| Middlesbrough | Brentford | ||
| Brathwaite Fabio |
68′ 76′ |
Barbet Watkins |
29′ 72′ |
| Possession Shots On target Corners Fouls |
51% 8 3 3 21 |
Possession Shots On target Corners Fouls |
49% 14 2 7 13 |
Busy Bees boss bereft Boro
I have to admit that way back when the fixtures came out Brentford at home didn’t stand out as a must win game. Fast forward a few months into Garry Monk’s reign and the fact that today was not only a must win game but a must win convincingly game set the tone for this afternoons proceedings. Brentford arrived at the Riverside fresh from a victory themselves after a disappointing start to their season keen to keep their new found momentum going. Boro on the other hand had started and spluttered then sprung to life and spluttered again at home to the Canaries.
Garry Monk for the first time in his Riverside career was facing questions on his competencies, selections and tactics. New Boo boys have emerged, underwhelming Striker return rates, defensive frailties becoming the norm allied to slow starts the order of the day and the points per game ratio achieved versus investment potential have stunk the Riverside out. Cheeky Chappy interviews that once endeared GM to the waiting masses have started to wear thin, the “love in” was on the wane pre kick off.
The team selection saw Dael benched and Braithwaite starting in place of Baker. Shotton came into the backline to get his first start of the season, the logic presumably being that a seasoned CB alongside Ben would tighten things up, provide composure and steady things at the back. Braithwaite was always seemingly intended to be a regular starter rather than a benchwarmer so his inclusion was probably indicative of his fitness level back to 100% after his lengthy lay off.
As the teams came out the bright sunshine dimmed as dark clouds came in over the Riverside, little did we know what an omen that would prove to be. Immediately after the kick off Fabio picked up a loose ball, went flying down the wing, bizarrely passed to Johnson on the wing except he wasn’t there and the ball went out for a soft throw in and that was a sign of things to come. A mere hiccup we thought except that the Bees were buzzing, hungry, chasing, closing, playing fast football, swarming forward, supporting their attack, they were supposed to park the bus! Boro were pushed back, defending like Keystone Cops with some of the most disorganised chaotic and comedic attempts to repel attacks since Andre Bikey graced the Riverside Stadium way back when. In fairness to Bikey as the game progressed he would like as not have been MOM had he been playing because there was certainly no one else in a Red Shirt that would qualify.
Watching the game I was trying to mentally note key moments but lost count of the disastrous and incredible scenes which continuously unfolded before me. Christie as we know is great going forward but suspect at times defending, today was no different with Brentford enjoying a fair amount of freedom on his flank relying on the wayward Traore as cover. Adama had one of his off days which culminated in an attacking move in which the ball was played through for him to run onto but he had brain freeze, switched off, standing motionless three yards behind play probably distracted by the big bright lights on the East Stand opposite.
On the left Fabio seemed to struggle and was being out fought as Johnson in front of him was largely anonymous and looked a little out of his depth apart from a few cross field runs. The exciting dribbling skills and turn of pace now seems to be a one game cameo. As a result both flanks were being attacked and we had little in our armoury to hold the line. In the middle of the back line was Ben with Shotton. I only wished someone had introduced Ryan to the rest of his defensive team mates as he looked as confused positionally with them as they were with him, not helped by the fact that our RB and LB were being given a torrid time and being overrun in turn. After 15 minutes I was thinking that this slow start will settle, things will bed in and we will start to put on a show. Little did I suspect then that things not only could but actually would get worse. It was X rated, no it was more like an underground XXX movie that I imagine is only shown on extremely dubious websites on the alleged dark web place (wherever that is). If Channel 5 has any decency tonight they will put Boro’s defending on there in an effort not to upset Teesside viewers and cause irreparable psychological damage.
In the seventh minute Clayts brought down Mokotjo for what looked like a penalty but Ref Paul Tierney ignored the appeal in what was to be an eventful day of poor officiating, so bad in fact nobody was even bothered to sing the “We have some ………. Refs but you are the worst”. The Boro performance was so abysmal that any sleight of the officiating would have been embarrassing. Boro themselves had a few penalty claims, one a stonewaller on Baker in the second half that was waved away and a curious incident when Christie broke through in the last minute but when clear in the box to cross he seemed to have the merest nibble on his ankle to send him sprawling. Had either been given it would have been an injustice on the scoreline which actually flattered Boro in achieving the draw.
Anyway back to the game itself and as our backline scrambled around clueless not helped much by Howson and Clayton lying deep and clattering into challenges but not coming away with the ball. On the half hour a free kick was awarded for a soft foul on the left hand edge of the Boro box in a dangerous position (stop me if you have heard this before). The free kick was gently floated in, almost wafted in fact it was so graceful and the big Brentford defender Barbet rose in the middle of the 6 yard box, unmarked to do what Britt clearly couldn’t on Tuesday and place a header away from a Keeper. 1-0 to the green shirted Bees and I have to say they thoroughly deserved their lead.
No doubt we would come from behind because under Garry Monk we are now very good at that except we didn’t. We were even more awful, total strangers, no set up, no organisation, no shape and no leadership anywhere made worse by the fact that Grant was on the Bench alongside George and Stewy and Ayala were presumably in the West Stand upper. I don’t think that even during Strachan’s darkest days or even when Gareth had lost it have I seen a team so disjointed, rudderless and hopeless. In balance fair play and full respect to Brentford as they came, they attacked and played decent football.
Britt was running around but not really making anything happen again. Braithwaite done reasonably well considering his long layoff but being honest he wasn’t great but not being great was an upgrade on his team mates at least. As the half time whistle went the Boos rang out loud and clear, can’t say that I booed, I think I was in a state of disbelief at what I had just witnessed. GM needed to do some sort of miracle team talk if he was going to extricate himself from this one. As it was he hooked Adama but it could have been any of them including the normally reliable Randolph who seemed at sixes and sevens with his defence and at one point stood and stared at the ball in the middle of the 18 yard box whilst Shotton, Ben and a.n. other in a Red shirt also stared instead of booting it clear. It had been pure purgatory to suffer. The tweak at the back with Shotton in for Dael had become a car crash with multiple casualties.
In the middle of the first half the Brentford LB had been stretchered off and as they had no recognised LB on the bench you would have thought that Christie and Traore would have destroyed them but no it just wasn’t to be despite a midfielder shoe horned in.
When the second half started on came Fletcher whose long legged frame ran and ran and chased but couldn’t actually control the ball or make any real impact. All afternoon Boro over hit their corners, left nobody up field when defending Brentford corners meaning that they couldn’t clear them as the ball simply kept going to a Brentford player and came straight back at them. Bentley in the Brentford goal would clear his lines by hoofing it up field and setting up another attack while Randolph rolled it out to Ben who was quickly hassled into passing it like as not to Shotton or Howson or Clayts who again were quickly chased, surrounded and closed down often conceding possession under pressure but still we persisted rolling it out.
Bamford had been brought on for Johnson and with around twenty minutes left a ball into the Brentford box from a free kick saw a session of head tennis before Ben Gibson nodded it out to the edge of the 6 yard box where Braithwaite smashed it home, it was 1-1 and Brentford had been robbed. Joyous and euphoric along with disbelief rained down on the Riverside as the Home fans raised their game and now had something worth supporting. With their tails in the air and confidence levels boosted Boro then went and allowed Brentford another goal almost immediately as they carved open the Boro defence with ease and with a trickling ball across the entire Boro backline Watkins tapped in what in my opinion what should have been the winner.
Baker arrived for the tiring Braithwaite and incredibly the comeback Kings done it again Lazarus like. Howson broke into the Bees Box after playing a one two with Fletcher and crossed to Bamford who had the ball nicked off his toes but carried on in the same trajectory to Fabio who rifled home with his trusty right foot, 2-2 and that remarkably is how it ended.
Today showed frailties way beyond anything that SG would have remotely countenanced when signing those summer cheques. The sheer inability of players to have any understanding of a game plan or ability to control the game was a shock. I missed Tuesday night but those sat around me said that it was as bad as today. If so and the abject failure to address it this afternoon made worse by tinkering with the CB pairing is of major concern. There were many utterances after the final whistles which are not printable on here but of grave concern is that GM was being considered as useless without Clotet and would we be better off with the return of Aggers or even AK? Smashing the league wasn’t supposed to be like this!
Boro hope to avoid being stung by Bees
After failing to be on song against the canaries, Boro will want to avoid being stung by the Bees this Saturday – otherwise the Boro chairman may decide it’s time to have a little chat with his young manager about the birds and the bees. Though whether any advice on such delicate matters will give Garry Monk a greater understanding on making our meagre points haul multiply as we go forth remains to be seen.
Brentford had a slow start to their season and only picked up one point in their first four games – though two of those defeats were against early pace-setters Ipswich and Sheffield United and their only point was at home to current seventh spot club Bristol City. Since then they have steadied the ship and have only lost one of their last six, which was away to the Owls – but they seem to have become the draw specialists and have conceding just four goals in the last six outings. It may be interesting to note that although they languish just above the drop zone, they have actually scored the same number of goals as our multi-million pound strike force – make of that what you will but the words for Boro’s is starting to sound like under-performing.
| Middlesbrough | Brentford | ||
| Gary Monk | Dean Smith | ||
| P10 – W4 – D3 – L3 – F11 – A7 | P10 – W1 – D5 – L4 – F11 – A13 | ||
| Position Points Points per game Projected points |
9th 15 1.5 69 |
Position Points Points per game Projected points |
20th 8 0.8 37 |
| Last 6 Games Norwich (H) Fulham (A) QPR (H) Aston Villa (A) Bolton (A) Preston (H) |
F-T (H-T) 0:1 (0:1) L 1:1 (0-0) D 3:2 (1:1) W 0:0 (0:0) D 3:0 (1:0) W 0:0 (0:0) D |
Last 6 Games Derby (H) Bolton (A) Reading (H) Sheff Wed (A) Aston Villa (A) Wolves (H) |
F-T (H-T) 1:1 (0:1) D 3:0 (1:0) W 1:1 (1:0) D 1:2 (1:1) L 0:0 (0:0) D 0:0 (0:0) D |
I suspect if the club are contemplating any further banning orders then the word ‘smash’ is probably up there with the likes of ‘Dom’ and ‘Jonno’ – it must be a word that stops Steve Gibson in his tracks whenever he hears it as the fingernails down the blackboard on which it was hastily scribbled shred his nerves. It’s possible the Boro catering department has no doubt struck off certain brands of instant mash potato from its shopping list and anyone playing tennis with the chairman is under strict instructions not play unduly hard overhead shots. Even Mark Page has been encouraged to avoid slipping into his ‘Smashy and Nicey’ DJ persona just in case it triggers an unwarranted word association in the Boro owner’s head – plus any remotely passable impersonations of Bullseye host Jim Bowen with his ‘Super Smashing’ catchphrase is now a sackable offence (note: for similar reasons, ‘Here’s what you could have won’ has also been placed on the Banned Phrases list until further notice)
Expectations are never easy to live up to once they have been over-enthusiastically placed in the public domain but I’d suspect any calls for patience at the Riverside may fall on deaf ears as the season gathers pace – though that is perhaps also mainly down to the many years of MMP setting the PA volume levels to eleven.
The question now being contemplated is whether automatic promotion is beginning to look like a target perhaps beyond us this season. Boro are only in ninth spot and whilst six points off the pace doesn’t sound much, the team have still not found their rhythm and we’re still looking like a work in progress. Teams who are making a promotion charge need to go on runs where they win four or five on the bounce – as yet Boro have managed only once to get two wins on the spin and that was back in games 2-3. A win against Norwich would have had most supporters feeling Boro were more or less on track for their automatic promotion ambitions, just three points adrift of the top two. However, a defeat has strangely left many thinking we are not good enough and exposed our weaknesses – perhaps the reality is some where in the middle.
Boro are now at the ten-game mark and we can start to make comparison’s with teams who were promoted in previous seasons. The table below covers the years since we were relegated under Southgate – it shows how each of the automatically promoted teams fared in their first ten games, plus Boro’s points haul is also shown in the final column. Only twice have teams recovered from a worse start than Boro have had this season to finish in the top two – Reading went on to win two-thirds of their remaining 36 games, losing just three more – with Bournemouth achieving a similar feat, losing only as many games as they had done in the first ten until the end of the season. So the odds are probably stacked against Boro unless they can start to put a run of victories together and that means sooner rather than later.
| First ten games of automatically promoted teams | ||||
| Season | Top two teams | First ten games | Total | Boro |
| 2017-18 | 1.Cardiff 2.Sheff Utd 9.Middlesbrough |
W7 D2 L1 – 23pts W7 D0 L3 – 21pts W4 D3 L3 – 15pts |
||
| 2016-17 | 1.Newcastle 2.Brighton |
W6 D1 L3 – 19pts W5 D3 L2 – 18pts |
94pts 93pts |
|
| 2015-16 | 1.Burnley 2.Middlesbrough |
W5 D3 L2 – 18pts W6 D2 L2 – 20pts |
93pts 89pts |
2nd – 89pts |
| 2014-15 | 1.Bournemouth 2.Watford |
W3 D3 L4 – 12pts W6 D2 L2 – 20pts |
90pts 89pts |
4th – 85pts |
| 2013-14 | 1.Leicester 2.Burnley |
W7 D2 L1 – 23pts W7 D2 L1 – 23pts |
102pts 93pts |
12th – 64pts |
| 2012-13 | 1.Cardiff 2.Hull |
W7 D1 L2 – 22pts W5 D1 L4 – 16pts |
87pts 79pts |
16th – 59pts |
| 2011-12 | 1.Reading 2.Southampton |
W3 D3 L4 – 12pts W7 D1 L2 – 22pts |
89pts 88pts |
7th – 70pts |
| 2010-11 | 1.QPR 2.Norwich |
W8 D2 L0 – 26pts W6 D1 L3 – 19pts |
88pts 84pts |
12th – 62pts |
| 2009-10 | 1.Newcastle 2.West Brom |
W7 D2 L1 – 23pts W6 D2 L2 – 20pts |
102pts 91pts |
11th – 62pts |
Garry Monk has some important decisions to make regarding team selection and the focus should be at the sharp end for a home game against beatable opposition. Assombalonga is coming under scrutiny after another game of fluffing his lines and his price-tag doesn’t make him a better player than other options – just a more expensive one. Whether, his club record fee meant he was given the less-coveted shooting boots of Alfonso Alves as part of the deal is hopefully just an urban myth – though Boro strikers do seem to inherit something of a profligate rather than proliferate stature that is also proportionate to the amount spent.
However, the return of Martin Braithwaite will hopefully add some much needed guile and energy around the box – perhaps the player who can partner him best will get more starts as he looked a class act in pre-season. Maybe Bamford’s more intelligent and nuanced approach would be the best fit rather than the brute force offered by Britt – time and opportunity will decide that one though.
In defence, there were some suggestions that Dael Fry had earned himself a seat on the bench for sheepishly failing to shepherd the ball out of play that lead to Norwich’s wonder-strike. I think that would be a bit harsh on a young player who has on the whole been comfortable in central defence – plus with the international break arriving after the game there’s no real need to rest him. The main worry defensively is that our fullbacks are seemingly better at going forward than defending and maybe are better suited to covering as wing-backs with a central defensive trio being charged with clearing the main threats instead – that is probably something to contemplate in the upcoming break though.
Also the midfield hasn’t really settled on a particular pairing or type of pairing that functions both defensively and offensively. I wonder if Baker will be dropping a little deeper now that our forwards are returning from injury and suspension. Clayton is good defensively but is that enough when the service to the attack hasn’t been of the best quality? Twenty-one attempts against Norwich may statistically suggest otherwise but their keeper wasn’t really troubled by our tame invention. The return of Adama saw some sublime moments of skill and pace but most were reserved for our own half that weren’t going to lead to much in the way of shooting chances – he needs to play 20-30 yards further up the pitch to be a real danger.
So will the Riverside be a hive of activity on Saturday as Boro leave their fans buzzing? or will Garry Monk’s team fall foul to the Bee’s honey trap and continue their sticky patch into the break? As usual your predictions on score, scorers and team selection – plus will Boro’s attack show some punch or will they float like a bee and sting like a butterfly?
Well I’m going to push the boat out and go for an emphatic 1 – 0 win with a penalty on Traore and taken by Leadbitter in the 93rd minute
That’ll be worth the long journey… just about!
A bit off topic but quite topical.
As a collective noun could we have a ‘Conference of Corbyns’ or a ‘Conference of Corbynites’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8EMx7Y16Vo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Just ponderin like
When you say ‘bit’ did you mean completely…
English understatement, Werder 🙂
Similar to ‘We’re having a spot of bother!’ That was when the Glous on hill 235 faced 10 000 chinese soldiers in Korea and there were just over 600 of them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Imjin_River
🙂
Continuing the discussion carried over from the last blog about team selections for tomorrow there are some very interesting stats about Grant and Stewy on the Boro stats twitter site!
https: // twitter.com / boroform
Elsewhere I see that Bayern have parted company with Acellotti.
“Carlo Ancelotti has been sacked as head coach of Bayern Munich following an underwhelming start to the season. Ancelotti had won the Bundesliga title in his first campaign in Germany, but results and performances have tailed off. Bayern CEO Karl-Heinz Rummenigge said in a statement: “The performance of our team since the start of the season did not meet the expectations we put to them.”
Underwhelming, not just us then!
🔴 RR I decided to remove the embedded link of the Boro Twitter feed as it becomes a live link in WordPress and moves on with each new Tweet – plus in my browser it expanded to fill the whole blog page. I don’t know if there’s a way to embed individual specific Tweets that you referred to – or maybe give a quick summary of what they said – Werdermouth
Werder
No problem, I hadn’t intended it to be a live link when I posted.
Honey Monsters 4 Bees 1
But will the Boro players be buzzin around frantic like in the first 20mins?
As long as we don’t get stung I’ll be the one that’s buzzing !
Lets hope for a ‘hive’ of activity!
🙂
Another excellent piece Werder.
You suggest that “automatic promotion is beginning to look like a target perhaps beyond us this season”. I would suggest that unless there is a rapid improvement in performances, consistency and thereby results, automatic promotion is a pipe dream and scrambling up via the playoffs is also very unlikely. Let’s hope that we see some evidence of such an improvement this Saturday.
I’m not going to predict the team and formation because Monk doesn’t seem to know his best team and so it is a waste of time trying to predict the unpredictable.
As for the score, I don’t have a good feeling about the game and so my forecast is 1-1 with Johnson the scorer (if he plays). I hope I am completely wrong and we give the Bees a drubbing.
Sounds like you’ve been stung before !
I was stung yesterday. I took me missus to listen Sting in Helsinki yesterday. A wonderfull night, we really injoyed the night. But is he a Newcastle fan as he originates from Wallsend? Or a Bees fan as he prefered South to North in his youth…
I hope we finally start a run now. So I will go for a decent 2-0 win with Gibson and Assombalonga the scorers. Unfortunately I have to attend a fair tomorrow – so a work day for me. I might be able to listen to the second half on car. Fingers crossed.
Up the Boro!
Jarkko
Sting is a Newcastle fan as is Mark Knoffler from Dire Straits (also known as Sunderland FC)
After the game tomorrow straight off to Newcastle with Mrs OFB and friends to see Christie Hynd and the pretenders (also knowm as the Boro!)
OFB
Thanks Boroexile, I agree that unless Boro find some consistency – and there are plenty of valid reasons why that is proving difficult given the major overhaul in the summer – then we may find this season becomes more about the playoffs. Boro basically need to go on a winning run in the near future or they’ll need to go on a mega-run in the second half of the season.
Terrific preview, Werder. Smashing, in fact.
The promoted teams trend looks concerning but I don’t think we should read too much into it. The important thing is to pick up the points by the end of the season, it doesn’t matter in which order you do it.
Monk is getting a bit of a bashing at the moment and understandably so given the dropped points but I feel his decision making thus far has lead to a lot less head-scratching than his two immediate predecessors and I think it’ll come together before too long, though to what extent is hard to say.
I think the recruitment, team selections and substitutions have all been logical and with an air of common sense and that gives me confidence that the execution will come, though we need it consistently and very soon if we are to achieve automatic promotion.
We have the necessary tools for a comfortable win on Saturday. We just need to execute.
Thanks Andy, it’s true that there are no extra points for getting them in early but not picking them up is usually a symptom of underlying issues that are not yet working. The question is whether Boro are gradually sorting out those issues or whether there is still more thinking to be done.
I like Monk as a manager, he’s intelligent and articulate and I think he will get it right eventually – but he’s only had a dozen games and he needs time to work out the best options, plus he needs to discover which players can deliver what he wants. With automatic promotion, a lot will depend on whether teams above set a high target or we get something that can be overtaken as we improve during the season.
Very early days yet, how many of the clubs currently above us will still be above us come season end?
I think I can safely discount about five., long way to go yet. Cream always rises and I think this squad will come good.
Hopefully less than two! Though my table in the match preview shows that over 80% of clubs who get automatic promotion usually start better than Boro have done. It really demonstrates that clubs who finish in the top two need to be more consistent. There are exceptions such as Reading and Bournemouth who started with only 12 points from the first ten, but they made up for it by loading their points haul in the remainder of the season – either way Boro will need to start putting together winning runs sooner rather than later as the more clubs that are above you, the more consistently victorious you need to be.
But yes it’s still too early to be panicking – the depth of our squad may start to tell come the dark winter months!
This is why I love this blog
No ranting and raving clear cut concussive posts and above all
Confidence and enthusiasm
I wonder if Ben’s drop in form is due to having to mind Dael? Or put another way, would Dael benefit from the sort of formative season Ben had at Preston. Ten games at Rotherham before terminating the loan early isn’t quite the same. I imagine a full season in a lower division would have quickly removed any notion of not using the row Z option.
That said, our fluid midfield almost invites pressure on our CB’s and it certainly does on our full backs. Up front Britt suffers from big lad syndrome. He won’t ever be given the benefit of the shadow of a doubt. Refs will assume a big unit such as himself can take care of himself or must be faking. I doubt he’ll win a penalty all season, no matter how deserved.
At home we should keep Traore in reserve until the game opens up.
One all. Fingers crossed.
I also thought the loss of form by Ben was having to look after Dael Fry
Never heard the expression “drop in doormat” sounds impressive as it means strikers won’t walk all over you !
Night shift here!
Randolf in goal with the appropriate beekeepers gloves.
A colony of defenders, Christie, Gibbo, Shotton and Friend. A well deserved rest for Fry, defended like a queen on Tuesday.
A couple of workers CM Leadbitter and Baker.
Wide drones Fletcher and Downing.
Bamford to produce nectar at number 10
Britt up top swarming all over their defence
Adama as impact sub, smoking their full back and making a beeline for the pollen-ty box.
Score: 2-0 Boro, A stinging volley by Bamford and a pollen-ty by Grant.
Sweater than honey, the Riverside will be buzzing.
We can all wax lyrical after RR’s report
Nice post!
Good punnage. I expect a hive of activity in praising your efforts.
I have attendened the manager’s press conference once or twice. Perhaps I got treated a bit differenly as a fan from somewhere far away. But I think Rob from fmttm fanzine attends the pre-match conference.
What I try to say here is that we could send OFB or Ken over there as the Gazette guys are missing there now.
Just saying, like. Up the Boro!
Don’t know if we would get in without a Press Pass?
I did but then I was not considered as a “normal” fan. They invited me to join in. And Mogga had a few extra words with me afterwards – we talked about Finnish players.
I loved Mogga, me. Up the Boro!
In my case a walking frame.
My personal view is that Diasboro is just an independent niche blog with differing opinions and not part of the established media needing to have a presence at press conferences. Would anyone attending a press conference from Diasboro necessarily be speaking on its behalf or would they be there in their own individual capacity? I’m more happy with being an outsider looking in and free to just say whatever happens to come to mind – I wasn’t totally convinced about joining the fans forum either as then you need to take a collective view on matters.
Good point and the fans forum seem to have lost their voice and curled up in a corner and left to whither!
Exactly, this just a part time blog, the pro’s would laugh at any attendees with delusions of grandeur.
Better to observe than be observed.
Well with my bulk I would certainly stand out in a crowd !
Not inconspicuous me like !
The only two accredited journos that I know of on this blog are Si and Chris H. Distance would rule them out for attendance but their accreditation would gain them entrance
The other point is that Boro post the full press conference on their web site within a short time of it taking place and without using a mobile modem linked to a laptop either RR or myself couldn’t travel back to our home based computer to post our views before the official video is released on line by Boro
Interesting thought though !
OFB
I think the benefit of this blog is that it is simply passionate fans experiencing the highs and lows that comes with supporting Boro and putting their thoughts, views, opinions and emotions in print.
None of us apart from the two contributors Bob has mentioned above are professional and even then Diasboro is a side interest for them like all of us and not their main job. I think not being “professional” is what makes Diasboro unique and perhaps more direct and honest even when at times unpalatable. I’m not sure that it could retain that freedom or mindset if we became semi pros.
Once again, you made me chuckle Werder. How do you come up with these entertaining themes?
I have been saying to my match going friends that Traore needs to play further up the pitch to become more of a threat, so on that we agree.
After Tuesday’s poor show, it will be interesting to see how the line up is re-jigged.
Simon
Fluid midfield? Watching the goal from Tuesday it was certainly fluid, like in a colander. Absent would be a better description.
Interesting that Werder’s table shows only 2 of 16 teams who got automatic promotion had worse records than ours after ten games. Reasonable evidence for Graham Taylors ten game test.
If we get 2 points a game from now on what does the table tell us. Only three out of 16 got up with 87 or fewer points.
It is all a bit of fun and conjecture but whilst the game is played on grass by humans it still tells us that we should get our fingers out as OFB suggests above.
GHW
it’s not the quality of the squad that concerns me so much as how they are selected and deployed.
Opposition managers have seen how others stifle the Boro. They can be satisfied with a point away from home. As each loss and draw accummulates for the Boro the pressure grows.
Xmas comes soon as will the excuses and wishful thinking if we are outside the play-off places. Other teams don’t drift off into sanguine paralysis, like Bayern they recognise a problem and act decisively.
‘But we’re sooo close!’ It isn’t good enough -change or fail.
Sparta
Just seen the statistical table produced by werder.
Devastating is the word, it puts all the waffle produced by the likes of me in context,
We are now officially whistling in the dark, saying “oh, but we are different, our points total is not too low to get us promoted” tell that to the birds.
Oh for the comfort blanket of the rock solid home form of AK’s team in the Championship.
I see that the speedball is still being treated with disrespect, if he is a bit of a joke then it is a pity that we don’t have more like him.
Strange to take him off just as their legs went and it became a case of standing on their goal line in a row and praying.
He is definitely our fastest and cleverest player.
Bamford should have been on sooner.
Ominous signs.
A study of Brentford shows that they have given their head a shake and gone the Norwich route (i.e. wall up the goal )
Which this space.
On the appointment of Gary Monk the consensus on here was that he had to get us promoted before the parachute payments ended, therefore promotion by the end of two seasons, preferably in season one but two seasons nevertheless.
Ten games into the first season and doubts have started to appear, although I know some people were not happy with Monk’s appointment. Are we really being fair because we are not at the two points per game magical number ! What do we need to achieve to get to this figure.
The fastest possible way is to win the next 5 matches which would give us 30 points from 15 games.
Would people be happy at the halfway point (Xmas day) 23 matches on 46 points, we would need get 31 from a possible 39 points (13 more matches).
The more patient supporters would be happy to finish at the end of the season on 92 points, which would mean gaining 77 out of a possible 108 points (36 matches).
Before we all throw the baby out with the bath water, it is worth noting from Werdermouth’s excellent article that over the last 8 seasons 10 of the 16 promoted teams did NOT achieve 2 points per game, that’s 62.5% !
Just saying like.
Come on BORO.
As Werdermouth’s statistics show, Hull City finished 2nd in 2012/13 with only 79 points as did Stoke City in 2007/8. It all depends on the strength of the League and I think this season the standard is low. I reckon 85 points will be enough.
exmil
There is no need to panic, been a fan too long for that. It is only football after all.
It is fair to say we are making it harder for ourselves, they are not doing deliberately or rather not doing not doing it deliberately.
We do need to stitch a run together, we probably don’t need to end up with 92 points but it would be nice to closer to 2 points per game than drift along.
It will be, what it will be.
We play good football but only sporadically. We are waiting and hoping for the game when we play for all 90 minutes and not for just 20 minutes. We have been unlucky losing games because of our own avoidable (and by now predictable) comedic defending handing games and points to opponents. We are waiting to see our best eleven. We are hoping that when it clicks we will go on an unstoppable run.
We all know we have the best squad and the best players and that on paper they should at least dent the league if not smash it. We all know Monk is young and still learning but it was felt he had enough foundation experience already to be able to build on. At some point something has to click, the fans have waited and been patient for 10 games, indulged tactical whimsies balanced by refreshingly honest and open Press Conferences.
Everything is in place, its all there but now is the time to deliver because any more tactical mess ups, accommodating poor performers, slow starts or defensive lapses and the patience of the fans will be stretched to breaking point. Tomorrow is the time to wind it up, let it go and see how far it gets, no more dry runs because its now becoming like Samuel Beckett’s Waiting for Godot.
Just enjoying the season, me. Like Exmil said there is plenty of time to do the catch up. Also next season is OK but we need time. Nothing is built overnight.
And the best comment was from GHW – do you really think Orta and co will stay above us all season? Or Cardiff. There will be one surprise team every season like Huddersfield was last season, but I am more worried about Villa than Ipswich finishing above us this season.
So it is still early doors, ladies and gentlemen. Keep faith for two seasons, please.
Personally I still think we will do as Sir Gibbo said. Starting soon to smash I hope. Up the Boro!
Procrastination kills.
UTB
Spartak
I was waiting for that 🙂
Redcar Red
My understanding is that Godot is having a cruciate ligament operation so no point waiting for him, the current squad will just have to get on with it.
I think most of us believe the quality is there and they will come good. I posted before the Norwich game we need to be putting points on the board, OFB rightly pointed out we were on an 8 game unbeaten run, sadly ‘were’ becomes the operative word.
We are now on a one game losing streak. Win tomorrow and it is the start of a winning streak, draw and we haven’t won for two matches.
It is all about perspective, the more points we put on the board now eases the pressure but only slightly.
Plenty of points to play for, lets have three of them tomorrow.
Having listened to Garry Monk’s media conference yesterday, it sinks in now where we are compared to last season having only one reporter asking questions. Mind, what inane questions they were, the only sensible one being the situation regarding Rudi Gestede’s injury situation. I wonder if that reporter will suffer the same punishment as the Gazette reporters!
Well, regarding Gestede’s recovery what on earth is going on? How many weeks is it now since he had a problem with his dead leg? Are footballers getting soft? I mean to say Castleford scrum half had an appendix operation (admittedly keyhole surgery), but within sixteen days he was playing again last night; not only that he was man of the match having scored a try, kicked 5 goals from 5 attempts with the last being the most difficult with only 28 seconds remaining to force extra time, then kicks a drop goal from 35 metres with several St. Helens players converging on him to get Cas into the Grand Final at Old Trafford’s “Theatre of Dreams” next week for the first time in their history.
Well up to then it had been a disastrous sporting week for me:- Yorkshire CCC being humiliated by Essex and Boro losing to Norwich, but maybe things might be looking up. At the moment I’m watching my favourite golfer Lee Westwood playing superbly in the British Masters in Newcastle (an event he is actually hosting entailing a lot of organisation and hospitality). Maybe Boro will continue my sporting week on a high by “smashing” Brentford tomorrow and Lee wins the tournament on Sunday.
Mind, talking of “smashing” leagues, Cas have won 25 out of 30 matches to win the League Leaders Trophy by 10 points and 17 ahead of St.Helens. That’s what I would call “smashing the league”. And what about quick starts? Well, Cas scored a converted try in the first minute, and that’s because they started at such a high tempo. Something Boro must learn to do in my opinion.
Anyway for what it’s worth, Boro to win 2-0 (Howson and Bamford) attendance 21,878.
Congratulations on last night’s result, Ken. Let’s hope Cas win at Old Trafford, they definitely deserve it.
Thanks, about to watch Rhinos v Hull. Strange this one, Hull haven’t won there for 10 years but did beat them in the Cup. Meanwhile Cas have beaten Rhinos in 8 successive matches, but Hull are Cas’ bogey team. My heart says I’d rather us play Leeds then, but for the integrity of competition Hull would produce a better final.
Ken
I watched the Cas game last night, I worked across the road for a year so have some affection for the club. As Cas contrived to let the lead slip I wondered how your ticker was doing. All’s well that ends well.
Lets hope for the same tomorrow. I don’t know how many Norwich fans were at the Riverside for the match but we must have dipped below 24,000 home fans for the first time this season although Tuesday figures are normally lower than a Saturday.
I think we will get more than 21,878, I would guess close to 24,000 dependent on the number away fans.
Ian, I have to say Saints were the better team on the night but couldn’t kick conversions. But over the season Cas have been the outstanding team, so maybe justice was done.
Approx 500 Norwich fans were there…….
That was meant to be in answer to Ian Gill, above……!!
RR
Ref. ‘waiting’ -Who am I to disappoint you!
🙂
I believe there are folks around who would wait till the water was lapping off their chins before jumping from the sinking ship.
I dont think you’d find them at Bayern Munich.
So, would you sack GM?
Well here goes but who really knows:
Randolph
Christie, Fry (travesty if he is left out) Gibson & Friend
Adama, Leadbitter, Clayton & Johnson
Bamford & Assombalonga
Subs: Dimi, Fabio, Shotton, Howson, Baker, Fletcher & Braithwaite
Crowd: 23,577
2-0 Boro
We need a positive display and result if hopes are not going to fade. Anything akin to the displays against Preston/Norwich and the atmosphere could turn toxic.
Have paid my money to Brentford and will be watching via the live stream. Just hope the quality of the picture and fare on offer is far better than Tuesday.
Just booked flights to come back to UK in November to visit family and to meet our six month old great niece for the first time. Mrs P is over the moon as she has been itching to give Evie a cuddle.
Any advice on how I explain that it is pure coincidence that we have two home matches (Birmingham & Derby) whilst we are on Teesside?
Or do I confess that I had the fixture list available when researching flights?
CoB 😎😉
KP
Sit down supposedly very randomly looking through Boro websites and declare with a surprised quizzical look “what are those dates we are over in the Boro again”?
Mrs K P then responds with the exact dates that you had “conveniently” forgotten to which you reply “well fancy that, what are the odds of Boro having two home games just then”. Then offer to make her a cuppa and move the conversation along quickly. With a bit of luck she might just buy it!
RR
Sounds good to me but will you visit if I am hospitalised and provide updates on my condition to the Diasboro!
Let’s hope they don’t change the fixture dates for sky or the Caribbean cup or whatever it’s called !
That’s me chewing my finger nails for the next few weeks! 😎😉
Plato
10 games a season does not make & who knows GM & the Boro might make good next season. Still, its an executive decision & iunfortunately my faith, unlike Jarrko’s, in SG to make the best decision has been erroded due to too many errors of judgement IMHO.
Sparta
No one wishes that the stats are rubbish more than me.
But, they encompass an awful lot of teams over an awful lot of seasons.
They cut out the what ifs and “they were unlucky” leaving just the facts.
As an added pain all the teams who went up singing had had a semi serious blip.
So that has to be added in to the mix.
I mean, what if we fail to win today?
Oops! Sorry, the math have just gone ballistic
I’m feeling a little let down and somewhat jilted by Boro so in reality I think tomorrow ia an absolute nightmare of a game to predict, after all Boro are involved.
Brentford seem tight at the back now so will Boro start off sleep walking and have to be slapped awake by an early goal after wandering around like a sleep deprived teenager?
Brentford haven’t lost for a couple of games, Boro are back to their predictably unpredictable best.
A crowd of 22,374 gnashing their teeth and making a tense I told you so atmosphere. Boro 1- 1 Brentford.
I hope Boro can take the game by the scruff of the neck from the off, if they do we’ll win but….
UTB,
John
I mentioned before the Norwich game that fierce concentration is one of the key elements needed for a promotion push, and that we had lacked it for some of the goals conceded.
I don’t think Dael Fry was responsible for the Norwich goal, whoever should have been marking their scorer allowed the guy to have a free run towards our penalty area, and Ben couldn’t get out to him quickly enough to block the shot which he had time to line up and place.
In the second half, two players were trying to get the ball off Jerome just outside the penalty area, a moment later he plays and receives a simple return pass and is running in free on goal with only Randolph to beat. Naive. Can’t happen.
By contrast, Norwich only allowed the one free header for Britt. Unfortunately, you pay the big money to get the player who will convert those, and he couldn’t manage it on this occasion. Five goals in ten games is very good, but he has only scored in three of the matches and there have been a few serious misses now.
Still, I think Adama, Britt and Marvin Johnson are GM’s preferred pace/power/overwhelm combination, and so he should stick with it for Brentford and give it a chance to work. Adama looks hungry. As Martin Braithwaite gets up to speed perhaps he can deliver a bit more potency than Lewis Baker in the number 10 role. We should see the goals come…
If that doesn’t work, the case for PB to be given a run gathers strength. Otherwise we may find him joining Leeds, Wolves or similar in January.
I remember when we had a centre forward not a striker,
Striker conveys to me that a forward is on strike, which just about sums up our non-scoring forwards.
Another quality piece from Werder, consistency that Boro can only dream of😉.
I must admit that I’m in the “marathon not a sprint ” camp but can totally see where others may have concerns at our points haul so far. And what is my justification for this glass half full (unusually for me) opinion I hear you cry(maybe)! Well in a nutshell I think we have by far the best first team squad in the league and when, hopefully not if, they start to put it all together on a consistent basis the points will start to rack up and we’ll climb up the table.
Of course I could be totally wrong and we are stuck mid table treading water, which for the outlay on new players would be a right kick in the slats for all Boro fans.
So onto tomorrow. I’m looking forward to seeing Braithwaite in action for the first time. Baker, if he starts, needs to put in a decent display as he needs to do more to convince me he’s better than we already have. Chelsea projects aren’t the way forward for me. Anyway back to the glass, positively overflowing, Boro 3-0!
I honestly don’t see the justification for stating Boro have the best first team squad in the Championship. The transfer fees we have paid for players is no criterion for their status. Unless one has seen every match of our rivals I don’t know how such a statement can be proved one way or another.
An opinion Ken. Nothing more nothing less.
FAA
I couldn’t agree more that we have the strongest squad in the league. Unfortunately and frustratingly they are not displaying it on the pitch.
Let’s hope that your view that it will all start to come together and we will climb the table proves correct.
The jury remains divided at this point and tomorrow may be a pivotal moment one way or the other.
And…….breathe.
Let’s have a little reality check here. Just because the chairman said he would put together a team to “smash” the Championship, doesn’t mean that he has.
With the possible exception of Assombalonga how many top flight players have been signed? Christie and Howson from this league and Johnson from Oxford may well be fine players but not exactly marquee signings, the boy from West Ham seems to be another “project” and Braithwaite is unknown in English football.
Fabio remains a defensive liability and Friend must be having a torrid time in training, or is carrying an injury if he can’t displace him.
We seem to have become victims of our own expectations. The manager has the basic ingredients of a promotion/play off squad but surely needs a bit more time yet. The last thing he needs is for negativity from the terraces.
The team will lose games at home this season, Norwich is one out of the way. The run of the ball and silly mistakes being punished, are holding us back at the moment. Brentford will come for a point tomorrow so the last thing they need to be given is a goal start. Therefore concentration from the off must be drilled into the starting eleven.
I fully expect three points tomorrow, but that won’t mean everything is rosy, it’s going to be a long hard season and the biggest and best squads should prevail. With the added boost of some creativity in January I believe promotion will be achieved ( hopefully without the play off route).
In the meantime it’s up to the manager along with a little help from the football gods to get them up and running. After all, with a bit of, could’ve, should’ve, would’ve, we may have been sitting pretty right now.
Come On Boro
Some fans writing on the Gazette forum actually think we have been lucky to accumulate the points we have so far, citing for example Sheffield United had a perfect goal disallowed, Preston and Fulham were very unlucky not to have beaten us, and that Boro’s winning goal against QPR should have been refused because the ball was out of play beforehand. That’s 6 points luckily obtained; I’m not saying I agree with them, but just imagine if they were correct and we only had 9 points, we’d be only 3 points better off than Sunderland. Wouldn’t bear thinking about.
Its a sing-a-long with GM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMfxQq1GCMg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
🙂
GHW I refer you to the answer I gave Plato earlier.
GM needs more than bash the door down strategy but I’m afraid he doesn’t have it in the Boro locker or even in his head. We will clunk along till Xmas. Then, either success or change should be upon us. If no top six place then I would recommend change
Not exactly a Yes or No then.
As things stand, would you sack him now?
Certainly not I!
Blooming Heck Spartak, I didn’t even see your lips move!
No!
After a slow start looks like Fulham are getting their act together now , we need to do the same and quick
Watched the Norwich game last night.
And based on that one, we have some major problems, I watched a team go through the motions,yes nice knocking it about,everyone getting a kick.but saw no intensity,no drive,no ambition, no aggression,just having a day out at the park.
This Johnson on the wing,supposed to be quick,never once took the fullback on and go past him.noone driving to the box in support ,square,square,square, if the opposition is pushing you wide, go through the middle then,get Baker higher occupieing the two centrebacks, Howson get higher and go through them, unbelevable,
Monk ,I’m not convinced, if he can’t coach or motivate get him out now.
Well bloggers all this talk about GM and rumblings (very minor ones)
Perhaps Steve Gibson is thinking the same and that we should be smashing this league and also thinking that Carlo Ancelloti is available !
OFB
When was the last time Boro hired a top well known manager.?
Just askin like
GHW
It would be ‘Yes’, but who to replace him with Big Nige?
Its taken you all 10 games to wake up? This was evident from the first game and so far nothing ahs improved. If we keep doing the same thing then we will get the same result. Although a bit early my spread sheet shows us missing out on he play-offs but escaping relegation – so no chance of smashing the league top or bottom.
I’m really hoping for big win today against bottom feeder Brentford… we really need it!!
No prediction from me today, just hoping for a win infront of another reduced crowd. No streaming either as I will slpodging around Toulouse in the rain.
As for all the gelling in excuses, remember Leeds sold Wood for 15mil, brought in Orta, remember him, a new Coach and 16 new players. I think they sit third.
I would also expect some type of changes if we are out of the top six at Xmas.
I’m hopeful of a Boro win today as I think we will start with Braithwaite and he will make a big difference. Headline of ‘Bouncing Boro bash Bee’s ‘ anyone?
Braithwaite Beedazzles Brentford?
Elsewhere I see Neil Redfearn has been suggesting that Monk has brought his Leeds failings to Boro by keeping things too defensive and not releasing the handbrake. I’m assuming that Mr Redfearn never watched AK’s defensive strategy if he thinks Garry Monk is defensive. Our current defence is a poor imitation of keeping things tight.
Beautiful
A string of not-necessarily-connected, some might say random, thoughts……(as I wait for the porridge):
How a team, or squad, looks on paper is a matter of opinion. How it does on the field is fact.
I suppose it you had what looks like a really good squad, but four or five really key players suffered long term injuries, that might very well skew results. However Boro have really only had Braithwaite (who’d only played one game at the time and could hardly be said at that time to be “key”, and anyway he is now back), Ayala (whose injury problems are legendary and who wouldn’t be in the first XI anyway) and Gestede (“You may very well think so, but I couldn’t possibly comment”) injured, so clearly injury problems are not any sort of reason or excuse to be used. Anyway, we are told we have a depth of squad that other Championship clubs would envy.
Dael Fry has made a couple of big howlers (and after the one which came before Norwich’s first goal, he laid a pass to Gibson which almost led to disaster as well). But, in general, he has played really well and has looked the better of the CB’s so far. Gibson has not looked as good this season as last which is a bit of a surprise, but the drop-off in form has not been “cliff-edge” and he will come back, I have no doubt. The two of them look to be our best combination (though I have not seen Shotton yet). Fry will obviously improve greatly from here, as he is only starting his career, which I strongly suspect will be on an upward trajectory. Both Gibson and Fry (in his case, already) are good by Championship standards.
Fry’s mistakes – are they any worse or more damaging to results than a header straight at the keeper from a few yards out? Missed chances up front lose goals, and points, as well. A couple of people who have been/are in the professional game have made the point to me that Britt scores goals in clumps. One today, maybe two next week, then nothing for four weeks, then another couple etc. But at the end of the season he will probably score 20 goals unless not playing regularly. It would be good to have TWO people in the team who present a real goal threat, not rely on one.
We may have possession but we need to have more shots on goal and we need to make the opposition keeper work. If you don’t buy a ticket for the lottery, you can’t win it. Get the ball into the opposition’s penalty area.
Three months ago many thought Traore would never make it as a footballer, “he’s quick but has no football brain and you can’t teach him that”, and we should take any offer for him that comes along. That, now, may be changing. But I’d like to see him running at the opposition from the middle of the field and into their penalty area. Free kicks, penalties, opposition cards will flow from the fouls used to stop him and, you never know, he might score or tee someone else up. Of course to do that, we need other people in the box, too.
Baker may turn out to be a good player but he should do simple things as well as flicks etc, and hopefully he will improve.
Maybe Bamford should get a few games up front or at No 10, not just one game, or played wide. (I realise if that question is put too frequently in Press Conferences, there may be more journalists “banned”). We know he can score goals from the front as he has already done it for us in this league in the past. It’s not as if he has aged 10 years since then, or that football has totally changed.
Randolph has acquitted himself well. His kicking is about as good as mine (which doesn’t say much) but he saves shots on goal and appears to have good hands. His signing has been a “plus”.
Johnson may not have had his best game against Norwich (which of our players did?) but I think he looks a good signing, too, and relatively cheap.
Howson underwhelmed me in his early performances but he is picking up now. I hope that continues because I have heard people say he was as good as anyone in this league in his position over the last couple of years. We need consistently good performers, to perform.
Christie looks good going forward. Not absolutely convinced about him as a defender, though. The same could be said about Fabio. I thought the comment in an earlier post (I won’t spend time identifying the author just now…..sorry, whoever it was) about Friend’s presumed performances in training was a good one – he can’t be impressing if he can’t oust Fabio from the team! Actually George is not having a good time of late. Maybe the loss of form/injuries in the last season have not yet completely cleared up? I hope he can get back what he had, because clearly he was a top Championship performer when last in this league (and that was only 16 months ago).
We are notoriously poor starters. I assume other teams and coaches have noted that. So what are we doing about it? I mean, it’s not as if we are looking for the cure for the Common Cold or the method to make gold from base metal. Is it beyond the power of our coaches to get the players appropriately geed up – hold on there, Adama, I didn’t mean you! – and warmed up to start with a bang rather than a whimper? Much easier to win games if we are not behind at an early stage, you know. Actually, admittedly in a different (amateur) sport and at far from Premier League level, I could always gee MYSELF up, so why can’t our players do the same for themselves?
Imagine it. Surgeon makes a complete Horlicks of an incision and cuts out the wrong organ on the operating table, or a barrister opens up a line of questions showing his client was aware of facts previously unknown to the Prosecution, which must inevitably go wrong when the defendant is cross-examined in five minutes time….. “Sorry chaps! I just couldn’t gee myself up for it. I will be better when sewing him up (or in my final speech). There’s always next week!.”
And again, that canard, “we need time to gel”. As if all the other teams in the league have been gently lowered down from “Player Heaven”, fully formed, all fit and with forty games played together before the league season begins! Just about every season, just about every team needs time to gel. That is what pre-season is for. Why does it take longer for us to “gel” than others? Or is that Boronoia?
And finally, “they came to do a job on us”. About as good an excuse as a car thief saying it wasn’t his fault, the Aston Martin looked so inviting, especially in that colour, that he couldn’t stop himself. Teams are supposed to make it difficult for their opponents. It’s an essential part of the game. Are we expecting opponents to lob balls into their own 6 yard box, to test out the ability of their keeper to head it clear, or to line up against free kicks with all their backs to the ball? Boxers try to cover up, they get on their toes, they try to evade punches. We don’t expect them to stand still in the centre of the ring with their hands behind their back, hanging out their chin for their opponent to measure out a nice upper cut or a crashing left hook. It is our coaches’ job to have plans in place to counter the tactics of the opposition. Maybe they’ve got a whole brochure or maybe an iPad full of those tactics because, in other games, you will see the coach leafing through the booklet or pointing at the screen, pointing things out to the substitutes before they come on the field. I’d like to think it isn’t just informing the players that his team mates are playing in red and that we are kicking “that way”.
(Takes out a match. Lights the squib, holds for a few seconds, then throws into the crowded market place. Let’s see what happens. Hee, hee!).**
** A confession. I broke off in the middle to eat the porridge. It wasn’t too hot, it wasn’t too cold. It was just right, Goldilocks.
FD
Great Post and enjoyed whilst eating a banana !
Diet looms !
Brilliant
Well said, Dormo. I think you put into words what most of us are thinking. It shouldn’t take a genius to sort it out though, only a good coach or manager.
And an assistant coz rarely does anyone have the full skill set.
Good point! What a novel idea. I wonder why nobody has mentioned that before. Oh….wait….!
The phrase “gardening leave” comes to mind.
Hang on a minute! The Villans have been really crap lately or at least until the last 3 or 4 games. Wots changed? A certain someone from a certain somewhere was seen in the vicinity of the Villa bench.
Wonder who that could be?
Just speculating like.
But that certain someone is under contract to Boro
Well, my internet has passed a late fitness test so will be listening.
One benefit of not accessing Diasboro for a good part of the day is coming back and seeing how the discussions have progressed. The good thing is they are discussions not diatribe.
What I do think is that if we are still clunky and off the pace by Xmas I don’t expect Uncle Steve to be opening his wallet for Monk in January.
A win today is essential, Werder to make the difference.
Sorry Werder seem to have had another glitch with the ipad and have posted under mu full name in error. I shall try and post again and you can delete the one in my name.
Ian
Do you think GM will introduce Werder from the off or use him as an impact sub when we are chasing the game! 😎🤣
Ian,
Quite right, GM needs to get his expensively assembled talent turned into a team and get them working as a unit.
I know about net spend, and on the books and all that, and we haven’t really spent that much but we did spend the money anyway. Maybe there is a catalyst in the form a coach or player who will make it tick but Boro should be better than they are as they are now.
Football is supposed to be a simple game but we, that is Boro, do seem to make it complicated for ourselves. As for teams ‘parking the bus’ they’ve done it to us before or haven’t we learnt anything over the last few seasons in the Championship? The thought of someone like Traore running into a packed penalty area must terrify opposition teams/managers.
Then there are quality fee-kicks and corners but that is another debate and we do have a long throw-in man now.
I am now ready for my Saturday afternoon torture.
UTB,
John
Right that’s now nicely set-up for in to ghost in at the back post like Martin Peters.
UTB,
John
Apologies … for Ian to ghost in…
UTB,
John
Ian must have ballooned it over the bar.
UTB,
John
On another topic, The Hairy Bikers have just produced what I think they meant to be a Parmo on TV (well, they used the P word a few times). It wouldn’t be recognised on Teesside. Cooked in the oven, laid on top of tomatoes, no bechamel sauce, using mozzarella cheese…….the only thing remotely authentic was breadcrumbs and the chips (and, being TV, they had to be triple cooked!).. Anyway, what happened to using pork?
And this comes from me, who famously has NEVER eaten a Parmo. Cordon Bleu clearly doesn’t get far north of Peterlee.
Oops, sorry Dormo, have tried parmos, afraid not my cup of tea. I’ll stick to frango piri piri cos I do like chicken.
That’s it – paid me 5 quid and settling down to nail biting mediocre match with no commentary and hopefully a couple of Boro goals.
COB
Allan
You could listen to the BBC Radio Tees commentary whilst you watch the match as long as the stream does not get too far out of synch with the commentary at which point i tend to turn the commentary off.
I ll give it a go just to improve the atmosphere
Forever Dormo
Don’t be a prat! I’ve been on about employin an Assistant Manager for sometime. And I know all about Aggers on gardenin leave coz I read EVERY post on this blog- maybees you could do the same and you wouldn’f miss out.
Happy days
🙂
I appreciate that irony may not come out well in a short post. I was aware people on here have referred to the post of assistant manager, which is why I added “Oh….wait…!”.
Anyway, I understand as much time can easily be spent on the golf course as in the garden, during “Leave”.
Let’s hope we get three points. I hope Werder is our good luck charm.
Sneaked in there Dormo well done.. hope we are that quick this afternoon!!
The delay on Tuesday night made it impossible to listen to the Boro commentary and watch iFollow. It was miles behind.
Anyway, I’m all signed up or Brentford iFollow. The game starts at midnight Sydney time and then at 2.00am the clocks go forward an hour which will make it a tough night. One bit of good news came in from iFollow. They told me that they’ve signed a deal with BeIn in Australia for Championship and Carabao Cup games. Thus, anything available in the UK will be available here.
I think that we might see Braithwaite get a go. Perhaps in place of Baker. Also, I wonder if, playing at home, Monk will risk a 4-1-3-2 which would allow Bamford and Assombalonga to genuinely play as a twin spearhead with Traore, Braithwaite and Johnson behind them. Bit of a risk but could work if we get all the possession. Alternative would be to rest one of Traore or Johnson to be an impact sub.
Its a game that we need to win. lets hope for a 2-0.
UTB
Sorry I missed the ton, I was out getting a new extender for my Wifi so I can catch the commentary anywhere in the house.
So looks like the same approach of batter the door down will be rolled out again.
No Leadbiter so where’s the driving force coming from?
Hopefully someone has enthused the lads and they get off to a flying start.
What’s the odds Boro score in the first ten minutes? My daft quids on Braithwaite- just a big fat guess like!
UTB
Well Dael dropped and Shotton starts. Lets hope the ex Brummie proves us all wrong and has a blinder. Bit harsh on Dael perhaps as I could list half a dozen that would warrant the same treatment.
Hopefully Braithwaite is fully fit and raring to go after not being rushed back. Downing seems to be excluded along with Grant, not convinced this side doesn’t need wise old heads but lets hope GM is proved right. It would be nice if today we dont have to come back and start as we mean to go on.
Three aspects of the team selection that in my humble view are wrong:-
1. Very poor decision to drop Fry. I don’t think he deserved to be dropped and I hope it doesn’t dent his confidence at a crucial point in his development. Moreover, Gibson has been dodgy so far this season and pairing him with a new partner must be a risk.
2. I agree with Spartak that the team needs Leadbitter to give it some drive and Howson should have made way for him.
3. Again Downing is not in the match day squad. What has he done to be ignored by Monk? Surely he is a better option on the bench than Baker and even maybe a better option in the team than Johnson. Bizarre.
Cant really complain about the line up, good to see more of an attacker in the No 10 role. Paddy will be miffed it wasn’t him
Bit unlucky fro Fry, might have preferred Friend at left back.
More like a 4231 with people in preferred positions.
Boroexile
I agree entirely with points 1 & 2 on which I myself have commented previously in a similar vein.
As far as 3 is concerned, given the game time he has been given this season he has not set the world alight but even I would have thought that if you are going to include him in your squad that he would at least make the bench.
Gutted for young Dael. I think it is poor man management. By all means bollock in private but support in public should be the mantra.
As you say, let’s hope that an unfamiliar back line does not come back and sting us.
COB
Boro have several failings that date back for years.
Spanning decades and several managers, we don’t have a reliable, consistent goal scorer. The jury is still out but Assambalonga well well be our Messiah. Time will tell but let’s hope.
Another stubborn weakness is being slow starters in games. This was a frequent failing during AK’s tenure and (I can’t recall) may well date back to Mogga and others. Far too often, and it’s possibly the majority of games, Boro are slow, lack intensity and look disinterested for the opening of games. I say ‘opening’ because the sluggishness most commonly lasts for the first 15-30 minutes but it does sometimes last into the second half. This failing is undermining the start to Monk’s Boro career.
If Britt does prove to finally be the solution to our lack of scoring prowess then I pray that Monk can overcome our slow starts. Brentford would be good.
Nikeboro
It gets worse, losing 1-0.
Phoned up my internet provider demanding they disconnect so I don’t have to listen. Useless, cant do anything until Monday.
I also blame MFC because they have solved my early season connection problem.
Bring back Strachan.
Sad to hear a serious injury for Henry for the Bees, hope it isn’t too bad.
This is now a serious problem. We may go on to win the game but really this is a team with a manager to smash the league? Serious motivational issues for millionaire footballers.
Someone mayb gettin a P45 as a very early Xmas prezzie!
This slow starting threatens to become a psychological barrier – if it isn’t already. You sense that players are now coming out nervous. Especially if we lose again, the risk is that that apprehensiveness could become permanent.
Shocking first half shambles. Forget promotion. Start worrying about the other end of the table.
Agree.
I said after the Preston game that there were fundamental problems with this team in that they lacked intensity and cohesion.
Nothing has changed they have no shape or organisation and there does not appear to be anyone on the pitch that can take charge and address the issues.
So far a complete shambles,
I’ve never seen such a bad performance……. worst performance of the league so far.
The only way were going to smash the league is as we fall through the trap door at the bottom.
I don’t get the feel that the players fully believe in GM nor that they are convinced by his formation and tactics – whatever they are.
When AK came, within a few weeks everybody knew what his formation was and, as it brought quick improvement and results, and it was obvious that the squad had bought in. For the first couple of years, the Boro squad would have walked on fire for AK.
I get nothing like that feel currently. Quick improvement and hopefully results are crucial for a new manager to win over the players and for them to be committed to the management and, in particular, to their way of playing. Unfortunately for GM, the performances and results have been patchy.
Worse, there is no sign that he knows his best XI and best formation and the chopping and changing is not helping at all. Yes, he is right to try different setups and selections to find out what works but we are a quarter of the way into the season now – make your mind up time.
Good, bad or indifferent it’s time to commit and bed down a particular way of playing. As far as possible, the same 11 players need to play to the same tactics for several games until the setup is imprinted and becomes second nature.
Listening is bad, goodness knows what it is like to watch.
Was Adama subbed or lost his way getting back to the dressing room.?
Nikeboro
Mogga actually said he sent his team out to sit back for half an hour and see what the opposition did.
Fletcher on for Traore and now 4-4-2. Why Fletcher and not Bamford?
The only time the Bees have won at Middlesbrough was March 1938.
Grief! Just said the same om commentary.
I am pizzed off.
From 5 minutes there was only one team in it.
Lethargic premadonnas.
Steve , this is what you could have got for 40m.
The whole of the Cardiff team ( with change)
The whole of the wolves team (with a little bit of change)
All the Leeds team ( with a lot of change)
5 x Brentford teams with change and probably their manager thrown in.
We were second best to a team of journey men and were lucky to get a draw.
Is it the team or is it the manager good luck to the Gazette on their search for a 3-2-1.
I am struggling to think of any player that had a good game.
I am really annoyed and probably not the only one.
Well after that appalling display I have to seriously question if I wish to continue to pay my 6 euros to watch. The stream was patchy and I am finding it difficult to put into words how to sum up the team performance it was that bad.
We should not let the fact that we scored two goals, came back from behind and scraped a point override the seriousness of the situation. This shambles cannot be allowed to continue. I would love to be a fly on the wall of SG’s office when they dissect today and what has gone on previously.
Results have again gone for us and we remain in touch of the promotion/play off spots but we look more like a team heading the other way. This is more akin to Strachan and Mogga than to AK and not in a good way.
Shotton and not Fry or Ayala why? Please explain because I saw nothing in his performance that filled me with any confidence. The back line looked shakier than ever.
I will need to think long and hard about attending the Riverside when I return in November if the team and GM are going to continue serving up this load of dross.
I love my team but that really was at the top of the typical boro performances of the worst kind.
Very disillusioned here in Spain after what I thought was going to be an exciting season with the added benefit of being able to watch each week – a great let down so far.
I think RR is going to have great difficulty in finding real positives from that display.
Couldn’t agree more.
Defenetly reminded me of the dark days.
Absolutely no creativity.
Good teams find away through.
We are not a good team.
Feel sorry for Steve as I don’t see 40m of talent.
Not even worth making a joke, it is getting serious.
Looking forward to AV putting his spin on this performance.
Weekend ruined
Typical Boro
Despite many a Shotton goal it’s plane to see Boro and Ryan air looking very fuel-lish right now. Take off was too late and we need more on the wing.
But Christie, Heathrows better than Barragan. That’s a plus.
Simon,
I expected Traore to be powering down the runway but I think he forgot to check in.
Boro hit severe turbulance and we all braced ourselves, I certainly had my head between my legs in the last 10 minutes.
Oh how I wanted the captain (Grant) to tell me that there was nothing to worry about and everything was under control.
After bracing for an emergency landing I chucked up in the sick bag.
In flight entertainment was crap just repeats of Boro arriving late at Wembley.
I fell asleep and dreamed about previous games with the bees.
Goals from Nugent, Stuani, Kike, Tomlin.
We have hit head wind and need to change direction or I can see a crash landing ahead.
An new pilot may be needed, brakes off and chocks away.
I thought we had dumped all the excess baggade In the transfer window.
Regarding the slow starts :
Whoever is responsible for team motivation needs a size 10 up their nether regions + their salary withheld until a noticable change is apparent.
Well that was extremely poor fare, we look to be going backwards as a team, can somebody tell me how Ryan shotton is a better option than Dael Fry. We are giving away poor goals and we are very disjointed. We made Brentford look like world beaters. Is this team better than the one that went up under AK I doubt it. Having an expensive forward line is all well an good but we have to provide them with service. Promotion looks a bit of a pipe dream at the moment.
Well that was a disjointed, lacklustre and downright pathetic performance. I stand by my best squad statement, but that performance shows what happens in this league if you don’t match the opposition for effort, work rate and play as a group of individuals.
Brentford really were swarming round the park like bees on steroids, making our sooooo pedestrian pace look even more worrying. They pressed us at every opportunity cutting down the pass options, and breaking at pace when the had the chance. Of which there were many!
Traore being subbed was a strange one for me because Johnson was by far and away the very worst of a very bad bunch. He looked so out of his depth, his passing was appalling, offered nothing defensively and looked like we’d plucked him from Marske United never mind Oxford United. No offence Seasiders, my parents have lived there for 40 odd years.
Overall we got a point we scarcely deserved but that could have been a totally undeserved 3, if the once again abject officials had done their jobs and awarded a penalty for what looked like a clear trip on Christie. I stand to be corrected on that one.
Throughout the game once again we were outfought by a team who put the hard yards and effort in, where we didn’t, which is unacceptable in my view.
First view of Braithwaite and there is definitely a player in there.
Monk has got a lot to ponder over the next couple of weeks but one thing he shouldn’t be pondering about is whether to play Howson in front of Grant. The simple answer in my view is a resounding NO!!
Couldn’t even have a couple of pre match pints as I’m on antibiotics so it was a proper miserable day all round.
It will be interesting to hear Monks comments as he normally talks about incremental improvements. Not seeing it myself Gary. However I am not a profesional, just somebody who has watched and played for 45 years, yes still playing vets.
The problem as I see it is that the majority of our forwards are more comfortable playing as the main number 9.
Braithwaite, assombalonga, Bamford, Fletcher. Gestede.
Not much real creativity and having to play the number 9’s out of position to give them game time.
Sell two of them in January and you have ‘re- balanced the team and made some money.
Just being sensible like
After selling two of our excess number 9’s please buy a creative player. Every champ team seems to have one.
RR – good luck with your report on this one.
I don’t envy you but I’m sure you will give more than the team did
I have the fortune not to get the streams but listening to commentary, seeing the odd game and reading comments from people who have seen much more of the team this year I get the feeling of a squad on the way to the same confusion as in the latter days of Mogga.
Shape uncertain, defenders uncertain, selections uncertain, starting games uncertain.
Luckily we have Barnsley near the foot of the table away next in the middle of October, I am trying to remember what happened the last time when a confused Boro went to Barnsley around this time of the season…..
Just saying like.
No, Gibbo will give the manager time as usual.
I’m lost for words. Poor Werder. What a game to see live.
What a dismal display today and the responsibility for it lies with Monk. Playing Shotton (who was very poor) in place of Fry was unjustified and made the defence look worse than in previous games, leaving Leadbitter out meant yet again no leadership or drive from midfield and surely Downing would have offered more than Johnson (who was awful) on the left.
Selection apart, why did the team show no cohesion, no pattern of play, no urgency, no physical bite, no commitment and no visible desire? They were disappointing at Fulham which I thought might be a wake up call, poor against Norwich and just plain terrible today. So in a week performances have gone from very average to abysmal.
We can forget all the hype about having the best squad in the division and the argument that we can still make promotion despite the slow start. The team is currently not good enough and if things continue as they are we will be lucky to stay in the division rather then climb out of it.
So what has Monk been doing with the players that resulted in what we saw today? Clearly nothing that has had any positive impact on what they do on the pitch and in fact it seems the reverse. They have got worse since last weekend.
It is his job to turn out a motivated, organised, focused team with a clear game plan understood by every player. He has had plenty of time to get to that point and he can have no excuses for what he and his team delivered today.
He has a bit of time now with the international break to sort out the mess of his own making. Whether he is capable of doing it must be open to question. I’m not sure he is.
Totally agree with Boroexile though some may suggest ‘Don’t Panic’.
We’re 25% of the season gone now & the stats people will say we’re behind expectations.
We’ve got to learn from last seasons mistakes which we all saw coming, but so many were reluctant to admit too.
After last season’s impotent PL debacle, SG’s push for more attacking prowess always made it likely that the defence would not be as tight. However it has become so porous – at times shambolic – that it is worrying. More worrying is that there are no signs of improvement or lessons being learned.
Even more worrying is that, despite sacrificing defensive numbers to gain more creative and attacking force, we’re seeing the downside with little or no upside. The massed defensive solidity of the AK era has gone but, by way of compensation, we’re rarely getting no more cohesion or flair in midfield nor much forward penetration.
Well after witnessing today’s display I’m not sure what to say but hopefully it wasn’t down to my presence – luckily Redcar Red has just filed his match report so he can say it much better…
https://diasboro.club/2017/09/28/championship-boro-v-brentford/#MatchReport
I can only echo what other fans have already said. That was dire. I was so comatose by how bad we were even the goals we scored seemed surreal and out of context.
For me any good team is made up of good partnerships. A solid centre back pairing, similarly central midfield, up front and on either side. Think of nsue and adomah. Clayton, leadbitter. Ayala and Gibson. At the moment due to wholesale changes in personnel and formation they look like complete strangers. Coupling that with the fact some players blatantly aren’t good enough or alternatively have come for an easy pay day then we have serious problems.
The annoying thing is this squad is stronger than the team that got us promoted last time, but when players like forshaw and Ayala aren’t even in the squad and shotton and howson are in the team and then Ashley ‘7 million???’ fletcher gets on in front of bamford for me there are serious concerns and questions over the managers judgement.
And why sign 25 forwards and only play with one of them, until you go a goal down and then to hell with the shape let’s throw them all on?
I’ve scratched my head so much I’ve started to bleed!
Just read RR’s match report and it pretty much sums it up and agrees with the regulars that I was with as the worst Boro performance since the one at Barnsley that saw Mogga given the bullet.
That first half was clueless and Boro played like eleven men randomly picked from a school playground – the second half wasn’t much better and Boro somehow managed to score thanks to some bad defending by Brentford at two of our set-pieces.
A thoroughly undeserved point and the idea that Boro are going to gel at some point looks a very remote possibility – time for a re-assessment in the international break as our season is now in danger of imploding if we don’t start playing as a team rather than eleven individuals. We’ve gone backwards in the last month and there’s no way we should consider ourselves as promotion contenders until we’ve worked out how to play as a team.
This is general because I was lucky to miss watching the match but one thing I can say is that the formation you play shouldn’t matter, the key thing is people understanding their roles and being comfortable.
One of the myths is that AK was ultra defensive, the reality was probably not quite so stark.
4231 is about a defence where the full backs get forward, two midfielders who shield and prompt plus four attackers.
Like any formation it works as a unit, it doesn’t matter what you choose to play, just play that way. You can have a plan B but the players need to be comfortable.
AK being defensive is a red herring, possibly he expected too much from his players, certainly he didn’t have the quality of players to play the way he expected. Add his character flaws and you have a problem.
What is all this about?
It appears we do not look like a coherent unit.
A hesitation there, a misplaced pass there and suddenly it looks clunky. The squad have not suddenly become bad players bereft of ability. The manager hasn’t suddenly become a fool. A couple of percentage points drop off individually can lead to a huge collective mishap.
If there is no clarity the coming break will not help but confuse issues.
Barnsley away looms, beware the ides of October.
So early in the season and Boro have lost their way.
I can’t understand the manager and his tinkering and meddling at all. We have few injuries, a wealth of players and talent but no settled team. Why?
Do players know their role, job or responsibilities?
Do we have a plan, any plan?
Do the management know what the players strengths are?
GM is, or was, supposed to be an up and coming young manager. All I can say is prove it? The team is not being managed from what I can see and hear at distance.
We will need a road to Damascus level of experience to turn this into a promotion year. As I wrote earlier as a collective of talent we are better than where we are but I fear that we do not have someone who can mould the team and make it work as a cohesive unit.
Perhaps job descriptions would be a start. And that includes the manager.
UTB,
John
RR, great horror story! Sad thing is that it is all true.
I didn’t want Monk in the first place so maybe I am biased but what a mess he has made of what is still a talented bunch of players and I don’t think he is capable of fixing the many serious problems on show today.
If, after the time he has to work on them in the international break, he doesn’t generate a massive improvement in performance and if the results at Barnsley and at home to Cardiff are poor then SG has to sack him. There can be no time for prevarication or indecision or the season will be a car crash.
Whether SG would bite the bullet is debatable bearing in mind the poor decisions he has made over the last couple of years but I’m sure he would be less than happy to see the club finish towards the bottom of the Championship or worse……….
I really can’t believe that we are where we are
I really can’t believe where we are at the moment. I am not sure a change of manager will help right now although from reading the excellent report (as always) from R R then perhaps that is a possibility.
Smashing the league will haunt SG but hey ho “it is what it is”!
I think AK is available.
One thing RR, Tuesday wasn’t too bad in my opinion – we played pretty well at times and just couldn’t break them down. Today was horrendous; after we conceded in the first half we seemed to be waiting for half time to come. Where was the leadership? Where was the drive? I’ll echo the people who are saying we look like a bunch of players, rather than a team.
Having said all that, there’s a long way to go. And I can’t believe jettisoning the manager anytime soon would improve our cohesion – so we probably have to hang on and hope it improves.
One ;
Can we agree when you go out and spend a lot of money for players presumably you are bringing in better than you already have , ( not. In this case)
Two;
When AK came in he improved players like Ayalla, Gibson,Friend, Clayton,Adhomma, he did that by not putting them in an uncomfortable situation, he new their strengths and weaknesses , so he played a system for their and the teams advantage, everyone new their roll.and they became consistant.
The Premiership was a bridge too far,because the other clubs had years on us,as far as recruitment and we just couldn’t complete.
Back to today , are these players talented but just don’t have the mental ability to sustain a winning attitude,or the manager just has them confused, (Mogga at Celtic)
What I see is, a manager who is not improving these players because that’s what he talks about, but someone who is making them worse.
BP, how much cohesion is Monk generating now? Hang on and hope is not a strategy or a plan to fix what is clearly broken.
All mimsy were the borogoves …….
Oh Dear! Don’t be so intense my fellow sufferers. Are we really surprised? This is the Boro after all.
After a good nights sleep I can see clearly now.
Looking at the progress so far it is not bad for a team lying 11th. Had we not dropped the 5 home points we would have been 3rd however that would have been a misleading position because a team in genuine 3rd would have had more away wins and better performance against Notts Forest.
The thing is my spread shows that in 11th we are kidding ourselves as at 11th we should have beaten Norwich at home who are 9th, and beaten Brentford who are 19th so even 11th is an illusion and the reality is we can only hope for 13th or 14th at best – 17th at worst if nothing improves.
Its OK saying we will get better, there are other teams though who will also improve, we blew our chance of the low hanging fruit and now not only do we have to get better, we have get better than the improvement of others, those who change their management, systems players etc.
Just by being in the top ten and winning, the teams above will improve and that is from where the make-up points have to come.
Miracles can happen and teams can turn things around but we are talking about the Boro here. Don’t be fooled by hope and expectation – remember the hopes of the playoffs 3 years ago – the Boro have a history of letting us down.
In conclusion early as it is I fear we have run out of runway.
GHW
More grist for the angst!
Just when you pluck up the courage to poke yer nose outta yer shed the Boro give you a good slap.
Nevermind, the existential crisis will pass and the sun will shine over the Riverside again- only don’t ask me when.
UTB
I may have to go galumphing back
GHW,
My man shed is looking comforting too.
What worries me is that a lot of managers will now look at Boro and think we are an easy touch for a point or three without adjusting their normal tactics to cope with us.
Spartak I don’t think the very real crisis will pass too quickly, I wonder if they are all in today for a clear the air and sort it meeting?
UTB,
John
One thing I forgot to post pre match during internetless spells.
My colleague was in London on business and stayed over to watch the Rams play Brentford. He said the Bees were a passing team. They had over 75% possession and 14 shots to Derby’s 3.
The early hope that progress was being made has been wiped out all too quickly. The daft Ayala gimme goal at Wolves, Britt missing umpteen chances at Forest etc. we believed were all just symptoms of a side that was settling in and getting used to each other.
Fast forward to yesterday, new Boo boys have been growing as performances have disappointed many not the few but the many still thought or hoped that this week we would collect six points. With the others at the top playing each other in the week this Sunday morning we felt would be very comfortable indeed, sat in a lofty position ready to push on to our next “gelled” phase.
Reality hit home (with yesterday’s uppercut) this week that GM is a very naive Manager. His abject planning and organisation difficulties illustrate that he appears to wing it and make it up as he goes along, tinkering with his line ups and formations week to week. As a consequence we have the “knowns”, those now nailed on frailties frailties that any decent scout or opposing Manager can see when next facing Boro:
1. A weak confused and unsettled midfield.
2. Weakness at defending at RB because he marauds up the pitch at will leaving a hole behind.
3. Weak at LB because he us fast and direct but is small in stature so can be brushed aside and consequently gives away free kicks to compensate.
4. Wide Players have theoretical potential but get at the weak areas above and they won’t see much of the ball and as a consequence neutered.
5. Slow starts, Boro need to go a goal behind before they wake up
6. Tactics, Boro players seem to struggle to adapt to 442 or 433 or 4231 etc. and as a result you can guarantee that during all these changes there will be two or three players unsure of where they are supposed to be or who they should now be picking up, result confused and bewildered.
7. Generally very weak defensively and a certainty to gift a goal with little pressure
8. Far too many players under performing for whatever reason, Howson, Baker, Johnson, Assombalonga, Fletcher, Gibson, Fabio and the list keeps growing not shrinking.
9. Manager not knowing his best 11 or formation.
10 Experienced, proven Championship promotion winners sat in the stands or bench .
I could go on but suffice to say that there is plenty to go on there alone to lift and elevate an opposing set of players giving them belief and confidence and thats before their Manager throws in the overpaid prima donna charge for good measure.
Forshaw, Dimi, Friend, Gibson, Clayts, Grant, Bamford, Ayala, Downing thats nine players with a proven pedigree at this level of which only two get a regular start. Now up until yesterday I did’t have a problem with Randolph and I think his problem was caused by the dropping of Fry and the knock on effect in front of him so I can accept Dimi’s benching. For the rest though its not unreasonable to expect (or in SG’s case demand) that those who take the field are demonstrably far better than those paid to sit in suits or trackies on match days. The evidence to date shows that they are not as good despite price tags that would normally indicate to the contrary.
Yesterday was such a shambles that based on the Fry incident I don’t think GM will have a recognised team for Barnsley if he instantly replaces players for an off day. My gut instinct told me that GM doesn’t have a clue what he is doing to the point that I didn’t listen nor seek his after game interviews or comments. Frustration and negativity towards a manager usually builds slowly with me but there was absolutely nothing to take from yesterday at all especially considering that a “Performance” was needed. I suspect there is a sever dose of GSI syndrome, lovely guy but totally out of his depth and clueless as to how to manage a bunch of blokes, plan, motivate, organise and galvanise.
Downings omission now takes another sinister turn, has he said something again, pointing out the obvious? More disturbingly how has Ben gone from looking like a £30m + Premiership CB to a journeyman Championship plodder? Something just isn’t sitting comfortably with me.
To me SG either brings in an assistant very quickly (but whats the point when it looked like the Manager has lost it) or he acts swiftly and without mercy as I honestly can’t see something as shocking with the talent available turned around any time soon. Yesterday was too bad to just simply shrug off. It was amateurish from top to bottom. One word screamed at me from the rooftops yesterday, clueless, absolutely clueless from selections to tactics and substitutions. Better to build now with a fresh approach giving the new man time to sort things out for the January window to wheel and deal. Lets face it whoever would come in still has a very good squad to manage, its not exactly the mountain Mogga had to face, all the more bewildering then that Monks has managed to make a Pigs ear of it.
Climb down off that fence RR….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S9KXrRUZqtw
Does anyone know a monastery that needs another Monk?
I heard that Bayern Munich could recommend one of their ex managers as being suitable for the Boro
John
I doubt that they wil be in today. According to GM it was just down to anxiety and some poor defending which they can work on next week!
Too simplistic in my view and trying to spin it is only one loss in 9 matches does not wash.
Look at the league table look at the performances. Something needs to change and quickly or else!
GM’s excuses are rubbish. Why is the team anxious if they are the best squad in the League? Why can’t the manager instil confidence? As for defensive mistakes, Monk brought them upon himself by dropping Fry and picking Shotton.
If Monk really believes that things are OK apart from these two factors he is living in cloud-cuckoo land. It doesn’t suggest that he sees the fundamental problems and is going to do anything about them. Very concerning indeed.
KP,
That is a worrying level of complacency, I don’t think he’ll be here at Christmas. All that talent, and there is a lot, and we are showing relegation form. The forlorn hope for me is that we achieve mid-table mediocrity, I cannot see anything to inspire the team or the supporters.
UTB,
John
KP,
He wasn’t wrong was he. The anxiety is on the terraces and perhaps the boardroom. The poor defending we can all see he, GM, needs to sort it out and if he can’t be man enough to admit it. No, sorry, I’m dreaming with that previous sentence.
He’s going to sort it out next week, no worries then, meanwhile the Boro supporters have had a crappy weekend that will continue into next week.
Barnsley must think they will be on a banker. I did spell that correctly by the way.
UTB,
John
Ok Sportsfans, let us address the management situation as most seem to agree the poor performance issues lie there.
Hypothetically, we all agree to thank Garry Monk for his positive contributions towards Boro’s success and we wish him well for his future career, elsewhere. Now what, who is going to replace him? Oh yes sportsfans, you may suggest AK but my belief is that bridge is well burnt
Or you could suggest Aggers puts down his hoe and rake and returns to the Riverside in glory. But I believe Aggers may not be a suitable replacement and is not on the list.
Who then can we call upon to pull the iron from the fire, so to speak?
Your answers on a postcard to SG somewhere sulking in the Channel Isles with his head in a bucket.
Fat Sam?
Please not Pardew or Big Nigel
Carlo Ancelloti would be my favourite
Pay off Monk & co get a bonus for Carlos if we go up based on Prem money spend some of our cushion payment and we’re done!
Not like me to call for change but yesterday and Tuesday made for a really poor week tactically
I was with a lot of angry people yesterday and they form some of the main sponsors for Boro and I’m sure that comments will be striking home over the next few days
OFB
Sparta
I could have uttered all the criticism on the blog(with bells on) but I did not dare.
I thought, give your head a shake and behave yourself .
Reading the full on volley from RR has frightened the wits out of me.
So it was real, I actually saw that disaster, my god, what is to become of us?
How could we sack a manager who hated to let any team go onto the field uncompetitive.
Then hire a pretend manager who promptly cut out the defensive rubbish.
Then hire a manager who was allowed to spend on a rebuild.
Then dismantled the back four who had survived quite happily against the best of the Premiership.
Banished (without the courtesy of letting him on the pitch) a young man who had scored nineteen goals for us in the championship.
There is a reason why clubs fire a failing manager(quickly)
Because the devastation they cause is horrific, and not easily put right.
How long did it take us to get the ship on an even keel and pumped out after Gareth
(see England)?
So, go for it Boro, we have had experience of better than this. Lets vow to return to coaching, organisation, a settled team, you know it makes sense.
You see, my dear ladies and gentlemen of the DiasBoro, that if you ask Garry Monk for a straight answer about what to do, he will tend to say that as far he can see, looking at it by and large, that in taking one thing with another in terms of the areas for concrete and necessary improvement, in the final analysis it is probably true to say, that at the end of the day, in general terms, one will probably find that, not to put too fine a point on it, there is probably very little that the manager can promise or that the average fan can believe will improve in either defence or attack, one way or the other.
It is what it is.
Or putting it into plain language rather than using Sir Humphrey Appleby
– I don’t have a clue what I’m doing or how to fix it –
Where’s a Terry Venables when you need one?
OFB
OFB
Mrs P and I and a couple of our friends are off to his hotel this coming weekend – do you want me to make an approach to him or would that be illegal?
Oh yes !
I bet he’s still 10
Times the coach a lot of these modern guys are !
Good analysis and the results support it – over paid pussies, poncing around on the pitch – not a leader amongst them…..
Should have pointed out that’s RR’s post that is
Just ranting like!!
Wow….like RR , AV does does not hold back on his assessment of the game. Strongest words for a long time from Anthony. He will be getting barred next.
I was surprised AV bothered to award his 321 stars after the game, Braithwaite got 3, Howson 2 and Fabio 1.
I thought Braithwaite could be excused scathing criticism due to getting match fit, his performance was far from attention grabbing but he did at least show composure for his goal. Fabio put in a decent cameo when Bamford came on and finally had someone to link up with. Howson made up for previous errors by setting Fabio’s goal up but frankly the overall performance individually and collectively from the entire team was rank.
No, it wasn’t that good, RR.
I thought the same.
Redcar Red
That is a damning indictment of the current situation at Boro. From afar it would be difficult to argue against it, as I posted earlier there seems to be confusion and it certainly supports your post.
AK had a charge sheet that eventually did for him, that is the nature of football management. He started by putting many ticks in the plus column that gave him the latitude to have a few ticks in the negative column.
The problem for Monk is that he is building up ticks in the negative column at an alarming rate, there is little goodwill to erode.
It is difficult to see how the break will help the situation. If Monk is a technocrat his solution may not be making things simpler. KISS will not apply.
What can you do?
A thought that springs to mind is getting on the phone to local clubs such as Darlo and Hartlepool and be arranging behind closed doors friendlies.
One thing that looks unlikely is Gibbo inviting Gary Monk for a ‘chat’.
My wish for points on the board ended up as one point from two home games. Barnsley will be rubbing their hands following a draw with QPR and a win at Millwall.
My run of five matches until the end of October started with a lucky home point, we now have
Barnsley A
Cardiff H
Reading A
Hull A
Even my 7-8 prediction target looks optimistic but as Greavesie said, football is a funny old game
Dael Fry looked good on Saturday, it is amazing how you improve sat on the bench as a shambles unfolds in front of you.
Whatever confidence he had knocked out of him by being dropped it will have been restored by watching that the shambles he witnessed. Maybe it was a genius masterstroke by Monk in man management and Dael know believes himself to be better than Franz Beckenbauer in his prime. If only…………
This time without all the Typo’s!
Whatever confidence he had knocked out of him by being dropped it will have been restored by watching that shambles. Maybe it was a genius masterstroke by Monk in man management and Dael now believes himself to be better than Franz Beckenbauer in his prime. If only…………
It must be catching, my typing skills are suffering from Shottonitis!
Ian
By and large, Fry has looked good since h
Oops!
As I was saying, Fry has looked good and made less errors than others, so the fact that he was benched in favour of Shotton is inexplicable. I accept that, given what we saw, his continued inclusion may have made no difference yesterday but he can still feel,aggrieved at being benched..
Before the season started, I pleaded for Monk to be given time but even I’m wondering how long he’ll remain if he doesn’t get things sorted over the next few weeks.
Trouble is, as Spartak says, who do we turn to next?
I’m off to find a shed.
7 or 8 points from the next three games – your jokin arn ya?
For a team lying 11th the best we can hope for on last weeks performance is three away points – and a drubbing from Cardiff.
Allan
It was 7-8 from the five games starting with Brentford.
Nuff said
Prior to GM’s availability I was in favour of Alan Pardew but changed to GM as first choice once he became available. This was on the basis he was a younger man who seemed to have had a good spell at Swansea and been unfairly treated.
He seemed to have turned Leeds around and put them on the right track albeit they fell away toward the end of the season.
Having seen the first 11 games I am having grave doubts as to his man management/coaching abilities.
SG needs to take a long hard look at the season to date and may have to make a decision akin to what he did to Southgate once we were relegated as we are clearly in a worse position than then and with a squad that should be able to perform comfortably at this level but at present are clearly not playing as a team.
Barnsley could well be another defining moment if we have another typical Boro performance of yesterday’s magnitude.☹️
Excellent match report from RR who tells it as it is or was, allied to his post today at 9.42 which hits the nail on the head.
I suspect that many of us during our working lives have experienced performance management. If you are in a results business then it tends to be the norm and if it is not being employed at MFC then it should be.
GM needs to be made aware that he and his team are not meeting expectations. If there is not a rapid and clearly identifiable turnaround following the international break (minimum 8 points being set as the benchmark from the next 5 games) then I am with RR in that we cannot wait any longer and a change will need to be made if the season is not to be a complete right off.
How/why has it got so bad so quickly – surely SG must asking thinking along similar lines and being prepared to act? 😖☹️
‘SG prepared to act.’
Hmmmmm!
Sackin is easy it’s the replacing that’s challenging.
Sparta
I do not want you to fall off your chair laughing but consider the following.
An article in the times last week? Told the tale of two brothers who live football and managed their local (non league) team.
The team won everything, and then some.
They moved on to a league team (languishing on the bottom and without a penny)
Shot up to the next division.
Are playing brilliantly, loved by everybody, and will get their chance very quickly to play with a serious toy.
When talent emerges grab it .
Should read ” surely SG must be asking/thinking along similar lines and be prepared to act”.
People asking who is out there to replace Monk if he was let go, nobody they say.
Well, how about Dave Hodgson , listening to him recently ,he would love the job,and seems to have the confidence to give us what we expect.
With right backing and the fact he has worked in very difficult cirumstances and had some success, plus he has all the contacts, tells me he wouldn’t be any worse than some.
He’s been a manager, an agent, a scout,
I’ve always thought that Hodgy’s absence from the game is a tremendous waste of a proper football man who just happens to adore this club.
According to the Sunday Times Monk said that “we are moving in the right direction”. What is he on? Performances are getting worse and the direction we are moving is down the League.
Boroexile
At least he didn’t say magnificent
After hounding their full-back all game I manage to put a Tees ing cross into the six yard box which is begging for a simple tap-in…
, , , , and in it goes?
Will BG be updating SG
Hmmm … I felt exactly the same last night – but, having read through this lot, I’ve largely changed my mind. Calm, people, calm. Time for some patience.
Look at Villa: they started the season very much worse than us and looked to be heading for a relegation battle. There were no signs of anything to build on, morale was rock bottom with no shoots of recovery. Nevertheless they won the next game. And the next – where did those performances come from? Now they’re on a run, bubbling and have rocketed into the top 6.
As somebody used to say, football’s a funny old game. Just because we’re enduring painful dross right now with no signs of redemption anywhere, absolutely none, it doesn’t mean we won’t win the next game handsomely. It doesn’t mean that the top 6 can’t be reached this month.
It’s amazing how mature, balanced and philosophical we can all be during the summer. Most of us recognised that, with a largely new team combined with a new management team, it would take time for things to gell. Yet, when our predictions prove to be accurate and we find ourselves knee-deep in do-do, we all do precisely the same: gnashing of teeth and all hell breaks loose.
We knew it would take time and it is.
Nikeboro
11 games in & we’re going backwards not forwards.
You could of course look at Bayern Munich as a role model.
Procrastination kills chances of success.
Just sayin like
🙂
I take your point about Bayern, i.e. sacking Ancelotti a few games into the season. However it was his second year at the club. Furthermore I would be delighted to emulate them – after all, he won the title in his first season.
We have no entitlement to win games and we all knew that August was like as not going to be a settling in period with some disappointments along the way very likely. Wolves and Forest were disappointing but frustratingly understandable. Preston was a dabble that didn’t pay off and the formation was changed half way into the first half as a sticking plaster resolution.
September hopefully would be a gradual phased improvement, slow perhaps and maybe not quite there just yet with Oct/Nov more likely the target date for when the team finally clicked.
September saw a Bolton master class (against the worst side in the league it has to be noted) with an unconvincing QPR display, Fulham was pretty much backs to the wall but we stood firm, Traore’s dismissal saw a determined collective effort at Villa so although it wasn’t universally convincing there was a spirit of sorts evident. The Players were getting used to each other and the Manager now had a few months to instil his beliefs, methodology and technical requirements. This last week of September was an opportunity to see those benefits enhanced even further by the return of Braithwaite, the end of September should have seen an upward trajectory from the start of the season with two home games.
Tuesday was a disappointing evening and an individual paid the price for collective failure. Fair enough, Ayala had paid the same price and has been suited rather than booted more often since. Many of us felt that to drop Dael would send out the wrong message to a young lad and one that had been one of our better and more consistent performers thus far into the season. The fact he was covering at RB and the goal came from the middle of the pitch seemed very harsh on him despite his error. Then we have his replacement, there were a few concerns on here and elsewhere about the dogged, single minded persistence to sign Shotton way back in August but if the Manager or whoever wanted him so badly then who are we as mere amateurs to question. We had thought (hoped in some quarters) that the deal had fallen through but sadly that wasn’t the case.
What we witnessed yesterday was so poor it is impossible to quantify, there was nothing of merit to take away from the game at all. A confused, disorganised mess which would look out of place in a Sunday Pub League let alone the EFL was the pinnacle of all those signings, admonishments, formations and practice sessions. The anticipated progress has been questionable but we were largely willing to be patient but that patience is dependant upon progress being made however slow or whatever eccentric form it may take.
That display against Brentford was dire and it was clear that whoever had orchestrated it hadn’t the remotest clue of what on earth they were doing or how to address it. What was even clearer is that the orchestra had no idea who was playing what instrument let alone what page of the sheet music they were supposed to be on or even the tune. Throw in the growing list of foibles from slow starts, experienced and proven Pro’s disregarded, persistently having to come from behind etc. and I don’t believe that acceptable progress is being made given the quality of the raw materials.
The Professionals out on that pitch yesterday were non believing and most definitely not on board either and just as many of us suspected accurately last season I am very suspicious that not everyone or everything is as it should be just now in the dressing room (how could it be after witnessing that?). This should be the honeymoon period with everything to look forward to yet it felt more like an acrimonious divorce. A poor or freak result is one thing but there was not one single solitary redeeming feature from yesterday’s sorry show and there doesn’t seem to be any signs of improvement in fact quite the reverse.
Anxiety, about what? Why (Traore excepted) would a Manager have a team full of anxious minds? There is a lot more to it than we saw on the surface and if the players display zero belief then thats a good indication of what is really happening. Maybe GM has bottomed out, had a stern, cold reality check and will bounce back reinvigorating things in a darkest before the dawn kind of way but to do that requires organisation, structure, focus and planning, all the things that seem to be slipping further away.
You’re rightmof course but our patience is wearing a bit thin!
As you all know I am a very optimistic Boro supporter but even I cannot defend the shambles I witnessed in the first half and it did not get much better in the second half.
Reading all the comments I am beginning to wonder if I imagined something I saw while we waited for the stretcher for the unfortunate Brentford player. I believe I saw Gibson, Shotton, Clayton and Braithwaite arguing just outside the Boro box, as no one has mentioned it.
Come on BORO.
They were probably arguing on who was going to point the Bishop’s Finger at the Monk.
I’m at a loss as to why I was so optimistic a few games ago & now I’m in the doldrums.
Interesting wonder if they’ve had a training incident bust up before the game as they all
Looked off the pace
Saw Clayton arguing with a few players yesterday
I didn’t listen to the Radio Tees commentary of Boro’s match yesterday, but instead watched the British Masters Golf hosted by Lee Westwood on his adopted home course of Close House Golf Club near Newcastle. It would seem I made the right choice having not only read Redcar Red’s report, but also Anthony Vickers report in the Gazette which was pretty scathing also.
I have been a follower of the Boro for 70 years but the last time I attended a match at the Riverside was on 3rd May 1997 when Ravanelli converted a last minute penalty to beat Aston Villa 3-2, so some might say that I’m not a true supporter, and they may have a point in as much as I don’t actually “support ” Boro in an active sense by attending matches. However, like many bloggers and exiles they are MY team, so I hope that entitles me to give my views.
I must admit that defeats no longer upset me, and certainly don’t ruin my weekend anymore as they used to years ago, because I have not the expectation of success that some younger than I might have. It’s the hope that kills you?
When I was an adolescent and Boro were a First Division team in the postwar years I was thrilled to see the likes of Wilf Mannion, George Hardwick, Mickey Fenton and Johnny Spuhler (my favourite) play for Boro, but also the likes of Tommy Lawton, Tom Finney, Stanley Matthews, Billy Wright, Frank Swift, John Charles, et al because one rarely saw them on television. In those days most teams had either a home international or exinterntional player in their side and, although I always wanted Boro to win, there was always the excitement of looking forward to the next match. I was oblivious to the fact that Boro could possibly be relegated, but of course it did happen, but like most people at the time I thought we would get promoted the next season never contemplating it would mean 20 years in the lower leagues. That was the time when defeats started to upset me and ruin my weekend especially when Brian Clough was banging them in at one end whilst we were conceding 70/80 goals a season. That’s when it was that the hope killed me.
History has a habit of repeating itself, so are we in a crisis now? Well certainly not if one remembers the early 1980s. The halcyon years of Juninho, Ravanelli, Hasselbaink and Viduka raised our expectations afterwards and after relegation again we grumbled about a measly 7 years outside the Premier League. It isn’t the hope that kills us anymore, it’s now the expectation!
Karanka did a great job in getting us back into the Premier League, but failed lamentably in it. Will Garry Monk get us promoted this season? Possibly, but if so do you want to see a repeat of what happened last season? The Premier League in my opinion is no longer a league. It’s a competition for about half a dozen clubs to try to qualify for the misnamed European Champions League, because only one team from each country can be called Champions. Wouldn’t you rather see Boro play against teams on an equal footing?
What is the point of trying to compete in a League just to avoid relegation? Unlike in my youth one can watch international footballers regularly on television if one wishes to. The top English teams now want a greater slice of television revenue because of their status.In fact I would be in favour of a salary cap to make the Premier League more competitive.
Whoa! These foreign mercenaries wouldn’t then want to play for our top teams, would they?
So what! It might help the development of our own players.
As I said before, I don’t visit the Riverside anymore, but I still care about the Boro, but I’m no longer obsessed by them or football in general. Sure, I enjoyed the postwar seasons and the Jack Charlton era but unless Boro or Hartlepool are playing I don’t watch live matches on television anymore, just highlights. However I do realise that most of you do love the match experience, and to those that do I say “good on you”, but it’s not for me anymore, but I do love this forum.
So, from an armchair observer, up the Boro.
Plato
Its a funny old game!
Last season, here at the foot of the White Carpathians, the local team gained a spot in Europe. Not long ago they won the league. Two weeks ago they sacked their manager because of a poor start to the season.
Lower league managers don’t have the responsibilty of mamaging players who cost tens of millions sterling against opposition managers with great experience. I’m not saying it can’t be done but success for them is as rare as golden goosie eggs.
What Chairman in his right mind would entrust £40million worth of players to a non-league manager?
Nikeboro
The Bayern board were decisive, SG rarely appears to be. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why we’ve spent so long in the Championship this time round (7× out of 8 seasons).
Sparta
Yes it is a funny old game.
Every thing you say is eminently sensible.
But football is not a sensible game.
The ability to look at yourself in the mirror is a great gift.
Consider the following.
Dire team(with splendid ground and good funding) it cast adrift in the second level of football.
String of typical lower league managers.
Enter the strange one.
A foreigner.
Never managed a club.
Takes one look at the rabble of a team(no two consecutive results alike)
Fixes the defence(an awful lot of games with a clean sheet)
Outrage (this is not good enough, the other teams don’t like us)
First full season, play offs( damned not good enough, so there)
Second season, automatic promotion, cracking defence, group of players openly defiant, and don’t care who know it.
In the prem. Still a great defence, forwards rubbish, obviously going down at Christmas(with the lowest goals conceded in the prem. History )
So we fire manager and hire the office boy to see out the season(the gap is five points)
Fire office boy, hire new manager, spend lots of money. (but we still have our precious back four, and a better keeper)
Eleven in, he has somehow broken up the back four, broken our very good home form, is completely off the wall with his selections, and is lost and talking nonsense
We have some very serious games coming up(a good call would be, about sixteenth)
Oh for the power to turn back the clock(go down with our golden defence, and our manager enjoy a good season lodged in the top four, probably get up again, and have strengthened our forward play
After the Norwich defeat, Ben Gibson claimed that it was a wake-up call for the players – unfortunately Boro appear to have slept through this particular call against Brentford and now that the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear will they now rise from their slumbering season?
Ben also said after Norwich that they haven’t been able to put their finger on the reason why they were starting games so slowly stating “We will start games faster and we have to make sure we are ruthless from minute one. For whatever reason we haven’t done that yet. I’m sure it will click.”
What does that tell us? Well it actually tells us several things – they have a problem, they know they have a problem, they don’t know why they have a problem and the solution seems to be to hope the problem will just go away.
The Brentford game told us that anything that has been tried since then in order to address this problem has made the problem worse. Though, there hasn’t really been any sign of a planned progression in terms of the team and somehow changes have been made in an adhoc manner to see whether it would create a better fit – which is fine given the options available but some of the changes that have been made looked ill-timed.
Perhaps the Preston game showed us that Monk was prone to simply thinking out loud when he tried a new system at short notice that just didn’t work. Also Bamford, who was playing well at the time, was just dropped for no apparent reason – Baker was then introduced shortly after his arrival on loan but didn’t look ready – plus Howson continued to start despite looking off the pace.
Downing came in but didn’t seem to be effective and appeared to be an integral player but is now not even in the squad, Johnson looked good for a couple of games but his form has now dipped. Then Adama looked to be a world beater before seeing red and sat out a couple of league games has also looked less focused on his return. Not to mention Assombalonga has looked low on confidence and is not really playing like a striker expecting to score goals. Leadbitter came back and then went out and Howson is back but as Braithwaite returns then Baker is out again.
The question is whether Monk is shaping a team or still just experimenting with his many options – have the number of changes been made just prevented any kind of cohesion and understanding?
Maybe the objective of promotion with so many changes is not realistic – though other teams have fared better with similar changes to their squads. Have we just made the wrong changes or over-reacted to minor problems – like dropping Fry and Bamford when they seemed in good form. Perhaps what we are just seeing is that at the moment Monk has still not found the team he is looking for – the question now being asked is whether that team he is searching for exists.
Maybe it’s time Monk looked at starters who have the ability to play at a consistent level rather than looking at those who can be good one week and bad the next – or at least pick players who understand how to play with other players and will play with directed energy in their roles and not ponderous indecision.
Can’t see Gibson ditching Monk after 11 games – it’s just not his style. I suspect Monk will get the whole season to find his team, let’s hope he doesn’t lose the players in the process.
Or the club’s place in the Championship for League One.
Thought of the evening.
At half-time, when we were 1-0 down, I thought of something a Leicester fan once said and paraphrased it to suit our situation. I thought about what’s gone wrong for Boro not just this season, or even during the last year, but since we went five points clear at the top on January 2, 2016. Barring the brief flurry that took us up post that “unfortunate incident”, there’s been little to smile about.
Is it form, confidence or basic levels of application? Look at it this way. When AKBoro went five points clear after beating Paul Clement’s Derby, we were thriving through the spirit of a coherent collective that knew what they were doing and felt confident in where they were going, ahead of individual ability.
Ever since the coming and beyond the going of Gaston Ramirez and Jordan Rhodes, we’ve been repeatedly relying on mainly temperamental individuals to dig us out of trouble.
It is easy for me, sitting here in Northern Ireland, to be frustrated but understanding of Boro’s struggles as they figure out the best way to move forward. I can’t even contemplate how infuriating it must be for those sitting in the Riverside right now to watch a team not seem to know how they want to play or what direction they’re moving in. It’s a very expensive hobby, watching football at an all-seater stadium, and it will take more than brief, exciting flashes of individualism to fill the seats again on a regular basis.
I wouldn’t boo, but I understand why people do.
Sadly, Simon, yesterday very many people in the stadium booed. If Boro started with little confidence ( as GM said, very puzzlingly), then the frequent bouts of booing yesterday surely won’t have helped. Happily, there were no boos at the end. I think the few who were left accepted that the lads had tried hard and had somehow scraped a draw from the jaws of defeat. ( I nearly wrote, ‘battled back to a draw’ in that sentence, but that would have been to give them too much credit.)
Personally, I don’t boo. I don’t think it does any good. Well, I tell a lie. I booed once, at Barnsley, the game before Mogga was sacked. What is worrying is that we saw many of the echoes of that woeful Barnsley performance again yesterday.
Like Nikeboro, I want to plead a little patience. We’re all anxious and we’re all upset, but GM still needs more time. Deep down, I think he’s a good manager and that he may soon get it right. But like somebody said earlier, I’m starting to wonder if he’s only a good manager when he’s got a good number two alongside him. Currently, as I understand it, he doesn’t, so he’s having to take all the pressure and all the criticism himself. Perhaps SG ought to persuade him to get somebody in to assist?
And so we return to Barnsley. Ever hopeful of an upturn not just in results, but also in the performance. It can only get better. If it doesn’t, and if we don’t pick up 4 points from our next 2 games, then I’ll start to fret.
A little perspective perhaps.
Last season was an abject failure, we rolled over and died without so much as a whimper. Historically teams that fare so badly in the Premiership are in danger of dropping straight down into Div One.
Considering the three class players at the club, Negredo, De Roon and Ramirez have left, it would have indeed have been a possibility.
This is a brand new team, and things will take time. I still feel the basic ingredients are there but all this angst and vitriol so early in the season is frankly laughable. No relegated team has a divine right to achieve immediate promotion back to the Premiership, especially one that did as badly as we did.
Perhaps we are not as good as some fans seem to think we are, and it will take a lot of hard work to climb the table, long way to go yet.
You always pay for mistakes.
We all knew the sheer difficulty of getting out of this league.
We fired a manager who had two goes and achieved a playoff final and an automatic promotion.
With approx. Fifteen matches to go, it made sense to accept it and leave him in charge.
With a team that had played in the prem at his command and money to spend we would have been good to go.
Ken Smith
You are no less a supporter for not going to the games. There are many regular posters on here through reasons of their cannot attend matches, but I don’t doubt their commitment. Our friends down in Oz are one example.
I’m intrigued you saw so many luminaries of the game in the flesh.
If you’d care to share your impressions of them with us, I’m sure we’d all be delighted to read them.
In particular I’d love to read your views on John Charles, the pioneering Welshman who played for my favourite Italian team.
As for the Brentford game I was by all accounts fortunate to miss it, I even failed to follow on Twitter.
Perhaps GM’s assertion ‘it’s a squad not a team game’ will be the petard upon which he hoists himself.
This was by far the worst game of the season and I have seen all but 2.
The signs have been plain to see all season so I dont think of this game as a “one off”. we can forget promotion this season while the present structure is in place.
Monk may have already lost the dressing room as similar to last seasons two camps, brits v foreigners. we now have another two camps pre-Monk v post-Monk and I think this may be part of the problem.
Pre season I was concerned about the amount of attacking “talent” being purchased as I could not see how we could give them all a game.
We need a settled team with no swapping and changing just to give game time.
I would sell or loan two of the attacking players come January and break the bank to recruit a proven creator
During the window Monk should play a few practice matches with one team of pre-Monk and one team of post-Monk as follows:
Pre-Monk
Dimi
Fabio Gibson Ayala Friend
Clayton Grant
Traore Forshaw Downing
Bamford
Post-Monk
Randolf
Roberts Shotton Fry Christie
Baker Howson
Johnson Braitwaite Fletcher
Britt
Appologies to young Dael for putting him with the newcomers.
Maybe he could learn a thing or two about his best players in which position.
If he cannot produce a coherent side in the next five games he should go and we should appoint fat Sam.
SG please dont be scared of appointing a proven manager. I remember people scoffing at the thought of Tony Pulis a few years back. Even AV said there would be no base ball caps at the Riverside, well just look at were West Brom are.
I never thought I would say this but at the moment I think AK would get a lot more out of this squad than the present manager.
Old Billy…..I think the pre Monk would win two out of three games if played.
Oh and my final rant of the day.
Talking of leadership
SG – for Gods sake give Grant a new contract or you will lose him in January!!!
Rant over
At the end of last season , those who are in on the inner works of the business, decided upon their manifesto
The sent off Gary Gill and his band of men to find the players who were going to transform this sad lethargic team of nearly men to the 1960/61 Tottenham double team.
In the face of history, im wondering the reason Nev Pearson wasn’t hired was because ,he was aware of certain individuals within the he club,he wasn’t on board with,and infact had his own ideas on who we should be trying to sign,didn’t one of his top scouts move to a top club?
I know for sure ,Monk didn’t really have clue as to most of our players and their abilities,or the clubs DNA, how could he?infact how could he make a decision on Downing a week into the job.
The club sent out Gill who comes back with three or four players for each position we could chase.
It’s on Gill and Monk who put the squad together.
Don’t blame me!
” Happily, there were no boos at the end”
Not sure where you were sat, but they were deafening in the East stand.
BOOS when they scored amd again at half time and loads more at the end !!!
I don’t boo the team or individual players but I accept that it’s the only release valve that many have to vent their frustration at the proceedings.
I agree with the suggestion that GM needs an assistant to shoulder some of the burden and that, maybe, having so many attacking options is making selection difficult, although we’re still lacking a creative presence.
We can only hope that the International break provides the opportunity for an objective assessment and remedial action to be taken.
Against all my instincts (I’d been feeling the same as most of you), I advocated patience – and then huddled down with my tin hat on. Now that a little more distance is giving greater objectivity, I think I was right to do so.
Somebody said that AK would get more out of this squad. Well, the AK of his first couple of years might – but not the AK of his last year. By then his character defects had poisoned things and he’s lost the dressing room and the board.
As I said on the last blog, GM has had ample opportunity to experiment and try different formations and players. It’s now make your mind up time. Yes, it’s a squad game but that doesn’t mean any manager has to utilise every squad member equally and be constantly be changing the setup.
Good bad or indifferent, he needs to settle on a team shape and a preferred first 11. As far as injuries and suspensions allow, he needs to stick with that combination until after Xmas until it’s bedded down and imprinted in the players’ brains.
Wrong!!!*
*see following post and the reasonin behind his selections. You can choose, stick with it & still be wrong, that is lose!
I get the impression that GM is tryin to transition from the old to the new in terms of player selection. Perhaps he feels obligated to play the players he’s bought. This would explain much but not all.
Unfortunately, the emphasis then becomes necessity of obligation rather than best use of squad resources. To put it crudely, GM has his head on back to front and subsequently he’s lost all sense of footballing direction. You can of course point the finger at individual player error, but this would mean missing the main point of how the team performs as a whole.
Of course he’s going from old to new. The old proved to be not good enough.
You’re also assuming he bought the players….
Well, to date the Boro’s season is proving to be under whelming to say the least. Although I do agree with Nikeboro that patience is required, that’s easy to say, but when you’ve spent good money on your ticket to watch a team who have spent a shedload on players, were pre-season favourites and have a chairman whose stated aim was automatic promotion then patience doesn’t come easily.
I have an uneasy feeling about where this season will lead, that’s probably down to the poor start we’ve had and three wins in a row would probably see that feeling replaced by something considerably more positive.
Maybe the transition from AK’s ultra pragmatic cautious approach to a more expansive risk taking approach is proving far more difficult to execute than anyone thought.
We’re eight points off top, which is no great gap at this stage of the season, but there is little room for error now.
Nigel
Sitting back with Clayton joining the Centre backs and waiting to see is not a more expansive approach though the risk taking is right – if you sit back and allow the opposition to settle in and nick the first goal that is most certainly risky.
I don’t know what the answer is but from what I have seen, heard and read there seems to be confusion in the ranks.
We certainly need a bit of stability.
GHW
Bless yer cotton socks. How is the selection of previously successful players at Championship level a problem. They who are bench warming or not playing have promo winning medals. I speak of Bamford, Ayala, Forshaw, Downing. To dismiss their ability to contribute is to miss the greater potential for success. The present GM introductory mix IS the one that is failing, hence fans booing and many calling for change.
To conclude, I believe we need new management now. That could mean a new mindset for GM or a new manager toot sweet 🙂
Bless your cotton socks if you think Downing is any good.
He’s better than me & thee!
But you purposely ignore the other names I mention, plus of course Leadbelter.
Not at all, if they were performing well they would be in the team. When given a chance Downing, Forshaw and Bamford haven’t shined. Historical form counts for nothing.
As for Downing “pinging” balls, if it was table tennis it would be called Pong Pong. Admittedly I baulked at the idea when resigning him was first mentioned, but nothing since then has happened to change my mind.
But there is nothing wrong with the others .GHW. Except you don’t rate Bamford
Sparta
A good start would be to install our red hot back four of Friend, Gibson, Fry, and Fabio with the new keeper, and leave them in. We know they are good enough.
Cotton socks are ok but I find a wool mixture are more comfortable which is more than can be said for sundry players in our squad.
Sundry is the problem, there appears to be no pattern to selection or formation, that will lead to indifferent performances. I quickly tried to compare the appearance statistics for Boro and Cardiff but it isn’t as easy with the new websites so I could see any obvious link.
I bravely watched the ten minute ‘pastiche’ and it was bad, goodness knows what those present felt enduring the full 90+ minutes.
For both goals the Bees players were goal side of our defenders, a cardinal sin.
And I read you meant Shotton socks, like.
🙂
Perhaps playing with Adama and Johnson as two of the three forwards, who are essentially runners with the ball, leads to too many moves breaking down as they have too many men to beat and that results in very little service to those more central. If you add the fact Assombalonga hasn’t got a very good first touch and is often running the channels and vacanting the centre-forward position then it leaves three of the four forwards hardly ever linking up.
Boro need that number ten type player with vision and the ability to hold the ball and execute accurate passes who can link things together and give the team a focus. Gaston was that player in our promotion season and Monk probably has a couple of options for that role in Bamford, Downing or Baker. Perhaps Braithwaite could be utilised on the left and use his power to cut inside.
Also our central midfield doesn’t often drive forward, but is content to play short passes backwards and sideways that don’t bring momentum – the exception when Howson drove forward against Brentford lead to a goal.
Plus there was very little in the way of passing and moving on Saturday so that players had passing options in a forward direction – this allows the opposition plenty of time to set themselves and organise and it becomes even harder to find another Boro player in space.
I’m still thinking a back-three may be the best way to get our then wing-backs forward and offer us more reliable width without losing the use of more varied forwards on the pitch. With Johnson and Adama as two of the forwards on the flanks we are left with fewer players making runs into the box.
We should have enough quality in the squad to make it work so Monk needs to discover why it hasn’t moved forward.
Therein lies the problem, we don’t have a central midfield.
It’s funny, huh? We wanted goals, lots of chances created and comebacks from behind to get a result or win – we’ve got all that! In the last three home games! Yet the overall trajectory of the team is one of confusion and incohesion, not unlike the start of 2013-14 – again, lots of goals, but going nowhere – and this is what frustrates. I think.
I was not able to follow the match because of work commitments. What I have read, I have not missed much.
The report and comments supplied by RR have been valuable. So thank you again for those. I think it was mentioned that there was nothing good in the Brentford game. But I disagree – at least Boro got a point and a couple of goals were scored. An omen of a good team is if you play badly and still can get something out of the game.
Like Ken said, we long-time supporters have seen all before. Remember Strachan and his all early-season purchases? We were the bookies favourites pre-season, too.
But I think we have bought much better players now tha during the Strachan era. Much better and established Championship players.
But we have to remember that buying a lot of new players means a. Whole season could be a transitional period. See Aston Villa last season when they invested hevily in new palyers. It not the money, but a practically new team and a manager needs time.
I am still dreaming we can get promoted this season. Once we click, we might finally smash the leagues as Gibbo said. I do think he meant finanaces, though.
Well, it is easy for me to rant about patience. I am not living locally and do not hear about the bad performance every day (I did get a lot of stick yesterday from my friends, though).
But I still believe all things said pre-season applies. We have an excellent team of players and a good but young manager. We also said it will take three to four months to get the team molded.
So work in process. We all hoped for a shorter bedding-in period, but it looks like it will take a bit more time. Some teams have needed a whole year to get to the optimum level.
Up the Boro!
Jarkko, a work in progress implies that improvement is being made week by week. With Boro, there has been no improvement and in fact things have got significantly worse culminating in the shambles against the Bees.
Why then should anyone believe that there will be a transformation under Monk into a team that can compete for promotion? It is just not going to happen and I am 100% with Spartak, RR and others who argue that new management is needed and now.
As a bonus.
Lies, damn lies, highlights and statistics.
This 3-0 cup win against Wolves will always strike me as one of the greatest oddities in the history of AKBoro. I remember being absolutely shocked at reading RR’s “nowt special” report, but I believed every word. And yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wm8Wivq0YQ
The two-minute highlight video shows a clean sheet kept, three goals scored and at least three more concrete chances created, all by Boro. But that can’t trump what the fan sees at the game with his or her own eyes.
Hearing about Boro win the game, De Pena playing a part in all three goals and then watching such clinical finishing later online was a joy. Being there… well, you know.
It was like Southgate’s first game, in which Boro let a 2-0 lead at Reading turn into a 3-2 defeat. According to AV, I believe, it was more comprehensive than it looked, yet if you depended on the MOTD highlights you could lead yourself to believe that we conceded twice in a five minute wobble after Arca was injured and that we were robbed by a late offside decision.
Lies, damn lies, highlights and statistics.
Simon
I was at that match with John Powls and his lad. Two nil up in no time with Boro fans baiting the home fans ‘we are premiership’.
The game changed when the tippy tappy twins – Arca and Rochembach started their antics. John and I looked at each other and shook our heads as they passed the ball to each other without looking, it was what led to Arca’s injury – not John and I looking at each other.
They just played us in to trouble and once Reading scored the first goal we struggled as they over powered us.
We know the late ‘equaliser’ was a goal because the big screen didn’t show it, when Mrs P picked us up she said the local commentators said it was a goal. Hey ho!
A new manager at this stage of the season? I cant see that solving many problems.
Strangely Nigel, I can see it solving all of them as long as the new manager has his or her head on the right way round.
For example, think back to the time when Robbo was in the mire and one T Venables was contracted. Made something of a radical change there if I remember correctly.
GHW
Just been over to the EG site and Dom Shaw’s article agrees with my analysis as per utilising ‘proven’ successful Championship players from our squad, including Downing.
Just sayin like 🙂
Plato
I fully agree with your last comment.
🙂
UTB
If it’s in the Gazette then it must be true….
Hates ‘experts’ me like!*
* especially when they dont agree with me – like!
🙂
Is this the Diaskunks site now? Mr Gibson won’t even think about a discussions with Monk before Chrismas if we are above bottom three.
I think even Leeds and more interestingly Sunderland are continuing with their manager. And Sunlun are in the bottom two.
So Mr Gibson won’t panic yet. No chance. Up the Boro!
I don’t think it will happen but if GM’s Boro side put in a first half performance away to Barnsley as bad as last Saturday then Mr Gibson may be severely tested.
RR, I agree that it won’t happen but that doesn’t mean that is shouldn’t. People don’t like making decisions that demonstrate that they got their earlier decision wrong and SG has a track record that shows that he is no different in this. Problem is that putting off the decision almost invariably makes the problem worse rather than better.
I agree with an earlier comment that a team relegated from the Premier League in such a woeful manner has no divine right to expect promotion in the following season despite spend millions of pounds on new players.
Obviously I am talking about the Boro, but I could equally have been talking about Aston Villa. They too had a dismal scoring record in the Premier League, went on a long winless run, and in the close season spent heavily on new players. At one time last season in the Championship they were just above the relegation positions, but they improved to finish mid table. They were made favourites by the bookies for promotion this season, and despite a sluggish start are now in the top six.
I think that this might happen to Boro; perhaps we will be better equipped to gain promotion next season. I can’t see Steve Gibson sacking Monk this season unless we finish in the bottom six, so the answer seems to be that we must have an assistant. Karanka had an assistant (ok he might not have consulted him much, we don’t really know), but it seems to me that Monk has always had an assistant in his previous posts and is finding life difficult now without one. Could Steve Agnew fit the bill? Or has that suggestion been put to Monk and he has declined the idea?
After all even Brian Clough was a failure at Brighton and Leeds without Peter Taylor, but a great success at Forest with him,
The Downing syndrome is an interesting one, he doesn’t rip down the wing beating three defenders Adama style. He doesn’t score lots of spectacular curlers from 25 yards out. I can’t even remember specific crosses to set up particular goals yet the stats say:
With Downing: Won 67%, Drew 33%, Lost 0%
Without Downing: Won 44%, Drew 22%, Lost 33%
(Source: Boro stats)
Like I say I don’t think he has set the heather alight since his return but he obviously must have the knack of reading the game and making a difference somehow. Either that or he is just a very expensive Rabbit’s Foot.
Like Grant he may not be all action but he reads the game, intercepts and closes down, covers for the LB despite the taunts that he won’t tackle and whilst that is not why he was brought in admittedly right now GM would love to go into the next ten games with winning 7 drawing 3 and losing 0.
I remember a Sales Director I worked with many years ago berating one of his Sales Managers because all he allegedly did was spend most of the week entertaining clients on the golf course instead of getting out and about around his patch getting orders in from customers. I enquired what his sales figures were and the response was 15% ahead of budget and 20% up on last year (or thereabouts). Whats the problem I quizzed? “Well all he does is invite customers over to play golf at his local course all the time and he hardly ever goes anywhere the lazy beggar”.
Under a Labour government England won the World Cup. Under the Tories, nothing……..
Spartak – I’m not sure Terry Venables is available, yesterdays man anyway.
One other thing, to my mind phrases like ‘bless your cotton socks’ are condescending and do not promote healthy debate and indeed show a lack of respect for the opinion of others.
Yes, Nigel I agree on a written site such as this it might not be appropriate, therefore I will cease to use it and I offer my apologies to GHW if indeed he is offended.
Sorry GHW! It wont happen again.
Thank you Nigel for calling it out.
Nigel
What would work perhaps is someone available who is in the mould of TV.
Jarkko
I do believe your patience is infinite when it comes to changing managers.
Redcar Red
Sometimes it is the synergy between players. You cant explain it but the team just plays better with that player in there.
Dean Richards, the England back row rugby international was one of those. He wasn’t a grey hound or had fantastic handling skills, he wasn’t devastating in the loose or especially destructive at ruck and maul but when he played he seemed to be the glue that held the team together.
The opposition seemed to kick the ball to him, players ran at him so he could tackle them, line out ball dropped in to his hands.
Of course, statistics are dangerous things.
Yes I do remember Dean Richards, he was a Lurcher not a Greyhound. Easy to make that mistake 😃
Ian
Maybe opponents single him out as a “name” for special attention bearing in mind they are unlikely to read Boro Web forums too often and see him as the ex England Player who can create with a wand of a left foot.
If so that invariably means others have more space and time to do their thing. I can’t list all the brilliant or outstanding things he has done since returning because they seriously don’t seem to exist in my mind or at least stand out yet those stats seem an incredible, almost impossible set of coincidences.
On Saturday I felt we could have done with both him and Grant coming on to steady things and start to exert an influence but there again I would have made 11 substitutions had the laws permitted after 15 minutes.
All the hype at the beginning of the season with mass investment and the dreaded comment by Sir Steve ‘ we will smash the league ‘ has not panned out as many of us thought. Other teams have raised their game against Boro and this will continue. For me at the moment , I certainly wouldn’t change the manager but the the next few games will be crucial. Bad performances like Sat and SG will certainly be having a decision to make so early in the season also we can’t afford to have problems behind the scenes like we had before. I do hope though that GM manages to turn things round. As they say ‘ time will tell ‘
Again from the Boro stats site (great work by the way!), GM has tried the following formations (number of games in brackets):
4-3-3 (x4)
3-5-2 (x1)
4-4-1-1 (x2)
4-2-3-1 (x1)
4-4-2 (x2)
4-3-1-2 (1)
Add in two or three personnel changes per game and its not difficult to see what the problems are and why Saturday was the tipping point with confused and disjointed players all over the park arguing about who is supposed to be where?
Adama took some flak from me (and in other reports elsewhere) for being static in an incident instead of running into space but perhaps he was holding back whilst Christie went on his run in case Brentford broke while he was out of position as Norwich did with poor Dael taking the flak. Had that incident maybe preyed on minds and the determination to not repeat being exposed the real reason why Adama didn’t continue his run? There were confused players all over the park leading to heated exchanges, all indicative that they were on different wave lengths.
GM needs to settle on a system and develop it using the best players for that system regardless of who signed who, when and where.
RR
Traore, how can we make a problem out of blinding speed?
A few facts
We set out to give him the ball to feet, then he can dribble four men.
We do not, ever, play the ball into the dead ground behind the defence so that he can win the race for possession (he would)
When we get the play on one side of the pitch with him on his own, we ignore him.
When the opposition have a corner we do not post him on the half way line.
And most infuriating, when we finally bring on Bamford(very late in the game) we remove Traore.
I believe he is far more of a handful in the middle than on the wing.
I think that he, used correctly would force the opposition to play nearer their own goal
Following my post yesterday, I thought I’d put part of the history of Boro into verse with a little humour about myself entitled “Me and the Boro”:-
Who is this old codger
That’s called Kenneth Smith
Whose views on this forum
Some folk put up with.
He suffers with cancer
His prostate you know
Spends hours on the toilet
When his water won’t flow.
And a tortuous colon
He suffers as well,
With one thing and another
Some days it is hell.
But the NUMBER ONE torture
In his 70 plus years
Is that team called the Boro
Which drives him to tears.
From stars like George Hardwick,
Wilf Mannion too,
And some who you’d consider
A right motley crew.
We’ve had liquidation
At old Ayresome Park;
Riverside Revolution,
Now that was a lark.
With boss Bryan Robson
Recruiting a few
Like Barmby, Juninho,
Rav, Emerson too.
McLaren started badly,
Four defeats in a row,
The Boro were struggling
And morale became low.
But Boro recovered
And soon finished well
In the seasons that followed
Cup results helped to swell ———
The support of the masses
Who lived out a dream
When twice they recovered
To become a top team.
They defeated Romanians
After beating the Swiss
So off to Eindhoven,
A match some had to miss.
But weve had some hard times
In the subsequent years,
Though when we beat Brighton
Most of us shed some tears.
But after last season
When relegation occurred
This year might be better;
But I give you Ken’s word ——–
That if Boro are champions
Because goals have been fired,
And Ken’s NOT celebrating,
Then he’s probably EXPIRED.
You’re a good poet
And I’m sure you know it 😃
Wishing you all the best during this terrible time & your fight against cancer.
I see there is a growing groundswell of opinion, not just on here but other media platforms as well, that GM is not up to the job and needs replacing. I’m personally not one of them but when you’re in a hole stop digging. Driving home from work bbc Tees reported him saying that after Saturdays total debacle we should “put it in perspective”!
What perspective is he on about? The one where an average and limited side, Brentford not Boro, showed how work rate, effort, good team ethic and a well excecuted game plan can overcome an alleged difference in skill levels? Or the perspective of the home team who showed none of the above in as bad a performance we hoped we would never have to witness again? Or the perspective of the Boro fans, wherever they may be, who had the misfortune to witness such a down right pathetic performance from the majority of the starting 11?
Instead of coming out with inane sound bites front up and say we were poor, to put it politely, and intend to work harder as a group of professionals to put things right. Don’t treat supporters as idiots and don’t start using spin eg 1 defeat in 9. Rubbish comments like that just won’t wash!
Love it Ken. Great work. Should probably rewrite my Talking Point as a poem…
I’ve often said the assistant manager is more important than we think. I genuinely think Ireland would have done even better than they did under Big Jack had Liam Tuohy or Brian Kerr stayed on his coaching staff. Instead we got Maurice Setters, and, with due respect to him, the response to his methods wasn’t great…
“The training put on by Maurice Setters was cr*p… (He) hadn’t a clue.”
“A yes man, a bluffer.”
“(He) didn’t contribute a great deal… Lacklustre… Uninspiring… Seemed to make it up as he went along.”
The final quote is from Paul McGrath, the first two from (yep) Roy Keane.
Are the gazette trying ever so hard to get Dom and Jono back in the boro good books by writing a piece saying that all the players need to take a leaf out of howson’s book. (And that he was the creator of both boro goals) Really?
We were completely overran in midfield. Howson looked like a Sunday league player with misplaced passes, allowing the ball to bounce over him, getting caught in possession again and again. He was woeful. Yes he did well for the second goal but to say he did any more than that is stretching the truth.
Thus is also the same howson who at the end of the Norwich game, after a boro defeat, went over and applauded the norwich fans. Maybe he should realise who pays his wages now and start knuckling down and actually justifying his selection in our team because at the moment it’s midfield where we are being over ran by teams in the championship that have been put together for less than his transfer fee.
Also couldn’t agree more with FAA. Monks interview left me fuming. One defeat in 9!! Let’s spin those stats on their head. Two of those were in the cup and out of the seven league games we gained ten points. “I’d have taken that” said Garry. Well perhaps Garry doesn’t realise that we are trying to challenge at the top end of the league and not mid table or below.
I don’t really understand why Howson applauding his former club is upsetting. Wildschut did the same and said nice things about us on Twitter. Nice to see.
Howson hasn’t ripped up any trees yet, but by all accounts he’s improved away from home recently and played well on Saturday, backed up by the stats. Quite amusing to watch him create a goal whilst the pathetic boo boys got on the back of their own player. But as AV says, some people make their minds up early and nothing that happens after that will change it.
Played well on Saturday??
Were you there?
It was one of the worst performances I have ever seen by a boro player.
Completely and hopelessly out of his depth.
And not just his lack of ability there does not appear to be any real hunger or drive. It’s fine clapping fans if he’d put in a sterling performance and the boro had won. It is not acceptable when your performances have been woeful, your current employers are paying you a fortune and you go and applaud the team you used to play for who have just beaten your new team.
Talk about lacking in emotional intelligence. For me all it said was I’m at boro for a payday and unfortunately his performances or lack of them back this sentiment up.
I stand by this…if our midfield continues to be howson and Clayton we will finish in the bottom half of the table.
I do not have a go at him at the match, he’s a boro player and will get supported but I have seen nothing to suggest he is up to the level where he can get us promoted. Given that he has previously achieved this feat with Norwich and was actually their player of the year suggests he’s either struggling incredibly to adapt or maybe he’s not playing at the same level he once was for whatever reason. But either way he was terrible on Saturday and anyone who was at the match (apart from the gazette writers) would testify to the same thing.
I wasn’t at the game so can’t comment too much although from what I’ve read and a quick chat with a client today, the last two games have been pretty poor.
Looking at the formation stats that RR mentions, this confirms my view that there is too much tinkering both in formations and selection. Whilst I accept the requirement for some rotation, what we are seeing is too much. Any manager in any profession knows what their best team and players are and how to get the best from them. Not sure GM knows that yet which is a potential worry.
The new signings were positive although may be one striker too many and a couple of too similar players and most players want to play?
It is frustrating although typical Boro perhaps……..
I am not one for changing a manager so early in a season although Mr Monk does need to sort the situation out before we play Barnsley as I would not want a repeat of the Mogga scenario………
Not sure about some of GMs comments either, another ” it is what it is” ?
Finally, why o why do fans feel the need to boo their own team or players? I will admit to some less than positive remarks at times (my children will testify to that) but never boo MY team. Perhaps not applaud.
Anyway a long break now to regroup and press on.
UTB
Ps – great poem Ken and your earlier comments about not going to matches resonated with me as potentially I could go the same way if things don’t improve quickly, especially as I did not enjoy last season one bit.
Boro Phil
Howson applauding Norwich fans – boooo!
Adomah applauding Bristol City fans then ignoring young Boro fans outside the Riverside – deafening silence. Sorry AK’s fault for sending him to the stands after Derby, sorry, putting him on the naughty step, sorry bench then ignoring him. sorry, bringing him on as a sub.
Depends who you want to kick with subjective views.
I am not a supporter of the Gazette coverage but even they can come across some sensible comment even by accident.
Beware of incoming.
I decided not to post immediately I got home after the Brentford game because I might have typed something intemperate. I went to the pub instead, and felt rather better for it (although, of course, the regulars all knew the result and had fun, one after another, asking me how it had gone).
I thought we were poor against Norwich but we really plumbed the depths against Brentford. Yes, we lost against Norwich, yet came back from behind against Brentford and ended up with an undeserved point. But the Brentford performance was the worst I have seen in a long time. Comparisons were made, by my colleagues, about watching Boro under Strachan. It was depressing.
Again we started slowly, as if this has become a Boro tradition. Ben Gibson mentioned the slow starts after the previous game but it is clear nobody in the club has any idea how to stop this or, I assume, the steps would already have been taken. Players are left unmarked in our penalty area, as if they have some very contagious disease.
If the management does not know its best XI, if it does not know what is causing the problems we see in front of us, how can management put it right?
Dael Fry was dropped for the game. He had made a couple of costly mistakes in the last few games and therefore could have been criticised and, I guess, probably expected the axe to fall on his neck. It might be said that others had also made mistakes and that Fry was unlucky to have been singled out for a seat on the bench. As it turned out on Saturday, nearly everyone in the side had a poor game so, on the precedent shown in Fry’s case, we should expect about 9 changes for the next game.
I would say that Shotton’s debut game was as disjointed a performance as any debutant could ever have given. I started to grip the seat in concern every time he came near to the ball. Fry surely must be back for the next game. Britt’s touch was like an elephant – the ball bounces off him like it would rebound from a concrete wall. Passing was poor all round. I could go on, but it really is still depressing to recall it, I can understand that, in any team, some players might have a better game than others, but it seemed as if the whole team suffered from the same infection. I suppose Howson was less bad than others and that Braithwaite, not fully fit yet perhaps, could be described similarly. But, really, the rest of the team could be tarred with the same “inadequate” label on that performance.
There was booing, and quite a lot of it, at the end of the first half and at the end of the game. I agree that booing during the course of play is likely to be counter-productive. Yet at half time and full time, I suppose that can’t be said, and it should give the players pause for thought. I thought of booing but, in the end, didn’t. I would defend the right of people to boo, though. Especially bearing in mind the money spent and the poverty of the performance. Players want to be cheered if they do well. Booing might be said to be “feedback” and don’t some firms actively canvass feedback, good or bad?
I was modestly optimistic previously, I am much less optimistic now. It was just SO bad. I feel sorry that Werder came all this way to watch it.
.
So, what is the explanation? We were not playing Manchester City, not even Cardiff City. We can expect to lose games in every season. Even Manchester City, Chelsea and the “big teams” will lose some fixtures, against teams they might expect to beat.. Of course, for the most part, they WILL beat most of the teams they play. And, as has also been said before, if we are to achieve promotion (much less to smash the league) Boro will have to be as relatively good in the Championship as Manchester City are in the Premier League.
It would be a surprise if Brentford were to be challenging at the top end of the table next May, and the same can be said about Norwich City. Yet we struggled against both of them and secured one point from 6 against them, at home. It doesn’t bode well. Is it the players? Is it the formation? Is it the coaching? WELL, after spending millions, Steve Gibson is entitled to ask for an explanation and for someone to tell him what we plan to do, to put things right. If this carries on, there will be no reporters allowed into the Riverside because it is inevitable that awkward questions will be asked, again and again.
Saturday’s team was the closest to using the players GM has been importing since he arrived here, and is probably the team he wants to play, with only four of the players from last season in the starting eleven.
He waited a long time for Shotton so obviously really wanted him, but was fair enough to keep Dael in the team until Brentford. The first choice sub is Ashley Fletcher, so effectively there are eight of the players brought in by GM in the current ‘top twelve’ squad pecking order.
Saturday was also obviously the point when the players had been working for the longest time with GM and his staff on the training ground, so the point at which the effect of GM’s work with them should have been coming most strongly into effect.
We have been waiting for that accumulation of training to result in the team gelling or clicking successfully. We have been saying that the team has potential, but the teamwork isn’t strong enough to allow us to control the flow of games, but it must surely come soon.
The league table tells us that Brentford are one of the weaker teams in the division, although they may be improving.
In conclusion, it has to be said, however harsh it seems, that the fielding of his own ‘best’ team and the accumulation of training with him seems to have ended in Saturday’s performance, with players losing confidence and team play getting worse.
That raises frightening questions about where the season is going.
I think we do have to be careful not to get carried away. We all want to be a bit higher up the table but we are only 11 games in. After the Fulham game, I think we were reasonably happy with how things were going. Last week could have easily given us 4-6 points, fine margins and all that.
People are rightly concerned after Saturday (it was as bad a performance as I’ve seen in some time) but ultimately we played poorly and very nearly won it at the end. Let’s see what the next few matches bring before we get the pitchforks out.
If we hadnt dropped those 5 easy low hanging points we would have touched 3rd!!
I mentioned a week or so ago that I hadn’t heard of the word “clunky” and had wondered if it was some local colloquialism, but had it explained to me on this forum. I first heard it used by Anthony Vickers and since then he seems to use it repeatedly. Perhaps like a comedian it has now become his catchword! Or to use Spartak’s catchword, just saying like.
Borophil
It wasn’t just a poor performance on Saturday, this has been building for a number of games and instead of improvement we are seeing deterioration.
I commented after the Preston game that there were fundamental flaws in the side and if they were not addressed and corrected quickly then we would soon find ourselves out of touch not only with the top two sides but the play offs. Many others commented however that we should wait and see a bit longer and that ten games in would give a fuller picture!
The poor performances have however continued with a lucky win against QPR, a backs to the wall draw at Fulham, a defeat at home to Norwich and an undeserved point from the Brentford game which was dire.
For GM to spin this as only one defeat in nine and that it is just down to anxiety and set play mistakes which can be corrected this week is disingenuous on his part and shows little regard for supporters who know a rank bad performance when they see one on top of a string of previous poor performances.
He would have gained much more respect and support if he had admitted that apart from coming back from being behind, the team did not perform/function and they would have to sit down and assess why it is going wrong and then put it right.
I believe that new managers should be given time to impose their style on a team but he has had all of pre season and now eleven games to do so and rather than being a well organised unit looking capable of promotion we are in disarray and looking more like mid to lower table.
If this continues on through to the next window then it will be too late to sort out and gain promotion this year and I am not one who believes that we can build for a second push next year. For me it is now or never or face the possibility of more years in the lower tiers.
There is the tricky balance between wait and see or act now.
The two week break is a chance for the team and caching staff to regroup. The vast majority of the squad will be at Rockcliffe, I would hope there are several behind closed doors practice games building up teamwork and understanding.
If we carry on as we have been doing with slow starts and poor passing it will be a long run up to Christmas, then of course the ritual slump sets in.
If things don’t progress in October then Steve Gibson has some serious thinking to do.
Ian
Agree entirely. Whilst I have been posting critical views on performances to date, I take no pleasure in doing so and I am hoping like all Boro supporters that GM and the team can get their act together.
As you say, if we do not see positive progress during October then SG will have some serious thinking to do and I am not sure that “no action” is an option. 🤔
Ive been pretty quiet the last few days as I’m still smarting over Tuesdays and Saturdays performances.
It’s only one defeat you say. We are still in with a chance of promotion you reply!
Well let me say this I’m worried and so is Redcar Red we hav not seen any crisp passing of the ball or decent football even in glimpses to give us any hope.
There does not seem to be any organisation or methodology to our various team formations and the players on the field look confused as to where they should be playing.
We signed a £15m striker and he’s getting no support or quality balls for him to work with. Instead he’s trying to pick up scraps.
I reckon a month is all GM has got……
OFB
Ian, what have you seen so far in pre-season and league games to suggest that the two weeks that Monk will have now with the players is going to result in improvement in performances when over the last three games the team has gone from disappointing at Fulham to poor against Norwich to abysmal against Brentford. The trend is performances getting worse and Monk hasn’t been able to stop the rot.
I know what you are saying KP, but had we won both games this week (not beyond the realms of possibility despite how poorly we played) I think we’d have reflected better on the earlier games. Fulham becomes an excellent battling point and QPR a routine, comfortable win.
So, are we letting one awful performance cloud our judgements. (I didn’t think Norwich was too bad)
Monk is trying to be positive, I have no problem with that. I don’t think he is trying to dupe the fans.
I do agree though that if we had a disastrous October he would probably have to go or at least be considered (and I’m more patient than most when it comes to sacking managers!). Top 2 must be the target this year with the squad he has assembled. (and as we all know, Gibson has said as much)
QPR a routine comfortable win!
Not in this universe or any other. Where does being behind TWICE become a ‘routine comfortable win’? Not even in the wildest imagination of the Mad March Hare and his mate the Mad Hatter would that thought occur.
That’s it – I’m outta here! The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
To be honest I’ve never thought it realistic to believe that Boro could get automatic promotion this season, but I did think we could be successful via the playoffs. Just look at the list of clubs relegated from the Premier League since Boro in 2009 who have failed to get promotion:- Aston Villa, Birmingham, Blackburn, Blackpool, Bolton, Cardiff, Fulham, Portsmouth, Reading, Wigan & Wolves. Also Hull, Norwich & QPR who bounced back only to be relegated again. That leaves only three teams who have actually bounced back and are still in the Premier League:- Burnley, Newcastle & West Ham.
I do think sometimes that Boro fans have the notion that we are superior to most of those clubs and that our rightful place is in the Premier League, but I bet supporters of some of those clubs mentioned feel the same about their clubs, and maybe those of Derby, Leeds, Nottm Forest, & both Sheffield clubs (all relegated before 2009) also think their rightful place is in the Premier League. Historically our overall wins record against 12 of all those teams mentioned is inferior.
Just because Boro spent millions of pounds on some overrated players who are no better than those we already had from last season, in my book doesn’t mean we have the strongest squad in the Championship. Results certainly prove up to now we don’t even have the best team in the league. This is a tough league and I think a touch of realism is called for.
Spot on there Borophil – if we are talking about a team that could only hope for 11th place. HOwever if we are targetting top 6 then forget it – the results dont show that – they show we are middle of the table cannon fodder.
And a questionable goal where the ball may have gone out.
If we had managed two wins this week the it would only have been papering over the all too clear and widening cracks!
Perhaps. I just think had we won those games we wouldn’t be talking about any cracks.
BP, the reality is that we lost those games. What ifs are irrelevant.
If the worst happens, as many are predicting, does anybody see a ready made replacement? Before GM’s appointment, the debate on here centred on who we didn’t want: Pardew, Pearson and others. Well, Pearson’s out of the way but other suspects are still available. Any ideas?
I’m hoping that, perhaps with an assistant, GM can turn things around as SG will have one heck of a task finding a relacement that the Boro faithful will welcome with open arms.
Dont even think those thoughts, Steely. They are too depressing.
Methinks GM may even stay & we’ll get lots of spin about how the target for promo is actually next season and never was this.
God forbid!
Question will then be promotion next season from which league?
Sparta
The naked fear on this blog has nothing to do with missing promotion, and everything to do with missing the Championship next season(and I do not have to explain that fear to anyone)
We have done the unthinkable.
Just like our infamous Scottish friend.
We hired him and told him to sign who he wanted.
A properly run club would have spelled out the obvious.
We are going into the Champ.
We got automatic promo with these players
they have had a season in the Prem.
The defence were excellent
more than good enough for the Champ.
Your job is to tinker with the forward line only.
And to start you off, we have Bamford who is more than good enough for this league just to finish we all know the enormity of our blunder last Xmas.
I don’t particularly want to get rid of GM it’s really too early yet but he has to start making this squad into an effective team
OFB
If GM needed/needs an assistant then one has to ask why this was not addressed and an individual appointed when GM took up the reins.
He would have been in the driving seat at that time and would have been able to present SG with a list of of people he wanted as part of his back room team.
I think it is fair to conclude that GM felt that the team he brought in was sufficient for the task ahead – that remains to be seen.
Is Beattie acting as no 2 to GM.
One thought ran through my mind, it is a big empty space so took some catching. The last four managers have left just over a month and a half after transfer windows closed.
AK 16th March
Mogga 21st October
GS2 18th October
GS1 20th October
It seems that they are given a run of matches to turn things around with new players in place and then given the bad news.
We had better play well at Barnsley!
Hmmmm!
The Ides of March
And the Knives of October.
Now that’s interestin!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlpxOaQinE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxsLoxbxeug&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Or for Jarkko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkBS4zUjJZo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
🙂
I am fully aware that I may be in a minority of one here but I honestly don’t think team selections/tactics have been the major problem.
I recall scratching my head week after week with the XI’s AK (and Mogga) put out. Not so Monk.
The accusation of tinkering doesn’t hold true for me. Two changes against Brentford: Shotton for Fry (not a change I would have made but an understandable one given the difference in experience) and Braithwaite for Baker (a wholly correct bit of tinkering in my view).
Did that cost us two points? Absolutely not. In fact, the inclusion of Braithwaite probably gained us one point.
Other changes may have been reasonably frequent but not exactly left-field. They have been players with a serious claim replacing players with a serious claim.
Motivation, individual errors and slow starts – that’s a totally different story and where the problems lie in my opinion.
Ultimately it may, and probably does, come back to Monk. I agree with Ian that if we don’t see a major turnaround in results this month then SG will likely have to act.
However, there’s no point in change unless you’re changing to something better. I’m not sure there was anyone better than Monk available to us in the summer. Will there be in November?
Ken
Some fans seem to have a belief that we should romp the league. I am younger than yourself but we both know things don’t go smoothly in football. Too many variables.
The recruitment last year was doomed to failure, this summers looks better but it has to be seen on the field.
Should Monk be under pressure? Yes, he will be paid a small fortune. Should he be dismissed? I doubt he will be but someone needs a word in his ear but who will do it?
His honeymoon period is well and truly over, a continuation of the Brentford form could turn the Riverside toxic, don’t forget previous games either. I don’t buy in to the Sheff Utd disallowed goal being luck, the TV replays show the player was offside according to the rules. That is the end of the debate because there isn’t any argument. We have been unconvincing in general.
My sympathies go to Werdermouth having travelled so far and getting miserable fare. That is not forgetting the regulars at the Riverside.
Anyone who as been involved either playing or coaching/ managing a team or what ever you want to call it must have a clear idea in his own mind of how he wants to structure the team and know what each player can and cannot do regarding his own skill set.for the benefit of his own game and team play.
Let’s take Adama ,me I’d tell the lad I want you to get the ball and drive forward every time, make runs without the the ball that forces the defence on the backfoot looking for you.
That’s it, I would make sure the fullback and midfielder close to him,expect the counter if he is stopped.
Forget telling him to be everything he isn’t.
It’s called team management on the field.too many clubs have rocket scientist running things.
Adama has a very limited but very direct Skill set. A bit like a Formula One car, its designed for speed not green credentials or taking the kids out for the weekend. If we are to use Adama then use him as a weapon rather than merely include him in the line up.
My current beef is that GM has everyone back defending set pieces in the 18 yard box making it congested and difficult for Randolph to move and get off the ground. That is perfect for the opposition, a neutered Goalkeeper encased by bodies. Stick one player upfield and the opposition have to put two players on him. Make that one Player Adama and the opposition may even have to have a third set further back to try and get a yard or two on him. My preference would be to put two Players upfield as that would significantly clear out our box and provide relief when we do clear it unlike at present where it comes straight back at us. I understand that a crowded box also means its more difficult to get a clean strike at goal but overall I think having outlets and space for the Keeper to claim the ball would work in our favour more.
As regards GM departing any time soon I think he will be given more time to to sort things. The problem is his sorting hasn’t been effective and if anything things have got worse either because of or in spite of his actions. As BP points out the results were fine margins last week and had they went our way then things would look a lot rosier. The concern for me is that we have also had a few games where the fine margins have broke in our favour, e.g. the QPR in/out goal and the Blades was he/wasn’t he offside. Had they gone against us we would be 4 points worse off and that would then be a mini crisis equal with Hull in 17th place.
As Ian will say his paper shows that we won those two games and that is very true but for a side with our considerable talent to date there have been too many games that have been very close and hinged on 50/50 decisions. Nobody is going to smash the Championship but our expectations not unreasonably in my opinion looking at the squad individually is that we should at least put a dent in it.
GM doesn’t seem to have a preferred system or at least one that his team understands their roles and responsibilities in intuitively. That “synergy” is a lost asset in my opinion and something that AK used to good effect even though I disliked his system intensely. Saturday was the manifestation of what happens when you constantly change formation with a few personnel changes thrown in for good measure. Is part of it to try and accommodate the new arrivals as they “supposedly” are better than what we had therefore they must play? I wouldn’t like to think so but who knows, what I do know is that it isn’t working.
These two weeks present GM with the chance to settle things down and bring shape and order. If he doesn’t see that or do that he will be gone come Fireworks night. What shape he decides upon is up to him, maybe his preference or maybe based on the skills he has at his disposal. Conte as an example switched to three at the back last Season and I know GM dabbled with it once for twenty minutes against Preston at home which imploded but that doesn’t mean it can’t work. Likewise if he goes 4-1-3-2 and has a partner up front with Britt then thats fine but he has to have a plan and stick to it. Once he has his Plan A of course he can then have Plans B and C to change games but only when Plan A is set in concrete in the minds of his Players, its how AK initially quickly tightened up a suspect defence.
Separately in a week that saw Dael dropped its ironic that the news sites are now full of links with him to Everton, Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool (and others). Is that indicative of how good Dael is or how a shadow of himself Ben has been?
Brentford were leaving two players upfield during set pieces.
Some recommend viewing for the first team squad….
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nwjOtDyc-CA
Morning Sportsfans!
New day new challenges 🙂
With the world seemingly turning upside down over more than a year, Therasa May will announce the Conservative Party will become the New Conservative Party. She will tell us that they have embraced old socialist policies, tweak them and make them her own.
There will be a price cap on energy bills and more council houses built since the 2ndWW. What’s an old Socialist to do, ‘Vote New Conservative!’ lol – next up they will erect a statue to Tony Benn in CCHQ lol -glorious. I hear they are going to join hands at the end of their conference and sing the International and The Red Flag. I also heard they’re getting Corbyn and Sinn Fein to teach them the words.
Meanwhile, what do you do if you’ve recently had a big splurge of say £40 million and yer team looks like the yawning man on the early shift?
a) buy more players
b) sell more players
c) appoint Aggers as manager
d) say buggar it sack the manager and do the job yerself.
Happy days Sportsfans 🙂
My biggest worry right now is that the big clubs may come calling not just for Gibson, but Fry too. A readymade Bruce and Pallister anyone? Neither pick up many cards, are rock solid, and are rarely injured.
January sales, GHW!
What appens when yer teams a flop, yer chairman/owner has procrastinated and the young starlets are tempted by a club that will offer them EPL & Champions League footie? Not difficult to work out is it?
Shotton & Ayala at CB then, injuries allowing.
Now where is that new manager? Gilly is that your phone ringing?
Typical Boro spend £40 million and lose yer best young CB’s
UTB
I have totally missed that. Where did Fry and Gibbo go, Spartak? I remember talk about Ben going all summer but did not know he was sold after the window closed.
Typical rumours, nothing more. Relax ladies and gentlemen. As Bernie wrote today, there plenty of time to put the play right. I am not even thinking about panicking. This Boro, not Leeds or Sunderland.
Up the Boro!
Andy R, you’re not in a minority of one, there’s two of us, as I also don’t think team selections / tactics have been the major problem. I also don’t buy that the unknown “best team” and formation-juggling argument hold water either.
Apart from the Preston left-field one-off experiment all other selections / tactics in my opinion have been largely understandable. I might not have agreed with the exact personnel selected but I could see the logic, which hasn’t always been the case with previous managers. When changes have been made Defenders have still played at the back, Midfielders across the middle and Forwards upfront. Not much square-pegging in evidence to me.
As for a “best team” I think it’s fair to assume that pre-season training and friendly games give a manager a wealth of analysis on which to base his “best team” selections come the start of the season. Surely you start the season with your “best team” so injuries aside I’m assuming that the team GM started with was his best team. Indeed other than the injury to MB, and MdR being sold, the selections and tactics of the early side remained largely unchanged, no “tinkering” on show to me. Fast forward to now and seven of that early season side were in the last side (DR, CC, BG, JH, AC, MB, BA), and the other four have understandable reasons for inclusion. Some fans screamed for width so AT and MJ have come in, George was apparently struggling so Fabio is in and the other change, just once, is Shotton for Fry. The spine has remained intact.
The players are playing in positions they’ve always played in and they’re playing in formations that are very familiar but it’s getting the best out of them that’s the problem to me. We’ve had plenty of discussions on here before about how some managers are a “coach”, some a “man-manager / motivator”, some can do both and some need an assistant. I’d have hoped that during MFC’s Management selection process they’d know which one GM is, if they don’t then we really are in trouble.
Andy/Billog
I get where you are coming from and don’t necessarily disagree about midfielders being midfielders etc. but if we take say Clayts just as one example he has played as part of a two with Howson or with Grant and also played singularly as a “sweeper” in front of the two CB’s, dropping back and filling in for the CB’s as part of a back three at times. The problem is that if you are playing with two in midfield in one game then the next game with one the players have to think a lot more and its easier to be caught in two minds or anticipating that someone has your back when in fact they don’t as they are positioned elsewhere. Now of course they should know what position they are playing and if they have a partner or not but in the milliseconds of decision making that intuitive understanding is priceless. See also Traore on Saturday when he stood frozen instead of anticipating Christies forward pass.
If we take Shotton and Gibson on Saturday they looked at sixes and sevens, now that was due to a lack of real game time together but it highlights that unthinking intuition adds synergy. Another example is Baker, is he a wide player or a midfield player, same can be said for Downing and as for Britt he has had Gestede as part of a front two and also been ploughing a lone furrow. Another example was Friend when played in that calamitous back three at home to Preston when he was defending on the left side of defence but in a slightly different role to his norm. All playing in the general area of the pitch their chewing gum stickers claim but with changing roles and responsibilities.
Those fine margins are what open teams up and why AK’s side let so few goals in as they were a tightly knit, organised unit at the back with everyone knowing exactly what their role was and heaven help anyone who didn’t conform 100% (e.g. Albert). The Norwich goal last week with no RB and no RW covering the RB meant that Dael had to get across but our midfielders didn’t pick up the Norwich runners and effectively nobody was covering centrally for Dael.
The soft header that Brentford scored was because between Christie and Shotton and also Gibson and Shotton there was a lack of a relationship and understanding and who was picking up who and as a result their big CB sailed through our defence unchallenged at a set piece. Changing tactics and formations is one thing if you are chasing a game but my view is that we are causing unnecessary confusion by constantly changing formations and shape.
Now my big concern in all that is that Dael was clearly made the scapegoat last week and in fairness his dithering didn’t help the problem but my guess is that AK (and I’m no fan) would have interpreted the blame for that on a far wider scale than just one players hesitancy. A classic case of dealing with symptoms rather than causes.
Under AK there would be Clayts on one side and Grant on the other who would drift across getting ready to cover when Nsue or Friend went on a run as well as expecting the wide player be it Stuani or Albert to add cover. It didn’t always work of course but there were clear plans and responsibilities.
If you have just Clayts as DM in one match does he run across and try and cover both Full Backs or does he slot in at CB and then expect the CB to go out wide and if so what does he do when he has Grant back alongside him for the next game does he cover the Full Backs or does he drop back as a CB? Are the CB’s expecting him to drop back or are they anticipating him to go wide? In real time its milliseconds but all the top Coaches be they at Chelsea, Man United, Barca or Real etc. stick to a system and the players conform to that system.
GM’s system is an unknown to both the fans and the players alike at the minute but after 25% of the season gone that is not clever or good management. Again AK came in with a system and the players had to fit his system and his rules. not finding the best system for the players he had available at the club. I think GM is guilty of trying to keep his squad happy and involved, nice in theory but very costly in practice.
By all means settle on a system that suits the skill sets GM has available if thats what he wants but then stick to it so that understanding, continuity, responsibility, awareness and crucially synergy is built up. Once decided it then becomes much easier to put players into roles and pull them out for injuries, suspensions or fatigue. Until GM reaches that point we will have confusion and chaos regardless of how good on paper the squad is.
RR, as usual spot on
And now, from Belfast, it’s my Quote Of The Day.
Spartak, it’s your turn. These (slightly paraphrased) words were written in late 2015, if I’m right…
“I recall being at another cold, dark, wet and windy night’s match at the Riverside. With my treasure of a season ticket tucked safely away in an inside pocket close to my heart, I took up my seat in the gods looking down upon the executive section to my left.
“Opening up my shiny new match programme, I read eagerly the words of wisdom from Bryan Robson on the inside first page. He wrote that that evening, against Wimbledon, he was going to blood two new players from the academy. I was aghast.
“I’ve played in similar conditions on Teesside and I know that you simply grind your way through it. In my opinion it was no time, against such opposition, to try two young lads.
“At that point I concluded he didn’t have a clue.
“I didn’t renew my season ticket in disgust. I remember we lost. Wet through and thoroughly disheartened, I made my way home.
“I have been a cynic ever since. I have no confidence in the majority of managers that the Boro have appointed. And as Gareth Southgate said once, about Steve McClaren, it’s only the players that see them through to what little success they do get.
“I mean, can you imagine Brian Clough telling his Nottingham Forest side to go out and ‘enjoy’ their European Cup final? Of course not! But that’s what Robbo said to his Boro team, I believe, against Chelsea.”
For a while, I tried to work out what game against Wimbledon he meant. My guess is it was the 0-0 draw in the FA Cup, which was by all accounts an awful game. Both Chris Freestone and Keith O’Halloran played, alright.
That said, considering that an injury crisis was sweeping through the team, and they were in free fall – something Robbo had never explicitly had to previously deal with as a manager – I would cut him some slack.
Besides, trying young lads in the cup? It’s quite common these days. We’re enjoying watching Tavernier and Wing. And as for Freestone, my memories of his good interplay with Juninho at Old Trafford are still pretty fresh, twenty years on.
The odd bit of open mindedness helps, otherwise one becomes as stubborn as our previous boss was repeatedly believed to be.
AK wasn’t just believed to be stubborn, everyone knew he was, fact.
My point Simon, was that Robbo put out two young lads in the worst possible conditions. Their first shot at the big time in atrocious weather. The only thing he’d prove is that they could scrap for the ball and keep going.
Subsequently, we all know the conclusion. T Venables was brought in and results dramtically changed. Twasn’t so much about team selection or tactics, it was about the ability or not of the man in charge.
Enjoyed the read 😉
Redcar Red
I agree, players may be able to play in a role and do a job but is what it is, do a job. Doing it well is another matter, they play better in a certain role and with certain players.
Lee Dixon talks about players working in pairs together, centre backs in partnership. Right back with his centre half, same on the left. left back and left midfield and so on.
They work making sure they do their bit and it gels as a team
It comes back to Vic’s newest favourite word, no, not Zombie PM, clunky.
It only takes players to be a couple of percent off their game for the uncertainty to set in and spread throughout the team.
Hopefully they start back afresh.
I’ve been unable to post for a few days. It is alarming how quickly I have hot behind and the amount of reading I’ve had to do you catch up with you all.
Sorry to Werder having made the trip home ok witness that. Great match report again RR, many thanks.
However, it has to be said this entire blog had been stock full of intelligent, thoughtful, constructive criticism and opinion. So thanks to everyone and not forgetting our resident poet laureate for helping to lighten the mood.
I’ve not seen a full performance since the Sheffield Utd televised game do I am absolutely not fit to offer any different insight on the performances. So much good sense in here though, you would hope someone at the club monitors and feeds back on the way we (you) all see it. Good management in any discipline should seek out and make good use of advice from wherever it comes. No one can know all the answers all of the time, but good managers recognise the right answer when they see it.
Redcar Red seems to talk sense to me as to what Boro’s problems are, so why can’t Garry Monk see them? Furthermore, who is going to tell him?
Shall I tell him on Twitter ?
Well Ken I’ve taken notice of your post and sent Gary Monk all our comments on the blog let’s see if he reads any of them
Seriously?
DONE
I sent him the link to our latest Diasboro blog whether he reads it or not remains to be seen!
If you were a professional and you received unsolicited advice from some well meaning amateurs would you take any notice of it?
No I’d delete it!!!
But it made me feel better …
Powmill Naemore, I posed the question who’s going to put GM right before I saw your post. It seems to me the sooner an assistant manager/coach is appointed the better.
Fair play to you, RR – that was an excellent and well reasoned post. Well timed in the race for the 2017 Masterman’s I’d say!
Whilst GM’s changes have not been unreasonable or unfathomable, I think he is still experimenting and trying to find his best blend. Perhaps what we saw in the horror-show first half was a culmination of mini trial and errors, making a very obvious error overall.
I find GM to be a measured an astute young manager and I’m sure he is self-analysing as much as we are analysing him. He needs to come up with the right answer quickly now. It’s clear that we are only one or two poor performances and results away from serious turbulence.
Still, change is only worthwhile if it’s for the better.
Like many of us on here I have a few decades on GM in terms of management experience (and mistakes, some crackers as well). My Grandmother always used to say “you cant put an old head on young shoulders” and so it is with GM. The same was true with Robbo who in the end needed TV to come in and smooth off a few rough edges. Unfortunately in football bringing in a wise astute older head is usually seen as undermining rather than development and support which is a shame.
Most of us could see a need with AK when he became stubborn in our eyes but the reality was he didn’t have a sounding board or mentor to bounce ideas off or indeed someone he was willing to listen too which again is classic immature management (Immature as in experience and relative management years not saying that someone in their late 30’s early 40’s is immature as such). Gareth was exactly the same, even Mogga to a degree as he repeated his Celtic mistakes here.
Most Industries have management development programmes but Football seems to think just give an ex pro a tracksuit and a few weekends at Lilleshall and hey presto it should work a treat then scratch their heads when it all goes pear shaped. Other factors like personalities and man management skills are critically important perhaps more so even than organisation, training and tactics which is why I keep harping on like a stuck needle about John Adair and Action Centered Leadership (there are lots of other management theories out there as well).
Even understanding Maslow’s 1943 paper “A Theory of Human Motivation” is a valuable tool in understanding workforces generally and their complex behavioural patterns including why some Footballers who apparently have it all push the self destruct button. Its not as bizarre as some would think which is why Best, Gazza, and many others we can reel off came unstuck despite incredible talent and wealth. A certain ex England International in the North West now is a brilliant example. A beautiful, kind, loving wife and family but still can’t resist pushing that button. If his new Manager doesn’t get to grips with him quickly the slope will be a spectacular fall from grace. How on earth is a manager in Football going to learn, understand and use that knowledge on and off the pitch and have it in place by forty years of age? Who is going to take a seat with a view from a distance and provide feedback and guidance?
Mourinho learnt a lot from Bobby Robson, two completely different and contrasting styles if ever there was one but the wisdom and insight was there from an early start which permitted Jose to progress and to a certain degree pass knowledge on to AK who again had his own twist on things. Passing skill on is an entirely different training ability to passing knowledge on and one without the other inevitably results in failure eventually.
I think GM can be a great Manager but he needs an elder to guide him as at his relatively tender years for management he is not not going to make mistakes. To hope otherwise is flawed and therein lies the problem and is perhaps at the root of what irks Spartak so much at times with SG.
There are some excellent posts above, particularly that of RR who so eloquently explains the dilemmas faced by some of last seasons most reliable players in this seasons formations built on shifting sands. That being said, I thought to add my own angle.
My biggest issue with Monk Boro is that i don’t think GM has decided what he wants us to be yet. Are we a high-pressing, swift-transitioning attacking machine. A tight-backed counter-attacking unit or a bully-beef take-the-game-to-em expensively assembled bunch of swaggerers. I was musing to myself that dissatisfaction must be high if AK is slipping back into the minds of posters, particularly after last season’s debacle, but I’m afraid he slips into my own thoughts to.
I liked Championship-version AK Boro. And the reason I liked us so much was because we had an identity. An identity which, in my opinion, resonated exactly with much of what I consider Teesside and Teessiders to be. Obstinate, obdurate and rarely obliging. I don’t consider these bad qualities, they are actually quintessential to what defines us as a region and our history. Teessiders are some of the most straight-forward and straight-talking people you are likely to meet. We look at life through the prism of what it means to us, hard industry, hard blokes and hard work. We can be the most self-depreciating people on earth, but if anyone south of Grantham services dares tell us that we live in a crap-heap our chests harden and we will not stand for it.
And that is where I fell for AK Boro. AK Boro were like real Boro. We weren’t giving you owt for free, and if you wanted 3 points you damn well better work for them. If you wanted to beat us, well give us your best shot and see where you get. And better than that, AK Boro specialised in a type of win which made you cackle at how we must have annoyed and frustrated the opposition. Scoring inside 5 minutes at Carrow Road and then standing straight-backed for the next 85, repelling everything that came and walking away with 3 points? Check. Win at Hillsborough? Check. Last minute goal to put the kibosh on a promotion rival (Hull)? Check. Time and time again AK Boro fired my black humour and made me chuckle at how uncompromising and hard we were. At how obstinate, obdurate and rarely obliging.
But what, then, is Monk Boro? Monk Leeds sounded like AK Boro, hard to beat, grinding out wins. What then Monk Boro? Is there a sub-conscious, or even conscious attempt to set himself apart from AK Boro? Does he see an opportunity to mould the team and way of play he’s always wanted? Who knows, and, to my earlier point, I don’t think Monk has decided either. I only hope that when he does it will be a Monk Boro that can get the blood pumping in my veins and can make me laugh after 10mins of a blustery Tuesday night game that we’ve already put to bed with an early goal.
Great comment, RR. I think we can all learn from this comment. Brilliant.
I don’t think Monk needs advice what is the problem. But as RR said, it is how to react to them. I think it is as Bernie wrote that you go back to basics. As always do not comlicate it too much. This is not rocket science.
I think the man management was Monk’s best part. Hence I was thinking he might need an assistant manager who is good on the training ground as well as during matches. Steve Agnew anyone?
Well, let’s hope this is just a temporary slip in form. Action needs to be taken but don’t panic. I have never seen the idea of changing manager too often like Leeds were doing during the previous owner. A team needs time to get to know new personnel and again I refer to Bernie who talks about Up to 14 matches to gel. And he should know.
This is football again and eleven players work a bit differently than an office or factory team of workers. Every desision is made instantly without an possibility to ask the manager nor a college. Hence it is interesting.
Up the Boro!
Well back home in Germany and we probably won’t see a Boro performance as bad as that for quite some time – probably Easter when I visit again no doubt.
Whilst Garry Monk contemplates how to get Boro playing better, more consistently and winning games I’m sure he won’t be short of advice. Although I haven’t had time to read through the comments of the last few days, I’m sure someone will have mentioned that the players need to shoulder a large share of the responsibility for basic things like poor passing, unforced errors and just bad decision making.
I think Monk has shown this season that he knows how to read a game and is not shy when it comes to making changes to have a positive effect on matches. I’m more of the view that some of our signings have been hyped-up to be better than they are just because of their price tag. For example, Assombalonga doesn’t look a complete centre-forward by any stretch given his Championship price ticket – he’s not got a good first touch, his passing is average, isn’t great in the air and has shown a lack of coolness in many of his one-on-one’s in front of goal.
What Monk has to do in these two weeks is just make an honest assessment of which of his players are likely to perform best in the various positions – whether he signed them or not. Then find the best shape that lets them play effectively and forget price-tags and reputations.
It seems the team are lacking confidence and I wonder if they believed the hype themselves about having the best squad in the league – given the number of players who’ve publicly expressed that it’s just a matter of time before it all clicks. I’m seeing signs of complacency and they need to be taking to the pitch on the front foot with a lot more urgency in their game – they shouldn’t expect to win games they should actually be fully focused and determined to go out and beat the opposition.
Let’s hope they don’t need anymore wake-up calls – Garry Monk included.
Werder
I think you should stick to Diasboro and only come home during international breaks and the close season if the Brentford game is the result of your presence.
I think we should launch a campaign to get Werder added to the Dom and Jonno list! 🙂
I agree with most of the comments.
It got me reminiscing about big Jacks promotion team and how they kept things simple. I was only twelve at the time but it seemed that every time we cleared the ball after defending, Souness would spray the ball diagonally over the half way line for Mills or Spike to charge to the corner, whip in a cross for Foggen or Hickton to bury it.
Don’t remember much tippy tappy metronome stuff but maybe its all just foam handed memories.
We have a talented squad and could have entered two teams and both finish top six with the right guidance.
I think that could be the problem and that a few ego’s have been bruised.
My advice to GM:
1. Pick a suitable system and stick to it
2. Pick your best eleven and stick with them
3. Experiments only from the bench as legs tire or when game chasing
4. Don’t be afraid to embraced the best aspects/players of AK’s tenure
5. Keep it simple!
It really is a simple game as proved by Preston and Brentford who played us off the park with a team of journey men, showing aggression, determination, good organisation and a burning desire not to get beat.
If things dont improve I would expect SG to be tapping Monk on the shoulder by the end of the month.
My favourite Boro team other tactic was ball over the top from Souness or Murdoch for Foggon to run on from the half way line
Foggon was a 100 yard champion sprinter and Big jack latched onto this and developed this tactic to score goals.
No one could catch the Flying Pig and perhaps we should use the same tactic with Traore
Hope this 2 week break takes effect on the training ground and more importantly the league games
Don’t know how you can be old billy when you were a teenager then because I was married and our eldest son was born in 73!
So I must be ancient Bob!
You’re only as old as you feel Bob…or should that be ..
No let’s not go there 😉
Do we have an experienced player capable of picking out Souness type passes from the middle of the park and if so do we have some pace to exploit that on the flanks?
Answers to GM on a Post Card please.
Stewart Downing and any choice(s) from Traore, Fletcher and Johnston
As we all know confidence plays a large part in a team’s performance, be that overconfidence or under confidence. I think originally some of our players were guilty of the former having probably believed all the hype about our being favourites for promotion. After all some of them may have thought how successful they had been against the better teams in the Championship two seasons ago. That overconfidence was also possibly the reason they sometimes played badly against the lower placed teams in their promotion season – a double edged sword.
Now it would appear that the team is suffering from under confidence, and that is probably because of the changes of personnel and formations from game to game. Under Karanka they had a structured formation and every member of the team knew what their function was, as did substitute players. Yes, Karanka was inflexible and only had a plan A, but it would seem that under Monk players have become confused as to what their functions are because there have been too many alternative formations tried. It also doesn’t help the teams confidence when new players are introduced on a regular basis, because players are not forming the same partnerships with each other for more than a couple of matches at a time.
In my opinion I think Monk has become a tinkerman, and that he is culpable for the lack of confidence in his players. As I mentioned before, the sooner he appoints an assistant and gets a settled team the better, for at the moment I can’t see their being any improvement.
I think Bernie is right today in saying that GM needs to go back to basics with the squad, get them thoroughly drilled and organised in how he wants them to play.
After that, he has a choice of whether to continue with full-on pace/power/overwhelm, or whether to bring in some of the more technical players who are better on the ball and have higher football intelligence – such as PB, Grant, Lewis and Stewy. With one or more of them linking with players like Braithwaite, we should be able to gain more control over the ball, irrespective of whether the team pattern is working, because those players are more resourceful in finding a way to retain possession and making things up as they go along.
Don’t get me wrong, I was all for getting pace and dynamism into the team after last season. But the present approach or team balance does not seem to be working. Maybe more practice and drilling will make it work? Not convinced.
With Britt, Ashley Fletcher and Adama, when they get the ball one of two things is most likely to happen – they create danger, or they are dispossessed. Their strengths do not lie with keeping a move going through touch, vision or subtlety. Disappointingly, Marvin Johnson’s form seemed to dip against Brentford, with real concerns about the quality of his passing.
Grant may be needed in the side as a motivator, leader and organiser who can fire the team up when things are slipping, and bark instructions when players are not doing the right things.
For example, I assume that GM is sending the side out to play with a high tempo, but up to the first Brentford goal there were a series of moments when the ball went dead and Boro players actually delayed the play and slowed the tempo of the game deliberately. Either GM isn’t getting his message across, or we were trying to get Brentford to think, “Hey, this is pretty comfortable – we could be onto something here!”
Just noticed OFB sent to a link for Diasboro to Gary Monk, that will be interesting. I suspect he wont even give it a second thought.
Just in case, I think Gary Monk is doing a great job.
Ian
Should have been a politician!
I think he could do a great job. Garry that is not Ian!
Ian
You don’t think he’s going to come after us ?
I think he is the right man for the job
I’ve met him spoken to him and he is very personable and nice saying all the right things
All the staff at the Boro like him and say he’s completely different to Karanka in his approach and how he deals with people
The important thing though is
POINTS ON THE BOARD AND PROMOTION!!!
OFB
Smoggyinexile makes some good points about AK’s Championship Boro. His style was still dour but if you are winning games and top or thereabouts of the league then acceptance is easier. The formula was achieving the desired objective so whilst the manner of it wasn’t pretty it satisfied our hopes and expectations. Binary wins are watchable if the progress in the league table is there for all to see. Coming home after watching Boro grab another winner in the 90th+ minute meant the turgid fayre on offer ended in late euphoria so walking out of the Riverside with adrenalin still coursing around our veins made it more palatable.
Had the same tactical plan worked in the Premiership then AK would still be around. The problem was that it didn’t, that the Premiership level is more sophisticated and opponents have greater skill sets capable of unpicking the most complex of locks. The abject lack of addressing any potency at the opposite end done for us as it became clear that keeping the goals against column down was futile if we couldn’t score or even threaten at the other end. It wasn’t working and AK had no other plan or tactic. Aggers came in and desperately tried something different in a last throw of the dice but change takes time to evolve, something that by then Boro didn’t have. It didn’t help (AK or Aggers) that we didn’t recruit the type or the quality needed to remedy that in January and in effect the flag to abandon ship was raised then. Albeit a very expensive flag costing well over ten million!
Fast forward to today and it can be not unreasonably argued that GM also needs time to launch his new look Boro although the same argument looks a little flawed when you look at Wolves and Leeds. The glaring difference is that AK arrived with a closed mindset and methodology, it was going to be the way he believes the game should be played and everyone had to learn to play their part as most did. There were a few like Albert and Rhodes who didn’t quite fit the AK mould but could at least function within the obvious constraints and arguably in the minds of many achieved collectively because of it rather than in spite of it. Sheffield United have carried on from last season because of an organised and systematic approach which brought them success which their players buy into, know their roles and requirements (back to the value of intuition and synergy).
I don’t think people are looking back at AK’s tenure through rose tinted glasses but rather more an appreciation of what planning does in any given situation. “Perfect Planning Prevents Poor Performances” so it is said and one thing about AK is that he was methodical and meticulous to a point where it blinkered him to other possibilities in my opinion. What we are currently seeing now is a lack of structure created by seemingly ever changing tactical set ups none of which have really convincingly worked (Bolton away aside). If it has transmitted to the Fans already the Players will be of a similar opinion (we can probably draw up a list of the obvious Rockliffe eyebrow raisers) and Saturday was the manifestation of “what the ………… is going on”. I believe it wasn’t so much anxiety as exasperation and frustration building between team mates who were all over the place and they knew it. I also suspect that one or two who also know it may already have said as much.
You missed a P out of your planning mantra
I had considered it but that I’d keep it dead classy like!
Great reading, everyone.
Polishing off my next Talking Point this morning, will let you all know when it’s submitted. Many of your comments relate to the topic/s I’m addressing.
Best and Gascogne were not wayward souls but alcoholics, this is as much an illness as an addiction and man management wouldn’t have saved either of them.
With regard to all of the management techniques, having spent many years working for an American company, there are few I haven’t seen. I firmly believe it can’t be taught, and is a natural ability.
Yes, you can get some good advice and techniques to deal with certain scenarios, but ultimately it comes down to a natural affinity with the people working under you.
If it was easy to learn, then everyone would be doing it, this is why a good manager is worth a lot. However, ultimately it is down to your personnel. Good players make management easy.
Unfortunately the biggest problem managers face is the intelligence level of those they are managing. A friend of mine used to say “ you can’t educate pork”.
Best and Gazza are indeed extreme talents and extreme examples of the demon drink but there others who have battled and made a longer career albeit came close to ending in the gutter a few times along the way with our own magic man being one of them. The hand of God himself liked to down a bottle of Whisky every night allegedly along with other substance addiction.
Paul McGrath had his struggles with more than just injuries as did Tony Addams, Kenny Sansom and many others before them e.g. Bowles, Supermac and Geavsie from the previous generation. “He needs to improve, to drink less.” was the advice given to Andy Carroll by England’s manager at the time Fabio Capello. Carroll is still playing although beset by injuries which I would guess could be connected. If its foreseeable it may not be preventable but it can at least be managed.
Having vast wealth and lots of boring hours to fill can be difficult for many young footballers and Maslow as I mentioned previously addresses man’s craving to create and destroy something he loves and not necessarily always through alcohol or gambling. When Paul McGhee was manager of Wolves after a particularly unimpressive display he said “If they have four or five beers on a Saturday night, they should have three or four instead”, not exactly the greatest management remark in my opinion and then of course there’s Robbo who during his time here clearly didn’t see it as a problem.
A lot of young lads are catapulted into fame and fortune and don’t know how to cope and behave and some resort to alcohol as a means of “fitting in”, from there it can spiral. Others use it as a coping mechanism when their careers or personal lives take a stumble. I don’t subscribe that they can’t be saved but do accept that it reaches a point where it is past saving them. Key is to intervene before it becomes that extreme and a lost cause, managers and clubs have that responsibility even if only morally.
There has unfortunately always been a close relationship between football and alcohol. In the early days football teams often got changed in local pubs playing on nearby pitches. The Makems used to play on a pitch or field owned by the Blue House Inn. Everton played on a pitch provided by esteemed Merseyside brewer John Houlding. When the club had a fall out with Houlding he established Liverpool football club.
West Ham United used to be known as the Teetotallers due to a chap named Arnold Hills who was a member of the Temperance society. The Hammers evolved from the Thames Ironworks team and in 1895 Hills insisted that all his players were teetotal and non-smokers. In those days players had great worries that an injury would result in them being unable to work for the Thames Iron Works Company so the club committee decided to insure their players against loss of wages in the result of an injury. The club committee however issued the players with a warning that anyone who had been injured in a match had to be home by 8.p.m. every evening to ensure that they didn’t over indulge.
Newton Heath were seriously in debt in 1902 facing a winding-up order and at a shareholders’ meeting it was announced that John Henry Davies, was willing to takeover the club’s debts. The Football League approved the plan and Newton Heath then became Manchester United. The same John Henry Davies was a Brewer. Herbert Chapman of Arsenal used to ask players before signing them if they smoked or drank. Eddie Hapgood later wrote in his autobiography about the impact Chapman had on him and that as a consequence he neither smoked or drank during his playing career.
There are like Gazza and Best many sad stories about footballers and booze and none more so than Hughie Gallacher the former Scotland and Newcastle striker. Spending just about all of his free time in a boozer he left his wife for the 17 year old daughter of a Landlord and his resulting divorce settlement wiped him out so he “persuaded” Newcastle to sell him to Chelsea for £10,000 in 1930 causing ructions with the Toon army about selling their best asset.
Gallacher was accused in one game of being drunk and disorderly on the pitch but claimed that he was simply using whisky and water as a mouthwash. He had problems with the drink all through his life and sadly in 1957 he was to appear in Gateshead magistrate’s court over the alleged assault and maltreatment of his 14-year-old daughter. He did not appear in court as the day before he stepped in front of the York to Edinburgh express.
The whole system is rigged for the benefit of the top wealthiest teams in the country,it the whole thing started in Italy with the introduction of this stupid transfer window garbage.it allowed the big clubs to inflate prices and sign the best players .
Most clubs end up signing the ones that are left ,because clubs insist on waiting to the last day when people panic and pay over the odds because there is no time left.
Clubs have to sign more players than they need ,in case of injuries, in the past you could play a youngster untill maybe you could go out and replace the first teamer if necessary.
You end up with half the squad happy the others not, in the past you could move them on almost immediately, now your stuck.
Back to the old way I say when deadline day was March.
I’ve brought this up in the past,it just bugs me to death ,what the big shots have done to pack their own pockets.
UTB
There’s a close relationship between football and alcohol with me as well.
Basically, I watch Boro play and immediately afterwards I feel a burning need to consume as much alcohol as possible, as quickly as possible.
Ancient Bob,
What’s in a name
Sorry I have given the impression of an old man.
After following Boro for over 40 years I do sometimes wonder if it should come with a health warning..
Looking forward to GM making his diasboro debut
Just seen that AV has done something along similar lines to the First Ten Games table in my Brentford match preview – though he’s instead looked back at the last six seasons at the top 12 teams in the table after eleven games to see whether those at the top remain at the top.
Link to AV’s article
AV concluded that “Being in the automatic spots at this stage is no guarantee of success and being outside the play-off places is no real impediment to promotion.”
Though what his tables actually show is that other than Bournemouth and Reading who made late runs, the other ten teams who ended up gaining automatic promotion were at this stage a maximum of three points from the automatic spots, with 7 teams just a point or less from the top two:
2016-17 Newcastle (1pt) Brighton (2pts)
2015-16 Burnley (0pts) Boro (0pts)
2014-15 Bournemouth (6pts) Watford (0pts)
2013-14 Leicester (3pts) Burnley (0pts)
2012-13 Cardiff (0pts) Hull (3pts)
2011-12 Reading (6pts) Southampton (0pts)
To put that into context, Boro are currently 7 points from an automatic spot, which I would conclude is perhaps showing that the playoffs are increasingly becoming the target rather than the top two – though clearly that is only a statistically rather than mathematically our most likely target. Though Boro would usurp both Bournemouth and Reading’s feat by a point if we went up automatically.
Werder
I think what it tells us is what we know already.
A few of us think don’t worry plenty of time, some have all but given up and the majority saying it would be a good idea to win quite a few matches before the month is out.
Did I ever mention points on the board?
Ian, are the ones who have “all but given up” those like me who believe Monk is not up to the job and will take us nowhere? If so, I can assure you that the last thing we have done is give up. We could sit quietly and say nothing but we persist in making our point because we believe that it is in the best interests of the club and its fans.
No, the given up is not about the fans but their thoughts about the incumbents at MFC. Boro fans never give up, we always support.
Cripes. How long is it since I visited the blog? It’s taken me an age to catch up. Some great contributions, as ever. I always align with RR’s view of things.
The Management thing is an interesting one. It’s clear that many of us have first hand management experience and have witnessed many, usually American ideas, being introduced to define management style, customer focus and good working practices. It was a regular thing in the Steel industry.
I accept that Football management is a totally different animal and a different approach may be necessary but I agree with RR that getting a coaching badge does fall short of being ready for management. Traditionally, the Football Manager would learn his trade as a coach and progress into management via the lower leagues. I guess this equates to apprentices working up to becoming Engineers in Industry. That seemed to work.
Not sure what the answer is but RR’ s comments gave me pause for thought. I believe we all want GM to succeed. I hope that is the case.
I guess the problem with looking at the stats early in the season is that it tends to prove both sides of the argument – but yes getting the points on the board is the only guaranteed method of moving up the table.
My problem at the moment is that I keep hearing in my head last season’s Exmil Challenge winner, Paulista Park’s pre-season prediction…
My prediction is that we’ll start poorly, take an age to adapt to our new style and be well adrift of the pack before finishing well and making a late push for the play-offs. Unfortunately there are a number of clubs with proven championship managers who who have had the chance to establish their squads and their way of playing and are much better placed to mount a promotion bid than Boro. We are playing catch up and may have to wait until next season before Gibson’s considerable investment in Monk bears fruit. Our fans have the patience to cope with that don’t they?
He went for 7th spot for Boro – though the only thing that gives me hope is that he also had Villa and Fulham as the automatic promotion teams! Having said that I just noticed both of those teams are now above us with Villa now up to 7th.
Werder
I think the stats produced by AV and yourself tend to back up Graham Taylors ten game test. Generally you finish in the same part of the table as you are now.
Exceptions do occur, the problem we have is that history tells us enough teams stay the course to make it difficult for teams in the middle of the pack to get in to the top two.
Basically, we cannot afford to lose any more ground. It will get harder and harder to make it up.
If our promotion season is anything to go by, I remember after the last gasp win against hull, Brighton and Burnley didn’t drop too many points in the last eight games or so. Can’t remember either of them getting beat. Neither did we.
I don’t know where I am going with this as I can’t see us being in a position to make a challenge this season.
Oh, I’ve just depressed myself again.
And me I’ll drink to that !
I’ve already said that I don’t think GM has chopped and changed as extensively as others have seen it but in trying to understand why he might have done so could it be that we are experiencing the legacy of his Leeds sides’ failings last season. During the run-in Leeds were comfortably in the play-off places then imploded towards the end, many of their fans identified the root cause of the implosion as an over reliance on Plan A (keep it tight and C.Wood will get the winner) and a total lack of a Plan B. Teams worked out a way to stop them and GM didn’t have an answer. But, maybe he did have an answer but frustratingly for him didn’t have a squad of players to implement it. As a young manager he may have promised himself not to fall into that trap again, next time he would need a bigger squad of better (i.e. more expensive) players to give him greater options to match his own growing managerial experience.
Along came Boro with a chequebook to fulfill his need for options with a transfer policy of which GM actually said was aimed towards recruiting flexible players who are comfortable playing in a number of positions and systems. But, having been burned by being too inflexible has he now overplayed it and gone too far the other way, maybe understandable if he has.
billog72
I think we al like to second guess what takes place, The answer is in the squad and the coaching team.
Or not!
Just sayin like
🙂
Naughty!
Points deduction? Relegation – two divisions?
Sort that one out FA suits.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/oct/05/newcastle-united-investigated-abuse-tax-system
Spurs were once deducted 12 points and excluded from the FA cup for financial irregularities back in 1994 but the penalty was reduced to just a £1.5m fine on appeal. Though any individual found guilty of tax evasion or tax fraud in theory faces jail – though many a famous footballer faced with potential jail sentences often seem to avoid punishment by paying up what they owe.
I suspect Newcastle will get a fine at most as they deny the charges and the investigator in the Guardian used the word ‘believe’ in relation to doubting the validity of player contracts – this probably means they can’t prove outright that they are completely false contracts.
They’ll probably say it’s tje Boros fault and relegate us
I thought that during another international break some of you might like to share some more memories with me about the Boro, and first of all the FA Cup comes to mind.Prior to the Second World War Boro had only ever reached the quarterfinals once and that was in 1936 when they lost away to Grimsby Town 1-3. Considering they had first entered in 1883 that was a dismal record. Boro did again reach the quarterfinals in 1947 but lost again away to Burnley 0-1 in a replay following the controversial 1-1 draw at Ayresome Park.
In fact Boro didn’t reach the quarterfinals again until 1970, nearly 90 years of failure. However that year started a remarkable turn in fortunes with 12 appearances since then including two semifinal appearances and of course one final appearance. Many of you will remember these matches:-
1970 Away Manchester United 1-2 replay after 1-1 draw
1975 Away Birmingham City 0-1
1977 Away Liverpool 0-2
1978 Away Leyton Orient 1-2 replay after 0-0 draw
1981 Away Wolves 1-3 (aet) replay after 1-1 draw
1997 Away Derby County 2-0 (the year we reached the final)
2002 Home Everton 3-0 (the year we reached the semifinal)
2006 Home Charlton Athletic 4-2 (again reaching the semifinal)
2007 Away Manchester United 0-1 replay after 2-2 draw
2008 Home Cardiff City 0-2
2009 Away Everton 1-2
2017 Home Manchester City 0-2
Typically though Boro have only ever won twice at home in the quarterfinals, but that 1947 match still rankles among people of my generation. Boro on a mud path of a pitch had a perfectly good goal disallowed, but it was the nature of Burnley’s late equaliser that caused the controversy. A Burnley forward (I think from memory it might have been Johnny Morris) was lying on the floor close to the goal line and pushed the ball over the line with his hand. The Boro defenders laughed at the cheek of it but couldn’t believe it when the referee awarded the goal. Second Division Burnley having won the replay, reached the final where they lost 0-1 to Charlton Athletic. At the time Boro were favourites at that stage to win the Cup, as they probably were in 2008 when again they lost at home to a Championship team Cardiff City.
We all remember that Cardiff defeat when Boro played almost as badly as they did against Brentford last week. Thirty years earlier we were unable to score at home to Leyton Orient and lost the replay, but the match that really scuppered us was the 1981 replay at Wolverhampton which signalled the break up of the team resulting in relegation the following season and became the precursor of liquidation.
It is strange that Boro should have such a good record in the FA Cup in recent years after failing so badly until 1970, and maybe some consolation can be found in the fact that the teams that caused those four successive defeats from 2006/09 all became beaten finalists. So in recent times Boro could possibly have won the Cup once or twice, but league matches in the old First Division paint a different story.
In 1913/14 Boro finished 3rd but eight points behind the champions Blackburn Rovers, 5th in 1937/38 six points behind Arsenal, 4th in 1938/39 but ten points behind Everton, and 7th in 1974/75 but only five points behind the Champions Derby County in one of the tightest finishes where if Boro had beaten Derby at home in match 38 (1-1 after leading 1-0 at halftime) and drawn the next two away matches (0-1 Leicester and 0-2 Wolves both goalless at halftime) and when only two points were awarded for a win, they would have had 51 points (the same as Liverpool and Ipswich) and might have finished champions. That of course was Jack Charlton’s second season as manager following promotion the previous season in his first.
However in all those seasons Boro never actually led the table at any time. Boro have briefly led the First Division table in the early stages in 1976/77 (finished 9th) and 1993/94 (finished 9th), but the only time that they have led as late as Christmas was in 1950/51 (finished 6th) and I’ll look at that season in greater detail in the future.
Nice work Ken,
I was at the Anfield match in 77, to be honest we expected to get beat but we gave it a good go that day. I seem to remember Alf Wood has a good goal disallowed.
The painful match was Wolves away, having failed to beat them at home when they hadn’t won away all season and we hadn’t lost at home all season. An early Andy Gray goal saw us chasing the game. Spike got the equaliser late on and so we were off to Molineux for the replay. Beaten 4-2, it was a long train journey back to Teesside.
The defeat left me devastated, how could we have lost that quarter final?
This was one of my worst typical Boro memories. shortly thereafter the team was broken up and relegated.
Did Andy Gray play for Aston Villa later?
I remember him having a blog in the Shoot! Magazine. And of course our gordon McQueen wrote in that nagazie, too. It is how I practiced my English outside the school class room!
Last year I finally met Gordon in a pub on Teesside and thanked him for teaching me some English!
Up the Boro!
Jarkko,
Andy played for villa before he moved to Wolves.
Good job you got the English from the magazine and not from Gordon personally. Being Scottish his accent could have set you back years.
He may be McQueen but he hardly speaks the Queens English.
What to do on a weekend without football.
Well its a beautiful morning here in Oz, we are going to dinner with friends tonight and may go to the beach with the dogs tomorrow. Should I paint the garage door on Sunday or should we go to the park, the spring wild flowers are in full bloom.
The perfect weekend, what could be missing?
Signing up to the latest club on Ifollow.
Watching a poor stream that frustratingly keeps cutting out
Watching a poor team that frustratingly keeps giving the ball away
Trying to work out what system the team are trying to play
Passing backward from a free kick in a promising position
Hitting the first defender from corner kicks
Hitting nobody from corner kicks
Waiting for the customary defensive lapse
Deciding which alcoholic beverage is appropriate at half time (and how much)
Waiting for the substitutes (its rarely who you want)
Watching the last 10 minutes through fingers on face
Despair at the final whistle, anger at the final whistle
Listening to comments from players and staff (its coming, someone will get a good hiding one of these days blah blah).
At least this weekend cannot be ruined by football
(why do we put ourselves through it?)
Old Billy – your missing perfect week-end is identical to ours. When you see it listed out like that its like your soul is there for all to see. Boro through and through.
Haircut this weekend and a few jobs – maybe take the boss shopping.
Old Billy, I have started a 1500-piece puzzle with my wife. We got it as a Xmas present from our doughter. It is quite facinating actually. Hadn’t done one for over 35 years or so.
Next week we will go to Naples. So we actually miss the Barnsley match. But we are celebrating a 30-year marrige. I cannot remember how many time we have been to Teesside to see Boro – must be about 20 times.
Someone inside me is still wondering if we should have gone to Barnsley instead. But perhaps some things are more important than Boro. Anyway they play badly at the moment and I read in here that the current manager is rubbish anyway.
Up the Boro!
Jarkko
Congratulations on your 30th wedding anniversary you have to get your priorities right !
It’s our 48th anniversary on the 13th so we shall be celebrating too bit not going to Naples. We will probably go to Iceland (or Aldi) and bit some food for the weekend
Enjoy and let’s hope we win!
OFB
Bob,
You must be the first one up in England!
Congratulations on your anniversary.
Yes up and at em make the most of the day.
Thanks for the best wishes.
Wasn’t the England game dire last night ?
Did you manage to see it ?
It was just like watching the Boro!
You, too Bob. And thanks.
As you know I tested me future wife by driving her from Helsinki to Teesside in a mark I Fiesta in 1986. Luckily the sun was shining at the Vic back then (and Boro did not get bust the day before). Still wonder how the car managed that trip!
Happy days then and now. Boro can again be promoted. Up the Boro!
Bob, you should take your wife to Iceland, one of the most fascinating countries I have visited with glacial lakes and roaring geysers, one of which near Reykjavik they actually built a restaurant around it so one can eat on the third floor as the geyser rumbles every eight minutes with the spray almost reaching the ceiling.
I’m taking her to Iceland tonight we need to buy some party food !
Naples or Barnsley, that was a tough call but I’m sure the Barnsley tourist board can handle a bit of competition 🙂
Happy Anniversary!
Jarkko and Allan,
Nice to know there are other followers around the world with alternate plans for the weekend and that the entire universe is not dependent on events closer to Teesside.
Spend some time with our neglected partners, family and friends.
A well deserved weekend off for all us Boro tragic’s.
……..Slowly walking into the garden to watch the grass grow.
Well Billy, I don’t know whether you’re a Rugby League fan there in Aussie land, but following the Aussie Grand Final which Melbourne Storm won last weekend, we have our own Grand Final at a full to capacity Old Trafford tomorrow night between my team, Castleford Tigers against Leeds Rhinos.
Hoping Cas can win it for the first time in their 91 year history, but I guess it would mean an early rise on Sunday morning for you folk. Might be worth recording though.
Ken,
Never been a big rugby fan but felt a lot of pride when Johnny Wilkinson won it for England against the aussies.
Watched in a pup with our Kiwi friends. They were happier than us.
My nephews are the Gray brothers, Richie and Johnny that play for Scotland so we must have rugby in us somewhere.
I did play for the school team as flanker for two games but got hooked on football.
Lets not kid ourselves, the weekend could pan out like this:
Yes dear, you can watch desperate housewife’s tonight. Of course we will go shopping and get that present for me mam. What have yer done with me phone? Yes I will bring you a cup of tea in a minute. No I didn’t get milk with the paper. A lift into town? of course my love. OK I will pick up my clothes in the bedroom. Fix what broken tap? No I haven’t taken the dog’s out yet. What, get my feet of the sofa? Watch me legs with that hoover. Of course your friends can come over. CAN SOMEONE ANSWER THE PHONE!!! No I haven’t washed the car yet. Cut the grass? certainly dear. Yes I will answer the door. Alright! alright! I just go get me spade……….
Phew, what a weekend.
Jarkko
Your unfailing enthusiasm and support for the Boro should be a lesson to us all in how to be a true supporter and not moan about our team
UTB
OFB
Where’s the fun in that…..
OFB
I don’t do internationals as they are normally night matches.
The middle of the night here so I weaned myself off them in the last 23 years.
I have split loyalties with England and Scotland as both parents are Scottish, Chuck in my utmost sympathy with the Socceroos at it becomes a dog’s breakfast.
I will however always remain British and will cheer all of the home nations in all sports, especially against the aussies.
That’s my colours nailed to the mast.
Anyone else with strange international loyalties? It is topical this week.
Well if it confession time I’m a Geordie Born In Newcastle and my parents and all my side of the family live their
My dad insisted we follow the mags until I was about 12 and we stopped going
When I was 19 my girlfriend (now my wife ) her brother and her sister’s boyfriend needed a lift to York for Boro to play in the.cup
A few days later it was a lift to Sunderland for.a 2 2 draw amd I’ve followed the Boro for last 50 Years.
Flying back from Argentina for the weekend to see 3 cup finals
Seeing them play all over Europe goingto
Cardiff and then Eindhoven
So confession over and I’m a Boro fan through amd through as are my 2 lads 2 grandsons amd Mrs OFB
Bob, meant to add my congratulations to you and your wife on your 48th wedding anniversary. My late wife and I managed 47 years, but did celebrate the 50th anniversary of our first date before she died.
As it’s confession time, must admit I never got to see Boro at Wembley, but as my wife was a Cas lass, did see Cas win the RL Final three times and lose once at the old stadium.
Also Jarkko, congratulations also to you and your wife on your 30th anniversary.
And your name?
My name’s Original Fat Bob and I’m a Boro addict.
Councilling is too late for you Bob.
Your addicted for life
OFB
It’s only jarkko being so cheerful keeps us going.
That is getting close to 400, come on GHW, we are due a masterclass.
Heads it Britt like!
Ahem
Oooh! Set yourself up RR.
Inadvertently posted congrats to Jarkko then saw the gaping hole courtesy of Ian and came over all Bernie like.
Need to get those shed door hinges oiled GHW 🙂
Late entry for goal of the month
A quick thought for Ken who tonight, I am sure, will be glued to the TV to watch his beloved Cas (hopefully) continue their impressive run against Leeds this season to win the Super League Grand Final.
I will only get to catch a few minutes of the match myself as Powmill junior is out with his chums, so the Powmills senior are taking the opportunity to enjoy a romantic candlelit Tartiflette for two this evening, However, as a Bradford (Northern none of that Bulls nonsense !!!) fan I’m right behind Castleford tonight.
Happy Anniversaries to those doting old love birds (respectively OFB and Jarkko). It seems many of us are blessed with better halves that accommodate our other love… the Boro.
I wonder if a top football club would leave out their star player due to a “ breach of club rules”, like Castleford have?
Well Boro didn’t suspend Gazza when he smashed the club coach. But Cas won’t tolerate miscreants and in recent years have suspended two other star players, and eventually sacked them. But this the biggest game in the club’s history, so a brave decision to make.
Thanks, Powmill. Our scrum half, Luke Gale and this year’s “man of steel” we were lucky to buy from Bradford when they went into liquidation. Unfortunately, the “man of steel” runner- up Zac Hardaker has been suspended by the coach for unspecified “breaking of club rules” so will miss out.
Big call for the coach to make, and will definitely make it more difficult for Cas, but still hoping for the best.
Well done Bob and Ken for your confessions. It must be a weight off your chest.
Anybody else out there that would like to “come out”
I have previously stated my admiration for Everton and Arsenal before I found Boro at 11 years old.
Let the truth come out.
I also like Everton, but also Hartlepool United.
That is one big confession Ken.
Have you been holding it in for long?
Gary (Monk-he) must follow Hartlepool as well.
No point in HANGING on to secrets
Hope we don’t Ape Hartlepool and Hang us is out to dry or I’ll go bananas and swing for them!
Ken
Good look for Cas tonight
Thanks Billy, fingers crossed.
Football Commentary Cliches….
https://tinyurl.com/yadzz9et
I particularly like “he smuggled the ball forward” as if a pirate suddenly came on to the pitch and threaded a through ball.
He must have had some bottle !
GHW
I chuckled when I read them as well. Interesting that Geoffrey’s corridor of uncertainty transcends sports.
Fingers crossed for tonight Ken, I lived in Leeds and worked in Castleford but I supported Trinity when I was young and Wigan in my later years – another place I worked.
Football Clubs?
Darlo and Pools but I know it isn’t always reciprocated. York and Berwick.
In the Liverpool derby I want Everton to win, in the Manc derby I prefer United. Toon and Mackems I want both to lose. London – prefer Spurs.
I see our pairing with Bristol has been pushed back on Dec 2nd to a 5.30 KO for TV. I wonder who makes these decisions like Norwich travelling up to the Riverside on Tuesday evenings etc. it probably shouldn’t but it irks the heck out of me.
It looks like they think it will be two sides battling for the Play Offs with the underdog at home maybe upsetting Billionaire Boro.
Just a post regarding the status of Gazettegate.
Apparently talks between both parties have taken place but only small progress made.
In the interests of both parties I hope they reach a satisfactory solution soon as I’m my opinion it is not in the best interests of either party to continue with this dispute
OFB
The “froidure” will only thaw out when the Chairman decides it is time.
If we are all coming out, like Ian I have also kept a weather eye on Darlo & Pools and, coincidentally enough, adopted Spurs during my first short spell in London. They were a joy to watch in ’78 and ’79.
Other than that I have to own up to having a soft spot for Hibs and Plymouth Argyle, all because as a youngster I liked their green take on the classic Arsenal top.
But the only truly passionate and enduring affair of my life (Mrs. Powmill excepted of course) has been with the Boro. Started going in season ’72/’73 and we finished 4th, a long way behind a classy Burnley side as champions and runners up QPR, then just behind Aston Villa in third.
Hi Powmill, my favourite Scottish team is Hibs, hate Hearts, but love the city of Inverness so always look for their results, and don’t laugh, but also have a soft spot for Forfar Athletic.
Forfar 4 East Fife 5
Anniversary greetings to Bob & Jarkko. Will be celebrating a very good friend’s 78 birthday together with his wife and Mrs P tomorrow on a short overnight break at La Escondida.The hotel owned and run by Mr & Mrs Terry Venables.
If perchance I happen to bump into El Tel then I shall take some soundings to see if he is still in the consultancy business and if he still has SG on speed dial – just in case October does not pan out as we all would wish and GM needs some support!
My initial introduction to football was of course playing with the big lads on the common, in order for them to allow you to join in you had to go in goal of course, I actually became quite efficient at it for awhile.
My first team was Tottenham double team, mainly because I saw them in the Cup Final on TV,
My dad had taken me to Boro a few years before but being a little flea I missed most of the game not being able to see.
I wrote to Tottenham explaining I lived on the other side of the world on teesside and couldn’t possibly see them live, they obliged by sending me a programme and a sheet of all the teams autographs, wish I had kept it,so they still have a corner of the old heart.
This changed of course when as a nine year old going on my own with a couple of others I entered the gates of trepedition walked up the steps of the East end and gasped with amazement at the lush colours of my future drug,
UTB
It was the colour that hooked me too. Fisrt match was Hull at home and after watching shoot every sunday in black and white the colour was mind boggling.
Spurs have always been my favourite London club. As a youngster, I admired Blackburn and Sheffield Wednesday, I know not why.
Nothing against Darlo and Pools but always favoured York as my lower league choice, us being in Yorkshire as well.
My worst offence is that, like many Boro supporters at the time, I admired Don Revie’s Leeds. How things have changed.
Steely
You risk Werder withdrawing your posting rights for supporting ‘The Dirties’.
As a coincidence to the big match I was working in Castleford alongside people who supported Leeds and the Tigers. The couldn’t understand why Leeds were getting so many cards.
I suggested their team came from the dark side. Didn’t know what I meant. I tried to explain that as a neutral I went to Elland Road and watched what was going on off the ball.
Still didn’t get it but these were the people during a miners strike who stopped a tanker demanding it was opened in case it was carrying oil for the boilers. The driver showed them the haz chem sign showing Nitric Acid, he explained it was 96%. Still didn’t believe him so he donned all the protective clothing but they still didn’t believe him so the driver opened up the tank – they were very threatening. We never heard how the picket recovered from the burns.
Most Cas fans hate Rhinos but support Leeds United, but on their forum have also fans supporting Stoke City, Notts County and even Boro as well as me.
Good to hear all the confessions.
Nobody has yet coughed up to admiring the roker jokers up the road.
Coming from just north of the tees it could have been touch and go for me.
Thankfully I was led in the right direction.
So come on! Who is brave enough to admit having one eye on the stadium of sh11tte
OB
Ok I admit that as a thirteen year old I used to go to the Boro one week with a couple of pals from school who were in the year above me and then when Boro were playing away used to get the train from Stockton and head North to whoever was playing at home.
Did that for one season by which time I was hooked on the Boro. My grocer’s delivery boy job (Walter Wilson) did not provide me enough income to watch them away from home so I then used to go and support Stockton.
KP
Is this an admission?
You don’t actually name the team “north” that you watched.
It’s OK you can come clean.
Same here watched Stockton at the Old Victoria ground as well as Boro.
Well done to young Dael and the under 21’s
And to the riverside for putting Boro on the international map
Being brought up in the Catholic faith you obviously had to stay loyal to your indoctrine So as a young football dreamer ,I always looked for the ST Mirren result, I remember a Tom Brycewell bubble gum card I had of him.
Then of course there was the summer recess which went on forever ,so you had to find an Austrlian team to follow on the coupon , they had some crazy names ,and results 11-1,7-6, 0- 14.
My team I think played in the Victoria State Div 3 or 4, St Helens.
And tell that to the kids today and they think your mad.
UTB
And a Celtic. Fan ?
I came from what they called a mixed marriage
C of E and Catholic so was christened twice to satisfy both sets of families !
OFB
Old Billy
I do but it is of the evil eye type.
In truth I don’t hate our friends up the A19. I don’t gnash my teeth if they win, I will shrug my shoulders. If they lose it doesn’t spoil my day.
My day us normally spoilt without looking up the A19
I’m a Castleford fan tonight….
https://tinyurl.com/ybbc6jqq
Old Bily
I’ve always preferred the delusional Geordies as they can take a joke but the Rokerites were always a miserable nasty bunch in my experience.
Don’t forget there’s one delusional Geordie who follows the Boro!
We cannot forget you Bob
Couldn’t agree more
Celtic for 2 reasons, I’m Catholic and the European Cup win. Oh, 3 : they gave us Bobby Murdoch.
I did play one season with Shamrock Rivers vets here in Oz a few years ago.
My uncle from Ibrox would have rolled in his grave
I am Forever Dormo and I am Yorkshire, British and Welsh. Probably a typical Brit.
Married for 36+ years to a Scot, whose family are all Scots but came down to Redcar when she was a child. Her Father had a strong Scots accent until the day he died and her mother (still with us) has, too.
My parents are no longer with us (my father would have been 100 in 2 years time) but were both Welsh. Father’s nickname, hardly original, was “Taffy”. When I say Welsh, I mean going all the way back to the Red Lady of Paviland. (On a side note, it is now known that “she” was in fact a young man, so don’t let anyone tell you that gender fluidity is a recent thing). My father’s family came up from Wales to look for work on Teesside – something which would now be a novelty and would probably merit a lengthy article in The Times – and lived in Dormanstown. In fact as near to ICI Wilton as the metal fence would allow.
When I say going back to the Red Lady, I have made an omission. My paternal grandmother is the only one of the four grandparents not Welsh and I have to confess that it is believed she was born in Stockton on Tees (don’t tell Steve Gibson or my season card might be cancelled). We all have a Black Sheep in the family (at least when not cuddling a Theakstons) and “Nanna” is mine. There is a suspicion that her family didn’t hail from County Durham (as Stockton on Tees remains) but that she cam from a “travelling ” background.
I was born in MIddlesbrough because that is where my mother was taken to hospital to, when she lived in Dormo. The birth certificate makes it clear Middlesbrough was in the North Riding of Yorkshire.
As a result, like many others, I have a number of different loyalties. I am a Yorkshireman – never a Teessider. If we were divided into tribes, I would be in the Redcar tribe and mildly oppositional to Middlesbrough** which I always thought felt it had a deluded sense of sub-regional superiority. Of course, loyalties would lie with Middlesbrough in preference to Stockton, Darlington or Hartlepool. Places like Leeds seemed almost equatorial and Newcastle and Sunderland were bordering on Tundra.
**I remember that polite entreaty painted on a wall in Redcar, and addressing the the youth of Middlesbrough, maybe to engage in some athletic contest or other, perchance a boxing contest? – “Redcar Casuals say ‘bring your boys’….”
So, from that mixture it will be no surprise to find a number of loyalties which might, at first sight, be thought to be conflicting.
In rugby terms it has to be Wales and in terms of international football it is also Wales – great win last night in Georgia, by the way, boyos! I would support England against most foreign teams but there lurks within me a “support the underdog” thing, so that, in a “Home Internationals” context, I would not be unhappy to see Scotland or Northern Ireland beat England. I have told my son that he should not expect England to win a football competition in HIS lifetime, let alone mine.
In cricket, of course, there can only be Yorkshire. I am surprised that other counties exist, apart from the need to have teams that Yorkshire might play against. Obviously I follow England (whose team, might I remind you, is organised by the England & Wales Cricket Board) but, Yorkshire in preference to England, especially when the selectors take so many of our players and make them unavailable to play for the county even if there is no England game, or they are drinks waiters. England likes to order that our players “need rest” when there is no international cricket. In reality they have played very little cricket. Jonny Bairstow is a cricket equivalent of Juninho. If there was a game going on in the street with a group of kids, he’s want to join in. He’s a young athlete and he’d NEVER be too tired to play for Yorkshire. If he was a footballer he’d be worth more than £200,000,000 and so, too, would Rooty.
In athletics, tennis and other sports, I am very happy to support the British shirt.
In terms of team football there can only be one team. They play in red and white and there are occasions, it has to be said, when they play explosively well. Sadly they can also annoy and disappoint, so the lot of a Boro supporter is not always a happy one. I need say little more, but they are Untypically Exasperating at times.
I always used to look for the results of Darlington and Hartlepool (a task which requires more detective skills these days) and, since I am not a died in the wool supporter or either, I don’t “hate” the other team. In fact I don’t HATE any team, though there are some I look on more fondly than others. There is a sort of hierarchy of teams somewhere in my mind so that I would always prefer a Southampton to a Portsmouth, a Spurs to an Arsenal, a Bolton Wanderers to a Preston NE (I know, it’s not necessarily logical or have any reason behind it). I probably prefer the underdogs in FA Cup games and similar, unless it’s against Boro!
Not surprisingly, I’d like Cardiff and Swansea to do well whereas a died in the wool supporter of either club would probably prefer the other team to go out of business after being relegated out of the league. In Scotland I prefer little Ross County from far-north Dingwall which is not much bigger than Saltburn (come on you Staggies!). I’m not against the local “big city” neighbours Inverness Cally Thistle, either. I look for the results of Arbroath (Scotland’s Whitby) because my wife spent time there and her grandparents lived there. Also the fish and chips there and the icecreams are wonderful – they mostly come from Italian incomers who opened shops a couple of generations ago, and have colonised the fast food production there. Arbroath Smokies and Whitby kippers are both to die for. For some reason I supported Celtic, or rather I was happy for them to win the European Cup in 1967, though,in Scotland I might have been expected to support Rangers. In fact I am now happy for any team up there to be either of the Auld Firm, though that doesn’t happen often in Celtic’s case.
I might have said that I prefer Real Madrid to Barcelona, largely because of the Immortal Gareth Bale, though I have always preferred Messi to Ronaldo, if I had to choose between those two greats of the game. But recently goings-on in Catalonia and the bussing-in of state Police in an attempt to thwart a referendum, and the violence that ensued, may bring about a change of view. Instead I might be reminded that Real Madrid was Franco’s team and that it isn’t so long ago that Colonel Tejero stood with his gun held aloft in the Spanish “Parliament” so maybe old habits die hard.
I quite like the way Sevilla play football despite our UEFA Cup Final experience against them. I think more fondly of Juventus than other Italian teams because of the Great John Charles (history has been re-written to exclude reference to his Leeds United days, rather like in 1984) and because we got Ravanelli from them when he was a REAL top striker.
I am Forever Dormo and I am a mass of inconsistencies.
What a tremendous post Forever, and long may you remain Forever Dormo.
I meant to say to BEAT either of the Auld Firm…..
Dormo, but the big question is do you support Redcar Town, the nearest club to Dormansrown, or those from the posher side, Redcar Athletic?
To be fair, neither. though, if I had to, I suppose it would be Redcar Town playing on the Trunk Road Rec Ground. I remember when Redcar Albion existed, though!
Wow FD
What a confession.
I like the underdog angle, I always will the underdog to win in a neutral contest.
Those fish an chips smell good.
Give us one!
Bob, on checking on Wikipedia in 1963/64 season (midweek match) Forfar 5 East Fife 4 did occur, but the reverse score never happened, the nearest Saturday score being Forfar 4 East Fife 3. Doesn’t have the same alliteration, but as they both are in the same league, who knows, it could happen although at the moment Forfar aren’t scoring many goals.
Just like Boro Ken
Where were you all on 29th February 2004? Were you at Cardiff, the biggest day at the time in Boro’s history, or like me and many others glued to a TV screen in a bar? Or maybe at home watching the match?
Well, I and my wife were in “Smiler’s Bar” in Praia do Carvoeiro in Portugal’s Algarve where we had spent the three winter months each year since 1999 and where I hope to be next year for my 20th successive winter there during which I will also celebrate my 80th birthday – God, reaching my 9th decade seems even worse!
As a child we were lucky to have a TV set in the early 1950s and the first FA Cup Final I can recall seeing was in 1952 when Newcastle beat Arsenal 1-0 to retain the trophy they had won the previous year. After I got married my wife and I were staying at her auntie’s in Castleford for a long weekend and I was a little miffed at having to miss Boro’s home match with Crystal Palace. It was the 4th September 1965 and Yorkshire’s first Gillette Cup Final at Lords on TV but play was painfully slow at the time, so missing my drug of Saturday football, I thought about going to Elland Road where Leeds were playing Forest in the First Division. Not having a car in those days my wife’s auntie said that I wouldn’t be able to get there in time with having to change busses also.
“Why don’t you go down t’lane and watch Cas, it’s only ten minutes walk?” So I did, it was a Yorkshire Cup match against Featherstone and I became hooked. When I returned to auntie’s house the first thing I did of course was to get the football results, and found that Boro had drawn 2-2, but surprisingly that Yorkshire had accelerated to 317 for 4 in their 60 overs, Boycott had scored a century and had actually hit a six, and eventually Yorkshire easily won.
Well after having floodlights installed, Cas started playing their home matches on a Friday night, so about once a month I used to drive straight after work in Middlesbrough to park my car at aunties in Castleford, go to the match, have supper at aunties, then drive back home to Redcar. Classy Cas as they were called, had some successful seasons at that time, and I often travelled to some of the away matches, once through the snow with a work colleague to Workington. I was still going to Ayresome Park, but Boro were at that time not looking as if they would get promoted, never mind getting to Wembley. So when Cas got to the RL Cup Final for the first time since 1935 I just had to go.
I drove down there with my wife and my parents, none of whom had seen a rugby match before and didn’t even know the rules of the game, called at York on the way to pick up a keen Rugby League fan, had breakfast at his house, and returned home via York tired but elated after beating Salford 11-6. The admission price for standing was half a crown (12 and a half pence) so we booked straight away for a seat the following year (5 shillings) and luckily Cas were there again as they beat Wigan 7-2 with my wife’s cousin (Ian Stenton, a centre three-quarter) providing the final pass to his winger to score the only try in the match.
In 1972 I went to my first Open Golf Championship at. Muirfield, again driving straight from work to Musselburgh for the night to watch the final two rounds beginning the next morning, and after having my idol Jack Nicklaus walk by me within touching distance gave me my greatest sporting thrill since those RL Cup Finals, but beating them all would have been able to see Boro win at Cardiff.
When in Portugal before having an iPad I used to always buy the Daily Mail on a Monday because it had the Sunday’s football results and all the weekend’s Rugby League results. The Monday after Boro’s win at Cardiff I bought 6 or 7 different newspapers and rang home for my pal to buy me the Gazette, Northern Echo and Yorkshire Post for me to absorb for when I returned home.
Well, there you go Boro’s greatest triumph in 128 years and I wasn’t there to see it except on television. So now today I hope to see Castleford Tigers have their greatest triumph after 91 years admittedly on TV as I’m too old to travel nowadays.
When Boro played in Eindhoven they were often referred to as a small town in Europe. Well Castleford, population nearly 40,000) are dubbed as a small town in Wakefield. Most Boro fans hate Leeds United, probably because they lauded it over us in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Similarly Cas fans hate Leeds Rhinos because they are their big city rivals. Even Yorkshire cricketers are divided in their support; Johnny Bairstow is a Rhinos fan, Tim Bresnan is a Cas fan. I don’t hate the Rhinos but this evening I hope justice is done, and that Cas who finished 10 points ahead of the Rhinos, show the country that a great little ‘un can triumph over a good big ‘un by playing the best Rugby League seen by anyone probably in this century.
So COYF (come on you ‘Ford), most of the Old Trafford neutrals are willing you on, so make this old codger happy.
Hope they can win for you Ken.
Just like Boro did in Wales
Well arrived safely at La Escondida in the hills to the west of Benidorm and greeted with a glass of cava.
Breath taking scenery and a wonderful boutique hotel with Mrs P and I ensconced in one of two cabins within the grounds. Hotel only has twelve rooms in total and no kids allowed!
Had an excellent snack lunch with a nice bottle of local crisp dry white wine. Chilling and looking forward to dinner.
Now the bad news, Mrs & Mrs Venables are presently in London so my best laid plans to persuade him back to the Riverside have been thwarted. Will have to leave it to one of our southern based brethren to track him down instead – over to you Chris!
In the meantime have to ponder on which red(s) to have with dinner – decisions decisions! Hasta luego.
And a Carlos 1 for the brandy not a Carlos 111 it’s the one that’s the best
KP
He is closer to the Riverside than you are!
Enjoy your trip.
Saturday night and………god I’m bored
Winning the premier league!
Don’t like Chelsea as they try to buy it.
Don’t like city as they have Arab owners and try to buy it.
Prefer Arsenal as they don’t spend much and I liked them as a kid ( Allan Ball).
Don’t mind Liverpool as they play exciting football.
Don’t mind Man U due to tradition, Pally, Sir Alex and my dislike for city.
Could say that I have a penchant for teams in red. Don’t know where that comes from.
As a kid, buying the bubble gum cards I was attracted to teams in claret and blue for some reason. Villa, Burnley, West Ham.
They seemed exotic in the late sixties.
Did like the Blackburn quarters shirts.
Never liked teams in white and hate the modern away strips of black.
It’s like watching a team of referees and will spoil the game as a spectacle for me.
Maybe I am colour blind.
I’ll get checked out tomorrow
I liked M Citiy because of their socks with the two white stripes….
Well fellow bloggers I feel the need for a bit of a rant.
Now I can put up with the closed season as even footballers deserve some holiday time, but these international breaks are really getting right up my nose. Other post watershed ex matelot expletives are available!
Am I in a minority of not giving a stuff how the national team,(England in my case), does in these non event world cup or euros qualification games? They breeze through (usually) with the odd stumble only to fail miserably when they come up against the better footballing nations of the world. You know, Algeria, Iceland and the like.
The hype from the national media is embarrassing, and when someone trots out “they play in the best league in the world” garbage comment I immediately stop reading/turn over the tv or radio.Driving to work earlier this week there was a collection of sound bite quotes on talk sport. Didn’t recognise any voices but I think they were the usual southern media hacks they turn to and ex pros, and one of them came out with a real beauty that nearly made me crash the car because I was laughing so much. His words of wisdom were, and I quote, ” Kane and Alli can win England the World Cup”😀.
Now I’m a patriotic sort of chap but to para phrase the great Bill Shankley (I think) “if England were playing in my front garden I’d close the curtains”. I just don’t care about the national team and the fact they disrupt the bread and butter league fixtures makes me care even less. England to win a World Cup or euros, or the Boro to win promotion/ domestic trophy and it’s Boro every time for me. A bit parochial perhaps but that’s me.
On the subject of supporting/ liking other teams, well I always want Pools to do well after giving us a helping hand in 86, and Yeovil Town is another one I look out for, because when not deployed I was based at RNAS Yeovilton for a large part of my Naval career. Went to Huish park a few times and the famous sloping pitch really was properly on the slant.
My old fella took me and my brother to our first games in the late 60’s and we were hooked. It’s like you’re first true love and for me there will only ever be one. Just don’t let Mrs FAA know it wasn’t her!!
You’re not wrong about England.
UTB,
John
That was the worst display of the season from Castleford who couldn’t penetrate the Rhinos defence until the last minute. Cas made far too many handling errors in wet conditions which didn’t suit their speed from the scrums or play-the-balls, but the conditions cannot excuse their inept performance. Leeds made a few errors themselves, but were far more aggressive and the 24-6 score line certainly didn’t flatter them. Very disappointed!
Just seen the result Ken. Very disappointed for you. Still, over the season you know Cas have been the best team this season. I hope they can carry it all on to next season.
Commiserations Ken. I don’t know what Zac Hardaker has done, but he certainly let his team mates and supporters down. Who knows what difference he would have made?
Cas have been a revelation this season and I hope they can build on their performances next year.
Typical Cas Ken.
Next year!
Ken
Missed the Cas game but sorry to see the result. I am not a lover of the grand final approach, if the team finishes top they finish top and are champions in my eyes. It is a bit like the Champions league for people who lost.
FAA
I am not so anti England football team, I do like to see them win but I have reasonable expectations. The English Premier League is possibly the best league in the world but with around 30% England qualified players it means we don’t have the best players. The tendency is to buy the best creative players you can and play them, tough on the local players.
Ian
I don’t want England to lose games it’s just I’ve lost interest. The 30% stat in your post and the reason for it, is why for me England will be second rate for the foreseeable future.
Although England have done excellent in the last few years at U16 through to U21 level this hasn’t translated to any type of success at first team level. Having a total rebuild from the ground up certainly worked for France, Spain and Germany and maybe in a few years it may come about with England I just can’t see it happening. I look forward to being proved totally wrong (again).
Qualifying out of groups containing the likes of Lithuania and Malta is not success in my book it’s a requirement.
FAA
Totally agree, one problem we may have is that some of the creative players have dual nationality and will end up playing for the likes of Wales plus some of the African/Caribean companies. Cant blame them.
Could we get back to our problem as a club?
We (make that Gibbo) have committed the greatest blunder in our football history, having moved(painfully) to an organised method of running a club.
By that I mean buying and selling players in a speedy and profitable manner.
Playing in such a manner that we could reasonably forecast the near future.
Building a solid team with a backbone,
Narrowing down our faults, so that we could focus on them.
Going from a nowhere team to a top of the championship team.
Leaving the premiership with a rock solid defence and a midfield/ forward line with easily identified faults.
We fired the Manager, and reverted to hiring any old person who will buy rubbish and sell good players, has no idea what to do to cure the faults he is responsible for, except drop the entire back four had no problems in the prem.
Very interesting article which shines some light on why Norwich are scheduled to play Boro away on a Tuesday night. I personally find the level of disconnect and respect for fans and the greater good of the game shocking. It also I suppose relates to why we have only 30% English Qualified Players in the Premiership. Those in suits have sold our game and with it the grass roots, heart and soul of the game.
http://www.rochdale.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=507733
Couldn’t agree more RR.
Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that we will return to the days when fans were the most important element of the Matchday.
Blooming foreign footballers, coming over here and stealing our players jobs…..
Simple solution would be to reduce the number of teams in each division to 20. Championship and 1st Division 20 each, 2nd Division to have regional split of North and South with 20 teams in each allowing 8 teams to be promoted from the National League. No need then for midweek games.
In the past clubs have complained about the reduction of the number of fixtures if this happened, but if at the moment midweek games have poor attendances, then eliminating them shouldn’t be too much of a concern with the savings in traveling to away games and savings in floodlighting, policing and other costs incurred for midweek home games.
Plato
Sooner or later the lack of entertainment was going to get to paying customers. A main reason I was able to defend the regime for as long as I did was my status as a long (er) distance fan.
To paraphrase Len, from a distance, seeing Boro top the table and regularly pick up points is hunky dory. But going to the games…
Simon
You are presuming that what went before (and I do mean from Southgate on) was good.
It was awful, and was a very badly disguised downward spiral.
The last three managers had to be sacked in a panic(because we were in danger of going down)
Any team that goes up to the Prem. Is a hot favourite to go down first time round
So to go down with a very good defence, plenty of money, and a manager who at least knew how to play the promotion game in the championship(plus how to buy and sell players) was a no brainer.
Remember we missed survival by five points, whilst being managed by the first person to bump into Gibbo. after he had sacked AK.
It’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that they might have done it.
As for the crowd, I would expect that they will punish the club for their lack of forethought, after all they have just realised that the habit of collecting home points is now history, together with the habit of not conceding goals. Hmm! Wonder where that will lead.
We will of course forgive the buying of a twenty nine year old, although it smells awfully of what went before AK.
Forever Dormo, it’s obvious to me the passion you have for Dormanstown, and why shouldn’t you have? Historically at first Dormanstown had a population of about 2,500 and consisted of steel-framed houses built originally for Dorman, Long & Company’s workforce in 1917 and was described as “Redcar’s Garden City” and was the gateway to Coatham and Redcar before becoming part of Redcar Urban District Council on 1st October 1920.
As a child I used to attend the Methodist Church Sunday School there, but have to confess many a time I used to skive off to watch impromptu games of football on The Green. I don’t know whether it had its own football team, but Dormanstown British Legion did have a cricket team, as I remember in the late 1950s I played for Redcar Works CC against them there.
Your reference to Redcar Albion brought back memories. Originally they used to play in Borough Park but moved to Green Lane (where Redcar Athletic now play) when McKinley Park was extended. Redcar RUFC by then had moved there having previously played on the Racecourse. I remember watching the rugby team beating Middlesbrough for the first time one Boxing Day 3-0, just one penalty goal. I also recall Albion losing to South Bank in an FA Amateur Cup match in 1955.
Eventually Borough Park became the venue on alternative Saturdays for Redcar Park Rangers and Redcar Boys Club, and the other Redcar team (Redcar Crusaders) played at what was then near Ramshaw’s Farm. It’s a pity that in my lifetime Redcar hasn’t had a team in the Northern League. However in 1886 Redcar FC, who I believe played on Coatham Road Cricket field, did reach the quarterfinals of the FA Cup by beating the Boro 2-1. I’m not sure who beat them but in the final Blackburn Rovers beat West Bromwich Albion 2-0 after a replay.
Wikipedia gives all FA Cup results for 1885/86 season:-
1st Round Redcar v Sunderland 3-0 (wow)
2nd Round Redcar v Lincoln Lindum 2-0
3rd Round bye
4th Round bye
5th Round Redcar v Middlesbrough 2-1
QF Round Small Heath (Birmingham) v Redcar 2-0
SF Round West Brom v Small Heath 4-0
Final Blackburn v West Brom 0-0 Replay 2-0
It is only recently that Boro have ever got to an FA Cup semi-final, despite the long history of the club. Good to hear, then, that in those long-ago days a Redcar team had the upper hand over Boro in the FA Cup!
That must irk Ben, seeing Maguire in the England starting line-up. Mind saying that, on form it could be Fry playing ahead of him?
Pedro
It’s difficult to talk form when you are on every bodies radar.
And then a new manager slowly takes a wrecking ball to the only part of the team that had no problems with the Prem.
Ben is now the only one left who played the whole of a prem. Season
That is of course the back four we are talking about.
So, I guess if a premiership teams signs a player from Blyth Spartans there’s a good chance he wll be picked for England within a few weeks.
Well thats the best part of two hours of my life I won’t get back again. A dull, dreary and utterly pointless waste of a game of Football. Its about time these qualifying games were seriously curtailed with pre qualifiers for the minnows to cut down qualifying groups to manageable numbers.
While they are at it they need to scrap this ludicrous and overly complex “Runners up” qualification route. One news channel tells me Scotland drawing this evening means that Northern Ireland have qualified (just for the runner up play offs however) whilst another news channel has declared the Northern Ireland just need a point from Norway. I’ve no idea and clearly nor do they.
I also have no idea (probably due to lack of interest caused by the brain numbing complexity) of the Wales versus Republic of Ireland outcomes (tomorrow?) and what happens if one side wins or if its a draw. Bureaucracy gone mental!
It’s the ghost of Septic Splatter taking his revenge before Halloween. If only we’d let him take the money. Again.
UTB,
John
The number of overated players n the England squad is beyond belief.
We don’t have one and I mean one you could consider an elite player.
Norway left back , we gave free transfer Melling,
I remember thinking he was technically very good, but didn’t go around chasing and kicking ,like some we’ve had?
Thought this everything MFC article may be an interesting read
http://everythingmfc.co.uk/articles/reasonstobepositive/
I was really hoping to be illuminated and uplifted by the article but instead it left me focussed on if we have so many young lads in the side but we also have the remnants of seasoned proven Championship Pro’s then why hasn’t GM made the connection?
I’m not sure that the two week break will be that useful for building team relationships (not least because Christie has been away with ROI), lets face it we are now in October. Still at least it was an attempt to put a positive spin on something and looking for shoots of optimism. My wish for the two week break is that GM has finally decided on what his new look Boro will finally look like, what formation and then stick to a flipping plan!
I have had my 1500 piece puzzle done. Still nearly a week before Boro play …
When I was young we had only two channels on TV. As our domestic football season is in the summer, we had a live football match on TV every Saturday afternoon. So as most kids I chose a team to support. Middlesbrough sounded more exotic than Arsenal. And they played the Gunners off the park in a FA Cup tie in the mid 1970’s.
So I traveller abroad for the firtst time in 1980 to Middlesbrough. During that trip a friend took me to see Darlington at the Feathams, too. So I have a soft spot for Darlo, too.
In the 1980’s the quickest way of getting the reasults were to listen to BBC World Service on radio. We also had the pools coupons where you needed to guess eight drawn matches – so all the teams in the English football league were there. Also the top of the Scottish league.
So Boro was the team I really supported but I started to have some favourites in the lower leagues, too. That time my top lower league teams were Wednesday and Burnley. I think the former were in the old Third Division, the latter in the Fourth.
Because of Big Jack I still have a soft spot for the Owls as I also visited their home matches occationally when in the UK to see Boro and when there were no Boro home matches. But I don’t feel anything for Burnley anymore. Been there once with HalifaxP when Boro played there, though.
From Scotland I chose Ayr United but that was long time ago. Now I look for Queen of South as I visit Dumfries regularly because of work. A former collegue of minne even played for them.
I prefer Celtic over Rangers and like Hibs, too. Seen actually both Edinburgh teams when on holiday in there.
Nowadays I do follow the results of Hartlepool United, too. They become one of my favourites since they borrowed their ground for Boro. I was there when Boro played Tranmere in 1986.
I used to have a season ticket to a local team in Finland but they were bought by a Chinese business man. He was a criminal and lost a match by 8-1. Someone won a fortune in the far east. Finally the team was relagated by four levels, went bust and do not exist anymore. So I don’t have a team in Finland anymore.
In cricket I have only seen Ingleby Greenhow CC live. So they are my favourites, but must also like Yorkshire, even they are a bit like Man Utd and too good in their sport. I have never seen them play though. I alway support the underdogs.
So in intrenational football I support Finland and England. Nowadays England are the underdogs in the major tournaments and Finland have need been to a tournament final. We were once near to qualify but scored an own goal in extratime – the last four touches were by Finnish players in a sramble after a corner! Real underdogs, like.
I am not a Yorkshire man but that is my favourite place to have a holiday. The Moors, Roseberry Topping, Riverside, you name it. Were to Hartlepool last time, too and love the Dales, too.
But love Boro, it has given me so much. Motiveted me to really learn English and that has given me my current work. Now my wife and son are supporting Boro. And we have an excellent team again.
Up the Boro!
Finland have never (not need) been to a tournament. Sorry for typos and the iPad. UTB!
I tend to use my smartphone all the time amd amd is what I always type amd I always will
Let’s put it one way regarding your English it’s certainly preferable to my Finnish !
Pleased the speaking and writing English has also helped you in your career
Of course look at all the friends you have made by supporting the Boro as well so it’s been a big input into your life the way that supporting the Boro has influenced all our lives wherever we lived and worked.
Let’s hope for three points on Saturday to try and get back on track
UTB
Jarkko, there is an old English saying that familiarity breeds contempt. Sometimes we take things for granted, the beautiful coastline, the Dales, the North York Moors, the country villages and the cathedral cities of the largest and most beautiful county in England that is Yorkshire. Anyone who watched Le Tour de France when it started in God’s own County will verify that.
Similarly some of us who have followed the Boro for many years maybe took our club for granted, that is until the season we nearly lost it in 1986. At times we are critical of our team and may occasionally show contempt at some of its performances, so for a foreigner like yourself to choose the Boro as your team, to always have a positive outlook of its performances and future, and to visit and embrace this area of our Country is heartwarming, especially as most foreigners would perhaps choose a more fashionable club.
Great Post
From Start to Finnish !
OFB
Thanks, Bob. Yes, following Boro has given me much.
I had a couple of pen pals in the area – I wrote to the club in 1970’s and they published my letter in a match programme.
Since then this blog (and of course Untypical) has given me many friends. So I usually say hello to AV at halftime in the Riverside, been to Dormo with Dormo, seen Len and NeverGiveUpBoro in Derby, for example. And Werder etc. at the Navigator before a match.
And yes, Bob. We are at the end of Europe (not World, though) in Finland. I will finnish there.
Up the Boro!
Port Vale
Yes, my memory was playing tricks. But it was sunny day, Boro started well and were leading 2-0 vs. Port Vale but finally it was 2-2. But who cared, the Boro was reborn.
We did not know where Steve Gibson was about to take the club a few years later. But it was the match of the centenary.
This centenary it was the League Cup win or the European night with Massimo.
Up the Boro!
Generally, the response to weakness in a team has to be to work harder, drill the players intensively, and hope that everyone knows what to do on matchday. This should result in better teamplay and performances.
It may be easier to do this when the choices open to you are rather limited, and you are working with a pretty established first eleven where they are familiar with each other – see Alex Neill at Preston. In addition, every player knows that only by intense concentration and doing their job to the letter can the team succeed.
My theory is that GM is looking to concentrate the impact of pace/power/lightning attack by including as many as possible of the players who are most equipped with these qualities in the same team.
The problem arises because so many unpredictable situations arise in a game of football, and you need players who can respond to this with clever and imaginative play which allows possession to be retained, pressure to be built up, and reasonable control gained over the flow of the game.
One of our players lost possession six or seven times during the first half alone on Saturday, and if you multiply that to three or even four players who are not that comfortable and resourceful on the ball, how can the team perform coherently, how can any pressure or momentum be built?
Is the lack of urgency at the start of home games down to a lack of confidence, where the team is quite happy for play to be slow because like the away team, they are nervously feeling their way into the match and do not have the confidence to try to implement moves at speed?
Are we simply missing a crucial component – in Ramirez, we had the dynamism and the ability on the ball in one playmaking package, and that was crucial to promotion. Maybe Martin Braithwaite or Lewis Baker can be that player.
Maybe theses are some of the issues why a squad which looks so strong on paper seems so incoherent and underachieving in the way it is performing in matches.
I just want to remark on the latest tripe supper pod, it was the best yet,
An insight of several issues ,not the latest disappoint result,
These guys have some insight ,and should reveale a little in the sense they talk to players away from the training ground,, maybe. Not current but from years ago, not tittle tattle but maybe a reason why?
Jarkko
We may not agree ,on political views and I’m not going there, that’s for another day I suspect.
But your a teesider through and through
GT, that is one of the biggest compliments I have ever received. Feel honored and humble. And I always though I am not a proper fan, like.
I love Boro, me. Up the Boro!
I see Mr Strachan is giving bizarre press conferences again.
Apparently Scotland lost out in the qualifiers because of genetics. They’re too small! Good old Gordon always good for a quote.
UTB,
John
When I heard it I thought Genetics must have been a Slovenian inside right? 😉
RR, With an added accent it could well be!
UTB,
John
Ken
I see Hardaker failed a drugs test. What a shame for the fans of Cas and his team mates.
He says he’s sorry and so he should be. Cas have waited a long time to get to a GF – to be taking cocaine just a week or so before the Final is sheer stupidity. He’s not only let Cas down, but also England, who needed him for the upcoming World Cup.
He’s had quite a few “second” chances – it now looks like he’ll get a two year ban. It’s time for him to grow up and get some help.
Ian, what an idiot Hardaker has been. Although cocaigne is not a performance enhancing drug, he should have known that the UK Anti-doping Authority has strict rules for all sports on drug taking. The fullback position is one of the most important positions in Rugby League, collecting the attacking teams high “bombs” and in Castleford’s case starting attacks from within his team’s defensive 25 metre area. The coaching staff at Cas have been brilliant in improving Hardaker to be the best fullback in Super League after giving him a 3 year contract, and now will have to find a replacement after writing off the transfer fee they paid for him.
I feel desperately sorry for the 30,000 fans who traveled to Old Trafford on Saturday as, although in any team sport the loss of a star player must affect the overall performance, it cannot totally explain how a team who had scored 166 tries in 31 matches can struggle to only score one in the last minute. The performance on Saturday was on a par with Boro’s against Brentford.
Surprisingly Cas have been made favourites to win next years Grand Final and the Challenge Cup.
As a scot and Boro fan I was disappointed that Scotland did make it through to the play offs but I thought this was hilarious !
https://youtu.be/-lqd8_Odp8U
*did not * !!!
Ken
It is possible to compare the effect on the Cas squad with that of Gaston for Boro.
In Cas’s case it was last minute but if it had happened two months earlier what would have been the effect on their season.
In the case of Castleford they have a close season to adjust, we were left with a squad divorced of it’s little quality, I wont go in to the recruitment at the Boro.
Indeed!
Gosh! The car park attendant sneezed outside the ground in Cardiff and Harry Arterful dodger fell over. Shock, horror.
ROI leading in Wales.
I am trying to remember which team posted a video of the squad celebrating when England lost…..
Now we have harry Arterful dodger wanting a card for a Welsh player diving, takes one to know one.
Congratulations to Randolph and Christie for making the play offs but what does that mean for Boro with both them being away.
Come on BORO.
Sorry just checked and there is another international break scheduled after Sunderland (H) and Leeds (A) when the playoffs take place Nov 9 – 11 and 12 – 14.
Come on BORO.
Before Leeds (A)
Come on BORO.
To many of Boro fans the off season and the international football breaks are a bore, some even counting down the days and even the hours towards the next match. It was interesting to hear on the latest podcast of “The Tripe Supper” how the Gazette sports reporters filled in their time. It would appear that watching live major sporting events were on their schedule.
Philip Tallentire, for example, has visited the All England Lawn Tennis Championships at Wimbledon and enthused about watching Pete Sampras, and also watched a Tri-Nations Rugby League International between Great Britain and Australia. Dominic Shaw was at the Leeds Rhinos v Hull FC Super League playoff semifinal ten days ago and was planning to visit Old Trafford for the Grand Final last Saturday. He also went to Lords to watch one of the One Day cricket finals involving Durham. Apparently Anthony Vickers visited Acklam Park to watch a County Championship match involving Yorkshire, although that was in his capacity as a reporter.
It struck me what sporting events, excluding football, that contributors to this forum might have seen live in the off season. For my part I have never been to Wimbledon, but did see Ille Nastase play in the old Dewar Cup matches at Billingham Forum many years ago. Neither have I been to The Crucible for the World Snooker Championships, although I once saw Ray Reardon play an exhibition match at Coatham Bowl where he said he was thrilled that Wilf Mannion visited him in his changing room.
I’ve never been to Wembley for the British Speedway Grand Prix, although my wife and I were frequent visitors to Cleveland Stadium to watch Boro Bears in their prime years to watch a young Gary Havelock before he became World Champion, and also watched Dave Jessop just fail to create a Speedway World Record on Redcar Beach. I’ve never been to Wembley for a FA Cup Final or an international match, but have been there for six Rugby League Cup Finals, four of which involved Castleford and to Headingley for Rugby League internationals.
I’ve never been to Twickenham for a Rugby Union International, never seen a Cricket Test Match, but have seen Len Hutton, Dennis Compton and Fred Trueman play at Scarborough, Darren Gough and Viv Richards at Acklam Park. I’ve never been to a Ryder Cup match, but have been to Muirfield twice and Lyham St. Anne’s once for British Open Golf Championships seeing the likes of Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palme, Gary Player, Lee Trevino and Tony Jacklin. My wife and I used to regularly visit Fulford, York for The Benson and Hedges Tournament watching Nick Faldo, Sandy Lyle, Ian Woosnam, Greg Norman and Sevvy Ballesteros, and five years ago I went to Dubai for the DP World Golf Campionship (my last live sports event) to watch the current breed of Europe’s best golfers such as Rory McIlroy, Justin Rose, Lee Westwood, Graeme McDowell, Hendrick Stenson and Martin Kaymer, but have never seen Colin Montgomerie play.
Of course I’ve been privileged in my lifetime to see the greatest British footballers including Wilf Mannion, George Hardwick, Frank Swift, Tom Finney, Stanley Matthews, Tommy Lawton, John Charles, Duncan Edwards, George Best, Denis Law and Bobby Charlton, the latter on his debut for Manchester United v Charlton Athletic on 6th October 1956 whilst doing my National Service at Padgate. Later of course like many others I’ve watched Juninho, Emerson and Ravanelli, so indeed in the last 70 years I’ve been so very lucky to see such wonderful sports stars.
I hope that I’m forgiven for being self indulgent about my sporting experiences as nowadays I’ve become just a TV spectator, so in this prolonged break of Boroless action, I would love to hear from fellow bloggers about the sporting experiences they’ve had in their lifetime, or indeed major sporting events they would love to see live.
Ken
Reading your posts is like opening a 30 year old Malt, you just know you are going to sit back, savour and enjoy every drop of it, so much so that we don’t even begrudge the (Ayresome) Angels’ their share!
Ken
It was interesting to see this post about being a spectator at great sporting events and i also witnessed a great moment in sporting history.
In a previous life I was the UK MD of an International Design, Construction
Company whose headquarters were in Monaco.
For some reason the monthly meetings were never held on Stockton and I had to reluctantly travel to Monaco Rome or Amsterdam to have our meeeting.
Out CEO was an enthusiastic supporter of sport and the company was a major sponsor of Carl Fogarty and Troy Corser in the world superbike championship for Team Ducati.
Our Uk arm of the company were desperately trying to win a major Middle East contract for a client whose headquarters were based in Germany.
Taking the initiative my wife and I flew to Germany hired a small bus and driver and took a party of the clients management to watch the World Super-bike Final which was being held at the Nuburgring.
As a major sponsor we were treated royally by Ducati who are the Ferrari of the motor bike world. Huge marquees copious amounts of wine and sumptuous food saw us take our places later to watch the final.
Carl Fogarty won in style to win the world championship and
We celebrated with him and the team Long into the night.
In conclusion our company won the contract and my wife has a photo of her sat astride the winning bike holding the championship trophy aloft.
Oh happy Daze…..
OFB
Ken
Sadly I have been to an FA cup final at Wembley.
During this long Boro interlude, I can’t imagine a more interesting read than your thoughts on the players you’ve witnessed.
Even a twenty word sketch on each of them would be of value. Especially as TV footage of Charles and Edwards is so rare.
Please do consider doing so.
Enjoyed watching the two Boro boys in action tonight for the ROI. I found myself getting frustrated with the ROI playing the ball out from the back and getting themselves tied up in knots and losing possession as a consequence then the irony of Wales showing how to really screw it up big style. Have to say that boo boy McLean was brilliant with his constant chasing, running himself into the ground and never say die spirit, his winner was well deserved. To the Victor the spoils!
Christie had a solid game with a little less attacking flamboyance on display than with Boro but he still got a few good crosses in despite O’Neil and Keane playing 442 with instructions to keep it tight and frustrate. Man of the Match was of course our very own Randolph, calmness personified and with a brilliant one handed game changing save when it was 0-0. Not the two mightiest teams in European let alone World football but a cracking atmosphere and passion from both sides. Pleased to see Cyrus and Darren triumphant in the end but felt sorry for the Welsh lads, almost as sorry as I did for Strachan’s warriors last night.
Football, heh? It will never catch on.
The Bears now theres a memory, in the 60’s my dad was the doctor on duty at the track and he used to take me to watch. I was given a shilling for resfreshments and used to be in the corner next to the pits. The folks were friendly and explained the proceedings. It is the smell that has stayed with me all these years of grit , oil and fumes and of course the cold dark nights. We used to get the United bus home to Hartburn. Only remember one serious crash which was the highlight of the season – 66 or 67, and a rider called Tony who was everyones favourite. Still got the badge somewhere with a couple of bars in it.
All memories are in black and white of course like the newspapers and Oxf United wall collapse on promortion night around the same time.
Just thinking about happier days like……
Wow, there’s some interesting experiences of sporting occasions. One both my late wife and I would have loved to have done was to visit Augusta for the US Masters Golf. Sadly it never happened.
However, I omitted to relate one experience I had regarding golf. I used to enter competitions where the prizes were sports orientated and once I was lucky enough to win one on the BBC. You know the type of thing, fairly easy questions but the winner pulled out of a hat. Well, this one was for two people to watch the final round of the Scottish Open at Loch Lomond in a hospitality tent with lunch and drinks provided, plus an evening stay at the Hilton Hotel in Glasgow.
We had to make our own way between the to Loch Lomond and to the Hilton. The weather had been terrible prior to the final day, where thankfully it was fine, but part of the course was pretty muddy so my wife didn’t see much of the play, and I was restricted to only 3/4 holes, so watched most of the play on giant TV screens. However we still enjoyed ourselves as Lee Westwood won.
I wasn’t able to drink much as it was a fair drive to the Hilton in Glasgow, but on arrival the receptionist hadn’t got our names on his list, but nevertheless had a booking for an unnamed couple. Anyway the next morning at breakfast he approached us and told us he had solved our booking; we were apparently booked as Mr. and Mrs. Ceefax.
Allan, you predate me there. I used to go in the 1980s after they won the league in 1981. Boro finished 3rd to Ellesmere Port in1985, 3rd again a year later to Eastbourne, then fell away and actually finished 2nd from bottom in 1988, then amazingly finished 2nd in 1990 but twelve points behind Poole Pirates.
Steve Wilcock and Martin Dixon rode for them during that time, but later recruited Mark Courtney and an 18 year old Gary Havelock who later rode at Odsal for Bradford and won the World Championship.
In the late 1990s they changed their name to Teesside Tigers before moving to Cargo Fleet as Redcar Bears, but sad to say usually finish near the bottom of the league.
A pity both Scotland and Wales were both eliminated from the 2018 World Cup, as there had been a chance that all four home countries might still be represented in the Finals for only the first time since 1958. Again it boiled down to “if only”. Both Countries started their group matches badly, but if only Harry Kane hadn’t scored a last minute equaliser against England at Hamden Park, and if only Gareth Bale hadn’t been injured for Wales, both might still have had a chance to qualify. Maybe both teams have only themselves to blame, but I do feel sorry particularly for Wales because they rely so heavily on Bale, just like GB Davis Cup team do with Andy Murray. Ok, it will be nice to have Randolph and Christie to cheer if Republic of Ireland qualify, but ROI cannot be classed as British.
I remember watching Arthur Lampkin in scrambling, big on TV when I was young.
Truck racing at Castle Donington, Britsih Grand Prix, a few outings to the races.
One day internationals at Trent Bridge. watching Sir Geoffrey at Headingley and Acklam Park.
England v Wales at Twickenham and the best was watching England beat Wales at Cardiff Arms Park for the first time in 24 yeats. That was rather recious because I had been working in Wales beforehand and they would take great joy in telling me they were going to win, of course you will but at some point…..
NFL at Wembley.
OFB Ken
At the mention of one Rory McIlroy, I can state without fear of contradiction that I worked and socialised with his uncle, whilst working together out in the land of the big sand.
We sipped coffee by the pool in the early evening as around us the call to pray echoed from the surrounding minarettes. On one occasion he described to me how he and Rory had had dinner with Bill Clinton, no less. The finest Irish whiskey was drank, of course. The result was that Bill Clinton gave Rory’s uncle a file containing all his recent speeches as a guide for his own speech writing activities. And low and behold in passed a copy onto me.
I often wondered how much at auction the original speeches might fetch.
Ask Donald Trump!
https://www.google.sk/amp/thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/326687-obamas-2008-dnc-speech-could-fetch-1m-at-auction%3Famp
$1 000 000
I’ve been to a few Cup Finals at the old Wembley and an Eng vs Spain international too, back in the late 70s I think.
I’ve seen RL Challenge Cup Finals at both Wembleys and once went to Twickenham to see Bath play Wigan in the cross code challenge. Bath won of course, but we scored the best tries. The RL return fixture at Maine Road was just as one sided as the RU game.
I went to a few things when the Commonwealth Games were on in Manchester. The Rugby Sevens were great and I really enjoyed the Mountain Biking on the West Pennine Moors, on routes I regularly rode myself back then. We also managed a day of athletics (when our sprinters failed to make the finals).
I’ve seen a few cricket Test matches – one at Headingley when I was still at school in Guisborough and a few as a corporate guest of Cornhill at Old Trafford. I once took a guest to a one day game at OT and everytime the ball came towards our boundary, he bent down to pick something up. I eventually asked him what was up and he told me he hadn’t let his Boss know he was going and didn’t want to be spotted on TV!
I’ve been to Bolton Arena to watch Amir Khan box but there was as much fighting going on in the crowd betweeen rival boxers supporters, as there was in the ring.
I was also at a corporate event a few years ago, where Matthew Pinsent was a guest speaker. He passed all his Gold Medals around the audience and I’ll admit I was a bit in awe as I held one. He insisted on having them all back at the end!
Watford v Everton FA Cup Final
Free tickets for me and an army mate on the day from total strangers in the Union Jack Club that morning.
Elton John was there.
🙂
Ken
Normally I would want one of the home nations to bet the Republic of Ireland but I remember the Wales team jumping about and celebrating when England lost and to make it was it was published on you tube.
It makes it difficult for me to feel sorry for them.
As ye sow, so shall ye reap
Just for you Ken……
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o58stoJJ5No
Thanks Grovehillwallah, I have actually seen that before. The commentator is an ex Cas player who does commentary on Cas DVDs. The fans love him, but he’s completely bonkers. I don’t think Martin Bellamy will be too pleased by his comments though, Martin being a Wigan fan.
I remember watching Ivan Mauger racing against the Boro Bears, my father was a big speedway fan after he chucked the Boro over the “ Alan Peacock episode” and we used to go every week. I was only young but my abiding memory was as the lights went down for the race start you could see people lighting up cigarettes. This is back when smoking was fashionable and everybody smoked.
http://www.defunctspeedway.co.uk/middlesbrough-speedway.htm
Arguably New Zealand’s greatest ever sports star, and that is some statement when one considers Peter Snell who won Olympic gold medals in both the 800 & 1500 metres in 1964, and all the famous All Blacks. However, Mauger won a record six World Speedway Championships and I seem to remember he rode for Newcastle Diamonds, but I never saw him ride.
Dear Brethern of the blog,
may I suggest in the event of the inconceiveable, Martin O’Neil.
Just suggesting like
Get off that bandwagon and come back if they qualify.
GHW
I prefer ‘Paint your Wagon’! As I was born under a wandering star.
Still, suggestion stands unless you have a better one, like?
If not, then silence is probably your best option, like 🙂
Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTymtAbaG08&feature=youtube_gdata_player
We already have a manager, but if I had to pick a successor Martin O’Neil wouldn’t be it. As for silence, I thought you were the champion of free speech.
Complete with Roy Keane ?
Wonder what Si would make of that !
Never mind Si how about Dani Ayala?
No experience as a manager! Or am I thunkin of smone else?
Om! Ommm!
🙂
That Carpathian Chuckle Juice has a lot to answer for…..
Chris Hunneysett.
Apart from Wilf Mannion and George Hardwick, I only saw the other great players I mentioned a few times. However, it’s worth mentioning that in the Victory International at Hampden Park in 1947 when Great Britain defeated Rest of Europe 6-1, Boro were the only club to provide two players in the victorious GB team which was in the old 2-3-5 formation as follows :-
Frank Swift (Man City); Billy Hughes (Larne), George Hardwick (captain); Archie MacAuley (Arsenal), Jack Vernon (West Brom), Ron Burgess (Tottenham); Stanley Matthews (Blackpool), Wilf Mannion, Tommy Lawton (Notts County), Billy Steel (Derby County), Billy Liddell (Liverpool).
I didn’t see that match but do remember reading about it at the time and I believe the attendance was 134,000.
Frank Swift was England’s goalkeeper and was never replaced until he retired at the end of the 1948/49 season, and the only occasion I saw him was in his final season on 26th February 1949 when he repelled everything that Boro threw at him as Boro lost 0-1. He became a sports journalist, but unfortunately died in the Munich air disaster in 1958.
I only saw Stanley Matthews play once on 31st August 1949 when Boro beat Blackpool 2-0 before a crowd of 47,870. It was a midweek match, and Boro always had a large crowd when Matthews was in town. I remember the occasion well as Boro hired the Marching Band of the Coldstream Guards to perform before the match and at halftime. In those days we were always treated to music of the local bands such as Skelton or New Marske Silver Bands, but Marching Bands were usually reserved for FA Cup Finals at Wembley, so this was some coup. I think that’s where I got my liking for stirring military marches. The other thing I remember from this match was that young Gordon Hepple deputised for the injured Hardwick and although Boro won he had a torrid time against Matthews.
I saw Tom Finney several times and he was the complete footballer, an outside right who played on the left wing for England whenever Matthews played. Finney nearly always partnered Mannion for England so Wilf alternated between inside left and inside right depending on whether Matthews played or not. Probably Finney’s best display at Ayresome Park was when giving Bobby Corbett the runaround on 22nd August 1953 when Boro lost 0-4 in our relegation season. Tom Finney was so versatile that England picked him at centre forward on a few occasions.
The only time I saw Tommy Lawton was on 20th December 1947 playing for Third Division South team Notts County in a FA Cup Second Round Replay at Ayresome Park against Stockton. The first match at Meadow Lane was drawn, and as Boro were playing away to Manchester United at Maine Road because Old Trafford was closed until 1949 due to war damage, Ayresome Park was chosen for the replay. The transfer of Lawton from Chelsea to a Third Division team caused quite a stir at the time because he was still England’s centre forward and continued to be all that season.Notts County won that replay 4-1 but didn’t gain promotion until 1950. Tommy Lawton had a bullet type header but was eventually replaced in the England team firstly by Tom Finney, then Stan Mortensen before the great “Lion of Vienna” Nat Lofthouse cemented that place with a wonderful display against Austria in 1952. Unfortunately I didn’t see Lofthouse play as at that time I had a paper round and rarely saw Boro play from 1952 until 1954.
I only saw John Charles play once but what a player! On Christmas Day 1954 Boro had drawn 1-1 away to Leeds United. It wasn’t easy in those days to travel to away matches, so I opted to watch the Hartlepool v Darlington derby at the Victoria Ground. But two days later on Boxing Day, the 27th, the return fixture attracted a crowd of 45,271. Boro were only 15th in the Second Division at the time and Leeds were 2nd before the match at Elland Road, so the draw was a very acceptable result. John Charles was a super star at the time and was playing at centre forward having also played at centrehalf in some matches, but Boro won 1-0 with a sixth minute goal from Charlie Wayman who had been a fine centre forward with Preston North End before Boro signed him in the previous season. Boro had Dickie Robinson at centre half that day having previously been George Hardwick’s full back partner in the First Division seasons. John Charles left for Juventus at the end of the season having scored 157 goals in 297 appearances, yet strangely Leeds were promoted without him the next season. He did return to play for Leeds in 1962 having been idolised in Turin. Wikipedia states that he had strength, pace, technique, vision, ability in the air, and an eye for goal. It is hard for me to form an opinion on that after having only seen him play once, for he was well shackled by Robinson that day. But one cannot argue about the presence he had, and although he was 6 feet 2 inches tall, to me he seemed a giant of a man.
Duncan Edwards life was cut short by the Munich Air Disaster, but I did see him play twice. Whilst on National Service at RAF Padgate near Warrington I used to ride pillion on a motor scooter with a lad from Middlesbrough called Tony Leader whose father had a shop called Leaders Timber Merchants on Newport Road. So off we rode to watch Manchester United one week and either Manchester City or Everton on alternative weeks. The first time I saw Edwards was on 15th September 1956 against Sheffield Wednesday. That was three weeks before Bobby Charlton’s debut, and United won 4-1. Edwards was a left half back and Matt Busby had recruited him from the Midlands as one of the Busby Babes. He was the youngest player to play in the First Division at that time and became the youngest player since the Second World War to play for England. In my opinion he would have become the best midfielder in the Country, if not the World, certainly better than Bryan Robson. For one so young being nearly 20, he was tough in the tackle, had superb passing skills, and also scored goals. He was certainly instrumental in the win that day.
Eventually after completing my “square bashing” at Padgate I was posted to RAF Credenhill near Hereford, and after sampling an FA Cup tie there against Aldershot I was missing First Division football, so when we found out that United and Duncan Edwards were playing at Villa Park, we took the train to New Street Station for the match on 8th December 1956. United won 3-1 and Duncan played well but not as influential as in the Sheffield match.
Eventually I spent my last 18 months National Service as a clerk in the transport section at RAF Changi in Singapore, and that is where I heard the devastating news of the Munich Air Disaster. I have to confess that Manchester United had become my second team, and Duncan Edwards had become my second favourite player after Brian Clough. I had only seen him play twice, but I had become star struck, such was the effect he had had on me.
I missed my football, but returned to England the day before Boro beat Brighton 9-0, and as I wasn’t demobbed until the following Monday, I missed that match too.
Latest news. On Mirror group loss of advertising revenue which includes local papers like the Gazette
Trinity Mirror’s third-quarter revenue plummet
http://dailym.ai/2hYywh1
watched Australia v Syria play off last night and it reminded me why I dont normally bother with internationals.
The football was pedestrian paced one-way traffic, watchable only because of the sudden death tension or the possibility of the away goal turning a winning position into a losing position in seconds. There could also be the drama of penalties although I wasn’t in the mood for ABBA.
But the worst part of the game for me was the constant feigning of injury by the Syrian’s and the failure of officials to punish it.
The second half had many such incidents and I did the usual rough calculation of injury time including the 30 seconds per sub. there should have been around 7 minutes. the board went up showing four minutes and the ref played 3.57.
First half extra time saw a Syrian sent off and he was allowed to take a full minute to walk from the field. Then an “injured player” was allowed to roll around the pitch, be treated on the pitch, taken off on a stretcher only to jump of it when he got to the side line and wave to be allowed back on, this took a further 2 minutes. Add 30 seconds for a sub and the injury time should have been at least 3.5 minutes, the ref allowed 2 minutes.
These players are being rewarded for their gamesmanship and it needs to stop.
It would be so easy for the governing bodies to drag these referee’s in and sack them because they cannot count.
Spartak, please not O Neil, I would prefer fat Sam
(once we are in need a manager of course!)
UTB In Monk we trust (for now)
No to O’Neil -Precho? (That means why in the local lingo).
🙂
GHW
Local juice- dont touch it as its paint stripper. I can get Bushmills 10yr old at local shop. Much better!
🙂
I don’t think O Neill has the spark for domestic football these days
It’s a time consuming and full on 24/7 position
Now a few years ago when he was meeting SG and discussing coming then I would agree with you he was abright articulate and tactically motivated young manager
I could be proved wrong of Ireland qualify amd do well Inn the World Cup amd some big clubs come knocking …….
OFB
When I read the local newspaper this morning the Boro was mentioned in two separate articles! Must be a record, then.
The first news was about Fabio Rochenbach and the cock fighting. Bad publicity but publicity anyway.
The second story was about HJK, out biggest football team. They won the champioship already a month before the end of the season (we play football in summer as we have snow for four to six months a year).
The article was about the future of the club and what they need to do better. They plan to have more players from the HJK academy in the future and the new director of football mentioned Mikael Soisalo as an example. He went through their Academy but never played for their first team.
Spelling check: 1-1. In the latter article Middlesbrough was spelled correctly, in the Rochenbach article it was spelt Middlesborough. I hope I spelled Fabio’s name correctly – apologies if not.
Amd I know the mobile devices make typing difficult as OFB wrote. Up the Boro.
Apparently it’s RocheMback not N
I never knew that !
Spartak,
No to O’Neil because……
Well he did well at Leicester
He did OK at Villa
He was cr@p at Sunderland
Anyone can manage Celtic (except Mogga apparently)
And now he is in retirement mode.
I think he is past it as a top club manager.
Although fat Sam is only a few years younger, I think he would have the drive to finish on a high after the England cock up.
(once we are in need of a new boss of course)
Just my opinion like
Anyone for Billy Fury??? heard he is after a job.
Let’s have an assistant manager first. UTB!
Reading Ken’s memoirs I was struck at how Boro attracted nearly 48,000 for a midweek game. How times have changed not just for Boro but Football in general. The Boro population has ebbed and flowed a bit over the years (currently creeping back up) but the competition for midweek attractions has multiplied considerably since those early post war years. From the advent of TV to the Internet and a myriad of Multiplexes and Bowling alleys etc. springing up not to mention Gyms and other alternative pastimes all enticing crowds away to watch and surf in comfort.
Ken also mentioned the old 235 formation. Not having seen it in decades it was at that point I hoped that GM doesn’t read this blog but if we see it against Barnsley the fingers will be pointing firmly in Ken’s direction!
As regards Martin O’Neil I think his time has passed now for day to day League Management. As regards Roy Keane I think he is best suited as a number two next to a calmer and more controlling influence but in reality I think there are far better number two’s out there and wouldn’t want to see him at the Riverside anytime soon. These two weeks have hopefully been timely for GM in enabling him to sit back, hopefully reflect and take counsel (even if it is only on blogs like this one) on the season to date. If he has made good use of the time we will start to see less chopping and changing along with a more settled side and tactical formation. He needs to create a stable platform with the challenge to the others that if they want a shirt then they have to impress.
RR
Regarding the midweek attendances it is really down to the demographic way that the Teesside workforce now finds itself
No indigenous large shipyards, reductions in the Steel and chemical industries and only one yard building offshore structures. Traditionally the workforce for these industries supplied the bulk of the match day crowd.
Now we have an itinerant workforce that either travels to work on a Monday returning Friday which prevents mid week attendance, or they are working offshore on a rota or overseas on a 28/28 basis which also precludes their attendance.
We also have our resident overseas supporters as we know from all those far flung Diasboreans who are all fervent fans
It is interesting to note that Boro take large numbers of fans with them to watch away games and it looks like they are taking over five thousand to Barnsley on Saturday.
OFB
Agree with RR, OFB and Old Billy re O’Neill. I think his time as a club manager has gone and I doubt if he would even be interested to be honest.
As for Allardyce, if we take him at his word that left Crystal Palace because he was no longer inspired by winning PL relegation battles, then he too would likely see Boro as an unattractive option, at least he would if he managed to get us promoted. I suspect he would have bigger offers if made his intentions to return to management public.
We are all disappointed with our start to the season but I wonder how much of that is down to SG’s ill advised “smash the league” comments. Had Gibson said “we’re going to take a good look at ourselves, rebuild the squad and management team and come back stronger within two years” (or something of that ilk), would we be as disappointed? Would we even be discussing Monk’s successor?
Gibson may have been right to try and give the fans a bit of lift and state his intentions following a terrible season in the Premier League but has he actually done as much harm as good with his smashing statement?
I always thought Sir Gibson meant the finances and signing new players. But of course that also meant to do very well in the league with high calibre players.
Inwould be nice to hear from Sir G a bit more often. But I think he does not interupt the manager and his role.
We will go up. Don’t you see it yet? It will start at Barnsley. Up the Boro!
Andy
Yes I would still be disappointed.
Firstly, by the manner in which we have played of late, which is indicative of a team without any structure, shape or clear purpose when taking to the field. Secondly, I am of the view that if you do not go back up first time then it becomes increasingly difficult to do so thereafter and you are more likely to spend an extended period in the Championship.
I agree that SG’s comments could have been chosen more wisely but nevertheless as a team and on an individual basis there has been an underperformance to date which has left me very disappointed.
http://www.spartak.by/en
Well that takes the biscuit!
🙂
Links dodgy & probably the buscuits too lol.
Anyhow its a buscuit factory in Belarus and it’s on Liam Foxes list of stops for new trade deals after Brexit.
🙂
I think I would still be disappointed regardless of SG’s comments.
Mainly due to the money spent compared to other teams and the inconsistent performances to date that are now spiraling downwards.
Regarding attendances, the local demographic has changed while the population has stayed relatively constant. Many traditional football watchers have left the area, migrants have moved in and a lot of them may not have the same interest in football or the passion for the Boro or the money to afford to go.
I would be interested in seeing ticket price comparison over the last 70 years adjusted for inflation.
Anyone got a calculator
I got married in 1961 and remember that the East end was 3 shillings (i.e.15 pence) .In the 1950s it was referred to as the bob end (i.e. 5 pence), but have no idea what that would equate to today. I do remember though when I started in Local Government as a 17 year old junior clerk my annual salary was £210 and the Borough Treasurer’s was £1,025. I remember thinking at the time that I could never ever imagine earning over £1,000 a year.
Also my first semidetached house cost £2,200 and my mortgage was £12 per month.
Ken Smith
Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on Edwards, Charles etc. It is very much appreciated and as fascinating as I hoped it would be. I’ve previously spoken to a couple of people who also saw Edwards play, what they said perfectly fits with your opinion. He seems to have been quite the player. Thanks again.
Ken,
I seem to remember 30p to get into the holgate in the early/mid 70’s.
My first wage in 1978 was 19 pounds a week as an apprentice. the tradesmen were getting 100 pound and I could not imagine earning 100 pound a week.
My dad bought his first house for 1,600 pounds in 1965.My first house was 11,000 pounds in 1982.
I also remember after decimalisation a packet of crisps was 2 new P.
Fortunately I never had to deal in guineas although I do know one guinea was worth 21 shillings, how stupid was that!
Typical English!
I am on holiday now and back on Friday the 20th. My prediction is a 1-3 win at Oakwell.
Up the Boro!
where are you holidaying Jarkko
Sunny Southbank or delightful Dormanstown maybe?
He’s heard of a place called Thorn Abbey he likes looking at historical things
Then he’s going to go to Pallister Park and walk around the duck pond
We had the 30th Anniversary of our marriage. We went to Sorrento near Naples. It was above 20 degrees every day, no wind and the sun was shining all week.
I would have preferred North Yorkshire and Barnsley but I let the heart (!) rule over head. She is my first love but Boro is a good second.
We plan to give a go for a visit to Riverside in April. Let’s see. Up the Boro!
I just love your optimism!
Enjoy your short holiday
OFB
Looking forward to Saturday now. Its becoming a bit of a routine.
Sign up to Barnsley Ifollow and pay $9.
Set the computer up near the TV with HDMI cable attached
Struggle to find the link page for the stream (start to panic as kick off approaches)
Finally find the link page and wait for it to load
Watch the 22 pixelated players warming up
Get frustrated as the stream quality comes and goes
wait for Boro’s unforced error resulting in Barnsley goal
Top up alcoholic beverage at half time (better make it a double)
Squirm as Boro battle to get back in it with missed chances and poor passing
Jump for joy as Boro equalise
Spend the last five minutes convincing myself that a point is a good point.
Dont lose it from here (another dodgy back pass)
Dont lose it from here (free kick given away just out side penalty box deep into stoppage time)
Breathe a sigh of relief at the final whistle
Listen to the manager saying “we are working hard and its coming”
Have another double whiskey
Check what you lot have to say on diasboro
Put the lights out
Go to bed
Just another beautiful day then in the life of a Diasborean !
Old Billy
Sounds identical to my Saturday with the exception that it is 6 euros and after the match still a few hours before bedtime, which gives me ample time to stew on the missed opportunities!
And drink more alcohol perhaps
Ken,
Your 15p entry in 1961 would now be worth 3 pounds and 6p according to the bank of England calculator.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/Pages/resources/inflationtools/calculator/default.aspx
OFB, Jarkko
My dad was offered two ICI houses when he first moved down from Scotland around 1960.
One was in Billingham and one in Haverton Hill. He thought the latter sounded very exotic and had to be talked out of it by my mother who had visited before as she had friends in the area.
We could have been boarded up in the house never to be seen again.
Strange thing about HH, none of the cars seem to have wheels.
The cops struggle to solve crimes as there are no dental records and everybody shares the same DNA.Whats in a name eh!
Just a warning Jarkko like
Well what has seemed like a month-long international break is just about over so it must be safe to come back out again. Boro will be looking to resume in a similar manner to the return after the last break and hopefully Garry Monk has found some answers to the questionable performances before the break. I’ve just posted up a match preview for Saturday – though a trip to Barnsley for Game 12 of the season doesn’t always end well for Boro managers…
https://diasboro.club/2017/10/12/championship-barnsley-vs-boro/
Nice one Werder
Remind us all of football just as we were reminiscing about the good old days.
Ah well, back to typical Boro…..
I’ll just get me safety helmet