| Middlesbrough | Derby County | ||
| ▮ Ayala | 60′ | Vydra | 13′ 47′ (pen) 63′ |
| Possession Shots On target Corners Fouls |
59% 16 2 11 12 |
Possession Shots On target Corners Fouls |
41% 13 8 6 10 |
Ram Raid Rocked Riverside
Bright winter sunshine lit up the Riverside on a cold and freezing afternoon as Derby and Gary Rowett attempted to end a ten game winless jinx at the Riverside. Both sides looked fairly well matched on paper at least judging by their respective league placings but the Rams have a game in hand and all Boro’s victories were largely against the bottom feeders so this afternoon was going to be a real test for Garry Monk.
Boro were without the suspended Howson and Bradley Johnson was missing for Derby due to a Hamstring which pleased me personally because I always felt he was a real nuisance any time Boro faced him. It was the first time since that Brighton game that Nugent would be back at the Riverside, hopefully he would make an appearance but if it was to be then the hopes also wished that it was to be an ineffective one. Gary Rowett’s men have been hard to beat on their travels this season suffering just two defeats in their last ten away days.
The team news was that Grant was only fit enough for the bench (I would have thought either you are fit or not fit?) so Forshaw as expected started as did the forgotten Clayts, recalled from the wilderness in an entirely new look midfield for Boro. Surprising for some Johnson had kept his starting berth with Paddy and Adama on the bench. Nugent was in the starting line-up for Derby a selection we would later live to regret. As the teams came out the winter sun had dipped and there was now a decidedly icy feel in the air.
The opening 13 minutes saw some of the best football from Boro for a long time with balls down the flanks played into the Rams box repeatedly. The one sided dominance was such that it looked like Derby were in for a torrid afternoon. Carson pulled off a reflex save from Britt to prevent Boro taking a deserved lead. Then Derby broke free from the onslaught down the their right wing. Gibson came across to help out Fabio but instead of shielding, clattering or tackling the attacker rounded Ben with ease, played a through ball between Fabio and Clayts to Vydra past Forshaw and a quick one two with Nugent saw the ball in the back off the Boro net totally against the run of play. Fast, slick, pacy and powerful football, not a dithering moment or backwards pass in the entire build up, not even a lumped in cross just on the ground direct football.
That single solitary goal knocked the stuffing out of Boro, hopes, belief and confidence just visibly drained from the faces of the Boro players after that sickening blow to an otherwise very positive start. When Boro restarted the game Nugent went flying into the Boro half chasing the ball with vigour resulting in Ayala clattering his former team mate and taking a yellow for his troubles. If it wasn’t bad enough conceding you would think we could restart the game with a bit of drive. Derby and Nugent in particular knew that we like to pass the ball around like pensioners playing pass the parcel at an incontinence fund raiser. Hassle, pressurise and confuse by closing down quickly and the floor becomes very wet around those in possession.
The next 20 minutes or so saw Boro looking sheepish, plenty of possession and lofted crosses but not with the style and swagger in those first opening minutes. Derby were not going to push us too much and seemed happy and content with their one goal advantage. Carson must have wasted over 5 minutes himself just taking goal kicks yet the Officials seemed oblivious to the time wasting. Fair play to him, Derby hadn’t won at the Riverside in 17 years and this was an opportunity not to let slip.
The last ten minutes of the first half saw Boro start to shake off their woes and begin firing on all cylinders again as they ended the half in the same manner in which they had started. We possibly saw some of the best Boro build ups and moves this season yet we were a goal behind. Surely after a half time team talk, extra application, and determined focus we would come out and grab an equaliser and push on. We had all the possession and were by far the better side it was just a matter of time.
I don’t know what happened in the Boro dressing room at half time but it clearly didn’t gee them up or have them coming out fired up. If I was a betting man my money would have been on them taking a nap because they fell asleep straight from the off. Braithwaite dawdled and passed back (which was something we actually excelled at all afternoon) why? I have no idea, I actually think he was confused and hadn’t realised we had changed ends and were still shooting towards the opposite goal. It wasn’t just a bad back pass it was unbelievably unnecessarily stupid beyond belief. It was the sort of ball that would have Far East bookmakers launching a frenzied investigation had there been a huge bet on Derby scoring in the 46th minute. Nugent raced on to that suicide ball, played in Vydra who was up ended by the already booked Ayala. Straight Red card most of us feared yet he stayed on the pitch thankfully much to the annoyance of the away support.
The resultant penalty was despatched with confidence by Vydra for his and Derby’s second of the match. At this point Ayala had become a serious liability especially when considering his grappling and flailing arm display at Leeds just 6 days previously. GM had to remove him from the fray and put on Dael Fry yet he somehow didn’t see what 23,000 odd could see was going to happen. We know that when Dani is on fire he is brilliant but we also know that he has his off days and with it the odd rick in him. This penalty wasn’t of his making, that blame lay squarely at the feet of Braithwaite but to remain on the pitch was about as fortunate as GM and us Boro fans could have wished for. Take the good fortune and get him the heck out of there surely. Bizarrely Ayala remained on the pitch which left me surprised and shaking my head at the gullible naivety of GM.
I didn’t have to wait long before the absolute bleeding obvious happened and headless Dani clattered into a stupid challenge over the half way line in the Derby half to give the Ref the easiest second yellow and sending off decision he will ever have to make in his entire career. Now 2-0 down and down to ten men and to rub salt in the wounds it was Nugent who was the justifiably aggrieved party picking himself off the floor.
As Boro resorted to default passing sideways and backwards ever more so it was Nugent again who chased a lost cause down the Derby right forcing Fabio to try and find Randolph with a rushed back pass only for the ROI stopper to slice his kick and present Vydra with the opportunity to smash it past him for his hat trick. My hope is that if Randolph was going to drop a clanger then it may as well have been in this game because there was absolutely nothing from the moment the second the half kicked off that made us hope that Boro would mount any further threat. It was a series of balls back to Randolph interspersed with the odd Forshaw Cryuff turn to nowhere before then passing back or sideways.
All momentum, ingenuity, organisation and discipline had gone. Fry came on too late to shore up a pitiful back line let down by a dysfunctional midfield and poor Britt was isolated and alone. Downing and Fabio tried and along with Christie showed some effort but from the opening brilliance to sheer abject garbage was beyond the effort of just three individuals. The Derby fans oleyed every pass as Randolph had to save further Boro blushes. Adama had come on but it was too little too late. Bamford too was brought on but again too little too late. The lack of in-game management meant that instead of changing things around we just continued rolling it out from the back putting ourselves straight back into trouble.
There is no way a manager can be held responsible for a player losing his head and being unprofessional but having been given a get out of jail card free and not hooking him is culpable. Interestingly I had said earlier in the week about Braithwaite looking a different class at times but as yet there is just something that I’m not quite sure off, well after that back pass he would have been hooked within seconds and replaced immediately by me. I’m sure our previous Manager would have done that and probably start speaking to him again by next Easter if he was lucky.
It started brilliantly; it clicked but fell apart and derailed all too easily and quickly. Another team at the sharp end of the table that we fail to beat and worse still let humiliate us. To me this isn’t just about this one game, there is a pattern emerging and one that after 19 games of a clunky, spluttering, “time to gel” season is not a coincidence nor a series of unfortunate events. Team selection, tactics, devoid of a settled plan or pattern is blindingly obvious. A Leeds fan said (very smugly) to me last week that I shouldn’t get so worked up and expect so much, Boro have a manager who will keep us in the top half, even top third but hasn’t the ability to go any higher. I think he is right and the more I reflect upon our season I’m convinced he is. Unless we are playing the bottom six sides we are totally out of our depth and Bolton apart and periods of Hull I haven’t seen anything to convince me that my smug Leeds colleague is wrong.
This was the third draft of the match report, believe me I had to edit out huge swathes of observations and tone it down before settling for this version. The team, tactics and direction simply fell apart and whilst certain individuals undisputedly let the team, manager and fans down today I suspect it was symptomatic of a deeper underlying cause. I have seen it before and I know it will have to wait until it becomes ridiculously unbearable but something has to change, no doubt it will as usual be too late.
My MOM was Nugent, by far the best Boro player on the pitch, just a shame that he was playing for Derby, at least the Boro fans showed their class and gave him a good ovation when he was subbed.
Boro hope to ram home advantage
After the arguments last week of whether Leeds was still a derby game, there is no doubt that the game on Saturday is definitely the Derby game. In midweek, Boro got their promotion aspirations back on track following the disappointing display last Sunday at Elland Road with an improved performance against Birmingham. Admittedly the Blues were possibly the least effective side to turn up at the Riverside this season and Garry Monk’s team did enough to get the job done without overly impressing.
The Rams should prove a much sterner test this weekend as they currently sit level on points with Boro just behind on goal difference but having played a game less. We now know Boro can generally overcome the opposition at the foot of the table and happily the current bottom six have all been defeated by our expensively assembled team with 13 goals knocked in. Boro have fared less well against teams in the top half with just the Blades being put to the sword early in the season – the other six games saw four defeats and two draws with just 3 goals in those 7 games. Is that telling us something? Probably, but maybe it’s only telling us that Boro are failing to overly trouble teams that are not low on confidence and ability.
Despite the win over Birmingham and signs that Boro had actively tried to be more adventurous going forward, the team failed to go on to the next level against limited opposition. Indeed, they actually did what I suspected and mentioned in the match preview after scoring – they relaxed and took their foot off the gas and seemed to lose their initial intent as the Blues appeared to get back in the game before a sublime pass from Fabio and a clinical finish from Assombalonga meant the points were staying on Teesside. Boro will not have a chance to win on Saturday unless they keep at it for the whole 90 minutes – this is what we need to see against the better teams. Derby’s form going into the game at the Riverside is pretty good – slightly better than Boro’s with 13 points from the last 18 and usually a couple of goals in the opposition net.
| Middlesbrough | Derby County | ||
| Garry Monk | Gary Rowett | ||
| P18 – W8 – D5 – L5 – F24 – A15 | P17 – W8 – D5 – L4 – F26 – A20 | ||
| Position Points Points per game Projected points |
6th 29 1.6 74 |
Position Points Points per game Projected points |
7th 29 1.7 78 |
| Last 6 Games Birmingham (H) Leeds (A) Sunderland (H) Hull (A) Reading (A) Cardiff (H) |
(H-T) 2:0 (2:0) W 1:2 (0:1) L 1:0 (1:0) W 3:1 (2:0) W 2:0 (1:0) W 0:1 (0:0) L |
Last 6 Games QPR (H) Fulham (A) Reading (H) Leeds (A) Norwich (A) Sheff Wed (H) |
F-T (H-T) 2:0 (1:0) W 1:1 (0:1) D 2:4 (0:2) L 2:1 (0:1) W 2:1 (1:0) W 2:0 (1:0) W |
Like many relegated clubs, Derby County have struggled to regain their top-flight status after they parted company with the so-called elite clubs just over 15 years ago. The post-millennial Derby lost their Premier League status in 2002 after six seasons at the top table, which saw them have three different managers in Jim Smith, Colin Todd and finally former Villa boss John Gregory – it was also incidentally the season in which former Boro striker Fabrizio Ravenelli and soon to be Boro striker Malcolm Christie were the club’s joint top scorers with nine a piece.
Relegation saw Derby’s financial problems mounting with debts approaching £30m, which were mainly owed to the Co-op Bank. The bank appeared quite co-operative in striking some kind of deal with potential owners, John Sleightholme, Jeremy Keith and Steve Harding – whereby if they could stump up £15m, the club would be placed into receivership and subsequently sold to the three men for just one pound each. This deal cost many creditors a considerable sum of money, including the former chairman, Lionel Pickering, who had taken control of the club shortly before previous owner Robert Maxwell made his final drop in the ocean and was instrumental in the move to Pride Park. Pickering’s loss proved pride does come before a fall as he got dropped in it when he lost £12m thanks to this deal – with significant shareholder and Derby supporter Peter Gadsby also taking a hit too.
The £15m later transpired to be a loan from a company called the ABC Corporation based in Panama that would charge an annual interest of 10%. The new directors, dubbed the ‘Three Amigos’ by supporters, claimed (in what is becoming somewhat of a familiar story) they had no idea of the identity of those who had loaned them the money – though a later investigation by the journalist David Conn (yes him again) claims that the most likely source was Michael Hunt, the former Nissan UK managing director, who in 1993 was sentenced to eight years in prison for his role in the UK’s largest ever tax fraud. In any case, they had engineered a deal to gain them control of the club for just three pounds.
Clearly the financially struggling club needed astute new management to turn them around, so it appears somewhat surprising that former barrister and coroner Sleightholme invited his friend, the Glaswegian ‘businessman’ from the Outer Hebrides called Murdo Mackay to the party. You may have thought any new appointments may have been closely scrutinised but it apparently went unnoticed that Mackay’s history included being a director of five companies that were struck off for failing to submit accounts, personal bankruptcy after his recruitment agency MMK went bust and the liquidation less than a year previous of his venture ‘Inside Soccer Recruitment’ that left the tax man and creditors owed nearly £160,000. Mackay ended up in the role of Director of Football as he’d apparently taken his coaching qualifications whilst working as a player’s agent, though his relationship with manager George Burley was frosty as he was accused of trying to interfere with team matters, which caused Burley to eventually quit his position.
Though it was in regard to the repaying of the £15m loan that caused the most outrage – Pride Park was sold to the to the ABC Corporation and in return was then rented back to the club for £1m per year. It later came to light following a three-year investigation by Derbyshire Police that Murdo Mackay, along with one of the one pound buyers, Jeremy Keith and long-time club Finance Director Andrew McKenzie did a secret deal shortly after the takeover without board approval to sell the stadium in which they were all personally paid £125,000 plus VAT in commission. They then hid this deal by routing the payment from Derby County to a third-party company using a false invoice for the combined sum of £440,625. Mackay and McKenzie were subsequently sentenced to three years in prison for conspiracy to defraud, with Jeremy Keith sentenced to 18 months for false accounting.
After this shabby affair, millionaire property developer and former shareholder, Peter Gadsby led a consortium to buy out the club in 2006. After the takeover, Gadsby and his consortium looked for a manager who could rebuild the weakened Derby squad, which had just one recognised striker, who we now know as Karren Brady’s husband, Paul Peschisolido. The man they decided on was that firework of a character Billy Davies, who is best not returned to when lit in case he explodes in your face unexpectedly. The consortium also started to clear some of the club’s debts, which somehow had risen to over £50m, as well as returning ownership of Pride Park back to the club – they even still had a bit of loose change to provide Davies with a respectable transfer budget. It all paid off when Davies finished in third place and then defeated West Brom in the Play-off final to secure promotion to the Premier League.
However, the joy of Derby’s return to the top-flight was short-lived as the club had a poor start to the season. Games 13 saw the unlucky Billy Davies seemingly engineer his own dismissal by ‘mutual consent’ after he went off unexpectedly following a rant against the board over poor signings. Though his team had shipped 31 goals in those opening games and their form was so bad that they even only managed to beat Newcastle 1-0, which would actually turn out to be their only win of the season. In fact so confident were bookies Paddy Power of their inability to escape relegation that they had already paid out to punters who had backed them for the drop after only five games following an inept 6-0 defeat at Liverpool. Such was the fans anger at the board’s apparent lack of investment in the team that October saw CEO Trevor Birch (who you may remember as the Leeds former CEO) forced out, shortly followed by Peter Gadsby who was subsequently replaced by the former Hull City owner Adam Pearson – though rumours of American buyers putting together a bid may have played a part in their decision to leave.
Former Wigan manager Paul Jewell was named as Davies replacement and brought in nine players in the January transfer window, including defenders Alan Stubbs and our own Danny Mills, as well as Robbie Savage. Though by the time the window had closed the club had once again new owners after they were purchased by an American group called GSE – that stands for General Sports and Entertainment – though it’s not clear which half of that name Derby fell into.
The American consortium, which subsequently changed their name to North American Derby Partners, were owned and run by Andy Appleby, who may well have reached out to Derby supporters that think the grass is always greener, as one of his ventures was as an exclusive marketing partner of AstroTurf – where not only is the grass greener, it’s also long-lasting – albeit fake. Though it seems the group were serious investors after putting together a consortium to finance the $100m takeover of Derby – whether some of the American investors that pitched in ended up wondering when they were going to get to go to the Baseball Ground instead is only conjecture though. Appleby claimed he had passion for sports and it’s what keeped him going by declaring “It’s kind of like the Confucius quote: Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life.” – something that many a footballer appear to have taken way too literally for my liking!
Adam Pearson remained as chairman and he proudly boasted after the American takeover “This is a significant day in the history of this club and the takeover adds new financial firepower, underpinning a long-term plan to establish Derby County as a major player in the Premier League” before adding “The long-term aim is to establish the Derby County brand worldwide… and obviously develop a squad which over the coming seasons is renowned as a Premier League force.” Despite these words and the arrival of new players, a manager and owners, The Rams sheepishly became the first Premier League club to be relegated in March – six games before the season ended with the lowest points total ever of just 11. They also equalled the historic 108 year Football League record of Loughborough of only winning one game in a season.
Ten years after the American owners first arrived with their vision, Derby supporters are still waiting to be force or even minor disturbance in the Premier League. The American dream eventually ended in 2015 when they sold the club to new owner Mel Morris for an undisclosed fee. He’s a Derby fan and entrepreneur who made his fortune through the famous computer game Candy Crush and has also taken on the role of Chairman. Since relegation managers have come and gone with the – try the son of club legend in Nigel Clough – try the former player and assistant manager in Steve McClaren – try the apprentice of one of the world’s best coaches in Carlo Ancelotti’s right hand man Paul Clement – try the manager that got a local rival promoted in Nigel Pearson – try that man again we tried before in case he’ll try harder this time in Steve McClaren – finally, shall we try a former player again? in Gary Rowett.
Back onto the Saturday’s game and team selection issues for Garry Monk to ponder. The return of Fabio instead of George Friend was a resounding success as he put in a MOM contending performance. Christie naturally returned after missing out for the first time due to suspension so no surprises there. Next up for suspension is Howson, who also put in a good performance against the Blues – it’s likely that he will be replaced by Forshaw to partner a creaking Leadbitter in the engine room. The question on many supporters lips is whether matchday squad stranger Adam Clayton will make an appearance on the bench – if he doesn’t then his future at the club must be seriously in doubt. A rare appearance of Patrick Bamford from the bench showed he can offer a real threat to the opposition and on that form he appears to have been much underused. Given Johnson’s average performance it must be worth moving Braithwaite back to the left and playing Paddy in the number ten role where he can offer the team his vision. I suspect Adama will need to be content with a place on the bench but he needs more than five minutes on the pitch to loosen up his coiled springs.
So will Boro be butted out of the playoff zone by the Rams making a charge up the table? Or will Derby be put out to grass as they sheepishly return back to the East Midlands having been fleeced of the points by Boro? As usual your predictions on score, scorers and team selection – plus will a smouldering Clayton come off the bench all charged-up and see red as he quickly heads back down the tunnel for a cooling shower?
00
Eye eye!
Look into my eyes says OFB as Derby run out.
UTB,
John
I think we will see the same team as Wednesday with the exception of Foreshaw replacing the suspended Howson. Clayton on the bench as cover and probably as replacement for Leadbitter later in the game.
This will probably be a tight and possibly nervy game and if we are to get anything from it the Riverside crowd will need to play their part. It seemed a bit subdued to me on Wednesday for much of the game.
It’s difficult to call but OFB’s 00 is probably about right.
Crowd 22,222.
CoB send me back to Spain with a smile on my face and another three points. 😎
Townies 3 Woolly Backs 0
Boro v Derby from 1997 onwards…
6-1 (1), 1-1, 1-4 (2), 4-0 (3), 5-1 (4), 1-0, 2-0 (5), 2-1, 2-0, 2-2 (6), 1-0 (7), 2-0 (8), 2-0 (9).
For the most part, impressive…
(1) Ravanelli’s third and last Boro hat-trick. Having been unlucky not to go ahead in the first twenty minutes or so, Derby’s defence falls asleep completely in the final ten minutes.
(2) A former supermarket shelf-stacker nets a brace for the opposition. It certainly won’t be the last we (or, alas, the Boro treatment table) see of him…
(3) One of Boksic’s good days.
(4) Carlos Marinelli runs the show and scores a brace. He never does that again.
(5) One point off the top on the final whistle. “Er… can you pop into the boardroom for a moment, please, Gareth?”
(6) A Lukey Juke Boro brace. Something we also never see again.
(7) Nate Chalobah’s one and only Boro goal. His contribution was underrated.
(8) Paddy Bam Bam, Leads’ roar, a high octane pressure game, Aitor punching the air in the stands, joint top… seriously, what more could you want?
(9) We’ve got AA, Friend… and are five points clear. What could possibly go wrong? #TypicalBoro
Boro 1 – 1 Derby. The crowd need to wake the team up as they come out so we don’t sleepwalk for the first ten minutes. Didn’t Tuncay once score a blinding goal against Derby?
UTB,
John
He did. That was at the Pride Park turned iPro, mind. The black and white Riverside replica.
Hmmmm. Errrrm.
RR’s match report from the Leeds game suggests a Britt, Bamford, Traore combo up front was effective.
I can’t see GM playing all three but certainly if it’s guile we’re lacking then Bamford is the best answer. Or play Traore at number 9 tell him not to put foot in our own half.
2.1 to us.
I think all of us that saw the game the other night would agree that Bamford deserves a run out ahead of Johnson Fletcher or Tavernier
Dave Parnaby who has seen Tavernier for the last few years thought he was struggling the last two games and needed a break
It will be interesting to see if Clayton makes the squad on Saturday.
If we see Forshaw replacing Howson and Baker on the bench then that would perhaps confirm rumours of a bust up between Clayton and Monk
I agree with your comments re Bamford and hope the rumours about Clayton are wrong as I still believe at times we need his experience and commitment as it’s a very long season and GL is not getting any younger.
I said to my brother before Wednesday’s game that I thought Tavernier needed a rest and interesting to hear that some one who knows him much better than me was of the same view. He, like all youngsters, will need careful management to aide his development.
I like RR idea of playing Bamford with SD central and Braithwaite on the left or alternatively Bamford central and Downing on the right which should give the Rams something to think about.
I have suspicions over Cyrus Christie for tomorrow. He took a hell of a clattering on his knee and I was both shocked and surprised that he was left on the pitch especially as we didn’t look like losing in that Birmingham game. I hope it doesn’t come back to haunt us and prove a costly lesson in injury management. I guess he knows his own body but he never looked 100% after that collision.
Previously I mentioned the list of contenders or pretenders in some cases to the LW berth and truth is nobody has impressed to the point where they cannot be left out. There has been a cameo from Johnson complete with a goal and even Tav but it isn’t totally believable and convincing from anyone right now. Britt has nailed the Striker spot. His apparent clumsy touches or running wide may be a foible but his goal rate makes him likely to be the most prolific striker at the club since before many of the season card holders were born. All he does is score goals, well maybe, but in fairness he does run and chase as well but even if his sole contribution were those goals that’s enough for me.
Downing has nailed a starting berth and appears born again and some of that must go down to GM despite his Summer faux pas over the most experienced player he has at the club. It takes a brave man to admit he was wrong. Braithwaite looks to be real class at this level although I still have a little question mark in that he certainly has skill and looks the real deal at times but I just want a little bit more to be fully convinced yet. Reservations aside he should be a starter. So that leaves three nailed on starters at the sharp end, Stewy, Britt and Braithwate.
Traore we know can be world class or simply calamitous, the worry is in wondering what you are going to get. Based on that, for me starting is still some way off but never say never especially if he is instructed that his own 18 yard box is strictly verboten! Fletcher to me is a kid that is developing and I would put him at the same level as Tavernier, its not his fault that somebody valued him at millions of pounds and someone else was prepared to pay it. Personally I would ship him out on loan in January (Barnsley again?) to build his experience and confidence and the same goes for Tav who I feel is close but just needs to get some more games and with it experience.
Johnson started like a house on fire when he arrived but is somewhat of a smoldering ember now. He may get back in the groove but of late there hasn’t been much in the way of any magic from him. He is however reasonably solid in terms of game time albeit at a lower level and can drop into LB (maybe his future berth I suspect). I would hang onto him for now but definitely hasn’t done enough to be a starter.
That leaves Paddy, the nearly forgotten man. Of course I’m wrong, but I have a niggling suspicion that the clammering from the message boards had as much to do with his inclusion and introduction on Wednesday as the Manager’s personal choice. I know I’m wrong because a Manager who see’s his players each week in training couldn’t be so blinkered even a poor one. Whatever the rationale for preferring others before him, Wednesday night makes it extremely difficult for GM as an absolute minimum not to afford him a seat on the bench. If he does I still think that would be the wrong decision. This current Boro side lack spark and a creative force with a footballing brain. Intelligence and ability do not always go hand in hand with footballers but I firmly believe that in Bamford GM has the Player to resurrect the spluttering season, keep the pressure off and even go as far as to be the difference between promotion and scraping into or even missing out on the Play Offs.
Managers can be stubborn but GM has shown with Downing Tav and even to a lesser extent Grant that if you do the business you earn your place. There have of course been some eccentric contradictions to that by continually giving game time to a perhaps decent player in theory but who hasn’t earned his place judging by performances. It has probably rightfully cost some their place as in say Baker and surprisingly Clayts but Fletcher does seem to be a personal favourite as has Howson who now looks to be coming good.
The logic with Fletcher is probably the same as Howson but most of us don’t see that special something just yet. Bamford on the other hand lit up a dark depressing Riverside in his brief stint and it looked to me like the rest of his companions in red enjoyed having him on the pitch. He slotted in, he made a difference, the others mentioned above have done OK in fits and starts but not convinced me. Paddy did and I think he could be the missing link to finally achieving “Pace and Power”. I hope GM thinks the same and if given his opportunity that Paddy proves his point.
So thats Britt up front but out of Braithwaite Downing and Bamford I’m inclined to put Downing central, Paddy out Right and Braithwaite Left. Paddy and Cyrus linking up, Braithwaite and Fabio linking up, Stewy pulling strings centrally, playing killer balls and Britt just doing nothing but score goals. The final piece of the jigsaw I believe.
RR
Sounds good to me
RR
Just a thought, but why would we need to have Traore anywhere near our penalty area.
His talents are explosive speed, best used in the opponents half, in the centre of the field of course.
Who knows?, it might keep the opposition out of our half?
Plato
In the last minute against Birmingham Adama collected a headed clearance about 3 yards outside our own 18 yard box, sprinted down the middle of the pitch, turning defence into instant attack, brought the ball over the half way line, past the centre circle, left two Blue shirts in his wake, had two more closing in in front of him and then played a brilliant defence splitting pass through for Paddy who crossed it to Britt for his hat trick only for Nsue to nip in last gasp and nick it off Britt’s toes.
Recar Red
The last thing Derby will is Paddy on the pitch, they know him and suffered at his hands.
I stick by my guns and say put him behind Britt, his best performances had him playing in the same line up as Vossen (or Kike), Albert right and Tomlin left
To my mind, Britt up front with Bamford tucked in behind him, flanked by Stewie and Braithwaite is the best attacking four we have.
It also means we are not too obvious as a formation if Derby have a game plan already set out
Ian
Paddy laid on a beautiful goal (just put it in the net job) unfortunately Brit had decided to join paddy(no me neither) instead of staying in the scoring position in front centre of goal. What a pity.
Ian
I think Downing, Braithwaite and Bamford are intelligent footballers and like as not will merge, blend and interchange positions during real time and that is precisely what GM has been missing in his side, slick fluid passing movement.
If Downing went wide Bamford (or Braithwaite) could move into the middle or vice versa, same goes if Paddy went Left or Right or Braithwaite. They are all skilful enough and astute enough to read the game, making their moves and runs to accommodate the teammate in possession.
I think the main difference perhaps between Ian’s thinking and mine is that I see Downing dropping slightly deeper in the No.10 role taking the ball forward from Grant/Howson/Clayts/Forshaw etc. and Ian possibly see’s Bamford pushed higher up the pitch just behind Britt. Both scenario’s would work for me, key is getting them all on the pitch at the same time.
Britt can just stand there with his hands on his hips to knock em in when those three are finished!
Why am I in this white van?
I only said
“Boro will win 4-1, with goals from Hickton (2) Mclmoyle and Rooks getting the rest.
Rooks?
You’ll get the bird for that
Aye, the black one.
Love it but I’ll go for a Mills hatrick before half time….
No, it will be clinched by a Brian Orritt thunderbastard. Right through the net.
UTB,
John
Jim Irvine for me.
Arthur Horsefield from three yards!
Boro have won 9 out of 10 against Derby at the riverside. Derby’s last clean sheet on Teesside achieved by Peter Shilton at Ayresome. What can go wrong.?
Spotted this on the Gazette site.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/its-map-teessides-finest-how-13950297
Didn’t realise that some of the people on it were from Teesside
Just seen that Stuart Ripley was the chair of the committee that banned Niasse for diving
Reflecting on Simon’s post regarding Boro’s splendid recent home record against Derby County, of all the clubs that Boro have met in over 100 league games, Derby are one of only two clubs that Boro have beaten more times than they have lost to, Portsmouth being the other. In fact Boro have won more matches against Derby and have scored more goals home or away against them than they have against any other club. However only four Boro players have scored hat tricks against Derby:-
George Camsell in a 4-0 home win in 1929
Alan Peacock 4 in a 7-1 away win in 1959
John O’Rourke in a 4-2 away win in 1967
Fabrizio Ravanelli in a 6-1 home win in 1997, so can Britt Assombalonga become the 5th Boro player to do it? Well, probably not, but I do think he will score in a 1-0 win.
Attendance 24,510.
I will go for a 2-0 home win as about two years ago. We played very well as I was at Riverside with my missus.
I would like to see Bamford, Assombalonga,Brathwaite and Downing starting the match. I prefer BB in the middle – Britt and Bambi.
Of course I hope we score more but Derby is in form now. So a touch game. I hope they have iFollow at the web. I will check next.
Up the Boro!
* a tough match*
No ifollow jarkko.
The rams have there own tv and it would appear that only home games are available for a fiver.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong
I signed up but it directed me to their game against villa
Where it says ‘Pay per Game, Choose below, £5’ You have to select the Boro game from the pull-down menu by clicking on the rather tiny down arrow to the right of ‘Aston Villa (H) Match…’ – Then just follow the instructions. I’ve already signed up so it works!
What would we do without Werder.
Thanks
Sitting on the shore of the swan river with glass of red watching the sun setting, contemplating who will replace Howson.
I’ve said before that Clayton used to play the attacking role at Huddersfieid and scored goals until AK reprogrammed him.
A similar thing happened with Bailey.
Surely Clayts can be deprogrammed. Insert the old hard drive and press reset.
If that doesn’t work then ‘re boot him
I think it will be Forshaw in the team and if Clayton is not in the squad he will be booted
Whispers are that Clayts will be back this afternoon so will have to wait and see. I’m not certain that Grant is 100% fit for today, could be touch and go for him so I won’t be surprised if Clayts gets a start let alone a seat on the bench.
Managed to hook up with rams website.
Thanks again Werder.
Will Nugent spoil the party?
I liked the guy and was sad to see him leave.
100% committed and played with a smile on his face.
If all Boro players have the same commitment as Nuge we won’t have a problem taking the points.
I can only see a draw 1-1.
Been sniffing around
Clayton back omnaquad today but not the team
Forshaw plays
As rumoured Clayton had serious bust up with Monk amd was shunted away from the squad
In squad
Bob is that a bike with 4 wheels?
Wrong again.
Come on BORO.
I was right at 10
Am !
They changed it !
Clayton not in Monks good books
I signed up yesterday. Once more hoping for three points.
Thanks for the continuing great info on the next opponent
Also heard that Monk thinks Bamford is a lazy player and needs to put more effort in
How would GM know as he never plays him. Paddy put more effort in on Wednesday night than one or two have in the last two months. I see that still wasnt enough effort. Lets hope those in possession of the shirt aren’t anonymous again.
Christie fit and plays
What an amazing Rugby League World Cup Semifinal in Auckland this morning. I’ve never seen or heard such an amazing spectacularly colourful and noisy atmospheric sporting event live or on television in my life, and I’ve seen many in my lifetime at many different sporting events. A 30,000 crowd of predominantly Tongans made such a nonstop noise from 30 minutes before to 15 minutes after the final minute cheering, roaring and singing hymns.
The match itself was quite sensational with England having taken a battering, but having withstood defensively a 20-0 scoreline so well, but when Tonga scored after 73 minutes the crowd noise was like a volcanic eruption, only to be repeated twice more when Tonga scored two more converted tries with only 90 seconds remaining. Then on the hooter Tonga just failed to hang on to the ball metres from the try line and England had survived.
It superseded anything I had seen on a rugby field, and that includes England winning the Rugby Union World Cup in 2003. Tonga and their supporters were magnificent, and I almost felt sorry that they lost. I admit I didn’t get up at 4.30am to watch it live, but have just finished watching the recording now. I doubt next week’s final in Brisbane against Australia will emulate today’s match, but it may now be a close contest.
After so much excitement, I can now settle down to listen to Boro’s match with Derby on Radio Tees, but l don’t think my heart can take another close finish, so please let’s have the win sewn up earlier!
Why Johnson?
He must be effervescent in training, shame we don’t play our games at Rockliffe or better still in GM”s mind!
Last minute change Leadbitter slight injury and Clayton in the team
He’ll be out to prove something today
I have bought a subscription to Derby County for the match today at Derby. But do not have a clue how to see the stream now. Please give a link to the live stream if you know how to see the match.
Up the Boro
Now I found the stream but there seem to be an error from their end. Just saw 1 min of the match.
Anybody else having a problem to see the stream?
UTB!
Yes same here in spain
That was all the Boro played
1 minute !
Unfortunately I had to sit through another 93 of torture
Never mind OFB, don’t let the result spoil your weekend. ‘Downing’ will always be MOTM 😃🍻
They had a gin fest at the Boro today sampling a variety of different Gins
Mrs OFB bought me a bottle for Xmas
It’s xmas now !???
Yes it’s Xmas now, snow bout adoubt it, hic !
same here in Bahrain and we are now a goal down
Plenty of the ball and corners but not making it happen. All too easy for the Derby defenders. Braithwaite having little influence on the game just no real creativity. Just too many hopeful lobs into their box…….Booooo
Came back but now gone again
Well I saw about 50 % of the first half.
Gutted to 1-0 down, I think we have played better than versus Brum on Wed. We could have scored a brace from the corners alone.
Come on Boro, still time to beat Derby. 2-1 will do. Up the Boro!
No chance of winning 2-1 now Jarrko
Total crazy day ! Will RR be able to write a report without swearing !
Time for Mr Gibson to say something….bad to worse. Mr Monk has been lucky today, hecan make plenty of excuses out this performance and say well its not my fault.
Can ewe believe it?
It’s an early goat for Dani, while all goes pear-sheeped for #Boro’s lambs to the slaughter against a Ram-pant Derby.
We’ve been fleeced…
Well that was an absolute pantomime. Oh yes it was! Gifted Derby all 3 goals and to be fair they didn’t create anything at all. But what they did was take the 3 gifted chances we gave them
On a positive we played the best I’ve seen us play so far in the first half, yet still went in 0-1 down, after missing/wasting 3 or 4 gilt edged chances. I genuinely thought we would go on and get something out of the game.
Then the horror show that was the second half. That second half was as disjointed a performance as you’ll see. Yes all 3 goals were individual errors or mistakes but we never looked like getting one back in the second half.
On a previous blog I suggested Johnson might be lacking confidence but on that showing he’s just not good enough. Bamford or even Traore should be in ahead of him. Why change both the midfield 2 is beyond me, as I thought Leadbitter had a decent game on Wednesday. Forshaw was bloody awful, sideways or backwards passing all game.
Ayala was an absolute moron and deserved to be sent off, even after the incompetent and spineless referee gave him a second chance for the penalty.
I’ve no idea how the last 20 minutes panned out as I left after Randolphs calamitous error. And before anyone says stay to the end no matter what, it’s my money that I stumped up in February and I’ll do what the hell I want with my time. As a group we were going to go away to Millwall and Sheffield Wed but if those overhyped Jessie’s can’t be bothered then why the heck should I. I’d rather put up with the pre Christmas crowds shopping in the town than wasting even more money watching that shower. I hope they win every game but I’m afraid I won’t be there to see them other than the games I’ve already paid for.
Losing faith in Monk, his ability to motivate the squad, playing certain players ahead of those who are obviously better footballers than ones he keeps selecting because he bought them, the charge sheet is growing imo. But what do I know I’m only a mug punter of 40 odd years and counting. Promotion is starting to drift away, unless we cut out the stupid mistakes and the manager starts his best players at his disposal.
Absolutely fuming and the more I write the more annoyed I’m becoming so I’ll leave it there.
Great post FAA, now let’s hear an endorsment from plenty more people.
Hearing that the BBC TEES interview with BG had him having a right go. Will he be on the phone tonight to SG.
I was home early enough to hear that Braveheart. To say he was seething would be an understatement! However he didn’t exactly cover himself in glory yesterday.
HOpefully Ben will play better with young Fry alongside him
What did we learn today ?
Clayton and Foreshaw can’t play together not a forward pass between them
Christie is not a first team player
Traore has to start at home
first half they had one shot one goal mistake by Ayala we missed loads
Second half stupid pass from Braithwaite and blunder by Randolph gifted two more
Sorry Johnson not a first team player
OFB, all true but Monk wil do nothing about it.
Blimey Bob nearly spilled my cuppa when you posted Christie. A quick recovery there.
YEA
I looked at it after I’d done it and thought oh hell !
Shows what the samples of gin I had at the match did to me!
Christie was one of the ones who played well with Fabio and Downing otherwise ….
Re: What did we learn today :
Monk has no tactical ideas & Bamford was introduced 30 minutes too late.
OFB…..midfield has been poor all season. After today I can understand why Clayton has not been playing. Forshaw marginally better. Not much, but at least goes forward….well a little bit.
So after twenty odd games we have a decent forty five minutes.
The team and it’s shape and discipline reflects on the manager?
” You don’t know what year doin”, ” You don’t know what year doin”
Monk out.
Bamford in.
At least Wolves are smashing the league.
Southgate was sacked when we were in 4th, 1 point off 2nd. Monk needs to go now, so the new manager can change things in January.
You make decisions and sometimes make mistakes. The clever people recognise they have made a mistake and rectify it.
Mr Monk will get us nowhere. If I thought there was a decent replacement out there, I would sack him now.
Again I will ask the question. Who sourced these players? Fletcher at 6+ mil and even Braithwaite at 9 mil. The latter looks pretty, but what does he actually produce? Answer …..not a lot. There’s 15/16 mil of questionable buying.
Who is in-charge of scouting and the final buying?
Away around south of Oxford looking at the are with our daughter who is moving with work so I cant discuss anything about the match other than I have to go in work on Monday. I doubt any Derby fans will mention the result.
Forget were we unlucky or not, the one fact is that the table supposedly never lies. That isn’t strictly true but as we have now played 19 matches it becomes a more accurate predictor.
Playing the rotter card, we have 18 points form six games against bottom six teams. Assuming that continues, that will give us 36 points.
The other 13 games have given us 11 points, same assumption that it continues, that will give us another 29 points.
It is all a bit of fun but that means 65 points for the season. How accurate is such nonsense, not vey but one thing I would say is that as the sample size increases so does the probability that the result is accurarate.
Several caveats. No other Championship team changed their manager in the summer, nor did they make wholesale squad changes, nor did they spend £40m+ on new players.
Two of those are false, you have three guesses to decide which are wrong.
Boro ram raided on Black Friday weekend. Oh dear..
Shambolic second half today. If the last 19 games are anything to go by we don’t have a cat in hell’s chance of being promoted this season or getting anywhere near it. We will be mid-table at absolute best which must surely be considered a monumental failure.
We should be where Wolves are and winning matches in the style they are showing, really smashing the league. Why aren’t we? Lousy recruitment and the wrong manager.
As I have said before, Monk is taking our team nowhere and the longer he stays the more time is being wasted, time that could be spent by a decent manager sorting out the mess.
Average Championship team having an incompetent day.
At the end of the season we will, on average, be average and right in the middle of the league table. The problem for me, and I know nothing, is that the coaching, motivation and tactics seem totally unable to get the best out of a good bunch of players. And suggestions of fall-outs with the manager? Pathetic really.
Sorry Sam was that another coffee?
UTB,
John
What can you say about that? Plenty, but most of the points to be made several times before. We simply dont have a team, we have a tinkered with selection of 11 with obvious favourites and others being played only to see them go further backwards. We beat the lower teams because we have individuals with enough skill to make a difference. We don’t deliver against the top half because they function better and understand our weaknesses better.
Most managers who fail would point towards a lack of backing or time. He may not have the season but he has had plenty of time to make some kind of impression and point towards a style of play. But what are we? Are we possession based? Are we counter attacking? Are we trying to play quick incisive passes and get behind teams? I honestly dont have a clue what style is being developed and have no confidence that this is a work in progress worth waiting for.
I posted some time ago that individual mistakes were just a symptom of poor confidence and that something else is wrong. The mistakes continue from players who have been consistent previously. That points towards poor coaching and motivation but more importantly team morale. When patterns emerge it would be foolish to ignore them.
I’m sure very few will agree with me but I’m finding it difficult to criticise Monk for today. We started well again and had enough chances before they scored. He can’t then be blamed for individual mistakes (and stupidity) at both ends. As always, fine margins. But top two looks a mile off.
BoroPhil
When one of your centre halfs is on a yellow and gets away without a second yellow after a stupid lunge in the penalty box, wouldn’t you think the manager might think to himself “Mmm doesn’t look like Danni is going to finish this game better get Dael warmed up”.
As mentioned in a previous post it smacks of poor game/player management to me. And as for Johnson, why? Another poor decision imo. Yes individual errors at both ends were the main reasons why we got turned over but Monk appears to be doing the same things week in and week out, when we’re up against a team from the top half and not learning.
GM looked lost at times yesterday and I wished he was!
I agree, to a point. It was individual errors that undid us today, and a large dollop of stupidity, that must have the manager tearing his hair out. But, and it’s a large but, while you and I are powerless to effect what happens on the pitch, the manager is paid to do precisely that and in that respect Monk is failing badly. I could see no evidence that he knew what calls he needed to make to change things for us. And it was hardly the first time that that could be said this season. The players look uninspired in the most literal sense and rumours of fallings out suggest an unhappy group.
I’m still not in the “Monk out!” camp but it’s getting harder and harder to justify my position.
They’re not rumours
Whilst I can see where you are coming from BoroPhil, there certainly appears to be something fundamently wrong with the whole set up.
Rumours of unrest, and they may only be rumours, do not bode well if true. The large squad may not be helping. Players are in and out. So understandings do-not develop as should especially at this stage of the season.
If you look at Cardiff, Bristol abd Sheff Utd, thattells us something. Top two looking a mile off. That one has long gone. Play off place……just cannot see it without some major change.
What would be that change or changes??
Black Saturday followed Black Friday with a dismal performance from Boro and a dismal collapse by the cricket team. At least both rugby teams won.
Redcar Red posted his match report in the small hours this morning after he, from what I understood, had been celebrating at the mother of all parties…
https://diasboro.club/2017/11/24/championship-boro-vs-derby/#MatchReport
Yeah I understand the frustrations Pedro. But if (yes, I know, if, if ,if) we put our chances away first half we we’ve won 5 from 6, everyone is happy and nothing fundamental is wrong. As always, small margins. I haven’t heard any rumours of unrest so maybe I don’t know the whole picture. When the players come in though they seem keen to make an impression (eg Bamford on Wednesday) which doesn’t suggest they are sulking or un-motivated. And Monk has really only changed things in recent weeks due to injuries/suspensions because we have been doing pretty well.
If there is an underlying problem I still get the impression that we believe our own hype and think we just need to turn up to win. That could explain some of the complacency and stupid mistakes. We won’t be the first relegated team to suffer from that though.
I still don’t think sacking Monk will get us anywhere. It will mean another overhaul of the players in January and will create divisions. Can’t see us getting anywhere near the top 6 if we do that. As it is, we are still in touching distance.
BP, what signs have you seen of positive progression in performances since the opening game of the league season?
I thought the 90 mins v Birimingham and the initial 30 v Derby was some of the best I’ve seen us play this season. If we’d took our chances yesterday we’d have won 5 from 6 and we’d all be a lot happier. They were substantially better than the Preston, Brentford, Cardiff performances.
I don’t disagree that 7th place isn’t good enough. But there’s enough there for me to think we can go on another run. There isn’t another team in this division we should be worried about playing if we have our heads screwed on. But, that might be the problem – we expect to win and don’t apply ourselves sufficiently, leading to the individual errors.
RR
Spot on as usual.
Braithwaite has faded faster than a pair of curtains in permanent sunlight. Johnson out of his depth. Fabio my MOTM again with Downing and Christie also doing well.
Once again, we have paid the price for missing gilt edged scoring opportunities and with suicidal defending.
If Braithwaite thinks he’s a pair of curtains he should pull himself together !
Redcar Red
It was like waiting for the visit by a local Jag expert when my beloved S type started using the engine bay instead of the exhaust and sounded rougher than a Grimsby fisherwoman.
Then your report appeared and confirmed all the fears, all those dark and forebding thoughts as you tossed and turned in the dead of night, the beloved squad should be sold for parts because they were no longer a roadworthy machine.
I got £600 for my aged S type with a blown up engine, would we get that in January for our misfiring misfits?
I knew it was coming but you gave bad news in the same way as you give good.
Thanks, through gritted teeth, a day in the garden beckons. Lots of pruning is in order. How apt.
Just like your Jag I finished the day piston broke !
Great read RR, and having seen 75% of the game your analysis puts it all into perspective. I really think this has been coming since the opening game.
I don’t think there is a machine that can be built from our collection of parts.
Better sell some and try again – but this time lets start with a design and then get the parts to fit.
Think we need a new workshop manager
I didn’t have the fortune to see the game (or maybe that should say was I was fortunate not to) but thanks again RR for sharing your eyes with us. I particularly liked the pass the parcel at the fundraiser imagery. The team’s instinct is not to be direct. Reverting to type as we go a goal down underlines that there is no confidence to change that instinct.
Why Dael Fry was ever dropped all those weeks ago is still beyond me. There is no consistency in the handling of players. You make one mistake and your are dropped while others repeat the same mistakes over and over and retain their position.
The thing about a car is that it is a collection of many different components that individually don’t do very much. However in that hands of a capable engineer those separate components can come together and consistently get you from A to B. I suspect there is not a great deal wrong with all the major components of our team, Trouble is that no one seems to know which model to buy the Haynes manual for, so its pot luck when some of the components are put together in right way.
Thank you RR, it must have been turmoil to put fingers to keyboard and come up with your excellent report and synopsis of our failings.
All teams miss chances and you would have to say that Carsons save was reactionary as it was more or less straight at him….Britt could hardly have put it anywhere else.
But we continue to fail at both ends…..dire defending at times which again, all teams make mistakes, but we seem to concede when we make just one mistake. Is Mr Monk an unlucky General. Napoleon can answer that one.
For all our possession and play around their box area, none was really penetrative. Yes SD played as well as I have seen him, but the passes and crosses did not hurt. Everything was too slow, the build up, the continued sideways and even backwards passing. In the second half chasing the game we had a free kick in their half and in ended up with Randolf. How many balls does Britt get to run onto like his goal against Hull??
We all hoped Braithwaite would be the catalyst…..but unfortunately he just does not look as though he is going to be a (not as good) Ramirez. We just do not have sufficient creativity from the midfield players….no slick passing, no shoots on target, no goals, nothing at all. As RR said look at how Derby scored their first goal.
Whilst I appreciate what BoroPhil says about not sacking Mr Monk, because of the upheaval…….something has to change, because no change will see us continue like we are diong now.
RR,
An excellent, if depressing, write-up. I think Werder should invite Mr Monk to provide his version of a write so we can compare the two side-by-side. At this level of displayed competence I think the best we can hope for is the top of the bottom third of the table. When you think Nugent struggled to get consistent game time with Boro.
Do we only hire managers with blinkers?
UTB,
John
Great report RR.
You wrote it as I saw it or at least for 80 mins of the match after which I decided to leave as I couldn’t take anymore and decided my time could be better spent packing to come back to Spain.
My stay was a lot longer than some in the East Stand who quickly departed after Ayala’s diabolical challenge.
Whilst you cannot blame GM for individual mistakes by senior players, this just hides the fact that we lack coherence and consistency as a team and technical nous which I do put down as the remit of the manager.
As you have said why was Ayala not hooked after the penalty!
Why do we gain free kicks in the opposition half and instead of putting the ball into the box it ends up with our keeper!
Do GM and the rest of the team appreciate the speed, accuracy and clinical way in which Derby scored the first goal and do they not think that is what they should be doing.
I agree that for much of the first half we were in the ascendancy but as so often there was no end product. That applies to the likes of SD and others who saw plenty of the ball and were involved in numerous free kicks and corners which ultimately were wasted.
I have had my doubts for some weeks now and having been present at the last two home games have come to the view that it is just not going to happen under GM and it is going to be a long painful period before he departs.
Regarding the free kicks that end up back with our keeper they remind me of the WW2 US General who, when he was asked why they were retreating, he told his men and questioner that they were simply advancing in a different direction. Therefore we are attacking in a different direction.
UTB,
John
What to make of yesterday’s result and performance? Last night it was despair and ‘Monk out’. Today I’ve mellowed – but only a little.
Were there any positives in that match? Well, yes, some. It seems widely agreed that we played some of our best football of the season. We bossed much of the first half and it was a bit perplexing how half time found us still behind. Downing, Christie and Fabio emerged with credit, as they have for most of the season. That’s about it.
Perhaps the spells of good football are the true indicator and the underlying trend is upwards. Perhaps yesterday was just an aberration and a collection of individual mistakes. Perhaps this is the kick in the teeth needed and we will go on from this showing the good football that we displayed yesterday and getting our just rewards. Perhaps …
The worries.
1. The trend of struggling against the better Championship teams, especially with Britt’s failure to score against them. This strongly suggests that we’re not a match for the top 6, especially as we approach the half-way point.
2. The ease with which the team capitulated when they should have been fighting back. One of the pleasing things about the season so far has been the number of times we’ve come from behind – an indicator of belief and good team spirit. No sign of it yesterday.
3. The lack of identity in this Boro and the absence of any pattern to our team play. After 19 games, GM has yet to imprint in his style in this squad. For all his faults, it was crystal clear what AK was about after 19 games and every player knew his part in it. My sense is that the players are not buying in to GM’s approach because they don’t know what is is. My suspicion is that he doesn’t know what it is.
As was the fear from the outset, could it be that Pep Clotet was the tactical and coaching brains behind GM (as with Eriksson and Tord Grip) and that he’s not the same without him? If so, Oxford aren’t pulling up any trees so it might not be too late.
Pep Clotet and Monk fell out big time last season apparently
Whether they could kiss and make up I’ve no idea
It has been suggested by others that divided they are not as good as the sum of the parts
OFB,
Where have I heard that before?
UTB,
John
I’m not sure I agree that we weren’t penetrative yesterday. Off the top of my head in the first half, Britt should have scored when Carson saved well, they cleared one of the line and Fabio missed a relative sitter. There were a few other shots that just went past the post as well. Look at the stats – 16 shots and 2 on target. That’s pathetic to be honest, but I think that shows poor composure in front of goal rather than a lack of penetration.
We should have scored before they did and then it is a different game. I understand the clamour for change when things aren’t going our way but I’ve seen enough progress in the last month or so to indicate we are improving. We are still seventh, within touching distance of the playoffs. Other teams in the past have hit the top two from here or even worse positions. I know it’s often an alien concept on here, but perhaps we just need a little bit of patience.
Also, the stat about not performing against the top 6 is a bit of a red herring for me – we’ve seen that anyone can beat anyone – look at Birmingham yesterday. We were streets ahead of them yet they nearly won at Sheffield United.
The salient fact is that we regularly misfire when it comes to shooting. Two shots on target from 16 attempts is disgraceful. If, as is the case, that sort of statistic only happened in one match, you might put it down to bad luck. In fact in the 19 league matches to date Boro have had 227 shots (an average of 12 per match), of which 71 were in target (an average of 3.73 per match) resulting in 24 goals of which Assombalonga has scored 11.
These figures are from the BBC website, and I leave it to others to give opinions as to their respectability.
Ken
A deadly stat in the times today.
All about goals(or the lack of them)
The number of goals scored tells you where you will place in the league. Frightening but true.
Worse, no matter how few goals you concede, you still go down.
the stats are long running and hold up well.
Now to derby.
We attacked them throughout the first half, had the ball running along the goal line three times (we had the ball on the goal line on another occasion)
On two occasions we had three players in the box holding hands watching the above, and there’s the rub, static, the very word for our players, static.
It was obvious that any team that packs their defence can only create a chance by hammering the ball up into the corner of the pitch and taking it from there.
So tell me how we had two players in the box.
Tell me how the players in the corner with the derby players failed to commit a simple foul on them and end the threat(they would have certainly done the same to us)
All the above is a very lengthy way to say that our team is incompetent on a lot of levels.
Ken, you have to go down to Sheff Wed before a team has scored less than the Boro. If you don’t score goals you do not win matches. Well enough of them.
RR
I know how difficult it must have been to write that report with the steam still rising from your anger
I must admit I wish I had some incontinence pads on when I read your report because I pixxed myself laughing and I didn’t expect to be laughing at the match report !
I agree with all of that and I’ve made my comments known regarding Johnson.
Alan Murray who was manager of Hartlepool amd Darlo after being coach to Souness at Blackburn and Youth Academy coach at Bemfica made a couple of points yesterday.
He said he would never play Forshaw and Clayton as a pair as their style was similar and didn’t play enough forward passes
He also said that Traore was one of those players who could get the manager sacked if he played regularly !
Mind he did admit that we nearly scored at the end after a run by
Traore…..
All in all a funny day.
I saw Ben Gibson after the game and I’ve jever seen him so angry after a game he’s usually so good humoured.
OFB
Is it safe to come out yet, after that expletive deleted game?
****** no
Because ******** Monk is ************ and the whole team are *********
And I’m really glad to get that off my *******
Why don’t you just say what you think ? 😃
I ******* did and the ******* predictive text went wrong
Building on a point raised by Nikeboro.
The right No. 2 is as important, if not more, than the right No. 1.
I maintain that Ireland’s success in the late ’80s and early ’90s would have left stronger foundations for the future had Big Jack’s assistant been someone closer to the Irish game than Maurice Setters. Someone like, say, Liam Tuohy, who quit early on after Jack intervened with one of his half-time team talks, or so I hear. Setters has since been described as “a bit of a creep”, a “con man”, “a yes man” and “a bluffer” in certain circles. He also somehow managed to bring a tape of the wrong opposition for the team to watch before a game. Naturally Big Jack went ballistic.
Sr Alex’s longevity and adaptability depended on his re-invention of his coaching team, with No.2’s switching from Kidd to McClaren to Queiroz. No surprise that when Queiroz was lured away by Real Madrid United looked sufficiently weaker.
AK? I can’t help wondering what would have happened if he’d been able to get on with Higgy. I have absolutely no reason to disbelieve Higgy’s recent words in the Gazette – AK was the kind who wanted no one else to steal the limelight in order to make him look more awesome. Bit like Tim from that classic, or maybe not-so-classic, sitcom Home Improvement, the guy who hated being upstaged by both his assistant and his wife…
“I’m going to keep doing things my way so long as we’re getting things done.”
His neighbour: “Tim? (Tim walks away) Tim, can we talk about compromise?”
As a bonus. Here’s something going on, over on the Twitter-waves. Lyrics matched to pictures.
When you try your best but you don’t succeed… (Garry Monk)
When you get what you want but not what you need… (Ashley Fletcher)
When you feel so tired but you can’t sleep… (The signing of Downing)
Stuck in rever-er-se… (Adam Clayton)
…When you lose something you can’t replace… (Aitor Karanka)
When you love someone but it goes to waste… (Gasgone Ramirez)
Could it be worse? (Marvin Johnson)
Lights, please guide… us home. And ignite… our bones. And Monk, please try… to fix us.
BoroPhil, you will have to do more to convince me about our poor games, generally, against the higher league position teams.
Yes anybody can beat anybody on any given day. Probably not Wolves now.
But whilst we have arguably improved in the few previous matches, we lost to Cardiff and Derby……at home. So you could argue we really have not improved sufficiently to get where we want to be.
We will not makes the play offs, the top two are long gone as we all agree, unless we take points off those above and around us. Us getting three points and the team above nil, inches us up towards them. But we are not beating those teams.
The performance from Ayala yesterday was a “I want out ” statement.
either he’s been tapped up I suspect from a club in Spain, or he knows where this is going?
I wouldn’t say the club is a basket case ,Ala Sunderland, but when you look at things there is definitely a feeling of the blind leading the blind.
S.Gibson realising after eight years in the wilderness,he needed some outside input hires a coach from a world class organisation, he brings a professional and disciplined attitude with him, sorts things out with a squad of players not fit for purpose, can I say Curtis Main,
Improves ordinary players ,makes some astute signings, and gets us to the promised Land,
The promised Land however is a step too far,simply because the rest of the division were better and more canny,we for the most part competed up to Christmas, but we didn’t have the depth of talent to compete.
Players in the dressing room,started blaming everyone but themselves,
The club we are told is now a toxic place to work, it’s miserable, and everyone blames the manager.
By the way Higgy maybe the coach thought your suggestions were stupid, and maybe sussed you are a back stabber?
Anyway S.Gibson fires the manager, and puts in charge someone everyone loves, and what a disaster , obviously the fragile dressing room split into two, the foreign lads and the others.
This is on the chairman, anyone could see this would happen.
We get to this summer and the club decide we will. go British,so big clear out,
Now let’s find a manager, the chairman must read the papers , because they all told him Gary Monk was the man?
Why?
Swanseas successful for the most part their rise from nothing was with foreign managers, Gary Monk falls into the job and takes them backwards, sacked.
But once again through media love fest he gets the Leeds job,they don’t trust him with a long term contract because he hasn’t done anything of note yet,seems logical to me,
The most successful clubs have had foreign coaches, now I’m not saying they are God’s gift to coaching but they don’t come with the baggage many British coaches have, they don’t suck up to the media boys, and their discipline is unbelievable.
The whole point of this rant, is, has Steve Gibson lost interest and allowed outside hangers on to influence him once again and we know what that means ,back into the wilderness,
Do we want a solid professional, disciplined successful run club,were you come in work hard,get the job done and go home,or a bunch of petulant footballers who prefer a Butlins holiday camp !
Rant Over.
Garry Monk was a guest on “Match of the Day 2 Extra” on BBC this lunch time along with Martin Keown and Jason Burt, Chief Correspondent for the Daily Telegraph. They were discussing among other subjects the imminent appointment of Alan Pardew as manager at West Bromwich Albion.
Mark Chapman was suggesting that the same group of unemployed managers seemed to be on a “merry-go-round” as prospective managers for Premier League clubs seeking a replacement. He asked Monk whether clubs sought managers who would continue the style of their former managers, to which Monk replied that that was the thinking of Swansea City. However, when pressed said that clubs like Leeds and Boro were different. He also said you know what to expect if you appoint the likes of Allardyce and Pulis.
Later Chapman asked Monk if he was enjoying his time at Boro, to which he said he was, and reflected on yesterday’s match more or less in the same vein as he did on the Boro website, but did say that Boro were progressing. However, unfortunately he didn’t say where to!
Ken, I cannot understand why some clubs (unfortunately Boro included) do it unlike Swansea. You loose a lot of time ( a year or two minimum) and millions of money by doing it in the “typical” British way.
There should be continuity in hiring a new manager. Why throw some of the players away a club bought just a year before?
I would call the continuity of hiring and playing a club policity employed by Liverpool (in 1970’s & 80’s)’ Ajax and Swansea a professional way of running a club.
If you are not professional enough, you just chop and change not really knowing what you do. A vision missing. It should not be done like during the Strachan and Mogga eras – everything was done diffferently from player hiring to playing style. If you do these changes behind the scenes every second or third year you loose a lot of money and time!
Just saying, like. Up the Boro!
GT
Ayala has just brought forward his annual Winter break from his recurring injury problems! I don’t see an easy way back for him now.
Still hoping to wake up and find that yesterday was just a bad dream.
Just a follow up, recently Mogga, in an interview brought up I
his time at Boro, as manager.
He mentioned it was the job he’d dreamed of, but realised within a couple of weeks he’d made a big mistake,
What does that tell you?
I wonder how it went if Monk had a meeting with Ayala after yesterday’s debacle?
Did he give Ayala an almighty dressing down and make it clear that he had let himself, the team, the fans and the manager down and that it must never happen again? Or was it a polite conversation in which Monk quietly suggested that it hadn’t been very sensible of Ayala to get himself sent off and could he please try to control himself in future?
I ask because the whole team environment and ethos at the moment seems to me to be lacking direction and control. The manager doesn’t seem able to impose discipline, motivation and tactics, many of the players seem to be going through the motions in a passionless couldn’t care less kind of way, there is talk of dissent and fallings out and the fans can see clearly that something is not right.
I don’t believe that Monk has the streng or ability to sort out the myriad problems that are evident for all to see. He appears to be too placid and struggling to work out what to do next. In my humble opinion the club needs someone who will really shake things up, someone who will instill a sense of pride, passion and common purpose, who will not tolerate anything that disturbs the team ethos, who will demand maximum effort at all times and sanction any players who don’t give it and who will pick the best team from the talent available in the squad.
It needs a Nigel Pearson type in my view. It doesn’t have to be him but it has to be someone like him who will transform the current sow’s ear into a silk purse and take no prisoners in the process.
One of Vic’s blogs, from very early on in Mogga’s reign, says a lot.
https://untypicalboro.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/numbers_dont_ad/
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik
Once again RR a great honest report. Sums it all up at the moment.
So many thoughts doing the rounds over social media and I have really no idea what is going on. Rumours of rift in the camp once again. Just like we had with Karanka. and look at the mess that got us into.
For me BG comments were troubling , sounds to me he is totally fed up and perhaps could he want a move or has no faith in GM
Surely he must communicate with his uncle now and again and reveal what is going on in the dressing room. Or does he being a complete professional say nothing ?
For me personally I have no idea how the team will play from one game to the other. You just never know..
GM , well it is difficult what to think about him since he arrived. He does not inspire confidence with his team selection and tactics. Will he or won’t he get it right. We can only hope so but how long do we wait.
For me Sunderland have pulled the first Christmas cracker of the season by appointing Chris Coleman. Sunderland were the laughing stock but could that come back to haunt us ?
At the moment it seems doom and gloom for MFC after yesterdays absolutely shambles.But as usual , we are now seeing the next game as a must win.
No wonder we all hit the bottle as far as MFC are concerned !
I deliberately gave it some time today to let things sink in and settle down a bit. My views are that we are no nearer finding a pattern or system than we were last May. The signings have been 50/50 at the very best. Some real good Championship players and some League 1 standard or lower and that is being kind.
I cannot believe that Ben has gone from a £30m Premiership CB to a middling Championship £4m plodder at best in six months. I can’t believe Stewy was dismissed as surplus before kicking a ball and is now our best player by a mile. I can’t believe that a lad who bettered Ravanelli’s goal scoring record is not as good as Fletcher or Johnson in GM’s myopic eyes. I can’t believe that a midfield player is suspended so lets disrupt the entire midfield and re-introduce a player who has earned promotion after being ignored for what 5 games leaving out the inspirational Club Captain in the process while he accommodates a sidewinder back passing also ran?
Something sticks and its beginning to reek out the Riverside. £50m to beat the bottom 6 Championship sides Seriously? Time for a radical rethink and overhaul, its blindingly obvious the Players have little belief or confidence in what they are expected to do. The fans are slipping away, only by a few hundred here and there but they are dwindling. Preferences being given to those whom the Manager sanctioned over those with better ability to save face. “Long term planning” over “results”? Whats the point of a long term plan when you are incapable of dealing with the immediate nature of the here and now. Lets sign mediocre to low quality players who have failed elsewhere or excelled at a lower level with “potential” while we attempt to smash the league?
Benchmark ourselves against Leeds because that is the level we are now at. A car crash of a club with a Manager from a Cypriot Club with zero experience of English Football let alone Championship Football level pegging on points, separated by a single solitary goal? Reality check Pleeeeaaaase!!!!!
Farcical joke comes to mind. It is clearer than de Pena’s debut that MFC is going nowhere right now and more disturbingly have been going nowhere since August. There is more chance of Adlene Guedioura ending up top scorer than there is this present regime achieving the Play Offs. Typical Boro and SG will sit and wait until the boil is so big its impossible to see past it rather than lance it now. What is the absolute worst thing that could happen, finish 8th or 9th? Joking aside where is Guedioura because he can’t be any worse than the midfield sidewinders displayed yesterday, in fact where is de Pena because he makes Johnson, Fletcher and Co. look great.
For me GM has totally completely and utterly lost whatever plot he had, assuming that he did actually have one which I now very much doubt. No system, no progress, no clarity and now fissures in both the camp and with the crowd. I couldn’t stomach AK’s drab boring monotonous excuse for football but at least he had a plan and the Players, like it or lump it, knew what that plan was. What we are now witnessing is nothing less than comical clueless garbage masquerading under del boyesque patter “this time next year Stevie we’ll be Champions League”. The game is up, he has been rumbled and its clear that as a Football club we are heading for mid Championship obscurity. I will hold my hand up to thinking he was an up and coming young manager but I will also now hold my hand up to being duped and wrong, and badly wrong at that.
Approaching half way into the season and despite spending more than any other Championship outfit we are mediocre dross. I never for one second believed that we would smash this League but its blatantly clear that we aren’t even capable of competing with those at the top. Wolves have had new Management and signings, many of whom have zero Championship knowledge (or even English knowledge come to that). We lent one of our Youth players to Sheffield United last season!
Cardiff on paper shouldn’t come remotely close to us so what is the difference between those clubs and ours? Signings, tactics and Management nous. The Players of those clubs know what is expected of them and what is their roles and responsibilities. It is becoming clearer week by week that our side haven’t a clue who is supposed to be doing what or for that matter covering what or how, where or when its an absolute shambles. The first 13 minutes yesterday was great but it also highlighted exactly why we will go nowhere, “all fur coat and no ……………” you know the rest.
No doubt January will see a clear out, I like many others fear who will be cleared out and who will be retained if the status quo remains. I would give my right arm to have Albert, Nugent and Reach over what we currently regurgitate over. MFC is a great gig and anyone who gets it is very fortunate but I am sick of having to write the blindingly obvious months before it is inevitably acted upon when there was and today may still be time to rectify the shortcomings. There is absolutely nothing that gives me any shred of confidence or belief that we are getting close or indeed even know where we are headed out on that pitch apart from “pass back to Randolph”.
I stayed until the end yesterday out of duty to Diasboro but have compassion with those who walked out with 30 minutes remaining. It was discussed on here how Monk needed to go back to AK’s core squad to engender stability and then strung a few wins together against the dregs of the league. It was also discussed how he needed Bamford to add some intelligence and link up with Downing, Braithwaite and Assombalonga. I’m happy to be proved wrong and had Johnson had a stormer and Fletcher came on and scored a Hat Trick then great but as it stands my track record for predicting the Boro future stands far better testimony than SG’s or the present incumbent stood with his arms folded looking bewildered. I hope SG either acts or GM proves me wrong, I won’t hold my breath.
Redcar Red, I totally agree with you. After Ayala’s sending off I turned off the Radio Tees commentary and watched Final Score on the red button instead. When I used to go to the matches I never once left before the end of a match, but I would have last Saturday.
I think that the standard of football in the Championship this year is the lowest for many seasons (maybe Wolves excepted) yet Boro are still unable to compete. Let’s not forget also that Boro have in the past fallen away in the new year, so could we find ourselves in a relegation fight before the season ends? Surely not, but Nottm Forest came close last season after a reasonable start!
There seems to be something fundamentally wrong behind the scenes, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there are a few transfer requests come January.
RR
That’s a pretty fair assessment of where we are.
I dont particularly like change for change sake but in business I was always prepared to make decisive action even if it incurred making a difficult decision regarding personnel
Sometimes you have to ignore the personality and look at the results. Football is a results based business and whilst we all think of it as a sport it is a major business and there were a lot of unhappy people at the ground on Saturday
I stayed until the end and afterwards the discussion on the message boards was pretty vitriolic and said the same thing. Monk out.
If our fellow bloggers who are unable to see the games or watch solely on TV they will be unaware of the hostile atmosphere that is now prevalent within the Riverside to our hapless manager and our team.
It is easy to say that in the first half we were brilliant and that it was the result of individual errors but the manager picks the team and would our previous manager made so many changes in so few games with so many variations in formation ?
RR and myself and others have season tickets and at the moment I know Mrs OFB and other members of my family are unwilling to return to the Riverside.
RR and myself are not ranting about ros we have had time to consider and our thoughts are made in the cold light of the aftermath.
I too hope I’m wrong about the tenure of this manager but I have grave thoughts about what is going to happen if he remains in charge
OFB
Yes that’s the trouble OFB, in the distant past before the advent of season tickets, football was an entertainment business.
RR,
Beautifully and eloquently put I certainly could not put it better myself. The management are providing proof, week after week, that they don’t have a clue. More importantly the players seem to have no belief or trust in the management. The only way Bamford is going to get a sensible run and forge a partnership with Britt will be if he starts laying golden eggs. In my naivety I see those two working like Quin and Phillips did at Sunderland. Dream on.
Does the manager understand the tactics and use of substitutions? He seems to use them to make things worse or at best preserve the on pitch status quo.
Somebody please find us a manager who knows what he’s doing and going to do with a good squad of players.
I feel quite desperate and frustrated about it all.
If we achieve the top ten and out of the play-offs it will be a miracle.
UTB,
John
John
There is one man and I don’t like him but his track record for promotion speaks for itself
ALLARDYCE
I agree with you OFB, I often offer him a coffee at the end of my posts. There would be some discipline too and a clear brief for the players.
UTB,
John
RR
You hit the nail on the head,with the statement, and it’s gone on for too long.
Playing for MFC ,is a good gig.
I should have said of course , signing for MFC ,is a good gig,there is a difference!
…… the 3 win bounce has now evaporated, and we have been measured and found wanting. We are cementing our niche at 10th place – like it or lump it.
I want the Boro to do well as do we all but we are just slowly fading and losing value – just like Ben.
Come Steve, throw the dice one more time, to hell with the baby get rid of the dirty water and start again.
What I saw of the first half ( there were a lot of problems in the stream from the Derby county website) we played better than ever this season.
Then we made a horrible mistake which lead to a penalty only after two minutes in the second half. Then a stupid challenge and a red card. And a howler from the keeper. Game lost.
These things just happens in football occationally. And we cannot blame Monk on these player mistakes.
I have seen these things happening in football. I cannot say the goal number two or three became because Derby were superior. The played OK in the second half but they were just extremely lucky. We shooted ourself to the foot. We were invalids for the last 43 mins.
Let’s move on. One bad or horrible 43 mins does not mean we should surrend the war. We could still be there in the top six or two in May.
Up the Boro!
But to what avail? We can’t beat top half teams, so even if by some strange chance we made the playoffs, what chance would we have of winning? And even if by some miracle we did, I wouldn’t want us to suffer the ignominy of another season probably even worse than Sunderland’s last season.
Jarkko
With all due respect RR myself and others on this blog have seen a more underlying picture of incompetence than just this one game
It’s because we are frightened of losing the war we need someone to rally the troops
I’ve never seen Ben Gibson so angry as he was on Saturday after the game and his anger was also embraced by the crowd
My take on the individual errors are that the first goal was as a consequence of a player cutting in past Ben then running at speed into the box and no one dare touch him. That was an error on Ben’s part for getting turned (arguably not so dissimilar to Dael’s “judgement error”). That happens in football but it contrasts with our slow roll it out from the back attempt at 40 passes build up.
Now goals two and three are both as a direct consequence of out slow pedestrian pass it around at the back and then find Randolph mentality. We had just started the half for heaven’s sake, we were a goal down and should have come out all fired up and blazing not looking for pass backs.The third goal, Randolph’s slice was a gain a pass back which put him under pressure and he sliced it. If we were not so set on passing it sideways and backwards goals two and three would never have happened. The penalty would never have happened and Ayala wouldn’t have been sent off.
Derby knew that we like to take our time and never rush anything. Our passes are ponderous, predictable and therefore easily read. Nugent knew this, charged down and ran at everything which singlehandedly pulled our Red shorts down and smacked us good and hard on our collective derriere’s. Close us down quickly and our passing it out from the back via a series of three yard passes becomes a threat rather than retaining possession. It was our achilles heel on Saturday yet our management set up couldn’t see the obvious. Ayala’s first booking came after the restart from their first goal when a lethargic pass to Ayala had Nugent closing in on him like a steam train. Pace and power personified!
Stewy is becoming our Player of the Season, why is he standing out? We will all have our reasons (including many that still hold grudges) but the reason he stands out for me is the quality of his passing is in stark contrast to the tippy tappy, feeble, trouble inviting dross from many of the rest of them. He can pick out a player 30 or 40 yards away, elevate the ball at the right height, speed and trajectory and in doing so often getting us out of tight corners at the back, springing defence into attack.
That free kick just in front of the Technical area in the second half that ended up passed back to Randolph should have had Garry Monk incandescent with rage. We were behind and trying to rescue something, had an opportunity to put the ball into the opposition danger zone but sacrificed so we could retain possession trying to entice Derby out. Why on earth would a side away from home 3-0 up late in the second half be tempted and teased into chasing the ball?
So my logic is that whilst the individual errors were definitely and undeniably that they were as a direct consequence of a playing style that created the perfect storm. Playing against Boro is very easy if the opposition Coaches know to close us down quickly, rush us and then intercept the obvious telegraphed pass. Any side that comes at us with pace will disrupt our game plan enforcing errors and mistakes. Very ironic considering that we were looking for those very Players with pace and power in the Summer supposedly yet have seen none of it materialise apart from Adama’s cameos and Bamford’s rare outings, both of whom predate Garry Monk.
If you think Downing is becoming our player of the season then we really are doomed. Just goes to show football really is a game of opinions.
I’d like to have access to his OPTA stats. I have seen him live three times now and just can’t see why he is being praised.
Jarkko, I admire your positive outlook but we will not be in the top six in May. The manager will make sure.
You say that you can’t blame Monk for individuals making mistakes, but the same players that were once solid, reliable operators at this level are now looking error prone. Either directly or indirectly, Monk has to shoulder some of the responsibility for this. Perhaps the lack of a coherent system and tactical plan is behind the errors, as the players aren’t sure what Monk wants them to do.
PS. RR, the version three was excellent. I was expecting much worse from you after the second half we had. Now it was a very professional report. Well done. Up the Boro!
Congratulations to Jeff Stelling for being awarded the title of “Celebrity Fund Raiser of the Year” by “Just Giving” for raising a total of £370,000 in his marathon walks this year for “Prostate Cancer UK”. He has now raised a staggering £800,000 in total over two years for this worthy cause. Well done, Jeff!
I didn’t see the game on Saturday Jarkko, relying on what is posted on twitter and here to follow the proceedings, especially RR’s imperious match report.
As I understand it we did start well, but as soon as we conceded, we reverted to type and began playing sideways and backwards possession inspired football with little of the drive to make anything happen. That is the point, we reverted to type.
I agree that any team, every team for that matter, will concede goals against the run of play; will suffer because of individual errors; will concede because the ball hit a divot in the build up … That’s OK. That is part and parcel of football. I don’t expect us to smash any league (though its good to dream about it!) , but I do expect us to play with a plan, an intent , a purpose to get forward and score goals. I don’t think anyone is singling out individuals in the team for their mistakes; these will always happen. However, as the same pattern repeats and repeats, you have to look at who is orchestrating this?….. whose plan is it?…… whose discipline is it?….. whose vision is it?…… whose understanding of what is happening on the field of play is it?…… who is reacting to circumstance and adjusting things accordingly?…..etc.
I think that now, four months into the season, it is very reasonable to be questioning the ability of the incumbent leadership; hoping for a Damascene conversion or some other enlightened change in leadership before it is too late to achieve this season’s objective.
At least we have done better than Aston Villa did last season. They invested about as much us Boro now and had even worse results.
Saturday was disappointing – at least the last 43 mins. And there is a lot to improve but we have not lost the war yet. That’s what I try to say. I don’t think there is need to change a manger when we sit just four points (or three points and their game in hand to Derby) from play-offs. And having won four of the last six matches.
If we won four out of six for the rest of the season, we might get promoted. And there is time to improve again. There is potential.
Up the Boro!
But surely doing better than Villa last season is no consolation.
A lot of people are referring to unrest behind the scenes – what exactly is supposed to have happened?
BoroPhil it is easy to say there is unrest behind the scenes “from what I have heard” or “the rumour is” because you don’t or can’t prove or disprove it.
I disagree that we were only good for “13”, “20” or “30” minutes against Derby, most people, if not all who sit around me and a lot of people on the concourse at half time agreed it was a good match between to good teams but Boro could and should have been leading 2 – 1, if not 3 – 1.
Everyone was confident that Boro would come back in the second half and go on to win the match, who could have predicted the chaos of 15, yes 15 minutes at the beginning of the second half. After that it was damage limitation, now I read that Braithwaite has quickly gone from one of the best buys of the season to an average championship player !
I still retain my support for Gary Monk even if we don’t achieve promotion this season as I have stated before, I believe the target set by SG is promotion in the two years of parachute payments. I have never managed a professional football team and I only see the players on a home match day, so I don’t know how, during the preceding week, the players are mentally, physically and their attitude during training, to know who should and shouldn’t be in the matchday squad, let alone the starting eleven.
Traore is a prime example, he has a very good game, two assists and everyone clamours for him to be in the starting eleven. He then gets recklessly sent off, comes on as a late sub, after his ban and gives away a late stupid penalty which costs us points, also during the period manages to miss the team coach on a matchday, people then say don’t let him anywhere near the Riverside, let alone the squad. Now he is back as an impact sub (in my opinion the best he is at the moment) but now people say he should have been brought on earlier or even in the starting eleven.
Clayton, another example, who has not even made the squad in recent weeks. People have been saying what has happened, is he on the naughty step, the usual suspects come out with I have heard he has had a bust up with Monk, he was not GM’s purchase so doesn’t fit. The surprising thing is, prior to him losing his place, people complained he was “tippy tappy” football, always passing sideways or backwards, can’t score a goal to save his life then when he is dropped from the squad it’s “where has our world beater gone”. After Saturday, it’s comments like “I can see now why he hasn’t played”.
As a manager you are “damned if you do and damed if you don’t “ and everybody knows better than you the starting eleven you should be playing. Since I came back from Northern Ireland and got my first season ticket at the start of the McClaren era 2001, I have read how people have wanted each and every manager out and it doesn’t matter who comes in to replace them very soon after they want that manager out, some want them out before they are appointed lol.
A friend of mine who was a original red book member, told me about 2/3 seasons before we were relegated that he was not renewing next season, when I asked him why he said “I would rather we were in the championship, where we would win a number of games and have a chance of promotion (without getting back in the Premiership) and be able to have a couple of good runs without having to “rest” players for the next league game, than getting beat or struggling for a draw every week to avoid relegation “. He went on to say that teams in the championship (and below) were more evenly balanced and therefore you had more entertaining games because any team could beat any other on any given day. He now only goes to watch non league matches in the northeast.
Come on BORO.
Great read Exmil.
As a usual suspect I know Clayton and Monk have had a bust up!
*couple of good cup runs
Come on BORO.
Yes, we’ll soon be saying that we can now concentrate on the FA Cup.
The result on Saturday was nothing short of appalling, to lose to a team we are competing directly with at home by three goals will be a huge blow to the morale of the squad. One it may be difficult to recover from.
My expectation this season was for the Boro to be competing for a top two place with a minimum of a 50/50 chance of achieving that.
As it stands we’re currently 50/50 for the play offs.
When Gary Monk arrived I looked at his Leeds record, Leeds last season had an excellent defensive record, perfect was my thinking. A man who makes sure his teams keep it tight at the back but plays attractive football and his teams score goals.
We then buy several attacking players with the aim presumably of meeting the objective of scoring more. But, despite Assombalonga being one of the divisions leading scorers we’re not scoring enough goals. ie the rest of the team aren’t playing their part and scoring enough. Combined with our ability to concede first (how many times have we done that this year?), keep doing that and morale starts to suffer. Which is where I fear we are now.
Since Karanka left both Friend and Ayala have been lesser players, maybe they are characters that reacted positively to his authoritarian style? But, for sure the defence isn’t what it was.
As for the strikers, as Borophil says, we’re creating plenty of chances, the tactics for which we can give the manager credit for, missing chances is down to the players.
As for ‘something needs to change’, yes it does the team needs to change in respect that performances need to become much more consistent and there needs to be more determination from the players not to concede.
Changing the manager because its the easiest thing to do is madness. I’m not a massive Gary Monk fan, simply because Boro have failed to deliver to date, but I don’t believe sacking him will change anything.
Things may click for Boro and we may go on a run which entrenches us firmly in the top six, finishing first is gone I think, 15 points is too much to close in half a season. Even being the optimist I am I cant see us making second, so my hope is to finish in the top six.
Its proving to be a disappointing season, we’re at a watershed now, the players either man up and start performing or we become a top ten side.
As for rumours of dressing room ‘unrest’ they always circulate when a team is under performing, rumours are just that.
It is slightly different on the blog this season because the matches are streamed overseas (even though not by MFC), the ten minute highlights give a much better overview, the full match is there to be watched and gloat if we win.
We have Werder’s excellent previews and RR’s just as if you were there reports. We have the likes of OFB who goes and his insights from his nuggets of information
All this means the debate is much broader and more measured.
As a remote but not overseas supporter I don’t have the ready access to live coverage but can make the odd observation.
There are some parallels to our current situation and the end of Gates reign.
The headline when Gate left was that we were a couple of points off top position, forgive me if I am not totally accurate but of our 23 points only a few had been gained from teams in the top half of the table. This season 6 out of our 29 came against teams currently in the top half.
We lost three home games in a row starting with the 5-0 thrashing by the Baggies. That is what prompted the change, a belief we would not compete at the top of the table.
There is a difference in that under Gate we had been relegated as wimps and instead of spending a fortune we had a fire sale to try and plug the gaps in finances.
We bought in Strachan and that went belly up, in part that was due to buying players on the fringes, lacking game time and especially fitness.
So what do we do, stick or twist? There is no right or wrong answer.
If we stick with Monk it may well come right, the difficulty is that if matches go by and we bob along just outside the play offs then it points the finger at coaching and the players. It is never just one or the other.
Last season it was change AK or go down. My view was change AK and we will still go down. His time was up and the squad were not good enough.
Where do we go from here? I cant see Gibson making a change for some time yet. The key will be whether the first half performance on Saturday was the harbinger of good things to come or a one of those cameos most clubs have.
As more matches go by the words of the disgraced Rolf Harris as he painted a picture spring to my mind ‘can you see what it is yet?’
I would be happy to see Ayala in the starting eleven soon again.
His first yellow was caused by a terrible back pass and he needed to do something for the team.
The penalty was caused in similar way – a horrible back pass. OK he was clumsy but I think the Derby player used the stretched leg to fall over and get a penalty kick.
Ayala was really mad when he got the second yellow. That was all his fault and stupid if you had a yellow already.
Rest him a match and two and let’s see how Fry does while he is away. Hopefully Ayala will learn and be back again. Up the Boro!
Well, as it was I believe TWO yellow cards then a red and not a yellow and then a red, Ayala will be suspended for only ONE game.
I would reinstate him after that one match, I still think he is the second best CB. Still Fry (or will it be Shotton) may have a blinder against Bristol and keep his place. Or we may get battered, then who knows who Mr Monk will pick.
It’s strange, but a fact, that throughout my time of watching the Boro they have often been what I would call a mercurial team. There are numerous instances to back up that fact, but I’ll just choose two to illustrate the point.
In October1954 Boro beat West Ham 6-0, seven days later they lost 0-9 at Blackburn, then the next match beat third placed Fulham 4-2.
More recently in 2009 after not winning for five matches, Strachan got his first win – a 5-1 win at QPR, and we all thought that might have been the turning point for a push at least towards the playoffs Three days later we lost 0-3 at home to Blackpool and we all remember how that season ended. There’s no logical reason why these mercurial sequences occur, it just seems at times to be ingrained in our DNA.
What we have now though seems to be a reversal of form from the first half of a match to the second half. It would also seem that the players don’t seem to know their role or function in the team. Having just watched Burnley against Arsenal, Dyce’s players seem to know exactly what their functions are, and were unlucky to lose albeit to a legitimate penalty. Were Burnley a better team than Boro two years ago? I don’t think so, but they have progressed whilst we have retarded. Boro’s players haven’t suddenly become bad players, but lack direction and seem confused as to their roles. That signifies to me a problem with the coaching staff.
What I do think is that Ayala was very lucky not to have been sent off at Leeds with his manhandling. His tactics may show a lack of confidence through being under pressure to retain his place in the team. The referee was very lenient with him that day, and I was pleased to see that the referee in yesterday’s Burnley match was much stricter in his interpretation of the rules.
One unrelated observation I would like to mention is that I find some of the goalscoring celebrations unnecessary. I can understand the jubilation in scoring a goal, especially a winning one in the last minute, but I consider sliding along the turf and causing several ridges to be an act of vandalism with no thought given to the repair work needed by the ground staff. I would imagine those of us with beautiful lawns wouldn’t be too happy if someone scarified our lawns in such a manner. So please, spare a thought for the poor groundsman!
You don’t have to take my word but they are not rumours
I heard a rumour that some people don’t believe the rumours they hear that OFB has been caught spreading rumours about the internal relationships at Boro that are rumoured (or not) to have broken down, for fear that if the rumours are true then the word on the street [i.e. rumour to you and me] has no basis in fact even though all the rumours indicate to the contrary…..
Me, I’m just rheumatic me …
IS that rumour ?
That is ominous, I got two likes from bloggers based in Spain.
No one expected the Spanish Inquisition………
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI&list=RDTym0MObFpTI#t=47
Maybe this how the team instructions go
Didn’t you know AK and Leo read this blog ?
De Pena’s debut? It wasn’t all bad. Heck, if you watched the video highlights of the 3-0 win over Wolves, in which he had a hand in all three goals, you’d think it was a good one.
That was the pinnacle of his Boro career, talk about peaking too soon!
ofb – I’m going to challenge you. If they aren’t rumours are you saying players in the current squad have told you directly that there is ‘dressing room unrest’ and if so how exactly is that ‘unrest’ defined.
I think OFB is in between a rock and hard place if he answers that one on an open forum. It may not necessarily have come from a member of the playing side, if a tea lady (tea person to be PC these days) saw a full blazing argument it doesn’t make the source any less credible than coming from a Player. Keep in mind the Gazette two!
On Saturday lunchtime I posted that Clayts would be returning to the bench as a minimum but that there were doubts over Grant and that Clayts may even be starting. OFB confirmed around an hour or so later that Clayts would indeed be starting. Neither of us communicated on the topic other than on here so wherever Bob gets his info from is pretty unlikely to be my source. It was second hand to me so we can call it a rumour which is fine but if things like that are pretty darn accurate what reason would we have to doubt other snippets of information?
Well said RR and I for one am pleased to hear these snippets at source
Let’s face it we don’t post these to create rumours and bad press we are only trying to keep others informed
I’ll just keep quiet In future then everyone will be happy
OFB
NO need for a challenge
I know what I heard on Saturday first hand
The thing is
You don’t have to believe me and that is fine by me
I never used the term dressing room unrest as that would imply a major problem with all the players and that is not the case
In my unsubstantiated post and rumour
Redcar – that’s my point, if it comes from the tea boy or anybody else indirectly, they put their own slant on it. We all do. The person passing it on then adds their own slant etc. Its unsubstantiated and at risk of growing in the telling, thus a rumour develops. I’m not asking ofb to name names, I’m well aware of possible sensitivities.
If for example the ‘fact’ that Clayton has had a row with Monk is the issue, that’s not dressing room ‘unrest’ in my mind. In fact ‘dressing room unrest’ is a phrase bordering on the cliché.
Rumours are damaging, the season is proving to be hard enough as it is.
I think we should all leave OFB’s veracities alone.
We all love a rumour and we like the facts even more. The season is hard enough as it stands but leave it to Boro I’m sure they’ll make it a bit harder yet.
UTB,
John
If the same source has reliable information which in the past has proven to be correct e.g. Saturday and Clayts starting in my case for example why would I or Bob disbelieve what we are being told? Was Clayton starting a rumour or a fact? As it turned out it was bang on the money, my take on it is that it was a piece of information which turned out to be accurate.
A few weeks previous I gave what I believed to be the team (can’t remember which game) well before 2.00 o’clock on here and it turned out to be spot on. There are other things which I have strong reason to doubt so I don’t print them and I’m certain Bob will be the same unless he is pretty confident.
Last Season we were being told what a happy camp it was and the players were being trotted out to repeat the same week after week. A few of us heard differently and chose to believe the alternative version, it was only after Aggers “disappeared” that the real truth came spewing out which was actually worse than what I was lead to believe.
Everything in life in theory is a cause for doubt if it is being told to you by someone else and you haven’t personally witnessed it. The real problem is when someone deliberately starts something deceitful which has little or no foundation or when someone attempts to cover something unpalatable up. I don’t believe that to be the case from anyone on here.
A far greater concern to me is when individuals or organisations try and control all the news and information, feeding us spin in the process. Don’t get me wrong I fully agree that unfounded rumours and gossip can damage businesses and individuals alike, even Governments but its equally true that history is littered with examples of cover ups and denials which have been even more damaging. As in all things balance and perspective is required.
To perhaps put it in perspective Sky Sports has a “Rumours” page which is supposed to be a bit of fun and banter. Some of it is near the knuckle, some of it is nonsense and some nailed on. http://www.skysports.com/football/transfer-rumours
WELL SAID
AFTER ALL WE ONLY HAVE THE BORO AT HEART
OFB and RR please keep you snippets coming. I look forward to a bit of insider info and personally don’t see what possible damage it can do to squad morale. Or are the players so precious that they would get upset. If that’s the case then I’m afraid they are, imo, in the wrong, well paid, high profile, business.
We will probably never get to the bottom of Karanka gate at Charlton, unless one of those involved puts it in a book, but it was obvious there were divisive issues at the club at the time which carried over to last season as well. They weren’t rumours were they? They turned out to be real issues which had a far reaching effect on our poor form all season.
I would rather have these snippets from OFB and RR than some garbage spewed out in an interview trying to put a load of spin on a poor result. I’m sure we all remember some of the utter rubbish spouted by “Magnificent” McClaren.
Just my own opinion Nigel, others differ and that is the beauty of a blog like Diasboro.
Just keep on with the rumours Bob
Don’t forget to switch off the keyboard ‘Caps Lock’ button. Rumour is that you left it on deliberately 😃
Top 10 clubs with the highest net spend this season:
1) @swfc (13.23m)
2) @ReadingFC (12.18m)
3) @Wolves (12.17m)
4) @BCFC (11.66m)
5) @Boro (11.54m)
6) @bcfctweets (8.13m)
7) @SUFC_tweets (3.2m)
8) @Official_ITFC (3.02m)
9) @CardiffCityFC (2.89m)
10) @pnefc (1.02m)
Are these facts or just rumour – just saying like 😂 😎
Where is Sunderland in the list, Bob? Bottom three I would imagine.
Anyway money help but never quarantee success. This is football after all.
Up the Boro!
Good comment RR
OFB I think Boro (11.54m) does not include the fee for Stuani, which has not been disclosed due a “privacy clause” but has been widely “estimated” at 3.15m.
Come on BORO.
GHW
Not a Downing fan then I take it.
If the rest of the squad were anywhere near his ability, in their respective positions of course, we would indeed be smashing the league. Only my opinion mind.
I’d like to see his Goals/Assists stats.
0 goals 1 assist I believe. Still our best footballer imo.
“we are only trying to keep others informed”
except we aren’t particularly informed are we!
I’m sure your intentions are good but
“there is dressing room unrest”
“what is the unrest”
“can’t say”
doesn’t really leave me any more the wiser!
BP
Nobody said “can’t say”, Bob printed very clearly that Clayts and GM have had a bust up and he also said GM thinks Paddy is lazy, that wasn’t open to any interpretation, that is the “dressing room unrest”.
What is open to interpretation is that if the above is true then that to me would not be indicative of a happy camp. Other interpretations (storm in a teacup or handbags at three o’clock) are available as is the benefit of the doubt or not about Bob’s sources and their accuracy. It maybe a total and complete fabrication and deliberate misinformation or as Donald likes to term it “Fake News” or like Clayton starting or my earlier team leak deadly accurate.
I recall during the summer when Bob hinted at a “rumoured” big signing nobody complained or questioned the accuracy or integrity of his comment. Professionals have had their careers jeopardised over we think possibly saying something about something but we don’t know what because supposedly the Gazette lads themselves don’t know and to this day are all still in the dark. With that back drop I would be galled if OFB revealed who said what exactly.
From his hard work and dedication in keeping this blog alive and kicking I do not for one second doubt the authenticity of Bob’s snippets. What on earth would he have to gain? We read garbage on other sites from attention seekers who constantly embarrass themselves with ludicrous claims and statements, that is not the case on here as history has borne out previous “rumours”.
For what its worth I wouldn’t be bothered if both Clayts and Monk departed the club I don’t think either are irreplaceable but I would be concerned if Bamford left, the same way I was when Albert left. With Albert there are two opposing versions of events, one which Ian believes and one which I believe. It’s similar to Downing, GHW sees the same player as I do but we have completely different views on his performances. The same applies to opinions on what goes on behind the scenes and whether we choose to believe it or not, just don’t shoot the messenger.
Good reply RR.
Don’t shoot the messenger ?
I’ll drink to that RR
Fancy having a chat with Alan Peacock!amd I up at Carlton Blackwell Ox one Friday afternoon when you can fix getting away early ?
OFB
RR
People will believe what they want to suit their own opinions or agenda. We all do it. I think Downing is the best footballer at the club, others with differing opinions don’t. Doesn’t mean either of us is correct.
Bob
Just saw your invite, apologies. I’m up for that, let me know and I will see what the diary permits!
RR
If you give me a couple of dates and say 13:00 hours or 14:00 hours for time I’ll send a text to AP. He doesn’t do email
I appreciate it has to fit into your work schedule I’m one of the retired people !
Don’t know how you fit in the match reports…
OFB
I’ve sent a response for you I don’t know if any of the other bloggers want to come along all welcome
OFB
I love peeking out through the net curtains me….keep that gossip coming guys. It is, above all else, excellent for stimulating discussion and debate which is one of the great incentives for coming here in the first place. We can all take whatever we read with as big a pinch of salt as we see fit or alternative decide we trust the messenger and her (or his) sauce. No need to get too much on the front foot with each other about it.
There’s a cure for dressing room unrest.
January Transfer Window
Bob,
The ‘insider’ information that you provide is unquestionably, along with Werder’s pieces and RR’s match reports, one of the key ingredients of the blog. It’s the nearest we get to the confidences which AV used to gift to us on UntypicalBoro, insights which couldn’t be published in the Gazette, but which were genuinely illuminating even if they could not always be authentically sourced.
I can well understand your point that if it’s not appreciated you’ll stop doing it.
I’m posting immediately to say that as far as I’m concerned your contributions are vital, and the importance of your work on behalf of the blog tremendously well appreciated. Your information hotline has been spot on in the past, and form an important link to the club for those of us who are so far away from the action.
And your contributions overall tend to be pithy, funny, to the point, and generally very accurate. They are the glue that holds this invaluable blog together, and I hope that in spite of a couple of naysayers that you will continue to give us the benefit of your insights with your customary generosity and goodwill.
Thanks Len appreciated
I’ve been talking to Werder about a series of interviews I’m planning to do with ex players and officials of the club to hopefully fill in the blank spots we get during the international break.
The first one is ready to be put forward to our Blogmeister for editorial control and for him to work some magic with the visual display
It was a long chat I have had with Jim Platt who is a nice guy and still lives in Teesside.
Jim also has a dry wit and a great supprter of the Boro
Other interviews are lined up with John Hendrie and Alan Peacock who both have a tale to tell.
Hopefully readers of the blog will find these as interesting to read as it is going to be talking to these great players who performed so well for our club.
As an aside Jim Platt reads the preview and match report of our blog !
Well done Werder and Redcar Red for making it so professional
OFB. I’m really looking forward to these articles. Thanks for making them happen.
I have played a few years football and my highlight of my career is scoring a goal past Jim Platt in a friendly sanoit five years ago. And he joined us after the match for a dinner. A gentleman.
Looking forward to reading the interview, Bob. Up the Boro!
I’ll second that Len.
Me too.
So okay then , rumours / subterfuge / who said this and who said that etc …what we want to know is where the hell is Agnew lol…is it not very strange that the club and the Gazette have not revealed what happened to him. Why no comment ?.
OFB , I’m sure you must know something to put us all out of our curiosity. Not that I am bothered like !!
As far as I know he is still being paid up on his contract and continuing his gardening leave in between gong to his place in Portugal
He is a nice guy and so are his family whom I’ve met socially briefly
Lots of us have been saying for a long time GM is not delivering the results by himself and may benefit from having a trusted No.2 at his side.
Steve Agnew is still on the payroll and is trusted by the playing staff and by the executive. Surely it would make sense to tell GM that Aggers is now his assistant and that he (GM) is expected to make good and full use of Agger’s experience.
Someone else was pointing out in here that perhaps GM was only successful with his previous lieutenant at his side. It certainly wouldn’t cost us anything to try with Agnew, and who knows they just might gel well together as a team and we will find that elusive formula.
Or Higgy – the chap we signed exactly 25 years ago? Just saying, like.
Are there any palns to hire an assistant or is the management team completed already?
Up the Boro!
Aggers is playing much golf these days and trying to avoid a repetition of having to wade into the lake to rescue his runaway, recently-new-but-already-Christened golf buggy and clubs. A mind of its own, that buggy. The things people get up to when “in the garden”.
Of course, regular dog-walking is part of the agenda, and keeping up the suntan whist free movement around Europe is still no problem. Life can be hard but, then again, Aggers isn’t responsible for the club having got rid of a large section of its management, and then deciding to put him on gardening leave.
Strange industry, football. Imagine a situation where a new Chief Executive was appointed in charge of Marks & Spencer, and that new CEO brought with him a new manager for each M+S store despite the fact they already have managers and that the new people know nothing about the staff in each shop! Or a new Head Teacher is appointed to a school who insists on bringing with him his own Deputy Head and Heads of each department (English, Maths, Sciences, Languages, PE, Humanities etc) despite the fact other people may have been happily doing those jobs at the time the old Head left his post!
Football – the industry with its own rules and where economics is made to stand on its head.
A quick trip in to cliché land.
Come Saturday will it be all ship shape and Bristol fashion or will we have gone Bristol City’s up ( you know what I mean!).
5.15 kick off, a long old day waiting for the match but what will we get.
Plenty of debate before then. Even the Gazette boys are questioning what is going on.
At least I haven’t been banned from the ground yet although I’m hoping !
“Bob printed very clearly that Clayts and GM have had a bust up and he also said GM thinks Paddy is lazy,”
Thanks – I think this was the bit I had missed.
Finally found Boro’s recruitment programme…. worth reading the whole thing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41966203
Redcar Red
Just noticed the bit about our different beliefs of the Albert ‘chain of events’.
My chain of events was chronological, I never commented about the fact I think Albert and AK are unlikely to go on holiday together. There was clearly friction between them.
I don’t know what went on between them, I don’t know their chemistry, I suspect it was like phosphorous, ok when oiled but pyrotechnics when exposed!
I like events to be in the right order, the reasons for the events are a different kettle of fish.
Going back to GHW and his ask on SD´s stats and assists, well we know the answer to that, not a lot.
Whilst I can agree with RR and others that he was one of only 2 or 3 that came out of the Derby match with any credit it is his overall contribution that I argue against, and others of course who have not fulfilled what in said on the tin.
The majority of his crosses either from corners or from deep, as very few are from the by-line are defenders balls. He cannot beat his man, fair enough, not a complaint as such, so his balls are generally to a facing defender, which are meat and drink to theses guys.
We rely so much on Britt to score our goals….if he does not then usually we do not win. I guess Ken will say if I am right or wrong on that.
No goals from midfield, so I can see why we bought Howson, top Championship midfielder. 6 goals last year and 9 in the year Norwich beat Boro at Wembley. Where are the goals from Braithwaite, because we are still waiting, And others aswell. We are not creating in my opinion sufficient real opportunities.
Derby had a dismal record at the Riverside prior to last Saturday, so was a Derby win so unexpected? Well, Boro’s record away to Sheffield Wednesday, Nottm Forest and Ipswich was fairly dire up to three years ago, but we won there recently, so maybe a loss home to Derby shouldn’t have been ruled out. Poor crumbs for comfort?
A 0-3 home defeat against promotion rivals does sound disastrous, but Brighton suffered a similar home reverse to Boro two years ago. Boro got promoted, Brighton lost in the playoffs, but got promotion the next season and are doing fairly well this season. Could Boro follow the same pattern? Reach the playoffs this season but lose in the semifinal, get promotion the following season, then reestablish themselves in the Premier League after that. Clutching at straws? Perhaps. But I just thought it might lighten the mood on this forum.
Ken
Your scenario of missing out on promotion this season and going up next does not fill me with any comfort.
I believe we should be expecting more of the team/management particularly in the light of SG’s pre season statement and the investment in new players.
Why should we not be matching the achievements of clubs such as Bournemouth, Burnley, Watford, Hull.
They are no bigger or better resourced yet it always seems to be the Boro who almost always seem to do things the hard way.
I fear that if we miss out this season then we are going to be consigned to the Championship for a protracted period. It seems to happen to many a club, Villa and Wolves being examples.
I certainly do not think GM will get us up next season if he can’t do it this season. This assumes of course that he is still with us next season.
I think Burnley spent quite many years in the lower leagues before got promoted to the Champioship. So most of the football fans do suffer. We also. UTB!
I did question whether I was clutching at straws. You have just answered my question.
Albert was no different from the players who outgrew AK and the club’s control over them. I reckon his refusal to sign a new deal was the clearest sign that he would no longer be subservient to the needs of the collective.
I know Spock – and he’s always right, right? – said the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and all that, but sometimes the needs of the few need to be placated for the greater long-term benefits of the many.
I think Simon that is indeed what happened and as a consequence we are back where we started but with a little more cash if that helps ease the pain (which for me it doesn’t).
There was a complete personality (suspect culturally also) mis match and we paid the price probably based on the belief that the computer analysis that GHW references above told AK and Orta that we were getting a younger, faster, better, Spanish speaking Albert. On that rock AK built his Premiership dream team (along with a few other native Spanish speakers), history tells the rest of the tale.
Lighthearted smiles and a jovial attitude was not something fully appreciated as Higgy also found out. I often wonder if AK reflects back and has learnt any lessons and would do some things differently or is he still blinkered, determined and obstinate as ever? No doubt we will find out wherever he pops up next, I think its the difference in him being a two year or maybe three year wonder (like his mentor) or a really great Manager like his Mentors Mentor!.
The instance of supposedly “nullifying” creative forces is not unique to modern, foreign coaching however. Graham Taylor was maligned for never believing in Matt Le Tissier. Yet neither Venables nor Hoddle gave him a lucky break with England either – and you couldn’t argue with their records.
I think, as far back as 1995, I read in FourFourTwo that in Le Tissier, “Venables would have the key to unlock the tightest defences in the world. But therein lies the Le Tissier enigma. England managers have long been wary of putting all their creative eggs in one basket… So unless Le Tiss can learn to play more of a bit-part international role, he’s likely to suffer the same fate as Glenn Hoddle, who didn’t win half the caps he could have, not because he wasn’t good enough, but because he was too good.”
I recall McManaman at Euro 96 and how he didn’t seem as effective as he did for Liverpool… and then it all made sense.
Simon
I agree about Albert.
The interesting thing is that Pep drops players if they don’t conform to his way of playing – Aguerro for instance. They have to do the tracking back as well as the pretty stuff.
I don’t think Albert was averse to working hard and tracking back, it made him a far better player. He was probably averse to working with AK. In that event Albert did the right thing and maybe so did the club.
Redcar Red
Posts overlapped. I agree with your response to Simon.
Managers and players don’t always get on, sometimes it is an impossible situation. We replaced Albert with someone who had explosive pace but no brain.
It has proved a poor swap as far as I am concerned.
We got a raw player in the swap. Albert was my favourite player of the Mogga/AK era. Still missing him.
Anyway, when I see Traore now, he seems to be delivering nice passes and good center more often than last season. Actually he seems to be learning still – so there is hope. But he is so much less experienced that Adomah was that you cannot compare the two individuals.
Up the Boro!
I see Derby play their game in hand at home tonight against Ipswich. A win would see them put a serious gap between them and us of 6 points, level with Villa and Bristol City then become our nearest contender for a Play Off position. A win for Boro at Bristol would still leave us two points behind the Cider drinkers, a defeat would leave us a startling 8 points adrift from them.
Should however Ipswich get a result at Derby that would leave them level on points with us tonight. Assuming they don’t win by 4 goals or more we would still remain above them on GD. Whatever happens tonight it puts our current predicament under more pressure for these next two games. I’m past feeling that they are “must win” games because I don’t have the belief or confidence that the current set up is remotely capable of achieving anything against sides in the top half, we simply aren’t good enough, why is another story.
It does however present an incredible against all odds opportunity to come out and show us what they are really made of, lets hope that they do. The alternative (shudders) would I think make for a really difficult situation at the Ipswich home game. If we are well adrift of Derby, Villa and Bristol come December 9th and things are going sour against Ipswich at the Riverside our season will be perceived as effectively over (emotionally rather than statistically of course) before Christmas. That scenario was not remotely contemplated by anyone connected with the club. As the poem goes “Therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee”.
RR
The nightmare scenario that you depict toward the end of your post is to my mind a distinct possibility and yet another “typical Boro” situation.
If it does pan out that way then what does SG do, stick until the play offs become mathematically beyond us or twist and try and replace with a manager who will have the benefit of the January window to tweak the squad and give it a go?
My money is on the former as SG acted early in the case of Gate and came unstuck so I suspect that still haunts him and impacts his decision making.
I just hope for once that we do an untypical Boro and win at Bristol City but I am not holding my breath.
In fact after Saturday’s debacle I am not exactly looking forward to this Saturday as I could not cope with another nightmare performance.
Can I tick like for the post and dislike for what it so gloomily outlines?
Ian
Fee free to do as you see fit. You can even put the positive viewpoint – if you can find one!
I agree with you that we have proved so far this season that are not good enough, or perhaps not ORGANISED well enough. The Gazette reporters are making observations that our record against the bottom teams is 100% but abysmal against teams in the top half of the league. We’ll surely that is what one would expect from a mediocre team (which one must admit is what we are based on performances so far) – winning against the poorer teams, usually losing against better organised teams than us. The same goes for making mistakes; far less likely against poorer teams than us, but under more pressure against better organised teams than us. One would also come to the same conclusion about scoring goals. So how do Boro become better organised? Of course that’s up to the coaching staff. That’s the conundrum!
Even “feel”!
GHW above got me thinking about assists with Downing in particular and Boro in general. Looking at the following Downing is nowhere to be seen which implies that perhaps GHW is indeed correct and that Stewy is rubbish.
http://www.espnfc.com/english-league-championship/24/statistics/assists
So that means that there are other Boro players who have been far more productive, positive and direct except that out of the fifty players listed not one single solitary Boro player makes the list (unless you count Cattermole and Reach). I don’t know who or how these “assists” are compiled but if that list is accurate (have to admit to being sceptical) then its a pretty damning one.
Whilst GHW’s point was with Downing the fact that no single Boro player makes that list is unbelievable. I think it highlights if proof was needed that the obsession we have on here at times with Windscreen wiper football, Cryuff turns and pass back to Randolph has a serious cost at the important end of the pitch. Possession, possession, pass back, possession retained, pass back, possession, to you, to me is great statistically but as the stats for the Derby game shows the draw back is that the team with the most goals get the most points not the side with the most possession.
It points to the moribund tactics and lack of creativity in the side, if only we had players who had skill and ability instead of being brilliant simply knackering themselves in training!
That got me thinking about “Lazy” footballers, its funny when I started thinking about who was/is labelled to be lazy at some point in their careers a few immediately sprung to mind, Kanu, Podolski, Ibrhamivic, Riquelme, Robinho, Berbatov, Adebayor, Tevez and going back a bit further George Best wasn’t exactly renowned for being the first one on the training pitch and last off it. Maybe “relaxed style” is different to “lazy”, I know I would love to have all those lazy players in their prime at Boro it would be a real yawn I’m sure winning every week!
Done some digging and here are some quotes to ponder:
https://talksport.com/magazine/big-picture/2011-07-27/lazy-footballers-berbatov-bendtner-taarabt-lineker-and-more?p=0
I clearly remember somebody once saying, about Denis Law, ‘he did nothing all game well, except score a hat-trick’. Says it all really.
UTB,
John
RR
It’s interesting to note that Braithwaite is also considered to be a lazy player by people within the club!
Not so much, rubbish RR, but what is he actually contributing?
The same can indeed be said for the rest of the squad, in fact going back quite a few seasons now. I’ve often said we don’t create goal scoring chances on a regular basis, mainly I think because our style of play is too static.
The best sides shift the ball quickly because they have players capable of doing it. Our average players do it as a safety first policy. This is why Ramirez stood out for us. He had the ability to think and execute quickly.
It all comes down to recruitment, and we are still woeful in that dept. Bamford failed at his previous club’s after leaving here, yet we still bought him back. Fletcher was bought on perhaps a promise of future development. Braithwaite flatters to deceive and don’t get me started on Shotton and Howson.
Some, I think, would argue that the AK collective’s power was dead post-Charlton. I personally think the wheels came off in the FA Cup defeat to Burnley. Rouwen Hennings scored that goal from nothing and the aura of invincibility was no more.
Intermittent individual brilliance (Gaston? Adama?) or dramatic moments (Rhodes at Bolton?) were mainly the order of the day after that, hinting at what might have been had AK been a little more open-minded and a little less touchy.
And yes, I stuck by the regime at the time. But when the results are mostly the right ones and/or when there is, for the most part, only one goal, one chance, one mistake or one right final ball making the difference, you’ll forgive a lot.
It took SmoggyInTheHeed and Richard Evans (“We’re always one mistake away from a point… that can only be an excuse for so long”) to finally help me realise it was the end. Palace and Stoke cemented it.
PS ‘Twas similar under Mogga too. I never particularly wanted him to leave. It took the nasty atmosphere at Barnsley (for Aitor, read Stoke) to finally convince the hierarchy to call it a day.
PSS A new Talking Point is coming…
If you continually pass backwards you are moving away from your opponents goal and getting closer to your own. In fact, doing the oppositions job for them.
Downing may be capable of a square cross field ball from one side of the pitch to the other, but what is that actually achieving? Quick incisive passing is the order of the day, and sadly we don’t have the players to do it.
The reason Pulis and Allardyce are successful is because they play to their playing personnel’s deficiencies. They miss out the build up play. Just stay solid at the back and hope that the chances that come their way are converted.
GHW
Those cross field balls are the main outlet we have of digging ourselves out of self imposed defence to launch an attack. The fact that it is inevitably Downing who digs the ball out from the back and splays the ball out to Fabio is one of the reasons why I think he is one of our better players but you are 100% correct about the quick incisive passing, it just doesn’t exist. I put that down to poor quality recruitment and even poorer tactics and selection.
A Post Christmas Slump
Steve Gibson dozed in his room dreaming of the transfer window when he is woken by a chill presence. He looks up and there is an apparition looking remarkably like Keith Lamb.
Who are you? asked Steve
I am the ghost of transfer windows past replies the ghostly figure.
What are you doing here? asks Steve
Come with me says the ghost as he beckons to Steve.
Suddenly Steve is back in autumn sunlight and at the Riverside. In front of him is a samba band, Brian Robson and a little chap.
That’s TLF shouts Steve and he runs over and tells him we will win a cup. But TLF can’t hear. Time flashes by with Ravanelli arriving but they move on to see sad scenes of defeats at Wembley and the awful scenes of relegation.
They move forward to a Sunday in Cardiff. See, it wasn’t all bad said Steve.
They on to the following summer to see a broken hearted TLF moved out of the club to allow McMoses to bring in over paid mercenaries.
Then Gate takes over and Steve watches scenes of JFH, Viduka, Yak, Mendi, Rochemback, Cattermole, Morrison, Boateng, Downing, Tuncay, Huth all leaving and the arrival of Mido, Shawky, Alves, Euell, Dong Gook, Arca, Aliadiere, Folan, King, Digard, Emnes and followed by relegation.
Steve pleads, I have seen enough, please let me go back.
The ghost offers no respite as Strachan comes in followed by Mogga and the dreadful slither down the table.
At this point the ghost relents and allows Steve to go to sleep.
Steve wakes with a start and what looks like Gary Gill is stood at the bottom of the bed.
Who are you? asks Steve
I and the ghost of transfer windows present.
Where are we going? asks Steve
Suddenly they are at a press conference with stilted English.
I remember this says Steve, better days.
The summer comes and along with it the likes of Kike, Vossen, Clayton, Bamford.
Steve starts smiling but then there is a horrible dream of the team stuck in a coach and losing in the play offs.
We did come back and do better said Steve.
The scene shifts – a grim atmosphere as gloom descended. AK walking out and Steve chasing to get him back. Then lightness again as Steve’s team gets promotion.
A dark cloud descended as Orta appeared along with his proteges, they sped on to January and AK hadn’t got his Christmas presents he asked for, instead of a Maserati a Metro with no MOT and dodgy gears.
Then Gaston became Gasgone, AK went and Aggers was no better, the players collapsed and there was gloom over Teesside.
The ghost left with Steve hiding under the covers.
When he looked up there was a third apparition dressed in religious habit.
Who are you? asked Steve
I am the ghost of transfer windows to come.
Steve followed hoping for redemption.
A new window arrived with lots of new, shiny pieces but it was like Meccano without the spanner, nuts and bolts.
Another window loomed but it is as grey outside as the ghost’s habit who just stood, and watched.
Will there be a happy ending?
IAN
Great theme
I expect the ghost with the habit was a Monk ?
You may say that I couldn’t possibly comment.
Was that a hooded response ?
Quite Sandalous!
Great stuff Ian but depressing when you get to Gate’s incomings and outgoings.
I need a single malt. A suicide post.
UTB,
John
Comments such as Clayton has had a row with Monk or GM thinks Paddy doesn’t put in a shift are interesting and good to know, I for one appreciate them.
Someone taking those facts and citing dressing room unrest I object to.
Two unhappy players does not in my mind equate to dressing room unrest.
Presumably Paddy knows GM’s thinking so has a choice, fair enough. Clayton will also have a choice.
This sort of stuff must happen every week in every dressing room in the country, but it is a stretch to imply as some do that its effecting the teams performance.
Just to clarify ofb, I have no objection to you posting the snippets of inside info, quite the opposite, they add considerably to the blog.
Hopefully the above clarifies my thoughts.
Its useful to know why Paddy isn’t playing, presumably his stats show he isn’t putting in the hard yards.
That last statement may be correct Nigel. They all live and die on stats nowadays I believe. Britt will always keep his place because when he is not scoring goals, he puts the yards in. Bamford is a different player but for me worth a run in the team.
We are not scoring sufficient goals, he may be the answer. 4 or 5 games, nothing to lose as we have lost all those points already, but may be, just may be he could be the answer. I won´t hold my breath as Gestede will be on the bench Saturday.
Thanks for that Nigel
Wish I knew how to do this “like” thing but I’m largely a technology numpty. It means that when I come back to the blog after a day’s absence, I have to try and confirm agreement with a number of contributions in a summary post, so, in summary, I agree with KP completely and see things the same as RR, except where SD is concerned. On that, I’m with GHW.
On to one of my pet hates.
In general, I don’t like passes back to a GK because they, more often than not, put him under pressure. It’s ok if he has time to control the ball but, where it needs to be cleared quickly, I think defenders should opt for row Z. A number of our goals conceded so far could have been avoided if this option had been taken. I accept that the pass back to the keeper is considered useful in “game management” situation but I prefer time wasting to be carried out as far from our goal as possible.
SG wanted to see pace and flair. I’m still waiting.
As RR observed, Derby demonstrated what that means with their first goal.
Can Boro learn this skill?
Steely, of course the Boro players can learn the skill but it needs the manager to encourage it. As long as the manager tacitly or explicitly condones or worse actively coaches the sideways and backwards passing the team will keep on doing it. If we had a manager who did his nut every time the ball was moved sideways or backwards unnecessarily then it would soon stop. The big problem is that we don’t.
What is not working hard enough , I’ve always had the believe I want my forwards to work their tails off were it matters and that’s the last third , closing down defenders, or busting a gut to get into the box,
This depending on overlapping defenders ,to create chances is a red herring,
If a strker comes off to the side line, recieve the ball off a fullbacks ,then sends it down the line,for him to cross it to who?many times it’s a waste,
This is why I prefer 352, you should have more players potentially getting in scoring areas.
Bamford is a centre forward bottom line, asking him to play right-wing and right back is stupid!
The squad is overloaded in too many areas, it as to be re gigged .
And a new manager would help, but that’s just my opinion.
Last post by RR, was spot on as usual regarding lazyness.
A battle in the TV ratings war.
Come Saturday tea time BT have lost out to Sky. BT have had to settle for Arsenal v ManU, Sky get the plum game of Bristol City v the True Mighty Reds.
Sky must have more purchasing power.
Hope it’s not a custard Pie In The Sky !
Or expect more goals in our game………!
More likely Benny Hill than Melvyn Bragg. I don’t think Melvyn’s South Bank Show related to a post code in Teesside!
Well perhaps Lady Luck hasn’t deserted Garry Monk just yet. The lesser of the two evils has worked in his favour tonight as Derby lost to Ipswich 1-0 at home. Ipswich now level on points with us but behind on GD as they didn’t quite manage the required 4 goals.
We lost a battle on Saturday but not the war. Red Army.
Up the Boro!
RR
That’s one way of looking at it. The alternative is that the nightmare scenario you predicted (posted at 11.42 28/11) could unfold is beginning to come true!!
In my earlier post, I used the word “buggy”. I didn’t mean a golf “electric car” but a clubs bag on wheels. Much easier to pull out of a lake than an electric vehicle!
A good article in the EG from our former blogmiester which clearly spells out the critical nature of the next four games.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/crunch-time-middlesbrough-garry-monk-13965840
I think Bamford suffers in comparison with other players because his style is quite languid. In many ways he reminds me of Teddy Sheringham, he wasn’t quick and with modern stats probably would have sports scientists scratching their heads.
He was quick in his head, appearing in the right place with amazing regularity. Like Bamford he didn’t seem to be running hard, it probably isn’t laziness, possibly it is down to their body make up.
The problem is they are deceptive. Federer and Murray work equally hard but Federer glides rather than runs.
The problem is they are obsessed by yards when in reality it is what they do in those yards that counts. Does the sheer ability to read play and be in the right place mitigate against them? Does the fact they go from A to B without detours detract from their stats.
I don’t really know because I don’t know the measures that are used, just applying some instinct.
I think that’s a good observation and comparison.
I seem to remember Cloughie saying Sherringham was lazy
Did never see Cloughie play football but was he lazy or industrial striker?
Up the Boro!
He was noted to be economical with his efforts in defence
Defending is for defenders was his maxim
Yes. It could be all over by Christmas if we were to factor in the usual post Christmas slump. We must, however, cling to the hope that “typical” Boro prove us naysayers wrong.
I came across a round table of Gerrard ,Lambard and Ferdinand on some show on utube,
Discussing obviously their history playing,including England etc, managers they were under, tactics, you name it,
Gerrard and Lampard want to be managers, Rio was open to it ,whilst Lampard and Garrard talked about working hard,Rio was very pragmaic, he was aware off the field life,getting in early,doing the things needed, for me he understood, what it takes.he came across as someone who will not take kindly to idiots .
There was more to it than that,but if he decides to become a manager,he will be successful.
Mr Gibson
Hello
Amongst all the despair (justified) on the blog we seem to be in denial about the quite awful shambles we have brought on ourselves as a club.
The refusal to face the bleeding obvious.
Faced with players rocking the boat(poor ones at that) we blithely sacked the manager(record, oh, I don’t know, play off final, auto. Promo, great defence, looking like relegation) he has got to go. Yeah, right. We expect a better record that that.(we have not had a better record than that for eleven years and counting.
Faced with the chance of saving ourselves(we had got rid of the cause of our problems, after all) we proceeded to crash and burn with shameful abandon.
We now are back where we were when AK walked through the door.
Strangely we have got rid of the problem we had (not conceding goals)
We have not solved the problem which cost us all the grief, scoring goals.
Our players are worthless, our signings are worse, our discipline is non existent, our tactics are worse,(we, of course, have players rocking the boat, and why not they got away with it last time)
Final point. Derby were well turned over last night, which agrees with my view of them on Saturday, rubbish, which is not good news for us.
Plato
Karanka did a great job in getting us over the promotion finish line with a great defence, but in the Premier league he failed quite miserably because those goal scoring chances that came up in the Champo were far more scant and he was unable or more likely as far as I’m concerned unwilling to change his style of play.
As for poor players rocking the boat! If memory serves the incident you’re referring to happened nearly a year previous. If Aitor was such a good manager surely he could have sorted out those who did, and according to your post still are rocking the boat. Aitor failed when he had the chance due to his methods and no one else’s.
FAA
When your club has internal problems the chairman sacks the players responsible.
There is no other way, AK did not have the power to fire the problem, unfortunately that pleasure belongs to the chairman.
It passes belief that we are there again in the same situation, this time different manager.
I wonder what the excuse will be this time.
As for the obsessing about getting relegated, it should be obvious to any supporter that disorganisation is torture for the fan.
AK brought organisation, in capital letters, to this club.
We enjoyed three years of actually going forward, buy four players, sell three of them four months later(for a profit) buy another four, and repeat the exercise.
What we face is an unknown term of chaotic playing of our fixtures not knowing what on earth we are going to see.
Whatever the season was in the Prem. It was not chaotic. It was a team with a very good defence, and a very bad forward line.
There was no reason in the world why we should not have been the most experienced team this season, tucked up in the top three and cruising.
As for being pleased that Derby got turned over at home, words fail me, what does that make us
we are experiencing ground hog day(do not even ask how long it will last)
At a guess it will be ten matches into next season before this gentleman gets his Quittance. Then there is the off the wall replacement, followed by the usual refusal to go of useless players.
Seven seasons?
When you consider our abysmal record of creating goal scoring opportunities, it really does make Assombalonga’s tally so far this season very impressive.
Talking Point submitted! Stay tuned.
…and just in time to post it up live before I head out. So here is the link to Simon’s Talking Point article entitled ‘Finding a Voice’…
https://diasboro.club/2017/11/29/talking-point-finding-a-voice/