Forever Dormo has put his thoughts together to assess where relegation has left the club following our disappointing season in the Premier League.
The table doesn’t lie. We might have been unlucky in this incident (failure to be given a penalty at Anfield, unfortunate to concede one against Man City at home etc), but that is not the reason for our relegation this season. We were simply not good enough, not well enough led, and on balance the results over the season reflect that.
Defence: We have been for much of the season, and until the game was almost up, fairly solid at the back. That is partly due to being spectacularly unadventurous further upfield. Of course the defence had been a mark of quality in the club over the past two seasons in the Championship and proved adequate early on in the Premier League season but, with injuries, and as shackles were removed when the team was up against it in the last couple of months and there was a pressing need to take more risks, the defence became more porous. Of course other Premier League teams had, by then, more opportunity to see the weaknesses and take advantage.
Fabio has generally be good(ish), Friend has had his season disrupted by injury after struggling to come to terms with the division at the start of the season, then improving before injury, then struggling again when brought back, but he always tries and is easily good enough in the Championship where, if uninjured, he should be one of the better players next season. Ayala is to fitness what I am to ballet dancing and I am not convinced he is a Premier League player but again, if we could see him regularly, he will also be a very good Championship player next season. Chambers has been good and might be a better centre half than a full back, but he will already be back in London as we speak, probably wanting a chat with Mr Wenger about his prospects next year. Ben Gibson, apart from a couple of wobbly games, has been our most consistent performer. He is clearly a leader on the field, a very competent Premier League player and I think could easily fit into one of the top teams. He will improve further. He can hold his head up high and be proud of his achievements this season and few Boro fans would begrudge him if he moved away to fulfill his England ambitions.
Midfield: It is no surprise that our “holding midfielders” were able to perform creditably earlier in the season, but there has been virtually no spark or invention, or attacking intent in the team. If the club had a team bus, it would have been carefully parked. Clayton has generally been solid. Leadbitter is not able to be the dominating holding midfielder in the Premier League that he has been in previous years in the division below, but he might be a good squad player next season in the Championship, where, hopefully, we will not see the need to double or treble-up in defensive midfield. Forshaw seemed better a few months ago than he is now. I had expected him to “come on” this season, even at a higher level.
Attack: Up front we have been shot-shy (and if you don’t buy a ticket, you can’t win the Lottery, as they say), with Negredo usually forty yards away from his nearest team mate, and left to plough his own lonely furrow. If he headed the ball down, there was usually nobody near enough to pick the ball up. Bamford joined us late on, we are told rather unfit and certainly lacking in game-time in the last 18 months. He might have been started earlier than he was and we know from previous experience that he can cope well and should score goals in the Championship next season, provided he has a supply.
So far as concerns those who might have been expected to supply the bullets for the lonely chap up front, do we really need to say much about Ramirez? He obviously has some talent (he jolly well should have for the money paid, and the wages he receives) and there have been rare flashes, but they are far outweighed by dummy-spitting petulance and what seemed to the amateur observer a lot like lack of effort. He didn’t want to be here after January. He should never wear the shirt again. Downing may well have had his nose put out of joint by AK making it clear he didn’t have faith in the returned Boro Old Faithful, but even after AK left, and although there were some improved performances from him, Downing must himself have felt disappointed by his general showing. De Roon may have more to him than we first saw evidence of, and he scored SOME goals, but his price seems to have been a gross over valuation. If he stays, he will improve and will be one of the top Championship players next term.
Goalkeeping: Where do we begin? Without wishing to be repetitive, when we were promoted we clearly had weaknesses which needed strengthening – we had been short of goalscoring threat even in the last two seasons in the Championship where we finished the losing play-off finalists and then automatically promoted. The defensive part of the team was a strength and it was up front we needed to acquire quality. So buying TWO goalkeepers was a “surprising” decision (if I might use a neutral word). Valdes struggled in the first two or three months then improved (which, bearing in mind his pedigree and the fortune in wages paid to him, is the least we could have expected), and more recently he has been injured. He never looked likely to control his box. He can make some saves which, after all, is what keepers are paid to do. He appeared to have “communication issues” with his defence. He has had sore ribs for some time. If there was an FA Cup Final or an international game in which he was expecting to play, he WOULD have been fit. A convenient diplomatic injury if someone doesn’t want to play. A lot more was expected of him – a poor return. Guzan? An embarrassment: three nutmegged goals against Chelsea and then in the next game against Southampton many of his team’s own supporters were encouraging the ref to send him off with a red card following his giving away a penalty. Maybe Dimi is past it and would have done no better, but we will never know as he wasn’t given the opportunity to appear in the Premier League after he had been a mainstay in the team which got us there. At least he had the confidence of the men in front of him. Difficult to fathom, and difficult to challenge if the goalkeeping plan had worked, but it did not.
Management: The management is always under scrutiny if a team struggles. But on the one hand there is a team cheaply assembled, giving it a go but falling short, but then regrouping with a view to making another challenge for promotion the next year, a la Burnley who kept their manager and many of their players. And on the other hand there is a fairly abject, whimpering, surrender (which more accurately described what we have witnessed this season, especially for the last 5 months). Karanka was probably very fortunate to have been persuaded to return to the club after his walkout before the Charlton game last year, and his position may have been mortally wounded at the time of that return, with relations poisoned between him and many in the changing room he felt had been disloyal and challenging to him. What we can say about Karanka is that he was overly negative, inflexible and uncommunicative. He criticised the club’s higher management, the transfer window activity and therefore the players brought in (such as Bamford) and the supporters, and you always know that when a manager rounds on the supporters, his time is almost up. Things were becoming rather toxic before Karanka left the club, and the situation could not be allowed to fester any longer – I suspect most agree the decision to part was taken far too late. Steve Agnew was handed the poisoned chalice when there was precious little time for any antidote he could find, to take effect. It was a hospital pass. Players say he is a good coach, but obviously that is different to being a manager, but what we do know is that he has the confidence of Steve Gibson, and that he cares deeply about the club (which might not be said about everybody who has been receiving wages from the club in the last year). Some players in the squad, and backroom staff, may have had sympathies with Karanka and none with Agnew. We will soon find out whether Steve Gibson’s confidence extends to a season managing in the Championship.
Recruitment: The infamous recruitment set-up……hardly a success. Too ridiculous for words. How much money have we thrown away? How many of the players brought in will go out for any serious money? If brought in, but not played, why were they brought in at all? Does it help if they speak Spanish? How can we employ a professional footballer who cannot even take a throw in? I don’t want to go on about it or I will sound obsessive.
Why have we seen so little of Fischer (when doubts were expressed about Downing), and Husband (when we had a full back crisis)? Was it thought that Gestede and Guedioura were Premier League players or was it hoped that they might be useful (in which case why pay so much) next season in the Championship – and for that matter if one eye was being cast over the possibility of relegation surely someone might have thought Nugent and Jordan Rhodes had the pedigree to contribute something there? What about de Pena? Is there some mystery to football club management that we, mere mortals, can never understand? Or is it really smoke and mirrors, the blind leading the blind and only the mega-rich billionaires able to fund anything remotely like Premier League success (the miracle of Leicester City being the staggering exception)?
The Chairman: Steve Gibson is the man at the top, where the Buck stops. He knows that. He must know why key decisions have been made, which promises have been given, and why things have gone wrong. At least I hope he does because it will be much easier to remedy the situation if you at least know what the problem is. There is a very big decision to be made in the next few days which may well set the tone for what is to follow. Fingers crossed that he makes the right decision. He has put a lot of money into the club and I am sure he would like to see the club successful as much, if not more, than the rest of us do.
I don’t have all the answers but I do realise there are some questions shouting for attention. I do not expect to read in a few months time the results of a “deep and searching inquest” into the reasons things turned out as they did. I don’t expect to be told any secrets from deep within the boardroom. It might simply be a case that the club or its manager over-estimated the abilities of some of the players, that we underestimated the scale of the task in attempting to stay up in a league where the gap between that and the Championship is increasing, and that we were simply too passive rather than trying to seize those few chances we had to win other games (like Leicester City and Man Utd away, Stoke, Palace and Watford at home….). But I do hope that those IN the boardroom know what has happened, and that they have a plan to put it right, otherwise how do we avoid repetition in the future?
I wish Karanka all the best for the future. Initial anger has subsided. I am sure he would have wanted to be successful, even if he wasn’t able to deliver. I hope he can learn from what he knows went wrong. I hope Agnew will be successful whatever his future holds (actually, especially if he is still with the club…!). Most of all, I would like to enjoy the football next season, and will still dream of promotion again when the season begins, even if that means ANOTHER nervy Premier League season after that, when wins will almost certainly be much rarer again. At the end of the day, football is a pass-time, an entertainment. It is not life itself even if, when the results go badly, it can sour the weekend and can affect those who love us. If supporters are continually unhappy they will stay away. I am committed to attending again for ANOTHER three years. It would be nice to enjoy a promotion and more Premier League football within that 3 year time span. There is always hope…
This was originally a long comment on Redcar Red’s match report but I thought it would make an excellent midweek post to facilitate the continuation of the discussion – Werdermouth.
Boro’s tasks for this summer:
1. Bring in a manager and backroom staff who know what the Championship is all about and have a record of success. This needs to happen in the next fortnight. My pick, if we can get him, is Jokanovic.
2. Have him meet every player and get a firm answer on which want to stay and which want to go. Any that want to go should be allowed to for a reasonable fee.
3. Assess those that want to stay and work out which are fit for purpose and which aren’t. Be honest with those who aren’t and inform them they will be moved on.
4. Concurrently, start the recruitment process with the aim of assembling a quality, balanced squad clearly capable of winning promotion. I would urge against wholesale changes if that can be avoided, to avoid a lengthy settling-in period. The bulk of the new recruits should be, like their manager, players with Championship know-how.
5. Erm, release a decent shirt??
Agree completely with this.
Forever Dormo
An excellent balanced appraisal of a disaster of a season which has left us in a bloody mess.
Andy R
An excellent action plan to address the situation. Now can SG and MFC deliver? If not we could be facing a long period again outside the EPL.
CoB get your act together!
Woe Woe and thrice Woe
Always look on the bright side
We have a great Chairman who we see and doesn’t live in China America or any other overseas country wanting to have a football club as a toy. He is a true Boro supporter and in the words of others “is one of us”
We also have great supporters both home and away who really get behind their team and make sure we start every game on a high.
We have a superb ground and world class training facilities which helps to attract the best players when they are comparing clubs to sign for.
We also have some financial clout this season and even if we do have to pay over the odds to attract players so what let’s get them in and use them to our advantage.
We still have the nucleus of a good championship side within our ranks and with a good head coach we can get them working again tons good formation which is defensively good whilst scoring goals
Who is there to fear in the championship? The Boro are a match for anyone this season. There is no Brighton or Newcastle to play catch up to amd I expect us to obtain at least a position in the playoffs but would not be surprised if we went up automatically.
So Go Go and thrice Go
I had forgotten to mention the supporters in my post, OFB, especially the away support which is Champions League class. But I am a slow typist and, well, getting forgetful……
No problem it was an excellent post which turned into one of our best leader boards of the season
At least we here on Diasboro can say we’ve had a brilliant season rising from the ashes to become what we are “a true Boro supporters Forum “
Jokanovic and Monk on the short list for the mangers job according to twitter
Let’s hope so. Those two are far more reasonable and understandable choices than a lot of the other names previously touted.
Jokanovic signed new contract
Forever
Top post, you could certainly get a fan board member from this blog.
OFB
I admire your optimistic outlook which is good in that it counters my more negative view.
You point out many of the positives, great chairman/supporters, superb ground and excellent training facilities coupled with financial clout. I can counter that by saying that the majority, if not all of these, were in place last season but look where we ended up.
I agree that we have a nucleus of a good championship side but if we see the departure of Gibson, Chambers, Negredo, De Roon, Fischer then I think we are much weakened and finding and integrating replacements will not be an easy task.
Too many changes could be our undoing, that’s why I have been banging on about the need for SG to do his up most to keep our better players if he possibly can. I accept that the lure of the EPL, higher wages and international considerations will not be easy to overcome but he needs to use all his business and personal acumen to positive effect if he is to achieve his and our desire next season.
The coming days and weeks will reveal how successful he has been.
On the new manager front I would be happy with Monk but fear he will stay at Leeds. I am not sure about Jokanovic and whether he is willing/wants to leave Fulham. He may feel he has unfinished business given their play off defeat.
Is Moyes now in the frame?
Brilliant piece Dormo, thanks for that and the continued talking points, opinions and speculation.
I just cannot see Monk leaving Leeds, unless there is an undercurrent not known about with the (prospective) owners.
Jokanovic has done well with limited resources and will probably stay if he gets a little more for transfers.
London is also a big pull which is why Kalas wants to stay there. He has his home, friends, first team place. Of course he was only on lone, if somebody puts an offer in Chelsea will accept it I am sure.
News this morning says Wagner and Jokanovic signed new contracts but Monk is still in the frame and Agnew!!?
Please not Agnew. He has shown nothing during his time in charge that would remotely indicate that he could hack it in the Championship and his appointment would show a very depressing lack of ambition.
No stomach for posting today. But I do want to acknowledge Dormo’s typically measured, thoughtful and unhysterical piece. It’s one of the top posts of the year.
I know how you feel Len radio and tv off can’t listen to the news especially when you have grandchildren that age who would go to these concerts
RIP
If Burnley were able to keep their most of their players when the got relagated, I am sure we can. We need a right manager to convince the players.
And there are not that many suitors after the few months wr had!
And thanks to Dormo. I was always hoping you would do a main story on here. Privileged to know you and your wife in person.
Up the Boro!
Very kind of you, Jarkko (and others like Len and OFB and Werder above). Keep flying the Boro flag in Finland!
Incidentally, lots of rumours that the Pickled Parrot is about to change hands. Current owners a bit skimpy on the amount of coal put on the fire there (and I mean BEFORE the weather started to warm up). Beer still OK though!
Finally, none of what I have said comes from “insider sources”. People are being very proper and tactful in comments made. We live in the days of social media and I suppose if someone working for the club said something private or damning about a player, it would be all over the media – “XX told me in the pub/golf course that…….”.
They lost Ings and Trippier, the only two Premiership quality players they had at the time.
Interesting article on team talk cut and pasted below. Werder, can I do that?
”Middlesbrough are considering three names as their new boss, but look unlikely to pursue top targets Slavisa Jokanovic and David Wagner, TEAMtalk understands.
We have been told that the duo were identified as Boro’s top targets as early as January by their departed head of recruitment Victor Orta. The Spaniard had recommended both Fulham manager Jokanovic and Wagner of Huddersfield to chairman Steve Gibson as the men best placed to replaced the then-under-fire Aitor Karanka.
Since then Jokanovic, who led Fulham to the play-offs, has signed a new deal at Craven Cottage – whilst Wagner is in the play-off final with Huddersfield.
It now remains to be seen if either will again be on Boro’s radar – but TEAMtalk can reveal that the club have been sounding out a host of candidates.
Leeds’ Garry Monk is on their shortlist – but they have also looked at Preston’s Simon Grayson. Ryan Giggs was considered but the deal was not progressed after talks.
Former Boro captain Nigel Pearson remains a candidate too, as does current interim incumbent Steve Agnew, who was given the chance to try and save the club from the relegation but was unable to do so.”
So Orta was supposedly looking at replacements in January – intrigue (or infamy, infamy, they have all got it infamy utters AK)
Elsewhere talk is that Gary Monk is inclined to finish the job at Leeds.
As I posted yesterday, other managers views of Boro may not match ours.
A Vic #daftquid on Aggers may be worth a punt.
Not my preferred option, could be a case of last man standing plus time pressures.
Forever Dormo, An excellent summing up of a disaster of a season. There is a lot of food for thought in the post and it makes you realise the size of the task facing the club and chairman in particular. I know that Negredo has gone back to Valencia but what of the efforts to keep a man, and his family, who like the area?
I concur with the surprise expressed at the signing of two goalkeepers when ‘creativity’ was needed at the other end. Bizarre to put it mildly. The there is Ramariz, underworked, underperforming, and obviously overpaid. Just what happens there? Cancel his contract? Or just keep paying him? What a poxy signing and nobody read any of the character and attitude runes. Looking back the whole club seems to have been operating at different isolated levels and/or comfort zones.
The new manager? Well as soon as possible please before the players are off to all points of the exotic holiday compass.
KP in Spain, you cannot be serious. Is it April 1st?
UTB,
John
Is the hold up on the manager, are people are turning down, the provisions set out by the chairman,
In other words less power or no real power?
Maybe that’s why we always get someone with very little experience.
And by the way what has Monk achieved, not looking good.
All of our deliberations are put in to perspective by events in Manchester.
The two keepers arriving are red herrings and nothing to do with lack of attackers. Ripley and Meijas were going out on loan but in the end Meijas stayed. It wasn’t deliberate. We can debate the quality of who came through the door.
Similar comments were made about why bring in defenders, players left and were replaced.
Please not Agnew.
In order to bounce back immediately you either need
a) A sense of injustice and entitlement that the Championship is not your level (Newcastle)
b) A belief in the way you play, the management of the club, and the longevity of the plan (Burnley)
c) A clean sweep to re-energise the club and the players who remain
Agnew is not a clean broom. If Agnew got the job I’m sure he’d tell us all how fantastic the squad are, that they’re full of confidence, and that they’re going to give it a real good go next season. No, he hasn’t spoken to the players yet, this is just what he feels. No, he doesn’t know who will stay or go, but that’s ok, because those that want to stay can stay, and those who want to go can go. And those who want to stay, whoever they are, well, they’re fantastic, and they have a really good spirit and care about the club, and they’ll work twice as hard as last season to get us back to the Premier league. What about Downing? Well, he offers a lot to the club, he’s a local lad, and he is a fantastic crosser of the ball and sees passes that some of his team mates don’t, so he’s a real asset and will continue to be so. Repeat ad infinitum.
That is what Agnew will give you. A nice guy, we’ll keep working hard type who is too close to the fire to see how far it’s spread. What we need is someone coming from right outside, who can look anew and assess the scale of the problems and decide who does what. A brand new coaching team, recruitment team and management team (that includes Bausor!). We’ve got a short summer to get those people in place so that we hit pre-season running and don’t waste too much of the summer not knowing who our transfer targets will be.
Smoggy,
Good post. It’s exactly what will be spun if it’s Agnew. I’d even go for “We need to build the team around Stewey’s fantastic qualities. ”
The Stewey perplex will need to faced up to, whoever is appointed. And it will be tricky. The reason? I suspect that Steve Gibson still has a lot of time for him and wouldn’t object to him remaining centre-stage.
For me the opposite applies. I don’t see us making any progress unless and until Downing is firmly told to pack his bags. I see it as the first and most essential action in draining the swamp. Is a new manager likely to do this? Would a manager who suggested that this might be a possibility ever be appointed? How long would it take a new man to get his feet under the table and discover that this is a necessary course of action? A couple of months? By Christmas? By then the automatic promotion train may already have left the station.
I think that will form the basis of the intriguing script that is likely to unfold over the next few months
Len
The frightening thing is, with oblivion staring them in the face well before December, they did nothing.
As discussed on this blog, there were, oh, I don’t know, six things they could have done.
They chose to do nothing, no, that’s not true, they somehow, I do not know how, kept it from all the people who would have undoubtedly shouted it from the housetops.
And that’s just a long winded way of saying, I cannot see them sweeping the board clean with all the dirty washing which would be exposed to he public gaze.
And I still cannot believe it.
Still can’t believe it Mr Meldrew?
Goalkeeping:
I’m still bitter about this, but probably not as bitter as Dimi. I think it is an absolute disgrace that after so many clean sheets he was replaced by not one but two keepers. Neither of which I rated at the start of the season, and neither of which I rate at the end. Valdes gave away a few points at the start of the season with non-existent command of the box, and there is little to be said about Brad, other than he made Andy Dibble look good.
Next season I would like to see Ripley given a chance, with Dimi given a year’s extension to back him up. If we go up I would retain Dimi on a pay as you play, and give him a match in the Premiership. It is the least he deserves.
Bye bye Mejias, please. Already gone, the clown Guzan and they can take Valdes with me for all I care. If we do need to recruit, instead of giving Ripley a chance, Hennessey would be my choice.
Defence:
We can see from the collapse once AK left, without the added benefit of more goals scored, that Agnew is not the answer. Certainly not the answer to any question about who should be running our football club.
My view is that at the start of the season, which is reinforced by the way they have played, that a back four of Fabio, Chambers, Gibson and Friend would have been a decent* back four in the Premiership. It is highly unlikely that we will see that back four again. I doubt we can keep Gibson, and as long as he goes to a top 7 side [which finished 15 points clear of the rest] then I will be happy for him. I doubt Chambers will come back, would that we had stayed up we might have been able to convince him to join us. *Chambers and Gibson are the quality in that back four, the other two are merely okay at this level, but good enough for a top six Championship side.
I think that Espinosa is rubbish, Ayala is looking like an injury prone spent force, Husband didn’t cover himself in glory, Barragan is rubbish and Fry is still young, but would get my blessing for a squad place next season.
Bye bye Baptiste. If we need to rebuild, and it looks like we do then Pontus Jansson would be my first choice, as he was only on loan at Leeds. I’d ask Chambers if he is interested in coming back, but not waste the whole summer chasing him. Give him a deadline of a weekend to think about it, then move on. Too often we have wasted weeks or months chasing people who would not join us. Charlie Taylor, also at Leeds, would be a good option at RB. Sessegnon is probably going to a bigger club.
Midfield:
All of them did what they were bought to do more or less. None of the four, Clayton, De Roon, Leadbitter or Forshaw are capable of being the visionary, creative midfielder, although we have seen that De Roon is capable of pushing forward and scoring.
I would let Forshaw and Leadbitter go, unless De Roon leaves. If we can keep de Roon I would make him, Clayton, De Sart and A N Other signing the four CMs in the squad.
Bye bye Guedioura. What was he bought for?
Attack:
The area that we struggled with in the Championship, and for me it was never to do with who the striker was. Negredo is a very good player and I reckon he would have doubled his goals tally by playing for one of the top seven. But the lack of connection between our midfield and the three behind the striker and the striker himself has never been fixed. The three behind were the one area that serious money should have been spent. £12m on De Roon was all well and good, but we needed that £12m spent on a winger who could cross, assist, shoot and score goals. For me, the failure to fix the three behind the striker is the reason we have been relegated.
Who would I keep from the current squad? In all honesty I would replace them all. But if that is notpossible then Downing would be out, along with Ramirez and Stuani. I don’t rate Traore at all, but people quite rightly point out his abilities as a dribbler, and that if he could be taught to look up, to pass and shoot effectively he could be a useful player in the Championship. I’d keep Fischer
Bamford is a particular favourite of mine and I expect him to play and score a lot of goals for us. Negredo is gone, and he did a reasonable job, under difficult circumstances. I don’t rate Gestede and would replace him. My favourite to play alongside Bamford would be Tammy Abraham, if we can get him.
Bye bye De Pena, hopefully.
Hello Chapman, at least in the squad.
Management:
Then thing I can’t understand about the last few years, is the purchase of players who were never given a chance. If that is down to Gibson or a committee buying players the manager didn’t rate then it needs to stop. The buck must stop with the manager when it comes to buying players.
My pick for several months now has been Garry Monk. But whoever we get needs to come in quickly and to get to work on recruitment, and pruning the squad to his own choice as quickly as possible. I think Monk did a very good job with Leeds this season, and a more than decent fist of it with Swansea.
Recruitment:
Absolutely woeful. I think most fans could have done better last summer.
Teapot
A well reasoned response which makes sense
If only our management could have seen this happening
It cried out for someone with diplomacy and experience to be the bridge between the coach the players and the executives
Leeds are gong to invoke Monks 12 month option
I understand Leeds are just waiting for the takeover to be signed off before Monk signs a new contract so that looks like a non starter.
Other potential managers have signed contracts so the choice is fewer and fewer.
I can see this dragging out all summer til the start of the season and we end up with no one like we did with players in the January transfer window and will end up making do with Agnew
Talk of Traore going out on loan to Real Betis in La Liga, Levante also interested.
At least two more strikers on top of what we have,should be signed,you can’t have enough,we need to find a combination that works if one is off his game ,another one in,you can’t drop off, keep the pressure on.
If Aguero can be benched anyone can.
nevergiveup
I suspect we wont have to wait that long, if we don’t have a new manager in place or close after the championship play off game it would appear to be Agnew moving in to pole position.
We may well be in a situation where the new manager gets Agnew, Woodie et al in any case.
Whatever the situation it is unfair to leave everyone hanging. Go away on holiday and we will tell you later if you need to bother coming back. You cant run a business like that can you? There again…….
We are being linked with players already albeit at project level, we cant afford to sit on our hands.
#daftquid agnew.
Feeling particularly downbeat at the thought of Agnew, Woodgate and co being chosen to ” smash ” the Championship. Please Gibbo, there must be somebody out there who could fire up our enthusiasm.
‘Big’ Sam Allerdyce leaving Crystal Palace! Daft quid???
Some great and thought-provoking posts. Worried by still hearing the argument that we can just decide to keep people who want to leave – please guys, think about what keeping Ramirez did for us.
Here is my opinion of defensive areas based on the assumed departures I mentioned previously.
Keeper:
The absolute priority. We have to bring in a new, highly capable first-choice keeper.
Ripley – untested at this level, let’s develop him by getting him on loan at a League One or Championship club.
Squad player: Dimi – veteran 38 years old, are his reactions still quick enough for first choice? But deserves a new contract as back up.
Defence:
We need significant strengthening in defence – a new first-choice right back and centre back are the absolute minimum.
First team: Dani*, George*, Fabio
Squad players: Fry, Espinosa, Barragan, Husband, Baptiste**
(*Dani has a chronic ankle problem. George will hopefully finally recover from the calf issue over the summer, or it could go again first game. We are thinner on the ground with dominant players than we look.)
Defensive Midfield:
Not so worrying, assuming this is just two positions to fill, and that Adam C does not get an offer from the Prem. But we need a De Roon type figure, with energy, goal threat and aerial power to add to the mix.
First team: Clayton, Forshaw
Squad: Leadbitter – veteran, De Sart**
Notes:
There may be youngsters ready to take a place in the squad.
The new manager may want to play a different system – such as wing backs – and that might influence priorities.
**Depending on scouting reports of their loans.
I disagree about the need for a keeper, Ripley has done enough to warrant a chance for me. Good reviews from Scotland and Oldham.
Kalas and Jansson, if we need to strengthen, but I also disagree about keeping Espinosa and Barragan, they’re both rubbish.
Defensive midfield – we might keep De Roon, in which case we don’t need to strengthen this area at all in my opinion.
Once again, it is the attack that is most important, and that has not been as good as it could have been in the last 3.5 years.
Don’t get me wrong, I would absolutely love it if Ben, Martin and Alvaro suddenly announced that they love the club, the area and the supporters so much that they would like to stay. I even believe that they do love those things.
And if they stayed I would then accept the argument that we have the core of a promotion team (except for the goalkeeping position).
But they have careers, families and in Ben and Martin’s case, international ambitions. I just don’t see them in whatever ridiculous shirt the powers-that-be have lined up for next season.
Mark W
Allardyce available?? Sky reporting he is leaving Palace.
I cannot even see Allardyce and Gibson sharing a same room. So different in ethics that I cannot see it even be discussed.
Up the Boro!
It would now appear that clubs of the managers we covet have pre-empted our approach for them. I wonder, have we got delusions of grandeur?
Apart from Sheffield Wednesday, the Chairmen of the other clubs who reached the play-offs, I imagine, must be delighted at their progress and won’t want to lose their managers. After all, their aim would have been to reach the play-offs but taking into consideration their League position in the previous season, clubs such as Norwich, Villa and Derby maybe would probably have been among the favourites after Newcastle and Brighton. Therefore they have protected their interests.
Also these managers probably think they work for a club with better prospects of future promotion than Boro. After all the football we have played has been so unattractive, that they may feel that our players have now become so stereotyped that a major overhaul may be required.
I now feel that we appear to be in a similar position as when we appointed Southgate, and we will have to make an appointment from current unemployed managers such as Nigel Pearson or David Moyes. Failing that I fear we might be stuck with Steve Agnew.
Have just heard about Allerdyce leaving Palace. I would guess Sunderland made an approach before sacking Moyes as it seems a coincidence that these two events have occurred within 24 hours of each other.
I see Downing again today praising Agnew. We all know why . Under a new manager Downing would be lucky to get a game.
In line with all the overviews on the blog, the following
If it is possible, amid the tangle of errors, omissions, and general mayhem which surround the club at this time, no, no list of the failures of the will, which have landed us in this painful situation, enough already.
But consider the following thought piece,
In both close promotion battles, we were curst by no shows. They were produced at random, but there was no mistaking them, they were on display for all to see. The pattern was always the same, get the game lost quickly which means early, which means two goals conceded, and then the cruise to full time without further trouble.
I believe that we have suffered from this for far longer than the reign of Ak .
And I believe it has it’s roots in our luxurious training centre. If you collect average players who have scuffed their way around the leagues, then maybe it is not in their interest to go up a league, that can lead to being moved on, and that can lead to some scruffy little club with very bad facilities, and bad salaries.
Just a thought.
My worry Teapot is that as you know, as you go up in the leagues you meet with teams and players who can do things quicker and better. You have opponents who can get off shots and headers more often, from more angles and with more venom than in the lower leagues. They are more capable of going round keepers or nutmegging them. They can whip in more crosses with wicked curl away from keepers, etc…
Are we sure Ripley is ready for that? If our backroom staff know that he is, that’s great and no-one would be more delighted about it than me, as he’s one of our own.
When we started with Tomas Meijas in goal three years ago, we dropped points that cost us automatic promotion before he had to be replaced. I’m worried about taking that sort of risk.
But I totally agree with you about the attack, and I agree that Barragan and Espinosa struggle with pace, but they could be useful squad players given that we can’t replace everyone.
Mark W
Manchester
We are now into the period when the pictures and backstories of those who have died start appearing in the media. For me this is the saddest time, when we realise how much has been lost, what these youngsters could have become, and we get at least some sense of how much pain their families and friends must be in.
Mark W
Boronurk
The events in Manchester are very sad and depressing. As the people in Manchester showed we must acknowledge what took place but carry on.
As for ourselves at MFC the situation re manager is no clearer resolution.
When you look at the goalkeeping situation then Connor Ripley had a stellar season at Oldham, near the bottom but with a -13 goal difference. He had a season at Motherwell the season before, 95 appearances in two seasons.
If he isn’t ready yet he never will be unless you want him to have appeared for Chelsea and conceded 20 goals a season. Play him and be damned, he cant be worse than Guzan and Meijas as well as being cheaper.
Definitely no worse than Guzan or Mejias and I would reckon on him being as agile as Valdes. The only difference then is perhaps his positional awareness, command of his box and dealing with crosses. Benchmarking those three virtues versus Valdes and only his positional awareness may be weaker.
I would give Dimi an extension, lets face it he was never brought in by Mogga to be No.1 so nothings changed? He is happy and settled in the area doesn’t create a fuss, has business interests in the Boro as well as a local lass for a Wife. I would sign one other who can compete and may win the shirt but with the intention of starting with Ripley and make it his to lose.
Ian
I agree.
I was championing Ripley’s cause as we entered the 2016/7 season.
As you say, if he isn’t ready now, he never will be.
Struggled at times today after the events in Manchester, felt it better not to post or say anything that was inappropriate, I’ve had to retype this sentence at least ten times.
Anyway brilliant post (and now blog) from Forever as well as the follow up posts which I only hope SG reads with an open mind and considers the well meaning and constructive intent the like of which he was entitled to expect from his employees these last 12 months or so but who failed him massively.
Allardyce and Moyes is an interesting development, Moyes wasn’t a surprise as the club is in a mess and there is little he can do with the hand he has been dealt. this is the Manager who done well with Preston and great with Everton to the point where Sralex no less saw him as his natural replacement. Has he suddenly become clueless and unable to manage?
There is definitely something going on with Allardyce and I doubt its Sunderland. Why on earth would he go back there when he is in the Premiership with a far better squad of players? If he returns to the Black cats he must have received some incredible incentive (not entirely untypical of the man) which I would guess is unlikely. He is hinting at retirement but I find that a strange choice if true or maybe more likely a lucrative MLS or Chinese offer.
Would he take the reins at the Riverside? For the same reasons I would question why he would want to drop down a division but perhaps he fancies joining the exclusive club of having managed all three NE sides? Money to spend perhaps and mould in his own image (agggh!), loyal Chairman, good Stadium and Training facilities. Unlikely, but despite the inevitable baggage he could definitely deliver promotion and more importantly keep a newly promoted lower ability team in the Premiership.
Sam is actually retiring, at 62 you cant blame him if he has the resources behind him. I hope it works out for him, life has a habit of kicking you in the teeth, it did for my mum and dad.
Anyway, it makes the market more interesting but it is getting boring now.
Downing says we cant carry passengers, I am sure we all agree. Cough!
It seems like the completion of takeover at Leeds will result in Leeds triggering a one year contract extension for Garry Monk.
Silva may be off to Porto. Jokanovic may be back in the betting.
#daftquidAggers.
Allardyce has said he has no ambitions to take another job. He certainly won’t need to work, and maybe he thinks that he can’t take Crystal Palace any further. It might be different if a big club comes in for him, but I can’t see him wanting to fiddle about in the Championship or the bottom 13 places in the Premiership.
If Agnew is our manager next season, and Downing one of our main players, I will absolutely despair, and I loved Stewey in his first spell.
Teapot
Tesco are doing 25% off six bottles of wine at the moment. Other offers will be available for different supermarkets now or in the future. I hope that helps.
All be revealed soon or later along with Joseph’s techni designed shirt. There is a delay on the shirt because due to funding difficulties there are not enough crayons at reception classes in Teesside. The good news is Adidas might be able to provide exclusive kits from Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASV_Neumarkt
Otherwise they will not use Ladgate Primary School but rely on footballers from MFC, Gaston has offered to help.
#daftquidAggers
How very dare you, I only shop in Waitrose, and I also buy wine from lovely independent Latitude.
#soverymiddleclass
Ian
I admire your consistency but would suggest you up your stake as the competition is falling by the wayside and aggers is beginning to look a cert! 😎
Unfortunately it does look like aggers surely not !!
Teapot
Sadly the closest Waitrose is 15 miles away, Tesco is 5 minutes walk unless the wine offers are on then it is back seats down and wine carriers.
I live in North Leeds, and my Waitrose is a 10 minute walk away.
And Bamford says the players want Agnew in charge.
Having read the article in the Echo this morning where Downing has said: “The manager has done ever so well with the stuff he’s had to deal with. The fans don’t see that, but there’s been a lot of issues that needed addressing.”
He claimed Agnew has had to deal with quite a few problems – including ‘some players’ (some infers more than one or two) who didn’t want to be at the club and having to play in a style he didn’t really want to.
Downing declared: “We all have to come together, the staff, the players, and we will have a great chance and I know all the lads want to play for Aggers.”
This sounds to me like a high probability that Steve Agnew may well start next season in charge and Downing appears to be preparing for life with Boro in the Championship.
The other issue is that our season was seemingly derailed by players who didn’t want to be at the club – how many? Other than Ramirez and Valdes who seem to have been outed, we could probably guess but perhaps those who are quickly ushered out the door will maybe answer that question.
Let’s see player’s who didn’t want to be up for the fight, v Agnews accolites.
What a mess?
Neither deserve our support,
Steve Gibson should get rid of the backroom lawyers,no matter who they are ,
It’s important he brings in a manager with gravitas, crack the whip!
Whenever a team goes in to a tailspin there are those who want to jump ship. You would guess it could be players whose seasons have been resurrected after injury and poor spells elsewhere.
Throw in barrack room lawyers and it would be a potent mix.
#tendaftquidAggers
If the club has descended into the farce of having to pick sides then SG has a very simple management solution and that is to remove both elements so that the club can breathe again.
Once you let cliques get established it is very difficult to break their influence and domination be it in an office or changing room. If the “Karankites” leave or are pushed out and the “Remoaners” win then they will assume control and influence which in time will fester and ostracise others because Player “A” doesn’t like your attitude and if Player “A” doesn’t like you neither will Players “C”, “D”, “L” or “G” and if they don’t like you neither will the Coach/es.
Of course a good Manager/Director doesn’t allow cliques to develop in the first place, stepping in and nipping them in the bud and not recruiting peers who are obviously a clique in the making.
Absolute amateurish shambles by the sound of things and yet when all this was going on all we were reading was Premium Propaganda.
Well I wasn’t reading the premium stuff other than yours Werders and Simons et all
So what was Bausor doing whilst this shambles was going on?
Didn’t he know how to solve it or report back to Gibson
Shocking Executive Mismanagement
The Gazette reporters usage of English is getting worse. We even have AV starting sentences with “And”. Every schoolboy studying GCE English knows one must not start a sentence with either a conjunction or a preposition.
We bloggers can be forgiven if our English is not perfect, but surely not professional journalists.
And onto our next item on the agenda!
‘Grammatical Extremism Executes Creative Commonsense!’
Followed by
‘Ultra Sensitive Appauled By Hysterical Headlines!’
And so it goes on and on and on!
Just sayin like
Ornwhat a lot of journos write
Critical
Review
And
Posturing
I’m afraid that it gets worse the more these fools open their mouths.
The infighting is now established as a fact, quite unashamed, and nonetheless shocking for all that.
The old Saw of “the no show” is proving to be true, with a twist.
This no show was of season long duration.
I agree. Why do some of them say “yer know” repeatedly especially in the middle of sentences?
‘Yer know, like!’
Tis a phrase that is used to elicit agreement and consensus from amongst the listening audience. Thus, allowing for interjection if by chance someone has an alternative opinion, like.
🙂
Downing says that the team cannot carry passengers. That the players will have to scrap for everything next season. Puts himself at the centre of “dedicated nucleus” of players who can take the team forward.
We are through the looking glass folks. Having successfully challenged the authority of his manager, this consistent under-performer, who has never knowingly won a 50-50 challenge, but, ever since he arrived from West Ham, has had an inflated sense of his own entitlement, now evidently has the confidence to say who should stay and who should go, and plot the future of the club which has paid him royally for his poor efforts.
He has been at the centre of the disruptions within the club, and I see no prospect of
the current chaos being resolved until someone grasps the nettle of finally delivering him of his illusions.
Totally agree Len.
It’s like an episode of In The Thick of It (or the current Labour party…). Briefings and Counter-briefings to the media, players queuing up to put their finger on the problems and put themselves forward as the man/men to solve it.
Downing, Woodgate and Aggers. I despair. Get rid of all three and start again. If we have them on board I can’t wait for AV having to perform the journalistic gymnastics of explaining how being in 15th place is a great achievement for Aggers and that we are strongly positioned for a late play off push.
Sigh.
And their I was thunkin it was the Tories not Labour.
Tsk, eh! What do I know!
If we have them on board then 15th place would be a miracle.
All this finger pointing, talk of cliques, naughty stepping, toys out of prams mask certain issues.
The players were not quick enough, strong enough, clever enough or skilful enough. The management was not good enough at all levels. The coaching wasn’t good enough.
Apart from that thank you for the money
I was going to start the final sentence with an ‘and’ but decided not to so but the shirt was awful.
The shirt, the shirt. John goes into darkened room. Again.
UTB,
John
Ian
Glad you didn’t forget “that shirt”, its symbolism ran far deeper than we could have ever possibly imagined!
Ian
I commend you on your admirable restraint.
Ian
How would we know?
I have a natural and unsubstantiated dislike of Sam Allardyce, I don’t know why and I am probably being unfair to the man, but the club needs a manager like him who takes no crap from players and can sort this mess out. The kind of personality that makes the players think, oh bugger, when he arrives at the club.
This, ‘we think SA is the man for the job really worries me’. Why do they, the players, think that? Because they can run him?
Heads need to be metaphorically banged together, ultimatums given to the barrack room lawyers and an analysis of assets started to sort the mess out and let people know where they stand or should be standing or even where they are going.
Please not Steve Agnew.
UTB,
John
Enter Nigel Pearson?
NO!!!!!!!!
Redcar Red
Sorry I mentioned the ghastly gastric garment.
According to reports Pearson is on a short list of 3 being considered by MFC, please, please don’t let one of the other two be Agnew.
Come on BORO.
If Gibson is thinking of giving in to player power and appointing Agnew, he has truly lost the plot.
When has player power, except in moments of extreme adversity, ever produced results? Our pampered lot will be safe in the knowledge that Dear Uncle Steve is in charge, and all is nice and rosy, and they can have a nice kickabout on the Saturday and see what happens.
Employ Agnew, accept midtable mediocrity.
If exmil’s reported rumour is right and Pearson and Aggers are on the short list of three (neither would make my long-list of the top dozen targets), then give us strength.
Who is the third candidate likely to be? Ben Bradley?
Jokanovic ?
And someone (no names mentioned) suggested it was a ‘shambles’ at MFC and if I remember rightly, was derided.
The man ultimately responsible?
Step forward Mr Steve ‘hands free’ Gibson.
How far the mighty fall!
If he does appoint Agnew, SG is going to have to do another BBC Tees exclusive to convince us all of his rationale. As I keep on saying, the words “we want to smash the Championship” are going to haunt him.
Are we all wrong? Does SG know better?
We wait with baited breath.
Len, you couldn’t be more right. I deeply resent the signs of Downing assuming the mantle of Mr Boro. I haven’t forgotten that he himself did everything in his power to bail out when Southgate, and he club, needed him in 2009.
Allardyce, well, the moment I heard of his “retirement” I didn’t believe it one bit. Most of France’s “Golden Generation” were called back by Raymond Domenech for the World Cup in 2006 because of probable financial incentives. If the money is right for Big Sam he’ll be back, I’m sure of it.
Another thought. I agree with most of what SmoggyInExile said about bouncing back immediately. A sense of injustice helped fuel a Premier League return for Boro in 1998, for example. Entitlement, alas, is a double-edged sword.
Adapting the words of Andrew Glover (from his brilliant Ayresome Gates blog):
I’m not sure I want fans and players strolling into the Riverside believing, next season, that the Championship is beneath them. There will be lots of talk about scoring goals and remembering how to win again, no doubt. But if we go into every game with the entitlement to roll the opposition over we run the risk of coming a cropper.
There may even come a time, as in late 2010, where the opposition don’t fear us because we offer nothing to fear. To quote Glover on a 1-0 home defeat to Millwall back then:
“The team was… outfought by opposition who stuck to a solid game plan and were prepared to put the hard yards in for each other. Several are still gliding around the pitch believing in their own reputations and past glories. I wonder if they look at the league table as often as supporters do.
“…To get any run of consistency going… everyone connected with the club would do well do breath in a big sigh of realism. (The Championship) is a tough league and our recent history entitles us to nothing.
“Players and fans need to give this division the respect it deserves and treat every game like a cup final. (Then we might) start to compete.”
Love the comment about Downing !
I find the whole Downing thing very puzzling. Here’s a thought though. For quite a while lots of people on here and elsewhere, were very critical of AK’s playing style – too defensive, no creativity, lack of ambition to win games, etc.
If, during that period, we’d known that there was a cabal of players who felt the same, what would we have expected them to do? To go along with it without questioning the tactics, or to try and influence a change?
For me, SD presumably arrived believing that his job was to be a creative midfielder who would allow the forward line to flourish and together the team would smash the Championship.He would soon find out that AK wasn’t reading from the same page. Not losing was the imperative, tracking back was the instruction.
Now, SD has come out with support for Agnew and I’ve no idea whether he just wants an easy life or genuinely believes they can achieve promotion under his guidance. I do know that in his time, SD has given some great performances in a Boro shirt (and probably many more even better ones wearing another teams colours) but can he still perform? I’ve no idea.
I also can’t help thinking that he’s moved clubs too many times for there not to be a flaw somewhere in his personality or attitude. There’s no doubt he’s always had talent, but often that isn’t enough at the top level.
Following up on my review of our defensive areas, this is my assessment of the attacking options – I’m sure everyone has been waiting with bated breath for it…
Attacking Midfield:
Total re-build, at least three/four players – a playmaker (or two), and two wide men with pace and guile.
First Team – zilch, zip, nada (Fischer to leave)
Squad players: Downing – veteran, Guedioura, Chapman
Strikers:
First Team: Patrick Bamford is there to give us goals, but we need to bring in at least one other goal-scorer, hopefully a guy with searing pace. (Or put Traore in there with absolutely no defensive responsibilities for him to botch, and see what happens?)
Squad players: Gestede is limited but has performed effectively at this level and would be useful as plan B or if the new manager wants to play with a target man as plan A. Will Stuani stay?
Ref. Traore
I and others had the same thought months ago.
If nothing else he would cause havoc amongst defenders as they swallowed handfuls of Diasipan – like!
I see that Marten de Roon is saying he wants to play for a top-flight club. Quel surprise! And that’s before the offers start coming in…
I accept it is always possible that if SG asks a player to stay, that player might agree, and might still perform well for us. But as Marten wants to be in the Dutch World Cup Squad, and if he gets an offer he really likes from a club who seem likely to do well, human nature tells us…
I doubt the Dutch will make the World Cup Finals.
I don’t like pointing fingers, especially not at Downing or AK, but they’ve been a big part of the problem. Downing reminds me of Friends (the sitcom) at the end… At the start, lively, inventive, seemingly full of ideas, committed to, and mostly succeeding in, making us happy. Now overhyped with an inflated sense of self-importance.
Steve Gibson ‘giving in to player power’? That strikes me as being highly unlikely, why would he?
If he appoints Agnew he’ll do it because he believes he’s the right man. Although, I think that is an unlikely appointment because ‘fan power’ is a genuine beast, rightly or wrongly.
I see Stewie Downing has become scapegoat in chief, bizarre.
Thanks, Spartak. I usually catch up with what the rest of you are saying after a few months, then regurgitate it in garbled form…it’s just what I do best…
Mark
Simon
Or the fifth member of the Question Time Panel, the celebrity or non party person to give a different view or perspective and at times is even more pompous and full of them selves than the party hacks.
Conclusion
I accept the views of the guys such as RR who’ve reassured us that Conor Ripley is up to the job, so let’s drop the idea of a dominant first-choice keeper and say that another squad keeper is all that is needed (unless the next manager mandates buying a new first choice).
So my essential shopping list is:
1x Right back (George level of ability / Fabio covers both full back positions or wins a shirt himself)
1x Centre half (Dani level / or ideally 2x if Ben leaves as well as Chambers)
1x Defensive midfield (Marten de Roon type characteristics / assumes De Roon leaves)
1x Playmaker (Ramirez level / assumes Ramirez leaves, Stewy is back-up)
2x Wide men (Albert level or better / assumes Fischer leaves)
1x High-pace striker (as near Patrick Bamford level of finisher as possible)
So that’s 7 or 8 new first team players and they need to be high quality at this level, with the ability or potential to perform in the Prem. Over to you, Gary!
Or in other words, I think we are in major rebuild territory.
Some of these depend on formation used by the next manager, will it be 4231 or 442 or another option
RB – I think Fabio is fine at Championship level. I’d like Kalas if possible though.
LB – not mentioned by you, but I’d throw some money towards Hull and Andrew Robertson to replace George.
CB – Pontus Jansson, Chambers [if he could be persuaded back on a permanent], Harry Maguire [I’m still laughing at all the people who were scoffing at us being linked with him last summer because he wasn’t good enough for us]. Marc Roberts.
Midfield– I’d get rid of Downing, he didn’t do it in the promotion season, he didn’t do it last year and he won’t pull up any trees next season. Aaron Mooy, John Swift, Tom Cairney, Conor Hourihane, Will Hughes, Massimo Luongo.
2 wingers – Jacob Murphy, Helder Costa, Tom Lawrence,
Striker – Tammy Abraham for me. Fernando Forestieri.
I agree about the major rebuild
When we got promoted, I would have splashed cash on Harry Maguire and Lewis Dunk, and that would have had three excellent CBs fighting it out for 2 positions. We “improved” our defence on the cheap. Espinosa, Barragan, cheap and rubbish. Fabio, cheap and okay. To the centre-backs I would have targeted Kalas and Kieran Trippier, who had a brilliant season with Burnley, but struggled to get a game with Spurs. Of course, one might say it is easy with hindsight, but I genuinely would have steered clear from cheap foreign imports for the most part.
Improving the front four, apart from Bamford [who I would definitely have brought back], I’d have been looking at attacking midfielders in Holland and the other low-countries. Speed, aggression, goals and assists is what we needed after promotion, and we barely had any of that.
Does anyone else have that slightly uneasy feeling that since SG’s interview after the Southampton game the hoped for or intended management target has failed to materialise and we are now straw grasping?
We seem to have gone through the entire gamut of obvious candidates and its now looking like Pearson or Aggers and Pearson has been available since Charltongate. Now of course if its the Tea lady or even the Lady who picks “that shirt” the Gazette (via both premium subscribers) will likely tell us that he/she was always first choice and that SG had never looked anywhere else.
I’m guessing well over 80% of fans would not want Aggers as manager, (if he stays on as continuity and assistant to the new manager then fine). Pearson could go one of two ways but both likely to be extremes, if its positive then great but recent history is a concern.
If we can prise Jokanovic from Fulham then I would guess that would be heralded as a popular appointment, the same but I suspect to a lesser extent goes for Wagner and Monk. My take on it is that its highly unlikely that we could prise any of them away at the moment and all the stories leaking out about the club being a basket case behind the scenes won’t be exactly helping!
If its to be Pearson then why not Mogga again? Noooooooooo I can hear Ian and others scream and I get it but his record in picking players is as good if not in fact better than any Boro Manager (leaving the surreal Juninho, Ravenelli era to one side). He had to dismantle a team of overpaid wasters many of whom he wanted rid of from his old club and had previously sold them to us. Without the shackles of being skint compared to having a few bob he may be able to make a far better fist of it this time around. I don’t think he is the answer we are looking for but if Pearson is being considered then I don’t think the risk is any lesser or greater.
For me I wouldn’t waste time with a manager with “potential” or who “might” or “could” or given the right resources “should”. We need a manager who “will” and that means probably an unpopular appointment. If Fat Sam could be persuaded I’d have him in a heartbeat. Can’t stand the guy, gives me the creeps and wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him but deep down I know that he would deliver and keep on delivering in the Premiership. Far rather throw my money at him knowing I would get what I want rather than throw it at a basket case or someone upcoming with “potential”.
Warnock falls into the same category, can’t stand him but I would have confidence in that he knows what he is doing and I would have never thought that I would have even remotely considered Warnock for Boro. Then there is Pardew, again a bit slimy and greasy with it but I’m confident that he would deliver and in all likelihood smash this league in doing so and no doubt annoying and irritating along the way.
For me Allardyce and Pardew are the only two that I believe would definitely deliver with Warnock a close third. None of them fit the perfect image of Boro that SG perhaps wants in the dug-out but I’d rather have success with ego’s than near misses, car crashes and popularity.
If only SG had invited applications for the post of Manager instead of trying to poach other clubs incumbents we would probably now know where we stand.
I do find this penchant for head-hunting and poaching a little arrogant. Why should we think that Boro are a bigger club than those from whom we are trying to prise away their managers? If all the current reports about the shambolic state of affairs we are now hearing about are true, and these rumours have reached the ears of prospective managers, is it any wonder that we are finding it difficult to interview let appoint anyone?
As soon as Karanka left SG should have started the process of advertising the post before all these stories and innuendo occurred. I agree with Redcar Red that it appears we will not now be able to appoint from a position of strength.
It is now too late to advertise the post and we are left with a choice of unemployed managers most of whom have been sacked by their previous clubs.
In my opinion I would consider David Moyes who did good work at both Preston and Everton, even though he has not got the knowledge of the Championship, but neither had Karanka before his appointment.
I think we not only need a manager to get us promoted, but one to keep us in the Premier League when that has been achieved. Discounting his tenure at Sunderland which was a poisoned chalice, I think David Moyes could be the man to do that.
Nigel
I don’t think it is fan power, just Stewie or just AK, player power etc. It is never one person’s fault.
The club was relegated because they were not good enough, Stewie may be right about some or all of what he is saying. What we cannot escape is that once those things were addressed, if players were quarantined, the ‘healthy’ majority were not good enough.
As posted before we got a dull thud and no bounce.
The problem for Boro is that there are not many (and the list, if there is one, is getting shorter) successful Championship Coaches available right now. Most of the fancied ones, on here at least, are either tied up or have had their contracts extended.
Obviously we could afford to buy out someone’s contract and that would be small beer if we spend the money SG is talking about to “Smash the Championship”
Others fancied are out of work of course and include Pearson, Pardew and now we have the players favourite Steve Agnew.
As others have pointed out above, If Mr Gibson sticks with SA then the lunatics will be running the asylum.
It is not an easy choice finding someone who could be successful. May be Kenyon has another Aitor or Wagner lined up. But if SG does not make the correct choice and soon, then I think that he will get a lot more stick than he got in the past with his previous bad picks.
AND ‘Dark clouds are gathering over the Riverside Stadium’.
“Are you an osterich, AV?’
Makes AK almost saintly.
Head in seal sands?
In off the bum.
‘Lurker’ Gill strikes again!
Spartak
GHW was the key lurker, I am just filling in during his sabbatical.
The Gazette are suggesting Dimi is getting a new 1-year deal. Fighting Ripley for the No 1 shirt.
I think whilst Downing has had his detractors and he’s not been the catalyst many had hoped he would be, there still seems to be something of an untold story lurking in the background about why this season ended with only one win in five months.
George Friend has spoken how he’s been unhappy about certain things but didn’t want to go into details – Club captain Leadbitter has talked about the unrest caused by new recruits on both the playing and coaching side during the summer and strongly hinted the coaching staff were unable to explain what they were asking from the players and even didn’t bother to acquaint themselves to him until he arrived back in training with the full squad following his injury. Also Ben Gibson has talked about his frustration at the one-dimensional tactics and seemingly being asked to defend for 90 minutes.
It was also confirmed in the Gazette that Leo was no longer on speaking terms with Karanka for most of this year and other players didn’t want to be at the club. Plus a different interpretation of events regarding January transfers from Karanka and the recruitment team – they say sanctioned by him he apparently wasn’t too interested in them.
Interesting that ‘the lads’ appear to be backing Agnew – I won’t criticise Agnew for doing what he has been asked to do and we’ve heard nothing but diplomacy from his words to everyone from the Chairman, Karanka, the players including Gaston and about the supporters too – surely an example to many others who’ve ‘graced’ the club this season.
But who are ‘the lads’ – perhaps there are some at the club who kept themselves on the periphery and caused friction – it’s unlikely we’ll ever hear the full story as we still haven’t heard the truth about Higgygate yet.
Though one thing we do know is that unless everyone is on board and pulling in the same direction then it’s very unlikely success will follow – if Nigel Pearson is deemed the man to unite a dressing room then I may have missed something. Granted many of the players are behind Agnew but that would only extend if Boro got off to winning ways in the Championship – and that’s something we can’t be sure of given his record in charge.
It does sound like head coach (or whatever he’s called) is going to be a job for an experienced hand and someone who commands respect out of ability and not out of fear.
I suspect the Championship promotion side was reasonably united at least in their collective success. My guess is perhaps when the new arrivals came in during the summer it could have pushed some noses out of joint (Dimi treatment?).
Maybe Gaston although here previously wasn’t a “Team” player off the pitch (not that he was on it either since Xmas) and when he came back it rattled a few. Maybe six foot Valdes needed a double locker for all his medals and medical files? Who knows as none of us are behind the scenes but its clear that a right royal mess has been made.
The strangest thing however is Leo who undoubtedly wears his crazy heart on his sleeve, for him to fall out with AK seems very odd and gives credence to the Higgy, Albert and now Friend/Leadbitter/Downing stories.
There is still a huge question and that is who let it all happen and descend so deep and so far for so long?
Meanwhile Leeds seem to be delighted to be getting Orta and there are now tenuous links being made to AK. I guess if he wants to stay in England then both Sunderland and Leeds are the nearest to where he lives if he doesn’t fancy uprooting the family. Problem for him is which hornets nest does he choose?
So Valdes is gone. Who next?
Many changes as it looks now. Hopefully a change at head couxh level, too. And soon.
Up the Boro!
When there’s a wasp in the dessert, the rest of the meal, no matter how good it might be, is spoiled too.
The end of Valdes’ time with Boro – he hasn’t played since April 8 – stings.
Good riddance, he was pants for the first few months. It was a complete mistake bringing him in, although not as much a mistake as bringing in Guzan.
No Teapot. He kept us in many a game. His errors were just so spectacular that they detracted from the good he did.
I think we could have done more to make him feel like he belonged at Boro, and I include AK in that category too. We aren’t the first to sign higher profile keepers when we go up. We won’t be the last.
With Guzan though there is no excuse.
I happen to disagree with your opinion, and that’s all it is, an opinion.
Valdez is poor, IMO.
The new arrivals may well have put noses out of joint but it is the job of their fellow players, and the fans, to make them feel welcome, to help them integrate as much as possible. Transition, as I’ve said repeatedly, happens all the time at every club. When Mourinho first arrived in England he wasted no time in discarding the popular Hasselbaink and Cudicini for Drogba and Cech. AK does the same with Negredo and Valdes for Rhodes and Dimi* and there’s a big hullabaloo.
*In the hope that they’d have the same effect they had for his mentor, no doubt. It didn’t work, obviously. I hypothesise that this was not only because Boro ’16 and Chelsea ’04 were wide apart on the quality scale, but also because Boro’s promotion heroes felt like a family that didn’t need breaking up.
But. Progress at the top level demands a distasteful ruthlessness. We might not like it but it is the way of things and needs to be accepted.
Simon
Progress at the top does indeed demand a distasteful ruthlessness at times. From the start of the Season I’d made my mind up that Valdes flattered to deceive, too short in stature, poor communication with his defenders. It took him 3 months to get match fit and in the meantime we dropped points almost as often as he dropped clangers.
I was 50/50 on the Stoke goal at the Riverside on opening day but after a few more flaps and indecision my mind was made up and never changed. Like Mejias before him he found out that English Football isn’t the same as Spanish shot stopping. AK was too stubborn or embarrassed to admit he got the Goalkeeper wrong twice. In fact three times if you include Guzan maybe even four times if you include ditching Steele as quickly as he did.
Bringing in Negredo could have been his Drogba moment but Chelsea passed forwards, went over the half way line and actually got the ball up to Drogba. In terms of acceptance there wasn’t a single solitary signing that was markedly better than what we already had in place, not one. The closest he came was Chambers for Ayala and that’s it, a dozen signings and all of them duds. Ruthless yes but progress absolutely not it was sheer obstinate, blinkered, pig headedness and we paid the price for SG taking 5 months to see it.
(Nods head slowly… to a point.)
I felt bad for Steele too, but Given’s arrival was inspired. Still saddened Stoke hijacked the permanent deal.
Mejias did very well in the high profile cup ties. Sadly the league was another matter.
Completely, 100%, totally and utterly agree with this post.
The RR one. Not the Simon post.
Len
Re your post at 10.06 which I have just read. I could not agree more and, as so often, you have hit the nail firmly on the head.
We need a Cloughie to sort this shambles out and show who exactly is in charge and what the consequences are if players do not perform or toe the line.
KP
Cloughie is one of my all time heroes AND his approach at Leeds didnt go down too well.
Interpersonal communication can be quite a conunderum- like!
Simon
Many things are done differently by coaches, from what we hear if a player is injured some coaches just leave them to the medical team. If they are not fit they are not in the first team squad.
What we do know is that coaches/managers don’t do democracy.
So I’m guessing it’s Agnew who is letting Valdes go and who offered a Dimi a year’s extension. That suggests he’s being given the gig going forward. Which is preferable to Giggs taking us forward. Otherwise, if a new manager was coming in, whomever it is in the board room who sanctioned Dimi’s deal, surely would have waited to see if the keeper was wanted.
Or perhaps there is an unannounced manager pulling the strings but is still under contract somewhere else and can’t be named yet.
Or the club are a basket case and all decisions are being made on the hoof..
I know Negredo and Chambers have gone back to their club, but isn’t that just a euphemism for the ending of their contracts? Presumably they’ve gone on their holidays. I’m hoping we could still sign or or another or both.
I HOPE it’s not as suggested in your third paragraph, above.
Nice words from Negredo, was he one of the divisive influences or a hard working pro? His words seem to show him trying to paint a picture of a team man.
Chris, I assume it is contracts ending and they return to their clubs for discussions on their futures.
I don’t think Negredo was one of the divisive influences as he too was dropped by AK for allegedly having an opinion that perhaps we needed to attack more in an effort to score goals and it looked to me that under Agnew he always gave 100% defending, scrapping and closing down.
Meanwhile I see Watford and Southampton are being linked with “interest” in de Roon. Simples offer them a bogof. To the Saints buy de Roon and get Ramirez free, to the Hornets Guedioura has to be a make-weight in the deal just as Barragan was inflicted upon us with the Negredo deal.
I don’t think there is anything to be read into the outgoings as a measure of Agnew calling the shots, the departures were loan deals which simply expired at the end of the Season. the Dimi thing surely is a no brainer, cheap, loyal and holds the record for the most consecutive clean sheets in the clubs history. I reckon Grant will also be offered a similar extension deal to keep him at the club for the Championship season. A new manager would not exactly be lumbered by either of them in the Championship.
Good good blog.
The fans are facing up to the situation that we are in, and it is making them very angry.
I do not think any club has ever gone into the Premiership and proceeded to spend the entire season in turmoil(and I do mean “not trying”.) sorry if that sounds a little extreme. The common sense view would be that a team would still pick up some points, just by happenstance.
I’m pretty sure most fans who followed them would agree that, with rare exceptions that is what happened, we were certainly very reluctant to go on and win when in the ascendancy, only think of Leicester, twice, Arsenal, away, and others.
On the same subject, but different,
We are witnessing the scottification of the premier league, evidence? All around us.
The fifteen point gap between the eighth club and the rest, and they had their panic attacks during the season.
Add the fact that the greedy four are trying to take the lions share of the money on offer(failed as of now) but still living in hope.
The Championship is now thirty four strong.
Ten of them are playing in the Premiership, in body, but not in spirit, this season every one has, at some point resigned themselves to going down, but only three could do that.
What followed was a brutal and squalid battle, yes, elbows will be used, and knees, and heads, more often than not the only part of the body that was not used was the foot.
The point about Scottish football is quite important, because the leading clubs there thought it would settle down at four top clubs.
In fact it has settled at one top club, unbeaten, league won by Christmas, uncompetitive football, the fans of that club in seventh heaven, be very careful what you wish for.
Our top four have painted themselves into a corner, if they slip, they die, every time a very wealthy man comes into the game, they must try to bring in rules to stop him repeating their trick(such as, you are not allowed to spend your own money on very good players, because that would not be very fair) it’s true, you could not invent it.
The gap was between Everton in 7th and Southampton in 8th, 61 points against 46.
Top 7 teams in a different league.
Teapot
What you say is bad enough, but consider, Everton are as poverty stricken as those below them.
That talk endlessly of joining the big boys, yet their striker is off, Barkley? Ditto, their manager has said that he is Barcelona through and through, make of that what you will.
So I think that the financial divide is widening by the day.
We will not even talk about the open refusal to even try to compete by the old lags in 17-9th position, who simply target the teams around them and play about twenty cup finals during the season(these are played under different rules, I think it’s called all in, as in wrestling)
The purge continues!
No word on Bausor’s exit – thought not!
Spartakboro
Re your post at 4.01. I fully acknowledge that Leeds was not his finest hour but that was just one club, let’s not forget his successes at Pools, Derby & Forest – just sayin like :-!
KP
I never forget! The man was a giant of football IMHO. But, context is key.
KP
Neither was Brighton, the link being he needed Peter Taylor.
Plato
The premiership money is split far better than in La Liga. The figures I saw showed us getting just over £104m, the figure for the top clubs were just over £150m.
Each club got £84m then extra according to TV appearances and prize money for where you finished in the table.
Of course, we could always go the Spanish route and give two teams £150m and the bottom clubs £10m (in that proportion whatever the figures)
The premiership is sold all over the world because they like the product and the whole premiership benefits from it. That is why we get such big parachute payments, we will get £50m next season for being miserable failures.
If the top four controlled it they would give us 10% of chuff all, it would suit them to have individual negotiating rights – the EU have tried to impose those rules on the game in the UK but the premiership have stuck to their guns.
The Premiership want full grounds with the away section sold out because it improves the product for sale abroad.
We could have the much vaunted German system with a league of 1.
Sparta
You are quite correct in what you say.
In the last three months the league held a meeting. During that meeting the top six? Asked the rest to leave the room as they wanted to discuss something between themselves.
When the rest of them returned, they were told that the leading group were unhappy about the distribution of the rights money, as no one wished to see the rest of the rubbish, that would be the rest of the league I presume, therefore they should receive the bulk of the rights cash.
I can only think you must have missed it, and I must have read it in the Times.
Just a thought, if downings in charge then of course fat sam
Rich
If Downing’s in charge, then it’s his brother in law and Aggers.
We’ll have to wait and see if Big Sam really is retiring.
I have heard this afternoon that Ben is staying at BORO for at least one more season but my source has no news about the managers post.
EXMIL CHALLENGE 2017
Firstly a great amount of credit must go to Werdermouth, who has taken most of the work in producing this years challenge, thanks for making it so much easier for me this year.
Congratulations to Paulista Park for doing a Chelsea and being this years Champion. Qualifying for the Champions League congratulations to KP in Spain, Paul and Len Masterman although Len will have to go through the qualifying round. Congratulations to Ladyboro who will be our representative in the Europa Cup.
As with winners there are always losers (and I use that word in the nicest possible way) going through the trapdoor to the Championship are Original Fat Bob, Spartakboro and Simon Fallaha although they can take heart from the fact they completed the season whereas from the original 39 starters we finished with 29 runners and riders. After an extraordinary meeting of the FA involving UEFA and FIFA it has been decided to reinstate the above mentioned 3 and relegate those who did not complete the season.
Thanks once again to Werdermouth for his technical magic but most of all, thanks to everyone who took the time and trouble to enter the Challenge, without you all there wouldn’t be one.
Come on BORO.
Sorry I didnt finish – mitigating circumstances – couldnt bear to think about the end result!! How about a wild card?
PS The final standings table can be seen through the link on the sidebar.
Come on BORO.
I am not sure that I dare to look……..
Hells bells, I’ve ended up in 9th place for forecasting that Boro were rubbish. If I’d thought they were more rubbish I’d have been even higher. I still can’t have a beer either.
It’ll be different next season.
UTB,
John
Many thanks exmil and Werder, in producing a challenge that was yet another triumph for the blog. It’s been very enjoyable, and rather more so than the football itself.
Congratulations to Paulista, leading from the front and a clear winner, not only in the final points tally but in terms of the number of results correctly predicted. I also loved the fact that Bob was more concerned to try and do his best for the Boro rather than being too bothered about personal kudos. A tribute to the spirit of the blog, as was the high level of participation. Pints all round.
Plato
I was in the car and gave some more thought about money.
Lets assume no TV money, ticket prices average £30 per seat across all grounds.
ManU get 75,000 every match equating to 2.25m per match, £42.75m per season.
Boro get 30,500 every match, £0.915m per match, £17.385m per season.
The same old story as it always was, the bigger clubs get more revenue and always have done.
Ian
No, that is not what I meant.
The enormous wealth that is pouring into football through the rights is falling onto all the Prem. At present.(including ourselves this season)
What I was saying was that the top clubs are out to change that, if they can?
In mitigation to a poor personal Exmil showing, I take my place in the top 7 for predicting Boro’s final results. And thats all that counts really! lol
Happy days
So Negredo has left with the serenity of a man who picked up half-a-million quid for each of his ten goals – including two double-strike mis-hits, should we forget.
I’m inclined to think I’d be more than serene for that kind of renumeration – I don’t think you could stop me floating around without a trouble in the world for at least a decade – possibly more!
In fact you could tie a piece of string to my big toe and take me to children’s parties for them to gaze in amazement at the incredible floating man as I shouted down to them “What do you want to be when you grow up? I’ve just been paid £5m to run around on my own for a few months”
“I want to be a nurse” comes a cry from below – “don’t be ridiculous!” I’d reply “you’ll be forced to visit food banks in order to eat – just practice running around and make sure you like people drawing pretty pictures on your arms in blue biro – and try not to smile otherwise people will think you enjoy it and pay you less”
Sorry, I have to go now my agent thinks I’ve said to much…
Werder
That is the problem with our empathising with players, they live in a different world.
Please don’t take this as slagging of players but it was the only example I can remember. After the play off defeat he tweeted pictures of the player and his girlfriend in business class to Dubai ( I cant remember the exact details). The average Teessider struggled home by hook or by crook to the North East and went back to work the next day.
Most of us cannot comprehend living on a weekly wage the same as their annual salary. I am sure that is why the gazette vote after Charltongate was 80% in support of Aitor. Nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of the situation merely that they would sell their sole to play for Boro, to get paid that much is just a Brucie bonus.
They don’t care about squabbles behind the scenes, just get on with it for the money.
7th? I’ll take that, although missing out on Europe is worrying.
Martin
I finished 8th, gutted.
I will smash it next season.
Do I get a celebratory Fat Sam pint of wine for clawing my way back from rock bottom at Christmas and surviving the drop?
Southgate wants to pick players who feature in big matches, challenging for titles, European games, big cup matches.
Speculation is that Rooney wont be picked in the England squad, may play a factor in Ben’s plans for the future.
Congrats to ManU, loathe them or really loathe them at least it helps the Uefa coefficient for our successful challenge in season 2018/19.
Well after a day In the garden I’ve come back into the house and spent a happy time going through all the posts!
Everyone seems to be well involved
Interesting to see all the players being talked about who want to jump ship or are being ogled by other championship clubs
Ranging from Leadbitter to Forshaw Sheff wed de Roon Southampton Valdez to the USA and Traore on loan.
I posted last week that I had heard that Ben was probably staying and hope it’s true.
Valdez and De Roon are two of the players with relegation escape clauses in their contracts to its no surprise they are off
What does concern me is the level of team building required to smash the league !
It looks like we could be 7 down possibly more.
Signing Dimi is a strange one unless he’s really cheap or he needs to pay SG the loan back of his restaurant and SG is making sure he has the funds to do it !
I notice on twitter that the EG journos are taking a bit of stick at the moment probably because people expect to be told what is happening and not a white wash
Personally I love this Premium Service I do !
Thanks to Exmil for the challenge it was a case of my heart ruling my head but at lest I’m still in the league
Thank You
OFB
Whatever happens we need a definite decision on the manager ASAP. Anyone remember the shambles in 2001, where we seemed to have three managers at one point? Do not need such uncertainty at the moment
Downing commenting on “passengers” also of great annoyance. Probably after Ramirez I would have Downing as (now thankfully) last season’s biggest on pitch disappointment. Leadbitter’s comments on the communication problem were also baffling, as club captain should it not be for him to attempt to iron out such issues? Sadly perhaps illustrative of the wider problem, that everyone saw problems but was not prepared to do anything about it.
Thanks to Exmil. Sadly it was pessimists (or realists) to the fore and optimists (or old dreamers) to the rear. Just about sums up the season.
I’ll be sad if DeRoon goes but not surprised and surely, if he is going, the key element is to hold out for a proper transfer fee that reflects what he cost.
It’s hard to see how SG can pick Agnew after the problems of the last two months but it is feeling quite likely. Does he have a plan that will change things. There’s no evidence so far. The nightmare scenario will be to stay with him and then find by October that we’ve made a terrible mistake.
Good to see that Chapman got on the field for England even if just for 10 minutes. We seem to have a lot of talented kids but is the Championship the place for them to thrive. Ripley is that bit older and has survived in a tough league and seems a logical choice but the others…..who knows. Maybe DeSart and Fry are ready. Anybody have any strong thoughts?
As ever…waiting fir news.
UTB
The main problem about the younger players breaking into the first team is there is such a gap between playing for the U23 team.
I don’t think Chapman is ready yet after monitoring his performance whilst on loan. He was injured for a while and didn’t play a full season. I regularly read the match reports where our lads are playing on loan and only Ripley has been consistently playing and playing well.
De Sart didn’t play for Derby as the change of manager meant he didn’t want to play loan players
Our scouting team regularly watch our players who are out on loan and report back.
Fry didn’t play many games out on loan either
I would think of them all only Ripley could play next season and only if we don’t sign an experienced keeper.
One story going the rounds is we are interested in the Brighton keeper so watch this space
Next season the team should run out to the tune.
” Monster Mash” substitute Smash
By
Bobby Picket and The Kryptic Kickers
There’s a few Kryptic Kickers amongst the Boro fans …….
FIRSTLY, I was happy with mid-table mediocrity in the Exmil Challenge. A 15th place showed a considerable improvement over the performance I put in earlier in the challenge. Maybe I was becoming more realistic as time went on.
I agree we should give Ripley (Mk 2) a chance to prove his worth, but I am pleased to hear suggestions that Dimi will be offered a year’s extension. I’d love to see Fry given a chance, and I suspect he will be up to the challenge. I would also like to see Chapman given an opportunity. What is the point having an academy if you ignore its products, even after they have gone out on loan and performed well?
Thanks to Exmil for the final Challenge Results. Like everybody else I am glad that is all over. Even I was rubbish at the end.
Told last night that an ex Boro Player/Coach had said ….Aggers, no chance. So. Aggers it must be, there does not seem to be anybody else available
Higgy ?
Congratulations to Paulista for his comprehensive win in the Exmil challenge and thanks to Exmil and Werdermouth for all their hard work. A bit of fun during an annus horribilus! 😎
I second that – a wonderful diversion from the misery. Regret not finishing the course but well done to all who did. And thanks again Exmil.
Will have to get my old promotion spread sheet ready – not long to go!!
Well done to Exmil and Werdermouth in creating the fun.
Interesting that Swansea’s run-in pretty much skewed most of our predictions. Clement may not have been a sensational appointment but a calm and astute one who clearly knew what he was doing. It helps of course that the core of his squad were lower Premiership standard as oppose to our recruited raggle taggle bunch of misfits.
My 11th placing is a bit of a worry considering that I’m probably on the side of being a tad cynical at times (or outright pessimist) but even then Boro managed to outdo me. Maybe I need to put my foam hands away! 🙂
The rumour mill is now starting to tout Woody as next Manager with Aggers as his assistant. Sincerely hope this is nothing other then the bizarre imagination of a twelve year old somewhere typing on the net. Taking Brighton and Newcastle as benchmarks neither club’s manager was a newbie or a calculated gamble or risk. Both were proven, tried and tested, experienced managers. Hope SG takes heed and doesn’t land us with another Southgate scenario with an Aggers/Woody/Giggs etc.
RR
I find that rumour hard to believe but there again SG does have previous and has rose tinted spectacles as far as appointments and old boys go!
With all his business/managerial experience you would expect him to be a bit less paternal and a bit more ruthless at times.
Do not get me wrong, I admire and am grateful for all he has done for the club and the area but he is not a saint and does make mistakes and has flaws.
He can’t however afford to make mistakes this time as it could prove fatal imho.
Talking briefly about de Sart to a friend. he seems to a bit like de Roon, good engine and tackler, his distribution let him down at times.
Nigel Pearson to be formally interviewed for position as Boro head coach next week according to Northern Echo this morning.
On de Sart, I wouldn’t hold out too many hopes.
He made his debut in a great Cup win at West Ham, and one Derby supporter blogged that it was the finest debut he had ever seen at the club. Accordingly I took an enthusiastic interest in Derby’s next televised game – at Leeds, as I recall.
Derby were 2 or 3 down by half-time and de Sart had an absolute stinker, offering no protection to his back four, giving away stupid free-kicks, missing tackles, losing his man, the full Monty. He didn’t make the second-half, and his substitution didn’t come a moment too soon.
Next time I saw him was another TV game at Norwich. Result? A re-run of the Leeds game with our lad subbed at half-time. He was awful, and seemed totally nonplussed by the pace, physicality, and basic requirement to dig- in that the Championship demands. He seemed to want to play pretty, short passes, oblivious to his basic defensive duties. A fish out of water in the English game.
I don’t think he had much of a look-in since then, and since Rowett’s appointment he has been explicitly told that, as a loan player, he wouldn’t be getting a game.
I’m afraid the lad looks to me like yet another in our long line of abortive “projects”.
Which yet again raises the question of the future of Gary Gill and his analytics boys. No news, and I suspect no prospect, of them being told to hit the road. But their record has been truly abysmal, and over more than one season. They appear to represent one of the club’s major structural defects, and a department in urgent need of analysis and a major overhaul.
But I’m not holding my breath.
I think de Sart will be filed under de Pena in the Orta bin. The lad is too slow and too lightweight without any fire in his belly from the bits that I have seen. Not as bad as Traore for watching the game pass him by but equally as ineffective. I often wonder how these lads ever make it to this level and why other clubs then actually buy them. Only problem will be if there is enough room in the Orta bin, maybe we should hire a skip.
Werder
No other links to the story yet, it is another story that ‘Boro fans writing for Boro fans’ didn’t break but there again they are probably embargoed or the source isn’t one of theirs. I remember referring to a Northern Echo story on Vic’s blog and he did ask not to mention the Northern Echo, couldn’t blame him, it is a competing local paper.
There will be a video being prepared, possibly at this very moment.
Len
It is interesting that Leeds were very keen on Orta.
I hope Orta recommends Gestede, Guedioura and half a dozen others that he had a hand in bringing into the club to the Leeds board . On the Gill thing he doesn’t come out of this with any glory but as I’ve mentioned before he may have expressed concerns and was blatantly ignored which seems to have been a bit of a thing if your face or lingo didn’t fit under the former regime.
Gary Gill may have been Boro’s Spartak and was dissed until the chickens finally came home to roost. If so that would explain why he is still around (and rightly so).
My exmil challenge was abit like Boros season,forgettable!!
Re Dimi I read on another site somewhere that if he had made a Premier League appearance then it would have triggered an improved salary.
Seeing as we had signed Valdes and Guzan the club wouldn’t have wanted to pay Dimi more money for an occasional appearance so maybe some truth in that.
Think SG needs to get a move on and appoint a new manager if we are going to “smash the championship” he needs as much time as possible to prepare for the coming season and ship out who he doesn’t want and identify new players. I’m hoping this season the new manager actually has the final say on players coming in.
Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t believe the transfer window is open yet and any reports, other than leaving by mutual consent (cancelled contract) everything is pure speculation in a period were there is no news.
I have reread the de Roon article and he is asked if he would prefer to play/stay in the Premiership, what did people expect him to say “No I want to play in the Conference with Hartlepool”. He does go on to say he has a contract with Middlesbrough and we will see what happens in the summer but then Ben Gibson had a similar interview in the media and don’t forget journalists can “cherry pick” interviews to make it more sensational than it is, remember SG words don’t believe everything you read in the papers.
Negrado and Chambers have both returned to their parent clubs after their loans expired and said their thanks and farewells but do people know for definite neither will return in the transfer window ! I know people will say but they have said their farewells but if they had returned to their respective clubs and said nothing then they would have been criticised for being ignorant.
I am not saying who will or won’t be at the club come the end of the transfer window, even though I mentioned from inside the club that Ben is staying, if a £50m bid came in, who knows what will change. The point I am making is let’s not judge people by speculative reporting, let’s wait for concrete deals done, how many times in the past have we been expecting this player or that manager only after non appearance, to find out it was a load of bull.
I appreciate people on this site (such as myself,OFB and others) passing on information we receive in good faith as we are all hungry for the latest news/rumour about MFC but let’s not read too much into it until it becomes fact.
Come on BORO.
Well said Exmil. I think we are just all too eager and anxious to wipe that stain of a season from our memory and start to build afresh with hope and expectation which is why SG must ensure that whoever he brings in lights up the diasboro and I don’t just mean this board although it would be a good litmus test.
If he chooses to go with say Aggers or Woody then the pressure will be on them immediately as the anticipation is that they will be expected to fail spectacularly and the knives will be out even before the pre season friendlies. The fans will be agonisingly waiting until mid to late October and the “I told you so” comes to the fore along with all the abusive tweets and blogs etc. Come then that will be a significant chunk of the season wasted that could keep us down for another season and could trigger another six or seven years or even worse.
exmil
That is correct, we know little. The disaffected elements may have been Ramirez initially then Valdes after AK left. Just two pebbles in a pond make waves.
Players leaving at the end of their loans are no more stories than the 10.23 Northern Rail service leaving for Bishop Auckland station.
A breaking story in the Gazette, they ‘understand’ Nigel Pearson seems to be a strong candidate for the Middlesbrough managers job.
Just to confirm – The 2017 summer transfer window opens on Friday, June 9 and will shut at 11pm on Thursday, August 31 – this also now applies to loan deals too as there isn’t an emergency loan window anymore.
Though it’s likely not much will happen until after June 30th as most players contracts usually run until that date and no doubt many will be on holiday for most of June. Also prising players away from other clubs is usually a quite drawn out affair (especially with Boro) unless yo make an offer they can’t refuse (as we seemingly did in January for Bamford and Gestede)
So, Nigel Pearson seems to be moving up the list of managerial contenders for the Boro, if appointed he’d become the forth Boro centre back to manage the club by my reckoning. Who knows some time in the future Ben Gibson may become the fifth!
The report in the Gazette suggests Steve Gibson is being patient, perhaps he’s waiting for the outcome of the Championship play off final before making a final decision?
Nigel
I think your last paragraph is probably spot on as the choices available to SG appear to have reduced in the last few days.
I don’t know a lot about Wagner but he does seem highly regarded. I am concerned about Nigel, as like Aitor, he seems to have temperament issues.
Assuming that Monk and Jokanovic are not available then my preference would as follows:
Wagner
Bruce
Pardew
Pearson
If Huddersfield gain promotion then that will probably discount Wagner and we may have difficulty in prising Bruce away from Villa.
So not looking ideal from my perspective but clearly better options than Agnew and his support staff – Jordan & Woodgate need to go.
Glasgow Rangers are having a fire sale with players no longer wanted by the club . A clear our in other words. They have sent a list to all clubs with players names and prices. Think Boro should do the same . It will be a long list preferably with Downing at the top.
Would Pearson get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 8/10
Would Wagner get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 6/10
Would Bruce get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 7/10
Would Agnew get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 5/10
Would Pardew get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 8/10
Would Monk get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 6/10
Would Jokanovic get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 8/10
Would Giggs get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 5/10
Would Warnock get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 8/10
Would Grayson get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 6/10
Would Allardyce get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 9/10
Would Stam get us promoted?
I would say likelihood is 7/10
Maybe I should be cheeky and add Silva into the above list now that he has departed Hull?
I’m not in favour of Pardew at all, don’t like him! Steve Bruce I’m not sure about either for reasons I cant quite put my finger on.
Wagner would be top of most peoples list I think because he’s had an unexpectedly good season, but then having one doesn’t necessarily mean a second will follow.
Big Nige I’d be happy with, he’s clearly not perfect but then who is?
As for the present coaching staff, Woody needs to be given a coaching role in the academy and work his way up from there. Joe Jordan I’m guessing was very much an interim appointment.
Here’s a question for you all, if your 12 year old daughter was due to go to a concert in the coming weeks with her Mum would you still let her go in light of events in Manchester?
Logic tells me its probably the safest time to go to a concert, emotion is saying something quite different.
Its strange Nigel because the ones I’ve scored the highest with the exception of Jokanovic (and Silva) are the ones that I would probably find the most unpleasant. I
agree about Bruce, don’t know why but the guy just irritates me (probably very unfair on my part).
On the concert my head says yes but my heart says no.The likelihood is that security would be tighter than a gnats whatsit but the parental protection thing kicks in so I would say no in the view of better safe than sorry even though Football stadia are just as likely a target and that won’t stop me going.
I’d definitely let my daughter go. We’ve changed our plans this weekend to make a point of defiance.
We’re off to the Trafford Centre tomorrow and into Manchester City Centre on Saturday for a few drinks.
I’m not letting some murdering no mark affect what I do.
Nigel
Difficult decision but it’s better to have tantrums on why they can’t go to having tears for other reasons
Book a surprise holiday that clashes with the date !
Well done to Graeme Storme, one of our own and one of the golfers shown with head bowed and eyes closed at Wentworth during the minute’s silence this morning following the tragic events at Manchester earlier this week.
Nigel, If it was me and I was going I would say stuff em they are not going to stop me living my life as a see fit.
If it was a son or daughter going then I know my thoughts and emotions would be some what different. You are probably right in thinking now is probably the safest time to go but…
Great news to see that Ben Gibson has been named in the England squad – thoroughly deserved after his performances and leadership this season.
Let’s hope that his inclusion, despite the club’s relegation, will encourage him to stay.
Wouldn’t blame him if he moved on if the right opportunity came along and would wish him well and follow his career with interest.
Nigel
It might encourage him to stay, it might get even more interest in him.
As a football fan pleased for him.
Missed the Silva story but just got in.
200?
A swoop of lurkins!
Gents, your thoughts on the concert issue are appreciated, it’s a tough one.
Martin – enjoy your outing to Manchester city centre, its a great city. I had many a good time there in the dim and distant past.
The manager decision is a tough one for SG as well, I cant see Agnew getting it if others are serious contenders. I think if it was Agnew he’d know by now.
The problem with all ‘good’ football managers is that they seem to have some negative aspect to their character, maybe its a requirement of the role.
Big heads, big ego’s, agent bungs, continually miserable, bottle or three of wine, bullying all these things and more get overlooked when they are delivering and putting Silverware on the table. The more characterful (and Continental) often the more successful they appear to be for some reason these days. Gone are the Robson’s the Nicholson’s, Greenwood’s and Mercer’s.
And shanklys and stein
RR,
There was certainly a 8/10 chance that Pearson would have taken Derby down from the Championship after he was appointed this time last year. By the end of September they had won only one of their nine league games, scored one goal at home, and were 20th in the league. Nigel left after a delegation from the senior squad claimed that he was impossible to work with, and he had had a major falling out with the Chairman, ending in a confrontation, during which he had to be physically restrained. This, all part of a pattern in which he had continually shown that he had some difficulties in controlling his anger. He left the club a spectacular failure, but considerably enriched with a multi-million pound cheque in his pocket for his nine league games in charge.
Sounds like the very chap for us.
Steve McClaren took over and with the same players, reeled off a string of 8 wins and a draw out of 9 matches and took the club to the verge of the play-off spots by Christmas.
The reason that I asked, in a pathetic attempt at irony, that if Pearson and Aggers were on a short list of three, whether the third person might be Ben Bradley, was that these three probably possess the worst managerial records in the top two divisions over the past season.
Welcome to the asylum.
I agree Len about Big Nige and his baggage. What I would say is that in the last two years Derby have had 7 Managerial changes (including Chris Powell as Temp). Schteeeve was in there twice and Paul Clement didn’t last long so whilst no doubt Nige has some issues the Club obviously has just as many internal issues themselves. Perhaps they (players and the board) didn’t like a few home truths?
Apparently the argument with the Derby chairman was over his use of drones to spy on training sessions – which Pearson strongly objected to. Though I think there have been problems in the Derby camp for a number of seasons and even Paul Clement departed suddenly too.
Though I’m struggling to see how Big Nige is anything other than a high risk appointment – so is Agnew for different reasons. Boro just need a competent safe pair of hands as they will have the biggest budget in the league next season and we need someone who can use the resources to put a decent team together and achieve two points per game.
Having said that, Riyad Mahrez credited Pearson in building the team that won the PL, so he does have some ability – though it’s debatable if he’s got the right mentality to execute his plans.
Len
Moyes could be a possibility but that doesn’t bear thinking about either.
The shortlist could be Agnew, Downing and Woodgate!
On Twitter it’s saying Monk has resigned from Leeds!!!!
Just seen on the BBC sport website that Monk has resigned from Leeds!
CoB and SG.
Beat you to it !
Is the timing co-incidental?
There are reports Monk has left Leeds.
Maybe he didn’t fancy working with Orta..
Orta has apparently recommended Karanka for the Leeds job
Hope Monk is not thinking about going up the road to you know who!
Or Hull?
OFB
I am a bit further away from the action than you here on the costa 😎.
Yea but it’s sunny here today too !
Let’s enjoy ……
Karanka for Leeds joining up again with Orta?
Maybe Monk could bring his winning habit to Boro…
Amen to that
As you see from my rare posts some of us have other things to do than hang around the bloog! Sniffs haughtily.
Pearson, Monk and Agnew on the shortlist?
Ian
I’m on the blog whilst writing this
Ambidextrous!
Redcar Red
Coincidences do happen but I would suspect Monk is not in a silent order and has been in contemplation for some time hoping his prayers would be answered.
We do have to remember there are premiership jobs available as well.
As well as Sunderland and Hull
Werdermouth
As long as he does not bring with him the dirty Leeds habits! 😎
Sandalous statement have you no sole?
We shouldn’t forget that here are also some PL clubs looking for a manager and Monk will no doubt have attracted attention of some of them.
It’s also possible that the ‘leaked’ news of Pearson’s interview next week may have been deliberately done to apply pressure to more preferred targets.
No doubt we will hear of a sighting of a Monk near Mount Grace priory shortly (or Tontine anyway)!
As long as winning becomes a good habit and plenty of Parmos in the friar of we don’t win we’re friar tucked !
Monk available? That may change things a little, he could be off to Palace of course….
I think Jokanovic is their No.1 target.
Which is a shame because I’ve been saving the “Yer Jokanovic arn’t yer” line for weeks.
Got all excited and upbeat about the Monk resignation and then realised he is probably off to Palace.
Now downbeat again with the thoughts of who we will probably end up with ☹️.
Palace have offered the job to Jokanovic apparently.
Monk it would appear has a job offer In the bag and presumably he’s accepted it.
I cant imagine he would resign on the basis he was on a short list of three for another job, he could be off to Watford of course.
Sunderland and Hull seem less likely destinations for him, things are getting interesting now.
Can’t see him quitting Leeds for Hull, another club with eccentric owners besides Silva has just quit and I doubt there will have been enough time to agree terms. Sunderland is a possibility but if it’s us or them my guess is that SG is the better boss option plus more freedom and cash to bring in who he wants. Watford is a possibility but they seem to go down the Continental route rather than British.
I haven’t seen a piece on MFC announcing a shortlist, it is all rumours and speculation, whispers and hints.
Just been reading an AV story on Orta’s reign after Karanka
Leo threw him out of the dressing room when he wanted to talk to his players
Karanka still communicated to them by text
Players didn’t want to play
The chief executive should resign if he didn’t know he should go if he did know Shame on him
Neil Bausor go now for pity’s sake man appalling executive management
https://diasboro.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/monk-sighting-2.jpg
Hope we don’t make a grave mistake !
Ian, there’s a piece in the Gazette referring to Jokanovic, Monk and Bruce, maybe they know the shortlist but cant say directly.
Or maybe the short list has morphed assuming Jokanovic gets a Prem job to, Monk, Pearson, Bruce.
As you say, all speculation, but speculating is part of the fun.
So……. Monk resigns. Orta and now Karanka linked with Leeds. The game is afoot!
Nigel
I wasn’t complaining, it will be a long summer and we need something to keep us going.
The monk in Werder’s grahic looks a bit grimy so he could be from somewhere dirty.
Whoops, got my alter-ego there, back to smoggypaul!!
Perhaps he has dirty habit?
UTB,
John
OFB – Just read the article you mentioned…
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/inside-story-victor-orta-how-13090744
Quite unbelievable what was happening – almost an attempted coup by Orta who thought he could control the players he signed over the head of Agnew who was then in charge.
It did sound from what players were saying that something bigger was going on behind the scenes but why wasn’t Orta shown the door earlier?
Orta gone ages ago
Reading Vic’s piece in the Gazette, Orta sounds like poison. The conclusion to where the season went so badly wrong would have Orta close too its heart I would suspect.
Having your chief scout walking into the changes after a match demanding to speak to ‘his’ players sounds totally bizarre.
Incredible that it was allowed to happen, through in Charltongate and what the heck was going on for the last 16 months or so?
It would appear that Downing may not have been the villain many have portrayed him to be if this Orta malarkey is remotely true. AS OFB said what on earth was Bausor doing when all this was going on? Was he reporting it to SG and being told to leave it?
The story is only the surface of the iceberg!
“through” should be “throw” bleeding auto text spell thingymajig!
I don’t think Downing was a villain, I just think his goals and assists return for the two seasons he has been back have been woeful. I don’t see him getting any better next season. Get rid!
werder – ‘Why wasn’t Orta shown the door earlier’ is part of the big question isn’t it?
If things were going so badly wrong ie coaches being side lined, Spanish cliques forming the chief scout getting ideas above his station why didn’t the CEO know?
If he did know and didn’t act he should go. If he didn’t know, why he didn’t know needs to be determined so that such a situation can never happen again.
If I was a Leeds fan the prospect of a Karanka/Orta combo would fill me full of dread knowing what Boro fans now know.
Nigel
An even bigger question was why was he recruited in the first place.
His previous role was at Elche close to where i am living in Spain. Shortly after Orta departed Elche were demoted two divisions from La Liga due to financial irregularities.
I am sure this was in the public domain before he departed so where was the due diligence on the part of MFC – another Bausor failure?
KP – I’m not sure that financial irregularities at his previous club would necessarily have any reflection on Orta. He was recruited by Karanka because Karanka wanted him.
Moving forward the chairman needs to determine just how much control he’s going to give his managers.
Bausor may or may not have got a lot wrong, but we can’t lay everything at his door just as its plainly wrong to me to make Downing scapegoat-in-chief. Although there may be a strong argument for Bausor to go, but that is pure speculation.
Read the article about Orta, good riddance is what I say. You suspect he was doing Aitor no favours either, it seems he had his own little group almost outside the structure. I hope Leo wasn’t gentle with him and is becoming less of an Aitor poodle in my eyes.
It looks like Orta was working as a de facto Director of Football.
When I said I thought it wasn’t just AK I didn’t think it was this, even if everyone exaggerates a little it adds up to a fine mess.
AV’s article today is not exactly a bombshell following a steady trickle of comments from players which have been building the impression that things were going seriously wrong behind the scenes. But the clear malfunctions he points to and his very negative recruitment report on the players does seem to mark a new tone and harsher judgements by him.
Back at the start of the season the noises from the Gazette were very positive about our transfer activity, although I do remember AV saying in one of the video pieces that we looked light in creative midfield, and for me that was the recruitment failure which killed us (I may have metioned that before…).
Overall I would defend the Gazette guys for adopting a generally optimistic tone, they have to work with the club and it doesn’t help morale among players, fans or anyone if they are constantly looking to find fault. They have called the really poor performances.
I wonder if AV’s comments are delivered now because the season is over, or whether a source has given him clearer information filling in suspicions with certainties.
I think I’ve heard comments suggesting that the Gazette didn’t get as good access as in previous seasons?
Boronurk
I am delighted that this whole mess is finally out in the open, that is good.
I still think that even the trusties, who should have a very strong interest in the clubs wellbeing, should have devised some way of exploding the whole affair into the public domain. I mean by, say, early October. With their contacts in the media, and friends in powerful places, I believe it could and should have been done.
Oh, and Leo rises in my estimation again…
The question is ,who hired Orta in the first place,and what was his remit?
Answers on a post card to.
Gullible fans
Nigel
The press over here suggested that he had much to answer for as he was to a large degree director of football.
I agree that AK wanted him but surely the CEO has some input/control over who is to become a salaried employee of the company. As part of the recruitment process there should be due diligence. To merely rely upon the the request of another employee is a failing, if that is what happened.
I do not believe that we will ever know the true involvement of each individual and the roles they played or did not play. I agree that everything cannot be laid at Downing’s door for what has taken place.
My reservations about Downing are based upon a return on the investment which I believe todate have been poor. It remains to be seen if another manager can improve upon that return.
KP – I agree Downing hasn’t produced on the pitch, not sure the flak he is getting from some for off field matters is justified though.
As for due diligence, that’s tricky when you’re recruiting, cv, references, are they worth much? If you’re lucky you may be able to use a ‘back channel’ to get info on someone but how reliable is it, does the person supplying the info have an agenda positive or negative?
I’m not sure the club hierarchy can be blamed for employing Orta in the first place, but I think maybe they have something to answer if they’ve let the manager have carte blanche over backroom appointments..
Let’s see,
Last summer we brought in players who had been part of clubs like Barcelona,Valencia,Ajax,Man U, International teams.
They joined the ones from, Doncaster, Huddersfield,Bristol C,Blackburn,Ipswich,Wigan,
It didn’t work out as we wanted,but guess which group is getting the blame,
Wonder how bad it could have been without them.?
GT
I’m assuming you mean how bad it could have been without the ones from Doncaster, Huddersfield,Bristol C,Blackburn,Ipswich,Wigan as they are the only ones to emerge with any credit in this car crash.
Nigel
Yes I agree that background checks are always difficult and I suspect that both you and I have seen cv’s which bear no relationship to an individual’s experience/achievements.
The use of recruitment consultants can play a part but they again have limitations and more so when the recruitment is cross border.
I suppose the real question regarding Bausor is what did and did not happen on his watch, what he knew about and what action he did or did not take.
Questions for someone else to consider and act on. I doubt we will ever know unless they appear in someone’s memoires further down the line.
Don’t forget there was input from the likes of Kenyon as well. KP in Spain adds to my suspicion that Orta was de fact Director of Football.
I remember reading a few days ago he was lining up AK’s replacement back in January, no wonder Aitor was getting twitchy.
The news about Gary Monk seems very significant. He would not resign from Leeds where things had been going well without believing that there was somewhere more promising to go.
I’m not sure he will get an offer to go straight back to the Premiership, because things unravelled for him when he was at Swansea. I think it is a better way back for him to go to the top flight with a team he has built and got promoted, where he already knows most of the players, where they already understand his style of play and they trust him.
Given that Boro, Sunderland and Hull all have parachute payments and may be in his thinking, he would have to consider which one offers the most promising set up, facilities and academy, and what stability and support there would be from the owner. We may hold some aces there.
Plus a reliable bodyguard in Leo.
Been doing some digging, looks like it’s Monk,the reason for the hold up,is he wants his own backroom staff. and that’s the sticking point.
Monk wants his own backroom staff – understandable!!
Understandable given the shambles behind the sçenes.
Any agent who’s been operating in russia should have alarm bells ringin in any half a brain heàd.
No brains at the Boro!!!
Maybe, just maybe we are going to get a manager who can get Pandora’s box firmly shut and buried. It’s getting interesting now.
Wasn’t Jordan a temporary appointment? What about Woody? Will that mean new backroom staff in recruitment too. P45 alert I think.
UTB,
John
I think if Monk is interested then it would be difficult for him to come in and impose himself if he’s got to keep Agnew in his first team coaching staff given that many of them wanted him to have the job on a permanent basis.
Clubs move on loyal players when they see someone better suited and that’s regarded as part of football – so in the end a coach must be regarded as just as expendable too – I think Bernie said also that players get used to coaches after a while and stop listening. Can’t imagine players ignoring Leo though!
So time to freshen it up and get ready for a new man.
Werder, your last sentence is a good summary of what needs to happen if by “freshen up” you mean a proper clearout and a new start.
I said at the time of Charltongate that things at the club would never be the same again and all the stories coming out now about cliques, infighting, divided loyalties and poisoned relationships support my argument. Unless all the malign influences that contributed to the total shambles that was MFC last season – whether management, players or staff- are removed from the club a proper “freshen up” or new start will be impossible. Without a total clear out of the troublemakers the problems will continue to fester and any new manager will find that he is being undermined when he tries to impose what he wants.
Whether SG and Bausor are capable of identifying the malign influences and doing what is necessary is debatable. They either couldn’t identify them during the season or could identify them but deliberately allowed the shambles to continue. Now they need to get it right and soon or next season is going to be another massive disappointment.
From another blog …..Gibson supposed to talking to Monk…appears there is a sticking point in that Monk wants to bring his own backroom team…and so he should ! Hope this is true . Getting fed up now of all the speculation !
Talksport all over the Monk think now ,Leeds fans think Monk lost the plot,last ten games
Agent in Russia? 007?!!
I posted a while back about my shock and horror at Orta’s malign influence. Now it’s all starting to come out, I’m even more shocked. Nay, flabbergasted and disgusted. How on earth has senior management allowed this to happen? Why didn’t someone step in sooner? And if they knew about this, why wasn’t Karanka shown the door much sooner? It’s a complete and total shambles.
And so, to the new manager thing. Reports that Pearson is ‘confident’ of getting the job have angered me intensely. If it’s even remotely true, then I think we might as well all send our season cards back now. I think it was Len in his Mastermanly, masterly way who outlined the chaos he left behind at Derby. No, thank you very much! We’ve had more than enough chaos at Boro to last us, and we don’t want anybody else destabilising the dressing room and torpedoing the morale. We need a proven man manager, probably someone young and dynamic, and who will play fluent, attacking football. Enter, please, either Gary Monk or Marco Silva. And if rumours are true that SG is delaying the potential Monk deal because of a debate over backroom staff, then seriously he needs his head examined. Didn’t we once lose out on Martin O’Neill for that very reason? My mind is well and truly boggled.
Clive
I hope that history is not about to repeat itself here.
A little something a bit less stressful, or not. Listened to a discussion about last season.
Who had a better season? Spurs finishing second or ManU winning the League and Europa Cups and qualifying for the Champions League through the latter.
Twisting it for us, next season would you prefer second spot or the League Cup and winning the play off final?
Second spot !
Agreed
May that seconded!
Or even Make that seconded- I am not keen on May at the moment!
Well it is still May at the moment
Maybe. UTB!
Well I’Ve been a bit busy over the last few weeks with home improvements, work and my sons up coming wedding so not really had too much time to contribute.
Managed, just about, to keep up with the comments and views and somewhat belatedly, a great article from FD. Food for thought indeed.
It is all very interesting now with Monk leaving Leeds when he was offered an extension to his contract although my initial thought was Palace as in the prem already. Surely you wouldn’t leave and join Boro with all the issues that we can see?
Or is it the pull of SG the great chairman and our money tHat makes him think he can do it when he failed before.
Football managership is an odd thing, you fail, you get sacked, paid off and the move into another job where someone thinks can can make a differerence to their team which is under performing! Not sure that would happen to me if I made a Horlicks of my job for my employer!
That said, of the names out there, then Monks is probably the best of an average bunch and English is his first language!
Should be an interesting few days and let’s hope the speculation ends soon one way or another.
Ps – on Nigel’s concert question, if I were going with my daughter then a definitive yes, go -I don’t want to give them the satisfaction of thinking they have had an effect on our way of life. We value freedom which they want to destroy by misguided dogmas.
Not sure I would be letting my 12 year old daughter go on her own to be honest – I have had to sit through some right stuff in the past with her although fortuneatly she has developed her musical taste into things that I like! Including Boro as well!
Boro Becky’s Dad.
Does your last name begin with a B?
Have you suffered from Guillain-Barre Syndrome?
I miss Becky…
Teapot, sorry not a B and never had GBS.
Orta sounds like a controlling, narcissistic piece of work and complements AK well in that respect.
There has been an abject failure throughout the club, and Gazette, not to stand up and speak out during the past 16 months or so.
It’s all very well for Leadbitter and Friend to allude to misgivings now, but as in-house leaders they should have been more vocal at the time. Even now they’re not saying much which speaks of weak character when it comes down to it. We can sadly include Steve Gibson here in his lack of full explanation which all fans deserve. I’m not sure the club as a whole can move fully until we get that. It’s easily done.
While Downing has not delivered on the pitch, he seemingly appears to have at least confronted AK off it and good for him in that respect. To blame his off field stance for any of the club’s troubles really is shooting the messenger.
As for the new man, Monk you’d think has been tapped up by someone. He’s probably as good as anyone for us, if he’s interested of course, but may prefer the wait until the Southampton uncertainty is resolved. He seems like a loyal and decent person.
I doubt Southampton or their fans would consider Monk as a forward step. Boro are not unlike Swansea in terms of club size and potential but possibly a better option long term. He can build his CV here and maybe take us further than he did Swansea knowing that he will be given time, support and patience.
I can’t think of anyone out there that ticks all the boxes,as far as a new coach etc.
I worry about Monk,he did ok at Swansea at first,using someone else’s players, he then changed things and it went pear shaped culminating with the sack.
Maybe the sale of Bony was the big reason.Leeds did well at the start, in a very poor Championship, then lost the chance of play offs.
On a side note and I’ve mentioned it before ,your only as good as your strikers, that’s why it’s important we sign two more,I think Martin Derby is available,
Richard
Monk is a football man, I am sure he is as decent as the next man in football but he was given a chance to get himself back in to management at Leeds with a one year contract plus a one year extension.
Nearly got them in to the play offs, ownership at the club changed for the better (?), they invoked the extension and were to negotiate a long term deal.
A chance to kick on at a big club club – big crowds and catchment, trophies in the past.
He resigned. A football man when all said and done.
We do have a problem, forget the goings on which are being discussed. The key issue will be who next. If, as we are led to believe Gibbo wants to keep staff, he may struggle to get a new manager in and by default Agnew stays in place.
It is possible a new manager accepts keeping Agnew and co but if so he will leave either now because his nose is put out or in November because it just isn’t working.
There is the option to settle on Agnew, invest money in players – we have the purchasing power to bring in some decent players and still have money in the bank. See how it goes, if it goes well and we go up, that is what Burnley did.
If it doesn’t work out a clean sweep next summer when the club has been sorted out with a very big budget in place.
We have to remember a good part of the back room staff have gone and we don’t know what is in place for recruitment etc. Maybe Gary Gill has the knowledge to get players in and those who left just boost the bottom line rather than being a loss.
Just alternative scenarios.
The recent revelations have the hallmark of a John le Carre novel. I can understand why the Gazette, if knowing the facts, didn’t disclose them earlier, and I can also understand the players were in a difficult position, but one would have thought that Ben Gibson might have conveyed to Uncle Steve what was going on. Perhaps SG was made aware of the situation but had to choose the right time to rectify it!
However SG has now made the appointment of a new manager very difficult with his stance about the merits of Steve Agnew. It is understandable that any prospective manager would wish to bring in his own team, people he trusts and is comfortable working with.
We had this situation years ago when Martin O’Neill was interviewed, and if SG doesn’t show some flexibility this time I fear that any approach to Monk or Wagner will fail, leaving him no alternative than to appoint Steve Agnew.
Here’s one for ya.
If it was possible ,would you take Dyche.
I have a feeling Gibson must have asked?
Toxic choice!
Simples
The problem with the Conservatives IS the Conservatives*
The problem with the Boro IS the Boro.
Executive decision making is flawed resulting in chaos and failure.
*Nice to see Cons on 43% Lab 38% today. British people considering policies not smears?
Upto 20 000 police jobs cut since 2010 (Corbyn’s fault). 1000 troops on the streets – Police Federation chairman predicted so 2015, PM (Home Sec Thersea May) said scaremongering.
Theresa May ‘Strong & Stable’? No! Completely unfit for office.
gt
I doubt it.
The 300 approaches, come on you lot, I will be back in a couple of hours.
We have to remember that Monk apparently did not want to continue at a club where Victor Orta was being lined up for a significant senior role. Maybe we can empathise with that after yesterday’s revelations…
It’s Monk’s career and future where he goes next, and may even involve moving his family. He would want to start on the firmest possible basis and with the best possible chance of success.
His own backroom staff know exactly what his approach is, exactly how he wants the team organised, prepared and trained, they believe in it and there is mutual trust. If he does not bring his own people he is then faced with getting his ideas across to a new staff, who he has to hope will buy into it all and put it across to the players.
He also may feel loyalty to his own staff, he will not want to leave them unemployed because he resigned, and we can understand that.
Things went wrong at Boro and in this business as in others good people get caught in the fallout. I really regret that, but Monk or anyone else has to be able to start on the best possible footing.
Ian
What would you call a Lurkin hat-trick?
A clutch of lurkins?
Strange how, at the beginning of the week there were very few managerial options then someone resigns and the dominoes start falling over offering yet more options.
Steve Gibson has a job on his hands to get this right.
Monk is OK by me and, I shudder to say it, even ‘Big Sam”, I’m not sure about Pearson though.
What will be will be etc.
UTB,
John
Is it a coincidence that when all of the Spanish contingent have left, the Gazette starts leaking stories about “he” done this “he” done that and “ones of our own” suddenly start moving from villain to heroes. It reminds me of various work places when someone has left, they became responsible for everything that went wrong during their time.
A few weeks ago we were all saying that we will never know the truth because of confidentiality clauses in people’s contracts that prevents them for exposing what went on, yet suddenly things are “leaked” to the Gazette, question is by whom. How many times have we watched dramas or series on TV were the real villain switches the blame to deflect suspicion from themselves and MFC is the biggest soap opera going at the moment.
If I was a decent manager, there is no way I would come to MFC and agree to retain Agnew, Woodgate and Downing. How long would it take for “ones of our own” to start undermining the manager and suddenly there are “no show” performances on the pitch again.
Will anyone ever really know what went on, I truly doubt it but in my opinion, the only way to resolve the problem is to bring in a new manager and his own back room staff that he trusts. I believe we have the nucleus of a very good championship side with some good young players, who in my opinion will get better and increase in value but will be forced out of the club by some of our English players/staff.
The above is purely my own opinion based on things I have heard from within the club. I am really worried that the wrong decision by SG will damage MFC beyond repair and we will never see Premiership football again at the Riverside and we will be back to 10 – 15000 crowds at games.
Come on BORO.
I warned you
Exmil
All the dirty washing in public does the club no favours especially everyone pointing fingers at each other when none of us were there. Those who have left are the obvious villains and targets. It takes two to tango, one group in one corner whispering in Spanish, another group whispering in English.
Monk is in the thoughts of Watford and Palace, both in the premiership, Monk comes from Bedford, maybe he would prefer being in the South East. Not a done deal.
Pearson, not every ones cup of tea.
Agnew, the man in possession albeit a temporary appointment.
My bones tell me that if we haven’t got a man in place next week it will be Agnew, according to the Gazette preparations are under way already. In which case it will be a holding operation until October by which time we will know our fate for the season.
I think Monk was raised up in Torque, started playing there before switching to Southampton and later Swansea. He started to coach/manage in Wales, too.
I quite fancy Monk but it might be so that he is heading South East to look “beyond Leeds”.
Up the Boro!
Ian
I agree, especially with your first paragraph.
Ken
I wonder if the Gazette boys are taking a little bit of glee in kicking Karanka and co? They deserve but I suspect there noses were pushed out by the club including Gibbo.
Anyway, tittle tattle elsewhere. Clayton may be a target for Orta at Leeds. Ex player would go down well with Leeds fans, Seems unlikely given the gossip about the Spanish Inquisition. If it did happen it would undermine all we are currently hearing.
Palace keen on Monk.
#daftquid on a round robin, Pearson to Sunderland (5/1), Monk to Palace (25/1), Agnew At Boro (12/1)
Total stake £7, profit over £2000.
Other odds are available.
I’ve been trying to make sense of some of the latest revelations from the club this morning in the context of whether the club are now actually in a position to make the right appointments…
https://diasboro.club/2017/05/26/boro-must-make-the-right-appointments/
I do enjoy this forum, but will be pleased when our managerial appointment is confirmed and my attention can turn more to summer sports.
The football season finishes tomorrow with the FA Cup Final although I can’t get overexcited about a London derby.
It would be great if there was a similar forum to this one covering my favourite summer sports of golf, cricket and Rugby League.
The BBC forums are usually full of snide or abusive comments from bloggers who cannot accept opinions that differ from their own. We all have our own opinions and suggestions, and we are very lucky that on this forum we are tolerant of other peoples opinions, whether we agree with them or not, and can join in healthy debate without recourse to abuse.
I congratulate Werdermouth for setting up this forum, and all contributors for the standard of debate. It is just disappointing that there doesn’t appear to be a forum of a similar standard for other sports.
Ken
Please feel free to discuss other sports on here, I take great delight in talking cricket but not too much because it disturbs the others sleep during the summer.
Well, Ian, what a great one-day international cricket team England have assembled this year when no place can be found for Jonny Bairstow. Hopefully what is England’s loss will be Yorkshire’s gain.
I do find it bizarre that the England hierarchy prevent their players from playing for their counties when England have no match. I like the fact that Yorkshire have so many English
internationals, but surely those not selected for the eleven should be allowed to play for their counties.
Of course nowadays that situation doesn’t arise in football where in the two top leagues have no fixtures, although I can remember when the Home Internationals used to be played on Saturdays during the season when there was a full fixture list of League matches.
In fact during my national service when I was stationed in Lancashire I used to watch Man Utd and Everton on alternate Saturdays, and I saw Bobby Charlton’s debut for Man Utd because their centre forward, Jack Rowley, was playing for England.
Any way I digress. Back to cricket I will be pleasantly surprised if a depleted Yorkshire win the County Championship this year.
At the moment I am watching the golf from Wentworth and although I’m a big fan of Lee Westwood I’m sorry to see the decline of Luke Donald. I would love for Westwood to win a Major, but although he is playing well today I think it’s too late now for him.
I realise Rugby League is not particularly popular on Teesside, nor where you live, However my late wife came from Castleford and I used to watch them regularly, and the current team have taken the sport to new heights with their speed and tactics, even thrilling Rugby Union followers. They are favourites to win the Grand Final and Challenge Cup this season.
It would be wonderful if Boro’ could display such flair next season and get promotion, and stay in the Premier League but in view of my health approaching my 9th decade I doubt I would be here to see it.
Well said Ken. Fair play to you sir.
Ken
There is so much football can learn from other sports and vice versa. We will have plenty of chats through the summer, there are others who will join in.
When you lot say
Cr—et?
Are you talking about croquet ?
I wouldn’t mind bashing a few balls under the hoops too!
I think every college at university had a croquet lawn. I have to say that was different to being back home in Dormo! I only played a few games when there, but you should know that it was by no means a gentlemanly game. It was a “stab you in the back” sort of game where, if there was an opportunity to smack the opponent’s ball into the undergrowth 50 yards away, it was taken…….