The headlines before KO was all about Boro going 6 games without a win which for a team fighting at the wrong end of the table is not all that remarkable but with Hull beating Liverpool 2-0 and Sunderland’s 4 goal demolition of Palace fresh from the video printers that gap had suddenly closed and the pressure was on before a ball was even kicked.
The Boro Line up was pretty much what we expected with the additions of Downing left protecting Fabio and Chambers in at RB in place of Barragan. Chambers seemingly recovered from his stress fracture remarkably quickly from the initial prognosis was probably not looking forward to his evening appointment with Son.
It unsurprisingly was another backs to the wall job with a stalwart Boro back line that did break once with Traore whose cross found Negredo’s head who unfortunately couldn’t find the net. After that normal business was resumed with Spurs constantly camped around the Boro 18 yard box for the rest of the first half.
In an incident that could come back to haunt Valdes he got himself embroiled with Dele Alli who had tapped his arm (“tapped” as oppose to saying a “grab” would have been an exaggeration) but the former Barca man reacted furiously pushing Alli on the side of his face and then following it up with a finger jab up the nose of the 20 year old. Luckily Clattenburg seemed to dismiss it as handbags but Victor will now be retrospectively sweating on a possible ban for his actions.
Boro did have the very rare nosebleed upfield and one chance fell to Forshaw who stereotypically aimed for the corner flag and still missed. Just before the twenty minute mark as Spurs once again had us under the cosh, Traore found himself in the RB slot with three white shirts closing him down and with a combination of his footwork, deft touches and raw talent he managed to beat all three and clear it upfield (only for it to come straight back at us again as Negredo was hopelessly outnumbered).
Five minutes later Downing put in a cross but Negredo was adjudged to have fouled Lloris with an arm across the Keeper’s arms as he came to collect. The pressure at the other end was building a head of steam despite the odd Boro cameo in the Spurs half and Harry Kane popped up in the middle of the 6 yard box and slotted the ball in but fortunately for Boro the Lino spotted he was a foot offside. Phew, that was close, too close.
Chambers was being given an afternoon from hell with Son busy trying to unlock the Boro defence and whilst it was a tough job the Arsenal loanee stood his ground and whilst not keeping him totally at bay certainly kept him less effective or should that be destructive than he was at The Riverside earlier in the season.
Most of the Spurs attacks were coming down the opposite flank keeping Fabio and Downing pegged back and busy. Just before the half time whistle Fabio took off from the ground with one of his customary leaps outjumping the frustrated Kane. Seconds later Mr Reliable got his head to another ball that he had no right to win again clearing the danger. The Half time whistle went and after the continual bombardment Boro remarkably still clung to their defiant clean sheet.
The 2nd half started with a brief bit of Boro positivity but then reverted to sitting deep and inevitably the breakthrough came for Spurs fortuitously via a Bernardo challenge and Son going to ground in a theatrical arched dive. Harry Kane stepped up and 1-0 as he smashed the ball into the bottom right hand corner with Valdes going the wrong way.
With half an hour or so left AK brought off Downing and the workmanlike Forshaw but in truth neither had done a lot in terms of creativity but both like their other 9 comrades had tackled, blocked and chased shadows for most of the evening.
Guedioura and Stuani came on but the Boro shape didn’t change with Stuani wide left and Guedioura slipping into Forshaw’s role. Boro did start a few more attacking movements and Guedioura did have a shot but it was to the same standard as the man he replaced going hopelessly well wide. The ex-Watford man struggled to get up to pace with the game and gave a few careless passes away but then started to ping some interesting balls in particular one for Negredo that was just a yard too far only to see Lloris pluck it out of the air.
A corner won by Bamford had Spurs nervous who desperately hoofed it clear in a very un-Spurs like manner only for Clayton to launch it back in from the half way line but unfortunately straight out of play for a goal kick and that summed up Boro’s afternoon.
As we pushed for an equaliser Fabio played an inviting cross from the left to the far side of the box to the waiting Bamford and Negredo and “athletic Alvaro” pulled off an overhead kick which went undeservedly wide.
Two minutes into added time and Fabio again launched a ball forward for Negredo to knock it down for de Roon, unmarked, but his scuffed shot went wide of the post. As the seconds ticked down a handball 30 yards out gave Boro one final opportunity to launch it back into the box but too little too late as Mark Clattenburg blew up.
Another narrow margin game for Boro although it has to be said with 35% possession and little intent we can hardly feel too aggrieved. Defensively heroic but not a single shot on target and Lloris’s shirt as clean as when he ran onto the pitch tells its story, not a speck of dirt or a drop of sweat.
Our attacking intent near the end showed some promise and perhaps had we showed a little more positivity during the game we could have got something as Spurs did look nervy at the back but in the end it was all in vain. Losing at White Hart lane isn’t going to define our season but same old Boro with not a single attempt on target and the pack closing just shows how damaging those “winnable” games from earlier in the season have now become.
When we play with intent, as in the very closing stages, we do carry a threat. It is all just so falling that we never set out with that intent from the start in any fixture. If we did I am certain we would win more than we lose because of it.
Everton just hit some good form in time to confirm that we are not in their league before we play them again.
Falling should have read galling
One thing I have read in posts is lack of fight, that Is unfair.
Lack of intent, lack of quality are fair but when we remember some of the displays under Gate, Stricken and even Mogga I cant accuse the current squad of lack of fight.
To me the biggest problem is lack of quality. Continuity passing as our midfield players are better suited to leads to muggings against good quality players. That means we cant build any sort of meaningful play.
The cameo from the new man showed promise, he was looking to pass forward but it was a cameo.
Interesting comments from the touchline – I had radio Tees on in the background and watched the TV, AK was urging Stewie forward but Stewie was saying he couldn’t leave Fabio exposed to Walker.
Of the players on show you cannot fault them for effort. We lack quality.
Was there an argument for a different front-line?
Well put Ian.
AK was urging Stewie forward but he couldn’t leave Fabio exposed to Walker… revealing. Indeed. The off-the-ball contribution that is easily missed by solely focusing on goals and assists.
Now, I’d just like to share some quotes from AV.
“Boro generally dealt with the direct assault well…”
“Boro put together some good shapes in midfield. There was some crisp, short passing and fluid movement that pushed the ball around neatly. But was it effective?
“Clearly it wasn’t. Boro’s most eye-pleasing passing tends to be elaborate but harmless and in the middle third with slick sidewards movement and tight triangles making for slow, steady and often telegraphed progress forward.
“That allows the opposition to drop back in numbers to pack the defence, close down on a line 25 yards out, prevent probes down the flanks and force a frustrated final ball into a crowded box…”
“It took one slip at the back – stop me if you’ve heard this before – to hand (the opposition) victory from the spot…”
“Pointless possession and passing completion ratios are not what matter. Moving the ball unopposed along the half-way line may bump up the stats but it will not hurt the opposition.”
“If you don’t score then you are a hostage to fortune and it only takes one slip at the back. And we are good at those.”
“It is a crazy self-inflicted pressure that Boro invite on themselves. And (our goalkeeper) was by far the busier keeper.”
“Somehow Boro have to find an edge…”
Are Vic’s quotes about AKBoro, West Brom and Spurs?
No.
They’re about MoggaBoro, Coventry and Doncaster.
But they do sound like one and the same…
Yes Simon they do, and Mogga got the sack.
Not going to say anymore about the game. I’ve said it for months and people know how I feel. I wish I could switch off and not care but I can’t. Not only do I resent the the tactics employed but everything that has come out of AK’s mouth over the last two weeks has made me cringe and be angry in equal measure.
On a lighter note what a brilliant caption RR. You should do this for a living!!
Captions and creative artistry all 100% Werders hard work!
Chambers was under the cosh because of Traore. Yes it is good to have his attacking threat, but he offers nothing defensively.
With three defensive midfielders, one of them should be coming across to deal with that if the winger is there purely to attack.
Let’s go back to 4231 now, 433 is not working on any level.
Let’s get Chambers back to where he belongs, in CD. If Friend is injured, play Husband at LB and Fabio at RB [who has been a genuinely good surprise this season].
I think we will go down, but with a different manager we have a decent chance of coming straight back up.
Boring, boring football.
I agree, unfortunately Boro have become predictable and a bit boring. The smarter premier league teams have worked out how to get that single goal needed to beat us and they know that’s all they need because we can’t often get that goal back.
Fabio does look good, I think he has been one of the best this season.
Chambers did have some moments trying to negate son,but he is in the team because of his strength on set pieces,and he is excellent defending them,
It was a performance that was confusing to me,there didn’t seem to be a pattern ,unless you obviously watch us defend most of the time,the times we had the ball we were very poor,I think the midfield guys are finding it tough at this level,the initial promotion buzz, is fading, we need Ramirez, and I can sympathize with Karankas frustration on not signing the ones he wanted, and that seems strange as Steve Gibson ,with the help of Kenyon didn’t get it done,as he normally does.
I think we will go down,but I thought that at the start,we are nieve to say the least,
I think some fans icalling the manager to be sacked is not the way ,itis not good for moral, you know it spreads to the changing room,
A bit of luck might help,
I know we have tough run in, and I’m not sure who the others around us play, but if we are playing the top teams, does that mean teams around us play each other?
Bed of roses more like the stuff spread around em ! Best squad in the world is this the same Manager who berated the club for only signing championship level players. Hear those footsteps , thats the sound of the chasing pack rapidly catching up. The Manager may not be worried about our league position but I sure as hell am !
Well, I didn’t expect to get anything at Spurs, so to lose 1-0 to a penalty might not seem too bad.
I wish I could be that sanguine. That was an awful performance which had relegation written all over it, whatever the defensive qualities. We deserved absolutely nothing. I know Spurs were excellent, but we were just woeful. Why on earth did we not have a go at them much sooner than the last 5 minutes? How does Karanka expect to regain the point we were already losing if he doesn’t switch the formation and drive the players forward?
No shots on target again today, and barely a chance created. I’m now very worried, after today’s other results. I think we must now be favourites to go down. We simply won’t score enough goals. The spectre of the Championship looms large.
Ian, the problem is not lack of quality but AK’s defensive obsession. There is enough quality in the squad to do much better than we are but one of the BBC on-line commentators summed it up when he said that Boro’s problem is that they sit so deep that when they win the ball they have very limited options on what to do with it. This is how AK sets the team up to play and so he is responsible for the inevitable result.
As RR says in his as ever excellent report, the team looked a different side when they showed more attacking intent at the end of the game. So why not show the same intent from the start?
We are in deep, deep trouble and slipping closer to the relegation places by the week. Playing the way we have been playing all season and played yet again today – only two touches in the Spurs box the whole of the first half and zero shots on target the entire game – will without any doubt see us back in the Championship next season with all the implications and repercussions that will ensue
We must win some games – draws and narrow defeats will not keep us up regardless of goal difference. To win games we have to score goals which requires a major shift in emphasis away from ultra-defence and a lot more towards a focus on attack. Today for me it would have made much more sense to have thrown more resources and effort into attack in the second half even if it meant we lost by more than one goal. Who knows, by doing so we might have won but AK’s substitutions were conservative in the extreme – Spurs must have been very relieved to see Traore taken off – and surprise, surprise we came away with nothing.
No doubt Boro Phil will dig out some imaginary positives from the game but in reality there were none. Time is rapidly running out and the moment has now surely come to follow the Delboy philosophy – who dares wins.
”
One thing I have read in posts is lack of fight, that Is unfair.
Lack of intent, lack of quality are fair but when we remember some of the displays under Gate, Stricken and even Mogga I cant accuse the current squad of lack of fight.
To me the biggest problem is lack of quality”
Spot on really. As the years pass by Ian, I find myself agreeing with you more and more – I don’t know if this is you or me changing positions or whatever but there you go.
I thought we battled hard today and were a bit unfortunate to lose, but it was never a game where we would have expected much – only Leicester from the bottom teams have got a point there this season.
No need for imaginary positives, boroexile. We have a real positive – in the middle of a bad run, and still outside the bottom 3 with all our rivals to play again. I can’t wait.
BP, I have to say I admire your consistent positivity, deluded though it is. You are absolutely right about lack of intent but not lack of quality. If the current Chelsea team was set up to play the same way as we played today they would also struggle to score. The manager is responsible for the criminal lack of intent and the consequent dreadful run of results. If he stays he will take us down for sure so SG has a decision to make and he needs to take it soon.
I couldn’t believe how many times the BT commentary team went over and over again about Valdez allegedly striking Dele Ali.
It was no more than a nudge !!
Absolutely disgraceful trial by television
Sorry Bob….that was not nudge. He was very very lucky to get away with it.
Nudge ??
And I used to be a class 1 referee!!
Well I am biased I think the attitude of the presenters got to me it was all Spurs Spurs Spurs
For me it was all handbags but Valdes with his experience knows you cannot raise your hand to an opponent that said Alli was spoiling for it. There was no punches or anything that would have impaired or injured anyone apart from the small man syndrome finger pointing. It was intentional on Alli’s part to wind Valdes up just as much as Valdes stupidly getting embroiled in something ridiculous.
Sorry.Ian……but i must have missed them. Cannot say I have seen any comments on here berating the players for lack of fight.
Plenty of other faults but effort no.
Pedro
I read Ian as saying that you couldn’t berate the players for lack of effort, but lack of quality and as I and several have mentioned, lack of intent.
I think most people would equate effort with fight.
Intent is the killer and that is what is driving us down and intent is what the manager gives to the team to take into the game itself.
My Dad used to teach me that the higher up the ladder you aim for, the higher you will end up. Aim for the top rung and maybe you will end up on rung number 5 or 6. Aim for rung 5 and you are likely to end up on rung 9 or 10. Aim to play not to be beaten, you are more likely to end up getting beaten than winning or drawing.
Intent is what is killing us. The quality might not all be champions league standard, but it’s more than good enough to compete and hold its own in this class. But, if the intent is not to be beaten, then even if it was Barcelona playing, the result is going to disappoint many more times than it will reward. Football is game about winning so that is the intent you have to have. Failure to appreciate that will all most certainly lead to failure.
Intent. The team lacks intent and the buck stops in one place for that
Pedro
The odd comment on previous posts, certainly in comments elsewhere.
At the start I thought we would lose, and wouldn’t score.
But the fact we only conceded 1, and dropped to -8 means we keep it tight.
AK is right, goal difference is very important, it will mean relegation or not. I can’t find the article but I am sure read somewhere that a GD less than -14 generally means staying up. Or was it worse than -14 means relegation…
Teapot, on current form goal difference will be irrelevant as we will not have enough points for it to apply.
This blog, and the heartfelt contributions by manyposters, are the best thing about the club. The team aren’t and this manager definitely is not. When is Steve Gibson going to see sense? Karanka is a hopeless manager, leading this team straight back to the Championship with this flaccid, turgid style, too many gormless signings, and after another national embarrassment live on TV (to add to the long list) we know that relegation is as sure as night follows day. We are certainly the worst team in the Prem on current form – how on earth has it been allowed to come to this?
Teapot – ordinarily a goal difference of -14 or better may mean staying up, but that would generally be for a team that has scored considerably more than us. You can have -14 by winning big and losing some big.
Our problem is, and forever has been, that our -8 is derived from losing by 1 goal margins repeatedly.
Anyway, I’m perplexed that anyone can take positives from today, saying that we didn’t expect to get anything is ridiculous enough (do you think Sunderland expected to win by 4, or Hull to win?) but the manner of our defeat – I.e. Without having any attempt to attack or win is sickening.
More than likely we are going down, and what’s worse is that it is without a whimper. We’ll probably be relegated with the best defensive record of any team ever to be relegated, but that is the way we are heading.
We need wins immediately. To get those we need goals. To get those we need shots on target. To get those we need shots and good set pieces. To get those we need to attack. To do that we need the right players in the right system on the pitch in the rift position. To get that we need, what exactly? A new manager?
Without a change of manager we’re down, simple as that.
The Spurs loss was no different to any this season and while we, deludedly, seem to take solace from our ‘form’ away against the big teams, the reality is that it’s two points and two goals only from four games.
Relegation is guaranteed if we go on with AK. Hull and Swansea, thanks to managerial changes, have reinvented themselves while David Moyes has years of doing well in the Prem behind him. He knows the league and what it takes and, crucially, has a goalscorer who contributes very little during 90 mins but regularly hits the net…
The fact we have these teams to play does not guarantee three points each time (they will be rubbing their hands too) just as relying on others to fail is flawed beyond belief and just sad.
Steve Gibson has overseen a quite dreadful season, and pre season planning, and needs to make amends right now. He has to otherwise we are down and this bunch of safety first tippy tappers will not flourish in the Championship either.
We all make mistakes and the mistake now is to continue with AK and why Gibbo backed him last month is beyond me. We like Bamford because of what he did before and is a nice lad but he hasn’t scored for two years. Only AK could buy into that. The other two will be gone this summer and I defy anyone to suggest they will make a contribution.
Through AK the club is being run into the ground, all to satisfy one man’s vanity (AK) and another’s stupidity (Gibson).
I doubt anyone loves the club more than Gibson, but swing the axe today Steve or we’re gone.
Am I missing something here? I watched the whole game (on telly, admittedly) and I saw Boro boot the ball upfield away from our box countless times. And countless times, I saw it retrieved by a Spurs player and pinged ruthlessly and slickly back towards our box. Time and again we ‘cleared’ the ball only for it to come back again. It was like Canute trying to keep back the tide.
So what was the problem? Well, Negredo up front on his own and no Boro player within 30 yards of him, for starters. And then, it was that our defenders were just banging the ball aimlessly forward anywhere, not apparently trying to find a blue shirt. Just hoick it away from the box. There was barely any attempt to hang onto the ball, to pass to a team-mate, or to run forward into space.
Now, if I can see that from my settee, why can’t our manager? Why does he put up with it? Why does he let the players get away with it? Surely, they didn’t play like that at Real Madrid, did they? What does AK hope to gain from playing this way? He must see that it isn’t working. Today, it was so bleedin obvious. And yet, he changed nothing.
I am now really starting to believe that he doesn’t know how to improve our attacking play. Or at least, that he doesn’t know how to improve it without losing the strong defensive capability at the back. That’s what happened against West Ham, and to a lesser extent against West Brom. We attacked more, but gave both sides far too much room.
I don’t know how he changes it. I do know that serving up more of the dross we got today without addressing the issues will see us fall through the trap door.
The definition of insanity is ‘doing the same thing again and again expecting a different outcome’.
If this is true that AK should be sectioned.
I have tried to remain positive about AK but his one dimensional approach is rapidly catching up with us and relegation is now looming. We all knew that this season was going to be a challenge and that finishing 17th would suffice, but our form is awful and and our lack creativity there for all to see. Draws won’t be enough now and we need to find a way of winning which our current system is incapable of doing.
If AK is unwilling (or unable) to change then we need to find someone who can.
it took us seven hours on the coach today to get to WHL due to a serious accident on the A19 resulting in us being stationery for ninety minutes. The ninety minutes we were stuck there was more exciting than the ninety minutes of the match!!
Apart from the last five minutes we never attempted to get anything out of the game and quite frankly it’s embarrassing that we didn’t have a shot on target.
We must be the most negative club ever to grace the Premier League and any feel good factor from achieving the dream last season has completely evaporated!
Two points off the bottom now,every team down there has a win in them and goals,we have neither. We are going out with a wimper with a manager that is so arrogant,stubborn and clueless to change it!!
If the inevitable happens SG has a decision to make because no matter what league we are in the style remains the same. When it was a means to an end (promotion) it was acceptable but week in week out season after season no thank you!!
Spot on Richard.
Annoyingly this has been coming for months and is only getting worse.
To stay up you need a decent home form. Forget away, any points away from home are a bonus but you must try to win as many home games as you can.
Our lack of intent to win games at home has been noticeable.
Its not even the quality that’s been missing it’s been the intent to win. Burnley aren’t great but they’ve won so many home games because they try to win. They don’t play to shut up shop from the first minute.
And their fans respond they adopt the mentality of the team. So they too don’t give up. We on the other hand have nothing to cheer. We make ourselves hard to beat. We very rarely look like scoring and when we do concede it’s game over. The players heads drop but so do the fans.
The lack of quality in our team is mainly the central midfielders. So ak plays three of them every game.
We struggled to score goals last season and in the fear of getting beaten this season we have gone even more defensive. Going down to three offensive players on the pitch at anyone time. As a result the attacking players are isolated and crowded out. Only traore looks decent as he’s the only one with the trickery and pace to beat two or three men. Poor downing/negredo et al. The tactics make them look worse than they are. They as individuals can’t be blamed as they never have any options and all players need options otherwise you always end up going backwards just to retain possession.
To sum it up. Least number of wins, least number of goals, least number of shots on target, least number of shots.
And despite all this evidence slapping ak in the face does he ever change? Does he ever try anything different? Not a chance!!
Btw it’s 00.45am and I’m still on this coach on the way home
True fan. UTB
Despite all the doom and gloom there are some positives.
We are still level with the champions so we should be happy with our league position. Oh and traore had another half of football where ak was able to help him from the touch line so in a few weeks he’s going to be the most tactically aware player ever!!
The fans didn’t shout attack attack so they’re are obviously learning. Ak said with the character shown today wins are just round the corner so we may even get a couple more by the end of the season. That is of course as long as the teams don’t up their game when they realise they’re playing us. (As ak suggested in midweek) I think he was saying it in relation to Man Utd vs hull. (I hope he didn’t see the hull Liverpool match today where it happened again)
I’ve also heard that the DVD reviewing the season is going to be released at half rrp due to the lack of goals and entertainment so that’s good. Although on the flip side I have heard that they are editing the audio so as to have a managers commentary on the DVD focusing on the defensive aspects of the game. So that the fans can continue to learn during the close season.
Ive also calculated that with us not scoring in six of our last nine games and having signed gestede who hardly ever scores and bamford who hasn’t scored for two years that statistically it would be almost impossible for all these anomalies to continue. So watch out Everton when big Rudy and paddy score a bagful.
So plenty of positives……
Safe journey home, nevergiveuponboro.
Meanwhile……..Muhammad Ali was able to rest on the ropes and wait until George Foreman had punched himself out, with several rounds of blocked and missed punches in the heat of the central African jungle, before Muhammad himself turned the tables and knocked the exhausted Foreman over, to regain the Heavyweight Championship of the World. Muhammad Ali was an absolutely exceptional boxer and athlete with a great boxing brain. There is an argument over whether he was the greatest of all time as some say Sugar Ray Robinson, others say ……….
That’s not the point. He was undeniably exceptional and, if not the very greatest of all time, he is one of those who could be included in the debate. Middlesbrough Football Club is NOT within that group of teams who might be argued to be great. It is not a club, for all its defensive boxing technique, that can expect to remain on the defensive for the almost all the match, and hope to dodge everything thrown its way. It might work every now and then, but will fail many times.
If 20 potentially knock-out blows are aimed our way, one or two are inevitably going to get through, however good our defence might be, and eventually we will be knocked down. If we do not have a knock out punch of our own then firstly the other side need not spend time worrying about punches we might throw but, instead, can concentrate on its own attack, and, secondly, we have a minimal chance of ever winning – as results seems to prove.
If something fails, it is fine to try it again, and if it fails again it might be worth having another go, or at least trying to improve on the execution of our plan. But if it fails, and fails, and fails and keeps on failing ad infinitum…… That should tell those in charge that another tactic is required. The new plan might also fail, but at least it must be worth the try.
No supporters want a club to subside meekly into relegation by repeating tactics which have repeatedly shown the same negative results. I suspect that the players know this, that the fans know this, and that Steve Gibson must have nightmares about it.
In the entire history of the premiership the lowest ever amount of shots on target is an average of 2.79 shots on target per game. (Achieved by West Brom)
Boro are currently averaging 2.33 shots on target a game.
To put that in context for boro to not have the lowest average number of shots on target we would need to have 14 shots on target in our next match.
14 is a quarter of our shots on target for the entire season thus far!!
Thanks for the match report RR and Werders “putting together”
There have been some good and interesting posts about the Spurs match, diverse in thoughts but the one point that has stood out is the attacking intent or lack of it.
BoroPhil, bless his positive cotton socks, said we battled hard, very true, and a bit unfortunate to lose!!
With the best will in the world I just cannot see how we were unfortunate. They absolutely battered us and should have taken us to the cleaners. I will accept that we could and should have may be scored at the end, but de Roon did not even get it on target.
AK sets up not to get beat, which is fine in some matches. But he sets up not to get beat in all the other matches also, including the ones we have to win against our so called rivals.
AK has painted himself into a corner with no escape. To win matches we need to score goals, which means we have to attack during the game for sustainable periods. But attack is not AK’s modus operandum.
Continuing as we are will end with only one certain result. Relegation.
AV said we would need ten wins to see us safe and eight draws. Well we have got the draws, but nowhere near getting the wins we will require, even though it won’t be ten.
Since the New Year we have gained three points with three draws. Palace have been beaten five times but still have three points with their one win. Hull and Swansea seven and nine points and the Swans still have a match to play. Only Leicester have less, one with a match today.
Look at the fixture list. There are a good number where teams in the bottom six plays each other, giving a good to gain ponts. Ours are arguably the hardest fixtures.
If AK cannot or won’t change his philosophy we are doomed. The club would end in turmoil, crowds drop, and Mr Gibson would have to sack AK and try to find the right person to start again.
That is if he had the energy to go through it all again. There will be people on here that would say…..we would bounce straight back. Well look at Villa. Look at Derby and the money they have spent.
We still have a small chance to stay out of the bottom three and acheive 17th place. But time is running out. AK may not be worried, but there plenty that are. I hope Mr Gibson is having sleepless nights.
I quite enjoyed the match on TV last night. The line-up was an expected one and the way we played was expected. We had two good chances to score and on another day we could have come away with a point. Sure Spurs deserved the points but still we were close.
Of course I am disappointed with the result but it was Spurs away. So we can still be kind of proud of our team.
We still have a good chance of staying up. It won’t be easy and we are well behind the target of one point per match average. We need a few wins to lever us up to that average.
I think we have a quite balanced team now. No big stars but a very stable squad. As Ian said we lack quality but we won’t be much worse or depentable on who we play on a given day. At least we got rid of some ‘dead’ wood – I think the players who had difficulties to get playtime got a fair deal and a transfer out.
I try to keep positive. As said we have a good (!) chance of staying up. And with the FA Cup we could still finish the season as the most successfull in our long history.
For me supporting Boro is living a dream and having a dream. Never give up on Boro!
Up the Boro!
Jarkko.
Your belief in Boro and your eternal optimism always gives me a bit of a lift.
I don’t think anyone here expected a result for us yesterday. I don’t think that is the point many of us is making. It is the way we set out simply to avoid defeat every single time that is grinding so many of us down. Yesterday showed that for 10 minutes of the 90 we can compete and can create a threat even against the teams that AK thinks are in a different league to us. Had we competed a the game I would have come way with optimism for the games when we are not up against the front runners.
At best it is going to be a close run thing if this mindset of AK does not change and to that extent I agree that it is possible we will survive. But that is relying on other teams’ failings and that is a very dangerous thing to be doing.
It is not like me to be pessimistic, but the AK approach to our football has made me so.
Powmill
Applying a bit of logic to the situation(difficult I know) but lets try anyway. First, if you are foolish enough to let the world know that you are going to defend, period. Then you are setting yourself up for the most disappointing period of your footballing life. Why? Because all teams that play you, and I do mean the whole cross section of the league from top to bottom, are , in fact not theory, being given a treat that is rare in professional football, yes, that’s right, ninety minutes of really interesting attacking, and its even better than it sounds because if, god forbid, an attack breaks down, your two guys idling their lives away in midfield simply give it to the best option, they don’t have to rush, just get it right and enjoy the game as an observer.
And whilst you are worrying about them failing to score, then don’t, because they have the draw that you are fighting for as a free gift, nice, or what.
As a further pleasure they can take their time about bringing on a penalty, there are plenty of methods, giving someone a good kicking in the box, the penalty for you is a free kick at the other end of the field, and if your victim loses his temper, well, yes, its a hard life. The other method was seen yesterday, lose the ball in the box, see that some player has his leg a bit close to you, fling yourself to the ground, you never know, the ref might be Clattenburg.
I still think that the biggest beneficiaries are the not very good teams, for them the freedom from the worry that they might fall behind must be a godsend, as witnessed by us at home this season.
At the end of the day loosing against Spurs is not the defeat that will get us relegated. It’s our inability to win games, stating the obvious I know, but we haven’t looked like winning games all season. Unfortunately I also believe we will get relegated. This frustrates me surely we would have been better getting battered a couple of times and getting a couple more wins by giving it a go. But having a go is not in the managers DNA. If AK is sacked or walks who would we replace him with.
Your guess is as good as mine!
What depressing viewing that was.
So, we are ‘going to give it a go’, good to hear and see that. What will it be like when we go all defensive. Sunderland score four away? When did we last score four, have we even managed four in four games?
The only momentum we have is towards the trap door.
Depressed after seeing that.
UTB,
John
AK’s modus operandi seems something like this.
“Don’t complete the pass and don’t create a gilt-edged chance unless you are explicitly, concretely sure that you’ll get it on target or score.”
“Don’t write me off and say we’ll go down unless we are explicitly, concretely, officially in the drop zone.”
Agreed?
No doubt he might point to the final five minutes and what would have happened if Negredo’s overhead kick had gone in and De Roon’s chance had been taken. He might also argue that United won the European Cup in 1999 the exact same way (until the final five minutes United had barely threatened!).
The trouble is… that’s United. We’re Boro. And in this division, we don’t have the kind of quality to regularly rely on late bursts of hope, or “Fergie Time”.
Simon
See above, any team once in a long while can do a stonewall, win or lose. To do it every game is suicide(see above)
The transition from defence to attack requires quick control, movement, surety of passing, quick control and so on. Our valiant workers are good at tracking, being compact but forward passing is not in their DNA.
De Roon is a destroyer from Atalanta, Clayton did a more attacking role at Huddersfield, Forshaw is a neat player who spent time at Wigan without really breaking in to their team, Grant is a midfielder with tons of character who busts a gut. They are continuity players.
There is no one there who can pick a pass. You can make good holding pairs in a two man midfield, there isn’t the third to be the quarterback to spread play if you play a three. There is no attacking midfield player with extensive top flight experience in there or even a midfielder with extensive experience for that matter)
The problem was we were getting overrun with a midfield two and switched to a three.
Against Spurs, we could not control the ball, as mentioned by several posters we didnt string passes together going forward, we lost most of the 50;50 balls, we were regularly mugged all over the pitch,
We did look better later on chasing the game but pinning a single reason is difficult.
We took off those with a bit of pace who could give us width and brought on ‘strikers’ which is opposite of our instincts to have Stewie and Traore as outlets. We bought on Guido – easier than remembering the spelling! Spurs were happy to take the three points.
I mentioned the comments overheard by Radio Tees with AK urging Stewie forward, those were in the first half.
I have no idea what to do next, we played the front three I wanted so AK needn’t phone me for any more advice.
My hope is that Gaston helps us turn it round, that George is back soon so we can have attacking full backs. Return to 4231 or whatever you call it, four attackers on the pitch.
That is hope not expectation.
Like most I’m all for praisin the lads that played & big buckets of kudos for the sheer physical effort they put in.
Question is when in the EPL how long can you keep bustin a gut without exhaustion settin in? You can boot the ball up the pitch to a lone, very alone striker as many times as you like but lets say 9 times out of ten it will come straight back at you & you’re back to bustin a gut again.
All the pressure for 80-85 minutes has to tell in a mistake at some point & you cant blame the defender for making it. Its too much to ask. Yes, Man U won their Champions League Final on the back of that but please what a stupid comparision – they did it once, Boro are being asked to do so for the whole season.
Who stupid bloody idea is it? What idiot thinks they could play all way through the season with that same strategy? And who in god’s name signed it off? Aitor knows it isn’t workin coz he wanted attackers in the transfer window & had a hissy fit when they didnt arrive. Did it not occur to him that players might not want to join the Boro grind circus?
I know lets be patient & trust that Aitor can get it right!
Sparta
On the evidence before us, this team is not going to survive. We can go through all the repeated reasons, but crystal clear before our eyes is a team short on muscle, short on height, and, above all short on tactics. Why on earth would you play Traore anywhere but along the front, why on earth would you ever give him a pass to his feet, all you need is a ball played through the line of defenders and let him run, at least it would give you some peace for a while and get the ball in their half.
I still think that we are getting bullied out of matches, where is Ayala?
We have surrendered the points to teams with very large attackers on at least four occasions, m utd, w ham, palace, Chelsea, Everton.
And don’t even mention dead balls, we are not, repeat, not, bad at dead balls, we are non existent, luckily only thirty eight per cent of goals come from dead balls. Aren’t we the lucky ones.
Pedro, I said a bit unfortunate in the sense that we worked incredibly hard and ultimately lost to a penalty and like you say, had a chance to grab a point at the end. AK will probably feel vindicated that his tactics nearly worked.
Yes, Spurs had chances and could have easily put us out of sight – but when you get points of the big teams that will almost always involve them missing some chances. Hull beat Liverpool 2-0 yesterday, yet Liverpool had 72% possession and 22 shots. I don’t see anyone labelling Hull as lucky.
I hear people saying they can’t see where another win is coming from – I can understand that when we haven’t won a league game for nearly two months and are at the bottom of the form table, but look at the teams we’ve beaten – Bournemouth, Sunderland, Hull and Swansea. We still have to play them all again – why can’t we beat them again? We have plenty of other winnable games against teams that we all thought we could have beaten first time round – eg Burnley, Southampton. Why can’t we win them?
Everton next week will be tough but I don’t see them as being that much better than West Ham or West Brom so I think we’ll give them a good game. Hopefully, Ramirez will be back and committed – I don’t think we should underestimate how much we have missed him. The next match after that is Palace away which will be huge. AK’s strategy will be expecting us to get something out of that and if we lose there alarm bells can well and truly start to ring.
There’s still a long way to go, I don’t see any reason to give up yet.
BP
Aitor is one dimensional. He said at a presser after not getting players to strengthen his squad ‘I’ll try (to keep the Boro up)’. That is not a man confident in his team or tactics
The lads wont give up till the last game & last kick of tbe match. Ultimately, the strategy has failed. De Roon said as much. Draws are not enough – only wins count!
We’ve managed 4 in 23. Can we manage 4 in 15? Its not impossible but as every game goes by the odds get longer.
‘We can beat the same teams again!’ You’re right BP why not? Well because they are not the same teams they’ve changed the personnel and/or the manager – totally simplistic nonsense to believe that a past result can automatically be repeated. Good god, if it were the case every man & his dog would cash in on the football pools.
Stroll on!
I suppose it would be simplistic nonsense if you very simply interpreted my post as meaning it could ‘automatically be repeated’ but as you well know that isn’t what I meant.
Will we beat the same 4 teams again? Who knows.
Could we beat the same 4 teams again? Of course.
But that was one of my points BP they are NOT the same. And as you rightly say Boro are no Champions League team.
I get the feelin yer clutchin at straws – understandable, but qhata is more dubious is ywr suggestin we all clutch at them together with you.
A change of manager is not often a solutution to save the place in the PL. Ask Palace fans – even Fat Sam cannot make miracles.
It will be an interesting spring. Up the Boro!
One example is never enough Jarkko. Fat Sam aint finished yet. He’s hardly been in the job a month at Palace.
Our main concern is AK’s Boro & now we’re 7 consequetive league games without a win & the game we won previous was not in a style to his liking.
However, no doubt you’ll laud him as a management god if we do manage to stay up by the skin of our teeth when in many fans opinions we could have done much better.
Petulance & a stubborn nature rarely add up to success. However, given this is the year 2017, following 2016 who knows what might happen?
Getting beat by Spurs who are second in the table is not a disaster or a surprise. What hurts most was the abject embarrassment of a Football Club being shown up around the world for what we have become the “anti-football”.
If I was a neutral I would be hoping Boro get well and truly stuffed each week and go straight down to League II after watching that and that is what really hurts because deep down we know that they would be right.
I work with non-Boro fans RR, and that isn’t the impression I get from them when we talk about our teams. In fact, the general consensus is that we’ve made a good fist of our first season back so far. I think we can all get caught up in our own Boro bubble and if we step outside it occasionally it can give us some different perspective.
BP, are there any people where you work who have seen Boro on the television or are they just being kind to you out of sympathy? Virtually all the people I meet who watch Premier League football are in line with RR’s view and can’t wait to see us relegated.
Avid watchers – we have a very competitive FPL game. I don’t think many of them have many Boro midfielders/attackers in their teams mind.
This nonsense about going to the big clubs and only getting beaten by one goal infuriates me, we are in the premier league and every team can be beaten but only by a side that shows intent and wants to win by scoring more goals than the other side. We pussyfoot around and go there with a mentality to defend defend and more defend,as some one said you get the ball back then use it,not just hoof it up field and hope for the best. After all thats what you have a midfield for.
If we have this mentality that we are not in their league then you lose before a ball is kicked and if our plan was to aim for 17th then as we all know then you set yourself up for a fall. I’m sure Cloughie never sent a team out with a defeatist attitude.
To see our style of football (timid devoid of intent ) representing Middlesbrough must be an embarrassment to Steve Gibson because I know it embarrasses me .
For Gods sake go hard or go home this Manager has turned us into a laughing stock! how many more unwanted records are we going to pick up before we slink back to the championship.
Change the tactics or change the Manager because he is living in lalaland.
My friends who are non Boro fans are laughing at our lack of intent and why sell Nugent and Rhodes when you are not scoring enough?
Who designed your shirt the Managers kids.?
BP
Here comes the cavalry or is it more Sioux coming over the hill.
I posted some figures the other day about converting ‘big chances’ and their were contrasts and similarities between ourselves and Burnley. The similarity was the fact they had roughly the same number of big chances.
The difference is they converted 60% and we converted 47%.
The last time I looked we were probably averaging close to 50% possession, Burnley well under 40%.
The difference is they are scoring and we find it difficult.
They are planning for next season and we are getting twitchy.
BP
Burnley are an anti football team but with a difference, they deliberately put high balls to the front of the box with three very heavyweight attackers jumping with the poor old defenders, and they don’t have to worry about penalties, and they do not try to make a goal, they just shoot. And the more they shoot, the luckier they get.
I’m less worried than I am despondent.
We’re now six points adrift of where I predicted/hoped we’d be at this point in the season. Mind you, I have us down as winning eight of the next twelve points. This now seems laughably optimistic.
I would like to see us have 8 shots on target in the next 4 games, never mind 8 points, unfortunately I don’t think we will. As was said earlier we now play one dimensional anti football. All that hard work to get to the PL and talk of giving it a go, well that makes st have got lost in translation with AK.
Well we got out of jail with the Man City result…..injury time winner. I wonder how much Sigurdsson will cost when he finally leaves, a good player.
Now we have to hope that AK´s mate can do us a favour. Relying on other results is not for the fainthearted.
BoroPhil….whilst I do not disagree with your thoughts on beating teams that we have beaten previously, i do have a problem with the “odds” of getting a double over said teams. Wonder what the Bookies would give us getting the double over
Bournemouth A, Sunderland H, Hull A, Swansea A, Burnley H. That´s 3 out the five away, then there is Palace A. Does not make good reading.
We are going to have to do something different and something we are possibly not capable of.
That’s exactly what I was going to write next after scrolling through the comments
Not often you do a double over a team when you are higher in the league let alone when you are virtually in a relegation spot
Ok, plenty of time to read and digest all the comments and views.
First of all, thanks RR for the review and a lot of respect for those who endured the long journey yesterday to support our team, in the likely knowledge that if would not be pretty or pleasant to watch.
I saw the game on TV and whilst in some respects, we did well to contain Spurs to 1 0, there are areas of concern in my view.
What was a solid defence last season has become a bit disfunctional, some of the hoofs up field smacked of panic and similar tomTuesday when RR description of keystone cops defending was so true. Was it that we were trying to avoid midfield altogether since we are ineffective in that area.
The lack of attacking intent remains the biggest worry to our survival. When will AK realise that to obtain 3 points, you need to create chances for the strikers and that to do that, you need to get players into forward positions in numbers. We will not stay up with draws or only a 1 0 defeat. As fans we want to see some intent that we may score at some point and that never looks likely, no matter how many strikers we have on the pitch.
I am not sure how A K and the current team would react to the Steau situation but it is what we want to see. At times I feel that we could have Negrado, Bamford, Gestede on the park and stil the plan would be play the ball backwards or sideways!
I would add to Pauls comment about the half price DVD, that it will be very short and rated as 18, only to be watched by those with strong stomachs! Entertaining it would not be.
As Haircut 100 said, where do we go from here………..
I really don’t know, I am a glass half full realist who has seen it all in 50 years of following the Boro and will continue to do so come what may. I was well aware of what this season would be like but not this bad to be honest. I want to see us make a decent go of it and fight. And for that to happen, AK must surely realise that a change is required and that he has to make the most of the players he has.
After fangate, I had thought that maybe AK should have gone although now I fear that changing now maybe too late. Let AK try his best to keep us up and dispense with his services at the end of the season come what may.
Slightly disheartening to write that but that is where we are and Mr Gibson will have his plan in mind. He is acknowledged as one of the best Chairman and owners and as a fan wants to do well. He has also seen the bad times and the fact that was not interested in taking the Chinese money says that he is in it for the long term. Maybe, there is a Plan C where he pockets this sessions windfall and see what happens!
Anyway, onward and upward, Everton next week, the attics will be to keep it tight, play for a draw, don’t concede and it will be Ok – another point closer to safety ( except that we need 3!)
UTB
Auto predict gets it wrong should be this seasons windfall and attics is of course tactics!
And another thought, I am wearing a T shirt that says Superior Football, Middlesbrough F C Premier League 2016 2017 exclusive. At this rate it will be exclusive and there may be an investigation under the trade descriptions act! But we can but dream!
Well to try and lighten the gloom and doom here is a piece of doggerel that I wrote last week when stuck indoors with man flu! Apologies to Jarkko and to others where the local dialect of the Boro speaking peoples is not their native tongue.
Boro Lad (Part 1) The Early Years
Me I’m only a Boro lad, just your average typical smoggie
I werk at Dorman, but not for Long and I was born in Doggy
With werks around big ships abound sailing on the oggy
They dumped their muck on our golden sands to make it black and soggy
But me I was, as happy as, allus playing in the clarts
With muddy knees and claggy hands, it reached me private parts
I played with Bert and Alf, just bairns and some other little gadgie
Went home at 12 to have some scran and with luck a bacon fadgie
Our mam just took a look at me and gave me such a smack
She sez, I think youse been jumpin in and rolling round in cack
Our dad came home and she told the news, and offit he did go
He said, don’t play in that muck again and I meekly told him so
He hit me head with such a whack, I had a big black cleggy
Then he Smacked me bum so hard it knacked and really made me leggy
Swaying there with me clarty clothes a Derty shirt still minging
Me mam and dad were really mad and me poor head was ringing
No bike for me cause we were poor I used to get a croggy
We never had a pet to share, a tortoise or a doggy
With not much money and with holey kegs we blagged an Alley Moggy
We saved her from a Netty hole, in a sack that was wet and soggy
When Baltic cold it nithered, it made me really freeziin
With coughs and cold and runny nose and an awful lot of sneezin
With sooty snow in the smoggy glow, from the werks that were never ceasing
Snowmen made with snow balls too, with giggles and some teasing
So, spring it came or so we thought, as the sun was lost in doggy
Blast Furnaces belched their filth and muck, so the town was always foggy
Our clothes were worn and with all the soot, they really did get hacky
Our dad said “mum, you never mind,” as he did a roll up with his baccy
She took the clothes and cleaned by hand she didn’t have a washer
She washed them over and over again and used a handled posser
Dad told Mam with a tear in his eye, “You know I’m really sosser
I werk so hard, not like the bloke next door, I think he is a tosser
He’s a pancrack man, a bit of a Doyle, a really lazy get
Laid in bed till the middle of day, then to the bookies for a bet
With bills unpaid and rent arrears, he’s up to his eyes in debt
Puts a sign on the door, that says to all, I’ve got Rooms to let
Come summer we offen walked the moor to Canny Yatton we would hike
It wore me down it was really hot, “can’t be doing this like”
No bait to eat in Woolly-back land so oggy raiding was the plan
Dragging our young un, hand in hand, whilst topping up me tan
Sprag Apples for lunch, we chomped the lot, I even scoffed the pips
Afta all that Scran with nowt else to eat, I had a dose of squits
I swore to God as I honked them up, no more for me it’s quits
But me mates they all just laughed at me and fell about in bits
Take the trunk road down to Dormo, for a dip at the hoary breakwater
Our sister came with her real best friend, she was an only daughter
With long blonde hair and eyes of blue she wasn’t like a divvie
We went to Rea’s a Lemon Top for me, but for her an orange mivvie
The sun shone down on those summers days, when I was really mafting
I was leaving school to go to Dorman Long to have a job in Draughting
I was really lucky a clever one, not a silly stupid daft un
I’d make my way in the Boro world and do my share of grafting.
I love it, OFB! Our very own Tennyson!
OFB
A literary work of art.
One thing sprang to mind about yesterday. We played three in midfield against two and got the run around.
Robbo was playing 352 and switched to a back four, when asked why he had done that he replied we weren’t defending with three centre halves so we may as well play with two.
We still got relegated!
So moving on, we may as well play an attack minded player as one of the three or switch to 4231.
Defending is all well and good and very understandable given the opposition but there has to be an outlet, a release valve to take the pressure off. We simply don’t have any planned tactical outlet other than hoof it up to Negredo which is unworkable at this level and quite frankly ridiculous, even Diego Costa couldn’t function under those conditions. The only other possible outlet is Traore who we hope will get his head down put on the afterburners and run and run and then what?
There has to be something to link up defence and attack. As Ian points out our midfield three have little finesse, creativity or pace. They break via a slow passing build up which hasn’t really cut it all season and now is beginning to look very painful and ineffective, and that is when we actually do try and attack.
At this level current tactics are not good enough. There were warning signs very early on in the season about those “winnable” games that we strangled a point out of. To expect to go an entire season at this level grinding out those draws was pushing the boundaries of anyone’s optimism a bit far.
The games discussed above, Bournemouth A, Sunderland H, Hull A, Swansea A, Burnley H and Palace A are games where we need to go for wins now. No doubt to do so will result in some losses but 3 points are valuable in the run in, 1 point ground out against those sides will see us go down.
Those sides have shown a change in momentum of late both positive and negative. Will they continue their form? who knows but they will be fighting to stay up for certain. I have no doubt that AK will do his best with what he thinks is best to keep us up but I’m not so sure if the Managers of those other clubs will have such an aversion to gambling for points.
Thankfully today Leicester and Swansea have faltered as well but looking at our run-in in for April and May we need points and much sooner rather than later. To get points we need goals and as unfortunate as that may be to AK that means attacking and creating chances. How many games do we wait to see an improvement is now open to speculation, meanwhile the bookies seem to have made their minds up on AK’s fate.
We all knew this season was going to be a hard one. I think what we didn’t expect was not only the poor ratio of goals for, but also the damning statistic of shots on target.
I will suffer all that if we can only stay up this season. Whilst some will say “oh it was better in the championship where we won most of our games.” and “it was exciting.” Well let me say I and many others have waited in the wilderness to get back to the premiership to see our team compete against the likes of the Manchester Liverpool Arsenal etc with skilled International players at the peak of their profession.
If we are “R” then obviously Ramirez, Valdez, Negredo and possibly Gibson would go and we would have to recruit to attempt to be promoted again.
But and it is a big but, if we hang on in there and stay up, we can build on a season in the Premiership and add more flair players like Stoke and WBA have done.
So I will be there on Saturday, I will sit and squirm and be patient. I shall be good and not be party to the cries of “Attack, Attack, Attack”. I shall support the Boro as we all do on this blog and keep my fingers crossed for three points.
UTB
Here here to that!
A bit of a pattern emerging amongst teams at the bottom:
http://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/middlesbrough/form/ten
RR…….A good indication of wins means points
I was at White Hart Lane yesterday, it was a tough watch for certain, but it was always going to be. Beat Karanka up all you like for his playing style/tactics, but to say he got it wrong yesterday is ridiculous. We were one mistake away from a point against a team challenging for the premiership title, a team with resources we can only dream of. A team building a stadium which will make the Riversde look like a garden shed.
Karanka played the way which was most likely to get us a result and came pretty close.
Where we struggled yesterday was as Ian has pointed out, in central midfield where we had three players who do not have the ability/skill set to gon the offensive and put the opposition under pressure.
The other weak point yesterday was the Traore/Chambers combo. Traore seems completely incapable of defending, and Chambers is clearly not a natural right back. Traore was also completely ineffectual in his attacking play, if Stuani had been playing we’d have been just as well off.
Stewie was also quiet, but then Spurs are a pretty damn good side in defence as well as attack. They simply didn’t give us a sniff.
I’ve got no problem with AK’s style playing away against the big boys, the idea of ‘going hard’ or whatever the phrase was, is pretty much the order issued to the Light Brigade.
There was always going to be a tough run this season when we didn’t win any, we’re in it now, hopefully we’ll come out of it soon enough to survive.
I’m pretty sure many Sunderland fans thought they were dead and buried with two points after ten games, but they’re still fighting. As must the Boro.
It’s going to be tight, but I think the odds of us staying up now are just as they were in August.
As for what other fans think of us, tell it to someone who gives a damn.
Sorry Nigel, but as much as I admire your support and travelling to WHL I saw a different game.
Yes Traroe is not the best at defending the full back but we and AK know that.You cannot expect the guy to race up to the other end of the pitch and then race back when we inevitibly lose the ball. that is what one of the three Mid-Fielders is for….to cover.
I also agree Chambers is not a natural FB, we have already witnessed that. But he is a great partner for Ben. AV gave him MOtM yet he stood off his opponent as BoroExcile I think it was said….by ten yards and only challenged at the 18 yd line. poor defending.
As for Stuani…..ineffectual when he came on, added nothing at all. AK should have kept traore on (unless he had a niggle following a foul) and played Bamford on the left, he is two footed some could still come inside.
As for the odds now and last August, I would say that the majority thought we would struggle a little but be safe, now i would say the majority are fearing the worst.
We’re always one mistake away from a point Nigel, that’s the problem, and that can only be an excuse for so long.
Much as I agree with your tactical analysis, ultimately nothing will change without a fresh impetus of thought and the impetus a new boss can give us. Otherwise it’s just tweaking for the sake of it with the players still restricted by AK’s philosophy.
RR
Thanks for the report.
Looking at the form stats, I notice our next opponents, Everton, are up at the top again. That’s quite unlucky for us, AA we seem to have had both our fixtures against them come at times when they’re flying.
How many of us would take a point?
Dear me, this lot is real sackcloth and ashes – somebody hide the razor blades. I came on here to complain about our lack of enterprise and express worry about our likely relegation. However, having read the posts, it seems pointless now and, on balance, I feel less despondent than most – apart from Jarkko, bless ‘im.
What did everybody expect? Most newly-promoted teams struggle.
It’s clear that AK recognises the problem and tried to address it by buying forwards and creative MFs. However teams at the bottom all struggle to attract the calibre of players we need – and are very unlikely to get proven, experienced PL players – so the club largely failed to sign what AK wanted.
So, for me, the issue is whether AK’s approach maximises our playing capital – in short, is he getting the best out of the players we have?
Perhaps not – but then I remember Mogga’s WBA trying to play an expansive game when promoted and failing. They looked naive and it was generally considered that, if Mogga had been less stubborn and more pragmatic, the Baggies might well have survived. AK has started with pragmatism and attempted to buy the players to inject a more expansive game. If that strategy succeeds then we can build next season and add more creativity and potency.
However I fear for our PL place. We only need 3 teams to finish below us and earlier it seemed certain that Sunderland, Hull and Swansea would prop up the rest. There also was a chance that at least one out of C. Palace, Leicester, Burnley, W. Ham or Stoke would finish below us.
That picture has changed in recent weeks. New managers look to be having significant impacts at Hull and Swansea and, although erratic, Moyes is steadily getting better results out of the Mackenzie. Stoke, W. Ham and Burnley look to have pulled clear. Big Sam has yet to turn round Palace but nobody would vote against him in the long run and it is hard to believe that Leicester will not eventually wake up and their quality get the Foxes safe.
Where can we look for hope for teams to finish below Boro and save us? The sans-Ake Bournemouth are dropping like a stone but Boro are not much better and the Cherries’ 5 point margin means their descent will have to continue for some time if they are to end below us. Big Sam might finally come unstuck and lead Palace back to La La Land. There is every chance that at least one of the recoveries of Sunderland, Hull and Swansea will not continue.
But it’s all very tenuous. The outlook is not good and my guess is that we’ll be struggling until the last game. But would relegation be the end of the world?
Boro will benefit from a big cash injection from a season in the top flight and will benefit further from years of the newly-enhanced parachute payments. With astute management, it is much easier for relegated to teams to bounce back. If they do, they do so that much stronger, both in PL experience and in finances which, in turn, can lead to a stronger playing complement. Even before the much-increased parachute payments, several teams have done exactly that in recent years, with Burnley being the latest example.
Boro could be next.
Thanks for the post Nigel. An oasis of sanity amongst the increasing hysteria.
Or perhaps an oasis of insanity amongst the increasing realism. Vive la difference!
haha, indeed!
As time goes by I begin to think that Jelle Vossen was to AKBoro what Drogba was to Mourinho.
Oh what I would give to have Vossen in the number 10 right now. He had decent pace, bundles of energy and put himself about and harassed defenders. Several chances we created in that season were down to Jelle forcing mistakes. Jelle and Bamford up front would be perfect for our current modus operandi.
Our lack of pace and pressing since is ultimately our downfall. You can’t counterattack if you don’t press, and we don’t have the pace to press, pure and simple.
I must just express admiration for all of those who travelled to the game yesterday knowing what they were likely to witness (and not being surprised). I said some time back I would never pay to watch Boro under AK again, for those of you that continue to do so, full and complete credit.
As the newby I managed to put my first post in the wrong place (no disrespect Jarkko!). As a one off I’ve copied and pasted it here. Trust that’s OK?
********
Things are starting to get serious. If we continue to collect points at the current rate we’ll end the season with 33 and almost certain relegation. Something has got to change. We all know what that is and it’s to be a bit more positive. We don’t need to be gung-ho in every match. Given Karanka’s strong preference for a single striker how do we achieve this?
The answer might to shift to a midfield diamond four in a 4-1-4-1 line up. The base of the diamond plays in front of the holding midfielder – let’s say Clayton. The middle line are the more conventional wing men – let’s say Downing and Traore. In this sysytem the head of the diamond is crucial and plays behind, but in support, of the striker. The obvious candidate is Ramirez but if Karanka can’t build the bridges we have options. I can see both Stuani and Bamford being useful in this role.
For the system to work the wingers have to be effective and we’re rather limited by what we’ve got. Stuani should never start on the wing. It’s like starting with ten men and his main contribution is conceding needless fouls. I’d rather see Fischer or Fabio given a run. Downing should have been an obvious choice but his confidence has dipped with being in and out of the side.
Remember the premise is that we have to change if even only slightly. Thoughts?
John
Welcome to Diasboro and a great Post
With reference to wingers it really depends on the manager and if he can get Ramirez playing to his best and probably reverting to a 4 2 3 1 formation
Thanks Bob. Only just discovered where people had moved to.
I suspect the problem with Karanka’s 4-2-3-1 was that it became a busted flush over a year ago. Other managers twigged that, by pressing our flanks, the wingers would fall back and the central member of the 3 would follow them. That left us with, at best, 4-5-1 and the lone forward isolated.
A diamond at least encourages a more forward thinking approach.
Nice to be back.
Welcome back, John. It’s been a long time since you last posted.
Loved the poem, Bob.
Depressed throughout yesterday’s game and ever since, but lifted by the life and vitality of this blog. Clive’s analyses are closest to my own.
Amidst all of the gloom can I put in a shout for one shining light: Fabio, a little guy with a big heart. Yesterday he was our best full back and our best winger. Great attitude, tremendous energy, and our one player who did not look out of his depth in the EPL.
And that final tackle on Kyle Walker almost made the whole wretched experience of the match worthwhile.
Reminiscent of Morrison’s on Ronaldo.
Respect and admiration.
Thanks Len.
I’ll never be a frequent contributor but I’m so pleased to see that informed Boro debate still exists.
I like Fabio too.
And I’m expressing a desire for AK to be brave, drop Negredo and play Stuani just behind Bamford in the centre with Adama and Downing/Gaston as the supply lines, then Guedioura and a defensive midfielder (De Roon?) behind them.
With a defence of Fabio, Chambers/Ayala (with due respect to the endeavouring Bernardo), Gibbo and Friend.
I can dream, can’t I?
Len
Much as I respect your comments, apart from winning the league cup one of my abiding memory is Morrison giving Ronaldo a good shoeing.
Hope you wont be upset.
I agree that Fabio is a great little player although prone to the odd lapse.
The line up Simon suggests would work for me too but without Stuani who offers little imho. Be really brave and try Gestede as well or Stewie and Gaston.
Now is the time to make some bold moves, nothing to lose and everything to gain. The same old same old will not get us enough points. A win and a defeat brings 1 more point than 2 draws from 3 games and as we all know ” Points make prizes”!
The prize being survival and the pounds shillings and pence to strengthen the squad next season.
I can keep dreaming we can do a Leicester although not on current performances I’m afraid to say.
UTB – the Boro’s staying up…………….
Len
There is stardust sprinkled through the team. It’s why our overall performances are so galling.
I agree Chris. More than sufficient quality to compete at this level, just not set up in any way that will capitalise on that moving forward.
How we approach the Everton game will be telling for me if we will be able to salvage things in time this season.
At this moment in time I’m reminded of some great words RR wrote four years ago yesterday.
“I think we are looking at a classic managerial conundrum.
“As a manager you develop a style and methodology of management that works, and has brought success. But now, times have changed, and the things that you used to do so routinely and so successfully just don’t seem to work any more.
“So you try harder and work harder, you intensify, but still, the rewards and results are simply not there.
“It’s not a unique scenario or an unusual one in the wonderful world of management. Indeed, it’s just one of those challenges that managers face in their careers from time to time.
“The cure is to firstly realise where you are, identify what once worked, and why it no longer delivers. It could be that a major competitor was going through a difficult phase, and you just happened to hit a window of opportunity by being in the right place at the right time, and your efforts were perhaps fortuitous rather than a measure of your true ability.
“It could be that you were once way ahead of the game, but the competitors have simply got wise and caught up, and your modus operandi is outdated, stale or a mixture of several things culminating in an impasse or hiatus in being able to get things performing again.
“So what to do then? Well you don’t throw everything out and start again with a blank sheet because clearly not everything has gone to seed, but you do need to analyse the cause of your shortcomings. Ignoring or denying them is folly and can only end in one scenario.
“A style of play with a particular group of players may have worked in a different league or a different division in a different (season) with a different set of tools and equipment (once), but that’s not to say that its shelf life is infinite.
“It is becoming increasingly obvious that whatever (was) the driving force (for the manager) is no longer working, or spluttering at least.
“It’s not working collectively, or individually, and it’s clearly not galvanising the playing staff or the supporters. The fans are not buying into it, and it’s becoming clear that several of the playing staff are either just plain lost and confused by it or… are not buying into it either.
“(The manager) now faces the challenge of addressing, accepting, understanding and changing those absolutes which have historically served him well at times (but have also been equally called into question) but are now looking decidedly uncomfortable, forced and misfiring with increasing regularity.
“Square pegging, favouritism, out-of-favouritism, passing to death, no pace, split strikers, slow tempo, sitting back… not giving youth a chance… tactical paralysis and confusion, all of these and more have been levelled at the poor bloke, and the likelihood is that somewhere amongst the views, observations and opinions there is a grain of truth.
“Opposing managers of course are also very much aware of the above Achilles heel and how Boro will play. Our positional set up will no doubt be a surprise at kick off and even a shock at times to them but then the delivery is pretty much predictable…
“Patterns and programs that are familiar and comfortable are difficult to break, but in order to grow as managers we have to experiment and embrace change and shake free those limiting beliefs.”
He was talking about Mogga. I think we can apply those words to AK now.
Are we coming to accept that he is just another one of those numerous short-term successful managers whose stock rose so highly to begin with before slowly burning out?
Patience, Simon!
In Aitor we trust.*
*Isn’t that the mantra?
If I lob the ball into the penalty area, ignoring the manager’s comments from the sideline as I know he wants me to pass it square or backwards again, there is a chance that someone might pop up in the penalty area and head it into the net for a round 100.
Dinky toy cars are much better than Trabants anyway.
🔴 Here’s your long awaited Dinky car Dormo…
– – – – – -🚗- – – – – 100
Oh, well! I gave you a chance. There was no-one else within 30 yards of the penalty spot anyway so I decided, having lobbed the ball into the penalty area, I might as well sprint forward to meet my own cross. 1-0.
Easy isn’t it, to attack, attack, attack?
Watch out Forever, you will end up on the naughty step for that
Read Paul Ince in the gazette sums it up nicely , similar thoughts to most on here.
Spartak, I think you knew this already, but it is very rare that the change of a manager has helped a team to change the fate if they are in the bottom three around Christmas.
If someone needs any reference, please read more from ‘The Numbers Game. Everything You Know About Football Is Wrong’ by Anderson & Sally, 2013.
I think Leicester survived a few years ago by sticking to our ex-captain, not by sacking him. A chance of manager is a long term solution, not short term.
I think Steve G. knows that better than anyone. That is why he is called the best Chairman in the league.
Up the Boro!
And SG is the be all & end all of excellent footballing anakysis & decision making, is that it Jarkko – hero worship?
The same hero that gave us Straken. The same that stuck through relegation with Southgate only to sack him when we were near the top of the league. Now only to back Aitor after 4 wins in 23 league games.
Whether we paint the picture rosy red or a depressing dark grey, we are dependent on his final say whether we like it or not, Jarkko.
Oh, & for every fact there is a counter arguement. For every written opinion another. Each situation is unique & calls for unique solutions. Still, thanks for the reference, I may search it out.
Cheers, Spartak. The book is about facts and numbers, not opinions.
All people makes mistakes, the successful ones learn from them.
I think we should have kept Gareth Southgate longer – but that is easy to say afterwards with the Strachan experience.
Perhaps Gareth will return to Boro one day when his best-by date is over as the England manager!
I am just enjoying the season again. I fully trust Steve Gibson and hence AK, too.
Up the Boro!
I suspect That dep down Mr Gibson does know that it is wrong and that his patience is being severely tested with AK.
He has not got to where he is now without making tough decisions and at the moment it is not all great super smashing. Along the way, errors of judgement will also have been made.
We cannot read his mind, and we can only hope that he has various plans up his sleeve to do what he feels is right for the club. Or best for Mr Gibson…………he will be thinking of his finances that is for sure.
I am reminded of a client of mine who was not short of a bob or two and invested into a business that needed turning round. Whilst significant sums were invested to no avail, in the end, he decided enough was enough and accepted a rather large loss rather than pour even more cash into something that was not working. That after considering all possible options.
Mr Gibson will possibly be thinking which option gets him out with the least amount of pain and given the investment in the back room team that AK brought, maybe leaving as is is best for the rest of the season to ensure a managed exit.
Interesting what RR said all those years ago and with exceptions, most football managers have a shelf life of varying lengths.
AK is new to it and perhaps has spent too long with his mentor to change.
I happened to glance at the tweets to look for Boro links and astonished to see Vic tweeting about NFL.
Then it dawned, from the tweets it appears that Trump supports the Pats. Much glee and scorn from our ex blogmeister as Atlanta pull away. I had a quick glance at the 4 minutes of highlights on BBC and with Falcons well ahead some one had sent in a message that said remember the polls for Brexit and the Trump victory.
Lo and behold the Patriots made the biggest come back in superbowl history. No tweets from AV. Mmmmmm, wonder why?
Two lessons
1. Beware of gloating, Twitter is a cruel medium.
2. It is not over until it is over, that can apply to us.
So lets start looking for some positives. If AK and the players take the prevailing mood on here in to the rest of the season we are doomed.
I’m struggling but looking. Ok, we are not in the drop zone yet, a point clear with better goal difference.
Need some points soon, very soon.
I hope it is over for Mr. Trump. Couldn’t resist it, Ian!
I hope I am right in saying we will stay in the PL. Let’s keep positive.
Up the Boro!
Nigel, fully agree with you.
Also about Traore/Chambers combo – it did not work. I would stick to Barragan at right-back until Friend back and use Fabio on the right then.
Traore was not excellent at Spurs but always worth a try. He was very good during the previous two matches, though.
I am more worried about the recent form of Downing and Forsaw. But only short term. They are good players
Up the Boro!
Simon,
A great quote and a timely reminder of just how long RR has been dispensing good sense on the blog.
I admire the fact that you are organised enough to be able to retrieve this kind of material? I always have trouble in trying to locate memorable past contributions. Any tips for the rest of us?
Ian,
Genuinely puzzled as to why you feel that I might be upset by the fact that you agree with me. Anyway I like disagreement, and sometimes try to provoke it.
Elsewhere in sport, oops!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/38876048
Len
Tongue in cheek, but as an aside, at my age, I shouldn’t have enjoyed Morrison giving the collapsible Ronaldo a shoeing. I must admit he didn’t dive on that occasion.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/you-want-even-more-middlesbrough-12531915
I think we can expect less material with free access. So be it.
Boycott the Gazette’s proposed Boro Premium Service.
A privatisation of the kind of service that a half decent paper should be offering anyway.
It will massively backfire because the public which pays for the paper will twig that it is getting a third-rate product as a result.
The argument against running a public and private service side-by- side is that the public service, the one serving the majority, inevitably comes to be seen as a third-rate one that those with money, power and influence can side-step.
It’s a shameful step.
And we are already getting a free premium service here on this blog. That’s the way to do it.
Len, couldn’t agree more. What the Gazette publishes is becoming more and more spin anyway.
Well had a laptop free Sunday so just put a few observations from the Spurs game.
It was inevitable that Boro would be setup by Karanka to defend with two banks of four and five respectively – it was more of a Man City type than an Arsenal away performance and as soon as the penalty went in I thought the game was up – even though de Roon nearly did the same again but fluffed his lines.
I agree with Plato’s point that this far into the season our tactics are no longer going to surprise the opposition and they’ll adjust their game plan knowing we’ll offer little going forward – we do at least need to keep them on their toes early in the game like at Arsenal and not wait until we’re behind in the last quarter.
We need Gaston back on the left to give us more chance of playing a counter-attacking game – defending for long spells is OK against the big teams if you do indeed counter-attack – not sure if you can play simply defend-and-clear, followed by defend-and-clear and expect to hold out – Spurs missed a couple of chances you’d have normally seen them convert – especially Kane’s free header.
Downing on the left is no longer an option for him as he’s lost his pace – quite often he’d receive the ball in his own half and have to check his run as the opposition quickly caught him up – he wasn’t even far enough up the pitch to pass to a forward so he often just passed it back to a defender and any counter-attack was gone. In contrast to Gaston who we saw has the pace and stamina to run the length of the pitch and score. So Stewie needs to play more centrally and leave the wings to faster younger players.
It was also noticeable that when Guedioura came on he added some forward intent and skipped the neat sideways/backwards midfield possession that has inflicted the team since the three defensive midfielders became a requirement. It didn’t always come off but hopefully he won’t be admonished for his efforts.
Clearly Boro are handicapped with Friend out as it stops Fabio from also being right-back where he can more easily deliver a ball – add to that Gaston on the left and Adama on the right and it would feel more potent – especially if Guedioura or Downing get one of the central midfield berths.
Listening to the TV commentary on Saturday, Glenn Hoddle made the point that being organised defensively was the easy part for a coach – the hard part was working out how to offer a threat to the opposition. Which probably sums up where we are at – Karanka has achieved the easy part (though I’m sure it’s only easy in relative terms) now the question being asked is can he make Boro an attacking force?
The worry is that it’s not clear whether he’s actually got round to the second bit and has instead taken the first bit to the Nth degree. His tactics may need individual brilliance to be bolted on to superb organisation – and again I’m not sure we have that in the quantity that’s going to allow Boro to score enough goals.
I hope Karanka can be pragmatic enough to loosen the stranglehold tactics against opposition that don’t possess a top level XI so that we don’t give them too many ‘free hits’ as scoring two goals to win a game under the current system is looking a stretch.
Whether Karanka can make us an attacking force is debatable in the extreme based on his track record to date but someone needs to do it and now.
Watching the MOTD review of the Man City v Swansea, the contrast with Boro struck me. The point was made about the impact that Paul Clement is having at the Liberty Stadium. The pundits pointed out the team’s new resilience with sound defensive organisation and the banks of players robustly protecting their goal – much like us.
However, in particular, they highlighted Swansea’s ability at quickly turning massed defence into penetrating attack. They have midfielders who can do the protective job required but whose natural assets are creative and offensive. That is the big difference with Boro.
Most of our midfielders lack the creative qualities that can impact at PL level and, on top of that, they are drilled into a safety-first mode. When our ‘dogs of war’ central players succeed in gaining possession, they can’t do much with the ball. That deficiency is exacerbated by the lack of attacking bodies in forward positions at any one time. A lot of the time there is only Negredo available to hit with a pass.
Consequently we have to try to play the ball out of defence in order to buy time for more bodies to get forward. Inevitably these passes often go astray, leading to another wave of attack for us to defend. Furthermore Boro’s lack of offensive threat means that opposition teams can safely push forward in numbers and lay siege to our goal in the way we regularly endure.
Our only outlets appear to be a long ball to Negredo (who is left with minimal support) or, secondly, exploiting the explosive pace of Traore. It doesn’t seem enough but only time will tell if it is.
Pedro – I’ve read your post and mine again, can’t quite see where your opinion that we were watching different games comes from. The idea that Traore is expected to run up and down the wing endlessly depending on whether we are attacking or defending is an interesting one. Traore was rubbish on Saturday, he created nothing and his defending was abysmal, on more than one occasion when Boro were under attack on our right I saw him just outside the penalty box stood watching, like a school boy who thinks its someone else job to defend.
You’re right Stuani was completely ineffectual, as was Downing, Negredo, Traore and Bamford.
It may be worth noting that Spurs are the best defensive team in the league, so its not entirely surprising that our attackers failed to create anything of note.
The Boro are struggling at the moment, no question, but criticising Karanka for not getting a positive result at Spurs is just ludicrous.
Looking ahead, we need Friend fit as quick as possible so Fabio can play right back, Traore needs to be reserved for home games and away matches against weaker sides. I’d play Bamford on the right instead, given the lack of other options.
As for the midfield three, god knows, for me that’s the real weak spot now. The new lad from Watford showed some energy and drive in the few minutes he was on the pitch but that doesn’t tell us much.
Its time for Ramirez and Downing to step up to the plate for me.
Nigel, I can see where you are coming from, but thought you were hard on Traore saying he was rubbish. Maybe it was not the right game for him……nor a few others.
As Werder and ex Nikeboro said, the main problem we have is the limited Mid-Field. Great at defending, then?? However we have all said we need another creative MF and wether the ones AK had lined up would have been an improvement I think only Snodgrass would of been.
I stilL think Traore has a place in the team to create something, but a reformed, consistent Gaston could possible make the difference between going down or staying up. That and Friend back and Chambers at CH…..not RB
I couldn’t agree more, Len. The future of newsprint seems bleak, so I can see how they’d want to go in this direction and, maybe, it will be attractive to a younger generation than us. As for me, I’m out.
I watched the clip for the new Gazette service, it was interesting that they were the people in the know, that would keep fans up to date with all the latest news and discussion.
I have Boro+ for club views, I don’t need a second subscription service.
As I have posted previously the good ship Diasboro has deserted the sinking rats.
After Diasboro, Newsnow will become my first port of call, I think OFB uses it as well.
I certainly do use News Now
Looking forward to Saturday and hope Gaston is back and on form
Boro now go into eight games which will decide whether we can stay up. If we can’t put points on the board now, there is no reason to think we will get them against the elite clubs at the end of the season. This is our run-in, these are the cup finals.
Obviously we are going to need to score more goals.
Bringing Ramirez back wide left would provide more creativity and more dynamic attacking, if he is mentally committed. I assume this change is at the top of AK’s thinking for Everton.
But looking at the Hull game when Ramirez was there, for example, in spite of dominating possession we still struggled to score. So we also need to take out one of the containment midfielders and bring in more creativity in central midfield.
I hope Guedioura is not being seen as a replacement for Adama on the right, even though he was bought after the moves for wide men unravelled. I am assuming Adama will continue to start our matches from here on in, even if AK needs a megaphone to tell him where to be and what to do. Or maybe the lad could have an implant and AK could direct him with one of those radio-control joysticks.
AK may be thinking of using Guedioura to replace Adam Forshaw, where he may be able to add more creativity and some strong shooting from a central position. He looks powerful and may also offer something in the air, but we won’t know his skillset until we see more of him. He may be able to do the defensive duties better than slotting Ramirez or Stewy in there as creative number 10’s, so this change may appeal to AK, depending on what he is seeing in training.
I would retain De Roon and leave out Forshaw because De Roon offers a goal threat, and has the energy and mindset to be able to get into their box and back. I hope George and Fabio are fit and can take the full back positions, with Chambers and Ben at centre back and Claytonator as the sweeper in front of them.
AK must know that we cannot continue with the approach to games we have used so far, and it is down to him to provide the answers. Everton is a home game and in spite of their goal-fest at the weekend, they didn’t look great in defence – we need to go for three points.
The truth is that in some ways, I’ve hit an Aitor style impasse with my own work.
I have the tools to build an exciting new photography website, for example, but am repeatedly holding back for fear of the end result not being quite what I want it to be – hence endless tinkering until it becomes a shadow of what it was, I throw my hands up in the air and say, “Why bother?” and go back to my writing.
It’s almost like hanging around often with the girl you’ve admired for a long time, but never asking her out for fear of a “No” or for the reality not being as good as you imagine.
As long as the hope is alive, you’ll always have something to aim for and something to dream about, and (seemingly) the time to accomplish it – but nothing lasts forever or as long as you want it to, and that time will run out.
My fear is that Aitor will not cotton on to that until he is actually in the drop zone or at the bottom of the league. It took Charlton and the throwing away of a seemingly unsurmountable lead for him to finally “catch on” – like his mentor, he needs a really big challenge to deliver. (For Mourinho, that’s restoring the United identity which has pretty much drifted away post-Sir Alex.)
Now, Len – you asked me about how I retrieved “classic” material. Sometimes, after I’ve been to the gym or if I’m in between written and photography assignments, I’ll just sit there browsing UntypicalBoro, DiasBoro or Guardian comments sections re. football pieces. In there I’ve regularly found invaluable opinions which go beyond even the articles themselves in stimulating ideas. And quite a few of them will just “stick” with me.
For example, I remembered Richard Antill’s words “we were utterly spoiled between 1994 and 2008”.
Google that and you have a link to a great comment about expectations.
For RR, it was “Football has a legacy of short-term successful managers”.
Which led to the piece I posted above.
He added, “(these were) managers whose stock rose phenomenally and then burnt out slowly: the Taylors, the Coppells, the Keanes, the Keegans, the Erikssons, the Wilkinsons, even Dalglish or our own Ste Mac or Robbo.
“These were managers who had a certain something that worked for a while, and lived off its reputation, but whatever it was, it didn’t have longevity and it never repeated. They didn’t evolve enough and keep on adapting, and instead stayed within themselves, repeating the same tactics, formations and ultimately mistakes.
“Contrast that with Fergie for example, love him or loathe him… (he kept) evolving with the decades despite the Liverpools, Arsenals, Chelseas and City all having their peaks and attempts at toppling him. His tactics, selections, formats… altered sometimes subtly, sometimes not so subtly, but he adapted, shaped, formed and continued to grow and for those of you too young to remember, Man U at the time of his appointment, were in disarray.
“As the saying goes the only insane thing is to keep on doing the same old things in the same old way but expecting different results, but when you no longer do what you have always done you can no longer get what you have always got.”
I remember in the interregnum immediately after Mogga’s exit there were some suggestions on the lines of Tony Pulis and similarly ‘pragmatic’ managers to come to Boro. Vic reported that that was viewed with horror by the club. With the legacy of Mannion, we Smoggies had been brought up on more cultured stuff so, even if it were effective, there was no place for that brand of ‘industrial’ football at Boro apparently.
What price now? What kind of purist, entertaining, free-flowing football are we producing and where are Stoke and WBA?
The hierarchy are obviously not going to rock the boat when we are battling for survival but I do wonder how frustrated and exasperated they feel. If relegated will SG be glad to see the back of AK?
I didn’t realise that in series a Italy, you can name up to twelve subs in games,
That tells me you can go west of FIFA,
Then could we throw transfer Windows out?
I would go for that.
Runners & Riders
Steppin outside our own wee bubble for a bit, it struck ne how different teams are coping with the threat of the big R;
The Foxes
Reports suggest all is not well – hardly surprising! The word is there’s colly wobbles over the manager’s persistance with ‘his’ team tactics & style of play. Some are for other options. Some are for a full blooded turf Raneiri out on his backside effect.
Palace as in Crystal
Interesting to see the Eagles fall from their perch in a full swan dive meltdown against oppostion that previously couldn’t hit a barn door with a howitzer from 10 meters. Even more interestin is that Fat Sam thought the right response was to get the whole squad, new signings included, in for an early morn training session (more on Aitor’s approach in a bit).
Swansea (new manager I believe)
The Swans will be diappointed not to come away from the Emirates with a point. How high must they feel as they glide on the upper currents of self confidence. However, how will they perform if Siggy at the front loses his mojo.
Hull City
Place must be buzzin now. Beat the Pool 2-0. Oh, how the god’s taunt us with their timing. Was that the same Pool who ran amoke at the Riverside & like so many teams simply focused on Adama to snuff out our hopes of a goal – woe, woe & thrice woe for that one.
Blunderland
Well the Mackems (are there any in the team?) Blundered into the Eagles nest at just the right moment. They even stuck the ball in the net more times in that game than the Boro has in our last 7 or 8? Of course, we’ve conceded oh so few but we collect 1 point outta 2 or 3 games where they have picked up 3 in 1. You dont need a degree in mafes to figure out which team benefits the most on the table stakes.
Boro
Last, but certainly not least, the Boro lads. I actually have to agree with Aitor’s decision here on taking the lads away from it all to his sunny homeland. I really do believe a stretch of R&R (not u Redcar Red) is going to be hughly beneficial both physically & mentally – make it loads of fun without the alcohol bit & freshen the troops up away from the grind. I think given the way Aitor prefers to play, then this idea should be implemented 4 times a season. If it were I, then each international break I’d take those who remained off to the Carribean with their familes (singles bring partners not to be left out). Once suitably bronzed and rested then output on the pitch would be expected to be positive. Just imagine word gets round Boro do free trips to the Carribean when pos performances are provided (or not). Might work!
Outside of our bubble just been chatting to a Derby fan, not my colleague, but someone I know.
He watched the match and was surprised how well we managed to keep the score down, Spurs are some team and Deli Ali a bargain at £5m.
The there midfielders are a problem, hard working but don’t create much. If we play a three we need asomeone who can make a pass. Thought Geudioura made a difference when he came on. He had a great game against the Rams laying on a goal with a good pass.
Traore is going to be some player. Didn’t think Negredo did enough holding the ball up, a bit static.
Could see why AK had a hissy fit because the club hadn’t brought in attacking players, clearly needed.
Not my words folks. Interesting.
I find it interesting that, although posters have a wide spectrum of views, there is lots of common ground.
There’s lots of views on players and systems but what stands out is that Stuani is not a winger and shouldn’t play there. Again, most recognise that Chambers is a CB not a RB and shouldn’t play there except out of necessity.
We tend to agree we can’t continue doing more of the same. we need to be a bit (or a lot) more positive. This is not reaction to crisis but a position evolving over the months.
My point is that if we can see this why can’t Karanka? The answer may be as simple as he’s a coach and we’re keyboard warriors but I think not.
John
I do think AK sees it but with Gaston unfit and no incoming attacker in the window maybe he does what he thinks is best. We may not agree with him but that is his prerogative.
With who was available I couldn’t complain about the team that started the match. George on the left and Fabio right would have helped. Whether we would have got anywhere near the likes of Deli Ali is another matter.
The fact we made substitutions around the 60 minute mark was a surprise.The introduction of Guedioura after a few days in the squad may be a pointer to his thinking as was his urging of Stewie to get forward in the first half.
To be fair Chambers was left exposed at right back by Traore and managed to cope, just! Maybe Stewie was right to be concerned.
We will know more this week if Gaston is fit.
The other theory is that AK’s missing Leo.
Since surgery? Boro’s league record is W0 D3 L4.
The role of any manager is surely to get the best out of your resources to achieve the objective that you have been given.
We can only presume that the objective is survival although the question is whether AK is getting the best from the team. There seems to be a view (which I agree with) that he isn’t although he can’t or won’t see that.
Maybe he is missing Leo who gives him another view that others don’t.
All I know is that in my career if I am not achieving targets, then I have been “encouraged” to make changes. Dependant on the managerial style, then that encouragement varied but ultimately I knew what I had to do and in some cases told exactly how what and when to do things.
Should SG adopt this approach – discuss……..
This is the most attacking set-up I can muster given our personnel;
3-4-3
Three attackers / strikers; Traore, Negrado, Bamford
Four midfielders; Downing (L w/back), Clayton (C defensive), Gaston (C advanced), Fabio (R w/back)
Three at the back; Friend (L), Gibson (C), Chambers (R)
Hopefully plenty of attacking intent in there, with some pace, but with defensive nous also. However, Gaston is the key to link defence to attack and he’s currently unavailable and doesn’t have a replacement, so . . . back to the drawing board.
Hopefully Gaston will play at some point on Saturday and I would like the Boro fans will cheer him rather than boo him because after all we are still paying his wages to keep us in the Premiership.
One thing we have been sadly lacking this season is the ability to fire in free kicks and corners which have been abysmal.
Forshaw needs to be rested and so does Downing. I am afraid that both Downing and Leadbitter are not mobile enough or fast enough for top class football any more although they could be plying their craft in the championship next season.
Chambers is not a right back -period. Espinosa is not as good as Ayala. We need to support Negredo a lone striker up front and perhaps Bamford could start and then when tiring replace him with Traore. Use his fresh fast legs to terrorise the opposing defence
This weeks break should help with team bonding and hopefully the practise of some set plays resulting in goals.
All in all we just have to keep shouting them on even if we are not allowed to chant attack attack attack!
Ian –
There’s probably no ‘maybe’ about it – Karanka will ‘always’ do what he thinks is best – to do anything else would be tantamount to Munchausen management by proxy.
The issue is not so much that people will disagree with his view, it’s whether he himself can identify what is working and what is not and adjust accordingly. If he just continues in the same vein regardless of outcome then we have a problem – it means there is no learning curve just the risk of the Boro patient flat-lining.
Also if he falsely identifies the problem (which I think is the more likely scenario) it then also doesn’t bodes well for out future survival – for example, if failure to shut out the opposition results in him believing Boro should be even more defensive then it may actually increase the chance that the opposition will have more attempts on goal as well as decreasing our attempts.
Which ultimately means we would have to increase our conversion rate and the opposition conversion rate can reduce unless we prevent them making goal attempts to achieve the same outcome.
So is it a false economy? It’s almost like the argument about austerity – can you grow the economy by giving everyone less to spend? Or to put it in footballing terms: Can you increase shots on goal by reducing the amount of service to the forwards?
Well despite the concerted efforts of BT SPORT commentary team Victot Valdez will not be facing retrospective disciplinary action for his spat with Deli Ali. It was included in Clattemburgsn match report and he dealt with it.
On another goalkeeping issue Boro are reporting to be signing a new goalkeeping coach Marcus Abad from Elche
Valdes was very silly and could have shafted his team mates by getting sent off but Alli was in Valdes’ face and having a sly little shirt tug at him to wind him up and then walked back into his outstretched pointing finger on purpose. Turning to the Ref appealing gave away his gamesmanship. Its probably not permitted in the rules but personally I’d have sent them both off to make an example.
I’m not a fan of Clattenburg but having watched it over a few times I think he got it spot on but the BT commentary on it was somewhat myopic to put it politely.
On the rumoured “new” goalkeeping coach, Marcos Abad from Elche it seems to me a bit strange that someone would hand their notice in and resign from a post to take up a temporary 4 month contract?
As Simon has pointed out our form has been less than impressive since Leo’s disappearance but I would have thought that SA would have had more influence than Leo (wry smile with a nudge and a wink!).
Is Leo coming back? Make up your own conspiracy theories!
Apparently Abad only has 6 months to run on his existing contract so presumably Boro will pay that up
He has a reputation for innovation with his training techniques and joins two of his former compatriots coaches at Boro
Werder
Are Munchausen in the Bundesliga?
The maybe was included as a figure of speech, besides, if I said he did what he thought best there may have been a pre-emptive strike from the White Carpathians.
I agree if AK cant see the problem or falsely identifies it we are in a mess. I think he does know the issues but he cant very well come out say too much about it.
The problem is how he deploys the tools at his disposal and importantly does he think the tools are capable of doing the job. Clearly he was looking to improve the crucial areas of the pitch with no success, what is more one of the key elements wanted away.
If, as he sees it, he has to keep bodging the job then a bodge it will be.
I listened to a bit of Talksport when I was out and about, there were Palace and Leicester fans adamant they would be relegated.
I think everyone including Karanka knows Stuani isn’t good enough to play wide right, I’d go further and say he isn’t a premiership footballer, but he’s not the only one in that category currently in the first XI.
Karanka tried to buy a wide right player in January but none on the list were available, we can hardly blame him for that.
OFB is right also that the midfield lacks pace, my son believes Stewie has lost it, but my recollection is that he was never quick, co I think that might be form rather than lost pace.
Maybe things will get better when we can field our strongest team, Friend and Ramirez back with Chambers at centre back will be an improvement.
Agree with every word of that Nigel especially the Stewie bit. He was never an exciting swashbuckling speed merchant of a winger, more a measured approach type player. Maybe also worth adding that previously when Zenden moved inside (2004?) things worked better for us. That I believe is just one reason why Stewie didn’t stand out at WHL, who could he have linked up with or passed it to other than backwards in fear of losing possession (cardinal sin under AK). Our Midfielders do not create options and as for off the ball movement, well it just doesn’t exist.
Stewie wide left, Traore right and Gaston central instead of Forshaw for me!
The Valdes incident was ‘handbags’ and nothing more. A spurs fan I was sat with said it was ‘clear’ Valdes had thrown a punch. To which I replied that might be a punch in North London but not on Teesside.
Although, the punches that Valdes did throw in an attempt to clear the ball weren’t the best I’ve seen.
More of a “Spanish Slap” than a “Teesside Thump”. Had it been the latter Alli would have been out for the rest of the season with a dislocated brain cell.
Interesting comment from my colleague on the penalty.
On here I think we believe it was a spot kick, the Rams view is that if it was at the Riverside against a lower league team it might have been a 50/50 decision.
Cant say I agree but I give comments from other fans as they utter them.
Ian –
Well to paraphrase he now has ‘the best tools in the world’ – though if you’re suggesting he knows what the problem is but doesn’t have the right players to fix it under the system he has chosen to play then he has two choices: stick to the system knowing he hasn’t got the players to make it work or change the system to suit the players at his disposal – I suspect we won’t see the second option.
I would make the point that he tried to solve a problem he previously identified by increasing the number of defensive midfielders from two to three – This started away at Man City, which has now seen us score only 10 goals in our last 14 games – since 5 from of those came in just two games (Swansea and Leicester), it means the other 12 games only yielded 5 goals – for me that is the problem to fix.
Since it also shows we’ve conceded 16 goals in those 14 games since switching to a trio of defensive midfielders – previously we conceded 11 goals in the 10 games with only two defensive midfielders (whilst scoring 9). It therefore appears to me that one ‘problem’ defensively wasn’t fixed and the problem of scoring was made worse.
The main reason Downing has been so disappointing is his lack of pace. I agree he has never been overly quick but unfortunately when you are left isolated on the pitch with limited support, pace is the main asset you need. For Downing to once again be the top player he can be he needs bodies up around him. Similarly, Negredo would be a different player if supported better.
It is the set up that limits our attacking options. That’s why numerous attempts to tweak the front end have failed and will continue to do so. Ultimately if you are outnumbered and have little space you pass backwards or sidewards to recycle possession. I don’t think we are meant to play tiki taka football but our tactics mean that is the only way we can play.
I would never be overly harsh on our offensive players they have a thankless task in our team.
My preferred team would be Downing, Ramirez and Traore behind Negredo/Bamford. If that wasn’t working, particularly at home, I would even drop another holding midfielder and play two up top with Ramirez still in the hole. I would ask Downing on the left and Traore on the right to tuck in more to give us more stability.
If it’s about wins we have to try and get them. Attack is the best form of defence and I would rather see us going down making a fist of staying up rather than sinking miserably towards the trap door. (Which unfortunately is what is happening at the moment)
I would have thought three defensive midfielders when playing against one of the top six is fine, but any other teams a defensive pair should be made to work surely?
One way or the other in order to survive we need to win a few and to do that we need to score a few.
Werder
I agree with that, the problem is what AK thinks is the best way to fix it. Possibly an even bigger problem is what the other teams do on the pitch.
The 443 worked for us until Gaston was injured and Traore then became the sole outlet. We have been rumbled m’lud!
Worked might be stretching it Ian, 5 of the 10 games in which Gaston played in 433 Boro failed to score and in three of the others we only managed a single goal – plus Gaston was so happy with his role in this formation he asked to leave.
I’m inclined to agree with RR and paul, Downing left, Ramirez central and Traore right has to be the way forward. Although I wouldn’t play Traore away from home against a top ten team.
I might be inclined to give Negredo a break and play Bamford as the striker for a few games.
For sure though, the defensive three has to go against all but the best teams. A good place to start is against Everton who will be expecting the usual defensive midfield three from Boro, a change from AK might just give us an edge.
I trust Ramirez has been offered a move in the summer in exchange for four months of commitment on the pitch from him.
Nigel
You would expect something along those lines to have been agreed.
It’s no good to him or us if he spends the rest of the season sulking.
I think we all know now that a few wins are essential in the next run of fixtures, otherwise it’s curtains.
UTB
Steely
The rest of the squad will sort him out, the likes of Grant and Gibbo wont let him slack, good professionals such as Negredo, Valdes, Barragan, Bernardo and Stuani will be in his ear in case he doesn’t understand the message in a North East accent.
A few days in Spain wont harm because the rain in Spain falls mainly in England. I know it doesn’t scan, best I can do.
More nonsense!
🙂
Spartak
Not nonsense, it is the squad who sorts their colleagues out. The likes of Gary Neville reduced Ronaldos theatrics at ManU.
JFH and Gate rallied the squad after seasonticketgate
I believe you were in the army so will know better than me how such a group interact with someone who doesn’t contribute as much as the rest.
If they cant then we are in a bigger mess than most of us think we already are.
The table never lies.
Wrote u a really elloquent reply Ian only for me phone to give up the ghost & lose it all.
In short, as you state in your last comment. Peer pressure assumes a healthy group dynamic. To assume this without evidence to the fact results in nothing more than speculation.
Have a wonderful day!!!
I think that because Downing is a local lad….people are are still supporting him but in reality he is well past it. That is the honest truth.
AK is askin every player outside the defensive inner circle to play beyond their individual skill set & I include Negredo in that conclusion.
Is it any surprise we dont see Stewie playing to his strengths? Is it any surprise that rather than stay at the Boro Uncle Albert left. Tomlin got a ‘bad stomach’, Adam Reach reached the end of the road & even teflon Stuani is recognised to be well unfit for purpose in the role AK gives him. And so many others.
People, this manager of ours, I will repeat, is one dimensional, a slow learner, a defensive tacticion par excellance , but I appeal to you, don’t write off good quality players coz the manager plays to a system and is incapable of moulding a well balanced team, ensuring he gets the best from the strengths the players have.
Yet against Accrington (and yes I know it’s only Accrington!) when we were expected to win and we were able to get more bodies forward downing was head and shoulders above every other player on the pitch. Why because he needs support. He is not the sort of player and never has been to slalom through three men and score a worldie. Downing is only 32. In footballing terms he should be at his peak.
Downings game as a winger was about whipping telling balls into the box. We only have one striker in the box and don’t get far enough forward as a team to get downing in those positions where he’s isolated against one full back.
His game at West Ham was as an attacking midfielder carrying the ball in the hole between the oppositions midfield and defence. Meanwhile he had two strikers making runs occupying the two centre backs. He’ll almost certainly have had options out wide as well. We play with one fairly immobile striker and no wingers.
That’s why I maintain you can’t judge any of our attacking players based on the current system. It’s like saying one player vs three opposition players go on show us what you can do? The answer not a lot.
Id already started writing my post before I read yours spartak! I should have just written ditto!!
On the point you made that was why I was so frustrated when we let Jordan Rhodes go. It was impossible in our system to actually judge him as a striker.
More grist to the mill, Paul!
🙂
Woof woof !
Most of the posts after the Spurs game agreed with the majority of points I made three weeks ago.
I take on board & respect all comments on this blog
but IMHO it’s long overdue & time to get rid of AK.
Reason being if only to get a knee jerk reaction which might spark something, anything, that will get points the board & save us from the drop.
To all the eternal optimists on this blog I suggest that if you were awaiting a firing squad you would be debating :
1) Who hasn’t got the bullet & why ?
2) What are the odds they will miss hitting me ?
3) What are the chances if got shot, of me surviving ?
I say, sod all this nonsense ! We can be optimistic forever, but we’re in the promised land of the Premiership & SG should be doing all & more to keep us there. The writing has been on the wall for months now, so for Dog’s sake wake up, smell the coffee, or whatever phrase floats your boat.
After 40 years I’m not in the Boro ‘bubble’, so maybe I see things different to those who are.
I’m hurting, hurting like hell. The fixes needed to the team & philosophy are IMHO, very simple to all here who contribute.
These things have been apparent to all on this blog, except to the person that matters, AK.
Let’s hear it from all you eternal optimists, because IMHO if we go down, we will take years to return.
I might be barking mad, but hey, only woofing, like.
🙂
Oops, missed out the word ‘on’ in sentence containing ‘points on the board’.
Hope I’m not in the doghouse for that….
Not being an optimist but a pragmatist one thing that the boro have is parachute payments and also an infrastructure that has been put in place over the last few years to ensure success no matter who the manager is next season we would be able to recruit someone who would be capable of taking us back to the premiership at the first attempt
OFB, ever the optimist! I’m not sure the infrastructure is delivering much success this season and there is no certainty that if we go down we will bounce straight back even taking into account the parachute payments. Quite a few teams have found the Championship a transient step on the journey to the lower leagues.
I wonder why we have had nothing from SG. He must be very concerned about the team’s current position and aware that many fans now fear the worst. As I recall the Chairman has communicated with the fans in the past at critical points so why not now?
Yes OFB I’m totally agreed. But it’s not guaranteed if relegated we’d return first time, or if ever.
After long enough we now have the PL Holy Grail in our hands & this useless jerk AK is going to let it slip through our fingers. For Dog’s sake, can’t someone shake him out of this one way ticket to the Championship ?
That’s the way things are going unless SG acts now, not tomorrow but now.
Only woofing like.
Bob like Boroexile my thoughts are that our infrastructure is somewhat less than credible. I believe the infrastructure has let the club down badly, not intentionally of course but like our midfield, too slow, predictable and simply struggling to function at the required level.
Now AK is a big part of that infrastructure and a huge influencer in it and on it. Anyone in doubt just look at the story today about the rumoured new Goalkeeping Coach, zero experience of the Premier League, English Football and the style of play but hey he’s Spanish so that’s OK. I’d much rather get hold of an English Coach who knows the Premiership and the nature of this league. We cannot afford any more eccentric oddities that panders to the whim of a Manager whose credentials are now under such close scrutiny that the bookies have him favourite for the axe. Like the Gestede signing for £6m it shows the mentality of the individuals making these decisions.
Whether its ridiculous shirts or just failure to bring in wide players in January (Spartak is close to the truth when he alludes to who in their right mind would want to come here if they are an attacker) or swapping Nugent and Rhodes for Gestede and Bamford there are decisions being made which simply don’t sit right. Squad improvement? I’m unconvinced. Lets be honest for what Valdes and Negredo are costing SG in wages and the return on that investment if I was SG I would be extremely uncomfortable in trusting anyone in the club right now with recruitment or capital expenditure of any sort.
Going off on a tangent, I was speaking to a Stoke supporting friend on the phone today and as usual the conversation took about 45 seconds of work then 15 minutes of football. Our plight was raised and I was explaining about our defensive qualities and he replied “what defensive qualities? If AK was such a good defensive Coach he wouldn’t need 9 players behind the bloody ball, and this comes from someone who suffered Tony Pulis at the Britannia for over 6 years.” (I should add he refuses to call it the Bet 365 Stadium).
I did point out that right now there is a seemingly growing contingent of Boro fans who would see Pulis as exciting and entertaining! His retort was unprintable but I’m sure you can imagine.
How come no one is on Steve Gibsons case for not spending on experienced premiership players if not just to stabilise this season, The likes of Fischer,Traoria, these new two in the reserves, are not ready yet for the slot,
The likes of Gareth Barry, Charlie Adams, Morrison,would have been better at this time,
So It goes all ways.
I’m not sure I’d get on Steve Gibson’s case for not spending more on experienced players in his first season – transfers are one thing but it’s their contracts that kill the club in the event of relegation.
I think our spending this season will have been with one eye on it being sustainable in the event of relegation, which probably limits the club to only having a few experienced PL players – I’m sure players like Gareth Barry would have commanded a fair whack, and you’d probably need to offer a 3-4 year contract. Negredo is on a 100 grand a week but it’s limited to one season.
You also have to remember that the club don’t receive any PL prize money until the end of this season – so any spending so far is debt. We know that going for broke and piling up the debt is one of the main reasons clubs who are relegated (even with parachute payments) sometimes drop further as they slash their wage bill.
We shouldn’t forget how long it took the club to recover from the relatively modest Strachen splurge – Mogga had to practically operate with buttons until the club had got these higher earners off the books – by which point he’d been replaced by Karanka who inherited a shiny new cheque book.
Are there not any any Striking/Shooting/Attacking Coaches in Spain or anywhere else at the moment that are available?
Considering our situation and lack of attempts on or off target, let alone goals scored I would have thought that would be a priority over a goalkeeping coach. Unless of course Abad’s revolutionary techniques include Simon Cowell type Cuban heeled football boots for Valdes.
Is Leo not capable of “coaching” verbally whilst someone else does the kicking of the ball for shooting practice? I know its a crazy idea but how about Forshaw and Clayts shooting at the keepers whilst Leo coaches, he’s not normally short of a word or two. Who knows the pair of them might learn to actually hit the Keeper instead of the floodlights, win/win!
I think paul (with the lowercase p) and Spartak are onto something.
It seems to me that AK is trying to improve Boro’s players but by making them all rounders in a method of tiki taka that worked wonders for his fellow countrymen.
Yet right now that ethos is horribly misguided.
It is true that AK’s methods are actually common among the best of managers and even attack-minded dreamers. Who was it who encouraged a young Roy Keane to drop deeper and play a more protective role? Robbo, under who we really dared to dream. Who, as I’ve said before, didn’t believe in poachers and built from the back? Fergie, of course.
The comparison immediately loses all weight when you realise one is comparing a successful United team with a struggling Boro team who don’t have the kind of quality that can improve in the same way United players do.
Ideally AK would have loved it if Adomah and Reach could cross, score goals AND put in a shift as part of the team, with the emphasis on the third as it guarantees a result no matter what. But they are Adomah and Reach, not Beckham and Giggs.
Taking time to improve players’ all around game is all very well when you’re getting results at the top of a division but now it’s a very different story.
This is probably also why we struggled to attract the names we needed in January. When your targets see your club is top of a division, going places and/or has been promoted, they’re a lot more likely to be interested. Not now.
I guess we can talk all we like about our reservations about Karanka’s tactics, but it sounds like there will be no change judging by a quote from the Boro boss after the Spurs game in reference to the upcoming games against Crystal Palace, Sunderland, Swansea and Hull – “If we play in the way we played today, we will win those games”.
It’s just meaningless spin as the minor detail of no shots on target would seem to preclude the possibility of winning this way – OK we may not lose those games playing like Boro did on Saturday but I would hope to see more attacking intent against teams with a -25 goal difference.
I would be worried if we play with the same game plan in those games – surely it was just a throw-away comment.
SPARTAK – is close to the truth!
paul & SPARTAK – are onto someting!
Tell me it ain’t so. Tell me it is but a double annomaly.*
No doubt normal service will soon be resumed. I put it down the unusual character of 2017 – I mean even John Bercow, a Conservative, is rejectin the Trumpster & being applauded from the opposition benches.
The world has teetered right off its rocker.
Lol
* Spartak staggers off stage and goes for a prolonged lie down, back of hand raised & restin on fevered forehead.
“OK we may not lose those games playing like Boro did on Saturday but I would hope to see more attacking intent against teams with a -25 goal difference.”
There are two teams on the pitch though. Spurs are a very good side. If we show the intent we had v West Ham and West Brom then I’m confident we can get results against the teams below us.
Previous performances against alternate opposition in no way shape or form guarantee success against other competitors.
Every manager of worth comes out with the well used line ‘We’re taking one game at a time!’ Why, because in part every game offers unique challenges that are dependent on multiple dynamic factors, that is unless the opposition are so damn predictable you hardly have to try.
Fergie was once quoted as sayin ‘Everyone knows how we play, but its upto them to try to figure out how to stop us’. Unfortunately, BP, the opposition have figured out our weaknesses & it appears we haven’t sussed theirs enough. Or we simply dont have the ‘tools’ to do the job. So, although I hope you are right, in that we will win these games, I’m not convinced we shall.
Borophil –
There was very little attacking intent against spurs or more precisely very few counter-attacking moves strung together – Yes Spurs are a good side but so were Arsenal and Boro created far better chances in that game playing 4-2-3-1.
I’m just not convinced by Karanka’s version of 433 – for some reason he’s decided it’s now the way to play. But he only switched to this for the first time for the trip to Man City, who at the time were top and had just beaten Barelona 3-1 and won 4-0 at West Brom the previous week.
Maybe he felt he needed to ditch the number ten and have an extra defensive midfielder cover for this game but has decided to stick with it since then. I posted earlier that it has not statistically made Boro concede less than the previous 4-2-3-1 system but it’s certainly reduced our potency at the sharp end. Just twice have Boro scored more than one goal in the last 14 games since the defensive midfield trio was introduced (Swansea and Leicester) – with 5 goals in the other 12 games.
Hull and Swansea are now better organised under their new coaches and will need more unpicking. Palace will always have a chance of a goal from a set piece under Big Sam and Defoe for Sunderland is always fancied to score one – which could mean Boro may need to score twice to win.
So yes there’s another team on the pitch – but they’re not all Man City or Spurs so why choose a system geared towards playing them? I’m not sure I see the logic in playing that way against teams we really need to pick up three points against.
Werder
Something you posted the other day about 433 not working and in the post above about Arsenal didn’t seem to stack up.
We first played 433 at Arsenal – de Roon, Clayton and Forshaw all started. Including that game in the matches up to Burnley we won, 3 drew 3 and lost three. We scored 9 and conceded 7.
In that run we played Arsenal, Citeh, Liverpool and Chelsea who were all playing well at the time. In a league of 20 teams that makes the top six half the league!
The wheels started wobbling at Burnley on Boxing Day when we should have got something from the game – we are not the only game to dominate possession at Burnley and lose this season, we should never have lost. Oddly that was on Boxing Day Then two late goals at ManU.
At that point we were creating some chances, they have melted away and now we are struggling for points.
As AV often told us AK doesn’t believe in such things so this is not the dreaded Post Christmas slump but a slump after Christmas.
I think it is fair to say pre Burnley we did quite well out of 433 but it is now a busted flush. It has coincided with the absence of Gaston and George has missed a couple games. That should make no difference to a squad everyone lauded the club for in September, well, not everyone.
AK is the at the head of the football side of the club, his responsibility is to make what he has work to the best of his ability.
Two things spring to mind, I don’t think he is getting the best out of what he has available. The second is something that more are coming to accept, the squad isn’t as strong as many think.
Whether AK can get more out what we have will become evident the coming weeks.
Ian
I did say, as many others have, last season that AK is/was not getting the best from his playing squad. Last season we had a squad in my opinion that should have won the Championship. We staggered across the line with 5 draws only on the final day did we gain promo on goal difference.
The problem lies with AK. He is a systems manager & a defensive systems manager at that. He has shown no self inclination to change. He hasn’t got the levels of emotional intelligence to be a superior man manager – there lies the flaw. To be a great manager you need emotional intelligence- AK by his own admission is grossly in deficit.
For general interest I refer my fellow posters to ‘Working with Emotional Intelligence’ by Daniel Goleman. He states a study of leaders shiws that 70% of traits required to be a star perfoming leader are emotional intelligence traits. Only 30% are technical traits.
Our manager is, IMHO, 30-70 ie more technical intelligence traits than emotionally intelligent ones.
Thats why we are fighting a relegation battle.
I thank you
IF 433 is indeed here to stay, then the 3 cannot continue to be Clayton, Forshaw & De Roon.
I saw another interesting stat from AV in the Evening Pravda this morning. It was assessing Guedioura’s debut and noted that his pass completion was around 58%, also noting that most of these were forward. AV concluded that he was some way short of the 80%+ that Clayton and Forshaw manage for pass completion, and that by definition Guedioura would need to improve to hook a starting berth.
Is this the world we now live in? I suspect that we may be getting a little crumb of insight into the world of AK here. Perhaps an 80% pass completion ratio is the minimum standard required? They say that McLaren, perhaps our last overly stats-based manager, was always pinning stats up in the changing rooms and ranking the squad. Perhaps one of AK’s golden ratios is pass completion? If so, and I am making a supposition of course, it could explain the tippy-tappy play in the middle. Yes, Clayton may achieve 80%+ pass completion, but if 50% of those passes are 5-10 yards and sideways then whoop-di-bloody-whoop – what is that going to achieve?
That one piece of analysis though highlighted something for me. In those 58% of completed passes, mostly forward, Guedioura generated more attacking impetus than the 80%+ of Clayton and Forshaw. Indeed, Forshaw currently ranks 8th in the entire Premier League for pass success (PS), at 89.9%!!! How does Forshaw compare to some of the other “attacking” players currently having success in the Premier League.
Well, Sigurdsson at Swansea, who I’d have at Boro in a heartbeat, has a PS of only 75.6%. But he has 8 goals and 7 assists. Snodgrass at Hull had a PS of 82.9% but 7 goals and 3 assists.
Defour – PS 80.5%, 1 goal, 3 assists
(and for some flavour from the expensive end)
Pogba – PS 85.2%, 4 goals, 3 assists
De Bruyne – PS 81.1%, 4 goals, 9 assists
So what is my point? Well, Forshaw can consider himself one of the 10 best PL players in terms of the success of his passing, but he has 0 goals and only 1 assist to his name. Ramirez has a PS of only 76%, but 2 goals and 3 assists. My point is this – if AV, and indeed AK, think that Guedioura must raise his PS to Forshaw’s standards, then I would disagree. Yes, 58% is a poor completion rate, and must be improved, but I would rather he sacrificed 10-15% “success” vs. Forshaw but generate the assists and goals of Sigurdsson or even Ramirez.
Pass Success is not the be all and end all, and if we (Boro) focus on it as being a key metric, then we will never score the goals to keep us up.
Oh, and before someone picks me up for comparing Forshaw to players who operate a different role, let’s remember that Forshaw is, in essence, our new Number 10 in a 433. He is therefore supposed to be one of our playmakers, as are the other players I’ve chosen.
I think Forshaw being part of a midfield three has actually made him less effective – when he first came into the side as part of a midfield duo he was not only good defensively but much more progressive with distribution. Perhaps having fewer options in front of him has curtailed his attacking intent.
Though agree with you main point that 433 has to include a non-defensive midfielder – I don’t think you can ask a defensive midfielder to play more attacking as they will mostly revert to their comfort zone – besides can’t see a decent shot in either Forshaw or Clayton.
Ian –
Just re-checked that Arsenal line-up and I must have overlooked seeing Forshaw’s name before (perhaps he was listed as the number ten in the shock of Karanka abandoning 4-2-3-1 for the first time) – though Boro did revert back to 4-2-3-1 for the next game against Bournemouth, which we won 2-0 of course – then came Man City and the start of Boro playing 433 as the norm.
Though I don’t see how it changes the overall point on the scoring goals when playing 433 – after all Arsenal was 0-0 in the end. Those 9 games you selected when we scored 9 included those two games I mentioned as the only time we’d manged more than one goal against a very poor Swansea and Leicester in which 5 of the nine were scored – so that was just 4 goals in the other 7 games selected.
You can make the case if you want but I’ll not be convinced about playing with three defensive midfielders is the way forward for Boro to succeed – it hasn’t developed the team into an attacking force and it hasn’t made any difference in the number of goals we are conceding.
Plus it’s not just down to missing Gaston as in his last ten games in 433 Boro failed to score in 5 and scored once in three others.
Cheers Gents for the number crunching & the systems analysis.
I wonder who from the management team can grab it by the scuff of the collar & send it out onto the field with all guns blazing?
Anyone care to mention a name or even two?
Hmmmm!
While I’m at it –
I stood in the Holgate watchin the Boro v Portsmouth in the semi final of the old league cup.
The teams were slogging out a stalemate in the middle & Lenny Lawrence sat placidily in the Boro dugout. Then, up jumps Jim Smith & makes his way to pitchside. With a mighty hollow he beats his chest with his fist and calls out to his Pompey players. Soon thereafter Pompey scored & I believe they made their way to Wembley. Lenny watched Jim & continued to sit placidly on the bench. I do believe he even shook Jim’s hand politely at the end of the game.
Kinda reminds me of AK’s smile as he shook Dyche’s hand after Burnley took 3 points off us.
Just reminescing like.
🙂
Correction
It was the FA Cup 5th Round they, Pompey, went on to win 2-4 & played Liverpool in the semi-final.
Just correctin like:)
Werder
Of course it isn’t, it does highlight something that has worked for a while and isn’t now. The game.
It is always ifs and buts, we do know we will have to change but will AK do so?
We shouldn’t be reliant on a couple of players but we seem to be hamstrung without say George and Gaston. Fabio at left back is ok but moving him over to the other flank weakens the right side of the pitch. Son just ran at Chambers all afternoon.
Our midfield three has little attacking threat and Grant wouldn’t add much valiant though he is.
My view is revert to 4231, cant make things worse.
Ian
I think what I’m trying to say is playing with an extra defensive midfielder doesn’t ultimately lead to conceding fewer goals but it has reduced the number being scored. So I’m not sure what it was that worked so well that Karanka persisted so long with it.
Of course there is also the additional problem that if you do have three defensive midfielders there is a good prospect that a proportion of what chances are created will fall to players where shooting is not how you say their forte.
Then there’s the ineffective set-plays which often are taken by Clayton or Forshaw – I think the only thing Clayton looks like he’s practised is raising his arm meaningfully before lofting the ball harmlessly into the box. It also seems having the three players who like to play short safe passes also results in more of the same when we win a free kick – it’s like the free kick is a distraction that’s best got out of the way.
But yes the return of George and Gaston would allow for a more balanced team – we need players to give the midfield options when passing and midfielders who also see the options. I’m thinking maybe a de Roon Forshaw pairing would be the most flexible arrangement in a return to 4-2-3-1.
Hey but it’s all academic as only one man will decide what team is selected and he’s like a dog with a bone once he’s got something in his head – albeit a dog seemingly without teeth.
My view is that the 433 was effective for a short time but long term would work with a Fabregas in that three rather than the perm three out of the four we have.
The absence of Gaston and George just compounds the problem.
Throw in the fact our front three are not Hazard, Costa and Pedro and yet more limitations are apparent.
We are not having a pop like Burnley, we don’t have a Defoe or Gylfi.
All these not so little points add up.
The squad is workmanlike, ie they work and work hard. They are painters but of the painter and decorator variety, you wont get a work of art but will get a good magnolia matt finish.
And a touch of distemper by the manager aimed at fans and the board
PS on 433
I am not privy to what takes place at Rockcliffe or the thinking of AK but after the Leicester match I wonder what was going through his mind, he had seen two points evaporate away at Leicester in stoppage time, lost a point due to a keeper ricket at Burnley, lose three points in the last five minutes at ManU, could have won against Leicester at home.
It is all ifs and buts. We didn’t get the points.
Indeed, he then lost his creative fulcrum for a month and found his shopping list in the bin.
The toothless dog turns on the fans who cry attack attack attack !
Interesting posts and points of views. However as the games are now running out, or that is the next 7/8 that we see as the best chances for points, AK will freeze,
.
We have no wriggle room, so he will try and hold what he has, one point and try possibly as the game goes on to snatch a goal and the three points. The problem as we all know and he does to, is that clean sheets are difficult to achieve, so we will need two goals probably to get the three points. Can we score two goals on a regular basis…..not on your life, not with the present set up.
The other teams are scoring goals which will give them a better chance to gain the points to stave off relegation.
Just read the local rag article on numbers of points that will get you relegated….probably.
What was strange if I understood, was that they only talked about the bottom three and the points those teams had when relegated.
Is is not the number of points the fourth from bottom achieved, because that is where we are aspiring to be. Well I think we are???,
I think the problem with AK is that he was good at no2 job because he was the defence expert. Very often a n expert makes a good no 2 but cant see the whole picture. Thats very true in my industry where the guy at the top isnt as proficient as the No2.
So AK is not No 1 material as he also reverts to defensive coach. The answer is to have a manager not a coach.
Yea I thought about this manager head coach business
Perhaps we need a Director of Football ?
Directors are usually hopeless – give me a good manager any day.
All rolls the ball over to Bob for a tippy tap in.
Am i late ?
🔴 Well poached and scrambled over the line after being egged on by Allan…
– – – – – -🚗- – – – – 200
OMG – a poacher!!
Sorry Bob. That was very rude of me 😉
I couldn’t score as I was offside as usual
Accidentally checking today’s posts at the right time 🙂
If AK sees you scoring he’ll put you on the naughty step
We need some tactical supporting.
Leicester host Derby in the FA Cup replay tomorrow.
Do we want a dispiriting defeat to further demoralise their squad. It was interesting that on Saturday we went one down and gave it a go, Leicester deflated like a popped balloon against ManU.
Do we want them to win and have another fixture alongside the Champions League and Premiership.
A Forest fan suggested Derby to lose after the Foxes get through playing poorly, helped by a few dodgy decisions, in a penalty shoot out with a few injuries and suspensions.
Tricky.
Ian
I suggest neither clubs wantvto progress. Derby’s main concern is promo to the pigs trough. Whilst Leciester want to stay in the pigs trough.
It’ll be a case of ‘Here you shoot!’ ‘Not me. You have the ball & you shoot’. ‘Not on your life. Have it back!’
And so on and so forth till someone tires of it & sticks it in the net.
Could be Leciester City go onto the final, get beat in extra time & relegamalated on the last day of the season – sickiner@
Spartak
The fans don’t quite think the same, the clubs may well do so.
OMG!
Agreed!!!
I’m off for another lie down.
Lol
I am having a double Laphroaig. If I lie down I may have nightmares, Spartak sat next to me on Question Time agreeing, viewing figures shot to bits.
Apparently a tape has emerged of Karanka coaching Adama from the sidelines – here’s a brief transcript…
Run! Run as fast as you can! Go! Go! Go! Shoot! Cross it! Cross it!
Stop! Get back as fast as you can! Get Back! Tackle him!
Run! Run as fast as you can! Go! Go! Go! No wait! Get Back!
Get back as fast as you can! Help Chambers! Get Back! Tackle him!
Run as fast as you can! Go! Go! Go! Pass! Go! Go! Go! Cross it!
Stop! Get back! Get Back! Tackle him! No Don’t Dribble! Please! No!
Run! Run as fast as you can! Go! Go! Go! Stop! Go! Go! Go! Stop!
Defend, defend, defend.
Attack, attack, atta….. – er be proactive.
There is also a tape of adama’s response but it was a very short clip…only two words long… and after editing reduced to one…off!!
I’ll let you fill in the dubbed word yourselves!!
I’m…?
Thinking outside the box len. I like it!
Just to say …love this new DiasBoro blog…thanks to everyone..utb
Just catching up on the day and several of the posts made me laugh out loud! We’ve got to keep our sense of humour up at the moment, not much else to smile about.
Weders transcript was great and I think the passing percentage game is probably not far off the mark.
I don’t know what goes on at Rockcliffe but it sure doesn’t include practicing set pieces which are the only way we have a hope of ever scoring. You would think that they should be repeated over and over again a la Jonny Wilkinson with his kicking drills.
I suspect that the drills are more along the following
Right lads, we have a free kick just outside the box, hands up who wants to take it? Ok, the plan is to keep the passing ratio up so, in your own time, play the ball across the area, nice and slow like, to Downing, then back to Foreshaw, across the middle to Gibson and back to Valdes. Great, now hoof it up in the general direction of Negrado but don’t forget that in all likelyhood it will come back to us so get into the defensive lines we have worked on.
Depressing stuff and it’s only Tuesday!
I was impressed with the 352 formation we played lately, and that for me is what we should use against Everton,also their full backs like to attack,so we could exploit that space behind,I wouldn’t use Traoria, in this one or Chambers at wngback,I would also play Ramirez off of Nagredo as a striker,but high up,he is smart at getting between defenders.
For me
Valdes
Chambers,Bernard,Gibson
Fabio,Leadbitters,Clayton,DeRoon,Downing
Negrado,Ramirez.
Leadbitters and Clayton no their job DeRoon can support,Downing could be an issue, but I think he would buy into it,
Plus it would give us a decent bench,
The other option is a back four, using a sweeper, and Ayala Infront man marking Lukaku
Werder
Did you miss the midfield three?
To you, to me, to you, to me, to you, to him, bugger!
Then we have the centre backs, 10,9.8…..1, Rockcliffe, we have launch.
Ian,
I believe that the countdown is to “…3,2,1 -Rockcliffe, we have lunch.
Len
Having watched defenders making astute passes to attackers I believe it is the launch scenario.
Willing to be proved wrong but seeing is believing.
I’ve just posted a new mid-week blog where Simon looks back at the story of Jordan Rhodes’ time at Boro following his exit last week.
https://diasboro.club/2017/02/08/talking-point-jordan-rhodes/