Our pair of happy-go-lucky Boro-mad muppets (aka John Powls and Ian Gill) have made their way home, no doubt with the assistance of their carers, gathered their thoughts on what was hopefully was a trip to remember. After all the excitement of the day they’ve had a short nap before putting their heads together and giving us their verdict on the game…
Pre match much discussion centred on Poison Burger or Chicken Balti pie. The vote went for the pie and a pint of Tetley’s. The pie was a clear favourite but the drink was the lesser of evils – Cider or Carlsberg – probably the worst kept lager in the world.
It was cold at Vicarage Road, in the ground the local fans did a good display in recognition of Graham Taylor. The Parmo Army were brilliant and when the pre-match minutes applause ended they broke into an impromptu chant of ‘one Graham Taylor’. What happened next was amazing, the home fans stood up and applauded the away end.
On to the, er, football. Pre match, we went for a line-up of Valdes with a back four of Fabio, Chambers, Gibson and Friend. Midfield of three out of Grant, Clayts, de Roon and Forhaw.
Up front Stuani/Traore, Negredo, Fischer/Downing. Grey haired old men with poor eyesight shouldn’t go to football matches!
Looking comfortable – if not exciting – in a new 3-5-2 set up that mirrored The Hornets, Boro had the balance of the first half possession but after the first twenty minutes the pace of passing slowed to pedestrian ‘windscreen wiper on intermittent’ and what little threat there was petered out.
In that early period, Boro had a ‘goal’ chalked off for offside – it looked the right decision from the away end. They also got Stuani – looking better down the middle as a two up top with Negredo – free in the box with just the goalie to beat but his lob hit the roof of the net from the wrong side and that was it before the break. But that was still one more effort than Watford managed.
Boro contrived to let Deeney get one on one with Valdes from a misguided and deflected punt that came down from a height. Short on confidence, the Watford skipper was indecisive, though the Boro gloveman was anything but, and he smothered the ball away.
Watford had most of the second half and although it was mostly ‘huff & puff’ from them, they got close enough for discomfort on a few occasions with Valdes making a couple of smart saves, a couple of free headers whistling past the upright that was then struck with the home side’s closest effort by substitute Cleverley, who had just arrived on loan.
It was Gestede’s debut too – as a second half sub for Stuani.
We knew that the ex-Villa man hadn’t been on the winning side in his last 32 Prem appearances and today was never going to change that and neither did the lanky striker impress.
He is what he is – and that’s bench fodder back up for Negredo at best – but he’ll struggle even more if he gets as little service as the Spaniard routinely has had to work with and once again had today. He did manage an off-target shot though.
We looked relatively comfortable and the better footballing side but you have to offer a threat up front. Watford bullied us at times with their physicality, a reminder that top flights players are not just better footballers but fitter, stronger and faster as well.
Valdes and Fabio were the pick for Boro, but if Karanka’s going to persist with 3-5-2 they need to find some pace for the front two and a central attacking midfielder with both pace and guile – a challenge to Ramirez, if the Uruguayan stays – to replace one of the central three who are all triers but far too much an identikit of each other.
Before the match, we didn’t want a repeat of the reverse fixture or the game at Southampton – the quality wasn’t that much better than those games but Boro went one point better with a welcome, if slightly fortunate, clean sheet. Overall, a goalless draw was a fair result.
What was shared with those games was Boro’s total lack of threat to the opposition goal – Gomes had to wait until 51 minutes to warm his gloves by turning aside a Fabio shot. When the Brazilian keeper had to be replaced with injury, Mazzari needn’t have bothered bringing Pantilimon on, so underused was he.
Stadtler: “I didn’t see much again”
Waldorf: “Were you looking the wrong way again, you old fool?”
Stadtler: “Yes, I was facing the pitch!”
OK a point’s a point away from home and it was never going to be any better than that – even against a woeful Watford – for a Boro side who remain desperately short of pace, punch and guile in the attacking third.
Even Karanka was forced to admit it wasn’t a good game to watch.
About five wins and three draws needed for safety. The three nil nils will be achieved easily enough but where are the five wins and five goals coming from to get them??
Statler: I know your a silly old codger but can you remember the last time we enjoyed a football match ?
Waldorf : Mmmm maybe when I had my own teeth and hair !
Just because I’m perplexed by the signing of gestede and the lack of opportunities presented to Jordan Rhodes, particularly given that we finally went two up top today. Some career stats.
Rudy gestede: averages 1 goal every 5 games through his career.
Jordan Rhodes: averages 1 goal every 2 games through his career.
In fact despite being two years younger Jordan Rhodes has scored approximately three times more goals in his career than rudy gestede.
But if your face doesn’t fit………
I say get off Aitor’s back, he’s brill like (& at this stage its futile thinking he’s either going to change or get the sack).
Jordan Rhodes is sooo over-rated & he’s had a chance at West Ham – what more do you want (cud b on naughty step for simply not being Scottish enough).
Don’t worry about bein relegated coz
a) the teams below are really crap – except watch out for Hull as they sometimes aren’t crap.
b) Aitor says at end of transfer window (yes this one) we’ll have a much better squad when he gets rid of numpties and brings in his favs.
So happy days & keep smilin coz we’re EPL 🙂
Ina itor wet rust
Just sayin like like like – like*
* that last like is for Jonathon as he needs them for his Gazettelive articles like.
Being in the UK for a while and based in
London, I was able to get to the match with my son which was great after watching most games live on Austalian TV. I was sitting with the home fans and was able to enjoy the performance of the Boro crowd and see the reaction. There was genuine appreciation from the Watford supporters for the way the Boro fans joined in with the Graham Taylor memorial.
The first half was dominated by Boro possession. The whole team looked really comfortable on the ball but there was absolutely no threat. It was hard to imagine how a goal would come. The three centre back structure was ideally suited to deal with the oversized Watford front line and it left Fabio and Friend free to move forward in acres of space. The only problem was having nobody for them to really work with. Watford looked there for taking but there was always the fear that, once again, they would score against the run of the play. In fact they nearly did. The ball looped up and from where we sat right in line it looked as if Valdes could have come to catch but he made amends with a good save and another later.
The 3-5-2 structure, which morphed seamlessly into 5-3-2 when needed has a number of advantages. It allows two up front and Stuani started brightly but then disappeared. It also needs at least one of the midfield three to be a creative force. This can be a rotation whilst the others cover but, to be honest, it looked as if DeRoon was doing both jobs at once. He never stops and I can see him being a great player. Leadbitter was very solid but Forshaw had one of his worst games. He ran into cul de sacs and never looked like getting in a key pas or popping up for a goal.
In the second half, Watford remembered that it wasn’t just a GT memorial afternoon and applied some pressure and pinned us back to the point where a draw was a fair result. Karanka put on Gestede and he spent a lot of time right in front of us. He is big, has a reasonable touch and is superb in the air. However we appear to have nobody who can cross well from open play which begs the question of how he will get any service. He nearly scored from a half chance. We also play most free kicks short which may change a bit when he’s on. Gestede heads down for Rhodes to score 🙃. Having said that, he looks a reasonable buy.
Again, questions turn to what AK could have done. As Watford attacked, spaces opened up and Traore could have been an option. However, momentum was with Watford and I guess that he didn’t want to take the risk. I half expected Clayton to replace Forshaw just for fresh legs within the same structure. To be honest, with Watford pushing forward strongly, I’m not sure that there was a ‘winning option’ within the personnel that he had to hand. Holding onto the point was sensible. Where we lost the chance to win was in the first half when we totally controlled the game and we desperately need more creativity to take advantage of the possession.
Other than that we look like a competent premiership side that is a couple of players short of being a threat to anyone.
On to a West Ham and il be there again. Aren’t holidays great.
UTB
Werdermouth,
This is a seriously well put together site. Well done indeed and thank you
🔴 Much appreciated Richard – Werdermouth
A very good point, particularly as we were up against it 2nd half. A bit of a role reversal from the previous league game, a win against Leicester and a defeat yesterday might have been a better reflection of the games but 2 points it is. Three clean sheets in a row now, and the 4th best defence in the league – impresssive stuff.
Goals still look a problem though and we could have really done with Stuani putting that chance away yesterday. In the first half our final ball and decision making at times let us down again – I don’t think there is anything wrong with the systems and tactics AK adopts, but there is no doubt the attacking players we have don’t quite have the quality to make it work. If we can improve in those areas we could be quite some team.
It was good to see another new formation – what I would like to see now is AK varying these formations – it seems to be that if we have a good performance with one, he sticks with it – let’s mix it up and keep the opposition guessing.
I was as baffled as anyone by the lack of subs again – Traore for Negredo seemed obvious, to give us some pace on the counter without affecting our defensive solidity (and we still would have had Gestede as an outlet) – and why not at least do a like for like in midfield (Clayton for Forshaw?) to freshen it up a bit (or even waste some time if we were happy with a point).
Three home games coming up now in the next four (plus Accrington at home)- our home form remains good against the teams around us (3 wins and 1 draw in the last 4) so we should expect to pick some wins up – we’ve established a strong base, now let’s make the most of it.
By the way, our results against those outside the top 6 – P15 W4 D6 L5 GD +1
That’s pretty good – and we need it to continue.
As others have said, our last 6 games are tough so we really want to have got to about 38 points (which may well be more than enough to stay up) by then to give us some breathing space. That’s 18 points from the next 11 which sounds a lot but 6 of them are at home (only 1 v the top 6) and 5 are away (only 1 v the top 6, and 3 are below us). It’s a good run of fixtures and we have to make the most of them.
Boro Phil,
I too thought about Traore fir Negredo but I think that maybe AK wanted the extra height for free kicks and corners. We were under pressure. Other than that, it seemed like a logical suggestion.
yeah, that’s a fair point actually. probably another consideration in playing 3-5-2 and filling the team with centre halves based on their threat at set pieces.
It is not often I see eye to eye with BoroPhil, but his post just about summed up the situation. The way we play is never going to produce goals, not with the personnel we have at the moment, Gaston aside when he is up for it.
Just cannot understand the signing of Gestede, only as a bench warmer for Alvaro. Two up top yesterday, no pace, no crosses into the box to feed their strengths, apart from the Stuani chance absolutely nothing. The players we have just cannot produce the goods on a regular basis in the final third area and importantly in the box. Even if Rhodes had played it would have been no different.
Both full backs. is that what they were yesterday, had decent games, but with no end result going forward (apart from one shot from Fabio). George had plenty of the ball but has not improved at all his final pass….woeful would be kind. In Fact our passing generally yesterday left a lot to be desired.
I also agree with the previous posters that once again AK did not make the most of his permitted subs. Both Negrado and Stuani were achieving nothing in the second half, but to bring on our new super signing for Stuani just did not make sense, and he just looked a poor Negrado.
Leadbitter was struggling at the end and Forshaw was not having one of his better games. So with the defence under pressure and losing the midfield battle Clayton would have been a good exchange for one of them. He can tackle and win the ball, give us a bit of breathing space to get the point that AK had settled for long ago. De Roon although having a decent game, could not tackle a Sunday lunch and for a defensive mid-fielder it is a big weakness.
Still a point is a point, but as Never said, we will easily get the draws we require, but where will the wins come from to keep us up. West Ham will be a hard game and I am not sure the defence will be able to handle the crosses into Carrol in the box. This is where we miss Ayala and his heading ability as yesterday proved.
I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with BoroPhil, his insights such as ‘Goals still look a problem though’ today are enough to make even AK weep I suspect.
And quite how we are going to get 18 points from the next 11 games is beyond me but the point is valid. The coming run is not that difficult, on paper, and it will determine our season. We do have the players but the mindset has to change and now.
As an aside, I was astonished to learn Gestede had gone 32 PL games without a win before he joined us, 33 now. How on earth is a player of that losing milieu going to lift and help us? It beggars belief.
We’ve got 18 from 15 against the teams around us, so 18 from 11 isn’t out of the question. We don’t need 18 from those anyway (18 from the last 17 games would almost certainly be enough to keep us up) but if we got them in 11 we would have some breathing space and people can relax a bit.
And – Gareth Bale didn’t win a game with Spurs for four months, 25 games and 1,533 minutes. Stats don’t always tell the whole story.
I’ve very much enjoyed the three keynote articles this week – thanks, guys.
As usual we didn’t create much at Watford. The use of three centre backs with George and Fabio at wing-back matched up with Watford’s formation, but also enabled us to give those two more freedom to create, useful given that none of Ramirez, Stewy, Fischer and Traore were on the pitch for various reasons.
The first change of formation this season meant that we dropped the No. 10 from the roster of three positions for ‘skilled-on-the-ball game-changer creators’ on our team-sheet, and the use of Cristhian Stuani on the right takes away a second of them. Yesterday we were able to dispense with the left winger as well, so the lack of creative midfielders has gradually been solved by abolishing their positions!
I don’t necessarily say this as a criticism, yesterday’s formation was a response to various issues and was used by AK as the best option to get a result. Perhaps Traore should have been tried, but presumably he wasn’t trusted by AK to make the all-round contribution needed.
It seems very, very unlikely we could get Snodgrass, although he’d be an excellent signing*. Or unless Hull are employing the Kamikaze Theory of Premiership survival. Maybe Boban is a possibility if Stoke sign a replacement. But we desperately need to add creativity.
Stuani was once again the man to get into the dangerous positions with the offside goal and a lob onto the top of the net, but Negredo zilch. At Burnley he got into positions that gave him three decent chances, Negredo nada. Against Leicester we put 40 balls into the box without Negredo getting on the end of anything. Maybe there is a problem with Negredo’s movement in the box, and a Gestede-Stuani combination would have been worth trying in the second half.
*Indeed, a strategy of signing Snodgrass, Defoe, Sigurdsson and a Zaha/Benteke package deal would almost certainly guarantee survival.
“That’s 18 points from the next 11 which sounds a lot but 6 of them are at home (only 1 v the top 6) and 5 are away (only 1 v the top 6, and 3 are below us). It’s a good run of fixtures and we have to make the most of them.”
Fully agree with BP’s sentiments but that would mean 6 wins from 11 games when we have only won 4 from 20. Other permutations of course are available e.g. 4 wins, 6 draws and 1 defeat etc. but the level of improvement required is a huge upswing. As the season wears on and games start to run down my heart is hoping for such a turn in fortune. My head however sees it not changing simply because I see formation changes but zero effect up front where absolutely nothing ever changes with lowest attempts stats etc. Games like Southampton, Leicester and now again yesterday just seem to be the norm, Groundhog Day.
We will be faced with more clean sheets and binary digit draws in these forthcoming games and deep down we all know it. We now have the two West’s coming up at home, Ham and Brom. That should be 6 of those points we need because we can’t keep hoping that we will grow into this league anymore, that phase has passed, we are over the half way stage so lets hope the points don’t go West.
If BP’s “18 points from the next 11” prognosis is correct (which I fervently believe it is) that requires us averaging 1.63 points per game. Our season to date has achieved 0.95. For that to improve by that amount is a massive leap and it will require us scoring goals. Our attempts record isn’t poor its rank, its abysmal and not to mention soul destroying. I’m wondering if the Players feel the same? Is there now a mental issue so hell bent on keeping it tight that the belief that we can score is slowly ebbing and dripping away?
AK has to produce a massive turnaround in those 11 games, a huge sea change in his Tempest of what his side has produced not only in the 5 months of this season but also the final few months of last season. I don’t see it happening, the man is not for changing that is abundantly clear so “Icebergs ahead Captain!”. Lets hope those below us do not resurface
Does AK have the Players at his disposal to resurrect something and change our course? To me Downing, Rhodes and Ramirez would certainly be a positive for that run in and certainly more so than the seemingly untouchable Negredo, favourite Stuani and our new Premiership record setting striker. Throw Albert and Nugent into that equation and again I know who I would put my faith, confidence, trust and belief in.
I wonder when the penny is going to drop? Soon I hope as I can see another “end of season inquest” and “we didn’t see it coming” all over again. I wonder what all this positive PR spin offensive coming out in embarrassing bucket loads at the moment from the local paper along with rambling incomprehensible interviews with AK will make of it come June? Who will be first to ask those questions on that which dare not be spoken……
I’m reminded of a poem by Ric S Bastasa (who I’m assured isn’t by a Boro supporter or a Makem).
There is only one possibility for those below us
They go up the ladder of this illusion
And we who are up
Bears all the fears of going down the drain
Or if we are not vigilant at all
Resting on our laurels feasting with the angels
Soon we find ourselves
Falling
Finally crushed by the trains of our thoughts long insecure.
This is becoming surreal, I agree with BP. That’s two games in a row now. Can’t put my finger on what’s changed.
Like that poem, RR 🙂
How oft does delusion offer sweet comforts when all reality has to offer is a bitter taste.
UTB Like
It seems to me that we lack something in front of goal, no, I do not mean the obvious fact that we are not scoring enough, that’s pretty obvious.
To bring it down to the particular. The glaring faults which I see on televised football are as follows. One, all successful teams(in goal scoring terms) get an angle, no matter how tight the situation might be, the man on the ball will attempt to touch it either right or left and at the same time shove it goalwards with no backswing, he will do this whatever the state of the Six yard box, full of bodies or empty.
Two, most teams are desperate to shoot, the ball is given to them front and centre and they drill it low and hard, no backswing straight into the forest of legs towards the goal line.
Three, the curve ball aimed towards the inside of the far post, the favourite of all the sure shots, it is used at all times, when under pressure, on the run, through a Forrest of legs, from distance, free kicks. The success rate of this last is phenomenal, twenty per cent this weekend alone (Andy Carroll).
We use the straight shot with a long back swing at all times, and we do not bother to shoot when there are players in the way. We do not score many goals.
Fully agree with RR’s “when is the penny going to drop?” statement. At least AK had the grace to look thoroughly embarrassed by yet another turgid, frigid attempt. Unlike at Burnley and Utd, the team clung on this time, but really, is this what football is all about? Is this what we wanted our team promoted to behold?
Watch Aurnautovich’s second goal for Stoke yesterday. Two quick give and go’s and he is in. All teams struggle to defend against this sort of play around the box and yet this Boro team seem the only side in the division not to have cottoned onto this.
On the MOTD re-run, when Gabby Yorath says to Murphy and Wright “and Middlesbrough….?” there’s a sheepish silence from all three of them. They don’t know what to say anymore either.
Please Steve Gibson – it’s not working and it needs changing.
Plato
When watching other “better” teams play the speed of movement in getting into receiving positions or dragging defenders out of the game by making themselves available and thereby creating space is non existent with this present Boro.
Most of our players are behind the player in possession when attacking. There are no angles or spaces to the play the ball into so therefore the inevitable happens when George charges forward and he runs out of space because there are no readers of the game, no options unless he pulls it back or runs into a crowded out area of 3 onto 1.
When we do break and pass you can guarantee the receiving player will stop, stand still, look to play a probing ball then when realising everyone has regrouped will look to retain possession by passing back or sideways at best. Sometimes we are treated to Forshaw doing this looking left whilst passing right.
The inability to pass and run at pace with one touch doesn’t exist. As a defensive coach AK is brilliant, an an attacking coach I wouldn’t put him in charge of a Sunday Pub team.
“First clean sheet in 11 games for Watford” says Ben Shepherd on goals on Sunday. Defensively fragile and we test them with one shot on target. Says it all really.
Boro’s season has a real feel of the Black Knight in Monty Python. Following each insipid performance with yet another opportunity missed in games that are there for the taking, we* describe it as merely a flesh wound, the next few games will be different. Repeat ad infinitum. We will one day reach the stage where there are no next few games.
We are sleep walking towards relegation. There is absolutely no way that we will have 38 points prior to the last 6 games of the season (we’d be lucky to get this after the full 38) unless we see a drastic change to what has gone before.
The dreadful spetacle that is suffering through some of these Boro performances (Watford h&a, Leicester h, Saints a, WBA a, Burnley a to name but a few) is justified by some with a survival is the aim. That huge elephant in the room is that Boro are on a relegation battle & survival is not guarenteed by any stretch. What if we suffer through this and we still go down?
Another straw to clutch at is that with some new players in, AK will suddenly find the right attacking formulae. This flies in the face of the evidence of seasons gone by. From Tomlin & Graham, to Vossen & Kike, Downing & Nugent through to Ramirez & Negredo, if you only allow 3 players to attack, they will always be outnumbered and ineffective. There’s that famous definition of insanity at play here. For all his sterling defensive work, AK seems unable/unwilling to be able to marry it with an effective attacking outlet.
With the rare exception of McLeish’s Birmingham some time ago, those teams that survive are generally the ones that find the goals to win games. It would be a shame if deapite our defensive prowress, our powder puff attack leads to our downfall. This is where I fear that we are going.
*I say we exempting several voices on this blog
“What if we suffer through this and we still go down?”
Then AK will have failed and should suffer whatever the consequences are.
“We are sleep walking towards relegation. There is absolutely no way that we will have 38 points prior to the last 6 games of the season (we’d be lucky to get this after the full 38) unless we see a drastic change to what has gone before.”
You talk about a drastic change. RR talks about a turnaround.
But, we’ve won 3 of our last 4 at home against the teams around us (Swansea, Hull, Bournemouth – and we should have beaten Leicester). We’ve got a run of home games against the teams around us (plus away games v teams below us). We’ve proven we can beat them – so why should we expect that not to continue?
AK has given us the platform, and he needs to deliver now. I’m sure he is as aware of that as anyone.
BoroPhil….the next game is against West Ham. All games are hard and ours made harder in terms of winning by not scoring goals. As i said previously i think we will struggle against Carroll I just do not think we have the ability in the air without Ayala and although Valdes has played quite decently of late, he does not command the box to help with the aerial threat.
We will have to score at least two goals IMO to stand a chance of the win. Can we do it, not without Gaston who looks to be out for awhile yet. So who are going to create the chances and indeed knock em in?
Or made easier by the fact we usually only need to score one to win, not two or three? West Ham are Payet-less and beatable, but yes I agree we could have aerial problems with Carroll and Antonio (but we handled the latter well down there).
Who will create the chances and score the goals? Presumably the ones who did v Bournemouth, Swansea and Hull – though again, I accept the point that it will be harder without Gaston. Maybe we’ll have a new recruit by then.
Carrool wasn’t playin. He was injured. They WERE in a slump. Their not now.
Thunk again!
Truth is like poetry
Everyone hates poetry
Everyone hates the poet.
Antonio was though, which was the point.
Whilst I accept that AK genuinely believes that our PL status can be preserved this season by executing a strategy of being organised and not taking risks to avoid conceding – but why then are our set plays so ineffective and on the whole wasted opportunities – surely this is something that could be practised on the training ground to nick us that solitary goal that his strategy is seemingly built on.
Yes and I agree about the point of being more pro-active with the subs – for example when Fabio looked like coming off Fischer was warming up – clearly that was a scenario he’d thought about. But after 60 minutes when Boro were looking less likely to make a break-through Karanka decided to stick rather than twist.
It’s making me wonder if holding on to a point becomes his preferred option as a game gets towards it’s conclusion – besides surely a bit more energy on the pitch in the last quarter will be more desirable than hanging on with tired legs.
Clearly caution is ingrained in his mindset – it will get us so far but can he be sure it is enough to achieve his goal this season – sometimes playing the percentages also means taking risks at the right time in a game – he needs to learn when twisting is better than sticking I think.
I wonder do we even employ any attacking drills at training or do the forwards sit on a wooden bench and watch the defensive stars, must be inspirational, after all we have won 4 games.
If I was Steve Gibson I would be berating Karanka for his lack of enterprise and questioning how you can leave players being paid big money sitting around and giving them every Saturday off. Seriously I’m sure he would never allow this to happen in his business life.
Wake up and admit the “we will learn and play better next match ” is running out of next matches.
We are as embarrassing as the stupid shirt we wear for goodness sake show some intent to want to win.
UTB he says half heartedly, I am sick of trying to defend the Boro against fans of other teams who question why we are so boring.
Big thanks to Statdler and Waldorf for a terrific match report and an entertaining pre-match read. At the moment it’s more fun reading about Boro’s games than it is watching them.
I agree with most of what you have written mrmisanthrope, but we lack high-threat Premiership quality in our attacking midfield positions, and bringing in the right player(s) could help with this.
I think we’d all agree that Gastoniser arriving gave us a step-change improvement in that area which got us promoted, and offers our best hope of effective attacking play when he’s on form. If we could be sure he would be fit and at his best for the rest of the season I’d be less worried. Traore is a great prospect but I don’t think he’s going to be able to step up his contribution this season.
On the topic of how we attack, Watford are a team of tall, powerful players and I notice that they put the ball in the box from free kicks in the opposing half, and even from high in their own. I don’t know why we roll short balls sideways in many of those positions as if we are Arsenal or City and have very skilled creative players. We are struggling to create anything from open play but we do have some players who are effective in the air.
Good post Boronurk. This line struck a chord with me.
“I don’t know why we roll short balls sideways in many (positions) as if we are Arsenal or City and have very skilled creative players.”
i.e. Trying to play like the big boys when you’re a long way from being one.
I see what Aitor’s building towards and am willing to be patient – but that’s easy for me to say here in Northern Ireland.
Don’t the big boys also play it forward occasionally and score one of those, oh wait a minute, whats it called, mmmm, oh I know, I remember now, its called a GOAL! isnt it?
Phew its been so long I’d almost forgot what football was all about until I watched Everton with a teenager and a debutant today having a go against one of those big boys, if indeed not the most expensively assembled big boys (including their Manager).
Now I know we are not in Everton’s league but nor are Everton in Man City’s league but it didn’t stop them trying to win a game rather than draw or even lose narrowly. Everton have had a few ups and downs this season but when they do have a few ups it sends their fans home elated and makes up for the darker days whilst we just merely flat line, literally without a pulse.
Defensively we seem to have a fair few long termers hanging around for quite some time, with Friend, Gibbo, Ayala and in defensive midfield Clayts and Grant being around, even Dimi is still lurking in the shadows. If all 6 of those started our next game nobody would be remotely concerned or worried.
Conversely during his time here AK has gone though a fair few offensive players and yet none of them seemed good enough or consistently produced with possibly only Ramirez and Bamford excusably pardoned. Have a read through the ones I can think of:
Tomlin, Adomah. Kike, Bamford, Kike Sola, Negredo, Stuani, Kamara, Reach, Vossen, Wildschut, Nugent, Rhodes, Downing, Ramirez, Fabbrini, de Pena, Fischer, Traore and now Gestede
Thats a fairly comprehensive list of 20 players all of whom seem to struggle playing the Karanka way. Either we buy and loan an awful lot of attacking garbage or something just isn’t quite right.
I have no idea what Aitor is building offensively apart from obsessive compulsive defensive foundations but if he digs his foundations any deeper he will be coming out in Michael Beveridge’s back garden.
Is Bojan who has under performed in two Premiership seasons along with Gestede who has never delivered in the Premiership suddenly going to deliver more than say a Downing or a Rhodes? Glad its not my money being spent.
You backing off now Si?
Nope, Spartak – still around! Just taking in all your viewpoints.
It’s all gone quiet, are we ruminating? Do we feel anxious? Are we worried? Or are we a bit frustrated about the lack of goals?
Yes we don’t score many goals. Yes our football is a bit turgid and boring! But did we really expect to take this league by storm?
We were warned by our erstwhile Blogmeister that this was going to happen and to prepare for this.
Let’s keep our heads and don’t be like the uninformed calling for heads and sweeping changes I still believe we will survive this season and I’m looking forward to seeing who we get in to play for us this transfer period. Gaston made a big difference for us last year so hopefully new guys we sign will deliver goals and more importantly points
I don’t think any of us remotely expected to take the league by storm but having a little huff and puff now and then wouldn’t go amiss.
Some positive intent even if only for a twenty minute spell (per game not all season that is) would be nice. 8 draws to date and I’d be happier with having lost two of them for winning two of them.
Agree we hardly set the Championship alight…Redcar I will be watching for Karanka popping up in my back garden I know it will not be in the front garden he is only focused on one half. Ha Ha.
The difference of opinion on this terrific forum about the Boro between those suppoting AK’s strategy and those with major concerns about it Is marked. I occurs to me that the opposing views of contributors, while seeking to be objective, are largely based on how you feel about things.
Let me try to give you an example of what I mean. An old friend of mine supports AFC Wimbledon and has done for over 20 years, about a third of the time I have been a Boro fan.
I appreciate that the two teams are in very different Leagues but there are some similarities between them. Both were promoted last season, AFC to League One from League Two as Champions. Both have come back from the brink of oblivion. One moved to a new stadium quite a while ago now while the other has just received planning approval to move into a new stadium to be built on the site of their old ground at Plough Lane, Wimbledon.
The similarities end there. AFC Wimbledon currently has to share a ground with Kingstonian of the Ryman League. Attendances for home games are around 5,000. There is little money available to improve the team and so they get by on scraps. They currently sit in mid-table in League One having scored 38 goals and conceded 33. As for the Boro, they are light years away in the EPL, the promised land with endless wealth on offer.
However, whenever I discuss football with my friend he is always happy, enthusiastic, hopeful and positive about his team whether they have won or lost and on match days he is bubbling with anticipation. So why don’t I have the same feelings about the Boro at the moment as I have had for the majority of the 60 years I have been a fan?
Well, having given it some considerable thought, I have come to the conclusion that my friend feels that AFC Wimbledon, for all its challenges, is a vibrant club which communicates very well with it’s fans and has a team playing attractive football, scoring goals and winning often. I just don’t see anything similar with today’s Boro. It all feels a bit sterile and formulaic with the communication with the supporters through the local press tainted with spin and the vast amounts of money at stake apparently driving everything that happens on and off the field. There is no excitement there for me at the moment and little hope that it might return in the short term. Would I prefer to go to watch a team like AFC Wimbledon play rather than the Boro who I have supported since the mid-60s? Worryingly I find that question quite difficult to answer.
Does it have to be like that? I don’t accept that it does. Money isn’t everything.
So SG and AK – please, please, please give me (and many other fans) something to be excited about….!!
Si makes a good point on Twitter about how bad the 96-97 season was at times. Yes, it was exciting but we got absolutely battered a few times and had a spell where we couldn’t see where a win was coming from. This season may not be as exciting but at least we are in the games – bar the Liverpool and Everton games we’ve been in contention in every match.
I’d much rather watch that flawed sublime to ridiculous struggling 96-97 team, who had a go and drew games 3-3 with Liverpool & United, than the present flawed struggling team, that approach each game fearful and drew 0-0 with WBA & Watford.
I’d much rather stay up than get relegated.
Boro have won the last home match and drawn the last away match. Ok the former was in the famous (?) FA Cup, but the latter in the hardest league in the world.
Come on, let’s be happy and especially proud of the team. We could still stay in the league and might even win the cup.
Why not just enjoy and dream all this we have after seven long years in the wilderness? This could still be the most successfull season in our long history.
Up the Boro!
Delusional
Sheff Wed wanted the game like you & I would welcome gonnereha, ha , ha!
What’s the prob, Spartak? It’s the pigs trough friend – the money is more important than the game for Boro!
That’s the problem!!!
Bigger than that is the delusional or purposely decieving who would have us believe ‘everything is great!’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlQHUxVBTfU
Today it’s 2017!!
You sold yer soul for a few articles in the Gazette, Si?
Just askin like
Si
Has thrown his hat in our ring as a genuine Boro supporter
It’s difficult, I think AK has got defence and to an extent midfield sorted but the front end needs work, having attended the snoozefests that were WBA, Southampton and Watford yesterday I agree with RR that some huff and puff even for a sustained 15 minute period away from home would be nice!
I have to say Gestede made an impact when he came on and I would have been happier if Negrado had gone off rather than Stuani who for me is one of the few who looks like he has a goal in him.
Watford were certainly there for the taking, particularly in the first half, given the chances Watford had yesterday and missed though I consider it a decent point. Yes the football is unexciting but there is a bigger picture, we are 4 points above the relegation places and quite frankly if ponderous/insipid football is the way forward during our first season in the Premier League and we survive then who cares whether we end up occupying the last slot on Match of the Day or what pundits/anyone else thinks.
It’s imperative that we survive both as a football club but more importantly for the area as a whole. There is still a couple of weeks left of the transfer window and we have 2 home games coming up, AK knows that it is a results driven business, he strikes me as an ambitious individual and whilst he frustrates me on occasion which his team selections/substitutions I do believe that he is the right man for the job – lets keep a stiff upper lip and dig in!
We may have to put up with this boring negative football to survive this season and if we are honest it wasnt pretty last season either only we managed to win a lot more because of the poorer opposition but if we do survive and we play in the same style next season the fans will disappear in their thousands with no entertainment
NGUOB, what makes you think that, if we survive this season, next season will be any better? Can you really see AK creating an attiacking team with the flair and ability to score lots of goals and terrify the other teams in the EPL? Dream on!
You missed the point we won’t play any different whichever league we are in and it’ll drive the fans away.
No one wants to watch a snorefest and even the most hardcore fans are fed up
Redcar Red
Looked at you list of attacking players, tow or three were from Mogga’s targets. What is intriguing is how many have progressed since leaving Boro.
Not an extensive list. Some are still with us.
On a concerning note I listened to the tripe supper from the ‘other place’ – a parliamentary custom I intend to adopt for a newspaper on Borough Road in Middlesbrough.
In the podcast on the way back from Watford they mentioned the fact Gaston is likely to be out for the whole of January. That will focus debate on selection and recruitment.
There’s no doubt that AK thinks if he opens up more by pressing forward with more bodies, we will just concede goals and lose the competitiveness we have through our strong defensive capabilities, three swarm/smother/disrupt midfielders, and wide men who must track back relentlessly rather than stay further upfield in potentially dangerous attacking positions.
Although we are only four points clear of the relegation slots, we have a far more competitive record than the teams below us*. The trouble is that if a couple of them can force more wins than us in the run-in, we go down.
*We have taken points from 12 games, only losing 9. This means we can be pretty optimistic of getting something from most games outside the elite six teams. Palace and Hull have 8-13 records, Blunderland and Swansea 7-14. So they go into each game knowing there’s a poor chance of getting anything at all.
If we are not going to take risks by putting more bodies further forward, or by putting more than two primarily creative midfielders on the pitch, obviously the only solution is to improve the quality of our creative individuals so we can get more assists and goals out of those who play nearest to the opponents’ goal and our striker.
MrMisanthrope’s response to BoroPhil reminds you of this quote from Henry Winter about Tony Pulis.
“For Premier League football clubs, appointing Pulis as manager is beginning to seem like a Faustian pact. You are buying survival at the cost of creativity and flair. Once, West Brom’s fans, tired of coming up only to go back down, would have taken that deal. But the boos at the end of this, the third game of Pulis’s third season at the club, suggests that they are beginning to wonder whether pogoing between the top two divisions was more fun than this grim, glacial stasis. Whether they would rather be a yo-yo club than a so-so club.”
Having said this, it is easier to wax lyrical about and ignore the pain of 1996-97 with the immense benefit of hindsight.
Yep – and if we stay up, next season would have to be better – I don’t know what a realistic target would be, but if this year was survival, next year would be 45-50pts.
A couple of mentions of SG above – I’m obviously only guessing but I don’t think there will be any berating going on at the moment – I reckon SG will have said to AK at the start of the season – keep us up, however ugly, but keep us up at all costs. And that’s what he is doing.
Some Watford views on the match yesterday:
http://www.gloryhorns.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58712
“That’s what you get with a side full of defensive minded players”
“Uninspiring as ever. ”
“Mostly awful..no spark no flair no ideas.”
“Our lack of goals is a real worry and we’re going to get dragged into trouble if we aren’t very careful.”
“we are seriously missing any pace to worry defenders and push them back a little.”
Sounds familiar!!
That was Watfords first clean sheet in eleven games,they’ve only kept four all season and two of them were against us the other two were Swansea and Hull.
Even more baffling why we went so defensive against a team who leak goals.
No matter what system we play defensively we are sound but as soon as we get in the final third we are clueless
Redcar Red – Carayol missing from that very long list,…a point very well made as well re: the number of attackers AK has got through.
I was watching a magnificent game of cricket today – thoroughly entertaining despite England losing. Today was the 9th time they had passed 350 in an ODI – 7 of those 9 times have occurred since the 2015 World Cup, an occasion when England were humiliated and dumped out of the tournament playing an outmoded, outdated, stats and spreadsheets version of the game that was leaving them trailing in the wake of other countries.
They decided to change their approach totally, let the talent in the team shine, attack and keep attacking….the results have been amazing. People are flocking to watch them play and even though they are still learning and losing sometimes, they are winning not just games, but goodwill.
It just struck me today how much this team need to take a leaf out of England’s book. They’ve shown it can be done….but I feel that for Boro it will take Karanka’s departure to see it. Although I would be delighted to be proved wrong!
Must just also say a big thanks to Werdermouth again for such a brilliant job done on this blog, I find all the different views very interesting.
Well.
Despite the compelling viewpoints of many understandably dissatisfied fans, why do I choose to keep the faith?
Because…
Karanka has shown on countless occasions – as Lord Fergie did – that painful setbacks are normally the prelude to a sometimes glorious revival.
In his first season, he survived one win in 11 and seven games without a goal to finish the season with six wins out of eight, setting us up nicely for the promotion campaigns that followed. I think this came about after he changed his approach to play more through the middle after the wing men were nullified.
Doubts arose after two wins in five at the start of 2014-15, but he calmly got on with his job and only narrowly fell short of promotion in an exciting campaign. After the 1-0 home defeat to Reading AKBoro lost only once in fifteen and were two points behind the leaders.
Post Higgygate? AKBoro’s biggest ever win with a Jelle Vossen hat-trick. Then, a commanding win over the league leaders followed.
In 2015-16…
Five successive league wins came after Bristol City’s party-poopers and Albertgate. Painful away defeats at Reading and Cardiff preceded a trio of valuable wins, with an Old Trafford triumph in the cup as a bonus. Humiliation at the KC Stadium was the prelude to a run of eight league wins in nine with *not a single goal conceded*.
And despite the mutterings of “we can kiss promotion goodbye” after Charlton… I thought, “keep calm, let’s see”… and you all know what happened.
Even now, post-Watford, there are positive signs if you look hard enough. Chelsea and Liverpool aside we haven’t conceded a single goal at home in the league and cup post-Watford. And we’ve won four of those games.
Si
Your points are totally valid but the big question is why does AK have to get to those crisis points before something kicks on? There would appear to be some sort of psychological or mental barrier that has to go all the way to the seconds just before impact before swerving and rescuing the situation.
I think he is at a pivotal stage in his career. If he can create as well as defend or better still if he can create equally as well as defend then he could go on to become one of the truly great managers over the next 20 years. So close yet so far. I don’t see anything even remotely to suggest he has the ability to be creative and kill teams off either on the break or by intricate passages of play or by rope a dope softening up tactics.
This is his Achilles heel (as noted by other clubs managers who are unconcerned defensively) and of course why he is at Boro and not a Champions League side. I get the arguments (and believe they are with fair reason) about keeping clean sheets and drawing our way to safety but three points for a win was introduced for exactly this reason. Provided those clubs below us do not have managers that can resurrect their season with a few victories in the way you believe AK can (and history has shown that he can indeed spur a purple period but only when the chips are down) then we should be safe.
The Premiership run in does have history of sides who were looking fairly comfortably out of trouble, just on the cusp then sinking slowly into the quagmire in the last few weeks and likewise with one or two managers performing a great escape. Looking at our run in at the end and as BP has highlighted we need those points over the next 11 games or so to create daylight and breathing space because I doubt we will see many points near the seasons final few weeks.
Now is when AK has to produce that purple patch that has so become his trademark. Failure to do it over the 8 weeks or so and this summer will have a totally different mood around the club. For the record even if the worse did happen I still believe SG will keep faith in him seeing it as another learning step and a gradual improvement in his manager longer term.
Changing topic slightly, Nick Loughlin from the Northern Echo has a slightly different angle on his Watford match summary from the Gazette’s current campaign. Interesting to see how different reporters (like those of us on here) have different perspectives. Whatever suits our own narrative or confirmation bias will no doubt tint which is truer but worth a look either way.
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/football/middlesbrough/15025420.Change_of_shape__same_Boro_story/
But we’ve been in contention in every match bar Liverpool and Everton…but my friends who follow the gazette blinkered reporting line, remember we still have only won F O U R games, not good enough.
As for Gibbo saying to Karanka play boring negative football and drive the fans away,can’t see that occurring, after all this is Gibbos team and his money being wasted. Didn’t he say we will give it a real go in the premiership.
If you own a company or product you want to be proud of it, he must despair at the rubbish he has to watch as most of us are.
I have supported this club for 60 years and like a few others on here this the first time I feel the enthusiasm draining away.
Try to score some goals after all thats the main idea of the game….
The attendances have been excellent all season (including 23k for the cup game) so it doesn’t appear to be driving fans away. Maybe we will have a collapse in support when the renewals come out and you will be proved right – but I’d be surprised. The main idea this season is to stay up – we all knew that at the outset. The only blinkered ones are the ones who didn’t realise this or refuse to accept it.
Hmmm. That was more turgid than a half eaten plate of Christmas dinner left to go cold and unloved.
Perception is an interesting thing. When I saw that we lined up as 352 I chuckled to myself at how this will be viewed.
Viewpoint #1: AK proves that he isn’t tactically inflexible and switches formations to match the opposition
Viewpoint #2: AK shows, yet again, that he’s cautious and negative by matching up a team in wretched form who we should beat at a canter if we play our own game
Then as I started to think about the line up more, I became aware of further viewpoints presenting themselves:
Viewpoint #3: AK has given us an attacking line up with 2 out-and-out strikers, just like we’ve been begging for all season!
Viewpoint #4: AK has gradually reduced us from 4 attackers, to 3 attackers (by adding an extra CM), and has now taken it further and reduced us to 2 attackers – against WATFORD OF ALL TEAMS!
How you reacted to the above reflects your already entrenched positions on AK and AK-Boro, however I note that even the uber-optimistic are struggling to pull the positives from that one.
In my view it was horrendous and marked with, yet again, poor and defensive substitutions. It almost appears that on 60mins AK has some kind of decision tree which states that if we are drawing the game, we should play it out for a draw. I’m not sure when he will re-write his decision tree, but I sincerely hope it’s before we get to needing snookers. As much as I admire AK and the defensive steel he has developed, we play probably the most depressing football I’ve ever seen. There are times like this when you genuinely need to ask yourself, why do you watch football? For success, for entertainment, for escapism?
At the moment we offer neither of the latter 2, and only time will tell if we offer the first. My concern is that we have never even flirted with the idea of getting out of the bottom 6. Some teams may crash, others may rise (Burnley?), but we stay constant – and catchable. If, and it’s a big if, we don’t show signs of life and slowly stumble down the table then I fear for next seasons attendances, regardless of league.
It’s starting to get to the point where I wonder if SG would sack AK regardless of whether he keeps us up or not, just to move onwards from the tedium. Let’s hope for some creative fortune or that this is part of AK’s master plan and we will suddenly cut loose, otherwise he may put the whole of Teesside in a coma.
Strong rumours Bamford having this medical today so is this the end of Jordan Rhodes?
£10M according to Sky Transfer/ Telegraph, if correct the lunatics have taken over the asylum!
£10 m for Bamford never unless that’s is his wages for next 3 years as well !!
Can’t see it SG not that daft
Who do you think we have on the books would make us more exciting that is fit and have proved themselves this season.
Traore is a work in progress and no one knows what he will do, Fischer has been injured and is still a project, Gaston looks to be out until February by the look of it. Stewie elicits mixed views, he was at his best in a Big Sam defence minded team playing on the break, many grumbled when he came and are still grumbling.
De Pena, mmm.
Our midfield consists of continuity players, even Forshaw for all his energy isn’t a game changer.
It is a dilemma with many relying on our two home games to furnish us with points to move away from the drop zone. We need someone up their game.
I don’t think AK needs a crisis in order to kick on, such ups and downs are a normal part of life. Its a sign of strength to produce a positive reaction in adversity is it not?
It strikes me that some of the criticism of AK this season is the result of his own ‘success’. As has been mentioned Boro have been competitive in virtually every game played, which I guess is a surprise to most of us, it has been a surprise to me for sure. By being consistently competitive but then drawing games we ‘could’ have won over and over again (it feels like), then frustration builds up and criticism comes the managers way because he is ‘too cautious/defensive/unambitious’ etc. Where as there is an argument that he’s doing an excellent job so far and if the team continues to develop and we eventually find a goal scoring formula we’ll be up and away.
As for the argument four wins so far isn’t good enough, isn’t it? It may be disappointing but its good enough so far, if we repeat the first half of the season in the second half and end up with eight wins and however many draws then we’ll stay up, which I believe is the general definition of ‘good enough’ on Teesside this season for expectations of the Boro.
There is no doubt so many draws are frustrating and so are drab performances, but away from home draws are good results and it is the home teams job to entertain.
Watford was a banana skin, with the death of GT and the emotion surrounding that we could easily have been overwhelmed and blown away.
PS – Thanks to Ian & John for an excellent piece and Werder, whose development of this blog has been nothing short of sensational, AV will be dead chuffed.
Excellent post, Nigel. AK has raised the bar with playing well most of the time but not winning often enough.
Have we been beaten by 4-0 in the PL., uet? We are a different team to Man City. And are better in defending.
In AK we trust (85%). Up the Boro!
OFB
Torygraph says the deal could cost up to 310m.
Ian what deal? 310m to sign Bamford? Don’t think he’s worth that much !
Thought your Watford piece was great
The initial “rumour” is that Paddy is at Rockliffe this morning having a medical with the initial fee being around £6M with add-ons taking it up to £10M.
Seems a bit steep for me for a player who hasn’t been the same since he played on at Carrow Road crocked when he should have come off. That said he does have positive previous here so that does give him some Kudos but the question I would ask is who else would pay £6M for him?
On the subject of expectations, survival is the sole aim and if we finish staying up on GD then AK will have achieved that so job done. If he doesn’t achieve it then we could be back down again and we know only too well that coming straight back up isn’t guaranteed.
I don’t think anyone on here is blinkered or refuses to accept that staying up is the sole objective, quite the contrary in fact. The frustrations are that had we gone for a few games we would undoubtedly have lost some but also by the same logic won some as well. Based upon the games where we “setttled” for a point rather than went for the win I personally think that we would have been at least 4 points better off than we are now. I get that it is entirely subjective and all about opinions but that is not being blinkered or refusing to accept the obvious from any of the bloggers here.
Come the last day of the season there will be some on here jumping up and down saying “I told you so, in Aitor we trusted” or there will just as likely be some saying “if only” looking back at all those Watford, Saints, West Ham, Leicester etc. games. I sincerely hope it is the former but so far into the season I think AK’s report card reads “could have done better”.
Lets hope he does do better because he needs to improve from 0.95 points per game to 1.63 points per game over the next 11 and that opinion is pretty much universal on here.
RR
Hopefully if we get Mr Bajangles Whatthefou and more importantly Snotgrass we should be a better team.
Bamford for 6m rising to 10m speechless
Telegraph saying 6mil with add ons. Unless AK is that that keen and Chelsea are saying for sale not loan, why would we take him.
Like with other players in the past it is usually never the same, a bigger risk than the first time. Look at Downing, he cost a lot of money we will never get back, played a lot of games and just has not lived up to the original expectations. I remember the Gazette and AV in particular saying he will be the one to fire us up. Well he was certainly no Merson.
And now it is to be Bamford. Great season at the Boro but wanted to try the EPL. Nothing wrong with that but he has failed to break through at each club he has been to. Has that been down to each Manager or to the lad himself?
I would accept him on loan but not at 6mil or any permanent deal. Can he perform in AK´s set-up, probably not, all of the others have struggled apart from Rhodes who has not been given a chance. But AK is willing to gamble on Bamford but not on Rhodes.
We need creativity, more so with Gastons injury and inconsistency I may not know much about football but I know that much..
In the absence of us acquiring a creative type, and lest face it everyone would love a few of those then with Bamford just as an example someone is going to have to feed him to allow him to get on those defence splitting runs. Ironically the player who is probably best placed to do that has just been told he can go. I’m not sure if all the thinking is entirely joined up at times, still we will know better come the end of the Transfer window. In Aitor I trust, 65% of the time.
it was interesting to see what Mourinho did when he needed to shake things up against Liverpool. He switched to long ball football and put Fellaini on to win everything in the air.
I actually thought that Gestede looked pretty good at Watford. He gets stuck in, has a good touch and is great in the air. I’d like to see him start the West Ham game with somebody alongside him. it could be anyone from Negredo, Stuani or Rhodes. I accept that we need to find some way to get crosses in. Bring in Deulefeu and Bojan.
Not sure about Bamford. However 6 million seems the going rate for non-playing forwards.
UTB
OFB
Flattery leads to forgiveness for spotting the alleged typo unless of course you hadn’t realised it was a report in the Czech Daily Telegraph and the fee was in Koruna. Don’t worry it is an easy mistake to make. Cough!
After Bojan and Deulefou as well. Snodgrass would be a better move, West Ham get Defoe and Chelsea Llorente, a move of club for Gylfi wouldn’t go amiss.
Bamford is a tricky one, they say never go back but TLF helped us win a cup. Mark Hughes went back to ManU, Stewie to us.
If we revert to 4231 or 433 there could be place for him as a left sided Stuani. The danger is we end up with Gaston, Negredo and Bamford as a left footed threesome!
He wasn’t fancied at Norwich, Palace or Burnley. He is a bit of a luxury player and is not physical like Negredo.
Ian
Yes I noted the typo!
Of all the players linked I think Snotgrass (typo) is definitely the key player for us to play the ball forward and get the strikers involved as well as scoring goals from midfield.
Yes we need a winger and Delafou and Mr Bojangles fit the bill.
Bamford well price is high but AK got him working to our system and he has transformed other players careers.
If we sign these players and the word that we dare not speak of happens then what??
Agreed Redcar, we’re probably four points light of where we could/should be. 1.63 points per game average from the next 11? I doubt we’ll hit that, we’ll need points from that last tough run of games I’m sure.
Bamford is an interesting one, I wonder what the plan is and what position he’ll be played in? Rhodes on his way seems a nailed on certainty now.
The man we need though is Snodgrass.
Agree Nigel, Snodgrass is a known at this level and the one that we could pretty much hang our hat on. Gylfi as Ian suggests would be another good fit and probably a comfortable step for AK to take, strong, solid, dependable but can create. I would think neither Swansea nor Hull would want them to go to Boro as they will both be hoping to leap frog us.
Bojan offers lost potential like Gaston did but will lightening strike twice? Paddy just might slip his old comfy Boro boots back on and save us with a couple of cracking runs and chips over advancing Keepers but considering his wilderness years its a huge ask. Interesting that HITC are suggesting nearer £4M for Bamford, its not normally a source I hold in good stead but that number with add ons seems more realistic. Perhaps the £10M is if we achieve a Champions League placing within 3 years 🙂
On Bob’s point about a left footed threesome Bamford did well on the right and cutting inside on his left foot for us previously. Him and Traore as a front two away from home could stretch defences with their ability to break away. Bamford is much more likely to get near Adama on a breakaway than Negredo and there is the always the option to bring on the big lads with 15 to 20 left and hump balls into the box. That however would need the willingness for AK to actually make the substitutions plus I think that Negredo is preferred for defending corners which he is extremely good at in fairness.
Maybe if we go with three big CB’s again we can afford Bamford and Traore away from home with George and Fabio on the flanks. I would just like to see one of the defensive three in the middle able to deliver killer balls instead of three defenders. That set up with Downing central pinging balls through to two front men would be an interesting set up.
Snodgrass is the ideal buy because it removes a key player from a struggler. Chatting with a chap on Saturday pre match and he has property in Wynyard, his wife is Scottish as well and are closer to the Picts.
There is always the language problem but I am sure the Spanish speakers would cope.
Wasn’t the goal this season a survival and one point per game? Boro have played 21 and have 20 points.
We need ahome win next and then we are up to the target. There is still hope!
Up the Boro!
First of all a great pre and post match report from Ian and John. The quality of the blog is fantastic and Weders tech skills much appreciated.
My views from afar, for what it’s worth, are that the objective is to stay up this season whatever it takes. The football is not pretty and I don’t think the players have the required skill set to do what AK demands.
As Bill Shankly may have said – the team that scores more than the other wins. Simples!
Trouble is we can’t do that and draws are not enough
6m for Bamford is a waste – he will spend more time on the bench I fear and when he gets chance, won’t get any service from midfield. It can be tippy tippy again. Possession only works if we can that killer ball through and we don’t.
I knew it would become hard to stay up and points hard won but not this hard and trying. As a Boro fan for 50 years I have seen it all so I guess I can put up with this season providing we stay up.
Can we do it? Yes we can! But and it’s a big but only if AK sorts the attacking side out.
If I were SG then I would be telling AK to keep us up otherwise at the end of season it is whatever goodbye is in Spanish!
A final thought to my ramble, on the financial side, the paying public probably firm a small part of the overall income with SG being focused on survival rather than bringing the punters in
In Premiership terms the income from attendances is pin money and almost an irrelevancy. Thats not to say teams want to play in front of empty stadiums but worse case would be that the away support at the Riverside could be offered bigger allocations and in a lot of cases would sell out.
If AK can get say a 20 to 25% improvement out of his front end he would like as not see a 50 to 60% improvement overall (1 point turned into three points). Very fine margins and one that offers so much and way beyond all expectations yet conversely if he doesn’t or can’t improve his front line the implications are unthinkable.
Some interesting views on the Bamford story:
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/754776/Patrick-Bamford-Middlesbrough-Chelsea-10m-Twitter-reacts-sportgalleries
Can’t wait to chuckle and see how it represents an audacious brave piece of transfer dealing at a bargain price when worked out over fifteen years or some such spin elsewhere when reported.
So long as the full £10M is only payable on Champions League qualification fair enough but I can’t see where the numbers (or competing bids) come from but if that is the price we are paying for Paddy then what is Ben Gibson now worth?
£10m for Bamford ? This is where we will miss AV’s input as he would give us a more realistic breakdown of the fee.
Come on BORO.
Please don’t let Ben Gibson be part of the deal and what can Bamford offer that Rhodes doesn’t already, and we’ve already got Rhodes in the squad? Baffling to me, wanders off talking to himself after pressing Post Comment.
UTB,
John
RR there is absolutely no point speculating who could play where. AK will have his own ideas and I am sure he will stick to them.
We have not get the best out of any of our forward players. We have gone from a fairly negative 4 offensive players in any one team to a paltry 3 offensive players. The forward players do not play as a unit but as individuals expected to do something special to make something happen.
The only players who have been able to adapt to this system has been those with pace who can bridge the enormous gap that resides between the midfield and the forwards. However, these self same players are also the ones who are scapegoated most when we don’t score or when they lose the ball due to running out of options.
Traore, for all his lack of end product would be the cherry on the top for an attacking side. The ability to do something out of nothing in a tight game. We’ve had similar players Wildschutt, Adomah, even Downing. Players with bags of ability but not consistent enough, primarily because when you only have 3/4 offensive players you have no passengers. Compare that to the defensive players, 7 or 8 in every single team. Have a bad game and you still might keep a clean sheet.
As for the signing of Bamford. I like him, I thought he was great for us. 6 million spent on him, although too much, is better than 6 million on Gestede when we don’t have any proper wingers. However, if he has been signed to play in the Stuani role I will hang my head. This was a role he was unable to perform ably in the championship. He only started performing when he moved to the lone striker role. But now we have Negredo and Gestede for these roles so where does he fit?
I can’t work it out. All I do know is that we have a guy in Rhodes who, although I accept may never have made it as a lone striker, has always been prolific in a front two. So if we are going down the road of playing a front two why has he not been given an opportunity?
Which leads me to ask is Bamford going to be signed as a right winger? I hope not because for me that will be another 6 million squandered to go with the 6 million for Gestede.
As I said on some other blog that will remain nameless, Bamford is the only striker to score regularly for Karanka and I would sign him on that basis alone. That said, he needs to be played in the middle and Negredo appears to be untouchable. Add Gestede and Stuani to the mix and it’s looking crowded, that’s before you add in Rhodes.
To me that suggests that he has been bought to play in a wide position (bangs head on nearest brick wall) and/or we have signed as one of those ‘because he’s now available’ signings, similiar to how Vickers described the Forshaw deal.
I think Bamford should be given a run up top. Rather than Negredo holding up the ball for support that never arives, Bamford would be making clever movement and runs looking for space, which I think would be more fruitful for us (could anything be less fruitful?). That said, Rhodes is simalarish and he has been exiled.
Looks like a very positive couple of signings if by chance the Boro are a Championship side next season.
Parachute payments & immediate return to ‘give it a go!’
Swings & roundabouts. The earth wont stop turning. A fair few wins, lots more goals via Bamford, Gestede etc., & & a nice eio last game at the Riverside.
Karanka stays thus keepin all that experience he’s gained at the Boro’s expense. And he gets to play a team of his choosin not someone elses – so no excuses.
Happy Days
The Guardian is reporting the deal for Bamford as being ‘around £5m’ rising to £10m , when as RR has pointed out Boro win the Champions League.
£5m doesn’t sound too bad, but its a risk.
How can Steve Gibson sleep at night with this managers’ stubborn philosophy ? Boro have now become ‘Bore O’.
Please please get Karanka out now. Get someone who will give our long suffering fans hope & excitement on every match day. Someone who will give our long suffering fans value for their undivided loyalty & hard earned money.
Why can’t this team be motivated in every single game & be up for it from minute one to minute 95 ? I’m talking also latterly in big games like the play-off finals etc.
I’ve followed Boro for over 50 years & this is the worst period of dross I’ve ever witnessed. I’m dog tired & I’ve even come out in spots… (note this OFB & I like your SOH !)
Over the last few years I find myself siding with the likes of spartakboro & boroexile, but still take onboard all the other excellent contributions on this site from other long suffering fans (you know who you are)
IMHO it’s time for supporters to stop being diplomatic, trying to guess or second guess Karankas mindset & to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt & vote with their feet.
The comparison someone made earlier with Boro & AFC Wimbledon was ‘spot’ on.
While I’m still on my rant ; whoever sanctioned the home strip should be paraded naked through Middlesbrough & dropped unceremoniously into the River Tees with that dreadful kit firmly on + an under inflated lifebelt.
My passport pic seems to have disappeared, can anyone help me on this please ?
🔴 I think you originally logged into Diasboro with a slighlty different version of your name and a different email address, which probably means your Gravatar (passport pic) is part of that account rather than this one – Werdermouth
Yes you’re right, thanks. Will try harder next time !
Bamford!! No No No
Hardly kicked a ball since he left us.
Scored no goals since he left us
Three credible managers Pardew Neill and Dyche wouldn’t play him
Chelsea have now decided he will definately never play for them so somehow have convinced need Boro to pay 5m+ for him
Give your heads a shake Karanka Gibson and Bausor.
Haven’t we wasted enough money already on Downing De Pena De Sart Rhodes over priced Gestade and De Roon (who still can’t believe how much we are paying him)
Luckily Moggas available to trim the squad and finances again when we go down
Just cannot get my head round the Gestede signing and now the immenent Bamford arrival. Have we got money to burn?
As much as do not think Rudy was a good signing with absolutely no back up CV to make you think, only as a back up to Mr Untouchable. Then along comes Patrick.
So is it now Rhodes out (not withstanding OFB who generally knows a thing or two) to balance the books in terms of fees, but cetainly not in wages, because we now have more “forwards” and I use the term loosely, than you can shake a stick at.
Why hasn’t or super duper scouts come up with a gem at say 12mil, half the combined wages, somebody who could possibly create something. You do not need Mr Orta and Garry Gill to find these two. Nobody else wanted them.
Well AK has surprised us all with his formations of late, he is certainly going to surprise us fitting all this lot in the team. And we may still have the winger he keeps talking about signing.
This all beggars belief. Still when its not your money eh AK.
“Lets hope he does do better because he needs to improve from 0.95 points per game to 1.63 points per game over the next 11 ”
Haway RR, this is comparing apples and oranges.
Firstly, this would take us to 38 points after 32 games, which would be safety with 6 games to spare. That would be some achievement, and it isn’t a necessity in order to stay up, it would just give us some breathing space.
Secondly, the 0.95 is from all games this season, including the big boys. A fairer comparison would be the points obtained in the 11 games against the same opposition. That was 12 points, an average of 1.09. If we repeated that again, we’d have 32 points after 32 games going into the last 6. That would probably be a bit too close for comfort, but all that is needed is a slight improvement to get us to where we want to be. Not a huge turnaround.
BP
The 11 games is from your previous post and numbers not mine.
If you honestly think that 1.09 from 0.95 makes a difference to improve to 1.63 then fine. It hardly feels any more achievable to me then but that is absolutely fine but we both know that unless AK has a massive change of heart or produces one of his famed purple patches after adversity its not going to happen.
We need wins not draws and we need to start scoring goals and its got nothing to do with entertainment its way past that now.
You misunderstand me – the 1.63 per game would take us to safety with 6 games to spare – which would be ideal, but not necessary to stay up.
1.09 would take us to 32 from 32 which would be a bit tight with the 6 remaining games – if we could get to say, 34 – that might be enough anyway but you’d hope we could scrape a point or 2 at least in the last 6 games. That wouldn’t take much of an improvement.
As for Bamford, I’ll be pleased to see him back but I do wonder where he fits in – I do worry for the blood pressure of some of our posters as it is probably on the right – I thought he did well there first time round but he was certainly more effective through the middle. Wherever they play, a front three of Ramirez, Negredo and Bamford would surely cause problems though.
However, the Ramirez to Leicester stories don’t seem to be going away. Bojan might be a good swap but it would surely be a huge blow to lose our best attacking player.
In a straight choice between Bojan or Ramirez its like comparing Merson with Tomlin.
Just to be clear Bojan isn’t Merson.
🔴 That was another ton up – Werdermouth
– – – – – -🚗- – – – – 100
Well what to make of the return of Bamford? He was Championship player of the season when he was last with us and has since gone on to prove… he was the Championship player of the season 2014-15.
He’s barely had a kick in the last 18 months so he’ll be rustier than a Sainsbury shopping trolley that’s been dumped in a canal to provide a home for sticklebacks that collects weeds and nectar points.
Though in his defence, I thought he was a very intelligent footballer with pace and had observed he always knew what he wanted to do with a ball before he received it. He may actually be what we need to speed up the tempo of our lumbering attack and may well be an astute signing if he gets a run in the team.
And that’s the big question, as Borophil has already posed, where will he play? I think Paul made the key point – Bamford didn’t take off at Boro until he was moved from the right to the centre. So will Paddy be competition for Negredo or another option instead of Stuani – perhaps he’s pencilled in to replace Downing when he’s eased out.
As for the fee – well I hope it’s been loaded towards achievements as he’s only managed a handful of starts since he left us – unless we’re flush with cash then 12m quid on two players who’ve struggled to get a game is what those in the game call a punt I believe.
I like Paddy he seems a nice decent lad but its hardly is a signing to resurrect our season or set pulses racing.
We seem to be buying no marks in a half hearted attempt to stay up, Bojan, Bamford, Gestede in whilst possibly losing Rhodes, Downing and Ramirez (not forgetting Nugent). In a straight choice between those two groups of three I know if I was back in the playground which group of three I would be picking for my side.
£6M for Gestede and arguably around the same initially again for Bamford is a concern when £12M could have bought someone a lot more “impacting” for £12 to £18M. Is Gestede an upgrade, absolutely not, does his signing make a difference to our goal drought, nope, completely irrational, illogical, overpriced and not to mention insensitive signing in any case.
Paddy at least has an emotional attachment but £5M or £6M does seem ridiculous in light of the fact that there were no other takers let alone the touted “up to” £10M. Our transfer “activity” just seems to be replacing like for worse. Sorry but that is how I see it. Have I whined on before about Orta and Gill and co.? That would be a massive yes!
Glad to see that they haven’t let me down and made me look stupid, thank God I have managed to save face while watching Boro toil and struggle because of their ineptitude or money for old rope as we call round here. Now that the point is becoming well and truly proven will someone please take the shovel off them.
Just as a footnote to Bojan, one of my best mates is a long suffering Stoke ST holder. I asked him about Bojan and he said Stoke fans were really excited about his arrival but he was somewhat of a disappointment and only ever showed glimpses of class but never really took a game by the scruff of the neck or made things happen.
Overall OK but not the star attraction they were expecting. Then came his injury and he has never been the same again which is why Hughes doesn’t give him a sniff. Sounds just the right sort of player we need right now in a relegation scrap.
Anyone have Fabbrini’s mobile number?
Forget Bojan. It has to be Snodgrass for me. Still puzzled over the Gestede and Bamford signings. As RR says, are they an upgrade on what we have already? Are we hedging our bets trying to ensure we have capable Championship Strikers if the worst should happen?
Looking forward to collecting the first of the essential wins on Saturday.
What are Hartlepool thinking,they are going Darlo and York way, Firing managers every five minutes, Higgy saved them last season, he lost his best player to a bad injury,now his goalie is out,he’s tried to transform the playing side but unlike other seasons the loan system changed so he was handcuffed, I’m not a pools fan per say but this is annoying.
Whilst we all gaze at our Boro navels we don’t know what is happening elsewhere,
Snodgrass would be my choice but who knows what conversations have already taken place nor what is taking place at the moment.
It may not be Gestede and Bamford instead of Snodgrass or Deulafou however it is spelt. Bojan may or not come but the business we do will only be complete 31st jan.
Before then there are short term aims such as points.
Maybe I’ll go down to the local Rec and see who is kicking a ball about. With Boro splashing the cash on very average footballers maybe I can find one (a defender of course) at the Rec and flog him to AK for a few million. Gestede and Bamford – £12 million – whatever next – the return of Lukas Jutkiewicz for another £6 million?
Has Steve Gibson left the building ?
We are becoming an episode of Fawlty Towers….diabolical waste of money when we have players who have not been given a chance,
Michael
I think quite a few of us would be disappointed to see Rhodes leave in this transfer window. Whilst we know he can score goals in the championship, his Premier quality is unproven. One thing that we do not see is what he is like on the training ground playing to a Boro system. This system and style has to be honest gained promotion and a steady if not spectacular record to date. Yes we don’t score goals but a lone striker the way we play, like a lot of teams in the Premiership is not really his style. If by selling him we can add some midfield guile and wide players up front then our existing strikers will score. Add to that some goals from midfield and things start looking better. Bamford can play to the system even if it is wide right and AK likes to swap his team around to suit what opposition we play. Yes it’s frustrating at times but we can only play a waiting game and see what develops
I think £6m + the add ons sounds good business to me. I posted previously I thought Paddy would be a good signing in this window but not on a loan. So, that’s what’s come to pass so I have to say I am pleased.
Others have already pointed out that he is the one striker that had been effective under AK. He suits AK’s style. Not surprising Chelsea wanted to keep him on their books while Mourinho was in charge. So, also not necessarily surprising the current boss was happy to let him go, and also that none of the other loan periods be had proved successful. I think this will be a win-win for player and club.
I am looking forward to seeing his pace, his foresight, his directness and his goals.
Well SG isn’t on the old blog, just checked behind the furniture and there is no one there, last visitor was Jarkko on 14th Jan. No sign of GHW, hope he is ok, many of us are getting on in life.
Just remember as I posted a short while ago there are important games before the window closes, we have to find a way to trouble the scorers before we have reinforcements, AK tends not to rush new players in.
Somebody asked whether we have ‘money to burn’ talking about 12 million for Gestede and Bamford. Given the size of the TV deals, I would say ‘yes’ when it comes to this kind of cost. These are strong squad players who may fight their way into the team or, alternatively, may just be a strong 25 minute change-up option as substitutes.
Redcar Red, as ever, sums it up best. We have a high level defence and defensive midfield structure that shows AKs skill as a technical coach. If we can graft genuine class onto that we could see a disproportionate increase in goal scoring and results. In any case, survival this year is the aim and then we get another slug of money for the next step in the plan. Anything else is unrealistic.
UTB
It’s going to be a hard one to contemplate if the rumours of Gaston leaving for Leicester are true – He’s really been the only player who has been able to link our midfield and attack together – plus he’s our best striker of a dead ball – so the prospect of going back to Leadbitter corners is looming large.
But if the incoming Gestede is worth £6m then why is a 26-year-old Gaston only worth £10m – doesn’t sound like we’re on the right side of the market on both of those deals.
Perhaps the lure of Champions League football may be a decisive factor for him – but it will only be a game or two max before Leicester are out and are unlikely to qualify ever again – odd move really unless he’s unhappy at Boro.
Werdermouth
unfortunately these rumours about Gaston seem to be increasing in intensity. Also talk about bust up between him and AK and that he is training with the U21 players. Its that time of the year when agents seek to earn their fees by generating income and seeking new clubs or negotiating increased fees. You are correct in saying the thought of playing european football is an attraction to him (so it has been said) I too would miss him and would not like to see him leave. But as we all know no one player (or manager) is bigger than the club and we have seen them come and go over the years. Strong rumours today about Delefou and Bajan so we can perhaps fill the void. Ecxiting times but also frustrating roll on February when it can all settle down again
Werder
A few of us had a long chat before the match about the Gaston to Leicester rumour. The balance was between playing in the Champions League, as you say for a match or two, against the fact we have Leo, Stuani and de Pena plus quite a few Spanish speakers at the club – English will be the language during training but they will mix outside the club.
To me it doesn’t stack up but an injury during a transfer window makes you smile.
One of the rumours on Newsnow is that we are looking to bring in Andros Townsend as a replacement for him, different style of player and one that would be an improvement in addition to Gaston.
It is all gossip and we don’t know what is actually happening, we can postulate all we like.
Many moons ago I had a hunch Adam Johnson would leave in the January, no investigative journalism or piecing together snippets of information or inside knowledge. All the logic said he would leave in the summer with his contract running down. Vic gave a very good and detailed argument about why he wouldn’t leave.
Lo and behold he moved to Citeh! I take no credit because it was no brilliant analysis, it was a hunch.
That is the problem with the transfer window, we don’t know what is going on. We come up with our wish lists and wonder why the club hasn’t bought them.
The answer other clubs are involved, players have a different view of clubs to the supporters. Players such as Costa, Suarez, Sanchez and the likes of Gaston have left South America to play in Europe, they have no qualms about swapping clubs and countries. European players regularly move countries. It is British players who tend to stay at home.
AK was adamant Gaston would not be leaving and we are led to believe there is no release clause in his contract. We will see.
The Gaston thing does seem a bit odd as he is worshipped by the fans here and AK resurrected his career. The £6M for Gestede and £10M rumoured now for Gaston does seem a bit bizarre in terms of VFM.
Perhaps AK has laid into his strike force upsetting a few with their view of what they have to work with being on a different level of comprehension to AK’s opinion. Ramirez does seem very capable of getting himself into bother on the pitch over the pettiest of things so it wouldn’t be beyond the realms of fantasy to think that he and AK may have fallen out over tactics.
This morning sees Andros Townsend being now linked with us for £13M. Townsend has experience at this level and is capable of a wonder strike to turn games around or nick something which is the more the likelier with Boro. My reservation along with all his previous managers is that he doesn’t do it often enough and therefore has become a bit of a luxury.
If we are looking at Andros Townsend that would suit me a very good player who would fit in. But hey what do I know of the inner workings of a manager’s mind? As I said before- roll on February
Wingers if that is what you call them these days are inconsistent at best. Bajan and Townsend are just that….not what we need right now.
Looks like Emilio Ensue is off to Birmingham as well wonder what we can do about De Pena?/
Disappointed about Nsue but then again not surprised. To me Fabio looks an immensely better fit than Barragan in our system and based on that I would have thought Nsue was a more than able like for like replacement.
It probably tells us that when when fit we can enjoy Barragan’s pace and electric runs down the flank once more over Fabio.
And how about Downing? He was said to leaving Boro as soon as the window opened. On Saturday AK said he hasn’t heard anything from the player.
And now Big Sam says he has not enquired. He said at Gazette: “But I don’t know whether he would want to leave his home town Middlesbrough because he took that move so he could go back to his old roots which is where he wants to spend the rest of his life.”
There is more gossip than ever before. I don’t personally believe all I see in the internet. So I would not be surpriced if Stewie and Rhodes would be here come February.
Though I must admit, that where we do fit Bamford, Rhodes, Gestede and Negredo. But this is team game and AK played TWO strikers last time around.
It will be interesting to see the final 25 player list on February 1st. (Traore is young enough, not to be included, right?)
Up the Boro?
Pedro
The problem is that generally flair players drift in to and out of games, they are inconsistent, that is what makes them exciting and unpredictable. We do not have £50m to buy a consistent flair player.
Traore is at the very inconsistent end but he is still young. SrAlex used to go mad a Giggs for his lack of end product.
These players try things and they don’t always come off, that makes them a risk as they end up without a ball and the opposition disappearing over the horizon.
We are in danger of berating AK for being cautious then berating him for bringing attacking players in.
We have seen the list of attacking players brought in by AK to improve the front end and criticising him for them not succeeding. Show me the corresponding list of attacking players that have left and succeeded in the top flight. I will hold my breath and count 1, 2. 3…. 79…….876. Phew gone purple!
I repeat, that is the area we have been able to shop. Defenders can come in and do a job for you and become better at it. Look how Ayala and Friend have progressed and even Chambers for that matter.
Graft me Deli Ali, Kane and Ericson on to our squad and we would be challenging for Europe.
So if we want flair but cant afford the consistent ones what do we do? Easier not to get them then blame AK?
Ian
Maybe I have misread or misunderstood your post so apologies in advance but surely the fact that out of our list of Attackers/Strikers none setting the heather alight elsewhere is perhaps the problem?
The self same however can be said of our defenders, whilst accepting we do not have a defensive problem how many of our defenders have gone on and played at the top flight, assuming of course that we are not going as far back as Pallister? The same as our Attackers, I’d make that none of late.
Our defenders were all bought/loaned from the bargain bin, slightly dented tins and unreadable sell by dates. In comparison the Strikers were many times more expensive than their defensive colleagues. We can’t use an excuse for one set of players but then not apply the same rules for another set surely?
Fabio and/or Barragan did not cost the earth. Friend, Ayala, Gibson and Grant were acquired for peanuts, Chambers is a loan and granted he did cost a few bob originally but didn’t Negredo also cost a few bob originally and is also a loanee? The only one that cost serious money was de Roon who considering his goals return is probably stuck between the two but I would classify him as more defensive. Clayts was part of the Butterfield swap plus cash and again was hardly big money.
Ramirez like Chambers once cost a fair amount, Rhodes isn’t exactly cheap nor Traore depending upon what “undisclosed” price we believe. Now by Premiership standards they didn’t cost a King’s ransom but nor did our defenders and if we add up what we spent on defenders and what has been spent on attack minded players and then look at the return on investment by whatever measure we choose there is a disconnect and a definite problem with us buying attacking players.
Why is that? Why can defenders be bought on the cheap, come in and do a decent job yet none of our attackers can, especially when we have spent many millions more on the attack side?
Using the Spurs example above, Dele Alli cost £5M from MK Dons and is 20 years old, Harry Kane aged 23 came through the Spurs Academy (after being released by both Arsenal and Watford Academies) and cost nothing. Eriksen again aged 23 cost £11M from Ajax. I would be delighted to have those three at Boro right now but all three of their total costs came to £16M.
Meanwhile we have Orta and Gill supposedly doing a brilliant job scouring and scouting yet we have just spent £6M on 28 year old Gestede, a Championship plodder with zero Premiership pedigree. An alleged £6M plus now on Bamford, then through in the costs of Fischer at around £4M, Traore at whatever (£5-7M?) then Downing, Rhodes and rumoured costs of £8M to £11M speculated about Bojan. Townsend in this morning at a rumoured £13M. And I won’t even mention the de Pena money.
Something isn’t working at the club. Some of it is tactical and that blame lays squarely at AK’s door but its not all his fault. Our attacking recruitment is woeful and money for old rope.
“through in” should read “throw in”, bleeding spell checker.
RR
Strange bit of logic, if we cannot get hold of any decent attackers(true), then the fact that we have got some brilliant defenders(worth money) should be a credit to the manager. Your list of defenders (plus cost) was revealing, something is going well in the football department and we should be wary of disturbing the defence to strengthen the (non existing) attack. That way lies madness.
I agree about not disturbing the defence, its probably Champions League standard let alone Premiership. And credit goes to AK for that (plus a mention to Mogga who was responsible for many) solidity.
That said the attack is so bad it may drag the team back to the Championship and that would be real madness not to mention financial disaster. Whilst I am delighted to give AK the plaudits for the defence the attack is spectacularly the opposite and undermines all the good work done at the back.
It would be interesting to see us consistently play with two strikers playing in the style that Philips and Quinn(?) did at Sunderland. Perhaps that is part of the plan having got the defence solid. Who were the wingers at Sunderland in those days? Maybe we’ll have to play with fifteen men.
If we have a surplus in certain areas maybe in AK’s eye surplus = options.
Just a thought like.
UTB,
John
PS. Saw the extended high lights of the Watford match yesterday. I think we were really lucky to a point from there. They had so much more dangerous oppotunities. I am much more happy with a point now than after listening to a radio commentary live.
Up the Boro. The Boro is staying up.
Jarkko
the match was a great disappointment to Watford, they needed those three points like a drowning man needs water, worse, they always beat us by muscle. Deeny and co. hoist the ball forward and then run into as many players as possible, it works on most occasions, with us.
Their next three matches are against the three best teams in the league, two away and one at home. We can be confident that they will get null points from that lot. It is possible that their icon Deeny has passed peak running into people, in which case, watch this space.
There is hope yet for some, the Bamford deal hasn’t been finalised.
Gives me a chance to get the boots out of the loft, make sure the cork studs are in good nick, dubbin the toe caps then set off to Rockcliffe to try and get a contract.
We need a wide man and one thing I do well is width, the opposing players are shattered by the time they have run around me. I was upset on Saturday when Statler said I was a lot of space to be a waste of.
Ianio Gillio a wide played plucked from obscurity for £6M.
I can see the Gazette back page now!
RR – no chance. It must be two pages in the middles. Ianio has width! UTB!
From Unathletico Derby
I have heard that ManU already have an intercept arranged at the Moto Services on the A1 at Wetherby
I blame Keith Lamb.
I blame Charlie Amer
Or Malcolm Allison
Or was it something to do with that tripe supper…
Here’s a review on Bamford which is worth looking at
https://smithytheborofan.wordpress.com/
Raich Carter
Some have asked who has left Boro and gone on to better things ? Well Bamford certainly has gone backwards at an alarming rate yet some are celebrating his return like he is the messiah.
We seem to be chasing a lot of players who are either out of form or sitting on the bench gathering splinters and paying over the odds. Yet when we sell someone the price always seems a giveaway compared to what we pay.
If the rumours of Gaston being the latest on the karanka naughty step and training with the under 21s then what must the seasoned pro’s think never mind the young kids who know unless they are Spanish then their futures lie elsewhere. As I have said before you cannot put a price on a kid who comes through the system, all he wants is to play for his home town and to make his friends and family proud.
To me I am disturbed we are panic buying so many players in January when we bought so many new players in the summer. Karanka has not got a good record of integrating new players quickly, hell some players from last season are still waiting for a go !
But he knows better than us so I will look forward to the day we score 1 or 2 more goals than our opposition.
I blame Ianio Gillio for publicising his availability on this very same blog. He’d have been snapped up early in the summer transfer window if we’d have known he was available (especially at a cut price 6 million, although I presume that’s just wages!)
Oh and by the way this blog in my eyes has surpassed the previous incarnation those responsible should be mighty proud.
I say this because the previous blogmyster has not bothered to pay us a visit which I find very disappointing, could have always used a non de plume if he was afraid of his tyrannical bosses.
How many have shunned the gazette to the detriment.of their advertisers
Serves em right….
Who’s to say AV hasn’t been on here with a nom de plume? Id like to imagine he’d come on here, shun all the positivity and slate AK to high heaven, then go back on the tripe supper and play his alter ego saying what a top manager AK is and how rosy in the garden everything is!!
There have been a few new names on here so who knows?
For obvious employment reasons he couldn’t reveal his i.d. (which is why most of us in gainful employment are under pseudonyms). The main thing being think of the fun of being able to say what you truly want to and not be thinking that’s tomorrow’s big scoop just scuppered!
Conversely he may prefer to keep out of it and just dip in to read to get a pressure test without influencing.
As far as fee goes you will need to speak to Statler, the figures quoted are not my responsibilily.
If the deal goes through my job will be to go to Rockcliffe every day, run about a bit. I may have to get changed on match day and sit on the bench on the odd occasion, have a trot along the touchline then sit down. I will look away on 88 minutes in case I am asked to actually play.
Hopefully I will mostly be sat in the stands where my limited ability will grow and not being in the squad will be the main reason we are not winning.
I will be able to manage on the wages. I hope to sign this week so I don’t have to buy a ticket for Saturday
#youfatbarsteward UTB por favor
Gazette and NewsNow quote SkySports saying Chelsea have asked about the availability of Traore!!
Ian, it is now a main item on the transfer window on SSN, I would ask for £10m or straight swop for Bamford.
Come on BORO.
No mention of my pending move?
Ian….RR beat to a reply to your post, replying to mine. He says it all so much better than I could.
However we need to buy someone who can with a degree of certainty be consistent. Wingers generally are not. My choice even paying over the odds a bit, which you always do in January, would be Snodgrass. He is more like Gaston, probably more consistent and scores goals. !0mil is a big ask, but if we have to let Gaston go, ask for 15mil, they will pay it if they really want him,
The money being asked for Bojan and Townsend is too big a risk. AK and his scouts have not been overly successful in my opinion, certainly at the front end of things. May be it is the system?
Traore to Chelsea? The thick plottens. This is some crazy Transfer Window.
It seems clear that Gaston is on his way and I agree with Pedro that we should be asking £15m for him. We can then make a big push for Snodgrass who, even in our system, should bolster the front end. Would also need a replacement for Traore if we let him go.
Things are getting interesting. Stand by for the call Ian!
UTB
Pedro
I had missed Redcar’s post
The point I was making is that whoever has left have not suddenly become world beaters so it isn’t the way they were coached and have become better coached.
The cost of the Spurs players is a red herring, if they played for us we would be a far better team, that isnt coaching.
Recruitment is a different matter altogether.
Gaston Goin Goin Gone?
But where are the pertinent questions?
Mein Gott! What is it that is so wonderfully attractive abot AK that he disturbs & upsets the very key creative players that are essential for Boro to realise 3 points not 1 or 0.
Tomlin had tummy troubles, Uncle Albert did a great impression of De Gaul & said ‘Non!’ (Stick yer contract in the Premiership, I’m off, mate), Stewie can’t get a game to save his life, Traore rightly or wrongly only gets positive feedback when he’s headed inthe direction of his own goal, Reachy was found to be surplus to requirements, Jordan Rhodes- the less said the better, Nugent flogged off for a pittance, Nsue, at least back up for absent wingers, flogged off and thrre’s so many more….
It has to be said that this is now becoming just a touch weird. How many defenders have we lost. More like how many have we gained & then AK says we need a winger or two cause the ones we have are too SLOW! Someone is avin a right larf or someone is something of a disaster when it comes to attacking players.
More grist for Toya Wilcox’s key word extravaganza!!
All together now-
‘Its a mystorwy. It’s a mystorwy!’
U know only Pardew is better than AK!
If Traore is off to Chelsea can we continue with our current theme and ask for Chabolah back. His occasional pirouttes are just what we need to bring some creativity to those defensive midfield positions. Heck, let’s throw in Bog Ken too.
Who’s ‘Bog’ Ken? And why’s he called Bog – does he smell funny like?
Just askin
🙂
Big even! Although perhaps Bog Ken would help in making it difficult for opposition attackers to wade through our defence!
Spartak calls out to his Mrs in the kitchen…
‘More popcorn, Pet! This show’s getting longer by the minute.’
UTB
(throws hands in the air)
So what? It works. Always has.
Lighten up and go with it. You may well find that your fears are unfounded. They tend to be. AKBoro have repeatedly proved so.
‘So what it works always has!’
Simon are you sniffin white powder up yer nosey? Have you been sittin on yer own in a darkened room for too long?
What the hell is IT? And how long has IT bin workin?
Coz IT isn’t winning games this season, is it? And IT certainly isn’t shots on target in profusity, is it?
And in your fantasy word of AKBORO, what exactly is proving sooo great that lowest goals scored in the league is so magnificent?
Come on Simon, either your gettin a big wadge off the Gazette or yer avin a larf!
Only in 2017 could anyone believe what is going on down.
Spartak
You have not been taking your happy pills have you ?
Remember the dark days of Strachan have you forgotten the shambles of matches like Barnsley away under Mogga? The pitiful performances when we had the England Managers at our helm current and ex.
When they were Boro managers we supported them and that is exactly what we should do now. I’m not saying we accept everything as being the great and the good but hey let’s sit on the roller coaster we bought a ticket and let’s see where the ride takes us
OFB
I have a great deal of respect for your good self, still try this:
One French Napoleonic soldier said to his mate as they marched on Moscow
‘ Yes, Pascal, I know it seems like madness but just keep walking and let’s see how it turns out like!’
And there’s more!!!!
PM Mayday says regardin the EU single market
‘We are leavin that there cupcake. We shall not be touchin that there cupcake even if you paid us. Then again, we demand to eat as much of that cupcake as we can get our sticky little hands on, but remember we’re right off cupcakes!’
Meanwhile
AK says
‘We need fast paced wingers & we’re going to find some real fast!’
Spartak says
‘Thought we had one of the fastest wingers in the West?’
Steve Agnew says nowt (safer that way).
Folks have in mind that ‘professionals’ know what they’re doing.
WAKE UP, IDIOTS! THEY’RE MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG. THEY HAVEN’T GOT A CLUE!
Not so fast Spartak. Maybe Aitor has a cunning plan. Sell Ramirez and Traore and let Downing go out on loan. All creative talents would then be eliminated from the team and he could play a 5-5 system which might guarantee him more 0-0 draws.
Boroexile
It is only my small world of perceptive realistion but I have to admit that what I see, that which I read is nothing more than either total stupidity, negligence or madness.
And I dont know which one is worse.
But what’s even worse is the people who would claim I’m the one making it all up.
(sighs)
Each to their own Spartak. I understand your concern, I just don’t see the point in panicking. What will be will be, and as I illustrated in the past, AK has a history of bouncing back from supposed setbacks.
Simon
‘What will be will be!’
Sozz Simon, but that’s the most pathetic line of fatalism that anyone at anytime in the last 20 millenium could ever produce.
Captain of the Titanic says as said ship is heading toward huge iceberg
‘What will be will be!’
Good God, I sooo glad you’re a journo with no responsibilty for anything too important.
Madness continues to prevail!
There’s a song out there!
10 points to anyone who can name the group which what sang ‘Rip it up and start again!’
UTB Huuurrrrahhhh! Like
Gaston is a bit hit and miss and always close to a suspension, tends to disappear in games, he isn’t fit. Sell him to one of the teams we have played twice already at a huge profit. The only clubs Leicester have played twice are Boro and Chelsea, the Foxes are unlikely to be in the real dogfight but have still to play all the other teams near the bottom again this season.
Sell Traore to Chelsea at a huge profit then have him loaned back for the rest of the season, get him loaned back again next season then buy him back at a discount – Chelsea have previous in this.
Use the proceeds to bring in Bojan and Snodgrass.
Simples! Brilliant work by the club.
That was at a level beyond Gazette spin! There again………
By the way, still not heard about my move to the Riverside. Statler told them it would be a marquee signing, apparently they said more like Big Top. Wonder what they meant?
Looking at our current starting line up, compare it to this one on Feb 1,
352
Valdes
Chambers, Ayala,Gibson
Fabio, De Roon, Loftus /Cheeks, Bojan, Friend
Negrado,Bamford
Would you say that poses more of a threat going forward?
Only thing is LoftusCheeks and Bojan are not at times up for the defensive side of things,
Yes you would have a stronger bench,but you have to be carefull ,and balance it out.
Another thing anyone else a little peeved we are turning Chambers into one of the best young centre backs for another team.
Interesting times, if we stay up this summer could be a real eye opener
COB
What is all this about Gaston moving, there is nothing substantial anywhere about any other team making enquiries let alone a firm bid. The same as MFC moving for Snodgrass, Bojan or Deulofeu, all newspaper speculation to fill space. A lot of clubs will say they would be interested in Ronaldo and Messi but they will never make an enquiry, so why all the alarm and despondency about something that is not even in the pipeline, wait for the clubs to make some public announcement, then panic.
Come on BORO.
Exmil
Is it just Gaston? One minte he’s playin next minute he’s injured out for a month. What’s the injury? I honestly don’t know. Tomlin played, then he’s got a tummy priblem but he’s seen walking away from the ground at the time.
Smells like excuses to me.
Then, we have the mysterious unknown number of players wishing to leave – all happy campers at the bonny bouncin Boro and the grind goes on.
Brilliant window.
All the ingrained prejudices coming to the for, most entertaining, a real case of drop the dead donkey.
The Diasboro must be littered with chicken entrails or discarded runes, partners shaking their heads in disbelief, ‘it is only football!’
It is all speculation and spin with journos and agents trying to get a story or a big fat fee!
A few years ago, I had cause to do business with a football agent who did appear to have some morals. However, he did tell me about the time a paper came up with a story about one of his players which did not have a jot of truth in it. In fact it could have harmed the player. When said journo was questioned, the response was along the lines of ” I needed a story to fill some space and X talking to club Y seemed as good as any” Agent not best pleased.
The point I am making, badly, is that we will only know who goes or comes by 1 Feb and I don’t pay much attention until a deal is done.
All I ask is that we improve the squad although not much sign of that at present in my view.
UTB
Well it looks like this transfer window is unlike no other in January. Usually a dry month in ore ways than one and pretty boring with make weights or benchwarmers being shuffled or loaned we currently have Payet striking and not in the way the Hammers would want, Costa off to China (allegedly) and as for Boro well its certainly anything but boring.
There does appear to be some uncanny symmetry in Boro’s dealings. Villa want Rhodes and we “wanted” Gestede, We want Bamford and incredibly and much to everyone’s surprise Chelsea want Traore! Andros Townsend and Downing? Its not like Noel Edmonds to miss a TV show opportunity, scrap the Transfer window and bring back Swap Shop!
Looking at the above some valuations would be interesting. One internet publication has hinted at £20M for Adama (well why not), if we say though that around double our Summer fee is perhaps nearer the mark for the speed king and Bamford at around a reported £5M tonight on SSN that would make us around £9M up on the deal.
Gestede at £6M and Rhodes at £10M would leave us £4M up plus the £2M from Nugent and the likely hoped for £1M for Nsue means we would be £7M to the good (or a Snoddy perhaps). That £9M left over from Adama would put a serious dent in any offer for Jese, Delefeou or a whole Bojan making our January outlay relatively modest. Then of course there is Gaston’s reputed £13M plus of course Traore cannot play for 3 teams in a season so Chelsea would like as not loan him back.
Thats without even contemplating the Gibson to Chelsea for £30M rumour. Seems a very long way indeed from the Juke, Ledesma and Ogbeche days. Remember the arguments on Untypical about the Clayton/Butterfield deal that had both sets of fans arguing who had got the better of the deal which of course financially Huddersfield did especially considering Butterfield’s sell on fee. I guess we will just have to settle for the Premiership and let the Terriers bask in their glory with that one.
The Premiership is literally a completely different world. The Clubs gaining promotion get a £150M or £170M of monopoly money but their players suddenly double or even triple in value. As for Boro well come the end of this window our front line and bench could have a completely new look, well apart from Negredo that is.
RR – the front line will be the same! Agree totally, only difference is the ones that come on 2 minutes!
Latest Rumour Bloggers and Posters and Lurkers
http://sportwitness.co.uk/middlesbrough-ready-meet-psg-demands-forward-language-barrier-obstacle/
And more breaking news
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jan/17/everton-milan-gerard-deulofeu?CMP=share_btn_tw
And
BREAKING: Bojan currently in talks with Middlesbrough. The Spaniard looks set to leave Stoke for a fee around £12m. #MFC #Boro #SFC
As someone tweeted after the Bamford medical, I cannot see we will continue with 4-2-3-1 formation, too.
As AK has already tried at least three different formations, he must have some changes in mind. Or why buying so many strikers?
Ok, we might see some leaving, but all the departures are just gossip for far.
Anyway, interesting to see. As Exmil said, let’s forget speculations and concentrate on the players we have.
Do we have a match on Saturday? Up the Boro!
My bad English – read so far, not for far. Still learning like AK does 😛 UTB!
Redcar Red
When I was writing my mini spoof on Gazette spin I had a wry smile on my face until I got to the end. Then I thought, maybe it could happen and you have now articulated the same sort of ideas.
You just don’t know.
As for formations, 433 with Bamford, Negredo, Traore would work. Bojan, Negredo, Stuani.
If we play 352 then the middle three would have to include a more attacking player.
The West Ham way under Sam and play 4312, brill if Downing stays as the one behind Bamford and Negredo. Snodgrass, Gaston, Bojan could play that role.
It is all speculation until the dust has settled. It will make for an interesting final day of the window because there are seven matches on the evening of the 31st. We are home to West Brom, everyone will be on their phones checking for updates.
Deal sheets have to be in by 11pm
https://www.premierleague.com/news/60264
Hi Everyone – I’ve just posted up a new timely Talking Point article from Simon that he kindly got to me in the early hours. This week he looks at ‘Loyalty, Heroes and Sentiment in Football’ in relation to how transfers are perceived and judged. I’ve put it up with a new Talking Point graphic in our away colours so that it can be easily distinguished from last week’s offering.
https://diasboro.club/2017/01/18/transfer-window-perceptions/