Boro bus crash finally ended by Chelsea Dagger

by Redcar Red, posted in Uncategorized

When the Premiership fixtures came out last summer this was one of the first ones Boro fans went searching for and upon finding it we realised it was part of a very tough end to the season. All the big boys loaded into the final few weeks predetermined our fate. If we didn’t pick up points and wins during the season building a buffer zone these final few weeks would be punishing.

As foreseeable and predictable as it was somehow it wasn’t clear to AK and others at the club. Grinding our way to draws just about kept us out of the bottom three for the first half of the Season but as warned those fixtures were the bread and butter required for our sustenance. The list of those “lost” games is now too many and too repetitively boring to repeat but the consequence of attacking apathy had now left us with a mountain to climb at the home of the Premiership Champions in waiting. With Boro scoring 26 goals all season to Chelsea’s 72 the likelihood of any upset was remote to say the least with even bookies giving out generous odds of over 20/1 for an away win.

As if to mirror our season a Boro Team Bus Crash en route to Stamford Bridge was the prelude to the warm up. The Boro line up was probably what most of us would have selected meaning no Gaston. Chelsea kicked off with tempo and Guzan pulled off a brilliant save in the second minute to palm away a close range Alonso shot onto the crossbar thanks to Traore leaving his man. Five minutes later Alonso again lost Traore and put a harmless cross in this time. The opening minutes looked nervy but Boro seemingly settled down winning a corner and then Traore putting a deft chip in to Negredo that was cleared. That was as good as our evening got, Fabio nicked the ball from Costa 25 yards out but in typical premiership fashion a foul was awarded against Boro for this time Costa’s artistic impression. Luiz’s resulting free kick fortunately sailed well over.

Minutes later Fabio again picked up the ball and brought it out of defence but his resultant pass to Traore ended up with Adama hanging on to it for far too long and losing possession gifting Chelsea another opportunity. On twenty minutes George Friend managed to just edge Costa off the ball a shin-guard’s length from the goal line much to Diego’s displeasure and more histrionics. Two minutes later Fabio won possession yet again and tried to work the ball out but instead of running to provide an option, Adama simply stood in his way looking lost again and the ball likewise lost was then played to the other side of the box only for a Fabregas cross to come in and 1-0 to Chelsea as Costa slotted home past a despairing Fabio.

On Thirty three minutes Chelsea were dancing around in front of the Middlesbrough back nine about thirty yards out with none of de Roon, Clayton or Forshaw putting a challenge in and another identical cross to the Chelsea left saw another attempt from Alonso as they had been doing all night only this time with a goal blasted through the spread-eagled Guzan from close range 2-0. Friend and Downing had been keeping things quiet on their flank but Fabio had to do all the work himself on the right outgunned, out manned and out manoeuvred. Traore had reverted to wandering, looking lost, disconnected with what was happening around him, dazzled by the fairground lights again, brilliant footballing feet but an echo chamber upstairs.

Clayton and Forshaw were now simply being ignored by Chelsea and de Roon’s attempts to get forward inevitably thwarted by blue shirts led to another offensive movement and the pressure back on the Boro rearguard. Boro tried to mount a little pressure but in truthfulness it was too slow and predictable with no threat and inevitably petered out. The half ended with Chelsea toying with the back nine again and only Ref Craig Pawson’s whistle saved Boro blushes from an inevitable third goal as they sat off the Blue shirts just outside our 18 yard box.

There wasn’t much Agnew could do at half time, Barragan and Espinosa were hardly going to change the game nor was Guedioura or Leadbitter at this level. Gestede and Bamford were the only two options that may offer something different but that would require getting hold of the ball and retaining it let alone mount an attack. The second half kicked off and Chelsea grazed the crossbar within seconds. Boro won a free kick on forty seven minutes but managed to get themselves offside from a stationary ball.

On fifty five minutes Grant came on for Forshaw presumably in the hope that a Boro midfielder would maybe read the game and get a tackle in. Bamford also came on at the same time for the lad on the left dazzled by the fairground lights. A brief forty-five second cameo of Boro in the Chelsea half ensued and then normal service resumed with Chelsea toying with the packed Boro defence. So packed that nobody had a clue what on earth they were supposed to be doing and so it was that in a box packed with Red shirts Matic chested the ball down and 3-0.

Trademark static passing continued from Boro as no runs were made and no pace injected with balls easily read and cut out. Then on sixty eight minutes Grant unleashed an 40 yard shot that had Courtois getting down quickly to smother Boro’s only attempt. A minute later Costa went through with his studs on Guzan’s chest with Costa once again claiming he had been shot with a howitzer from the back of the stand, rolling theatrically in faux agony.

The next twenty minutes saw a lot of Chelsea possession with a little bit more Boro intent as Chelsea’s thoughts seemingly turned to West Brom and Friday night. With eight minutes to go Gestede came on for Negredo and that pretty much summed up Boro’s intent for the season. With two minutes of the ninety remaining Bamford received a yellow for taking down Alonso near the by-line which was a darn sight closer than Traore got to him all night.

And so Boro’s Premiership visit came to an inglorious end with barely a ball kicked in anger, well goal-wards at least. We came, we saw, we didn’t fancy it and never really gave it a go. Questions should be asked but they won’t, at least Ben Gibson gave an honest assessment of things after the whistle much to his credit. MOM were the traveling Boro fans who sang their hearts out for the lads.

229 thoughts on “Boro bus crash finally ended by Chelsea Dagger”

  1. Well at least the prolonged agony is finally over, where we go from here who knows. Personally regardless of what SG thinks of Agnew it needs a fresh face for next season that will hopefully excite the fans for one more go at the grind of the Championship. Over the years the fans have taken a lot of stick, but this season they have been the one shining light home and away. Right Steve take the bull by the horns and get on the front foot, don’t wait for a summer review, tell the fans your plans for next season whatever they are and do it quickly. As an aside, next seasons kit should be revealed shortly, can’t wait!

  2. Chelsea were never going to let that one slip and we looked what we were – second rate compared to the best team in the country. There’s no reason to be upset by this as Chelsea have ripped apart better teams than us. The slow motion car crash has been coming across all those games where we should have done so much better but couldn’t make an impression. i was tempted to start listing the recent ‘small margins’ such as Gestede’s headers vs Everton and Swansea, Ayala’s chance against Arsenal and the referee against Man City but the truth is that we just weren’t good enough against so many average teams.

    Rather than start immediately to talk about next season, can I suggest a few simple goals for the club for this year
    1. Let’s make sure that Dimi gets his chance to play in the Premiership
    2. Let’s give Fischer a run out instead of the empty-headed Traore
    3. Let’s do whatever we can to make a last day impact at Liverpool. We still owe them.

    Other than that, I must say that, for once, I’m glad that I’m on the other side of the world because the Southampton game is going to be a tough occasion. Will it be a defiant shout against outrageous fortune or will it just be a sad goodbye.

    Anyway, we’re finally getting to the end of a dismal season for the area and if Hull goes down that will be nothing – except for maybe Huddersfield – between Newcastle and Leicester down the ‘good’ side of the country. With the results of Darlo, Pool and York it has really been a totally lousy year.

    UTB

  3. Just a remark after a horrible season for the whole North East football (Newcastle excepted).

    Is our academy really working? Other than Ben, who else than him we have in the first team squad? Fry who doesn’t make to the bench. Others?

    I think Boro should do with more local lads in the first team. We should have a manager that trusts the young lads from the academy, too. For example Stee McClaren always had a couple of home-grown players in his team.

    Up the Boro!

    1. Jarkko

      Is this truely the same person who said he was going to enjoy ALL of the season come what may?

      Is this truely the same person who wrote consistantly, repetitively, ‘In Aitor we Trust!’ The very same whi placed his faith in SG and Neil Bausor to get it right & have a plan B?

      Now unfortunately we don’t have faith, rhetoric or spin to relie upon, we only have the EPL table that, as Ian says, never lies.

      Well back to the drawing board & back to the Championship.

      Happy Relegation Day!

  4. Thats it then – the spread sheet didnt lie and the table speaks for itself.

    Back home in 2 months – dont know what will be in the Boro shop but there must be something worth salvaging.

    Back to the Championship and our winning ways…..?

    Not more to be said really.

  5. Just like our season, my battery is going to expire and no time to charge up so a short one

    ERIMUS

    UTB

    Ps Weders next piece should be a play on Saints and Last Rites perhaps?

    UTB

  6. I was really upset last night

    Because the Boro got beat

    And I had them down for a win

    It means I’ve lost the exmil challenge !

  7. We start again!

    I noticed Leadbitter giving Bamford a bollocking last night on the half way line for not tracking back.

    This was at 2 down and Leads was still fighting!

    Perhaps we need him for another season in the championship?

  8. Good to see Conte applauding the Boro fans.

    Much talk amongst pundits about the quality of the squad, they seemed to ignore AK to some extent but he was part of it.

    Time for some reflection.

    1. Ian
      As we get far enough away from the scene to bring it into focus, I think we should stop sending the flack at AK .
      From the moment he arrived our prospects of escaping the Champ. Went up several notches. We seemed to become more proactive in the general nuts and bolts of the football world(something we had all but given up on)
      yet we never got the impression that he was regarded as some one who should be indulged and treasured. Rather the opposite.
      More later.

  9. Fear not o ye faithful unwashed devotees as all is not lost. We have SG ‘one of our own’ & Peter Kenyon who will step in to resurrect the fallen local giant, the same creator of local wealth and all round happiness.

    Do not forget, as Nigel confidently tells us, there is nothing amiss with the MFC executive. Everything is fine, trust in the internal inquiries, trust those who know better, put your trust in the professionals.

    All we need is patience, everything is fine, there is no need for change. Change brings chaos, change brings uncertainty, all change brings disaster.

    Now be good sheepies and get back in the pen or we’ll set the dogs on yer!

    Happy Relegation Day!

  10. Just looking at the club crests in match report graphic, I noticed yesterday was a battle of the heraldic lions, which normally are chosen as they symbolise bravery, strength and valour. Though if you cast your eyes a bit higher on the two managers it’s clear that Conte’s roar is true and fierce – where as Agnew’s looks a bit meek and could even possibly be even a bit meh…

  11. Just like to second the earlier post by Selwnyoz and in particular his comments regarding Dimi/Fischer and Liverpool which I am in total agreement with.

    Also OFB’s post re Grant Leadbitter is very valid as he seemed to spark a bit more intent into those around him and looked more positive than others when on the ball.

    Did SD break into a sweat? To me he looked totally out of place and provided nothing in the way of attacking intent. He clearly did not get on with AK which resulted in his limited game time but since AK’s departure and his return to the team he has not convinced me that he is worthy of his place.

    SD struggled last time to make an impact in the Championship and I do not consider he will be any better second time around. We need to offload, if we can, and free up his large wages which he has not justified/earned.

    I just hope the team gives the home fans something to cheer against the Saints as they deserve much better than they/we have had to suffer this season.

    It galls me that a small club like Bournemouth with no PL experience can be promoted and then consolidate. What does it say about MFC!

    1. KP – I believe you are right, that SD didn’t get on with Karanka. I am sure he felt he’d never get a fair chance with Karanka. But I think since Karanka went, with a couple of games as exceptions, Downing HAS played better than before. Not a stand-out star player, but an improved one. He MIGHT be able to do a job next year in the Championship. He is already in the squad. We might not buy him in if he was elsewhere, but since he is here, we should use him…..

      1. FD

        Downing is 33 this July. Another 46+ games season- has he got the legs?

        Leadbelter is 31. Midfielders less game lifespan? Has he got the legs for a 46 games season?

        Both have played over 400 compedititive games plus had various injuries.

        I previously suggested we sign Cattermole. He’s 29 now. He’s played about 250 compedititve games. An xperienced Prem player, leadership ability and highly motivated.

  13. Still thinking what might have been this season it’s certainly been one to forget

    What worries me is how Will We do next season?

    Burnley and Newcastle kept their managers when they went down and came back up immediately

    We look lost and bereft of ideas focus and purpose from the top down

  14. Spartak , anyone who thinks Steve Gibson’s management of the Boro is akin to that of the Venky’s at Blackburn is deluded. Boro getting relegated doesn’t make Steve Gibson incompetent. Jeez, when I read some of the tosh written about what SG does ‘wrong’ I wonder why the bloke bothers.

    So, its back to the Champ, well it won’t be a grind for me, I enjoyed the last couple of seasons there and will do so again if we’re contenders.
    I’d much rather be in the prem but the championship has its advantages, its intensity, two matches a week, being able to buy a ticket for an away match being two of them. Winning a shed load of games may be another.

    Two games to go and we can start the post mortem.

    1. I admire your optimism – this team won’t cut it in the Championship. I fear a Villa type collapse and for some inexplicable reason we paid £6m for one of their cast-offs who couldn’t hit a cow’s @rse with a banjo. This player couldn’t get a game in their Championship team and somehow Boro believed he could prosper in the Premier League? Beggars belief really.

      The sad fact is that the club is a shambles…the window dressing of Rockcliffe merely serves to camouflage an amateurish outfit which belies the chairman’s reputed business acumen.

      So I wouldn’t get too excited about an immediate return to the PL next season unless Gibson can overcome his loyalty complex and bring in a ruthless, Championship winner of a manager with some players to match those qualities. Agnew, Giggs et al are not the answer to Boro’s malaise and I will be exasperated if we find ourselves half way through next season realising we have made the wrong choice…yet again…

    2. Nigel, just to put the record straight, I didn’t say that Steve Gibson’s management of Boro was akin to that of the Venky’s at Blackburn. What I said was the the relegation of Blackburn shows what can happen if the management of a club is dysfunctional and that it should be seen as a cautionary tale.

      I can assure you that I am not deluded. If you look back over my contributions to this forum over the period immediately after Charltongate until now many of the things I forecast would happen have indeed come to pass. People who are deluded are defined as those who hold a strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. Maybe those who though that Karanka and maybe Steve Gibson could do no wrong are the ones who are deluded.

    3. Nigel
      Everything that SG does right is nullified by the fact that we tackle the transfer market like a supermarket sweep(anything and everything goes into the trolley, like, how difficult can it be)
      The fact is, the market in players is getting fiendishly difficult, and is not going to improve anytime soon.
      Teams that are very good at it will play you a break if you are an innocent ( we are an innocent)
      The big teams collecting a harem of youngsters, are in a position to control the market, and do.
      If you let us buy your young star, we might let you buy a couple of our young cast offs(at suitably inflated price of course)
      If you are in need they will try to sell you a dud(this applies to every club in the Prem.
      It is vital that you never stop looking for the hidden jewel. Do we do that? I’m not sure that we do.
      How did we miss the bargain of a lifetime (sixteen million for a player who cost nothing, and was trouble on two legs)
      All, I am afraid, the signs that we will not cause any ripples in the Champ.
      By the way, still no sign that we are aware of our need for a few imposing figures in our team.
      Do they watch football on TV.? The muscle play is fierce and effective, and the only answer is muscle.

  15. It is said that the Premier League is the best in Europe if not the World. Maybe, but only because it is ruled by money.

    Most teams look jaded by the end of the season, even Arsenal and Liverpool.

    Are there too many teams in the Premier League? Would we see more competitive matches if there were only 18 teams?

    I know. The clubs would not vote for less matches and less income.

    Would a salary cap as in both Rugby codes work? Well, in Rugby Super League we are seeing a very competitive league this season. Will Castleford Tigers emulate what Leicester City did last season? They are everyone’s favourite second team as were Leicester City last season.

    Of course the top foreign players wouldn’t be here if there was a salary cap, but would that be a bad thing? Would it help our national team?

    I have not got the answers, but the pundits are already saying that Newcastle will need to buy about 6 or 7 top players to be competitive next season and that Brighton will be one of the favourites for relegation. That doesn’t auger well for whoever wins the play-offs.

    I remember Burnley winning the 1st Division title in the sixties with a team comprising many northeast recruits. Chelsea were a music hall joke until they won the league for the first time in 1955. Before that they were on a par with Boro.

    We beat them in the play-offs in 1988 in what was a fairer system – the lowest 1st Division team against the top 3 2nd Division team who didn’t win automatic promotion. However the “powers that be” scrapped that system the next season.

    No, it’s all money orientated now. What is the point of being a Premiership team if you’re fighting relegation every season? How can EUFA call it’s major club competition “Champions League”? There can only be one Champion team in each country.

    No, I am disallusioned with the Premier League. I don’t hold with the notion that it is competitive: maybe for 5 or 6 teams. but not for the rest. Give me the Championship any day though I would like that to be reduced to no more than 20 teams.

    I don’t have the answers (I doubt anybody has), but merely give my observations and opinions.

  18. Cassandra – this team prospered in the Championship last season and the season before, with a few departures and a few arrivals I see no reason why it can’t again. Its not a certainty I agree, but the uncertainty is what makes it fun.

    As for the state of the club, I couldn’t disagree more, I see no evidence for ‘shambles’, what I see is a failed attempt to stay in the prem, not the same thing at all.
    The use of ‘shambles’ on this blog is a bit like the current tory fascination for the word ‘chaos’, its used a lot by certain people in the hope that the belief it be true spreads to others.

    1. Nigel

      Last seasons Championship Boro team has had an axe taken to it. Demi got the cold shoulder. Nsue got the door. Ayala has lost his way. Chambers is dead cert to leave. What about Ben? Will the Boro cash in or will he stay. Leadsbelter, excellent captain that he is, no longer has the legs. Previously, Reach, one of our own, was on the left – now gone. A whole bag full of right wingers disappeared into thin air so we’ve either got Beep Beep the Roadrunner or Stuani who’s position it is not. Gaston has had the mother of all hissy fits and will leave. Who’s left? Clayt’s, Forshaw, Bamford, Gestede. That’s four with Fabio and Friend making six.

      Now where exactly is that team that will get us auto promo’d. Will Negredo stay? De Roon? And of course the biggest unknown, the manager. I know lets keep the smiling players mate Aggers – he who has presided over one win in eight games?

      Now Nigel, you can’t see the possible issues there? You can’t see a shambles? You know the sort of word you use when you’ve only won four or five games in a 38 game season?

      Still, stiff upper lip eh?

      1. Sparta
        The wonderful thing about the passage of time is that it slowly brings things into perspective, the operative word being slowly.
        If you look back two years you see the run of games against the four? big teams.
        No problems, we would obviously have no trouble playing in the Prem.
        Look back eighteen months and you can now see the monumental blunders which were perpetrated, for what they were (terminal)
        The selling of players (raising a few million quid)
        The buying of players who were all look alike,( not quite good enough, not quite big enough, not quite nasty enough)
        The failure to see what was in front of your eyes(Dimi was easily our second best keeper) we were playing in the Prem. This season , not in some future world when he will undoubtedly be retired.
        The lack of logic, that having a brilliant defence was a good thing, improve our attack whilst sickening our opponents with our defence.
        We chose to abandon our great defence, whilst signing strikers that didn’t strike and strikers that didn’t play, then selling them, still not playing.
        The choice of a manager is all important, yet the chairman chooses to make statements on the lines of, ” stop all this talk about this or that manager, I know this fellow, and he is well liked round the club and very kind to children and old ladies, so he is going to be my manager.
        Well, can I say that a certain Adolf Hitler was very kind to children and old ladies, in addition to liking dogs and being a dab hand at paper hanging (Liverpool circa nineteen six)
        The stats say that he couldn’t run a walk stall, sorry, but to say on national t.v.
        And I quote, ” I am gutted” is the outside of enough.

    2. Not at all Nigel..I use the word because that’s what I believe. Our January recruitment campaign was shambolic bordering on the bizarre for example. Simply buying players for the sake of it at inflated prices and in whom the head coach had no interest made no sense whatsoever. Failure to intervene to replace the failing head coach in sufficient time to allow his successor a fighting chance of saving the season is another example of what I term a shambles.

      I don’t think we ‘prospered’ at all last season; we limped over the line with Karanka’s chronic lack of ambition and stilted tactics after he found out there was a lot more to management when you don’t have the quality of player Real Madrid had. That continued into this season and well, we know what’s happened…

      1. Cass
        What you say makes sense, the juxtaposition of ” buying players not approved of by the coach” then going on to mention “the failing head coach” seems to be a failure to realise what was actually happening inside the club.
        Surely ,, with our record of abject failure as a club over a lot of years we as fans must have been praying that the club bought the players that he wanted? Why wouldn’t he, the coach is the one who must turn them into good players.
        We won’t even mention the sale of Reach(for washers) every chance that he will be playing in the prem. Next season.(morrison anyone about ten years in the Prem and counting)
        Yes, our record is shameful.

    1. What twaddle!

      A reasoned piece?

      ‘Boro have been an irrelevance and will not be missed.’

      But the Chairman is gold dust.

      He notes 6 ‘core’ players, 2 of which are past their best by date.

      Great big sack of a rose tinted glasses conclusion paid for by the MFC PR dept. Please tell me it ain’t spin!

      Sad days!

  20. Nigel, I agree totally. We are far from the years pre-1986. If we think about Amer as chairman or Strachan as a manager, he are well off.

    And there are plenty of good players in our team. No need to rebuild. JUst a weak or two. Or a bit more. We still need to sort out the midfield but we have good strikers in Bamford and Negredo. Of course it is different question if we can afford Negredo or he wants to stay.

    Defensively we are sound – Gibson, Ayala, Fry, Friend etc. But we definitely need a few attacking minded midfielders. I would still keep de Roon and Clayton for a year. But replace Ramirez.

    So as Nigel said, it we are generally fine. We need the right manager, a few correct signings and some young players from academy. The academy should be producing more players to the first team as I said before.

    And finally Spartak, we could have stayed up had we kept Karanka until May. We won’t never know but we could have got one or two wins more than Aggers did. A change is always a risk as Hartlepool found out. Also I can say the club has failed to produce enough young talent – perhaps Aitor would have played more of them had there been players good enough coming through.

    Let’s hope Dael Fry, Harry Chapman and Connor Ripley will prove to be good enough. And let’s hope we will have a good season in the Championship.

    Up the Boro!

    1. I must say I have to agree with Spartakboro. I can’t see Boro’ getting automatic promotion next season with the players remaining and to say that we have good defenders, not on last night’s evidence.

      And as I wrote earlier what is the point of promotion to struggle season after season in the Premier League.

      The ambition of the top five or six Premier League teams is to qualify for the Champions League. Indeed most supporters of Arsenal and some of Man United consider it a failure not to do so. Arsenal fans are not even mollified by FA Cup success.

      The Champions League is a misnomer. It is neither a League nor is it exclusively for Champions. Many years ago some of the top teams advocated a European League.

      Now here’s a revolutionary idea. Why not let them have it. Let them resign from their domestic leagues. That would certainly make the English, German, Spanish, Italian, Dutch leagues more competitive, almost as competitive as the English Championship.

      Would it work? Could it happen? Who knows. But I’m tired of the same teams winning the Premier League.

      Just look at the joy of supporters in the lower leagues when their team become champions. Give me the Championship any day over the current Premier League!

  21. That sums up my thoughts EXACTLY – SG played a cagey game so we would be secure whichever of the two end of season outcomes came along. Believing that, then you must also believe that he lacked confidence in the playing side/management this time last year (and also that he saw the risk of replacing AK and his team during the summer break also too much of a risk). This may suck at a footballing level but at a business level this was a relatively low financial risk and, (while we will never know what may have happened had he thrown the kitchen sink at it yet can guess that he believed the outcome was in percentage terms more likely to be as it is today than retaining our top flight status) certainly puts us in good ‘business’ status for next season. The mental damage may be more difficult to ascertain. For sure now is the time for a new backroom team, and after the obvious contractual and essential departures, to look all the players in the eye and decide who is mentally up for it next year, and move the rest on quickly, while adding youth and new players to the mix. Fry, Ripley and Chapman must at least get a chance next season.

    Actually if we start this process once the season is over then I’ll be more excited about next season than I was this one.!

    UTB

  23. Smoggypaul

    I certainly wasn’t enamoured at the recruitment and have said so often enough.

    We didn’t give it a go and we were cautious from top to bottom. In essence that is what the article is saying and as you put it, Steve Gibson planned for both eventualities.

  24. Spartak – Are you trying to tell me that Boro got relegated because we didn’t keep/play Dimi, Nsue or Reach? That’s laughable, none of them are Premiership players neither is Albert which is why he’s at Villa. Are you suggesting being ‘one of our own’ (Reach) is a criteria for getting in the team? I hope not otherwise we’ll have Ian Gill at centre forward, me fighting with jarkko for the left back spot etc etc.

    Leadbitter no longer ‘has the legs’ really, where did that scientific assesemnt come from? How old is he? He’ll be around next year for certain, he’s a leader and a very good championship player.

    Cassandra, your argument falls apart around the point you claim Boro bought players in January who the head coach didn’t want. Bamford was most definitely a Karanka pick, as for the others they were undoubtedly on the list but not at the top. The fact that the coaches first choices didn’t want to come isn’t the clubs fault, its a symptom of being in the bottom five/six at the time.

    We have a strong core for next seasons squad , I’ll be up for it come August.

    1. Nigel

      Are you slipping a little?

      You stated that THIS team did well previously in the Championship – I replied that half the previous Championship team had left ( god bless me as I’d even forgotten Uncle Albert). And many of the new EPL ‘level’ buys would either leave or be substandard.

      It might have been Richard who said Boro as a club might have been destroyed by AK – I consider the shambles to be SG’s baby cause he’s the Chairman and it’s his watch.

      I have to add that I’ve had my doubts about your judgements on the merits of MFC executive management for sometime and recently this has been confirmed for me by your recent comments here.

      This season has not been one of ANY glory for ANY at the club – nor does it augur well for next season.

    2. Nigel – interesting – so if, as you allege, my argument ‘falls apart’ around the Bamford signing, explain why Bamford played no part in Karanka’s denouement side. If not fit, why pay £6m for him? If not able, why pay £6m for him? Short of subscribing to the conspiracy theory that Gibson planned relegation to consolidate with the parachute payments in order to mount a more serious assault on the PL next season, I can think of no logical reason why MFC would splash out a considerable sum on a non-playing team member in our time of greatest need.

      Karanka almost certainly liked the lad and appreciated his fantastic contribution in the Championship, but what he needed in January were players to come in and make a difference and not to sit in the shadows. I seriously doubt Karanka wanted that from Bamford or any of the other two underwhelming signings. That is the basis of my argument and it seems pretty watertight to me…

  26. Nigel, Yes I am a left back. And I have scored once when Jim Platt was in goal. But I had problems with Bernie – he was good.

    So defensive wise you could be better.

    We will be back. Up the Boro!

  27. I can’t agree with the Telegraph article’s premise that our January business was specifically aimed at having an insurance policy in case of relegation. If Boro have fallen short by half-a-dozen points then surely the better insurance policy would be to buy players who you believe will help gain you those extra six points or so.

    Any club getting relegated with the size of parachute payments now on offer (£47m) plus the banking of £100m will have no trouble attracting and acquiring Championship level players during the summer. Sorry but I believe those January signings were believed by those who bought them to be capable of making a difference in the PL to help avoid relegation.

    The fact that none of them have barely featured in a team short on bodies speaks volumes of what went wrong in this season’s planning – not next season’s Championship planning. The fact that they are now here and will be playing in the Championship next season is just coincidence.

    Also, any club intent on a quick return to the PL should try to hang onto players that are capable of playing in the PL and use next season to better integrate them. De Roon has been on a learning curve and to cash in on him would be a waste as he could be a key player the year after next. You have parachute payments to pay the wages of those PL players on you books – not to sell off your assets and leave yourself needing to build a whole first XI for the next two consecutive years.

    The club next season should work on the principle that they aim to be back in the PL the year after – that for me means moving on players who are not going to cut it in two years time and getting in new players who will be capable of making the step up.

    We know where our problems lay and for me finding midfielders who are not one-dimensional would be a priority – along with better wide players who have both skill, pace and the mental ability to use them effectively.

    1. God’s teeth Werder, do you think that the shambles at Boro are capable of delivering what is your excellent advice?

      If they were truely competent we woldn’t have been relegated in the first place.

      They are an incompetent shambles!

  29. Well, well, well, big Phil T takes the gloves off in a no holds barred end of season scathing summary of serious shocking shambles – breaking newts!

    http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/middlesbroughs-supporters-now-need-reassurance-13006937

    I reckon not so deeply hidden therein is the slight to the Gazette from SG when he was seduced to giving an exclusive to one of the nationals.

    The ides of March have passed us by but it seems the ides of May are upon us.

    The Gazette demands a statement!!!

  30. Werder

    I suspect the journos were talking together. It was an interesting read, the first part hit home the most about the poverty of our displays. Listening to pre match non Boro pundits discussions there was almost a general view we just were not good enough, that we could come back. Most of the reports take a similar line.

    The recruitment wasn’t up to it, nor were the manager and coaching staff. It is a championship quality squad, how good is another matter, certainly we lack pace.

  31. And creativity Ian. We never ever had enough of it, infact none before we got Ramirez on loan. Then never added to him. Some may point to SD, but he underperformed in the Champioship, fell out with AK in the Premiership and has done little under SA.

    Not much return for all that money and no resale value.a

  32. Pedro

    We were crying out for creative players in August. In general it was one player out, another player in but our creative incomings have contributed little and that is being generous.

    Gasgone Ramirez was a huge disappointment in January and even worse since as was the recruitment. Even AK was hoping for some more flair but no pace, flair, creativity came in.

    We didn’t get the dead cat bounce of a new manager just a dull thud. At least the players were happier, that is a relief! Being unfair, most will be gutted, even the mercenaries don’t like losing.

  33. I cannot believe SG will make any statement, as such, until the end of the season, irrespective of PT demanding one.

    What it will be is anybody’s guess. May be he does not know yet himself. Will he sell the club, will he reflect and give it one more go on the back of the 18000 ST renewals, will he change the Coach and all that goes with it.

    Even SG must think is it time for a change…….sometime, …….will it be now????

  35. The point is,and it’s very important ,the players now love their working environment, all laughing and giggling, no more rules,the shackles are off, they can now express themselves and have a go,and look what happened ,yes we saw more goals didn’t we,for the other teams.
    The Real Madrid way, you know the one where the likes of Ronaldo motivate themselves and work their nuts off to become better each day, the one where the previous manager was familiar with, the expectations are professional to the core,
    You can’t have that at Boro ,no,you have to follow the Evening Gazzette reporters ideal,you know the little boys club,whom none of them have seen hardly any games in the premiership for at least seven years,and have absolutely no idea of what we were up against.
    The reason we didn’t compete enough,was because Steve Gibson was listening to obviously the wrong people,and needs to clean house behind the scenes,the one big thing that club need is someone who can spot a player, real players not names in another clubs squad.
    On another note ,these articles from reporters in some of the national,are pathetic,
    Yes we struggled,but this premiership now, is so mediocre its boring, it’s now just a matter of survival,are you telling me, Watford, Burnley, Stoke, Palace,W.Ham, W.Brom,are so fantastically entertaining, and as some are saying we are the only ones who are embarrassing,give me a break!

    1. GT
      Under George Graham, I believe, Arsenal were called boring, but they won the title to compensate.

      Boro were relegated.

      Jarkko reckons of AK had stayed we’d stay in the EPL – fat chance I say!

      But I do like a man who stays loyal in the face of ALL the evidence to the contrary.

  36. Louise Taylor’s article reads a bit like Luke Edwards in the Telegraph. What a surprise, journos speak to each other and lo and behold similar thoughts appear.

    Clearly Louise is part of the MFC PR spin.

    1. Nonsense

      A ragid comment Ian.

      The wheels have come off. Louise says SG has made a series of bad calls. Thats opposite to the SG legend buldin PR that comes from the fraternity that once was. Same with PT at the Gazette.

      Hell hath no fury like a journo ( or their paper) spurned

      Strange days indeed when the old alliances are spilt asunder.

    1. Steely
      Nah! Hos twitter registration suggests not but in these times you never know. In fact, Ian could be a secret Labour Party voter with a secret subscription to the Morning Star.

      🙂

  39. Steady now stick to the playing the ball, Borophil is a long respected member of the blog community with strongly held views – since the Bournemouth debacle he saw the writing was on the wall and has switched his attentions to campaigning on behalf of the Labour party as far as I can see from his Twitter feed.

    1. The man’s a flipping jinx then. Although it might be said that when others were warning of impending doom he, and Simon, spent an undue amount of time forensically dissecting posts and rubbishing the views therein. Disappearing now seems a little ingracious on their part in my opinion.

      That doesn’t mean that I endorse the rabid tone that is developing. Personally, I tend to agree with the article from the Torygraph ( I suppose that I was bound to say that once in a lifetime) although I think rather than a plan for relegation, the actions of the club from January onwards represented to me an each way bet mentality, as I said on transfer deadline night.

      The kind of signings that would have “guaranteed” premiership status would have actually guaranteed financial meltdown if we had still been relegated.

      As we are, we are financially stable, still have a core of championship players and the capacity to add to them in the summer. Some of the long term projects may yet pay off (I would look at Eriksson’s career development at Spuds before writing Fischer off). We might use this opportunity well, we might not, time will tell.

      Finally, just listened to some very salient contributions from Mikkel Beck and John Hendrie on radio Brownlee. John reminded us that he played in the Bradford fire disaster. That was a tragedy, this is just football.

      1. Here here – the Bradford fire and all the other tragedies put the football right to the back of any importance.

        I too have been of the view that SG and the club have been hoping for the best and preparing for the worst ( going back down) otherwise, I think he may have ” gone for it” a bit more.

  40. Ken alluded to the Champions League being a misnomer, as it surely is but “the Popular European Football Brands Cartel” doesn’t have the same ring about it.
    I think many of us wish they had all buggered off and formed their own competition but, while there are two gravy trains to go at, why would they?

  41. Apologies if my references to BP have seemed offensive. That was not my intention.
    I enjoy all shades of opinion but, as Wiggy’s mate observes, it seems odd that he has disappeared from the blog at a crucial point in the season.
    Being the age I am, I also worry that any regular going missing from the blog may have left this mortal coil.
    Good to know that this is not the case with BP.
    As I’ve said before, Twitter, Facebook, etc are a mystery to me, so I wouldn’t be aware of a bloggers presence on those forums.

    1. Don’t worry no lines have been crossed – unless the accusation of being Phil Tallentire would cause someone offence, which shouldn’t be the case.

      No doubt the Gazette prefers to take a passive line when it comes to Boro politics and in some ways they can’t risk alienating a large chunk of their readers by taking a particular stance and usually stay close to the fence when deciding where to sit on a particular issue.

      Though now the goose is well and truly cooked they appear to have plucked up the courage to have a gander into what went wrong this season. Whether they are just playing to their disappointed audience purely out of self interest is an appearance that they need to be careful of not making.

      But being a local newspaper reporter doesn’t necessarily give you the freedom to express strong opinions and call for the manager’s head or pile into players as ultimately they require access and a good relationship. Whereas on a private blog we are free to say it as we see it and not worry too much whether someone will decide to restrict access to them.

      But a little banter is fine as long as it doesn’t get too personal and for sure people may not agree with what others say – but it’s all part of the debate and the overall aim must be to exchange views and ideas in the pursuit of a wider understanding.

  42. God gave us a pair of eyes and a pair of ears to receive information, he gave us one mouth to dispense information – in our case a keyboard.

    I would recommend reading and listening, process the information and take great care when posting. What seems harmless as you type can look different once posted. I was accused of being able to be an apologist for the holocaust, I took that personally for good reason, an inappropriate thing to say on a football blog.

    We do not know what is going on in the background, why people are not posting, treat posters as you would treat family because in some ways that is what we are.

    This site is self regulating, keep it like that.

  43. I think its difficult when you have genuine belief and hope and have to watch it frittered away. The cynics or doomsayers amongst us are gutted and sickened but to have been genuinely upbeat, positive and supportive means the swing of emotions are thus far greater. My guess is that BP’s pain is possibly greater then ours and the level of disappointment infinitely greater.

    I’m sure when the pain has bottomed out and things are a little clearer he will be back full of optimism. Right now its difficult to know what or even who to champion as even SG’s tenure is subject to some rumour and doubt. BP has a three quarters full mentality unlike many of us who have an inbuilt “Typical Boro” default mechanism to cushion us.

    Meanwhile we have the Saints coming up so it will be interesting to see if there are any early developments or indications of the “Championship Plan”. Its not unreasonable to expect one to have been considered is it?

  44. Beautifully put RR, as usual.
    As Ian says, we are like a family on here and I would not intentionally say anything to upset my family but I do like to exchange banter. I do, at times, though have difficulty finding the right words to,express my thoughts.

  45. Redcar Red

    I agree with that but I don’t know. It is possible he has thought I don’t need this, I wont bother. If we are not careful in our comments it is possible to alienate people.

    We are a virtual pub on here but when you raise your ‘voice’ it is not like sitting opposite someone in the Navi. Eye to eye is different with a pint in your hand to sitting there reading others responses to your posts.

    We are guessing, where is GHW for example? He may be unwell, OFB has kept us posted on his ailments matron but is GHW struggling?

    Whatever your view it is wise to be circumspect.

    1. Ian

      I told you I have just been circumspect and it still bloody hurts !

      Mind I always though this blog was a cut above the rest !

      FatBob

  46. It is imperative that Steve Gibson appoints a manager as soon as possible. However I would prefer that the post should be advertised and then a short list prepared.

    That may sound old-fashioned nowadays but I’m not keen on the next manager being head-hunted.

  47. You would have thought that, with a £2.5M payoff, Karanka might have been able to afford a decent gym membership, without having to keep going to Hurworth. I wonder if he gets to chat to any of the squad whilst he’s there? Well, obviously not Stewie Downing.

    On the other hand, he might be popping in to give Valdes’ tender ribs a bit of a rub. Surely we can’t expect him to don the keeper’s gloves again this season, not whilst he is still feeling the odd twinge? In which case, since Guzan had THREE goals go in last night, all between his nutmeg legs (saucy jokes about some girls in Middlesbrough anyone?), who will be between the sticks for the last game or two? Put down that menu and tray, Dimi, and collect your kit if it still fits…….

  48. I’m not surprised that BoroPhil has kept his head down. As a fellow member of Optimists Anonymous along with the estimable Jarrko, I too found the final capitulation very hard to take. I was in England at the year end and was at the Swansea game which, despite AK’s stupid and disheartening comments, seemed to be the start of something good. Who would have known how terrible everything would be from then on.

    Forever Dormo

    Glad that you support my thinking about Dimi. It would be a small gesture for the club but would create a massive amount of goodwill.

    Am I right in thinking that Harry Chapman is not eligible to play. I assume that he is back from Sheff Utd as their season is ended but would be caught by the 25 man list. He couldn’t be less effective than Traore who is maybe the most deceptive player that we have ever had. He looks great and then …… nothing. Incidentally, given all the publicity about his lack of end product, it may be that there wont be any takers for Traore this summer and we’ll be stuck with him. Oddly enough, after all the negativity from me and everyone else, it’s just possible that this might work to our advantage. If he could be taught to fall over on cue, he just might be of value in the championship against less disciplined defenders as a good source of penalties.

    UTB

  49. I hope Dimi gets a match, but I think Aggers will field thestrongest team he thinks is available. He won’t play some fringe players because of next season. He wants results and is fighting for his future.

    I think it is fair he players for a win or at least for results. Next season will be better to start win a win or unbeaten “run”. And especially so if he wants the job permanately.

    Up the Boro!

    PS. I know what is nutmeg legs. So between the legs. Where does that come from? Isn’t that a flavour, too?

    1. Middlesbrough girls, nutmeg legs, flavoursome – its gettin a little riskè around here!

      Spartak shuffles off on his symerframe headin for a cold shower.

    2. The goalkeeper stands up with his feet well separated, leaving an enticing gap between his legs. The opposing player then kicks the ball through that enticing gap, into the net. The opposing player has kicked the ball between the keeper’s legs.

      When you are the supporters of the goalkeeper’s team, when the THIRD goal goes in between the keeper’s legs it leaves an unpleasant taste. Which is strange really, as nutmeg is quite pleasant.

    3. Jarkko

      Not putting too finer a point on it it’s Football, that means your nuts and nuts – is a term commonly used for nutmeg in the north of England – “refers to the testicles of the player through whose legs the ball has been passed and nutmeg is just a development from this !!

      So now you know !!!

  51. Premier League

    It’s all very intoxicating to reach the pinnacle and see your team play the big names. However, the chasm that exists and continues to widen makes the game so one sided that chances of David beating Golliath time after time are seriously limited.

    I have to say the ‘English’ game has suffered from the inclusion of non native players, yet on the other hand the internationals bring excitement and skill that homegrown players often fail to reach.

    Everything has an equivalent positive and negative.

  52. Talking of money troughs… Reports this morning claim the slice (though slice doesn’t really apply in this case) that Pogba’s agent received of the €100m deal was allegedly a staggering €49m.

    Apparently, Juventus paid him €27m and Man Utd also paid him €22m (which included €2.6m on Pogba’s behalf for securing his wage deal). This is absolutely crazy and the deal is so perverse that it now being investigated by those paragons of virtue FIFA – no doubt to see how he got away with it.

    It’s time football fell under the scrutiny of governments as this kind of behaviour cannot be allowed to continue – especially if you consider how much supporters are being charged to either watch a game or the price of TV packages. Their money is just being used as a slush fund for clubs to massage their egos.

  54. Selwyn

    Harry Chapman could play as an under age player.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2137974-premier-league-home-grown-rules-explaining-epl-player-quotas.

    This part of the season was often used to get youngsters in to squads, even bench appearances so they got a chance to be around the first team on match days and a chance of a cameo.

    The problem is the pressure on the football side of the club to get a result in the last home fixture. A miserable defeat could send fans away for the summer even more underwhelmed than they already are.

    1. Both Harry Chapman and Dael Fry are both playing for England at the under 20 World Cup in South Korea. So unfortunately not available for last two games.

  55. Do we not recall the transfer fee for Gary Pallister to Man Utd? I myself was incensed that MFC sold one of our best players, thus facilitating their success over ours.

    Ultimately it’s a case of the addicted masses providing the wealth to the few – over & over again. Then, they vote into power those who perpetuate the system.

    1. Spartak

      We then bought him back, complete with bad back(known about) for the same fee , the longest loan in history. He had collected many many titles and cups, and was going too be a free agent in three months time when we signed him.
      This single incident proved to me that we have no idea whatsoever about the game of professionals football, in its entirety.

  56. Sparta – I can see where you are coming from and can’t disagree with your last sentence!

    I fear that this election may see a very low turnout unless somehow people can be persuaded that not voting got us Brexit by default and therefore you need to vote.
    In my humble view, we don’t want a tory landslide but the masses will do what the Sun says!

    1. except in Liverpool of course where the circulation of the Sun is pitifully low since its slur on the victims of Hillsborough…..

  57. Spartak

    Positives and negatives about the influx of foreign players is spot on.

    They were supposed to come in and help improve the quality of home grown players, what we have seen is that squads are filled with players from overseas. Some of the top clubs academies are bursting with young talent from abroad.

    Since the pinnacle of the Youth Cup winning team we have gradually seen a reduction in young players coming through at Boro. The Southgate model was supposed to be bringing all these good kids to the fore, instead he started shifting them out and towards the end it was fire sale time.

    Even under Mogga in his first full season there were a handful of appearance of academy prospects. In his second season Reach always got the hook as the likes of Dyer and Ameobi got preference.

    We seem good at defenders but attackers seem unable to break through and it isn’t just AK, as I say it started back with Southgate.

  58. It’s seems funny that everyone is slating the “perverse” premier league and its money, didn’t hear anyone complaining in August when the season was about to begin with everyone full of optimism.

  59. For what its worth I think BP’s absence and GHW’s disappearance is more to the tone of the blog and the alienation Ian refers to.

    The tone changed for the worst in the last months of AV’s tenure for me and hasn’t improved.

    GHW referred to that several months ago before he went awol, my guess is BP has had enough of the jibes and snide remarks.

    I’m not sure optimists find it harder when things go wrong, I’m am optimist/foam hander and I’m philosophical about where Boro are now, I’ll be up for it in August.

    1. Spartak

      Selling a player like Gary Pallister to ManU is not a new thing.

      Geoff Butler went to Chelsea, Cyril Knowles went to Spurs. Graeme Souness went to Liverpool.

      The better players gravitate to bigger clubs. It has gone on for years.

      For all the wonders of German football it is still skewed to Bayern, in Spain you have Real and Barca.

      Whether players move for squillions or buttons, they always will go to the best club they can.

      Nigel

      Did you mean AV or AK’s tenure?

      1. Can’t disagree too much with your point, Ian. Indeed, it seems to be endemic in the game & part & parcel of the human condition. Not that I like it.

        From a personal perspective however, it always seems our best are sold on (obviously that is not the case, but it is how it feels). And so those at the top maintain their supremacy and attract the glory seekers.

        If only it were otherwise.

    2. Nigel

      I get the impression that you are throwin stones in a glass house.

      I recall you asked me if I enjoyed supportin the Boro. I took that to mean that if I didn’t then perhaps I should go elsewhere.

      If anyone has taken flak for his opinons its myself & I don’t care. In the face of all objections unless someone can PROVE without doubt I’m wrong then I will remain resolute. If someone does argue successfully then I hope with God’s blessing I have the humility to accept I’m wrong.

  60. Spartak

    It always looks worse from your own club’s viewpoint. A bit like dodgy decisions, most clubs get them but your own seem more unfair.

    1. Ian
      You were doing well until you mentioned dodgy decisions.
      When it comes to them it pays to look at the overall picture, no boring lists, no names, no pack drill, but this season alone, it has been a regular occurance to see, alongside the match report, the simple statement “.xxx(insert your favourite London club )will be appealing their red card and are very optimistic. I’m sorry to say that ninety per cent did succeed. Contrast and compare our experience, being told that if we did appeal there could be an increase in the punishment.

  63. Re Plato text 5.52pm

    I agree about our attitude to transfer targets

    It was ever thus. I remember in 1949 after Newcastle had been promoted to the First Division we made a bid for Jackie Milburn. The Newcastle Board persuaded us to buy their reserve centre forward who had just as much potential.

    So we bought Andy Donaldson, a tall gangly player to replace the ageing Mickey Fenton. Donaldson cost £17,000 and only played 16 games for us; Milburn suceeded Tommy Lawton as England’s centre forward before Nat Lofthouse replaced him.

  64. Boro Beckys Dad

    I was hoping so which is why I sued Dong Gook but I think it went in off his knee at 12.06 because Spartak replied to Nigel at 12.07.

    Werder will adjudicate as usual

    Listened to the tripe supper and the Gazette boys don’t think Agnew has covered himself in glory since taking over from AK but neither have the players.

    Their view seems to be flaky management, recruitment, players. Basically the whole caboodle.

    Ben Gibson got it right, it is everyone at the club who let the fans down.

    Out of interest I read earlier that AK was still appearing at Rockcliffe, I missed that story, any more info?

  65. Cheers, mates.

    Gibbo Jr. commented after the match. ““I will have no doubt that we will be in a better position to get promoted than what we were last season,” said Gibson.

    “Going down will be hard to bear but I urge the fans to stick with the football club. We’ve let them down and as a football club – but we won’t let that happen again.”

    I agree that we must be better positioned for promotion next season than ever before. I cannot see the club is a mess. The Shambles is in York, mind. City did not have a good season, too. I know that Spartak disagrees but this is how I feel.

    Up the Boro. The Boro is going up next season!

    1. On a positive it reads like Ben Gibson may stay. Well thats my reading of what he says when he says we’re in a better position than last season to push for promo one more time.

      And Jarrko, never say I dont believe in your right to an opinion, for you are and this here blog is here for us all to contribute regardless in a civil manner – except of course with Ian 🙂

      2. Sparta
        As a lover of football I would be very disappointed if ben Gibson did not move to a trophy winning club. That is what youth spends it’s time striving for, he is a good player and a good person. If he stays he will only make it possible for an inferior player to show him his medals (and money ) in a few years time. Not good.

  66. Ian – I was referring to AV’s tenure running the blog, I made that point because I didn’t want to give the incorrect impression that the blog has declined since werder took on the mantle. My view is like many others that the standard of the blog with werder and Redcar’s contributions is as excellent as ever.

  67. Nigel –

    This is not in anyway a criticism but I just wanted to make a few general points on your comment:

    I think I’d wish to draw a distinction between the ‘tone of the blog’ and perhaps the tone of any comments you didn’t find to your liking. As far as I’ve noticed the overwhelming tone of comments on the blog continue to be honest, polite and in the right spirit.

    Ian may be right that often the sentiment behind the written word can be lost if sometimes it was said in jest – and that’s something worth considering as one person’s amusing Frankie Boyle is another person’s insulting Katie Hopkins. I’m also not naive to the possibility that people will sometimes get involved in having disagreements because they like to have a good argument but as long as they don’t stray over the line and don’t get involved in a personal argument then that is just the way of any forum.

    I think it’s important to hear people who don’t sound like yourself even if I don’t imagine their tone or argument is to my taste as anything else is a slippery slope to existing in an echo chamber – so whilst it’s anyone’s right to take offence, it’s also in some ways their obligation to try not to be overly offended by one-off remarks too – as I suspect in most cases they were only given a second’s thought. I do notice the odd remark here and there that maybe would have been better not aired but I don’t want to jump in like the thought police unless they are clearly out of order.

    As for Borophil or GHW, well I can’t speak with any authority as to what they may be thinking but like with anyone else, we should just respect their choices of whether to post comments on the blog or not – freedom of speech is also freedom not to speak.

    Though having glanced at Borophil’s Twitter feed recently, I don’t think things Boro are at the top of his conversation topics right now – besides he’s not someone who shied away from putting his argument forward in the strongest terms, so I doubt he would be anyway put off from debating against the tide – if anything he seemed to enjoy it more.

    I would just like to add my thanks to everyone who takes the trouble to post a comment as this blog is virtually a moderation-free task and it’s everyone who makes the sum of the whole what it is.

  68. werder, we can agree to disagree.

    For me there is a post with which you don’t agree with relating to Boro issues, that’s fine, we need that, there’d be no point otherwise and then there is the other stuff.
    You’re always going to get the other stuff, its human nature, I’ve been guilty of it myself.

    My argument is that the balance has shifted for the worse.

    1. Nigel

      Yes, the balance of opinion has changed but then we’ve just been relegated with only 5 wins outta 36 league game, hence it’s not surprising that many are miffed with the manner in which the club as a collective has failed. Ben Gibson agrees!

  69. Nigel

    Agree with that.

    Spartak

    Ben Gibson’s comments are interesting. It does seem he isn’t intending to rush away and I cant see him pressing for a move. Staying would result in reduced wages and probablydropping out of the England scene

    I suspect the situation may change when a club comes in for him and our club has a choice to make. Is the bid enough to meet the valuation and what can we get for that money. Then there is the consideration of what is best for Ben himself.

    Lets say someone like Liverpool come knocking at the door and he can get a big salary hike, Champions League football and a likelihood of international call ups. Who would begrudge him the opportunity?

    There are the other big clubs to consider plus Everton who are interested..

    What if the likes of Baggies/Stoke/ Leicester come calling? The first thing is whether they will pay the fee, he is more likely to get a game there but you have the David Wheater scenario in that whilst the clubs look settled things can easily go wrong.

    One line of thought was on Sunday Supplement which went along the lines that Michael Keane would leave Burnley and Ben would be the ideal replacement. That did my health and temper no good.

    The idea of Toon doesn’t bear thinking about.

    Other ideas are to sell and get a loan back or promise him he can leave in January if we don’t look like going up.

    I think he will go but with a heavy heart.

    De Roon will leave, Victor Fischer has been told by his international manager he needs to play. Valdes to City, Negredo back to Spain. Keep Gaston and leave him to rot serving burgers on match day. Traore will stay because he is no use at the moment though someone could buy him and loan back to us.

    Bernardo and Barragan? Hard to say, looked good at times poor at others.

    If we get £40m in parachute payments, £35m in sales and reduced wages we can be quite aggressive on the transfer front.

    First we have to sort out the backroom staff.

    1. Nicely put Ian, but dont get the idea your right 😉

      On that point, I do think Ben will stay as the Boro is in his DNA. Also he gets game time, whilst at Citeh, Pool he gets to sit on the bench or elswhere where they don’t speak proper English like what a Teessider does 🙂

      Further, on Teesside he can become a legend, at other places less so. For sure, if his heads on right he won’t get dizzy with all the cash coz he shouldn’t need it.

      1. Sparta
        Please stop, your doing my head in, all this airy talk about cash, who needs it?
        The world of football is awash with cash, every player is chasing it, no club or supporter has the right to say,” you belong to us, and beside we love you to bits, and furthermore you are getting enough money to live on, far more than your grandfather got down the pit.
        We all got the heaves when Everton tried it with Rooney. It did not work then, and it should not work now.
        Rooney would be thirty million poorer if he had bought all that sentimental guff then, and about twenty titles lighter.

  70. Spartak

    I put more fences to sit on than B&Q have in the garden section!

    I literally typed as I thought through the scenarios. The sale and loan back might suit all parties.

    As for talking proper, they do have Spanish speakers at other clubs.

    🙂

  71. The one thing ,Agnew has going for him ,is he knows the Championship,
    I think Steve Gibson is giving him the next two games to confirm either he’s the man or not.
    To be honest I might lean towards giving him a shot rather than someone out of left field who is inexperienced at this level, ( definitely not Giggs please )
    My biggest concern and it’s been mentioned ,Agnew is all over the place with his formations and selections.
    The one thing you need running a club at any level,is you need to know how you want things done,and an eye for a player that fits the description.if you do that you can sometimes hide your deficiency’s​.
    I of course reserve the right to completely, reverse my thoughts on anything I have just.
    UTB

  72. Spartak – I understand that the balance of opinion has shifted, the season has been a car crash of that I think we’re all agreed. That’s not an issue for me, its ‘the other stuff’ which is my issue.

    I’ll leave it there.

  73. gt

    Just read Jonno’s take on the situation, lots of ifs and buts.

    For Agnew it is now or never at Boro.

    He has tweaked and changed all to no avail but In mitigation the players have not delivered.

    Before AK left I warned not to expect a big turnaround should he leave so can I now blame Agnew because I expected no better? I think they are a decent bunch of players without enough stardust.

    The most likely performer was Ramirez but he has done his reputation no good at all. If we get £15m for him I will personally offer to drive him to the airport.

    Getting back to the subject of who next and I am stumped about what to do. The likes of Puel from Southampton may well become available but he is from the same school as AK.

  74. Regarding who will stay and go, Gibson leaving would be a big blow he’s a unique figure in the squad being the Charman’s nephew and as Spartak says is well on the way to becoming a Boro legend. I think he’ll stay.
    I also think de Roon might as well. I’d like to see Negredo stay, but I appreciate that’s unlikely. Valdes leaving isn’t a biggy, I’ve defended him all season and I think he’s been decent, but he seems very injury prone, unusual for a keeper and he isn’t spectacular.

    I’d be inclined to sign an experienced keeper as back up for Conor Ripley.

    We still need a good right winger and probably a left winger if Downing ‘replaces’ Ramirez as the No. 10, which seems like an obvious move to me.

    Keeping as much of the squad together as possible is important I think as it gives continuity for next season

    As for the manager, I’ve nothing against Agnew he might be the right man, but I think appointing him is a big risk, I’d prefer to see an experienced championship manager come in. But, if Agnew is appointed he’ll have my full support and backing.

  75. Nigel

    Has not Downing been tried in the No 10 role previously and been found wanting?

    I think he is one we need to move on and free up some cash with a view to recruiting a couple of attack minded midfielders with pace.

    I agree with your other retentions if possible albeit I think De roon and Gibson may end up in the PL.

    As far as the manager is concerned, and I appreciate the players have not delivered, I do not believe SA is the man for the job and as you say we need an experienced manager preferably one who has an understanding of the Championship.

  76. OK, chaps.

    If you want some other manager rather than Aggers to be in charge next season, let’s have some realistic names and an indication as to their likely availability. For example, I don’t expect people to come up with the Atletico Madrid manager or the Spurs manager. Who would be likely to want to come here, would be someone to attract good players to this club, and who could organise the team sufficiently to get the best out of the players and lead us to promotion. Hopefully then to stay with us as the club progresses.

    Realistic names, anyone?

        1. Well As I’m going to my last Premiership match on Saturday for a while I think I will experience the sopophoric music of

          Brahms and Litz

      2. Good shout for Steve Bruce, got a good track record in the Championship. Not so keen n David Wagner: Huddersfield scored fewer goals in the Championship than we did.

        However, so did Villa.

    4. Well, you do know Aggers, don’t you.

      I have met him once very quickly, too. Nice chap but I don’t know if he is a success as manager. So let Gibbo to decide.

      Up the Boro!

  77. This is not a popularity contest, we need a manager who has the experience and the credentials and could be available to get us back up . Then who

    McLaren
    M,Carthey
    Keane
    Holloway
    Pardew
    Karanka
    Hodgson
    Brown
    Martinez
    O’Neill
    The list goes on,so who do you recommend,because the pool is small,unless Gibson has info on some unknown foreign coach,it’s wide open.

      1. I’m Brown, well, my spots are.
        Who else is Brown, Phil Brown, of the Hull City pitch lecture ?
        I’m certainly browned off with our season 🐕

  78. We need a manager who will continue from what we have now. Please not a manager who will sell most of the players and start from scratch. A total rebuilding will take two to three seasons. Please remember what happened last time we went down.

    As Nigel said we need to keep as many players as we can. Of course will will miss some but the aim must be to keep the core of the team. We have money to buy some reinforcements.

    Aggers would mean continuity at best. Unfortunately the results have not yet followed. So I am not yet been convinced by him. But I see the thinking behind his appointment.

    Good luck to Gibbo Senior. At least he has been there before. Up the Boro!

    1. Jarkko –

      The appointment of Agnew was a continuation philosophy , it failed. Luckily we can now have another go, so lets do that.
      Wagner is outstanding, and as with horse racing, current form not form from ten years ago.

  79. Mogga. I would love to see him back. Eye for a good player and I would like to see how he would do with some money. Put the club in order for Karanka.

    Southgate – but not available now.

    Craig Harrison – the former Boro player who has been a success in Wales securing the Welsh Premier League for the third year running and becoming the first team in Europe to win their domestic league.

    But I think it is Aggers or someone we don’t even think about. But not Strachan!

    UTB!

  81. The actual figures paid to agents last year by premiership clubs are published in my morning paper.

    Leading the way with £26m are City, Chelsea with £25m, ManU £19m, Liverpool with £13.8m, Arsenal with £10m .

    Hull bottom with just under £2m, Burnley and ourselves around £2.5m.- burnley spent about £80,000 more than us so they ‘bought’ their success.

    Sunderland spent nearly £6m.

    Total given to parasites £174,227,243.

    I suppose you need to add on what the selling clubs paid to them as well. It isn’t just a British problem.

  82. A word about Traore ,the talk is of selling him, that’s typical Boro,
    Can you imagine championship defenders against him,he will petrify them,if he gets the right coaching he will be an asset ,I can see him picking up penalties,on a regular basis,
    He needs a stay at home solid fullback behind him, Fabio is a liability on the same side.
    Once the season is over we can speculate on who should leave and the type we need coming in.

    1. Sone Aluko was similar to Traore when playing for Aberdeen. They also didn’t play him to his full potential.

      Just woofing like.

  84. Hello everyone.

    Just caught up with all the comments. Rest assured, I haven’t disappeared… I have been meaning to post here more often but I have actually been exceptionally busy with a move this past week and a half. New location, new life etc.

    I did however watch and comment on the Chelsea game and make a handful of comments. One of which included the word “pathetic”.

    One of the few moments of light relief this season has been crafting Boro140 match reports on Twitter week after week. AV was great at collecting these last season but for some reason the Gazette stopped doing them this season, so essentially it’s just been me and Paulista Park making bad puns. Shame.

    I have been drafting a new Talking Point too and will put it together as soon as I possibly can. It will include an explanation of why I believed as fervently as I did in the AK regime for so long – I’m sure you’re all interested in hearing that.

    After all, I’ve always believed…

    “(The manager’s) job is hard enough. It is unfair when people criticise him even when he wins.”

    — Zinedine Zidane. And he would know.

    1. Welcome back Simon

      We’ve missed your pithy reports!!

      I’ve been told my comments are pithy as well, at least I think that’s what they say?

  85. K P – Downing was found ‘wanting’ playing at no.10 for a manager who didn’t like him in a system that didn’t suit him. He thrived as a no.10 playing for a manager who valued him (Alardyce) and played a system that worked at West Ham.

    Downing has improved significantly since Karanka left and I see him as a major asset for next season.

    1. Nigel

      I’d like to think your right, time will tell. I can see him working well with Bamford & Gestede as a two up front. No problem with SD moving left & right as it suits him. Traore too on the right could still be an option with Fischer left. We know who sits behind them and the defence can be solid at Championship level.

      Aggers WILL be given the hot seat until Xmas, & if results favour him then permanent.

      SG is onto a winner once the dust settles as he keeps the zillions in the bank for a splash out at January if needed.

      I can’t see any major changes coming over the summer. If by some miracle Negredo stays well that would be a bonus.

      I’d still swap Leadbelter for Cattermole. Not that I dont rate Grant but I prefer some fire in the engine.

      Happy days

    2. Nigel

      I acknowledge your viewpoint but still remain unconvinced. I accept that there have been flashes of improvement since Karanka left but do not accept that it has been significant.

      I am struggling to remember more than one or two games where SD has made a significant/telling contribution not just this season but in the previous one.

      In my view he has underperformed and the return on the investment has been poor. He was never blessed with pace in his prime and is even less so now. His main assets of being able to cross a ball, pick a pass or score from a free kick have been in very short supply.

      I do not see him as a major asset next season, his contribution in relation to some of his colleagues fall well short of what I would expect were I the manager and I would be looking to free up what little worth he has in the market-place and invest elsewhere.

  86. Nigel

    The role at West Ham was different to the one we have played, I believe it was more of a 4312 with Downing as the one, a bit like the NFL quarterback pinging passes about.

    It was also in a team that defended in depth and played on the break rather than the possession football AK tried to play.

  87. I don’t know about Downing. Could work either way. I don’t believe he has the legs for a winger’s role anymore, so he’ll need an extra forward or extra attacking midfielder to support him in the centre if it is going to pay off for him.

    Key, I think, would be to abandon the dual shield and rely on one anchorman while freeing up the other player in the engine room to get forward more often, as Leads used to. The game has evolved again to a point where one human shield – a Kante figure – is enough.

  88. The tone of the blog has many elements but ultimately is set by its context, which is the Boro and how we are doing and will do.

    It’s rot and a tad namby-pamby to suggest it has become negative. This is a sturdy, well informed debate we have here and the supposed negative stems from the fact we are dealing with an awful spell in the club’s history and a spell, that many of us feel could have been relatively easily avoided.

    To try and continually see positives where none exist shows individual posters as nothing less than ridiculous. BP became a Baldrick like figure in this respect and it was down to the tosh that he continually came up, blinded by unthinking loyalty to what he wanted the club to be, that probably drew the scorn. Jeremy Corbyn is a nice analogy here probably. It’s great to want a strong, traditional Labour leader by all means but everyone, the deeply deluded aside, know Jez is not that man. As the polls will show in a few weeks.

    That said, it’s fundamental to have differing views. The way the past 12 months has unravelled has shown certain stalwart posters to have almost no credibility in the assessment of what was going on but it seems to me that everyone on this blog fully backs Middlesbrough FC and area, albeit in different ways, and that is brilliant. Hence all views are very welcome and if most are not sweetness and light, well that is very much indicative of where the club stands right now.

    To accept the club and its leaders as capable of doing no wrong by virtue of their positions alone is the only real negativity.

    1. Richard

      What an excellent post – well done. It is reasoned, articulate and captures the essence of what this blog is all about.

      I also believe “that everyone on this blog fully backs Middlesbrough FC and area, albeit in different ways and that it’s fundamental to have differing views” otherwise there would be nothing for us to debate/discuss.

      Whilst we fully back MFC, this does not restrict us from voicing discontent/criticism when this is reasoned and communicated in the appropriate manner.

      We all enjoy giving praise but there has been limited opportunity for us to do so this season, let’s hope that this changes for the better in the coming weeks which will see numerous departures/arrivals prior to the new season.

  89. Richard,

    With respect, I don’t think it’s on to refer to fellow posters as “ridiculous”, or to their views as “rot” and “tosh”. If that isn’t the kind of negativity which is best avoided then I don’t know what is. It certainly doesn’t suggest that you find “all views very welcome”.

    Nobody on here has ever expressed the view that “the club and its leaders can do no wrong by virtue of their positions alone”. I’d be interested to see what evidence you have for that. Otherwise it looks like you are simply knocking down a straw man of your own making.

    And whether you agreed with his views or not BP’s posts were invariably coherent, well- argued and evidenced based. And they performed the essential function of challenging the consensus. I rarely agreed with him, but thought he put his minority case very well. And, in my view that is what this blog has always aspired to be at its best: the respectful expression of a full range of analyses and coherent arguments and opinions. I’m not sure that your last post quite measured up to that.

  91. Anyway, goal scoring

    Season
    2011/12 For 52 Against 51 7th
    2012/13 F 61 A70 16th
    2013/14 F 62 A 50 12th
    2013/14 F 68 A 37 4th
    2014/15 F 63 A 31 2nd

    Failure to score goals has been a problem for some time. There was no glut of high scoring, end to end drama.

    1. Ian, I noticed that we played two teams in the 2013/14 season, I wonder if the FA noticed and instead of a fine or points reduction we were told to have a terrible season in 2016/17 and make sure we are relegated lol.

      Come on BORO.

  92. Richard – that’s a poor post.

    If you’re referring in whole or part to my previous posts you’ve missed the point completely.
    I haven’t got a problem with the negative/positive aspect of the blog, my issue is with those posters which in my view spend too much time firing snide remarks at others.
    Your second paragraph would come into that category.

    1. Ok, here’s my tuppence worth.

      Nigel

      Please correct me if I’m wrong but you were calling people ‘delusional’. So to criticise others for negativity is somewhat rum.

      What annoys is the do as I say and not as I do – the comment alluding to my loyalty to my club of choice and heritage is a point in mind.

      In my reading of the spectrum of opinions you, Simon, BP & Jarkko supported and acted together as a mini pressure group against all heretics against unconditional support. I lost count of the times ‘In Aitor we trust’ and ‘patience’ were posted. In addition, the ‘I agree with you Simon, BP, Jarkko’ appeared to be used to undermine others that had alternative opinions.

      Your remark today dishing Richard’s post as ‘poor’ – what is wrong with stating the points he makes in the final paragraph? How are they poor? Yet, the rating is all encompassing – it was poor.

      Now I don’t expect my short post to change your viewpoint radically neither do I think you will care all that much. However, please note there are people here who care deeply about our team and like you they should be allowed to express that feeling without being overly criticised for it.*

      *NB This of course doesn’t include Ian 😉

  93. The class of 2011-12, Mogga’s most successful lot, were not renowned for being exciting at home. Despite an away record to match the promotion winners of 1997-98 and 2015-16 – W10 D6 L7 – home was a different matter.

    According to Andrew Glover in 2012, and I can’t disagree with him, there were just three games that really gave us a spring in our step – Brum at home with those fabulous goals from Haroun (!) and Martin (!!), the FA Cup replay with Sunderland and the final home match vs. Southampton.

    Even under Aitor, a series of the most memorable matches of his reign came on the road – the cup triumph at Old Trafford, penalties at Anfield, the great Etihad victory, Vossen’s hat trick at Millwall, the win at Ipswich, the destruction of Brighton, De Roon’s equaliser, the Emirates in the league…

    So was it that we were creating happy memories in the away games – and I include Rhodes’ late, late double here – while underwhelming aesthetically and dramatically at home? When the vast majority see you at home it doesn’t create as pretty a picture.

  94. OK, as the blog administrator the responsibility falls on me to repeat what I said earlier but just to be clear on the House Rules – it’s play the ball not the man! That’s the round ‘opinion or view’ and not the person making the point.

    Whilst we can all go back and try and find particular examples of where one side of the argument played the man and not the ball, it’s just going to descend into petty point scoring and that doesn’t really encourage debate and is less likely that others will want to join in that debate. OK, many of us have been there in the heat of the moment so it’s just a bit of self-regulation that is needed.

    So whilst all views are welcome – providing they don’t cross any lines of what most people would regard as within the reasonable spectrum of public discussion and are within house rules – it is expected that people avoid intentionally starting arguments or trying to put down people for holding a particular view. If that is what you are looking for then I think there are other forums where that is catered for.

    There’s also really no point in trying to pick someone up on any particular point that they made several weeks or months ago in a previous blog post as it’s no longer in the same context of time – people give their view in good faith, whether it ultimately turns out to be right or wrong and it shouldn’t be thrown back in their face.

    Anyway, as I said before this doesn’t apply to the vast majority of comments made so it’s just a minority that need to pause and reign it in a little to avoid unnecessary friction – as there are good valid points that are being made but they are sometimes being masked by a few badly chosen phrases.

    Thanking you all in advance…

        1. Hear, hear is an expression used as a short, repeated form of hear him. It represents a listener’s agreement with the point being made by a speaker. … The phrase hear him, hear him! was used in Parliament from late in the 17th century, and was reduced to hear! or hear, hear! by the late 18th century.

  95. Werder

    Hear, hear.

    There is a DIY phrase of measure twice, cut (or drill) once, applying it to what we write makes sense.

    I could blame the hot weather, maybe not!

  96. No politics allowed, under the previous administrator,it got too deep and personnel,
    And I’m not ruling myself out of any of that inglorious episode,
    Boro and football in general only.
    And Yes you can pick. Holes in Gibson nation, after all there are quite a few right now.

  97. Any thoughts on Bernie’s comments ,no blame on Agnew or the players, Aitor was at fault for everything,yet he mentions when his team went down,he says the club didn’t invest enough,
    You can’t win.

    1. GT

      Aggers & the players (many of them) are expected to be around for next season so need to set off on the right foot. AK’s outta the door so makes a safe scapegoat thus even though both Friend & B Gibson issued a mea culpa on behalf of the players AK gets a load dropped on his head.

      Of course its all Corbyn’s fault 😉

      Meanwhile, & this is class, a vehicle belonging to the Met Police Royal Protection Squad ran over the LEFT foot of a BBC cameraman with its LEFT wheel.

      This of course is a sign and LEFT me in tears of laughter.

      Finally we know Jezza for the closet Royal he’s always been 😉 lol

      AK got sacked – Corbyn’s fault
      Boro got relegated – Corbyn’s fault
      BBC cameron injured by Met police car – Corbyn’s fault
      Ian reads the Torygraph – definitely Corbyn’s fault!!! lol

      🙂

  98. In all the comment on who we should be signing, and selling , I see no mention of the great flaw in our team.
    We do not have any big powerful players.
    Yet the entire central block of teams in the Prem. Would not go on to the pitch without three plus, very large and intimidating players.
    Leicester, what threat of relegation? Sack the manager, and return to the unit who won the league, a few very intimidating characters indeed(Huth, anyone) bow many seasons have they had great service from him. I wonder who was foolish enough to sell him(cheaply)
    You can go through the rest yourself, and do not forget man utd, the very large and powerful Swedish? Striker they hired this season is a fully paid up member of the heavy gang.

  99. plato – Ayala, Gibson, Gestede?

    I read Bernie’s piece, the line that made me laugh was his reference to ‘delusional fans’ apparently its not just some of us on here who are guilty of such accusations!!

    Reflecting, in the car crash/extreme disappointment this season has been its important not to take one’s self too seriously………

  100. Gentlemen there’s a football mad little lad just up the A19 fighting a far tougher battle than mere relegation. Football is important to all of us and it matters for all sorts of reasons, when its good its great (albeit unless you are a Manchelskiarsepool supporter you don’t get many good times) and when its bad it hurts but some things are far more important.

    I’m reminded of the saying “everyone likes a drink but nobody likes a drunk”, on here our motto should be “we all like a debate but not an argument”. At times we all overstep the mark, myself as much as anyone, “its not big and its not clever” as my Gran used to say. I have probably had as many if not more heated debates with BP than anyone on here but I would rather have lost every argument (there are no “winners” in any case in this context) and for him to have been proved right as it would have meant Boro would have been moving forwards.

    If I dug deep I could find cross purposes in plenty of my postings all based on what was happening at the time. I supported Aggers at the start and could see what he was trying to do and then changed opinion when it became clear he couldn’t steer us clear from the reef. I had a reasonably positive opinion about some of our early summer purchases and had high hopes for a few and less so about others in particular Barragan. To balance that I had a few hissy fits about Albert going and “debated” with vigour why we should have retained him and don’t start me on the Gestede signing.

    Its all opinions, 80% of them probably based upon the last three or four results with 20% the previous few months. Its good to talk and being honest its cathartic for most of us but remember we all want the same thing even myself and BP ultimately.

  101. Having read Antony Vickers report on Karanka in the Gazette I wonder if he had inside knowledge of Karanka’s methods or is it just his opinion.

    He may be right but like most journalists (and politicians) he does not use the words “in my opinion”.

    We may never know what went on behind closed doors, but in some ways I can understand Karanka’s frustration because according to reports he worked long hours, the players enjoyed his coaching sessions, and some even said he improved them as players.

    I had no qualms about his disciplinarian attitude (it worked for Bruce Rioch) and I think he did the job he was asked to do by the Chairman in getting us promoted in three years but maybe didn’t seek advice on how to become more attack minded in the Premier League especially at home.

    His criticism of the fans was unwarranted and in my opinion unforgivable and that is why he had to go, but I do believe he will reflect and learn from his mistakes to not only become a good coach but in time maybe a good manager.

  102. Ken

    Maybe the local journos bend with the wind.

    I remember Vic’s forge where Strachan was producing players with iron because we were too wimpish. His tone now is that the Strachan era was horrific. He has to pander to his audience and the club, he is like us but writes for a living as a football supporter. Best job in the world and I am jealous.

    I heard Darren Gough come up with an interesting line. Ronald Koeman has publicly giver an ultimatum to Barkley to sign his next contract in the next ten days or he will be sold.

    (For all the criticism of AK and his handling of Albert the only stuff about the negotiations in the public domain was from Albert’s brother).

    Back to Barkley, Goughie suggested maybe Barkley should go to Koeman and ask him to sign a piece of paper committing Koeman’s future to Everton.

    Loyalty works both ways, part of the problem at Derby was him getting players to sign extensions and bringing in new players then dallying with Toon.

  104. I seem to remember discussions on Untypical doubting the dressing room morale and being told it was the bestest ever and they were all happy bunnies. Some of us were less than convinced at the time and a right lot of doubting Thomas’s we must be.

    Seems like we weren’t so far off the mark!

  105. Redcar Red

    Listening to the likes of Carragher and co, when you are winning, if you are favoured then things are great. If you are not then things are pants.

    The same goes when you are losing, performances improve if you are in the stand. Jordan Rhodes must be brilliant at Wednesday, barely playing, few goals or assists, perfect.

    As I have posted many times, there is a charge sheet for managers and the table never lies. Gary Neville summed it up, no sympathy, we were just not good enough.

    Is there any point in second guessing because it changes nothing? We cannot change anything.

      1. This is a Facebook post about an encounter this week with Karanka on the same plane as a Boro fan

        Quote ”

        on the flight home and asked a few questions for every boro fan wondering….. 😝

        He said he’s definitely not going to
        sunderland.
        The signings in January were not made by him and made by the board.
        Hes here visiting his family who still live here and don’t want to leave.
        He wants to come back and try again next season at the boro. 😳
        Jordan Rhodes wasn’t getting picked because other players were better.
        And winning promotion was the best thing that happened to him in his Career and he even showed me pictures on his phone of the celebrations after.

        Think i done well all in all 😂. And he was a top bloke.

        ” Unquote

    2. Second guessing, its better than no guessing, the management had the chance of a lifetime when we ran up a list of games against the big teams and played beautifully, even the media thought that we might be on to something.
      What followed was down to the management, no one else.
      The most obvious was his grasp of the lingo, and that could have been fixed.

  106. Can someone remind me of what Karanka said about the fans,that was so bad ,I honestly can’t remember.
    I do remember McLaren during a bad run saying we need educating.when he was getting gip.

    1. gt

      5 minutes from the end of the West Ham game, with Boro 2-1 down, a few in the South stand chanted ‘Attack, attack, attack.’ It wasn’t many. Most of the ground was still being very supportive, and even those who chanted were, in my opinion, only urging the team on. We lost. Of course. Later AK appeared to blame fans generally for our tactics in the last few minutes of the game. He said the chanting had made the players change their style and play long ball. It was utterly ridiculous. It seemed a classic case of passing the buck, and without any kind of rational reasoning behind the comment. I was one of his biggest supporters, but he properly peed me off that day.

      1. Clive

        A very accurate statement of what happened

        The fans were really trying to get behind the team and were very vocal

        He finished me that day too and I wanted him away from my club

        OFB

  107. By the way, in response to OFB’s description of the encounter with Karanka, I still categorically refuse to believe that AK was not in charge of transfers. We have again read this week in the EG how he micro-managed every last aspect of the club and the players’ lives. I simply cannot believe that this obvious control freak would allow others to dictate who signed and who didn’t.

    1. Very good point Clive. In his interview in the New York Times he left the author in no doubt that he ran the club top to bottom, no argument, no moderation, he was the boss. His claims are also rather at odds with Bamford’s account of their conversation after the Burnley game.
      I think its just indicative of a man who can’t accept his responsibilities. A bit like his mentor.

    2. Clive
      You are saying that he signed Rhodes, him and him alone, and then left him out, for the rest of the season, and then sold him with the Champ, hurtling towards us.
      Sorry, my imagination will not stretch that far.
      The trouble with having a group charged with the buying and selling, is straight forward enough, they insist on buying and selling players.
      See Wengers statement to the press and weep. ” no one will buy or sell any player at this club but me”
      When we decided to get rid of AK we rejected an automatic placecin the top six in the Champ

  108. Thanks Clive
    I remember now
    I’m not defending Karanka but it seems he took it personal,he didn’t know the history of the chant.
    I think as a coach I might be concerned the players start going long with low percentage passes ,thus giving the ball back to the opposition where they can keep ball and waste time.

  109. Going to give this a second go. I’d typed 90% of it, then pressed the wrong bloody button and lost it all!

    This is my blueprint for next season.
    1. Get in a new manager as soon as the season ends. Agnew is not the answer. The new guy needs to hit the ground running to get on with the clear-out and line up the new signings.
    2. I don’t want some wizened old hack. I don’t want Pardew or Warnock or Redknapp, nor even Martin O’Neill, whom I said I fancied a while back. I want a young, dynamic, successful manager. Think Wagner at Huddersfield or Phil Parkinson who’s done an amazing job at Bolton, or even those two brothers at Lincoln City.
    3. If I owned the club, my first interview question would be,’What style of football do you intend to play and how will you make that happen?’ If the answer is, ‘I’d play to Gestede’s strengths and play it long,’ then the guy should be shown the door. I want us to create a bold, fluid, attacking side a la Tottenham, where forwards and midfielders play interchangeably and without fear. I want us to be the side that outscores the other team, even if we concede a couple in the process.
    4. That means we need a couple of pacy, tricky wingers like Jamie Ward at Forest or Jacques Mahogma at Birmingham, or like Tom Ince (but not him, obviously!) – wingers who can actually get behind the full-backs and cross the ball!! Now there’s something we haven’t seen at Boro for a while ………
    We will also need a couple of pacy, creative midfielders. I’d go for Will Hughes at Derby, or that little guy who played for Brentford then disappeared at Spurs. Name escapes me. Could Viktor Fischer be the answer? I’m not sure Stewy is any more, good club servant though he is.
    5. Play Bamford up front. Pair him with someone good. Stuani? Probably not. Gestede? At this level, maybe. Ideally, it would be Jordan Rhodes, but that ship may have sailed. So I’d go and get Britt Assombalonga at Forest. Big, sharp, powerful, hungry.
    6. I think Ben and Chambers will go, sadly. So build the defence around Ayala and Fry. George at left back – if he stays – or Husband. Fabio on the right, if someone can teach him better positional awareness. And put Connor Ripley in as first choice keeper.
    7. Give the young lads from the academy their chance. Fry, Ripley, Harry Chapman, Calum Cooke could all play a part. They’re hungry and desperate to play for Boro.
    8. I know I’ve already spent more than Jeremy Corbyn has promised to spend, but I also think we need a couple of bruisers – experienced, hard-nosed, battle-scarred pros who understand the Championship. Of course, if we keep Ayala, Grant and Clayton, we’ve solved the problem!
    9. Get rid of the deadwood and the mercenaries. Negredo will almost certainly leave, though I’d keep him if we could. Not sure about Valdes? Barragan, Bernardo, Guedioura, De Pena, on your bikes, lads. Ramirez can go and play at Crook Town for all I care. The name suits him. I would keep de Roon, who I think could do well at Championship level. Not convinced he was ever worth £14 million, though.
    10. You’ll notice that I’ve loaded my squad rather with British players. I’m not averse to getting in some young, tricky foreign talent (if I trusted Orta and Gill to look beyond Aston Villa) but we’ve made those mistakes before. In any case, the Champo is so hard to get out of and so physical that many foreign players find it a struggle.
    11. Finally, how do you solve a problem like Adama? As someone said above, he could tear the Championship to pieces and terrify defenders. Trouble is, he terrifies me whenever he loses the ball. He’s still a project. If the new manager can turn him into a real footballer, he could be absolute dynamite. If not, he’d be an absolute liability.

    So, there you have it lads and lasses, my blueprint for promotion next season. And you know what, I bet fans who haven’t renewed would turn up in their thousands to watch this Boro tearing up the league. Cheers.

  111. Karanka

    We all can recall moments in our past when due to perhaps stress, tiredness or frustration when we said something and regretted it later.

    I believe 100% that the board members and staff bought the players. I think it was part of the agreement from day one between Karanka and the club.

    Aggers

    Aggers will happily go along with the same agreement and consequently there errors will continue in the recruitment department. Aggers will be a Head Coach not a manager.

    The club is a ‘shambles’ because of the way decisions are structured. Sam Alladyce would wet himself with laughter. Martin O Neil was having none of it. Only the desperately ambitious and the meek would accept it.

    Another day another euro 🙂

  112. Spartak

    I was typing something along the same lines but had to drop Mrs G at the station so didn’t actually post.

    Karanka’s background is in Spain, from what we know the tendency is to give the coach his players and judge him on how ell the team does. The recruitment is done by the club, the director of football springs to mind.

    I am sure there will have been discussions about what was needed and AK will have been involved. The recruitment team then gets on with it and he gets given what they bring in.

    The problem was probably that when he finished unwrapping the presents he got the driving gloves, a car cleaning kit and a hands free kit. Sadly, when he opened the front door the same old Morris Marina was on the drive and the Maserati he wanted was nowhere to be seen.

  113. Looking at the media there seems to be a lot of anti Karanka reporting at the moment ironically from many who were staunchly pro Aitor during his tenure.

    Whilst Aitor was a lot of things and many of them negative there were other factors which I believe to be of far greater blame and fault which contributed massively to our demise.

    It was very clear that AK was Head Coach and that Recruitment was conducted by the club which is not unusual these days. The Club had instilled AK’s principles and methodology throughout which again made sense and laid foundations. The Recruitment should reasonably and intelligently have integrated seamlessly into the methodology and playing style that was very clearly established. Style, methodology, tactics, formation and player profiles required to fit rather than shoehorned (Stuani, Rhodes, Downing, Gestede etc.) wasn’t a difficult concept. Had we signed Anichebe as an example instead of Rhodes it would have made more sense, a kind of cut price bargain Lukaku, big strong and able to hold the ball up and bag a few. I’m not saying that I think we should have signed Anichebe but there would have been understandable logic behind it.

    As we obviously failed to sign Deulofeu had we say uncovered Grosicki instead of Hull (with us all scratching our heads saying who?) again it would have made sense as that was the type of player needed to fit the system. Putting aside my personal issues on signing Gestede, as a player he is a big target man but nothing else, we don’t play with two up front so what on earth was the logic behind his arrival? His style is in stark contrast to AK’s mantra and made no sense whatsoever.

    I get the Bamford signing, he had his best spell with us and I think he will rediscover his confidence and form next season but again in January was that what AK really needed? As a project longer term OK but AK needed something for the here and now. two pacy wide players and a creative central midfielder who could open up games and get a few goals himself. No disrespect to Adlene Guedioura but I don’t seem him having any of those traits.

    What was a Head Coach supposed to do? AK made his requirements crystal clear (and the fans had identified exactly the same) yet what was delivered was an eclectic mess. Naughty stepping, stubbornness, poor substitutions were all AK,s fault, no argument. Passing paralysis and a negative GD mentality was all AK’s fault but he needed a screwdriver and a hammer in January (and last August) but was presented with a soup spoon and a butter knife, WTF!!!! comes to mind.

    So my beef is whilst deconstructing and destroying AK after the horse has bolted (in an incredible and two faced turnaround) how about journalists asking the real questions about what was going on behind the scenes (and lets be blunt, behind AK’s back) that was totally dysfunctional? Why are they still in place? Who signed the cheques for their follies and what on earth possessed them to sign those cheques and what is now going to change?

    AK was a part of the problem but the causes of our Premiership failure was not solely Senor Karanka’s it was Institutional failure and incompetence on a grand and blindingly obvious scale.

    1. Steve Gibson ‘We didn’t see that coming!’

      It appears history repeats itself.

      Incestous, sychophantic, ‘the emperor’s got no clothes’, shambles.

      Still, AK makes for an easy scapegoat!

  114. Couldn’t agree more RR.
    I particularly hate the character assassination from people who previously would have nothing said against AK.
    Like him or not, he put heart and soul (and long hours) into the job. Unfortunately, some of his typically Latin traits were part of his downfall but I agree that this season was a collective failure (yes I’m looking at you Gill, Orta and co.)

  115. Steely

    I am going to change my name, Gill doesn’t seem very popular at the moment.

    What is interesting is that those who were Karankanistas and those who Aitored him are coming to the same conclusions. He should take his share of the blame but the rest have left him holding the ball outside the broken shop window.

    Redcar Red, Ian notrelatedtoGaryGill, Spartak all reading off the same hymn sheet.

    I need a lie down.

    1. I’ve just noticed I’ve been sold short like AK!

      You do all the hard work and then find that someone else has put their name to the “Boro Bus Crash” write up, can I blame Orta and Gill?

      😉

      1. Tis God’s will, RR or fate or somert else.

        How many times have ideas, words, even phrases been purloined from our merry band of posters to find their way splashed upon the e-pages of some washed-up local rag masquerading as a ‘premium’ source of informative for the local washed masses?

        😉

      3. Sorry RR, I didn’t notice either and your name wasn’t even in the graphic too! Though to be fair it was after midnight and a few glasses when I posted it up – your article has now been rightfully credited!

      4. I hadn’t noticed until scrolling down today so shows how alert I was, at least you can blame the lateness of the hour and the Vino!

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