells ringing in full volume. However Boro won 6 and drew one of their last 7 home matches, and also did the double over Newcastle at Easter both of which I was happy to witness, and also finished with a 4-0 thrashing of Wolves.
The Boro manager throughout that period had been David Jack, who had been the first player to score in a Cup Final at Wembley in 1926. He resigned at the end of the 1951/52 season, saying he had become disillusioned with the game. Boro then were on the lookout for a new manager and the club contacted the chairmen of both Carlisle and Grimsby about the young Bill Shankly, a former manager of both clubs. However Boro didn’t pursue their interest, and Shankly eventually became the manager of Huddersfield where he signed a young Dennis Law, and of course eventually to a floundering Liverpool who were now a Second Division club.
Boro have had some good managers in their time, but what if they had appointed Bill Shankly? With Bob Paisley, a former wing half with the all conquering Bishop Auckland team, he started a dynasty at Liverpool at a time when Boro were their equals. Could he have done the same at Boro, who knows? But Boro instead appointed Walter Rowley who resigned after three seasons through ill health, and oversaw Boro’s relegation along with Liverpool in his last season. I’ll delve into those three seasons and Boro’s remarkable record against Liverpool in the ensuing years where Boro went undefeated against the Merseysiders for eleven matches.
Meant to say Jimmy Hartnett’s 🎩 was against Sheffield United.
Also the first Wembley FA Cup Final was in 1923, not 1926 although Bolton won it in both those years.
Watching Leicester playing at Cardiff was probably the most emotional time for an English team, since Manchester United played a delayed FA Cup tie against Sheffield Wednesday 13 days after the Munich air disaster. Both such terrible tragedies.
Following on from Ian’s comment…
Our record against Pool over the years at the Riverside is a good one. I have the 2-1 win in 1995, the one that took us into 6th, to thank for virtually completing my conversion from passive observer of Boro to fan.
After that?
3-3 (A silver-haired Italian notches a hat-trick on his debut while our defence ships a few to the Spice Boys)
2-1 (First-half goals from Hignett and Vickers are enough to send us to the League Cup semi. Hopes that it would be a new dawn are quickly squashed by a 0-1 reverse to bottom club Saints and a points deduction)
2-0 (LOVED this one. Merson from the spot, Branca with his first touch, two goals, determined defending, not many chances for Evanspool, the League Cup final beckoned.)
1-3 (The most unexpected of reverses. We were unbeaten in 11 having just beaten United at Old Trafford and Pool were having their worst season in several years. But that Boxing Day, they clicked. Vegard Heggem – who? – made a mockery of our supposedly rock solid defence two minutes from the end. We didn’t win again until the middle of March.)
1-0 (A second half Brian Deane goal was enough in a lucky win. Consecutive defeats to Leicester and Villa then set the tone for a topsy turvy season.)
1-0 (Another lucky victory, but one to be prouder of. El Tel’s arrival had installed confidence and more of a workrate into the Boro ranks. The only goal came when Karembeu pounced to tap home after a shot was spilled.)
1-2 (A better performance than either of the previous home league fixtures against the Reds, but all the pressure and pressing didn’t bring the end product it deserved. All while Heskey and Riise gobbled up what chances came their way – by the time the future Boro & England manager scored his first for us, it was no more than a consolation.)
1-0 (Momentary revenge. Gareth scores again, ends Liverpool’s unbeaten run – but at the end of the day, we finish mid-table while they finish amongst the top five.
0-0 (Dour stuff. All I remember is an unpunished foul from Queudrue.)
2-0 (Again, a favourite. Clinical finishing from Riggott and a possibly offside Bolo Zenden buries Rafapool while we thrive in Europe too. As always, we couldn’t keep it up.)
0-0 (The late Ugo is sent off in a nondescript season opener.)
0-0 (Southgate’s first game against Pool as manager. Again, nondescript.)
1-1 (Boateng’s early goal is cancelled out by Torres.)
2-0 (What an oddity. In a season where Rafapool can barely lose and Boro can barely win, an own goal and Tuncay bury the Reds. We later go down.)
0-3 (Seven years later. The PL’s changed a lot and we haven’t kept up with the times. Kloppspool’s casual demolition of us, later repeated at the end of the season, speaks volumes about our lack of appropriate preparation and experience.)
I felt like I was going down with the Riverside bug yesterday but seem to be once again match-fit today. Boro face Wigan on Saturday in the last match before yet another international break with many at the Riverside hoping there will be goals on the menu. Tony Pulis has spoken last week of wanting to build something on Teesside like he did at Stoke – though he’s aware that may well depend on him gaining promotion this season. Anyway, here’s my take on events with this week’s discussion blog article…
https://diasboro.club/2018/11/06/2018-19-week-13-pulis-looks-to-keep-promotion-on-the-menu/