The cult of the manager, its contents and discontents

by Si, posted in Uncategorized

Sometimes looking the part can be more than enough. Simon Fallaha explores managerial image and how it seems the answer to everything… until it all goes belly up

The contrast between the two head coaches during Chelsea’s 3-0 win over Boro at Stamford Bridge was extremely interesting.

Antonio Conte, an Italian legend, the animated magician who crafted a title for the previously faltering Blues in his first season in England. A saviour and hero for his visible passion, confidence and charisma as much as his dedication to the football.

Steve Agnew, the… er… coach. That’s it, really.

No touchline expressions out of the ordinary. No big interviews on detailed dossiers or on how much his family loves the area. No continental appeal. Just a football coach assigned with lifting a free-falling side shorn of all confidence and cohesion.

Many a fan wants their coach to be more than a coach. A figurehead. A symbol of promised, or delivered, progress. A cult figure. Management is as much, if not more, about personality than football in this media-saturated world.

Remember when Tony Mowbray came to manage Boro? It took just one sentence to bowl us over.

“This has always been my club ever since I was a little boy… I can still smell the Bovril at the back of the Holgate end.”

At that stage, and as difficult as the first two months or so were on the pitch, the football didn’t seem to matter as Boro’s identity and eventual belief was restored by one of their own. Eventually, and sadly, Boro freefell, Mogga’s halo slipped, and Aitor Karanka arrived.

And again, albeit in a different way, here was someone with the makings of a cult figure. A protege of Jose Mourinho. A native of the World and European Champions. A player and assistant coach at the one and only Real Madrid. Someone who would build new foundations at Boro and take them to the next level.

Less than a year later, “little Boro” were scoring twice against mighty Liverpool at Anfield, losing only after a marathon of penalties. The fans, players and coaches had done the club proud in a unifying, courageous showing that inspired Boro to continue challenging at the top of the Championship.

But, to paraphrase Eamon Dunphy, there was a consequence: the story of Aitor Karanka and Boro was no longer that of a football coach and team. Tactics and team selection were irrelevant.

Karanka’s transformation from ordinary coach to cult leader was effectively completed that night. And with it came an undeniably joyous and momentous journey, but one where the most dissenting of views about the football and the coach were not welcome, lest they burst the bubble.

The facts from Anfield that night reveal that Boro failed to beat a weakened Liverpool team. The facts of Karanka himself, soon to be initially exposed in an ugly fashion at home to Blackburn, reveal that beneath this likable family man, imperious looking leader and seemingly smart tactician rested a volatile explosiveness, the worst aspects of a control freak who couldn’t handle his big plans being derailed.

To me, at least, the horrible naughty steps, costly hissy fits and not-entirely-explicable omissions could be forgiven, if not forgotten, so long as the momentum and results were the right ones. Which they were, mostly, for two years. But, far too often, it was progress of the most sterile kind, with an emphasis on defence ahead of the attacking principles that Mowbray had worked so hard to restore.

So why, for so long, was this overlooked?

It’s only speculation, but I think the answer is simple: after years in the wilderness, our favourite men in red were being taken seriously. The value of being shown the limelight by someone who’d seen it repeatedly, the pleasure of saturation media coverage for the right reasons before and after big cup ties, the sentiment of being made to feel important with a Real Madrid alumnus in charge… it was too much to resist, despite clear signs that all wasn’t well.

And all really wasn’t well, as early as a 0-0 home draw with Bournemouth in late 2014. There are so many ways in which a result like this could be, and was, rationalised: they were a good Championship side, they were top (and eventually won the league), they were on a long winning run, and it wasn’t as if Boro didn’t have their concrete chances to win, namely Adam Reach hitting the bar. Most of all, we were “only Boro”: nobody expected us to be among the promotion challengers, and we had plenty of time to put things right over the course of the season. So surely we were only being realistic.

The flip side of the argument suggests that no team should settle for a 0-0 draw regardless of the circumstances or the quality of the opposition. And it’s equally reasonable to argue that managing expectations is an easy way for limited coaches turned cult leaders to retain their Messianic status in the eyes of fans, minimising upset when the team doesn’t win, sentiment overlooking reflection. When all is hunky dory, cult leaders will feel like they’ve all the time in the world. When it isn’t… well, March 2016 and January 2017 say it all.

Karanka may argue that despite the overall defensive intent, there were more than enough sublime passes and goals to hint that they could indeed achieve something more with the right time. And that Boro were often just one more chance taken, one more good final ball or one fewer defensive slip away from better results.

He’d be right. To a point. But the trouble with Karanka, and many a cultist, is that he and his teams repeatedly seem on the verge of transcending the very good to the truly brilliant, but they never really make it – the team are too deeply embedded in his personality and ways to make that extra step. If so much goes so well for so long, the cultist may feel he has no need to change, and therefore both he and the club will be less prepared when things do go belly up.

Many a “cult manager”, and Mourinho falls into this trap too, is equivalent to a parent who wants to indulge in the privilege of guiding his child for as long as he possibly can, unwilling to truly accept that the child must grow and learn. Because of that, said manager is danger of becoming increasingly aloof, trapped in a cloud. The once inspirational personality transforms into something more oppressive. Insecurity and neediness come to the fore, the desire to be repeatedly reassured of how “great” he is fatally taking precedence over the club and the players.

It is only when he is very badly burned that he appears to learn his lesson – and even then, the relief is only temporary. At the time, I praised Karanka’s comebacks from unwelcome expulsions, naughty steps, hissy fits and terrible performances as a reward for being patient, as all supporters who love being in line with a cult do. But they were equally torturous and frustrating. Karanka could be perceived as someone who did thoughtless, mean things, then “made up for it” with a giant sentimental gesture that planted our head in the clouds for a while. Hull and QPR at home, and to an extent Bolton away, were the epitome of it, memorable finales drawing a veil over painful turgidity. In other words, he was as much a “hero” for “bouncing back” as a “villain” for digging the hole in the first place.

Criticism of Karanka did seem horribly extreme – if you can’t enjoy winning, and being promoted, then there’s something wrong, isn’t there? – but he made his own bed by seeking the limelight to the extent he did. Like his mentor. When it is clear that preserving image and pride takes priority over the well-being of the club and players, there is no other way for the cultist but out. That is when it dawns upon even the coach’s fans that their one-time could-do-no-wrong hero is, after all, fallible, and that the dissenters might just have had a point after all. That, as the more cynical of us may say, you can fool all of the people, but only some of the time.

A lesson to be learned from Aitor Karanka’s tenure is this – as appealing as basking in the upward mobility of the cult of personality might be, it is our job to retain a level of objective judgement about what could be better. Without, of course, going overboard.

208 thoughts on “The cult of the manager, its contents and discontents”

  2. Simon

    Nicely written and reflects your newly acquired position of Senex.

    AK in my opinion had a plan and come hell or high water he was going to stick with it. Problem was that although it worked in the beginning he couldn’t evolve. Be it team selection or substitutions there was zero flexibility. He even complained that beatin Swansea 3-0 was a poor performance.

    Such stubborn inflexibility is only going to lead to defeats.

    As a small aside, I recall posting a small skit of he and Leo in conversation, where AK chirps merrily how all the players believed in him & his footballing ‘philosophy’. Leo simply replied ‘Yes, boss!’

    For my reward I was told I was being childish or some other descriptor. Not long after AK & Boro parted ways. I wonder if Aitor still hears the words ‘Yes, boss!’ echoing throughout the night as he sleeps restlessly, longing for the time he can bask in the glory of being a manager again?

    I hear there maybe a job goin up the A19. I hope Giggsy gets it!

    🙂

    2. Sparta
      Please, stop dissing A K
      We had his services and made a mess of it, boy, did we.
      Thanks to the rule of omerta by the Gazette and anybody on this blogg who refrained from speaking out, we blamed him for players who were not prepared to embrace winning football, then tried to get him fired, It was not his duty to please the players, it was their duty to please him.
      Now that it has become public, we can all see the no shows in any big match which came along

  3. As I have said before, there is a charge sheet and eventually the cons outweigh the pro’s. The table never lies.

    On the previous thread I talked about the problems defensively where the two man shield didn’t work , the switch to a three worked for a bit.

    The crux of the matter is that he couldn’t change the way he did things, he didn’t have the players to play like Spurs but the system didn’t allow him to play like Burnley.

    There we are, Spartak and I agreeing again.

  4. It’s like when a number of people argue a position , let’s say five strong characters over three others who maybe pragmatic or at least experienced.
    The strong characters force their position,that has some merits but is unproven and requires a big change ,
    During the course of the change it becomes obvious there are problems it can’t work.
    What happens then is ,the strong characters wIthout admitting it failed ,make excuses ,they become somewhat passive,the others now have to grapple with the changes that are too far gone.
    This was the Boro changing room, you can decide who the strong characters were, and the results since January prove my point.
    Bearing in mind for three seasons progress had been made.

  5. Simon, a well reasoned, thought provoking article.

    Karanka’s problem was that it became apparent that he believed that he was always right and that no other views had any validity. That attitude leads to autocratic and dictatorial rule rule that doesn’t tolerate any criticism or dissent and that eventually ends in the loss of respect and failure.

    For a manager to earn respect he needs first to recognise that he or she doesn’t know everything. Once that hurdle is overcome the manager needs to acknowledge that there are other people in his club or company who will have valid opinions, sensible suggestions and empirical knowledge of aspects of the work of the club or company that are not running as they should and of which the manager is unaware.

    A good manager will want to hear from these people because they might have something to say that, if implemented, can help the manager improve the performance of the club or company. The manager of course has the final.say in what happens and will usually discount many of the suggestions put forward, but the fact that the manager is open to other people’s’ views generates respect among the players and staff and builds morale.

    Of course there are many other attributes a manger needs but the unshakeable belief that Karanka showed in his infallibility was his key weakness. When that belief was questioned by others (whose views may or may not have been right) as it was during the Charltongate weekend he couldn’t handle it and threw the now infamous wobbly.

    The wobbly terminally damaged his relationships will most of the players, probably with some of the staff and maybe with the Chairman. This damage could never be repaired and the effects have festered since then and have resulted in the disastrous performance in the last few months and the drop back into the Championship.

    Were people happy to ignore the warning signs during Charltongate and beyond or did they persuade themselves that it would all turn out fine if nothing was done about them?
    Maybe the majority of people in the club and fans were happy for Karanka to stay because of the success he had brought in the previous seasons which is understandable. But the warning signs were there and things were never going to be fine in the end. They never are once the genie is out of the bottle.

    1. Boroexile
      None of that makes sense
      If we had fired him after Charlton we would not have been promoted(there goes 170millon)
      The row happened after the players(perhaps three) decided that they knew better
      Any club that does not fire those players at once, will suffer the tortures of the damned, always.
      We (that is the supporters, were in a good place, a few special matches , we were not disgraced in any of those matches, the critics were kind)
      Its true that the players had got into the habit of not turning up when the chips were down(which I’m sure you will agree is not to be encouraged)
      It’s also true that our forwards had the most annoying habit of wasting any chance that we got in front of goal by the simple expedient of quickly hammering it miles over the bar(or of course, the oldest trick of them all, going for the near post on the understanding that the keeper would never expect that. That worked out well.)
      As for AK saying this or that, hmm! That’s a difficult one, as he definitely does not speak English, no fan ever heard him(except you, of course)
      At no point was there any attempt to fix the attack, and buying a job lot out of the bargain bin, and saying sort that lot out AK is not, and never will be the answer.
      The hiring of a job lot of locals as a back room team, is the logic of the lunatic asylum.
      From going down as a team in control, but with the wrong tactics and short of goals, we are now going down out of control with no tactics(unless you consider “just do the best you can lads to be tactics) and still short of goals.
      Every fan can keep an eye on AK. I have no doubt that whoever gets him can look forward to a bit of fun especially if they are struggling now.
      If you permit yourself to think outside the box, this entire affair has been the most appalling failure of top management.
      And I , for one would be taking a close look at the set up at the training complex, they are too remote and need never meet the fans, no matter how bad their behaviour.

      1. Plato, I beg to differ. If he had been fired after Charltongate we would have been promoted as champions rather than limping over the line after a series of uninspiring draws on goal difference. What’s more, we would now be celebrating another season in the EPL.

  6. In any betting shop there is always an expert who by using a combination of a horse’s bloodline, the ability of the jockey, the form of the trainer and the going on the day, can tell you exactly why the winner of the three thirty was the winner of the three thirty.
    Invaluable information at three twenty, but sadly only ever delivered at three forty five.
    The clues were there all along and perhaps when the club inevitably tell us that lessons will be learned, we should all take a cue from that. In our own ways.

    1. Good shout

      He wants to stay in the Premiership and is in dispute with the tigers of Hull ref pay so he could jump

      He did a good job in restricted circumstances

  8. On & on & on & on, on & on & on & on, this endless debate going around in circles to what went wrong or could’ve been done better + who’s taking on the poison chalice.

    In all seriousness, I wish I had as much time on my hands to be bothered. Whilst respecting all who contribute to this blog, I’ve got a million & one things more important in life than to spend so much time worrying about the past & the uncertainty of the futur of Bore O.

    God help me if her indoors ever suspected I spent less than a 10th of the time I do on this blog pondering on such issues.

    As mentioned a hundred times or more, it is what it is.

    I respectfully suggest a few of you (and you know who you are) give it a rest & hopefully be pleasantly surprised a few weeks down the line. If nothing else you’re wasting valuable drinking time.🍺

    Only woofing like 🐕 🐾🐾

    1. Oh bother… I spelt ‘future’ wrong. I maybe in serious trouble, but maybe not, so I might have to post at a later date when I know for sure. There’s definately plenty of ifs buts & maybees to consider.

    4. I really enjoy all of the informed and civilised debates on this blog and fully appreciate all of the time, trouble and effort that contributors put into making it such a success. And the regulars who put in so much unpaid labour for the pleasure, information and enjoyment of others (you know who you are) surely deserve a special vote of thanks. They certainly deserve better than the somewhat churlish suggestion that they should ‘give it a rest’ . The blog is required daily reading for me.

      I’m puzzled as to why anyone who is fed up with the blog should bother to waste his time by reading it, let alone waste more time by posting his view that it is all a waste of time. Stop wasting your time and do something you find more rewarding would be my suggestion.

      1. The voice of reason speaks again

        I too make reading this blog a daily occurrence and whilst my literary skills do not match those of my contemporaries I read and learn

        Sometimes we disagree but we let everyone have input and a say joined in our love and support of our football club

        I have never bothered to look at the EG premium service but think they have missed the point that charging for a premium option could not have come at a worse time for them

        I would have thought that the old blog actually brought more readers into the other articles contained within the EG.

        I know it was a labour of love for AV and it took up a lot of his time and it must have been some relief when he stopped the blog

        To be fair to the EG as far as I’m aware it was a MGN decision to start the premium service and fortunately we were able to migrate to our new home

        So what is my point?

        My point is I never im my wildest dreams expected that the new blog would actually become better than the old one!

        As you say Len we all know who to thank for their time and effort and it’s greatly appreciated by all who read it.

        Long may it continue

  9. Thanks for all your responses. I’ll reply properly in due course. For now, the quote that inspired me to write this piece.

    “To my mind the modern game elevates the role of coaches to such an extent that it is almost inevitable that the vast majority will crack sooner or later. The team and the players become less important than the man who fronts them.

    “…Football is and always has been a game between two teams. It is only with saturation media coverage of the game that it has come to be predominantly represented as a personalised conflict between two individual tacticians.

    “I think that it is important for the well-being of coaches themselves that they don’t fall for this. The structure of their week makes this very difficult. They have to front a once or twice weekly presser. They are interviewed both before and after the game. They pick the team and decide the tactics. And every nuance of their body language in their technical areas during the game is scrutinised for tell-tale signs of stress, emotion, jubilation etc. It’s little surprise that they themselves begin to believe in their own supreme importance in determining the fate of their clubs.”

    Thanks, Len. (You wrote that not long after Derby axed Clement.)

  10. 2 – 0 to the arse at least we won’t finish bottom and that is the sad thing about this season ” at least we didn’t finish bottom”.

  11. Excellent piece, Simon and much more substantial and elegantly written than my fumbling quotes. Appreciated your generous name-check nevertheless. Many thanks.

  12. Interesting article Simon and in some ways the cult of personality seems to be a necessary tool for many managers to allow them to do their job. It’s usually used as a way to create a persona of infallibility and to side-step the need to be accountable when things go wrong – i.e. it’s rarely their fault and it’s almost the same language as politicians in that the first rule is never admit to mistakes.

    Though it’s a tough job to have your decisions scrutinised on a weekly basis and be subjected to public interrogation by the media – even more so when your team are losing and the implication is that it’s your failure and your continued failure.

    Perhaps the most successful managers must find a way to deal with media that keeps them inwardly sane or at the very least privately detached and philosophical. I think those who can accept the fragility and in many cases serendipity of their positions are able to retain longevity in the game.

    It may well be that some managers just don’t have the personality to handle what comes their way and their careers could be short-lived. It’s also explain why former successful top players may not have that ability to handle the switch to management where they are no longer in total control of their own performance – maybe lesser players understand the difficulties of getting players to perform, particularly in the recent modern trend of cossetted footballers who rarely need to have to think beyond their narrow personal needs.

    So when Boro come to choose their next manger or head coach, then there has to be some evidence that they have the mental strength to handle the expectation now being made that we’ll smash the Championship – so no more meltdown managers please!

    1. Werder
      In view of the revelations from the snake pit,(and, I might say, the abject performance from the local lad a.k.a. our manager) it might be time to cut out all the rubbishing of AK. it does not look good and it is no credit to us as a club.
      We had a defence(a first in the history of the club for some considerable time)
      We had a god awful attack and were probably going to go down, so far so bad.
      We of our own volition, got rid of our manager, told some local oik to take over and sort it out (that worked out well) he, as you do, thought, well the big complaint is the defence,(no one seems happy with it) so I will break it up, and shove a Few extra bodies Up front(how difficult can it be?)
      We duly got our new manager bounce(right out of the premiership) and he certainly altered our amazing small goal difference, and how, now it’s all growed up and it’s quite a big boy now, practically as big as all the rest of the strugglers.
      In
      the future fans will say it was a myth the he was good at defence, because they have researched it and we let lots of goals In. Yeah, right.
      Sorry to hurt feelings but the way forward was to fire the Rebels, both players and staff, learn AK to speak English, and if we went down, start again with a clean sheet.

      1. Yes of course Plato I’ll be issuing a decree to fellow posters to cease any criticism of AK immediately – Though, if I may be allowed to bring you a little down to earth from your seemingly lofty viewpoint up in your Mt Olympian republic – In the absence of having the gift to run parallel realities where we can actual judge the same outcome under different circumstances, we are left to merely offer the logic of our own mortal opinions as we personally see it.

        So I’m sorry to break the news to you that I seldom see things as you do – So although you may be fond of putting people right, I don’t think you have the authority to think your own opinions are of far greater validity than those of anyone else just because you believe it that way yourself – so I guess you’ll just have to cope with people who sadly felt AK fell short in the end.

  13. Roy Keane fits this “cult of managerial personality” thing to a tee.

    The first season was like a fairytale of sorts. Relegated with just 15 points in the PL the year before, 2006-07 began with four successive league defeats after Keane had decided that management was too soon for him. But then he got a text from his sister…

    “Did you see Niall Quinn? You need to help him out.”

    Keane was just the figurehead and personality Sunderland needed to give them an instant lift, and so he did, surely exceeding his own expectations in guiding them to the Championship trophy and then PL safety the following year.

    It was when – stop me if you’ve heard this before – bigger names with bigger egos arrived, and the ownership of the club changed, that results nosedived and everything crashed and burned.

    A man who had criticised Big Jack for not being able to adapt (or was that his first ghostwriter, one Mr Dunphy?) couldn’t adapt himself. Relinquishing even some of the control that, despite his statements to the contrary, he’d clearly relished having, was not for him.

    This hints at why, to me, managers like Conte and Wagner are best judged in a year or two – if they hang around long enough. How many thought Ranieri and Rodgers were the best things since sliced bread before it crashed and burned for them? At least the latter has rebuilt his reputation at Celtic. It seems.

    Perhaps this is an indication of why Mourinho never builds a dynasty. He’s more of a Rent A Saviour, someone who comes in and gets a club winning and going again, before moving on/being sacked just in time for his reputation to remain intact. And then he sets out to “save” another team.

    1. I’m not clear on why Wagner is currently being considered for bigger and better things. He’s done well till now taking an unfashionable club to an improved league position from 18 months ago . . but nothing else yet. Interesting that he’s been touted by some Boro fans even though his team have only scored 56 goals this season, even lower than AK’s supposed uber negative Boro, and actually have a negative GD. His previous experience is with B.Dortmunds reserves and his win % is lower than AK’s even after our current stat wrecking season. I guess he’s inherited some gold dust from his more famous former partner and media-bothering best mate Klopp, now where have we heard that before ?

      2. I quite agree. I mentioned this before that Huddersfield don’t score many goals.
        In fact 22 of their 25 wins have been by only one goal and seven times they have conceded at least three goals.

      3. Billog
        The reason Mr. Wagner is in demand is simple, organisation, you cannot fake it, and he is very good at it.
        The Champ. Has been dominated by the super two, who got in front and stayed there.
        The fourth was about ten + behind, but the top two did not have it easy because Huddersfield were about three points behind and stayed there, like a bad smell, never budging.
        When the play offs were safe, Mr. Wagner dropped ten players, and left them out until the play offs.
        He is currently in the final, if he makes it to the Prem, we will have a bit of fun watching how he copes.

    2. If any manager came to Middlesbrough and led the club to the Premier League title, as Ranieri did with Leicester City, he WOULD be the best thing since sliced bread. It wouldn’t matter about any crashing and burning afterwards – especially if someone else came along part-way through the next season and took the club to the middle of the table and then into the Champions League Quarter Finals.

      It is impossible to over-estimate the achievement of Ranieri. To some people he restored romance to the game. His team, from a middle-sized midlands club with an unremarkable history, beat the Big Clubs, the well-funded “elite”, to the coveted trophy. It will not be forgotten, and if it happened at Middlesbrough, Ranieri would never need to worry about having to rebuild his reputation anywhere else. Nor about ever having to buy a drink or pay for a meal anywhere near Teesside.

  15. In mitigation for Aitor, it reads now that as well as being inhibited by his own flaws, he was at the centre of an internal malesrtom- an unco-operative toxic shambles of competing self interest groups of internecine conflict.

    Where was Bausor? Where was Gibson? There’s no surprise we had a meltdown or two and then subsequently relegated!

    1. Sparta
      It’s a relief that someone is discussing our situation as it is, rather that how they think it is, thank you for that.
      How the top people can escape blame for a complete failure of responsibility for the misbehaviour of, in order, the recruitment team (that would be entering the dressing room and interfering in team matters)
      The players, not doing what they were told to do, arguing and generally being a pain in the neck, and, of course not turning up when a big game came along
      The complete failure of supervision when all this was going off
      The press, who knew of this and kept omerta, when they knew our survival was on the line.
      Anyone who knew about the complete shambles and did not shout it to the roof tops
      The chairman, his job, his duty, he failed us, big time, a clear case of clear out before Christmas, and AK left to get on with his job in peace
      What was his idea getting rid of AK and leaving the lunatics in charge of the asylum, he did not really think that they had more idea than the manager, did he?

  16. To be frank, the whole thing was a mess. I’m far from alone in thinking that Aitor could have handled, say, Dimi, Nsue, Albert, Rhodes and Nugent a lot better than he did, but the toxicity that emerged between those on Aitor’s side and those in the players’ camp was frightening. Shades of the end of Mogga’s reign and those who clamoured for, I think, McDonald, Bailey, Luke Williams and Reach when they weren’t playing.

    Sometimes, the cult of personality works both ways. We may not have been Aitor Karanka FC, but we were certainly not Jonathan Woodgate/Stewart Downing/Albert Adomah/Jordan Rhodes/David Nugent (etc) FC either, and a fair and decent balance needs to be struck for the sake of unity and restoring upward mobility.

    It wasn’t.

    1. Simon it is never about the players, never, and to suggest that it is would be the greatest mistake we could make.
      The players do as they are told. Period. There is no other way.
      In any group of players there will be a few nutters, and a few gentlemen, plus a few who are short a few marbles, add the wrong un’s and you have a toxic mix.
      It must be a combination of the Manager and the management including the chairman.
      What has happened is quite shocking, particularly the bit about the recruitment person.
      We have come across as a club of idiot’s, and when AK gets another job with a decent chairman who will look after him, we could have red faces, because the players will not change, one having got rid they will be eager to repeat the dose.

      1. Oh, Plato… There were those among us who decided they wouldn’t watch AKBoro again just because, say, Rhodes and Nugent weren’t starting. Making it all about two forwards when there is an entire squad and coaching team out there in need of our support is bang out of order. But that’s how it felt. Sometimes.

        Such toxicity – “Trust the manager” or “If he doesn’t start those players I’m not coming back”, never in between, is more damaging than anything.

        To a point it happened under Mogga too. For all Scott McDonald’s foibles he was naughty stepped when he had the highest strike rate of any then Boro player.

    2. Simon
      Afraid those you mention will have to go, once they have got away with it, they are out of control, and no manager should have to live with them in the dressing room.

  17. Excellent stuff from Simon, Werder and Len as usual.
    Like others have said, I only wish I could write so incisively and eloquently.
    It seems to me that Football is no different to every other aspect of life these days. The media want to scrutinise everything to the “nth” degree and put their spin on it.
    Everyone under the media spotlight is a “celebrity”, whether or not they want to be.
    It’s a mad mad world.
    Werder raises an interesting point in that SG, having said that he wants to smash the championship, has set the bar extremely high for the prospective new Manager, so who has the confidence and credentials to take up this challenge?
    We wait with baited breath.
    Finally, I have to say that this blog is essential reading for me so I’m extremely grateful to Werder, Simon and RR in particular for the enormous effort they put in. Also, to Ian and Spartak for their lively exchanges, which keep me amused. To Len, OFB and other long time regulars too numerous to mention, thank you all. I don’t go to pubs very often now, so I appreciate being in the company of you all in this our virtual pub,

  18. Simon

    I suspect there is a bit of back filling going on about the problems. We will never know the true truth but there seems to a few variations. It is never one parties fault.

    How about going for Mrs Doubtfire, aka Steve Bruce, Aggers stays in place and yet more access to Villa players. Maybe Albert………….

    🙂

    1. Ian
      No chairman who values his club could ever have allowed the lunacy to go on in his club, and to let his manager go when he knew he was having to sack the troublemakers anyway, what did that achieve(well we know what it achieved, demotion, maybe that was what the players wanted, comfort zone and all that )

  19. A good read Simon, thank you. Having been stuck hospital for two weeks, off world if you like, the season seems to be dragging its feet to its inevitable close, the inevitable having already happened. I followed the blog and the comments on my phone and it made for distressing reading, certainly it hasn’t been holistic healing that’s for sure.

    Now I’m home with a weeks worth of monstrously strong antibiotics before another scan and my hopes are pinned on Boro selecting an appropriate new manager.

    Thank you everyone for the comments and the reading, it’s Boro in the DNA and blood, although they did pinch quite a lot a daily basis!

    Where do we go from here? As long as its not tweets or Facebook comments from players saying how fantastic Mauritius or some where else is I can cope.

    As Ian says above why are they showing the death throes on TV. Perhaps they don’t like us.

    Once again thanks for the reading everyone.

    UTB,

    John

      2. Thanks for the good wishes and I stiIl feel knackered, it was an infection of the pelvic bone and it hurt. Now they have to find out why it happened.

        Now it hurts because no alcohol… for three weeks making a total of five. I thought I’d be able to drown this season and the gastric band, but no, the fates have conspired against that too.

        UTB,

        John

    3. John,

      Hope you’re soon fully back to normal. I’ve missed your always thoughtful contributions.

      Steely’

      Much moved by your kind comments. Many thanks.

  20. Still back to Giggs. He is the betting favourite at the moment. I don’t necessary want him as a Boro manager but he has been the number two at Man Utd and a care-taking manager there, too. Closest to a “name” I think and more experience than Schteve Mac had when arriving. But let’s hope we get someone even better and experienced.

    Anyone else waiting the season to end? I am absolutely waiting to hear the name of the new manager – and I hope we hear that ASAP after the match at Liverpool.

    But the close season could be more interesting than for a long time. Not a close season at all in a way. Great.

    Up the Boro!

        1. Great stuff again, not. Keep going around in circles then talk about cricket. I’ll get a good night’s sleep out of it at least.

      2. I don’t know about Yorkshire but my favourite CC is Ingleby Greenhow CC. Any other IGCC fans put here?

        Ok, YCCC might be my second favourite team but to me they sound like the Man Utd of cricket?

        UTB!

  21. With our last match being selected for live coverage, does that mean we will get some more pennies into the transfer budget ?

    Come on BORO.

  22. Jarsue

    I remember shortly after the play off defeat pictures from flights to Dubal etc. It did make me snort.

    More importantly I hope you improve rapidly.

    🙂

  25. A point that, I think, missed my piece, is an example of just how unhealthy great times under a cult hero can be. And yes, my example is Big Jack once again.

    For nearly all of his reign, especially in 1990, Ireland’s manager couldn’t do a thing wrong and if you criticised him in any way you were almost certainly alienated from your peers. I’ve read that naysayers got genuine abuse, even from those that didn’t follow football – it was something of a with-us-or-against-us vibe, with no middle ground. The national enmity towards the one journalist who stood up to Big Jack and his legend (and I’ve quoted him) was, frankly, terrifying.

    Cults can unite, but they can also divide.

    2. Simon
      You are wasting your sympathy on Mr Dunphy , he was that familiar figure of the press, the man who has spotted that the Emperor has no clothes, he though that he had discover the mother lode. The Irish of course were well aware that big jack was giving them a bit of fun(well, a lot of fun) and were not amused to find that a not very bright lower league scuffer thought that he could rain on their parade, by the simple expedient of dissing Jack, big time.
      When one thinks about it, he had a brass neck, saying, in effect, that the Irish team had no right to make every effort to qualify for tournaments, simply because he did not like it.

  27. OFB

    The Torygraph did an article yesterday about the three relegated teams and the likelihood of bouncing back. I could download a link but it is not a mainstream article so it has to be paid for. Luckily I could read it.

    Hull were rated 4/10, Boro 8/10 and Sunderland 7/10 – having read the article I was surprised at Sunderland getting 7.

    The biggest strength of Boro was the ownership and squad strength having been there and done it before.

    Hull did well given the ownership problems with the Allams looking to sell and the players they lost in August and January. They think it is unlikely that Silva will stay.

    Sunderland have problems with ownership as well, their squad was bloated and weak.

  28. The statement by Steve Gibson came as a big relief to me. It was vital to know that he still has the fire in his belly to push the club forward with full determination and to achieve an established position in the Premiership.

    Are Boro attractive to successful managers? Managers will come to clubs where they can expect spending power in the transfer market, with support, loyalty and commitment from the owner – Steve Gibson is our strongest asset. Jokanovic might be a possible target now, and Wagner might be one after tonight – they would be my preferred choices.

    SG also spoke well about the fans and it was important to stress the superb contribution of so many of them during a very disappointing season. As one of the older and more sedate (to put it kindly) fans, I would also thank the highly committed sections – they have been awesome, especially at the away games. A club cannot really be in despair when we have such an indomitable spirit among the supporters.

    While in a grateful mood and looking for positives from the season, thanks to the guys who have produced the excellent leading articles on this terrific blog which rose from the ashes of Untypical Boro – ‘If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine’.

  29. On a growing list of managerial candidates, one recognisable name is missing: Roberto di Matteo.

    I’m not at all convinced about RdM but I am surprised that his name hasn’t been mentioned. There is the Peter Kenyon link, there is the fact that he is available (I think) whilst he has some lower League and Championship experience with MK Dons and West Brom. He seems the right sort of age and profile for SG too.

    It is hard to gauge his ability as manager as his not inconsiderable achievements seem mostly to have been built by a predecessor: Ince at MK Dons (RdM got them to finish third in League One after Ince left for then Prenier League Blackburn), Mowbray at WBA (Championship runners-up to Newcastle, bouncing back to the EPL at the first attempt with 91 points and 89 goals), AVB at Chelsea (FA Cup & Champions League double, largely built on Mourinho’s time).

    The noises coming from Boro are that they believe us to have a strong squad for next season. If that is the case, then perhaps the best fit is someone with a track record of taking such a squad and delivering in the short-term, as di Matteo appears to have done on three occasions thus far.

    I can’t honestly say I’d go for him but I’m not seeing an outstanding candidate on that growing list. In any case, often the right manager is not the most talented guy but the one who is the best fit. Perhaps Roberto di Matteo is that man. He’s certainly worth a mention.

  30. PS

    Simon – remiss of me not to thank you for your thought-provoking blog piece.

    Indeed it was your thoughts that provoked my post, as I’m hoping that SG looks beyond a “name”/cult and identifies someone who is primarily a good fit.

    1. Well you oils have to include The mags Chairman Ashley and our own Charlie Amer

      Never known a builder be paid for doing a project before it was built md then never finished !

  33. Thank you Simon as ever, and to the other nice contributions within this thread.

    As to the next Coach or whatever, I am pleased it is not me that is choosing. Whoever SG picks, some will not be happy. In fact there may be alot not happy ( especially on here if it was Giggs)

    But whoever it is the proof is in the pudding or in our case “promotion” I just wish SG had said a little less. As somebody said, he has raised the bar to a height that we may struggle to jump over.

    I do agree with some of the journalists from Norwich, Newcastle and Villa, and their comments in the EG. Experienced Championship players are a must and a deep squad to cover all those games and inevitable injuries that occur.

  34. I was also pleased to hear SG put his finger on our main problem – the need for flair and pace. I don’t think we were that far off survival this season, we had a strong defence and effective defensive midfield. Up front there was the potential to score goals, it was in creating enough chances to win more games that we fell down (yes, we were very defensive and didn’t support Negredo, but we are talking about enough points and positive momentum to get over the line to 17th place).

    There simply weren’t any effective alternatives to Ramirez when it came to playing with dynamism and delivering a killer pass.

    I think it is sensible that Orta has gone, he did not seem best equipped to recruit the sort of players we need for the Championship, and he didn’t solve the creative problem this season. According to AV’s recent analysis, we should have the money – now we need to spend it wisely.

    Mark W

    1. We need to get Adrian Bevington back at the Boro a true fan with executive experience with the FA and Welsh FA who organised their World Cup campaign

      Football expertise and a Boro fan

  35. I did some reading on Charlie Amer’s meetings with Big Jack. I’ll have quotes from that at a later time.

    Re: The Cult Of The Chairman… It’s funny you bring that up, Spartak, because I was thinking about Gibbo and how long he’s been untouchable because he’s one of our own, he’s patient with his managers etc. Like Aitor, I suppose, his strengths are also his weaknesses.

  36. I see Walter Mazzarri and his back room staff are leaving Watford, the favourite to replace him is Marco Silva (Hull).

    Come on BORO.

  38. Just catching up with the comments since it’s been a scorcher today in northern Germany at 29C (a sure sign that the football season has outstayed its welcome) so I managed to ‘give it a rest’ for a few hours plus I’m still trying to finish my windows before the school holidays start, which is now in an unbelievable six weeks time!

    Firstly, may I wish a speedy recovery to John (Jarsue) and glad to see him back posting – and it must be tough having to watch the last five weeks of football without the numbing effect of alcohol – definitely a sobering thought!

    Also thanks once again to Steely for his generous comments and also to Len, OFB, Ian and others who continue to acknowledge the work on the blog done by the team – I think we can now probably say the transition phase is probably completed.

    I just need to break the news to Mrs Werder that it may be a little longer than the temporary arrangement I initially envisaged – though I’ll need to take stock over the summer as to how we move forward in the Championship next season with the prospect of a regular two games per week and the anticipated reduced TV and media coverage.

    Also thanks for some interesting links, which have given me some food for thought and a few possible ideas for a post – I listened to yesterday’s Tripe Supper this morning while doing some work and AV has also pinned his colours on Steve Bruce as his favoured option for pretty much the seem reasons we covered – he also discounted Giggs as a credible option as it’s too risky and noted that the bookies favourites last time before Karanka was appointed were Mike Phelan and Ravenelli – so it doesn’t usually mean much other than people believe what they hear on social media.

  40. Anyway

    Reach and Rhodes on the bench and that cant be right. AK is a disgrace!!

    Sorry, watching the Owls!! Apologies.

    I would be grateful if you could forward the sticks, as you no longer need them to beat AK with, I could use them to help burn garden waste.

    Cheers in anticipation.

    Werder

    Weather wise we are in transition, I remember going to a cricket match in August where many matches were rained off but the football reports talked about the hard bouncy pitches. Luckily I was in a Bass hospitality box at Trent Bridge and Boro beat Wimbledon 1-0. And Yorkshire beat Notts CC.

    We posters need to get our thinking caps on to try and take the load off you, RR and Simon.

    We could always run a cricket blog. Hands up in favour, so me then!

    As we tend not to talk politics can we please leave the general election to one side. Brexitt was a bit different because it was cross party and affected many abroad.

    1. I’ve been conversing with a footie friend of mine tonight and latest news is that form his sources our new manager should be wrapped up straight after Sunday!

      That would rule out Wagner who’s just got Huddersfield to the play off final so who’s left?

      Pearson NO

      Pardew NO

      Hull Boss – talking to Watford apparently

      Bruce my shout from way back

      Giggs – strongly fancied by the Boro players

      Or as I keep saying Jurgen Klinsmann!

      Funny as I was writing that the predictive text came up with Kevin’ Keegan!!!!

      That would be a surprise wouldn’t it ?

      1. Oh the footie friend is an ex Boro player and is going to be
        Involved with them next season just to add a bit more substance to the rumour !

  42. Boroexile

    It was Bernie Slaven not the gazette, should it seem a good idea it would be ‘as reported in the Gazette’ and a Tripe Supper would suddenly appear.

  44. Ian,….concur on how do we take the load off Werder, RR and Simon, thinking ahead to next season.

    May be we will just have to have a reduced number of Headliners. If there is a mid-week game may be we will just have to roll it over from the previous Saturday, with somebody posting a mini headliner in the current one.

    With regards to TV coverage we can have a whip round for Weder and buy him a subscription for the Championship abroad that is coming our way.

  46. Bernie Slaven – on Neville & Giggs

    What a load of total abject NONSENSE!

    ‘They are both winners. Alright, Giggs has no experience, but they’d be great together. I mean look at Salford Utd!’

    God’s teeth, how has it come to this? Is this the best we can attract? One total failure from, where was it Valencia? And he only got the job coz his mate was the owner. Giggsy! Have a word with yourself for heaven’s sake Bernie.

    Then again, no track record of success, no leadership skills, abject lack of communication skills- yes, sounds perfect for the Boro. Of course we’ll ‘smash the Championship’.

    Let the good times roll!

    🙁

    1. Sparta
      Didn’t he suggest that we could play some of the lads who had not been getting a game all season a Liverpool(shudder) never trust an ex player.

  47. OFB

    Rumour has it that Claude Puel will be leaving Southampton and they would be interested in Silva.

    If an announcement were made after Sunday you would expect it to be someone not in a job at the moment otherwise it would be ‘given permission’ to speak to them. Maybe that is the announcement. There again that might be the announcement.

    Ex boro player? Mmmm. Higgie or Coops would fit the bill.

    2. Southampton would fit wouldn’t it and I know Boro were trying to follow the Southampton model after talking to Spike David Armstrong on Saturday. Lovely fella but he’s bigger than me these days!

      Ref the Ex Boro Player err NO NO and I’m not saying !

  48. OFB –

    Interesting rumour from your footballing friend that an appointment is imminent – though a bit worried that they seem to be heading down the road of either Giggs or Klinsmann – neither of whom have any knowledge of the Championship.

    You say the players are keen on Giggs – but I don’t think that is necessarily a good reason to choose him.

    Also why would Klinsmann be regarded as a wise choice? He only ever managed Bayern for one season and managed to lose ten games and was sacked and that was ten years ago. Maybe in a Director of Football role it would offer the club a higher profile and help to bring in players but I can’t see it working in the day-to-day grind of Championship football as head coach.

    Also if an announcement is going to be made on Sunday then any manager under contract will have to had a compensation package agreed already with their former clubs – which would probably mean they would have walked already if the club knew about their intention to leave – so Steve Bruce would be unlikely.

    So on that basis, if your friend (and soon to be Boro employee) is correct then I would deduce our next manager is currently out of work.

    1. I must confess after our chat I’ve been going through all the options like you have.

      Klinsmann doesn’t like flying apparently and that was a problem when he was USA manager. So on that basis he wouldn’t want to go to our far flung matches although in the championship there are a lot of clubs in the north this season.

      It’s sounding more and more like Giggs isn’t it ?

      It’s also been rumoured on twitter that McCaren to return as Director of Football!

      I’m losing sleep over this but please not Pearson or Pardew!

      I can understand the Giggs thing as because we are Boro we need a name to attract players the way Robson could. Maybe Bernies dream team is not a dream and he knows something!

      Everyone was tight lipped on Saturday but hey if my buddy says the players want Giggs they also wanted Agnew and look where that’s got us/ Relegated!

      Well know by this time next week hopefully

      FatBob

      1. There does seem to be quite a lot of noise around Giggs – the worry is that someone knows someone who knows something and perhaps the idea is trying to be sold to us.

        The other thing I’ve heard a lot of in the last few days is that Boro are looking at having a Director of Football – I suggested in my pre-match piece that if the club go down he road of having an head coach and want some kind of continuity and better recruitment then this is really something Boro need.

        An experienced high-profile Director of Football would also act as a check on the head coach’s people influencing decisions – which is perhaps one of the structural lessons that has been learnt.

        But Giggs and Neville? It’s less of a guarantee of achieving promotion than other options I’d suggest.

  50. I would suggest some people to write a post on any matter Boro and football related during the close season. This would help Werder and Simon during the low season and they would have their holidays coming up, too.

    I am not so worried about next season as there is a lot of matches coming regularly. And that will be nice time anyway, if we are going to smash the league, I am expecting us to beat Luton in March and clinch the title a month before the end of the season.

    Just hoping we get the right manager first. Up the Boro!

    1. Perhaps a post from you entitled

      Thoughts from Scandinavia the football support for the Premiership in all the Nordic countries extending to the Artic Circle!

      Plus a note of promising players our scouts should be looking at

    1. I think the “Sunday” announcement is purely because he will have promised Aggers “until the end of the season” rather than reading anything too deep or cryptic into it.

      If its isnt Aggers that suggests that whoever it is is already available and waiting in the wings.

  53. Werder

    Oddly that thought ran through my mind, this is getting spooky.

    Apart from that there is something just troubling me, I get the feeling we may be heading for a figurehead to oversee the status quo.

    Aggers and Woodie plus OFB’s ex boro player all in place with a big name to make it sexy.

    A bit like those VW Polo’s slammed to the ground, tinted windows, spinners, woofer system in the boot, big chrome exhaust, pearlescent metallic paint. It is still a one litre Polo.

    Hopefully in this case it is 2+2=5

  55. Werder

    I don’t know if 2+2=3 was an accident or a piece of intuitive brilliance. I suspect the latter.

    2+2=5 would mean we end up with something greater than the sum of it’s parts.

    2+2=3 would imply the inverse, clearly more Boro than my equation.

    Just deducing like.

  56. For the life of me, I cant see what the attraction is where Giggs is concerned, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest he’d be any good.
    He would come with considerably less coaching experience than McClaren or Karanka did.
    The rumour may not be true of course, but if it is I’d love to know Steve Gibson’s philosophy behind constantly appointing inexperienced managers.

  57. Werder, I would love to have Mogga as a director of football at Boro.

    But still no clue on a manager or head-coach as I think he will be called.

    When shall we see the new shirt for next season?

    Up the Boro!

    1. Fact not fake news

      Just heard it in the radio this afternoon that the Yorkshire party are meeting this afternoon to talk about devolution and be. A self governance

  61. “If he had been fired after Charltongate we would have been promoted as champions rather than limping over the line after a series of uninspiring draws on goal difference. What’s more, we would now be celebrating another season in the EPL.”

    Ah, Boro Exile.

    I usually like your colourful, thought-provoking posts, but this one really saddens me.

    No one can legitimately say that Boro “would” have won the Championship or “would” have stayed in the PL without Karanka at the helm.

    “Could”? Almost certainly. But not “would”.

    Not when there is no explicit, concrete evidence of this.

    Furthermore, you’ll find that more than half of the last ten games of 2015-16 were wins, not draws, and you could even argue that Michael Keane, the woodwork, wasteful finishing, a wrongly disallowed goal and a freak Brighton equaliser prevented further wins.

    We may have “only” held on for a draw in the end, but that was all we needed to do. Many, many teams only “do enough” to succeed. It happens. Because would you prefer “not doing enough”? I will admit that the team could have done better, but all the disappointments can’t, or at least shouldn’t, take away the good memories. One needs balance.

    My argument – and you can agree or disagree with it all you like – is that Gibbo and the hierarchy pulled Aitor and the team back together and reminded them all about what was at stake, inspiring them to inject their game with more grit, persistence and muscle. It wasn’t all about Karanka, Nugent, Gaston, Rhodes or one particular manager or player – it was a collaborative effort, at times unnecessarily scrappy, and at other times exceptionally frustrating. But, once reminded that there was now no leeway, we – Boro – all reunited to pull in the right direction again. And it worked.

    Even in the PL, we still had a great showing at the Emirates, the second half at the Etihad and the King Power to look forward to, with goalkeeping, the woodwork and refereeing denying us two wins out of three. That we didn’t win was a sure sign that AKBoro’s luck had finally run out.

    I’ll be rational. I’ll say that while I don’t agree with your view, I understand that one’s ability to reason can be coloured by their likes and dislikes. Eamon Dunphy has even admitted to writing highly subjective, unreasonable match reports because he cannot hide his passion and frustration in the heat of the moment. Case in point: his slaughtering of Mick McCarthy when Ireland lost 1-0 to Holland, even though he knew, objectively, that it was wrong to point the finger at anybody for the goal. He was, alas, too infuriated by Big Jack’s sidelining of David O’Leary.

    But he – like Aitor Karanka, note – is only human. So I understand.

    And I understand that I can’t be entirely objective either, as I tended to sympathise with Aitor for much of his tenure. Because even when the results were the right ones, it did feel like he could not win.

    (To be frank, who wouldn’t sympathise with that?)

  62. Love all the chat about “the cult of the manager” I hope that I have spelt that right.
    Guys, any club who hope to achieve anything will only consider cult managers, why this sudden desire that we hire some steady eddie with years on the clock, a promotion fifteen years ago, and unluckily sacked from his last two jobs.
    Remember, and never forget, every season seventeen managers avoid relegation, and four achieve the champions league,. Nothing to do with ability, those figures will happen every season, so beware when hiring a manager, for most of them are worthless at any level
    By the way, this blog would be happy with the most useless group of wannbee managers that I have seen for many a year.
    We should be looking for someone as good as AK, so the bar is set pretty high, and before you all get on the blog you had better consider the following.
    He always fielded a solid defence
    He always had us in contention.
    He got us into the Prem. (and 170 million)
    And be had a back room staff who were worthless, and enemies in the dressing room,(who made a habit of no turning Up for big games)
    And to cap it all, he could not speak English.
    Follow that.

  63. Colours to the mast time, then.

    I’m distinctly underwhelmed by any of the bookies’ top 40 managerial options.

    So here’s my two against the field.

    I give you either of the two Roberto’s. In order of preference, Roberto Di Matteo or Roberto Martinez.

    Both are considerable human beings- bright, articulate. media savvy, and possessing a high degree of both tactical astuteness, and social and emotional intelligence. Crucially both have positive footballing philosophies, which will provide exactly the kind of necessary counter-balance to the negative anti-football philosophy that we have all seen quite enough of, thank you very much.

    They have extensive knowledge and experience of both British and European football whilst still being comparatively young.

    There are downsides to both of their CV’s, but they have far more going for them than any of the other candidates that are currently being touted.

    And even if they were unsuccessful in getting the Boro back up at the first time of asking I think we would be able to look forward to seeing some very attractive attacking football with either of them in charge.

    I’d back them (with Steve Gibson’s money) against any of the other lot.

  64. plato – I think that’s a decent argument you put together, but right now I for one want a manager who is going to put some flair into the team and making the experience of watching Boro more enjoyable. Particularly as now we’re back in the Championship I’ll get to see many more live games, particularly away.

    I believe someone did some research once on football managers success and the trend which showed up was managers tended to be most successful in the first ten years of their careers and then it faded away.

    So there’s a balance to be struck between a man with Gareth Southgate type experience and employing a has been. Plenty of scope between the two I would have thought.

    1. Nigel
      Defence is easier to manage than attack, therefore to produce an attacking team is very difficult(to say the least) the biggest teams know this and throw money at the problem.
      To go for an attacking team in the Champ. Is, in effect trying to go up in a blaze of glory(lots of 4-2’s) probably destined to fail with all the recriminations entailed.
      AK done good, no question, as shown by the revelations coming out of the snake pit, we have come out of it all looking like idioms, to lose a decent manager, and surrender our place in the Prem. was not wise.

  65. Andy R

    I should have acknowledged that you had already given a shout for Di Matteo. Not the first time that we have seen eye to eye.

    1. Yes I like them and I believe SG does too

      It was rumoured that one of them Martinez was being considered during last season as a plan A and instead we went with plan B and Agnew.

      It would not surprise me to see one of these emerge as manager and I hope one of them does because frankly the others do not fill me with much confidence

  66. Di Matteo is more likely than Martinez who is the national manager of Belgium, I cant see an international manager leaving his job with some of the best players in Europe to manage Boro.

    I admire Martinez football principles but his organisation of defences has always been questioned. You Ignore one part of the game at your peril. You can play good football and be defensively sound.

  67. Elsewhere, the FA is going to punish divers where they gain a penalty or someone is sent off following the dive (red or second yellow).

    You don’t have to punish many before it hits home.

    2. I still believe the offending player’s team should also be docked 1 point, as suspending the player after the event does nothing to redress the advantage his team gained as a result of his cheating.

  69. There’s little in Martinez’ managerial record to suggest he would be suited to the grind of the Championship.
    The same is true of Di Matteo, tho’ winning the European cup means he has failed at a higher level than Martinez.
    The romantic in me will never forgive Di Matteo for Wembley.
    The pragmatist in me suggests if we are to opt for a former Villa manager, Bruce would be more suited.

    I posted recently SG seems to have been operating at a distance with an eye on his eventual retirement from all but symbolic connection. Club president, perhaps.
    Maybe Woody and Downing were employed with a side brief of keeping him informed of club goings-on in SG’s absence. Sadly AK’s tenure was not the precursor to a smooth to transition of control to a new party. And now SG is resigned to sorting out the mess. Again. This theory also suggests Woody and Downing are going nowhere.
    Every time SG thought he was out, he’s pulled back in.

  70. Di Matteo, no, no, no no, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
    Positive attacking football? Yerjokinarenya?

    He is the epitome of an anti-football coach. If you don’t believe me watch Chelsea’s performances in the semi final and final of the Champions’ League in 2012.

    I have experience as a fan of him as a manager. My german team is Schalke 04. He lasted 7 months with us. He was responsible for the worst display of football it has ever been my misfortune to watch. That’s saying something as a Boro fan. I’m talking about Schalke’s 3-0 defeat in the derby at Dortmund in February 2015. Words cannot describe how abysmal and negative this performance was.
    Please, please please … not Di Matteo.

    1. Steve

      Are you saying you wouldn’t like Boro to appoint DiMatteo?

      Just to put the record straight like.

      Are you sure ??

      Don’t worry he won’t get the job trust me

      1. Crikey – you do seem VERY sure, OFB.

        Any chance of a clue HOW big a name we are talking about? Surely not a Sir Alex? Arsene? The chap who managed the team which is STILL the Premier League Champions (until this season ends)? Dilly Dong!

        1. Just pleased Giggs is out of the running

          Interesting that today’s it’s reported it could take another two weeks ?

          Could it be the playoffs which are delaying things?

          Nor what was being said a. Implement of days ago we expected an announcement Monday

  71. Len,

    Though I mentioned di Matteo, I don’t fully endorse him. It was more that I was surprised at his omission from the lengthy (and uninspiring) list of candidates.

    Di Matteo’s relatively short CV has as many ups as it has downs and the ups seems to share the thread that they all came with someone else’s players and foundations.

    When asked to push a club forward or turn it truly around, say at West Brom once promoted, at Chelsea post Chanpions League final or Aston Villa (rebuilding job), he seems to have failed each time and quite badly at that. I think that’s the reason he hasn’t lasted more than eighteen months or so in any managerial job.

    On the other side of the coin, he does seem to have had short-term, but genuine, success at clubs where the foundations he inherited are strong. Do Boro fit that description? The club hierarchy seem to think so, which could be good news for RdM.

    So despite flagging him up, I’m afraid I’m not as bold as you are in championing him. If the squad is as solid as we all hope it is then I see him as a good bet for a season but probably not much more. If we need a rebuild then I’m afraid I couldn’t trust him.

    The problem that SG has is that the safer options (Bruce, McCarthy, Warnock?) are very uninspiring. The more exciting options are bigger gambles, in some cases, surely too big (Giggs).

    Were I Steve Gibson, I think I would focus on promotion at the first attempt and put any medium or long term strategies to one side. That would rule out anyone without experience of the Championship and success at a club expected to win (which is what concerns me about Wagner).

  72. Looking at De Matteos’ record on wiki, it does not look that impressive, managing that is. Especially at Villa.

    This waiting is like living a nightmare. If it goes on much longer I think SG just may be the safer option than those being touted.

    Giggs and Neville. Got to agree with Spartack there. Has to be someone with sucessfull, proven Championship experience on his CV

  73. Just seen a shout for a penalty in the Foxes v Spurs match. Jamie Carragher dismissed it saying Vardy got 6 or 7 penalties last year and refs have sussed him out.

    It was Frannie Lee like where he threw himself in to the centre back and hung a leg out, threw himself to the floor then appealed.

    Under the new rules, as it wasn’t given as a penalty or a sending off offence by the defender Vardy got away with it. The problem with that is if it was given Leicester could have scored and then Vardy punished later, you cannot undo the goal and the points.

    Still needs some thought about the new rules.

  74. Now another incident about diving. 4-4 on aggregate between Luton and Blackpool in the play off final second leg when a Luton player goes down, looks a clear dive but the ref gives the penalty.

    Under the new rules the player would be disciplined but not before Luton were through to Wembley.

  75. I reckon that Steve Gibson has already made his appointment and it will be announced probably on Monday.
    He did say that he wouldn’t make an announcement before the end of the season because it affected others. Whether that involved another club was not clear.
    I can’t believe that negotiations haven’t already taken place and terms agreed, otherwise it would probably take a week or so to complete them.
    There have been varying suggestions and opinions of preferences on this forum and also by journalists, but I’m fairly sure that whoever is appointed there will be more dissatisfied fans than happy ones.
    Furthermore, we won’t know whether whoever is appointed will be a success or not. We’ll probably have different opinions, that is the purpose of this forum, but the only certain outcome is the uncertainty.

  79. Why are the Gazette journalists writing artilcles about the bookies odds on who will be the next manager, what odds on our getting promoted, etc. For me it’s just lazy journalism to fill space.

    What difference does it make? When Strachan bought his Scottish contingent the bookies had us favourites for promotion; before this season started they had us about 6th or 7th favourites for relegation and as recent as last December about the same.

    If I was interested I’d check the bookies website. I’m getting more disinterested in the Gazette articles; perhaps I’m getting more like Victor Meldrew every day.

  80. So Ben is not for sale. That is good news but you never know when someone will squillions comes knocking at the door especially a big club.

    The thought of £25-30m plus and a loan back would need some thinking about.

    The marker will be what happens to Keane at Burnley, an big money sale to ManU would set the marker.

  81. The key point with Jokanovic, Bruce, Wagner or Monk is that they know the Championship and the demands it places inside out and they know how win games at this level. They have a very good knowledge of most of the clubs and the players and would have ideas for suitable targets to re-build the squad.

    They would have credibility with our players because the evidence is there that they can do the job.

    Bruce did not do brilliantly after taking over Villa this season, but he did not have a close season to prepare the club and build the squad he wanted. He has a track record of promotion success and would presumably be happy to work with Agnew.

    Why go for a Zola-esque choice who might struggle to understand what is needed?

  82. A good deal on here about why X, Y, and Z are rubbish, and shouldn’t be appointed. Not too many positive suggestions. I don’t think anyone should be too critical of any decision SG may make unless they have come up with what they think is a better idea.

    SG has come in for some flak over his previous appointments, but I don’t recall their being too many criticisms at the time they were made. Indeed most seemed pretty sensible and even imaginative. Strachan, now universally regarded as the worst, got the job after the huge balance of opinion amongst fans was for the appointment of someone with solid managerial experience rather than yet another rookie. Strachan, at the time, ticked all of the boxes that had been empty under Robson, McCLaren, and Southgate, and had as good a reputation and record within the game as anyone.

    Criticism of the Strachan regime is well justified, but criticism of his appointment lacks any kind of authority unless it was made at the time. Being wise after the event, which is what most criticism amounts to, is little more than a form of self-gratification.

    1. I criticised Strachan at the time as his Managerial record was less than impressive apart from Celtic which lets face it isn’t exactly difficult unless you are John Barnes. I know he had a Cup run in his CV but everything he touched ultimately seemed to signal a downturn.

      On the next management appointment, with SG’s previous, my money would be on Bruce. Like Mogga beforehand we bought all his duds and then reunited them with the Manager!

  83. Interesting interview with Grant Leadbitter in the Independent. It would seem that Karanka’s English was a problem at times.

    Also the fact that the problems before Charltongate were never reported at the time. We were continually told in the press what an “amazing” team spirit there was by both Karanka and some of the players in interviews they gave to Gazette reporters.

    There seemed to be a determination by the players to keep their concerns “in house” during a poor run of results of only 3 wins and 12 points in the 9 matches prior to the defeat at Rotherham which preceded Charltongate.

    We don’t know what was said between Karanka and the chairman or what the chairman conveyed to the players, but it worked as we then went on our unbeaten run to promotion.

    However, it appears to me that despite promotion being obtained the rift between Karanka and some of the players remained.

  84. Len

    I remember Vic developing the idea of a forge where Strachan was building men of steel to replace Southgates wimps.

    Forest, Derby and Leicester fans were adamant our new signings would get us promoted by Christmas. I also remember Vic later commenting that the last pieces of the jigsaw were due to be put in place after the sale of O’Neill but that he was injured in August.

    That all morphed in to Stricken as things went rapidly wrong and he rightly left.

  85. I’ll follow Len’s lead and nail my colours to the mast: Having looked through all the possibilities that I’m aware of, Jokanovic would be my choice for manager.

    He has ten years experience as a manager – fresh but not green – with two (and a bit) years in The Championship. His record in the Champ is strong, leading Watford to promotion and taking Fulham from relegation candidates to play-offs. And playing some good, attacking, stuff too.

    To me, Jokanovic is the closest blend of someone who is a safe pair of hands but with some interest and excitement too.

    Within the list of names, Steve Bruce represents the safest option for me and would be my second choice.

  87. Good post len.

    I won’t be making any suggestions as to who the next manager should be as I don’t have a Scooby, but I’d like to see someone with championship experience and success on his cv.

    Whoever is appointed will have my support………even if it were Giggs! Because once the deed is done I believe its time to get on with it and look forward.

  88. Ken,

    I agree. We have a certain arrogance at the minute that we can take our pick of current Championship managers. That is unlikely to be the case for all sorts of reasons.

    If memory serves, SG has never once poached the manager of another club. Tie that in with that fact that an announcement is due very soon and it leads you to the conclusion that our next manager will be someone currently unemployed (at least as a manager).

    So Hignett it is, then.

  89. Ken

    Thinking he would be good for him to manage Boro is a different kettle of fish to him wanting to come and being able to talk to him.

    The owner is Shaid Khan who owns the Jaguars in NFL, we don’t know his stance on Jokanovic, for all we know it might be he thinks he has failed. I believe his brief was survival 2016/16 and top six this season so he has achieved that.

    Chairmen and coaches are ambitious, chairman also look after the business side. Does his contract have a break clause? Is it a rolling contract.

    It is only speculation and a bit of fun, takes the mind off the actual football.

    The other issue is what happens to the rest of the staff at the club? Will the new head coach/manager have to use the existing backroom team?

  90. Great post as ever Len.
    As each candidate is suggested he is quickly shot down by other posters and usually for good reason. Perhaps Gibbo goes through the same mental process every time the job is vacant and goes for rookies not because he can can control them or are his mates as has been occasionally suggested, but because faced with choosing between experienced and flawed (and often failed) or the unknown and potential he has favoured the latter.
    Like Andy, Jokanovic (who my spell checker just tried to turn into Joke Novice!) would be my choice, then Bruce but I don’t think either are likely.
    Whoever Gibbo chooses, I remain confident that if nothing else, the decision will be taken with the best of intent and that’s all I can really ask.

  91. I keep repeating it but SG has to work in stages. The first requirement is to win Promotion the second requirement is to stay up!

    Its harsh, hard, cold and cruel but I doubt whoever we recruit will be the same person who achieves both objectives so I wouldn’t stress too much over long term. We may be lucky and get one Manager who can do both but the experienced seasoned managers with Championship experience generally fail in the Premiership. Eddie Howe is the obvious exception and even Dyche needed a few goes. Whoever he is if he gets us up give him a chance but be prepared to jettison quickly.

    1. I agree that Eddie Howe would be a great choice, but he tried managing Burnley and they would probably have stuck with him but for some reason (maybe homesickness – l don’t know) he returned to the south coast and Burnley didn’t do too badly in appointing Shaun Dyche as his successor.

      I think that Eddie Howe is happy at Bournemouth and when he decides to move it will be to a much higher profile club than Boro. Nevertheless maybe Steve Gibson has tested the water!

  92. I think the idea of Jokanovic works well. It would not require too much paint to be able to rename the Bosco Jankovic virtual stand ….

  93. What about the other Watford manager with the grey beard. I remember thinking that he was good, someone else’s team too. Or am I mistaken

    1. Quique Sanchez Flores.

      I also thought he did well at Watford. I’m not sure what his knowledge and appetite for the Championship is though.

      He’s currently manager of Espanyol.

      1. Despite the pro propaganda they (Gazette) still seemingly had their noses pushed out when the Premiership came to Town. Sadder still was that forum’s like this one’s predecessor raised questions on spirit and things behind the scene not being quite right. Had the real truth come out back then would we still be in the Premiership? We will never know but I think we would be in a better place right now. I suspect that the new incumbent will speak very good English as will any of his new back room staff joining him.

  95. Talking of gazette noses out of joint. Video of jonno and phil discussing the gibson staying story in the mail. Steve Gibson told somebody that ben was staying and it certainly wasnt ‘boro fans writing about’ that the much vaunted premium service offers. Cut and pasted by fans for boro fans, but we dont charge for it. Ofb is more in touch and that isnt an insult.😊

  96. I think the deal with Ben iss stay until at least January and see how we’re doing

    If we’re doing badly by then we would let him go

    Mind if an exorbitant bid came in for him it would be interesting to see what the club would do

  98. Is it just me or is all this talk about a new manager next week a bit premature?

    My take on SG’s interview was that he indicated there needed to be change at all levels across the club but he did not specifically mention the managerial position.

    I think that we have all assumed that this is the case given that he also indicated that the changes would impact upon people at the club and elsewhere. He further indicated that changes would be made after the end of this season but was not specific as to time.

    I accept that we do need to not only change the manager but also his direct support staff but would be surprised if there was any public announcements after the game at Liverpool given it is an away game on a Sunday. I would also be surprised to hear anything on Monday unless he has a manager lined up who is currently not in post, which would preclude the likes of Bruce, Wagner, Monk etc.

    It may well be that on Monday or later in the week that an announcement is made as to the managerial position and that various candidates are being considered but there again perhaps OFB knows a lot more than he is disclosing!

      1. All I do know is that the Boro players are expecting something to happen early next week but then they could be winding each other up

  99. KP

    It is all a bit of fun to distract us from the coming championship season, personally I will take it as it comes.

    OFB

    The idea of squillions followed by a loan back may happen but I think it more likely he stays or goes.

  101. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of Garry Monk as the next manager. He strikes me as someone the players respect and appears to get a tune out of them, possibly getting more out of the Leeds/Swansea players than could be expected. I also think Boro in their present state would be a better propositon than Leeds with the Boro in my opinion having better resources/ sizeable transfer kitty and a better core championship squad at his disposal

  102. The sale of Ben will pay for the academy for the next fifteen years.
    On another point, uncle Steve said the club is well run, the question should be which part,explain,
    Really, for ten years, we’ve gone backwards in many ways, and now another cull of backroom staff,not good for me,a new administration takes time to inject their phylosophy,by that time others bipass you.
    Huddersfield , Reading are you kidding me?

  103. I think it’s a good point about getting a manager with championship experience.
    Bruce would certainly fit the bill and he’s worked with Agnew before. I would be happy with that.
    My personal choice at the moment would be Wagner. He’s been succesful in the championship and german coaches are well schooled.

    Tony Mowbray, anyone? He did well on a shoestring in his spell here. I wouldn’t begrudge him a chance to try again with money to spend.

  105. Steve H

    Not Mogga, let him be. People said about Strachan that anyone could win the title in Scotland. Well, not everyone.

    Just leave him where he is.

    As for who else, I will leave that to Gibbo. He may not get it right but I have no control so my view doesn’t matter.

    1. Latest think I’ve heard tonight is there are expected to be a lot of comings and goings but nothing specific it’s all very hush hush now for obvious reasons

  108. There will be a lot of interest in Ben, Uncle Steve’s line in the sand is a statement of intent. I suspect it will be sands that can shift.

    It will come down to the best balance for the club

  109. Made enquiries of the club this week regarding the new iFollow facility and thought I would share the response which was as follows:

    Good afternoon Kevin

    Thank you for your email regarding iFollow. As we’ve not been in the Football League this season we’ve not been privy to any discussions regarding the iFollow service as yet. Once the season ends, we re-enter the EFL fold and will speak with the relevant parties to gain a greater understanding of the service the league are planning to offer fans.

    We are also investigating whether the EFL regulations will allow us to supply audio commentary free of charge next season. A subscription will no longer be required to access video content and we are hoping we can provide commentary in the same manner.
    Kind regards.
    Rachael
    Rachael Millward | Supporter Services Officer

Leave a Reply