Can We Really "Let It Go"?

by Si, posted in Uncategorized

The past isn’t always in the past for the Boro faithful. Simon Fallaha examines moving on in football, highlighting forgiveness, acceptance and re-acceptance in periods of transition for clubs

There was a moment in Boro’s largely dire return to the Premier League in 2016-17 that stood out, for this fan and analyst, as equally exhilarating and devastating. When news that Marten De Roon had gotten his head to a cross in the last minute score his first Boro goal, earning the team a point at the Etihad and sending the travelling fans wild, I was absolutely overjoyed, as any Boro fan in the moment would be.

This could, and still can, be remembered fondly. But not what directly followed. Before I knew it, the joy had subsided into sadly bitter vindication as I thought: “That ought to shut the moaners up.”

The “moaners” I was thinking of were those who, instead of simply embracing a good run of form from Adam Forshaw at the beginning of the season – which, like Boro’s season itself, fizzled out disappointingly fast – took the opportunity to have a pop at the manager, contemplating what would happen to him once De Roon was fit again.

Mutterings that then new fan darling Forshaw was only playing due to injuries and that they “knew” he would make a difference all along were pretty common. Too common, actually, especially in light of Grant Leadbitter and Adam Clayton’s proven partnership.

And rather extreme. It felt that seeds of toxicity that we thought we’d left in the past, along with that infamous weekend at Charlton, were being sown again, between perceived managerial favourites and perceived fan favourites. And worse, that De Roon, along with Victor Valdes, Alvaro Negredo, Antonio Barragan and later Bernardo Espinosa, did not seem fully welcome despite their clear efforts to fit in. Memories of calls for Valdes to leave after a solitary start are still frighteningly fresh.

In my view, this was hardly right and fair for any of them. The acceptance of new faces was proving extremely difficult. But – and this is true of both players and managers – is that an instance of toxicity, or reality?

It may seem churlish to dedicate plenty of angry and frustrated sentences to the dismissal of one coach, the omission of one or two players, one defensive minded substitution and two points dropped in one game when there is a club and squad that depends on support throughout an entire season.

It may seem ridiculous to believe a player isn’t up to it before he has even played a game. Giving newcomers the benefit of the doubt, after all, is part of the transition that happens all the time at every club in football.

And it may seem cruel to forever hold a grudge against a successful coach or player for a past misdemeanour that he would no doubt attempt to write off as a one-off, an unfortunate incident even.

I look back to Aitor Karanka’s tears following promotion, and can’t help wondering, albeit with hindsight, that they, a bit like my own unfortunate reaction to De Roon’s equaliser, were out of bitter vindication. At bouncing back from having his authority undermined and being spurned by naysayers for no good reason other than trying to make amends.

A bitter vindication that he almost certainly carried forward to 2016-17 in a failed attempt to show that Charlton was no more than a “storm in a tea cup” and all was well.

But was it always no more than a “storm in a tea cup” to him? It’s not stretching things to think that he had a “you’re all being a bit dramatic over one game, substitution or player when we’ve a whole squad and season to think about” attitude towards the fans whenever something went wrong or wasn’t to their liking. The supposed “little” things at the time? They all add up in the end. They were actually crucially reflective of the negative aspects in his character, his approach, and ultimately in the players he most regularly selected to play in the team. Every decision has a consequence and every quirk sparks a reaction. One cannot hope to be forever “saved” by the right results.

A manager can be successful and a player can do his job well, but if the character of either rubs a fan the wrong way then there is no point trying to change his or her mind just because a feeling of unity would seem nicer for all of us. Briefly, theorise how patronising the final ten games of 2015-16 might have come across to some: the managerial saviour, hung out to dry by the “heretics” who wouldn’t believe in him anymore, relishing in being magically resurrected just in time to lead Boro to the Promised Land. A triumph that looked less professional and more personal.

For some, what a player or manager did, does, can do or might do on the pitch may be enough, but for most, I gather, it might not be. The rapid fall from grace of Gaston Ramirez has left an arguably irremovable stain over all the magical qualities he showed us on top of his game, and Stewart Downing has stood out – rightly or wrongly – as a symptom of a strong collective crashing and burning. More than that, Downing, for whatever reason, simply hasn’t delivered what his fee, wages and status promised. For his sake and ours, these are things that we must be willing to overlook if he is to be wholly re-accepted into the fold under Garry Monk. Personally, I still believe he has a part to play – but does everyone?

The consequences in the aftermath of Rudy Gestede’s wrongly allowed equaliser and the celebrations that followed have had serious ramifications for several who were at the Riverside that day in November 2014. To his credit, Gestede has knuckled down, acclimatised to his still relatively new surroundings and clearly won a series of fans over with his commitment. Unfortunately the scars still linger for those most affected three years ago, and we have to accept and respect that. Not everyone is in the position of being able to appreciate his form from a distance.

There is a compelling argument that analysis should be confined to footballing arguments and that the efforts of those on the pitch should not be undermined and embarrassed by exalting those off it. Strong and fair though it sounds, it misses the point that fandom and analysis are separate entities. The reflective analyst, for example, can dress up a combative draw as part of rebuilding, an adjustment period, or a learning experience for a player or a team. The emotive fan, psyched up by a momentary knee-jerk response, is much, much less likely to. Subjective passion overrules objective rationality in the heat of competition, at sometimes terrible costs, and there’s no point pretending otherwise.

Of course, it’s not always personal. Some have welcomed Marvin Johnson’s potential and Ryan Shotton’s usefulness, others are not so sure about either player. I’m in the former camp myself, but I understand why some would be in the latter: the difficulty of the “benefit of the doubt” approach is that points may be dropped and confidence lost during the time it takes for the new faces to adjust.

And what of Britt Assombalonga? There is a feeling in some quarters that Patrick Bamford is being hard done by while our mostly misfiring Congolese marksman starts every game up top. From a distance, one can appeal for patience as he finds his way and hopefully, eventually, comes good. From closer up, frustration may be felt. Or worse, perhaps, an inkling that Monk is exhibiting what appears to be a common managerial trait, standing by his marquee signing until he silences the doubters or has absolutely no justification for starting him anymore. If it pays off, great – if not, we, as a club, will be paying many a price.

That is one of the many risks and realities that comes with accepting and integrating new arrivals – and it is the manner of how everyone accepts and deals with them that will determine how Boro move forward as a club today.

125 thoughts on “Can We Really "Let It Go"?”

  1. The problem is that every fan can take what he wants from any given performance by the Boro and criticise or praise. The natural Teesside cynicism breeds a good measure of each character and the moaners, well they’ll moan about something regardless.
    My Norwich. supporting neighbours really rate hime and were truly fed-up when he left Norwich and to a man they say that when he settles he’ll be a great acquisition.
    I think we give them all a chance, (the magic 10 games or longer) and support them because they’re wearing Boro red, or white, but we mustn’t forget that all fans have an axe to grind it’s just how they wield it.30,000 in the crowd and 30,000 different opinions. It’s what makes football so interesting and most fans are convinced they could do better than the chairman or manager. Perm any percentage you want there.
    All I can say is roll on Bolton and the pre- and post- match analysis.
    Thank you for the article Simon, very good indeed. Werder think we are going to need a best of ‘1917 Diasboro Fans Annual’ for all those Christmas stockings!
    OFB, don’t get too excited at the mention of stockings…
    UTB,
    John

      1. OFB,
        Finger trouble, probably brain trouble too, on the phone as always!r Ae youngsters fingers smaller than, er, adults? My children never seem to make cack-handed text errors. Should read 2017!
        Going to a cool dark place now.
        UTB,
        John

  2. Thanks, Simon. Another interesting read.
    I tend to agree with you on giving new signings the benefit of the doubt. Of course, some new players give you immediate excitement and hope, others can appear unfathomable and some we’ve simply never heard of but I think, generally, everyone should (and largely does) get a fair crack.
    I suppose the general mood around the manager and/or recruitment team affects our first impression of any signing. Once opinion has turned against a manager of recruitment strategy, we become a little more judgemental in his/their signings and quicker to write them off.
    On Assombalonga, I don’t think we’re anywhere the stage yet of describing Monk as “standing by him” and, if he is doing so, I don’t think it’s because Britt was the marquee singing. Assombalonga was a marquee signing because of how much he cost, which was a direct consequence of his record in the division (and one below). If Monk is standing by him, it is for that reason.

  3. Another thought provoking article Simon.
    I espouse the notion that new managers and players should not be written off before a ball is kicked but, as you say, once that day has passed, it’s in our nature as supporters to start forming judgements, fair or otherwise.

  4. When GM arrived and consigned Downing to the dustbin, Len and myself praised him for his swift action. In my case, I said I felt that his continued presence would prove divisive. Time will tell if that difficulty can be overcome.

  5. Speaking of moaners I chuckled when I just read this from tonights ROI game against Serbia from the Irish Mirror live coverage.
    20:12
    More good play from Hoolahan and Christie down the right
    What will Dunphy have to complain about now?

  6. I personally tend to be very black or white. I was dubious about the insensitive dismantling of the Promotion side and the bringing in of a very rusty, has been, vertically challenged Keeper who I never took to and never trusted (and nor did his Boro team mates). His ultimate dummy spitting was the ultimate accolade for my original deep seated mistrust.
    Barragan’s arrival I roundly condemned as being a journeyman RB that nobody wanted and who didn’t have the required skills to play the Karanka way. As bad as he could be even I didn’t factor in that he couldn’t take a throw in! Another smug tick on my column.
    Espinosa? Who on earth signs a crocked CB with no Premiership experience apart from Victor Orta! That was a big a no brainer as no brainers get.
    Traore for Adomah! That one still riles me contract or not. Then there’s Carlos de Pena who I opined was pretty garbage from my first viewing of his limitations.
    Rudy nearly tipped me over the edge. After his recent “history” I couldn’t believe that MFC could even think of signing him nor the lad himself have a brass neck as bold as he did, although that brass neck probably explains that Swansea header.
    Is it any wonder fans think they know more than Managers or Chairmen? I sense that “realist” argument being dragged up all over again. 😉

    1. RR
      Surprised and delighted to read your recall of a few misfires in the market, very much like my own(different players obv.)
      I generally accept the disappointing change on the basis that the manager will manage, that’s what he is there for.
      My chief moan(and that is the right word) happens when a player has moved to a new level(Bamford, anyone) and is left out of the team, there is no justification whatever for that, even the manager should be wondering, “how good is he? Have we got a full on premier league star on our hands or is it a glitch which will correct itself, meanwhile someone in that form can collect you four or five wins quickly.

  7. Redcar Red
    I tend to be white with a hint of grey or charcoal with my views. I will muse on why we brought someone in.
    Generally it is give them a chance but when the likes of Dong Gook or Folan arrive I struggle to come up with a justification.
    I was underwhelmed by the August 2016 acquisitions, my view of those who arrived in January was that they would contribute little to our survival, errr, efforts.
    The summer signings don’t seem to have many ‘why on earth’ players.
    My concern is whether we know how we are going to play.

  8. Great Post Si and as usual thought provoking !
    I still think Karankas biggest downfall was criticising the fans !
    No manager gets away with that
    Strachan came close to it with his Drink and Drugs outburst
    Show contempt for us and they’re out the door
    By the same token players like Ramirez and Valdez refusing to play for our club
    OUR CLUB !
    Were not fit to wear the shirt and will never be welcomed back to
    OUR CLUB !

  9. Can’t help thinking how our writing team on this blog keep coming up with fresh material
    Next thing you know we will be having videos of them discussing
    THE SAVELOY AND PEASE PUDDING SUPPER?
    OFB

    1. And there’s me thinking it comes covered in batter and served on paper with a pile of chips with a polystyrene tub of marrowfat peas on the side….

  11. OFB, where can I buy one in Boro?
    Secondly, where is the best Parmo? Or the original. I tried it once but I think I bought it from the wrong place. But I have to say it looks too heavy for me. I have difficulties even with chips now-a-days. I much prefer salads and that kind of things.
    Dear me, when is the next game? Up the Boro!

    1. Jarkko
      I would recommend that you buy your saveloy from Newboulds the butcher
      Parmos I like mine from Cafe Central Park opposite Albert Park Gates on Linthorpe Road
      Or
      Treebridge Hotel near Nunthorpe on the road to Stokesley
      Upex steak pies are a local delicacy from Lawson Industrial Estate near to MFC
      Or
      Petch the butcher at Great Ayton
      You know what you’ve done now don’t you ?
      You’ve started a new thread on where you can get the best Parmo !!!
      OFB

    2. Put your tin hats on! Get ready for incoming missiles!
      Raising the “Genesis of the Parmo” issue is like throwing a lighted match into a box of fireworks. People all over Teesside and beyond will be hammering away over their typewriter/keyboard/mobile phones, insisting the Parmo was invented at THEIR local pub or eaterie, and that nowhere else has ever cooked the famous culinary “masterpiece” as well.
      For what it’s worth, I have heard and read many times that the Parmo came into being at The Buck, Great Ayton, before spreading into Teesside, being cooked at the Europa in central Middlesbrough and other establishments around and about. However, no doubt there will be others who swear blind that it was invented at X, Y or Z.

      1. FD
        Believe it or not for one writing exercise I did I had to research the history of the Parmo
        Allegedly an Italian Prisoner of War was working locally and stayed after the war
        He started a restaurant on Linthorpe Road and created the Parmo.
        This restaurant became the Paradise which was opposite where Psyche is now on Linthorpe Road
        Check it out on Google
        OFB

  12. What irks me is the change of attitude towards our neighbouring clubs. I don’t recall any great uproar when we signed John Craggs from Newcastle years ago, or when Stan Anderson became our manager having played for both Sunderland and Newcastle. Imagine the furore today if we bought a Geordie or a Mackem.
    Imagine the outcry if say Ben Gibson signed for Newcastle! Judas, Judas would be the cry! It’s not confined to Boro fans; it happens at every club – Ashley Cole, for example.
    I can remember many years ago standing amongst Sunderland fans at the Roker end shouting and encouraging the Boro. OK, I got some ridicule, but that’s all, just banter; today I’d be in danger of ABH. Football nowadays has become so tribal.
    It doesn’t happen in other sports like cricket or rugby.
    Sad really, but a sign of the times I guess.

    1. Ken
      Small time compared with the giants of the game.
      You will not play for (insert any of the other big clubs at this point)
      It must surely be a restraint of trade.
      Still, nothing will wake the rulers of the game.

  13. Thanks to Simon for another interesting talking point to stimulate the conversation!
    I think one of the factors that determine whether a new player is accepted is often related to the expectations of supporters on whether the level of signing is deemed worthy and the first impression of how the players themselves measures up to that aspiration.
    In addition, the price tag at which the player arrives can often skew perceptions of what that player should be capable of – a high ticket price or high wage earner needs to live up to the expectations that comes with it and need to prove their worth – whereas a ‘bargain’ may be initially dismissed as a cheap option that is not up to the required grade.
    If we look at the signing of Gestede last January – many supporters were looking for a striker that could score the ‘missing’ goals in the Premier League and Rudy arrived as a player who had no track record in the top tier. He failed the quality test and each miss or miscontrolled ball vindicated the elements who saw him as out of his depth. Though now Boro are in the Championship it appears that he is now the right kind of player and many dismissed the idea of moving him on.
    In some ways Marvin Johnson is perhaps arriving as a Gestede equivalent in the Championship – at only a couple of million quid from League 1 his price tag has left many slightly underwhelmed that he’s now at an age where he’s already found his level. He hasn’t yet taken to the pitch but already I’m expecting his errors will be magnified as proof of his short-comings – though score a goal on your debut or make some decent runs and people will be hailing him a bargain – his future is in the balance.
    As for Stewart Downing, well many imagined the return of the prodigal son was our Merson signing – but his somewhat less than dynamic performances as he struggled to fit into Karanka’s system soon left many observing he was past it. This then escalated into the idea he’d only come back to feather his own nest and his wage packet and transfer fee were called into question. The problem for Downing is that he needs to prove it on the pitch week-in week-out to keep those who thought he’s past it and coming home was a comfortable option. Two years later he’s been unsuccessfully moved out and is probably now Boro’s biggest earner – all of which means he need to prove he deserves his wage packet for a significant section of fans.
    To some extent fans will forgive players who keep their heads down and show desire and work-rate – but creative players or strikers who don’t deliver risk the wrath of supporters if there’s no other attributes to display. Negredo started with something like ten games without a goal and his hefty wage packet risked him losing the crowd – but his tireless running and isolated battling won over many supporters who saw his desire was right, something that Gaston and to some extent Downing failed to demonstrate often enough.
    In the end many supporters feel it’s their entitlement to give their approval or not to players who wear the shirt – sometimes players will not cope with the expectations and their performances will suffer and bring on even more criticism and it becomes a vicious circle. Perhaps in the days of mega-wages there is little sympathy for those who fail to perform – after all, who has pity for someone on 20, 30 or 40 grand a week on 3-4 year contracts – they ultimately have to deliver to prove their worth and gain approval.

  14. Werder
    The other thing about fans is that eventually they will be right.
    There was a sketch in Steptoe and son which ran along the lines of father, Albert – not Adomah, telling son Harold that some bird had landed on someone’s house and that brought ill fortune.
    Harold told him that was stupid. Albert said the same bird had landed on Mrs Y’s in 1947 and she died. Harold retorted she had died ten years later at age 79.
    It didn’t matter, Albert was happy he had proved his point to his satisfaction.
    As fans we wait for the opportunity to say told you so. Downing is getting a kicking, so what, he got a kicking before he signed for Villa, fans had it in for him long before then.
    I understand Redcar’s comments about Valdes, when I first saw him at Villa I thought he was a ball boy!
    Some are more disappointing than others, Valdes and co came to do a job on one year loan deals, some left on better terns than others.
    The real disappointment for me was Ramirez, his career was revitalised under Boro and Karanka. His time at Boro got him back in to the Uruguay team when Soton and Hull had washed their hands of him.
    But, we do tend to forget that many South American footballers are itinerants who ply their trade all over the world. They leave their own countries to get the best out of their careers. They don’t buy in to a club. Even TLF was off to Madrid once we were relegated but he had the good grace to be heartbroken at our relegation and always said he would be back

  15. TLF and Merson are interesting cases. Merson did grumble in his book, “How Not To Be A Professional Footballer” about the treatment he received on his departure in contrast to TLF…
    “…The fans were less forgiving towards me than Robbo had been. As soon as I left, they were moaning. I was hated, they were making out that I’d let them down. I thought, “*Expletive* hell, how does that work?” I’d gone to Boro and done a job for them. The team was promoted, but I was the bad boy when I left. Juninho did it the other way round. He went there, they got relegated and then he left them behind, but he was a bloody hero afterwards. And don’t forget I’d left a big, big club to play for a Division One team. I’d learnt for the first time in my career that there was no pleasing some people.”
    What’s not mentioned in this paragraph is (a) the interview he did in which he took a swipe at the club’s drinking and gambling culture, (b) that not long before, he’d signed a five-year contract to commit himself to Boro “for life”, (c) that he was “tapped up” while on England duty. I accept now he had his demons to deal with but he handled it very badly. That said, the arrival of Gazza hadn’t helped.
    Juninho, on the other hand, got a big heroic exit. Blood, sweat and literal tears. We never expected a player of his calibre to stay with us anyway. And as for not being part of the open-top bus parade… well, some would argue, in his favour, that celebrating relegation and winning nothing makes no sense.

    1. Simon
      That’s strange, because I thought that Merson was one of the best buys in many years. Supposedly with problems, but by gosh he was the gift that kept on giving. Players leaving are part of the game.

  16. On the other hand… celebrating winning nothing? For that matter, not winning a game at an international tournament? Yes, when the journey has been as transcendent, unifying and uplifting as this one…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lZPBh1AHU4
    As an aside, trivia. Two years before, following Euro 88, Big Jack asked a journalist, “They’re talking about a civic reception tomorrow. What do you think? We’ve won nothing, we’ve just got beat.”
    The journalist told Jack that he thought the whole team should go to the reception, because people wanted to show their appreciation.
    That journalist? Eamon M. Dunphy.
    The irony.

  17. Putting merson in the same house as gazza was a recipe for disaster.
    I suppose it could have been worse, could have given gazza the keys to the team bus!

  18. Simon
    Do you have three hands or was the second other hand merely returning to the first hand?
    If you had three hands it would help explain how you get so many old quotes up so quickly.

  19. Ha! Ian, I simply googled some of those words to a point where I’d written them before, then copied and pasted them.
    Old Billy, I take it you’ve read the Boro-based chapters of How Not To Be A Professional Footballer too? Having Merse and Gazza share a house, that was man-management (!) for you. I believe prior to Gazza moving in, Robbo was paying Merse’s van-driver relative £400 a week to keep Merse company because Merse’s own family wouldn’t move up.

    1. It was a good read, however, the drinking culture that allegedly existed did not make me proud to be a Boro fan at that time.
      Question is , what could we have achieved with the same players and a more disciplined approach.
      OFB
      I was always a sucker for a pork pie from blackwells butchers in Norton high street when I lived there. My son is in Teesside on a six month working/travelling visit and althought he has spent most of his time in europe, he loves nothing more than a parmo or a blackwells pork pie, preferably still warm from the oven.
      Now I am drooling

      1. When I used to work in Norton Road we used to send the lad out at 9:30 to go and get Blackwell Pies for our 10 o clock
        Brilliant I was so greedy I used to have two!

  21. Dragging up an argument from the past, living in Norton, supporting Boro from near or far for 45 years, and eating lots of pork pies. Does that make me a true Boro supporter or a makem in disguise from north of the tees?
    I don’t care were we come from we are all in it together, physically and emotionally.
    I could not possibly live any further from the riverside unless I lived on the moon but I still live and breathe every minute
    UTB

  22. I remember Newboulds pork pies featured on a radio 5 show with Peter Allen and Jane Garvey they presented from Teesside.
    Down in Derby my daughter swears by Birds pork pies (a small bakery a bit like the old Sparks shop network), my son prefers the ones from Chatsworth Farm Shop. They are polite about mine should I make one though my daughter does buy one from Birds ‘just in case’.
    The centre of the pork pie world is about 30 miles away in Melton Mowbray, every second shop seems to sell Pork Pies.
    Other local delicacies include Bakewell Puddings, nothing like the tart with a cherry. Exceedingly rich and served warm, best with Vanilla ice cream.
    http://www.bakewellpuddingshop.co.uk/bakewell-pudding–tarts-10-c.asp
    Another is Staffordshire oat cakes, a bit like a cross between a pikelet and pancake but made out oat flour. They are great warm and folded over with a filling. Bacon and egg are a great combination as always but bacon paired with tomato or chees work well.
    You can tell I have some paperwork to do and am heartily fed up of the interminational break..

  23. Good thought provoking article as usual Simon, well done. It got me trying to think of new players who’ve been accepted or not and why, and of whether or not past discretions on or off the pitch are ever really forgiven.
    I remember the arrival of Andy Peake during the Lennie Lawrence years. I initially thought he was just Lennie’s mate who’d followed him from Charlton, he was past it, he looked older than Lennie and wouldn’t be up to much. He was actually quite poor in his first year but we won promotion to the Premier League and I hoped we’d move him on. I was very wrong, he was excellent in the top flight where the extra space and time complimented his hitherto hidden qualities. He faded eventually, like the rest of the team, and we were relegated but he’d definitely redeemed himself in my eyes.
    Other new arrivals like Uwe Fuchs & Marco Branca were a different case. I’d never heard of them so had no prejudiced preconceptions but they struck gold immediately, scored goals and were instant heroes. Then, for different reasons, they disappeared quickly before their star even had a chance to fade. Maybe they were they both unlucky and lucky at the same time, untarnished heroes.
    Andy Payton was a similar case but definitely unlucky. Arrived with a great goal scoring reputation and much anticipation and scored immediately, I was there, it was great. He was a hero, he was gonna be a legend . . . he got injured, he was gone and is hardly remembered.
    Gazza, arrived with all the reputation in the world . . good on the pitch and bad off it. As the King of Geordies was he ever gonna be accepted on Teesside no matter what he did or was he only here to divvy-up the taxi fare home from Yarm with Robbo. It didn’t help early on that Robbo gave him Higgy’s spot for the cup final but I also remember some sublime moments on the pitch. He was untouchable in a home game with promo-rivals Wolves near the end of that season and was instrumental back in the top flight the following one. However, it ultimately ended in embarrassing failure with him breaking an arm on George Boateng’s head in a sorry live match defeat against Villa. No way back after that.
    Of course there are some famous non-Boro examples. David Beckham being sent off and blamed for our elimination in one World Cup was ultimately forgiven when he got qualified us for the next one on his own.
    Also Ronaldo, a nationwide figure of hate after helping to get Man Utd team mate Rooney sent off at World Cup 2006 would be welcomed back to Old Trafford, and probably every other PL club, at the drop of a hat should he decide to grace us with his presence any time soon.
    It’s definitely a funny old game, but only some of the time.

  24. The most infamous was George Kinnell also know as Foo after his successful attempt to stop us getting promoted. He can from the Mackems with little to recommend him and he lived down to that expectation.
    People bemoan some of Strickens jocks but they were veritable successes compared to some of the incoming during Gates tenure. Many were underwhelming on paper and didn’t disprove those thoughts.

  26. “Sir” Bruce Rioch says Bernie. Boro’s best ever Manager. Hard to disagree, given the situation he came into and what was achieved with a bunch of local youngsters.

  27. On a completely different theme, just learnt from the EFL that if you live in a country where the EFL does not have an international broadcast partner they can arrange to unblock your streaming. This means that if a match involving the Boro (eg Bolton) has been chosen to be broadcast elsewhere in the world then you can still have access to the stream.
    As I am in Spain, EFL do not have a broadcast partner so they have unblocked me and allowed me to have access to the blacked out matches.
    I believe this will also apply to selwynoz and others who are based in Australia and perhaps some supporters in other countries. A full list of the EFL international broadcast partners can be found on the EFL website.
    You may wish to review the list and if you are in a country where they do not have a broadcast partner, then contact the EFL and advise them of your domicile and request that they allow you access to the blacked out streams so that you can watch this weekends match and any other Boro match chosen in the future for broadcast outside the U.K.

  34. OFB
    Good to see your mention of Central Park. My brothers live in London but held season tickets for many years and their routine for all Saturday games involved early departure, breakfast at Woodall and lunch at Central Park. I joined them on the few occasions that I was in the UK but never had the Parmo.
    On the subject, this week I was watching the Hairy Bikers on Oz to doing a show on comfort food and they did a version of what they called the national dish if Middlesbrough, the Parmo. Oven baked but a great mixture of chicken, cheeses etc. Looked great.
    I also remember from my youth going into Rea’s just next door to where CO Nic us for a knickerbocker glory. The ultimate treat. I can’t listen to Chris Rea without thinking if it.
    UTB
    .

  35. Gestede being injured may end up being a blessing in disguise. Bamford could play further forward for instance.
    I also feel that knocking high balls into the box is meat and drink for most decent championship centre backs. We have the players and ability to swamp most defences with skill and guile, now we have an extra place in the team to accommodate a more skillful type.
    Just hoping and guessing like. UTB

  36. Gestede is most useful 25-30 metres from opposing goal. He gives an option for defenders playing out and pulls opposing defenders forward, creating space behind them. He’s also bloody useful defending corners.
    Bamford is certainly not a target man and so the system will have to change a bit. Interesting to see what GM does. Maybe back to an attacking version of 4-2-3-1.

    1. Agree Simon,
      Bam Bam has history and can finish, for all Gestede is improved from last season we are not seeing a return in the “goals for” column.
      We do have the skill and speed to get round and through defences, just got to pick the correct system.
      Who would be a manager?

  38. I think Bamford has been excellent coming in from the right and linking play and Inwould keep him there.
    Baker looks a natural no. 10 behind Britt so Gestede’s untimely injury should not be too much of a problem in my eyes. I would go to a 4231 with the wide left spot up for grabs between the returning Braithwaite, mobile Fletcher, reintegrated Downing, youthful exuberance of Tavernier or new-boy-with-a-point-to-prove Johnson.
    Options.

  39. Andy R
    In 4231, the three behind the striker should be forever moving, Bamford’s best work has appeared to be towards the middle where his deft touches and passing through the lines has been setting up opportunities.
    We need forward thinkers in those roles to feed Assombalonga and getting up to and beyond him into the box.
    That also means we have to push up the pitch, the midfield has to shield the back four and support the strikers in their half. The likes of Bamford and Traore etc need to be strutting their stuff in the last third.
    If we play like that Traore and co may be more effective, they only have to create space and play a ball rather than make fifty yards as well. defenders don’t like pace but if you play far enough away from their goal they can crowd players out, even foul them. Tackling around your own box is fraught with danger against quick and tricky players.
    Players like Harry Arterful Dodger at Bournemouth have made a career out of being struck by snipers bullets in and around the box.

    1. Ian
      Just watched Bamford goals from 14/15
      We have not fielded a player as quick as him in thought and action for a long time.
      As with most ” fox in the box” players, the instant touch makes the goal, and the defenders are always very annoyed, because they thought they had every eventuality covered, except Patrick of course.

  40. PS
    That isn’t support for diving, I believe in retrospective cards for the offence. I am inclined to allow the fourth official to look at cases in ‘goal scoring’ positions in and around the box.

  41. I received this text on Tuesday night “Gestede out for the season – ruptured thigh”. It looks as though we might not see him again this season, as I am told this is a very serious injury and could be career threatening.
    Come on BORO.

    1. Just watched GM press conference and he said it was a freak dead leg which bled and then bled again
      He had a very minor operation and although he couldn’t say how long he would be out he never mentioned career threatening

      1. OFB if it is career threatening GM is unlikely to say at this time, my source knew about it Tuesday but it didn’t make the press (or anyone else) until today, and at the time (Tuesday) it was thought to be serious, only time will tell.
        Come on BORO.

  42. I do take exception to AV’s criticism of Glenn Hoddle in his Gazette article where he writes “If YOU were stranded on a desert island with Glenn Hoddle and a tin of spam YOU would be very tempted to eat him and talk to the spam”.
    Of course AV is entitled to his opinions but I’m surprised he used the word “you” instead of “I”. I like Hoddle’s analyses, but wouldn’t presume that everyone would agree with me because that is merely my opinion. Likewise AV shouldn’t presume everyone agrees with his opinions either.

  44. I feel it pertinent that I should point out and make it perfectly that I was out of the Country when Gestede was crocked and absolutely nowhere near Rockliffe. Not one of my favourites admittedly but I hope he makes a full and swift recovery, wouldn’t wish that type of injury on my worst enemy. Meantime it forces Monk to stop humping wasteful and up until now pointless long balls up to him.
    Apparently Gaston left us because of the weather? Confusing because I thought it was originally because of his alleged “away” performances and then Leicester came calling. Clearly the weather in Leicester must be much sunnier than it is in Boro. I give it until February/March until his agent starts trotting out links to Chelsea, Madrid, Barca, PSG etc. and no doubt ending up at Villa!

  45. I see we have brought over another Brazilian, 21 year old Matheus Caliman from Ituano, Juninho’s club. Reading on the Gazette page I noted that it mentioned Joao Morelli who we currently have loaned out to Levadia Tallinn, in Estonia, where he’s scored an incredible 15 goals in just 20 appearances.
    I doubt that the level of football in Estonia is class leading (which seems all the more puzzling as to why we would send him out there) but that is a more than decent return. Apart from game time and fitness I’m not sure what it proves? I’m sure MFC staff are keeping tabs on him but its maybe worth recalling him and sending him out to a League 1 club and see how he does as its almost impossible to benchmark and measure where he is.

    1. I visit Tallinn regularly on business. The whole country has a population of 1,3 million. So the league cannot be that competitive but they are good sportsmen there. Joao Morelli plays for one of the two biggest team there – it is a bit like Celtic/Rangers but only in a very small league. Very seldomly we see Finnish players crossing the bond to play there even though it is the only country in the world with a language related anyway to Finnish language (OK, Hungary is also distantly related to our language).
      So I was surprised Joao was sent over there – even Finland would have been better and of course Sweden. Up the Boro!

  46. Listened to the press conference, the injury to Gestede is a wait and see, minor operation after the ‘deadleg’ started bleeding again. Need the swelling to go down to assess the damage.
    That was my understanding of it anyway.
    On the press conference itself, it was good to see it without it being chopped in to advert sized chunks by the Gazette.
    Maybe that is why Vic would rather talk to Spam (other processed pork products are available) than Hoddle, he is used to Spam at the Gazette, or PEK, or luncheon meat, or saveloy. Didn’t get on with Chorizo.

  47. Jarkko
    I understand how geography would link Finnish to Estonia, but how is it connected to Hungarian?
    I’m not sure if Boro fans care if we sign players from Sunderland.
    Leadbiter seems sufficiently valued, possibly more than ever. Especially as he isn’t playing, as Ian Gill would possibly point out.

      1. Yes. The link tells the story. Naturally we cannot understand the Hungarian language anymore.
        I have a good friend who came from Kosovo after their war. When he came, he saw people talking on the streets and wondered why we have so many Hungarian tourists in Finland. Later he learnt that the people were locals but he says the languages sound distantly similar.
        But learning our language is hard work for foreigners that’s for sure. Usually the visitors cannot even guess what we are talking about in our language.
        Goss, it is great to have a match tomorrow. Up the Boro!

  50. I think we’ve accepted Grant as “one of our own”, even though he’s a Mackem. To the point where, I’m sorry to say, there were voices muttering that his treatment in 2016-17 was “disgraceful” even though he was injured and needed to ease his way back in.
    Alas, it appeared the coaching staff had lost fan trust to the point where, even though there was no explicit, concrete reason not to believe what Sir Aitor of Karankashire was saying, the faithful didn’t quite believe him.

  51. If he had his leg encased in plaster and hobbling on crutches some would take one off him to beat AK with.
    It has happened before, I remember when Mendi’s legs had clearly gone, you watched him in cameos and he struggled, some were still adamant we would be better with him in the side.

  52. Back to the food link. All that talk of spam has me reminiscing about school dinners. Spam was for those who arrived late or were last in the queue. Done in batter and dripping with grease it was disgusting.
    But some of the food was terrific.
    Before the days of Jamie Oliver we could enjoy chicken casserole, meat and dumpling or jam roly poly and treacle pudding.
    The deadline day rumors are nothing when compared with the morning rumor that it was ice cream for dessert. The rumor spread like wildfire and then
    the race was on! Once the bell sounded we were off like Traore with the wind behind him,
    You had to be on table 1 so you could scoff your ice cream and be the first for seconds. The fudge sauce was to die for.
    No kids I knew had intolerance to dairy, lactose or had nut allergies.
    Happy days, not an eppy pen in sight.
    U T B

  53. Looks like AV is NOT happy with “blessing in disguise” comments regarding gestede. I made those comments yesterday an while I don’t know if AV is referring to me, I did not mean any malice to the player. All players will get injured from time to time. It’s the nature of the beast.
    My comments were aimed at the system we play.
    I disagree with AV about gestedes input as for all he gets his head to the ball, nothing ever comes of it.
    Champ defenders can deal with it all day long. It’s what they are best at. How often do we score from corners?
    With the quality we have I would like to see the skills at ground level.
    If AV was aiming his fury at me, at least we know he follows the blog.
    UTB and best wishes to Rudy.

  55. Rudy Gestede is, in a way, the Championship Emile Heskey – the second tier forward absolutely no one rates but still puts in a good shift every time and can be more valuable than he looks. Every natural finisher needs a brave, hard-working, physical foil to contribute, to hold the ball up, knock it down and create space for them. Gestede has all of these attributes, plus a neater poacher’s instinct on him than you think – his first goal for Boro, lest we forget, was a marvellously executed overhead kick.
    I bring up Heskey because pundits actually used to call our old Wembley nemesis the poor man’s Michael Ricketts.

  56. Time to give it a go, forget what the other team does, we should be dominating and pressing ,
    I expect us to have the majority of possession , so pick an attacking line up.
    Randolph
    Ayalla Shotton Gibson
    Fabio, Leadbitter,Clayton, Howson , Downing
    Assombolonga, Bamford.
    Subs will be the usuall.
    Get at it and turn them over!
    UTB

  57. Simon,
    Heskey scored goals.
    on second thoughts so did Gestede before he came to Boro.
    What do Boro do to stop strikers from scoring? or is it just our expectations.
    Hope Rudy makes a quick recovery he is a talented player but in my view his talents should be our plan B.

  58. “Afonso Alves was Europe’s golden boot when he arrived having whacked in nearly a goal a game in Holland and in Sweden the year before that.
    “The £12.7m man was paraded at a Riverside Samba carnival and started well but within months had fizzled out and looked a shadow of his former self.
    “Typical Boro.
    “Before that it was Massimo Maccarone, Italy’s hottest striking prospect and the first in a generation to play for the national side when in Serie B.
    “Again, he started well before visibly shrivelling and ended up a sad nomadic figure on a loan tour of Italy, although obviously he will be forgiven everything for his last gasp iconic Euro goals.
    “Fabrizio Ravanelli: A much loved cult hero for three months but he never scored away after November as the goals dried up to be replaced by sulky strops, misquotations and doom-laden predictions of relegation before skulking off (with the fixtures and fittings) a year later.
    “Peter Davenport? Billy Ashcroft? Andy Payton? *groan*
    “The club’s official record price tag they wheel out at the unveiling ceremony must be made of kryptonite.”
    — AV, July 2013

  59. One more quote for good measure. It’s on Ravanelli.
    “(At the end of 1996-97) Ravanelli comically priced himself out of the market, demanding a tax-free £50,000 weekly wage from the interested parties at Goodison Park. It was fitting to see him forced to play in the side’s opening match of the following season. Believing his services to be essential, his skills and talent unimpeachable, it was Ravanelli’s arrogance that defined him. Eventually, he swallowed a £5.5 million move to Marseilles once it became clear the likes of Juve and Milan were disinterested in players who were best known for their childish antics. Rav got his just desserts. Ironically, he never again reached his peak from the summer of 1996. Middlesbrough got him at the zenith of his career, and had he displayed any enthusiasm at playing for his high-flying new employers, he could probably have negotiated the move of his dreams. As it happened, his enormous wages, coupled with his sneering attitude at his new home, earned him the enmity of an entire region. A shame, as Teesside has not seen such a consummate and natural goalscorer since the days of Brian Clough.”
    — Mike Baker, “The Year That Had It All”, c. 1999

  60. Simon,
    Your list of Striker flops is impressive but you missed out Kris Boyd.
    Billy Ashcroft was that bad we turned him into a centre back.
    Lee dong gook and Alf Wood were also non scoring strikers though I seem to remember they were non scoring before they arrived, now that is typical Boro.
    You suggest that Rav was the best since Clough, watch out, Bernie might have something to say about that.

    2. It was ever thus even between Mickey Fenton’s retirement to Brian Clough’s emergence. Alec Linwood, Cecil McCormack, Andy Donaldson, Neil Mochan, Ken McPherson, Peter McKennan, Charlie Wayman, Doug Cooper, et al.
      However after Clough’s departure Alan Peacock did pretty well although he was a local product.Strange how Newcastle after Jackie Milburn never seemed to have the same problem.

  61. Chaps, been busy yesterday but many thanks for the good tips and places to enjoy the local food delights.
    I will keep the info for the next visit. I hope to visit Boro in early spring time. I hope we are in top six by then.
    Up the Boro!

  64. Still no news from the Middle East so I guess I will not be able to watch the match tomorrow. May be last seasons overkill on the TV as too much as it is disheartening to watch defeat or draws week in and week out. So it might be a good thing to read about it in RR report.
    As has been said here many times we should just keep it simple play a straightforward game and play route 2.
    From the analysis I have read on our blog it does look like even in this league it will be small margins in each side that determine the end results- I hope that our squad tips the balance in this respect but …. this is Boro and we are prepared for disappointment aren’t we.
    Still its two days to go.
    Just watchin paint dry, like
    UTB

  68. The idea that Bernie was in the Ravanelli class as a striker must be some kind of joke. My first contribution to this blog was to challenge Bernie’s self-styled legendary status by opining that have been at least 25 strikers better than Bernie at the club since the WW2. My second contribution was to name them.
    Some strikers are born offside, some achieve offsideness, and some have offside thrust upon them. With Bernie it was all three. In any single game he must have nipped more Boro attacks in the bud than any defenders who ever played against us.
    So-called legendary status is in the gift of the Boro fans, not of the players themselves.
    I’ll give you Wilfie, Cloughie, TLF, and Souness. After that it’s about personal tastes and preferences. And any nominee that is the subject of considerable debate has thereby little entitlement to the ultimate status. Nor has any player who nominates himself.
    Within this overall context Bernie doesn’t even make it to the starting gate.

    1. Len. You can’t not have John Hickton in any abbreviated list of Boro legends, or is this where you start play the personal tastes and preferences card. Folklore certainly has a lot to do in deciding who should be classed as a legend, but apart from that, what other attributes make one qualify>
      I suppose in the end it will always be an impossible to task to truly identify who the legends have been, given that already I cannot claim to have witnessed either of Clough or Mannion (both before my time) so what would I base my judgement on? For the record my Dad thought Clough was no more than someone lucky who got in the way of the ball. Obviously I can’t say one way or the other, but boy could we do with someone now that can get in the way of the ball in a similar fashion!

      1. Powmil
        I laughed out loud at the joke by your father, ” he got in the way of the ball” love it.
        The truly great strikers always possess one ingredient above all others, and that is an absolute obsession with putting the ball in the net.
        This has a side effect, the crowd become one with them, watching every run, every kick. Why? Because scoring is the only trick worth having in football, possess that and you are a god to your supporters.
        If you want some idea what it was like watching Clough, think what it was like for the defenders who had to deal with him.
        They were good, being in the right place at the right time, always being near him, having plenty of back up from their team mates.
        Not a bit of good, he was like a very good hunting dog, but the ball was his prey.
        He scored them in any form, from anywhere.
        Three’s four’s and five’s were meat and drink to him, and he was never satisfied,
        It was never enough, he wanted more.
        It’s the stories about you that tell your legend.
        ” if I score six next time, do you think we might win”
        Modern players can only dream about anecdotes such as that

    2. It is right that you can only really appreciate the players that you have seen and though I’m not a young man, Bernie was the business as far as I am concerned. All his obvious failings made his stats all the more impressive. No strength, no speed, no real threat in the air, no ability to beat the offside trap (being the old school version of barragan’s throw ins for the younger generation) but what a finisher. And for those for still long for the holgate, that fence jump and obvious passion for the job he did make him cult hero and legend in one. Plus he is a fan of Morrissey so his dedication to the quiff is impressive.

  69. The problem of legends is affected by who you saw play plus memories from those who saw them play especially at a young age.
    Fenton and Camsell would be legends that my dad would have been told about.

  70. I have an update on iFollow for anyone in Australia. I asked them to unblock the Bolton game and they have just written back to say that rights discussions are ongoing and so they can’t unblock Australian access for this game.
    I have pointed out to them that it seems unlikely that any rights discussions will be concluded in the one day that remains to them before the weekend in which this game will be played. That being the case, I asked if they could reconsider unblocking Australia for this game. I haven’t had an answer yet but I’ll post if I hear anything positive. If not, it may well be back to Bet 365.
    UTB

  71. Tomorrow will be an interesting Boro line up after the Preston non-performance and with Gestede ruled out for the foreseeable. Most of us I think want to see Bamford utilised from the off and regard him as possibly our best bet on getting up and out of this league. To date it appears Monk doesn’t see it that way although in fairness we have had the advantage of watching Paddy bang goals in a couple of seasons back on a regular basis.
    If Bamford is pushed up front then surely Stewy comes into the No.10. If he does it will be interesting to contrast his contribution with mobile Strikers to pick out instead of a solitary isolated individual marked by two or more unoccupied defenders. Will Traore make a return or has he upset a few after his absence, enforced or otherwise against Preston. Its too early still for Braithwaite as reported on here weeks ago (whilst the Echo was claiming otherwise) but Fletcher may now also hope to gain some game time in Gestede’s absence.
    Whatever line up GM goes with I hope he abandons the three at the back car crash of a few weeks back and sticks with a stable back four. Resolute, organised and strong including Fry on merit, please no tinkering with Shotton or even Ayala come to that. Its too early to say tomorrow is a must win game but Bolton are bottom for a reason but as Preston proved at the Riverside a gutsy, disciplined performance can outwit moneybags Boro. No pushover but I expect a 1-3 Boro win with Stewy netting one and one apiece for Britt and Bamford.

    1. RR
      I fancy Fabio to start at LB and Baker to take the no 10 role with Downing on the bench
      Fry has to play and I think Bamford will line up on the left Assambalonga middle and Traore right
      Just hope for a win
      OFB

  72. Redcar Red
    I would be ok with a return to a 4231 (442/4411) approach.
    Dimi
    Christie, Fry, Gibson, Friend
    Clayton plus one other, probably Howson.
    That would give us the solidity needed to launch attacks, then the tricky bit, the four attackers.
    Up front Britt to bully and run the channels. The three is interesting,I wouldn’t be heartbroken at Traore, Bamford and Downing. Fletcher, Baker, Johnson come in to the mix.
    We will see.

    1. I’d be happy with:
      Randolph
      Christie, Fry, Gibson, Friend
      Clayton, Leadbitter
      Stewy
      Bamford, Assombalonga, Fletcher
      Subs:
      Dimi,
      Johnson,
      Fletcher,
      Ayala,
      Fabio
      Baker
      Traore
      Couldn’t squeeze Howson and Forshaw in there nor Shotton. I suspect however that GM will start with Howson over Grant and baker over Downing.

  74. As Clayton is on 4 yellows I would leave him out for Bolton and play Grant with Howson, if Clayton picks up a yellow against Villa he can still play against QPR but would miss the cup match against Villa.
    With, what I believe will be a tougher game on Tuesday I would start with
    Randolph
    Christie Shotton Fry Gibson Friend
    Howson Leadbitter
    Traore Assombalonga Johnson
    Subs
    Dimi
    Ayala
    Fabio
    Braithwaite (if fit)
    Bamford
    Fletcher
    Baker
    All depending on training over the past two weeks
    Come on BORO.

  76. Simon Fallaha earlier quoted Mike Baker “The year that had it all” which finished by saying that Boro hadn’t had a natural goal scorer since Brian Clough which probably isn’t quite correct, but I just thought readers might find a list of Boro’s leading scorers in league matches only (un)interesting?
    ————————————————–goals/appearances
    George Camsell 1925/39 —————————–325/418
    George Elliott 1909/25 ———————————-203/344
    Brian Clough 1955/61 ———————————–197/213
    John Hickton 1966/78 ———————————–159/415
    Mickey Fenton 1932/50 ———————————147/240
    Alan Peacock * 1954/64———————————125/218
    Bernie Slaven * 1985/93———————————118/307
    Wilf Mannion (inside forward) 1938/54 ————-100/350+
    Billy Pease (inside forward) 1926/33 —————–99/249
    Lindy Delapenha (inside forward/winger) 1950/58 90/260
    David Mills (inside forward) 1968/79 & 1984/85 —90/296
    Jackie Carr (inside forward) 1911/30 —————–75/449
    Bill Harris (wing half/inside forward) 1954/65 ——72/378
    Johnny Spuhler (winger/centre forward) 1946/54 -69/223
    Bobby Bruce (inside forward) 1927/35 —————65/237
    Steve Bloomer 1906/10 ———————————-59/125
    Billy Birrell (winger/inside forward) 1920/27 ——–59/218
    David Armstrong (midfielder/winger) 1971/81 ——59/359
    Alf Common 1905/10 ————————————-58/168
    Andy Wilson 1914/15 & 1921/23 ———————–56/ 73
    Benny Yorston (all forward positions) 1933/39 —–54/152
    S.G. Cail 1907/13 ——————————————52/135
    Arthur Horsfield 1963/69 ———————————51/111
    Paul Wilkinson 1991/96 ———————————-50/161
    Geoff Walker (winger) 1946/55————————–50/240
    F.W. Warren (winger) 1929/35 ————————–49/160
    Alex McCrae (inside forward) 1948/53—————-47/122
    Alan Foggon 1972/76 ————————————-45/115
    Ian Gibson (inside forward) 1962/66——————-44/168
    John Hendrie 1990/96 ————————————44/192
    Derrick Downing (winger) 1965/72 ——————–39/182
    Jimmy McClelland 1925/27 ——————————38/ 62
    John O’Rourke 1966/68 ———————————–38/ 64
    Arthur Kaye (winger) 1960/65—————————-38/164
    Jim Irvine 1964/67——————————————-37/ 91
    Scott McDonald 2010/13———————————-37/116
    Hamilton Ricard 1998/2001——————————-33/115
    Craig Hignett (midfielder/forward) 1992/98———–33/155
    Charlie Wayman 1954/55———————————-31/ 55
    Juninho (1995/97,1999, 2002/04)———————–29/120
    All centre forwards except where indicated.
    * post Clough era – natural goal scorer?
    Interestingly Mark Viduka scored 26 league goals/72 apps,
    Yakubu 25 in 73, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink 23 in 58 and Massimo Maccarone 24 in 80 appearances but all in the 21st century.

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