| Barnsley | Middlesbrough | ||
| Fletcher (og) McGeehan |
3′ 9′ |
Braithwaite Assombalonga |
7′ 60′ |
| Possession Shots On target Corners Fouls |
33% 11 3 4 10 |
Possession Shots On target Corners Fouls |
67% 21 6 7 11 |
Bright Barnsley start undermines Boro
This morning’s table raised dimming hopes once again that bruised Boro could haul themselves back into contention as serious promotion contenders following Cardiff’s defeat against Birmingham last night. An away win this afternoon at Barnsley followed up with a home win next Saturday against those same Bluebirds could reduce the gap to the Championships early leaders to just two points. Of course other clubs would be seeing the same opportunity but if ever GM needed a break then this was as good as it would get thus far into the Championship campaign. Barnsley had reasons for optimism with four home wins in the last five against us so the odds were slightly in the Tyke’s favour.
Earlier in the week Heckingbottom had admitted that Barnsley couldn’t compete with Boro’s pulling power and potential with regards to Ashley Fletcher so surely with upwards of 4,500 of Boro’s best cheering them on today this had to be the day when it all clicked. Ashley was given the nod from Monk and was starting, presumably in the hope that he would come back to haunt the Tykes.
A warm breeze courtesy of a distant and by now defunct Atlantic Hurricane uncharacteristically warmed Oakwell. Boro fans reenergised from our Brentford no show were hoping that same warm breeze would be the only source of hot air today after being put in our place midweek regarding tactics and formations. Downing was restored to the starting eleven after being in the stands for that Brentford embarrassment. Most tellingly perhaps was the restoration of the Grant and Clayts duo, presumably intended to add some no nonsense stability in the middle of the park. It appeared that there were consequences after the ineffective display against the Bees with Traore, Johnson and Shotton all missing from the match day squad with Ayala starting in place of Shotton meaning that another successful Boro Championship partnership was restored. Rumour was that Traore had missed the team bus.
Barnsley started sprightly (or Boro started slowly again) with two corners in the opening minutes. From the second corner a ball came into the Boro box and the Tykes went 1-0 up courtesy of a unintentional glancing Fletcher headed own goal. A scoring return for the lad was certainly one of GM’s wishes but not in his own net. That second corner came as a result of Boro not being able to play their way out of defence after the first corner.
Ayala who had conceded that first corner now flicked on a Christie throw in for Braithwaite to hit home to make it 1-1 after seven minutes. Just as Boro apparently settled into their stride Barnsley broke and unbelievable defending in the Boro six yard box saw Boro 2-1 down immediately with Randolph uncharacteristically rooted to the spot for the cross as McGeehan took his opportunity.
This wasn’t as bad as Mogga’s last visit here but Boro looked anything but organised and controlled as they played in what I thought was a 442 despite many of us assuming we would line up 433 with Monk’s initial selection. As it was I think we were actually playing 4321 whilst Barnsley settled into their 4321 shape, seemingly comfortable in their set up. Boro in contrast were a mixture of parts both good and bad. Ayala as we know can be deadly in attacking set pieces and so he was but contrasted by Assombalonga who yet again struggled to control balls and of course putting ourselves into trouble for the first goal by not having an outlet from a corner.
As we applied pressure Barnsley slipped up in defence allowing Fletcher to break who played in Braithwaite who fumbled but the ball went out to Assombalonga whose control was typical and he blasted it well wide of the target. Seconds later Britt hit a 25 yard screamer which deflected out for a corner which Downing then hit to the front post from which Barnsley broke, leaving a melee in the Tykes box involving Assombalonga and Williams. Boro then had another quick corner which was poorly hit, resulting with Barnsley breaking and Boro blocking. We were struggling to break through the Barnsley resistance and it didn’t look like we had the organisation and belief to remedy things.
There was a lot of effort from white shirted Boro but we were looking all over the place with no obvious shape and defensively looking very poorly organised. As the half time whistle loomed that daunting walk to the tunnel which signalled the decline of Mogga was now beckoning for Garry Monk. Grant meanwhile rifled in a last minute effort to try and save Monk’s blushes but like many of our attempts this afternoon not really convincing. The biggest positives in the first half were Grant firing up those around him, Downing supply of balls into the box and Braithwaite looking a class apart.
A mixture of mumbles and groans rather than outright boo’s and to the fans credit “Boro we love you” was the response from the travelling Parmo Army as the players made their way off the pitch at half time. In reality that was more than Garry Monk’s Boro deserved. Despite the two week break this side didn’t look like there was any definitive game plan or even remotely working to anything close to a plan. We had possession and we attacked but we looked very poor at the back again. The once notoriously tight defensive unit is now porous and susceptible and is a growing concern.
The upcoming second half forty five minutes were going to be a major defining point for Garry Monks season. Slip further behind and his credibility will take another major hit, draw and it’s simply not good enough only a win would do. No Substitutions as the sides came back out with GM going same again. The second half started fairly inconspicuously until Fabio gave away another of his trade mark rash free kicks for an unnecessary challenge on Hammill. Fortunately for us the resulting free kick didn’t punish us this time.
For all our possession Barnsley didn’t look too troubled and as sixty minutes ticked over GM needed to think about his options. Cyrus Christie this time gave away a free kick which resulted in Leadbitter clearing it out to Downing who fed the up til now underperforming Assombalonga who slotted the ball home to make it 2-2. Boro suddenly sprung to life and an ensuing hectic period saw a Downing shot get the away fans off their seats and the home fans squirming. Barnsley then broke up the other end and in a spell of pressure Fabio put the ball out for a corner which interestingly saw Downing remonstrating how the Boro defence was organising itself. Boro broke up the other end from the Corner only to see Braithwaite lose the momentum and the optimism fizzled out. This was now end to end stuff and the tempo of the game had suddenly racked up several notches as Barnsley wanted the win but Boro now had their tails up with Downing being influential for Boro.
A brilliant move started from Fabio to Downing then playing it into Assombalonga then back to Fabio but the Brazilian’s effort flashed wide. Immediately afterwards Fabio dropped to the ground much as he had done previously against Brentford. Like then it looked like cramp but it seems to be a recurring theme for him which I suspect is perhaps symptomatic of an underlying problem. A series of defending comedy gold from Barnsley this time nearly let Brathwaite through and then Thiam went up the other end nearly putting us back under the cosh.
George Friend meanwhile had warmed up for the struggling Fabio as the game was opening up and tired mistakes starting to take their toll. Pearson then took out Braithwaite and took a yellow for his troubles which allowed George to enter the fray on the pitch where he started off his Boro career all those years ago.
Friend’s arrival couldn’t have been timelier as he almost immediately cleared a Barnsley attempt as it ricocheted off Randolph’s post. Bamford was readied next to come on as Braithwaite looked to be tiring. Boro pressure was building and we were knocking on Barnsley’s door and Downing was central to everything that Boro were producing with Grant pulling strings behind. Bamford finally came on but bizarrely it was Downing who made way for Bamford. That was a substitution that didn’t make a lot of sense to me at all unless Stewy was carrying some kind of a knock. I’m not sure tactically what advantage GM thought that was going to provide as removing our most progressive creator seemed totally counterproductive.
Barnsley made two subs of their own with Barnes and goal scorer McGeehan going off as Heckingbottom tried to freshen things up for his tiring side. Assombalonga then gave away an unnecessary free kick and if he was in any doubt about its recklessness Grant certainly let it be known what he thought of his challenge. The minutes were now ticking away and Barnsley started to clear balls via route one as Boro tried to snatch the winner. Bamford and Fletcher were trying to work some magic as the fourth official held up the board indicating three minutes of additional time left. As the minutes turned to seconds Barnsley had a final attack that ended with Christie being fouled from which Randolph eagerly got the ball back up field but the move petered out with a series of unimpressive supposed head injuries from Barnsley as the final whistle sounded.
It ended 2-2, Boro’s now traditional poor start plus an inability to clear corners without inviting pressure straight back was to prove our downfall. The latter stages of the second half saw Boro push and probe but the shape and organisation just wasn’t there from the off. It was a game that ultimately disappointed and raised even more questions about GM’s pack shuffling methodology and tactics. One word summed it up for me, unconvincing. There appears to be a lack of belief or understanding amongst the Players. At this stage of the season a draw simply wasn’t good enough and certainly not acceptable for a squad of this calibre so the big question after twelve games is what is going wrong and why?
Monk unlikely to find the Barnsley
chop on Gibson’s menu
Boro are looking to prove their promotion pedigree isn’t of dubious lineage against the Tykes on Saturday in a fixture that most remember as the last straw that dogged one particular previous manager in Tony Mowbray. The former inspirational captain was well and truly in the dog house at the exact same stage of the season after a defeat at Oakwell four years ago to the then bottom club. Whilst Monk may dismiss any attempts to see too many similarities with his team’s trip to Barnsley, he will be aware that after the failure to gain victory in his two previous home games he can ill-afford another disjointed poor display.
To be fair, that defeat in 2013 at game 12 left Mogga’s team 17 points behind top club Burnley and 10 points off a play-off spot in a season where the target was a top-six finish. However, Monk’s team won’t be equally off the pace should they suffer a similar result this weekend – but if they find themselves anything like 3-0 down at half-time in hapless homage to Mogga’s under-performing team then Steve Gibson may find the flashback all too illuminating. Though it was perhaps the Boro supporters reaction at Oakwell that convinced the chairman that Mowbray’s time was up.
| Barnsley | Middlesbrough | ||
| Paul Heckingbottom | Gary Monk | ||
| P10 – W3 – D2 – L5 – F13 – A15 | P11 – W4 – D4 – L3 – F13 – A9 | ||
| Position Points Points per game Projected points |
18th 11 1.1 51 |
Position Points Points per game Projected points |
11th 16 1.45 67 |
| Last 6 Games Millwall (A) QPR (H) Wolves (A) Aston Villa (H) Preston (A) Sunderland (H) |
F-T (H-T) 3:1 (1:1) W 1:1 (1-0) D 1:2 (0:0) L 0:3 (0:2) L 1:1 (1:1) D 3:0 (2:0) W |
Last 6 Games Brentford (H) Norwich (H) Fulham (A) QPR (H) Aston Villa (A) Bolton (A) |
F-T (H-T) 2:2 (0:1) D 0:1 (0:1) L 1:1 (0-0) D 3:2 (1:1) W 0:0 (0:0) D 3:0 (1:0) W |
After losing three of their opening games to some of the early season teams who were quicker out of the blocks (Bristol City, Ipswich, Sheffield Utd), Barnsley gained some respite by thumping Sunderland 3-0 at home before just picking up just a solitary point in another run of tough fixtures against Preston, Villa and Wolves. Their first away victory at Millwall just before the break gave them another much needed three points to move them three clear of the drop zone. The fact that their last five games have yielded just one point less than Boro over the same period is perhaps more of an indication of how Garry Monk’s team have been under-peforming given the disparity in resources. Though it’s always a brave decision to employ a manager with a name like Heckingbottom since if the club ended up in last spot as it would give both sets of supporters carte blanche to chant his name slightly incorrectly.
Barnsley gained promotion to the top-flight for the first time in their history in 1997, which was the year Boro were relegated thanks to our three points deduction. Whilst Boro may have been the team with the Brazilian players in that season it was the supporters of Barnsley who started the chant “it’s like watching Brazil” as their team went up playing entertaining football – apparently some Brazilian fans were tempted to return the accolade by chanting “it’s like watching Barnsley reserves” following their humiliating 7-1 exit at the hands of Germany in the last World Cup. Sadly, the Tykes time with the elite lasted just one season as they finished bottom and were duly relegated as Boro passed them again in the other direction on the way back up to the Premier League.
It’s still early days in Monk’s tenure and perhaps it would be unreasonable to expect the task he was given to have been successfully sorted at this early stage – however, the question mark for the doubters appears to be one of visible progress. With a quarter of the season gone there’s no sense that the Boro manager has yet got to grips with how he can create a balanced team from the resources at his disposal. In fact, it appears the pack of players have been shuffled around too frequently to allow any meaningful partnerships to form and develop. So is it time the players upped their game and lived up to their billing to prevent them being dropped or is the juggler himself in danger of being sacked?
If pre-season favourites Boro continued to slide down the table then it’s possible the writing could soon be on the wall for our promotion aspirations. Even the offer of a stylish ball-point pen that sounds similar to one of Barnsley’s more famous sons, Michael Parkinson, wouldn’t make that message any less palatable for Steve Gibson to read – though given the Boro chairman’s previous on not seeing disastrous outcomes coming, perhaps the former chat-show host will also be claiming that he should have gone to Specsavers should the lack of progress remain unseen.
Hopefully, Garry Monk will have had his mind focused by Boro’s recent abject home display and he will have been working hard in the break to ensure the correct calls are made in the coming weeks. Right now he may be nursing a few wounds to his reputation but there’s nothing like winning games to heal them – so I’m sure most supporters will be hoping the Boro manager is a quick healer and he avoids picking at the scab of unnecessary experimentation. Which brings me almost seemlessly onto the likely advice of another famous son of Barnsley, Arthur Scargill, who would no doubt tell Monk that gaining victory was all about having dependable strikers – though I suspect his preference would be for leaving wounds unhealed as he’d definitely not be in favour of scabs regardless of whether they remained unpicked!
Although Boro have spent big on striking options for this campaign, so far it appears we haven’t seen the goals being banged in for our bucks. There were signs that Martin Braithwaite can be the kind of cool finisher that is needed, especially as Assombalonga has rarely seemed calm or comfortable as Boro’s spearhead. The £15m man has not looked anything particularly special given his top dollar ticket price and seldom gives the appearance of someone likely to change a game – indeed his first touch may often be a barrier to linking up with other forwards. On that basis my preference up front would be to pair Braithwaite and Bamford (who, while we’re on the subject, has also largely remained unpicked) as both have good movement, good feet and a cleverness about their play – Assombalonga is looking more of an instinctive six-yard box finisher who needs service and unless Boro find a way to feed him then he’s not the kind of player who can survive on scraps for too much longer.
Perhaps the biggest issue for Boro is how they provide service for this expensively assembled strike-force. It’s been a long-standing problem that the central midfield functions mainly in a defensive capacity and is less effective at instigating attacking moves. The preference for players in these positions is normally to play short safe passes that essentially slows the ball’s progress up the pitch – most of the forward momentum seems to now rely on laying off the ball to our fast but unpredictable runners who then need to beat several opponents before they can service the strikers. The other option is usually an ambitious long ball that relies on perfect execution to land in the spot that isn’t being covered by opposition defenders. The overall problem is one of static players passing to other static players as they probe for an opening that has long since been shut.
When Garry Monk arrived at the club the blueprint was to change the emphasis from a containment based approach by bringing more dynamic players to the club who were comfortable on the ball and were capable of quickly turning defence into attack. At the moment it seems this transition from a more defensive style of play has yet to find either a system or the right blend of personnel to make it happen. This is where the Boro manager is currently at and he maybe should now know which players are most suited to this aim. We knew it would take time but the club operates in real time and the longer it takes to find solutions the less chance that finding that solution will bear fruit this season.
The time has probably come for Monk to decide on which players will best serve him and if he doesn’t know soon he may not get the chance to eventually find out. He could perhaps seek inspiration on deciding which players to pick by glancing at Barnsley’s club badge and observing their motto ‘Spectemur agendo’. Whilst this may sound like a Harry Potter spell that will allow Boro’s promotion hopes to ghost back on the agenda, it actually means ‘judge us by our actions’ – which in the case of the players it should be extended to ‘and not by our reputations or price-tags’.
So will the Boro players cast a spell over the Tykes and regain their magic touch that has deserted them of late or will Garry Monk be forced to admit that there’s no magic wand as promotion becomes the word that must not be mentioned. As usual give your predictions for score, scorers and team selection – plus will our strikers decide it’s time to return to work?
Our strikers are very like those in the formerly state owned companies.
The latter favour 24 hour strikes which coincide with holiday periods but don’t wish to inconvenience the public.
Ours do so on matchday no doubt returning to net bulging activity at Rockcliffe.
Elsewhere I read Vic’s piece about best value for money team at the Riverside. An obvious omission for me was Robbie Mustoe, I can only assume it was because he joined us in the Ayresome era.
Love it your best yet
OFB
Thanks a lot but a bit over the top for 5 sentances
🙂
Arghhhh, you meant yet another quality article by Werder!
IAN
You’re starting to get on my wave length!
OFB
Great preview Werder.
Are our players on strike?
I don’t think so but watching the last game made me think they might be working to rule.
Hope our players finally form a union and demonstrate that there skills are still in demand.
As for the result….. well I couldn’t picket
Their……. hate making g spelin mistaces
Great piece and a delightful read.
No predictions from me except that I predict that anything less than a thumping bloody big win for Boro will start the week of the long knives and a record 1000 comment blog!!! Lets face it, if we are a top 2 club then this is the test against 18th place dubious performer. On the other hand if we are just play off hopefuls drifting in mid table then an away point would be useful.
You decide and cut your cloth accordingly.
Great read Werder , on another note , just listened to GM s press conference on the MFC website…can hear GM no problem but can some one at the club please provide a microphone to the press as you cant hear the questions they are putting to Monk. In this day and age , not very professional MFC
Assombolongo £15 m
Fletcher £ 6.5 m
Braithwaite £ 9 m
Gestede £ 6 m
Bamford £ 6 m
Touble scoring goals? Seems the issue is elsewhere .
Remember we have a chairman who fired the guy who essentially saved the club ,and Gibson’s backside, by being loyal to the club, Bruce Rioch ,don’t forget if he hadn’t talked players into staying and coaching them, we would have been staring at a team of ragamuffins playing Port Vale.
If we lose on Saturday , don’t be surprised?
Colin Henderson fired Brucie
Wow
The pesants are revolting, they have no bread.
Then let them eat Pontefract cakes.
2-0 to Boro
My prediction :
Barnsley 0 Boro 2
Beat yer MPD
Great article Werdermouth. I should have realised that our strikers are misnamed because Boro’s former nickname was the Scabs.
See Strachan has quit (sacked)
I was at the Leeds game in October 2010.
I think it was his last Boro game.
Sure Ken will confirm.
Is GM to suffer the same fate.
October seems to be the month.
I hope not and that Boro can rally from here.
A great analytical piece Werdermouth which I believe clearly points out the issues needing to be addressed. Let’s hope GM reads your editorials!
Team:
Randolph
Christie, Fry, Gibson & Friend
Clayton & Howson
Fletcher, Braithwaite & Johnson
Assombalonga
Subs: Dimi, Fabio, Leadbitter, Adama, Bamford, Shotton & Baker
Barnsley 0 – 2 Boro (Assombalonga & Fletcher)
I have gone for a win on the basis that the time is nigh, if we don’t start imposing ourselves on the lower table teams then promotion becomes a pipe dream.
Crowd: 15,987
Match stream has been booked for a couple of weeks.
CoB 😎
Thanks KP – but I’d be slightly concerned if Monk was spending his time trawling through football blogs looking for answers 🙂
KP
Shotton on the bench before Ayala?
Ayala has won promotion
No Downing?
Downing has won promotion.
Leadbetter left out of first team.
This leader is proven at champ level and has won promotion.
Just my opinion like
Old Billy
My choices are in part who I would like to see playing and who I believe GM will pick.
I would like to see Friend in the side but believe that Fabio will play.
I also believe that some of the players are starting to be on the fringe of the squad.
I think that Ayala and Downing are now fringe players. Downing has been used by GM in the past but has repeatedly in my view failed to deliver on a consistent basis. Winning promotion should not necessarily guarantee you a start.
I certainly see Ayala as being ahead of Shotton but he was a GM purchase and as such gets the nod as does Howson over Leadbitter. Leadbitter in my view should be in the team as he provides drive and looks to move the ball quickly and as you say is proven at this level.
I would also not be surprised if Baker starts as he again seems to be a GM favourite despite underperforming in my view.
‘When the heads dizzy the body falls over!’
Just sayin like
Another cracking piece Werder you really do spoil us. Loved the bit about Heckinbottam and if Barnsley were at the bottom of the league. Made me laugh out loud and got a shake of the head and a pitying look from Mrs FAA!
I was at Oakwell the day of Moggas last game and to say the atmosphere was toxic would be an understatement. On Moggas walk to the tunnel in the corner at the Boro end at halftime was a scene of vitriol and anger, aimed at one of the clubs modern day heroes. Normally not one backward in coming forward I just stood there unable to see how badly it had gone wrong for him.
Lets hope it turns out to be a happier occasion this time round and Monk can get the team firing and come away with a convincing win and performance. No score prediction from me as I don’t want to put a jinx things.
Another great piece Werder.
Just hope this break has given GM a chance to take stock and decide how he can get the best out of his expensively assembled squad.
We all want him to succeed but a repeat of the pre- break failures will make life very difficult for him.
Fingers crossed for a good result in this “Yorkshire” Derby (just thought I’d stoke up the perennial debate!).
Werder
Mogga was on such a tight financial leash it’s a wonder we weren’t relegated. GM has been given freedom to roam over all the division and more in a buying frenzy. No living off scraps for the latter.
Heckingbutton?
Beware the ides of October as some managers not meeting expectations might fall over.
Like dominoes in a row it’s out the revolving door they go.
There’s no looking back once the boss gives you the sack.
But its never over till it’s over.
Btw. Heysenck 72-NEW Bayern manager Roy H 70+ -Crystal Palace Martin O Nelli 65. Age when I get to retire (no choice) 67. Ooh Jeremy Corbyn 68 and still firing on all cylinders 🙂
Just catching up as I’ve been busy on my endless list of tasks – with an unexpected return to a week of summer weather due to arrive over here tomorrow I’ve been put on gardening duty today – I probably could have done with the help of a semi-professional like Steve Agnew given the mess from recent storms.
Anyway, I suddenly remembered at 9pm yesterday that I’d better start thinking about Barnsley (hopefully Garry Monk had similar thoughts much earlier), so glad to hear that many of you enjoyed the preview article that were interwoven with some of the best Barnsley jokes that a glass of Merlot could script at such short notice. So your comments were greatly appreciated and particular thanks to OFB, Ian, Old Billy, Allan, Braveheart, Ken, KP, FAA, Steely – plus anyone else I’ve missed out.
I’ll try to reply to some of the specific comments later but I’m now back on kitchen duties – I wonder if EU legislation on zero hours contracts covers domestic duties? Still at least the school holidays are nearly over 🙂
Boro have won eight times at Barnsley in the league and in seven of those matches by at least two goals, and usually because our forwards (let’s not say strikers) have at least scored a brace:-
1901/02 7-2 Jack Brearley scored 4
1955/56 4-0 Charlie Wayman scored 3
1956/57 3-1 Brian Clough scored 2
1983/84 2-0
1987/88 3-0 Bernie Slaven scored 2
1993/94 4-1 Alan Moore & John Hendrie scored 2 each
2011/12 3-1 The only win in the last 5 visits, we lost the other 4
I don’t really know what to make of those statistics, but perhaps if Assombalonga scores one he is likely to score another, which might help anyone who likes a flutter. Just saying like.
Great piece Werder.
The team I would like to see is:-
Randolph
Fabio Fry Gibson Friend
Braithwaite Clayton Leadbitter Downing
Assombalonga Bamford
The team I expect to see start is:-
Randolph
Christie Shotton Gibson Fabio
Clayton Howson
Baker Braithwaite Johnson
Assombalonga
Result 1-1 with Gibson the scorer.
Great piece Werder, very enjoyable. Wasn’t Michael Parkinson a ‘celebrity’ Barnsley fan? It’s of no importance just a thought really. He used to write on football for The Sunday Times in the 60’s and early 70’s.
Off to Leigh on Sea in Essex this weekend house-sitting for son and partner along with doing garden, re-felting shed, gardening etc, etc. At least I should be able to follow the match unlike the last week in North Norfolk, house sitting again, where I couldn’t even follow the blog because the signal was so poor.
I’m going Barnsley 2 – ! Boro. I just don’t think we’ve got it yet. Too many thought it would be a stroll because we looked so good on paper. But on grass…
Jeremy Corbyn firing on all cylinders? As my grandad used to say, ‘he’s all wind and p155’. It’s OK gobbing off when you don’t have to put your money where your mouth i, you’re always right..
UTB,
John
Yes Jarsue159 he was and this is what I wrote on my blog on 4th September at 11.50 am :-
“Barnsley 0 Middlesbrough 2 – Now you won’t find this recorded on the football field, but in the TV studio. That was the night when Paul Daniels demoralised the rather supercilious Michael Parkinson twice on the latter’s show by performing two card tricks (which the studio audience and TV viewers were privy to) behind Parky’s back. He then licked his finger and gave out the score as Barnsley 0 Middlesbrough 2 much to Parky’s annoyance.”
Perhaps that might be an omen for Saturday’s match, as I mentioned earlier today that Boro often win by two or more goals at Oakwell. We could do with a bit of Paul’s magic.
Ken,
Never was a truer word spoken.
UTB,
John
Jarsue159 who is re-felting a shed : I know a good place to get felt 😃
Would that be when you have a night on the tiles?
Hopefully Leigh on Sea…
Great work Werder as usual!
I have more reservations now than previously after hearing GM’s comments yesterday about only playing two formations and that fans can’t see or understand. It wasn’t an AK type meltdown outburst, far from it but it does show a worrying disconnect from what many of us have witnessed (or think we have witnessed) so far this Season. I hope he proves the doubters wrong but that comment stands out as a very defiant one and one that may come back to quickly haunt him.
Lets hope we don’t see a confused performance, littered with the same silly mistakes that has marred the season to date. There will be a tremendous away following at Oakwell anticipating a Boro performance that will inspire and provide belief. I’m not comfortable that is what we will actually witness. A tight unconvincing win will keep the knives in the drawer but a poor showing may feed the five thousand giving rise to blunt, earthy Teesside directness, exacerbated by the additional vocal lubrication provided by pre match local hostelries.
This is a huge game for GM and it has to be a convincing and believable showing.
Tykes 0 Big Lads 3
Jarsue159
My wife is from Essex and we used to spend a lot of time in Leigh on sea.
I had my first taste of jellied eels there.
As for Corbyn, Maggie would have had him on toast for breakfast.
God help Britain if he is ever allowed to govern.
There is a saying that is popular here in Oz
“you cant polish a turd”
Old Billy,
The house looks lovely with a sea view too, I’m looking forward to the visit. I read somewhere this week that it is one of the ten best places to live in the UK. I think Corbyn sees himself as a new messiah with those initials.
I’ll report back on Leigh on Sea. Anyway a drive through Norfolk into Suffolk and Essex with lunch and a beer on the way.
UTB,
John
Off to see Gazza tonight with my lad – gentleman’s dinner and all that.
I took my lad to the Chelsea league cup final at Wembley in 98. I am sure that was Gazza’s debut for Boro but not so certain. I think he came on in extra time and first touch of the ball gave it to Chelsea who scored.
Is that how is was or is it my memory playing tricks on me?
Ken – I didn’t know that Middlesbrough were once nicknamed ‘The Scabs’ so I did a quick bit of research to see how they were given such an uncomplimentary moniker.
It was a name that was bestowed upon them by supporters of their rivals Ironopolis after Boro reneged on a merger deal between the two clubs. The planned merger was aimed at gaining membership to the Football League and after Boro pulled out of the deal relations between the two became quite bitter and Middlesbrough FC were subsequently referred to as ‘The Scabs’ by half of the town.
Another interesting snippet that I also read in the same piece, which you may also know, is that Middlesbrough FC was apparently formed at a tripe supper by local cricketers looking for a winter hobby – so that is from where the Gazette podcast gets it’s name no doubt!
Werder
I was aware of the tripe supper origins of Boro.
Redcar Red
It will be interesting to see if what we think of as some confusion in forrmations reflects itself on the pitch. If fans have difficulty in seeing GM’s two formations you can bet your bottom dollar the players will be disorganised.
You could argue it is what did for Mogga in the end, the end of his last full season showed a squad in disarray. Luckily he turned it round in the games played at the start of the next season to be just poor before he was relieved on his duties.
October, As I posted previously 3 out of last four managers left around the third week of the month.
I don’t think it will happen this time but we sure do need to see some evidence of cohesion on the pitch
FAA – I think Mogga’s low standing at that point with supporters was down to the feeling that he’s run out of ideas, which was typified by his ‘It is what it is’ catchphrase in post-match interviews. Boro had become notorious slow starters under Mogga but surely no-one expected to be 3-0 down to the bottom club and patience had all but run out.
Apparently Gibson was preparing to dismiss him earlier after only one win in the first ten games but a 4-1 victory over Yeovil in Game 11 postponed the deed. Mogga would have never quit, though Boro had suffered a long bad run at the turn of the year in the previous season so he’d more or less continued where he’d left off.
Mowbray had managed just three wins in the last 20 games of the previous season with 14 defeats, which had given him a record of just 5 wins from his last 32 games – so it was definitely the final straw for many.
Whilst Spartak makes the valid point about Mogga working on the fraction of the budget of Monk, there was a sense that Boro were sliding towards relegation under his tenure and something needed to be done. He had some good players in the squad with Gibson, Friend, Rhys, Leadbitter, Butterfield, Adomah and Carayol but his striking options were somewhat limited with Emnes, Jutkeiwicz and Kei Kamara in comparison to Monk.
Thus far into the Season I’m not sure that I have seen enough to be comparatively dismissive of Messr’s Emnes, Jutkeiwicz and Kamara. Fletcher, Assombalonga, Gestede haven’t exactly set the heather alight, there are mitigating circumstances for Bamford and Braithwaite.
Fair point! Spectemur agendo as they say in Barnsley…
Hopefully tomorrow they start to prove me wrong and make me eat my words!
My grandfather used to refer to Boro as the scabs and Ironopolis as the washers. I seem to recall Anthony Vickers once writing an article about the two clubs, and that if he had been alive at the time he wouldn’t have supported the scabs. That article might have appeared in the club programme “Boro Red” as I seem to recall it used to do a weekly feature of Ironopolis’s one and only season in the league. I seem to recall that the two clubs also competed against each other in the Northern League. I’ll see if I can find out more about the two clubs in that League.
Poor Mogga,
i would have loved to see it all work out. His record at WBA and Hibs was very good and I do believe he could have had success if he was employed instead of Strachan rather than after him.
He was shrewd in the transfer market and some of his bargain bin signings were good.
Unfortunately he arrived at “belt tightening” time and he inherited some of the players he jettisoned at Celtic (toxic dressing room anyone!).
The timing of his appointment could not have been worse and I always thought it was a mistake by the chairman to put him in that position.
My thoughts back then were “Right man at the wrong time”
And now we will never know.
He’s still a legend in my eyes, one of our own from the class of 86.
Jarsue159
If you like shell fish, drop yer bags when you get there and head down to the front, you will find all the cockle sheds and a great selection of the freshest shell fish. Straight out of the nets. You must try the jellied eels.
Wash it all down with a beer
Old Billy,
It will happen!
UTB,
John
New thought/suggestion-given there are some ageist posters here (regardless of political affiliations), may I suggest one of our own in the event of a managerial vacancy occuring.
Step forward Stewart Downing!
Just suggesting like 🙂
You know how to wind people up don’t you ?
Love it !
OFB
What?????
🙂
OFB,
Spartak obviously knows I’ve had a new spring fitted!
UTB,
John
My spring is very weak these days it tends to make things drop a bit !
Old Billy
I was not in favour of Mogga coming back, at the time we had a Celtic fan in the office as well as my Rams colleague who supports Rangers as his second team.
The latter thought Mogga had done a great job at Celtic!
In his first season, he not only inherited the mess created by Gate and the others in the Unholy Trinity he also had the squad brought in by Strachan. Before bile spews out just remember it was Gate and co who sold off the family jewels, squandered millions on misfits and got us relegated.
Half the squad were in the treatment room before Xmas – we actually had a full team and sub in there and you could play them in accustomed positions with just a tad of round pegging.
As the squad got fitter we went on a good run, the highlight was the 3-0 win at Cardiff. Barry Robson was asked what he put it down to and he said having players fit.
That got me thinking so I had a look at appearance stats. Even before seasons end the top six had half a dozen players with over 40 league appearances with several in the mid to upper 30’s. We had three players with over 30 appearances at that point. This is from memory but the numbers are about right.
In the good run we had a lot of players available week in week out playing in a relatively settled team. I posted this on the blog only for Vic to be the open minded person he is and shout it down because I was having a go at Crockcliffe. He wouldn’t accept the link with having your best players fit and on the pitch in a regular line up would lead to better results.
The next couple of seasons saw us challenging but fade away culminating in the dreadful half season Werder highlighted.
Oddly enough it coincided with Mogga completing the de Jockification of the squad, just like at Celtic.
Ian
Gate sold the expensive set of jewels.
Strachen was aloud to splurge on slightly cheaper jewels with Scottish accents, but jewels nonetheless.
They were fools gold.
Mogga came in and had to balance the books by selling the second set of jewels and looking for loan players that were more akin to Ratners
PS
Missed a bit at the start, I wasn’t in favour of Mogga coming back but he would be given more time and patience than others.
I was also against Mogga coming back and said at the time it could all end in tears. Not that I did not rate him as a Manager, just that there is no going back. It rarely works. Stewy Downing is another one.
It would be interesting to see the stats on player starts to date this season in the Boro team, including subs, against the top six or seven teams player usage. Never mind formations.
One for Ken when he is bored!!!
I think Gate gets unfairly blamed for selling off the family jewels (albeit not exactly untarnished most of them). The Club had a knee jerk fire sale to address the fact it had been operating outside of its financial capabilities (or on the edge at least) under Schteeve.
Gareth was a Player one minute then thrown in at the deep end the next with no flotation aid with no succession planning or development in place. Trying to learn to be a Manager at the highest level in world football isn’t an ideal training scheme in any walk of life. Trying to then do it on a shoestring budget whilst loosing your best equipment and machinery in the process and suddenly be expected to have had years of bargain basement scouting dossiers conveniently in the boot of your car or stuffed down the back of your settee was ridiculous.
There is blame without doubt but if a serious piece of plant or equipment fails then its very rare that the apprentice gets the blame. Worse still its unbelievable to think that any sensible employer would operate said plant and machinery without a senior engineer, then again that also saved money, or at least it did in the short term. Its almost as ridiculous as trying to operate an airline without Pilots or the NHS without Doctors and Nurses, naive stupidity in the world of business is frustratingly common but its usually in the Board room not the shop floor or the retail counter.
Redcar Red
It is why I called it the Unholy Trinity, Lamb and Gibbo told us they would nurture Gate but left him holding the ball when the August window broke.
Yes the club were trying to redress the financial situation under Schteve but I will leave you to square that circle with the purchases of the likes of Alves, Mido, Digard etc. A lot of money went down the pan, we followed soon after.
That isnt all Southgates fault, he was given an impossible job without the tools to do it.
Elsewhere a good article about Pools
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/day-shadowing-three-ex-middlesbrough-13755579
Nothing is left to chance with the appliance of science even in non league football.
RR
You a big fat ‘agree’ of the year for your concise appraisal of the Gate seasons. May I add that the financial disposition took precedence over footballing imperatives. Ultimately the balance was all wrong, which included those who had no footballing acumen becoming responsible for footballing decisions.
Yet still, we have people who are sooo adamant and vocally so that SG, Bausor and Lamb before him are akin to football saints and refuse to accept that THEY are the ones where the buck stops. The Gazette team of footballing journos have been complicit at times (more than I care to remember) of keeping the myth of infallibilty alive.
Total frustrating and complete nonsense, of course.
One would hope that people had better judgement. Then again, it simply reminds me of Smeagol when he says ‘Not listening! Not listening!’ Because they’d rather live in a fantasy than face the fact that Boro have been run poorly for decades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB2CNr692RE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Just to be fair to Mogga, he did achieve 85 points over 46 games one year during his time managing Boro – unfortunately it was over a calendar year in 2012 from January to December. Though it proved he was probably capable of gaining promotion but in the end it was all about timing and luck with injuries. It was quite some feat given he did it on next to no budget.
HELP……having trouble signing into the Barnsley web site to subscribe for the BORO match only. I have previously signed up with IFollow and have also tried to register into the Barnsley site. However I appear to be only offered the YEAR PASS.
Any help KP, Werder and others.
On this link there are two options – match pass and season pass – try that
https://www.barnsleyfc.co.uk/matches/fixtures/first-team/201718/october/barnsley-vs-middlesbrough-on-14-oct-17/
BTW I just used it 5 mins ago and it worked
Old Billy
Ref. Your character judgement of Corbyn. I hope nobody judges you on the same basis and comes to the same crude conclusion.
Do you know the man? Have you ever met him? Have you spent any time researching his judgements and why he may have come to the conclusions he did? Or perhaps you judged him against his media presented persona?
How would you consider someone who used the language that you use to describe someone who they had never met nor knew but only relied on what others say was true?
Sometimes I despair of humanity to know that which is a fair and appropriate way to conduct itself.
Amazing,
You could have been describing the reaction to Donald Trump from the left leaning luvvies.
Let’s get back to football.
Spartak,
I appologise if I have caused offence by my comment that was aimed at JC’ s politics rather than the person himself.
One man’s crude is another man’s humour.
Whatever our political views are ( and I am sure you have guessed mine) we must be able to debate.
This blog is all about opinions and we all express our views on individuals, sometimes in a derogatory way.
Your suggestion of Downing as next Boro manager is an example of having a go at someone you don’t really know. ( unless I misunderstood and you were serious).
Once again, I am sorry for offending you.
Please let’s not stifle debate and opinion as it is the basis of our fantastic diasboro.
Is there room on that naughty step mister Parker!
Old Billy : Go find your own naughty step, mine’s invitation only 😃🐕
Old Billy
One man’s freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.
That’s too cryptic for me Ian.
Werdermouth is guite correct about the altercation between Middlesbrough FC and Ironopilis and I will throw more light on that and the “tripe supper” rumour after giving a brief history of Middlesbrough FC.
Cricket had been the dominant sport in England with the first inter-county matches recorded as early as 1709 although the first official County Championship wasn’t established until 180 years later in 1889. By that time football had become more popular and the Football League was formed the year before the County Cricket Championship. Up until that time clubs had mainly played friendly matches, although the FA Cup had provided clubs with some competition since 1871/72.
Middlesbrough Cricket Club had been in existence since the 1850s and some of their players looking for ways to keep fit during the winter months decided to play football. Eventually it was the leading members of the Cricket Club that decided to form Middlesbrough Association on 20th October 1876 in the gymnasium behind the Albert Park Hotel in the southern part of Linthorpe Road. I’m afraid the story that the Club was formed at a tripe supper in the Talbot Hotel in February of that year is pure fiction.
I have no records of the friendly matches that Middlesbrough played after its formation, but apart from the FA Cup, the Cleveland Cup seemed to be the main form of competition. In fact Middlesbrough won it five successive seasons from 1882 to 1886 beating Redcar each time, twice after replays. In fact they declined to play it in 1887 to give other teams the opportunity to win it, which Stockton did. In conjunction with this Cup Middlesbrough also entered the FA Cup as an amateur team, failing to reach the quarterfinals by losing to Redcar 1-2 in January 1986, but extracting revenge in April by defeating them 8-1 after a replay in the Cleveland Cup. However Middlesbrough did reach the quarterfinals in 1988 but lost at home 0-2 to Crewe Alexandra.
However, some of the players broke away to form the Ironopolis Club the following year. Ironopolis (nicknamed the “Nobs” or the “Washers”) quickly became more successful than the Middlesbrough winning the Northern League title in their first three seasons, whilst Middlesbrough finished 2nd, 2nd and 4th. After drawing the first local derby with Middlesbrough 2-2 in 1890, Ironopolis won the next five encounters over those three seasons. The Northern League comprised of 9 or 10 teams in those days, but did include Newcastle East End and Newcastle West End (who merged in1892 to form Newcastle United) and Sheffield United as well as Middlesbrough, so Ironopolis were the leading amateur team in the north.
By now the Football League had been formed to include professional teams from Lancashire and the Midlands, and probably because of the success of Sunderland in winning the League three times in four seasons, Ironopolis were keen not to be left behind and were keen that the town of Middlesbrough should have a club that might challenge the Wearsiders. By then a Second Division of the Football League had been formed, and the two Newcastle clubs had amalgamated (presumably because it was thought that the city wouldn’t be able to sustain two clubs), so Middlesbrough and Ironopolis formed the opinion that a town the size of Middlesbrough wouldn’t to be able to sustain two clubs either, so a meeting was arranged between the two clubs and it appeared that an agreement had been made to merge and apply for enlistment into the Second Division.
For some reason Boro reneged on this agreement deciding they would prefer to remain an amateur club, so Ironopolis applied alone to join the Second Division in 1889 and although they finished a creditable 11th out of 15, financially the season was a disaster and the club folded never to be seen again. For that reason Boro became known as the “Scabs”, remained an amateur team for the time being, and continued participating in the Northern League which they won three times in 1893/94,1894/95 and 1896/97 but more importantly they won the FA Amateur Cup twice in 1895 (2-1 against Old Carthusians) and 1898 (2-1 against Uxbridge) before being successfully appointed into the Second Division as a professional club in 1899 finishing 14th, 6th and then 2nd with promotion to the First Division in 1901/02 where they remained until the end of the 1924/25 season.
However the stigma of being known as the “Scabs” would haunt them for several years after.
Ken
Your are the encyclopedia Borotannica
Very fascinating read Ken, though disappointed the tripe supper story was just an urban myth – who’s going to break the news to the Gazette boys! I can’t say I would have been comfortable with either of the nicknames – The choice of either being a Nob or a Scab would be a tricky one.
It seems hard to imagine now that our main rivals were the likes of Redcar and Stockton back in those amateur days and I also loved the name Old Carthusians – I’ve just googled them to discover they are comprised of former pupils of Charterhouse School in Surrey – which is not representative of the idea it was mainly a working class game in those days.
I’m also just making the connection that any team called united must have been a merger between rival clubs – I’m not sure how that felt for fans in those days but the idea today would probably be met with huge resistance.
Anyway, thanks for that historical post Ken, all very interesting!
I suppose that the link to Charterhouse school for Boro was a Genesis in the making
I would be surprised if AV wasn’t aware that the “tripe supper” was a myth because I believe that the Boro’s historian (that might have been Harry Glasper) stated some twenty years ago that the story was never corroborated. It is possible that there may have been a tripe supper at the Talbot Hotel, but it might just have been an informal meeting to discuss whether application to join the Second Division of the Football League was feasible. We shall never know, but there does appear to be evidence that the actual formation of the Club was later in the year and certainly not at the tripe supper.
I guess that the Gazette’s Tripe Supper podcast sounds more interesting and less confusing than calling it after a cricket team. It is also a fact that many football clubs were formed from their town’s cricket teams as cricket in those days was England’s national sport and sportsmen were at a loss as to how they could remain active in the winter months.
You’re quite right. It certainly was NOT just the working man’s game. For example Oxford University played in four FA Cup Finals winning it once, and Old Etonions played in six, winning it twice. Incidentally the Glasgow club of Queen’s Park who still play at Hampden Park were invited to play Blackburn Rovers in the FA Cup Final at Kennington Oval in 1884 and 1885, but were beaten both times. The Cup in those days was actually called the FA Challenge Cup because the winners I’m led to believe received a bye into the following year’s final and were challenged by the club which had won the knockout process, although Queen’s Park having been invited twice to participate in the Final, were asked to join the knockout process the following year, but declined because of the traveling costs.
As Jimmy Greaves used to say “It’s a funny old game!”.
I appears the modern game is returning to its elitist roots then…
On further investigation I have ascertained that the reason for the fall out between Middlesbrough and Ironopolis was over the name for the new club. Apparently Middlesbrough wanted the new club should be called Middlesbrough & Ironopolis United Football & Athletic Co. Ltd. Ironopolis insisted that the new club should be called Middlesbrough Ironopolis Football Co. Ltd. At first it does seem to be a small difference in naming the club, but I suppose by omitting the ampersand, it does give the impression that Middlesbrough Ironopolis wanted to hold the high ground having lorded over Middlesbrough result wise in the Northern League for three seasons. That was the reason why the latter pulled out of the merger, and perhaps it was unfair to label them as The Scabs.
What happened of course was that Ironopolis joined the Second Division as MIDDLESBROUGH IRONOPOLIS instead of plain IRONOPOLIS and spectator support was pretty even between the two clubs resulting in the folding of the Ironopolis club, whilst Middlesbrough weren’t hit as badly as it remained an amateur club. Politics?
It all sounds a bit similar to the scene in Life of Brian with ‘The Judean People’s Front’ and ‘The People’s Front of Judea’ being mistaken for one another. Though ‘Middlesbrough & Ironopolis United Football & Athletic Co. Ltd’ probably couldn’t have been much longer – we probably would have no doubt ended up as Middlesbrough United after a while.
Pedro my fellow ex-pat
I too have struggled when trying for a match pass with various clubs.
I retry a few hours before kick off and the option suddenly appears.
I will keep my powder dry until about two hours before the off.
Good luck my friend
As everyone must now be aware the rules of the game are play the ball not the man and that’s how discussion is kept from people feeling personally attacked for expressing a view.
Though in the end this is primarily a football blog and straying into politics is not something universally approved of by other contributors. Although I have myself occasionally strayed into the subject, I’m trying to avoid so now as I’ve also found myself in the position of also being the arbiter.
Whilst people are generally free to express a wide range of opinions and comment on events outside football, it’s probably not appropriate to get involved in a full-on political debate with other posters – partly because it’s always going to end up with agreeing to differ on long strongly held political preferences.
I’m not expecting Spartak to move to the right or Old billy to the left following a lengthy exchange between them – but there’s always a risk that such a discussion would suck in other posters and it would all spill over into political camps – which is something probably best avoided.
Though I’m relaxed with the odd political comment here and there as long as it’s either reasonably good humoured or just a general observation and is not aimed at any particular poster.
Politics is part of everyday life but there is a subtle difference between comment and imposing your own views – so as the moderator I’d say everything in moderation please!
Timely intervention Werder.
Deep politics is for another forum.
Let all concentrate on the game tomorrow and pray that GM picks the best team.
Still not sure who he will play on the right or the left.
I try to be quite Conservative when it comes to making my match predictions. Sometimes I do get carried a away a bit, predicting Liberal quantities of goals. All the same, I never set out to Labour a point, which is after all better than no points. Still, when it’s late in the evening I sometimes struggle to be coherent having adopted the Scottish National inclination to Party with conviction, often leaving me feeling a little Green around the gills on a Sunday morning. I would be mortally offended if anyone accused me of DUPlicating my posts, all of which are delivered with an Independent mind and hopefully nobody thinks that I’ve just Plaid with words, which in all honesty seem SinnFeintile to me.
2-1 to the Scabs after a going an early goal down…..
Nice to see a communistic approach very democratic
Very good Powmill! though I hope you’re not a floating supporter? Anyway, I’m looking at a deal for supply and confidence when it comes to our strikers…
Hammond back tracked on calling EU the enemy.
See were are up to speed in Oz.
Barnsley the only enemy this week
Old Billy
Your apology is accepted. And you are quite correct that I am a card carrying Labour Party Socialist and yes I would nationalise the trains and energy firms in the blink of an eye. Believe it or not but the Armed Services, of which I was a member, are state run and I believe many 100 000’s+ members have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and people without so much as a hint of a profit.
I also know that a system is only as good as the people who run it and therefore whether it be Capitalism or Socialism or a football club sooner or later it’s going to fail because of greed, corruption or just downright incompetence due to scum and sychophants rising to the top.
Would I then, knowing what you know now, be called a Socialistic Realist? I wouldn’t mind capitalism if it was in the interests of the many instead of the few. I suppose what annoys me most is seeing veterens homeless and disabled people attacked on the streets.
Finally, I would have Downing as player manager with an experienced head like O Nelli as DoS. And I’d insist that there were 2 Boro supporters on the board at the Boro. Wonder what odds I’d get for my daft quid for those two?
Finally, finally cant give a prediction as I dont know what team GM is going to field? If the confidence in his management is gone then it wont make much difference. If Leadbelter plays then they have a better chance of the win. However, I doubt Bamford will get a start.
UTB
Spartak, maybe we should call ourselves Democrats. Just saying like.
OFB at 7:24.
Well, that’s a Revelation. Hope you don’t mind me Trespassing on your musical inferences. I learned in the Nursery, Cryme doesn’t pay and no matter how much I enjoyed dancing the Foxtrot, it wasn’t nearly as enjoyable as seeing Genesis Live. Now, having moved north to Scotland there are some that think I have just been Selling England by the Pound and that I never did see Keith Lamb Lying down at the Broadway.
Now, that was a great band.
Werder
The blog has improved without the tub thumping interventions by certain Twitter feeds. Theresa May with red eyes is poor journalism in a sports forum.
The idea that people are evil doesn’t sit well with me, very few people are evil, certainly not in British Politics. Personally, as much as possible I keep out of it but I will stick my oar in if someone else does.
Best sticking to sport or Yorkshire or the EU – the latter is an open goal and doesn’t need politics.
Of course it is gratifying to many of us I’m sure, that the origins of our team go back to cricket, which clearly is now a legitimate subject for discussion in here 😙
Powmill
It always was along with discussions of Yorkshire and Teesside. Previous blogmeisters have a very narrow view of life.
Werder thank you for the link AND the great article. Good as ever.
Logged ready for tomorrow…..hope I get my six euros worth. Hope Mr Monk knows his best team and formation. Anything other than a good result……And maybe bingo??
What ?
You play bingo online whilst watching the Boro ?
Hopefully we’ll about house tomorrow with two little ducks after a blind 90 minutes
Our legs eleven. Should be good enough and our Brighton Line might score some goals .
Hope the two fat ladies are singing after the game !
OFB
Glad you’re ready for the game – are you expecting a full house?
Yes, anything else and I may just be calling for something else.
Just keep those balls rolling out the numbers
Two all tomorrow. And I suspect that’s the best case scenario.
RE the press conference, and discussion of formations.
I’m concerned GM came close to dismissing the ability of Boro fans to recognise a shambles when presented with one.
It’s not as if we’ve never been presented the opportunity.
Spartak,
Your devotion to the socialist cause is admirable.
I am sure we can now look forward to what we both agree on.
An improvement today from GM and his team
Skybet have us at 10/11 to win, Barnsley 29/10. What can go wrong?
You feel this is a defining moment, lets hope the team take a grip.
99? Surely not!
Massive pressure game today,one win in our last 5 games, 6 points from a possible 15, a bit stark when looked at over that period, anything but a convincing win today and it’s not just a blip.
Old Billy
Many thanks for the sentiment ref Socialism. Of course any ‘ism’ can turn one into a fanatic the more emotional currency you invest in it. It can come to determine an intrinsic non-negotiable part of a person’s core identity and if threatened or insulted result in gross acts of actual violence at the extreme end of the spectrum.
I was fortunate not so long ago to live amongst the ordinary people and work with them in Libya for two years, whilst it was still under the despotic duress of Col Gaddaffi (other forms of spelling are available). On entering the country at the airport in Tripoli we were greeting by a very large poster featuring a ‘heroic’ portrait of the leader with a slogan saying welcome to the Jamahiriya of the Great Socialist Arab Peoples, or some such. Now I’ve read my Orwell’s Animal Farm and my immediate reaction was to invert the messages meaning and deduce the real meaning, which I took to mean that it was primarily Gaddaffi’s Libya and not the people’s.
I learnt a lot during my stay. Essential amongst the things I learnt was that any system under a despot is by it’s nature a repressive regime which stifles the hopes, dreams and life chances of the many for the gross benefit of the few-it is this that I find unacceptable. Unfortunately, democracy is no guarantee of group or individual freedoms as the ordinary citizen is susceptable to being manipulated either through the use of fear, coercion or calls to a primitive nationalism.
Is there any solution? Yes, I believe so but it requires the acceptance on a national level of clearly agreed moral forms of behaviour towards and for the benefit of ones own society, backed up by laws that will ensure adherence. Ultimately though, it’s down to a common sense of mutual identity with your country, it’s people and how together each are given the opportunity to realise their best potential.
Now, if that’s too difficult, then you could just say sod it I’ll look after me and my mates. Which of course IS understandable – lol
🙂
Spartak waits in anticipation for the team sheet to be posted.
And Spartak would not be alone in his anticipation…….
So our leader is already playing hard to get.
Not a good sign in my opinion.
So we bought a complete rebuild in the transfer window did we?
All we needed was a solution to the goal scoring problem.
The dismantling of the gold planted defence is ominous.
The forecast on this blog of the reinstatement of our great defence would be a complete admission that he has blundered in a major way.
Do not think that will happen.
Love the public attack on Traore.
Just showing that he knows nothing about tactics.
Now we know why traore is in our six yard box at corners.
0-2 today, sorry.
Traore should be left on the half-way line at defensive corners. It means that the other team would have to put at least 2 defenders there or on the “other side” of the half way line unless they REALLY fancy their chances in a race for the ball if it is cleared upfield by our defence. We would have an outlet.
Spartak
I “liked” your latest comment as it was rather thought provoking.
Interestingly we are going through a vote here in Oz for same sex marriage. The government were afraid that the gay community would be abused and bullied. The opposite has been the reality and the gay community has effectively shut down the debate through various means of intimidation so much so that the ” no camp’s” slogan is “its Ok to say no”
The first paragraph of your comment fits the yes campaign to a tee.
It’s interesting that people’s actions do not always reflect their “ism”
Anyway, my teessidism is kicking in, my $9 is paid to Barnsley. 0-2
COB
Old Billy
You should try engaging with the extreme feminist variety – one wanted to put my acorns on the table and literally smash them with a hammer.
She was such a nice woman otherwise, really!
lol 🙂
OFB
Enjoyed your bingo link
A strange game base on 90 numbers , same as football minutes.
I am sure Randolf will be 86 between the sticks
Boro better 29 rise and shine, or GM may get a 24 knock on the door!
Let’s hope our Kelly’s eye keeps a clean sheet
Dimi is still actually Kelly’s eye – Randolph is rather appropriately ‘duck and dive’ number 25. In front I’d expect Ben Gibson is ‘in the mix’ with number 6 alongside don’t let ‘one score’ Dael Fry at number 20 – hopefully we can avoid quacks appearing in the defence with ‘one little duck’ Fabio on the left wearing number 2 and ‘two little ducks’ Cyrus Christie at right-back with shirt number 22.
One little duck will be just fine.
I hope we are not unlucky for some and we finally clickerty click.
Never having played Bingo I’m wondering if all these numbers are Cockney slang?
Ayala, Leadbitter and Downing start. Perhaps GM is reading Werdermouth’s editorial after all.
CoB 😎👍🏻
K P
GM comments in a article in the N Echo that he doesn’t know his best team & further there isn’t, in his opinion, such an entity. Therefore, maybe this is Werder’s team and GM has been scrapping around looking for ideas. A positive spin would be he’s open to suggestions. A negative spin being he doesn’t know what he’s doing. The last 5 games would suggest the latter. Let’s hope he now does coz if God forbid it’s a shambles and we lose, then we’ve bagged 6 points in the last 6 games (am I wrong?).
Further, Traore is not even on the bench but SD gets in from the off. Bamford who a couple of seasons ago would have eaten the Barnsley defence for breakfast is benched and Braithwaite gets a start having only played one game all season and then not a full one.
Does GM know what he’s doing? I’ll leave that upto you all to decide.
For me it has to be Bamford ahead of Fletcher (and maybe ahead of Assombalonga too) every time and it is mystifying to me why Monk thinks otherwise
However, at least Monk seems to have recognised that maybe the ‘old guard’ might have something to offer. Let’s hope they show Monk today what he has been missing.
Spartakboro
I will be happy to answer that after I see what unfolds very shortly! The nerves are beginning to kick in! 😎
The power of the dias is formidable and reaches far and wide
Dodgy selection for me.
Fletcher has been the most disappointing of all of our recent signings, and whatever problems have been diagnosed it’s unlikely that Downing will be the answer to them.
Anyone who was at Bolton for our last away win will be astonished that Traore hasn’t even made the bench, whilst Bamford’s exclusion continues to be this season’s greatest mystery.
Let’s hope Leads- one selection I really do appreciate- can bully the lads into fighting for every ball, and that even this team can pull off a win.
But I’m less confident than I should be. Hoping for a 1-0 win.
Sorry Old Billy but I unapproved your last post as it was a long political rant on alleged incidents that have occurred during the Australian referendum on same-sex marriage. I’ve no way of being able to verify those incidents without undertaking some serious research and you’ve already made some previous posts on the matter to make your view so I’d prefer it if you moved on from the subject.
We are less than half-an-hour away from a Boro game and this is the pre-match blog which I hope people will use to give their views on team and club issues and not head into issues that the vast majority of readers will not be visiting the site for.
Like I said earlier, this is primarily a football blog and I’m quite relaxed about straying into occasional political comment as long as it’s reasonably good humoured and inoffensive – I think you probably crossed that line.
I should add that I’m aware of a number of former posters who now visit the site less frequently due to the subject of football sometimes getting put to one side whilst some posters indulge themselves on other subjects. I would therefore prefer the blog to try and stay focused loosely around the subject of football, especially around matches – which is why we write pre-match and match reports to facilitate such discussions.
Diasboro should not be regarded as the platform of choice to air political views – it’s quite easy to start a blog if you want to air your views and then invite readers to visit if they’re interested.
Thanks
Respect your decision Werder.
Let move on to the important event of the day.
It does look like a ‘safe’ selection from Garry Monk with a return to the tried and tested -the return of Ayala seems out of the blue, though I’m still wondering what Bamford has done to be overlooked. Looks like 4-2-3-1 so width will be coming from the full-backs and I’d expect Downing will drop deep to act as a playmaker.
We need an early goal and if we get it then it should be comfortable – if not, then we may be in for a long afternoon.
OK, time to fire up iFollow – I’ll probably drop in at HT
Why is a cuddly toy absailing from the stadium roof????
Let’s hope Grant can fire them up because it’s a strange line up to say the least.
Seems like we all have the same views on it.
you could not make it up boro 1 nil down !!
Wow,
Think I will just go to bed.
Maybe not, game on
get out of bed …1-1 lol
I did say we needed an early goal – nice strike from Braithwaite btw – though I’d have preferred it if they hadn’t also scored a very early goal…
stay in bed 2-1
Damn, we need another early goal – that Ayala Gibson partnership looks back to its best…
Daft quid Boro to win 4-2 ?
GM’s game plan gone for a burton.
Thanks Werder for your wise words.
This game might end up 5-6.
Boro fans showed their traditional Barnsley half-time appreciation as the players went off… yes boos again!
The ghost of Mogga maybe
AV said clunky, I think they are sloppy, all over the park.
Did we really pay 6.5M for Fletcher?
This Barnsley team are very limited but we have not yet imposed ourselves on them.
If we wake up second half we could still win this
Werder
Gazette’s take is chanting+ ‘Oh, Boro we love you!’ to drown out discontent.
Changes speculation – Bamford on Fletcher off after 15 mins of 2nd half.
Sometimes predicting the score can be v challenging lol
🙂
Braithwaite looks the only one who could rescue this
If we cannot beat a team as poor as Barnsley and they are poor (what does that make us as this time) then something really big needs to happen. No excuses acceptable now.
I think Randolf should have done better for the second goal, missed the first as I logged on a little late. But the defence continues to look suspect.
Got to agree with Len and Werder on the Bamford issue. To think we paid 7mil for Fletcher. He looks lost, but Britt’s not looking much better. I expect Bamford to be on for the start of the second half. They are poor and there for the taking.
If we lose this one, heads have to roll.
Pedro
Couldn’t agree more on your assessment of Barnsley. We have made every team we have played look better than they are!
At the moment we are performing as a mid to lower league side. If performances do not improve then I agree heads must roll.
I would suggest that if we fail to beat Barnsley and lose to Cardiff then GM should go but I suspect he will not as SG will stick with him.
You have to question what exactly have they been working on during the break!
I’d take Assombalonga off as he offers nothing outside of thr six-yard box and Barnsley will be in defensive mode unless Boro score another two.
And then Britt scored!!!
lol
EIO, EIO!
🙂
Do any of our players practice shooting?
Only in the foot…
Take him off! Ok give him another ten minutes to score his second…
Britt needed that!
I fancy a pukka pie me like
Bamford on too late?
Serious error of judgement or just in time?
The former me thinks!
East Fife 5 Albion Rovers 4—– wrong opponents, should have been Forfar.
Another frustrating display and another fightback to come back twice from behind to just claim a point against another team unlikely to finish in the top half – work in progress? or work in stagnation? still no visible sign of improvement.
Could have been worse and they hit the post – Ayala looked extremely rusty and Shotton last time out fared no better – can’t see why Fry shouldn’t walk back into central defence for the next game.
Yet again more questions than answers!
Very disappointing display. What has Monk done the last 2 weeks , have a holiday. Hope I am totally wrong but at the moment we are beginning to look like a mid table team.
O dear me, i had hoped that we would havr come back after the break all fired up to smash the league!
Just remind me how much GM has spent? Not really paying dividends?
Still whilst we are 11th only 3 points of play off place and 7 from top in the crazy league. However being a typical Boro supporter, only 7 off relegstion!
At least we didnt lose!
Make hay-ste.
This dog-tired #Boro are nothing to crow over. They lack beef.
They were cow-ed by Barn-sley’s spring chickens and their horse-play.
They really get my goat.
Traore – Straw Dogs?
Tenuous?
Preferred viewing tonight.
It pains me to say it but our displays are becoming “typical boro” far too frequently.
Why does GM continue to play players. out of their natural position. SD has reputedly one of the best left foots in the EFL and yet was continually crossing with his right and failing to find his man why o why?
Fabio is right footed and yet is keeping a natural left footer who is stronger, taller and quicker out of the side – well at least until late in the second half and when GF came on provided us with better balance/impetus.
I am of course only a supporter and do not understand these and other issues associated with teams and systems!
I suppose a typical Boro performance of old would see us beat Cardiff on Tuesday but I am not putting my house on it.
Frustrated in Spain!
You should try supportin Sunderland.
Low blow alert!!!!
😉
Put the tin hats on, and get ready for incoming bullets after that result at Barnsley.
‘The Chairman is not for changing’!
Whilst the manager changes the team time after time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdQY7BusJNU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Tis what it tis!
I’ve just posted up Redcar Red’s match report on today’s events at Oakwell…
https://diasboro.club/2017/10/12/championship-barnsley-vs-boro/#matchreport
Note: Haven’t updated the score on the header graphic yet as I’m not on my usual laptop as an earlier installation of an update has screwed it up and I’m currently running a system restore 🙁
Thanks RR for another great report. One word stands out ‘ unconvincing ‘
As always RR an excellent summary of another underwhelming performance which leaves more questions than answers.
One of many should be what have they all been doing during the international break!
The iFOLLOW stream was again bearable but with numerous bouts of freezing.
IT only froze once for us midway through first half. – I think the freezing is local. We also listen to the radio commentary and for once is was almost in sync.
Thats all that was good about the match yesterday. Half measures and only half the result.
RR, excellent summary of the game. I agree 100% with your conclusion that it just wasn’t good enough and no positive spin that Monk might try to put on it can change that reality.
A few questions for Monk:-
– what has he been doing with the team for the last two weeks?
– what is he doing to stop the continual slow starts? Giving away two goals to Barnsley in the first ten minutes is criminal.
– why does he think Fletcher is worth his place?
– why does he persist with Fabio at left back when he has a natural left footer in Friend who made a difference when he came on?
– why has he mainly ignored Downing and Leadbitter when they (with Braithwaite) were the stand out players today? Surely they must start in league games.
– if he is clear about the formation he wants to play why does it appear that he doesn’t share this with the players because they always seem to be all over the place?
– is he gong to persist with Assombalonga when Bamford would be a much better option for holding the ball up and scoring goals?
– why does he insist on leaving no players as an outlet upfield for corners when the result is that the ball comes straight back and maintains the pressure on the defence?
Despite the time he has had with the team there is little improvement and still an awful lot to sort out and I don’t think he is capable of doing it. If there is not a very significant improvement over the next three league games then he has to go.
I thought that Monk was the right appointment primarily because he largely followed the system that AK adopted so it was a case of having a new gaffer who didnt need to change too much to generate a promotion team. We know the players who were available to deliver that (or nearly deliver in the case of Bamford) so not much to add you would think other than get some massaging ego’s to restore confidence in those who had a poor PL season.
The problem for me is that the promise of SG in delivering improvement in pace and product has prompted Monk to bring in players who we cant, as yet, trust to deliver promotion. They may well bring power and pace but simply arent delivering value for money. Once that money is spent then “his” players cant be left out and that confuses choice and team set up over the tried and trusted. Also, it creates a dilemma for Monk in delivering whats been promised but perhaps not quite knowing how to go about it once the money is spent.
I said it weeks ago but i dont and i doubt that i ever will put Britt or Fletcher above Bamford in terms of selection despite their higher cost. And i see that as a symptom of this price tag issue because we could function so much better with him up front. He is clever, professionally and personally, and his movement and finishing stand out as being a cut above.
I dont see how a player goes from being out of the picture and out of the 18 and then back in and vice versa. I’m glad to see Ayala back but why not develop the partnership that was blossoming with Fry and Gibson. One loose decision and hes out and that doesnt tally with how others have kept their spot if you apply the same criteria.
I have a fear that comes from what Scott McDonald said weeks ago that those that were brought in under Strachan were paid very well and that may have affected how they approached games. Now i understand that most champo players are well paid but does the hunger lessen when you’re suddenly put on a bigger contract. Maybe complacency, maybe that performances just deliver themselves. I dont know but i dont think we, or SG, have seen value for money. We certainly havent bought ourselves a team on what i can see.
Where’s Nigel Pearson when you need him?
Just speculating like!
Booooooooo
Fans are seeing the same errors and flaws in our game plan week after week now and a pattern has emerged. For some reason we seem incapable of coming out of the blocks on fire and need twenty minutes or so to clear our heads and usually only after conceding a goal (or two in the case of yesterday).
The nature of the goals is a concern as they are very preventable and sloppy by nature. Once again we conceded a goal (Barnsley’s second) because Christie wasn’t in position and Ayala was out wide in the RB slot. Grant was behind him and Ayala was gesturing to Christie to cover for him but he simply ambled in behind Grant. That is a repetitive flaw yet there is clearly no understanding of who covers Christie when he goes on a raid and no organisation in who covers the CB be it Dael of Dani when they have to cover Christie. Poor organisation, confusion and amateurish coaching. Early days this Season we had Clayts dropping back into the defence, it wasn’t convincing and I’m uncertain now if that is still the supposed tactic but if so why square pegs two players when you only need a midfielder to cover at RB?
I’m not complaining about Christie, defensively he isn’t the best but we knew (or should have) that when we bought him, he does however add the required attacking pace and power. If we are going to have a defender galloping up the wing then a midfielder has to drop back and slot in or the defence moves over (as Ayala and Fry have done in games) leaving the left side exposed. The danger is the counter attack if the opponents are skilful enough and astute enough to quickly switch flanks but again this is where a Midfielder has to know his role in covering. Just leaving things as they are the defence is automatically dragged over but we then have Fabio defending crosses against Strikers which although the lad can jump is hardly ideal. It just looks a mess frankly.
Mentally there is something wrong at the start of games, we don’t look motivated until we have gifted a goal and often seem nervous and edgy at the back. That is down to confidence and belief in the side both of which are absent as is structure not helped by continually having to throw Strikers on en masse at the end of games trying to save a point. This squad with their abilities should be bossing games with 20 minutes to go, sitting on a comfortable goal cushion. Speaking of cushions our attempts at goal are impressive but our returns are appalling which again smacks of confidence and belief issues.
At the start of this season all these attempts on target were satisfying to see after AK’s sterile environment. Yes we would concede more but we would score far more and dominate teams in this league once it all gelled and clicked into gear. Put bluntly it hasn’t gelled, it hasn’t clicked and it doesn’t look remotely close to gelling or clicking in fact the fans (unknowledgeable lot that we are) cannot see any evidence of anything clicking.
With AK it became clear after only a few games that there was a plan and a system that the players strictly adhered to. It frustrated the life out of me as we would pass sideways and backwards with the intent being to keep possession, recycle the ball and draw the opposition onto us and try to spot a rare opening or gap for the lonely isolated striker, playing for set pieces to get the big lads in the box to nick one.
In no way do I want a return to that emotionally vapid style of drudgery but whatever system is employed the Players need to understand their duties and responsibilities within it. From the stands it doesn’t remotely look like they do understand hence the confusion, soft goals and having to overload the top end with strikers. There is absolutely no synergy of any kind evidenced.
Boro Fans are questioning selections before KO and formations. It looks like the Players have those same doubts but critically they are not going away in fact the charge sheet is building. Taking off Downing yesterday was a very questionable act as our supply was effectively neutered by that decision especially as Braithwaite was looking understandably tired and laboured after his lay off. If fans are spotting and thinking these things then what do the Players themselves think and the answer I suspect is the confused mess we witness week after week.
How many times do we have to keep repeating on here and elsewhere pick your system and a settled side. Planning is everything in all walks of life and we don’t seem to have any plan whatsoever. Of course if we went two up inside the opening twenty minutes a plan may emerge but as we open ourselves up gifting goals the impetus seems to be chase and chase from which we never recover composure (assuming that composure was ever in the game plan). On the positive we are seeing lots of fightbackability, hurrah, three cheers but yet we walk away with that gut wrenching feeling of more points dropped.
With the squad and facilities we have we shouldn’t be talking about “fixing” things. As it stands the side look as confused as they did with Mogga’s tactics but with the ineptitude of Strachan’s Jocktification. Right now I don’t see this team making the play offs, in fact I see them struggling to remain in the top half as squandered opportunities present themselves e.g.the two home games against Norwich and Brentford and now yesterday with Cardiff’s loss the night before.
Its now the middle of October and we have no recognisable formation, no settled playing staff with players sat in stands one week and playing the next. Its all a very bizarre style of Andy Pipkin “I want that one” management philosophy. Put simply it can’t continue much longer as nice a bloke as GM is.
Excellent RR a very astute and coherent summary of the faults and the actions needed to rectify them.
I said after the Preston game that the side and the structure were fundamentally flawed and if this was not addressed quickly then promotion would be a pipe dream.
I have not seen anything since to convince me otherwise. The only positives I saw yesterday were that Ayala had been returned to the team (albeit his display was rusty) to renew his partnership with Ben (Fry in my opinion should never have been dropped) and the inclusion of Leadbitter would provide some drive and leadership. I am not a great fan of Downing but agree that yesterday was one of his better games albeit why on earth play him on the right which reduces his effectiveness.
If he includes these players against Cardiff and swaps George for Fabio and tightens up on the areas you have highlighted, slow starts, sloppy defending and lack of cover when plays are pushing on then we might just have the makings of a team that could at least reach the play off spots.
I was in favour of GM’s appointment but am coming to the conclusion that he may not have as much ability/nouce as I thought he did in the organisation and man management departments.
I agree that it can’t be allowed to continue but I am afraid that SG’s inclination to support and act later rather than sooner could once again be our undoing.
RR, I agree with you but I think that if the right team was put out week in week out with stable and appropriate formation and tactics it would have the talent and ability in spades to be challenging at the top of the division. It is the manager who is the problem because he appears incapable of doing the necessary.
RR and KP. You’ve said it all!
This seems to have been a typical Championship match, the type of match I used to enjoy in the early 1960s. Good attacking awareness but poor finishing, heart in the mouth defending, mistakes yes, frustrating at times, but exciting. A far cry from the turgid performances of last season, and although we are defensively frail at times, I certainly would prefer that when we can muster over 20 attempts on goal to the usual 5 or 6.
The big improvement is having a player like Braithwaite and the fact that Traore missed the bus, because let’s face it he is hopeless. He may have the pace of Linfield Christie, but probably no better a footballer than Christie and I hope Boro get rid of him in January. Braithwaite may not have Traore’s pace, but his free roaming positional play and shooting ability will cause more panic to opponents than Traore could ever achieve.
Boro in my opinion are now well placed to achieve a playoff position which if we’re honest is the most we should expect. I do think that some of our supporters have been over optimistic in expecting automatic promotion this season; it rarely happens to a team relegated the previous season, whereas a promoted team, such as Sheffield United, has the impetus to repeat the feat the following season. Incidentally, if you recall, I did forecast before the season started them as one of my tips, and also that Boro would finish 4th but would get revenge by beating Norwich at Wembley in the playoff final and I still think we are on course to do that.
However, to achieve that, I would replace Fabio with Friend to shore up the defence because I prefer a left footed player on the left, and replace Fletcher with Bamford, because he is the more likely to convert the chances we create. Come on Boro, all is not lost!
We’re back in the league where, draws kill you. I can’t comment on the performance because I wasn’t there.
It would appear the manager is coming in for some heavy criticism, I’m starting to get the impression that his team selections can be affected by outside opinion.
I’ll be at the Riverside next week, looking forward it.
Yet another frustrating performance from the Boro. How many is that now? 6 out of 12 by my quick reckoning means so many wasted points.
The 11 Monk started with isn’t far off what I would have gone with, apart from George for Fabio and Bamford for Fletcher, but I’m not the manager just a fan.
Thanks for the report RR. I listened on Tees so no overall picture to comment on but although it sounded a decent game for the neutral it appears from the bbc stats we dominated without really grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck. Still too much side to side going nowhere passing and slow on the break. We need to be more ruthless in front of goal as our 21 attempts at goal with only 6 on target shows.
I agree with the view of that Fletcher hasn’t been up to the standards expected of him, or his price tag, and imo doesn’t justify selection in the starting 11. Mate who was at work text me questioning how he gets in ahead of Bamford, I replied it’s because Monk bought Fletcher not PB and if he consistently left him out in favour of PB it would possibly be an admission he may have got it wrong. Fletcher is young and raw I suppose and I sincerely hope he does come good but at the minute that’s not what we need.
Maddo did sound very flat on his summing up of the performance, with a big dollop of frustration thrown in. He was full of praise for Grant, his man of the match, and sounded bewildered when Monk took Downing off for Bamford. Listening it did sound like Stewie, along with Braithwaite, was at the forefront of our attacking efforts.
We need to do 1 of 2 things which will in this posters opinion have us climbing the league and pushing for that promotion spot. Stop giving gifting poorly defended soft goals OR start to convert more of the chances we create. Sounds simple doesn’t it! Winning 1-0 or 4-2 would do either way for me.
I listened to Monks after match interview on Tees and I think he as fairly honest in his summing up with a distinct lack of spin for us mug punters to swallow. He did state on air that the reason Traore wasn’t in the squad was because he actually missed the coach! He didn’t go into details but you could almost sense him clenching and unclenching his fists in frustration as he spoke. I thought we had got rid of this amateurish aspect to the way the club goes about its business. Unless Adama had a reason we are not privy to.
3 points off the play offs and 7 off an automatic promotion spot isn’t insurmountable but unless “we” pull our collective fingers out it could be a frustrating season ahead.
So is it the managers failure to prepare the team or the team failing to carry out his instructions and game plan. Worryingly for me is that I think it is a combination of the 2.
Thanks to RR for another well written excellent match report and it also helped to fill in the 10 minute gap shortly after Boro scored their second when my iFollow feed froze and I had to restart the laptop – after which I suddenly noticed George Friend on the pitch and wondered what had happened to Fabio.
I’d also agree with RR and other who thought Downing looked one of our better players, alongside Braithwaite and Leadbitter. Stewy has often come under criticism but what he does give you is some vision to pick out team-mates and link the play better than what we’ve seen from Adama and Johnson lately.
I did argue in my pre-match that I thought playing with runners like the aforementioned players as the means of getting the ball up the pitch often breaks down as they run into bodies – it seems Monk must have made similar observations following Brentford.
I wasn’t too impressed with Assombalonga again and I think he’s nothing more than a box finisher, who has looked short on confidence in recent weeks and is not that often in the actual box. At one point in the second half he was playing on the right but lacked the feet to create anything or bring others into play. Either Boro need to play to his main strength or he shouldn’t be a starter – we have better players, with better vision and control to play in the positions on the pitch where he often chooses to play.
Another concern for me is Clayton’s ball distribution, it’s often short and backwards or sideways and slows down any attacking momentum – if Boro are to create real scoring opportunities rather than half-chances then there needs to be more vision from those in the central midfield roles. Clayton is good at what he does but is what he does enough?
Whether the return of Ayala is part of a long-term strategy is not clear at this point but on today’s performance he didn’t look more accomplished than Fry. So if Monk is serious about restoring the Ayala Gibson partnership then he must persist with Ayala until he’s match fit – whether that is the correct decision is another matter.
Finally, Monk said after the game that if Boro play like they did yesterday then they’d win more than they lose – which to me sounds more of an aspiration for mid-table obscurity than anything remotely close to the top of the table. We’ve dropped our standards in recent games and dropped 7 easily achievable points in the process, which incidentally would have had us sitting in second spot. The challenge for Monk is to get a team on the pitch that can win games consistently, perhaps yesterday didn’t work exactly to plan but he seems to have considered that it’s about the overall blend and not just the best individual in each position.
Talking about Clayts limited passing range I shake my head at the tactic of rolling the ball out from Randolph to Ben to then pass it about through the ranks to try and get it upfield to where the theoretical danger men (21 shots with 6 on target) are in front of goal.
We clearly don’t have the clever ball players that are capable of knocking the ball around comfortably and consequently we often lose possession in the middle of the pitch and are then back under pressure. Hoofing it upfield of course means that possession becomes a 50/50 lottery. We have the calibre of players (Bamford, Braithwaite and Downing) capable of intelligently reading that second phase. Tracking the flight and turning a defended header into a knock down from which to launch an attack in the final third. It offers less risk than our present uncomfortable, dysfunctional passing in our own final third amongst players that look anything but comfortable or confident on the ball at the moment.
Please RR, can’t you accept that us supporters know nuffin and we should simply allow the ‘professionals’ to do the extremely difficult task of managing a football team at the highest levels.
My, would you destroy the mystic?
😉
Sorry to say, you were warned.
This manager is, I am afraid to say, a fool.
He arrived with a ready made team which was a ready made promotion team.
They had been there (twice) just played a season in the Prem. No problems defensively, team the right age, plenty of money.
He ruined it, spent money on every position.
Set about getting rid of the defence.
Still one to go,(but he is the nephew of the chairman)
Watch this space?
🙂
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/14/martin-oneill-is-in-the-managerial-elite-even-if-a-top-job-eludes-him
Interesting read!
Garry Monk’s after match summary was that he saw improvement, and I think he’s right. He selected the team which most people expected, maybe though not what most of us would have chosen. I obviously didn’t see the match, but like the Yorkshire Post reporter, most neutrals thought it was an exciting match with occasional exhilarating passages of play. I realise that from a Boro fans perspective it wasn’t the result supporters expected, but let’s be realistic, this is the Championship with no stand out team such as Southampton, Leicester, Bournemouth or even Newcastle, and although we have spent £M it cannot be said that we have spent well.
That may be the manager’s fault, but in my opinion the squad is not as good as that which played in the last two Championship seasons. We created 21 chances yesterday but only 6 on target, and Barnsley’s goalkeeper didn’t have much to save out of those six, and there lies the trouble. Is Assombalonga a better striker than Bamford or indeed Stuani? Is Fletcher a better winger than Adomah? Not in my opinion. How many of our purchases have been worth the fee or have improved the team? Only Randolph, Christie and Braithwaite, a bit of a maverick, but ideally suited to the number 10 spot.
Many of you who watch the matches can see where we lack organisation, but is that the manager’s fault. If you on this forum can see what is required, why can’t the players? Are the players carrying out the manager’s instructions? Once on the field of play there’s little that the manager can do, it’s up to the players to take more responsibility and for the captain to organise. That’s why it’s imperative that Grant Leadbitter keeps his place because he is an outstanding captain and the only midfielder likely to score.
Ken
There are a number of contradictions in your post e.g. are the players carrying out GM’s instructions- if they are not then they shouldn’t play. The responsibility rests with GM. Still the first goal came from a move down the left. Our RB by reports was AWOL. He,
has the RB been a starter for a large amount of games.
The RCB position has had 3 players in the last 3 games. This hardly promotes understanding or consistancy. Ayala is one of my favorite players- when did he last play? A rusty performance can hardly be surprising. Who picked him? GM of course.
Then we have the much maligned SD. He’s a veteran of over 30+ internationals ON THE LEFT! What’s the reason for putting him on the right? Did someone miss the bus? Did someone feel undermined/disrespected because he was publically rebuked in a regional newspaper article by his manager? Who knows? But who put SD on the right? GM did.
I’ve been banging on about how vital the manager’s job is and still people blame the players. As I said previously, if the head (the manager) is dizzy the body (the players/team) will fall over ( fail to achieve their potential).
Now is time for GM to go or we may find we have to miss promo this season and start with another new manager next.
Just sayin like.
But Downing is two footed and so perfectly adept to play on the right.
Maybe he keeps on changing the personell because they don’t adhere to his instructions, e.g. Traore .
My understanding, please correct me if I’m wrong, this that Downing never played for Eng-ger-lund on the right. This would suggest to me he is far more suited to a left of play role, in effect his optimum place.
You don’t comment on the need to play him on the right due to the absence of Traore and the reasons why.
Ultimately, as the great Ian Gill is oft to print ‘the table never lies’. We’ve spent £40m + and at game 12 of the season we can’t beat Barnsley.
Mr Monk your time is up!
I likened yesterday’s performance to what was the norm in the early 1960s where we conceded far more goals than we do nowadays, but also scored many more because we had Brian Clough and Alan Peacock. It was never dull in those days with goals aplenty for and against. In the first four years, Boro finished 5th twice and 4th once as many of you will remember. OK we never quite looked like getting promotion, but if there had been playoffs at the time we probably would have done. So let’s take a brief look at how we performed.
The end of the 1950s had finished disappointingly with 13th position in the 1958/59 season. I had missed the previous two seasons having spent 18 months doing my National Service in Singapore. Brian Clough had started his career by scoring 38 league goals in 1956/57 when Boro finished 6th, then another 40 the following season with Alan Peacock supporting him with 15 goals when Boro finished 7th. So I was quite excited on my arrival back in England to hear that Boro had beaten newly promoted Brighton 9-0 in the opening match of the 1958/59 season with Clough scoring 5, Peacock 2 and Bill Harris converting 2 early penalties. What a pity Clough hadn’t taken the penalties I thought. But truth to tell, despite 6-1, 5-0 and 6-2 home wins against Scunthorpe, Derby and Swansea respectively, a 6-4 win at Brighton after having led 5-0, and Clough scoring 43 goals and Peacock another 19, Boro finished as lowly 13th.
In September 1959 Boro had their first win of the season AWAY at Derby 7-1 yet Clough failed to score and he wasn’t too pleased despite the win, for it was Peacock who scored 4 with Billy Day, Eddie Holliday and Bill Harris also on the scoresheet. That was followed by three home matches – Cardiff 1-1 (a Harris penalty), Plymouth 6-2 ( Clough 4, Peacock 2) and Hull 4-0. Then followed a 2-1 away win at Liverpool (Boro’s 4th successive win at Anfield), a 3-3 draw at Hull and after a 3-0 home win against Charlton, Boro had reached 2nd position in the league. Unfortunately they never reached that lofty position again despite an unbeaten home record of 11 wins in 13 matches.
After the Liverpool win Boro simply couldn’t win away from home, only one draw in 6 matches which included a 0-5 battering at Leyton Orient. December started with several players unhappy about Clough’s criticism of some of his colleagues, and a round-robin letter signed by some of them was sent to the manager demanding he be stripped of the captaincy. However the crowd showed their allegiance to him in the first match of the month against Brighton which Boro won 4-1 starting a sequence of 17 goals in 5 matches including three successive away matches – Stoke 5-2, Portsmouth 3-6, and a Christmas double over 2nd place Rotherham 2-0 and 3-0, so when that was followed by a 3-0 home win over Derby, hopes were high that a promotion push could be made.
By March Boro had reached 3rd having beaten Bristol City 6-3 with another Clough hat trick, and then came the crunch match with a crowd of 39,432 anticipating that a win over league leaders Aston Villa would push us into 2nd place and only a couple of points behind. Unfortunately a 0-1 defeat followed by 2-5 defeat at lowly Lincoln scuppered our chances and Boro eventually finished 5th some eleven points behind Champions Villa and ten behind Cardiff. Yet Boro had scored 90 goals with Clough bagging another 39, but had conceded 64. Boro only lost two home matches, but only won five away from home, and that together with a defence like a colander was the main reason why. But what an exciting season it had been, pity there was no playoff system then, because if Boro had got promotion they would certainly have had a strike force to at least make an impression in the First Division.
The following season more or less followed the same pattern. – 5th with the same number of points 48, only two home defeats but only five away wins, but it did include the 6-6 away draw at Charlton which I think was the final straw for Brian Clough. He was very forceful in his comments about Boro’ s defending. “How is it possible not to win a match after scoring six goals” was the gist of his anger, for having scored another 34 times it turned out to be his last season before signing for Sunderland.
The following season Joe Livingstone took over Clough’s number 9 jersey, but only for the first two matches, then swapping numbers with Alan Peacock who had accumulated 65 goals whilst playing alongside Clough in the five previous seasons. Peacock went on to increase that number to 125 league goals before his transfer to Leeds and he eventually earned six England caps including two at Rancagua, Brazil against Argentina and Bulgaria in the 1962 World Cup group matches.
Ken
The stats are amazing, but the people at the top should have been shot.
To have strikers who filled the ground, and to have defenders who should have been in a circus was bad. To do nothing about it for many seasons was quite mad.
There was no explanation, just ” jolly hard luck”
After the event, I understand that several players (some of them Boro ) spent time in prison?
With strikers like that I believe a quick purchase of about three solid veteran defenders would have solved the problem of promotion(but who am I say?)
Monk , not a happy man !
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/football/middlesbrough/15597487.MIDDLESBROUGH__Garry_Monk_brands_Adama_Traore_s__behaviour__unacceptable__after_midfielder_was_dropped_for_missing_team_bus/?ref=rss
Smoke and mirrors…. not convinced. A public warning would have been my approach.
First many thanks to RR for his match report and follow up post. I also thought Werder’s last post was well put.
My stream was perfect throughout, apart from the camera angle which missed the bottom part of the pitch.
The slow start I really believe now to be a mental thing. Letting in so many early goals cannot give the defence much confidence, as RR has often pointed out in his match reports of late. So they start off “Mogga Style” to see how the opposition play. Unfortuanately there are gaps all over the place at the moment, uncertainty at corners and set pieces, compounded by having all our players in the box at such times……it’s like Dixons Bank at 5 o’clock.
I have not seen the goals replayed, missing the first, what was Fletcher doing, but thought Randolf should have done better with the second. Then with the shot off the post, where was the midfilield tracking back?
I also agree with Werder in that Clayton is not contributing enough to warrent his place. Grant was twice as effective yesterday. Also all this passing side to side between the defenders. Why can’t they sideways pass the ball INFRONT of the player they are passing to, instead of to his side or even behind him…..this really gets my goat from a so called professional.
Again I want to have the opportunity to be proven right, or wrong over Bamford. Can anyone on here really champion the inclusion of Fletcher. What type of farward is he supposed to be? Somebody mentioned him beig a “winger”, …certainly not. Bringing Paddy on for the last seven or so minutes was an insult and pushes Mr Monk even further down in my current opinion of his capabilities.
When you see the stats as many have pointed out, only 6 on target, 2 of which were goals. Most of the others were wide and high. Remember some of Grant’s thunderba****ds? Where has that ability gone? I think Werder is correct in that Britt is essentially a six yard box man, however he did take his goal rather well.
But how many crosses did we get into the box(es) from the by-line. Not many I think. These are Britts type balls. Even when George came on, he was turning inside, not one cross I believe from his left foot.
And SD, yes lots of accurate cross field passes, but most of his balls into the box are delivered from deep, so generally a defenders ball. Service to the front men was poor. So yes 26 shots was it. Sounds good to somebody that did not watch the match, but in reality, not many really counted.
Boro and Mr Monk especially have been lucky. Still within distance, at the moment, of the top six. It’s a topsy turvy league we all know that. But can the Manager improve us……he does not convince me at this time. His team selections are bit like the cup draws. Hand into the bag, give them a shuffle and see who comes out for this weeks game. For sure I don’t think Paddys number is in the bag.
Yesterday I was left shaking my head in disappointment. This was predicted right from the start and now the spread sheets confirm what was , deep down, everyones first honest impression from our opening defeat against Wolves.
Of course everyone said then that it wasnt so bad [rose glasses everyone] well look where we are now I cant believe I was the only one who saw it from the beginning.
My comment after watching that match is below
“After smashing the league and losing 1-0 I am amazed at the acceptance of it all. The team were rubbish, the tactics diabolical and the new signings unremarkable to say the least. Next 2 games have to deliver 6 points or else its Monk out for me.
In the past all the managers have regardless of the result brought something new. this one didn’t and I am almost at the stage of wishing AK was back to at least install some defensive order onto the whole show,
As a member of the most respected blog in football with its measure responses and cool analytical views and the acceptance of well its only Boro I am concerned that we take a defeat too easily with the well hackneyed phrases of its a long season, the team are only beginning to gel etc etc. What they hell are we paying them for!!
Wake up and smell the coffee guys this is another slow motion train wreck and its started with game no.1.
This is not rant, this an observation and a warning to you all.
BTW great report RR but for sure your rose tinted glasses were well and truly glued to your nose.
We were crepe and in my mind not shoeing we were the so called most expensive team in this league.
Just moaning like!!”
And Werdermouth’s response was
“It’s quite possible you may have gone a tad early on preparing to unwind the ‘Monk out’ banner – but at least you’ve avoided any accusation of jumping on the bandwagon as they’ve barely finished tuning up… btw has anyone even put the coffee on yet?”
And now I think the time has come for change before its too late. There is nothing wrong with the squad – just needs direction thats all.
Still ranting and moaning….
BTW the Gazza show was awful and a money making rip off, sadly not for him but the hangers on around him. He was pumped and wheeled out to ramble on like a half concious zombie and didnt mention the Boro once in his whole reminiscents.
I was really saddened by the whole show.
Allan, I still stand by my assertion that one game is too soon to call for the manager to be sacked – in fact even a dozen games is too soon despite the less than satisfactory performances so far this season.
Garry Monk is still trying to work out how to get the best out of what he’s got at his disposal and perhaps some of the players have been flattered by their price-tags. Also errors and decisions by players have cost us at both ends of the pitch so you can’t lay the whole blame on just the manager.
Yes Garry Monk has made errors too – but show me a manager who hasn’t? Even the so-called great managers had less than illustrious starts to their jobs and they often have far better players to work with.
I’m of the view you give someone a reasonable amount of time to try and do the job you employed them for – one game is not that period nor is 12 games. I’m sure Monk notices many of the same things we do but he’s also got to speak more carefully to avoid causing rifts in his squad – leadership is about finding solutions by taking people under your charge with you and trying not to undermine their confidence in the process.
I think Monk is intelligent and articulate and should hopefully get his message across to the players – I’d like to see his vision of a more progressive style of football come to fruition – it’s probably a harder task than just drilling players into a more functional, less expansive style of football.
Though Boro are under-performing on expectations and maybe it’s also not meeting those expectations that perhaps is causing some of the players to not perform at the desired level. Garry Monk is perhaps still finding out which players can bring their game in training onto the match pitch consistently.
Werdermouth, I agree wholeheartedly with your views. There is no way that Steve Gibson will sack Garry Monk either this season or next. We all need to be patient.
Werder
No league club can give any manager two years of trial before (regretfully ) giving him the push.
Three failures in a row would mean 6-7 years of failure and a sliding attendance.
We did just that before we were lucky enough to sign AK.
When one thinks of his reign, non stop interest from the word go.
The strange reaction to his complete abolition of goals against(hysteria)
The fury when he took us to the Wembley play offs.
the cries of “lucky so and so” when we went up.
The open anger when the Brighton player was sent off for trying to cripple our play maker. I think they wanted to hang the Ref(and that was our “supporters”)
We made an awful mistake when we fired him.
We should ask him if he fancies another go.
This fellow has made no sense since the day he came.
He is now getting nasty, saying foolish things, has no idea, will not improve,
We should cut our loses and bid him a fond farwell.
I think some have set their expectations too high. This is the Boro after all. Throughout my 70 plus years being a Boro supporter I have been frustrated and exhilarated by them in equal measure. Surely yesterday’s match was a far better spectacle than most of last season’s dross. Yes, our best years were the Mannion years and the Riverside Revolution, but finances dictate that those years will never be repeated. Think back to 1986 when we nearly lost our football club, and spare a thought for the former 13 Football League clubs now languishing in the the National League and the likes of Darlington and Stockport who are in lower leagues than that. It could well have been the Boro.
By all the Gods’ teeth, I thought we’d buried that procrastination of a word ‘patience’ for all eternity. I was wrong.
Bayern don’t procrastinate, we do. Guess who is the team in the Champions League and guess who is spending their eighth season outta nine in the English Championship.
That’s OK chaps, the last time we were patient it cost us a place in the Premiership. But hey we grabbed a big bag of money. Now what have we got so far for that?
Enough already, mag to grid.
I wouldn’t necessarily place Bayern Munich as the yardstick to measure Boro against and I suspect it’s not their lack of procrastination that gives them the advantage over their rivals.
I’d also suggest Boro are in a different part in the managerial life cycle than when we found ourselves sliding out of the PL under Karanka. We’d gone through his early days when he struggled to get his ideas working on the pitch (remember than run of seven games without scoring) and he worked through that with the help of several transfer windows to reach peak Karanka, and we thankfully got promoted despite his influence starting to wane.
Twelve games is no time at all to work out the dynamics of finding the best way to play with a squad of around 25 players – every change will have an effect on other players around them and some players will not be able to deliver what you want at a desirable consistency.
I would also forget the £40m+ Boro paid as indicating any right to be at the top – £25m of that was spent on just two players, one of which missed most of the season due to injury and the other looks considerably over-priced. Then there’s Fletcher at £7m who is no more than a young prospect with potential and then another £5m or so on Howson who rarely looked like being what he was hoped. So despite the money spent it doesn’t mean that the manager had everything he needed ready to go.
Any new manager coming in will have the same problems but he’ll be starting from 12 games ago – so how much time will you give him? What is your maximum patience threshold? How long would you give Martin O’Neil for example? He failed to win any of his last 8 games in his first season at Sunderland but they kept him on but sacked him the next season when he went on a similar run and picked up just 3 points from 24.
I think maybe you are expecting good managers should be able to achieve instant results – I suspect the road is a lot more bumpy than many had hoped following the pre-season hype of smashing the league just because the club splashed some cash around to force the market.
Appointing a Manager is always a gamble. There is no cast iron guarantee of success. If GM was dismissed, I ask again, as I did a few weeks ago, who would you like to replace him?
Steely
Ultimately it ain’t my problem to replace GM. Ican waft a few names at you but I also know that the support staff are equally important. I give you one Stewart Downing. I think he has potential. Chances are he’d have to climb the learning curve a league or two lower.
Yet, wait a minute, where was Robbo when SG appointed him. Lots of experience and wins? No! Still we made a final or two-no? What about Southgate? Where was he before being appointed? They say timing is all. Well his timing was off & the support disappeared under his feet like a rag being pulled. Finally, we have Schtevey Mc. Where was he before being appointed? Second fiddle that’s where he was but we got to a European Cup final.
Then what about Big Nige? He got Leicester promo’d. Currently, he’s kicking his heels in Leuven, Belgium. What’s the chances he would swim the channel to take up the job.
Then there’ O’ Nelli. Yes, I know he’s recently signed a two year ext with Ireland BUT if they fail to qualify then he’s twiddlin his thumbs for six month or more.
There are others out there champing at the bit for a golden opportunity like what the Boro has to offer. I recognise that the procrastination syndrome SG has will not be easily shifted and our chances of promo WILL be gone if the current situ continues and we have no change. Yet, it is what it is & the more mature amongst us will continue to repeat the same mantra as they did the exact same day AK was turfed out the door.
Still, in an ideal world, to answer your question, I would appoint MO’N as I believe he’s the best fit available at present times- that’s if he does become available that is like :).
The only consolation I take from my accurate prediction of the score is we didn’t lose.
Allan in Bahrain.
Your summing up of the Gazza show is how I remember his Boro career, a shambolic rip-off performed with complete contempt to the paying audience.
Hi Chris
Ref. Gazza- wasn’t there something of an alcohol abuse culture prevalent at the club at the time. I remember Merson had issues. Robbo was he clean? The club as employer had and have a duty of care toward their employees as do all businesses in the UK. Why wasn’t Gazza’s problem addressed by senior management?
Just askin like
Now where’s Gilly when you need him?
OFB? GHW? Come in- are you there, like!
I’m unsurprised that there are no responses.
Lacking patience, probably.
Incidentally on Saturday in a TWR Shipowners Charity Cup match after a 2-2 draw and extra time a penalty shoot out ended with Sunderland West End defeating Redcar Athletic 11-10. I’m not sure how many penalties were missed, but 21 successful ones is very unusual for an amateur match. Just thought it was worth mentioning.
Away at my best friends for the weekend in Middleham – for the likes of jarkko it is up in the Yorkshire Dales.
Come 3.00pm there was a decision to make.
The rules are quite strict.
1. the woman is always right.
2. I case of dispute rule one always applies.
There are some dispensations where Men rules can be involved, in our case, the daughter was with us and along with our beloved wives, retail therapy was their intention.
One of the largely unknown men’s rules is that Saturday is for sport, shopping is not a sport. The beauty of this rule is that it gives an opportunity to get rid of us.
They set off to sundry retail outlets, we headed into the village in search of sustenance and sky sports, at that point ManCiteh were winning and we were 2-1 down already.
The first pub had stopped the subscription but having ordered a Black Sheep bitter we thought it rude not to drink it but we could rely on mobile connectivity. No joy but we got speaking to a couple of blokes.
In the next pub still no sky but there was Theakston bitter. Lots of Stable lads listening to horse racing – plenty of horses up there. Got chatting to another chap in there.
Moved on to find a pub owning a small TV with skysports drinking Timothy Taylors. 2-2 at this point and Citeh out of sight.
Back in time to cut the grass – needed a miners light! Missed the 200.
Having missed most of the weekends proceedings it seems as if nothing has progressed.
Just for Spartak, points on the board please.
Loved the defiance of Monk, the sure sign of a manager who knows he has lost it.
To field a side who have no pace.
To slag of the only player who possesses pace.(never used, of course)
Then to publicly state that he “missed the bus”
Yea! Right.
To never start the most useful playmaker.
To wreck a readymade defence.
Then let goals in for fun.
I now know why Swansea, in the words of the song” waved him goodbye without a word of farewell”
Hi Spartak
I’d suggest there’s an alcohol abuse culture in this country from which football isn’t immune.
Gascoigne was paid a tremendous salary and delivered not so much.
Merson delivered on the pitch and offered value for money in terms of performance and entertainment, regardless of any problems he may have had.
I’d also suggest Robson has been a colossal influence on the club and a pivotal figure in the club’s history.
Werder I have to disagree regarding enough time to click ,you are being too generous regarding the present regime .
If you are clear of thought ,know your formation,know the type of player required ,and use them to their best ability ,you should succeed, whether you spend a fortune or not,it should be easier of course if you do spend,and obviously buy the right kind of player.
Jack Charlton had a six week pre season and turned a team into unbeatables.
Silva at Bull last season turned them into a team,look what he is doing at Watford.
Monk as had enough time, to create a team.
I watched the Birmingham v Cardiff game, the quality of player was abysmal, awfully, no wonder Sheffield U, can push up from ,dic 1 to championship.
I then watched Boro v Brentford again, at one point in the first half ,we were one down ,and there was a lengthy break with an injury most of the players went over on the sideline for a drink, Monk just stood there , looked lost,then players were hanging around chatting to each other and the Brentford p!Ayers almost like a testimonial game.
I also noticed very little urgency in their play Maddo mentioned it yesterday he commented nobody is moving.
I see a team without focus depending on individuals to get something.
The league is crap ,and we have the best squad on paper,with a manager who is disciplined, because it starts at the top,and is clear on his intentions, we would run away with this without any doubt,
Sadly I’m not convinced that’s the case.
Everyone blames AK ,for last season, how many games were left when he went, and why didn’t we sign experienced and better quality players in January, these are the questions,very strange?
GT, your point about urgency is a good one. The Sunday Times reporter covering the Wolves game wrote in yesterday’s paper how impressed he was with the “driving intensity” of the Wolves play. Does anyone think that Monk can get the Boro team playing with the same attitude because they sure as hell need to.
Normally I would be patient with a new manager needing time to settle in but we are now a quarter way into the Season and there are zero signs of improvement, structure or organisation. There does not appear to any coherent footballing strategy but already there does appear to be certain “favourites” presumed to be based upon price tags or who signed them.
The three best players on the pitch against Barnsley were Braithwaite, Grant and Stewy by a country mile. Interesting that two of them were not considered as starters and more likely fringe players at best for the squad. Despite those performances at Oakwell is there anyone on here who would be surprised if say Stewy and Grant were both left in the West Stand Upper for the Cardiff game with Johnson and Howson coming in?
GM is undoubtedly very likeable with a great persona for the media, he generally talks well and answers questions astutely. That in itself ticks a lot of boxes but the most important boxes to be ticked are the ones in the Column marked with a big “W” in the league table.
Next weekend sees a lot of the top half teams play each other with ourselves playing Cardiff, yet another opportunity for a win to make a difference in our league position. I don’t see any shoots for optimism out on the pitch other than if GM sticks with the older heads like Grant and Stewy who will get him out of a mess caused by his naive tinkering. Twelve games is perhaps too early to get rid but in twelve games its also too late not to see any evidence of where we are headed, something for the fans to buy into!
The biggest worry however must be that if Allan sees me as rose tinted then if I was SG let alone GM I would be afraid, very afraid :-0
A chance to properly read through the reports and posts, not too many positive views expressed.
The early season hope and optimism is turning to concern and a re aligning of expectations. There is time but every week that goes by without kicking on makes the hill a little bit harder to climb.
Paul Ince’s name seems to be being mentioned……..
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! in my best Edvard Munch impersonation.
Absolutley NOT. Mr Monk will get plenty more time, wins or no wins. That is the way of SG. However the season end may be different.
The irony is that probably Wolves apart, most teams are throwing points down the drain. Can GM get us to click, cut out the “shoot ourselves in the foot” goals and make some of the opportunities and shots on goal into REAL shots at the goal itself.
If he can do that, progress can be made I am sure. Just not sure he is capable though……hope I am wrong.
Did Adoma miss the bus or did GM throw him under it?
Forever
Paul Ince is one of many who have worked as a manager with varying degrees of success.
The LMA has a huge collection of CV’s, the difficulty is knowing who will provide the best fit.
At the moment we are between a rock and a hard place, we are stuttering. We have had a service and replaced lots of bits but the engine is misfiring. Is there something that was missed or is their a fault in the engine management unit. They are expensive to replace and there is no plug in diagnostics to check.
Well I think the Boro were like me after the game on Saturday
PISTON BROKE
I’m not so sure GM is as safe as some are suggesting – if we lost the next three or four his position would surely become untenable. As it is, it feels like we are on a knife edge and it could go either way at the moment – either it will all click and we’ll storm up the table or we could become increasingly demoralised and slide down the table.
If we did sack Monk though, Gibson would not be in a position to demand top two from the next manager, and if we had got to that stage then we could probably kiss an automatic promotion place goodbye anyway. So we’d better hope Monk sorts it out. I’m as baffled by some of the team selections as anyone – we don’t see what goes on at Rockcliffe, so we can only guess at the decision making, but for Ayala to come from fourth choice to second choice in the space of a couple of weeks seems bizarre.
O, for some emotionally vapid drudgery!
Good post
Meant to add as well – the table almost looks better than the situation feels. Yes, Wolves worryingly look like they may run away with it, but you’d struggle to imagine any of the next 4 (Cardiff, Sheff Utd, Preston, Bristol City) finishing in the top two (or even the top six). So, some of our rivals aren’t having it much better at the moment.
Stating the obvious, but a win against Cardiff on Saturday would be huge.
Borophil
Wolves were my tip before the season started. However, I now consider them as one of many who could win it, nothing special but able to find a way to win. Boro should have at least got a point from that first game.
Could the ” fine margin” be all down to the coaching and tactics, because I now believe that Boro have a better squad than most if not all the teams.
Something is wrong and I think it may be something we have not yet considered. ( or not found out)
Reputations and price tags should not determine team selection.
based on what I have seen so far, I would go with
Randolf
Christie, Ayala, Gibbo, Friend
Clayton Grant
Paddy Braithwaite Britt Downing
Braithwaite as number ten. With Britt up top.
Johnson and Adoma to offer pace from the bench
Forshaw could replace Clayts at some point as he will occasionally play the ball forward.
But most importantly, I would stick with it for the next ten games ( were possible) and wait for a click.
Hopefully the click will come before the tap on the shoulder.
Agree that if GM is despatched then his replacement would be working to a reduced target
Old Billy, I agree with with what you say and with almost all the players in your team selection with the exception of Christie. I think he is a liability defensively and I would like to see Fabio given a run at right back.
Pretty much agree with Old Billy’s thinking. Keep the side together and use the squad for injuries and suspensions when needed not for constant rotation. The starting eleven is open to debate but I would guess that at least on 7 or 8 of Old Billy’s starting eleven we would all agree with.
On Christie he does add an attacking dimension but leaves us exposed at the back but to me that is an organisational problem not Christie’s problem. Its clear that when he goes rampaging a CB usually covers but who covers the CB? I would rather Grant or Clayts covers at RB and leave the CB’s where they work best. If Monk has a different mindset then fine but please make sure everyone knows their roles and responsibilities because at the moment they are winging it.
A settled side is the only way to make this team gel. It may mean presently leaving signings like say Howson out but thats the incentive, Clayts and Grant pick up cards like confetti at a wedding so he will get his chance. In a settled organised team, one player can slip in seamlessly if there is order on the pitch. At the minute especially against Brentford it looked like a lucky dip. Howson as an example (and others) can then stake his claim making Grant or Clayts wait their turn.
Same goes for the likes of Fletcher and Gestede when back fit but that should also apply evenly and equally to Paddy who I would incidentally have in my starting eleven. Organisation, settled tactics, formation and stick with it. Ayala is rusty but we know he will settle and come good again. Don’t drop for dropping’s sake, keep him in the side as he brings a huge advantage at Corners and indeed Christie’s throw ins as we saw on Saturday. I have no problem if GM decides that Fry is his preference but the same thing applies, stop tinkering and stop players being constrained mentally by watching their backs instead of focussing on the game in real time. Players will make mistakes, they always have and always will but immediate benching or worse doesn’t help mindsets and I believe that is a major part of our current defensive problem.
I agree with BoroPhil above in that I’m not so sure GM will get the grace that other Boro managers have historically had. He has had the best resourced squad of any Manager in this league and yet sides like Brentford and Barnsley make us look ordinary. Its easier and better all round for everyone if GM does succeed but he will only succeed if he sticks to a settled formation and side, one that we can all see what he is trying to achieve and so will the players.
Synergy only works if everyone is in harmony, we are missing that vital ingredient. With the quality of players at his disposal that synergy (i.e. Downing’s through ball into space for Britt to run onto) will only happen with understanding and continuity. Once these Players instinctively know the other’s habits and traits, where they are likely to pop up and when and how they like the ball played to them we will click and surge up this league. Its up to GM if he wants to look back on his Boro time with regret and frustration or settle on a system, the ball is presently in his court but the clock is ticking.
Boroexile. I believe Christie was originally a winger.
For anyone like me that is interested in football statistics I’ve recently found a website where the current and historical football results for any season of all English clubs can be found :-
https://www.11v11.com
I often use that one Ken it’s very good – another couple I use are worldfootball.net and soccerbase:
http://www.worldfootball.net/players/eng-championship-2017-2018/
http://www.soccerbase.com/tournaments/home.sd
Following Boro from a distance and seeing very few matches but relying on the excellent reporting of Redcar Red and a lot of other bloggers Boro seem to have become a polar opposite of the Karanka years.
The team seems to have changed from a highly drilled and disciplined defensive unit that scored few goals to a team that can score goals but have no discipline or sense of their respective roles are. Boro have some good players, possibly great players, but a manager that doesn’t seem to know how to harness and utilise the abilities within the team.
We don’t even seem to be able to defend furiously for the first ten or fifteen minutes so that we don’t give away sloppy goals, amazingly our Stevie Mac red zone isn’t the last ten but the first ten minutes. Simply amazing to quote a pundit so what do they do on the training pitch? A two week break to sort it out and it seems even worse than it was.
Is it possible to settle a team, hopefully the best team, and get them working as a cohesive unit? I for one don’t think this manager can, perhaps he’s missing his old assistant manager. Unless there are some changes in management I feel Boro are heading for low, mid-table mediocrity and a season of unfulfilled promise. The Norwich fans around where I live cannot understand what has happened to Howson for instance. And as for ‘missing the bus’ that really is unbelievable or is it a sign of a deeper malaise?
As an earlier blogger said we have more questions than answers and some of them are answers to basic football necessities, like a manager knowing what his best side is and employing tactics that get the best out of the best settled side. The theory that football is a squad has some traction but you still only put eleven on the field so don’t treat the team/squad like a Woolies’ pick’n’mix’.
I do feel just a little frustrated about it all. Does GM feel any sense of frustration?
As the youngsters say, whatever.
UTB,
John
I wouldn’t worry too much about a “best XI” but you do expect to see a core of seven or eight playing most weeks. For GM so far, it has only been Randolph, Christie, Gibson, Clayton and Assombalonga. I suspect Braithwaite would be added to that list were it not for injury. That’s six.
I agree with Borophil’s posts – it feels right on the edge now. Still possible to come good but less reason to think it might with each passing week.
Defeat on Saturday could be it for GM. Maybe it should. I can really see the argument from both sides on this one and it’s interesting reading the well reasoned cases either way here.
Andy R,
I agree, minor adjustment with a purpose, particularly away however I don’t see GM leaving. How long is the contract that would have to be paid-up?
UTB,
John
A bit longer than Guedioura’s and Aggers I would guess!
We have no divine right to “smash” the league. The manager ( who is vastly more qualified than the amateur tacticians on here) will do his job to the best of his ability. If that isn’t good enough then results will determine the length of his tenure.
Is the squad good enough? Are the players just a little bit overrated? Is there still a residue of changing room unrest still leftover from Boro AK? Perhaps there are still some bad apples there that need to be shifted.
All conjecture on my part, but to call for the managers head without knowing all the facts is a little bit premature in my opinion.
A Manager is judged on his results which is why most of them only last a few seasons at best with the likes of Fergie or Wenger being the obvious stand out exceptions to the rule. Even Mourinho gathers no moss.
There are always dressing room and training ground exchanges and disagreements at any club (Fergie and Beckham) its part and parcel of the game. The Spanish contingent have been removed, there is very little else apart from normal personality clashes due to attitudes, wages, abilities, arrogance and even age based behavioural patterns. Of course if the Manager’s style and tactics stink the place out then those who express dissatisfaction will do so more loudly as the weeks go by, its natural and its what we all do at work.
Without doubt something is amiss behind the scenes but as things stand on the surface it looks to be tactical and questionable management decisions. Six wins on the bounce and any dissenters will lie low with their gobs firmly shut regardless of which club it is. GM needs to start a run in earnest now.
RR
Try not to speak of ” the Spanish contingent” in that tone of voice.
Most fans can only look back in wonder at the sheer involvement in the great game which that group of people gave us for three seasons after the dross which we had endured for at least seven+ seasons.
We can only dream of such happenings right now.
And they talk of giving this chap his three seasons of trial and error, my god.
Points on the board says more than anyone’s opinion, GHW.
The fact we leak not one but two goals in the first 10mins does not bode well for anyone at the Boro. Were the problems isolated cases then maybe you would be justified in your opinion, but they are not, so perhaps your opinion is not justified.
Just sayin like.
An own goal and a deflected shot are hardly massive defensive errors, in fact it is personal errors that are costing the goals, not team or tactical errors.
Yes, you’re just saying like, Zzzz Zzzz Zzzz….
Grovehillwalluah, I certainly think most of Monk’s purchases are overrated, certainly Assombalonga is. I also think that some of last season’s players may be low on confidence following relegation. Karanka seemed traumatised by the experience, so maybe some of the players were also. A couple of wins on the bounce can make such a difference to a team’s confidence.
GWH
When the players decided that they knew better than AK, this blog decided that he should go and the players knew best.
So why? Now that we are getting our reward for our foolishness, are we saying that the bad apples must be chased for their lives?
Finding a manager who knows what he is doing is very difficult.
We found one, and fired him, why?
Because he only got us to a Wembley play off final first time up.
Automatic promotion second time up.
Were going to get relegated with the lowest goals conceded.
We still have the defence which achieved those feats(i know they cannot get into this team, after all we wish to concede more goals, it’s more interesting)
That defence is composed of players who are not old, are very experienced in the Champ. And no doubt will in due course be “sold” for a book of green shield stamps.
So we will go from making plenty of money from trading players, to our bad old habits, giving them away.
Do any of us really know the best eleven?
I just want the team to be trusted to do the job and left to get on with it. No more tinkering!
I still think there must be some dissatisfaction we don’t know about yet.
Yes I had Christie in my 10 game team to give attacking width.
As RR said, cover is a coaching issue.
I don’t think it is a coincidence that Ayala and George lost form.
They have both suffered injury and never really been given a run of games. George got few in the PL but he was trying to get up to speed against some of the best in the word and having to play AK,s system to boot.
I would trust them both to come good. Ayala is our only real CB offering a goal threat.
Oh and both know how to get promoted
Steve Gibson had every right to make that comment at the end of last season, and now some are saying it was a bit overboard putting pressure on a new manager.
So What?
The new manager whilst being well paid , new what was expected.
The Chairman backed him, more than any other we’ve had or any championship team has had .
He had a pick of a large pool of players ,if he did his homework,or the recruitment circus did.
Don’t tell me he hasn’t had time ,
If this goes on much longer, you will see a lot more empty seats,no atmosphere, players going through the motions, Steve Gibson must act , if things don’t change by mid November, if we are six points off a play off spot, you still have half a season to make it up.
No more Mr nice guy Steve , Put them all on notice now!
gt , but SG’s comments also give a great incentive for opposing teams to raise their games.
Getting rid of the Spanish clique had to be done but we were still left with some battle hardened warriors from the promotion campaign.
They have to a degree been overlooked. Too many new faces, some not needed and a manager prepared to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
It s not yet lost and I would give GM four games to turn it round.
Should also have got rid of our one remaining Spaniard too.
“We appoint a guy, build him up, expect him to reinvent the wheel and then, when the team falls back to its natural level, call him a failure.”
— Anthony “Paulista Park” McCarthy, around the time Mogga was sacked
“It is a truism in football that there are no Messiahs, just the unrealistic expectations of beleaguered fans.”
— Jared Browne
With such a negative outlook (Jared Brown) it’s a wonder any team gains promo nevermind wins the league they are in. Did my eyes and ears deceive me when we were last promoted and the pitch was bursting with jubilant supporters?
Just being positive like zzz zzzz (wots zzz zzz mean GHW?)
Spartak,
I believe your response to GHW to be disrespectful, and long way short of the high standards in both content and tone set on this blog by Redcar Red, Werdermouth, and a host of other contributors, some of whom, Werder suggested last week, are now being put off from contributing by precisely this kind of comment.
You have already apologised to GHW once recently for your patronising and dismissive comments Over the past few weeks you have referred to Dormo, one of the blog’s most long-standing and distinguished contributors as a “prat”; grossly insulted and drawn a justifiably affronted response from Martin Bellamy; accused Borophil of being a “lunatic”, when in fact you completely misunderstood the perceptive point he was making; told Nikeboro that he was “Wrong!!!” ; and made a series of niggling jibes about Andy R ‘ s contributions. Each one of these people has made important and thoughtful postings to this blog over many years. Each one of them is deserving, for their distinguished and literate contributions, to a respect and common courtesy that has been conspicuously lacking in too many of your own postings. All this is to say nothing of your past comments and insults directed at Ian and Nigel, both of whom were original contributors in the blog’s earliest days, and one of whom now rarely posts at all.
The miracle of this blog is that it has so far been an oasis of good sense, good humour, and mutual tolerance in an age of digital vituperation. It encourages and respects diverse views. Sustained by the voluntary hard work of those who believe in its values, its future is going to be dependant upon the good sense and integrity those who contribute to it. It is a future which I now fear may be in some doubt. Why should anyone willingly give of their time, commitment and intelligence if they are to be rewarded with insults?
GHW’s post makes an important point. It is the starting point for anyone who is contributing responsibly to this blog. That, however strong our views, we need to have an appropriate degree of humility. That we know very little. That even if we attend every game, we are merely witnessing the tip of the iceberg. We do not know what goes on in training, in the dressing room, in the boardroom, or of the many and multifarious relationships that exist within and between the different roles and levels of responsibility within the club. That doesn’t mean that we cannot express strong views, simply that we should all be aware of their contingency. At any point any one of us could turn out to be entirely mistaken.
GHW’s modest recognition that his views are all conjecture is a sentiment entirely in accord with the assumptions of all of the most sensible posts to the blog. His conclusion that “to call for the manager’s head without knowing all of the facts is a little bit premature in my opinion” is a moderate opinion moderately expressed. We are, after all, in danger of talking blithely, even dismissively, about someone losing their job.
To say that GHW’s “opinion is not justified” carries with it a degree of certainty that smacks of arrogance, particularly from one whom, I gather, resides many hundreds of miles away from the action, and who presumably has little or no first- hand experience of the matter under discussion. Under these circumstances a little humility, of the kind exemplified by GHW, would be particularly appropriate.
This is not a trivial issue. I believe the very future of this blog in anything like its current form is at stake in it.
…And please don’t say, “…and breathe”, your knee-jerk response to those who have taken exception to your approach in the past.
Pleased you got that off your chest, Len.
If I’m allowed a reply in defence I would suggest your post is motivated by your own sense of being slighted or the perception of such, therefore the length of post being overly long and riddled with ‘offences’ dating back some years.
At no point in time have I been naughty stepped by either Werner nor AV. If someone, I believe it was Nigel, brought to my attention I was man enough to apologise immediately. If someone slighted me I would accept their apology also immediately as I feel is right to do so.
To suggest that by stating someone is ‘wrong’ is the height of bad manners or a comment requiring censure to me is plain ludicrous. Can you imagine someone telling me I’m wrong and then I go into a tantrum? Of course not!
We are in the age of Aquarius when temperments are sensitive and volatile over the smallest slight. I believe at least on this blog we can address each others foibles as grown adults rather than bottle things up and then burst forth with hardly defencable accusations of wrong doing.
Just pleading in a court like manner like.
🙂
I don’t post often but do read the blog regularly and I have to say I completely agree with Len on this. I find spartak’s posts to be inane and as such don’t want to read them. This will probably be blocked by Werder – and it is his choice – but I would rather not have Spartak posting at all, particularly the diatribe about corbyn (or should that be diatripe). I am not a conservative supporter and grew up on a rough council estate in Middlesbrough, but as far as I can assess, corbyn being elected to run the country will not happen as long as I have a hole in my … I studied politics at university and most people recognise career politicians when they see them – from all parties.
Dalla
I respect your wish not to read my posts or others for that matter. I have a number of subjects that I too skip. Anything on Rugby League, references to Boro pre1960’s and any cricket mentions other than Yorks CC. However, I do not take offence to anyone wishing to post such comments as I believe in a degree of give and take and I also believe that diversity is to be encouraged.
Please note that when Werner called time on the topic of politics I immediately ceased to post such subject matter. Your own personal political affliations are of course your own right to hold as I believe are mine.
We all have opinions, some diverse. That’s what this forum is about. I’m sure sometimes people don’t agree with my opinions, as occasionally I might not agree with theirs. However where I would draw the line is when people give an opinion as a fact.
We’re very privileged that Werdermouth set up this forum, and grateful for Redcar Red’s match reports as well as the input from our band of bloggers, so I hope we continue to show tolerance and respect to everyone’s views without resorting to some of the inane and insulting remarks common to other forums I could mention.
Thanks for the mention, Len. I’m a bit of a lurker on this Blog because I don’t get to games very often, and see it as a window into a geographical world that means a lot to me, but from which I’m separated at the moment, having moved my family to the dark side of the Pennines back in the late 80s. I did take exception to Spartak’s assumptions about me. I’m a lifelong socialist but what really upset me was his stereotypical assumption that I must be a Tory because I was able to buy the business I’d worked for over 20 years. What I really like about this Blog is the absence of name calling and the excellent use of language. Long may it continue.
Simon
Regarding those two quotes ,
I don’t think we want a Messiah or re invent a wheel, but at the end of last season going into this, we were in a stronger position than the majority in this league, but that can easily be erased by wrong decisions ,or even worse not rectifying that problem immediately,
We are in a small window right now,where we can take advantage ,if we don’t , then as has happened before you can drift into the Ipswich, Wigan, Bolton, others , clubs of downwood spiral into apathy.
This just might be Steve Gibson’s last throw of the dice?
OK, I’ve been enjoying the unexpected return to summer today and have spent a long relaxing day finishing off some gardening tasks so have just been catching up on the blog and the issue that has arisen.
I must say Spartak if Len (who I think embodies the spirit of the blog) has felt strongly enough to make a post to remind you of the house rules then you should accept that it was done on behalf of those who he feels were not given the courtesy they should have expected – and take on board what he has said.
I did mention at the weekend that there is a good reason why we play the ball and not the man and that is to prevent posters feeling personally attacked for giving their view in good faith. I noted what Len said about a response that you made to Dormo, (which I missed when I was away) but clearly that is not an acceptable way to respond even if it was in response to a flippant remark.
I appreciate Spartak’s style may not be to everyone’s taste but I value his novel contributions and I accept he has apologised for some of the remarks made previously that Len mentioned – plus I’m happy he’s taken on board my views on political discussion too as that will always divide posters. Though it would be even better if when writing an over-enthusiastic post a little time was taken to self-regulate to avoid the need for an apology and also try to avoid telling others that their opinion is less valid than their own – which will never go down well no matter how it phrased.
Though Len is right to point out that it’s the standards by which this blog and its predecessor have operated that makes transgressions stand out and I don’t want posters to feel in anyway put off by unneeded remarks as it will lead to a diminished blog and deter some from visiting.
So I’d appreciate it if those who are prone to occasional dismissive remarks take more care in future and that we all endeavor to continue to make our arguments in a sensible and thoughtful manner.
Werder, ‘…..a diminished blog’, I’m afraid in my opinion we are there already.
Len – spot on as usual.
In what way?
A simple rule of thumb is that of DIY, measure twice and cut/drill once.
Same goes for posting, type, reread then post. Long before many on this blog, I had fellow bloggers posting abuse that was unbelievable. Once was when I mentioned the Graham Taylor article about the ten game test, it was, er, shall we say, man not ball that was played.
It went on for months and made it uncomfortable.
The Robbie Mustoe of the blog kept posting.
Having caught up on the blog, first off thanks to RR for the report and for Werder’s prelude. Insightful both.
To pick up on some of the “bickering”, we all have different ways of getting our views across and the written word can be very unforgiving, with nuances not always coming across. Harder to say something in a jokey way by way of text.
The beauty of this blog is the diversity of views and the wide ranging discussions and i for one, would want that to continue.
Hopefully we will be able to self regulate and neither take or give Offence.
Onto more pressing issues, what is to become of our season and why are we are where we are?
Only seen a few games, ticket purchased for Hull away but my take is a tad too much tinkering and players who are perhaps lacking confidence/ability. Maybe the constant changes don’t help but they are paid a lot to deliver the goods and do the basic stuff right.
GM has had enough time to sort it out and the concern is that there does not seem to be discernible improvements. Cardiff becomes another key game and i trust that it is not a repeat of a FA cup quarter final-.
What would i do if i were SG? Probably give it until End November although who else is there, if the players aren’t good enough? I have always wondered whether success is down to the players or the manager- perhaps with all the money they get now, the players are not that bothered to the same extent with win bonuses etc.
Whilst i want Boro to do well and win, the last few years have been hard and in some respects would prefer the days when there was loyalty, local players who actually cared.
UTB
I agree with everything you’ve said except for holding back his P45 until the end of November. IMHO the Monk (fish) has had his chips. We saw the signs last season & left it too late to change. Why are we making the same mistakes again ?
More importantly, why didn’t I get a mention in Ken’s poem ? 😢
Some months ago
I wrote a verse
About this forum,
So for what it’s worth
Who’s on this site?
Let’s make a start
With Clive Hurren
And Scot Braveheart.
There’s Forever Dormo
And Steely too
And not forgetting
Our friend Jarsue.
And not to mention
Our friend Old Billy
It must be said
Would seem quite silly.
Our foreign friends
All show their worth,
Mike Beveridge
And Peasepud in Perth.
With Werdermouth,
Boro Becky’s Dad,
And Powmill-Naemore
For them we’re glad.
There’s Pedro, Plato,
And Simon too
To share with us
Their points of view.
And Grovehillwallah,
Al in Bahrain,
It’s nice to hear
From them again.
The match reports
From Redcar Red
Are really good
It must be said.
Mark Bellamy,
Masterman (Len)
Must keep on blogging
Says old codger, Ken.
Cos we support
Our Boro team,
Though wins are scarce
So it would seem.
So score more goals
In this Autumn weather,
And for good or bad,
Let’s stick together.
this blog of ours is full of rhyme
and maturing like a good red wine
the like of which I’ve never seen
so lets all keep the comments clean
and if we cannot win the game
then all the staff must take the blame
and if promotion does not come
at least my friends we had some fun
I wrote this verse with good intention
But some folks names I failed to mention.
To put things right I think I will
Apologise to Ian Gill
One blogger with his ear to ground
Gives news and views to all around.
So now to finish off the job
Let’s raise a glass to Old Fat Bob.
Cheers Ken
Thanks Ken and may we hear lots more from you in the years to come.
I received a icy blast from Spartak last week, offence was taken at my comment on JC’s politics, I apologised and the apology was accepted. The political ping pong continued between us until I received a “yellow card” from Werder.
Quite rightly so in my opinion as we were completely off subject.
Having taken time to reflect I think politics should be off limits as it is too divisive.
You may as well invite Sunderland supporters in for an argument.
It is important to keep our emotions in check when posting as this blog is too valuable to lose.
Nice to see that fellow posters will step in when they think someone has crossed the line and we are lucky to have Werder adjudicate on these issues.
In future lets hope Werder can keep his cards in his pocket.
Well said great to read and typical of all on this blog
As an ex referee I used to pride myself on completing a game without getting cards out of my pocket
Mind my friends have said that this refereeing practise spread when getting money out of my pocket to pay for a round!
typical Bob, short arms, long pockets and last to the bar!
Gentlemen, Gentlemen and we all are, remember these wise words ‘ Raise your argument not your voice ‘
Quiet frankly I find this season refreshing after the rubbish we saw last season and if we can align a few things then we will be off to the races.
As an aside some of the topics discussed are lost on some of us out in the far flung corners of the world.
This forum is far superior to any other long may it survive !
(Thanks Ken for the mention )
UTB.
Not all gentlemen !
Remember LadyBoro and a few lurkers as well
Thanks for your comment OFB, are you throwing your hat in the ring for Werders job, Maybe you could be 4th official.
I couldn’t lace Werder’s boots!
He is doing a tremendous job on all fronts
Moving back on to football matters, it was interesting to read Downing talking about playing on the right rather than the left, plus he seemed to infer that Martin Braithwaite prefers to play on the left to allow him to cut inside.
He said: “I enjoy playing on the right and have done at a lot of clubs. Teams like to play opposite footed players on the wing, it’s a bit of a trend. Martin coming in likes to play on the left. I used to just stand on it (right foot) years ago but I’ve put a lot of work into it.”
What caught my attention though was how he said he’s put in a lot of work over the years to improve his right foot as when he first started his right leg was only for standing on.
I wonder how much optional work players put in after training or are encourage to put in by the coaching staff? It would seem a no-brainer to me that professional footballers either work on their weaknesses or try to improve their all round ability.
We have read in the past how players like Beckham practiced and practiced free kicks and their crossing to perfect it. I was amazed a few years back when I read an article about training at Rockcliffe on just how short the player’s day actually was (only around 90 minutes of actual organised training I seem to recall). It would make sense that the more you practiced something the better you should be – looking back at some of the poor quality execution of passing and shooting by some of the players, perhaps quite a few need to work on the main elements of their game.
Craig Johnson was a case in point of a pro improving his game
He always came back on an afternoon and had to plead with coaches and any spare goalkeeper to work with him
Bobby Murdoch helped him develop because he saw how dedicated he was
I saw this first hand when acting as a ref for the juniors
I remember reading a long time ago an article about the Wales centre forward Trevor Ford. Apparently his father coached him and made him practice barefooted on his right foot as a child until he had perfected shooting with his left. I’m sorry if none of you have heard of him but he did score 23 goals for his country in 38 appearances.
Too true, the old adage that practice makes perfect. Wasn’t it Gary Player who, after pitching in the hole from a greenside bunker and hearing a comment from a spectator saying that it had been a stroke of luck, replied “Funny that, the more I practice the luckier I become”.
Nice verse from Ken
Sorry that once again Werder has had to step in when things have got a bit heated.
I appreciate at times the Boro make your blood boil, so to say. However, Ian is quite correct….read what you have written before you post, never mind the typos.
This is a great blog with some very clever and articulate writers. Lets keep it that way, no sniping please. We want as many varied posters as possible, the more the better for it.
If I am being honest, one of the downsides of the last blog was the constant politics. Keepto the football, that’s bad enough at the moment. Hope for a change Saturday.
Well said
I used to distance myself from some of the political comments that used to be conducted by our previous Blogmeister
This is after all a football blog with a bit of crixxxx and other comments and views
Oh and a bit of poetry thrown in.
I hope the Boro make a stanza and we can wax lyrical after a poetic display on Saturday !
OFB
It’s a good maxim Bob, stepping clear of discussing politics and religion.
I’ll second that, so does that make it a Double Maxim ?🍺
Just about the only thing that could realistically improve this blog would be to cut out the occasional sniping, so I welcome many of the comments above.
On to the football, and the Gazette have posted an interesting article on the number of changes in team selection – http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/garry-monk-make-many-changes-13769823 – showing that only four sides have made fewer changes than us.
This is quite surprising and may counter the idea that we are somehow a less settled side, at least in terms of team selections. Perhaps, then, our ailments are not quite so straightforward and are maybe a mix of several factors. The question remains as to whether time will be the healer and if so, whether enough of it will remain to mount a promotion charge.
OF course some of the changes have been enforced by injuries to Braithwaite Gestede Leadbitter and suspension of Clayton
Very true, OFB. That will be the case for everyone though I’m sure.
Yes, Andy, I read AVs article, but to put it into perspective I think he should have included positional changes into his figures.
Fair point, Ken – though I think it might have been a very tricky task indeed for the journalists to not only put together the number of selections changes but also positional ones – which can also be subjective – for each team in the division.
Old Billy,
Just to lighten the comments a little, the sea food in Leigh on Sea was excellent. great fish and the shellfish were superb too. Thanks for the tip. Now I’m looking forward to going back for some cockles and and a beer or two.
UTB,
John
John
I haven’t had any cockles for such a long time…..
OFB
OFB,
Would there be vinegar and pepper on them!
UTB,
John
Might be a bit salty !
The short arms of OFB are surely a myth but my long departed dad told me of a dominoes four he played in at the Poverina many years ago. One of them never bought a pint but in the end they trapped him in to buying a round.
Ok, he said, you order them while I go to the toilet, after five minutes or so they got a bit concerned so went to the toilet. The window was wide open and the culprit had fled.
I hope that isn’t too controversial and off topic.
Werder’s comments about Stewie have been evident for some time. His right footed crosses are better than nearly all the right footed players we have.
The work he has put in enable him to go either side of the defender, that is great quality to have, the same as a rugby player able to step off either foot and a bowler threatening both edges of the bat.
Whether you rate him or not is another matter.
What is interesting is the number of stories of better players staying back to practise their skills.
Over the years I have worked very hard and can drink right or left handed, it makes no difference.
Mmmm ambidextrous. I suppose that could be very handy !
There was an ambidextrous boy at my school who’s party trick was to write his name simultaneously with both hands, but backwards with his left hand.
I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
I can’t quite put my finger on it
Werder. ‘in what way?’, a significant number of posters have disappeared in recent months or post less often, I don’t know why, but I can guess.
Speaking personally, it is diminished when I voice an opinion or another poster voices an opinion and a retort appears which is rude, condescending and inconsiderate. It is a common occurrence on here now, from one source in particular.
Such sniping takes away the fun of posting and so I suspect several posters have stopped, personally I’ve reduced my interaction with the blog because the fun has been taken out of it.
Such sniping is in fact a form of censorship, someone ‘shouts’ loudest and then snipes at responders who then walk away. That then shifts the entire tone of the blog.
I decided sometime ago to not read certain posters posts as a way of avoiding such issues, but actually it doesn’t work, its difficult to just read some posts and pass others by, doing so takes away the flow of the blog and the spontaneity.
I’m fully aware that I can’t change the behaviour of others but I can change my own, which sadly is what I have done, am doing. I believe others have done the same.
That’s my reasoning for saying the blog is diminished. To say we all have diverse opinion is missing the point entirely, its the personal stuff I object to. ‘Football is about debate’, is a quote I heard on Radio 5 this morning, that’s spot on. Debate is diminished when someone snipes at another’s opinion.
To my mind, Stewie had the best season of his career playing on the right for Aston Villa (with the right-footed Ashley Young on the left). It all depends what you want from your wide men, how that fits into your tactical plans and also the players around you.
With Christie being a very attacking right back who provides natural width, it makes perfect sense to me to have someone like Downing in front of him who may naturally drift inside to create space for Christie, whilst also offering some defensive, positional nous when Christie vacates the right back slot. Traore, on the other hand, may be more suited to having a more defensive fullback behind him.
I think, with fullbacks like Christie, Fabio and Friend, there is a strong case for playing three at the back and therefore not having to worry as much if a centre back has to go wide to cover but if we’re playing a back four including Christie, Downing is a sound choice for right wing in my opinion.
Stewie Downing obviously had a good game on Saturday, I wonder if he would have made the team if Traore hadn’t been a naughty boy?
I know he is a player who divides opinion and I’ve always been in the pro camp, although based on historical performance rather than anything he’s done over the last two years or so.
When Karanka left I thought Stewie might prosper under a new more attack minded manager but clearly Monk didn’t/doesn’t rate him.
Boro’s indifferent form to date worry’s me, we’re all sat here waiting for the team to kick on, the majority I think expecting it will, I’m not so sure. Monk seems to like young dynamic players, which I can understand to a point. But, maybe the balance isn’t right between youth and experience at the moment.
Getting Leadbitter back in central midfield has been a plus, I’d like to see Friend and Downing given a decent run of games in the team.
Currently we’re seven point off the top, if that stretches out to ten then I’ll be really concerned.
Boro drawing at Barnsley took some heat off Monk, but the pressure is building.
In Boro’s relegation season under Southgate I was surprised that he didn’t utilise Downing more on the right with Adam Johnson on the left.
Throughout most of his international career Tom Finney, a natural right winger, was forced to play on the left wing when Stanley Matthews was selected.
Nigel
I recognise your concerns but please keep posting, not to do so means the SHOUTING has worked.
All views are welcome on here as long as they are views, people can disagree and we can join in and debate the issue.
Andy R
Stewie on the left worked at Villa because Ashley Young can go both sides of the full back as well. The key is they could both go to the byeline, stretch defences and were quick enough to cover and track back.
He did well at West Ham because they played on the break and he was the ‘quarterback’ feeding balls in to channels and not as some may think a number 10 in the style of Gaston.
Putting Barry Robson on the right flank was a huge waste because he wasn’t quick enough to get down the line and he wanted to go in to the middle to influence the game. Grant or Clayts would be less useful on the left flank for the same reasons.
We can all debate those intelligent, well conceived sentances and agree with me.
I agree with that, Nigel.
My speculative theory is that Monk was given the remit of not only promotion but of playing with pace and flair too, and that that has made him shy away from players for whom pace isn’t one of their key attributes. That might explain why Downing and perhaps also Bamford haven’t featured as much as many of us think they should have.
If that is the case then I think it is a flawed strategy. We know that, for now at least, many other sides consider a point against Boro as a good point, particularly at the Riverside, and that they will be happy to play defensively. With a deep defensive line to break through, guile is far more important than pace – there isn’t the space to make pace decisive.
Pace is what we needed a lot more of last season when we were playing the underdog role. Not so now. We need to be able to cut through teams with slick passing and movement.
With that in mind, the team I would go for is (4231):
Randolph
Christie Ayala Gibson Friend
Clayton Leadbitter
Downing Bamford Braithwaite
Assombalonga
Of course, if you start slowly, are disorganised and miss a hatful of chances then it really doesn’t matter what team you put out.
Same team exactly that I proposed yesterday.
We can’t all be wrong
AndyR
I would agree with that line up but as you say tempo is all important. Attitude helps as well.
And of course organisation along with kicking the round thing in to that net thingie.
Ian, I wrote my verse after midnight this morning, and later realised I’d missed out a couple of regular contributors to this forum, so later tried to rectify that but unfortunately posted it immediately after the original posting. So in case you missed it I’ll repeat part of it here:-
I wrote this verse with good intention
But some folk’s names I failed to mention.
To put things right I think I will
Apologise to Ian Gill.
No snub intended.
Thank you for taking the trouble to write a whole verse for me, old world courtesy is still alive and well.
🙂
Jarsue
Glad you enjoyed the fish
It’s time Boro came out of their shell. I would like to sea them scale the league rather than trawling in mid table.
We should be battering the minnows. It’s seems the chips are down and Leeds doing well rubs salt in the wounds. Time for us to sink or swim. Boro may flounder but I will still be hooked.
Cod almighty !
You know your plaice !
Monk(fish) needs to mullet over and do some fine tuna-ing if we’re to hit the net. For goodness-hake, some-fins got to change or eel get smoked.
Fintastic!
OFB,
Maybe it was monkfish…
UTB,
John
Well, I’ll beef hooked 😃
I must say I was impressed by Newcastle United on Sunday, although maybe that’s not what bloggers on this forum want to hear. I admit I didn’t see the match live, but after what I saw on MOTD2 I think the Magpies will finish in the top half of the league. They are showing more attacking commitment (19 attempts at goal) than Boro showed in most of their away matches last season. Overall it looked like a good match, the type that neutrals enjoy.
Of course they have a good tactical manager and good attacking midfielder in Shelvey who Mowbray tried to sign on loan from Liverpool four years ago. The talk preseason was that Benitez was unhappy with the finance promised (we all know why now with Ashley putting the club up for sale), and might walk, but he seems to have put a good team together on a limited budget for a Premier League club.
Now if Boro gets its act together, gets promoted, and buys well afterwards, we may well be seeing fascinating derbies from next season and beyond.
It’s lme way to fillet the blog !
I’d almost forgotten about Bamford, a three with him, Braithwaite and Downing behind Assombalonga seems good to me, but it doesn’t seem to fit Monk’s perceived desire for pacey strikers. Although of course a passed ball moves much faster than any striker can run.
Nigel
The pace would ideally come from the full backs
Bamford an Downing to provide the guile.
That’s the way I see it.
It hadd ockered to me that something fishy is going on.
So while we’re on the subject of fish, name one that starts & finishes with the letter ‘K’.
Kirklevington haddock
Very very close Old Billy. The answer is Kilmarnock, which is a small place (plaice 🐟) in Scotland.
Now is the winter of Leicester’s discontent.
How shalt the club hope for mercy, rendering none?
As previously posted, please can someone enlighten me as to what’s Leicester has got to do with our plight?
🔴 I didn’t allow the previous comment because I thought the tone lacked respect even though you used the classic phrase ‘with all due respect’ and you used ‘we’ when you meant ‘I’ – not sure what your problem is with someone not being allowed to make a comment on a general football story, but you’ve been on the approve list for a while now because you’ve previously posted derogatory remarks at other comments of Simon’s – so if you want to come off it then I suggest you stop doing so – werdermouth
It seems that the talk of respect on this Blog has passed some people by.
For the life of me, I can’t see what’s wrong with discussing the sacking of a manager on here. It surely resonates with our own position and worries over our own manager’s position.
Nigel
Sheringham was quick off the mark in his head, Bamford has the same skill.
Watching city at their best was an object lesson in the ball doing the work, de Bruyne gave a master class in passing but they were made by clever movement. They don’t have time to look up and pass to a player, they pass to where a player should be. arriving.
The best we have had in recent years were the pairing of Tomlin and Bamford.
Though I still believe on the whole there aren’t that many comments that are posted on Diasboro that are intended to cause offense to other posters. We’ve had over 14,500 comments made and I think I’ve probably only found the need to probably censor around 10-20 in that time.
Sorry Nigel that you’ve felt that the blog has no longer become fun for you to read and participate – so I take on board what you have said in your earlier post. I can’t really speculate if other ‘missing’ posters have taken a similar view but I think one of the issues mentioned to me was too much staying onto some non-footballing topics, particularly politics.
So in my unenviable role as moderator (which is not a role I have an awful lot of time to undertake given my somewhat hectic schedule) the following is in response to specific issues raised by Nigel, Len and others with regard to some comments made, with particular reference to some by Spartak. I try to keep an eye on what is posted but there are times when I’m just not able to read every comment.
I’m not going to talk around the subject by referring to certain posters as clearly it was meant that several posters have found some of Spartak’s responses were inappropriate and felt they were out of order. I was aware of the ‘nonsense’ remark to Nigel a while back and by the time I read the posts you both had resolved the matter so I didn’t feel the need to intervene.
However, in view of some posters expressing their view that some of Spartak’s comments have over-stepped the mark I decided to undertake a quick review of his last 100 posts (Incidentally, Spartak has made just over 1,000 comments on Diasboro) to get an feel of what we’re talking about. Of those 100, perhaps 6 would be clearly deemed under house rules at playing the man and not the ball, some of those have already been apologised for.
I think half of those six are bad etiquette, telling a poster they are ‘wrong’ (or even shouting wrong!!!) for having a different opinion to their own is unnecessary and simply them being subjective towards their own view. If we are generally debating and speculating then it’s impossible to say who is right or wrong in the argument being made.
Clearly telling another poster ‘Don’t be a prat’ is out of order and I would have censored that if I’d spotted it (I was away when it was posted so missed it). Also telling someone to ‘Breath in, Breath out’ when they they showed their annoyance at being told they are wrong does sound quite patronising even if it may have been intended as a humorous riposte. Another comment was also in the patronising category and that was since apologised for.
OK, I only put posters on the approve list when they’ve posted serious breaches (usually late at night) or have made a continuous series of posts that I’ve deemed unacceptable. I would just ask Spartak to take more care when getting a little over-enthusiastic with some of his arguments – I know he says he doesn’t get offended himself but there is a balance needed for those who are not interested in participating in that kind of debate.
In general, Spartak has usually taken on board what has been suggested and I’m going to give him the benefit that he wasn’t intending to necessarily cause offence – even if it did. Whether his style is to everyone’s taste or not is a matter of personal judgement – though I don’t think a blog should be too restrictive on how people choose to express their views as long as they stick to the rule of playing the ball.
I think we are all different with different personalities and as others have said the written word is missing some of the non-verbal cues and one person’s humorous retort is another’s personal remark. So I hope I’ve made it clear what I’m hoping and expecting in order that everyone is able to participate and make their personal contributions in good faith.
Thanks in advance.
Werder,
A good, clear post if I may say so. I think that what we all have to remember is that Spartak is a maverick and all the better for it.
A bit like Diasboro’s own version Boris Johnson. That was a joke by the way. OK I’ll go and walk the two jack Russell’s now, where’s me coat! Don’t worry it’ll be a long walk.
UTB,
John
Careful John, I can see a reference to the P word
The occasional bit of fun, banter, jokes, reminiscing, history, poetry, play on words, I find refreshing as long at it is not studs up.
It breaks up the seriousness of team selections, blame game, tactics and formations and adds to the quality of the blog.
I’d like to see us ,try a different formation, based on the types of players we have.
There is no need at all for us to be worried about who we play in this division ,it is poor.
I think we should try a 4312 ,
Randolph
Christie , Shotton Gibson Friend
Leadbitter Clayton Forshaw
Braithwaite
Bamford Osombolongo
What! You might say.
My reasoning ,is two overlapping fullbacks ,can be utilised by by having midfielders who can retain possession, these three can also defend in their own rights, I pick Shotton because he is very quick and can cover for Christie,
Braithwaite looks like he has a very quick football brain and sees things early .
Play Bamford up the middle ,because he is better when the ball is played into him ,and can hold it or knock it off.
Ossombolongo to look at getting open around the box.
I see Stewy ,Traore, Baker, the like coming off the bench in situations when the opposition become tired or in obvious needs.
Just to add, not for one game, try it for five,
GT
Looks good on paper. But with the three midfielders being the defensive, pass back type, you would need the full backs playing as permanent wingers in order to supply the forwards.
Just my thoughts.
Like I said in my previous post, I don’t contribute often but do read regularly. I have to say that I have found this site to be a joy to read and have been enlightened and informed on so many issues from match previews from Werder (and the unbelievable amount of work put in), match reports from the excellent RR, Si’s talking points (waiting for another!) and the many varied contributions from the likes of OFB, Len, our overseas contingent, Ian Gill and of course the great reminiscent postings on Ken. If I have missed anyone out then sorry.
I do however agree with Nigel that the acerbity of the comments of spartak put me off even logging on to read the blog.
🔴 Thanks for your appreciative comments on the blog and whilst I understand you feel strongly about some of the comments, I’ve decided out of consistency to edit the last bit out in the interests of encouraging a spirit of not aiming personal remarks at individuals – werdermouth
Fair do’s
Werder – Just to say, I think you do a fantastic job running the blog, above and beyond the call of duty.
Enjoy a beer tonight!!
Thanks Nigel, I did enjoy a beer as I definitely needed it!
Lads and lasses
Some sports now give everyone a medal just for participating. Some now don’t even keep score, so as not to offend or hurt others feelings. Some may agree with this position, and that’s ok, I come from a different era, and from an early age understood there were people more talented than me in many areas, not just sports.
I’ve played for teams that have won 9 – 0 and lost 9 – 0. So what?
I just hope we don’t turn this blog into a vanilla, expo of Boro achievements. Not allowed to argue a point, disagree on formations, tactics, appointments, results. What would be left with?
This piling on Spartak is not in my opinion fair, yes he does like to wind things up and does annoy some with his constant reference to politics, why? I don’t know, the rest of us have seen the consequences of that, and it doesn’t end well.
I think what I’m saying is, back to Football, and fixing our glorious hero’s problems.
UTB
🔴 I think you misunderstood the point being made – at no time has it remotely been suggested that anyone is not allowed to as you say “argue a point, disagree on formations, tactics, appointments, results” – this is what the blog exists for and I think I’ve tried to be fair in addressing the issue. Plus I’ve even edited a few typos out your post – werdermouth
Well said Werder, now it is time to move on to the next 14,500 posts.
We should all exercise care, there are not the nuances available in the spoken word and more so visually when you type.
On to football and Shakespeare has left Leicester and not by mutual consent.
Stunning news, Pole Dancing is to be made an observer sport at the Olympics with a few to becoming an Olympic competition!
Bring it on.
Dallas
Sorry to hear that you are upset by one of our contributors, but you should understand that we try to avoid banning anyone.
This blog is for boro supporters, that is the qualification. No other is needed.
We do not swear, we do not use vulgar words, particularly of a sexual nature.
When we are deep into a hot topic (as the present attempt at management) then obviously some are for one point of view, and some are for another.
It’s called a blog, and it is great fun and very enjoyable.
It’s important to remember that no matter how awful a player or manager is, someone out there thinks that he is wonderful, he can take the team down or do anything he likes and still someone will still be thinking that he was missunderstood and should have been managing Manchester United rather than boro .
Just had time to catch up on the posts since the Barnsley game and my, what a to do and a bluster and a kerfuffle. I suppose all there is to say about it all is that it’s just not cricket 😉
Pole dancing at the Olympics- whatever next! Never a sport and mildly degrading in my view – how on earth will they judge that one – who can stay on the longest perhaps?
A bit surprised st Leicester although there is no loyalty anymore in football.
What I’ve found I retesting in everyone’s suggestions for a starting XI is that no one had picked Fry (sorry to anyone if I missed that you did!!). I felt he was one of the more consistent performers before being dropped for failing to cover adequately for someone else’s (more experienced) mistake.
I like the idea of Braithwaite being played in the middle linking midfield to attack and giving him free rein to move left/right and straight through to Assombalonga up front.
Bamford on the right and one of Downing or Fabio on the left.. with freedom to switch around left to right, or with Braithwaite coming out of the middle. Perm any two from three (Clayton, Leadbetter and Howson). Christie, Gibson And Friend joining Fry in the back four.
Oh yes, and get Agnew in as assistant straight away. Monk needs the help and Agnew had a tremendous track record as a number 2. Most great managers are out great because they have the right man (sorry, person) at their side. Even old big ‘ead himself struggled without Taylor.
PS. I forgot to commend Werder and RR for the pre and post match leaders and to the continuing poetic license the Ken brings to the threads and, while I’m at it to everyone who writes so eruditely especially on tactical and team management issues. As others have said, there is so much to learn from reading in here. So thank you to everyone and please please don’t be dissuaded from posting your thoughts, I know I am not alone in appreciating everyone’s opinions, [irony alert] no matter how wrong they are 🙄
Well said Powmill I echo those sentiments
Given that Leicester’s four defeats have come against arguably the four strongest teams In the prem to sack him now after just a few games of the season seems utter madness.
Do the Leicester Board think another manager would have done better with the same set of fixtures?
Powmill – Fry has put in some excellent performances this season, but he’s young and inexperienced, time for him to have a break I think. Its a long hard slog of a season and there are some tough old pros playing in the championship.
Fry will be back stronger and better, he’s on the road to being a class act.
Hi Nigel
I hope that you are right that he will comeback stronger. But there is also the chance that by interrupting his development at the level he has now demonstrated he is fully capable, his self belief may have taken a dent that will stay with him long into his future. He has just been given the lesson that it doesn’t matter how good and consistent you have been, you will be dropped in favour of someone clearly not properly match fit and definitely no where near the peak of his ability.
Footballers want to play. If they are good enough and the best you have in that position they should play regardless of their age.
How old do you suppose Marcus Rashford is… Manchester Utd regular and current England international?
He’s exactly 10 months younger than Fry. He hasn’t developed by having been farmed out to some Championship team, or even the reserves, but by being given an extended run in a leading premiership team based on his performance.
I suppose you could draw a comparison to AK. Shakespeare seemed to get the job in the first place with a little bit of help from player power.
I reckon Ranieri could be forgiven for chuckling into his cappuccino.
Evening all. Long time lurker, (too) occasional poster, always an admirer of you all. Just thought I would add my 0.02 to the debate on posting – many moons ago, I was an administrator on a messageboard dedicated to Championship Manager, a really nice community that on the whole was a refuge for the more ‘mature-minded’ and ‘politer’ fan than the usual rage of internet-enabled trolling you could find anywhere. Now and then we’d get someone who posted a bit differently to the norm – more abrasive, a bit harsher in the way they expressed themselves. I didn’t especially like it when this happened, but I think there was a lesson for me there also in the sense that behind the rhetoric these people had perfectly valid opinions and I just needed a bit more patience as well as they had to appreciate others’ points of view and get in with the general atmosphere, I guess.
Not a comment or a criticism concerning anyone here, just signs from my own experiences that I recognised here while reading all this in the early hours (raging stomach bug, not pretty)… Building a community online is never easy – it’s always open to the excesses of the internet, but it’s worth persevering with, and for what it’s worth for you guys to survive and even thrive given what’s happened is no mean feat.
As for the current MFC situation, I write a monthly column for Fly me to the Moon and was struggling this month, horrible risks of repeating myself after so many seasons that promise so much and threaten to deliver so little, so I kind of sidestepped the issue over the course of 900 words, more a treatise on existential despair, which for me just about covers the experience of supporting this ridiculous, hubristic football club!
Thanks for posting Mike, an interesting perspective and I think the Diasboro community in its current incarnation continues to remain open to all – though it’s always a two-way dynamic between the individual and the collective where hopefully any occasional tensions help to reinforce the value of what has been created – which can’t just be taken for granted as everyone plays a part in its success.
It’s an interesting viewpoint (that we have probably now taken for granted ) that we seamlessly transferred from the old blog to Diasboro and have kept a high standard of match reporting, pre match analysis and diverse analysis.
Some of the posts make me reflective, others make me laugh out loud but above all the collective is for the support of our football team.
Long Live Diasboro !
OFB
Nigel, I echo your sentiments regarding the sacking of Craig Shakespeare. There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with the running of the club, be it player power or delusions of grandeur by the board. I think most neutral football fans rejoiced when Leicester City won the Premier League two years ago, and most were charmed by Claudio Ranieri.
All right, things weren’t going well for the team in the first half of last season in the league, yet somehow the players seemed to raise their game in Europe, and as soon as Shakespeare was appointed, their league form matched their European form utilising the same players. I ask myself how a manager who has coached a team to win the Premier League one year against all the odds, can become a bad manager the next year? Internal politics?
Nobody expected Leicester to win the league the next season, but suddenly they were fighting relegation, yet Shakespeare turned things round in his first game in charge. The players were happy to receive all the adulation as BBC team of the year in December, but seemed to have lost faith in Ranieri. As Gary Linaker said at the time the Leicester board should have built a statue of Ranieri, not sack him. Player power then, and player power now?
History seems to be repeating itself here; I believe the players are now believing their own hype in thinking they are super stars. I understand now that the club are seeking a higher profile manager than the one to whom it awarded a three year contract earlier this year. So maybe the club is also believing its own hype now, assuming it to be a major force in England.
I agree that Leicester’s opening fixtures have been against some of the elite teams in England, so to sack the current manager, and to seek for a more higher profile manager confirms to me that the board class themselves as one of that elite. Delusions of grandeur? I concur, Nigel, utter madness.
Ken, the decision to sack Shakespeare may not be madness at all. It could be the the Board/owners of the club have taken the view that the results this season have been poor and the current league position is unacceptable. They don’t consider the difficulty or otherwise of the fixtures played because they expect better from the team regardless.
As the manager is responsible for results, they have further taken the view that Shakespeare needs to be replaced if results are going to improve and they have decided to do it now early in the season so that the incoming manager has time to try to get the team up the table. Is this madness? Some might say it is an objective and sensible decision taken in the best interests of the club.
Maybe if the MFC management had acted earlier last season we could still be in the Premier League. Maybe not but at least early action would have opened up that possibility.
I for one hope that the MFC Board/owner have learned from last season and, if results this season don’t improve markedly in the next few weeks, take early action in removing Monk to give the incoming manager time to at least have a shot at automatic promotion/playoffs. Not acting will make it certain that we will be in the Championship again next season.
My appraisal of Leicester’s situation is that they finished level on points with Stoke City last season. Stoke had a dreadful start last season accumulating only 3 points from their first 7 matches, but stuck with Mark Hughes and their decision was vindicated. Considering that only this year Leicester gave Shakespeare a 3 year contract, in my opinion they have acted hastily in sacking him so early in the season.
This season Leicester have lost away to Arsenal and Manchester United, two teams with 100% home records, and lost at home to both Chelsea and Liverpool, both results not really surprising. They now have a home game with Everton sandwiched between away matches at Swansea and Stoke, three matches they might have been expected to gain 5/7 points with Shakespeare in charge. They now face the prospect of playing at least one of these matches without a manager which I find risky unless they already have the anticipated high profile replacement signed and delivered, Ancholetti possibly.
I would have thought it might have been more prudent to wait until the next international break before making such a rash decision if deemed necessary, and I would guess that Gary Linaker and most of the Leicester fans would form the same opinion. Maybe my use of the word “madness” is a little strong, but panic certainly springs to mind.
Last season it was interesting to hear the stats post the sacking of Ranieri by Leicester. They won the game afterwards but ran 15% greater distance, they 20% more runs. That smacks of some element of fault in the players.
Moving on to us, I tend to think the centre halves should play close together, this season, quite a few times the centre halves have been split with Clayton specifically dropping back.
Would we be better served by the centre backs staying home and letting midfielders and wide players covering?
Just a passing thought.
Ian, I believe that a large part of our problem, singular mistakes aside, is that our midfield has not been good enough. Still passing side to side and back. Very little forward play and all too slow from them. I also think Clayton has not performed as well as some are saying with virtually no creativity.
There has also been a ongoing lack of covering the full backs, all who are not the best defenders.
Pace and power up front supplemented by metronomic passing from Randolph to Ben to …………………….
Ken and Nigel – I agree here. Its all about the money now. Average players believe their own hype along the lines of “if some club has paid a squillion quid for me, I must be good”. Trouble is they are not.
Even at lower levels it is the same, look at what Boro have paid for players that are probably not premiership class. Maybe they will develop but a club has to spend silly money to buy success.
Part of me doesn’t want that and preferred the days when we were a yo yo club and excursions into the top flight were just that.
To be competitive now involves a stupid amount of money and i still remain unconvinced that SG has the inclination to spend what is required. I am not sure I would to be fair!
Apologies for typing, hope it makes sense, big fingers and small phone keyboard does not go together!
🔴 I’ve tidied it up for you – werdermouth
Thanks Wedermouth
I’m presently travelling and working in Werder’s neck of the woods catching up on all the posts via my phone so apologies in advance for stubby finger syndrome.
Its important that as we keep saying play the ball not the man but it needs to be a contact sport otherwise the entertainment value becomes diminished. I don’t always agree with Spartak because some of his posts come from somewhere way beyond the Carpathians but I find myself smiling more than growling at them. Blunt, to the point, tactless and feckless at times but provocative and reaction causing.
Nobody should feel uncomfortable about posting because its the debate and differences of opinion that make a blog readable. I have skin like a Rhino and will argue and stand my ground but I accept and understand there are others more sensitive than myself and like the advent of e-mails we have to learn to measure twice and cut once as Ian said.
In the past I know that I have upset Nigel but genuinely did not intend to or indeed felt that I was at the time other than having differing views. I apologised at the time when he made it known and indeed apologise to anyone else who may feel aggrieved or under appreciated. Things said in banter is just that, a bit of a wind up but in print depending on the context and frame of mind of the reader it can be far more cutting. I don’t think Spartak intends the insensitivity that is being laid at his door but that doesn’t change the emotion felt by the receiver. I think he just types as he speaks and suspect ghat his skin due to his life experiences is even thicker than mine.
I make a point of never sending an email when I’m full of fury and instead type it and then edit it 12 hours later usually toned down. We need to be mindful that there are a vast range of personalities and backgrounds on here from the university of life to accomplished scholars and everything in between. Spartak is a wind up merchant a bit of the archetypal urine extractor no doubt if we were all sat in a local drinking establishment. See it and him and indeed all of us for what we all are at heart Diasboro, warts and all. Don’t take any of it too seriously and try to desensitise posts that may be interpreted as “blunt”.
A plea to all of you please keep posting because without debate and differences of opinion the blog will wither on the vine. We need “Foamees” and “Realists” etc from time to time to add some spice to the dish, just go easy on the chillies, peppers and curry powders not everyone enjoys a Vindaloo, there’s nothing wrong with a good Korma.
Footnote: Before anyone takes issue with the “Foamee and Realist” comment, as a died in the wool “Realist” Allan’s insinuation in an earlier post about me wearing “Rose tints” will haunt me for the rest of my days, the shame of it 🙂
Crikey, I must be going blind or something, but I didn’t see your post on here before typing mine, below. I had spent some time watching 2 video seminars on a topic I won’t bore you with, after having read the more recent posts above. I then typed in mine without reading yours. Didn’t mean to repeat……but, what the heck…..!
Well said RR I enjoy the posts from Spartak too.
As you say we need to have diverse comments and posts from all our bloggers.
OFB
In my view
1. All opinions about MFC can be put forward on this Blog.
2. However it should be possible to argue a case without insulting people who put forward a contrary view, and bad language is not appropriate (it is a public forum, let us remember, and may be read by people of all ages and sensibilities).
3. To use two phrases I have seen on these pages recently: to put forward a sensible argument for one position as opposed to another may be seen as “playing the ball” (legitimate) but to abuse or insult others for their views may be seen as “playing the man”- which, to continue the analogy, should be seen as a foul.
4. Having said which, and whilst gentlemanly discourse is much appreciated, we should not be so thin skinned as to take offence at every slight incursion – again, to continue the analogy further, not every breach of the rules should be a yellow card offence. Some of us are old enough, I hesitate to say ugly enough, to get up, dust ourselves down, and get on with the game.
5. In these days of gender fluidity it goes without saying that ladylike discourse is also welcome, and discourse from those who do not accept that life is simply a binary option.
6. This is primarily a football Blog, and particularly a Boro Blog (hence its name). But there is no reason why occasional detours might not be taken. We should, I think, bear in mind that there is a close season, and there are (too many) international breaks. In those barren periods, when football news about our club seems as rare as hens’ teeth, and people are feeling withdrawal symptoms, some posts about cricket (especially Yorkshire CCC), matters of interest to Teesside and its surrounding area, and even some political debates may be appropriate. I remember much discussion about Brexit – was that so long ago as to be on Untypical Boro rather than here? – but I think that was in the summer when there was no Boro football at all. That seemed OK to me. But we remain primarily contributors to a BORO Football Blog.
7. We should remember it is in the nature of these things that many people read the posts but do NOT contribute, and we are all happy to see the occasional Lurker join in the conversation (like Dalla and Mike above, though I seem to recognise the latter’s avatar, so I may remember some of his earlier posts even if they are not regular). We don’t want to put them off, do we?
8. We should accept that results, goals, points, league positions, promotions, relegations and pieces of silverware won are facts. But whether player X would have played better than player Y if he’d been selected, or would have scored more goals, or that A knows more more about tactics than B, are all examples of opinion. And I reserve the right to express my (wrong) opinion as much as the next person might express his contrary view. And for those hypothetical matters – “if we’d only signed XX rather than YY we’d have stayed up” etc – there is no view which can be proved either way.
9. I echo the views expressed already that we should be grateful for those whose hard work and generous expenditure of time has made this Blog possible. Without them we would not be able to continue the conversation and that would be a pity.
10. I should post more but occasionally the rest of my life intervenes.
11. Bring on Cardiff and let’s hope for a better Boro performance than we have seen in recent weeks. Of course it always seems, as with Untypical Boro, that if we perform well there will be quite a few posts, but if we perform badly and lose, there will be an avalanche. That might be the nature of a Blog. Bed calls…….
FD
How dare you let your life intervene, where are your Diasboro priorities?
Great post apart from that though. 🙂
Superb, FD.
I know, but Diasboro has become addictive. Hope I don’t fail a drug test because of it.
Never heard of the drug
Diasapan???
Or even Diasafan?
Powmil
Regarding Fry, he is a good player and hopefully he will improve.
He is already playing first team so I dont consider him to be one for the future, he is an essential part of the squad and without him we would have to buy a replacement.
However, I would play Ayala before Fry for the following reasons.
I think he is a better player
He offers a goal threat
He can be very consistent (when not injured)
The team need to get back to basics
The defence need to get back to basics
He had a great partnership with Gibbo in promotion season
He has more experience
Fry is good cover and I would play him before Shotton when required, its a long season.
As for Rashford, as I remember he did well for the Man U juniors and got a lucky break in the first team due to injuries. He has taken his chance well but is still not nailed on to start every week, he does his fair share of bench warming, just like Fry really.
self checking my last comment
Reasonable argument – tick
Opposing view – tick
Boro related – tick
No P word – tick
No C word – tick
Played the ball – tick
Is everyone OK with sarcasm?
Spartak, are you in exile?
I personally welcome a strong point of view as long as it is within the rules.
It can make for exiting banter.
An olive branch anyone?
should have read “exciting” – tick
Ken at 12:18 a.m. on the subject of Shakespeare at Leicester. I agree that “panic” sums up the decision to sack him.
In the past SG had been lauded widely by the pundits and the fan base alike for the forbearance he had shown with his managers. Not only is this fair, but as Ken’s example of Stoke with Hughes demonstrates, you have to take s longer term view if you want success.
Look at the bar codes. They didn’t part company with Benitez who was such an ‘abject failure’ that they got relegated and then we t on to have an uninspiring start in the Championship. Look what he is doing with them now.
Even the great and the good at ManU can definitely demonstrate how knee jerk reactions do not bring immediate success. They failed to give Moyes a chance, replaced him with a name (van Gaal) who struggled even worse than had Moyes, but given a tad longer, before selling their soul to the devil….and even the special one took some time to see his special way begin to get the results.
And why are we spending so much time debating the whys and wherefores of some other team’s manager? Because it has direct relevance to the Boro now. For me, talk of replacing Monk now is premature.
Powmill, it is of course possible that the decision to sack Shakespeare at Leicester is the result of panic.
It is also possible (and in my personal view more likely) that the Board at Leicester has reviewed the current situation, come to the conclusion that it doesn’t like what it sees, doesn’t believe that Shakespeare can improve the position and therefore taken a management decision to sack him now to give the new manager time to fix the problem this season.
Football is a business these days and it is perfectly right and proper for the Board of a business to take a decision to change the management as soon as they believe that the management is not doing a good enough job. The “wait and see if the position improves” approach is an abrogation of the responsibility of a Board to act promptly based on their view of the best interests of the business, in this case Leicester City football club.
I sometimes wish that the Board of MFC would take the same approach!
Of course that may be right Boroexile. We’ll never know for certain what was the motivation. But a decision taken in the best interests of (and I’ve no reason to doubt that) can still be viewed as panic. I think it could be argued that sometimes the speed at which such decisions are made can be considered an abrogation of duty, by giving insufficient weight of consideration to the longer term. Decisions taken for short term advantage very often lead to long term demise in many walks of life, and football management is no different in that.
Bottom line is maybe quite simply Damned if you do [take action] or damned if you don’t!
Boroexile
So nice to see your view of the failing manager syndrome.
Any board that says “he must have two seasons just to prove that we are professionals at running a club” is, by definition, treating the supporters with contempt.
We will not even discuss their even worse habit of letting the hapless manager have the first dozen matches of a third season, before swinging the axe.
I love the talk of his rebuilding the team.
Anyone taking over this team was nailed on to finish in the top three.
Very successful in the Champ.
Coming down with very few goals conceded.
The entire back five still young and with an added season in the Prem.
Lots of very saleable players, with eager buyers.
Never turned over by the giants.
On memory alone, Arsenal, man city, man utd, Chelsea, all dodgy wins or draws (diving seems to be the preferred method of turning things round.
Also I remember that Alex Ferguson was reportedly one game from being sacked by Man Utd in the first few years of his tenure.
Dormo
Brilliant post,
Dormo, the voice of reason.
Totally agree with Gt about RRs post and will also say a great post from FD.
Sums it all up and long may this blog continue.
When i hang up my working boots, i will be able to put on my playing boots (old fashioned Gola specials) and contribute more.
I agree that the midfield is not working as it should but would add that defensively we have gone backwards. Maybe as GM wants a more attacking mindset which is fine for entertainment and gets my vote. However, the caveat is that conceding silly early goals makes the job harder for the rest of the match. Factor in strikers that can have off days and there is a recipe for disaster. Probably explains why we are where are and it is what it is!
Anyway UTB and UTB (up the Blog!
Have the Gazette football reporters now dropped the “Tripe Supper” title from their weekly podcast discussions? I recently stated that the story of a tripe supper in the Talbot Hotel being the point when Middlesbrough FC was established as being pure fiction, and said I would be surprised if AV wasn’t aware of that.
In the first place it seemed odd to call the Gazette reporters weekly podcast the “Tripe Supper” based on an uncorroborated rumour, but strange now to have suddenly dropped the title when it had been known for 20 years or more that the birth of Middlesbrough FC evolved from a meeting of members of Middlesbrough Cricket Club later in the year at a different location.
Maybe it is felt that the introduction of the podcast “What a load of tripe” gives the wrong impression about MFC. Who knows?
As far as I know, Ken, the Tripe Supper title remains, but sometimes the Gazette drop the title for special podcasts, such as when they ran the interview with Matthew Bates recently.
Personally I’d miss it if the heavy Teesside accent intoning ‘what a load of old tripe’ was dropped, a bit like I miss the former MSS podcast (now just called The Boro) getting rid of The Power Game.
Mike
The title “Tripe supper” is perfectly fitting for any feature on any long lived football club.
The entire adventure of league football was started in Victorian times by largely working class populations.
Their natural venue for the meeting would have been the local pub, with a bit of food laid on.
From that it is a short step to some humourist to “remember” that the food that night was “a tripe supper”.
Our founding story is identical with that of many many clubs.
Just as a downer, they were all captured by the local nobs before the ink was dry on the articles of association.
You know the sort of thing, the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, an ugly business, but someone had take charge of the taking that resulted from such a momentous invention.
‘A meeting of the members of Middlesbrough Cricket Club’ Surely not as catchy as the Tripe Supper?
Or “What a load of (cricket) Balls” or even “New balls please”.
I don’t think we can point at any one area of the pitch for our current situation.
We were rock solid in the championship under Karanka, Nsue and George used to bomb forward so were no different to Christie and Fabio. Ayala and Gibson were the core of the defence but Ayala had spells out.
As I posted previously I don’t like centre halves being split, making challenges on the touchline just doesn’t seem right, Clayts or someone else dropping back alongside the centre halve means vacating the midfield freeing midfield runners.
I don’t profess to know the answer, I can guess that letting a midfielder or wide man track back may work better but I do know what makes me uncomfortable and that is centre backs out on the wing!
OR midfielders playing at centre bsck
One of AK’s strength’s was his ability to ensure players eliminated/minimised individual errors. Its something that Monk needs to address also.
Cardiff will be a tough game, we need an experienced first XI on the pitch and no soft goals given away, early or otherwise. If we go one down against Cardiff I wouldn’t fancy our chances of pulling it back.
As Borophil said, win against Cardiff and we’ve given ourselves a big boost. Which mat be all the team needs to get itself going this season.
Nsue needed a full season to get up to speed. Once a weak link, he had his own song before you knew it.
Karanka needed half a season to build a proper promotion-chasing team.
Sometimes the “p” word, which Spartak would rather I didn’t mention, is valid. Sometimes, it isn’t.
And if one realises that the belief they had in a regime is not so valid after all, they’re entitled to change their mind. We are, after all, human. As are players. And managers. And chairmen.
Chairmen are human? Who knew?
I’m human. And a Chairman.
I’m a human and a settee man myself
OFB : Sofa so good then ? 😃
and bloggers! and posters!
Well, we’ve often been prone to seeing them as can-do-no-wrong gods, sent down from above to cure all our ills…
Ha, Speak for yourself !
My reply was to OFB, not Simon BTW !!!
Now what have I done ?
Insinuating by inference (bloggers and posters) that I’m human. !!
Also. There’s two sides to every coin.
One train of thought suggests that it’s simply a strange league, and that teams regularly under-perform and over-perform. That it’s not strictly a MonksBoro thing and that given time he and the team will find their way.
The other train of thought argues that if the players aren’t focused and organised under Monk, the questions must be asked now. And that merely saying, “that’s just how the Championship is” is a way of absolving Boro for poor performances.
Given the resources Monk has, it is more than reasonable to accept more. AK had his faults – plenty – but at least his teams boldly went where Strach’s Boro and MoggaBoro could not.
AK came with a predetermined game plan: 4231, from which he rarely deviated. He consequently bought, developed and selected players to fit into his team shape.
It is obvious that GM is not wedded to a particular formation, which has its upside and downside. However he must by now have had time to assess his best players and to have identified a core whose names are first on the team sheet.
Judging by team selections to date, it is clear that Randolph, Gibson, Christie, Clayton, Assambalonga and probably Fabio are already nailed-on selections. To those, my personal additions would be: Leadbitter, Downing and Braithwaite (I believe they add craft and intelligence that is otherwise missing). Accepting that he needs to be nursed and will need occasional breaks, my last choice would be Fry.
Several of these players are versatile which enables the choice of several formations.
Both FBs are better going forward than defending, thus opening the possibility of their playing WBs to a back 3. Grant can play the holding role he has occupied for the last few years but can also be unleashed to his original more creative and offensive contribution. Both Downing and Braithwaite can play wide or more central, right or left and they can also be deployed up front, just behind or in midfield.
This offers a plethora of different formations, which may well be the conundrum. With a core of 10 players needing only an extra midfielder or forward. GM’s challenge now is the reverse of AK’s: to decide on a team shape and tactics which suits those players and vice versa.
However is is past time that he solved this conundrum and was finding a setup that made the most of these talents. So far the whole has been less than the sum of the parts.
I might be coming to the dying embers of the debate, but I’ll add my 5-Rappens worth anyway.
There was a time back on the old blog that I took exception to some fairly relentless negativity from certain members of this erstwhile blog, and in particular what I saw as personal attacks, or attempts to discredit the views of others, by attacking them personally. This included attempts to ridicule the positivity of Borophil and others (Nigel) plus general high-handedness towards others. Certain members is starting to get quite specific, so I shall leave it there.
It did make me think twice about visiting and contributing to the blog. Perhaps my contributions will not be missed, but there it is. I welcome debate, I welcome people bringing forward their opinions, and, as Forever Dormo succinctly states, there are many areas in football where opinions are the currency in which we trade. The interpretation of facts is another area where opinions hold sway. One person’s 97% pass completion ratio becomes anothers lack of taking risky options and always playing safe.
However, I firmly believe that the best arguments, and the best orators, are those who can put forward their argument without ridiculing or belittling the views of others. That is a cheap attempt to frame the debate without bringing your own view and arguing your own position. I therefore welcome a re-iteration that these types of comments are not welcome and go against the spirit of the blog.
Onto football matters. Firstly, RE Shakespeare at Leicester (mentioned above). One thing we must not forget is that Shakespeare fell into the job. He was the right man at the right time and struck a chord by getting Leicester back to some of the success they had in the title winning season. However, if you had given the owners a 6 month break to find a manager I think you would be surprised if his name had come up. It was a surprise that they didn’t fire him in the close season, given their previous with reference to Nigel Pearson, but it’s not too much of a surprise that they chose the first possible moment when the fans would largely be in agreement to let him go. It will be interesting to see where he turns up next.
As for Boro, well, another 2-2 draw is exasperating. I think the cat is well and truly out of the bag about Boro being slow to the game, and I expect the de facto tactic from all of our opposition, home and away, to be to tear into us from the off for a 10min spell and see if they can get a goal or two up. Norwich had the game plan and the template clearly ready, other teams will do so too. I’m not sure how I would plan to mitigate that if I were Monk. Should we try to impose ourselves during this spell, which would likely lead to a frantic and very open start to the game, or nullify the game and start to impose ourselves thereafter?
It’s an interesting conundrum, and one which I argued a few weeks back that AK-Boro didn’t really have. We had such a rock-solid style and approach that we would often score the first goal, particularly in high-profile away games, and subsequently close the game out. Monk, by contrast, seems to tend more towards the Mogga spectrum, with a more fluid and reactive approach. The other opinion could be that the players simply aren’t ready for the responsibility that Monk gives them and would prefer an AK-like rigidity of style and play.
I’m hoping for a good result against Cardiff, as I can see our season losing momentum and purpose already, and we haven’t even got to our post-Christmas slump, or Monk’s last two-months tail off yet!
Great Post and well said on all points
I think of myself as the Guedioura of the blog. I rarely, if ever, make an appearance, and when I do I never do anything you didn’t already know.
Yea but just think how much money you’re getting for doing nothing !
Smoggy; One of the most sensible posts for a long time.
We’ve gone to Cardiff in previous seasons and beaten them against the odds and to everybody’s pleasant surprise. Won’t the Championship landscape look different if we repeat that? Especially if we found ourselves in the top 6 which, although very unlikely, is just about mathematically possible. Above all, if the team finally, belatedly clicks and we play them off the park with an organised display of fluid football.
Ah, it’s the hope wot kills you in the end …
I don’t think Cardiff will finish the season anywhere near the playoffs, certainly on the evidence of last Friday’s match at Birmingham. I think that they will implode rather like Norwich did last season. However, against any team at home I do think we should attack straight from the kickoff. We very rarely score an early goal nowadays, last Saturday being the odd exception although of course we were already a goal down by then.
Wins the ball in the middle and plays an insightful ball into the centre…..
Nikeboro
We have pooped on their promotion pushes a couple of times but we will never forget the FA Cup tie. I was in London for the weekend of the semi’s, how convenient, sadly, Boro were not.
Lets hope we do the business on saturday
Retaliate first
The trundling poster does the business.
Trundling indeed. Twas a full 3 minutes I waited for the action once I had tee’d it up… Almost decided to go solo, but good manners and a sense of fair play held me back 😉
Is that another goal for Mr. Gill? I was still tying me laces, maybe I’ll get a call from Monk to play alongside Gibbo, I fit the profile. slow to get started!
I was ghosting in and arrived in the box at the right time, as David Coleman commentated about Allan ‘Sniffer’ Clarke ‘you cant give this man as much time and space and they have paid the penalty’
MFC
Are I think at the crossroads , regarding this season , it’s obvious we need to go on a big run of wins,if we hope to get in the mix.
I say that because if it’s a win,then loss, then draw,and it continues, through Nov,Dec ,it could be too late,even if you start winning again,
Because what you will end up doing is helping the teams above.
For instance if we beat Cardiff, yes it’s a win, but ,it really helps Wolves, they will stay above the pack.
If you get my meaning, and this is why ,I, for one am concerned this early
COB
smoggyinexile,
Don’t take this personally, but you are talking a load of bleeding nonsense.
When you post it is always because you have something relevant and incisive to say, and you invariably express it crisply, and, as above, self-deprecatingly. I,for one, always look out for and forward to, your posts.
I couldn’t disagree with you more.
Sportsmanship warning.
The young Benfica keeper made a blunder that cost them a goal and defeat against ManU in the ‘best of the rest including championship winners’ league.
Fair play to the ManU players who went over at the final whistle to give him kind words and encouragement.
A little thing but good to see.
Simon,
On your two trains of thought, I would discount the first one in one word “Wolves”
They are similar to Boro as they have a strong squad and have spent quite a bit of cash. They dont seem to accept the win one, draw one lose one pattern.
I believe the second train is more accurate, as I have previously said, I think something is wrong behind the scenes. I cannot believe that Monk still isn’t capable of getting them to play to their full potential. The swapping and changing doesn’t help but they are a talented group and as the gazette have pointed out, other teams have swapped and changed with inferior players.
In the games I have watched Boro dont seem to be as motivated as the opposition, are they focused from the kick off? the stats suggest they are not.
The Boro have a large squad and most of the players would expect to be in the starting eleven, other clubs players do not perhaps have the same expectations.
One would expect the Boro players to be fighting for a shirt but maybe the opposite is true and some noses have been put out of joint.
Grant, George, Danni, Adama and Paddy are examples of players who I would imagine are not thrilled with their current game time and must be wondering why the newbies are getting a game ahead of them, especially as the results do not seem to justify their selection.
Of course I hope I am barking up the wrong tree Mr Parker!
UTB
I’m also in the Bamford gang. I think he offers something significantly different to our other strikers. I see Fletcher and Assombalonga as being similar, and i would treat the former as an understudy to the latter. My one surprise this season is that we haven’t seen more of Paddy & Britt playing together. We would have a partnership in the mould of Cole and Sheringham then that could really help us tear up the league.
With Braithwaite joining them to make a front 3, or roaming behind In a sort of attacking triangle I could see us posing some good questions of the opposition. Such a narrow line up would allow Monk to work on his attacking full backs and one midfielder slotting deep to make a back three. Although that hasn’t worked out as expected in all games as we seem to get caught out behind the full backs a lot.
Regardless, when Braithwaite was injured we saw Bamford get a run out and, in my opinion, deserve his place. His goals in the cup were a timely reminder of his talents, and its mystifying why he isn’t used more often. I only hope that Monk doesn’t come to his Paddy ephinany too late; he is a player I would like to see a lot more of in the starting 11.
Werder
I’ve sent you an email it may be in your junk folder (like all my posts!)
OFB
The pantomime has played at the House of Commons. The FA are incompetent, what a surprise.
Good to see that the debate about playing the ball and not the man has died down and it is now safe for me to come out from behind the sofa.
Early warning for all the overseas Diasboro brethren, the match against Hull on the 31st of October will not be on iFOLLOW as Hull have taken the same decision as MFC to not subscribe to the EFL’s streaming facility.
Unless another stream can be found (not sure what Bet365 are showing that night) then it will be back to the club website and radio commentary from BBC Tees. At least that is still free as opposed to the Hull site where an annual pass is £35 or £4.49 per month.
OK, I’ve just posted up my Cardiff preview as we hope Boro will allay our promotion fears and put in a brave performance…
https://diasboro.club/2017/10/19/championship-boro-vs-cardiff/
Weirder
One point about the legacy of Ak.
He demolished the endless sob stories on the lines of, “we have’nt beaten them since (insert your own unfeasible date at this point).
He took a bulldozer to them all, and what a relief it was to all boro nuts.
You must win all your home games(or die in the attempt) we got used to winning at home, and it was lovely.
You must not let the opposition score, pulling a goal back is very difficult.
And boy, did he believe this.
Sadly, we have reverted to type with a sigh of relief, we lose plenty at home.
We love the opposition to score before us, and meeting a team who always beat us just gives the players a chance to take it easy.
I see that the inglorious FA have taken action against a player diving.
Now for a little competition.
Did they punish one of the many stars of match of the day, seen in full colour from twenty angles diving to win an important match(sometimes even winning a bonus when their victim pushed them in anger and getting a red)?
Or did they wait four months and then find a victim in a small match about four hundred miles from London, (somewhere like, oh, I don’t know, maybe Carlisle)?
A tribute to the power of free lunches and a seat at the big match